Hello Saints LIVE Q&A on Doctrine
Вставка
- Опубліковано 20 жов 2024
- This is a special Q&A Hello Saints Livestream. Pastor Jeff will be responding to questions, specifically regarding a recent video where Pastor Jeff outlines core, mainstream Christian doctrines. What questions do you have?
Your approach to being a peace maker and bridge builder is so genuine and pure in intent, I would classify it as celestial.
Respect respect respect good brother in Christ.
@LTINFP R2J2 Open dialogue and respect is the only way we really learn. Thanks for the kind words.
Interesting live video. Reinforces my faith in the restored gospel. Less mysteries, more logical explanations. That's why I converted years ago. Thanks for this, Pastor Jeff. Enjoy your channel. Great job bridging Christian faiths. Excited to see your video on Alma. 😊
Same 🤍
@@jeremysmith9694 As a very active fellow Latter-Day Saint, may I respectfully admonish you to never, ever, ever refer to another Christian's belief as a "mess they believe." God's brightness and glory defy all description; therefore, we all are, to one extent or another, making a mess of things when we try to describe God in all his glory. Pastor Jeff is doing a great job, and his love for Jesus is obvious. That makes him my brother.
The serpent in the garden made things much simpler for Eve. The serpent's message to her was she'd be like God if she'd just go along what was attractive to her. I'm sure it made good, logical sense at the time.
@@dnzswithwombats the serpent didn't lie about becoming like God. In face l fact God says Adam has become like us (Gen 3:22)
@@briandavis6898 .. That is correct, Brian. The serpent's lie was that Eve would not die. As usual, the sly old serpent using truths and half truths to mask a lie. We know that because after they partook of the fruit...... they died of a very old age. :>)
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
You and everyone maybe wondering why I a Catholic is following this channel?
Long story short , i had a bad run in with a LDS. I let my anger get to me, and i began to let hate come into my heart and i started criticizing lds and being anti mormon. That lasted for a while.
I returned to God 2 years ago, and i was reading my Bible and came across Mark 12:30-31 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[a] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] There is no commandment greater than these.”
I was supposedly a "Christian" but was not following the commandments of Jesus. So i looked inwards and prayed and asked for forgiveness and i asked God to change my heart from hate to love.
I then started learning about the lds church last year and a few days after i began learning about the church I was scrolling on UA-cam and I stumbled across one of your first videos when you started your channel! It was like a coincidence, i have followed you since the beginning. You have definitely helped us understand LDS better.
I have learned so much, seriously so much stuff that i didnt know all thanks to you.
My journey didnt stop their as i attened an open house temple tour recently. I drove like 4 hours to attend and i like you was also star struck by the beauty of the temple. Its like it hits you harder when youre standing in front of it in person.
Ive been Catholic all of my life. I grew up in the church, and left at around age 16 , i became agnostic and then atheist. Then i dabbled into Eastern spirituality for a while but ultimately came back to God 2 years ago and i stepped foot back into the Catholic church last November after a 6 year absence.
I definitely love learning about other Christian churches , beliefs, etc. I really hate how divided Christianity is today between : Catholic, Orthodox, Protestants, LDS , etc.
Christ created one church and didnt want us to be so divided. But i do love all my brothers and sisters in Christ
I invited a coworker to Mass at my Catholic Church and he invited me to his baptist service one sunday. That was the first protestant service id attened in 15 years. I also plan on attending an LDS worship service soon.
Jeff, i really want to thank you for creating this channel. While i dont necessarily agree with you a Protestant on many things or an LDS on MANY things. I think having this channel to help dialogue respectfully, and learn about the Lds is truly a great work you've done. You've definitely helped us non lds learn about the lds church more and better.
Thank you Jeff
Christ is Risen!!!!!
❤✝️
@@jeremysmith9694 I searched and I found the Catholic church to be the one True Church that Jesus Christ founded!
@@jeremysmith9694 thank you
😊
@@FernandoLaliberte-v5m ❤️✝️
Pastor, you made me want to be a good LDS and a good Christian. God bless you and family
Leading Saints and Cwic are two of my favorite LDS podcasts to listen to.
Jeff you are now an LDS podcaster:)
Hello Saints, Cwic Media and the best David Alexander are my fave youtube channels these passed few months till now so far.
Addressing those 6 points:
#6 Christ’s reign on Earth - from the video that you did with Greg, pretty much everything on point for we agreed with. And I think this is why your channel is so important, Jeff, because in order for Christ to bring all things in one, we need to be having these conversations that bring us together as the body of Christ in answering them so that we can bring the world his truth, and also be humble enough to receive the additional truth that Christ will bring us when Christ returns.
Glad to hear you share Biblical truths Jeff , that’s what we all need to hear
Pastor, thank you for your clarity in the difference in LDS and Main Christian beliefs. There is a difference. Im greatful for your participation of talking about that. I never want to disrespect anyone beliefs but rather learn and talk about our beliefs. You done that very well. Thanks again for CLARITY
Thanks for your Q&A. I love your patience. We’re so used to EV’a teaching us what we believe when we ask what they believe.
Christ was baptized because it was a commandment. We are to follow Him and He lead by example
Addressing those 6 points:
#2 Nature of God ~~ The word “Elohim” means “the Forces”. It is viewed by us as a title and therefore even though there are three distinct persons, they are one God who function in Unity. If you learn Hebrew, this becomes obvious. Jesus being the “Bright and Morning Star” in Job who descended while the Father is on the throne also is evidence that the trinity lacks context. It doesn’t mean that evangelicals will be burning in hell though. GOD IS MERCIFUL. To assume he isn’t and doesn’t have a plan to correct honest misunderstandings is lacking in knowing the character of God. This is why we LDS Christians do not worry for our friends and family so much because we know God is the judge of all of us and He does judge righteous judgments.
My wife and I are members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and we have really appreciated watching your videos and interfaith dialogue, it’s interesting to see different points of view, I think sometimes we think and I admit I used to think the church had a monopoly on truth but the more I look at the history of god interacting with his children and having taken religion courses at BYU about other religions histories the more I believe god speaks to all his children and if we don’t dialogue like this we can miss those truths. Thanks Pastor Jeff
Pastor Jeff. Thank you for this channel. I may not agree with what you say but I am glad that you are here because you were at least trying to learn about things and not just from other evangelicals but also from lds themselves about lds still trying to promote unity and love
Pastor Jeff this is awesome! Thank you for your willingness to talk through complex questions with so much respect! I learned a lot from this video that I've been trying to understand about protestants for a long time. And I can see the protestant vantage point on certain things more clearly. Also you mentioned that there was a comment made about you being a condemning pastor. But if you want a different take, I shared my thoughts and story on your most recent video before this one.This channel is a blessing, and for me very healing. Thanks for doing this. The world needs this right now. Honoring conversations. It really does.
Dear Fellow Saints. If Pastor Jeff is willing to so graciously seek a sincere understanding of our beliefs, shouldn't we be equally gracious in our efforts to sincerely understand his beliefs? Anything less is not only unworthy of our callings as disciples of Jesus Christ to be peacemakers, it is also just poor form. (Jeff - thank you for your approach to interfaith dialogue. The gold standard!)
@@jeremysmith9694 Here's a challenge: invest as much time trying to sincerely understand Pastor Jeff's beliefs as Pastor Jeff is spending trying to understand our beliefs. When you have reached that point in time, my guess is that his beliefs will not come across as confusing at all. He is a remarkably good teacher.
@@anthonymagee5725 He has knowledge of the scriptures. He knows the Doctrines.
I am doing just that some friends, family members, and pastors will definitely be against it But I have been invited to over 25 churches over 20 years ago so I was nearly 11 years old... I read the holy bible twice for my age and was wise with my faith. At the same age, I tackle my solo satanic mission which led to my first spiritual death. Many denominations. I was just a kid meek and innocent to the world, but through to the lion's den to see evil things. I had all resources from LDS, Pentecostal, and Roman Catholic. Those churches told me everything. Profound prayers, hanging of world of gospel, exorcism, etc. I enter into the non-denominational church by myself trying to save 24 possessed individuals, I consumed so much pain, suffering, and darkness but lost my faith in God. I remember dying and I recalled a priest from LDS crying at my lifeless body. 3 minutes then I was brought by tears on the earth, God, Jesus, and heaven. I wished I wasn't alone on this mission. I saved 12 out of 24 people with God's power. God was more surprised because I was 11 and he thought I could only save 1 person. That mission broke me. I was always a peacemaker. I love everyone regardless for the kind of faith we carry on our sleeve of our hearts
@@jeremysmith9694 understanding what people believe and where they are coming from does not mean you have to follow them.
This channel is getting old with the whole “understanding” other people’s beliefs. How long can he be basically saying the same thing in every video?
Also, Jeff, thanks for the shout out and the … look 😂 I appreciate you answering me honestly. I disagree with your take but truly appreciate your answer. Please know I pray for you and your family often. 💟🙏 21:05
What distinctions do you draw between "person" and "being"? Do the "persons" have their own individual mind, consciousness, will, agency etc., even though they may be perfectly aligned?
Thank you for this video. It is interesting to understand the perspective of an Evangelical Christian. I admire the devotion and sincerity of Christians in all denominations.
I think it is important to understand that from an LDS perspective that Joseph Smith was not a trained or educated theologian in the mold of Martin Luther or John Calvin. He is a prophet in the mold of Jeremiah or Ezekiel. The doctrinal truths that we hold to were not worked out by people with theological degrees and through argument, they were received by revelation like Moses. The revelation of God relativizes our understanding of the Bible.
Think about Paul, he was a well trained pharisaic Jew who knew the scriptures better than any Christian. But his knowledge of Torah caused him to fight against the Church. After he received the revelation of Jesus Christ and his eyes were opened, he had to go back and reread the scriptures. As he did so, he saw Christ in the law and the prophets.
For LDS it is not necessarily a matter of arguing the meaning of Biblical scripture using human wisdom. We see that doing this creates disagreement and discord. For us it is a question of - is Joseph Smith a prophet? Jesus said that by their fruits ye shall know them. The fruit is the Book of Mormon and the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS. To know the truth, God has said that if we humble ourselves, read and pray with sincerity and real intent He will reveal the truth to us through the Holy Spirit.
The rest of Christianity does not believe in Joseph Smith
Also , one of the reasons why many don't embrace the book of Mormon or the LDS church is because theirs no proof of any evidence of the book of Mormon. It's a really hard thing to believe that Joseph Smith got revelation, translated golden plates from reformed Egyptian (something no linguist has ever come and said was a real language) and he was only ever able to see his with his spiritual eyes.
On top of that, it all comes down to do you feel the "holy spirit" tell you the truth. The heart can be very deceitful, I believe if you rely on your feelings then you will be dictating what you believe is right and that's what I believe when the LDS tell me that they feel or know the holy spirit told them the book of Mormon was true that's when I hit the brakes bc I feel like it's just you telling yourself what you wanna believe if that makes sense?
Sorry do not mean to come off rude or mean or criticizing. Just thought I'd offer a different prospective
@@jeremysmith9694 do you have any links to prove this? So far the 3 witnesses were only able to touch the "plates" but they were covered and that most of them were only able to see them with their "spiritual eyes" also how joseph returned the "plates" and no one was ever able to see them is pretty unconvincing that the whole story is true...
I believe that this video's purpose was meant to be a way to help all of us, regardless of which church or denomination, to respect each other. If that is true, we do not need to talk about doctrinal differences as a debate, but so that we can all understand each other. We all want to emulate the principles taught by Jesus Christ where we all can be one as Christ commanded. Can we not all just be friends, and come together with love, and service, and prayer, and desires to please God and help each other? Debating doctrines accomplishes nothing. Agreeing how to live under the teachings of Jesus Christ is what really matters to have some unity between us in simply doing what Christ commanded and admonished. Who, anyway, can judge who is saved and who is not? Only Jesus Christ can judge and only He has the authority to judge. So, let's simply respect each other for how we each want to follow Jesus Christ as He taught.
"We all want to emulate the principles taught by Jesus Christ where we all can be one as Christ commanded"
Hi Walter. Respectively, I think mainstream Christianity and LDS Christianity is as one as it's going to get.
Daniel 2
28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar *what shall be in the latter days* . Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these; ........
...... 41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but *they shall not cleave one to another* even as iron is not mixed with clay.
In the same light..... Luke 9
49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
I think that your comment should be pointed mainly to those in mainstream Christianity. That's where we find "followers of Christ" telling us that we're wrong and we're going to hell. It happens all the time. Do members of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints have misconceptions and misunderstandings of others who are followers of Christ? Absolutely. But I don't believe we go around judging others as much. People like those who stand in front of our conference twice a year with protest signs screaming at the top of their lungs. Southern Baptists who make it their goal to try to convert us away from what they believe is a cult.
Understanding each other doesn’t mean we’re one with each other. If I’m not mistaken, Christ wants us to be One!!!
@@anthonymagee5725 Sorry, what are you trying to say?
@@joncharlotteschoen I wouldn't say the current LDS are in a cult but the beginning does have some cultish stuff happening...
Love love loved this! Thx for doing it! I love learning about what mainstream Christianity believes, as much as I love watching your reactions/watching you learn about Latter-day Saint views!
We just all humble enough to accept all truths from each other, to prepare ourselves for the second coming of the Lord God, Jesus Christ, bring all truths and see what Jesus Christ and His Church will add unto your life, that is the purpose of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, continue restoration of His Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints, One Lord,one Faith and one Baptism ,Only two Church, The Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the Beast,
There is no difference I completely accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior
There are differences among Christian doctrines and different Churches let alone the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It starts out with names. Then when it started by whom and who authorized him. And that's the differences.
@@FOTOFOTA I am happy to clarify you can pm me if you like There is no difference in who we see Jesus Christ is The son of God and our Lord and saviour It is only through Him we can be saved. I go to him for forgiveness of my Sins and rely on Him in times of need He died for me and I would die defending His name It hurts me deeply when someone questions my belief in Him and who He is
I am LDS. I watched this twice. The second time I took notes. We have a lot of agreement on your 6 points. I will list them.
1. Bible is inspired from God. We do use the Bible to understand God's will. We agree prophecy is subject to the Bible. (Issue is the interpretation of the Bible. Need to get interpretation from God). Disagree on Nicene creed. It was created under duress.
2. We agree with all of your description here except for "otherly" and triune. We believe in 3 separate distinct personages that are one in purpose. All 100% God.
3. We believe we are literally in the image of God. Not just His attributes. Agree on authority and dominion. Agree we need saving. Adam & Eve: eating the fruit made them mortal. Gave them knowledge of good and evil. God knew it would happen. Was always God's plan to have Jesus as Savior. He knew men would sin and it would be needed. We can't save ourselves.
4. Agreed with all of this one up until you said Jesus was triune. We agree He is 100% God. I would like to point out that Jesus is referred to as the "firstborn" in the New Testament four times: Colossians 1:15 & 18; Hebrews 12:23; Romans 8:29. It says in Acts 17:29 that we are all the offspring of God.
5. Guess we do have some differences here. We believe that the church that Jesus Christ is the head of and guides on a daily basis is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. We believe we have the Authority of God to perform the neccesary ordinances such as Baptism and the Sacrament. We believe we have the fulness of the truth. That being said we believe that all followers of Christ are Christians and are our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. Do need to repent of sin. Only can be saved by Jesus. We don't tell people whether they are Christian or not. Only God knows their hearts and He will judge. I do believe that what is most important is accepting Jesus, following Him, loving Him and believing in Him. If we are doing that and helping others as He would do if He were here then He won't hold it against us if we have His physical nature wrong. He will lovingly teach us the truth after we die. (Whichever side is mistaken). Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. Baptism is a commandment and He obeyed all the commandments perfectly.
6. Agree on all of this one.
Yes, Adam & Eve were commanded to be fruitful and multiply in the garden. No evidence that they knew how to do that. They didn't even know that they were naked! It seems unlikely that they knew how to procreate when they didn't know they were naked.
Simply curious how you conclude the Nicene Creed was created 'under duress'. The overwhelming majority of the Council of Nicaea held the belief now espoused in the creed. The council was held to denounce Arius' ideas as heretical (the idea that Jesus was never eternal, but the first and greatest of all of God's creations).
I would argue this heresy comes dangerously close to the belief the LDS holds today about the pre-existence and the presentation of the plan of salvation. Jesus, being our "oldest" brother and a spirit child of the Father would not have been eternal either. In order to be the literal Son, you would had to have come from the Father in some capacity (just as you and I came from our parents).
@@BrendonKing I should have answered sooner. My husband researched the Council of Nicea decades ago and he told me about it. He said Constantine got a group of about 100 religious leaders together and told them "come up with something you can all agree on or I'll kill you." After you asked me about it I asked my husband how he found that out. He said he didn't remember what book that was in because he found it 30 years ago. He said I could research it myself. I don't know where he found it either. I will say I have NOT heard it in church. We don't talk about the creeds. There were other people making similar comments on this post. Maybe one of them remembers where they learned the information.
The best source of information is always God. Pray and ask God what the truth is. I have.
Oh, the other things you mentioned: the pre-existance is mentioned in the Bible several times. I can tell you where if you'd like. Jesus is also referred to in the Bible as the firstborn several times but I think I already said that in my previous post. Biblical truths are not blasphemy.
@@jjjjhoward So second-hand knowledge from your husband from a non-descript book 30 years ago...
I would kindly and respectfully ask that before making authoritative claims on chuch historical events you research the event and become familiar with it. I can provide you with plenty of resources if you are interested in learning about the ecumenical councils and what their purposes were.
Essentially, you could look at the council of Nicaea as a big disciplinary council to put to rest some very inaccurate understandings about the nature of God in 325 AD.
@@BrendonKing It is a shame that my husband was too busy and wouldn't give me a better answer than that when I asked him a couple of days ago. However I do have a better answer for why I haven't researched the creeds myself.
You may have heard of Joseph Smith's first vision? Joseph was praying to know which church to join. He had read James 1:5
"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."
Joseph expected to receive an answer but he wasn't expecting God and Jesus to visit him. But they did! I know they did I have prayed about this and I know it to be true! I bring this up because Joseph was also told about the creeds in this vision. I'm going to quote part of it here. This is from Joseph Smith history:
"I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other-This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)-and which I should join.
I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
I know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. I know that the true Church of Jesus Christ is again upon the earth. I know the creeds are false but they are followed by many well meaning Christians who love Jesus. My husband knows these things too, but he loves looking up historical things. He particularly loves Greek and Roman things. But anyway I digress. Prophets of God have restored the truth upon the earth and that is good enough for me.
So far as what you said that this is something they already knew, do you remember how much error was already creeping into the Church even before the Apostles died? They were fighting against this in the epistles they wrote. 300 years is a long time for error to creep in and for some truths to be lost. Truth comes from God always. Not groups of men even if they are well intentioned.
@@BrendonKing I asked my husband again when he was less busy. He says his Latin teacher in high school told him about it. She was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school. (Obviously she can read Latin or she wouldn't be teaching it.) My husband says they studied it in Latin class. Constantine set the whole thing up after getting a vision of a flaming cross in the sky and told "in this sign you shall conquer." There wasn't a unified Christian church. They all disagreed. He gathered 100 priests and locked them all in a room. Told them you have 100 days to come up with something you can all agree on or I'll kill you and make my own priests. Also they had a hodgepodge of letters. Constantine had them pull all the records together. My husband says this is all historical record. He says he doesn't have the sources. He says to look up the history of Constantine and the early formation of the Catholic Church and the formation of the Nicene Creed.
Thank you, you answered a lot of my questions about your faith. Good stream!
I think non-LDS get very hung up on the LDS article of faith that we believe the Bible to be the word of God (so long as it is translated correctly).
The key point is that we believe the Bible to be the word of God. We study it (this whole year Sunday school / Come Follow Me home study, etc is studying the New Testament; last year was the Old Testament); we teach from it; we fully embrace it. The caveat about so long as it is translated correctly simply alludes to the fallibility of men. Even in English I can say something that can be interpreted out of context and the meaning is totally lost. There are some words or phrases in certain languages that don’t even have a simple word for word translation, but the idea has to be explained in the new language, and sometimes that can get lost. But yeah, as far as it is interpreted correctly would be a whole other can of worms. Even “mainstream” Christians, as Jeff says, disagree on many things taught in the Bible - but because those things aren’t core beliefs, it doesn’t matter.
It’s such a relief to not only have other scripture but living prophets to help us better understand God’s word - and to see clearly that He is not dead, that He still speaks to His children and wants to covenant with them now as he did in ancient times, and that He truly is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
I think we (LDS) sometimes get more hung up on using that phrase than we should when we are talking with people from other faiths. In reality, they may be surprised that we teach from the Bible often and very rarely, if ever, do you hear us together talk about things in it not being correct…I can’t think of a time I’ve been told a verse in the Bible isn’t true. I guess I’ve heard that the songs of Solomon weren’t all inspired writings. The JST clarifies a lot - like in the ten virgins I don’t know you being changed to you don’t know me.
Do the past prophets matter? Or just living?
@@Mmmmmk247 living.
@@mikelray3965 then why do you follow anything in the BOM or taught by Joseph smith
@@Mmmmmk247 why not? There's good to be taken from the past but the present is where we are.
Interesting to hear you comment about the accounts of baptism of Christ as supporting the Trinity (3 persons), as I feel that account supports the Godhead (3 beings)
I love the explanation of the Kingdom aspects of Christs ministry as elaborated by NT Wright.
Yes!
9:00 JEFF!!! I missed the live stream, buddy, but I think I'd prefer to be rested for work than hanging out on UA-cam. Lol!
I haven't finished this video, but the question I had for you was: What's the reaction of your local congregation, or your church at large, to your work with Help Saints? Is it something you discuss often with your congregants? How do your larger bosses (whoever is above you in the church) feel about your work here?
Good to see you again, brother. Much love!
You should make a “Hello Catholics” channel next :)
Oh that'd be interesting
I would love to see that!
Yes, leave LDS alone
@@lizeta8404 why?
I would love that!
Would have been good to have had Greg M back on to help keep things balanced. I like the direction your and Greg’s discussion was taking last time, but this live session seemed to give Pastor Jeff some extra time to present his views. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it’s always nice to have opportunities for more balanced discussions.
I actually loved him having the stage to himself! He spend so much time talking about the Latter-day Saints and our doctrine, it’s fun to hear about him. I like learning about what other people believe
Pastor Jeff - thank you for sharing your thoughts and understanding of your core doctrinal beliefs. If I could add something for you to consider regarding your belief that the Bible contains all that you need from God. As I gathered in your podcast you believe that the evidence for the various translations is nearly 100% accurate and that because of that you need no more doctrinal understanding of what is being taught. My question to you regarding that is how does this make your understanding different from the Pharisees? They understood the Torah very well. They also understood the cultural idiosyncrasies associated with those teachings because they were living in the culture. As Americans and as Christians living many centuries later in a totally separate culture with all the advantages of modern society I think we place ourselves above the status of “becoming as a little child” when it comes to learning - especially when it pertains to religion.
If we were good friends and I had a mutual friend hand you a note that said, “The meeting is at 5:30.” I would assume you’d understand the “where”, the “why”, the “what” and the “who” because we mutually understood the context of the note. However a person unaffiliated with a reason to be at the meeting would either have no clue or they could interpret it totally out of context and assume we were meeting to plan some nefarious deed. While my example is a simple one it’s one that many who accept only the Bible as the authoritative Word seem to miss.
As a child I loved to build treehouses. I quickly discovered that a single nail placed in a board on the face of the tree to be used as a step would allow the board to rotate in any direction that weight was placed on it. By adding a second nail however fixed the board and enabled its use as a viable step. In the same way the Holy Bible is a single nail in the climb up to eternal life. It’s a step upward but a very unstable one. When you add a second nail (The Book of Mormon) then it becomes a more usable step in the climb. Adding additional nails (Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, modern prophets and apostles) gives one a secure path.
As a convert to the LDS faith I struggled with accepting and understanding the need for additional scripture. As I explored the doctrines of the LDS Church my understanding began to open and when I sought the answers to prayer I found personal revelation was forthcoming in ways that cannot be denied. However the revelation came after I was willing to commit to the changes that would be necessary to become a member. As I have struggled with challenges in life I have found Heavenly Father to be a very compassionate God. His answers are regular and amazing - but I have had to learn how to hear and understand them. I’m not perfect at it but I know that He knows me personally and individually.
I really enjoy what you are doing with your podcasts. They are informative and fun to listen to. I look forward to continuing to listen and learn from you on your journey to understand if not join the LDS Church. You are helping to gather Israel in ways that you may not understand here in mortality but your heart is pure and I’m sure Heavenly Father is pleased with your work.
What is one doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints that appeals most to you?
The Trinity is not found in the Bible, however, it becomes very visual through scripture. Remember, there are several “official” variations of what Joeseph Smith witnessed in the grove and several versions on the method used in translating the plates.(Gospel Topic Essays). “Seek ye the truth, and the truth will set you free”
Awesome podcast, as always. Love your channel
As a latter day saint, I am amazed at how much we do believe the same. We express things differently and have some differences, but we have a great deal in common.
Pastor Jeff, huge love and respect. Thoughts..
When Jesus left the apostle's, He said one "like" him would come - The Spirit of God, so that all men may know the truth of all things, he didn't leave the bible. The bible is the word of God although we can only know the truths contained within through the Spirit of God.
So Jesus prays to God (himself) on the cross and asks God (himself) why have you (himself) forsaken me (again himself)????
So Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane prays to himself and states, Father (himself) all things are possible unto you (himself) take this cup from me (himself) but not my will (himself), but thine (himself) be done. ???
I have yet to have any evangelical Christian explain to me their understanding of God without getting completely mixed up in there words, use concepts they don't even believe or even lost.
Maybe it's much more plain and precious.
Pray to know!
You fail to understand the doctrine of the Trinity. God is one Being who is three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Because these are three distinct persons, it is not unusual for one of the Persons to speak to one of the other Persons. In such a case, as with Christ praying to the Father, he isn’t talking to himself because he is talking to another person.
Pastor, I have written you before. I understand your love FOR ALL GODS CHILDREN. I find myself trying hard to understand the LDS faith. I live on Utah. I am Catholic. I have friends who are LDS. I know they love Jesus. I see that they have different understanding of the nature of who God is. God having a wife, we are spirt CHILDREN. Satan being a brother to Christ. All that at one time was insulting to me. Again I see the LDS doing great things for humanity. I have to say better then most Christians. I struggled again trying to figure this out. After watching all your videos I can say I open my heart. I trust God for all his kids. I know God a loving God. I truly have faith that God can and will straighten all this out. I know if God help me in my life about my lack of understanding. God love is amazing. Amen
Big fan Jeff… Keep doing what you’re doing. I wasn’t able to be here live but I did listen to the episode. I have a burning question. You repeatedly state that you feel like baptism is not an essential ordinance for salvation, and you embrace the Bible as infallible scripture, but how do you reconcile that with what Christ said in John 3:5 “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”?
@3lazyg Good question ... we read that in the context of helping Nicodemus understand the need for spiritual birth that being, 'born of water', refers to the natural process of child-birth in the human realm as opposed to the supernatural, spiritual birth into the family of God, when one is, 'born of the Spirit'. Hope that helps ...
@Jeremy Smith Fair enough ... but, again, in the context of helping Nicodemus see the distinction of two separate events, being born initially and then being born of the Spirit, it seems like a fair parallel of description rather than an ellipsis with a stretch to baptism.
Thanks Jeff. I can see how that could be interpreted in that way. I don’t share that interpretation but I really appreciate the explanation.
That episode is my FAVORITE episode of The Chosen by the way… “Holy Roof”. Lol.
I love Greg M. You guys make a great pair.
In listening to this episode, you go through certain criteria for being “born again”. I sure feel that that encompasses many in the Latter-day Saint faith tradition, myself included. I truly wish we could get to a point where our tender faith was not called a cult, and where we were recognized as a “Christian”faith- qualified by our sincere believe in Jesus Christ. I can’t wait for the day you come out and say that Latter-day Saints are Christian!
Yes, there are some fundamental differences in how we profess our faith and in what we believe. But our faith in The Man/The Great I Am and Jehovah, as the only begotten son of God, born of a virgin is absolute. He knows me.
I have always believed that hypothetically IF I was mistaken in the belief of my faith tradition, and yet I spent my entire life praying to him, doing his works and following is example, I believe his atonement on the cross would cover any sin and reconcile me to Him eternally.
I would love a Hello Saints “Are LDS Christian or Are They A Cult” Episode!
I’m grateful for you my brother and for the inroads you’re making between our faith traditions. We are stronger together.
Good example of where the Book of Mormon adds clarity: (3 Nephi 27:20)
20 Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.
@@HelloSaints .... "refers to the natural process of child-birth "
Yes, heard that one before. The problem with that Jeff, Nicodemus asked that same question and was rebuked of that thought when Jesus said... "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." And... the fact John the Baptist was already out there baptizing by water.
John 3
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
My cousin was a Christian Missionary Alliance Missionary in Viet Nam in the 60's. (His name was Wes Schelander). He had some poignant stories about things that happened during that time.
Beautiful. Many of our people were martyred in Vietnam in the 60s. 🙏🏻❤️
Trying to understand any use of the word “image” that doesn’t denote a physical reference or likeness.
If someone is after an “image” I think there are different ways to say we take after certain characteristics
I want to hear more from Jeff about epistemology. How can people really know things? All the way from the head through the heart? What role do “feelings” play? Is Christianity’s claim that the Bible is true purely historical and logical, like learning math or history? Does there need to be some individual realization or communication with God for verification?
Jeremiah says the heart is deceitful. What I've been taught as an evangelical is to find the facts, put my faith in the facts, then the feelings may or may not follow. About how to know things. The Bible's test is fulfilled prophecy. 100% accurate every time, or the person is a false prophet. Deuteronomy 18:20-22. The Bible is amazing at getting it right.
@@mikematney3439 I see where you’re coming from. From my point of view, I would say that there is no way to learn of Gods divinity except through the Holy Ghost, who speaks to both the mind and the heart. You can’t “know” just by reading the Bible story. It must be ratified to each kind and heart. I believe that your testimony is rooted in revelation. It is a living relationship you have with God. We all should practice communing with God through prayer and through the Spirit. Knocking, seeking, and asking. We “see through a glass darkly”, but at some point, “face to face”. We learn line upon line, here a little, there a little. Personal revelation, personal relationship with God.
God speaks actively, not ONLY through ancient text. I would exhort everyone to seek the spirit of truth, and learn through experience and trust in God how to not be deceived, but to truly hear Him. He lives!
“Was Jesus created?” Is such a good question that helps differentiate core doctrines of LDS and mainstream Christianity.
Exactly. Talking with an LDS about that, it seems he hedges by saying no. But what he means is none of us were created and he believes we're all eternal :intelligences".
@@dnzswithwombats right! That opens the door to who God is, what is eternal; who we are, and what is created. Leads to more topics of discussion that can show more differences of beliefs
@@maxstooksberry9458 Yes. Who God is 100% matters. I agree.
Morality had made things like infinity and no beginning difficult concepts to understand. But it's true that our existence is eternal both forward and backward
Jesus Christ was "the firstborn among many brethren [us]." Rom. 8:29
Loved this. Was at work so was unable to comment but listened in. Definitely appreciate you.
God has a plan for us, but we have the agency to choose our path
Just be happy, Pastor Jeff, and we do not need to agree on everything. Find commonalities…do not worry about the differences. We only need the Savior to help us with that….Heavenly Father, the Savior and the Holy Spirit.
Pastor Jeff said he wants the Panthers to win, that’s all I need. Have a good day, Jeff!
@Kane Viktorovich That's all you need ... Yea or Boo? 🏒
@@HelloSaints yea!! Go panthers! and Cardinals, and City!
Pastor Jeff, as a fellow Christian, I love what you’re doing here. I was LDS and left the Church only because of Doctrinal reasons, as did my family. I love the Latter-Day Saints, such wonderful people. I still have many as friends and we agree to disagree. I am referring them to this channel. I have a suggestion as a former LDS member, if you haven’t touched upon it already, can you go over why we feel there was no need for a restoration of truth and so many verses that reference that in the Bible, are referring to Israel. Do you have an email where I can send you information? Thanks & God Bless. -Rose
Sure! hellosaintschannel@gmail.com
I missed the actual q&a, hope you do more :)
I am very surprised at the amount of indepth doctrine and theology you've expressed. I've always thought doctrine didn't get that deep on main stream Christianity. It's so interesting to hear I really enjoyed you touching on the surface of it.
If you want to look deeper I'll suggest looking at the words of Martin Luther, John Calvin. More recent, although he passed away a few years ago, check out R C Sproul. He has a easy to understand series on things like, What is Reformed Theology and Holiness.
@@stevenrgates rest in God's perfect glory, R.C.
As a former LDS member who left only for Doctrinal reasons and I love the LDS people, I too, used to think that Mainstream Christianity didn’t have much substance to it, but I found out how wrong I was.
I am learning everyday about Christ and our Christian faith.There is alot of substance to the Christian faith. Pastor Jeff does a wonderful job differentiating between the LDS Church and what mainstream Christian’s believe.
Pastor Jeff I'm a native utahn. I'm from a small utah town with a majority of Mormons. My mother's side is strictly LDS and my fathers side devoutly catholic. My grandfather has been the town catholic church deacon for 40 years. How can I bridge the gap between these people and gospel I love without hearing about what they think of each other's churches? They both love each other but matters of faith I hate getting into because I've heard both sides for 30 years.
Hi Brian, I hope I can help here. I love my God.. my Father in Heaven. I also love My religion. I understand these two entities are completely different. I know that the purpose of Life on this Earth is to be tested in all things. doctrine
19:00
Pastor Jeff,
I appreciate your honesty in explaining your beliefs vs. the beliefs of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
There were two things you touched on in this video that I wanted to share my honest opinions about and invite you to think about.
1st, you state that the Catholic Church deviates a bit from the sola scritura belief and emphasizes the papal authority and tradition. You said this is “beautiful to you”. You also stated that mainstream Christianity holds beliefs concerning prophecy through the spirit as long as it does not contradict the Bible.
As a Latter Day Saint I also believe the Bible was inspired by God, I also believe that prophecy through the power of the Holy Ghost is beautiful. I hold a strong belief that when a prophet speaks through the inspiration of the Holy Ghost that what he has spoken is scripture. I believe that this is how the Bible came to be. Inspired men called of God wrote down their dealings with God and their prophecies so that we the readers would know who to turn to for a remission of our sins. I’m so grateful to God that today we have living prophets who can receive revelation through inspiration and help make clear what has been left up to interpretation. Or make clear what is not even discussed at all in the Bible, such as what happens to those who never knew Christ.
This leads me to my 2nd point. You stated that you are not certain what happens to those who never had the opportunity in life to know Christ. You also stated that you believe that if the person “deserves” to be in heaven that God would be merciful.
I personally don’t believe that any one “deserves” to go to heaven strictly because of the scripture found in Romans 3:23. “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” They need redemption through Christ’s Atonement just as much as you and I do.
This is what I find beautiful about modern prophecy. The Bible does not talk about what happens to these people. Modern prophecy explains beautifully what happens to these people. And yes, God is merciful and loving and has prepared a way to save ALL who desire to follow him.
Thank you for what you are doing. It motivates me to speak more openly about my faith with others who think differently than I.
So great! Thank you. Relationships matter!!!
@C Ambrose Yes! Relationships matter!!!
Were any scriptures or writings destroyed or “canceled” if they did not teach the accepted stance at the time?
Yes.
This was interesting! I definatly understand mainstream Christians belief on the Trinity more. Very educational!
Awesome, I'm a Catholic so I've always been a Trinitarian all of my life even though In the beginning when I first started to learn about it , it didn't make sense.
Now that I've returned back to Christianity, I have learned that their are trinitarians and non trinitarians. I try and understand non trinitarians a bit more like LDS but to me it can be a bit of a stumbling block bc the Trinity is so important to us Catholics and trinitarians Christians.
I do like to see the other side try and explain their view which is where I see A LOT of LDS get kinda confused about this topic. But it is a very interesting discussion
Does John 5:19 talk about Jesus watching Himself ( I guess in a mirror) and then knows what He should do from watching Himself??
Thank you for all your videos!! It helps so much to understand the differences but continue to have a balance of it. I am married to a Mormon & am way past the “milk” & have more “meaty” questions but with me being a Christian, it seems to come across antagonizing & I don’t intend it to be. Here is my question just on the “foundation “ of faith. I believe, as a Christian, that Jesus is TRUTH. All of His teachings to us, His sacrifice, & being in relationship with Him to better understand those teachings. So because I believe in Him to be TRUE that gives a guarantee of my salvation. Yet the LDS Church claims to be the TRUE CHURCH, yet they have no guarantee of their salvation. Why would the Heavenly Father organize a church of Jesus Christ with no promise or guarantee of salvation in the church? Again, not trying to cause a debate, just want a true understanding of the actual TRUTH is & their own free agency be accounted for. Thank you again for all you are doing. God Bless!! 💜
Hi Missie. This might be just the truth you are looking for. You say "So because I believe in Him to be TRUE that gives a guarantee of my salvation."
Well, the Saints believe in Him to be TRUE so according to your own conclusion... the Saints have the same guarantee of Salvation you have. So.... at least it's not like you thought that they have no promise or guarantee of salvation in the church. Right??
Additionally, Latter Day Saints believe every good person is saved. Even good people who may not believe in God.
Seems to me Heavenly Father very well could have organized a church of Jesus Christ WITH a promise or guarantee of salvation in the church. Yes??
God bless :>)
@@godsoffspring4195
Thank you for your reply & I understand what your saying however I believe that my salvation through Christ means that I will get to be WITH God & Jesus in my eternal life. I won’t have to work my way to around, through, however it’s recognized the Terrestrial or Telestial kingdom. I am promised to be with Him. Any place without God is hell to me. My husband & I have had plenty of discussions of our faith & this is the one that breaks my heart the most. He can’t tell me that he is guaranteed to be with God once he passes. He’s an AMAZING man with a good heart, but doesn’t feel he has done enough to be in the celestial kingdom. I guess my thought is, what was the point of Jesus dying on the cross for our sins & God giving the ultimate sacrifice of His son & of Himself if not to gift us with salvation, including being in His presences for all eternity. It hurts my heart to think that Jesus wasn’t enough. I hope that makes sense & doesn’t come across derogatory. I just want to make sure I am very specific in my prayers to God & the spirit in guidance over this. It’s just weighing heavy on my heart for others & I have to feel that is from the Spirit. Thank you again 💜
@@jeremysmith9694 He was just baptized back into the church last December & is working his way back to the temple. Just when we have the conversation about salvation & KNOWING he is saved, he says he is not sure. He only hopes that he is “doing” enough to be covered. I’ve asked him about the thief on the cross who was being crucified for all his ill/evil intent & actions. When he recognized Christ & who He was, the thief asked Jesus to remember him & Jesus replied “ I assure you, TODAY you will be with ME in paradise”. (Luke 23:41-43). The thief didn’t do anything but confess & acknowledge & he was saved. My husband says that he can’t believe that. The thief didn’t “do” anything to help him get into heaven. I see he did a great deal in recognizing who Christ is in his heart as to where the other thief continued to mock Jesus. I just want him to see what the Bible truly says & to pray on it the same as he did with the BOM, not just completely shut it down. I don’t want him to feel like I am bible beating him either.
I just see it, from discussions I’ve had with my husband, Sisters, & Elders that all that Jesus did for us, just isn’t enough. I stand FIRM in my faithful belief the Jesus is the ONLY thing I need. Through the gift of salvation, grace, & mercy. I will value my works for his exhalation, not my own. Through believing in Him & surrendering my life to him, I am gifted with the Holy Spirit & brought into the Royal Priesthood. This is what changes my heart to do my best to be like Christ & to love thy neighbor as thyself. I just pray for the world & grateful for ALL of us who have a heart for God & try to help in bringing the lost to Him. Thank you for hearing me & for your respect. It’s greatly appreciated! Much love & God Bless!
@@jeremysmith9694 Thank you so much for your understanding & explanation. It just means a lot to me for him to have peace in that blessing, well actually for ALL of us to have peace in that blessing. I’ve learned to just agree to disagree & remain in diligent prayer over him. I appreciate your kindness 🩷
Thanks for a great video Jeff! I liked how you described comparing manuscripts of the Bible together. I hope you have also added in their the Book of Mormon quotes from the Old Testament nice they came from around 600BC which makes it one of the oldest copies of Isaiah and other books. Also a question- If the Bible is the word of God and the standard to which truth should be weighed against, what is your thoughts on the fact that the Bible does not agree with itself in parts? Dan McClellan has many videos talking about the fact that the Bible is not Univocal and contradicts itself. Can the Bible be the definite source of truth if it doesn’t agree with itself?
MY last question- Is Tim Hawkins right that the recipe for Rice Crispy treats is in the message Bible?
36:56 you said that God doesn't have a physical body, and that He is spirit. Three questions on that: First, if Jesus is God incarnate, isn't it better for evangelicals to say God has a physical body through Christ? Second, what is the purpose of forcing the rest of us to have a spirit and physical body, even to be resurrected to our physical bodies, if God doesn't have a similar body? Finally, if God is spirit, what is the purpose of having a third member to the Godhead in the Holy Spirit?
20:00 Oh man, this is bringing up all kinds of good questions for me!
1. Since you've differentiated between SOLO and SOLA Scriptora, and said that there's even room for revelation, why is it so hard to consider that JS may have been given revelation to clarify - so to speak - the Trinity into what we call the Godhead?
2. You said that what you appreciate about catholicism is that they hold to tradition, and that tradition creates a sense of infallibility. But didn't the Jews have a long history of tradition that only proved to move them farther and farther away from recognizing the Savior among them? Can't tradition sometimes create a blinding and a stumbling block?
Pastor Jeff, at the roughly 16 minute mark, there is a comment from Glen. He is a Catholic living in Utah, and sees those LDS members converting to Evangelicalism as a positive step. You expressed a little bit of shock at this, and compared our appeal to Church authority as a common ground. While there is this commonality between us Catholics and LDS, this is about where the commonality end.
Obviously, I don’t speak for the Catholic Church, and if what I am about to say goes against church doctrine, it is unintentional. Catholics and Evangelicals do disagree on quite a bit of theology. However, with that being said, we are a lot closer on our beliefs than either of us are to LDS. I would say a good amount of difference between Catholics and Evangelicals comes down to interpretation of certain biblical passages. This is in contrast to us (Catholics) and LDS. The core belief of the LDS church is the need for the restoration. This belief basically indicts the Catholic Church, and accuses it of falling into apostasy. It also says that most of the teachings of the Church, which Evangelicals can claim as teachings as well, are wrong; the Trinity being a prime example. The Catholic Church will say that while Evangelicals are misguided in some of their teachings, they are still a part of the catholic (universal) church; just a separated part, one without the full and divinely revealed truth. This cannot be said of the LDS church.
I want to preface this part with saying, this is not intended to be ill-willed or mean spirited. I don’t think the same thing as above can be said of the LDS. The problem here is, according to Catholic belief, the LDS church does not have a misguided view of Christ’s teachings, they have a wrong view. Where the Catholic Church will accept the baptism of most Protestant denominations, those of the LDS are not considered valid. This is due to their fundamentally wrong understanding of God in the Trinity. This is just one example of many.
This is why we would view LDS converting to Evangelism, or even another Trinitarian believing denomination, as a positive step. Church authority and rejection of Sola Scriptura are merely surface level similarities.
I don't know that I can even finish this video Jeff. More and more you're showing your true colors here. You're not on a voyage of discovery about the LDS Faith. You have everything in your mind made up already.
I think this issue is that you don’t understand my stated purpose of this channel. I have never said I’m investigating to decide anything. I have clearly stated in many videos I’m aiming to learn AND share my perspective. This video is in the interest of the latter.
@@HelloSaints I didn't mean that you're trying to decide whether you want to be LDS or anything like that. I know that that's not even in the realm of possibility,. I can respect that.
Sometimes I get quite passionate about things. If I offended you, I'm sorry. I guess I should be grateful that you've at least attempted to understand where we're coming from.
Pastor Jeff, what about the books of scripture the Bible makes reference to but are not there.
They rarely mention this. And the only cop-out is “it’s a mystery.” Obviously God preserve the parts that he did for a specific purpose, but it’s absolutely silly to me that people would assume that there wasn’t more out there that could’ve been benefited from an understanding the doctrine. And who knows but the Catholic Church suppressed and hid certain books for their own benefit. If anyone has read the ascension of Isaiah, or the book of Enoch, or many of the books in the Apocrypha, that are no longer considered canonical…. You can feel the spirit testify of the things were there in that are true. And how they are not considered scripture is beyond me.
Scripture is given for the benefit of man for reproof and instruction. People can’t even write their own personal scripture based on the manifestations that God gives them through his Holy Spirit in their journals. That is scripture also. Personal scripture. So I don’t understand why you’re such a big deal that they don’t want Joseph Smith’s manifestations to be true. The only thing I can think of that would block it is that they don’t want to change.
@@zionmama150 Not to mention the 40 day ministry of Jesus to his apostles. We are told he did teach them for 40 days but none of those teachings are in the Bible. Hugh Nibley says within Gnostic works is over 200 pages of writings claiming to be the 40 day ministry. He said If you combine them to one narrative they would read like an LDS Temple Endowment Ceremony.
I appreciate your viewpoints. For me my view of the godhead/trinity is best summed up in the Scriptures.
Jesus asks his diciples who do they say he is. Peter says that Jesus is the Son of the living God. I believe here Peter is saying that Jesus is the Son of God. The only begotten of God in the flesh.
The Father is living and the Son is also living and is His son.
LDS believe that Jesus was never created but has existed from all eternity to all eternity in some form.
Correct me if I’m wrong on this, but my understanding of LDS theology is that all are (for lack of a better word) “offspring” of who you refer to as Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. This would include Jesus, Lucifer, all angels, and all humans. Which means that we, the angels Jesus, etc, are all (again, lack of a better word) related. Now to my question. Assuming that everything I have expressed above is true, does that mean that we humans are uncreated, and have existed in some form from all eternity?
@Kenneth Bergstrom Yes.
The only clear doctrine we have though that is explicit is that Jesus was in the beginning with the Father. He has always been above the rest of us and is a God himself. Thus is mentioned in the Bible as well and builds upon the LDS perspective that Jesus and the Father are one in purpose and mission but not one person/in matter.
@@kennethbergstrom3383 an interesting study on this works be to look into the Bible verses twisting to the sons of God as well as the morning star(s) and the first and second estate. We are eternal. We were there witnessing the creation of the earth right along with Jesus
@1820Vision where does this teaching come from then?
@@briandavis6898 and what Bible verses are those?
Catching the replay now 🤣 I'll look into leading saints too. Thanks for the recommendation
I love wholesome interfaith dialogue. I appreciate your willingness to engage in respectful discussions and to build bridges of understanding.
I do have a question about your beliefs on heaven and hell. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s my understanding that most evangelicals believe members of the LDS faith will end up in hell.
I am genuinely curious, as you have become more familiar with our teachings and developed friendships with various members, what your stance is in that regard. Or maybe a better way to phrase the question is: What is the main requirement to get into heaven and is it possible for LDS members to achieve that without altering their beliefs?
Thanks again for your thoughtful respect. Much love.
Great to hear a summary of some of the major items, both to understand the similarities and appreciate the differences. And nothing here keeps me from thinking we can't do much good in the overlap! One thing I've not seen covered - recognizing that Christianity doesn't all agree on the details of God - is "who is Satan/the devil"? Is there some agreement in that, or are there differences and what are they? Thanks for all your work, I'm only starting to see how much you're doing, and how much it must take to do it, that we probably don't recognize/appreciate.
Who would you say has the authority to make determinations on matters of doctrine?
I as a Catholic look towards the Church Christ created and gave his authority to. The magisterium of the Catholic Church
And I as an Evangelical would disagree with Xander on that stance on a fundamental level.
I would suggest that only a living prophet who communicates personally with God Himself has the authority to speak on behalf of Him. Doesn't the Bible itself declare "Surely the Lord God will do nothing but (unless) He revealeth Himself to His servants the prophets"? (Amos 3:7) Aren't the prophets the only ones who could speak for Him throughout all ancient history, throughout the Bible? All the Biblical scholars in the world can vote on a doctrine, and all the ministers or bishops of religion can vote on any person to lead them, but only God chooses who He will reveal Himself to, and that person is a prophet, and wouldn't what He says trump all the scholars or ministers or bishops of religions?
@@BrendonKing Sola Scriptura is unbiblical and was never taught by Jesus, the apostles, or the church Jesus Christ founded for 1500 years.
@@hankbrock8609 I would refer you to Hebrews chapter 1, where the completion of the prophets is fulfilled with the coming of the Son
Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
The need for a prophet ended with Christ's incarnation. We have received the Prophet of prophets, the King of kings, and the Lord of lords.
For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”?
Or again,
“I will be to him a father,
and he shall be to me a son”?
6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God's angels worship him.”
7 Of the angels he says,
“He makes his angels winds,
and his ministers a flame of fire.”
8 But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
The prophets merely served as the heralds of someone and something far greater than themselves. Does God need a spokesperson if God dwells amongst His chosen people?
I missed the livestream! While listening, I had a question.
You explained that God created us to be in full fellowship with Him, but the Fall of Adam and Eve takes us from God's "intended" plan for us. I'm sure you don't mean in this way, but that makes it sound like the adversary threw an unexpected wrench in God's plan, that it's a perversion of what God wanted. How can that be? Could God not have stopped it from happening? What is a protestant's perspective on why God, being omnipotent, omnipresent, all-knowing, etc. would in essence allow Satan to mess up His plan for Creation?
44:00 Regarding God creating us in His image.... why? Why did God (from a protestant point of view) feel the need to create beings to be in relation to Him? Or even further back, why did God feel the need to create at all? Was He lonely, and needed beings to be in relation to Him? And why give us bodies different from His own spirit form?
Simple. His glory. God was God before we were created, and God is God now, and God will continue to be God after the end of all things. God does not change with or without you existing.
@@BrendonKing then why create people? Is God so selfish that he only creates people so he can have people to praise him?
My understanding is that Adam and Eve were given 2 contradictory commands.
They had to choose 1 and they chose the 1 with children! ❤
So my honest question to you is this: Is Nephi then wrong when it says "the Lord giveth no bcommandments unto the children of men, save he shall cprepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them." 1 Nephi 3:7
To me, it sounds like that couldn't have been the case that God gives two contradictory commands. Why would he give Adam and Eve any command that they could not complete in that given moment? That seems to me like God set them up to fail in some regard.
@Brendon King God didn't give them commandments that they couldn't accomplish. They could have chosen not to eat the fruit and kept the second commandment easily.
But the way that needed to be taken to accomplish the second was by leaving the garden. And a way yi do that was given to them.
Life was not designed to be easy. You can't be tried and tested if nothing ever goes wrong. You can't know the good without first knowing the good.
@@akpred but that doesn't make sense in the context of 1 Nephi. In order to complete one, it is assumed that Adam and Eve had to willingly violate the other, meaning God placed them in a situation where they HAD to sin in order to progress, making God the author of their sin. If I have to "rebel" in order to be faithful, then it's a catch-22
@@BrendonKing that's how I see it. We have to make a choice. Between ease and posterity
@@akpred I see your position, i just don't see how it doesn't excuse God for compelling them to choose one sin over another. That's the part that isn't resonating with me.
I enjoy your videos and excited you have moved to Utah! One question I have is does your Church pay you to be a Pastor? What does your Church think about this You Tube?
I missed the live stream. I was wondering have you heard of Jared Halverson? I would love to see you both on a discussion. He has a channel called Unshaken. I think he could really answer any question you haven't found an answer.
My biggest concern is when you talk about the fall of Adam and Eve and that Gods intended purpose for us was derailed and needed to be restored. Wouldn’t an all knowing God who can see beginning from the end be able to know that would happen and establish a plan that would prevent that possibility, if He truly meant for that to be our experience from the beginning. Gods intended purposes always accomplished according to Hid will and timing.
Pastor
I totally understand education is a vital format to learn about following Jesus and reading HIS teachings and HIS ministry in the New Testament.
My question is why so many videos on the LDS and that more evil so called Church called Scientology?
Just pondering.
Thank you, keep up the amazing ministry.
So, do you think that they would have been able to have children if they had not partaken of the fruit? Would we have had agency?
I have a question:
Based on the following four scriptures
1. 2 Peter 2:4
2. Jude 1:6
3. Revelation 2:12-13
4. Revelation 12:3,4.7-9
Where does the devil physically reside at the moment?
(My current belief is Spriit Prison or Hell, where he rules as the warden over the captive spirits who lived wicked lives. Of course, with his demons as prison guards.
But he has influence over the earth.)
@HelloSaints - Pastor Jeff, I don’t know if you’ll see this or not, but I tried to follow the Live session and even tried to comment (you were kind enough to even respond to one of my comments). Thank you.
However, it was hard to focus with all the comments flying (too many “attacks” and “arguments” instead of true Q&A), which is unfortunate because I have a lot of sincere questions. You mentioned your church has missionaries, I know there’s no way for you to talk to so many, but if you can’t, then can you help me connect with someone who can have a more personal discussion with me? I too want to understand why people believe what they believe. I believe that we can all be better and more compassionate people with a more complete understanding of where others are coming from. I appreciate your channel and “fighting criticism with curiosity”. I wish more people would be patient and less defensive, and let people share and the spirit guide. Maybe this LONG comment is buried and lost in cyberspace, but I had to put it out there. Thank you and God bless.
I might not be a missionary from pastor Jeff’s specific church but I am an evangelical christian who has gone to bible college (just a year for personal growth) and has done some local mission work before and want to genuinely create respectful relationships with latter day saints, so if you think I am knowledgeable enough 😂 to have a personal discussion I would love to connect!!
@@laurenpayne8194 thank you for responding 😊 I would like to chat for sure. I’m really not good with technology or social media stuff, I actually just downloaded the UA-cam app and started doing this when my brother told me about Pastor Jeff a couple months ago. So I’m not sure what the best approach would be, so if you have ideas let me know. You might have opened a can of worms 😂 I have so many questions 😂
@@laurenpayne8194 are you still open to some discussion/questions? Is this the best way to do it… in these comments… or should we share emails or some other venue? Sorry, I’m not savvy with all this.
Alternatively you can give your email and I could send you an email first if you would prefer rather than you emailing me first, whichever works better for you :)
I love how you are non confrontational and explain what you believe and try to say, as best as you can, what we believe. Still, as a Latter-day Saint, and though I appreciate you trying to learn what we believe, I wonder why you don’t emphasize the doctrine of the Restoration? That’s what missing from THIS conversation. I know that there was an apostasy and there is a restoration. The Bible testifies of both. Either a restoration began or it did not. My advice is very simple and this is for everyone: Don’t get too caught up in facts. Those who are humble (and I’m not saying you aren’t) and APPLY what they learn and pray about the Book of Mormon, another testament of Jesus Christ, and pray about Joseph Smith being chosen by God to be the prophet of the restoration, will realize as I do, and as millions do, that the true church of Jesus Christ has been restored to the earth (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) and that the restoration of the gospel began with Joseph Smith seeing God the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ. Though, the preparation of this has been prepared before the foundations of this world. Once a person Knows this by the power Holy Ghost, everything else you learn is like icing on the cake. Though you may have made several videos about that, a humble seeker of truth must APPLY what they learn otherwise it is just facts. Like a history class. The Holy Ghost testifies of all truth. We must all pay attention to the Holy Ghost. THIS is what matters most from this conversation. Either the message of the restoration is true or it’s not, and I testify to you and others that it is true. We call this testimony-it’s what we know based on revelation from the Holy Ghost. That is what is missing from this conversation. Sometimes I admit I squirm in my seat listening because sometimes it seems as though the conversations miss the importance of personal revelation from God. Facts are great. Being a scriptorian is great and noble but we must seek revelation from God through sincere prayer asking him to confirm truths that we learn. The Ghost will speak peace to our minds and hearts. He can lead us to truth. We nurture our testimonies as we APPLY what we learn. Again, facts are just facts, and are helpful, but as we seek truth FROM God as I mentioned above-THIS is what matters most for every one of us. May we do so. That will be the day! Thanks for listening.
Read the Bible like a child and read to understand and trust every single word and let the text speak to you then will you know what the truth is. There is only one God a triune God father son and Holy Spirit and his name is YHWH/Jehovah.
I am curious with the trinity perspective, how do you view Luke 24:39 after Christ's resurrection stating He has flesh and bone. If He is only Spirit, but his resurrected body is witnessed by many, In what form is He now? And in what form will He be when He comes again?
We don't believe that Christ is 'only Spirit'. We believe the Father is spirit, but the Son has a body of flesh.
@@BrendonKing how if the Father and Son are the same being? Is it when He manifests as the Son, He takes up the body, or is He the Father prior to the Resurrection and now seen as the Son?
@@annetteatwood8272 No, what you are describing is the heresy of Modalism. The father does not 'manifest' as the Son, ever. The Father and the Son are not the same and have never been the same, yet they are still God.
The Bible Project has a good video explaining the concept of the Trinity.
ua-cam.com/video/eAvYmE2YYIU/v-deo.html
If God created man that turned to the forbidden fruit so quickly, why did God create such flawed creatures? Are we a mistake because He forgot to disable our agency protocols? How does agency play into the evangelical perspective in general, not just in the garden?
Jeff - Two questions for you,,,
Should I leave the LDS church and join The Protestant Church?
Do I need to do this to go to Heaven?
@GStar1979 We see that the fundamental issue for the gift of salvation is accepting Jesus as the son of God and HIs work on the cross and that through his sacrifice and redeeming blood and His resurrection to life, we become children of God through grace (John 1:12-14). At that point, where you go to church isn't the critical issue. Understanding His mission and that by grace we are called a new creation that will compel us to continue to seek truth and freedom.
I wish you ran the Protestant Church. Wish all these other pastors would follow your great example.
Thank you for responding!
I have a question for you Pastor Jeff that i don't know if anyone has asked yet.
If during your study of the LDS faith you feel the Holy Spirit guiding you to convert, will you?
How will he test his feelings to know it is really the Holy Spirit? What should he turn to for that? Many are convinced by very strong feelings but are in error.
@@dnzswithwombats when you get a sacred, powerful witness of the Spirit, you are not left in doubt. I say this out of very recent experience.
@@latter-daysaintchristian4134 Muslims say the same. Jehovah's Witnesses say similar also. Not all can be in the truth where they contradict. So, by what do we test?
@1820Vision That Bible you refer to for knowing that is breathed-out (2 Timothy 3:16) by God the Holy Spirit. So God's word is the test to know if our feelings are truly from God, even our very strongest feelings.
@1820Vision For knowing that God was never not God, we look at God's word which says that from everlasting to everlasting, God is God (Psalm 90:2). By this we know the teaching about God "progressing" is not true, for example.
10:00 Can we just acknowledge how impressive it is that you just rattle off all those names & stories & references in Alma👏 😂
Pastor Jeff, are the truth claims of the LDS church "on the table of consideration" for you? Or are you only learning about LDS claims in an academic sense?
I have a real problem with the idea that Protestants can have secondary doctrines that the Bible allows for disagreement on because the historical application of that has, in many instances, been terrifying. For example, Martin Luther preached open persecution against Anabaptist over their beliefs on baptism. On top of that, some of Martin Luther's other teachings inspired the holocaust. Southern Baptist were very pro slavery while many northern ones were not. Even today there are those in the Pentecostal movement who won't allow baptism unless one speaks in tongues while on the other hand-held there are pastors on the radio that openly teach that speaking in tongues is of the devil. These are not debates protestants are having with lds or even Roman Catholics. These are those things that we are being told now are "secondary doctines" that the Bible allows for disagreement on.
I would get lost as well in the Old Testament to see the significance of Abraham being commanded to sacrifice Isaac and then the Angel stops him.
The lesson Abraham gets of his love for his only son in that situation to sacrifice him he now understands to a degree what God will do in seeing his only begotten son to be sacrificed for us. That only has meaning to me in the context of literal Father to Son
In a triune context it must be a different lesson then what we experience in a family context
This may be getting too deep, but do Christian’s believe that the triune god existed when Adam and Eve were in the garden or did the triune nature become or exist as a result of the fall of Adam and Eve. I’m not sure how to truly ask, because I don’t know all of the descriptive language evangelicals use so forgive me… but essentially I am asking if the personage or distinctive part of the the triune god Jesus existed while Adam and Eve were in the garden and if so, why would that nature of god need to exist if his had intended for man to remain in the garden of Eden forever? The reason I ask is because we believe that Jesus was always a part of Gods plan and that’s the 44:58 reason he is part of the godhead. If God intended for us to remain in the garden, there wouldn’t have been a need for a savior or for his grace.
After Jesus died, He was resurrected.
He showed His resurrected body to His disciples.
This is all in the Bible.
When in the Bible does it say He loses His glorified resurrected body?
Can you point me to that scripture….
Thank you!
My understanding also is that Jesus died and was resurrected. He had a physical body after the resurrection and he ascended to Heaven with his physical body. Thomas asked to see the nail prints in his feet and hands (and ankles). Jesus showed them to him. Thomas touched them. Jesus had a physical body before and after death. It doesn't make sense for anybody to suggest that Jesus somehow later became a spiritual being only. Also, what's the point of a resurrection for all if we didn't have a physical body? Are people referring to a resurrection of the spirit only? That's not my interpretation.
It doesn’t exist. That’s the problem with the trinity. God the Father coming as a baby but then coming as a resurrected being.. seems illogical. I wish people realize God is a title; not a person. Elohim is a plural word that literally translates to “the forces”. We address God using the term Heavenly Father to signify the difference in their roles.
Yes, this is what does not make sense to me. I’ve asked Evangelicals this question several times. They all give different answers, skirting around the issue without answering this question! It’s so confusing and nonsensical!
We can with the help of Christ to change
Correction for you: The Saints don't believe God is flesh and blood either, Jeff. Flesh and bone. There's a difference and the Bible states there is no need nor can blood enter the realm of our eternal bodies. Blood is only a mortal requirement.
A question for you.... who told you there is such a place as outside space and time??
Thanks and God bless. :>)
The clearest book I have read about predestination is “Chosen to Serve: Why Divine Election Is to Service, Not Eternal Life,” by Shawn Lazar. He is neither Calvinist nor Arminian. An easy read! If you want to get into even deeper analysis, try “How Does God Draw People to Believe in Jesus?” by Robert J. Kerrey. This book answered further questions.
Good day Jeff,
Thanks for your videos it’s been a fun journey and conversation and of course to broaden our understanding of each other’s faith and beliefs.
Touching on the trinity, I appreciated hearing your perspective and description of it; it’s always been a very confusing belief to me. I understand a bit better after hearing you describe it and especially appreciate that you said you believed that God though beyond our comprehension to fully understand, that He is still a personal God and wants that personal relationship with us.
I still find the trinity a confusing concept which leads me to my question. I’ve selected a few examples below and wonder how you as a pastor would reconcile the concept of the trinity with the following scriptural passages?
“Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.”
You’ve described God as possessing all knowledge and all wisdom and that Jesus is God.
How then can God increase in wisdom if He is already in possession of all wisdom? If He does not already possess all wisdom,
how can He then be God? And how does God increase in favour with Himself?
As a latter-day saint, we would say they’re two individual Beings. Jesus would increase in wisdom having gained a
physical body like our Heavenly Father and through mortal experiences gain that understanding that our Heavenly Father
already possesses.
Jesus would increase in favour with His Heavenly Father in how He conducted Himself and by not yielding to the temptations
that come with a mortal experience.
By the way, we don't believe this diminishes Jesus in any way, He is our exemplar showing the path which we must go, following
His perfect example to obtain eternal life and exaltation of course relying on His atonement and mercy.
“Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.”
If God is good and Jesus is God, why deny that He is indeed good?
As a latter-day saint, we would say that Jesus though sinless and still going through His mortal probationary experience, had
not yet attained that celestial quality of goodness that our Heavenly Father possesses, and Jesus recognized and humbly and
meekly acknowledged this and, of course, always pointing to our Heavenly Father as that perfect example. To further illustrate
this, we can see the differences in this passage which Jesus taught before and after His resurrection…
“Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”
"3 Nephi 12:48 Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.”
“John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”
Jesus states that He is to ascend to His God. In the trinitarian view Jesus is God, so is God His own God??
As you know, as a latter-day saint, we would say that, again, they’re separate and individual beings. We’re all of us, spirit
offspring of our Heavenly Father, including Jehovah/Jesus and that our Heavenly Father is God to us all. I appreciate the order in
which Jesus makes His statement to Mary, He places Father first, then God which indicates to me the order of importance our
relationship is with our Heavenly Father. He is first our Father and secondly our God.
Bonus question while on the subject of the resurrection! Jesus’ body and God; Do you believe that Jesus is still in possession of
His physical body after having ascended into heaven to be with His Father? If God is spirit, the “invisible God”, did Jesus
surrender His physical body and if so, if a body is not necessary and undesirable, why resurrect it?
“Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.”
“Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
“Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;”
“Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.”
How does God sit/stand on His own right hand side?
“Revelation 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.”
If Jesus is on the right hand side of God, yet God is spirit, who “sat” upon the thrown?
You know the latter-day saint view on these haha. Individual Beings, yet one in purpose, heart and mind!
Thanks Jeff and hope you and your family are well!
Hello Robert, I am not Jeff, but I am a Saint (in other words, a Christian) and share the same beliefs (as far as I know) with him. Here is my attempt to answer your questions.
“Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.”
Jesus Is God, but He also had a human body on earth, and he was a helpless crying baby like we all were growing up. Not out of sin but out of the limitations that this body comes with. This verse is the end of chapter two of Luke and covers Jesus' childhood. This is verse is conveying Jesus growing up after teaching in the temple as a child. He grows up physically (in stature) and mentally (in wisdom). Obtaining favor with God (at least of the Father) is necessary for Salvation. This is summing up how Jesus is living a perfect sinless life. He can obtain favor from the father because he is not the Father. They are all God, but each member is different.
“Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.”
Jesus is asking a rhetorical question here. The answer to this is crucial for salvation, Jesus is God, so he is Good. (think of the time Jesus asked his disciples "who do you say I am?" I can also note, that he lists the commandments to get into heaven afterwards in Mark 10:19 "You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, Do not commit adultry, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother." all of these things Jesus did, therefor he is good and cannot be denying himself by his previous question.
“John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”
Yes, God is his own God, you wouldn't find God worshiping Baal or Zeus would you? This does not break the trinity, it in fact shows the differences in the members (persons). Jesus submitted himself to the Father as he died on the cross, the Holy Spirit "the helper" also serves to communicate to us on behalf of the other two members, and ministers to us as it is with us always. My brain is subordinate to my will, and my hands and feet are subordinate to my brain.
“Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.”
“Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
“Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;”
“Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.”
Again, if they are separate persons, this is fine but they are of the same substance, and of the same being and existence. Also, these are not necessarily litteral statements, but designed to show how Jesus death covers our sins. the Debt for our sins is death, Jesus paid that debt for us, and rose again. So he intercedes for the Father who sits on his Judgement seat as if in a heavenly court room. He is our lawyer so to speak. It also shows his Honor being God. One analogy is this, Imagine God as water, and this water exists as a Gas, a Liquid, and a Solid, all at once even touching each other. Remember, God, as you are using it is confusing because you are treating it as one person. God is the being to which the three persons belong.
“Revelation 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.”
Again, this is not necessarily a literal depiction of how things are with the Father Son and Holy Spirit. Revelation is a vision given to the Apostol John. It includes a lot of figurative language, numbers, and images. I would not be suprised if John saw a regal man sitting upon the throne. Also, we see that other spiritual beings, such as angels, can manifest in physical forms, such as the two angels sent to tell Lot to get out of Sodom, or the hand writing on the wall in Babylon.
I hope this helps you understand.
P.S. The best way to understand the beings vs persons relationship (in my opinion) is how the Hebrew does (among other places) in Genesis 1:1. Here as it says "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" the noun for God (El) in hebrew, is plural (Elohim) and the verb (ath) or (eth) i believe (my hebrew isnt the most perfect) is a singular verb (implying one entity acting) if you know spanish, it would kinda be like saying "Dioses hizo"
@@roderickpixler3239 Thanks for sharing Roderick, appreciate it. I still find the trinity a confusing concept.
One additional thought, the concept of the trinity, is one God but three "personalities" or "manifestations"? I'm not sure. When considering this though, and the resurrection, how would a main stream Christian resolve or interpret this passage?
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;
Does this mean somehow we'll all be spiritually meshed into one after a temporary bodily resurrection?
As a Latter-day Saint we'd say, Heavenly Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are individuals, though one in heart, mind, and purpose, there being no disputations among them and that in that spirit, we are to follow.
Thanks again!
@@robertbarrett487 This is talking about the Church, the global church, which is frequently talked about in scripture as the "body of christ"
Similar to the verse in which jesus says, "I am the vine, and you are the branches"
54:10 The atonement covers the evil parts of the Fall, so that we may keep the good parts It is not a restoration to what was, it will be to something greater, if we accept the atonement.
I have to Ask? Are we coming together SAINTS? WERE ARE WE ALL AT WITH EACHOTHER?
From a Christian perspective, Jesus is not insufficient. Jesus is the only mediator between human beings and God. Because only Jesus is both, truly God and truly human.
Amen, John, Jesus is the one and only mediator between God and Man.
But if Jesus and the father are not two distinct individuals, then obviously there is NO mediator at all. There must be at least 3 separate individuals for a "mediator to exist.
@@nonrepublicrat Bible-believing followers of Christ DO believe in three distinct persons who are one being, one God.
I don’t think that anyone is claiming Jesus to be insufficient. Rather, the ordinances being broken and needing restoration.
@Zion Mama also a knowledge of, and reliance on, the covenant obligations attached to those ordinances to bind us to the Lord and bind the Lord to us.
Some people think in terms of whose interpretation of the Bible is “right “ and whose is “wrong”. Some people think in terms of whose interpretation is orthodox and whose is “heterodox” or “heretical”. Still others are more concerned with whether an interpretation is “biblical” or not.
The following suggestions may not be of much interest to people who are looking for ways to put them in one or another of the above-mentioned “boxes” but they are offered in the hope that they might be helpful to people who aren’t entirely satisfied with the way or ways they have heard certain beliefs articulated in the past.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. - II Timothy 3:16 & 17
It seems probable that, when those words were written to Timothy, what Paul meant by. “All scripture” was primary or exclusively the Hebrew Bible (those parts of our present Bible that were originally written in the Hebrew language).
Here’s the problem with considering tradition to be infallible: That’s what the majority of Hebews were doing two thousand years ago. Their religion was based more on Hebrew traditions and the traditional rabbinical interpretations of the Hebrew Bible than on the Bible itself. Jesus didn’t condemn all of those traditions but he did offer alternatives to some of the traditional rabbinical interpretations of the Bible AND in several instances, he appealed to specific Bible passages in support of his interpretations of other Bible passages. In the twenty-first century, various Christians refer to the traditions of their parents or the traditions of a specific denomination as having authority. I’m not opposed to traditions per se but I suggest not considering traditions to be part of a person’s religion - only as supplemental to biblical religion. No matter how many people or what percentage of professed Chrsitians subscribe to a traditional interpretation of a Bible passage or how long that interpretation has been widely accepted, it is better to make a clear distinction between the Bible itself and anyone’s interpretation of it. That’s why I appreciate the tradition (if you want to call it that) of having someone other than the pastor or visiting preacher read the primary Bible passage about which the sermon will be a commentary before the pastor or visiting preacher ever steps into the pulpit. (One congregation whose services I attended had two members read the primary Bible passage antiphonally but I’ve not seen that done elsewhere.)
The same principle applies with regard to considering the clergy or officers of a denomination to have authority to interpret the Bible. There may be some sense in which the clergy have ADMINISTRATIVE authority within their respective denominations but to teach that clergy have interpretative authority is to imply that an organization IS the church - which I don’t believe.
I consider the God of the Bible to be triune (one God in three persons). Because the word, “Trinity”, emphasizes the three-ness of God without a corresponding emphasis on his one-ness, I prefer to avoid using the word, “Trinity ''. You’ve heard of Trinititarians and Unitarians? I’m triunitarian.
It wasn’t until recently that I became acquainted with evidence that some methodists have used the term, “Almighty God”, when referring to our heavenly Father only. I asked a methodist clergyman whether he could verify that and he didn’t know so, if anyone reading this is well enough acquainted with methodist history to know of such usage, please direct us to primary sources.
I consider Jesus to be fully divine - i.e. worthy of our worship. I’m also aware, however, that some people have understood (or misunderstood) references to Jesus as “God”. For that reason, I prefer to use the word, “divine”.
My King James Bible says the Son of God is the “image of the invisible God”. I don’t know Greek so please help me out here. Would it be appropriate to translate that as “the unseen God”?
Probably every adult understands the “three dimensions” of the physical universe. Some people say time is a “fourth dimension”. I don’t pretend to know what that means but I insist that the universe also has a “spiritual dimension”. There are beings who exist in the spiritual dimension and who we can’t see except when they choose to reveal themselves to us. That doesn’t mean we can’t ever see them - only that we don’t normally see them. Beings who live in that dimension are “spiritual beings” and that is how I understand what Jesus meant when he said God is a spirit. (John 4:24)
Jesus said, “he that hath seen me hath seen the Father”. Maybe there is some other way to understand that passage but I don’t imagine that the redeemed will still be “unable” to see our heavenly Father we all get to heaven.
I’m comfortable with the saying that we are now living in the kingdom of grace and that we will someday live in the kingdom of glory. I seldom say that, however, because I think it means different things to different people. I’d be even more reticent about saying the church is “ushering in the kingdom of God” because I wouldn’t want to be understood as meaning that the kingdom of glory will be the result of what Christians do.
I think Adam and Eve would have had choices - even moral choices - without the forbidden tree in the garden of Eden.
In our judicial system (here in the United States), there are usually several “phases” of the process. There is an investigation, the results of which are submitted to a judge or jury, there’s a deliberative process, the announcement of the verdict, a sentencing phase during which the jurors (or the judge) determine(s) what will be required of or done to someone who has been pronounced guilty, and then there is the executive phase when the decision of the court is carried out.
I don’t mean to imply that the phases of the final judgment are exactly the same as those of any earthly judicial system but, as I understand the biblical evidence, there are phases of the final judgment as well. At least one of the phases of the final judgment will occur, I believe, at the time of the glorious appearing of Jesus but I don’t think all of the phases of the final judgment will occur at that time.
As to whether the second advent of Jesus is “the consummation”, yes, at least in some sense because the “marriage of the Lamb” will occur either when Jesus appears to rescue the redeemed and take believers to the mansions he has gone to prepare or shortly after the redeemed arrive in heaven. Even that, however, isn’t “the end of the story” if the heavenly Jerusalem will descend to Earth after the millennium, the finally impenitent will be resurrected, Satan will deceive them into thinking they can successfully attack the city and, when they try, “fire” consumes them. That will be the executive phase of the final judgment. After which ,our planet will be restored to its edenic beauty - re-created, if you will.
My parents died in the 1980s. Before that, they sometimes said people should continue learning because when that process stops, “it’s time to start building a black box.”
Because of what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches about “exaltation”, I avoid using that language but, unless there is a reason to think we will someday stop learning, can our continuing education throughout eternity be considered “exaltation” in some sense?
I first encountered the “replacement” idea in the 1950s and rejected it entirely because I had always thought of the faith of Jesus as the true CONTINUATION of the faith of Abraham and other Hebrew patriarchs of antiquity.
I consider the old covenant to be a relationship with the creator based on what we do or hope to do or try to do or, especially, what we promise to do. I think of the statement made at Sinai, “All that the Lord hath said we will do and be obedient” as the prototype of the old covenant.
I consider the new covenant to be a relationship with the creator based on what the Lord has promised, beginning with the promise in Genesis 3:15 - sometimes called the protoevangelium.
Thus, I consider the new covenant to have been available to members of the human race from the gates of Eden but the old covenant is called old and the new covenant is called new because the old covenant was ratified with the blood of animals at Sinai before the new covenant was ratified with the blood of Jesus on Calvary. I don’t think anyone was ever saved (justified, sanctified or glorified) on the basis of the old covenant. Rather, I think it was a stepping stone to encourage people to move from trusting in the sacrificial ceremonies themselves to faith in the Lamb or God who was represented by those animal sacrifices. Which is why I reject the theological system known as dispensationalism.
I think Hebrews become Christians the same way non-Hebrews become Israelites - by being born again.
Another question (as I watch the replay and notice my first question was answered 🤣), I would love your input on the stripling warriors (sons of Helaman) if you aren't including that in your video. The first time that story started to sink in for me, I thought these young sons were like 18-25. But John Bytheway (you would enjoy talking to him if you meet him, he's an institute teacher in the church) pointed out in one of his books that they were most likely 13-16 years old and it blew my mind. But given the time period, that actually makes sense. What in that story stuck out to you most?
Addressing those 6 points:
#5 Who can be considered born again - I appreciate that on your channel you have mentioned that you are not the judge of who is or isn’t going to be saved by Christ. But I think the deeper question is less about who is going to be saved and more about why Christ saves and how he saves. Your view depicts a Christ who seems to be a respecter of persons. He chooses some but not others. This makes no sense to me. Because why would god not choose all of his creation? It seems to me that there has been some gatekeeping happening in the Christian traditions similar to that which the Pharisees did in Christ’s day. I don’t think it is holy.
In the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints, there is no gatekeeping. We fully teach that God is the judge and that he will make a determination that is just an merciful. We can warn people against outcomes, but we do not judge people on what their outcomes are. I see an awful lot of evangelicals doing that to us. I don’t really care what they think however because I know what God told me and I’m going to follow it regardless of whether they think I’m going to hell.
@Zion Mama, long time no speak. Hope all is going well.
I think I might be able to help with your question. While I don’t hold to the Evangelical belief set, I do hold to the position that some people will not be saved. You state, “He [Jesus] chooses some but not others.” This is the wrong statement or question to be making. The thing is, God as our creator, does choose to love all of his creation. That love is never ending and unyielding. The problem is, WE cut ourselves off from God. WE choose not to accept God’s love. WE are the ones that reject God. Just like in the Garden of Eden, our first parents decided to reject God, and fall to temptation. They cut themselves off due to their rejection and disobedience. Like a parent, he disciplined them, but still loved them in their disobedience.
One thing that I can hope for is that God, in his mercy, will save everyone. And that’s all that we can do. The Catholic Church, of which I am a practicing member, has never definitively declared that someone is condemned to hell. That is only for God to know.
@@kennethbergstrom3383 but Matthew 25 tells us what it looks like to do that.. to cut ourself off from God… it is less about religion and more about what is in one’s mind and heart. And the religion that gets people in their mind and heart the best is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Respectfully, Pure religion was defined in James 1:26-27. Not by religious aristocrats. This church produces the fruit spoken of in Matthew 25. It isn’t that God choses them, but that they chose Him. God can have the power to trump our agency, but chooses not to.
You can take this for what its worth which may not be much because I'm a nobody. Maybe I'm off on this but this seems to be the basic John 3:16 message. "For God so loved the world . . . " So I totally agree that He wants to save everyone. I don't think everyone chooses Him. He doesn't make us follow Him, He just asks us to because that path leads to life and He loves us. I believe that God is all-knowing so He also knows who will choose Him and receive the Holy Spirit.
I totally agree about the gatekeeping and only God can judge and He is for sure just and merciful. Expanding a little on what you said about warning people . . . this is awesome because we (humans) can save nobody and can only warn or share the truth. This gets into a whole history of people trying to make other people believe what they believe (inquisitions, torture, persecution, etc.) by forcing them to believe in whatever religion they were pushing and somehow thinking by torturing someone, they were saving them. God's Word is Truth so sharing that is all we can do with respect to saving. Repent and trust in Jesus because if you trust in a human, like a Pope for instance or the Pharisees, then you start having problems.
If “mainstream” Christianity sees Jesus as God it seems that has a core separation among many when it comes to prayers
Many of my friends pray in the name of Christ and others don’t use His name because “there is only one God” and take exception to using the name of Jesus Christ as we understand we pray to the Father in His name
Did Christ say that was the only way to pray ?
Im a little confused about the trinity. Would love explanation. If God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are all the same person, who was Jesus talking to when He prayed? Why did the angel say that Mary would have the Son of God if she was having God? Like if they are one person….maybe Im misunderstanding trinity but its truly always been confusing to me. Would love some help understanding! ❤️
@shaynacox8330 Ah, yes ... it is a mystery and understandable that there is difficulty in grasping the concept. Metaphors are too simplistic to fully grasp the full meaning where Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are fully God, possessing the same divine nature, character, will, and authority ... but God is one. That said, the persons are not each other. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or Son. They are not three Gods, but one God. I know, I know ... it's hard but so is understanding grace - the unmerited, unconditional love where there is nothing you can do to make Him love you more and nothing you can do to make Him love you less.