They should add some more colors to the damage numbers, like say area damage for instance, make it orange or something. Damage from proc on legendaries maybe could be another color and so on. Maybe im just stupid but I think it would be cool to get a better visual on what is doing damage.
+Ca11mero It doesnt have to be big billion crits. Orange damage is the Top 5% crits (iirc) you have pulled in the past 5 seconds. So you will sometimes see that if you hit for 35 billion once, then 29 billion next hit, only the 35 billion will show up as orange, the 29 billion as yellow. This also works on lower numbers, replace the billion with million and you get the same result. -Edit: Blizzard has a page up on "re-engineering combat numbers" when diablo 3 is selected on battle net. That is where I got my info.
i understood the principle, but seeing you operate with it in theory with the formula and showing the principle in praxis with the hitboxes was a very intuitive and practical way of explanation, well done sir!
Very great analysis! Allow me to be extremely difficult however and add some further calculation. My goal here is to help finding the ideal "x". I show below that "20" is almost impossible to attain for characters whose damage mainly comes from large AoEs. The formula gets more complex if your initial attack hits w targets. Your expected total pre-AoE damage would be A*w, where A is average damage per target. The AoE damage would then be y * (x_1 - 1) * 0.2 + .... + y * (x_w - 1) * 0.2, where x_1, x_2, ..., x_w is the number of enemies within a 10 yard radius of each w targets. So your damage increase ratio would be Sum(i from 1 to w) of y * (x_i - 1) * 0.2 / w = y * 0.2 * (1/w) * sum(i from 1 to w) of (x_i - 1) = y * (x_bar - 1) * 0.2, where x_bar is the average number of enemies within every 10 yard radius. Unless your attack hits the center of a blob that can't be all targeted, the enemies with the set of w targets more on the edge will have less enemies within their radius, dragging x_bar down from the ideal 20. So 20 is clearly an overshoot of your damage in most scenarios. So if someone would want a thorough figure of damage increase from AoE, he'd have to look at the shape of his own attack, figure what w is from this on average, how big is the blob he can mass with respect to w, and then find x_bar according, which will be quite smaller than 20 in most cases. For almost any attack though, I'm quite sure a skilled/efficient player could maintain a x_bar of 10. In short, the more AoE-based is your character, and the bigger those AoEs are, the further away from the ideal "20" x_bar will tend to be.
Nice guide. Thanks Quin! I knew AD is awesome since 1.08, but you just explained it in detail!! What i wonder is, how the AD works on Gungdo Gear during explosion...
btw, when you use a area ability like f.e. multishot from dh, then u could proc ad from every monster in 10yard for every multi shot hit (with double dmg passiv), this procs doubled, cause its direct "double-cast" of the ability. So u could draw 2 10 yards areas to every mop. deleting 80% of the circles and probably have tons of damage ;)
Good video well explained but my issue with area damage generally is it helps you kill the enemies you have least trouble with. The big enemies and rift guardian are affected less. So the mobs you kill the fastest die slightly faster and those you take a while take even longer through sacrificed stats.
Great vid - first GRift run I got a hallway-style rift and couldn't even get 3 or 4 at a time on average. Second one busted my record - call it RNG, but bad rifts are just bad rifts. Running DH, 50% paragon, +40% on gear (2 pieces) and gave up 15%*2 (30%) of my main spender stat to do it. Seems to work just fine... thanks for the theory-crafting!
A few comments: 1. the percentage is calculated from as if you have no AD%... this exaggerates its usefulness. In fact everyone comes with 50% ad in paragon so the net effectiveness have to be divided by 1.5. For example, if you are thinking about whether you take 20% elemental or 20% AD on the amulet, assume you have 20% +elemental on bracer and no extra AD% outside paragon, then you actually need to consistently have 5*(1.5/1.2)+1=7.25 enemies in the 10-yard circle for it to be worth it. And each additional AD% affix you have get progressively worse. 2. Therefore I think it is probably sufficient to get 2 AD affixes from shoulder and weapon probably. This is because cdr, chc, chd do not get progressively worse. cdr is multiplicative with each other where as chd and chc even though add with themselves but they are multiplicative to each other. AD% and +elemental% are strictly additive.
Thank you for explaining these things more clearly. Don't have time to research these things myself and there are really few accurate explanations how DH skills work, like when only main hand is used instead of total damage or both weapons. Now that i know AD is usable, all i need to test is that if it procs from rain of vengeance belt beast attack...
Thanks for the guide! 1 Question, there are skills in the game which indicates area effect dmg such as WD Confident passive, so the question is the following: Is there a grapic or addon help that can give me some aid about where exactly the end of that 25y ends? It could be useful to see where the edges goes around me when i'am in the middle of the fight. I could re-arrange my position to stay in the middle of the fight so my enemies technically would surround me efficiently. Thanks in advance.
I dont quiet understand how AD works wirh AoE spells for example grasp of dead (WD) if you hit like 10 enemies with it can they proc AD towards eachother?
So, if i get it right, lets say i have a Sorc, using my primary (that chain lightning attack) into a bunch of enemys (lets just say 10 enemys get hit), each enemy hit will trigger the the AD check? Like every enemy [if they are pretty close to each other] will run through 9 AD checks? While my Thunderfury proc will not trigger anything. But if i get the items, that my chain lightning can hit targets more then once AND the item that givves 10 more bounces, it will check each enemy 18 times [If all enemys stay alive AND stay close to each other] since, it modifies my normal attack. This is how i understood it. ----------- OR would it simply mean, that only the first target hit from my Chain lightning would trigger the AD check?
Thanks for the video, i still am like a noob on diablo 3, these videos are very helpful. I subscribed to your channel bc i see you have helpful videos. Thanks again :)
Quin awsome video! Just few questions... Area Dgm chance (20%) scales with skill proc rate you use? And another question, an "Area" skill (like WD Acid Rain) will have a chance to proc area dmg for every enemy you hit inside the AOE skill or just that one you targeted (or hit first)? Ty man
If a spell hits 20 enemies at the same time, does each one have a chance to proc AD to its surrounding.? I mean if I hit 1 monster close to another, there's 20% chance the other get AD, but If I hit both, do each one get the AD from the other? Meaning that If I hit 20 monsters they all send 10 yards AD to the 19 others?
each of the 20 monsters hit has its own individual 20% chance of proccing area damage in a 10yd radius around it. meaning in a best case scenario (however very unlikely) all the mobs can proc area damage and you will instantly clear the pack
quin how many hours do you spend formulating or figuring these things out amazing info but its astounding that you have boiled all this down to a mathematical level. and were would on start to do all this on there own is there files in D3 that show damage out puts or code you can find to extract these numbers ?
to all my fellow hammer of the ancients barbarians out there - "in our case" area damage doesn't seem to work with bracers of the first men and the focus set ring. I think it's not working with the IK damage buff for us either. Think this won't be fixed anytime soon. The conclusion? battlerage bloodshed as usual and area damage from paragon points, skip anything on gear and go for flat damage or survivability.
The one real question I have is what classes does this actually effect? Barbs DPS comes from set bonuses, Nat's DH is CR, Monks is set bonuses. WD pet build gonna become OP? What builds can support AD as a viable stat weight?
it would be a lot easier to understand if blizzard actually let us see our damage numbers at the end of a rift... (''you did x damage as area, x as crit, x as normal etc'')
my problem is getting AD along with CHD and CRC. often times im finding myself sac'n AD for one of those 2 stats. not to mention +dam or IAS. now, im not pro by any means, so im merely basing this off of the unreliable sheet dps. point is, i can hardly find the room for all my stats. because i always try to fit in (In-De-St, vit, AR, CRC, CHD, IAS, AD) then on helm, and jewelry i always have to be picky because we NEED those sockets for the gems, which is BS that leg gems only work on jewelry, AND that you cant use R-Gifts on jewelry.
Great video. I would like to ask you, does the area damage works if you cast meteor shower while using Etched sigil (wizard off hand weapon) ? I mean the auto casting from this legendary item. Thank you in advanced.
I see some problems with your arguments: 1, To get a lot of enemies on a 10 yard area you need a really really good rift AND it has to be melee monsters. Ranged monsters noramlly split and then you wont get that many togehter. Maybe its really good when fishing for grifts to climb the ladder but for nomral speedfarms or save gem upgrading runs i dont think its worth it. In those really good grifts you dont really need it and it will only make you fail those with more spread monsters. 2. Doing the Math isnt that easy either. When you calculate dmg increase via rolls on Shoulds, Gloves, Weapons, Then you are going to miss others stats on those. Maybe on shoulders if you take area dmg istead of a defensive stat you can calculate those in, however on weapons and gloves you would loose another dmgageamplifying stat like cc, cd, agi, attackspeed, or the CDR that just is really imporant for some builts to even work. So your maindmg gets decreased, thus decreasing your overalldmg in comparison to not running area dmg for those other rolls when you have less than 6 monsters in the 10yard radius. So your calculations only whoe the dmg increase that you would get IF you would get those areadmg rolls for free. You should maybe do the math on stuff like "how is the damage done changed when you take area dmg instead of critdmg(etc) on gloves, how does the damage DECREASE for less than x monsters." The damage decrease is very imporant too i think to see if it really is worth in overalldmg. When you fight packs, at least the ast yellow dude will normally be alone, riftguardians are alone and as mentioned before in rifts with monsters that are spreading you often only have 1-3 monsters in a 10 yard radius of each other even with pretty high density. I think especially for Ulianas you need lots of CDR rolls, you need at lease some defensive rolls, so you dont die between sevensidedstrikes and i would prefer to take rolls that always are good and not only in certain situations. However as I wrote in 1. i think it might be viable to use if you are fishing for certain higher grifts to climb the ladder. Then you would skip those grifts, where the area dmg would be as profitable.
Andreas D Ulianas BP monk has a lot of free areas for area damage because they use broken promises. Gloves don't need crit chance so Dex/CDR/CD/Area dmg . Weapons you need CDR/Mainstat/Area dmg, Shoulders can sacrifice vit or resis for area dmg. Then for the rings, you might even want to be swapping dex for area dmg. Along with paragons that's already 178% which is a stupid damage boost.
Oximo No visual effect at all. Basically the only time you´re ever going to notice AD is either if you´re testing it, or if you´re building/built for it.
Good guide in general, but the number 6 isn't particularly relevant; it's just the point at which 1% area damage becomes equal with 1% direct increase in damage from any other skill - basically because you get an average of one proc every 5 attacks, you need 5 targets hit with area damage per proc to equal the damage gain. You said this in a roundabout way, but I think that people who don't understand the relevance of 6 enemies might overvalue the importance of the number (and hence over or, more often undervalue the stat based on the number 6). Whether or not it is actually equal with another stat depends on how much of each stat you gain in that slot in comparison to area damage, specifically how many monsters, and so on. Area damage is also far, far higher in variance than any other stat (sometimes you get 10 procs in a row, sometimes you get no procs in 10 attacks), and the variance doesn't decrease with increase in the stat like crit chance does - it's always going to be a 20% chance to have any effect at all. In general I think an increase in variance is usually a bad thing for consistency in clear speed, but area damage has the potential to be so ridiculously overpowered when it does proc that I think it's a worthwhile chance to take usually.
Quin, how does this go with the karleis point/HPS combination? Does AD proc on EACH monster hit by each of the 3 daggers, or only once per throw (where the 3 daggers are considered one throw)? (we're talking about the lightning rune for impale here of course, and lightning elemental dmg of course). I'd only have AD from paragons and weapon, so it'd be 74%. I could re-roll vitality on shoulders to AD too, for an additional 20%, for a total of 94%, but that would leave me around 5k vitality and a bit fragile. I also have a weapon with 5% IAS...that I can use. I'm holding off atm, trying to figure out which way would be better (I have 20% IAS on HPS quiver and max in paragon too). When I look at d3planner, the 5% IAS weapon brings me to FPA 25 for a 3.8% DPS buff over my current weapon. d3planner doesn't seem to show the damage buff for AD in either sim or elemental DPS and I can't see anywhere where I've possible missed ticking a checkbox etc to include AD calcs... help!
Nice guide, but i feel you forgot a crucial part. the 10yard box is a thing obviously, but what many people may not know or visualize is that bigger aoe spells actually create situations where your whole screen is filled with 10 yard circles, further increasing its effect (take a 10 yard wide corridor for example and a spell like frozen orb or an dissentegrate beam) This is where the math becomes complicated and I sasume thats why you didn't include it.
You said it yourself, what limits AD is the 10 yards radius. Contrary to what you said, I think 10 mobs on average is being very generous, maybe not for a monk because monks can pull thus clustering them.. I'd say that for builds that can't cluster mobs AD is inferior to EHP. But for glass cannon types, AD is still damage, and more damage no matter how small it is, will always be better.
So, if your initial attack hits multiple targets, all of those initial hits cause separate area damage for all targets (assuming all hits produce area damage)? That's ridiculous. I did not know that is how the mechanic worked. I thought area damage was just how much extra damage is applied to a single attack that hit more than one target.
I only really play the game in bursts so I miss a lot of the patch notes and stuff. When was AD changed to not also hit the initial target? It did so when the stat was new and I tested it.
Does AD proc from slow time with delsere's bonus? I'm confused, because it counts as legendary gear bonus, that you mentioned in the beginning of the guide, or not?
Dunno if I got this right but he said Area damage cannot proc off AOE - meaning Archon Wizard doesn't benefit from it. But he says it's a key stats on his guide...
Do you think a pet build WD in 2.3 would benefit more or less from area damage? It would proc more just because of how many times your pets are hitting every second between them, but it would be harder to bunch enemies up.
+Tytus Hamilton Area damage is pretty insane with CarneJeram with DoD (and SMK). The piercing darts can proc area damage on several targets per shot, which also works with your dart-shooting pets now aswell.
+Tytus Hamilton Bit late to the party, but WD benefits massively from AD, not only for the pets, but in general since they have very strong single-target in 2.3 (5 pets shooting for the same as 23 pets did before + 18 pets meleeing for 130% your sheet dps) and clearing AoE whites/elites etc gives you more time on the RG! :D
+Aseroidify Problem with this... Pets are not YOU. So you as the source means pets shouldn't benefit AT ALL from your AD. Explain to me if I'm wrong but this seems to go against the description of the stat.
I wonder how Monk is going to fit this stat in, rolling a Monk automatically means 1 less stat choice on gear ala CDR-dependency issues for survability aka Epiphany.
You would never drop elemental damage on a piece of gear in exchance for AD though, right? If the elemental damage % is increasing the base dmg number for AD to scale off, we still want that base damage number as high as we can get it, right?
Hi Quin, I really like your videos. I've been playing D3 for some time now, but I don't know all of the intricacies. I'm wondering, Area Damage deals damage equal to how much Area Damage I have, but what is Area damage based off of? Right now, I have 15% area damage, so it will deal 15% damage based off of what? Forgive me if it sounds foolish, I just don't get it though.
I just watched your Vyr Archon Wizard build guide before this, because I was interested in testing out the new Vyr Archon build for a season character. The build has to be somewhat tanky to be viable. Is area damage important for that build? If so, then how many items would you recommend trying to get 20% area damage without taking away from the tankability of the build?
Forgive me for not being perfect and missing one line at the START of the video. I emphasize "start", because generally there is no juice at the beginning of his videos. With that being said, You don't watch with your ears dumb ass. I could have easily watched the video without hearing him make a single statement. Have a good day sir AND go fuck yourself.
HI Quin, may I ask you to make a new monk guide for patch 2.3?? And maybe you could compare dashing strike vs Ulinas Set?? Will dashingstrike still be compatitive?? Sorry for my bad english... i am from austria!!! Ps.: i love your videos.... Nice Job Boy....
I've been hearing that area damage both causes lag in multiplayer games and also doesn't work correctly for some reason. Can you tell me if the former is still the case or is area damage still a really good stat for AoE? As another aside, do you know a good formula, website, or way to calculate the relative value of stats (Primary, crit chance, crit damage, etc) without simply relying on the in game sheet? Thanks!
Zen Rix It never was. Some of the dmg multipliers like F+R, CoE (some others, not sure which ones exactly) didn't affect AoE so it was something you didn't go for...in 2.3 they changed/fixed it so it works properly now + pets can trigger it which brings WDs to different lvl.
1 EP can proc more then 1 areadmg proc right? so for example 1 ep goes off hits 2 mobs in a area of 10mobs u will get 18 more hits whit ur ep iff u have 100%area dmg? im i right?
thx for the video content! really benefit man! but.. i guess they will nerf area dmg as they did for everything before :( btw can i join your Juice clan ! what required for that! thx
Hey Quin C. Now I thought area dmg is fixed by patch 2.4. (But) last time i tryed Primäry monk with 150% area dmg and with the normal attacks (crippling wave fire) i crit for like 5-7 Billion . But i dont have the feeling that area dmg where proccing. So i Shut off the krit numbers ingame. (cause you said that area dmg never crits) and i watched a long time that white little tiny numbers but none of them came close to 5-7 billion they even hit only for millions. What schould i do? Is area dmg not fixed for monks or is area dmg now a yellow/golden number that crits or what is it.
That next level MS Paint action boys :D
it's Photoshop :o
So glad that i am sub on your channel Quin. Amazing work as usual !! Thank you very much for this!
They should add some more colors to the damage numbers, like say area damage for instance, make it orange or something. Damage from proc on legendaries maybe could be another color and so on. Maybe im just stupid but I think it would be cool to get a better visual on what is doing damage.
it does already turn orange at big billion crits
it does already turn orange at big billion crits
+Ca11mero It doesnt have to be big billion crits. Orange damage is the Top 5% crits (iirc) you have pulled in the past 5 seconds. So you will sometimes see that if you hit for 35 billion once, then 29 billion next hit, only the 35 billion will show up as orange, the 29 billion as yellow. This also works on lower numbers, replace the billion with million and you get the same result.
-Edit: Blizzard has a page up on "re-engineering combat numbers" when diablo 3 is selected on battle net. That is where I got my info.
+Jerstah phucku thankyou
Thank you m8; You must be the best guide maker of games of all times, Diablo is complex AS FUDGE, you're helping me GIT GUD.
Thank you for the detailed explanation, very useful. Keep it up Quin69 you are a beast!
i understood the principle, but seeing you operate with it in theory with the formula and showing the principle in praxis with the hitboxes was a very intuitive and practical way of explanation, well done sir!
Very great analysis! Allow me to be extremely difficult however and add some further calculation. My goal here is to help finding the ideal "x". I show below that "20" is almost impossible to attain for characters whose damage mainly comes from large AoEs.
The formula gets more complex if your initial attack hits w targets. Your expected total pre-AoE damage would be A*w, where A is average damage per target. The AoE damage would then be y * (x_1 - 1) * 0.2 + .... + y * (x_w - 1) * 0.2, where x_1, x_2, ..., x_w is the number of enemies within a 10 yard radius of each w targets.
So your damage increase ratio would be Sum(i from 1 to w) of y * (x_i - 1) * 0.2 / w = y * 0.2 * (1/w) * sum(i from 1 to w) of (x_i - 1) = y * (x_bar - 1) * 0.2, where x_bar is the average number of enemies within every 10 yard radius. Unless your attack hits the center of a blob that can't be all targeted, the enemies with the set of w targets more on the edge will have less enemies within their radius, dragging x_bar down from the ideal 20. So 20 is clearly an overshoot of your damage in most scenarios.
So if someone would want a thorough figure of damage increase from AoE, he'd have to look at the shape of his own attack, figure what w is from this on average, how big is the blob he can mass with respect to w, and then find x_bar according, which will be quite smaller than 20 in most cases. For almost any attack though, I'm quite sure a skilled/efficient player could maintain a x_bar of 10.
In short, the more AoE-based is your character, and the bigger those AoEs are, the further away from the ideal "20" x_bar will tend to be.
Definately explains where some of that WW Barb crowd clearing damage comes in, great guide!
A legendary item that would revolutionize area damage: Area damage now damages the initial target.
+Quin C (Quin69) some people are saying that area damage is bugged again, is it true?
Thank you for taking the time to do the math. And a bigger thank you for releasing your infomation about the subject
Can you backup your math into practice? a video with guide for gearing it ( what you would do ) and explain why its a better stat than x y z?
Thank you very much for taking the time to prepare and make this guide Mr Crawford.
Thank you for video. Exactly what I needed to know .
Nice guide. Thanks Quin! I knew AD is awesome since 1.08, but you just explained it in detail!!
What i wonder is, how the AD works on Gungdo Gear during explosion...
Awesome guide, Quin, the visuals were a good choice.
old and dad quin brought me here. great guide young quin tnx!
Hooray! Another video! Amped for 2.3 and I know YOU'RE eager to do the story considering you got through it in 10 minutes haha
Zombies and Skeletons are definately the dream maps, vs big fat mobs that take way too much space. great guide thank you
excellent guide - very precise and technical - thanks for making the video very helpful!
Thanks Quin! I have a carn doc and this video helped me tremendously. :D
Dude, you are just brilliant. math makes me sad I'm glad you do it for the community.
Professor Quin is in the building boys.
btw, when you use a area ability like f.e. multishot from dh, then u could proc ad from every monster in 10yard for every multi shot hit (with double dmg passiv), this procs doubled, cause its direct "double-cast" of the ability. So u could draw 2 10 yards areas to every mop. deleting 80% of the circles and probably have tons of damage ;)
Good video well explained but my issue with area damage generally is it helps you kill the enemies you have least trouble with. The big enemies and rift guardian are affected less. So the mobs you kill the fastest die slightly faster and those you take a while take even longer through sacrificed stats.
Thank you Quin, very helpful and informative.
Holy Shit... amazing explanation of AD. Thank you very much Quin C.
Great vid - first GRift run I got a hallway-style rift and couldn't even get 3 or 4 at a time on average. Second one busted my record - call it RNG, but bad rifts are just bad rifts. Running DH, 50% paragon, +40% on gear (2 pieces) and gave up 15%*2 (30%) of my main spender stat to do it. Seems to work just fine... thanks for the theory-crafting!
A few comments:
1. the percentage is calculated from as if you have no AD%... this exaggerates its usefulness. In fact everyone comes with 50% ad in paragon so the net effectiveness have to be divided by 1.5. For example, if you are thinking about whether you take 20% elemental or 20% AD on the amulet, assume you have 20% +elemental on bracer and no extra AD% outside paragon, then you actually need to consistently have 5*(1.5/1.2)+1=7.25 enemies in the 10-yard circle for it to be worth it. And each additional AD% affix you have get progressively worse.
2. Therefore I think it is probably sufficient to get 2 AD affixes from shoulder and weapon probably. This is because cdr, chc, chd do not get progressively worse. cdr is multiplicative with each other where as chd and chc even though add with themselves but they are multiplicative to each other. AD% and +elemental% are strictly additive.
Good guide for the noobs. Good job with the infographics and spreadsheets
Grait. i search so long for a good AD Guide. I´ve found it here. Thx. ^^
This was fascinating stuff. Great research dude. love watching your posts. Thank you very much for these. Hope you have a great new year :D
Thx Quin. Pls more of such videos !!!
thanks for the guide and thanks for the effort u put in, it realy helps a lot, you're the man quin
Great vid, thanks for the detailed explanation of AD!
Great guide, really liked the addition of graphics.
Thank you for explaining these things more clearly. Don't have time to research these things myself and there are really few accurate explanations how DH skills work, like when only main hand is used instead of total damage or both weapons. Now that i know AD is usable, all i need to test is that if it procs from rain of vengeance belt beast attack...
I think he said that exclusive stats from legendary items doesn't proc AD. Like his example in the video: Chantodos.
Seems to be so.
Great video Quinn! This helps a lot.
This guy Quiin69 dude, this guy looks like a GOD!
Thanks for the guide! 1 Question, there are skills in the game which indicates area effect dmg such as WD Confident passive, so the question is the following: Is there a grapic or addon help that can give me some aid about where exactly the end of that 25y ends?
It could be useful to see where the edges goes around me when i'am in the middle of the fight. I could re-arrange my position to stay in the middle of the fight so my enemies technically would surround me efficiently.
Thanks in advance.
I dont quiet understand how AD works wirh AoE spells for example grasp of dead (WD)
if you hit like 10 enemies with it can they proc AD towards eachother?
So, if i get it right, lets say i have a Sorc, using my primary (that chain lightning attack) into a bunch of enemys (lets just say 10 enemys get hit), each enemy hit will trigger the the AD check? Like every enemy [if they are pretty close to each other] will run through 9 AD checks?
While my Thunderfury proc will not trigger anything.
But if i get the items, that my chain lightning can hit targets more then once AND the item that givves 10 more bounces, it will check each enemy 18 times [If all enemys stay alive AND stay close to each other] since, it modifies my normal attack.
This is how i understood it.
-----------
OR would it simply mean, that only the first target hit from my Chain lightning would trigger the AD check?
Currently reborked on the PTR..patch goes live in 3 days not good indication..we'll need to re-test when it goes live for sure.
Thanks for the video, i still am like a noob on diablo 3, these videos are very helpful. I subscribed to your channel bc i see you have helpful videos. Thanks again :)
Quin awsome video! Just few questions... Area Dgm chance (20%) scales with skill proc rate you use? And another question, an "Area" skill (like WD Acid Rain) will have a chance to proc area dmg for every enemy you hit inside the AOE skill or just that one you targeted (or hit first)? Ty man
Hey Quin, great guide as always but one question is still not answered. Is it always 20% chance to proc AD or does it multiply by the skill proc-rate?
Great guide, any bets to how much for hydra build is good, I mean beyond the paragon point induced gloves + shoulders and offhand too much?
AAargh, my brain hurtses, thank you, so detailed, will watch it alots.
I love how you are using paint when you have photoshop open, and how you use paint instead of just using power point
_Don't bother the mastermind when his working on his cunning plan_, _mkay_!
Thanks man, great video to help understand AE value, also what's your streaming schedule like nowadays? keep up the good work !! :)
***** Cheers look forward to it :)
How do we apply area damage: with photoshop.
If a spell hits 20 enemies at the same time, does each one have a chance to proc AD to its surrounding.? I mean if I hit 1 monster close to another, there's 20% chance the other get AD, but If I hit both, do each one get the AD from the other? Meaning that If I hit 20 monsters they all send 10 yards AD to the 19 others?
each of the 20 monsters hit has its own individual 20% chance of proccing area damage in a 10yd radius around it. meaning in a best case scenario (however very unlikely) all the mobs can proc area damage and you will instantly clear the pack
thanks alot for the Video!! i have been asking me how that works for so long...
quin how many hours do you spend formulating or figuring these things out amazing info but its astounding that you have boiled all this down to a mathematical level. and were would on start to do all this on there own is there files in D3 that show damage out puts or code you can find to extract these numbers ?
to all my fellow hammer of the ancients barbarians out there - "in our case" area damage doesn't seem to work with bracers of the first men and the focus set ring. I think it's not working with the IK damage buff for us either. Think this won't be fixed anytime soon.
The conclusion? battlerage bloodshed as usual and area damage from paragon points, skip anything on gear and go for flat damage or survivability.
The one real question I have is what classes does this actually effect? Barbs DPS comes from set bonuses, Nat's DH is CR, Monks is set bonuses. WD pet build gonna become OP? What builds can support AD as a viable stat weight?
Great vid. What are the implication for Pets proccing AD now?
it would be a lot easier to understand if blizzard actually let us see our damage numbers at the end of a rift... (''you did x damage as area, x as crit, x as normal etc'')
my problem is getting AD along with CHD and CRC. often times im finding myself sac'n AD for one of those 2 stats. not to mention +dam or IAS. now, im not pro by any means, so im merely basing this off of the unreliable sheet dps. point is, i can hardly find the room for all my stats. because i always try to fit in (In-De-St, vit, AR, CRC, CHD, IAS, AD) then on helm, and jewelry i always have to be picky because we NEED those sockets for the gems, which is BS that leg gems only work on jewelry, AND that you cant use R-Gifts on jewelry.
Great video. I would like to ask you, does the area damage works if you cast meteor shower while using Etched sigil (wizard off hand weapon) ? I mean the auto casting from this legendary item. Thank you in advanced.
The question at hand is sac what dmg to kill champ packs quicker and how drastically is it gonna effect killing the rg.
I see some problems with your arguments:
1, To get a lot of enemies on a 10 yard area you need a really really good rift AND it has to be melee monsters. Ranged monsters noramlly split and then you wont get that many togehter. Maybe its really good when fishing for grifts to climb the ladder but for nomral speedfarms or save gem upgrading runs i dont think its worth it. In those really good grifts you dont really need it and it will only make you fail those with more spread monsters.
2. Doing the Math isnt that easy either. When you calculate dmg increase via rolls on Shoulds, Gloves, Weapons, Then you are going to miss others stats on those. Maybe on shoulders if you take area dmg istead of a defensive stat you can calculate those in, however on weapons and gloves you would loose another dmgageamplifying stat like cc, cd, agi, attackspeed, or the CDR that just is really imporant for some builts to even work. So your maindmg gets decreased, thus decreasing your overalldmg in comparison to not running area dmg for those other rolls when you have less than 6 monsters in the 10yard radius. So your calculations only whoe the dmg increase that you would get IF you would get those areadmg rolls for free. You should maybe do the math on stuff like "how is the damage done changed when you take area dmg instead of critdmg(etc) on gloves, how does the damage DECREASE for less than x monsters." The damage decrease is very imporant too i think to see if it really is worth in overalldmg. When you fight packs, at least the ast yellow dude will normally be alone, riftguardians are alone and as mentioned before in rifts with monsters that are spreading you often only have 1-3 monsters in a 10 yard radius of each other even with pretty high density.
I think especially for Ulianas you need lots of CDR rolls, you need at lease some defensive rolls, so you dont die between sevensidedstrikes and i would prefer to take rolls that always are good and not only in certain situations. However as I wrote in 1. i think it might be viable to use if you are fishing for certain higher grifts to climb the ladder. Then you would skip those grifts, where the area dmg would be as profitable.
Nicely done, thanks
then the question is what stat do you sac to get the area damage?
Andreas D If it goes for gloves get rid of att speed. Dunno for other items
Andreas D Ulianas BP monk has a lot of free areas for area damage because they use broken promises. Gloves don't need crit chance so Dex/CDR/CD/Area dmg . Weapons you need CDR/Mainstat/Area dmg, Shoulders can sacrifice vit or resis for area dmg. Then for the rings, you might even want to be swapping dex for area dmg. Along with paragons that's already 178% which is a stupid damage boost.
Does AD have any..visual efect? Animation, explosion anything? I always underestimated AD because of how i never really experieced it...
Oximo No, thats the problem why most ppl dont understand it. But u should see the damage it deals. But never payed attention to that though
Oximo No visual effect at all. Basically the only time you´re ever going to notice AD is either if you´re testing it, or if you´re building/built for it.
Oximo It got fixed on ptr, because it was not working properly. Thats why it was neglected.
Oximo Is there a damage counter or something for D3?
Johan Hederberg No there is not.
you said that AD does not proc from legendaries .. so it doesnt work for the 4000% dmg from crashing rain, right?
is this still all the same in season 22? :)
AD works better for group play as you get dedicated pulling, barbarians have become really good at that in 2.3
Good guide in general, but the number 6 isn't particularly relevant; it's just the point at which 1% area damage becomes equal with 1% direct increase in damage from any other skill - basically because you get an average of one proc every 5 attacks, you need 5 targets hit with area damage per proc to equal the damage gain. You said this in a roundabout way, but I think that people who don't understand the relevance of 6 enemies might overvalue the importance of the number (and hence over or, more often undervalue the stat based on the number 6).
Whether or not it is actually equal with another stat depends on how much of each stat you gain in that slot in comparison to area damage, specifically how many monsters, and so on.
Area damage is also far, far higher in variance than any other stat (sometimes you get 10 procs in a row, sometimes you get no procs in 10 attacks), and the variance doesn't decrease with increase in the stat like crit chance does - it's always going to be a 20% chance to have any effect at all. In general I think an increase in variance is usually a bad thing for consistency in clear speed, but area damage has the potential to be so ridiculously overpowered when it does proc that I think it's a worthwhile chance to take usually.
Quin, how does this go with the karleis point/HPS combination? Does AD proc on EACH monster hit by each of the 3 daggers, or only once per throw (where the 3 daggers are considered one throw)? (we're talking about the lightning rune for impale here of course, and lightning elemental dmg of course).
I'd only have AD from paragons and weapon, so it'd be 74%. I could re-roll vitality on shoulders to AD too, for an additional 20%, for a total of 94%, but that would leave me around 5k vitality and a bit fragile.
I also have a weapon with 5% IAS...that I can use. I'm holding off atm, trying to figure out which way would be better (I have 20% IAS on HPS quiver and max in paragon too). When I look at d3planner, the 5% IAS weapon brings me to FPA 25 for a 3.8% DPS buff over my current weapon.
d3planner doesn't seem to show the damage buff for AD in either sim or elemental DPS and I can't see anywhere where I've possible missed ticking a checkbox etc to include AD calcs...
help!
Nice guide, but i feel you forgot a crucial part. the 10yard box is a thing obviously, but what many people may not know or visualize is that bigger aoe spells actually create situations where your whole screen is filled with 10 yard circles, further increasing its effect (take a 10 yard wide corridor for example and a spell like frozen orb or an dissentegrate beam) This is where the math becomes complicated and I sasume thats why you didn't include it.
hey Quin! what do you think, how much AD you should have ! in my opinion sth about 100% is more then enough! but pls correct me if i am wrong=)
You said it yourself, what limits AD is the 10 yards radius. Contrary to what you said, I think 10 mobs on average is being very generous, maybe not for a monk because monks can pull thus clustering them.. I'd say that for builds that can't cluster mobs AD is inferior to EHP. But for glass cannon types, AD is still damage, and more damage no matter how small it is, will always be better.
So, if your initial attack hits multiple targets, all of those initial hits cause separate area damage for all targets (assuming all hits produce area damage)?
That's ridiculous. I did not know that is how the mechanic worked. I thought area damage was just how much extra damage is applied to a single attack that hit more than one target.
So blizz fixed the ad bug, thats great news. my palm monk with sunwukos/F+R will be like new born.
I only really play the game in bursts so I miss a lot of the patch notes and stuff. When was AD changed to not also hit the initial target? It did so when the stat was new and I tested it.
Does AD proc from slow time with delsere's bonus? I'm confused, because it counts as legendary gear bonus, that you mentioned in the beginning of the guide, or not?
you forgot to mention explosions like EP proccing multiple area damage effects, making clusters of area damage.
Dunno if I got this right but he said Area damage cannot proc off AOE - meaning Archon Wizard doesn't benefit from it. But he says it's a key stats on his guide...
Thanks for the guide fam guess its time to stack area dmg bois
Do you think a pet build WD in 2.3 would benefit more or less from area damage? It would proc more just because of how many times your pets are hitting every second between them, but it would be harder to bunch enemies up.
+Tytus Hamilton Area damage is pretty insane with CarneJeram with DoD (and SMK). The piercing darts can proc area damage on several targets per shot, which also works with your dart-shooting pets now aswell.
+Tytus Hamilton Bit late to the party, but WD benefits massively from AD, not only for the pets, but in general since they have very strong single-target in 2.3 (5 pets shooting for the same as 23 pets did before + 18 pets meleeing for 130% your sheet dps) and clearing AoE whites/elites etc gives you more time on the RG! :D
Aseroidify ty bby
+Aseroidify Problem with this... Pets are not YOU. So you as the source means pets shouldn't benefit AT ALL from your AD. Explain to me if I'm wrong but this seems to go against the description of the stat.
But they do. It's been proven numerous times in the /r/diablo3 or /r/diablowitchdoctors or something sub-reddit.
I wonder how Monk is going to fit this stat in, rolling a Monk automatically means 1 less stat choice on gear ala CDR-dependency issues for survability aka Epiphany.
You would never drop elemental damage on a piece of gear in exchance for AD though, right? If the elemental damage % is increasing the base dmg number for AD to scale off, we still want that base damage number as high as we can get it, right?
HI Quin,i want to ask when the barb activate the battle rage(bloodshed) ,let say the barb hitting mobs the battle rage will proc the AD or not
Hi Quin, I really like your videos. I've been playing D3 for some time now, but I don't know all of the intricacies. I'm wondering, Area Damage deals damage equal to how much Area Damage I have, but what is Area damage based off of? Right now, I have 15% area damage, so it will deal 15% damage based off of what? Forgive me if it sounds foolish, I just don't get it though.
+Albert Chyn Ah I get it now, just read an article.
Just another amazing guide :3 Quin is
I just watched your Vyr Archon Wizard build guide before this, because I was interested in testing out the new Vyr Archon build for a season character. The build has to be somewhat tanky to be viable. Is area damage important for that build? If so, then how many items would you recommend trying to get 20% area damage without taking away from the tankability of the build?
+Mortewynn Agarwaen he literally says you don't want it on chantodos wizard.... like right near the start. did you even watch??
Forgive me for not being perfect and missing one line at the START of the video. I emphasize "start", because generally there is no juice at the beginning of his videos. With that being said, You don't watch with your ears dumb ass. I could have easily watched the video without hearing him make a single statement. Have a good day sir AND go fuck yourself.
+Mortewynn Agarwaen Hope you are well M'Lady worrying about you
Mortewynn Agarwaen admitting that you're stupid is the first step. We are ALL proud of you.
HI Quin, may I ask you to make a new monk guide for patch 2.3?? And maybe you could compare dashing strike vs Ulinas Set?? Will dashingstrike still be compatitive??
Sorry for my bad english... i am from austria!!!
Ps.: i love your videos.... Nice Job Boy....
***** sweet! :-)
I've been hearing that area damage both causes lag in multiplayer games and also doesn't work correctly for some reason. Can you tell me if the former is still the case or is area damage still a really good stat for AoE? As another aside, do you know a good formula, website, or way to calculate the relative value of stats (Primary, crit chance, crit damage, etc) without simply relying on the in game sheet? Thanks!
nice guide, wtf didn't know AD was that good
Zen Rix It never was. Some of the dmg multipliers like F+R, CoE (some others, not sure which ones exactly) didn't affect AoE so it was something you didn't go for...in 2.3 they changed/fixed it so it works properly now + pets can trigger it which brings WDs to different lvl.
Make a build where the Main source of damage is from a Primary skill, see how far you can take it.
1 EP can proc more then 1 areadmg proc right? so for example 1 ep goes off hits 2 mobs in a area of 10mobs u will get 18 more hits whit ur ep iff u have 100%area dmg? im i right?
Razmus Lundqvist following this question... sss+ep+ad=monk4life right??? hahahah
netslave mind=blown
thx for the video content! really benefit man! but.. i guess they will nerf area dmg as they did for everything before :(
btw can i join your Juice clan ! what required for that! thx
what about crippling wave? dose AE procs on the focused target onlly or the whole pack that was damaged by it?
Hey Quin C. Now I thought area dmg is fixed by patch 2.4. (But) last time i tryed Primäry monk with 150% area dmg and with the normal attacks (crippling wave fire) i crit for like 5-7 Billion . But i dont have the feeling that area dmg where proccing. So i Shut off the krit numbers ingame. (cause you said that area dmg never crits) and i watched a long time that white little tiny numbers but none of them came close to 5-7 billion they even hit only for millions. What schould i do? Is area dmg not fixed for monks or is area dmg now a yellow/golden number that crits or what is it.
you think this AE dmg could be good to stack on a frenzy LoN barb?
I got a question. Does a Uliana's monk benefit from area damage or overall dmg increase on weapons ?
great explanation video.
Cuz i saw the Bar at the bottom, i thought youtube changed the HUD
Is area damage the same as the source damage? Like if you are using fire spells would the are damage also be fire dmg and put mobs on fire?
Is it also worth it to have in normal rifts as opposed to pushing high GRs looking for a dream greater rift?