Strange Fire Rebuttal - Who is John MacArthur?
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- Опубліковано 26 бер 2018
- This is the first of my three video series responding to the Strange Fire conference hosted by John MacArthur and Grace Community Church in 2013. In this video I show a few clips of what he said in that conference and cover a bit of his background.
Strange Fire Rebuttal Playlist - • Strange Fire Rebuttal ...
I'm Rod Saunders, founder of Jew and Greek. I’m a musician, web developer, and a student of philosophy and economics. I recently published my first book on Amazon entitled Defending the Faith: Word of Faith Apologetics. It’s a response to the numerous charges against and misrepresentations of the Word of Faith movement and theology. I also have a CD of original music on CD Baby entitled Gates of Pearl. “Jew and Greek” is a good name because the two civilizations that influenced Western civilization the most were those of the Judeo-Christian and Greek worlds. From the Jews we received our values and a monotheistic theology, and from the Greeks we got philosophy which brought us science, sports, the arts, democracy, and economics. As a result I discuss all of the above in this blog and in my videos.
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NOTE: At 00:49 I included an image that was doctored for a satire piece for The Babylon Bee. Apparently John MacArthur never appeared on The View. My bad.
If u made a mistake on that, what's the poi t of doing this?
I mean what's the problem, what's bugging you about him and his teachings?
Just like to know!
Thanks
@@kiralynorbert8472 The point of the video was not that John MacArthur went on The View. I didn't even mention it in the video. I just showed a brief image. Fact is he did go on Larry King many times. So I don't consider it that relevant that there's a couple of seconds where that image was displayed. If it was a substantial part of the video I would take the video down, but it's not.
@@JewandGreek Babylon Bee is my favorite!!!
Your misrepresenting MacArthur he dose not say all spiritual gifts have ceased he just dose not believe in apostolic gifts
@@saved6655 Given that the gifts of the Spirit I mentioned were in the context of the charismatic movement I think it was clear that I was referring to the supernatural gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12.
Your work is not in vain brother, Thank you so MUCH for taking the time to compose & post this. Many blessings in your heavenly account for this I'm sure
Thanks for the kind words. Be sure to watch the rest of the videos in this series. ua-cam.com/video/ybMB2hBVeHw/v-deo.html
Blessings!
"They stole the Holy Spirit." 😂 I laughed so hard. I know its not funny but the way he was so seriose just got me laughing. Great video thankyou!
Yeah, Johnny Mac be butt hurt I guess. Be sure to watch this one. ua-cam.com/video/GxXvtUbBB38/v-deo.html
@@JewandGreek Thankyou! Coming from a cessationist background, my church condemned Joel Olsteen also. I never even gave him a chance. I would aviod his books and videos and dismiss him as a heritic. Although I still struggle with my past thoughts, I see that he also has a heart for God. I see how he desires others to know Jesus as well. I don't really care for his teaching style, but I pray that God will release me from being judgemental and feeling self righteous. I used to look at him and think "at least I'm not that guy". God loves him and I see that he bears good fruit. I thank God for your channel because it helps me get clarity in areas that I am unsure of. May God use you for even greater things. Thankyou.
Sounds kinda south park
There is no such thing as the "Charismatic Movement." It's the way it has always been. Gifts have always existed throughout history as the normal.
I agree, but we use the word "movement" to designate a trend with a theological emphasis like the holiness movement, the ecumenical movement, the Latter Rain movement ..etc. When people talk about the Charismatic movement they're referring to the last 60 years when denominational Christians began seeking the infilling of the Holy Spirit and the supernatural gifts.
@Sola Scriptura I've done plenty of research. Which movement are you claiming was started by a mystic?
@Sola Scriptura another clueless numpty, you must be born again to be right with God.
@@MRFITTA Every charismatic would agree
@@nathannemeth4094 try this book. 2000 years of charismatic Christianity by Hyatt, Eddie L. Publication date 2002
I really appreciate these videos, thank you.
"a movement made largely of non Christians". MacArthur puts himself in God's place by professing to know men's hearts. Let's tell the truth, JM must know he is perhaps the most influential church man to divide believers in class warfare and Ill will. He needs to be reminded that to create discord among the brethren is one thing that God hates. Pray that God opens his eyes to not despise fellow believers, and to recognize the Unity of Diversity in the church. Johns glaring blind spots and sweeping condemnation toward charismatics are very evident. hiw about a little humility and love for the brethren, John? It's not to late to repent.
Well, Johnny Mac will say that he's not dividing the body of Christ, but he's identifying the body of Christ. That's really a distinction without a difference. By claiming to know who is saved and who isn't he in effect is putting himself in the position of Judge, and when a religious leader does that it is inevitably divisive.
Fringe antics, strong words, don't call the kettle black. What would you cook up? That all are to be accepted no matter the wonky doctrine, that you can't call out deceivers in the church like Paul did constantly not only naming names but purging the evil from amongst them like to beware the yeast of the Pharisees, there's many more biblical warnings against what you are trying to smooth over which makes me leery to listen to you any further. I come from a Pentecostal background, my father was a principal in a Christian school, when troubles arose there was little or no doctrine that held them in God's truth emotions ran rampant, it was who you liked more or who visualized himself as more filled with the Holy spirit and nothing to do with the bible or that we could even clearly know it. So the boiling pot of emotion did just that when there was controversy...... It boiled over with more emotion. Showing nothing more than man's centred power hungry, meology. My father being a fairly new convert was heart broken, he came out of Catholicism to Pentecostal, it pushed him to study the word passed the infant milk stage and into maturity, that's when he left the movement, I at 40 and family still have roots and things we enjoy in the Pentecostal church but we have ran to and embraced sound doctrine very evident if you have eyes to see and ears to hear what is actually spoken on paper over experiences feelings emotional and eventual chaos. Cessation of the gifts is kind of a cop out too to sort of lump all reformers together as the enemy, kind of like your word "fringe antics", like bereans we are to test everything according to Scripture, if it's not scriptural don't do it, for sure some things don't hold water with MacArthur, however a thought in closing, it's clear there will be cessation of some gifts because that's what it says, when I don't know, but I do know when I think without emotion and discern and dissect truth according to the word there are many false greed orientated, egocentric, lost men and women leaders in the charismatic movement, I mean it's so obvious that the secular world discerns them arrests them and dismisses them based on the circus they see, Jesus was not like this at all, anywhere you read about him in the gospels, that Jesus is a different Jesus than what's being taught now in charismania, it's unfortunate, I don't know where you stand but there used to be and still is sound Pentecostal believers who read their bibles and don't buy into the silliness of today. Are you one of those? I'll listen to one more clip and find out quick, if we interpret something different from another believer it has to be held to Scripture and I don't see any of that used here holding true to my perception of you, thanks to God and charismatic theology we were drawn to the word, thanks to the word and lack of doctrine in controversy we came away from Pentecostal church. Doesn't mean that some things are true taught us in that church.
@@stevijay2953 very well said
@@stevijay2953 Every denom has its leaning, strengths and weakness. Pentecostals emphasize things like freedom in the Spirit and strong worship like David. Yes it can go overboard like anything. Conservatives like MacArthur come dangerously close to limiting the Holy Spirit expression as a Cessationist.
When he says he doesn't have an mystical bone in his body, that is a telling giveaway that his spirit-man has not been developed (We are three parts, soul, spirit and body).
When he says the lead worshipper is the pastor, that is also very concerning as well. Worship is not the Word. They are both vital expressions that need to be maximized.
No, the conservative church is too stuck in wooden worship and needs to learn the spirit of Davidic worship.
Cessationism is a denial of the inerrancy of scripture.
It's based on very flimsy exegesis. I read McArthur's 'Charismatic Chaos' a good few years back. He even believes that the sign gifts will be restored during the restoration of Israel in the Tribulation Period. I'm dispensational myself but if they occur then, what's stopping them from manifesting as God wills in the church age? This has been borne out in every great revival where God has confirmed the preaching of the Word with supernatural signs following. I do have serious issues with hyper-charismaticism and unBiblical practices but cessationism is an indefensible gut reaction.
really enjoy your commentaries Brother.You bring such a healthy balance to the extremisms of Johnny Mac and JP as you so appropriately refer to them as.I grew up in a Methodist church where tongues and prophecy were non-existent.As I grew older I received the baptism of the spirit through a prophetic word received from a brother who at the time I didn't even know.Over the years I have seen physical healings, and seen what the power of the prophetic word can do.I have unfortunately seen things in the charismatic world that has sadden me.Do I thus discard the whole things.No.I have been involved in main conservative churches and left more than one service saying is this all there is. I been in other meetings where people are rolling on the floor rejoicing and felt like we were touching heaven. (exciting).When I heart you responding to these conservative calvinistic views with a healthy interpretion of scripture it is refreshing.
I am really confused. I keep hearing Justin Peters is radical. I don't get it.
I was shocked that John said you can still be saved after taking the mark of the beast. But I saw the clip, and he did say it and I wish he would correct that and match what the Bible tells us. It is clear, once you take the mark.....there is no way you are going to heaven.
What biblical supernatural things do they respect?????
Sorry...i may be being a bit think here but, if we are predestined to be saved then why repent? What happens if one repents then still goes to hell? I am understanding this correctly? I'm confused.😭
At 49sec , John is in the view w those ladies on that picture in ur video. For some reason I cant find the real footage.
I realy like to watch the show!
If it exist can u send it to me please?
If not, why r u doing this?
Thanks.
Okay, I dropped the ball on that one. Apparently that was a photoshopped image from a satire piece in The Babylon Bee. I took it out of Google Images without checking the source. My bad. Thanks for pointing it out.
You do realize if JP and JM are wrong ,when they stand in the presence of perfection, there just might be he'll to pay
Macarthur is incredibly DECEIVED.
The Lord Jesus is held up in all Charasmatics services. I 've been around these meetings for 43 years, served in the Far East for years. Jesus is Lord.
So if Calvanism teaches the elect are predestined to be saved. Why such an emphasis on calling out "false teachers." If the elect are meant to be saved and stay saved, doesn't that imply they can't be deceived? 🤔
Leonard Ravenhill on Cessationist Preachers (those that believe the gifts of the Spirit ceased):
“This is the day of a restricted and relegated Holy Ghost, even in fundamentalist circles. We are loose in the use of scriptural phrases, lopsided in interpreting them, and lazy to the point of impotence in appropriating their measureless worth. Mr. Preacher will wax eloquent in speech and in spirit, serving the Lord with vigor to defend the Bible’s inspiration. Yet that same man, a few breaths later with dead calmness, will be heard rationalizing that same inspired Word by outdating its miracles and by firmly declaring, “This text is not for today.” Thus the new believer’s faith is doused with the ice water of the preachers unbelief.”
There is one question I have for these predestination people. If certain people are predestined to go to heaven then why are you witnessing to anyone? Because according to them they are already born for heaven.
Their response is that they preach because they're told to preach in the Bible. They're just being obedient for God's glory.
The best thing about calvinists is they don't really believe in calvinism.
John MacArthur may be wrong about a lot of thing , but I agree with him on this subject.
@@dutchsheets9473 ok nigga
I can see why John is so critical of charismatic churches, holy spirit laughter for instance, I went to a church one time where the preachers wife and another woman started to laugh and ten minutes later they were on the floor rolling in laughter and the preacher could not even finish his sermon because of the disruption. I don't think that is the action of the Holy Spirit but rather the action of demons to disrupt the service.
Yes
Was it Hindu kundalini spirit ?
Prov 23v2
Smithers (Phil) Johnson should actually reasses if he's actually saved if Lordship Salvation is accurate.
I am weak right now,I believe in what this man is saying I have been battling the wrong teaching against the teaching of Kennith Hagen and many others who have been taught the truth of how salvation is obtained and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit,please Lord we are fighting each other about a free second act of Grace about the real Baptism of the Holy Spirit.that this humble man is trying to preach,When I was out there in 1982,God led me to Brother Hagins teachings,that kicked started me to Believe and receive,that which was useful in winning souls and seeing people Baptized in the Holy Spirit.Please Pray for me in this dark hour of wrong teachings thinking they are right on the money,when they don’t understand the manifestations of Gods only Holy Spirit.I am not against those that believe different I just pray they understand.God Bless you all.
These people get caught up in a emotional feel good,to them,drama...nothing wrong with teachingTRUTH,without all the emotional drama...it actually helps me...i can then really listen...i know what John mcauthor says,true,because I've been in these manipulating scripture drama centered churches...
Hebrews 1:2...if you wanna rely on extra Biblical nonsense that's your right. I stick with Mr MacAuthur and Steve Lawson and Voddie Bachman ect..the ones who study the ancient texts and yes have the Holy Spirit to teach them. Even though they don't believe in what you say is the gifts. Jesus is The Word made flesh. I will stick with sola scriptura.
Were Paul, Timothy, and Silas relying on extra-biblical nonsense when they were forbidden to preach in Asia and Bithynia by the Holy Spirit and led in a dream to travel to Macedonia? After all, Jesus has said to preach the gospel in the uttermost parts of the earth. Following sola scriptura we should either all be preaching the gospel everywhere on the planet, or maybe none of us should preach in Asia or Bithynia today because the bible said not to, but most of us with common sense realize that there's general bible doctrine that applies to everybody and then there's specific direction that the Holy Spirit gives to all of us individually. Jesus told the disciples to tarry (or wait) in Jerusalem until they were endued with power from on high. Does that mean that we're all supposed to go to Jerusalem and wait? No. Those were His instructions for them. Hebrews 1:2 doesn't mean that God doesn't speak anymore. The author was just contrasting the Word of God that came through the prophets of the OT with the revelation that came through His Son in his day. Don't take it out of context. Read Heb. 1:1 along with it. When Charismatics employ gifts of the Spirit like prophesy and the word of knowledge, they're not adding to scripture. They're following scripture in yielding to the Holy Spirit to edify the body of Christ and further the work of the Kingdom.
Nice list of teachers. 👍🏽
Contrasting cessationsts and charismatics then caricaturing your least favorite team is dishonest. Every description MacArthur gives of charismatics and hyper charismatics looks pretty accurate from my 20 years of experience. He also states there are many genuine Christians in the movement. I would heartily agree. There is an element of Charismania evident in these churches that needs to be addressed. Michael Brown, an Assemblies of God Charismatic, has also written books offering a corse correction away from these distracting and unbiblical elements.
Jew and Greek
The Bible is evidence that God never wanted us to be lead through abstraction or subjectivity. Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet, How can a young man keep his way pure?, thy word is *TRUTH*...
Dreams, vision casting, vision boards, numerical abstraction, emotional prompting, confusing and abstract prophetic instructions? I’d prefer the Word of God. The dreams may come and go. The Word of God does not return with empty promises or vagaries.
Agree mam. They more dan credible Dan dos who believe in Der extrabiblical belief
Michele Rivera Excalty true sound doctrine is cardinal, and Pastor John MacArthur is very spot on and is very very serious on the doctrine of the Holy Spirit, and I respect how he teaches God word with such authority as it should, cause the seriousness of the heresy of the Holy Spirt is not being taken serious by these charismatic movements and he has to excuse discernment, with the word of God, cause those false teachers are not going to do it. He cares for those poor souls that are being deceived.
Please address his comments recently about Beth Moore should “go home”
Aaron James go home.
@@colleenjohnstoncomedy3036 why are you telling him to go home? Respectfully and out of love, Scripture is very clear women should not teach and Paul says why he goes back to creation. Read 1 Timothy 2 it’s very clear
@@saved6655 Beth Moore shouldn’t have a ministry ? If you say so. John MacArthur shouldn’t have had a woman preach at his church on a Sunday if he feels so strongly (yes he did, Joni Erickson Tada look it up). JM owed BM a big fat apology but he never did. He’s a proud man. I think the Bible has a lot to say about pride too.
@@colleenjohnstoncomedy3036 not once has she ever preached in the congregation or taught men. You have to prove biblically women can teach in a church setting the Bible is clear they cannot. You cannot override scripture with human philosophy. The Bible says women can’t preach then that’s it women can’t preach. You have to prove he’s prideful and do it in a biblical sense, not in Colleens mind but biblically.
@@saved6655 if you say so. Must be so burdensome for you to be right all the time and have to correct people biblically. Thank goodness there’s so many people like on your team righting all the wrongs. Well done (slow clap 👏🏻) well done.
You should really consider teaming up with Dr. Michael Brown.
I am starting a podcast in a few weeks and have already arranged to do an interview with dr. Brown. I checked out your Channel. Are you Word of Faith friendly?
@@JewandGreek I am, I am a charismatic that believes there is some abuse in the movement as Dr. Brown states in his book Authentic Fire nevertheless, It's not about the prosperity If you have your eyes on Christ Mathew 6:33 Please correct me if I'm erred I'm 16 and learning
@@biblicalthinker2.083 No problem. I came into the Charismatic movement when I was about your age. I didn't know much but I started learning and I'm still learning today over 40 years later. The reason I asked is you have a video equating WoF with the Prosperity gospel, which I think is a misconception. Kenneth Hagin was the leader of the WoF movement and he had a balanced view on prosperity and actually opposed the extremism from the televangelists. You should watch my videos on Word of Faith 101 and The Bible and Prosperity.
@@JewandGreek Yeah I did that video when I was 15 my fist video,I commented about it to my youth group leader and he said my view was narrow and naïve So I've definitely become more ambiguous when it comes to those things but if my Lord wills I will keep producing content for my Lord. I would appreciate it if you can keep me up to date or inform me if I'm erred, again I'm still learning. Thank you for taking your time to read this and replying to me. God bless you.
Yes, I'm stunned that he told PPL they can take the Mark and still be saved
Funny how John Macarthur claims we are to let Jesus be Lord of our lives, which is true, but doesn't accept there is power in the name of Jesus and the blood he shed on the cross.
Annd before his fan club starts, I have listened to tons of his material, so Im well versed in the 'gospel' according to Johnny Mac.
As for Phil Johnson, well, the less said the better.
If you think , the gifts, of the holy spirit have ceased, all I can say, is buckel your seat belt , you haven't seen nothing yet.
Amen,to last comment...ivese churches...one li been in the been in,I was so scared this lady looked possed...she tried over and over to push on my back...i had no idea what was going on...
She kept try to force me say jibbrish, I kept sauing,our father who art in heaven..
I had to go there,due to corcumsyance,but li didn't stay.....then another time,I didn't even know what church was about,lady kept tell me,cuz I wasn't praying that strange jibbrish she said just say, SCOOBIE DOOBIE do,of I had to...i got out of there...many women in these churches noce,but many,who live in city now, have a proud proud very Bessie way about them...i didn't even know what was happingning, my holy spirit said,run,and stay away....i am like commenter below...
..
Do you record your videos from prison ? Your profile picture looks like a mugshot.
So to be successful in Christianity I need a bible where my name is on the cover and where inside my thoughts are more voluminous than Jesus's. Noted ✅
I dont know why anyone even listens to John MacArthur (self appointed theological pope) sheesh.
Church in Corinth: Speaks in tongues incorrectly.
Paul: Only 2 or 3 at a time, Take turns, and you must interpret!
Charismatics: Whoever God moves, when you are led by the Spirit, and we can't interpret because it's now a prayer language because conveyance.
Not really sure what you're trying to say, but it seems like you're making an anti-charismatic comment ... as in "charismatics aren't following Paul's directions for tongues". That's not really relevant to the content of this video, because John MacArthur's position is that the tongues at Corinth were pagan babbling rather than actual human languages.
@@JewandGreek I don't think that tonges at Corinth were not supposed to happen. I am saying it was not being done the right way. I am a practical cessationist, but I am completely okay with Carasmaticks speaking in tongues if they follow Paul's instructions. But it seems to me that not many people today prioritize interpretation or even any order at all.
Read ch 14 very methodically. There is a difference between the gift of diverse tongues and praying in the spirit and unknown tongues.
I don’t understand why it is so difficult for you to accept that you were DEAD in your trespasses and sin. You played no role in your salvation, if you are indeed saved. I suppose it’s a pride thing. If you find yourself in heaven someday, make sure you tell everyone how wise you are for realizing your condition and getting yourself saved. I’m sure everyone will want to hear that story. Good luck to you.
He doesn’t like it because it isn’t under his militaristic control? Or fits into his dad’s view of discipline and acceptable social norms… #psychology
I believe this man has something to say...I think we better listen up.
If this is what John McArthur believes
Then
He needs to repent and turn to Jesus for the sin of Blasphemy.
.
Genuine Gifts of the Holy Ghost exist
The Devil
Has also come up with his false-counterfeits gifts of the Holy Ghost.
.
#The fake ones have erased the genuine ones.
#The Holy Ghost is still blessing people the gifts of tongues, interpreting tongues, prophecy, miracles, healing, teaching, etc
.
.
VERSES
1 Corinthians 12, 13 and 14
And
Joel 2 v 28-32 and Acts 2
Sorry but people shaking their head violently like some head bangers at a hard rock concert is not of the Holy Spirit. The screaming incoherent words out of their mouthes is not the gift of tongues. Paul states God is not a God of disorder but of peace. That behavior in Jesus days would have been treated as demon possessed. Tongues are meant as a sign for unbelievers not believers. When anyone speaks in a tongue, two or three at the most should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. It must be prophecy. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God. My church openly encourages praying in the spirit but only a handful including the pastors pray like that and I myself including others feel uncomfortable because we do not. That as Paul states is not edifying the church. I’m still seeking guidance and revelation from God thru prayer on this gift.
As I stated in the video, the Strange Fire conference presented the excesses as the norm. I'm not defending extremism and error. I'm defending the greater Pentecostal/Charismatic world from the misrepresentation of their critics. As for the rest of your comments. I address them in my rebuttal to Tom Pennington. ua-cam.com/video/dEr6TEMQUko/v-deo.html
Wow ethrial, well spoken because that's what is written in the word, see my last response to another comment, it's like you because of discernment in the word. All believers or born again believers have the Holy spirit at justification, when we became saved, there's nothing intimidating about that, he is visible in us by our fruit rather than fluff or experiences or a showing, our fruit if biblical and good as opposed to bad and Holy Spirit producing fruit this edifys those around us and not ourselves as you pointed out, that it's orderly, he's not the God of confusion. If you have truth which it appears you do, because I can't see your fruit, if you have been born again, you've repented and put your trust in Jesus, you are a new creation in Christ and the Holy Spirit resides in you, every time you pray, and God listens to those who are his, your prayer is every much as heard and as sincere and as accepted as someone who goes on and on and sounds amazing. In fact many times God doesn't hear those who are like repetitive gongs, noisy cymbals, they care more about there outward appearance than they do God. Powerful prayer life, if consistent and with intent to bring him glory and not you, is done mostly in silence, you laying out the desires of your heart which is also the reflection and character of God's, because of the Holy Spirit in you! : ) love your discernment! So seek God wholeheartedly from the Scripture!
You are correct about shaking their heads like head bangers; but what is equally important is the joy of the Lord. From what I've seen of the people that John MacArthur associates with, they don't have it. I don't think think all that TBN has to offer is perfect. But I think they exhibit more trueJOY than the group John MacArthur hangs out with. Please don't create a spin on what I've said. You don't have to swing from chandeliers or roll around on the floor. I'm talking about The joy of the Lord is my strength.
@@PaulBunyun1954 man judges by outward appearance, but God knows the heart
@@PaulBunyun1954:
want to be introduced to my family ? we love Gods word and love pastors sermon.
Joy of your salvation is not in how you act or behave. it is in the Holy Spirit who lives in you .
but according to your logic, you see a comedian and you probably think they have more joy than a charismatic pastor because they laugh more?
I’ve heard all these pastors say we are saved by grace alone, by faith alone, in Christ ALONE. You took what he said out of context.
I didn't take him out of context at all. I let him speak for himself in that clip. I could show you other clips where he says similar things, including one where he says that salvation is a result of what you do. Sure, he claims to believe in sola fide, but he contradicts that with his Lordship Salvation rhetoric.
Yeast of the Pharisees... this is who Jesus was talking about
@@dutchsheets9473 I Dont think so
Heaven and earth will pass away before anything in the Bible will.
If John MacArthur thinks that there is no apostle then he should stop calling himself Pastor
John Macarthur seeks Paul and Peter and James and Titus and *NOT JESUS*
In some respects John MacArthur acts like a Catholic pope speaking as if he's the only one that can interpret the Bible. He will even tell you whether you're saved or not solely based on his opinion of whether he likes you while negating scripture that says, "He that calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Then, just like a cult, he begins saying that God ought to be striking them down with fire, (so he even thinks that Go i's not doing things right) that's the level of his audacity. John MacArthur talks out of both sides of his mouth, one day telling you the sovereignty of God decides everything and ordains everything through Calvinism and the next day saying that God's not getting it right because the Pentecostals aren't struck down with judgment and fire. The Holy Spirit spoke well of these men in the Bible where Paul said, "Instructing those that oppose themselves...." Yes, that's John MacArthur, he constantly contradicts himself. I have seen the working of the Holy Spirit and experienced the gift of tongues as well as many other gifts including prophecy and healings and miracles in our family. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. . He is still at work, praise God! All glory to Jesus. What does John MacArthur have but old dead & dried up religion?!
Well his is Right ... like it or not ....thank God for Pastor John MacArthur he excuses expository teachings and his reformed theology and sound doctrine on scriptures is TRUTH. And whoever can’t seen that needs to examine themselves. (2 Corinthians 13:5)
And who are you and why would I listen to your opinion. ? I got rescued from this charasmatic chaos. And I thank God for using these men to call out such deceptions. You can 't rebuttal from scriptures just your opinions. Continuing in following charasmatic doctrines is very dangerous to your eternity. Take my advise and get some expository teachings, stick to solo Scriptura not feelings and goofy " manifestions".
I don't know what video you're commenting on. This video was basically an introduction to Johnny Mac's history, ministry and theology. I did very little commentary on theology here. To answer your question, I'm a guy with an opinion, just like Johnny Mac is a guy with an opinion. Many people have thanked me for pointing out the flawed reasoning and analysis of people like Johnny Mac on this channel, and they could offer the same tribute to me. It sounds to me like you're a part of the cult of personality. By the way, sola scriptura isn't found in the Bible. Yes, the Word of God is our foundation for all matters of doctrine and practice, but God gave us the Holy Spirit to be our helper, and one way He helps us is by speaking to us in our daily lives, and showing us "things to come". (John 14:16; 16:13)
Jew and Greek - Indeed, Sola scriptural sounds right, but in practice is used by many to quench the Holy Spirit.
@@milah24 haven't read one of JM books, work on your prophetic gifting smh....
@@milah24 I do his study series with an open Bible and my journal if you really care to understand. He is an Expository teacher. Please, move on. Thankfully your opinion of what you don't know about me personally, ( I didn't make a you tube just a comment on someone who made a you tube) will not matter one bit when I stand before God.
You can take excerpts of what John said, but without the questions he is responding to and allowing us to hear all his answer, your point is pathetic.
I don't know what you're referring to. These weren't answers to questions I quoted. These were excerpts from his books Charismatic Chaos and Strange Fire, along with video clips from The Gospel According to Jesus and the Strange Fire conference.
I normally don't say this about people; but the people that John MacArthur associates with are somewhat weird. They talk the word but lack the joy of the Lord. Absolutely no sense of humor. I'm not saying the Christian should be laughing constantly but there something MISSING. You tell me.
I agree, they come across quite cold and legalistic.
They are very passionate about the Lord. If you really follow them they have the joy of the lord for sure. They also have over 70 Q & As on their channel. Just watch one and you’ll see. They just aren’t there to entertain, they are teaching.
You are absolutely wrong. You picked out small excerts from that meeting. I watched the whole thing and he did not talk about spiritual gifts he was specifically talking about the cult behavior of videos they showed. Shame on you
What are you even talking about? This video was just an introduction to Johnny Mac the man.
I think you need to understand what Cessationism means. It's particular to the miraculous gifts, not the rest.
You have also created false narratives and stretched what he said.
At what point did I indicate or suggest a different view regarding cessationism from what you stated? How did I stretch what he said?
Saunders an apologists for all these charismatic weirdos. He needs to debate one on one not hide behind UA-cam.
Who is hiding behind UA-cam? You see who Mr. Saunders is and he is not hiding from anyone. Furthermore, UA-cam is the debate arena and no one is hiding behind anything. Why not ask Justin Peters why he hides behind UA-cam? Why not ask him the same questions? Your accusations are not valid! What makes you think that these guys are even willing to debate? "Charismatic weirdos" as you you put it shows your true bias. You are not concerned with truth!
Marcus Curtis Music I don't see Sanders requesting a debate one on one. Do you? No I didn't think you did peckerhead
Once again your name calling and tone shows your true spirit. That is a great way to spread the gospel. Call people names that you disagree with. It really lends to your credibility sir.
Marcus Curtis Music their actions merit names to describe these heretics! What do you call them "little gods?" Man they are suckered you in!
... send me some gold dust and some angel feathers?
Ernesto Ybarra that response right here shows from where you speak. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God.
Chopping video segments and putting words here and there just proves how deceptive the charasmatics movement is. This discredits what was actually said during "the strange fire meeting", but that's typical of unbiblical professing Christendom.
1.No one has ever refuted Calvinism.
2. Jesus said, "narrow is the way and hard is the way".
You're accusing me of deception because I produced clips rather than the whole video? That's pretty lame. Who would sit and watch an hour of Johnny Mac's nonsense other than his devotees? The edits were only done for the sake of brevity. There's no misleading going on. Feel free to prove me wrong.
@@JewandGreek
If John Mac preaches nonsense then why did we have twenty centuries of no recorded gifts, prophecies or tongues throughout church history? Please read the book by Arnold Dalimore on Edward Erving (Banner of Truth). This book traces the commencement of the charasmatic movement and its bizzar teachings that were unheard of prior to the end of the twentieth century. Name one scholar that is charasmatics? The doctrines the church established during the reformation have never been refuted. Is there a Calvin, Whitfield, Spurgeon, Augustine, Edwards, etc, etc, amongst the charasmatics? Test the spirits my friend, that's what you are commanded to do.
@@michaelcipriano1713 Didn't John Macarthur say if you take the mark of the beast, you can still be saved? Doesn't scriptures teach otherwise? That's nonsense. No way around that buddy. And we don't need scholars to be charismatic in order to prove these gifts still exist or don't exist. Which scholar can lead you into everlasting life? None! That's only Jesus, so stop looking at scholar to justify anything, they don't interpret the Bible, that's only God. Second, there's no way for me to tell if these gifts happened in the earlier centuries and weren't recorded or if they happened at all, I haven't done much research on that to know. And just because you show a book that shows on view, that again doesn't justify anything. If there are books that refute and respond to that book, would you simply ignore because your biased to only one view. And all those great writers you've named, aren't they calvinists? Calvinism has been refuted and debunked many time by both armenians and former calvinsts, now what? Does that suddenly make it false (though I believe it's false as well as many scholars). The point is to stop looking at things from a biased perspective because they can be refuted also. Nonetheless back to the gifts and charsamatic movement, the things you pointed out again doesn't mean these gifts aren't for today. I've heard testimonies of people who received these gifts and never believed in them before and I've also heard of testimonies of these gifts from close friends and no doubt I believe them 100%. Who am i to say that was completely of the devil and it's not genuine at all.And who am i to question that position. I'm a continuationist, and while i don't have gifts like prophecy and tongues, I believe they exist. And i also believe there's an abuse to these gifts and there are demonic and evil spirits that acts as these gifts. Not all spirits are from God, and we do need to make discernments. But I still believe in them because i've seen God work in lives supernaturally, it's hard to explain in words. Just because you see a bad representation of it doesn't mean, it's bad in and of itself. And weather your a contiontionist or cessationist, that doesn't affect your salvation. And if you try to defend one view and say it's biblical, best believe the other side can also be defended biblically. I've heard both sides and both claims.
@@righteousroad8680
Ah Yes, correct John MacArthur did say this. The Biblical point of view is this, and l will quote Jesus: all manner of sins shall be forgiven men, except blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. Please demonstrate to me where it is written that there is no forgiveness if one receives the mark of the beast. If someone receives this mark, hears the gospel, repents, does he receive condemnation from God?
Second, regarding the gifts, a pastor once said to me, isn't it strange how some people in this movement believe in Post millenialism, some are Pre millenial, and some are A millenial. Also there views on the Rapture, seven years tribulation all differ. Why is that? Why doesn't a tongue or prophetic word from God just tell them which one it is?
Oh and just one more thing, tongues have been tested. There are examples of people having this gift being placed in a room with up to ten people claiming to have the gift of interpretation all asked to sit down and individually write down what the tongue said. And you know what my dear friend, they came up with ten different interpretations!
There are two books l highly recommend you read, 1. Signs of the apostles, by Walter Chantry - Banner of Truth. 2. Counterfeit Miracles, by B.B Warfield - Banner of Truth.
Michael Cipriano
Revelation 14:9-10 New International Version (NIV)
9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
This verse clearly says one who takes the mark will not be saved, so what John is teaching is actually heretical and un scriptural. Now your comment on if a person can still be saved even if they take the mark and repent, only God knows that answer, so there is no answer to that from our perspective, we’re just going by what the scriptures is saying. And it’s clear on what it’s saying.
And once again you keep mentioning pastors to justify your reason to why it doesn’t exist. Give me scriptures to back up your point, not what a man has to say about something . And about the book you mentioned about the counterfeit Holy Spirit, I actually have a book that talks about counterfeit Holy Spirit gifts...and it’s written by a continuationist who also speaks in tounges. Please notice your only giving biases sources, all what can be refuted and shown a different argument counter to the main arguments. But because people can’t use scriptures to back up what’s they’re saying, of course they go to people or other sources to prove their biased views. And of course, sometimes the Holy Sprit is limited because religion tends to do away the power of God. Keep your cessationnist views to yourself brother and stop trying to give us sources for us to check out to refutes our claims, when at the same time I can also give you sources that refutes cessationism and Calvinism theology. But now suddenly your right and I’m wrong right? That video stand fires was so arrogant, how can someone say most of the people aren’t even saved, I thought only God knew 😂😂 man the ignorance of some people. And btw, they were saying the little things that happen in Charismatic churches like barking or some of the extreme things they mentioned, yes many continuationst don’t agree with these things nor follow them or operate in them, but in the video it was saying that was the typical norm in those churches which is not. It just goes on to show the ignorance of those people and the arrogance they have, hey claiming to be Jesus Followers. And we also refute and rebuke prosperity gospel and prosperity preachers.
And a very bad man