Should You Buy A Used Linn LP12 Turntable?
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- The legendary Linn LP12 Sondek! Perhaps you own or aspire to own an LP12. Here's an insight you won't find anywhere else as Lou shares his experience and recommendations with used Linn LP12's and more!
0:00 Intro
0:37 LP12 Upgrades
2:42 StackAudio Chassis
4:23 The Fun Begins
5:55 Pure Fidelity Turntable
6:20 Go New Or Used?
6:54 Inside The LP12
8:04 More Fun: Parts
9:28 Oh Sh*t
10:52 Grace G-707 Tonearm
14:55 Final Thoughts
audibleelegance.com
www.linn.co.uk/us/turntables
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stackaudio.co.uk/product/sopr...
#turntable #hifi #audiophile #vinyl #vinylcommunity #linn #purefidelity #stereophile #theabsolutesound #lp12sondek
I grew up listening to my fathers LP12 and he loved it. Now that he passed im trying to see if i can restore it in his honor. Thanks for this 🙏🏾 its a learning experience
For starters, watch all the videos, particularly the LP12 from hell series. While it does not apply to a stock LP12, some things will prove useful. Then, watch the LP12 from Heaven. That one was a beautiful stock table.
Thanks for commenting. Most appreciated. Good luck with fond memories!
That was Epic Lou. What a project.
Yep, sure turned into one. But, I'm sharing why I believe others should not attempt it. In reality, the table is nearly 40 years old. It turned into a project like restoring a car. Same deal.
I find it hard to believe you have only 518 subscribers! (Well 519 now I guess since I have just subscribed).
I am thinking of buying a used Linn LP12 over here in the UK and I have to say this video gave me more of a reality check than any other I have watched on the subject. Your last comment - I would rather put a loaded 45 to my head - summed up the endeavour entirely. Many thanks.
Errol, thank you. I try to be honest and give a "matter of fact" view on things. I intend to do further reviews on the Linn LP12 more from the "watch out for this" than anything else. As a Yank who has rebuilt several MGs, I have come to really appreciate exactness in both design and the requirement not to "be creative" so to speak. I also have Julian Vereker's (Founder of Naim) expression forever stuck in my head "Return it to spec" when confronted with a modified Naim product sent in for service.
By the way, Errol, also take a look at my blogs on our website of www.audibleelegance.com. I did one on used cartridges that I think will help you understand a bit more about my hesitation of dismounting that used Grace cartridge. Trying to be cheap can come at a real price.
If you’re still considering buying a used Linn LP12 May I recommend you contact Peter Swain at Cymbiosis, he’s a very well regarded expert on all things LP12. He will probably be able to supply you a properly set up LP12 assembled from quality second hand parts that will exceed your expectations and give you a lifetime of fantastic music.
I too was looking to buy a used LP12 here in the UK, I think I may forget that.
Good video Lou ! You nailed it. Hope you get the table up and running soon 😊
I hope so too. Still awaiting word from the owner about replacing the phono cartridge so more games can continue.
Great video. Looking forward hearing what the customer answered !
Be nice to see a continuation video seeing how this ended up.
@@tonyjedioftheforest1364 I agree. I am most curious about the results as I will be able to put it into perspective to a new Rega table particularly with the Stack Audio subchassis. But, in all fairness to Stack, it's a really old arm, you know?
The LP12 is my current best sound memory ever, couple with an Adcom Gfp-565 preamp and Canton Ergo active speakers back in the 80's
Soon I will introduce a couple of LP12s that were a delight to work on. I called them LP12s from heaven. And my final video on this one will be entiteld "Bringing the LP12 from Hell back from the Dark Side." There are many LP12s out there which are a great bargain and then, there are some, which are not. In a day where people are preying on names, and not worthiness, I am inclined to warn people so that they look only at the good ones and pass on the trash. I very much like LP12s but there are some that, quite frankly, should be left alone and if used, at all, for what they are.
Being English I know what top equipment is like but your wisdom is priceless....cheers.
Thank you for taking the time to comment on our channel. Please be so kind as to tell others about this video and the 120 others that we have done!
Very informative video. As a former 16 yr. Sondek owner who bought a late 80's model used in the early 90's I agree with your observations. The table as you stated can sound very good but it's also a pain in the ass in terms of getting the best performance and to a fair degree you're dependent on access to someone with the experience, tools and skills to work on the table. Also the upgrade path can be seen as a boon or madenning 😀 As you stated much has changed having looked at the undersides of an early 80's LP12 next to a more recent Majik LP12. The early 80's table look almost agricultural in comparison underneath. Perfromance wise IMO the Majik wasn't worth the $ especially with the Pro-ject sourced arm. I've heard the top Klymaxx LP12 twice and it's impressive but around $40k now. In the $4-6 range I think they're a number of tables that outperform the Majik level Sondek.
Thank you very kindly for an equally informative response. Having just received the Rega Naia turntable, I'm not quite sure what else a $40,000 LP12 can bring to the table, so to speak. While the Naia is not inexpensive either, I wonder with Linn and other companies if the pricing is not so much performance as it is pricing to establish the exclusive "you have arrived" marketing concept.
To make matters worse, in my observations, like many "vintage" products, the prices have been sucked upwards for really no legitimate reason other than the price of new similar products has been inflated. The concept of "just like" really does not work when you consider 20 to 30 years of wear and tear along with engineering improvements.
As for tables in the 4K range, I will go with your opinion on this as I have not heard a new Linn LP12 in years.
I too would recommend a new Majik LP12 over an older used one. The reason for this is that the Karousel bearing has disrupted the used market. The Karousel is so good and so fundamental. I've priced used LP12s with Cirkus bearings. Once you add the cost to upgrade to Karousel, the Majik LP12 which includes Karousel becomes a better value.
Thank you so kindly for adding this valuable bit of information. The saga of the "Linn Turntable from Hell" continues with battling the Grace Tonearm lead. It's now turned into a brutal comedy and I wish I had the wit of John Cleese to finish it off.
If you have not subscribed, please do and tell others about this channel and please, please continue to make your observations. They are constructive and insightful.
@@audibleeleganceincI am now subscribed. By the way, my Linn LP12 is from 1975 (SN 14xxx). Bought it used from a friend about 33 years ago. It has been brought up to Klimax level. The oldest upgrades are the Keel sub-chassis and Ekos SE tonearm from 2018. But I still consider it a 1975 turntable by virtue of it playing music since that year.
Glad to see a vintage linn being resurrected. I don’t agree with your conclusion of buying new versus second hand. I’v been on a Linn journey for the last 10 months and it’s been brilliant.
I fitted the Stack base board, the Stack Alto sub chassis and armboard, Vinyl Passion PSU, new Circus bearing, new custom arm cable, new AT moving coil cartridge, new Linn springs and new belt. Total cost for what is essentially a brand new deck, £4,000. New deck from Linn using the same cartridge, £10,000.
This turntable astonishes me every time I play a record.
The key distinction, however is that it is a passionate hobby for you where you can take your time to step through the mine field. It's like people who build their own speakers. That's fine. But if you consider your time, which as a business I must, it all falls apart pretty quickly. Congrats on your efforts. By the way, that was an 80s table that I worked on, not something more recent.
@@audibleeleganceinc Sure, all good points. The last upgrade was the sub-chassis, so it all had to come apart again, as you said. Because it is a 1990 vintage deck with a Linn Akito arm, there was no faffing with the cross-brace. I invested in a jig too, so the time was in line with what you were expecting, not what you actually spent in the end.
You’ll be pleased to know I also invested sensibly in a high quality phono stage. Otherwise the cartridge upgrade would have been pointless, of course.
Who did the work thanks
@@johningham4219 all done by myself using a suitable jig, some instruction from Linn via UA-cam and many hours of research into user reviews of the parts they chose. The cable I also made myself, as I do with all of my cables, using similar Mogami stock that Linn uses for their Ekos T-Cable.
@@markcarrington8565your very clever I've been to see Mark at vinyl passion
Appreciate the honesty around 6.40, is like blood out of a stone with some people so thank you.
Thank you for taking the time to comment. We do this videos shot live like television from the 50's . No script, no teleprompters, no polish, and no canned laughter. Just plain old me and I think they come out pretty well.
@@audibleeleganceinc Absolutely, just let the camera's roll, and thank you for your informative video, is always nice to hear from knowledge people with degree of expertise in their field, if only the politicians understood that, the world would be a lot better off. P.s when I was growing up in the 70's and 80's America was the light but it was still born out of the light of Rome, Imperialism, Colonialism. My viSION for the now and the future is that America is key to a new Jer-USA-lem, see how the almighty has encoded the languaGE. Please encouraGE americans to put party politics aside and be part of turning the whole world around, it will take inGEnuity and GEnerosity, but with the use of mass media and communications it could happen quite quickly, a 1000 years reign of Christ consciousness that is presently being blocked out by secular reality and old colonial style economies founded on exploitation. Latin for Christ is GEsu, a clear messaGE indeed.
Are you sure about the vintage of the linn? The Valhalla was introduced in 1982. I see you're a Naim dealer. Were you ever able to get a Naim turntable? Here in Chicago, our Naim dealer forty plus years has one and it's phenomenal. About the best value in a highend table but they made so few.
The original power supply, the simple board and switch, were replaced in the process service on this table. Yes, Pro Musica is the well recognized by me.
Stay tuned for part 2...when Mr. Audible re-wires a legacy grace tonearm !🤓
Ah, no way, thank you. There's not much sense to it anyway as most grace tonearms I have encountered have screwed up bearings. Kinda like in 40 years I have only encountered one vintage Thorens turntable where the main bearing or it's thrust plate is not fubar from improperly moving them or shipping them. Then, there's was the Oracle Delphi a customer brought to me to repair that was shipped so poorly that it might as well have been sent in a paper bag. All the pillars were bent beyond belief. The tonearm was destroyed yet, amazingly, the cartridge survived it all just fine. I've seen a lot.
Actually Johnny, I am going to do another video on Linn LP12s as to the proper tools you need to really work on them. One of the tools I have is going to give a lot of people nightmares because they don't have it and you can not be confident about the tuning without it.
And thank you for your comment! I suspect you will have to wait a long, long time for that moment of insanity of rewiring an arm. Even Linn won't attempt to do it at the factory for theirs.
I just bought one in bits , there very easy to build and setup , and the do sound like nothing else
I am sure there are some used tables out there that can accomplish nice results by putting them back together. In my case, the customer asked me to upgrade a very early LP12 to a level of about 20 years later and with aftermarket parts. That's where the rub came in. The latest now is that the Grace 707 tonearm lead has an intermittent break in it requiring its replacement. As some may recall, the Grace tonearm leads have male 5 pin plugs, not the standard 5 pin female ones most commonly found. So, that's a hunt. Getting the bounce right with a non-Linn arm can be a bit tricky as those leads vary in thickness and stiffness.
Yes, I have had an old early model Linn Sondek LP12, which I bought secondhand. Apart from all the problems you've found , my trouble is more then the abovementioned. It was fitted with a SME series 3 tonearm. One day it picked up a hum. I took it into the workshop to have it looked at. Turned out the technician said the fault is almost impossible to trace simply because of the complexity of the design of the tonearm. Pretty much the same situation you've encountered in servicing of the Linn. It is uneconomical to fix. He gave me the same advice as you did. So at the end I have thrown it into the trash bin and that was my first Linn. But apart from that it was a great turntable and it's performance is hard to beat even by today's standards.
Sorry you had that experience and thank you for your comment in support. To the unwary, a very vintage LP12 can be beyond daunting. Be prepared for an adventure.
For one a series 3 is definitely repairable and even if it is not something within the skillset of the technician you went to, just throwing it away is a pure waste of money and a damn shame. I find it hard to believe that it is uneconomical to get a sondek lp12 fixed up to spec even if it is time consuming. You can get a second hand lp12 in the 1k range while new you would be hard pressed to find them in stock and you'd be paying in the 3k range. The only way it would be uneconomical to get it fixed up and up to spec is if your technician is exuberantly expensive or if something crucial is defective/missing (in which case you shouldn't be paying 1k in the first place.) Just replacing the series 3 would have only cost you around the 500 usd mark for example. And if you sold the old one that started humming (after isolating the issue to the arm base and not the arm tube, cartridge or cable which I presume your technician did) you could easily recoup 300 usd or so. So you basically threw away a 1k-1.5k turntable (depending on what exactly had or hadn't been done to it) over a 200 usd fix. Absolutely brilliant.
@@trevor245 As if though you know the whole story. 🤔🤔🤔
@@cheungshuiyeung5081 There is absolutely no situation where throwing it away is justified and not a waste of money. But go on, I am all ears.
@@trevor245 what's the point when the ears are deaf? I am a little wiser than that.
Buying an old turntable can be a risky business, I happened to find a very reliable seller, and must say I am enjoying my Thorens very much.
Thank you for comment. Yes, it can be done but so many people know little about turntables. So, I thought it wise to give a heads up. As for Thorens, they are very Linn like but few realize that they too can be "set-up." As I recall, Ivor started Linn after his frustrations with a Thorens knowing quite well it could be done better. And, he did.
I just did a blog on the Top 5 mistakes to make on a turntable and a video is coming up on the Top 10. Enjoy my blog on our website. If you have not done so already, please subscribe as there are about 100 to 150 more videos planned at this moment.
I thought this was great. Thanks.
Well, this was a video of compassion for those who have been contemplating such a purchase. Folks are free to choose what they want to do with their money and their time but we have all taken on projects where we ultimately ask ourselves "why did I do this?" I am merely giving a heads up. I did not mention the specialized tools needed, particularly the one needed to make sure the bolts themselves are not only straight, but perpendicular to the stainless steel top plate. If those are at any angle in any direction, tuning the suspension is likely impossible.
@@audibleeleganceinc I've never owned a LP12 but I've had plenty of trouble with second hand Thorens that have been messed about. . As you rightly say, you can't tell from the photos. I watch a lot of audiophile clips on here most of which are tedious beyond belief but I watched this one like it was a gripping movie and learned a lot. Thanks again.
@@faultyecho4196 As I wrote another, I wanted to give folks a reality check about what they are considering. As someone who has rebuilt 2 MGBs (yes, I am truly a dreamer as those projects are never ending), I thought it only fair to do so. By the way, in my experiences, the Thorens turntables were never fully understood and they are as complex as the Linn but nobody was ever trained on them. They do, in fact, share many of the same design parameters and share a few of the very same parts.
I too have watched videos out there. Many are so polished, so devoid of humanity, that they don't really tell a story. I like stories that teach and absolutely those that include failures, revelations, and like the rest of world, a touch of insanity.
Thank you for your comments as they inspire me to keep plodding forward, they truly do.
From the serial number this turntable is from 1979!
I thought she was an early one. It was a lot of work as you can see. I was criticized about the time it took but if one is doing their job right and respects the engineering, it simply takes that time. Thank you for the info. Pretty cool.
Certainly the quality of the new Linn turntables is higher, especially since they started manufacturing them in Litovel, Czech Republic.
I hadn't heard that. Anyone else care to chime in on this information?
Simply untrue, the LP12 is manufactured by Linn Products in their purpose built factory located in Eaglesham Scotland.
Jerry, that's what I thought too. I toured that facility. So, thank you for stating this. I am across the pond, so to speak, so I have no way of really knowing. @@jerrypartington3650
@@audibleeleganceinc Glad to be of assistance, keep up the good work, any man with a bolt straightener has my respect!
@@jerrypartington3650 It may well be that Pro-ject manufactures counterfaits of Linn turntables in their factory😀