Hi, thanks for watching the video. Its very long and deliberately starts of slow to get you ready for all that hits you in the second half - so make sure you give the video a chance to show you some very cool stuff - or use the chapters to find the bits you might want to see specifically.
I've been assing about cleaning records for nearly 30 years now. I only started using an ultrasonic cleaner a couple of years ago. It really is a complete game changer. Records that I thought would always be noisy are now quiet, especially after 2 cleans. I have one of the cheap Vevor machines and I've done 1000's of cycles with it now. What is amazing is that the sound is more detailed and spacious with the US cleaned vinyl.
Can't argue with that. I like records and have always had them, some noisy and some not, but if I had to go through and clean all of mine, I'd be an old man before I could listen to them all. It is good information, but at this point, I just don't care that much anymore.
The latest vinyl craze mystifies me. I used records back in the days when it was the only option. I still like playing records especially for some rare vintage discs, but in these days of FLAC it's beyond me why anyone would want to buy new recordings on vinyl and put up with all that distortion, noise and pops. It's never as good as digital no matter what you do.
I love my vinyl but it’s all over kill, clean by hand each time, enjoy your music and store away carefully. I’ve been doing this for over 50 years and still play albums from the late 60’s that sound great. Few pops but hey ITS A RECORD not a CD.
I agree I’m not that old but I’m old enough to have had records and still have a record player, clean them be gentle with them store them properly don’t try to overkill with a bunch of chemicals just distilled water some people even use tap and have no issue
A few very clean microfibre towels, some gentle homemade cleaning solution, and an even gentler hand with a tiny bit of patience do a wonderfully good and very adequate job IMO.... Provided you care for them and store them well in the meantime. For sure.
Some of the methods tried in the video are pretty much what you do, and by your statement, those would be considered not over kill. Yeah, a wet clean is great way to kill static and get a pretty good clean. Then a simple swipe from a carbon fiber brush is usually good enough.
Someone showed me after an alcohol, soap and distilled water cleaning, using wd-40 and distilled water blen, can remove deep dust and remove pops when listening to your vinyl.
@@negolfman Using a blend of WD-40 and distilled water to clean records is not recommended as WD-40 is not designed for cleaning vinyl records and can potentially damage the record surface, leaving residue and potentially affecting sound quality; it's best to stick with dedicated record cleaning solutions or a mixture of distilled water and a small amount of mild dish soap
I use like a 12 oz spray bottle. I fill it about a quarter inch with isopropyl alcohol, 1/3 of a drop of dish soap. And fill the bottle to the top with distilled water. I use this for very dirty records. Microfiber cloths. Great results. For regular dusting I mix a batch minus the dish soap.@@negolfman
Records are charged with static electricity when placed into and removed from a lined inner-sleeve. Brand new records have a high static electrical charge from the manufacturing. They are not packaged in a cleanroom. As you remove them from the lined inner sleeve the first time, the record pull dust out of the air like a magnet. Any friction on the record, brushing and even playing, generates static electricity. Wet-cleaning records neutralizes static electricity. Over-vacuuming creates static electricity. Using glue on a records does leave residue behind. No matter how much glue you apply to the record surface will not all be removed. Plus it takes a long time. Thank you for your exceptionally thorough video. Very educational. I love your scope. What brand and model is it?
I really love these tests that you do. This channel is very helpful. Please, if you are interested in trying it out, figure out how to get a much closer zoom on the record grooves! This was a excellent start! Thank you
I dont think that will be possible within the realms of my affordability. It would cost 10x what I paid for the scope just to get a clearer image of the same thing, god knows how much money to get super close. It would be cool to see it dont get me wrong but I dont think its possible for someone without industrial type equipment to do it. I will keep checking in on the tech and see what materialises.
I use a regular T-class Delta Definition synthetic paint brush. I point the bristle tips AGAINST the grooves while rotating the record, and in my experience, this removes all dust/debris that create audible pops and clicks from my records. The bristles are pointed and very thin, so I believe they actually get to the bottom of the grooves. In the case than something has stuck inside the groove, a brush will of course not be able to remove it. When I experience a needle jump, I therefore locate the precise location of it, and use a plastic tooth pick to force it out of the groove, and so far with success. Wet cleaning is another story. When I buy used records from my local used records dealer, I know that he cleans all records with some kind of machine. The brand is unknown to me, but the results are good. Older records in my collection simply get a treatment of lukewarm water with a drop of dish washing detergent added to the wet record (never unto the center label though). Then I wait a moment for the water/detergent to take effect, and then use a a soft brush several times all along the grooves the whole way around. This seems to work on my old, battered records. The record is then placed on a lint-free dish cloth, and dried off with a similar cloth, again running it along the grooves until the record is dry.
Hi mate well done on your vids. After being a hopeless vinyl junkie for many years I've stuck to a very simple practice in record cleanliness and achieving clear playback is to avoid the need for wet cleaning through proper handling and re-sleeving. Obvious no no's being of course keeping fingers (or any other body parts for that matter) off the vinyls playing surface. Avoid finger prints at all costs as they will act as a glue for dust and harden in the groove over time causing terrible playback and creating the need for a wet clean (in which lighter fluid is my go to for a quick residue free finish). Prevention is always better than cure and preventing small particles (or anything else) from entering the groove to start with will be your best defense at maintaining quality playback for years to come. So keep record sleeves/covers and storage areas as dust free as possible + playing equipment. Always handle your precious vinyl with CLEAN hands (even though you shouldn't be touching the record surface anyway) holding from the edges only. Also eliminate excess static with a pass over the record surface with the tone arm raised which should earth any static through the stylus. Hope this has been of use to yourself or anyone else reading, keep making interesting videos. Thanks Steve
Thank you for the time you have spent confirming my cleaning methods. I started handwashing with a Paint Brush and have progressed to using, a hand scrub prior to a Vevor UltraSonic Cleaner to deep clean. I then use a carbon fiber brush before each play.
Own the Degritter myself. For what it is worth I do a very similar method, dry wipe with brush, sonic clean cycle 4, wet physical clean with brush and surfactant, second sonic cycle 4 (shorter ones used in circumstances where the record has been taken care of.), remove tank, run a rinse with distilled water that is in a second tank and finish with the air-drying cycle. You cannot get everything, especially if it's a 50-year-old pressing where there was no attempt to conserve it. Sadly, sometimes some records get mold growing on them and the grooves get damaged. However, on most albums I can get things to a point where people will ask what CD I am playing?
@@robertogerber Depends on the condition of the record. If it's been well taken care of only once. If it filled with 30 years of filth it can go as high as 3 times. With a couple of physical scrubbings with a Kirmuss brush between cycles.
That MFSL pressing of Scetches Of Spain is my favorite pressing of my favorite record. Sounds phenomenal. Great work with all the in-depth testing! It's all very interesting. Keep up the good work!
Great video! Cool to see the grooves in a closeup manner. As far as cleaning goes for me, I have been using a personal tried and true affordable route that delivers incredible results. A label protector, Simple Green cleaning spray, a Spin Clean brush, distilled water for rinse, Viva lint free paper towels and a small USB compressed air blower to assist drying time. Thereafter, I always use my Zerostat, a Boundless carbon fiber brush, and Opula fluid/brush. I can't emphasize enough how good Simple Green is for cleaning. It's my secret sauce for safe and effective vinyl cleaning.
What do you use to wipe the record with after rinsing? The cleaning cloth cannot remove the water residue lodged in the groove, so it has to dry by itself.
Top Notch video!!!! Holy cow i've been in and out of the rabbit hole!! Funny took me years to get my cleaning down. I use the Vinyl vac method for pre cleaning (Full cleaning with Vac dry), then in the Ultrasonic and distilled rinse and Vac dry. It's a labor of love, results justify it for me. I finally have a destat lll on the way, It's brutal dry in the winter time here in New England!
Nice video! I’ve only done the glue cleaning method a couple of times but I used at least four times more glue. I made a nice, thick layer of glue, enough that it only takes minimal amount of manual application. Once dry, it was easy to grab, pull-off and it came out in one piece.
The one thing missing from your testing, Terry… the good old fashioned cleaning machine. You have best of both worlds because you’re brushing and wet cleaning at the same time. I use a pro-ject vcs and get great results using homemade solution (distilled water/isopropyl alcohol/small amount of detergent). I have found that you get better results with a stiffer than normal brush.
As a long time lp collector I hear this a lot: we never cleaned lps back in the day. My lps are between 30 and 65 years old and probably never cleaned. Using an ultrasonic cleaner will thoroughly clean your lps and you only have to do it once really.
Thanks for delving into a subject that has been of real interest to me through the years. I do think ultrasonic methods will do a better job removing dirt as you show. However, what I would like to see would be even greater magnification in an effort to reveal the amount of groove damage due to stylus driving dirt into the vinyl inside the groove. In this scenario a comparison of "new" records would be in order. Uncleaned status noted and then half the albums cleaned with the ultrasonic method and the other using the brush method to remove contaminates prior to play. Over several plays then compare the groove to reveal the amount, if any, permanent damage we do when contaminates possibly clip the dynamic range inherent in the fresh cut undulations of the groove itself. Given the superior cleaning capability of ultrasonic cleaning you show as a benchmark, how much long-term damage to the precious vinyl are we actually avoiding by employing ultrasonics over a more economical brush cleaning to a new groove. Just a question that I see as very important.
I thoroughly enjoyed your explorations and processes. I, too, own a Degritter, though it is only a lowly, outdated, ineffective version 1 machine (just kidding). The company's recent firmware update has created a nice two-tank cleaning process, which includes a pre-wash and a rinse. I'm using the following solutions: Into wash tank goes 1,400ml distilled water and 4 drops Tergikleen and 1ml of Degriter's own solution (I get a sudsy look if I use 2). The 4 drops of surfactant is roughly equivalent to maybe 11-12 drops per gallon, so I'm being conservative in the amount used. I always run my Degritter on the "heavy" cycle, which includes 6 minutes of actual ultrasonic cleaning. The Degritter then asks you to remove the "wash" tank and put in the "rinse" which is filled with 1310ml distilled water and 90ml 99% alcohol (roughly a 7% quantity). Degritter rinses the LP briefly then drys it. Total time is 15 minutes. I normally put a record through two of these 15 minute cycles (why not be thorough?) What is notable in the wash cycle is almost no sudsy-bubbly look, but instead a glossy "sheen" of water covering the entire record from edge to label, even on the record at its highest point of rotation. No dry looking spots form (obviously the LP is wet when being washed, duh). But I still find this look tells me the surfactant is having a "helpful" effect - and maybe this really means nothing, I know! My reasoning for the. small percentage of alcohol in the rinse is that it certainly can act on things that water alone doesn't. After the record is dry, I take it to an old gadget I've had for decades: a Kinetronics anti-static film cleaner (I'm a photographer who still has lots of negatives) which is connected to a small air compressor (with filter traps for water & dust). The compressor hose connects to a small roughly 4" cubic box powered by 120 ac. From this "box" an air tube and wire go to what resembles a paint sprayer! I "pull the trigger" on the "sprayer" and out comes a 75psi blast of clean air which removes any static charge and blows away anything else clinging to the record surface. The record then goes into a new static-free sleeve. I also give records a "blast" of air before playing and also when I flip to other side. Never are ANY brushes used and no physical contact is ever made to the record. I use a DS Audio ST-50 "gel" type of stylus cleaner and I never see any gunk collected on it since obtaining the Degritter. I only use the wash & rinse solutions for 20 passes, then start afresh. I went on-line to see if my unit is made any more and it doesn't appear to be, but others are). I do not see dust being drawn to my LP's and there are rugs all around. I own an extensive collection of early Decca classical music and pressings often had poor vinyl often with very audible surface noise (yet the records are otherwise pristine looking). My process really cleans that up nicely!
Did you ever wonder why people went over to CD's? I like vinyl and have many players and cartridges but at the end I just listen to the music and dont get myself totally freaked out by some surface noise. But I admire your determination. Happy listening.
Great job, Terry! That’s some serious commitment to cleaning. I’m using the, admittedly noisy, but much quicker and more affordable Pro-Ject vacuum machine. I use a tiny carbon brush, usually used to clean a stylus to really scrub the grooves. I move it across the surface 5mm at a time, holding it for 2 seconds each time for a new record, 5 seconds for an old one. The audible results are fantastic and I’d love to see the results on your microscope.
I am pretty sure the first record I used for the test was cleaned with a Pro-Ject VCE machine back when I first started and that looked pretty good ti me and that is what was messing up my testing initially. I dont think I ever played that record either so it was new too
Yes vinyl is a miracle that is works at all :) what this testing doesn’t really show is how the dust is the collected by the stylus or how the stylus rides through it or over it as of course that will effect what we hear. One step at a time to try and get this sort of thing on video :)
I use an old turntable to put wood glue on the record. You make the record spin and add glue to it starting from the end of the record till the start when done it looks like a swirl. Then I use an old credit card or any plastic card and spread the glue by turning the card sideways like you would spread icing to a cake. Then you leave it to dry till it starts to peel almost on its own then you know it’s time for the glue to come off. If you don’t have patience it’ll stick to the record. I use a label saver on the records I usually clean the record using the wet method then finish it up with the glue. That gives me the best results .
I clean mine with fluffy velvet cloth pinched with a laundry peg. his has been working for me since I got my first turntable/radio combo in the early 80's. These days I always have a can of air duster handy. Works every time. Regarding the dust on the new record, unless these are pressed in some sort of medical device environment, with triple filtration and whatever, any particles flying in the air will stick to it. Plus, the vinyl and accumulate quite a bit of static just being handled around and pulled in and out of the paper cover. I'd say, switch off your microscope, put a record on and enjoy.
The difference in sound quality after cleaning records is incredible and greatly underestimated. I always went: 1. Wet cloth to remove fingerprints 2. Knosti with DIY fluid 3. Second Knosti with demineralized water 4. Degritter Heavy run ultrasonic cleaning 5. Few zaps using Milty Zerostat. Sadly I sold my Deg due to financial reasons. The Zerostat does wonders on static pops.
totally agree wet clean for used record is a must especially for the fingerprints etc I live in Nevada and the Zerostat is a life saver in this high desert climate. (heck it works too when you have a clingy shirt especially when you get of the car.) I don't have a Knosti, I use a paint edger to wet clean in the kitchen sink with a basic 3-1 clear shower gel that has conditioner in it. It's what help the record not get too staticky to begin with. Then, in the Humminguru (I wish I could afford a Degritter or a KLAudio) At every play, a gentle brush from the Audioquest carbon fiber brush. Works pretty good for me.
Very nice presentation. I like seeing the microscope comparison. I recently tried a method out of personal curiosity, and so wish I had a microscope set up to compare. Perhaps I will break out the jeweler’s loop to get a close eye on results. Anyway, I used a paint roller the with of a record outward from the label, I shaved the fuzzy part off, sanded the roller smooth, then moulded poster tack on the roller, and began rolling the surface of some very poppy records. I followed up with an Isopropyl alcohol rinse, and enjoyed the results. I have yet to a magnifying device up onto the grooves, but from ears only, it was an improvement.
Hi, thanks a lot for this truly superb video. Would be great if you could make the same comparison between manual cleaning machines such as Knosti vs Ultrasonic cleaning. Regards.
I support that suggestion, since the Degritter costs about 2890 Euros (!) and the Knosti about 62. I cannot imagine that the difference - about 2800 Euros - would be visibly reflected by the cleaning results. Since standard ultrasonic cleaning devices (for jewellry etc.) begin at about 30 €, I would definitely feel not very good after buying something that expensive utilizing the same technology. But, there are currently several similar devices of Chinese provenience I've seen on A*zon, that are much cheaper. And there are some solutions with suction.
Just picked up a MC Cartridge and boy that really gets deep into the groove. You better have clean records if you start getting into these Cartridges. 🤓
I've had great results with dish soap and new 1.5 inch fine nylon paint brush over the sink. aftr washing and drying both sides,i then use a Diskwasher brush from the 70s. they look clean under magnification, and only need re washed after many plays. I use the diskwasher to dry clean each playing. bee interesting to see what you get using the dishwashing soap and brush method.
This suggestion may sound backwards , but try cleaning with a Degritter , followed by a distilled water rinse and vacuum with a Loricraft , which truly removes loose debris which ultrasonics detaches from the record . Some clean with a vac machine first to spare contamination of ultrasonic water , but rinse in ultrasonic leaves water on the record .
I like using microfibre cloths (the fine variety used for cleaning spectacle lenses) and my own record cleaning fluid. I think a lot of people using hand methods of cleaning LPs do not bear down hard enough on the grooves, or don't flush with a shower head afterward. Do both, and I think the results are pretty good.
the metal handle of the audioquest brush is supposed to touch the metal spindle of your turntable's platter to electrically ground the brush and reduce static. plus the carbon fiber bristles are supposed to reduce static even further.
I found the record doctor vacuum system works really well. Also the record doctor turn table clam combined with a suede platter mat is the best combo out there imo. Great vids!
Thank you for the work and for putting out the results! I hope it will help people in the future be more careful when choosing the right cleaning method. I think we need more vinyl mythbusting
Hi, I own a Kirmuss record restorer and ultrasonic is the way to go, I have some records that took 10 ultrasonics cycles to get them clean and the anti static gun works very good.
I’d love to see this same kind of analysis done on the much more affordable Spincare recording cleaning “machine”. Just how much difference does it make to a record under the microscope. Then compare to ultrasonic to establish the value differential or not as the case may be.
I mix a little detergent with water and always play my records wet, for no amount of cleaning will resolve the pops and crackles that are secondary to worn vinyl. The procedure does not prevent wear, but it dramatically slows it down.
Great video and prompts me to relate my near perfect cleaning method as he prompted me to exam in my results with my own microscope. I use a VPI following their protocol including their solution and brush. Where I differ is: just after I turn on the vacuum, I apply a disk doctor brush at an angle to the now dry surface as it rotates and spray liberally with distilled water. The brush forms a water damn, slowly releasing the clean water to the surface. Microscope shows at least 50 times less surface AND groove gunk as the best example in this video. And I rarely hear a click or pop (less than one/side). My theory is that the vacuum arm is actually sucking the fluid up even before it reaches the arm, resulting in a very high velocity of fluid flow through the narrow grove which in turn results in tremendous turbulence that knocks everything loose from the surface to be sucked away. I am a retired scientist with curiosity about what is really going on but at 79 I am more interested in listening to pristine vinyl than making mods to my hugely successful method.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem you are correct, my comment of 50x was overall gunk reduction. And while surface gunk might seem of no concern to playback, I worry that the needle can drag stuff down into the groove where the pressure and heat might imbed it irretrievably into the vinyl. Or, as chemists are like to say, you can’t tell if the inside of a flask is clean if the outside is dirty. Which raises the interesting question of why the degritter is cleaning the depths of the groove better than the surface. Particle size? Sorry if I seemed to be critical, that was by no means my intention.
There is a brand new model they just announced that brushes records first and is far more comprehensive of the water filtering - buts huge and very expensive - but maybe there is a clue there - but I agree on the surface dirt should be better but its hard to know what the exact cause is
I mostly agree with your technique. I quit using Tergikleen after observing faint brush marks from my very soft goat hair brush during pre-cleaning. Someone I know with a very serious microscope (he does make cleaning fluids) maintains there is evidence of damage. I used the minimum strength recommended. Now I use a pre-wash on a vacuum machine with one of two cleaning solutions. Then a quick rinse (I'm a rinsing fanatic) and into my Klaudio ultrasonic with just distilled water. It replaced my Degritter and is clearly superior, both visually and sonically, albeit at double the price. I also used and still have a Kirmuss which is a very time consuming process that I rarely see the need for. Even if I use it I still do the final Klaudio clean/rinse. This is the best results I've encountered and after much experimentation, this is my technique moving forward. Thanks for the thoughtful video, Oh, the person with the very expensive microscope (I just have USB ones like you) said the glue method absolutely leaves reside in the grooves.
What do you use to wipe the record with after rinsing? The cleaning cloth cannot remove the water residue lodged in the groove, so it has to dry by itself.
@@rajendrakumarduggar1835 Usually nothing. If I rinse, vacuum, then into the Klaudio it's dry cycle takes care of it. I've been convince that if you're going to use a cloth you shouldn't use microfiber ones because the lint they have is microfiber as well and can get into the grooves. I either use the felt pad that came with the Kirmuss or, most often, a clean cotton diaper. Cotton particles are too large to gert into grooves.
Well done captain .. again tip of the hat .. you did make me laugh .. the PVA’ thing tho ha ha .. it dries see through whatever the application DIY or not ha ha .. dirty dancing beast ha ha .. well appreciated brother .. a mission by any other name ha ha ❤big love always and thank you
Excellent video! I use a Humminguru and triple wash...the first tank with surfactant, a fresh to wash it off, and a final fresh bath + auto dry. The difference in sonic quality is amazing...new vinyl is often the worst (yuck) lol.
Here are some tips for those that want to use the glue process: 1. Put a record on a lazy Jane. Don't hold it. 2. Apply a thick coat of slightly diluted glue with a soft brush. You NEED to brush along the grooves so that the glue goes inside them. 3.Leave to dry for 8h. 4. Repeat side B. 5. Peel glue off of both sides. Thick layer leaves no residue. Done
I Enjoyed the video I've used the brush and the wet wash system, the one I've used and find it affective is the German made Disco cleaner and it's not to expensive it's worth a try.
Frequently cleaned records can sound brand new after years of playing. I have records from the late sixties I thought were played to death with horrible surface noise. Two trip through the record cleaner and their surface noise mostly disappeared and they sound like the pressing is nearly new.
Dear, congratulations for the effort, time and information... amazing... I have and love my vinyls. In time, very nice your turntable (a dream). Thank you very much. Santos-SP Brazil.
Over 30 years ago, there used to be a liquid PVC record cleaner. You applied it and once dried, peeled it off. Unfortunately, when you then played the record, there would be residue PVC debris build up on the sylus from the cleaner. So I abandoned using it.
Im going to make it really simple. New records will have only surface dust. Your fluffy makeup brush is perfect for that. If you handle and store you records well, (MOFI rice paper sleeves are excellent), that's all you will ever need. Old records come in a variety of conditions but almost always require some wet cleaning. In my 40 plus year as an audiophile, the best fluid I have ever used is Tergikleen. a few drops added to a gallon of distilled water creates a "brew" that will clean the nastiest records perfectly and in one application. Apply (scrub radially) with a microfiber applicator like Groovewasher and wipe dry with another microfiber towel. It leaves old records spotless regardless of whatever was on there. The "carbon fiber" brushes are bunk, they are really nylon, and have thick bristles that serve to rearrange rather than remove dust. Another great solution for records that have more than just surface dust but not stubborn, stuck on embedded material, is the silicone gel roller. It's also a snap to clean.
I have not been buying new vinyl that long but I already know there is more than just dust on new records. Lots of people have their own best methods, not many people have tested them thoroughly under a microscope to know for sure. There is a lot you cant see by eye alone as this video shows.
@PursuitPerfectSystem All vinyl is cleaned after pressing. Some can have some residues if its not done well. A quick clean with a clean, damp microfiber cloth with destilled water is all they should need. About the microscope, it's a nice tool. However, it doesn't tell you what is stuck on the groove and what is just fluff sitting on the surface. You would be surprised how much dust will simply set on the record within a few minutes of just lying out flat in the open just after it was cleaned. Again, if the dust is not suck in the groove, the stylus simply pushes it aside. A record is never truly 100% clean. The glue method is simply hairbrained you cant guarantee that it will all come off. Worse yet any tacky glue left over could end up gumming your stylus...a big problem! However, if you were going to try it, you should wait overnight to ensure that the glue is dry through and through before attempting to remove it. Finally, all that is all unnecessary, If Tergikleen can not clean it, it's probably better just to toss the record.
Pretty sure it was when I made this video where I unsealed a brand new record and it had way more than dust stuck to it from the sleeve it was packed in. If that record was cleaned at the factory there is no way it could have ended up like this ua-cam.com/video/ltCu1MDtd24/v-deo.html
Great video, still considering buying a Degritter but I already have a cheap ultrasonic cleaner and a Levar Twin which is very similar to the Clearaudio Double Matrix. Levar Twin gets in every groove with their liquid I guess but IMO it is not getting the dirt out efficient enough. Happy that I bought the Levar and not the more expensive Clearaudio because I founda dealer who cleans everything with the Clearaudio and their records sounded as shitty as mine, so the Clearaudio isn´t working much better with difficult records. Degritter is getting the dirt out but getting into every groove all around the record is very difficult, will need multible tempts. Pure out of logic I would say something like a Keith Monks Prodigy Deluxe should do better because it really gets in EVERY groove, but is it really enough? No clue Another legdown would be the side after side cleaning, I really like my Levar Twin for doing both side, gets the job done really quickly. My guess would be, starting with a Degritter cleaning, then going into ghe grooves again with a Keith Monks and finishing it of with a Levar Twin will work the best, but this would be very expensive just for cleaning. If you have a huge collection then it might still be a solution. I highly consider it now OR I´m buying a new cartridge with the capability of my Clearaudio Goldfinger but not as critical when it comes to noise. My Goldfinger really is a diva when it comes to this, extremely sensitive, maybe other brands to this better, no clue yet
I have found brushes are very good at piling up the dust in neat radial lines across the record. Actually removing the dust from a record is rather hard with a brush. I think I will try the makeup brush.
Use a Giotto bulb blower along with a goat hair makeup brush, blast that line with air and sweep with the brush towards the edge of the record, works great. A good turntable light makes a world of difference too.
I've been using ultrasonic cleaning machines for some years now with very repeatable results. Your microscopic comparisons are very interesting and lead me to the conclusion that most of the grains that are visible even after thorough ultrasonic cleaning must have been sucked in from the environment and shot at the record by the machine itself during the drying process. The Degritter - as opposed the the Gläss machine - doesn't seem to have air filters at all.
Alot of "white dots" arent dirt at all. Alot of the time its minor fill or stitching issues caused during manufacturing. Sometimes its seen as patches of tiny speckling, sometimes its more a line of larger shinier pearls in line with the grooves. Theres no amount of cleaning that resolve these issues. They are only issues if they are audible though. When they are they tend to produce a ripping, tearing, scraping kind of sounds.
Yes, I saw that MOFI Miles record and immediately thought I was seeing the tell-tale signs of non fill. You really don't expect to see that in a record which costs so much. I wonder if it was given as a freebie as it was a return? To be honest I'd rather have the dirty Good Morning Vietnam disc, which could be cleaned, rather than the Miles with the non fill.
You've gone down the rabbit hole. To me it's like thinking about traveling through space to see if you can see the other side without the realization that it will go forever. To me, I can put up with a few pops and crackles without coming close to the rabbit hole or a deep space journey.
In a post I just made, I said, " I went on-line to see if my unit is made any more and it doesn't appear to be, but others are" That was in reference to the anti-static air gun.
The great thing about your videos, Terry, is that you often show things that I didn't know I needed to see! That can be hifi equipment with a five figure price tag or the microscopic examination of dirty vinyl grooves! 35 minutes flew past in what felt like ten. Have you ever come across the Australian product called Record Revirginizer? It's not PVA glue, but works on a similar principle (sets into a 'skin' more quickly and much easier to remove from the vinyl) - would love to see that tested under a microscope as I'd always wondered whether tiny particles of the substance would remain in the grooves, invisible to the naked eye.
I believe that's a type of rubbery glue? used in children's craft work it smells of ammonia? is that correct? that could be used. for the life of me I can't think of the proper chemical name.
Thank you for the very kind words, pretty much everything is still new to me at this point so I am gradually exploring and experiencing new things. I will look into your suggestion for sure.
This video just popped up in my timeline so I thought I'd chime in. From the comments, I don't think people understand the point of this video which examines a number of record cleaning systems in an attempt to get a record as clean as possible at a microscopic level. Saying I use water, or alcohol, or detergent, a microfiber cloth, a brush and so on and they work fine isn't really describing what is going on in the grooves. For example, regular water and/or detergent can leave sediments and film in the grooves. Alcohol can dry out vinyl. Brushes and cloths push the dust around. Sure, any of these methods can remove 99% of dust, and the records may sound fine on a mediocre sound system, but it's not describing what's happening on a microscopic level. And I appreciate actually seeing how these systems work throough a microscope.
Hi Sir! I would love to see if soaking a record would hydrate the little chucks in the groove and soften them enough so that they would be removed easier.
Thanks for another great video, I purchased a lazy Susan from the Swedish furniture people ,drilled a hole in middle cut the drill bit down and glued it in as my spindle then covered the surface with diy cutting mat,do myrecord pre clean then bang it in the ultrasonic cleaner, 6 at a time, can usually do 18 records in a hour to a v good standard. I wouldn't mind the microscope set up and I'd use the Susan under that . Did you get the audioquest brush in uk? Cheers!
Thanks for a great video. What if you got a test record with groves end it before and after sampling. The testing would not be so much with the microscope but rather listening and recording and comparing? Just a thought. Thanks again!
Dust in the grooves is the worst - the needle can hit them and then deform the vinyl leaving permanent damage. Surface dust builds up on the needle and can cause skipping. I think I'd mount the record in an electric drill, spin it up slowly and try using a shower, or even pressure washer to dislodge the dust in the grooves, this should remove the particles completely instead of just pushing them around to find another home. Then use distilled water to rinse and spin up faster to dry. The ultrasonic cleaner looks cool, PVA method interesting especially if there's a solvent for it that doesn't touch vinyl. Compressed air with a vacuum also another approach, or use all methods!
Lay it on a slab of marble and let em have it with a garden hose using the pinchest nozzle you can find straight down on it and that'll do it. For 78s, Howard Feed & Wax.
I clean my records the cheap and cheerful method Terry. Label protector for the center label ( less than £20 from Amazon), wet mixture of Iso, distilled water and a drop or two of Fairy liquid mixed up and applied with a soft brush held over the sink and given a good old wetting going around following the grooves. Wash off with filtered water, placed down onto a 40cm lint free microfibre cloth and patted dry with another lint free microfiber cloth, flip over and do the other side. Place on kitchen drainer stand to air dry. Works every time for me! Simples....
What do you use to wipe the record with after rinsing? The cleaning cloth cannot remove the water residue lodged in the groove, so it has to dry by itself.
Maybe an idea to use an antistatic device, like the zerostat 3, before the wet cleaning. I clean my records by hand with the Knosti machine and I get better cleaning results when I use the Zerostat 3 before wet cleaning the record.
I was under the impression that wet cleaning was anti static already? I did test this in my last video but that was after the whole process. Thanks I will give it a try and see what happens
Can’t remember, but did you try the vacuum type record cleaners? I’m sure many would like to see you compare possibly the newly upgraded Record Doctor to the Degritter.The glue method is one that most of us probably aren’t seriously considering, but vacuum type cleaners like VPI etc have been around for many years, and are used by many audiophiles. So those two would be an interesting comparison.
I've just done a search and I can't find anything that pertains to silicone mould making rubber. You can thicken it's viscosity with additives and you can also buy fast cure. It does trap bubbles which can be a problem but it can be degassed. I really think it may work and I'd love to see the results under a microscope.
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Hi, thanks for watching the video. Its very long and deliberately starts of slow to get you ready for all that hits you in the second half - so make sure you give the video a chance to show you some very cool stuff - or use the chapters to find the bits you might want to see specifically.
How much is Degritter?
What about Dish Washing Liquid?
I found this decrease static
I've been assing about cleaning records for nearly 30 years now. I only started using an ultrasonic cleaner a couple of years ago. It really is a complete game changer. Records that I thought would always be noisy are now quiet, especially after 2 cleans. I have one of the cheap Vevor machines and I've done 1000's of cycles with it now. What is amazing is that the sound is more detailed and spacious with the US cleaned vinyl.
ASSING?
Love your work. Wish I could send more as a thank you.
I'm so happy to have left the vinyl craze when seeing this.
Can't argue with that. I like records and have always had them, some noisy and some not, but if I had to go through and clean all of mine, I'd be an old man before I could listen to them all. It is good information, but at this point, I just don't care that much anymore.
The latest vinyl craze mystifies me. I used records back in the days when it was the only option. I still like playing records especially for some rare vintage discs, but in these days of FLAC it's beyond me why anyone would want to buy new recordings on vinyl and put up with all that distortion, noise and pops. It's never as good as digital no matter what you do.
I love my vinyl but it’s all over kill, clean by hand each time, enjoy your music and store away carefully. I’ve been doing this for over 50 years and still play albums from the late 60’s that sound great. Few pops but hey ITS A RECORD not a CD.
It's a record for sure😂😂
I agree I’m not that old but I’m old enough to have had records and still have a record player, clean them be gentle with them store them properly don’t try to overkill with a bunch of chemicals just distilled water some people even use tap and have no issue
A few very clean microfibre towels, some gentle homemade cleaning solution, and an even gentler hand with a tiny bit of patience do a wonderfully good and very adequate job IMO.... Provided you care for them and store them well in the meantime. For sure.
Some of the methods tried in the video are pretty much what you do, and by your statement, those would be considered not over kill. Yeah, a wet clean is great way to kill static and get a pretty good clean. Then a simple swipe from a carbon fiber brush is usually good enough.
Well my records are also this old but without any pops. Why? Because I want this "overkill" and I'm not satisfied with mediocre results.
I just use micro fiber cloth. That’s it. Been using for years. Works for me. No pops no skips. Great video
Someone showed me after an alcohol, soap and distilled water cleaning, using wd-40 and distilled water blen, can remove deep dust and remove pops when listening to your vinyl.
@@negolfman Using a blend of WD-40 and distilled water to clean records is not recommended as WD-40 is not designed for cleaning vinyl records and can potentially damage the record surface, leaving residue and potentially affecting sound quality; it's best to stick with dedicated record cleaning solutions or a mixture of distilled water and a small amount of mild dish soap
I use like a 12 oz spray bottle. I fill it about a quarter inch with isopropyl alcohol, 1/3 of a drop of dish soap. And fill the bottle to the top with distilled water. I use this for very dirty records. Microfiber cloths. Great results. For regular dusting I mix a batch minus the dish soap.@@negolfman
Records are charged with static electricity when placed into and removed from a lined inner-sleeve. Brand new records have a high static electrical charge from the manufacturing. They are not packaged in a cleanroom. As you remove them from the lined inner sleeve the first time, the record pull dust out of the air like a magnet.
Any friction on the record, brushing and even playing, generates static electricity. Wet-cleaning records neutralizes static electricity. Over-vacuuming creates static electricity.
Using glue on a records does leave residue behind. No matter how much glue you apply to the record surface will not all be removed. Plus it takes a long time.
Thank you for your exceptionally thorough video. Very educational. I love your scope. What brand and model is it?
Thanks very much, here is a link to the scope I used geni.us/4PHPwBA
How do you clean your records?
I really love these tests that you do. This channel is very helpful. Please, if you are interested in trying it out, figure out how to get a much closer zoom on the record grooves! This was a excellent start! Thank you
I dont think that will be possible within the realms of my affordability. It would cost 10x what I paid for the scope just to get a clearer image of the same thing, god knows how much money to get super close. It would be cool to see it dont get me wrong but I dont think its possible for someone without industrial type equipment to do it. I will keep checking in on the tech and see what materialises.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem thanks dude, looking forward to it!
your care and efforts are much appreciated - thanks so much !
Well done Terry for this methodical approach to record cleaning.
I use a regular T-class Delta Definition synthetic paint brush. I point the bristle tips AGAINST the grooves while rotating the record, and in my experience, this removes all dust/debris that create audible pops and clicks from my records. The bristles are pointed and very thin, so I believe they actually get to the bottom of the grooves.
In the case than something has stuck inside the groove, a brush will of course not be able to remove it. When I experience a needle jump, I therefore locate the precise location of it, and use a plastic tooth pick to force it out of the groove, and so far with success. Wet cleaning is another story. When I buy used records from my local used records dealer, I know that he cleans all records with some kind of machine. The brand is unknown to me, but the results are good. Older records in my collection simply get a treatment of lukewarm water with a drop of dish washing detergent added to the wet record (never unto the center label though). Then I wait a moment for the water/detergent to take effect, and then use a a soft brush several times all along the grooves the whole way around. This seems to work on my old, battered records. The record is then placed on a lint-free dish cloth, and dried off with a similar cloth, again running it along the grooves until the record is dry.
Hi mate well done on your vids. After being a hopeless vinyl junkie for many years I've stuck to a very simple practice in record cleanliness and achieving clear playback is to avoid the need for wet cleaning through proper handling and re-sleeving. Obvious no no's being of course keeping fingers (or any other body parts for that matter) off the vinyls playing surface. Avoid finger prints at all costs as they will act as a glue for dust and harden in the groove over time causing terrible playback and creating the need for a wet clean (in which lighter fluid is my go to for a quick residue free finish). Prevention is always better than cure and preventing small particles (or anything else) from entering the groove to start with will be your best defense at maintaining quality playback for years to come.
So keep record sleeves/covers and storage areas as dust free as possible + playing equipment.
Always handle your precious vinyl with CLEAN hands (even though you shouldn't be touching the record surface anyway) holding from the edges only.
Also eliminate excess static with a pass over the record surface with the tone arm raised which should earth any static through the stylus.
Hope this has been of use to yourself or anyone else reading, keep making interesting videos.
Thanks
Steve
A brush followed by alcohol spray and microfiber cloth.
Thanks for the video , was very entertaining.
Thank you for the time you have spent confirming my cleaning methods. I started handwashing with a Paint Brush and have progressed to using, a hand scrub prior to a Vevor UltraSonic Cleaner to deep clean. I then use a carbon fiber brush before each play.
Own the Degritter myself. For what it is worth I do a very similar method, dry wipe with brush, sonic clean cycle 4, wet physical clean with brush and surfactant, second sonic cycle 4 (shorter ones used in circumstances where the record has been taken care of.), remove tank, run a rinse with distilled water that is in a second tank and finish with the air-drying cycle. You cannot get everything, especially if it's a 50-year-old pressing where there was no attempt to conserve it. Sadly, sometimes some records get mold growing on them and the grooves get damaged. However, on most albums I can get things to a point where people will ask what CD I am playing?
How often do you clean each record on the Degritter?
@@robertogerber Depends on the condition of the record. If it's been well taken care of only once. If it filled with 30 years of filth it can go as high as 3 times. With a couple of physical scrubbings with a Kirmuss brush between cycles.
That MFSL pressing of Scetches Of Spain is my favorite pressing of my favorite record. Sounds phenomenal.
Great work with all the in-depth testing! It's all very interesting. Keep up the good work!
Great video! Cool to see the grooves in a closeup manner. As far as cleaning goes for me, I have been using a personal tried and true affordable route that delivers incredible results. A label protector, Simple Green cleaning spray, a Spin Clean brush, distilled water for rinse, Viva lint free paper towels and a small USB compressed air blower to assist drying time. Thereafter, I always use my Zerostat, a Boundless carbon fiber brush, and Opula fluid/brush. I can't emphasize enough how good Simple Green is for cleaning. It's my secret sauce for safe and effective vinyl cleaning.
What do you use to wipe the record with after rinsing? The cleaning cloth cannot remove the water residue lodged in the groove, so it has to dry by itself.
Simple Green all-purpose cleaner you mean? Do you use it in the solution or just kike that right onto the vinyl?
Top Notch video!!!! Holy cow i've been in and out of the rabbit hole!! Funny took me years to get my cleaning down. I use the Vinyl vac method for pre cleaning (Full cleaning with Vac dry), then in the Ultrasonic and distilled rinse and Vac dry. It's a labor of love, results justify it for me. I finally have a destat lll on the way, It's brutal dry in the winter time here in New England!
Nice video!
I’ve only done the glue cleaning method a couple of times but I used at least four times more glue. I made a nice, thick layer of glue, enough that it only takes minimal amount of manual application.
Once dry, it was easy to grab, pull-off and it came out in one piece.
The one thing missing from your testing, Terry… the good old fashioned cleaning machine. You have best of both worlds because you’re brushing and wet cleaning at the same time. I use a pro-ject vcs and get great results using homemade solution (distilled water/isopropyl alcohol/small amount of detergent). I have found that you get better results with a stiffer than normal brush.
As a long time lp collector I hear this a lot: we never cleaned lps back in the day. My lps are between 30 and 65 years old and probably never cleaned. Using an ultrasonic cleaner will thoroughly clean your lps and you only have to do it once really.
Would love to see how a Spin Clean matches upm. I'm guessing it would be very close to the Degritter.
Thanks for delving into a subject that has been of real interest to me through the years. I do think ultrasonic methods will do a better job removing dirt as you show. However, what I would like to see would be even greater magnification in an effort to reveal the amount of groove damage due to stylus driving dirt into the vinyl inside the groove. In this scenario a comparison of "new" records would be in order. Uncleaned status noted and then half the albums cleaned with the ultrasonic method and the other using the brush method to remove contaminates prior to play. Over several plays then compare the groove to reveal the amount, if any, permanent damage we do when contaminates possibly clip the dynamic range inherent in the fresh cut undulations of the groove itself. Given the superior cleaning capability of ultrasonic cleaning you show as a benchmark, how much long-term damage to the precious vinyl are we actually avoiding by employing ultrasonics over a more economical brush cleaning to a new groove. Just a question that I see as very important.
Try a comparison video of Degritter machine vs. Humminguru machine 😅
Nice to see you have the same equipment to verify results before/after. Keep up the good work !
I thoroughly enjoyed your explorations and processes. I, too, own a Degritter, though it is only a lowly, outdated, ineffective version 1 machine (just kidding). The company's recent firmware update has created a nice two-tank cleaning process, which includes a pre-wash and a rinse. I'm using the following solutions: Into wash tank goes 1,400ml distilled water and 4 drops Tergikleen and 1ml of Degriter's own solution (I get a sudsy look if I use 2). The 4 drops of surfactant is roughly equivalent to maybe 11-12 drops per gallon, so I'm being conservative in the amount used. I always run my Degritter on the "heavy" cycle, which includes 6 minutes of actual ultrasonic cleaning. The Degritter then asks you to remove the "wash" tank and put in the "rinse" which is filled with 1310ml distilled water and 90ml 99% alcohol (roughly a 7% quantity). Degritter rinses the LP briefly then drys it. Total time is 15 minutes. I normally put a record through two of these 15 minute cycles (why not be thorough?) What is notable in the wash cycle is almost no sudsy-bubbly look, but instead a glossy "sheen" of water covering the entire record from edge to label, even on the record at its highest point of rotation. No dry looking spots form (obviously the LP is wet when being washed, duh). But I still find this look tells me the surfactant is having a "helpful" effect - and maybe this really means nothing, I know! My reasoning for the. small percentage of alcohol in the rinse is that it certainly can act on things that water alone doesn't. After the record is dry, I take it to an old gadget I've had for decades: a Kinetronics anti-static film cleaner (I'm a photographer who still has lots of negatives) which is connected to a small air compressor (with filter traps for water & dust). The compressor hose connects to a small roughly 4" cubic box powered by 120 ac. From this "box" an air tube and wire go to what resembles a paint sprayer! I "pull the trigger" on the "sprayer" and out comes a 75psi blast of clean air which removes any static charge and blows away anything else clinging to the record surface. The record then goes into a new static-free sleeve. I also give records a "blast" of air before playing and also when I flip to other side. Never are ANY brushes used and no physical contact is ever made to the record. I use a DS Audio ST-50 "gel" type of stylus cleaner and I never see any gunk collected on it since obtaining the Degritter. I only use the wash & rinse solutions for 20 passes, then start afresh. I went on-line to see if my unit is made any more and it doesn't appear to be, but others are). I do not see dust being drawn to my LP's and there are rugs all around. I own an extensive collection of early Decca classical music and pressings often had poor vinyl often with very audible surface noise (yet the records are otherwise pristine looking). My process really cleans that up nicely!
Nice setup and detailed video, thanks for posting this.
Thank you for the thorough breakdown!
Did you ever wonder why people went over to CD's? I like vinyl and have many players and cartridges but at the end I just listen to the music and dont get myself totally freaked out by some surface noise. But I admire your determination. Happy listening.
Great job, Terry! That’s some serious commitment to cleaning. I’m using the, admittedly noisy, but much quicker and more affordable Pro-Ject vacuum machine.
I use a tiny carbon brush, usually used to clean a stylus to really scrub the grooves. I move it across the surface 5mm at a time, holding it for 2 seconds each time for a new record, 5 seconds for an old one. The audible results are fantastic and I’d love to see the results on your microscope.
I am pretty sure the first record I used for the test was cleaned with a Pro-Ject VCE machine back when I first started and that looked pretty good ti me and that is what was messing up my testing initially. I dont think I ever played that record either so it was new too
The extreme closeup near the end is very cool.
It makes me think with any dust and minor imperfections it’s a miracle we can hear anything 😂
Yes vinyl is a miracle that is works at all :) what this testing doesn’t really show is how the dust is the collected by the stylus or how the stylus rides through it or over it as of course that will effect what we hear. One step at a time to try and get this sort of thing on video :)
I use an old turntable to put wood glue on the record. You make the record spin and add glue to it starting from the end of the record till the start when done it looks like a swirl. Then I use an old credit card or any plastic card and spread the glue by turning the card sideways like you would spread icing to a cake. Then you leave it to dry till it starts to peel almost on its own then you know it’s time for the glue to come off. If you don’t have patience it’ll stick to the record. I use a label saver on the records I usually clean the record using the wet method then finish it up with the glue. That gives me the best results .
Great video love the detail and pics of the grooves man!,
Seriously LOVE your approach! Awesome work.
I clean mine with fluffy velvet cloth pinched with a laundry peg. his has been working for me since I got my first turntable/radio combo in the early 80's. These days I always have a can of air duster handy. Works every time. Regarding the dust on the new record, unless these are pressed in some sort of medical device environment, with triple filtration and whatever, any particles flying in the air will stick to it. Plus, the vinyl and accumulate quite a bit of static just being handled around and pulled in and out of the paper cover. I'd say, switch off your microscope, put a record on and enjoy.
when using the glue, cover with saran wrap, will give a more 'solid' material to pull against.
The difference in sound quality after cleaning records is incredible and greatly underestimated.
I always went:
1. Wet cloth to remove fingerprints
2. Knosti with DIY fluid
3. Second Knosti with demineralized water
4. Degritter Heavy run ultrasonic cleaning
5. Few zaps using Milty Zerostat.
Sadly I sold my Deg due to financial reasons. The Zerostat does wonders on static pops.
totally agree
wet clean for used record is a must especially for the fingerprints etc
I live in Nevada and the Zerostat is a life saver in this high desert climate.
(heck it works too when you have a clingy shirt especially when you get of the car.)
I don't have a Knosti, I use a paint edger to wet clean in the kitchen sink with a basic 3-1 clear shower gel that has conditioner in it. It's what help the record not get too staticky to begin with. Then, in the Humminguru (I wish I could afford a Degritter or a KLAudio)
At every play, a gentle brush from the Audioquest carbon fiber brush.
Works pretty good for me.
Very nice presentation. I like seeing the microscope comparison. I recently tried a method out of personal curiosity, and so wish I had a microscope set up to compare. Perhaps I will break out the jeweler’s loop to get a close eye on results. Anyway, I used a paint roller the with of a record outward from the label, I shaved the fuzzy part off, sanded the roller smooth, then moulded poster tack on the roller, and began rolling the surface of some very poppy records. I followed up with an Isopropyl alcohol rinse, and enjoyed the results. I have yet to a magnifying device up onto the grooves, but from ears only, it was an improvement.
11:00 Thanks, Im going crazy trying to get my vinyls cleaned, feeling the same way about it all, and I cant wait to see the rest of this video.
Hi,
thanks a lot for this truly superb video. Would be great if you could make the same comparison between manual cleaning machines such as Knosti vs Ultrasonic cleaning. Regards.
I support that suggestion, since the Degritter costs about 2890 Euros (!) and the Knosti about 62. I cannot imagine that the difference - about 2800 Euros - would be visibly reflected by the cleaning results. Since standard ultrasonic cleaning devices (for jewellry etc.) begin at about 30 €, I would definitely feel not very good after buying something that expensive utilizing the same technology. But, there are currently several similar devices of Chinese provenience I've seen on A*zon, that are much cheaper. And there are some solutions with suction.
Just picked up a MC Cartridge and boy that really gets deep into the groove. You better have clean records if you start getting into these Cartridges. 🤓
I've had great results with dish soap and new 1.5 inch fine nylon paint brush over the sink. aftr washing and drying both sides,i then use a Diskwasher brush from the 70s. they look clean under magnification, and only need re washed after many plays. I use the diskwasher to dry clean each playing. bee interesting to see what you get using the dishwashing soap and brush method.
This suggestion may sound backwards , but try cleaning with a Degritter , followed by a distilled water rinse and vacuum with a Loricraft , which truly removes loose debris which ultrasonics detaches from the record . Some clean with a vac machine first to spare contamination of ultrasonic water , but rinse in ultrasonic leaves water on the record .
I like using microfibre cloths (the fine variety used for cleaning spectacle lenses) and my own record cleaning fluid. I think a lot of people using hand methods of cleaning LPs do not bear down hard enough on the grooves, or don't flush with a shower head afterward. Do both, and I think the results are pretty good.
Great 👍 video, Terry, thanks! 🙏
the metal handle of the audioquest brush is supposed to touch the metal spindle of your turntable's platter to electrically ground the brush and reduce static. plus the carbon fiber bristles are supposed to reduce static even further.
I found the record doctor vacuum system works really well. Also the record doctor turn table clam combined with a suede platter mat is the best combo out there imo. Great vids!
Thank you for the work and for putting out the results! I hope it will help people in the future be more careful when choosing the right cleaning method. I think we need more vinyl mythbusting
Hi, I own a Kirmuss record restorer and ultrasonic is the way to go, I have some records that took 10 ultrasonics cycles to get them clean and the anti static gun works very good.
Great comparison of record cleaning options. Since ultrasonic preformed so well, I’d love to see a shoutout between Degritter and Hummingbird.
I’d love to see this same kind of analysis done on the much more affordable Spincare recording cleaning “machine”. Just how much difference does it make to a record under the microscope. Then compare to ultrasonic to establish the value differential or not as the case may be.
Great vid. Honestly didn't even realise Sean Dyche had a youtube channel.
He wishes he was as good looking as me
Hell of a video!! Great analysis!! Many thanks.
Would have loved to see the Disco Antistat at work. What are your thoughts on that? Best
I mix a little detergent with water and always play my records wet, for no amount of cleaning will resolve the pops and crackles that are secondary to worn vinyl. The procedure does not prevent wear, but it dramatically slows it down.
Great video and prompts me to relate my near perfect cleaning method as he prompted me to exam in my results with my own microscope. I use a VPI following their protocol including their solution and brush. Where I differ is: just after I turn on the vacuum, I apply a disk doctor brush at an angle to the now dry surface as it rotates and spray liberally with distilled water. The brush forms a water damn, slowly releasing the clean water to the surface. Microscope shows at least 50 times less surface AND groove gunk as the best example in this video. And I rarely hear a click or pop (less than one/side). My theory is that the vacuum arm is actually sucking the fluid up even before it reaches the arm, resulting in a very high velocity of fluid flow through the narrow grove which in turn results in tremendous turbulence that knocks everything loose from the surface to be sucked away. I am a retired scientist with curiosity about what is really going on but at 79 I am more interested in listening to pristine vinyl than making mods to my hugely successful method.
the best solution in this video was no groove dust and better than brand new - if you can do 50x better than nothing congrats
@@PursuitPerfectSystem you are correct, my comment of 50x was overall gunk reduction. And while surface gunk might seem of no concern to playback, I worry that the needle can drag stuff down into the groove where the pressure and heat might imbed it irretrievably into the vinyl. Or, as chemists are like to say, you can’t tell if the inside of a flask is clean if the outside is dirty. Which raises the interesting question of why the degritter is cleaning the depths of the groove better than the surface. Particle size? Sorry if I seemed to be critical, that was by no means my intention.
There is a brand new model they just announced that brushes records first and is far more comprehensive of the water filtering - buts huge and very expensive - but maybe there is a clue there - but I agree on the surface dirt should be better but its hard to know what the exact cause is
I mostly agree with your technique. I quit using Tergikleen after observing faint brush marks from my very soft goat hair brush during pre-cleaning. Someone I know with a very serious microscope (he does make cleaning fluids) maintains there is evidence of damage. I used the minimum strength recommended. Now I use a pre-wash on a vacuum machine with one of two cleaning solutions. Then a quick rinse (I'm a rinsing fanatic) and into my Klaudio ultrasonic with just distilled water. It replaced my Degritter and is clearly superior, both visually and sonically, albeit at double the price. I also used and still have a Kirmuss which is a very time consuming process that I rarely see the need for. Even if I use it I still do the final Klaudio clean/rinse. This is the best results I've encountered and after much experimentation, this is my technique moving forward. Thanks for the thoughtful video, Oh, the person with the very expensive microscope (I just have USB ones like you) said the glue method absolutely leaves reside in the grooves.
What do you use to wipe the record with after rinsing? The cleaning cloth cannot remove the water residue lodged in the groove, so it has to dry by itself.
@@rajendrakumarduggar1835 Usually nothing. If I rinse, vacuum, then into the Klaudio it's dry cycle takes care of it. I've been convince that if you're going to use a cloth you shouldn't use microfiber ones because the lint they have is microfiber as well and can get into the grooves. I either use the felt pad that came with the Kirmuss or, most often, a clean cotton diaper. Cotton particles are too large to gert into grooves.
Well done captain .. again tip of the hat .. you did make me laugh .. the PVA’ thing tho ha ha .. it dries see through whatever the application DIY or not ha ha .. dirty dancing beast ha ha .. well appreciated brother .. a mission by any other name ha ha ❤big love always and thank you
Excellent video! I use a Humminguru and triple wash...the first tank with surfactant, a fresh to wash it off, and a final fresh bath + auto dry. The difference in sonic quality is amazing...new vinyl is often the worst (yuck) lol.
Very interesting, great work !
Thanks for the video. Unfortunately the cost of the Degritter is too expensive for what it is. Not everybody can afford the asking price.
Here are some tips for those that want to use the glue process:
1. Put a record on a lazy Jane. Don't hold it.
2. Apply a thick coat of slightly diluted glue with a soft brush. You NEED to brush along the grooves so that the glue goes inside them.
3.Leave to dry for 8h.
4. Repeat side B.
5. Peel glue off of both sides. Thick layer leaves no residue.
Done
Have you checked under a microscope to see if no residue is left? You can’t see it by eye always as I showed
I Enjoyed the video I've used the brush and the wet wash system, the one I've used and find it affective is the German made Disco cleaner and it's not to expensive it's worth a try.
Frequently cleaned records can sound brand new after years of playing. I have records from the late sixties I thought were played to death with horrible surface noise. Two trip through the record cleaner and their surface noise mostly disappeared and they sound like the pressing is nearly new.
Dear, congratulations for the effort, time and information... amazing... I have and love my vinyls. In time, very nice your turntable (a dream). Thank you very much. Santos-SP Brazil.
Over 30 years ago, there used to be a liquid PVC record cleaner. You applied it and once dried, peeled it off. Unfortunately, when you then played the record, there would be residue PVC debris build up on the sylus from the cleaner. So I abandoned using it.
In the dishwasher set on a quick wash with a Persil tablet, come out lovely they do, if a little warped, but my tonearm can handle a bumpy ride 😂
I’m d like to see more focus on the USC to see what to most effective method of applying surfactants.
Im going to make it really simple. New records will have only surface dust. Your fluffy makeup brush is perfect for that. If you handle and store you records well, (MOFI rice paper sleeves are excellent), that's all you will ever need. Old records come in a variety of conditions but almost always require some wet cleaning. In my 40 plus year as an audiophile, the best fluid I have ever used is Tergikleen. a few drops added to a gallon of distilled water creates a "brew" that will clean the nastiest records perfectly and in one application. Apply (scrub radially) with a microfiber applicator like Groovewasher and wipe dry with another microfiber towel. It leaves old records spotless regardless of whatever was on there. The "carbon fiber" brushes are bunk, they are really nylon, and have thick bristles that serve to rearrange rather than remove dust. Another great solution for records that have more than just surface dust but not stubborn, stuck on embedded material, is the silicone gel roller. It's also a snap to clean.
I have not been buying new vinyl that long but I already know there is more than just dust on new records. Lots of people have their own best methods, not many people have tested them thoroughly under a microscope to know for sure. There is a lot you cant see by eye alone as this video shows.
@PursuitPerfectSystem
All vinyl is cleaned after pressing. Some can have some residues if its not done well. A quick clean with a clean, damp microfiber cloth with destilled water is all they should need. About the microscope, it's a nice tool. However, it doesn't tell you what is stuck on the groove and what is just fluff sitting on the surface. You would be surprised how much dust will simply set on the record within a few minutes of just lying out flat in the open just after it was cleaned. Again, if the dust is not suck in the groove, the stylus simply pushes it aside. A record is never truly 100% clean. The glue method is simply hairbrained you cant guarantee that it will all come off. Worse yet any tacky glue left over could end up gumming your stylus...a big problem! However, if you were going to try it, you should wait overnight to ensure that the glue is dry through and through before attempting to remove it.
Finally, all that is all unnecessary, If Tergikleen can not clean it, it's probably better just to toss the record.
Pretty sure it was when I made this video where I unsealed a brand new record and it had way more than dust stuck to it from the sleeve it was packed in. If that record was cleaned at the factory there is no way it could have ended up like this ua-cam.com/video/ltCu1MDtd24/v-deo.html
Great video, still considering buying a Degritter but I already have a cheap ultrasonic cleaner and a Levar Twin which is very similar to the Clearaudio Double Matrix.
Levar Twin gets in every groove with their liquid I guess but IMO it is not getting the dirt out efficient enough. Happy that I bought the Levar and not the more expensive Clearaudio because I founda dealer who cleans everything with the Clearaudio and their records sounded as shitty as mine, so the Clearaudio isn´t working much better with difficult records.
Degritter is getting the dirt out but getting into every groove all around the record is very difficult, will need multible tempts.
Pure out of logic I would say something like a Keith Monks Prodigy Deluxe should do better because it really gets in EVERY groove, but is it really enough? No clue
Another legdown would be the side after side cleaning, I really like my Levar Twin for doing both side, gets the job done really quickly.
My guess would be, starting with a Degritter cleaning, then going into ghe grooves again with a Keith Monks and finishing it of with a Levar Twin will work the best, but this would be very expensive just for cleaning. If you have a huge collection then it might still be a solution. I highly consider it now
OR
I´m buying a new cartridge with the capability of my Clearaudio Goldfinger but not as critical when it comes to noise. My Goldfinger really is a diva when it comes to this, extremely sensitive, maybe other brands to this better, no clue yet
I have found brushes are very good at piling up the dust in neat radial lines across the record. Actually removing the dust from a record is rather hard with a brush. I think I will try the makeup brush.
Use a Giotto bulb blower along with a goat hair makeup brush, blast that line with air and sweep with the brush towards the edge of the record, works great.
A good turntable light makes a world of difference too.
I've been using ultrasonic cleaning machines for some years now with very repeatable results. Your microscopic comparisons are very interesting and lead me to the conclusion that most of the grains that are visible even after thorough ultrasonic cleaning must have been sucked in from the environment and shot at the record by the machine itself during the drying process. The Degritter - as opposed the the Gläss machine - doesn't seem to have air filters at all.
Part of the charm sometimes! Just played a brand new record and oh well still fantastic
This tells me I can make a significant improvement for £25. Off to do that now
Alot of "white dots" arent dirt at all. Alot of the time its minor fill or stitching issues caused during manufacturing. Sometimes its seen as patches of tiny speckling, sometimes its more a line of larger shinier pearls in line with the grooves. Theres no amount of cleaning that resolve these issues. They are only issues if they are audible though. When they are they tend to produce a ripping, tearing, scraping kind of sounds.
That’s very interesting to learn about thank you
Yes, I saw that MOFI Miles record and immediately thought I was seeing the tell-tale signs of non fill. You really don't expect to see that in a record which costs so much. I wonder if it was given as a freebie as it was a return?
To be honest I'd rather have the dirty Good Morning Vietnam disc, which could be cleaned, rather than the Miles with the non fill.
You've gone down the rabbit hole. To me it's like thinking about traveling through space to see if you can see the other side without the realization that it will go forever. To me, I can put up with a few pops and crackles without coming close to the rabbit hole or a deep space journey.
In a post I just made, I said, " I went on-line to see if my unit is made any more and it doesn't appear to be, but others are" That was in reference to the anti-static air gun.
Can you do a review of the Hudson Hi-Fi Anti-Static Dust Brush Tonearm? Brand: Sleeve City also has one too. Both can be found on the big A.
Very interesting, thanks for posting.
Jim🏴🙂
Thanks Jim
The great thing about your videos, Terry, is that you often show things that I didn't know I needed to see! That can be hifi equipment with a five figure price tag or the microscopic examination of dirty vinyl grooves! 35 minutes flew past in what felt like ten. Have you ever come across the Australian product called Record Revirginizer? It's not PVA glue, but works on a similar principle (sets into a 'skin' more quickly and much easier to remove from the vinyl) - would love to see that tested under a microscope as I'd always wondered whether tiny particles of the substance would remain in the grooves, invisible to the naked eye.
I believe that's a type of rubbery glue? used in children's craft work it smells of ammonia? is that correct? that could be used. for the life of me I can't think of the proper chemical name.
Thank you for the very kind words, pretty much everything is still new to me at this point so I am gradually exploring and experiencing new things. I will look into your suggestion for sure.
Great video, it has good information in it, thanks for doing that.
This video just popped up in my timeline so I thought I'd chime in. From the comments, I don't think people understand the point of this video which examines a number of record cleaning systems in an attempt to get a record as clean as possible at a microscopic level. Saying I use water, or alcohol, or detergent, a microfiber cloth, a brush and so on and they work fine isn't really describing what is going on in the grooves.
For example, regular water and/or detergent can leave sediments and film in the grooves. Alcohol can dry out vinyl. Brushes and cloths push the dust around. Sure, any of these methods can remove 99% of dust, and the records may sound fine on a mediocre sound system, but it's not describing what's happening on a microscopic level. And I appreciate actually seeing how these systems work throough a microscope.
Hi Sir! I would love to see if soaking a record would hydrate the little chucks in the groove and soften them enough so that they would be removed easier.
Well done, very thorough!
I am interested in a small vacuumcleaner with a small hose. Any suggestion?
Thanks for another great video, I purchased a lazy Susan from the Swedish furniture people ,drilled a hole in middle cut the drill bit down and glued it in as my spindle then covered the surface with diy cutting mat,do myrecord pre clean then bang it in the ultrasonic cleaner, 6 at a time, can usually do 18 records in a hour to a v good standard. I wouldn't mind the microscope set up and I'd use the Susan under that . Did you get the audioquest brush in uk? Cheers!
Good work! Can you do a test with detergent and water? Afterwards let it dry naturally. Thanks!
Hi, what are those plastic bottles with that straw type applicator that you have distelled water in called please ?
Great video BTW.
Cheers
Once the record really dries again. Its back to tics and pops. Cleaning only stops static charge.
Been playing records for years and always look after them and never suffered from many clicks and pops .
That’s the whole point of looking after them but if you buy them used then it’s the Wild West, to be fair new ones as well
Thanks for a great video. What if you got a test record with groves end it before and after sampling. The testing would not be so much with the microscope but rather listening and recording and comparing? Just a thought. Thanks again!
Very interesting and useful. Watched to the end. I've often wondered about the effectiveness of these products. Keep up the great work.
I actually pulled out some popcorn around midway... best, through explanation with a why and how to boot ... 🥲
Dust in the grooves is the worst - the needle can hit them and then deform the vinyl leaving permanent damage. Surface dust builds up on the needle and can cause skipping.
I think I'd mount the record in an electric drill, spin it up slowly and try using a shower, or even pressure washer to dislodge the dust in the grooves, this should remove the particles completely instead of just pushing them around to find another home. Then use distilled water to rinse and spin up faster to dry.
The ultrasonic cleaner looks cool, PVA method interesting especially if there's a solvent for it that doesn't touch vinyl. Compressed air with a vacuum also another approach, or use all methods!
I used an ultrasonic record cleaner. My records have a beautiful clean look. But best they sound as clean as CD playback
Lay it on a slab of marble and let em have it with a garden hose using the pinchest nozzle you can find straight down on it and that'll do it. For 78s, Howard Feed & Wax.
I clean my records the cheap and cheerful method Terry. Label protector for the center label ( less than £20 from Amazon), wet mixture of Iso, distilled water and a drop or two of Fairy liquid mixed up and applied with a soft brush held over the sink and given a good old wetting going around following the grooves. Wash off with filtered water, placed down onto a 40cm lint free microfibre cloth and patted dry with another lint free microfiber cloth, flip over and do the other side. Place on kitchen drainer stand to air dry. Works every time for me! Simples....
very similar to my method
What do you use to wipe the record with after rinsing? The cleaning cloth cannot remove the water residue lodged in the groove, so it has to dry by itself.
Thank you so much for the video! Great explanation!
Maybe an idea to use an antistatic device, like the zerostat 3, before the wet cleaning.
I clean my records by hand with the Knosti machine and I get better cleaning results when I use the Zerostat 3 before wet cleaning the record.
I was under the impression that wet cleaning was anti static already? I did test this in my last video but that was after the whole process. Thanks I will give it a try and see what happens
Can’t remember, but did you try the vacuum type record cleaners? I’m sure many would like to see you compare possibly the newly upgraded Record Doctor to the Degritter.The glue method is one that most of us probably aren’t seriously considering, but vacuum type cleaners like VPI etc have been around for many years, and are used by many audiophiles. So those two would be an interesting comparison.
I've just done a search and I can't find anything that pertains to silicone mould making rubber. You can thicken it's viscosity with additives and you can also buy fast cure. It does trap bubbles which can be a problem but it can be degassed. I really think it may work and I'd love to see the results under a microscope.
Wonder what high air pressure will do/clean the vinyl record. I ignore liquide based or brush based cleaning methodes.