The BSR Fauxnograph - Vintage turntables aren't always better!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 січ 2020
- Some vintage turntables try so hard to look higher-quality than they really are, that you might be fooled into thinking that they're better than inexpensive new turntables. Here's an example of that: the Montgomery Ward GEN 6730A, made by BSR.
For an example of a vintage turntable that definitely is better than many new ones and is worth getting, here is a video about my Technics SL-1900, including how to fix a common problem with it: • Technics SL-1900 turnt... - Наука та технологія
4:40 - 4:53 The average quality of "on hold" music when you call your average cable TV provider.
Years ago I worked at a small gas station chain, and they had this control box at the front of the store. They had their store commercials and then we had the option of several satellite music channels to pick from using a remote in the back office area to play while working there. This control box had connections on the back and I could tell after adjusting the volume for the store speakers that whoever set this up were sending line level signal into a microphone connection on this box. The box did not have the line level input option. All I could do and I assume they did this when they set it up, was to keep the volume low from the satellite player and deal with some distortion and low quality sound. How "professional sound or TV businesses" exist and don't know these simple principles bothers me. So in short this is what you get often with music on hold....
@@tableseven8133 Seemingly anyone who has "hooked up" their home stereo once, "qualifies" as an "audio tech",LOL. I once was at a business where the on hold "music" was a continuously running Sony Discman! LOL!
4:35 LMAO!
He was acting like he was really about to play something. That sounds so bad.
People gotta relax. These are a little better than what we started out with in the 60s & 70s. And those players were used to play future classic rock collectibles that now cost a fortune. So think about that. If it gets new people in the hobby, I say good , it keeps it alive for everyone.
True that.
Fucking exactly. People are so quick to forget that the reason you can go on to any high street and buy the latest releases on vinyl is not because everybody is buying AT120s. Don't get me wrong, there are definitely improvements with the more you spend, but the bargain basement suitcase players definitely have a role in keeping the vinyl revival going.
as was editorialized, Newbies to vinyl are better off getting a new, modern turntable - the experience of old vintage junk like this would just be a world of disappointment. Newbie then blows off the hobby altogether thinking the old geezers extolling their vinyl collections are just full of it
You are so right. Many of those old turntables were shit. I had the BSR Quanta 550 and it was deplorable. Then I had a SANYO TP-1012. That was even worse. Many of today's turntables are far better than what those old ones were.
The crapcase players have a ceramic cartridge . This was obsolete from 1949 when microgroove records were invented. It is 78 record tech. If you use a ceramic cartridge its like using a hammer to adjust ure car mirror.True. The atlp60 has a magnetic cart. Designed for microgroove records..sic.
On the upside, using a preamp enhances the sound of punk rock records!
Sounds like the Iggy mix of Raw Power.
I think the Oblivians used a Marantz stereo system for the guitar, at least in the beginning, so it could very well be that the preamp enhances the sound for that type of music
4:48 to 4:55
I can't stop laughing!
Like a gold ring in a pig's snout.
@@REXXSEVEN haha earrape funi
My Montgomery Ward "all in one" stereo from about 1983 had that same turntable in it - brings back memories !
Dad used to call that place Monkey Wards...I remember when it was in the mall. (What's that...lol)
@@jimb032 oh man thats so funny i geuss he was nt happy with them lol!
@rodger williams
Nope, it was a pet name that many people that shopped there called it. They were a decent major department store and during the 80s had a nice selection of electronics in their Electric Ave section of the stores.
@@rogerwillams2814 I don't think he had anything against it, or believe me I would remember. I was very young when it folded. I never remember anyone saying anything bad really, in fact most people were a bit sad when they left.
@@jimb032 yes i remember malls too
RIP headphone users at those initial sound tests
I sUrViVeD.
This is why I have a compressor/limiter (dbx 166xs) for protection!
@@ccateni28 me too
@@archyxwuff Drawmer LX20 over here. Essential for watching UA-cam.
I nearly died lmao
Be the Ultimate Lo-Fi '70's hipster! Get a cheap BSR tuntable with ceramic cartridge,sapphire stylus and a thumbfull of styrene '45's! (even better in mono!).
4:39 isn't all different than your average earrape video on UA-cam.
boogiebutters I agree.
Thats what I thought ;^D
That part of the video had me laughing so much. I thought he was really about to play something. And then it sounded like that. LOL
... its the best way to avoid copyright.
I [reluctantly] consider myself an audiophile, mainly because I like and appreciate high quality audio, but I have absolutely no problem with people who use Crosley record players, and it would never even occur to me to shame them or make fun of them. The only suggestion I would make is purchasing a diamond stylus to replace the stock sapphire stylus. I have no problem with 5g VTF. The issue is that a sapphire tracking at 5g will wear down a lot more quickly than a diamond will, and it's not realistic to expect a Crosley user to replace his or her sapphire stylus every 100 hours of play time. If they get a diamond stylus it'll last 500 hours and cost less than five sapphire styli.
The big issue with these crosley-style suitcase thingies is that the build quality varies. *A lot*. Friend of mine got one of those things for christmas from her parents (instead of an actual record player she could use on her existing stereo, but i digress). Came to me saying that it skips at the slightest hint of a bassdrum kick on multiple records. The fact that the headshell (if you want to call it that) can rotate on the arm with very little effort was the least of this examples problems... and it came with it at an angle from the factory.
I'm not even sure if I should bother trying to fix this and get a diamond stylus for it or have her just return it for something else. For now I told her not to play any records with it to not damage them accidentally. I know it was a good intention of her parents but this particular unit seemed more like an insult even to me with not very high standards (I'm fine with something like a basic Fisher MT-6410) :/
@@Knaeckebrotsaege If it's overtly defective (and it sounds like it is), best course of action would be to either exchange it for another one in hopes of getting a better copy, or return it for a refund and go up the next rung of the ladder to something like an AT-LP60 (if your friend isn't insistent on it being a portable/all-in-one).
A lot of the skipping on new records is due to a combination of dirt in the grooves and poor mastering with too much low bass frequencies. As I talked about in my video about the AT-LP60X, some new records will skip constantly, even on a good turntable, until you clean and play them several times to get all the debris and vinyl burrs removed from the grooves.
I like searching around for secondhand higher end stuff. Better than spending the same money on worse stuff, and and I get to feel superior 😂
Diamonds don't wear out. 500 hours of being the hardest thing in the world? And you replace them? Edison diamond disc players from 1918 still have the original diamond and they track at around 3 ounces, and nobody thinks of replacing them even though they are 100 years old.
I think when people talk about looking for vintage turntables, they're talking about upper entry to mid level Technics, Teac, Pioneer, etc... Mostly very good tables found today for much lower prices than their modern equivalents... And not necessarily referring to BSR-like plastic junk.
These BSRs are actually largely made of metal, but that doesn't necessarily make them any better than all-plastic turntables.
That's true of all vintage electronics. People say "Cassette players are amazing. My Nakamichi Dragon cassette player sounds as good as a CD" and I ask myself "How about the affordable cassette players that made up the bulk of the market in the 70's and 80's? How do they compare with a CD?"
Don't forget though, that BSR, like most other turntable manufacturers also had a range of decks, from the inexpensive (like this particular on) up to the for the time (1970) expensive MacDonald MP60/P128R 'Profesional' non-changer. I have a fully working P128R in my collection, and it uses the basic same mechanism as this one, except that most of plastic parts on this, are metal on the P128. The platter is heavy aluminium, with a pressed steel inner hub for the idler to run against. It also has a cartridge 'slide' that allows for easy cartridge changing. It also features a solid metal tonearm with adjustable counterweight which will happily track at 1.5grams and up.
Stick a nice old Shure M75 tracking at 2.0grams in that deck and it really sings.
So just because it says BSR on it doesn't automatically make them "plastic junk"
@@stevesstuff1450 Honestly -- people get so caught up in branding that they don't want to take a second to actually look at build quality.
@@BlaBla-pf8mf Dragons, refurbed, cost close to £1000 on eBay. That's well over $1000. Wonder how much they cost new back in the 80s? I also wonder what source Dragon users record from? Even on a Dragon the sound from the source cannot be improved upon. Musicassettes? Forget about them.
When you first set the stylus on the record for the first time, I laughed so hard. Fauxnoghaph.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Fauxnograph must be the electronic version of the Crapophones sold on Ebay. They "look like" (to the undiscerning eye) Victorian-era gramophones but use the mechanism from 1960's Indian-made portable gramophones (made down to a price affordable to rural people with no electricity), connected up to pretty but bad-sounding brass horns. To be fair a lot of Ebay sellers now say they're "decoration only". Or maybe they ran out of mechanisms and the things actually don't work.
@Kent Teffeteller Are you kidding me, a V.M changer could not hold a candle to a B.S.R changer. V.M. changers run fast or slow, there motors run hot,and dry out the idle wheel. Even a B.S.R mini changer is better than aV.M
R.
thank you from 4 years in the future for this video, your video is the only documentation i could find for the 6730A while i was trying to fix mine. turns out i had the same gunk on the spindle issue and it stuck the table to the spindle!
I grew up with these, our stereos in the 70s were almost always some form of a BSR unit, kind of like today where many turntables come from China. Of course I was a kid so I just used whatever my mom had set up in the living room or bought for our rooms. And yes, they always had the "diamond stylus" sticker on them. They were definitely low grade stuff, but as long as they were cared for and didn't have severe mis-tracking issues (and we refrained from placing pennies on the tonearm) they were fine. They didn't destroy our records any more than Crosley suitcase players destroy records today. I still have a lot of those old records in my collection, and they still look and play AWESOME. My sisters old records on the other hand...I don't know what she did with those things but good lord some of her stuff is in bad condition. That just proves to me - if you handle your stuff with care it will last you a lifetime. In most cases, anyway.
The best thing about this is the built in 45 adaptor.
Well, you know, for what it is, plugged into a compatible amplifier, it actually sounds 'half decent'... And the fact that it is still working perfectly today, some 30-40 years after it left the factory (after a bit of re-greasing), says something about the longevity and quality of the parts used in even this bargain-basement BSR player!
I have a better, proper HiFi version of this from 1970 which, after much cleaning, re-greasing, and a new idler wheel, is as good as was 51 years ago.... the same basic deck and mechanics as seen on the one in the video, just that mine has a far better arm, includes 78rpm, has a much better motor, and is intended for a magnetic cartridge, so can track as low as 1 gram: - dependant on cartridge!
Those old BSR decks are often derided just because they produced some really cheap plastic crap later in the 70s/80s.... but even that was still based off the original strong early 70s design! Their good metal based designs are solid, sturdy, sound great, and still work perfectly, some 50 years later!
See VWestlife's video about the origin/genesis of Crosley cheap plastic players... it's quite surprising (if you haven't already seen it! ;-) )
Well, I'll be!!! Happy New Year VWestlife!! I hope you're well. We missed you in the brief time since your last offering!
It's amazing the dust cover is in such good shape considering how few of those survived even on nice turntables
My man, I appreciate your indepth review, even on this POS (when compared to good vintage players). Thanks for the education!
Gives us an idea of what to beware of, anyway. I'm not grumpy at this for being a cheap record player, but I am annoyed at how it tries to camouflage its cheapness. Come on, BSR, you couldn't put a thread on the counterweight and arm to make it actually adjustable, yet you put fake knurling on it? Grr.
When I was in Vietnam, most of the GI's were buying stereo parts and getting them shipped home, many, however shipped home and forgot to make allowances for getting their stuff shipped, so they sold it to other GI's. That was how I got my first real turntable, a Pioneer PL50. Then I had to buy a larger receiver so it could drive the table, then speakers that sounded right, then, of course the reel to reel player. Man I was READY, then one afternoon the runner from the head shed came with orders. I was shipping North, to I Corps to replace some commo folks who, well failed to return from a mission. I had 12 hours to pack my shit and get to the airport to fly out. There was a lot of action in my hooch, as my roomy did a small auction sale on my stereo system, and within 6 hours, I was air born for Lam Sam 719. It wasn't till about ten years ago that I managed to find a buy on a Pioneer turntable, while not my cherished PL51 it looks about the same, plays great and is belt drive professional model that looks like it just came out of the box. She needed a bit of cleaning and lubing before she worked, and again, my cheap amp could not drive it without a pre-amp. I found a nice used SONY AM/FM/RECEIVER/AMP that works great and plays the old records that my good wife and I have collected over our 51 years of wedded bliss. I picked up a fairly decent set of speakers so that problem solved. Problem is, my hearing aides are not quite good enough for me to pick up on the music no matter how well the equipment reproduces it. That's what I get for going to war I guess and 24 years on the PD probably didn't do a lot of good for my hearing as well. Wife is getting her new aids this afternoon I hope we will have about equal hearing then so we don't have to shout across the living room any more.
Great video! BSR was so ubiquitous in the 1960's, their turntables were everywhere. And in those days, they were considered about the way many people consider Crosley and the like today. They were never high end. Also, did you know that BSR made reel to reel tape transports? They were used in educational "language learning" tape recorders made by Rheem and Audiotronics!
Happy Belated New Year, VWestlife!
There's very few good finds out there because everyone things they have gold, including cheap junk like this. Honestly, if someone wants cheap, that Aiwa you showed off in another video (which was part of a 90s shelf system) would be a great affordable vintage starter table for $20 or so. My grandmother has the same table and I just repaired it for her and it sounds great.
I have no issues recommending the AT-LP60 for a casual record fan, especially when it's on sale.
To say something nice about the BSR is that someone much smarter than me could rip the guts out and mod it in such a way to fit a better turntable in it because at least it looks nice with that large dust cover.
Yes. The AT-LP60 is for the casual user a great turntable. I picked up 4 of them at a liquidation place for 30$ each to resell and every single one I have sold has gotten rave reviews...are they audiophile certified? No, but as you say for the casual listener or someone just getting into vinyl they are a great starter table.
The gold comment is so true. When I browse fleabay for TTs it's always good for a laugh.
My turntable is a Kenwood that looks like it's off an all-in-one system, but has it's own plug regardless. Does the job and cost bugger all. I found a spec sheet online that says it has a magnetic cartridge, but I'm really not sure about that.
@@jackallen6261 It's not terrible, but that's not saying much. The lack of counterweight is why I wouldn't recommend them to anyone starting in the hobby. If they want to upgrade the cartridge to something better, they're sort of SOL without upgrading the whole table first.
That aiwa is back when sony bought aiwa and I believe was made by Sony. I have the aiwa as well as a Sony and the internals are nearly identical.
4:39 sounds like how I imagine Stalingrad to have sounded
That built-in 45 adaptor is a brilliant idea. I wish all turntables had that.
Just won't work for changers
Excellent educational video on the pitfalls of a vintage turntable
Super informative. Thank you for this. I have a DUAL with an amazing Shure and preamp NAD, so no issues with my set up, but nice to see your video.
I generally avoid ceramic cartridge turntables because of the tinny sound, but it's good to know that bass response can be improved when paired with a high impedance input. I used to own a BSR equalizer that I really liked that was ordered through the DAK catalog, so my experience with this brand is not all bad.
By that time the real BSR in Great Britain had ceased to exist, so DAK acquired the rights to use their name, and put it on all sort of electronic products, even including computers and CD-ROM drives.
Superb as usual! Thanks for this video!
Thanks for the BSR memories! Important safety tip from my high school self circa 1983..... when sanding down the BSR motor shaft to reduce over-speed, 1) go in small increments and play records again. 2) DO NOT allow metal flakes to get into the internals of the player/stereo. Bad, bad ground loops may be in your future! Though tapping on the player seemed to hep. ....I was so glad when I got my first direct drive magnetic cartridge turntable by 1984!
Excellent review! I remember last year when I got a stand-alone Magnavox Collaro Micromatic record changer from 1967 and it’s still a lot better than BSR, and works perfectly. When I first got it last year when it was originally a portable, the cabinet was busted up since it was in poor shape, except the changer survived. After a lot of cleaning and lubricating and a new cartridge installed, it plays fine, but the problem is that it was too loud for the phono input due to the ceramic cartridge being installed, and when I tried the aux input, it sound tinny lacking the bass. And when I got my Realistic SA-10 connected to my Maggie, it sounds a lot better with the ceramic phono input.
3:12 That reminds me of those Chinese ODM* portable DVD "EVD" players that sometimes have stickers like "Uses (well-known brand) laser" or "(well-known brand) lens inside", but then it's branded by some off-brand or white label brand like "Akira"**, and has all those weird quirks of such devices like the analogue TV tuner, (sometimes) FM radio, and built-in NES emulator that includes a disc full of bootleg NES games.
*"Original Design Manufacturer"
**Singaporean brand, but named to sound Japanese.
comes with free Bootleg NES games? Awesome!
@@raymondleggs5508
Yeah, a lot of them did. The included disc was usually a yellow mini CD labelled "Super Game 300" (sic) and was formatted as a VCD, and had stolen artwork from some media, however, a lot of the newer ones had the option to load ROMs from the data disc menu, but weren't compatible with some, including those that used the PRG1 lockout chip on the original hardware.
Holy shit i forgot about those, Rerez made a video about them
And to think that all integrated home stereo appliances sold in my country during the 70s came equipped with BSR record changers. We had no comparison points back then, but to me it was very obvious that they were really bad. And yes, all of them spun too fast and that drove me nuts. BTW, still remember the stylus: The Normarh 52D (for Tetrad cartridges), made in Colombia.
Prior to the mid 1970s, BSR made their own line of Ful-Fi cartridges, mostly ceramic.
I had one of these, virtually identical aside from the curved tonearm. Mine was a P259 and it is indeed a BSR, though a very low-end model.
BSR is oft frowned on, and almost always based on something like this. Many earlier models, though, are fairly respectable, having metal mechanicals and platters, and some were even fitted with the 'wide' headshell that'll accept a standard 1/2 inch mount, and mind blown, some were even fitted with magnetic cartridges. The four speed and early 3-speed units are best, especially if they have that Panasonic EPC32 cartridge (higher-end ceramic).
I have a early 1970s four speed BSR (yes, 16 rpm too!) with cueing lever, adjustable tracking (no counterweight, but the spring is adjustable), metal platter, anti-skate, and I've fitted it with an AT3600 cartridge tracking at 3 grams. Sounds pretty good. Gave it a decent platter mat to muffle the rumble a bit and replaced the drop spindle with a manual 'stub' spindle. Those early BSRs were built like tanks and with just a little maintenance they'll run forever. Mine does have the genetic disease that most BSRs have, though - it does run slightly fast, and there's no easy way to address that. I have considered converting it to a DC motor drive but that's a little more involved than I want to get.
Incidentally, Crosley had a license from BSR to produce the very last autochanger ever made, the Crosley Stack-o-Matic. It is literally a copy of the typical 1970s BSR changer; even the mounting points are the same. The only differences are the Stacko uses a DC motor, belt drive mechanism (as opposed the AC synchronous motor/rim drive a BSR does), and the Stacko comes with the Crosley type cartridge.
I used to slow down BSRs by holding a file against the running motor
@@vaughntonkin539 Yeah. You gotta be REAL CAREFUL filing down the motor shaft, though - and bear in mind that this is non-reversible. If it's a common 2- or 3-speed unit, I'd be okay with it. The 4-speed units are starting to get scarce, though, and the motors (with the 4-step shaft) are unique to those models, so I'm hesitant to make any changes that cannot be reversed. I'll use them to convert my records to digital and address minor speed concerns in software.
Awesome video and very clean system. I have a huge cupboard full of retro gear. 23 turntables infact. Have my faves and rotate. Have 3 spare changers (bsr) Plus you've introduced a new artist too. Cheers from the land down under ☮️
I sure did learn something. Thanks VWL.
Not all BSR turntables are bad. I have a turntable built in to my 1968 "The Fisher 125" stereo system with a metal plinth, a metal platter, direct drive and a pickering V-15 moving magnet cartridge. I love the sound from it and as long as it keeps working I see no reason to replace it. If the time comes that I ever do need to replace it I'll go with Fluance or something like that, but that will be a sad day for me because I will sorely miss having a fully automatic changer.
My parents had a Fisher console also from 1968 that included a BSR turntable with Shure M44 cartridge. They upgraded to a Shure M91ED cartridge soon after getting it. The BSR turntables of that era were definitely better than what came later, but I'm almost certain it was a puck (idler wheel) drive and not direct.
I, too, have a fully working BSR record deck with a heavy metal turntable. It also has the four standard speeds and a four pole synchronous motor.
When I look at the decks being produced nowadays for those budget retro record-players, I cringe ! Even the cheapest BSR & Garrard record decks were "Rolls-Royce's", compared to the bargain basement cheap all plastic imported decks of today.
Even through my laptop's tiny speakers, that sounds better than my Crosley Cruiser, because the Cruiser only has tweeters for speakers. If you hooked that table up to the Realistic SA-155 with a cheap pair of Realistic speakers (MC 800 in my case, which makes a great upgrade for my laptop), you'll blow away the Crosley, and in fact, I'm guessing most young people who only know streaming, cell phones and Crosley systems will think the Realistic is a true "audiophile" system by comparison! Rumble was very much a part of these old plastic tables. In fact, even though I have much nicer tables now, I'm starting to miss my old plastic Garrard with its fake plastic counterweight and the gentle rumble of the idler during the soft passages on Blue Oyster Cult's Agents of Fortune, which must be heard through cheap plastic Craig headphones to be fully appreciated! (I wonder if that old Garrard is in my garage somewhere...) I would recommend a plastic BSR if you can get it for $20 or less, over a new Crosley, but only for thrift store records that may benefit from the lack of detail you get with a ceramic cart, especially if you already got the SA-155 setup for cheap also.
That almost looks like an old Thomas turntable I used to own. The amplifier that came with it actually had a ceramic input along with a magnetic cartridge input. The turntable mechanism looks actually the same.
Watching your videos makes me really appreciate my Dual 1246 😂 I know it’s a nice player (about 1000 in todays money) but just seeing the specs and hearing these ones vs mine makes me feel like I got a deal. Spent 100 and it functions perfectly, but with no dust cover. I use a custom fabric one or just put an empty plastic sleeve over the platter and tone arm
the 2nd turntable i had (back in 2001) was a Candle ''integrated stereo system'' with this turntable (i bought it from a friend). I used it just one year until the platter began to shaking (probably due to lack of lubrication )
I bought a BSR Quanta 400 back in 1979.
I had an AKG cartridge on it, which I later replaced with a Grado Black.
It was a wonderful starter turntable that cost me just over 100 dollars brand new.
Thanks for your videos, all they are quite enjoyable.
Wow, that turntable is amazingly deceptive! I love that realistic SA-155, but mine is branded RCA, I remember I miss Realistic brand, and Optimus. Such amazing stuff for the money. I still have most of the stuff I purchased. 3 hour radio shack store runs... miss those days so much! Now it’s 3 hour Ebay and amazon hunting I suppose. Lol.
Now that has me thinking, what do you think designated the naming at Radio Shack? Like the model numbers never changed but the Realistic, Optimus, and RCA name branding were all interchangeable. Realistic was phased out but optimus and RCA were out at the same time and I wonder what was the deciding factor that made them choose what of the brands to put on the model at any given time for any given reorder of any given product. It seemed so random but I am sure they had a method to the madness. I think they thought RCA was trusted in areas more like the Midwest but that is the only guess i can come up with. Sorry for changing the topic at hand just triggered seeing that amp in the video :)
Radio Shack's in-house store brands like Realistic had gained a reputation of being cheap, so in the early '90s they came out with the Optimus name to make their audio equipment sound more sophisticated, and then in 2000 they acquired the rights to use the RCA brand name on their products, so a lot of the former Realistic/Optimus products were rebadged as RCA.
RCA was an actual US manufacturing company until GE bought it and split up the company. The consumer electronics brand is owned by Technicolor (formerly Thompson Consumer products), who licenses it out to other companies. Currently Curtis Electronics is a licensee of the RCA brand.
My parents had bought me a slightly older version of Realistic amp that Kevin showed, SA-101 for my first magnetic cartridged turntable in 1979, but mine had a vinyl wood grained finish. One of the reasons I enjoy watching Kevin's videos are the memories of the old gear I had or repaired or remember seeing at the time.
I had an ATLP60BT and it was great. I've upgraded since, but it was a very serviceable player with no major issues, especially if the rest of your equipment is not fancy.
Thanks for such an interesting and informative video!
That record adapter is super nice to be honest, first time seeing one and wish I had that build in
I worked at the plant (formerly BSR) in stourbridge west midlands. They were making wheelchairs and mobility stuff kn the same shopfloor after BSR closed down. My frinds wife worked their on the BSR line before me till they bankrupted in the early 80's. I always had good luck with my bsr players and I had one of their more upscale (ADC branded) turntables with magnetic cartridge and strobe. wish I still had that.
Excellent video! Just a few years ago it took days of internet searching to find anyone explaining why ceramic cartridges sound tinny and how to fix it. You've made this subject easy to understand. You even explained how to fix the speed on a BSR! Something that definitely improves the sonic value of these turntables. Personally I'd take most BSRs over the cheaper Crosleys. I have to say though that Crosley has been releasing some pretty nice stuff during the last few years.
It blows my mind that Crosley doesn't market their C8 turntable. That is a well built quality turntable with a beautiful walnut finish.
Love your content! Keep it up!
Thanks for sharing that website. I just used it and found a replacement stylus for my vintage AT15ss cartridge.
I got a crosley c100 for Xmas and it sounds a lot better than my old cruiser. It has a counterweight, antiskate, and it has a metal tonearm and aluminum platter. Also, the cartridge is an AT3600 cartridge
Once you get away from those suitcase things, and those all-in-ones, Crosley can make some halfway decent stuff. I've found their Collegiate models to be not too awfully shabby. Certainly on-par with many portables of old.
This turntable turns your music into EARRAPE!
versedbridge 400 me
I used to have a BSR turntable like the one in the video. Only my model actually used a BSR SC-12H cartridge (not a tetrad). The cartridge leads were also contained in a plastic "shield" which allowed easy cartridge replacement. Then there's the counterweight. Although it appears that the weight can not be adjusted? I discovered that with the use of a small jeweler's screwdriver. You can actually loosen a screw on the bottom and the weight can in fact be removed. Finally as far the sound quality goes. I remember hearing a lot of rich bass coming out my second hand stereo
GREAT VID. I have the exact one in my basement that's been there for years because I don't have records. It originally was my parents that somehow ended up in my house. Now I know where to get a replacement needle...I may actually use it. 😆
It's kind of funny, years and years ago I passed up a Dual that was being sold for a very good price because it looked too much like a BSR haha, so I ended up with the Sanyo.... and while the Sanyo isn't such a bad unit, the Dual would have blown it right out of the water. Also, I always found it kind of interesting how a turntable with a ceramic cartridge needs to be plugged into a ceramic phono input and not a regular line level input, but any other line level device can be plugged into a ceramic phono input, or a regular line input and sound the same.
A ceramic phono cartridge has a piezoelectric transducer which is very sensitive to impedance, while the output of a typical tape deck, CD player, etc. is not.
Glad you made this, heard this rumor first hand
5:58 Interesting! Now i finally found out what the switch on my Onkyo Integra A-8015 Receiver means that lets you switch between "MM" and "MC" Cartridge. Thanks a lot :) That cleared quite some confusion i had for nearly 14 years now.
Actually in that case MC stands for Moving Coil -- a fancy, low-output type of magnetic cartridge. (MM is Moving Magnet, the standard type of magnetic cartridge.)
@@vwestlife interesting. Could never really find any reliable info about that anywhere. :o
"Quanta 420" I'm guessing this is connected to a REALLY HIGH impedance input?!?....I'll see my self out.
GET OUT...oh, you were already leaving.
ill get the door, thanks
Many people who suggest going vintage are thinking of the vintage market a few years back and haven't checked more recently. Most of the real bargains are gone. People are hanging onto their used Dual and Bang & Olaufson and repairing their vintage Pioneers, while e-bay is still flush with turntables that are probably only worth about $50 or less. Good video!
I had to laugh at the 45 adapter launching itself into the next Zip code!, It wanted to escape! (Hoping to be adopted by a Dual 510,perhaps?)
OH!! I remember those ceramic cartridge turntables. And they also track very heavily.
Of all the videos that you posted, I think this is the worst sounding turntable that you posted. I still appreciate your videos. You know what you're doing and I've learned a couple things from you. Thank you for sharing.
You still get a like from me.
At 13:37, the chassis also has the mounting holes for the 4-pole motor. Almost every BSR chassis from the 1970s has mounting holes for both 2-pole and 4-pole motors, except for the C154 and its facelifted variant, the C217 which only have the motor mounts for a 2-pole motor.
Back at the warehouse, I would try to convert all the standalone BSR changers to 4-pole motors so it would be easy to eventually switch to a magnetic cartridge.
I recently picked up an MA 50 for $5 and shipping, it has a P-189 deck but it is a single play, manual turntable. I added a velocity equalizer circuit on it so i can use it with a standard preamp. It looks identical to a regular BSR changer but the mechanism is completely stripped, only has the shaft for the platter, cue lever, tonearm, and the on/off switch as well as the 3-speed mechanism. It too has a Tetrad cartridge and headshell.
I’ve been thrifting regularly for over ten years, guess how many times I’ve found a semi decent turntable- just once.
I actually found a really nice Technics turntable in a thrift store a few months back that just needed a good cleaning and it works just like the day it was built. I bought it for the Audio Technica cartridge that was mounted on it but once I got it home I found the turntable was really the prize. I have used a Pioneer PL-112D fully manual belt drive turntable for many years and have had many enjoyable hours of clean, no noise music from it. I was caught off guard by this Technics SL-1D fully manual direct drive turntable. For less than $30.00 I have a turntable that is worth far more than I paid for it. Both the Pioneer and the Technics have adjustable counter weights with removable head shells. Sometimes you can get a real jewel from thrift stores. You just have to know what you are looking at.
I think some people believe that it's possible to learn everything there is to know about vinyl in two day's . This is a life time hobby that will take you by surprise . A bargain could be just around the corner or money could be wasted on something you eventually hate and have to get rid of.
Glpi lpi k
I found a pretty decent teac turntable that lasted about a month before it tried to play on it's own and scuffed the needle on the rubber mat and made horrible mecganical noises. It still worked good enough until my cat knocked it off my hifi setup and shattered the lid and now it plays like shit
Every turntable i found since almost always has the needle snapped in half. How does that happen?
I worked in the UK domestic retail Audio Equipment market from the 60's to 80's, the one turntable that was always in demand and refurbished was the Pioneer PL 12D belt drive it had a lot going for it but mostly build quality another favorite was the Goldring Lenco for the same reason, I use the Pioneer and very happy.
i love your turntable vids, keep em up! -14 year old vinyl addict
what a bullshit turntable btw
@@cubik4791 HEY hello! I love BSR why you hate them...
@@cubik4791 i have TOSCA15 with new speakers and it soudns awesome
@@cubik4791 it sounds more natural....and its nostalgic
Hey, this one looks very much like the turntable in my dad's music center. Same screw position, same J-shape arm that had no adjustability whatsoever and only accepted ceramic cartridges, similar plastic platter... The music center itself was basically the Silver (Shin-Shirasuna) SS3500, but with the turntable I mentioned instead of the BSR-made changer.
My grandma's stereo has that same model changer in. Stereo is Montgomery word from the late 70s not the best but gets job done.
My first record player was an old Philips from the 1960s. I didn't have a dedicated phono input on the old Grundig tape recorder I used as amplifier (many old r-t-r recorders from the 1960s could be used as amplifiers) but if I soldered a capacitor across each of the cables from the pick-up it actually sounded pretty good even though I had to use the radio input plug. I later learned that many cheap amplifiers simply use this method of 'equalizing' the signal from a ceramic pick-up. Later I got an ITT receiver and a Technics record player with magnetic pick-up.
The BSR range of changers had exactly the same reputation in days of old as Crosley has now. Nobody would intentionally get a BSR to play records. They would come fitted as standard to cheap music centres.
The fact is though they are built with far superior materials to the modern Crosley, but that is not saying much. I guess if you tried you could manage to improve the performance to something reasonable. Something you can't do with plastic and chipboard.
Some of the BSR turntables were not so bad. To the best of my knowledge they all did use that cheap idler system, but they also made turntables for Radio Shack which sold them under the Realistic brand and called them the "Lab-XXX" series. My Dad owned one and it had a unique way of mounting the cartridge. The cartridge was mounted on a "slider" that could be removed from the headshell and have another cartridge that could be mounted. It would also accommodate magnetic phono cartridges. My Dad always preferred Empire cartridges which are no longer being made.
@@williamjones4483 Yes they certainly made more upmarket respectable performers, and even direct drive models toward the end of the 70s which may have been the Realistic badged units. The top of the line was the BSR Quanta direct drive which looked like a Japanese model in appearance. They were not regarded well by the purists though who still wouldn't touch 'em. There were of course at that time a plethora of models to choose from and all at a similar price. BSR just couldn't compete in the HiFi market.
@@williamjones4483 PS Empire was one of the great American audio companies with a long history and many wonderful things..including one of the finest turntables too.
@@martinda7446 Interesting. I never knew that Empire made turntables also. I know my Dad swore by their magnetic cartridges though.
@@williamjones4483 Google Empire 298 398 698 ... if you haven't already))
I think this is a matter of people not doing their research. BSR made some decent changers. The 810 is on par with any mid range Dual or Elac changer from the 70s. They had changers with magnetic cartridges (I see a lot of them with entry level Shures), metal platters, and antiskate/counterweight controls. However, you have to realize BSR was always focused on the downstream market which is why you see so many all-plastic junkers with ceramic carts.
Absolutely! I had turntables starting in the '70s. The only turntables like these Croseley's were essentially toys you might give your kid brother or sister to play their favorite 45s. The idea of people playing $30 vinyl LPs on something like that is crazy. I should mention that I no longer buy vinyl, it's been CDs for me since the '80s.
I restored my Dad's Dual 1245, sounds great.
These decks were built to a price for peaple on a budget I had one for a long time and it served me well
The thrift store find-of-my-life was a Technics SL-1500 MK1 that appeared to be broken, but really just had dirty contacts on the speed controls. Best $5 I ever spent.
Other than that, I've never seen a good turntable at a thrift shop.
I had a BSR turntable back in the day, but it wasn't like this at all. It was belt driven, with an Audio Technica QLM33 magentic cartridge and a real tonearm. The only thing that let it down was that the platter had a slight warp in it. BSR were good enough to send me a replacement but it still wasn't perfect. Otherwise though it performed well enough when fitted with a better mat.
I picked up a Gemini PT-1000 II as my first turntable for $15. Great copy of Technics 1200 aimed more for DJs.
One of this BSR turntables i bought as teenager in 1981 and i ordered it from a catalog. The photo looked so good and high class, hahahahaha. S-tone arm, plate with stroboscope ( just decoration of course ) And i believed it. It was a BSR turntable with amplifier and 2 loudspeakers. And when arrived, i was a disappointed. The pattern was just silver color, the plate was plastic and a little smaller then a LP. And i hate the feeling to put the discs on that plastic plate. The sound was not "sooo bad", but at that time i knew nothing about high end sound. More important at that time was a bass regulation :-)) not just a treble. One amplifier channel not lives for long. And in the radio shop here, they said, that they can not repair such cheap amplifiers with such cheap ingredients from the east. So the cheap turntable time came to and end for me.
My new turntable is the Audio technica AT-LPGO-BT (Wal-Mart AT-LP60XBT). For about $175 because it includes Bluetooth, this is a fine starter turntable. Press the "start" button, and the player starts playing the record, automatically. Press stop to bring the tone arm back. When it finishes that side the arm comes back and stops spinning the platter.
My 1970s BSR changer is one of the nicer ones with a metal platter, solid construction, and good magnetic pick up. The quality of BSR changers and phonographs seemed to really take a dip going into the 80s with more and more of the turntables being constructed from plastic. I guess at the very least you could service them to keep them running well, unlike the "Crosleys" and "Victrolas" of today.
I got a portable victrola for christmas and am actually pretty stoked about it. I have a pioneer pl100 I bought and refurbished from a garage sale as my main player, and now have a small player to take on the go. 90% of my collection is used vinyl so I'm not afraid at all of the fear mongering around the victrola/crosley style turntables.
@@jamescarter3196 You sound like fun at parties. I care more about having fun in the short amount of time we have on earth than making sure all my vinyl outlives me. I have particular albums of importance that I keep in good condition, but thrift store "best of"s and already well loved albums I don't mind flinging at a cheap 5g stylus that might get worn out a little faster than my more expensive 2g one.
4:40 man that nice warm vinyl sound😊
I own a TEAC model.P-A688 full automatic turntable which i bought in 1993 it's hooked to a Sony model LBT-D159 receiver/AM-FM stereo with 6 band EQ dual cassette player recorder & 5 disc player plus 2 3 way speakers. The TEAC sounds great thru the system. If i was considering a turntable new or vintage i'd go with vintage.
Now I have a BSR record changer that came from an Emerson multiplex I remember mentioned it before. Now the cartridge that one has is different from what you have . mine has 2 screws on the tone arm so I can change it to whatever I want as far as that goes. Its from 1978 has no plinth as of yet but gonna try buy one or make my own and I'm thinking of what cartridge be good for it. Mine sounded quite good til the amplifier was going out plus wood wasn't staying together and other parts failed. Also my turntable the tone arm is way different from this has spring for tracking force anti skating knob and 33-45-78 with size selector . I'll be happy to have a plinthe for it and then replace the 2 screw held in cartridge and wiring . then I can have a good sounding turntable that's vintage.
I usually enjoy your great videos about vynil because they really teach me a lot, thanks. Is there any chane that you might make a whole video about inner groove distortion and how to fix it? Because I've been trying new turntables and upgrading cartridges and still not been able to get rid of it. And I'm getting a bit disheartened about the whole thing. Thanks!
A cheap (say 5 bucks) BSR changer makes for a fun weekend refurbishing project. But you should definitely get something better to play your own records.
We used to call BSR turntables "British Standard Rumble" Cheaper Garrards also had too much rumble. Fauxnograph, nice!
At 14:07, regarding the speed adjustment, in my vintage Magnavox turntable (Imperial Micromatic Collaro) which is the same drive, there is a screw adjustment to raise or lower the idler wheel on the stepped spindle. The steps are not parallel, but slightly angled toward the center from bottom to top, so as the idler wheel goes up or down in the step, the spin speed changes slightly so you can actually dial in the correct speed.
Unfortunately this design does not have that feature.
Good video , that mechanism reminds me of a tape deck lol 😉 alot the technics turntables had the pull up adaptor things didn't they used to break thou. 🤔Birmingham sound reproducers was the UK company you prob know that anyway. 😉
On Dual systems the idler wheel spindle is conical, allowing for speed adjustment by moving the wheel slightly up or down on the tapered spindle. Smart eh? Mine still holds a pretty steady rpm despite having a slightly worn idler wheel.
I play my records on a Crowley Stack-O-Magic CR 89 and it allows me to stack a few albums at the same time which prevents me from having to keep changing the record after one side ends. Whether it damages my vinyl or not, isn’t my main concern. I love the experience so much that it outweighs the minimal possibility of vinyl damage which is debatable.
Oh and the Garrard turntables that had a different metal composite centre spindle to deck slot that seized the spindle to the turntable platter (often plastic with metal insert) if left for some time without use. 👀
Hello, thanks for the video. It's great.
I recently received as a gift a device with an identical BSR turntable. I have a question - should the center shaft rotate or is it fixed? My turntable was also faulty, but I managed to start it. Now I am doing a complete restoration. My center shaft is rotating pretty hard a half of circle... Thank you.
Double irony here... I've had a ceramic fully-automatic BSR w/changer, and have a mid-60s Motorola cabinet stereo in storage with that exact same Diamond Stylus sticker on the plinth.
BTW... Best turntable I've had: A Pioneer PL-300 w/mid-level ($20) Radio Shack cartridge in it. Had to use a pre-amp from them as well, to make it work with my first non-portable stereo, but it served me well... until I replaced it with a belt-drive w/pitch ajustment and electrostatic buttons. Still, I would gladly have another as my "minimal" standard with any system.
My Dad's old HEATHKIT integrated amp from the early 1960s had the switchable magnetic/ceramic option.
bought a BSR w mag cartridge to replace one I bought in a package with other first time bought stereo equipment, it had a swoosh and rumble because of the 2 pole motor,I canned it after a few months,then bought a pioneer PL 10 record player,it crapped out after 5 years,,,, got a united audio turntable german made,,it has worked always tops for 35 years,,a drop of oil into the hub oil well every couple years,,just recently it shows bad howling and a shorted wire somewhere, the tiny hair thin wires are something I cannot work on,
17:00 - 17:21 Our family's record player was running a bit slow, so thought this precocious teenage tinkerer. So with idler wheel removed and motor running I carefully applied enamel model paint with a small brush to the spinning, uh, spindle a little at a time. Let dry, repeat until the spindle's diameter had visibly increased. Reassemble the mechanism, put on a record, voila! Back up to speed if not a bit over compensated.☺ This was not a run-of-the-mill BSR but an RCA AM/FM/phonograph console from about 1956. A unique feature of this console was a knob concentric to the volume knob with 4 phono EQ settings, Ortho, LP, AES, and 78. There were separate headshells for LP and 78 needles, not the cheap flip over type. The 78 headshell had an extra piece of metal in it for more weight. The 45 adapter was a complex mechanism, the bottom rotated with the platter while the top part remained stationary. The console also had the famous tuning eye in the radio's dial. Boy, I miss that console.
Oh also, my father used to have that VERY same device at 07:41 back in the 90's! Or at least one that looked very similar.
Could I interest you in a GE BigMouth radio in near mint condition for a demo and review. I picked it up at a goodwill for a couple bucks with a couple of 8-tracks. It's in perfect working order with the complete antenna. I'd be happy to send it from PA.
Auto-return to the store!
Here is tip if you really must use a ceramic cart . You can put a tube buffer amp between the turntable and the amp and it will boost the sound . i have done this with a turntable and an eight track tape player. it really sounds better than you would think.
Tubes have a naturally high input impedance, so that's why they work great with ceramic phono cartridges. But a solid-state amplifier with a high-impedance input will work fine as well.
My parents had the changer version of this BSR when I was growing up, which also had 16 and 78rpm speeds. IIRC, you could flip the stylus over to play 78s on the same cartridge. It suffered from rumble from the synchronous AC motor, and had significant mains hum mixed in with the audio. It didn't have any pretensions to hi-fi quality, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone whose prime interest is music playback.