Cheap, Easy Power Where You Least Expect To Find It
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- Опубліковано 21 лют 2021
- There are differences between street and race headers, the most important of which have to do with the collectors. Here's how to tune your street tubes to match the specific needs of your car.
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Not many of the old grey beards around anymore its a lost art Old Tony Really knows the art. I thought I was the only one left.
That's NOT gray, It's Chrome!
I got lucky and found a slant six 225 in a 1987 dodge ram d100 with only 65,000 original miles
I was born in 76' thank goodness I got to spend 95'&1996 helping Micky Holmes in his fully tooled machine shop in his barn....
He built and operated his machine shop mostly so he could keep his boy on the dirt track... While we were building 390s and 460s Micky filled my head with stories of how he did things back in the day when he had just got back from fighting a war in France. I can imagine how my life would have turned out if it were not for a chance introduction with micky and he told a 19 yr old kid to come back anytime. That goofy kid came back everyday until his was with cancer was finally over...
They a few of us young beards around to that have the knowledge because we grew up around and learned from grey beards like you all lol. Hotrodding It's still alive and well my friend
Fear not Old Head. There’s more of us in the making!
"Kitchen rebuild" I love it. I remember a Buddy years ago that rebuilt his Harley in his kitchen. I dropped in several months later, and I saw a black strip across the kitchen floor and a busted up lower kitchen cabinet! I said "WTF?" He replied "it's all good, runs great!" Lol... That's a kitchen rebuild! :-)
Thank you for not bringing up “back pressure”.
He covered that already. I think the vid was titled "The BS about backpressure".
Why ? Back pressure has a big play on things. Trust me. I’m 30 yrs old now still have my first car. My ‘72 Vette 350 lt1 4spd. When I was 16 I put a 2.5 inch exhaust on it. Straight back, each their own pipe coming from the manifolds no X or H in the middle. Now yeah she sounded good. That grumble.. the pops and bangs were worth it on decel alone. But I lost some down low punch. I could literally feel the difference...
oh and the gas mileage went down.. that was noticeable too cus that 4 barrel quadrajet carb was thirsty already. And I barely knew squat about anything back then car wise. So yeah. Back pressure matters bruv. 2.5 inch exhaust an up for big blocks. Keep it 2 and 1/4 or less for small blocks. Real shit I’ve done the tests and have the seat time. If you believe me or not is up to you. I mean I prob wouldn’t believe my dumbass but it’s the truth from my experience.
@@beezy7412 what you experienced makes absolute sense but was due to a lack of proper exhaust scavenging, not backpressure. The crossover is what provides scavenging between two pipes which is why vehicles rarely run truly separate exhaust pipes (and why headers are collected into a single pipe). The exhaust pulse from one side pulls the other along via vacuum. Not quite the same thing that people such as Scotty Kilmer would refer to as "backpressure" which would be described as a certain amount of pressure feeding back into the exhaust that for whatever apparent reason is needed for best running of an engine.
A good exhaust system will have tubing that is the appropriate size per the air volume being pumped out and will utilize minimal bends and constrictions so as to allow efficient flow through the exhaust while also having a crossover (if using dual pipes as in a Vette) to allow for proper exhaust scavenging. If a meaningful amount of backpressure is found in the system throughout the RPM range, something was likely not done right.
This is as I understand it, anyway.
@@beezy7412 Also, damn good job managing a 72 Vette as your first car. Hope to have one myself one day.
Scavenging is not back pressure. The idea that engines need back pressure is old 1960 technology. Engines need scavenging. Look at 180 degree headers or 8 into one headers. The jump in horsepower and torque is crazy. It's not because of a change in back pressure. It's because the exhaust becomes more efficient.
We did the slid tube thing back in the 60s and it WORKED great,I could gain 2tenths in just a few minutes!!!!
My dad did it in his Stude him explaining this to me as a kid taught me how length controls airflow in a intake or exhaust and determined powerband and horsepower and torque numbers
Dad used Super Traps on on his Air-Cooled VW Engines.
I'm a chemical engineer and deal with fluids moving through pipes everyday. Couldn't have explained the flow any better myself.
This is especially true when you stick to a single track. Changing to a different sea level and pressure can make some changes to this from one to another.
You see this on tractor pulling engines with upright headers all the time. Perfectly tuned header length with great discoloration right at the very tip of the collector
Wow, I posted something about this on Facebook a week or so ago. I was telling the guys at the shop that more often than not the crossover tube is not in the right place. I said that the car needs to be run with a stripe from a Tyre crayon and see where it burns off to, and that's where the crossover belongs... Blank stares. Heck I am the old man at the shop...
I learned this a few years ago. Tried explaining it to others, but they thought I was talking out my arse. Hope others see this. Love your old school approach. Sick of LS or K swapping everything.
Yeah most morons will argue "because no backpressure!"
Backpressure is created by a restrictive exhaust, which kills performance.
@@Bahlzeron I can't believe people can't comprehend that when you lose the backpressure ,which is what you wanna do, you gotta go thru tuning in your "fuel metering device" again, be it a carb or injection.
I've been telling people for years that street headers (especially shorty headers) are only good for making noise, but I got the same results... nobody listens. They put them on and pretend they're going faster!
@@MrTheHillfolk Well, that is the most common school of thought out there. It's like the old saying, "a lie can travel around the world before the truth can get his shoes tied". Most people know how to tune a carburetor, (or know how to replace jets and turn screws anyway) but they have no idea that exhaust even CAN be tuned. So when they hear, "tune the carb because the exhaust if flowing so much better now", it seems logical.
You can’t beat the knowledge of the Old Dogs. Thanks for the wisdom.
This is so cool! My dad always said I had to use collector extensions and I never totally understood why and now I do! Besides making your car sounds better they also help you go faster :D
Engine Masters did testing on header extension length. It matters. About an 18" extension was perfect for the engine they used. But your engine might need longer or shorter
on a mild built engine it don't matter much street headers are better then stock been proven over and over i want to race him with my 1400 dollar pu i am running just over 700 hp on just pump gas on a stroked 454 but i can add nitro 3 stage plus if u are running a automatic u need to build it makes a big different even with a stock engine like a 02xx trans which is a stock trans but built from factory good to 800 hp stock but easy to build to a 2000 or a 3000 hp trans it pays to know ur shit and how to get this stuff cheap or free like my case. i showed my engine builder the video of him flipping the pistons he laughed at him all he said was that engine will never last this guy builds engine for the big boys . i grew up with the bell family if u know who they are bell helmets and racing gear plus they build engines is what they started with
the best way is to paint each pipe and where the paint stops burning off is where you cut it off
I still remember the procedure from the Mopar racing manual that I purchased from Mancini racing decades and decades ago. You put about it 30-36 in straight pipe at the end of the header and you put a line of paint on it. Wherever the burn mark ends on the paint you go 9-2 18 inches further and you chop it off that's the best exhaust you can do. Works wonders. You do not cut it at the burn mark. Go at least 9 in, I remember correctly 9 to 12 in was actually pretty good. You need all of that turbulent burn to stabilize and it takes at least 8in for that to happen.
Here in Michigan, we won't be racing for another 3 months. If ever again. Two weeks to flatten the Curve, turned into one year, of respect my authoritah!
Whitmer owes me a year of my life back
Very cool video UTG...for those that didn't see his" headers explained" video a year ago, check it out.
Might want to add a brace to that roll bar they tend to be floppy standing alone, just a small back bar stiffens it up alot and will stop it from flipping forward in a roll
Good explanation on header extension. We always had the header extensions in the car for when we dropped the exhaust system at the track. The extension plain works... P.S. Your wife must be a saint......building engine in the kitchen. Since I've done that with a dirt bike, my wife is a good kid, too.
I majored in “High” science in high school. The class was in the parking lot....lol
Hey, me too 😁
Did you take the class in CAD (cardboard aided design), I have heard it is really useful
Was your GPA 4.20. . . . .
Hahaha. I think i passed that class too!. Not sure, I forgot
Thx UT. Very on point details over some of "the little things". It reminds people that those little things are extremely important to the overall performance of their build. Well put
Just seen a video from dulcich, then uncle Tony's new vid in my feed, and it made me think of something... Uncle Tony and dulcich really need to get together on some type of build.. maybe another crop duster type project maybe even on an episode of Roadkill? Which the crop duster episode is one of if not my favorite episodes because it shows them doing it in the true hot-rodders fashion of using what you have laying around to put together a hot rod I'm not having to go out and act like you don't have a budget and buy all the nicest fanciest parts and throwing stuff in the scrap bin that alot of guys would really love to have...
This is why I am subscribed to this channel!
Automotive street science! This guy is the best! Knowledge and truth through experiencing. Thank you!!!
Always interesting and informative. Thank you Uncle Tony
First time I've seen anyone address the back half of the headers - the collector - in 40 years. I was wondering if anyone even remembered this vital area of information anymore. Looking at the way cars get put together would suggest that no one does. I was delighted to see Uncle Tony address this. Uncle Tony, you're The Boss.
P.S. As the exhaust shock pulse travels down the primary into the collector, it sees a pressure differential. When it reaches the open end of the collector, it encounters an "infinite mass", the atmosphere. This acts as a wall that the shock pulse reflects off of and travels back up the header tubes to the cylinder. (The reducer on the end of your collector connecting your exhaust pipe does the same thing.) Ideally it then again reverses and heads back down the header, further scavenging exhaust gases from the cylinder, and if your valve timing is right, assisting to start the new air fuel charge moving toward the cylinder.
This is why collector length helps "tune" the header to the motor's rpm band, as it controls the time it takes for the shock pulse to make one round trip. (This is especially important on some cheap aftermarket headers with primary tubes that are too short.) It's not so much about "smoothing out the turbulence" as the shock wave reaches the collector before the new blast of exhaust gases does.
We used to say, "If you are running an automatic, add an extra 3" - 4" inches beyond the point where the grease mark burns off to, as your starting point for tuning your header.
Typical collector lengths: manuals - 14 - 18 inches. Automatics: 16 - 22 inches. Depends on cu/in & car weight.
Tony thanks for this video. We tried this on my dad's car. A small block street Tire Volare Roadrunner. The car went consistent 660s last year with the best of a 149 60 foot. I told him about your video and he said he used to do the same thing to his big block cars back in the late 70s. He ordered a set of 18-inch header extensions and went to Hertford North Carolina today first pass off the trailer 650 with a 141 60 foot. He was tickled to death. And the car even picked up a little bit of mile-an-hour.
I learned something new about tuning from uncle tony! now your just showing off. thanks for the video!
Very cool, reflects the same basic ideas that Engine Masters got on the episode they did on collectors!
Matt here I fill your pain about the weather I got a foot of snow last week in Utah. I hate winter too Tony. Great info on headers I did not know about thanks uncle Tony.
That flux welder you recommended from harbor freight during Sunday night live works like a charm! Thanks!
I always wondered why 68-69 Hurst olds went with manifolds instead of headers... granted they were high flow manifolds on that 455, but perhaps they went with manifolds because it was still a street/strip car?
Nick's Garage is doing a series on complete assembly of a 440. I heard his wife will not let him do it in their kitchen. HAHA!!!
This reminds me of the time the exhaust pipe fell out of the flange holding it to the header in my Cavalier. Immediately, the sound changed to that of an old boat motor and I had no power whatsoever. Didn’t matter if the pedal was on the floor.
I didn’t have the proper back pressure and it wasn’t scavenging properly. Once I welded the pipe back together it ran like no problem ever occurred
I love this channel Uncle Tony! I always learn something i didn't know before. Uncle Tony reminds me of my high school auto shop teacher with the voice of George Carlin...
it would be cool if you can tell us someday the main difference between a street (stock)and racing mopar
greats from The Netherlands
I would have never given something like this any thought. Awesome to know!
Late in the 70's we( friends and I) Made a sliding collector, It was held on with springs. . Then paint with old paint.. Burn your paint like out. Make three sets.. +4, +6, +8... Easy cheap, fast.. Best of all it makes you look good,,
Always interesting. I don't have the time to watch many videos because of their length, but I make exceptions for UTG's stuff.
It also seems like lengthening the collector is like lengthening barrels on firearms: the longer they are (to a point) the more oomph you get.
I need some of the stuff you have. I'm kidding I totally admire your enthusiasm you the best UT!!!
Header pipes is what I ran back in the day. Just go to western auto and get The glass pack cherry bombs with the header pipe & flange..
Great Clinic UT. Great simple performance gain on this one. Love to drive for you. The race cars that is.
High science!!! I love high science!!!
Thanks for being you Unks!!!
Uncle Tony I make sure that I like all of your videos they are great 👍
Back a couple (25 or 30) years ago when we ran street mod pulling trucks, an old timer explained to us how get the right collector length for yer engine, very simple, put on a pipe you knew was longer than you needed then after a couple runs, look inside it with a flash light and cut it off about an inch behind the point where it turned from black to gray, seemed to make sense to us as thats about the time the trophies started adding up
So true and useful. If that collector is too short it feels like there's a hole in the torque curve. My experience anyway. Interested in this.
Beautiful channel and cars...greetings from Europe
Great info unk I read about this in hot rod mag. When I was about 13 yrs old 👍👍
Thanks for the info Boss, always Welcome..
With my full exhaust system I put the crossover at the end of where the grease pencil burnt off❤😊. It made the difference between being raspy, and being able to do donuts😂
Your videos are great, always get something out of it
Engine masters just tested this and he’s right.... 18” extension off the collector was the sweet spot
Wow thanks for the great info im working on my 68 chevelle here in Pensacola Florida trying to figure out the loudest and best exshust right now I just have street headers on it so I was wanting xpipe with boom tubes coming off rear tires never gave much thought into the collectors man I need you to build me a exshust 😆
This info is PRICELESS!
It's all a slop up here in Canada too Uncle Tony! - nice to not freeze - not so great walking in water!
It went from like 30f below to over 45f above now. I agree. I am walking in a swamp at my garage
We went from -20 4 days ago to 65 today. My backyard is a swamp... dogs are gonna need baths tonight... LOL
Bravo, on point!
Engine masters did a cool test on collector extensions and if I remember right 12 or 18 was best but surprising how much a few inches made. Ol lady said the same😛
As usual, Tony has a very interesting show, and he has Xlnt ideas for budget performance gains... This segment shows how to get the most from a set of exhaust headers..
Cool video thank for sharing all those year's of experience.and nolige
Time.....on the strip everyone is trying to cheat it , everything counts. After mechanical limits , reaction time is up to you. Thanks Tony.
Excellent video.
Man what a damn good video. I love all of your videos but I'm about to put this one to the test on my dad's car.
well said on turbulence utg ive tested that at the track with my 91 lx even with basani step headers 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 the car went quicker corked aka with x pipe and mufflers
I thought this was common knowledge. Guess not. Another valuable PSA from “The Tone” Uncle Tony Show! FM Stereo! Even though his cars can’t receive that shit.
I used the grease pencil trick to find the home for a crossover on my exhaust..seemed to work.. cut outs just aft of it on a hot 350 4 speed
Cheap parts Yes! My Suzuki Sidekick is like that to. $20.00 or less for lots of it. Fuel pump, about $30.00. A couple of buddies offered to help me push it home. I changed it myself. Two other guys that paid a grand wouldn't talk to me about it.
Motortrend dyno tested all of this stuff starting with the "cut it where you still see paint thing". Very interested results.
I would point out that many engines like longer collectors but not all do. In my experience and observations mopars, fords, and pontiacs like extensions as do some big block chevys but small block chevys don't really care. I had a supercharged sbc and tried all different lengths header extensions and the car didn't change ET in the 1/4 mile noticeably.
Great info
Right on
Love you, and what you're all about tony
Uncle Tony, can you talk about rear ends? The types, how they work (basics) and what improvements can/need to be made for performance
I wonder how many vintage engine blocks across the South were lost to ice crackin' em' open.
Oooooohh. Scary thought
Freeze plugs are suppose to keep that from happening.😎
Wow, that is some aerospace quality welds on the collector extension.....
Just need some sort of back pressure to prevent backflow of the exhaust gases. That's the most simplified explanation I can come up with. There has to be a minimum length of exhaust to achieve sufficient back pressure to keep the positive flow. The minimum required exhaust length is where the maximum flow can be achieved.
Sounds very much like what I read in a book many years ago about building tuned length megaphones to help scavenge the exhaust. That was for building racing 4 bangers but tuning the exhaust lengths is pretty basic science.
Good job God bless yous
You know what im up for the miata project. Get it driving and go chuck it about they are hilarious
I got a set of old Hookers back from the day it was a pain in the ass to attach any exhaust to them.
Looking forward to the Miata ! That is right in my wheelhouse.
Great video Uncle Tony!👍 Hello Uncle Kathy.👋 Sorry I missed the live stream last night, I was still napping.
The best exhaust system to run on a street/strip car is to have a set of manual or electric cutouts. A pull of a knob or push of a button and ya have an open exhaust. This just my opinion and there are many other that say the same thing.
Personally, I blame squirrels for John Woodworth.
Old school cool 😎 awesome
Wow, an old guy told me, for an old dirt track car, to paint the exh pipe and cut it off where the paint stopped burning wasn't that far off the mark.
Good stuff!
Engine Masters did a great video testing collector length
We use to cut the collector extensions right on where the soot mark finished..
Laminar flow. Its a beautiful thing.
I’ve experimented over the years and with my builds it’s been an approx 18” collector that performs the best.
Little more little less depending on the car and combo…
If you are watching this and you haven't read "4 Stroke performance Tuning"-A Graham Bell then you should absolutely get a copy..primary/secondary pipe math is easy...you can make a cheap set of headers work perfectly by simply correcting the tune for running open pipe.
See ya tomorrow Tony 👍🏻
I’ve spent a lot of time experimenting with collector length.
A freakin fountain of information. Like a PhD course for low E.T.s.
*100% correct*
Way back when I was running my 71 Duster 318 automatic, I took pipe same diameter as collector, slit it length wise, opened it up to fit over the 10 inch collector extension then welded up the slit. Then welded all thread to the collector extension bolt heads. Had a flange welded on the 'slit' extension and put nuts on either side of the flange. I could simply adjust the nuts on the flanged, slit extension to make overall collector length longer or shorter. That car responded best with 21 & 1/2 inches of total collector length. BTW, never thought about the heat thingy
Ready for the Miata content👍
Hey Uncle Tony, I’m trying to put together a project that involves a 440 and an old Nissan and I was wondering if you could do more videos on the big blocks and perhaps the transmission options they came with too. I’m a Mopar guy with import money and good information goes a long way.
I am just happy if the headers don't leak lol
Damn UT!! Want me to come down there and show you how to throw down a weld? LOL. That looks like it was welded with a coat hanger and jumper cables.
100%
Hey, that's how I kept my rambler running in the 1970'S, oh yeah bailing wire and bars leak too.
Michael Haas one or two steps up from a coat hanger and jumper cables the flux core mig welder from harbor freight im pretty sure is what was used make the collector extensions .. Tony never said he was a amazing welder
Looks like chewing gum
We call those extensions torque tubes
Great video. I even run a 10" extension on my race headers. I don't think the paint works.
Thanks for that, I thought I lost bottom end cuz my pipes were to big, my collectors are to f-ing short!!!