Because of his stupid comments on “testosterone being poison” and saying he’s “not making movies for toxic males anymore”, I have no interest in anything James Cameron has to say.
@@AllenZomberg Aye, runs Aliens through and butchers it with Ai for it's 4k release instead of giving it the care it deserves, then gets snarky when people complain about the lack of grain/grain structure etc, losing my respect of him as a film maker more and more. True lies suffered this fate too.
- Terminator 3: Killing the Horse - Terminator 4: Beating the Dead Horse - Terminator 5: Beating the Corpse into Glue - Terminator 6: The Glue Dries Up - Coming Soon-Terminator 7: The Dried Glue Flakes Off - Coming Inevitably-Terminator 8: The Flakes Crumble into Dust - Coming Finally-Terminator 9: Dust in the Wind - … Come Again?! T-X: MILD BREEZE
They keep trying to recreate the magic of T2 with massive budgeted action, but they will never get the return on investment. I would prefer they stop making films, but if they move forward they should go back to the horror / Sci-Fi Slasher vibe of the original. This could cut the budget substantially which makes a profit more feasible.
I agree he could have done it years ago when his mind was fresh. We didn't need that rubbish terminator 3 movie we needed the future war based on the terminator 2 flash backs. It just never ever happened!
@@SparkZ1420 That video game was a far better Terminator 3 than any of the films were, which is just sad. If people reading this have any interest in that, I highly recommend it.
Have you watched Terminator Zero on Netflix yet? It's a manga style animation series and I'm loving it's ideas and conception! But yes from the perspective of the films, it 100% ended after T2!
Ended with Terminator 1. I really enjoyed Terminator 2 when I was younger but watching it now and seeing how they basically turned what was so terrifying in the first film into a kid's teddy bear in the second film....naaaaah
Let's all make sure we don't forget that it was James Cameron's decision to go woke and kill off John Connor in Dark Fate, to replace him with a petite Mexican girl who was not believable as the new saviour of the human race. He unceremoniously killed off the character central to the story that he crafted so brilliantly in T1 and T2 and then couldn't understand why Dark Fate bombed so spectacularly at the Box Office. As far as I'm concerned, only T1, T2 and the 2019 video game Terminator: Resistance, belong in the true canon of this franchise.
He was a co-writer on Dark Fate, soooo NO THANKS!!!....i dont want any Hollywood produced Terminators anymore unless and only if its about the Future War...just let the Japanese develop the anime further (which was awesome) or let the franchise rest.
I personally thought Terminator Zero was lacking. It felt like it was repeating plot points from the first two movies. The ending was not satisfying. The rules of the timeline make everything pointless.
Zero wasn't even written by the Japanese, they only animated it. The Japanese, had they written it, probably would have been more respectful to the IP than the Americans at this point.
He said that with Genisys and Dark Fate and they were dumpster fires, he didn't even endorse Terminator Resistance which has been the best thing the Terminator franchise has come up with in almost 2 decades, Cameron is not the same he was in the 80s-90s, nowadays he only cares for his franchises with giant CGI eyes characters, I wouldn't trust anything he says about movies he's not directly making.
@@notverycleaver41 It's not a masterpiece in any way. You can say one pile of garbage smells worse than the other, but at the end of the day we still have piles of garbage. Each post T2 film spits in the face of the franchise in it's own unique way. Salvation is no exception.
Without Arnie, without Lunda Hamilton, without the T-800 and the T-1000 and Sarah Connor, it might be hard to imagine what's left" says Cameron. Simple I say, John Connor is left. Cameron didn't mention him. I think he secretly hates John now, cause of the patriarchy.
@@RationalRage9 Agree, while I like some of 3, it's low budget shines through. I even remember watching Arnie on Leno plugging it back in 2003, saying/claiming he used some of his own money for a scene that he wanted in it.
The movie sucked. They took memorable moments from T2 and made them cliche, and they left out all the meaningful aspects that made T2 great and created a shallow popcorn movie. It's a hollow Terminator film. See? Now you've upset me. 🤣
I think terminator was a good movie idea like back to the future , back in the 90' , 3 movies would have been enough, like matrix. Today we have a lot of AI related movies and looks weird. For example Chappie , that AI was created and didn't want to kill humans , he understood that man and machine union is the right path, and basically immortality to humans.
@@fabianolivera3793we need a saving private ryan type movie set in the future but it’s a prequel to the original showing how Kyle gets to the Time Machine, just og terminators with the classic 80s feel. Easy billion dollars
I think this is only happening because Terminator: Zero did well enough critically that Cameron's ego cant accept that someone will eventually surpass him that hes willing to try something new now. If i remember correctly he said he didn't want to even touch them.
There is no Terminator without Arnold. I’ve been in a phase lately where I’ve been rewatching older movies again. I rewatched T2 and it’s still one of the best action movies ever made. I’m fine with them Alienating the modern audience. They’re too dumb to understand this franchise’s importance anyway
It's appalling that the studios and producers ever allowed Dark Fate to be as bad as it was. I think we all expect some bad elements but this was like the producers sat down and said how can we do it wrong and disrespect the fans as much as possible. Unbelievable failure.
Christ. The first one didn't need a sequel but he got lucky.... It was awesome. There's hasn't been anything else worthy with the exception of Terminator Resistance.
The only other one, for what it is worth, is the one showing how Skynet became aware. I think that was the third one. Those three movies should have just been.
I agree, Cameron should have completed the trilogy back in the 90s with a movie about the victory over skynet but he blew it and gave it to other people to massacre. There is nothing left to tell. It was a closed loop story about time travel. Outside of that its just your standard man vs machine story.
The video game "Terminator Resistance", though low budget, nails the feeling of the future setting as shown in the first couple of movies. If you're a gamer, and you enjoy Terminator, chances are you'll find something to love about it. As for James Cameron, i think he's merely waxing lyrical about a hypothetical movie that, even if it does happen, he wont direct. He'll be a hands off, no show producer.
Out of all the sequels to T2, I thought Terminator Salvation had the most potential. Yes the McG Terminator movie with Christian Bale and Sam Worthington. It was far better than T3, although it follows the ending of T3, where the war happens anyway. I honestly don't know why people didn't see that movie. It introduced new characters, there was no time travel, there was world building, we got to fully flesh out the war against the machines, it had the most potential of any sequels. There could have been a whole TV show or series of movies launched from that film.
T3 felt more like a made for TV production. So much of it was slap-dash and it's really just not memorable even by popcorn movie standards. That doesn't mean it wasn't "good" (I actually own and watch it on occasion), it just felt rushed and exploitive. Nick Stahl just didn't vibe as John Connor. At least, Christian Bale brought that attitude to his version of JC, which saved the movie from Sam Worthington's awful performance. Remember James Cameron and the producer to whom he sold half the Terminator IP actually lost control of that IP for many (many) years.
It was all garbage man... I mean... fuck me running. Look I love Claire Danes in Brokedown Palace (1999) but her and Nick Stahl was such a laughable cast. I had a hard time with suspension of disbelief.
Somehow I fear an re-imagined Terminator movie will end up featuring Jane Connor, a trans freedom fighter and Skynet will be an allegory for bigoted dictators and Right leaning governments.
Can you imagine if DaVinci was alive today? _"Here's a new painting of Lizzo twerking. I'm calling this one the MonaLisa, coz I can't be assed naming my products anymore."_
James Cameron is like an ex 100 metres gold medalist who just turned 95 years old, has had a hip replacement, a knee replacement, has a serious heart condition and advanced lung cancer but still believes he can run like he used to. It's embarrassing and pathetic.
@Scifi4life the avatar movies are glorified tech demos. They look amazing, but there’s no real substance or story worth investing much time or thought into.
he's so predictable. The next thing he'll say is "i was just doing DF for my buddies arnold and linda. I didn't really put my heart into it." Just as he previously excused himself with Sega: Genisys.
Yeah…sorry that already sounds like fucking shit. I’m way more down for more Terminator Zero and btw completely agree that Dark Fate was THE BIGGEST PIECE OF SHIT and literally pissed all over the franchise, it appalls me that there are ppl out there saying that it was the best sequel since T2.
Imo, the ONLY way to do a compelling Terminator film at this point is to do the future war like in Terminator Salvation. Yes Salvation was a mid movie but a good idea and the only Terminator movie to do something different; it was just executed badly. But I doubt anyone in Hollywood would do this justice, because you have to write a movie about duty and sacrifice like a WW2 movie.
@@RationalRage9 Terminator Resistance was really good, they captured the feel of these Future War sequences from the first movie perfectly. Same studio also made that great Robocop video game.
T3 was decent. Had a great ballsy ending. Salvation despite its issues was also enjoyable. Sarah Connor Chronicles was good. And of course Resistance should be considered part of the official lore as well.
I’m the same there is a lot to like about Terminator Salvation more than the other sequels post-T2. I think the only things that ruin it are Sam Worthington’s annoying yelling & screaming and the fake CGI Arnold Schwarzenegger. I would’ve loved to have seen more terminator films set during the war more importantly I think the 3rd film after T2 should’ve been set during the war and been about how everyone got sent back in time which if it was made in the 90’s could’ve not only starred Arnold Schwarzenegger but Robert Patrick maybe and Michael Biehn as Kyle Reese etc and could’ve been the perfect cap off to that trilogy
After James Cameron was recently quoted saying “testosterone is poison.” I have zero faith in his ability to successfully re-boot such a masculine property like The Terminator. And if they get rid of the standard human-robot t-800 model it’s not even terminator anymore
Salvation to me is the real Terminator 3. Bit of war time fun. Kind of an odd prequel in some ways. I would like another war film, even if it tells the same story as Salvation but a bit different. The humans win the war, SkyNet is salty, sends it's cyborg goons back. SkyNet is just twiddling it's thumbs sending Terminators back, then the humans barge through the doors and finally pull the plug on SkyNet. It doesn't have to be a loop as such. It would be like sending someone in the past to change an event....waiting...realising no change, shrug and move on.
I understand if most of the iconography don’t return. The current plot and character arcs ended with T2 and everyone seems to agree with this. The issue is though, is that when you “jettison” all of this - Sarah, John, Arnie, Skynet, Endoskeletons - there’s nothing recognisable left. I do agree to a degree that the story in the 2020’s may need to move on, because we now live in a world where much of what was predicted for technology is starting to come to fruition and needs to be tackled in different ways. The actors are now in their late 60’s and 70’s, and I can safely predict that a future war film based on the first two will never happen. With that said, how can you make a Terminator entry without, at the very least, the Endoskeleton? If he has more to say about AI and is intent on not bringing back anything recognisable, Cameron would be better off making a spiritual sequel series set in the same universe, but not call it Terminator. If he was going to make a true sequel, he should firstly, at the very least, create an alternative edit of Dark Fate, assuming that would be his jumping off point. I don’t have a problem with the key plot points from that film but I do have issue with how it was put to screen. He should then build on this with the sequel, which I have my own thoughts and ideas, and unanswered questions concerning similar Endoskeleton still appearing, and a potential time loop scenario based on how the future already seems to know about the past which hadn’t yet happened, mirroring the first two films. As a huge longtime fan, the way I look at it is that we’ve had the essential two films, a bunch of What-Ifs, an excellent Anime, a great game in Resistance, and a bunch of cool merch. I even went on the ride 3 times back in the day. If Terminator is largely done now, well it was fun whilst in lasted. Mostly.
I think you can move on from the iconography as long as you understand the tone and the fear that the originals brought . Personally I would ditch the time travel and the a.i story . Just have it like the snatcher game . A cold war between two countries where anyone could be a sleeper terminator.
It was garbage. It had the blueprints in T1 and T2 future scenes but was too ashamed of those so they turned it into US army vs Robots. Also the robots throwing Connor away to try to provide him with a way to escape and later on heart punching Marcus on the spot is one of the most absurd things I ever saw next to Connor taking with a metal door on his face and acting like it was made out of foam. Its only redeeming feature was not going with the original ending of killing Connor and transplant his face to Marcus that would turn it into proto-dark fate by rendering the events of T1 and T2 almost pointless reducing Connor to a face mask.
The only way they could save it is making a new "Terminator 3" with Linda Hamilton as Sarah Connor, Norman Reedus as John Connor, and Callan Mulvey as a new T-1000. NO ARNOLD! NO MORE ARNOLD FFS. The plot could involve Judgement Day not being stopped, but just postponed (due to the T-800 arm that was left behind in the gears, and some T-1000 residue left at the scene from the battle near the end of T2). Have John and his mom living their lives out in Mexico at a diner/garage/gas station, where John runs the garage and his mom runs the diner. One day they randomly catch a news story on tv about a new AI company helping wounded soldiers. In the article they both notice something disturbing. They show off a new prosthetic arm a veteran is using after he lost his in the Afghan pullout. They both turn white with fear. It's a T-800 arm. Suddenly the power goes off and the scene cuts to a border patrol station where lone officer witnesses an electrical storm, steps out of his booth and is immediately killed. A T-1000 takes his identity (played by Callan Mulvey). That's how I would start a brand new Terminator 3 that would retcon all the garbage that came out after Terminator 2.
Shartzy as T-800 and Lisa Hamilton Sarah Connor and Kyke Reese Michael Biehn this is the origin of the TERMINATOR Saga. Doing a RESET a REBOOT will always be worse than the original.
I have a bad feeling about this. The Terminator saga should have ended in T2. Or made ciclical, as Mr H says. At this moment, it should be let to rest. It has too much baggage. Hollywood should think of something new.
@@RationalRage9 This guy is fucking obsessed with shitty games. Yes I reviewed it under CryonicSuspension on Steam. You can read that I thought that it was a shitbox game.
The first two films are fantastic and untouchable, 3rd on is disappointing although the ending was a shocking moment, Salvation was good and I liked it, Genisys and Dark Fate are a disgrace and should be struck down. Terminator Zero was a breath of fresh air and throughly enjoyable. Sarah Conner chronicles was watchable. I’d rather see another season of Zero to be honest than another film.
Genisys and Dark Fate had interesting ideas that were abysmally executed. I actually enjoyed Genisys, can’t lie, it’s not fantastic but is definitely more palatable than Dark Fate… I wish cinemas gave refunds! Not even Arnie could save that steamer 💩 I can’t believe he accepted the role, Cameron must’ve slipped him an extra $10m and 5 years supply of stogies, because that script was “tell Stallone I’m thinking about taking it” (Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot) levels. A machine developing a conscience and becoming a working step-dad? Get out of my house!
Terminator would be a super easy series to end; 1. Make it so that humanity destroys Skynet by detonating nuclear weapons under Cheyenne Mountain (where Skynet's mainframe is housed) and inducing a volcanic reaction to melt Skynet. 2. John Connor sends back the T-800 to save himself in T-2, ensuring he survives to lead the human resistance. Ignore everything after Terminator 3 (Maybe keep Salvation, I liked that one) and then boom the series can end.
They never bring up Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles for some reason. Which came out between the third and fourth films. And a lot of fans think that's the best thing that we got after the second film.
I mean...we all thought Alien and Predator were done right? But then we got Prey and Romulus and all of a sudden we all want more (at least most of us). Last month we got Terminator Zero which breathed new life into the franchise. So perhaps Terminator can continue that streak? Im cautiously optimistic.
Had it been a random studio director telling us we have to move on from the known Terminator characters, I'd be less inclined to listen but since is James Cameron I'm more inclined to hear him out.
I used to have so much respect for James Cameron growing up. I thought of him as one of the best ever directors after his works with Terminator, Aliens, Titanic and Avatar. But when he started to become so high on himself and make himself as some kind of aristocrat and started to act-out his social & political opinions in forms of attacking- and bashing, I gradually lost that respect. Now I see him as two-eras of a person. And the curremt James Cameron IMO sucks & blows at same time. Pure ignorant and disrespectfull stupid open comments inc. “Testosterone being a poison” or saying he’s “Not making movies for toxic males anymore”, or "Want to have only female heroes combined with masculine villains" etc. resulted in that I have no interest in anything James Cameron has to say today and refuse to pay for his new movies. Just the fact HE was responsible for releasing 3 of his old classics; Terminator 2, Aliens and True Lies in a "All new 4K A.I restoration with his overseen" in such bad quality still demanded premium pricing further made me feel Cameron is now another Hollywood D.B. These are his legacy movies and he s#its on his fans with this to earn more cash to his "modern audience" projects is disgusting IMO.
love the 1st film, and as a kid growing up i loved the 2nd. the games and toys were cool aswell...but honestly think the franchise needs to go back to its horror route..picturing the scene when the t-800 first loose its skin walking down that corridor in the factory, chills !!
I don’t care who is the lead, the supporting cast, the writing, producing, directing etc. All need to be on point and right, don’t cast someone to appease a group, cast the best actor for the written roles and direct them to be able to act to full potential and pull fans into the movie
So basically James Cameron is following the rest of modern Hollywood and going full woke for the "modern audience." Has he not watched the systematic destruction of Star Wars, Marvel, Indian Jones, Doctor Who etc?!?!
Ps. My guilty pleasure is genesis I loved it, sorry not enough people did. I was really hoping back then that we’d see more of that universe because Sarah being the strong one leading instead of Kyle was a welcome change, it felt like a simpler concept, wasn’t a big fan of John being the villain but it’s ok I understand the direction
Bro I bloody been saying that for years!!!!! Close the loop with a trilogy that ends as Terminator 1 starts! See Kyle and T800 hit the streets of L.A T-800 looks over L.A from grittith observatory and film ends!!!!!
They need to be rated R, be gritty with a sense of dread and impending doom. And im sorry. John conner and Skynet have to be at the heart of it all. If they want to follow up the movies... Terminator: the sarah conner chronicles set a good template and premise for how things should ocurre moving forward for a long time.
How about just a future war film. Dark like it was in 1st and 2nd films. None of the woke rubbish. NO MORE TIME TRAVEL. Show the horrors of the war. The camps, extermination of humans.
Terminator 3 has gotten better with age NGL especially when compared with some the garbage films we get these days, Not to mention one of the greatest endings ever, It always had great ending imo
I'm a fan of 1&2, Salvation was the only one after those two movies that was good after them, in my opinion. James should make a new movie about the future we're and how they reprogrammed the T800, how they get to the time machine and how they beat Skynet. Another way he could do it is make another character that is important for the future destruction of Skynet and have a T1 style killer terminator. If James is trying to please a new audience it's going to fail. He just needs to make it without trying to please anyone and just do what he did with the originals. It would be cool to make even a series if needed like Terminator Zero but with actual people and make it be about the orgins of T1 & T2.
"For a new/modern audience" - The last thing I ever want to hear.
Add in 'reimagining' and 'subverting expectations' to phrases i dread hearing when describing classic franshices.
@@JuggyBohabamen
Because it worked so well the last two times. They never learn..
Fuck the new times, it really sucks. We need a R rated movie dark as hell by Cameron.
@@ThreszheR not by Cameron. He's gone woke. I don't want him touching terminator again.
Because of his stupid comments on “testosterone being poison” and saying he’s “not making movies for toxic males anymore”, I have no interest in anything James Cameron has to say.
Agreed. He is completely lost in his basement, and is no longer relevant.
@@realdarthplagueis*Cause he was never a REAL man to begin with.*
@@EMDRONES Just use Google like a big boy!😂
This. He also butchers his own films with AI
@@AllenZomberg Aye, runs Aliens through and butchers it with Ai for it's 4k release instead of giving it the care it deserves, then gets snarky when people complain about the lack of grain/grain structure etc, losing my respect of him as a film maker more and more. True lies suffered this fate too.
"Stop! He's already de_d!" 😭
This. Stop beating the greasy spot on the floor, where the dead horse used to be.
The censorship on YT is getting insane.
de_d? What kind of word is that?
@@PieroMinayaRojas A censored word. Because Google.
damn, you beat me to it
The horse has now been beaten into glue 😂
- Terminator 3: Killing the Horse
- Terminator 4: Beating the Dead Horse
- Terminator 5: Beating the Corpse into Glue
- Terminator 6: The Glue Dries Up
- Coming Soon-Terminator 7: The Dried Glue Flakes Off
- Coming Inevitably-Terminator 8: The Flakes Crumble into Dust
- Coming Finally-Terminator 9: Dust in the Wind
- … Come Again?! T-X: MILD BREEZE
The Hollywood way since year 2000
@@lukepensabene6086couldn't have said it better
@@lukepensabene6086 exactly
The first one is such a horror film & I love it for that reason.
Exactly. I enjoy the fact that you have a unfeeling, unstoppable stalker that's coming after you that is cyborg. Move over Michael Myers.
Since judgment day the franchise has been getting more horrific with every movie. At this point I´m even horrified thinking of a new movie.
@@marcomarterer7232This is one of those franchises where I just pretend the bad ones don’t exist. Like Star Wars and Indiana Jones.
They keep trying to recreate the magic of T2 with massive budgeted action, but they will never get the return on investment. I would prefer they stop making films, but if they move forward they should go back to the horror / Sci-Fi Slasher vibe of the original. This could cut the budget substantially which makes a profit more feasible.
Sci-fi slasher 100%
How about another movie showing more of the war? Is that so hard? That is what we all ever wanted, and it never happens.
the cloest we got is T2 the arcade game watch that longplay
I'm pretty sure that's salvation.
Terminator Resistance is all about the war.
I agree he could have done it years ago when his mind was fresh. We didn't need that rubbish terminator 3 movie we needed the future war based on the terminator 2 flash backs. It just never ever happened!
@@Scifi4life That film is a total shit show!
Your idea for what the third movie should have been is exactly what the game Terminator: Resistance is, and it's awesome.
Terminator ended with 2: Judgment Day. Prove me wrong.
Well Terminator Resistance the game. But film, yes.
@@SparkZ1420 That video game was a far better Terminator 3 than any of the films were, which is just sad. If people reading this have any interest in that, I highly recommend it.
Have you watched Terminator Zero on Netflix yet? It's a manga style animation series and I'm loving it's ideas and conception! But yes from the perspective of the films, it 100% ended after T2!
@@rubenfrankishI keep falling asleep on it
Ended with Terminator 1. I really enjoyed Terminator 2 when I was younger but watching it now and seeing how they basically turned what was so terrifying in the first film into a kid's teddy bear in the second film....naaaaah
Let's all make sure we don't forget that it was James Cameron's decision to go woke and kill off John Connor in Dark Fate, to replace him with a petite Mexican girl who was not believable as the new saviour of the human race.
He unceremoniously killed off the character central to the story that he crafted so brilliantly in T1 and T2 and then couldn't understand why Dark Fate bombed so spectacularly at the Box Office.
As far as I'm concerned, only T1, T2 and the 2019 video game Terminator: Resistance, belong in the true canon of this franchise.
THAT WAS HIS FN IDEA!!!!????!!!??!!!!
He was a co-writer on Dark Fate, soooo NO THANKS!!!....i dont want any Hollywood produced Terminators anymore unless and only if its about the Future War...just let the Japanese develop the anime further (which was awesome) or let the franchise rest.
Terminator Salvation reboot
The anime was great. It felt like the original mixed with Genisys.
I personally thought Terminator Zero was lacking. It felt like it was repeating plot points from the first two movies. The ending was not satisfying. The rules of the timeline make everything pointless.
The anime wasn't that good, it was just a rehash but with some nihilistic edgelordism thrown in and a plot armored human.
Zero wasn't even written by the Japanese, they only animated it. The Japanese, had they written it, probably would have been more respectful to the IP than the Americans at this point.
He said that with Genisys and Dark Fate and they were dumpster fires, he didn't even endorse Terminator Resistance which has been the best thing the Terminator franchise has come up with in almost 2 decades, Cameron is not the same he was in the 80s-90s, nowadays he only cares for his franchises with giant CGI eyes characters, I wouldn't trust anything he says about movies he's not directly making.
He's gone woke.
Same as Ridley Scott, declining is real
He turned from kick ass director to fairy director
Terminator Salvation..the irony of the name for how the series has gone.
It is also ironic how it was so hated when new, but compared to what came after it, its a masterpiece
@@notverycleaver41it’s still crap regardless how bad the others were after
Nah, still crap and lackluster af due to it not being R rated.
should be Terminator Damnation
@@notverycleaver41 It's not a masterpiece in any way. You can say one pile of garbage smells worse than the other, but at the end of the day we still have piles of garbage. Each post T2 film spits in the face of the franchise in it's own unique way. Salvation is no exception.
Without Arnie, without Lunda Hamilton, without the T-800 and the T-1000 and Sarah Connor, it might be hard to imagine what's left" says Cameron. Simple I say, John Connor is left. Cameron didn't mention him. I think he secretly hates John now, cause of the patriarchy.
That's why he got rid of him in Dark Fate.
@@peterlenham3180 and then people got rid of Dark Fate by making it bomb. It's like poetry, it rhymes
It's not really a secret
Arnold overstated his welcome after T2. They just kept briniging him back to the point of nausea. Let the story move past him
James Cameron specifically retconned "John Connor" out of the Terminator future with his Dark Fate butchering of the child.
T3 and Salvation have some good moments. They're not completely trash. The last two movies however are hot garbage steeped in donkey piss.
I liked 1, 2 and Dark Fate. Everything in between was garbo.
@@MrAgmoore Dark Fate is a shit
@@RationalRage9
Agree, while I like some of 3, it's low budget shines through. I even remember watching Arnie on Leno plugging it back in 2003, saying/claiming he used some of his own money for a scene that he wanted in it.
Amazing to think that we reached a point now when James Cameron announces new Terminator films, and we just don't give a fuzz
I agree there is no modern audience for Terminator. It would be lame. The retro vibe makes those movies what they are.
Too much time has past...kids today wont understand the history of the first 2 movies
There *is* a modern audience. They’re all watching Bridgerton. They don’t watch the things that we like.
T3 was fine. That chase sequence still make modern action movies look like girly candy.
The movie sucked. They took memorable moments from T2 and made them cliche, and they left out all the meaningful aspects that made T2 great and created a shallow popcorn movie. It's a hollow Terminator film. See? Now you've upset me. 🤣
@@ShadowBanned-o_O nah.
Terminator 3 wasn't a bad movie but if James Cameron produced Terminator 3 The whole franchise would be saved now
@@ShepherdsChapelonYT Cameron was deeply involved with Dark Fate, and that movie sucked hard.
Sarah Connor chronicles was really good too, riding high going into salvation back in 2009 times
We need a terminator movie takes in the future war before time travel or bring new characters in franchise just did with Terminator zero
Or you know, actually expand the plot from Salvation. The Future War is more interesting than attempting to "modernize" the timeline.
@@thientuongnguyen2564 terminator salvation just ammo on there weapons need laser guns just did with T1 and T2
I think terminator was a good movie idea like back to the future , back in the 90' , 3 movies would have been enough, like matrix.
Today we have a lot of AI related movies and looks weird. For example Chappie , that AI was created and didn't want to kill humans , he understood that man and machine union is the right path, and basically immortality to humans.
@@fabianolivera3793we need a saving private ryan type movie set in the future but it’s a prequel to the original showing how Kyle gets to the Time Machine, just og terminators with the classic 80s feel. Easy billion dollars
You can still use the current cast too. It’s extremely easy
I'd prefer if they carried on with the Terminator salvation direction 💯
Tech-Noir Future War film - all night, all blue and flashy
I like terminator salvation and thought I only one who did
I think Salvation had it's good points. Not Bale's best performance though.
didnt have the right feel to it
@@Geeklectica Bales was fine. the problem is that they shoehorned Marcus for some uknown reason.
I like it.
my third best
I think this is only happening because Terminator: Zero did well enough critically that Cameron's ego cant accept that someone will eventually surpass him that hes willing to try something new now.
If i remember correctly he said he didn't want to even touch them.
i thought he had said he didnt want to jump into it just yet because he wanted to see the trajectory of AI tech first.
@@bloodlinefilms Ah, maybe I misremembered then. If he's genuinely still inspired, I'm down for more inspired Cameron.
@@altima22689 i still think its going to be terrible for the record. i just remember him saying he wanted to orient it towards realistic AI.
James Cameron is doing "20+ projects.* Avatar. Terminator. And Battle Angel 2😭
But I can’t wait for Alita Battle Angle 2 though omg I’m excited
And he will ruin all of them
He’s too woke now. Can no longer reach the audience he once did.
@@ENDWOKEDEGENERACY Avatar 2 says otherwise.
@@jakewheeler6014 Avatar Poo.
There is no Terminator without Arnold. I’ve been in a phase lately where I’ve been rewatching older movies again. I rewatched T2 and it’s still one of the best action movies ever made. I’m fine with them Alienating the modern audience. They’re too dumb to understand this franchise’s importance anyway
Stop it, Cameron. The last one Dark Fate was God awful. I didn't think nothing can top Genisys.
I liked it and the hot, blond nude girl.
It's appalling that the studios and producers ever allowed Dark Fate to be as bad as it was. I think we all expect some bad elements but this was like the producers sat down and said how can we do it wrong and disrespect the fans as much as possible. Unbelievable failure.
Terminator: Orange Man Bad Edition
Christ. The first one didn't need a sequel but he got lucky.... It was awesome. There's hasn't been anything else worthy with the exception of Terminator Resistance.
I liked the Sarah Connor chronicles 😢
The Sarah Connor Chronicles
The only other one, for what it is worth, is the one showing how Skynet became aware.
I think that was the third one. Those three movies should have just been.
@@flexingmecha granted. Pretty good series.
3 was decent.
I agree, Cameron should have completed the trilogy back in the 90s with a movie about the victory over skynet but he blew it and gave it to other people to massacre. There is nothing left to tell. It was a closed loop story about time travel. Outside of that its just your standard man vs machine story.
I'm the T(rans) 9001. Have you seen Julie Connor? Formerly known as John Connor.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Juanita Conor, si?
The Transminator
*Joan Connor
The video game "Terminator Resistance", though low budget, nails the feeling of the future setting as shown in the first couple of movies. If you're a gamer, and you enjoy Terminator, chances are you'll find something to love about it.
As for James Cameron, i think he's merely waxing lyrical about a hypothetical movie that, even if it does happen, he wont direct. He'll be a hands off, no show producer.
I kind of felt it was more of Fallout rip off.
Out of all the sequels to T2, I thought Terminator Salvation had the most potential. Yes the McG Terminator movie with Christian Bale and Sam Worthington. It was far better than T3, although it follows the ending of T3, where the war happens anyway. I honestly don't know why people didn't see that movie. It introduced new characters, there was no time travel, there was world building, we got to fully flesh out the war against the machines, it had the most potential of any sequels. There could have been a whole TV show or series of movies launched from that film.
T3 felt more like a made for TV production. So much of it was slap-dash and it's really just not memorable even by popcorn movie standards. That doesn't mean it wasn't "good" (I actually own and watch it on occasion), it just felt rushed and exploitive. Nick Stahl just didn't vibe as John Connor. At least, Christian Bale brought that attitude to his version of JC, which saved the movie from Sam Worthington's awful performance. Remember James Cameron and the producer to whom he sold half the Terminator IP actually lost control of that IP for many (many) years.
It was all garbage man... I mean... fuck me running. Look I love Claire Danes in Brokedown Palace (1999) but her and Nick Stahl was such a laughable cast. I had a hard time with suspension of disbelief.
》》 REBOOT SYSTEM
》》 NEW MISSION
》》 END OF TRANSMISSION
"Just give me something for the pain and let me die."
Terminator Resistance Game is the best sequel to the original two films so far. That's exactly the third story you mention.
Somehow I fear an re-imagined Terminator movie will end up featuring Jane Connor, a trans freedom fighter and Skynet will be an allegory for bigoted dictators and Right leaning governments.
Unfortunately
Skynet would have the digital face of Trump, wearing a "Make AI great again" hat, and a smug grin.
And nobody cares about your plan on Terminator franchise. Because we all busy living in our mom’s basement.
🤣🤣🤣
I thought The Sarah Connor Chronicles was the business. A real tragedy that it didn't get further season, writers strike and so on I think.
I think I watched the first episode, and then I tried to put a gun in my mouth.
Yep, that show was great. Real shame season 3 never happened.
We need a live action reboot led by Christopher Nolan.
No we don't
@@shonuff4323 yes
So imaginative 😂
@johnmcternan4157 yes, I know.
I want the next Chris Nolan movie to be titled: Nocturnal Emission.
Can you imagine if DaVinci was alive today?
_"Here's a new painting of Lizzo twerking. I'm calling this one the MonaLisa, coz I can't be assed naming my products anymore."_
I saw the first Terminator in the movie theaters and loved it. I couldn't care to watch another Terminator movie made for the modern audience.
I see on 1984 TERMINATOR 2 times on theater A Masterpiece.
I watched it the first time that it was aired on British television. I was born in '75 so too young to go to the cinema.
James Cameron is like an ex 100 metres gold medalist who just turned 95 years old, has had a hip replacement, a knee replacement, has a serious heart condition and advanced lung cancer but still believes he can run like he used to. It's embarrassing and pathetic.
He's in his prime. You haven't seen Alita battle angel or avatar way of water
Avatar was just CG porn. The story was absolutely garbage. Alita was good because Robert Rodriguez directed it.
@Scifi4life the avatar movies are glorified tech demos. They look amazing, but there’s no real substance or story worth investing much time or thought into.
@JoshuaBraith-jb9tm that's your opinion. Yes, the story is not complex like dune or star wars, but 2nd film is very good.
@@Scifi4lifeBoth dont come even remotely close to Terminator 1 and 2. All CGI and little else. His prime was over 30 years ago, not now.
I wonder if they well actually be good. Also Mr H please go back to reading scary novels like hell raiser or doing lore videos they were the best
They should take it back to its sci fi horror roots again like what they did with alien romulus
Wasn’t the death of John Connor in Dark Fate Cameron’s idea? Highly dubious he can automatically revive the franchise.
he's so predictable. The next thing he'll say is "i was just doing DF for my buddies arnold and linda. I didn't really put my heart into it." Just as he previously excused himself with Sega: Genisys.
Yeah…sorry that already sounds like fucking shit. I’m way more down for more Terminator Zero and btw completely agree that Dark Fate was THE BIGGEST PIECE OF SHIT and literally pissed all over the franchise, it appalls me that there are ppl out there saying that it was the best sequel since T2.
Imo, the ONLY way to do a compelling Terminator film at this point is to do the future war like in Terminator Salvation. Yes Salvation was a mid movie but a good idea and the only Terminator movie to do something different; it was just executed badly.
But I doubt anyone in Hollywood would do this justice, because you have to write a movie about duty and sacrifice like a WW2 movie.
The Terminator Resistance video game was basically this.
The beauty of time travel is they don't have to go to the future.
@@RationalRage9 Terminator Resistance was really good, they captured the feel of these Future War sequences from the first movie perfectly. Same studio also made that great Robocop video game.
T3 was decent. Had a great ballsy ending. Salvation despite its issues was also enjoyable.
Sarah Connor Chronicles was good.
And of course Resistance should be considered part of the official lore as well.
T3 was Ok if you watcht it once or twice. After that you start realize how silly stupid it is
@@CoolGobyFish Dark Fate too
I’m the same there is a lot to like about Terminator Salvation more than the other sequels post-T2. I think the only things that ruin it are Sam Worthington’s annoying yelling & screaming and the fake CGI Arnold Schwarzenegger. I would’ve loved to have seen more terminator films set during the war more importantly I think the 3rd film after T2 should’ve been set during the war and been about how everyone got sent back in time which if it was made in the 90’s could’ve not only starred Arnold Schwarzenegger but Robert Patrick maybe and Michael Biehn as Kyle Reese etc and could’ve been the perfect cap off to that trilogy
After James Cameron was recently quoted saying “testosterone is poison.” I have zero faith in his ability to successfully re-boot such a masculine property like The Terminator. And if they get rid of the standard human-robot t-800 model it’s not even terminator anymore
i think hes feeling bad for being a giant prick to everyone when he made movies. dont take it out on us mr. cameron buddy!
He said that but avatar 2 was about fatherhood and trying to take care of your family.
It sounds like he was trying to apologize to Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio: "WE'RE NOT ANIMALS!".
Salvation to me is the real Terminator 3. Bit of war time fun. Kind of an odd prequel in some ways. I would like another war film, even if it tells the same story as Salvation but a bit different. The humans win the war, SkyNet is salty, sends it's cyborg goons back. SkyNet is just twiddling it's thumbs sending Terminators back, then the humans barge through the doors and finally pull the plug on SkyNet. It doesn't have to be a loop as such. It would be like sending someone in the past to change an event....waiting...realising no change, shrug and move on.
I wouldn’t mind seeing a post judgment day, wasteland type of conflict for an entire movie. Show us the warrior prowess John becomes.
John became a junkie.
I understand if most of the iconography don’t return. The current plot and character arcs ended with T2 and everyone seems to agree with this. The issue is though, is that when you “jettison” all of this - Sarah, John, Arnie, Skynet, Endoskeletons - there’s nothing recognisable left.
I do agree to a degree that the story in the 2020’s may need to move on, because we now live in a world where much of what was predicted for technology is starting to come to fruition and needs to be tackled in different ways. The actors are now in their late 60’s and 70’s, and I can safely predict that a future war film based on the first two will never happen. With that said, how can you make a Terminator entry without, at the very least, the Endoskeleton?
If he has more to say about AI and is intent on not bringing back anything recognisable, Cameron would be better off making a spiritual sequel series set in the same universe, but not call it Terminator.
If he was going to make a true sequel, he should firstly, at the very least, create an alternative edit of Dark Fate, assuming that would be his jumping off point. I don’t have a problem with the key plot points from that film but I do have issue with how it was put to screen.
He should then build on this with the sequel, which I have my own thoughts and ideas, and unanswered questions concerning similar Endoskeleton still appearing, and a potential time loop scenario based on how the future already seems to know about the past which hadn’t yet happened, mirroring the first two films.
As a huge longtime fan, the way I look at it is that we’ve had the essential two films, a bunch of What-Ifs, an excellent Anime, a great game in Resistance, and a bunch of cool merch. I even went on the ride 3 times back in the day. If Terminator is largely done now, well it was fun whilst in lasted. Mostly.
I think you can move on from the iconography as long as you understand the tone and the fear that the originals brought .
Personally I would ditch the time travel and the a.i story .
Just have it like the snatcher game . A cold war between two countries where anyone could be a sleeper terminator.
Salvation was awesome!
I agree, very under rated! Just needed more Arnold!
T2 is so amazing it would have been hard to follow up…. But, Dam! They really missed the mark. 💩
It was garbage. It had the blueprints in T1 and T2 future scenes but was too ashamed of those so they turned it into US army vs Robots.
Also the robots throwing Connor away to try to provide him with a way to escape and later on heart punching Marcus on the spot is one of the most absurd things I ever saw next to Connor taking with a metal door on his face and acting like it was made out of foam.
Its only redeeming feature was not going with the original ending of killing Connor and transplant his face to Marcus that would turn it into proto-dark fate by rendering the events of T1 and T2 almost pointless reducing Connor to a face mask.
Yes it was
Salvation had good 1/6 scale toy line
The only way they could save it is making a new "Terminator 3" with Linda Hamilton as Sarah Connor, Norman Reedus as John Connor, and Callan Mulvey as a new T-1000. NO ARNOLD! NO MORE ARNOLD FFS. The plot could involve Judgement Day not being stopped, but just postponed (due to the T-800 arm that was left behind in the gears, and some T-1000 residue left at the scene from the battle near the end of T2). Have John and his mom living their lives out in Mexico at a diner/garage/gas station, where John runs the garage and his mom runs the diner. One day they randomly catch a news story on tv about a new AI company helping wounded soldiers. In the article they both notice something disturbing. They show off a new prosthetic arm a veteran is using after he lost his in the Afghan pullout. They both turn white with fear. It's a T-800 arm. Suddenly the power goes off and the scene cuts to a border patrol station where lone officer witnesses an electrical storm, steps out of his booth and is immediately killed. A T-1000 takes his identity (played by Callan Mulvey). That's how I would start a brand new Terminator 3 that would retcon all the garbage that came out after Terminator 2.
Linda don't want come back
Shartzy as T-800 and Lisa Hamilton Sarah Connor and Kyke Reese Michael Biehn this is the origin of the TERMINATOR Saga. Doing a RESET a REBOOT will always be worse than the original.
I like terminator 3 even though it was hated by fans i will buy it if it comes to 4k Steelbook
Sounds like Dutch from red dead redemption 2.
Tahiti!!! Have some faith!!!! 🤠
''You've always got a plan, James!''
I have a bad feeling about this. The Terminator saga should have ended in T2. Or made ciclical, as Mr H says. At this moment, it should be let to rest. It has too much baggage. Hollywood should think of something new.
Kinda ironic that James Cameron adapted an anime to live action then Terminator was adapted from live action to an anime
I am with you Mr H .. Salvation is Not Bad .. Not Great but Not Bad ....
Basically sums up my daily deposits in the lavatory.
Didn't Dark Fate appeal to a "modern" audience?
Yep
Personally, I love all the terminator movies with the exception of Dark Fate. The TV show is the one I'd most like to see a continuation of.
@@RationalRage9 This guy is fucking obsessed with shitty games. Yes I reviewed it under CryonicSuspension on Steam. You can read that I thought that it was a shitbox game.
He signed off on the last movie. No thanks.
How about a Terminator Vs Predator film?
I think that could work.
He just needs to finish the series continue on salvation and end with a trilogy in the future war no more cop out time travel bullshit.
It's over already. Dark fate ended it. Time for a reboot.
@@Scifi4life no fuck that dark fate is terrible. Also genysis and dark fate were failed shitty reboots we dont need a third
@@wizstorm172 🤣
When even the creator of a franchise doesn't respect the story he was telling, why the hell should the audience?
The first two films are fantastic and untouchable, 3rd on is disappointing although the ending was a shocking moment, Salvation was good and I liked it, Genisys and Dark Fate are a disgrace and should be struck down. Terminator Zero was a breath of fresh air and throughly enjoyable. Sarah Conner chronicles was watchable. I’d rather see another season of Zero to be honest than another film.
Genisys and Dark Fate had interesting ideas that were abysmally executed.
I actually enjoyed Genisys, can’t lie, it’s not fantastic but is definitely more palatable than Dark Fate… I wish cinemas gave refunds! Not even Arnie could save that steamer 💩 I can’t believe he accepted the role, Cameron must’ve slipped him an extra $10m and 5 years supply of stogies, because that script was “tell Stallone I’m thinking about taking it” (Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot) levels. A machine developing a conscience and becoming a working step-dad? Get out of my house!
T1, 2 and Dark Fate were my favourites.
Terminator would be a super easy series to end; 1. Make it so that humanity destroys Skynet by detonating nuclear weapons under Cheyenne Mountain (where Skynet's mainframe is housed) and inducing a volcanic reaction to melt Skynet. 2. John Connor sends back the T-800 to save himself in T-2, ensuring he survives to lead the human resistance. Ignore everything after Terminator 3 (Maybe keep Salvation, I liked that one) and then boom the series can end.
booo hisss 1/10
He discredited himself with dark fate. Should give the reins to Friedman and finish TSCC.
They never bring up Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles for some reason. Which came out between the third and fourth films. And a lot of fans think that's the best thing that we got after the second film.
That left on a cliffhanger too, it was all set up for a third season and then… nothing 😢
@@CoffeeMatt10 they had ideas for 4 seasons from what they said.
The executive producer and writer of that series has wrote the Avatar sequels.
@@johnmcternan4157 and Terminator: Dark Fate.
I agree with you Mr. H! Terminator 3 should’ve been like you described. I love the original cast and story in the first two movies. I always will.
I mean...we all thought Alien and Predator were done right? But then we got Prey and Romulus and all of a sudden we all want more (at least most of us). Last month we got Terminator Zero which breathed new life into the franchise. So perhaps Terminator can continue that streak? Im cautiously optimistic.
Had it been a random studio director telling us we have to move on from the known Terminator characters, I'd be less inclined to listen but since is James Cameron I'm more inclined to hear him out.
Terminator salvation from what I’ve seen looks fun honestly
It's pretty fun it's the 3rd best one to me.
Ur explanations about what they did to the franchise is golden
I used to have so much respect for James Cameron growing up. I thought of him as one of the best ever directors after his works with Terminator, Aliens, Titanic and Avatar.
But when he started to become so high on himself and make himself as some kind of aristocrat and started to act-out his social & political opinions in forms of attacking- and bashing, I gradually lost that respect. Now I see him as two-eras of a person. And the curremt James Cameron IMO sucks & blows at same time.
Pure ignorant and disrespectfull stupid open comments inc. “Testosterone being a poison” or saying he’s “Not making movies for toxic males anymore”, or "Want to have only female heroes combined with masculine villains" etc. resulted in that I have no interest in anything James Cameron has to say today and refuse to pay for his new movies.
Just the fact HE was responsible for releasing 3 of his old classics; Terminator 2, Aliens and True Lies in a "All new 4K A.I restoration with his overseen" in such bad quality still demanded premium pricing further made me feel Cameron is now another Hollywood D.B. These are his legacy movies and he s#its on his fans with this to earn more cash to his "modern audience" projects is disgusting IMO.
love the 1st film, and as a kid growing up i loved the 2nd. the games and toys were cool aswell...but honestly think the franchise needs to go back to its horror route..picturing the scene when the t-800 first loose its skin walking down that corridor in the factory, chills !!
Just let Japan handle it for now.
I too enjoy salvation, you should rewatch 3 it's aged pretty well compared to the crap we have now days
*_Dark Fate_* was worse than *_Genysis._*
Dark Fate prophesied its own… fate… ironically. It was a dark fate for the franchise… very dark.
Mr.H.. I love. your terminator 3 idea. The idea of an unavoidable time loop is a great idea.
if the lead character is a female im out.
I want a female lead
Yeah, a female lead in Terminator would be INSANE...
I don’t care who is the lead, the supporting cast, the writing, producing, directing etc. All need to be on point and right, don’t cast someone to appease a group, cast the best actor for the written roles and direct them to be able to act to full potential and pull fans into the movie
@@PHOENiXIlRiSiNGyup
@thelastredcoat1662 just imagine if a franchise like Alien had a female lead! Oh the horror!!!
We need more James Cameron Terminator movies about as much as we need more Ridley Scott Alien prequels..
So basically James Cameron is following the rest of modern Hollywood and going full woke for the "modern audience." Has he not watched the systematic destruction of Star Wars, Marvel, Indian Jones, Doctor Who etc?!?!
Like the rest of Hollywood, he's completely out of touch with reality. Let him waste millions of dollars on woke crap.
Avatar 2 wasn't woke and was about fatherhood.
@@jakewheeler6014 tell us about fatherhood ( I'm having flashbacks to Bert and Ernie in Sesame Street ).
Bring back the Terminator as an electric wheelchair rolling an old John Connor around , Kick-Ass 👍😎 , keep it going 😂
John can play himself - a homeless junkie in a wheelchair.
James Cameron announces he is about to get a check in the mail for saying "this movie is great" in a 30 second sound clip for each of them!
Yeah I mean... pretty much.
TERMINATOR DARK FATE the worst of the Saga.
》》》》》》 RESET SYSTEM 《《《《《《
Terminator Resistance did what all the sequels after T2 failed, if you could translate that to film perfectly, than you have my curiosity.
If it’s anything like Dark fate we’re doomed
Ps. My guilty pleasure is genesis I loved it, sorry not enough people did. I was really hoping back then that we’d see more of that universe because Sarah being the strong one leading instead of Kyle was a welcome change, it felt like a simpler concept, wasn’t a big fan of John being the villain but it’s ok I understand the direction
@@wisdomriver3476 i remember the first time watching genesis and thought it was okay in the first half, but it all fell apart at the end.
Bro I bloody been saying that for years!!!!! Close the loop with a trilogy that ends as Terminator 1 starts! See Kyle and T800 hit the streets of L.A T-800 looks over L.A from grittith observatory and film ends!!!!!
NO NO NO NO! Let it be, just do more netflix anime things that was good.
They need to be rated R, be gritty with a sense of dread and impending doom. And im sorry. John conner and Skynet have to be at the heart of it all. If they want to follow up the movies... Terminator: the sarah conner chronicles set a good template and premise for how things should ocurre moving forward for a long time.
Could be great, could be awful!
“New audience” means the audience they were hoping to get with Dark Fate…. Yeah, I’m gonna pass on this.
How about just a future war film. Dark like it was in 1st and 2nd films. None of the woke rubbish. NO MORE TIME TRAVEL. Show the horrors of the war. The camps, extermination of humans.
It needs to be a reboot. But I like your idea.
@@Scifi4life think it’s already had a reboot. Just make the film people have always wanted.
@@peterclarke9859 you should watch The Creator by Gareth Edwards.
@@RationalRage9 fuck Terminator Resistance. Nobody cares about a shitty Bethesda video game redux.
Terminator 3 has gotten better with age NGL especially when compared with some the garbage films we get these days, Not to mention one of the greatest endings ever, It always had great ending imo
The only thing Dark Fate conviced me of is that the wrong submersible blew up last year.
underrated comment
Wishing death upon cameron just because he's not making the films you want him to make is just pathetic.
I'm a fan of 1&2, Salvation was the only one after those two movies that was good after them, in my opinion. James should make a new movie about the future we're and how they reprogrammed the T800, how they get to the time machine and how they beat Skynet. Another way he could do it is make another character that is important for the future destruction of Skynet and have a T1 style killer terminator. If James is trying to please a new audience it's going to fail. He just needs to make it without trying to please anyone and just do what he did with the originals. It would be cool to make even a series if needed like Terminator Zero but with actual people and make it be about the orgins of T1 & T2.