Why Modern Male Characters Suck
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- Опубліковано 2 гру 2024
- Male Characters in the last few years have been taking a beating in movies and TV shows and though it is no fault of their own, writers have simply been using them as punching bags.
In this video, we will discuss the top three reasons that the male characters of today are so bad and what needs to be fixed in order to make them respectable again
Marvel has made a lot of people not care about Marvel anymore.
Disney buying and changing Marvel seemed to do this.
I stopped giving a hoot about MCU films after Endgame. That movie felt like the finale. It was a wild ride keeping up with the series since the beginning. Nowadays, I couldn't care less.
Disney should never own any IP that they didn’t create
GARBAGE 🗑 TRASHING MALE AND FEMALE CHARACTERS GARBAGE
Pride day period
Feels refreshing to hear a female call them out, respect
It sounds sheepish. Again, no one EVER calls out male perfect characters as if ONLY females can be poorly written mary sues.
@@baalfgames5318Give me an example.
Go ahead.
@@baalfgames5318only females can be poorly written mary sues!!!!
@@baalfgames5318Perfect Male characters dont exist. And Male characters dont belittle women. Only whiny feminists like mary sues.
@@baalfgames5318 Can you provide an example of a recent Gary Stu? I honestly can't think of many, most male characters today tend to be flawed, albeit all in the same boring way (usually PTSD and being an asshole). Maybe Tony Stark?
Old days, I totally agree. Luke Skywalker and ESPECIALLY James Bond are power fantasy Gary Stu's. I guess Luke gets a liiittle development, but Bond is just impeccably suave the entire time.
Well said. Boys need more role models to look up to. And shaming men and saying they can't be role models can lead to further problems down the line, because they might seek other role models that might be far worse than fictional characters.
Not even down the line.
Thats exactly why Andrew Tate is famous.
@@brycesumrall7248 Nailed it. Andrew Tate is exploiting males so degraded by media that they can only find someone like him as a hero.
Disney does not care about men.
There are good male role models from old media (Ron Swanson from Parks and Rec, spaghetti western movies starring Clint Eastwood, etc.) and Korean media show some too
@@brycesumrall7248nice generalization
They're doing it on purpose. Its 100% intentional.
Yep, the idea is to indoctrinate a new generation of young boys and girls. I'm not quite sure of the point of it all though. Do the writers dream of the asexual matriarchy of Barbie world or do they dream of some sort of lesbian utopia? Anyhow, there is nothing at all wrong with creating inspiring female role models but the destruction of all male role models speaks loudly of insecurity, malice and misandry.
Yes because politics is downstream of culture this is all used to try and influence culture thus influencing politics down the line. Sadly it's worked more than we like to admit the divergence in voting patterns between men and women is increasing significantly.
And people love it. People don't care. That's the sad part
EXCELLENT NERDWORD WORK. 😊😊😊😊
By far one of the most annoying traits in modern male characters is the need to gush and affirm the female heroine. Either that of be utterly intimidated and act insecure. Either way they immediately recognise their inferiority and act in such a way as that it might as well be flashed up on the screen 'SHE'S BETTER! SHE'S BETTER!'
The most cringeworthy example was in Supergirl, where after fighting Superman they made a point of him saying he wasn't holding back and she as 100% stronger than him. He just outright said it. Despite them both being Kryptonian and him having twice her muscle mass she's stronger- and the audience better damn well know it.
Can't wait to see them bring back punisher. Brutha didn't care what people thought and survived solely off of willpower
FYI: you do that with a lady in real life, and she will look at you as a pathetic "nice guy."
Thor looked like he was making a hostage tape as he said, "I like this one..." at Brie Larson in End Game as she glared threateningly at him.
This is how other characters act around a Mary Sue.
@@ejtattersall156 dk what "lady" youre referring to.
There is a deep irony in the way so many people have gone after the nerd community for reacting against these kinds of portrayals. They brand nerds as weak, impotent incels who can only feel powerful in fantasy and who, when they feel their fantasy worlds threatened, express their fear as sexism and racism. But how is this different than the unrealistic (and therefore impotent) power fantasies embedded in these new female characters? And if it isn't different, shouldn't we start calling nerd culture "empowering" instead of passive? Seems like they would have to endorse that if they don't want to turn their nasty insults against themselves.
It's been my experience that anything people from that corner of the political spectrum accuse you of is usually something THEY are already doing to others.
Feminists complain about objectification and gaslighting, yet thinking nothing of doing it to men.
Gamer gaters complain about sexism and inclusivity in a a sphere of entertainment that they haven't even been in more than a few years. All the real female gamers and nerds where here the whole time and were overwhelmingly accepted.
They complain about racism and sexism in our institutions, yet support laws that BLATANTLY discriminate against white males. Seriously, how many articles do I need to read complaining about how there are "too many white men" in x-industry? Like jeez, if you really think that. Just start trying to kill us off so we can at least have that war already.
Stop using the word incel. Men have opinions and they dont need to cater you whiny women feelings.
You proved her point with this comment
@VarunK-ii8eb what's funny is that this comment only proves the very point of this video right
The frequency with which male heroes/main characters die to redeem themselves in movies is scary. The suggestion that men, having made a mistake, should exist only long enough to do one last good action, before their value runs out and they must die.
While the Last Jedi does this, badly, the Rise of Skywalker does it even worse: where Kylo surrenders his life so that Rey can live, the movie tells us that Kylo's value < Rey's value, or that Kylo's only value as character is to give his life. I'm not opposed to stories where character's sacrifice themselves per se, but if it's a good story telling idea, why don't we see men and women both doing it?
Chris Rock wisely said: "Women, children and dogs are unconditionally loved while men are only tolerated for as long as they can provide". It's just the ideology agenda saying us that the male gender is disposable after all.
To be fair, that's not a recent phenomenon. I mean, there's a reason why men get drafted and why the policy "women and children first" exists. It actually goes back to chivalric romance and even Greek mythology, with death being the redemption more often than not in the later. Look at Jason or Heracles.
dosint mean it should happen why are you comparing fairy tales with irl
Fascinating video. I've also noticed an insidious decline in the representation of young boys in the media that is traditionally targeted towards them (video games, fantasy films and shows). Instead there is an over representation of little girls. It's just odd because growing up, my friends and I took a lot of arrows being labeled as geeks and nerds for consuming these media. Now that I'm older and these things have become mainstream, we're sort of being cast aside; presumably because they assume men will automatically consume these media, so they only need to target women. And it's not that they just choose to include more women (which is perfectly fine and proper), but they almost always do it at the expense of their male counterparts.
One day, the woke will be gone. Plus, God of War made us feel more badass. Plus, there’s also Reacher. He’s super badass. We still love Harry Potter and we still believe in the magic of Harry Potter.
This is why mostly consume korean media because they show male characters as actually masculine and as Men
I have one little nitpick here.
The "equly trained" argument does not really work in real life because different people start to train and fight based on the knowledge of their strenghts and weaknesses, once they have reached a certain skill level.
I see that in mediaeval long sword, where at some point, strength is less of a factor, because you can work around you opponent being stronger. While strength certainly does help, agility and speed are as, if not even more important. A sword in example, is a force multiplier but you only need a certain amount on force to lets say sever an arm and force is a combination of strength and speed.
This does however not undermine your points - in in fact strengthens your argument about bad writing.
The writers assume women need to be as strong as men to be superior fighters, while they only need to fight differently.
Especially in the scene she used to make this point. the Wakandan could probably beat John Walker, not because he is weak but because he is still relatively inexperienced. She lived through the battle for Wakanda and the infinity wars, John Walker had only started super heroing recently, no amount of strength can make up for that. granted, he still should have put up some kind of fight. Inexperienced does not mean incapable, he is still an Olympian and a super soldier, he should have been a tough and opponent with a rewarding fight.
It's not just the writers and producers. Some male actors are to blame as well. Harrison Ford has willingly participated in the assassination of the two characters who made him famous, Han Solo and Indiana Jones. He could have said, "No. This is not how it ends for Han Solo. This is not how Indiana Jones goes out." But for money, or for sheer nihilism, he took the money and allowed Hollywood to destroy characters he breathed real life into.
Mark Ruffalo, Mark Hamill, Chris Hemsworth, Tom Hiddleston, they made characters people loved, and then they participated in their meaningless destruction. There were other options. They could have said, "Re-cast the film. I won't do it," or "re-write this. This is not my character." But they didn't.
If they can't be bothered to care about their work, why should we?
Im gonna give Indiana Jones a pass because hes in his 80s!!!! I actually thought he was dead by now and I've seen Dial Of Destiny. Okay granted, the action scenes have to be cut down and there is some CGI because be fair, at his age, he is remarkably fit no joke but there is no way he can do the stunts he did when he was a much younger man. I didnt watch any of the Star Wars movies past Episode 7 when I saw the new Jedi and my mind just shut down. Not because she was female, I support female characters, yes sometimes even the high powered ones because we also had high powered male characters so there needed to be balance, but because there was nothing about her that suggested she'd be any way capable of besting a sith(even a whiny emo one. I really disliked Vader's grandkid). In fact since the female brain is MORE emotional than males(according to science and the way we are brought up) wouldn't that make her MORE suspectible to being influenced by the dark side than the males are? Regarding Thor? I liked Ragnarok, it was fast paced and fun but Thor: Love and Thunder was a bit too much OTT. The whole sub plot with the weapons was confusing at best and why Jane went to Valhalla when she isnt even of Asgard, I have no idea. Whoever took over writing Thor: Love and Thunder, didn't even understand the mythology properly. Regarding the Loki series, I've seen another vid that explains this, the reason he doesnt take the infinity stones is that apparently outside their respective timelines they don't have any power at all, they're just glitterly paperweights.
Thing is this is not always the case.
There is the case where the actor only gets told his lines and not knowing anything about the rest of the film.
@@spider-man500It’s actually worse than that. Either the male actors get lied to about the director’s true intentions for their character or, in the tragic case of Mark Hamill, they’re told to sit down, shut up and take their emasculation like a good little beta. If they so much as speak a word, they will be threatened with a lawsuit, and full on blacklisting as a final punishment should they continue to rebel.
ur just fool, cus noone socialize about that. unlike women and feminism they always play the victim card while they alr got more rights than men. feminism are oversocialize
Mark Hamil openly criticized the writers about the portrayal of Luke Skywalker. You’re not giving the actors enough credit, since if they didn’t comply their contracts could just be terminated and filled in with CGI. The people you should be mad at are corporate executives hiring and approving “writers” who should have no place in the business.
I’ve noticed this too and it’s weird to see. They make male character incompetent now while the women are absolutely perfect. Its weird when you notice it. Its not for everything (almost for Disney now a days) but its happening way more often.
This has been happening since the late 1970s, but it was quite subtle at the time and not widely exposed like it is nowadays.
This goes both ways.
Glad to hear it from someone else, same stuff I've been seeing and thinking in these new movies. Grate video! Keep up the good work.
The least desireable traits in modern male characters these days are the women who write them.
Women and men
@@pyroaeris3817 mens power is in proving they can provide and protect, womens power is in body language and persuasion, you have no idea the power a nice butt a pretty face, and a good attitude has on men, whereas a man with a billion dollars can be ugly as sin and have a horrible attitude, and a woman having the ability to provide and protect a man, not many men would ever care for or want, where as they generally do want to do that for a woman.
Men in modern movies and TV are either idiots, villains, or dead/dying. It's rather comical.
For me, weak men are fine. But what ticks me off is if they don't mature or progress in the story to make them stronger and stand up for themselves, then there's a problem with the character.
It would also help if there were strong male characters for them to contrast with, even if they don't progress themselves.
For me it's not
For me, weak men are fine if they are a kind of Checkov's gun--i.e. a promise that there is a way this weakness will play out for plot or character development.
The problem is weak men for deconstruction because it's popular. Deconstruction is good when it leads to a meaningful exploration of the implications stemming from that.
Another problem is when weak men is purely shallow flattery-- for political points, because you need performative diversity to get a chance with the Academy, to pander to some mythical "modern audience," or to flatter the author's or producers' egos.
What I find extremely odd about Disney’s disempowerment of men is that the entire company is run mostly by men. What’s the reasoning behind that? Is it a cloak to hide their control? What do you think?
They say Kathleen Kennedy has some dossieurs revealing extremely ugly things about Disney's top executives in case they ever plan to get rid of her...
It's only a matter of time until a new generation of talented writers create a new generation of inspired heroes. The real question is whether or not they'll sell out.
I did at first agree about Bruce in She-Hulk:
Bruce appeared to be yet another example of the male punching bag character against which the female main character can show how much better they are, UNTIL the end of the series when we see that everything he warned her would happen had come true for her through the events of the show.
They drew no attention to this mind you; it would have been nice to have a single throwaway line of "what do you know, Bruce was right".
One way to solve this "men are lame, women are cool" lazy writing is to show the smugness they have for being in this position to be categorically a character flaw. That way you could have the male-female dynamic be:
"man was lame, but well intentioned - woman character was skilful, but a dick" - cue reconciliation scene later on.
Seeing the genders flipped on these roles would be refreshing as well, though making a female main character appear stupid would shock the sensibilities of modern audiences too much at this stage.
I like that alternative. It makes both characters reconcile with the consequences of their actions, and puts them on the same level but is done in an organic way through character growth.
Im glad theres still ladies like you nowadays understanding that men and women being naturally different is simply and absolutely a scientific biological fact not some kind of shady discrimination or sexism or degrading of women in any way
Men strive for greatness through example, something completely lacking thus making modern men weak
Wait, they said that? I love D&D stories. Why would they alienate the people who like these stories? Of corse, i ask this every time a modern film comes out.... I never get a good answer.
One of the most popular characters in the new Star Trek programs is Chris Pike, the captain of the enterprise. He came into a show full of angst, violent and unlikable characters with warmth, drive and charisma. He was almost the only good thing about that show. So likable he almost single handily made HIS show a really. There has always been something off about him in his tv show, though, and I couldn’t quite put my finger on it till an episode where he learns a planet is sacrificing kids. Basically, he has no fangs. He is way too nice. They made him none threatening. When you think of Picard or Kirk you always bring up their moral outrage, those are some of the best scenes from those characters. When someone does something malicious they don’t stand by nor do they stay quiet. There is rage on their part to do the right thing. Pike doesn’t have this. Yeah, he stands up for the morally correct but he is never imposing. He’s downright bashful at times. When he’s on the bridge he’s not commanding. He’s nice and subdued. The original Pike was stern, rugged, even. This Pike is clean and gentle. Good traits to have, no doubt, but he’s also a captain without a commanding presence. That episode where he learns they sacrifice kids, he stands there, kinda meekly, asking ‘hey, guys, what’re ya doin’?’ and it almost came out of nowhere when he starts swinging because his behavior from talk to action is such a drastic change it came off as erratic.
Yes, the crew of Discovery seemed like the inmates of a lunatic asylum - an asylum located in Greenwich Village.
Thats my with the new Pike and most of the male characters in new Star Trek, even Spock has moments of "huh?" because its like the writers are deathly afraid of the men doing anything worthy of leadership and praise unless a women is involved or can undercut him.
I don't mind Walker losing to the Dora Milaje. He was outnumbered and not ready for a fight. What's really wild about that scene though is that the first thing they do to make their entrance is straight up try to murder John. John, crazily enough, then tries to defuse the situation (which is such a lawful good and likeable move), fails, and they go back to trying to murder him and Lemar. Two of America's highest profile soldiers are about to be killed by Wakandans for no clear reason, and Sam and Bucky treat this potential diplomatic firestorm as a joke.
That scene is written absolutely terribly but not because the women were winning a fight in which they were more numerous and better equipped.
I think much of it comes from an 'eye for an eye' mentality over the last several years. Don't get me wrong, purely in fiction alone plenty of female characters have been done wrong. But over the last several years it feels kind of like the 'popular' thing to do is basically do the same thing to male characters. Problem comes from how it gets done. Which usually has them written stupid purely for the sake of making the story work, and yeah, building up the female main character(s). And obviously, nothing wrong with a male character playing second fiddle or supporting a female main. Same goes for the other way around, really in general there will obviously be one or more characters in such stories that act as support, or are secondary characters. It's just how it goes. But when they're written to be so incredibly stupid, or just so incapable of kind of milk toast bland just for the sake of the female lead(s), that's where the problem lies for me. It sometimes then I feel hurts the female characters cause it almost comes across as if the writers feel those characters aren't good enough without cutting down the ones around them.
I mean hell, take Kim Possible. Ron was a great character and he was support. Kim, obviously the lead, was her own good character with both her own strengths and weaknesses. Ron also had his moments to shine too. And while he couldn't go toe-to-toe with the villains like Kim, that didn't stop him from doing what he could even through the absurd comedy. And you never felt like Ron was being written stupid just to make Kim appear better. That's how it needs to be done, in such situations.
To go along with the above, and was touched upon in the video, in media lately it feels like when there's a female lead basically all the male characters are written to either be evil and/or misogynistic, harmless goofballs, or just that kind of bland harmless where you clearly don't expect them to do anything or be capable of anything. It's also kind of bad when the media is trying to do a romantic interest. Cause generally they'll put a couple options out there, but it's very clearly the only one guy who's generally none of those from above. So it's obvious, cause they're the only ones half way interesting or can seriously be seen as feasible. It does make it frustrating, cause honestly both male and female characters can be kick ass, and can and should be looked up to regardless of gender. But when one or other keeps being painted in such a poor way...yeah.
Thor was alpha male throughout Thor: Love and Thunder. Thor saved the people on that planet at the beginning, he saved Sif, he saved Valkyrie, he saved the children and he save Jane (when Gorr wounded her and then leapt in the air to finish her off ). Thor also took on some responsibility by adopting Love. How many men are refusing to take responsibility as fathers today?
Btw, Valkyrie knew where Eternity was, NOT Thor. She told Thor how to get there.
One more thing: If Loki is correct in Thor 2 that Asgardians live to be about 5,000 years old and Thor is only 1,500 years old, then Thor is equivalent to a 24 year old male today. How immature is THAT? When I was 24 I finally started to get it together and I got married at 25.
The humor was cringe in Love & Thunder but it was really not woke like many claim (only Korg and his lewd crude song and Dwayne - which seemed like another cringe woke joke - we're they poking fun at wokeness?).
I agree on a lot of points in your video but with male on female fight the male is always the strongest but that's in a fair fight. We've seen many stories throughout history where heroes fight impossible creatures and people and overcoming it with their sheer will and inteligence. And I feel like if a female character is well written can fight on equal footing with a man.
You’re talking about exceptions, and exceptions don’t make the rule. Full grown women in combat sports have been taken down by teenaged boys in their first sparring sessions. Professional soccer teams have been beaten by high school boys. Serena Williams and her sister lost severely to a lazy guy who couldn’t even crack the top 200 (at the time, he’s lower now) and showed up with a hangover. Trans MMA fighters crack the skulls of biological women in their fights.
On a balance of probabilities, when it comes to physicality, men nearly always win.
@@alexman378you like realism on women when it comes to combat but you really think a male is going to take down a Goliath in real life?
@@goldmind9399 A male did take down Goliath in real life. Beyond that, men established the species on the top of the food chain by being able to take down immensely larger and more dangerous creatures/ individuals.
So I don’t really know what you were trying to do there, but it failed on all levels.l
They can easily make a strong female character who is likable and doesn't have to bring down the male character like Nik Khan in Extraction 2.
Yup, this has been the sad reality as of late. The only male leads I enjoyed seeing, or in my case playing as, was Cal Kestis (Jedi Survivor) and Clive Rosfield (Final Fantasy XVI).
I am that kid marvelled by the poise and innate talent of Luke (my namesake) back in the day. To see Luke dispossessed (and the whole spirit of SW for that matter) was a disappointment.
Instead he should literally have gone into Master of the Universe territory, albeit in his style: admired, humble, peaceful, powerful, and respected.
I am glad someone like you can so eloquently denounce this betrayal.
He was the connection for the whole story. He was the eye of the storm.
4:49 "It simply doesn't work that way." The summation of it all. I know some folks would like it to work that way, but it doesn't. Men have the physical advantages; women have the psychological advantages. We see this all day, every day.
Men are psychologically better. They dont manipulate others for their needs.
Unless that male character is played by Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise characters are awesome
No Tom is too egotistical as Tony Stark.
Ethan Hunt is one of the best male characters & Masculine figures in Fiction along with John Preston in Equilibrium played by Christian Bale, my personal favourite.
@@biguy617bro forgot to switch accounts
The d&d movie was ok to me specifically because it was d&d. Characters are often crazy and unrealistic, a nerd may play a big barbarian, a girl may play a boy, ect.
Spot on everywhere else though!
Always nice to hear a woman who actually likes men, and male characters call out this rubbish!
One of the worst modern examples however I've seen of this trope is in the wheel of time Amazon series.
It's my lady's favourite fantasy book series, and one I also enjoy a great deal, so we were looking forward to seeing the adaptation.
It's also a series which really explores the differences between men and women, even in it's magic system and world building.
It features some awesome, complex and very nuanced characters, male and female, and yet the series just turned into a feminist slog fest, with every female character super powered and constantly complemented, and male characters so bumbling and incompetent, one character literally kills his own wife (an insertion of the series), by swinging an axe around the wrong way in the first episode! They even utterly remove the idea of male and female magic as well! though make everything bad in the world the men's fault!
It was an appalling bastardisation of an amazing book series, indeed I deliberately avoided watching Rings of power because I'm as huge a Tolkien fan as my wife is a wheel of time fan, and I didn't' want to see Tolkien's work get the same scummy treatment, which (by all accounts), it obviously did in rings of power!
I read the first Wheel of Time recently. I found it hard to get into. I haven't tried the series yet.
@@MartynStanleyAuthor I'd recommend reading the first two, maybe three books before deciding on WoT.
the first book is in some ways a commentary on, and emulation of standard fantasy, and a lot of the more complex ideas and character relations in the series don't come in until later.
It also doesn't help that Robert Jordan can be relatively obscure in his writing, including a lot of nuances, behaviours and even modes of speech that you don't notice until reread, but which can be down right confusing first time around, this is yet another reason the down right simplistic amazon Tv series is such a travesty.
WoT does have it's problems, especially in the later books, of too many characters, and not dropping plotlines, and of matters not moving along fast enough, though I will say rereading for the third time with my lady, discussing as we go, these problems aren't quite as bad (though reading the series with a major, die hard, WoT fangirl like my wife definitely helps).
I also began with low expectations, thinking WoT was a fairly standard D&D fantasy, so was pleasantly surprised, but if you go in expecting something more like game of thrones with intensive action and instant blood and guts, that's not correct either.
WoT is very much it's own thing, and that's not for everyone, which is fair enough, though it's a series I'd recommend to any fans of epic fantasy.
@@darktenor4967 I feel like it’s aimed at younger readers from book 1. I will give 2 a try though as I have it!
@@darktenor4967 I feel like it’s aimed at younger readers from book 1. I will give 2 a try though as I have it!
@@MartynStanleyAuthor Wow! It's true book one does take a conscious mimicking of the archetypal "farmboy leaves peasant village to save the world", fantasy story, however yee godds does that change.
Not through blood and guts (though there's some of that), but through intensive factionalisation and political manoeuvring.
Honestly, if anything Robert Jordan can get a little too obscure in places, expecting the reader to pick up on details, nuances, and very subtle allusions.
Though not as grim as game of thrones, the politics and differing interests can get every bit as complex, especially when you add in subtle social differences, and yes differences between men and women as well.
So many franchises were butchered all in favour for making the women "stronger and masculine", but make men wimpy and just pathetic. I'm not ashamed to admit I like strong male AND female characters if the writing is good. But if the writing is not good then I have no reason to care about the characters or the movie or show they're starred in. Woke Hollywood can go rot.
Marvel fucked up soooooo bad when it comes to The Hulk.... I'll never forgive them for that.
And Thor in the latest movie of his. It was legitimacy difficult to watch
i learned the word "pusillanimous" yesterday. i feel like i've been lied to my whole life.
What i find weird is that they don't seem to be able to lift women up, without knocking men down, why?
Feminism
This is the struggle since the beginning: one vs the other, instead of recognizing the strengths of both man and woman and using those within writing and creating characters to bring out the best in each other. Avatar The Last Airbender (the animated series) does a great job of this.
I am not giving Disney a pass on this but my personal take of why Luke was so flippant with Rey was because he could feel she was a descendant of palpatine. The franchise likes to quote Lucas "it's like poetry it rhymes" only it's not rhyming it's echoing. As Ben never told Luke his lineage Luke knew if she knew beforehand she would've embraced the emperor wholeheartedly because he would've accepted her, but that's my take from the lackluster writing in the majority of the star wars saga. Thank you this video was awesome.❤
You make a compelling argument. I think there had to be a perception amongst the creators of modern media that males have had unfair preferential placement in the past and they need to correct that by over-compensating and reducing the male hero archetype. We saw it in Last Jedi, I'm told it's the same in Dial of Destiny, and from what you're saying it's prevalent in Marvel too. The thing is we HAVE had strong female characters and we didn't need to hurt the male archetype to give them the prestige they deserve. Princess Leia in the OT was a great female character and the role she played was fitting. We already had a female Indiana Jones in the form of Lara Croft, we don't really gain anything by having Indy pass the hat and the whip to a talented, but poorly cast female 'god-daughter'. It's like the whole Sequel Trilogy thing. Rey, from my perspective doesn't earn her success in the same way Luke had to - and that harms her character. Luke, could have been handled soooooooooooooooo much better. There was literally no reason to portray Luke the way they did other than to stick to fingers up to fans of the franchise and say, 'Star Wars is ours now and this is what we're doing with it, and if you don't like it Forget you!' I like subversive writing and stories. I don't object entirely to Luke throwing his lightsabre over his shoulder... but... Yeah, people are calling this bull out and it'll cause a sway the other way. Hopefully eventually the issues and the hamfisted attempts to resolve them will even out and we'll start to get good portrayals of heroes and heroines that don't need to reduce each other in order to prove a point.
You can build females up without putting males down. Feminism is different from misandry.
Excellent video. We deserve better writing. I want my daughter, 15 to be inspired by realistic hero’s
I like your analysis. It's difficult to ..... we've been hammered so so much. Thanks .
I love these two movies examples you've used.
I am a fan of marvel comics, but the majority of the movies suck. Star Wars, I no longer watch after the ridiculous ways n lazy writing that Disney used as story telling.
At this point, my drive for being a story teller has reached a point where I want to just not apply for any major studios and just do a solo project to prove to these mega corps that we can still make good heroes without anything clouding our judgement
If the writers really wanted to do, She Hulk justice instead of her chastising her cousin about what she goes through as a woman she should empathize with Bruce & see that he's gone through more sh!t than she has. He's spent years being on the run, trying to control his anger to keep from turning into the Hulk, causing damages, destruction & harm to everyone around him. He has to isolate himself from others, living a lonely existence to the point he tried to off himself Jennifer lets her cousin know that he's not alone anymore & they'll get through things together. As the show goes on Bruce does get some normalcy back into his life as he teaches Jennifer how to control her new powers, they crack jokes & take jabs at each other. I agree with NerdWord about how John Walker was portrayed they shouldn't have had him be bested by the Dora Milage look at Killmonger in Black Panther like Walker he was trained in the military, with other forms of hand to hand combat skills & he but all beat the ever-loving snot out of T'Challa's personal guards. Why is Walker being made to look like a pansy? I like the Dora their badass fighters but a man is built to be much stronger & more durable than a female I'm not being sexist here. Even Loki was also treated with disrespect in the TV series he's one of the smartest & most cunning characters in Marvel & the let him get his a$$ kicked & be treated like a moron. He's called the silver tongue for a reason, he manipulate his way out of any situation he's gotten his brother & his friends outof so many jams due to their incomitance & thinking strength is everything. No, brains is everything even He-Man uses his intelligence to get the job done.
Thank you for saying all that. I agree with every single word and have been saying that for years myself. These weak male characters are annoying, unrealistic and no depth. There is nothing more attractive than a strong man. They only look strong with muscles for days, but then a tiny female can defeat them anytime anywhere... WTF
This is what happens when writing rooms need to be a minimum half filled by feminist activists.
I grew up with heroes of both genders, I only knew of two genders back then and barely knew there were two genders.
Yet, there truly were strong female individuals in the world that I was highly aware of growing up.
One that comes to mind right away is Golda Meir. I grew up in the US, but I knew that she was the Prime Minister of Israel. Oh, and no, I'm not Jewish. She just happened to be the first woman who I thought of as a hero. At least to me.
I have always considered serving the US in the military to be a part of my duty. And so, at 17 I enlisted in the military and spent the next 15 years serving as a sniper.
While serving I learned about the women who served the USSR as snipers while they were invaded by Germany in World War II. Lyudmila Pavlichenko was the most successful female sniper with 309 confirmed kills. That, to me, is a hero. These bloody Germans are invading her country, so she picks up her rifle and kit and takes care of business. Not less or more than a guy like me. Frankly, I find that as heroic as it is refreshing.
I do know that the Israel Defense Force is made up of men and women. Together, they have one of the most difficult jobs handed to a modern military: keep Israel safe, while surrounded by, and infiltrated by her enemies. That's a daunting task carried out by the women and men of the IDF.
I enjoyed this, as I've enjoyed all the rest I've seen. Great stuff!
To be honest, I think this is one of the reasons I don't watch a lot of movies anymore. Men are weak and give me nothing to strive for. Indiana Jones is one I think of where even though he's not the deepest character, his strength and solidity really resonated with me growing up. Don't get that much anymore
🦉🐯 Some adaptations (or organisations) have a way of castrating strong male characters, properly and seriously emasculating them, putting their own narrative to the forefront, whether it makes sense or… usually not, their only success is via a multitude of lies with falsified (purchased) figures showing positive likes! And we, the long-standing fans who’ve grown up with these heroes are left to just… suck it up.
One of the most sinister things about all of this, is the effect that it *will* have on society.
The stories a society tells itself, and tells *about* itself, both reflect, and *shape* that culture.
The human race isn't going to suddenly become saints and quit producing villains.
Boys and men see how they get treated in media... even the heroes.
Two things are going to happen...
1) Men aren't going to want to be heroes anymore, because no one wants to be treated like that.
2) Women are going to have to be their own heroines.
Like Dave Chapelle said, "Chivalry is (no more) and..."
Movies and shows like those discussed in this video, are just "making water" on the grave.
Hey, Kaetie! There's no doubt that there's an endemic, concerted effort to undercut male characters to elevate female ones in a ham-fisted, inorganic manner to promote an agenda at the expense of narrative. Every beloved and traditionally male-oriented franchise has been affected by this. However, some of your examples don't fall into this category and actually work.
Smart Hulk served a purpose narratively and was the logical end-point of an integration arc. If Marvel intends to do World War Hulk, the reversion to savagery can be mined for a great deal of pathos as well. I just wish we had gotten one more solo savage movie or a less comedic take on Planet Hulk in "Ragnarok" where he was a reduced to a sulky baby by Waititi. The best, most comic-accurate and psychologically insightful Hulk movie was the proto-MCU "Hulk" by Ang Lee which I consider the true starting point of the MCU in my head canon as that was the intention at the time. I agree that his role in "She-Hulk" was a travesty as was that entire show which destroyed MULTIPLE characters!
"Falcon and the Winter Soldier" was one of the best TV entries for its realism, comic-sourced contributions and continuity with the MCU as a whole. Sam was ALWAYS sympathetic to the Flagsmasher cause but opposed to their methods. Standing up for the disenfranchised against indifferent bureaucracy is something Steve would have championed as well. Sam's background as a counselor enabled him to put aside personal grievances and to find common ground. The problem here was Erin Kellyman who was as grossly miscast here as she was in "Solo" as Enfys Nest. Gender-bending Morgenthau was fine but required someone more forbidding, charismatic or commanding. She was never credible as the leader. She must have a powerful friend to keep getting choice roles in huge properties. She was also one of the reasons "Willow" was unwatchable!
Wyatt Russell was terrific as John Walker! He threaded the needle between earnest and smug beautifully. He's not meant to be a suitable substitute but he's also not really a villain. He gets a tragic fall, a comeuppance and a redemption. Having the Dora Milaje trounce him was completely believable because those ladies LOOK LIKE they could do it! They're muscular, agile, armored and fierce! The defeat convinces him he has to level up by taking the serum since they weren't enhanced so the plot is advanced. Usually slim women are made to triumph over beefy men improbably but, in this instance, it was totally credible because the Dora Milaje are like Themiscyran Amazons. .
Loki not taking the Stones makes sense because they can only be used in their native universe and are inert at the TVA. The timelines from which they came have all been pruned. Is he supposed to carry a pocketful of rocks everywhere hoping that one might be of use somehow? He was in a state of shock at the revelation, too. I did not care for the strident, prickly and generally unpleasant Sylvie. Lady Loki should have been cast as she is illustrated in the comics as a voluptuous, sultry, sensuous raven-haired femme fatale. Being seduced by a variant as sly as himself as a narcissistic joke would have worked much better that way.
Unrelated but how could Lamentis be colonized in 2077? Lamentis is an extrasolar world! That means interstellar travel will be possible in the MCU in the next 50 years since they are now set at 2025 in-universe! Is some technological quantum leap about to pop off? A more realistic date would have been 2277 like the Star Trek timeline.
The treatment of Thor is a crime. Waititi has no respect and Hemsworth needs to be slapped straight. It's abhorrent.
"Obi-Wan Kenobi" was a dumpster fire that wasted McGregor, Christensen, Smits, Edgerton, Neeson and everyone who participated. A pointless exercise that damaged canon and robbed the raw power of the 'Twilight of the Apprentice' two-parter from "Rebels" for its climax! A cynical, traumatized Kenobi could have worked with a different flashback each episode informing a present-day scenario. However, Leia was the focus instead of Luke. A wasted opportunity to explore Qui-Gon, Satine, Maul, Anakin, Ahsoka and Krrsantan.
You would be remiss not to include "Shang-Chi", an atrocious adaptation of the comics written by Doug Moench and illustrated by Paul Gulacy which were gritty, sexy, violent and espionage-heavy. In the comics, Shang-Chi is the son of the Sax Rohmer pulp villain Dr. Fu Manchu but they changed it in the film to have him be the son of Tony Stark's nemesis in the comics, the Mandarin. The license to use Fu Manchu had long since expired and the Chinese government would have prohibited distribution of the film in the lucrative Asian market due to cultural hypersensitivity about "Yellow Peril" stereotypes. Instead, both the Mandarin and Shang-Chi are nerfed into a lovelorn widow with sentimental aspirations to reconnect with his prodigal son and a Beta-male slacker suffering from arrested development, respectively. Despite sanitizing and defanging the story, the Chinese government banned the film anyway so Disney compromised their artistic integrity for nothing!
The Ten Rings are the Mandarin's weapons and are a product of Makluan science, an alien civilization whose beings resemble talking dragons. Hence, the motif of talking dragons in Chinese folklore. They have nothing to do with Shang-Chi whose stories are like a mash-up of Bruce Lee and James Bond! It's a 125-issue run that Quentin Tarantino grew up devouring!
Tremendous mega-stars like Tony Leung and Michelle Yeoh are frustratingly wasted in this dreck! Shang-Chi's sister and Awkwafina are given the limelight. Ben Kingsley reprising Trevor Slattery was painfully unfunny. He should have appeared as a torture victim sadistically kept alive for the temerity of impersonating the Mandarin as a way of demonstrating the ruthlessness and narcissism of the villain. This film was a huge disappointment and completely unrecognizable from the source material. A terrible shame as it could have been as culturally significant to the Asian community as "Black Panther" had been to the African community.
Excuses, excuses, dude.
I'm not sure they'd know how to write a strong male character - or a female one (given that doing so often relies on magically being better than anyone else). But some of this is likely the medium. If the film is a rollercoaster ride, then you don't slow down and find the emotion. If you're desperately trying to be postmodern or meta, then you're probably focused on quippy banter or landing a joke. I'm not sure you can create a strong character if you can't go 30 seconds without a joke. If you engage with a character, then whether they're strong or not, they probably have something interesting going on. Strength in either gender likely starts with motivation and character. But if you're dealing with someone who wants every film to have the bright colors and pop feel of an episode of Lizzy McGuire, then you're not going to get anywhere. You might remember a scene in which a character is strong, but you often need the hour of work - seeing their struggles, seeing what they have to lose etc.
There’s a novel out there that completely averts that. It’s called The Changing of the Gods by Anthony J. Miano. The main character is Hades.
I can't help but contrast what Marvel did with Hulk versus what was done with Kratos in the new God of War games. Both had a similar starting point: a destructive rage monster that was a threat to everyone around them. Kratos literally ended the world in his quest for revenge. Yet while Hulk became a side character, Kratos grew up, for lack of a better term. When the game that starts in Midgard, Kratos is haunted by his past, both figuratively and literally. He doesn't want to be the psychotic rage monster anymore, he just wants to be a father and for his son to have a better life than him. However, he struggles with being a father because of his own upbringing in the Agoge leaving him no idea how to actually be one. He calls Atreus "boy" because Zeus tainted the word "son" by only using it when he was manipulating Kratos. Circumstances force him to pick up the axe and later even the Blades of Chaos. He's forced to confront the past that he wanted to abandon and come to terms with it or risk losing the only thing that he cares about now that his wife is dead. The Norns point out that he constantly says "we must be better" but the only difference is that he just feels sad about killing gods. But by opening up and relying on his friends, something that the old Kratos would never have done, he is able to come to terms with his past and find peace with it. By the end, he is the role model for his son that he wants to be. Even with Freya, he respects her but doesn't bend the knee. He respects her and sees a lot of himself in her, which is why he's so patient with her. To borrow a phrase from If the Emperor Had a Text to Speech Device, he sees her as "mood kindred." He literally became a protagonist of a Greek tragedy, except he lived to redeem himself. If he didn't have this character development and stayed stagnant, I'd wager he'd be in the same category as Duke Nukem when it comes to a character's legacy.
This does segue way into a small disagreement with a point in this video, however. I respectfully disagree with the point about Loki and the infinity stones, but that could be a matter of interpretation on my end. In any other circumstance, he'd have been shoving them into his pocket by the fistful. However, being told that the infinity stones, objects that bend reality to the owner's will are so sought after that galactic wars were started to obtain them, are little more than desk decorations collected from the multiverse? That everything that he went through combined with his universe being one among many? Dude was having an existential crisis as a result of realizing how insignificant he really was in the grand scheme of things. That's actually the theme of Lovecraftian/Cosmic horror.
Dudes have been Nerfed and female characters broken
Im not disney! Im supporting female critics that are non woke! Like and subscribe!
In Return of the Jedi, they made Lando a general. They made Han Solo a general. It's in the dialogue. Both of these characters had a great arc, and Luke wasn't a general but his arc was even more defined. I do not see how or why Han and Lando would not have remained generals (like what, "Oh, I quit now that we won...?" - uh, what?) Being a general is like, something people would maybe continue to do... And Luke was like, yeah, I trained some guys and one was bad, and oh, it's Han and Leia's kid - he's totally evil, and I can feel it, but whatever. What they did to Star Wars is laughably stupid, and it was painful to watch on screen. I don't watch Marvel movies, because they're too stupid. I liked the first Iron Man, and the first Captain America.
We went as a family (all adults now, mixed sexes) to see Dungeons and Dragons. At no point did we think the men were being emasculated. We all enjoyed the movie because it was fun, and the cast all seemed to be enjoying themselves. Hugh Grant was classic Hugh Grant. Bumbling and very British. I think this was a movie made to be fun, interspersed with lots close call action, and a little stupid.
Spot on. The correct answer is to create better stories and characters ourselves.
Bahubali 2: in some cultures, male heroes are still going strong - almost hyperbolically.
There should be a range of male characters just as of female. Not everybody needs to be totally heroic. But some should be.
Men are responsible for going along with this, and not being better heroes ourselves.
I'm sorry I'm man, I'm sorry I'm so hetero, and I'm sorry I'm so stubborn
To be fair, D&D honor among thieves is not the worst offender as far as character mistreatment. Was what the writers said stupid? Yes. Did they still make a very funny film with likeable characters? Also yes. The male characters do actually get decent character arcs.
I grew up with the Mad Max Trilogy and I still love it I was one of the few people that hated "Mad Max Fury Road" because Max was a sidekick in his own movie. It was a Furiosa movie. Now we are getting Furiosa in her own film (no Max). I don't give a rip about Furiosa. I'm sick of it.
It is as simple as using ideology to be allowed to lash out one’s own sexist hatred. What feminism was supposed to fight.
Reject marvel, embrace jojo and become big buff ga-
Chris pine made some millions. So I'm sure not a shit was given to the character being emasculated
That's literally not the point
If ever they make a live action Berserk series or movie Guts better be as he is in the manga and anime.
No movie producer is recreating the eclipse. That would put their job in the line.
And that boys and girls is just one of the reasons that I don't watch Disney, Marvel or Star Wars films anymore.
Just by seeing what yhey intend to do with the new Biancaneve you can understand why everything is breaking down. Woke ideology has corrupted the studio in its whole and now it's tearing it down. Everything they've built, everything we supported. Pulverized. Dust in the wind. I consider myself lucky to have seen these cinematic universes grow year by year, enjoying each film that was coming out day by day. The kids that are now growing with all this ideology put in their products are having a sad time imo.
The only thing I hope is that the other studios will now emerge and give us something really interesting to whatch, something that will make disney lose their egemony and part of their power over the industry. It's right that this happens. ot's deserved. Maybe then we'll restart to see something really valuable come out from these studios and not just banal strong non etero/males characters... just because they're strong and believe in themselves.
I agree with most of these but you also have to understand that Loki was in shock. He had no way of getting out and was basically told that they were useless anyways. Also okoye is one of the highest trained soldiers in one of the most advanced countries in the world so I think she would have been trained a bit better
Excuses, excuses, man.
@@jamesmary8953also, the Dora milaje had no jurisdiction to begin with so her attack basically was committing a crime by interfering in an internationally sanctioned operation
I'm a Democrat and i absolutely hate what they have done to men in entertainment and video games.
It's not often I agree with a view 100%. but this⬆⬆⬆⬆
That scene with Thor was based on an iconic scene with Jean Claude Van Damn
It wasn't a scene. It was a commercial that was a meme a decade ago.
@@Aaron-zt5ee A scene in a commercial.. or my apologies didn't specify commercial
Luke should, logically, have been a mentor to an immature and still-learning Rey. But they wrote Rey as a fully-formed hero, not needing a mentor. She was parentless; Luke might have been written as a surrogate parent in his role as teacher. The second film might have been a rough parallel to Empire Strikes Back; Rey might have experienced actual character growth, and Luke would have purpose. As to Kenobi -- don't get me started on that unfortunate, ill-thought-out, illogical mess. Whenever a little kid is controlling an adult, I want to scream. And putting an iconic character -- the title character -- into this embarrassing situation: what were they thinking?
At the end of the day, it's the same problem as with the (dreadful) Rings of Power: the writing is awful.
Kind of weird how the movies treat that shitty clone of Luke as the real thing.
Why do modern male characters suck? You answered your own question.
I respectfully disagree with your assertion on men always being able to best a woman in a fight if they are both similarly trained. Muscles aren't always a deciding factor in a fight. There's a lot more I could say but I'll leave it at that.
i also love in some of these netflix midevil type shows a woman can beat not only 1 man but a dozen or more on a battlefield. its just amazing.
I also love how a male can defeat a monster, or dragon, or take on a dozen ppl by themselves as well 😂 isn’t that just so unbelievably?
Jon Walker is a hero
The D&D movie is an exception from this complaint, sorry.
John Walker is the true hero
I disagree. Luke was drinking GREEN milk, not blue milk. But all jokes aside, I completely agree with this
While i may agree with you on the situation of the what their doing with the characters of the marvel universe for the most part (she hulk was just awful)..... However the comparison of kenobi and luke...... Yes Reva was way too exaggerated, there's a flaw in the writing of her character, they could have done better for the audience to understand Reva's blind seek of vengeance, than feeling like "angry stupid"..... However, you are too concentrated to see kenobi from your expectation that he should be "the same old", and while understandably disappointed that he is not but again..... You are not getting that the jedi lost the war and are presecuted to no end, men are not forever "in their prime" there comes a time they get to their lowest point, and as disappointing as that maybe but it is something that does happen to a character, vader was probably thinking "did u jst run away from me bitch!"..... But! Kenobi is not the same as he once was, the Jedi order aint the same too, etc etc etc.... that's why there is so much raw emotion on the last scene btw kenobi n vader..... Until Reva just had to screw up in the end (that's disney trying to taint the scene).... As for what they did with Luke..... That was not only intentional horrendously bad writing but completely derailed from what i understand the books said how powerful Luke actually was (which we don't see an iota of it in the movie..... And seems to mysteriously be passed on Rey.... Hmmmm).
Nailed it
DnD movie was good tho. I'm a fan of DnD so I might be a bit biased but I won't say it didn't have flaws. It was still good.
we just need a holywood alternative
Veahh… that‘s not how it works in the real world
We indeed NEED, REAL heroes to believe in. Without it, we have nothing to look up to and aspire to become like.
Great take NerdWord,
Whats the bet if they bring back Iron-man... they will make him an idiot as well for "comedy".
It's not poor writing. At this point, we know all of these are "made bad on purpose." It takes a long time to understand that. No, it's not about money.
Recasted isn't a word.
There are no stupid characters. Just stupid writers:-)
Some of the best analysis on the internet. Thank you.
Facts!
Here is my plan to fix it for you
Its still a bundle of sticks but now They now wear leather muir caps cocked to the side
and they say feminism is about equality😒
i have a conversation we need a new place to do films stop letting hollywood dictate whats a good film start supporting more 3rd world studios and creators and she hollywood u dont need them to create a story
Hear me out, strong female characters can be a good thing if used properly, take the 2022 Batman movie for example. Catwoman/Selina was a strong female character but because she and Bruce worked together and the writers didn’t write Bruce as a wet noodle failure of a man the story ended up being good