1736 Vortex Rocket Stove - The Build
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
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Ah, the old adage "A grinder and paint makes me the welder I ain't."
It takes either a brave or reckless man to show his welding to a few hundred-thousand of his most loved friends.
Wondering if your costume is the right choice for welding an grinding?
lol - not really mate - I know what you are like and the folks here really are friends - mostly they care and try to help - it's very rare for someone to be 'snotty' and if they are they are new and don't stay long lol
yeah it is a bit too flammable lol
@@petrikarkela6800 Wool is awesome for doing anything with fire, sparks, etc. Has a very high ignition temp and tends to self extinguish.
@@petrikarkela6800 Half the fun is the potential to light yourself on fire!
But in all seriousness, there's no/very little concern really when welding flat or horizontal. I hobby weld, and set as much as I can up to weld that way. I've even seen pros welding flat in t-shirts when the exposure time is low
Not only a mad scientist, but a testament to hard work. Well done.
oh wow - cheers mate
I vote yes for the oil burner. I’m working on a mini oil burner based on your copper tee and carbon felt wick.
I will be doing one mate
I just learned that the cheap carbon felt from Walmart is nothing but plastic.
@@mikebond6328there must be some replacement active charcoal felt filters even here in Plastimerica?
@@mikebond6328 I'm thinking Miele vacuum cleaner blow out filters or something
@@mikebond6328 Try ceramic fiber (sold as high heat insulation)
I'm always impressed by how you can do so much rob.
cheers mate
Just a tip - Halfords do a very good black hi-temp paint spray that will protect bare metal from rust. Used it on a car exhaust project over the welds recently.
Yay! 🎉 vortex! Now of course we need a transparent section of chimney!
that would be awesome
@@ThinkingandTinkering once you are done with that, I'll suggest adding heat exchanger fins to stop more of the heat being lost through the chimney (since I sort of expect a transparent section to be less thermally conductive). 😄
Those 4" x 50" quartz glass tubes sold for outdoor patio propane heaters would make a really nice chimney. Not sure how long it would stay clear for though.
@@justinw1765 if placed at the right height it will keep burning clean, I'd expect.
With those quartz tubes we need of course at least two with counter revolving vortexes! 😄
First welder i see on youtube who pulls a electrode to start. I use this method all the time. Also is good to knock off the slag from electrode tip some other not grounded material for better start.
One of the things I ran into with a regular wood stove was chimney height. The taller the chimney the more heat was removed from the exhaust gases. At some point it becomes cold enough that there's no longer enough lift to get it out the top of the chimney. You end up with a cold column and a backdraft which pushes smoke out into your room. Bench testing is a great start for putting a concept together. Practical application is probably going to dictate dampers on the intakes to better regulate flow and draft. As always I love your work!
I think you are spot on mate - cheers
If you insulate a taller chimney, wouldn't that go a long way to avoiding that issue?
Ha, good on ya taking my vortex idea! Next step: make it into a hot tub.
it was a good idea mate - cheers
Very cool project, you've got me hooked! I'd like to see you retrofit a wood heater, and turn it into a rocket heater!!
oh I am thinking of that lol
I really enjoy your builds. You just jump right in and have a go at an idea. Great fun!
You've read my mind Rob, this is why I wondered if you could use tube for the chimney. Get them gases whirlin! I'd also like to an oil burn mod. Thanks pal.
oil burn is on my mind mate - cheers
You will make your welding better if you use your grinder before you weld to clean off the mill scale😁😁 great video
cheers mate
I have to say I asked & you most definitely delivered. This is almost exactly what I was thinking of when I asked for this build in your vortex video. I plan to make a segment with an outside air inlet to make this into a freestanding rocket mass heater. Routing the exhaust through a masonry mass or bell. Thank you for this one.
I am glad it helped mate and I like the mass heater plan - can you give me ah heads up when it is done and maybe make a video?
I like the natural look of your videos. Nothing too slick. Also, encouraging people - your channel is unique in that area.
thank you mate - encouraging folks to try is definitely what I am about
My word Robert. You needed a good wash by the time you’d finished the construction- looked like you’d been down t’pit all day lad!
lol - yeah it did look that way lol
"Round peg in a square hole" =P
Great job with it as usual though, and always thought provoking, fair play.
Excellent video. I've seen the vortex also created with a center pipe inside the chimney that has arms with holes so the air coming into the central pipe and exiting the arms, spins like a lawn sprinkler. Maybe even allows a square chimney?
i've seen one with a rebar cage inside the chimney that looks like it encourages the fire to spin around it
Yes, and it doesn't have to be very tall to accomplish the task, and looks nicer too .
cheers mate
Square 'chimneys' can be good. Our test rig used a square-with-rounded-corners cross-section, gave solid vortices with both offset entry and 'rams-horn' vortex generators, and a clean exhaust too. There is a possibility that square heat risers may improve vortex mixing and more complete combustion, which is the reason for introducing vortex turbulence.
@@hidden6ix742 Damn! I've been thinking about the same thing.
Instead of solid metal, why not metal tube's filled with sand?
Presumably, with sand, not only the sand would retain heat but the air pockets surrounding it.
I am an amature at best in the engineering side of this. I have built a rocket stove for camping once and it worked well. I have recently found a local source for used engine oils and have been researching waste oil burners for heat in my laser shop. How would a rocket stove be adapted as a waste oil burning stove? I understand the concepts of how fire works air, fuel, spark= fire but the oil burning designs i have seen are a verticle draft design. I like the idea of using a heat chamber box over the exhaust and drafting the gases to pull the heat through and have seen many different designs for rocket heaters. In my searching for an oil burner design to build everything has been rudimentary at best in most cases and using scrap from whatever source is available. There is nothing wrong with this but I really like the more finished look and function of a rocket stove type heater.
i built a small foundry once running off used veggie oil that burned in a vortex in a round refractory cylinder. The oil dripped in at the bottom through a pipe that was offset going into the cylinder and it had an adjustable blower forced air coming in with it. The offset inlet with forced air pushed the flame around the cylinder making the vortex and my crucible was in the center of the vortex with the flames swirling around it. I had to start it with propane to get the oil going and then the propane was shut off and just oil burning an extremely hot orange flame after fiddling with the oil feed and air ratio. Fun project
it sounds like a fun project mate
Hi Mr Chuckle, brilliant idea, I weld in 3 different flavours, if you are beging to learn welding you want to use scrap metal and practice doing short lines of weld, then do longer ones, then practice short lines on 2 pieces of metal laid flat.... Then practice welding 2 pieces of metal at 90% right angles and so on, remember the bigger piece of the two pieces wil need the rod point slightly more towards it as it's gonna pull more of the heat ;)
I just received my carbon felt and a little learning curve I had to remember to fluff it out so it has volume and once I did that I stuck it in a $25 tea candle hen that goes for $100 so I got that for 75% off pretty cool and it's been burning there now for at least a half hour and the flame is not producing any soot yeah that's priceless to have an everlasting WIC thank you for that tremendously and all your expertise that I've been listening to and gleaning from thanks for being out there for sure
wow - thank you for taking the time to report that mate - awesome job
"Vortex Tube" Sounds like a part of the Hadron Collider. Or a necessary part of a time travel machine.
Guy in the background is incredibly excited about your latest creation. 🤣
lol
There's a much easier way to create a vortex. At the elbow between the riser and burn chamber, coming out of the burn chamber, place a guide which forces (guides) the air/fuel around the riser on one side. The air will spin around the riser stack and I've seen it done so it's a sure bet and easy.
Even easier, cut the bottom of the riser vertically then at the height of the burn chamber cut it horizontally like a flap, then curl it at a smaller diameter so it guides the air in a circle around the riser.
When you see the effect this device rob knocked up has on the small flame there is clearly more to this than your suggestion I suspect it’s to do with the air intake
@@johnmcfadden9336 yeah it's about the draft getting pulled in and up.
The extra air is what gets the exhaust gas burning.
The vortex gets a better mix going.
TY
I'm pretty open to different ways of doing things. Honestly assuming the goal here is to do a more complete burn, and simplicity. I like Rob's adding air ATM the base of the riser. I also like the Aussies method of vortex mostly because it's easy but feel free to build to your preference. I'll post the link. My final design will incorporate many elements from many different sources but I'm doing or planning on incorporating mass to store heat. But tbh it's not high on my list. ua-cam.com/video/UBIBW1z2gks/v-deo.html
GL guys!
Sir Murray-Smith. Sounds right to me. Where's the Queen Mum when we really need her? I swear a few minutes with the man on UA-cam can totally reset one's day. It's like a pep-talk even though the subject is vortex rocket stoves. Cheers, Y'all!
Let’s hope that Sir Robert never grows up and stops having fun. A man after my own 71yo heart! 🤣🤣🤣👍👏👏👏👏👏
lol - cheers mate
Grinder and paint makes me the welder I ain’t!
lol - for sure
Someone's having fun 😂 I'll be able to cut these sections true now as just picked up a horizontal band saw, well the 90 cuts anyhow, I'm not sure it'll manage a 45 on box that size, nice initial results on that vortex though 👍
cheers mate - and wow - I am pretty envious right now lol
Excelant, Rocketing right along we are🚀
For the shots down the chimney, use a mirror on a selfie stick if needed.
I remember welding in high school. I cheated. I steadied my hand on a rail and glided my arms over while I struck an arc for the weld in a straight line and at about the same distance the whole way along the weld. It looked smooth. Having a way to steady my hand worked.
nice tip mate - cheers
I’m loving it2. A vortex riser fantastic! Dam I have to do that 2
go for it mate - and fancy doing a quick vid to let me know how you got on?
Brilliant work 👍 5:55 if you want a good shot down a chimney, fix a mirror to an arm on a tripod and focus on that 😉👍
nie mate - cheers
G'day Rob, it seems like the size of your air inlet/guides on the chimney might be a little big. Too much air coming in the sides of the chimney might reduce the amount of air being pulled past the fire and therefore slowing the burn. Perhaps a shorter section of vortex inducing slots, (maybe only 3.5cm tall), with another piece of pipe on the top for the draw.
nice suggestions mate - cheers
Loving the build and actually all of the rocket stove vids. I did some experements with vortex burners in my youth. It was a long time ago now but the setup was a fixed amout of fuel to see if it would get through it quicker therefor burning hotter than using somthing akin to a Argand lamp. Turned out I could not get it to go faster/hotter using a vortex. My theory being that the fuel and air where seperated by the vortex putting less air in contact with the fuel. Really interested in what your experimentations yeild. I never thought to put a flue on it after the vortex so im wondering if this might mix it up with the transitions. Sorry for the wishy washy I think/I recall just wanted to say great job and now i want to build one using a vortex for air intake and some mixing baffles. Time to get skip diving again :D
mmm - I have found the opposite mate it burns the fuel faster and it is very noticeably hotter - it might well be the flue
I did notice the 'liberal use of the angle grind' Rob.
I was looking to see how neat those welds were :)
I think you are having way too much fun in life.
Love your posts.
Love the stove. Thanks for the video
awesome - cheers
If you want to increase the vortex make the chimney an expansion chamber. Any increase in the burn dynamics will obviously also increase the fuel consumption.
Can you have these inside without suffocating you with carbon monoxide or whatever?
@@Vile_Entity_3545 if they have a chimney. A rocket stove needs to be attended to because of the small firebox. A lot of them are run through a heat sink so it stays warm after you have a fire, or for cooking. There are not many things you can have without a chimney. There are those propane heaters but it smells a little and gives off a lot of water vapor. Kerosene heaters work too but do smell. Pellet stoves have a small vent that just goes straight out the wall. If you don’t need a lot of heat those candles under a flower pot give off some heat but any open flame burns off oxygen in the room.
cheers mate
@@D-B-Cooper nice 👍
Does the direction of the Vortex matter? Clockwise vs counterclockwise. Happy Beer:30! 🐺
nah - I don't think so mate
Dear Robert, I enjoy your channel very much. I do have concern. I have been an industrial safety professional for 32 years. Please use a proper respirator(a HEPA filter like 3M brand) while cutting or welding metals. The heat of cutting metals causes very harmful metal particles to be atomized into the atmosphere. These particles are small enough to be breathed into the lungs (less than 10 microns in diameter). They are not dissolved by the body but causes lesions in the lungs. Also in every box of welding rods you will find a "Material Safety Data Sheet" that explains the hazards related to them. Best Wishes and Please Be Safe!
❤️l really appreciate your research
Love your works
Have a canvas rag wick in a tin
Giving me comfort, for a few minutes, burning oil
working in recycling compression
Under cover of large open sided barn
Thank you
Avid
Thame Oxon
Kinda funny how you get even sootier each shot 😂
a lot of grinding lololol
I love the smell of scorched eyebrow in the morning… it smells like vortex!
Fascinating … interested in how you came up with the optimum spec for the vortex… wondering what the science is?
I was wondering if it work if it was only like one third or even a quarter of the length it just seems to me that it might be letting in too much air
I did it in video 1 - and it is certainly not optimum just a good approximation
oh nice, id like to see one with the used motor oil as we have lots of it here, and no use except painting our fences! thanks agian
Great suggestion!
Hey Robert...!! Be careful with flamable stuff arround when welding ;-)
Robert there is a saying on the Welding channels,"Grinder and paint makes me the welder I ain't" 🙂 It's certainly true for my welds but as long as it is functional I really don't care!
lol - same here!
You can use Motorcycle chain (part of) instead of the door hinges.
I like that mate - nice tip
Ask and it shall appear. LOL I was just thinking about how adding a vortex generator would make a Rocket Stove work. And presto you've made a video about it.
lol - anything to help mate you know me lol
it looks like interesting elements that could be sized+located for even more efficiency.
I bet it would work ALMOST as well if you put the same fins in the square-section tubing, for a simpler build.
yes - I'll bet it would
I wonder how much power you could get by putting a metal turbine inside the vortex? You could position the blades parallel to the vortex inlets, and curve them out to maximize surface area. I’d also suggest experimenting with a more corkscrew pattern for the blades. Good luck, love the content!
I am interested in the idea of a hot air turbine. It could even run off to the side it would generate electricity. I suppose designs and efficencies for crude models are not so great but still work. Books tell me stirling and the better steam engine work well too..
cheers mate
Think how great that'd look with a quartz tube chimney.
it would look awesome
Brilliant man love watching the videos ❤️👀👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
That’s brilliant!!!! 👍👏
cheers mate
Awesome 🎉
cheers mate
I had a weird thought pop into my head whilst watching this and eating my dinner: Does a clockwise/anticlockwise vortex make any difference to the flame height?
My thoughts were on water down a sink how it naturally flows one way or the other depending on where you are in the world and I wondered if that principle effected flames? I may be completely wrong in thinking this but i thought it would be interesting
I would think not mate
Hi Rob could you make a video of using the rocket stove to heat a water tank please but a good size water tank that could link up to a radiator.. love the channel and the main Man yourself
A half vortex :
vortex also compress,
as those for cars with blades.
And need then venturi,
and maybe 'exploder", a spark plug for car, as a point heat concentration.
see CNC vortex cooler.
Your is accelerator, 'turbinator".
I would like to see it converted into an oil burner also if you don't mind, A great way to get some free heat and to dispose of the old oil, A Win Win in my books.
easy enough jo mate and it was on my mind to do it
You can use a cheap Mirror at an angle to view down the chimney.
awesome idea mate - curses why didn't I think of that - lol - cheers mate
4.45 - i'm still smiling 😁 - i think i might have a man crush 🤣😉👍
lololol
use a mirror at 45 deg, over in the heat, so your camera is safe. same way you record a projectile impact
nice one mate - thanks for the suggestion - it will also save my eyebrows!
Good evening Mr. Robert!
The only rocket stove left for you to try is the one which has a glass flue! I've seen some German lads making them, and they all have a vortex inside. Basically, when I think of it, it is a direct implementation of the mantlet effect you tried several videos ago, where the additional oxygen eliminated soot and smoke. I presume the glass must be some boron ceramic, expensive as hell.
Do you think you could do some work on the see-through flues, but of homemade produce? A stainless mesh you have lying around? Would it let smoke out or would it contain it?
Anyway, great and useful work, as always! :)
yep - I would love bit of glass!
Outdoor patio propane heaters often use a 4" x 50" quartz glass tube. Quartz glass is a bit more expensive, but handles heat and heating to cooling cycles way better than soda glass, but physically is more fragile (more brittle, don't knock into it, drop it, etc). In the US at least, you can get these for around 65 or so dollars.
@@justinw1765 I will try to get a small segment for my flue in the future. I honestly don't understand why it is not a widespread thing, even small segments.
This might be a weird question but what would be a benefit of doing a vortex then simply going with the standard rocket stove? On the top of my head I can think it would allow more oxygen in because of area of low and high pressure
you are going to find folks arguing about the one mate - but I would say the only real difference is the vortex burns hotter and faster
yeah! was looking forward to this one! thanks
awesome mate
Love it, and would like to see an oil burner version
curses - you are ahead of me lol - coming soon mate
Great video again
Cheers from London 👍🏴🇬🇧
cheers mate
Grinders and paint turn you into the welder that you ain't
Cool, do you think insulating the base might help increase the vortex? Can't wait to see the oil burner and pellet burner add ons.
Insulating the base is likely to lead to the stove being destroyed.
Excess oxygen running through steel pipes at around 1000C will turn the pipes into slag in a very short time.
Don't insulate small metal rocket stoves! Also, keep them small. If you want to make them bigger or insulate them better (yes to both by the way), then make them of refractory materials.
I am looking forward to the oil burner conversion too mate - should be fun
if you hold a mirror above the stove at 45deg, you can see down the vortex tube without burning your eyes/camera
or just piece of glass in front of camera
cheers mate
Thanks Rob. I'm wondering what the differences - and benefits - are between the vortex stove and the rocket stove with holes on the bottom of the funnel?
the vortex seems to burn hotter and faster mate
Hmmm. Would using radially drilled holes give a similar result without having to do that much cutting and welding ?
Maybe adding small straight pipes into the holes to direct the flow towards the outer wall.
Maybe even drilling 90° holes but adding a 90° angle (plumbing fitting) on the inside to point along the inner wall and a bit up ?
(edit: did not see all previous videos so might be impractical)
I don't know - but it's a great idea - fancy giving it a go and letting me know how you get on?
Great work! love it. You have great performance burning fuel. I wonder if you could salvage a heat exchanger and strap that on.
I really do like that mate
All that extra work on a design that works well .What are the advantages of the vortex?
it burns hotter and faster mate
A wood driven rocket stove/heater with an oil burner that can use all oils and desil
done it already check out the rocket stove playlist - cheers
If you can’t weld pretty it doesn’t matter if you have a grinder
A simple trip wire at the top of the horizontal pipe will create a vortex as well. It's far simpler, easier to clean and does the job quite well.
Please explain trip wire
@@justtinkering6713
Ah, sorry. Yes.
It's a small protrusion at the top of the burn tunnel, shaped like a ramp that drops off to a bluff body (a ramp to a flat spot or drop off). This protrusion is arrow shaped with the point of the arrow towards the riser (what keeps being called a chimney here).
The idea was taken from aircraft design. I now build them into all of my rocket stoves. They're simple and effective and do the job without the drawbacks that you get with metal fins or some other object in the flow path.
cheers mate
@@SundogbuildersNet Thanks for the trip wire explanation , pretty cool.
Looks good but it looks a bit tall for my pan or billy!
It occurs to me that you might be able to cut some vanes into your square tube chimney, push them in a bit, and save some cutting and welding.
good idea - fancy giving it a go and seeing what you come up with - oh nd do let me know lol - cheers mate
Love it!
cheers mate
Have a look at the Rosebud Grates for Live Steam Locomotives. Might inspire to next incarnation of the rocket stove.
nice pointer - cheers mate
I've been considering getting a rocket stove for some time now.
My biggest concern is build up of ashes.
None have a easy way to remove ashes without the rocket stove cooling down first.
Does the vortex remove the ashes?
That's a great name, not gonnal lie.
cheers lol
I don't know if you have seen it but there are a couple people (mostly australia) that are playing with adding self running but not priming, turbos to a wood burner, basically making a self driven wood burner, even getting enough thrust to push a boat around. However I was curious about the efficiency of burning wood as he had the entire thing glowing and burning through in places with just a fixed amount of wood. What are your thoughts on the rocket stove vs I suppose it would be called a turbine stove or turbo stove? More complicated yes, but what of heating/energy conversion thoughts?
I will have to have a look into them mate and get back to you on that one
On the welding front, do yourself a favor and buy a cheap mig welder, much more viable to the home welder and similar in price.
cheers mate nice advice - it really is - but I am good where I am
Thanks, could you do some Tesla stuff for energy, Tesla turbine generator? As we have an energy crisis 🧐
I would love to see you redesign the water heater rocket stove. The previous one (with a gas bottle) I believe will make the water rusty. Can you do an improved design with a copper coil or something?
yes Mae I can and will do
Dr lectors turbocharged rocket stoves just kidding I 💕 you Robert
lol - all that is needed is a nice bottle of chianti lol
How do you manage the ash over a long burn period? And do you think it could be modified to use compressed wood pellets from a hopper?
there is hardly any ash but good question - do you ave any suggestions? and yes pellets would be fine
Maybe a dumb question... But is there anything like a Coriolis effect with an air/fire vortex'? I'm just curious if the vortex might be affected for better or worse if it's spinning clockwise or counterclockwise depending upon hemisphere.
So it's cool and all I was thinking though with the ones where they put the 55 gallon drum on the outside of that riser if you had it with those gaps in there like that if you put pipes in the drum leading to those openings so that it could suck fresh air from outside of the drum into there but could also suck some of the smoke that might be coming down back into it to burn you know again would that improve the efficiency at all or the heat generated or would it just be a waste of time or would it do nothing I don't know interesting though cool to see
I don't know either mate - but I agree it would be really interesting to try it and see
Hi Robert, have you tried a drip feed waste oil rocket stove but also adding in drip fed water? Many years ago I got these plans for an oil burner where they also used water and it basically turbo charge the oil burning.
I have done an oil burner mate it's on the rocket stove playlist - but I have never added water - that's on my to do list lol
well done welding satisfied your burning ambition?
lolol - indeed it does lol
También irradia más con aletas tipo radiador de disipadores de discos duros ....en el caño de salida
Gracias mi amigo
Just got on to your channel Rob .And very interested in your rocket stove . I have seen only two companies that make them one in Bulgaria Gamera.And one in USA liberator I wold be interested if no of anyone who makes one in the UK . I am thinking of installing one in my home . cheers and keep the video,s coming .
I am not sure they do mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering Thank you for your reply.i AM thinking of installing a Gamera tiny 3 rocket stove .Do you think I will be able to get enough air flow inside my house to make it work . efficient enough ..keep the video,s coming 👍
What if someone were to use the hotside of a turbocharge housing to generate the vortex?
How about insulating the burn chamber now to really get that vapourization going !?
nice one
Do you ever get something wrong by using different measuring systems.
Around 2011 or so there was a real big interest in rocket stoves there was even a web site started, several guys came up with a way to burn pellets and several were working on a way to make them controllable using 02 sensors. Then it seemed like everyone lost interest and they all disappeared
nope - and I didn't know about that - cheers mate
What are the advantages to having a vortex? I can see that this design is introducing more air at the right place and thoroughly mixing the gases. Are there other advantages, besides it looks cool which is good enough really.
The vortex is designed to improve the burn to get the maximum amount of heat from the fuel.
it certainly burns hotter - but also faster - so I don't really know tbh