Since this point comes up fairly often when discussing H&K products and the company in general: H&K didn't suddenly fancy a massive price hike in the 70s just for the hell of it. Between 1970 and 1980 (roughly speaking), the German Mark more than doubled in value against the US Dollar. So for H&K to make the same amount of money back in Germany, they had to ask twice the price in the US. I never figured out why H&K didn't start manufacturing in the US, but they didn't hugely increase their prices just because they felt like it, many Americans seem to be under that impression.
They can't just set up a factory in the USA due to German laws. The German government wants to keep control over arms exports. Therefore they have to apply for a permission first, which can be difficult.
Only for countries in a war or that take part in a conflict involving weapons. Also to mention at the high pricetag, is taxes, shipping, toll (american and german).
the same thing happened to my fathers business of restored ancient furniture. back before the euro was introduced he made a decent living buying old furniture, restoring it and then exporting it to the united states. the euro, being roughly double in value compared to the mark at the time, forced him out of business.
Also, the US political climate wasn’t exactly conducive to having an international firearms manufacturer set up a new factory in the US, unless you had a “sponsor” or “patron” highly placed in something like the US Senate. Possibly if they had been willing to set up a factory in Arkansas, it might have been different.
Agreed. This is most likely especially if you are a native speaker this fits the typical way of German thinking. Of course I was actually born in Canada to two German natives, so my experiences are far from a typical German upbringing.
My mother was a religious nut and got herself an exemption to travel to some Mennonite commune and my father was an exceptional mathematics professor. They traveled separately and he was assigned to a military academy and obviously watched and my mother simply escaped the religious extremists by walking away. (Most Mennonites are fine upstanding individuals but they way you said it these guys were into multiple wives and swapping as well as kid screwing so definitely not for her).
But you, you have me at a loss. You know my name but who are you? Just another American who saw too many movies as a child? Another orphan of a bankrupt culture who thinks he's John Wayne? Rambo? Marshall Dillon?
As someone with short thumbs, I am a big fan of the mag release lever. While the possibility of releasing a mag on holstering is real, that issue (as well as so many others) is essentially eliminated by the use of the proper holster.
P320 hate much? Really it performed just as well and the safety issues have been worked out. In no way is it mediocre. It’s just as good as any of the modern polymer striker Fired guns, it just doesn’t say glock on it
@@randompanda876 I've shot the M17 a few times at the range I go to and it's a super smooth and enjoyable pistol to shoot. I own the P320 Compact and had to send mine in for the dropsafe upgrade due to it going off in my house.
I had a P7 squeeze cocker that came in a very nice hardwood presentation case years ago. It came with two barrels, one 9x19 and another that I want to say was .32, but I dont really recall. It was the first handgun I had that was pinfire with only passive safeties. I paid a lot for it but only shot it one time. I just didn't like it except for the cool factor. It came up missing some years later when I was looking for it after seeing how much it was worth.
Funny to see the ZIP code stamped on the gun. Don't think i have ever seen one on a gun, and the city is often abbreviated, as here. I always liked the P7 since it is fully ambidextrous and has good ergonomics. Never got to fire one, but i did handle and fieldstrip them in the gun shop where i worked from '93-95. Great video as always. Thank you
I'd like it if multiplayer games had skins for weapons that was more like having a P-7 with an M-13 or XM-9 skin instead of pink and gold tigerstripe. You could get differently marked P-226's for example that are all just cosmetic differences for us nerds with no performance changes.
Author Ian V. Hogg tells a different version about H&K VP-70 on US Army tests. The supplied ammo caused more malfunctions in some guns. But I had a VP-70 by four years. It feed and fired flawlessly any kind of ammo.
I can see that release having some advantages. By being a level you can't accidentally squeeze with your hand enough to engage it. It also doesn't have the issue of some reversible mag releases where your hand can block the opposite side and make it hard to use.
I really enjoy shooting the P7M8. The P7 series is pretty mechanically complex. I think it probably has far more parts in it than a Walther PP series pistol. It's a very cool design but way overkill for something like military use. The Beretta 92 series by contrast is fairly simple and easy to work on. It's also fun to shoot, but the fat grip kills the ergonomics in my hands. The P7 probably has the nicest ergonomics of any pistol I've handled.
I had always thought as a federal undercover it would have been the obvious choice. Size, capacity, reliability, accuracy etc... it just ticks all the boxes. Wish H&K would start production again!!
To be honest, I still stand by the final decision that the Beretta was the way to go, and not just because it was cheaper. Just imagine how bad a P7 mechanism would stand the abuse and neglect that the U.S. military would have wrought on it. I still say that the only reason they 'needed' a new pistol (for the M17 trials or lack thereof) is because they were too cheap and lazy to do the proper maintenance and source proper replacement parts for the Berettas. After all, much of the focus has shifted away from small arms and their upkeep to big fancy artillery and missiles.
Actually the price point didn't matter at all in the P7 not having been selected in the XM9 program. The P7A13 didn't even reach the cost comparison phase of the trial. It was eliminated because it fared atrociously in the reliability tests. The 92F was the only handgun that passed those tests. The minimum threshold had to be lowered for the SIG P226 top pass them, since the Army wanted to have at least two handguns to compete on price point.
Personally, I never had any complaints with any of the M9's I was fired in the Army. While it's true that I nearly always was issued an M16, still, the M9's I used and qualified on were all perfectly acceptably accurate (particularly the ones I used in the Oregon National Guard that had the Crimson Trace Lasergrips installed... I wonder if that was a "donation" due to them being a local company), and I never once had one that failed to go "bang" then eject the empty and cycle and load another round. A bit large and heavy for a pistol, perhaps, but what do you expect from a service pistol.
If they could make this again I would want a P7 in 5.7x28 compensated to redirect the gases out of the line of sight. An optic compatible would make really make this stellar flat shooting pistol. HK is probably secretly thanking God I don't work for them.
Quality and cost....fact...the Beretta won the trials based on the cost of its magazines, Beretta and sig both produced satisfactory guns, but the Beretta supplemental magazines required to be provided for each weapon were cheaper, so Beretta won the contract.
In the mid 1980's the US was PO'ed at Germany for some reason and took measures to jack up the prices of German goods by fucking with monetary policies. The price of Zeiss West optics also went through the roof (I needed an 8x30 monocular for it's twilight capability which the standard Tasco and Selsi Japanese imports did not have since they were 8x20 or 25. Also the Japanise units had a dog-leg shape and the Zeiss were inline and easier to carry). So it looks like we screwed ourselves out of a fairly decent gun
I'm pretty sure H&Ks $500 commercial price tag was just that. The commercial price tag. They would've made the price competitive for the military. Case and point on the commercial market the sig p320 which was adopted as the M17 costs about $500+ but the army pays $176 for each. Likewise just as the M9 was $178 for the army, I'm pretty that wasn't commercial price
HK really should look into putting these back into production, I keep coming across the p7 all across the internet with nothing but rave reviews, perhaps a version without the grip safety, or at least one similar to a 1911 for the simpler folk. edit: I'm not saying remove the grip system, its part of what made the gun good in the first place, just saying sell a version without it alongside it
Not a good design for a military pistol, too many areas dirt mud and sand can enter, but these are superb quality and p7 8 are very collectible, these guns get very hot after a box or two...
Looks to be a USP with a rail-mounted compensator/weight, with an extension up over the slide for sight mounting. I got to visit the gray room a couple years ago, but I don't remember seeing that one.
Please someone explain why US military instead of common words such as pistol or gun come up with things like "modern personal one hand self defence system for close range" MPOHDSFCR or something similar ? HMMWV is typical example instead of all terrain car.
@@ROSSD_ I personally would love a delayed blowback in .32 The softness of that cartridge in a semi locked action would make for a damn pleasant and controllable carry piece. Plus, I really think people ought to reevaluate their stance on .32, it's a capable round.
@@thomash4578 More mass and a light bullet are definitely going to be manageable. Of course that may leave something to be desired with external and terminal ballistics, but I subscribe more to how a gun handles for me than most other aspects of a firearm.
Easily one of the most impressive pistol designs to come out in the last 50 years. Too bad it was priced beyond what H&K could offer it for. Kinda makes you wonder what lengths gun manufacturers go through to win military trials. Sometimes it smells a little fishy...
@@neutronalchemist3241 - I didn't know that. It's a complex little pistol for sure. Dropping it in a bucket of muck obviously was a bit too much for it! :)
Tnx for the informative video as always. I have a question though. I know this might be a stupid question but what is that hook loop at the bottom and just behind the pistol grip? I have seen such hook on many other pistols and revolvers, mostly from the 50's and 60's.
The fact that m92 outmatched P7 and P226 in favour of those armchair generals Because it was waaaaaaay cheeper made me hate this cheap chicken for a extended period of time :(
It's weird hear than the U.S.Army don't adopt the HKP7 for considering it expensive and other countries like Greece(HKP7M8) and Mexico(HKP7M13S) adopted an manufactured their own.
The price point didn't matter at all in the P7 not having been selected in the XM9 program. The P7A13 didn't even reach the cost comparison phase of the trial. It was eliminated because it fared atrociously in the reliability tests.
@DOUG HEINS For the record, I've always assumed those "$800 toilet seats" were for specific size/shape/weight/performance requirements being fitted into various vehicles or whatever, where they're custom ordered and fabbed to a particular and demanding spec and there's a run of perhaps only a few hundred or possibly at most thousands made. If you don't make enough to enjoy economy of scale, don't be surprised when your exceptionally exactingly crafted item costs orders of magnitude more than a "similar" item that to the uninitiated should "work just as well" but absolutely is unsuitable for the intended application.
@DOUG HEINS The Gepard certainly would have been better than the various 20mm Vulcan systems we got saddled with instead. Heck, it might have even remained in service to this day.
@DOUG HEINS Yes, a ranging-only radar or optical-only targeting isn't the best for fast and low engagement results. But then also, the 20mm suffers from a relatively low engagement ceiling compared to the 35mm or 40mm as well. Plus, of course, the substantially smaller warhead charge per shell.
P7s really are not THAT great as a combat pistol. They get hot, REALLY HOT, 4 magazines in a P7 or three magazine fulls through an M13 will make the pistol hot enough to melt a nylon holster and char a leather holster as well as burn the shooters hand and fingers. I can go on but you get the idea.
I think the retort would be that 4 magazines is a lot to go through with a pistol. It depends on what kind of combat you are referring to. For the military, it is probably not acceptable.
@@45calibermedic The P7 performed perfectly fine for the German Police issued the pistol but facing facts, long drawn out gunfights were not the norm in Germany at the time the guns were being issued.
@@onmilo Certainly, and they still aren't. Even in a military context, such usage isn't likely, in which case there's room to consider the advantages of the P7 design.
@@45calibermedic I owned a P7 for many years, and a P6 and a P5 and a P1, they are ALL obsolete designs. The newest Glock G43X and G48 have pushed to designs clear off the playing field in THIS, The Modern World.
@@45calibermedic There are NO advantages to the P7 series handguns in this, the modern world. It is a now obsolete design more in place as a curiosity collectible. It will remain popular as such in the same way as the Colt Single Action Army has endured.
...and the oddest ad to pair with a video goes to 3 minute metabolicfactor.com/p.mb/lander with their 'Burn Fat Faster' Pills for Menopausal Women on 05AUG19. Made the the 3:30 minute ad for drsquatch.com soap look normal in comparison. Gun Jesus, you damn well be seeing a Google Ad Check in the till at the end of this month!
AstrraTV Everybody, uncluding the test jury, said that the P7 is, by a large margin, the best submitted design of round 3 of the XM9 trails. Read it up. Most of the gun nerds all around the globe consider the p7 as one, if not the, best handgun ever made. The 92 is okay but medicore at best.
@@haviiithelegogunner907 What? Actually the price point didn't matter at all in the P7 not having been selected in the XM9 program. The P7A13 didn't even reach the cost comparison phase of the trial. It was eliminated because it fared ATROCIOUSLY in the reliability tests. The 92F was the only handgun that passed those tests. The minimum threshold had to be lowered for the SIG P226, the second best, to pass them, since the Army wanted to have at least two handguns to compete on price point.
@@haviiithelegogunner907 I'm sorry to ruin the fairy tale you like to tell, but it's in an official document. The P7A13 tests had been "Terminated by the Army on September 18, 1984, for falling reliability and corrosion resistance requirements". In the 1984 trials the P7A13 had a failure every 158 rounds fired, the worst of any entrants (comparison Colt 1911 included, the second worst with a failure every 162 rounds) and a resistance to salt water corrosion of 86%, again the worst of any entrants. See NSIAD-86-122.
True the Germans lost both wars, but they’re recovery is amazing. After WW1, Germany had to pay the Allies 132 Billion Gold marks and somehow still had money for the second war, even though living conditions were terrible. Then after they lost that one, they came back and have the fourth largest economy. Japan is 3rd on the list which I find funny considering they also lost the Second World War.
Since this point comes up fairly often when discussing H&K products and the company in general:
H&K didn't suddenly fancy a massive price hike in the 70s just for the hell of it. Between 1970 and 1980 (roughly speaking), the German Mark more than doubled in value against the US Dollar. So for H&K to make the same amount of money back in Germany, they had to ask twice the price in the US. I never figured out why H&K didn't start manufacturing in the US, but they didn't hugely increase their prices just because they felt like it, many Americans seem to be under that impression.
The exchange rate,
Was so often over looked.
Had much to do with the price of H&K 91 and 93....
They can't just set up a factory in the USA due to German laws.
The German government wants to keep control over arms exports.
Therefore they have to apply for a permission first, which can be difficult.
Only for countries in a war or that take part in a conflict involving weapons.
Also to mention at the high pricetag, is taxes, shipping, toll (american and german).
the same thing happened to my fathers business of restored ancient furniture.
back before the euro was introduced he made a decent living buying old furniture, restoring it and then exporting it to the united states.
the euro, being roughly double in value compared to the mark at the time, forced him out of business.
Also, the US political climate wasn’t exactly conducive to having an international firearms manufacturer set up a new factory in the US, unless you had a “sponsor” or “patron” highly placed in something like the US Senate. Possibly if they had been willing to set up a factory in Arkansas, it might have been different.
The "A" in "A 13" is more likely to be something like "Ausführung", meaning version, rather than army. Nice video as always
Am German and approve of this message
Ja, das Stimmt
@@dthewave9466 I personally recognize that as a World of Tanks player, and each German Tank's numerous variations.
Agreed. This is most likely especially if you are a native speaker this fits the typical way of German thinking. Of course I was actually born in Canada to two German natives, so my experiences are far from a typical German upbringing.
My mother was a religious nut and got herself an exemption to travel to some Mennonite commune and my father was an exceptional mathematics professor. They traveled separately and he was assigned to a military academy and obviously watched and my mother simply escaped the religious extremists by walking away. (Most Mennonites are fine upstanding individuals but they way you said it these guys were into multiple wives and swapping as well as kid screwing so definitely not for her).
Every single video to come out of the grey room is pure gold!
The p7 series has been on my list to obtain since the horrible incident at Nakatomi plaza. One day I'll have one.
I'm sure you are speaking of that reckless chauffeur scratching the stretchlimo when he crashed through the basement garage rolling gates? :D
@@Ugly_German_Truths idk some some zombie started swing around a steyr aug.
Naw, he's talking about that crazy cop driving his car in reverse over an embankment
P7 is such a lovely gun. Really comfortable, intuitive, and accurate. You actually do get what you pay for sometimes.
Nice suit. John Phillips, London. I have two myself. Rumor has it Arafat buys his there.
Who am I talking to?
But you, you have me at a loss. You know my name but who are you? Just another American who saw too many movies as a child? Another orphan of a bankrupt culture who thinks he's John Wayne? Rambo? Marshall Dillon?
Shoot the glass!
I must have missed 60 minutes. What are you saying?
Who said we were terrorists?
I'd love see a GSH-18 on here!
$499 33 years ago....even gun jesus did proclaim "wtaf are u doing oh sons of heckler and koch"
As someone with short thumbs, I am a big fan of the mag release lever. While the possibility of releasing a mag on holstering is real, that issue (as well as so many others) is essentially eliminated by the use of the proper holster.
I also have short thumbs. I have reversed the mag releases on both of my M&Ps and use my trigger finger to drop the magazines.
Three rounds of trials? Had no one figured out the "submit a mediocre, unsafe design for below cost" strategy yet?
P320 hate much? Really it performed just as well and the safety issues have been worked out. In no way is it mediocre. It’s just as good as any of the modern polymer striker Fired guns, it just doesn’t say glock on it
@@randompanda876 I've shot the M17 a few times at the range I go to and it's a super smooth and enjoyable pistol to shoot. I own the P320 Compact and had to send mine in for the dropsafe upgrade due to it going off in my house.
@@GunRunnersTrainingCo I sent mine in too. I still find it amusing they called it a "voluntary upgrade" instead of "recall."
@@kaiiorg Yeah the lack of responsibility is funny..
@@randompanda876 get butt hurt much?
Gun Jesus once again preaches from the Gray Temple. Amen! 👍
@@Xanatos712 Lol.
Hallelujah, brothers and sisters! :P
Tell it!!
Apon seeing their creation, HK then breathed 13 rounds of 9mm life into it, and it was good.
The zip code on the gun is a very precious and important information to put on it😂😂😂
I had a P7 squeeze cocker that came in a very nice hardwood presentation case years ago. It came with two barrels, one 9x19 and another that I want to say was .32, but I dont really recall. It was the first handgun I had that was pinfire with only passive safeties. I paid a lot for it but only shot it one time. I just didn't like it except for the cool factor. It came up missing some years later when I was looking for it after seeing how much it was worth.
another truly forgotten weapon. thanks ian!
Funny to see the ZIP code stamped on the gun. Don't think i have ever seen one on a gun, and the city is often abbreviated, as here. I always liked the P7 since it is fully ambidextrous and has good ergonomics. Never got to fire one, but i did handle and fieldstrip them in the gun shop where i worked from '93-95. Great video as always. Thank you
I'd like it if multiplayer games had skins for weapons that was more like having a P-7 with an M-13 or XM-9 skin instead of pink and gold tigerstripe. You could get differently marked P-226's for example that are all just cosmetic differences for us nerds with no performance changes.
But kids want the "kewl" flashy "camos", that glow in the dark and shit. And spend their parents' money on them.
Thank you , Ian .
Dang i love this channel. All the details i need to know. No bs.
Author Ian V. Hogg tells a different version about H&K VP-70 on US Army tests. The supplied ammo caused more malfunctions in some guns.
But I had a VP-70 by four years. It feed and fired flawlessly any kind of ammo.
That g36 was staring at me the whole time 🤩
I've always wanted one of these... I really really really want one
I can see that release having some advantages. By being a level you can't accidentally squeeze with your hand enough to engage it. It also doesn't have the issue of some reversible mag releases where your hand can block the opposite side and make it hard to use.
I'm liking the hk series. Lots of cool stuff I haven't heard of before!
This was fascinating. Learned some new things.
I really want a P7 M13. Some day.
Ian, I would love for you to do a video on the proudly named “YEET Cannon” from Hi-Point Firearms 😂😂😂
he has to do it and he has to meme hard in the video or it doesn't count.
Jack Vernian exactly my man, exactly.
Patience, it won't be long before it's forgotten.
Lemme just YEET it into the Forgotten universe real quick... *YEEEEEEEEEEEEEET*
I am apart of that movement that succeeding in getting our YEET CANNON YC9
It would nice if you could get the gsh -18 for review
It’s “The Gun Jesus “ 😲😊 Richard Marchinko carries a HK P7 in his Rouge Warrior book series...love your vids they make me smile.
Very interesting H&K pistol Ian.
The grooves on the grips are really 80s, damn. How come we don't see that aesthetic anymore?
The last pistol I know of that had them was the Ruger P97.
Great video. Well explained.
Thanks Ian :)
Thank you GunJesus, very cool
Used to have one of these , would like to buy it back from a friend collector , too poor though ;(
Thanks again
I really enjoy shooting the P7M8. The P7 series is pretty mechanically complex. I think it probably has far more parts in it than a Walther PP series pistol. It's a very cool design but way overkill for something like military use. The Beretta 92 series by contrast is fairly simple and easy to work on. It's also fun to shoot, but the fat grip kills the ergonomics in my hands. The P7 probably has the nicest ergonomics of any pistol I've handled.
Beretta may have been charging the Army $187, but i assure you dealer cost for a 92F was much higher than that...
Would've made an excellent General Officers pistol.
as a concealed handgun it is superb. I bet Gaston Glock took a lot of cues from this
Secret service
I had always thought as a federal undercover it would have been the obvious choice. Size, capacity, reliability, accuracy etc... it just ticks all the boxes. Wish H&K would start production again!!
Made a great weapon period.
To be honest, I still stand by the final decision that the Beretta was the way to go, and not just because it was cheaper. Just imagine how bad a P7 mechanism would stand the abuse and neglect that the U.S. military would have wrought on it. I still say that the only reason they 'needed' a new pistol (for the M17 trials or lack thereof) is because they were too cheap and lazy to do the proper maintenance and source proper replacement parts for the Berettas. After all, much of the focus has shifted away from small arms and their upkeep to big fancy artillery and missiles.
Actually the price point didn't matter at all in the P7 not having been selected in the XM9 program. The P7A13 didn't even reach the cost comparison phase of the trial. It was eliminated because it fared atrociously in the reliability tests.
The 92F was the only handgun that passed those tests. The minimum threshold had to be lowered for the SIG P226 top pass them, since the Army wanted to have at least two handguns to compete on price point.
Personally, I never had any complaints with any of the M9's I was fired in the Army. While it's true that I nearly always was issued an M16, still, the M9's I used and qualified on were all perfectly acceptably accurate (particularly the ones I used in the Oregon National Guard that had the Crimson Trace Lasergrips installed... I wonder if that was a "donation" due to them being a local company), and I never once had one that failed to go "bang" then eject the empty and cycle and load another round. A bit large and heavy for a pistol, perhaps, but what do you expect from a service pistol.
Hey, I live right next to Ashburn. We should get lunch sometime!
Was this the origin of the magazine release lever on the bottom of the trigger guard, like we commonly see today on H&K pistols like the USP?
Yes.
wow, nice history
If they could make this again I would want a P7 in 5.7x28 compensated to redirect the gases out of the line of sight. An optic compatible would make really make this stellar flat shooting pistol. HK is probably secretly thanking God I don't work for them.
I would buy this gun if they made it today
How many days did you spend filming in the Gray Room anyway, Ian? It's the gift that keeps on giving
As many as he had time and H K would allow, I suspect.
Quality and cost....fact...the Beretta won the trials based on the cost of its magazines, Beretta and sig both produced satisfactory guns, but the Beretta supplemental magazines required to be provided for each weapon were cheaper, so Beretta won the contract.
The only thing I miss from my time in the army. My G36.
I wish they would start making the P7M13 again.... I know it would be expensive, I would still buy it.
Damn it looks like it went 20 years into the future.
In the mid 1980's the US was PO'ed at Germany for some reason and took measures to jack up the prices of German goods by fucking with monetary policies. The price of Zeiss West optics also went through the roof (I needed an 8x30 monocular for it's twilight capability which the standard Tasco and Selsi Japanese imports did not have since they were 8x20 or 25. Also the Japanise units had a dog-leg shape and the Zeiss were inline and easier to carry). So it looks like we screwed ourselves out of a fairly decent gun
An HK versus the Beretta, Hell Yeah!
Sorry I ever sold my P7M8....... :( They're kinda heavy but they had the lowest bore line of any pistol from that era
The guns you get to fondle...
You really are the one true gun jesus.
Only Ian could make a gun that failed the military trials look good
On quite a few things I would agree with you, but what compares to a p7?
@@kentucker3784 depends on the category... looks? Capacity? How many rounds it takes before the barrer is to hot to touch?
Sure wish I had bought one of these in 1986 too.
I'm pretty sure H&Ks $500 commercial price tag was just that. The commercial price tag. They would've made the price competitive for the military. Case and point on the commercial market the sig p320 which was adopted as the M17 costs about $500+ but the army pays $176 for each. Likewise just as the M9 was $178 for the army, I'm pretty that wasn't commercial price
That just shows how much raw profit is in one of those.
I really really wish I'd gotten one years ago.
HK XM9 Trials
Story short "both of which fail"
Ian 20019
20019?
@@Govrin. gun jesus lives forever
Still patiently looking forward to an in-depth review on the boondoggle known as the p7 M10.. you know, for science. 😉🙂
Actually the P7A13 didn't reach the cost comparison phase of the trial. It was eliminated because it fared atrociously in the reliability tests.
Neutron Alchemist not in the third interation of the trials.
Never would I of thought a guy with a pony tail would be so cool
HK really should look into putting these back into production, I keep coming across the p7 all across the internet with nothing but rave reviews, perhaps a version without the grip safety, or at least one similar to a 1911 for the simpler folk.
edit: I'm not saying remove the grip system, its part of what made the gun good in the first place, just saying sell a version without it alongside it
I believe that lever is integral to the cocking mechanism for the first shot. Removal would mean it would be a different gun, mechanically speaking.
@@jayzenitram9621 by pre-loading the striker, The Squeeze cocking system makes for an awfully nice trigger pull for a striker-fired gun of that era
I like a lot the P7M13 and unless the grips... i like the P7A13 more than the M13.
I wonder what the white pistol behind him is.
Best handgun ever made IMO
cool pistol
Not a good design for a military pistol, too many areas dirt mud and sand can enter, but these are superb quality and p7 8 are very collectible, these guns get very hot after a box or two...
Sweet H&K pie.
Finally found the gun Vito shot Jackie Jr with in the sopranos
Olboy BadMusic I’m sure that was something else not a p7
Is that a clear USP compact in the background?
Yep
A catgirl nun eating a cheeseburguer :D
Dont forget the fact that if you measure based on the size of the p7 she holds, shes 6'10" at least, an absolute unit...
Is that a clear frame usp back there???
Good eye, now I'm wondering the same 🤔
Yes
What in the hell is going on with that pistol over Ian's right shoulder? Looks like it might be an experimental sight mounting device.
Looks to be a USP with a rail-mounted compensator/weight, with an extension up over the slide for sight mounting. I got to visit the gray room a couple years ago, but I don't remember seeing that one.
Hans Gruber approves this video.
Please someone explain why US military instead of common words such as pistol or gun come up with things like "modern personal one hand self defence system for close range" MPOHDSFCR or something similar ? HMMWV is typical example instead of all terrain car.
Why did they stop making the P7’s? These are so rare and expensive now.
I could trade my soul for a newly made P7 in .32ACP
@@ROSSD_ I personally would love a delayed blowback in .32
The softness of that cartridge in a semi locked action would make for a damn pleasant and controllable carry piece. Plus, I really think people ought to reevaluate their stance on .32, it's a capable round.
@@thomash4578 More mass and a light bullet are definitely going to be manageable. Of course that may leave something to be desired with external and terminal ballistics, but I subscribe more to how a gun handles for me than most other aspects of a firearm.
More guns
Easily one of the most impressive pistol designs to come out in the last 50 years. Too bad it was priced beyond what H&K could offer it for. Kinda makes you wonder what lengths gun manufacturers go through to win military trials. Sometimes it smells a little fishy...
Actually the P7A13 didn't even reach the cost comparison phase of the trial. It was eliminated because it fared atrociously in the reliability tests.
@@neutronalchemist3241 - I didn't know that. It's a complex little pistol for sure. Dropping it in a bucket of muck obviously was a bit too much for it! :)
Tnx for the informative video as always. I have a question though. I know this might be a stupid question but what is that hook loop at the bottom and just behind the pistol grip? I have seen such hook on many other pistols and revolvers, mostly from the 50's and 60's.
For a lanyard, so you don't lose the gun if you drop it.
@@ForgottenWeapons wow that's ingenious. Thank you very much for the response. I appreciate it big time. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏👍👍
What is your favorite H&K firearm guys.?
The fact that m92 outmatched P7 and P226 in favour of those armchair generals Because it was waaaaaaay cheeper made me hate this cheap chicken for a extended period of time :(
Did Ian film all of these HK vids during one visit?
Missed opportunity
Most certainly not first
With the horizontal lines on the grip it looks like 3D printed.
Gun Jesus reviews LT. Gorman's pistol
It's weird hear than the U.S.Army don't adopt the HKP7 for considering it expensive and other countries like Greece(HKP7M8) and Mexico(HKP7M13S) adopted an manufactured their own.
The price point didn't matter at all in the P7 not having been selected in the XM9 program. The P7A13 didn't even reach the cost comparison phase of the trial. It was eliminated because it fared atrociously in the reliability tests.
@DOUG HEINS For the record, I've always assumed those "$800 toilet seats" were for specific size/shape/weight/performance requirements being fitted into various vehicles or whatever, where they're custom ordered and fabbed to a particular and demanding spec and there's a run of perhaps only a few hundred or possibly at most thousands made. If you don't make enough to enjoy economy of scale, don't be surprised when your exceptionally exactingly crafted item costs orders of magnitude more than a "similar" item that to the uninitiated should "work just as well" but absolutely is unsuitable for the intended application.
@DOUG HEINS Sgt York. Such a glorious failure, but such a fine looking one. :D
@DOUG HEINS The Gepard certainly would have been better than the various 20mm Vulcan systems we got saddled with instead. Heck, it might have even remained in service to this day.
@DOUG HEINS Yes, a ranging-only radar or optical-only targeting isn't the best for fast and low engagement results. But then also, the 20mm suffers from a relatively low engagement ceiling compared to the 35mm or 40mm as well. Plus, of course, the substantially smaller warhead charge per shell.
Why isn’t there anymore videos from rock island or murfys auction or James d Julia auction anymore
nice.
P7s really are not THAT great as a combat pistol. They get hot, REALLY HOT, 4 magazines in a P7 or three magazine fulls through an M13 will make the pistol hot enough to melt a nylon holster and char a leather holster as well as burn the shooters hand and fingers. I can go on but you get the idea.
I think the retort would be that 4 magazines is a lot to go through with a pistol. It depends on what kind of combat you are referring to. For the military, it is probably not acceptable.
@@45calibermedic The P7 performed perfectly fine for the German Police issued the pistol but facing facts, long drawn out gunfights were not the norm in Germany at the time the guns were being issued.
@@onmilo Certainly, and they still aren't. Even in a military context, such usage isn't likely, in which case there's room to consider the advantages of the P7 design.
@@45calibermedic I owned a P7 for many years, and a P6 and a P5 and a P1, they are ALL obsolete designs. The newest Glock G43X and G48 have pushed to designs clear off the playing field in THIS, The Modern World.
@@45calibermedic There are NO advantages to the P7 series handguns in this, the modern world. It is a now obsolete design more in place as a curiosity collectible. It will remain popular as such in the same way as the Colt Single Action Army has endured.
...and the oddest ad to pair with a video goes to 3 minute metabolicfactor.com/p.mb/lander with their 'Burn Fat Faster' Pills for Menopausal Women on 05AUG19. Made the the 3:30 minute ad for drsquatch.com soap look normal in comparison. Gun Jesus, you damn well be seeing a Google Ad Check in the till at the end of this month!
Did Ian already do an episode on the P9?
He has a very old video on the P9S, I hope he gets around to redoing it with his now infinitely better video and audio equipment someday.
It's visible that Beretta was a lot better at that time. But the H&K can make a nice pistol like the MK 23.
AstrraTV Everybody, uncluding the test jury, said that the P7 is, by a large margin, the best submitted design of round 3 of the XM9 trails. Read it up.
Most of the gun nerds all around the globe consider the p7 as one, if not the, best handgun ever made. The 92 is okay but medicore at best.
@@haviiithelegogunner907 What? Actually the price point didn't matter at all in the P7 not having been selected in the XM9 program. The P7A13 didn't even reach the cost comparison phase of the trial. It was eliminated because it fared ATROCIOUSLY in the reliability tests.
The 92F was the only handgun that passed those tests. The minimum threshold had to be lowered for the SIG P226, the second best, to pass them, since the Army wanted to have at least two handguns to compete on price point.
Neutron Alchemist it wont get any more true if you repeat it again and again.
@@haviiithelegogunner907 I'm sorry to ruin the fairy tale you like to tell, but it's in an official document.
The P7A13 tests had been "Terminated by the Army on September
18, 1984, for falling reliability and corrosion resistance requirements".
In the 1984 trials the P7A13 had a failure every 158 rounds fired, the worst of any entrants (comparison Colt 1911 included, the second worst with a failure every 162 rounds) and a resistance to salt water corrosion of 86%, again the worst of any entrants. See NSIAD-86-122.
USA: The HK P7 isn't suitable.
Alex C from TFB TV: Hold my beer (Get it ? He carries a P7M13 all days long)
The Army could have saved a bunch of $ by going to the tested and tried Browning Hi Power.....
Three versions of the Hi-Power were submitted to the early trials and XM9 trials. None survived the first phase of the tests.
@ The FN Hi-Power BDA, one of those submitted to the XM9 program, was double action.
Why hk pistol arent popular in america?
in my dreams....
i would have a g36 and we would go everywhere she wants
Hope they won't turn spicy on you for telling about the failed trial back in '84 ^_^
True the Germans lost both wars, but they’re recovery is amazing. After WW1, Germany had to pay the Allies 132 Billion Gold marks and somehow still had money for the second war, even though living conditions were terrible. Then after they lost that one, they came back and have the fourth largest economy. Japan is 3rd on the list which I find funny considering they also lost the Second World War.
Weird gun for sure.