LandCruiser 70 Series V8 v 4-cylinder towing stress test & drag race! Is Toyota's V8 dead?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
- Toyota dropped a bombshell when it launched the four-cylinder LandCruiser 70 Series...but is it actually any good? Paul Maric stress tests the four-cylinder LandCruiser 79 up against the V8 LandCruiser 76 to see if you should buy a 4 over the 8.
More Toyota content: www.carexpert.com.au/toyota
More Toyota LandCruiser 70 Series content: www.carexpert.com.au/toyota/l...
Skip Ahead:
Intro: 00:00
76 Dyne Trailer 01:30
79 Dyne Trailer 04:59
76 Hill Road 07:14
79 Hill Road 12:12
Drag Race 16:52
Drag Race results 21:01
Verdict 22:28
We review every new car on the market, bust car myths, cover the latest car tech and answer your burning questions.
Whether you need new car advice, purchase validation or simply love learning more about new cars and technology, we are your car experts.
Subscribe to Car Expert: / @carexpertaus
You'll find us dropping new video content three times a week. If you'd like to ask a question about one of our videos, simply leave us a comment. If you'd like to give us any feedback on our content, feel free to email us, or alternatively, hit us up on social media.
Finally, we want this channel to grow with your support and feedback. If there's anything you don't like or would like to see us change, we'd love to hear from you!
Follow us on social media to see what we're up to and to ask any questions!
CarExpert:
Facebook: / carexpertaus
Twitter: / carexpertaus
Instagram: / carexpert.com.au
Paul Maric:
Facebook: / paulmaric
Twitter: / paulmaric
Instagram: / paulmaric
#toyota #landcruiser #70series - Авто та транспорт
V8 79 driver here. Very impressive performance by the 4-cylinder!
After 5000km (on-road) towing a 3 ton van I can tell you that descent control through engine braking is not something to be overlooked! Personally I found it way more useful than additional torque or acceleration. That feeling of the van pushing the vehicle down a steep descent is dreadful and I’ve often times been so grateful for the V8’s engine braking. (And in low range the V8 descent is god-mode!!).
If/when the 4-cylinder can do similar engine braking, I reckon it will win the overall battle hands down - for the average consumer. For now though, I prefer the V8 for its additional downhill control - and the safety and peace of mind that comes with that.
Thanks for a good video!
It sounds like you need a bigger tow vehicle.
As a former V8 76 owner I do agree on the engine braking in Low Range, awesome it was. In high range towing it wasn't any better than our other vehicles, so can't agree on that point. In fact, when not towing it's not even outstanding.
I went back to my old auto 3L Jackaroo one-day on a expedition with a mate and we both commented out of interest it had better down hill engine braking, (yes it would go from 4th back to 3rd on a decline by itself) than the V8 as 5th downhill it would just runaway, so back to 4th or 3rd to hold similar to Jackaroo auto.
Now, we have been down a hill in our V8 towing in 1st engine braking and it still run away.
It's only good in low range due to it's super low gearing.
I'm now in a 3L auto Patrol.
On road towing it's on par with 76, off-road in low range it just runs on, that's where the V8 76 was better, as long as the wheels had contact with the ground, they don't flex well, ha!
Low Range crawler, yes you're correct.
On road hi range, on par with others I've driven.
The most impressive thing about the V8 is that Toyota could market the 70s series towards a target market that was prepared to spend in excess of $100k for a $40k vehicle. I can't think of a better marketing campaign for a vehicle that previously had sales in a state of attrition for decades. And to maintain such a high level of demand for so long, despite the shortfalls in its design is remarkable.
People are stupid!!!
…. They never broke. Many would still choose the V8 over the L4, any day.
@@davide9849they are reliable but they do brake, and the V8 is more expensive to maintain then a 4 or 6cyl engine. Hiluxs, dmaxs, corollas, camrys etc are realaible too and people don't overpay for them like they do with these
He had to go back to first in the V8 lol 😂 I towed something at least as heavy as that behind my 3l 4cyl bt50 (dmax clone) over the great dividing range through thunderbolts way (hella steep) and never had to be below 2nd gear. So many butthurt egos in these comment sections, it must be so upsetting that they dropped a Hilux motor into the "MIGHTY" 70 series and it's shitting all over the V8 😂
@felixtimlock it's a really tough pill to swallow, especially when you've overpaid so much for it!!
I was talking to a guy 2 weeks ago who had done 350,000 kms in his V8 70 series. Maintenance up to date, engine original but several sets of springs etc replaced. It looked almost as weatherbeaten as he did. But he loved it and couldn't find anything he would swap it for. His mate had a 200 series with over 300,000 kms and he was also extremely happy.
The biggest thing everyone is missing is that yes the 4 cylinder makes more power and torque but its only a 2.8 ltr engine so its working a lot harder then the 4.5ltr v8. So the 4 cylinder is under more strain so its going to be less reliable. You're better to have a big engine working easy then a small engine working hard.
This is one of the basic rules of internal combustion engines (ICE), but nowadays, people favor marketing over engineering. Many believe more in the amount of subscribers than in truth, science, and common sense. They don’t care how many 2.8L engines will remain operational after their warranties expire. Stupidity is the most expensive thing in the world because it demands the highest price.
@@australia-ukraine its not as simple as that, newer engines usually have a better thermal efficiency. The 2.8L is 44%, the highest of all Toyota diesel engines.
Not really, GD engines are more reliable than a VD engine
@@cdion78 I don't even want to start an argument. Just wait; time will judge us. All science is useless in front of UA-camr "experts".
Sounds to me like just another excuse. How much proof do you need until you realise the 4 cylinder is just a more technologically advanced and better engine than the prehistoric v8. 😂
As far as I know the front track was widened to accommodate the V8 engine. The rear track remained original. Folks are paying to have the rear tracks widened to match the front.
It's high time Toyota puts in a 6speed manual with the V8
@@Txgearsa big part of the 4cyl's advantage here was gearing. I have a 3.6L V6 with a 9sp auto - a world ahead of the older 5 and 6sps for any application beyond drag strip torque.
theyre killing the v8, no point
@@Txgears
Toyota stopped engineering vehicles for application a long time ago. Profit via shared parts from lesser models has been going on for a long time now. Perceived values are ridiculous. Ablity off road , perceived via marketing . Reality once again gone, brainwashed percieved vslue , regular breakages perceived as normal . Did'nt used to be. Well there is no opposition. There could have been but our old American owners GM n Ford have and have had there heads forever up their own arses. Yes .... I drive a cruiser and have owned many and patrols and triton and F100 and B2600 and etc.
Another thing is plenty of large, 4x4 vehicles around the world now have a slightly wider front track. It's because it gives the vehicle safer, understeer characteristics in emergency situations (swerving, under brakes). Oversteer causes fish tailing, rollovers. The track difference in the 70 is too much I agree, but the configuration is not as wildly crazy asnpeople seem to think
I had the exact same mirrors on my Nissan Patrol in 1990. No kidding. Shows how modern the 79 is.
Well get a modern car then, why do people complain about something when there’s plenty of choices. Some of us like the nostalgia
@@brendonganga7499 LOL... it was a statement, not a complaint.
It isn’t the rear track that is narrower. They widened the front track to fit the V8. They just didn’t change it for the 4 cylinder.
spot on
But the track is still narrower on the rear
@@JF-di1nr here come the autistic internet geek comments. 🤪
Hopefully they change it back to narrow after they end the V8 deliveries in 2025.
The rear will never be matched to the front unless a rear wide body is added to meet rear wheel poke requirements if they widened the rear diff.
No wonder they are reliable. No power, no breakages.
Why do you think the old Toyotas are so legendary. The old hiluxs make about 30hp at the wheels haha
Detuned Engines less power= more reliability @@JC-zg4xe
Im not a cruiser fan by any means but revving out in 1st doesnt mean changing to 2nd at 3500. Theres another 1000 revs before the soft limiter, which is there to use. This may have given it a decent chance at pulling 2nd up that hill.
I agree but still gutless which ever way he did it
@@garryboyd104the short 1st gear doesn’t help either in this case because then there is not enough Rpm in second gear to help the v8 climb the hill
The 4cyl is impressive!!💪
Would love to see long term reliability compared to the V8 though...
My Uncle owns the 2.8Cyl in his Hilux its pretty good he went to Africa for tours and use it as his daily driver too. He got now 400k km onnit with no issues at all!
If the V8 sounded like the 4cyl, they wouldn’t sell one. People are happy to pay 100K for the woefully underperforming V8 just for its rumble. That’s it. No other reason. Why Toyota haven’t stuck another turbo on it like the 200 series is beyond me.
Finally someone mentions the auto gearbox as a notable difference. Different ratios (especially 1st to 2nd vs the V8), torque converter vs direct drive in the manual, even different diff ratio in the 4 cylinder to help the engine rev more & aid with acceleration. It's not just 70nm more torque & suddenly the V8 is no good, there's a world of difference that everyone likes to overlook when comparing the 2.
Great to see some people recognising the drivetrain is the only reason the 4cyl performs better. That just gets ignored by journalists and 4cyl fans. The v8 behind the same ratio diffs and with a 6spd auto would tow better and for longer. Only reason 4cyl is in the 70 is because toyota want to keep selling to fleets and they know the v8 and v6 won't meet the incoming e u r o emission standards
Exactly my thoughts, bullshit comparison
4cyl is cheaper to buy, run, and tows better. But for some reason, people can't accept this. There is a reason why the majority of truck manufacturers use inline engines over V configurations.
The torque wouldn’t be 70nm more there is a considerable power loss through an auto gearbox. Probably running very similar power and torque just getting delivered quicker in the auto.
They’re comparing the drive trains how they come from the factory.
Not that hard to work out
Wow first time comment a vid 15secs after released from one of my favorite channels haha.
My father used to have a MK-II LC 2.4 Diesel and had lots of long distance trips over 1,000km as family when we siblings were still young. By the time he sold the car it has over 600,000km on the odo yet the resale price was unexpectedly high without any major repair or replacement on both powertrain, transmission and drive tain.
Absolutely impressed.
My experience is you probably need to go a bit higher than 3500rpm in the V8 on climbing upshifts. Peak power is 3400 and some of the ratio gaps are pretty big. At the end of the day everyone knows the V,8 big drawcard is that almost everyone tunes theirs and wakes it up blowing the 4 cylinder away.
Not so, watch Ronnie's comparison with his tuned V8 up against his new 4 pot towing his 2.8 tonne van.
He couldn't believe nor was expecting the result neither.
His new 4 pot blew his tuned V8 into the weeds.
V8 couldn't retain 80klms, 4 pot retained 100kms.
Yeh but ronny has a very mild tune 😂
@@ianweal3081put the same tyres on the 4cyl Ronnie lost the last ounce of credibility he had with that video
@@knuckledustaz okay, but allow them to regear the 2.8 to compensate for larger tyre also as his V8 is.
That done, the four pot 2.8 would still clean up.
You just have to accept that the V8 has outlived it's time, just as the 6 cylinder 4.2TD Patrol lost out to the 4 cylinder 3L turbo. The die hard 4.2 lovers never accepted that either.
I owned a 4.2, it was a slug.
I owned a 4.5 76, better by far, but not great.
I now have the dreaded 3L Patrol.
It is by far the pick of all three, far far better power than 4.2 created.
It's on pah with 4.5 V8, irrespective to what the nah sayers say, I've owned all three and I know my 3L is the pick, as I suspect the 2.8 is over the 4.5 cruiser.
So yes, swap rubber, but vary ratios also and then by all means test them. His credibility will be fine in that scenario, as Paul reinforced in his testing, like for like.
@@ianweal3081 having owned v8 cruiser, 6cyl cruiser, 3.0hilux and best mate has a 4.2 patrol after blowing 3.0 zd grenade up. So I can also answer with experience- of the 4cyl experience the 3.0 hilux motor is the absolute pick of the bunch and all being stock in their respective vehicles is still the pick, the 1hdfte was great and wish I still had it and was a better motor stock than the 4.2 patrol and on par with the v8 1VD just down on torque but great reliability and fuel economy. Now tune any of these and I mean same tyres at minimum 34’s and stock gears to all the v8 1VD cruiser blows them away, followed very closely by the 1hd fte which is also common swap in the desert race scene into the cooled patrol as it’s a better truck. I have had these motors apart and can confirm that the 1VD is a stout motor with reliability if maintained. The 2.8 is a great city motor and perfect for the hilux/prado as is the new 3.3 in the 300 however these are not motors for big wheel big load and long haul touring trucks. If this was the case we would see kenworths with 5litre engines or a better comparison would be hino using the 2.8 in its commercial trucks. Take a look they run big displacement 4 and 6cyl diesels for longevity and torque.
FULL BOOST also did a review, 4cyl puts the v8 to shame.
The rear track width issue is the same across all 70 Series models. The effect is more noticeable on the wagon because of the shorter wheelbase.
Love these control tests
Great review. Goes to show you how far engines have developed over the last couple of years. Would be good to have the six speed manual matched with that 4 cylinder engine
Wouldn't pick anything else for what i do. Nice work Paul, cheers.
Exactly mate, your the only one on UA-cam who uses them for what they were designed for
According to Toyota own words, the 2.8 “equals or exceeds the torque of the 4.5 V8 from 1400-3400rpm”.
That might be difficult for people to understand when they see that the 2.8 peak torque of 500nm is listed as 1600-2800rpm.
But note the word peak. So when it’s not at its peak (under the curve) 500nm at 1600-2800rpm. It may be at 430nm at say 1400rpm, thus equals the peak torque of the V8 and exceeding 1450rpm all the way to 2800rpm.
Also note Toyota state the 2.8 makes 150kW between 3000rpm to 3400rpm. The V8 is strictly at 3400rpm.
I had a Nissan Leaf rear and it was a disaster in wet dirt roads and in sand for flopping from side to side and bogging and that also took the power out of the 4.2 turbo diesel engine. I was always going back to low range to try and get through those conditions. I was glad to get rid of it
I remember first driving the V8 and couldn't believe how pathetic it was and then seeing how much fuel it used. There is literally nothing going for it except the noise. Well done to Toyota.
Hi Paul. Great video. Do you think the worse aerodynamics of the 4 cylinder ute would have impacted the fuel economy and performance above 80km/hr? Would be interesting to see the results if a 4 cylinder wagon was used.
These trucks are ancient, slow, uncomfortable, have no features and cost too much. And i want one!
I relate- insane 😂
❤
Have you heard back from toyota about the aircon being weaker on the 2.8?
Not yet! Have hounded several times.
They put a smaller aircon on the V8 when going from the 1hdfte for emissions reasons so it's more than likely they reduced it again for the 2.8
The old Landcruiser 4.2TD had insane aircon. It was like a snowstorm.
Would be good if you could compare these results with the Ute results too
The V8 climbing with 3.5 tons brings back fond memories of my old 2.4 litre diesel VM engine powered 1988 Range Rover. Torque dropped off a cliff under 2200rpm and the gap between first and second gear meant revving to the governor in first to have a chance of engaging second and staying there up some hills. That contrasts with the 2.8 Toyota and my 2.0 twin turbo Ranger that really are in a different league. Starting off up hills with 3.5 tons behind was a challenge with manual five speed transmissions, a high first gear and insufficient low rev torque. It meant starting off in low range very often, though luckily the Land and Range Rover transfer box shifted up very nicely with double de-clutching.
It amazes me that the tow ratings are that high on these vehicles. We wouldn't be able to tow 3.5t with anything that under powered in North America.
@@rich7447 I wonder why you think power is important to tow 3.5 tons? A 45hp tractor is perfectly matched to that load and I towed 3.5 tons behind a Land Rover Hi-Capacity pickup for 22 years. It had 67hp diesel when new and black smoke when old
@@hedydd2 We have the J2807 towing standard which requires that a vehicle is able to accelerate to 60 mph in 30 seconds (35 seconds for DRW vehicles) while towing a trailer of the maximum rated weight.
A 45 hp tractor is not going to be able to maintain highway speeds especially in the mountains.
Our (US/Canada) speed limits are usually the same for all vehicles/combinations, and the police will pull you over if you are not close to keeping up with traffic. That means at least 65 mph on most interstates, but could be up to 85 mph in parts of Texas.
@@hedydd2 BTW: 3.5t is not a lot of weight to be towing here. My last truck was rated for twice that and the one that I currently have ordered is rated for 13.6t (30,000 lbs).
@@rich7447 I wonder how that is relevant? We have all kinds of trucks in Europe all the way up to giant Scania and so on. The class we are concerned with here though are one ton carrying capacity and up to 3.5 tons towing, over which much of the world requires a supplementary license, a tachograph even for domestic use, and enhanced safety and maintenance checks, none of which is probably relevant to you. These Toyotas and even the HiLux do fall into this category along with the Isuzu, Mitsubishi L200/Triton, Ford Ranger and many others including Land Rovers and Range Rovers, Land Cruisers, even though they aren’t pickups. Common trait is the 3.5 ton legal towing limit.
Great video mate, very fair test. I will be interested to see how many KMs people get out of the 4 cylinders. The V8s come well under tuned for longevity that's why you see them for sale with 900,000kms on the clock. I don't see the 4 Cylinder making it to 300,000kms personal.
😂😂😂
Nobody buys a vehicle to get a million km's out of it. Those rare ones out there are not the first owner. I've driven over 2 million km's but over 15 different vehicles.
Plenty of prados and hiluxes with this same combo over 300k.
Correct more power and torque and half the cylinders= twice the ware rate of the engine
I personally like big lazy engines they last for ever
@@jayd3931 I do still got my first car with 400k on it my second at 700k
My third at 360k
My forth it's been around the clock more times than I can remember the odo only goes to 99,999 Miles
The track is due to the widening of the front track to fit the v8. The back stayed the same as they didn’t need to change it.
Great vid as always Paul, one thing that really tests these wagons is starting off on a hill with the load, I blew the diff to pieces on my Nissan pathfinder manual with a 2.6 tonne load. Can’t fault Nissan they fixed it free of charge under warranty but it ended the holiday 👍
That would have been an experience!
Not sure we would want to try stopping on our hill in the V8. It barely made it up with momentum.
Can you please do a comparison between the 300 series Landcruiser and the Y62 Patrol using that 3.5T trailer? I'd like to see how they compare to the 2.7T trailer you used in the wagon comparison video.
Cheers.
It's been done, go to his channel, search through videos.
He tested all common wagons.
Defender was best from memory, but check it out.
Edit: yes it was a lighter weight he towed.
Hesitantly I'm backing the troll to win between the two you're querying.
That was really interesting !
Great content
It's really just a test between a car with an automatic transmission and a manual. Not surprised by any of the results (particularly fuel consumption). The guys did a good job of directly comparing the exact market offerings as usual. A better comparison in terms of performance would be a 200 series vs the new 70, however, this option isn't available anymore.
Nice to see the old Holden Proving Ground being put to use. It does look a bit overgrown these days.
You'll have to do a comments video about this video's comments
another great review Paul! would love to see you test the new 2024 model Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD!
I have been waiting for a Ford Super Duty (F450 King Ranch) that I ordered for the 2022 model year, so I have been shopping other trucks for about 6 months now. I didn't drive the 2500HD since I am looking for a dual rear wheel, but I did drive the 2024 GMC Sierra 3500HD and it didn't feel any different than the 2023. It does have a really nice interior and I was hoping that I would like the truck more since it is about $10k cheaper than the Ford.
Ram HDs all seem to have adaptive steering which makes them feel like you are driving a compact and they are the most expensive of the 3 available options.
And to think people wanna toss mud at something like V6 Ranger or 6 pot Defender despite Paul having to dive back to first not once but twice in the LC76....
I wouldn't be in a rush to own anything V6 or V8 to be honest, my partner has a ford territory with the earlier version of the new ranger diesel V6 engine, beautiful quiet smooth diesel to drive but wow what a nightmare under the bonnet! I was trying to find a drain tube for the AC and I can't really even get my hand in anywhere.
These v8 cruisers are no different, replacing injectors is a huge job and even replacing a starter motor is a $1500 job that takes all day! The old saying holds true that if you can't see the ground when you open the bonnet you don't want to be working on it!
Probs already answered but they had to widen the front track to fit in the V8, and did not bother with the rear to match. And from what I have heard, they have not changed it back now they have the 4 ?
The wide front track is a disaster on my dirt roads in wet conditions. Always trying to jump from one side to the other and I found that a big mistake
It would be interesting to see what the egr temperatures under load are.
Also with 4 cylinder what the temperatures of the auto gear box are.
These things will tell how long lasting the 4 cylinder will be.
No one is actually surprised! Figures don't lie, 500nm vs 430nm is a big difference. Anything with that much more torque is always going to perform better. What people need to understand is that the 4 cylinder is highly tuned and the performance is heavily pushed from the factory. The V8 is a very underrated engine in stock form, it has nowhere near the level of tuning and performance enhancement that the 4 cylinder has out of the box. There is a huge power potential available from tuning the V8.
Would to see a comparison of handling braking excerleration and towing of the less expensive GR Sport Hilux.
To pull that trailer at 100kmh (set at the full 10KN) would require a very powerfull engine. Simple math. You need 278kw of power on the road to do that. Not max engine power. You need to develop that power at the actual rpm for the gear you selected (4th, 5th, 6th).
That is AFTER you deducted drivetrain losses, rolling restance, drag etc. Cool test!
Any of the 3 popular diesels that we get in North America would easily tow that trailer at 10 kn. For some reason they don't seem to export them to Australia.
what are the sizes?@@rich7447
I wonder how long the 4 cyl motor will last under all those conditions. Bottom ends dont come cheap.
We run the hiluxs and 79’s in the Pilbara and put em through more than any person would in their private vehicle. They get smashed around the clock 24/7 by many different drivers and hold up well. Bang for Buck I’d go the hilux every time - comfortable, capable and reliable.
The question in my mind is, how long will a 4Cyl. Turbo engine last when they have it dialled up to delver 500nm, vs the old V8
That's what I was thinking
But I reckon Toyota would have tested it pretty thoroughly before releasing it
@@gdawwg1125 I guess we will see with the passing of time 👍
There’s nothing special in engineering and marketing: the former sells the truth, the latter sells the illusion of truth. A V8 4.5L will work for decades (as has already been proven by time), while a 4-cylinder 2.8L will last only as long as its warranty in a Land Cruiser body. Toyota, like any other car manufacturer, is interested in selling cars, not in customers’ savings. This is not just another consumerism trend; it’s a survival necessity in the current market. Years ago, there was strong competition among top engineers, but now, we see only a marketing battle. This battle is not about being on the consumer’s side but about selling cheap products for the price of quality ones. In 2016, I bought my VDJ76 for $75k and sold it in 2022 for $83k. Just last week, I bought a VDJL 79 V8; let’s see its selling price in 7 years and compare it to a 2.8L. Time is the best judge. When I listen to these ‘experts,’ my ears bleed, not because I own a V8 (I could easily get a 2.8L), but because I have an engineering degree and practical experience. Of course, I could be wrong, but I don’t believe in nonsense.
The gearbox is the difference here. The auto has more ratios and keeps the engine in boost between them.
Its technically the better powertrain here but I'd still have the V8 manual.
What would be nice is if they got the V8 up to the modernity of the i4.
The v8 diesels here in the US and Canada all get 10 speed automatics. Ram is the only manufacturer still using a 6 speed and they dropped their manual at the start of the 2019 model year (increased power in the Cummins put it above the input torque rating of any manual that would fit).
Would be good to see a 200 or 300 series auto against 4cyl auto.
300 would smash it. Very different vehicles aimed at very different markets
200 and 300 no comparison, they would both smash it.
My 100 series would smash them 🤣@@FoLlOwThEwHiTeRaBbIt1
Reckon your in for a shock.
200 would be behind not even on pah, 300 would kick it though.
The 200 gear ratios don't do it any favours, especially towing.
Can't hold 6th on level ground where the 2.8 holds 6th up hill at 100 klms, towing.
Watch Ronnie's channel, he was gobsmacked how good it is.
@@ianweal3081 Haha dreaming. From a person that’s driven and owned all of them, but the 2.8 L I can guarantee they’ll be no comparison.
Also, 200 series with a gearbox remap and tune I can tell you they go hard!
Have you not done the comparison between the gd6 and last model v8 landcruiser. If you did was the hilux excelling still compared to the v8?
You can never beat cubic inches, if the V8 was developed more and fitted with a six speed auto it would piss all over 4 cylinder. Also jury is still out on the longevity of the 4 cylinder when wringing its neck to get that much power out of it, i guess we will know soon enough.
How is the 4 cylinder better than a Hilux or Prado other than the rigid axle front end?
Not just peak torque that's important, how useful is it during the entire rev range?
To be honest I have been disappointed for years in the performance of our 200 series. For a twin turbo charged V8 it is very anemic and now with the 4cyl out performing it in every way it just proves the point. I haven't tried to have our V8 tuned yet, I'm not sure if it is going to make it perform much better. Might be time to trade the old girl in.
When has the 2.8 outperformed a 200? I have a 200 and a 2.8 hilux and a 3.2t horse float, 200 tows easily, hilux is slogging its guts out.
@@jeremycochran3668He doesn’t own a 200 & hasn’t driven one.
i wouldn't bother tuning any v8 cruiser i've seen chipped ones burn a hole through piston 7 or 8 also the pistons are made of aluminum i don't see them responding well to more pressure/heat
You do know the motor in the 200 and the motor in the 70 aren't identical right? I've driven 200s and I own a Fortuner, I can tell you now the Fortuner won't keep up with a 200, especially towing.
Makes my tuned Amarok look like a hypercar 😂
Will the 4 cylinder last as long as the v8 Which one would command more $ resale
i wanna see a tuned auto v8 vs a tuned auto 4cl
Ronny Dahl will do it
Has been done - tuned V8 lost miserably under tow
It's 25-30k just to put the auto behind the v8. That kills it right off the bat compared to the already automatic 2.8 litre.
@@chrisandshazza01it was better but not by much at all. His v8 runs 35’s, is a pre 2016 manual and has done god knows how many k’s. I thought that test was a complete waste of time- at least put the same tyres on.
The 4 cylinder is awesome, but if you drive a mildly tuned 650nm v8 on standard tyres it absolutely hauls even with the rubbish gearing
Another consideration is in standard form the V8 has been wound right down to go in the 70s whereas the 4cyl has been wound right up to it's max.
Good on you Paul appreciate your journalism, I think the trailerdyne is a great idea, I love the repeatability. I've watched a few 4cyl vs V8 comparisons and yours is the most scientific by far.
I think that Toyota's 150kw claim for the V8 is probably a bit optimistic, I've seen several dyno tests on the stock V8 and when you adjust results for drive line losses it seems that they don't truely make that much power. A fixed geometry turbo on the V8 vs variable on the 4cyl is probably a big part of why the 4cyl out performs the V8
Why the handicapping system of weight, makes no sense?
The 1VD in the 79 is unique to Aust. Toyota did that to shave 5k off the price and save having to re-engineer the clutch and gearbox rather than put the 200 series setup in the 79. There was always a compromise with the turbo choice. Nowadays if you were to fit a more modern turbo to the 79 it would close the gap significantly.
I still really luv my V8 76 thanks
I love my blanky
6:11 “It was much quicker to get to 100.” The V8 didn’t make it! 😜
In the v8 he short-shifted from 4th to 5th at 3200rpm, when it was still pulling! It would have got to 100kmh a few moments later in 4th. It's almost asnif he's trying to make the v8 look worse than it is
The V8 only makes 150kw. If you have a look at the results from the last tests that's not enough power to get to 100kmph. Also it's peak power is at 3400 rpm
@tersy9862 The 4cyl makes 1kw less. 150kw vs 151kw. So explain that
@@tersy9862 and also, if peak power is 3400rpm, he changed gear right before it got there to get himself down to 2000rpm again. How is that getting the most out of the motor?
@@tosgem peak torque on that motor is at about 2000 rpm. If you look at the auto box it was shifting in about the same spot. I highly doubt he was deliberately short shifting.
I was actually surprised to see the 4cyl make it to 100 as in the previous tests none did including the Hilux. The 70 series must have a power bump over the Hilux and better gearbox tuning.
The V8 is not only massively Under powered but it also doesn't have enough gear ratios. My mum's Mazda CX-5 4 cylinder petrol makes 140 kws. The numbers don't lie.
If Toyotos reliability is so good why didn't they give it the 200 series V8 spec????
Great video guys! If you can line it up, should do a similar test with the petrol 6.2L eight and 2.7L four from GM!
It’s only a matter of time before the 70 series gets the 300 series V6 to replace the V8.
Why did you weight down the 2.8 according to kurb weight?
You should compensate the body style difference instead because the 2.8 is lighter then the v8 in curb.
The 76 would not meet the requirements for its tow rating in North America. A vehicle needs to be able to accelerate to 60 mpg/96.6 kph in less than 30 seconds (35 seconds for DRW vehicles) while towing its maximum rated load.
Accelerating to 60mph at full load is not the same as accelerating to 60mph at full load up a steep hill, which is what the trailer dyno really simulates
@@kev090997 The trailer dyno provides up to 10kn of drag force. You get drag force from a conventional trailer from friction/load, frontal area wind resistance and grade. 1 kn is equivalent to 101.97 kg of load. I don't think that Paul specified what they have the trailer set to in terms of drag force, but would assume it is close to 3500 kn to simulate a 3500 kg trailer.
It's certainly different to our system, here we simply rely on the manufacturer giving us a max tow weight and Toyota over rate the 70 series, they are very unstable towing as Paul so rightfully hi lighted.
I used to arrive onsite white knuckled and super fatigued.
No other vehicle I tow with has those characteristics, you're constantly correcting the direction the towed item dictates you're going.
Aside from that, it's just not a great vehicle, so many superior wagon choices for similar money to be had here.
Utes, there's a plethora of options, cheaper and similar money to be had, most offering 3.5 tonne tow capacity also but unsure their rated well either.
@@ianweal3081 We have tow vehicles with wide track front ends, but they are dual rear wheel and long wheel base. All of our tow ratings are based on the SAE J2807 specifications and we tow at the same speed as the rest of the traffic (usually around 70 mph).
Maybe post stats without the weight ballast also.
There’s a place in the market for these 70 series Cruisers but it’s in the 40-50k range with all the other bare bones farm trucks like the Mahindra!
I had the misfortune of driving a new one of these 4 years ago for the day and the only thing I liked about it was the exhaust note. It still had absolutely no options not even A/C or electric windows 😂
Great work Paul.
Cheers Pat
Luckily you’re not pricing them for Toyota.
They have no trouble getting another $30k for them.
@@oggyoggy1299 it’s true but I guess people pay all kinds of crazy prices to be one of the trendy crowd.
Blokes literally just want the v8 even though a lot of them are just mall crawlers. They’ll be out of luck soon when the V8 is gone
. Yeah but Aussies are die hard dickheads. These are good vehicles. But massively over rated and priced. And most of these are booked up on finance so tap your interest on. Yeah Na.
i wonder what type of person walks into a Toyota dealership drops a heap of money on a farm truck with next to zero comfort feautures and then waits near 12 months to daily it when there are so many options available ,must be a special kind of consumer ,special
Yes a very "special" person 😂
reliability
The kind that pay no tax.
It’s all about resale and tax deductions the outlay is irrelevant.
Its because of their unrivaled reliability, people love them nonetheless
Projection is an amazing thing. Just because you can’t imagine why, doesn’t mean that there are folks that wouldn’t. Full disclosure, I have racked up many kilometres in a 70 series, and I would much prefer other vehicles, but at the same time I recognise it does fill a niche.
I wonder what this video will be like compared to ronny's video 🤔 (4 wheeling aust)
One thing they are not factoring in is the V8 is tunable the 4 cylinder is already running near peak power….
Toyota put out a statement somewhere that i read. The reason for the narrow rear track is due to nothing more than cost. Toyota said it was not a viable option as it would require a huge amount of modification to not only the vehicles but also the manufacturing process. The cost to change the current production facilities would increase the cost of an already expensive vehicle.
Why would the front track have an effect on a paved road? All in your imagination 😂
Please please please do a 200 series for the same test, so many here claiming the 4cly 79 would destroy a 200.
Hello, I own a new 2024 Ford Ranger Raptor, and I'm encountering significant vibrations while driving, particularly at 80 km/h, but the issue persists at all speeds. The vibration is consistently present, and though it slightly improves after the car warms up, the cause, whether it's related to the engine, tires, shaft, or springs, remains unidentified, and Ford has been unable to pinpoint the reason.
Which one has stronger chassis, hilux or 70 series?
12:59 Finally properly explained: there is no magic! And perhaps the extra torque is the result of a different mapping? And btw the 70 series are not for towing, they are for working (at least the 79).
Not for towing?
People used to tow caravans and trailers with HQ Holdens and Falcons.
@@oggyoggy1299 LOL you are right, not for towing 3.5T.
@@nicknick7052 For 3.5T I would want a full size. Much over that and it is worth stepping up to a HD pickup. My Ram 2500 was good to about 15,000 lbs, which was fine for my conventional hitch car hauler, but not enough for my gooseneck trailer. It's difficult to have too much truck when towing.
I want someone to compare a wholesale automatic converted v8 to the 4cyl one and see how that goes
The question for me would be longevity, will the smaller engine last in a work environment? I have a 1HZ ute that has been so reliable and has been a real world workhorse.
Zd30 patrol sound familiar? It had more power than the td42 and ended up being a heap of crap it was also a proven motor in the navara
But how does it compare to your Raptor Paul?
Id like to see tuned 4 cylinder vs v8
Toyota keeps the narrow rear because they understand that tail happy car is a fun car to drive.
To those that bought a 70 series V8 recently …. 😂😂😂
And loving it
@wanderer397 yeah I brought the V8 and very happy to say that aand agree with u. I couldn't give two shits if that 4 cylinder can beat me in a drag race. If this is the reason for buying a 70 series, then people are missing the point. I drive a brand new Hilux everyday at work, yeah it goes alright, but its still a hilux. Driving the new troopy puts a smile on my dial from the moment it starts 😊
Lol yeah look at these guys in denial they bought a flop 😂😂
😘
At least they got them at a discount...............😅😅😅😅😅😅!
The only thing I would have tried differently is to rev the V8 out a little more so it didn't bog down on the upshift. If you could have kept the revs over the 2000 mark where boost was created it probably would have done a little better. That said I'm an ACE sitting here watching a video so who am I to judge?
Turbo in the V8 comes on from 1200rpm. It’s just gutless compared to the 4 cylinder.
With the 3kN test, both vehicles seemed to be shifting/ed around the torque peaks, rather than the POWER peaks - further, I'd suggest manually shifting to the "red line", as that would laso be more like what a normal driver would do to "use the rev's", and shifting would drop it closer to the power peak. Depending on the specific spec of the 4, peak power is around 3k4-3k6 - I didn't see it getting anywhere near that! Similar story with the V8, but at lower rpm!
For those who are going to say - "use the torque" - well, duh, morons, shifting early REDUCES the tailshaft torque because there is less torque multiplication in the gearbox! Holding the lower gear gives MORE multiplication.
The telling story will be relability of the 4 pot. I drove the V8 (almost fully laden)over a period to 2 weeks through the Tanami Desert in pretty bad conditions. Could not fault it. Basic but you know it would take you home every day
You think Toyota is gonna make an unreliable 4cyl engine? Many hiluxes on the 2.8 with big kms no issues
that V8 is a boat anchor! my Touareg tows my 2.8T Caravan doing 1300rpm @ 100 Kph and uses 15.5L/100km.
I want to see the 4cyl vs a v8 with a 6 or 8 speed auto i reckon the results would be abit different 👍🏻
Probably. But if they don’t make it then what’s the point.
@@oggyoggy1299 to prove the V8 isn't that bad when equipped with a good auto thought it would be interesting
We get two (non-Toyota) v8 diesels with 10 speed autos here the US and Canada. You would have to get a 4 cylinder diesel from Mexico, but the comparison is possible.
I have a v8 diesel with a 10 speed ordered, so if Paul wants to fly over after I get it he is welcome to review the truck (F450 King Ranch with the H.O. Power stroke v8 - being built the week of March 18).
The four definitely out shines the V8, and in the long run it will go down to reliability which i reckon the 4 will be a reliable unit. Service costs should be, but most probably wont be lower for the 2.8. They are great vehicles, but their prices are way, way over the top. Even used 2019/2021 models still command ridiculous prices in the high 80' and 90's, and even in the 100's. Great vehicles but the price in the long run puts them in a bracket that really is reserved for a certain few.
There is in my opinion only one bulletproof engine that is perfect for HZJ and that's the 4.2liter straight six 1HZ diesel engine.
OK great test very interesting HOWEVER... we are neglecting the torque multiplication effect of a torque converter in the 4cl. If Toyota put the 200 series 6 speed auto behind the V8 the results would be much closer
is raving above 3500 rpm illegal in Australia ????
Changing gears too low in the rev range kills it. Try revving the thing to redline before changing gears. Or just get a Lexus :)
Same test on Mahindra Bucky
Would be nice to see the same tests with a mapped/tuned V8 compared to the stock standard V8 and 4 cylinder as well. I reckon this will change things up a bit. I reckon most work horse V8 cruisers are mapped…. At least in South Africa they are.
4 wheeling does this and the v8 still gets smoked😊
@@stevmacca5723 Thanks. I will quickly search for that video.
How do the V8s perform on steep inclines when dyno tuned and towing a trailer apart from them consuming a lot of fuel?
Cool now G-Turbo the VDJ and do a re-test with the same boost level as the 4cyl. 😝
Yes Paul, the 76 is a poor tow vehicle, always advocate that to anyone considering buying one. The best item in a 76 was the motor and that wasn't great sorry to say, as everyone is discovering now the 2.8 is bettering it by far.
That swerving from side to side you attribute to narrow rear axle, which certainly doesn't help but I believe it is more to do with wheelbase (short) and the long overhang from rear axle to tow ball.
That gives caravan leverage over the 76, hence why the 79 is better as wheel base is longer.
Even our trailer wagged the 76 around, they are a herendous tow vehicle. Our van was 2.3 tonne, that 3.5 tonne, would be absolutely dangerous.
Thankyou for such a factual comparison.
Thought you could have given the v8 a few more revs than you did
i only think theyre still offered with a v8 to sell the rest of oldstock.
these things need the new 300 series 6cyl diesel and this 4cyl as a base model.
The way things are looking, the F33A isn’t going to pass the Euro 6d emissions regulations coming in 2025. Whilst they would be allowed to keep selling it until 2028, I think it’s clear Toyota have thrown their backing behind the 1GD. It’s clearly going to be their workhorse for the tenure of Euro 6d, along with petrols.
If the F33A doesn’t cut the mustard for the new emissions, then you can probably farewell the LC300 too - unless they save it by giving it the V35A. No one would buy an LC300 with a 1GD when the next LC Prado - which is nearly as big (same chassis, same width) - is getting the 1GD.
If the 1GD sinks the LC70 (because of ideological reasons), that could see LC Prado carrying the flag for the Land Cruiser nameplate.
@@CM303898Unfortunately you are correct mate. Euro 6d is the end of 4wds and cars as we know it. Sad day for car enthusiasts.
@@JoeCass12 idk if it’s the end “as we know it”.
Ford will still be rocking their 2.0L EcoBlue, and 3.0L Powerstroke; both engines are designed to take AdBlue to reduce emissions, and both Everest and Ranger have the space behind the filler flap for the AdBlue receptacles to be added.
I’m not too sure on most brands, but I’m pretty sure - given Europe is a good indicator thanks to their earlier adoption of these emissions regulations - that there will be a massive uptake in petrol engines.
This will transform the automotive landscape here in Australia; decades of tow vehicles slowly growing in power figures, whereby still the most common family haulers are still running with around 150kW. Come 2025-2028, we’ll probably start seeing a massive growth in 200kW+ petrol 4WD’s.
Then add hybrids like the PHEV package coming to Ford’s Ranger (approximately 270kW/680Nm), and the hotly tipped hybrid coming to the next Toyota Hilux’s (243kW/630Nm).
I have a Ranger Raptor and it just rockets away when I need to blast by for an overtake on the wrong side of the road. 5-10 cars in no time. Imagine what the highways will be like if most people are cruising around in circa-250kW/650Nm, 3 tonne dual cabs.
Perhaps in 10 more years there’ll be far fewer nomads in vehicles dawdling along because their vehicles are maxed out towing.
@@CM303898 what you described is literally the end as we know it 🤣 The industry being forced to move away from large capacity diesels and replace them with smaller capacity petrol hybrids..I guarantee Ford move away from the 3.0 V6 diesel and will only offer the 2.0 diesel or 2.3 turbo petrol..The next hilux will use the 2.4 diesel + hybrid and the 2.8 will be phased out.
@@JoeCass12 but nobody wants a Toyota 4.5L V8, or a RAM 5.7L V8 Hemi, or a Chevrolet 5.3L V8, or a Nissan 5.6L V8.
There’s been no emissions regulations changes in this country since 2013.
The reason those engines are disappearing isn’t because of our regulations; it’s the regulation changes in more lucrative markets driving that.
The 79 (4cyl) is more stable because it has a longer wheelbase then the 76
For many people here, the mere statement 'another Ronnie said so' is taken as undeniable proof that a 4-cylinder engine outperforms a V8, which is quite disheartening. It's frustrating to see so many idi...s, especially on the road.
Most power modes just change the shift pattern. Hold in a lower gear longer.
and lock the TC sooner to help with heat