The difference in sound is awesome mate, so much deeper sound, definitely a worthwhile conversion and well done for taking this one on and sharing, cheers Dazza
Yeah, I think this was well worth doing Dazza considering the end result, at least it now gives folk another choice if they want to do it this way or not. ...........Graham
Hi Graham, what a difference between the two. It's great when a project comes together especially if it's a little daunting at first. Grand job. Susannah
Brings back memories of sitting on New Street Station with my train spotting book!!How sad,not even Maria knows I used to do that as a lad! Great videos again, waiting to see your locos coming out of the tunnel is just magic,so much so I am just building two tunnel portals to go on the incline on our layout in a long hillside tunnel .You are so right when you said to me not to fix anything down as I keep changing things top job as usual Craig
Many thanks Craig and like you I love watching (and hearing) the trains coming out of that tunnel - especially this Deltic - lovely. ;-) I tend to build a few things and live with them for a while before finalising anything, that way it gives you a chance to change your mind about that perfect position you thought you had ! lol. Don't worry about the train spotting thing mate - I won't say a thing to her about it - not even on Facebook! ;-) ..........Graham
Many thanks Rob, I'm really pleased with that final outcome of the sound, it was a little scary at times when doing the cutting as I could see I was getting nearer and nearer to the limit but luckily I din't screw up and the speaker fitted (just) into the new opening. I'm glad you like the sound, that's the main thing. Thank you. .........Graham
Took me back to Doncaster station in the 60's and 70's, as the overnight Deltic hauled train, pulled alongside the platform. I think you can call that a result, lovely sound.
Thanks Ian, I know you used to be on the Deltic hauled trains and so your thoughts and memories of the comparison were important - glad you liked the sound. ............Graham
Blimey Gavin, sorry that you have pain with your hearing, what a horrible thing to have to put up with but glad you enjoyed this all the same. ;-) ............Graham
hi graham , so reminds me of trainspotting at finsbury park watching the deltics coming thru the tunnel form hornsey station on their way to kings cross. circa 1962/4 when i was 10 years old very realistic sounds mate just right on my memories of those golden days cheers mick
Well that's excellent mate, it may not be totally realistic if there was one standing next to you right now but if it can evoke memories of the sound of years gone by then we're more than halfway there - that's the way I look at it. ;-) ...........Graham
Thanks Greg, I don't think it's quite as good as Andy's but with just the one speaker instead of two then it's come out a lot better than what I had previously, I'm pleased with the result. ..........Graham
Graham i did see the vibrating fuel tanks, also the number on the loco IE10 on the front and a different number on the back IN03 and on the side D9008 i'm am confused? Please explain cheers Robert
Hi Robert, the D9008 number is the loco number (pre TOPS where they renumbered them) and the two end numbers and letters are what I believe are destination or route codes, I have never understood how they work but I'm sure there are many folk on hear who would know. ............Graham
csxmad You will find a good explanation in Wikipedia: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_reporting_number Since the code on the end of the loco depends on the (last) destination, they will be different, (unless the train went forwards to one destination, and then only went backwards, until finally it ran the same service to that same destination at the same time of day "backwards", which is most unlikely) You will find it a challenge to light the head code evenly, hence the move to the domino codes simplifies the modelling task. In comparison, the article on TOPS (en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOPS) is not so useful, and the pre-grouping (for steam) and pre-TOPS (for diesel) are quite a challenge and require detailed knowledge. Regards, Tom
Glad you like it Peter, I certainly do and it was worth the work fitting it in, I will see if I can grab some time from doing all my other chores and do a proper running session of it. ..........Graham
Eating aids - that's different, I'll have to give that a try, personally I think you might have been better off putting your hearing aids in instead !! lol. It is Friday night so I'll let you off! ;-) ...........Graham
Hi Graham Great sounds it captures that deltic hum really well it takes me back to Doncaster station many moons ago great action shots as well .......Paul
Cheers Paul, yes a few people have mentioned Doncaster where they have seen (and heard!) them, I never did unfortunately but it must have been an amazing sight. ...........Graham
Many thanks Neil, yes I'm really happy with the sound of this, disregarding the cost of the decoder as I would have got that anyway then the cost was only about £23 so very worthwhile I think. .........Graham
Hi Graham,I just bought a front plate for my class 55004 from fox transfers item No HB300 which is shaped like a pair of wings with a Scottish Thistle in the centre,I fitted it today and it looks great as I got a picture of one on the net.Fox transfers do other ones for the class 55.If you get time have a look and tell me what you think,I just wanted to tell you about these plates that you can fit on the front of the class 55 as there might be one that you could get for You're's.Regards,Jim.
I saw (and heard) that too David, pure coincidence that I was doing this at the same time as the mag came through the door! I'm very pleased with the sound though, certainly a lot better than I had before. .............Graham
This must surely be the best available - I was using headphones, and the low speed is like listening to / watching a real Deltic. Thoroughly impressed - I'd use this in your opening credits (or whatever, they're called) - lovely sound. Alan.
Yes, sorry about the length of that first one but I need that time to explain everything, any shorter then I knew I would get a load of questions because I wouldn't have covered them. This one I have made nice and short to compensate. ;-) ...........Graham
Thanks for that Darren and yes that would would look great wouldn't it, I have seen it done on both O gauge and OO gauge, the O gauge Deltic looked the better of the two as it had a fan assisted smoke generator fitted, it looked totally awesome. ..........Graham
I can feel the vibration from here I The deep rumble sounds very good all in all quite a realistic sound. You will have a job bettering it for sure. As it came from the shed you could see the speakers throb.. Great sound mate........
Thank you Stuart, yes it was actually making the shed vibrate as it sat there at idle, you can also see the chain on the water crane moving too as it was sat at the platform - it certainly has some punch to the sound now and has that lovely low rumble - lovely! ;-) Glad you enjoyed it mate. ...........Graham
My ears! My ears! ;-) Wow - an immediately noticeable and improved difference. You can indeed see the speaker cones vibrating with the roar. Sounds proper now Graham. The diesel sound previously was tinny by comparison. Well done mate.
Hehe, glad you like it Davie, I certainly do and I think the work to get there was worth it. It sounds to me a lot clearer too and not so much of a mash of sounds which I think is more down to the speaker than the SWD sound file but I'm still pleased I went for the Legomanbif decoder though. ...........Graham
And I'm sure you could still use the older stuff in another diesel and no one (well, only certain people!) would know it was from a Deltic. As you say, and I agree, your layout, your rules. Great quick conversion and no tears before bedtime with cutting very close to the edge of the existing body work. Great job mate.
OMG, speechless mate, even listening through the TV speakers you can hear the difference in the deeper tones, that is purely amazing Graham, it was even deeper than the rift from "The Chain" by Fleetwood Mac :0) EDIT - Going back to the house to listen to this through the sub-woofer so I can get the complete experience...
I hope that nothing fell off the walls!! lol. Did you spot the chain on the water crane at the end of the platform vibrating!! ;-) ..............Graham
Nothing fell off the walls, but it did make Debbie climb them lol. Yea I saw the water tower chain as it reminded me that I'm waiting for the Dapol GWR DCC water tower, but I didn't notice it vibrating, damn now you've got me needing to go back and watch it again, and Debbies only just got climbed back down from the walls and settled on the sofa lol :0)
Just an off--topic aside, I love how the exit from the helix has the coaches straight before they come out of the tunnel. Well worth the extra few inches in the dark so that the train is still running straight (apparently) after it completes the tunnel section.
Not many people have noticed that Tom but yes, I didn't want to see coaches coming through that tunnel mouth on a bend showing their 'ends' - it just wouldn't have looked right. ..........Graham
Hehe, thanks Scott, thought you might like that! ;-) Yep, I think that woke a few of those up waiting on the platform for their early commute! lol. The Tee Shirt was a present for my 65th along with a loco a few years back and I love it. ...........Graham
Thank you Anthony and pleased you enjoyed it. Yes, I managed to grab a day or two of doing some train stuff but will be back doing other non train related things on the weekend but I'm sure I will be back doing more train stuff soon - I can't keep away from it for too long! ;-) ...........Graham
Nice one Graham ! The only way to do the king of the diesels justice. I really like what you've done,I really couldn't have the Deltic any other way myself,the only thing missing is the clag !
Thanks Andy. I'm now seriously thinking and working on the clag. I have the old ESU powered smoke fan generator from my O gauge Class 50 sitting doing nothing - mmm, it has me thinking. Now that I have this part working then I could be very tempted to giving this a go, it's finding the room for it. ...........Graham
Absolutely Dave and I put a link to his video in my previous video (Part 1). Andy has two of these speakers in his Deltic which DC Kits fitted for him, I opted for the one speaker under the fuel tanks but now I know what's involved I may end up fitting two in the top like Andy has got and end up with three speakers and two decoders - a massive job to do but should prove interesting if nothing else! ...........Graham
Good idea Dave, I don't know how much they charge for the conversion of either the one speaker or two speaker/two decoder set up is but I'm sure if you contact Andy then he will be able to tell you how much it cost. ............Graham
Hi Graham and Dave, as i am one of their frequent customers that i was told by Legomanbiffo and their very good man official custom sound fitter; Merlin DCC, the standard cost for 1 sound decoder and EM2 conversion plus fitting is around £195 and less than that about £175 for v4, EM1 fitting . But that is just approx when i and Andy Huggins bought ours. So therefore to partake the "Atomic option" of two EM2's and 2 decoders fitted that might well be double cost ? Although check that with them first. Either way i wish i had deep pockets or nimble fingers to do the unspeakable of 2 in the chassis and 1 bass reflex in the tanks !! LOL. 😉 Tim.
The added bonus with a sound decoder is that it's normally a much better quality decoder too - well that's what I have found anyway. You don't have to go mad and do all the locos, just pick a couple of your favourites to begin with and have some fun with them and if you get fed up with the sound after a while then you can just turn it off, I do that quite often. You will soon find out if sound is for you or not. As you know - it's not everyones cup of tea and I can appreciate that, each to there own as they say. ;-) ...........Graham
I get that Graham it was as much the cost than anything else and of course you are right in saying that not all my Locos need sound but as the quality is getting better and more powerful decoders coming to the fore its a good time for to bite the bullet.
I think you're absolutely right Mark, the cost is of course a major factor to think about which on average works out to about £100+ per decoder. Good luck with your choice and if you do get something then let me know and if you put a video up of it then let me know that too. ...........Graham
Yay!! Welcome aboard Ray, great to see you on here. Yes, you are one of the privileged few, I hope the cheque is in the post to me - obviously for £1.00. ;-) ............Graham
thats one hell of an awesome sound.takes me back to the old east coast main line in her hay days. i must Finnish paying for my NCB power cab and convert its no good. and now i can blame it all on you to the wife graham lol
You go ahead and blame me Paul, I'm quite used to that as I get the blame for everything in this bloody house anyway so it's not a problem! lol. Glad you enjoyed the sound mate, I know I do! ;-) ..........Graham
That sounds so good, those speakers really make a difference. I used to have 3, 00 gauge deltics, 2 with basic speakers and one with a full base reflex speaker in the fuel tank like yours. The difference between them was massif, but I think the difference between the base reflex one I had and your new em2 one is as big a difference.I am going to get sound in my 0 gauge deltic I hope to be impressed by the sound from that but after hearing yours it has a lot to look up to. I wonder what 2 of those em2's would sound like side by side? Robin
Hi Graham. I watched the installation film with a great deal of interest. The result....well, phenomenal ! But (and I have to voice this opinion) these auxiliary base radiator speakers are too loud for the relatively small ambient space and distances involved on a 4mm scale layout. To exploit them you really need a huge area, otherwise with a number of them going at the same time everyone is going to be deafened. Yes, I know you can turn the volume down (and they will probably still 'shake' the atmosphere) if you do - but it may well become uncomfortable ! The video expertly showed the Deltic in glorious close up, and I was more than able to believe with this sound that I was looking at an 'O' or '1' gauge offering pulling away outdoors - which would have been dead right. For 'OO' scale, though, (and this is simply my opinion) I do think for the distances involved on the average size layout these remarkable sounds, rumbles and other bass noises are just a little over the top - how about trying one in your 7mm class 57 ?.................Reinhard
Hi Reinhard and thank you once again for your very informative comment. As you know I do like hearing sound on my locos but I for one cannot have a prolonged time of the sound - it drives me round the bend if it's too loud and goes on for too long. I do understand what you are saying - 100% but this video was really to show it's potential rather than it's normal running sound which I have turned down already to suit me. The other thing which needs to be taken into account is that at some stages in that video I was about 6" away from the Deltic and so the front facing mic was getting it full in the face. My problem (as with most of my videos these days) is that I have to try and please literally thousands of people and I can guarantee that if I had turned the sound down then I would have had many comments saying that it was too soft and didn't reflect that Deltic rumble. I find it increasingly more difficult these days to get a video where it suits everyone and to legislate for everyones taste is impossible. I know you are not complaining about the video - just that the noise would be too much in a small environment which I whole heartedly agree with which is why this Deltic of mine is now turned down for my own use. My Class 50 7mm uses a 2" speaker in a massive sound enclosure - now that is loud with fabulous base to it and would make this Deltic sound pathetic by comparison. ;-) ............Graham
Hi Graham, as usual, you and I agree 100% and of course it's difficult to 'do' a video to suit everyone! I guess my re-action was overstated - I just get p****d off with the "Pink Floyd in a garden shed" brigade! Out of interest - Keith has an '0' gauge Deltic - I'll encourage him to allow me to film it - All the best, Reinhard
"the "Pink Floyd in a garden shed" brigade" lol. Love that expression. ;-) Ooh yes, I think we need to see that O gauge Deltic without a shadow of doubt = what a beast that must be. ..........Grahm
Brilliant sounds Graham, you have definitely made my mind up about the install. Just one question, I noticed when you moved out of the shed at the beginning I could see the speaker vibrating, is there still enough clearance to clear items on the track, such as uncouples or track that has imitation concrete you would see on level crossings or TMD?...Simon
Hi Simon and glad you like the sound. The way it stands at the moment then the speaker cones would no doubt hit uncouplers, not so sure about the concrete but there is a bit more room yet where I can take it a little higher which I will do as it's a little too low for my liking at the moment. There is only a certain amount that the speaker can go up though because of the motor (which obviously can't be moved) but I haven't taken any of the height off the speaker yet which is feasible as it's quite thick - you can see the join line so you can see how thick it is. The only thing you need to be careful of is the small circuit board for the connections to the decoder. Hope that helps. ............Graham
Hi,Graham,I think it is much improved and to see the speaker's rumble was good as well as the sound.In model Rc aircraft servo's are being used for point's and signal's and there is a speaker for model aircraft which is fitted inside the fuselage and it points toward's the fuselage side wall they are called Transducer speaker's,They are from HobbyKing you can get bass speaker's and treble speaker's and the sound is very good as I got some and fitted them to one of my planes and it's great.I wonder if this type of speaker through time will be developed to fit in model trains.That way the sound travel's along the inside of the loco and you don't have to cut the loco to fit the speaker,It's just a thought who nose if they could come up with something like that.I loved the video,Best regard's,Jim.
You never know James, things are being developed all the time these days at a rapid rate of knots, only time will tell I guess but I wouldn't be surprised at all of a development whereby the speaker itself is eliminated completely and something digital takes it's place to give the true sound of the recording. ..........Graham
Like hearing one of these "take off" from Grantham station in days of yore !! The em2 speaker does Leggomans sound file total justice . Done a good job there Graham . Wonder if anyone out there has "em2'd " a Howes Western file yet ?
The engineer in me has to ask how much of this is the speaker, and how much the sound file. Whilst I'm not asking you to reverse the installation 😉 I do wonder what the SWD decoder would sound like with the EM2 speaker. Also, for similarity, the test on the rolling road on your workbench is going to have a different response to track on your layout baseboard (or should that read bassboard?). But I agree, there's a world of difference; the question is where the best bang-per-buck lies? Regards, Tom
I'm sure the SWD decoder would sound much better with the EM2 speaker in it Tom - I have no doubt about that whatsoever, but I also wanted Legomanbif's sound decoder hence the reason why I got it, I will save money by just getting the SWD decoder re-blown for another loco which I think costs about £12 but not sure on that, certainly a lot cheaper than buying another sound decoder. This was by no means meant to be a scientific experiment carried out in a laboratory - it was just a rough guide. I agree that having it set up on my rolling road will make it sound different (slightly) than on my layout but I know from experience that there is not an awful lot of difference between the two. Disregarding the cost of sound decoder because I would have got that anyway then for approx. £23 for the speaker then I think the bang per buck in my opinion was well worth it. ............Graham
Graham Foulston Graham, I agree that as a consumer, we should not have to run fully scientific tests to compare all the combinations of sound files and speakers, and for the sound file teams, they don't want to start a "mine is better than yours" war, so there are very few places where such comparisons can be found. And each sound file will work best with different installations. I don't fancy fitting the EM2 in a Peckett, and I doubt it would be worthwhile. So for a class 37, this bass speaker may be the best thing, but for a Class 20, the ringing of the cylinders on over-run requires a higher frequency response. I saw a Deltic run at SVR a couple of weeks ago and felt that the power did cause a good sound, but the high-revving meant that it was smoother and quieter than many other diesels at lower power settings. (It was also running on one engine, but even that was not heavily loaded where I saw it) So perhaps, as with detailing of everything, research into the prototype is essential, and comparisons, leading to optimal configurations for each loco type, should be requested from the sound suppliers, and rated by public applaud. And, as you have shown by using the special functions for smoke, we should use the decoders at their best!
Graham, You've mentioned below that this is a representation of the sound; we would not want to try to generate the real volume of the horns (to be heard over the motor at full chat) or have to produce scenery that mimics the acoustic reflections of the real world (like the echo from a rock face, not least because the time delays would not scale), and I recognise that I'm being picky. This is a great result, and sets the bar for similar modifications. Nice one!👍
You hit the nail on the head Tom and I think that this is a good comparison to use whereby you pick up the right tool to use for the job, this would be the totally wrong speaker to use on a little Peckett, it would need something that would be best to utilise the higher end and not the base which obviously this speaker is designed for. To be fair on DC Kits, they will advise you on the best speaker that goes with the sound file and the loco too. We are sometimes limited in what can be used in different manufacturers locos, a certain speaker may fit in one kind of Class 37 but may not in another version - not without further modifications anyway so even that has to be taken into consideration. Having said that then I knew only too well that before fitting this then this was not going to be a walk in the park by speaking to DC Kits and researching other areas too. But his does make our hobby bloody interesting though! ;-) .........Graham
That footbridge is coming up along with the platforms and track in that area - it is going to be remodelled totally! New platforms, track and points, it's the weakest part of the layout but that's a winter job I think. ..........Graham
It certainly sounds great Graham. I'm with Tom Lawton on the question of how SWD would sound through that EM2 speaker. But the biggest mystery to me is how that speaker actually works! It cannot be as simple as the two cones operating in opposition simultaneously as that would simply attenuate the sound much as a speaker without a baffle does. There must be some cunning trickery inside the box that enhances the sound rather like a bass reflex enclosure does. I spent my working life in electronics, some of it in audio, and I hold up my hands and say I have no idea! I have heard many people praising Legomanbiffo sounds. What brand was the sound decoder? I think he uses ESU. ............................John
Yes the decoder is an ESU version 4 John. As regards the workings of the speaker then I have no idea apart from that there are two speakers - one active and one passive with baffles inside a digitally printed enclosure - anything else is way beyond me. Unlike you, I have absolutely no idea about electronics and audio so all I do is act like a consumer - I like what I hear and so buy it and fit it - how it works and how it gets to that end result I leave to the boffins who design them - that's what I pay them for. As I said to Tom, I am sure the SWD decoder would almost certainly sound better with that speaker attached to it but I wanted Legomanbif's sound file in this Deltic and the SWD decoder I can send to DC Kits for a Legomanbif re-blow. .............Graham
It's DC Kits who supply Biff's sound is it? I must check out their website for possible use on North Grove. I usually favour Zimo decoders as they have such great motor performance and control. ESU don't have so much adjustment capability but that is not necessarily a bad thing! .............................John
Yes I have been converted to Zimo over ESU but there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the motor control on this decoder - I always do a CV54 check on ESU decoders which helps a lot on the motor control. ...........Graham
The other good thing about Zimo is their smaller size, I would hate to have to fit an ESU V4 into an 08! .........................John p.s Is CV54 the auto setup for the motor?
Hi there Graham. I myself is a big fan and owner of the Earth Mover speaker configuration, from Legomanbiffo since they came out mid last year 2016. I have 2 locos soo far with them inside. I just uploaded my first rather basic and experimental videos of them on my new UA-cam channel, having done so because Andy Huggins's channel (my Dad, who i co- own the layout with, whose on your subscriptions) might not get his better videos up in time to join in the new DCC sound revolutionary fame this brings along with you. 😉 👍Sounding brilliant the Deltic and very brave you are in fitting yourself too. These really do move the earth aswell as the ballast underneath ! P.s does this still have SWD or new Legomanbiffo sound inside ? Thanks.
Thanks Stephen and you're right, the slow running is perfect for me, the best part of that video for me was the Deltic hooking up to the coaches - completely controllable. .............Graham
More excellent work Graham, a pleasure to see your work once more. Just one thing though, will you need to reinforce your layout now with ALL that vibrating ? 😂 Good stuff Grahame
Hehe, good point Grahame - that could cause some serious damage, I'm surprised that the speaker doesn't come with a Government health warning! lol. ...........Graham
That's more like it!! I could actually listen to that without wanting to turn it off due to the 'orrible tinny racket they normally make! The sound seems to be deeper and a much lower ear friendly frequency to me.
Yep, it sounds a lot better for me too, the difference is quite amazing which I am sue is mainly due to the speaker and not so much the sound decoder. ............Graham
its almost certainly the speaker rather than the decoder which only transmits signals. Ask any audiophile, after a good amp to drive them, speakers are the most important component in a good hi fi setup.
Agreed. I have decided that I will make a short video where I swap out the two decoders using the same EM2 speaker now that it's fitted to see what difference (if any) there is, I shall do this on the rolling road so they both have the same surroundings - it won't prove anything as such but will show up any differences which folk can then make their own mind up which they prefer. I think it will be just an interesting exercise to do. ............Graham
Good idea Graham, perhaps it will dispel some myths regarding 'good' and 'bad' decoders. The realism of the sound is only as good as the sound file recorded on the decoder rather than the decoder itself. And the actual sound quality is, as we know, down to the speakers.
BTW can I ask, what video camera are you using to record your vids? I'm building a sci-fi layout shortly similar to Laurie Calverts efforts. (I have been doing Games Workshop stuff for years, and want to combine my relatively recent newfound interest in trains with my minatures painting hobby).
Graham Foulston Graham, yes, most impressive, but with a pair of decoders (presumably paired in a consist) it would be hard to get one engine out of sync to get the beat. It's not as bad as using a single decoder on a duplex loco (like a Garrett), where the relative beats would probably never be the same from one journey to the next (the phasing depending on wheel-spin, which would be a lottery); at least the load sharing on a deltic will pull the two engines to the same speed, hence exhaust frequency, and the phasing will be transparent. I reckon your single decoder is the right thing for this loco, especially with your private use in a sloping roof room. This beat difference is most apparent when you run a consist of dissimilar steam locos. Different driving wheel sizes result in different chuff rates, so they run into and out of sync periodically, which shows a reality in the representation. Do you have chuff sensors on any of your steam decoders?
I don't think I have chuff sensors as such Tom but I do have chuff rates I can alter. I had quite a debate going on my video when I put sound into my Silver Fox A4, it is supposed to be set to chuff 6 chuffs per rev of the driving wheels, the problem I had was that to me it seemed to be far to quick even though it was correct to real thing. I changed it to being only 3 chuffs per revolution. incredibly non prototypical but to me (and most of the people that commented) it appeared to be more realistic. I'm not at all a train person and have very little knowledge of trains and railways so I just have things the way I like them whether they are correct or not. ;-) ............Graham
I think the future is looking good for sound, it's obviously not to everyones taste at the moment but for me I'm happy with having the sound which is available to us today - it is only a representation after all - just like everything else. ;-) .........Graham
I have a Howes fitted A3 which is quite good. I have a number of TTS steam locos, which, while not bad, were greatly improved by replacing the speakers with Sugar Cubes. The speaker can make a real difference. I wonder what they would sound like through my Tannoy monitor speakers.
Well Mr Foulston, it obviously worked as even the wife said the first one was just noise but the second one sounded like a train. I agree with her comments, the new speaker and sound card made a major difference. On another note saw these today and thought that maybe you could opaint one up to look like yours and put it outside the model house www.scalemodelscenery.co.uk/shop/noch-15910-scooters-riders-pack-of-3/?v=79cba1185463
Well if the wife said it sounded more like a train then that'll do for me!! lol. I do have my scoot on the layout mate, you probably just missed it that's all, I painted it the same colour as my real scoot and I have it with a mini me just coming out of the drive from my cottage, if you take a look here: ua-cam.com/video/Zg65g9MKQm0/v-deo.html at about 3:40 into the video (to save you time watching it all) then you'll see it. ;-) ..........Graham
Thats what i thought too..of the wife says its better it must be lol. Seen the video must have missed it before but then its a quick shot of it. Should have known you would have already done it..you could of course have a "mod" rally in the village lol.
Oh OK, can you recommend the speaker that I should use then please and a link to where I would get it from. Have you a link to your layout where you are using this speaker I should put in just so I could get an idea of what it sounds like?
Hmm, I don,t think you are going to like me very much Graham but that sound for me is too throaty, I know I said that I am not really in to sound that much but my own personal choice is something maybe a bit crisper or cleaner if that makes sense, but the most important thing off all is as long as you are happy then that,s all that really matters, I do hope that you are not offended in any way....sorry Mate.
How can I be offended by a constructive opinion John, to be honest (and this will sound very strange coming from someone who is building a model railway) but I've never heard a Deltic in real life and to be honest I've not heard many trains in real life apart from the modern ones running through my village - I'm just not into real trains. Sound on model railways is a very emotive subject (as you know), what suits one person doesn't suit another but I agree with what you say, as long as I am happy then that's the best I can hope for and I am very happy with what I have now. You take care mate and hope all is ok your end. ............Graham
Thank you, thank god we are still on speaking terms, as you say Loco sounds can be a very emotive subject especially when someone like yourself wears their heart on their sleeve to bring so much help, information and enjoyment to people like myself and others in this weired and wonderful hobby of model railways, things are not so bad this end, still struggling with some health issues so I have taken sometime away from my layout, before dismantling my last layout things were running pretty good and now that I have slowed right down and being extra careful with this layout I am having nothing but derailments going over points and I simply do not know why, so as you have often said to me take a break, walk away and come back to it another day, I have some new points coming next week so I hope to get back to it very soon, take care my friend and I hope to speak to you soon....John
You have done exactly the right thing John by walking away from it, you will get there my friend, slowly and surely it will develop but don't let the bugger drive you down which it can do, I have never known such a frustrating hobby as model railways. I was with a friend the other day and we had been running the layout for about half an hour with no issues whatsoever, one of the trains had been running for all that time and suddenly it derailed for absolutely no reason - why? There was nothing to suggest why it derailed - a totally mystery but we both just shrugged our shoulders and had a laugh about it - it's just what they do I guess! lol. And don't be daft, of course we're still on speaking terms!! ;-) ...........Graham
Over the years I have seen thousands of video's on model trains. This was absolutely the first time I really enjoyed the sound effect.
Blimey, thank you for your very kind comment and pleased that you enjoyed it. ...........Graham
The difference in sound is awesome mate, so much deeper sound, definitely a worthwhile conversion and well done for taking this one on and sharing, cheers Dazza
Yeah, I think this was well worth doing Dazza considering the end result, at least it now gives folk another choice if they want to do it this way or not. ...........Graham
Hi Graham, what a difference between the two. It's great when a project comes together especially if it's a little daunting at first. Grand job. Susannah
Brings back memories of sitting on New Street Station with my train spotting book!!How sad,not even Maria knows I used to do that as a lad!
Great videos again, waiting to see your locos coming out of the tunnel is just magic,so much so I am just building two tunnel portals to go on the incline on our layout in a long hillside tunnel .You are so right when you said to me not to fix anything down as I keep changing things
top job as usual
Craig
Many thanks Craig and like you I love watching (and hearing) the trains coming out of that tunnel - especially this Deltic - lovely. ;-) I tend to build a few things and live with them for a while before finalising anything, that way it gives you a chance to change your mind about that perfect position you thought you had ! lol. Don't worry about the train spotting thing mate - I won't say a thing to her about it - not even on Facebook! ;-) ..........Graham
Wonderful, love the scene of her coming out of the shed. I just remember these locos before the HSTS arrived. Cheers Jerry
Glad you like the sound Jerry, that speaker makes it sound so much different with that deeper rumble. ..........Graham
Oh my, yes, that does sound good. So deep, so powerful. Well done, the effort was worth it. Rob
Many thanks Rob, I'm really pleased with that final outcome of the sound, it was a little scary at times when doing the cutting as I could see I was getting nearer and nearer to the limit but luckily I din't screw up and the speaker fitted (just) into the new opening. I'm glad you like the sound, that's the main thing. Thank you. .........Graham
Took me back to Doncaster station in the 60's and 70's, as the overnight Deltic hauled train, pulled alongside the platform. I think you can call that a result, lovely sound.
Thanks Ian, I know you used to be on the Deltic hauled trains and so your thoughts and memories of the comparison were important - glad you liked the sound. ............Graham
Graham my hearing is knackered but my friend that was worth every minute of pain . Thanks for posting . Regards Gav .
Blimey Gavin, sorry that you have pain with your hearing, what a horrible thing to have to put up with but glad you enjoyed this all the same. ;-) ............Graham
Stunning Graham. Now that is what you call true representation of the real thing. Cheers, Bob (a few minutes from the ECML)
Thank you Bob - maybe you should tell that to zardoz2 then! lol. .........Graham
You've given that motor some balls, sounds fantastic
LOL. You speak my language Steve, I couldn't have said it better myself! ;-) ............Graham
hi graham , so reminds me of trainspotting at finsbury park watching the deltics coming thru the tunnel form hornsey station on their way to kings cross.
circa 1962/4 when i was 10 years old
very realistic sounds mate just right on my memories of those golden days
cheers
mick
Well that's excellent mate, it may not be totally realistic if there was one standing next to you right now but if it can evoke memories of the sound of years gone by then we're more than halfway there - that's the way I look at it. ;-) ...........Graham
Wow just wow sound like it's got a heartbeat now, great job pal you will enjoy this and use it more now I bet.
Absolutely Dave, it's given it a new lease of life. ;-) ..............Graham
Another great result. Well done, love the throaty roar!
Thanks Greg, I don't think it's quite as good as Andy's but with just the one speaker instead of two then it's come out a lot better than what I had previously, I'm pleased with the result. ..........Graham
It does sound really good well done
Can't wait to see it running again
Thank you and hopefully it wont be long before it's running again. ............Graham
Graham i did see the vibrating fuel tanks, also the number on the loco
IE10 on the front and a different number on the back IN03 and on the side D9008
i'm am confused? Please explain cheers Robert
Hi Robert, the D9008 number is the loco number (pre TOPS where they renumbered them) and the two end numbers and letters are what I believe are destination or route codes, I have never understood how they work but I'm sure there are many folk on hear who would know. ............Graham
Thanks Graham
csxmad
You will find a good explanation in Wikipedia: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_reporting_number
Since the code on the end of the loco depends on the (last) destination, they will be different, (unless the train went forwards to one destination, and then only went backwards, until finally it ran the same service to that same destination at the same time of day "backwards", which is most unlikely)
You will find it a challenge to light the head code evenly, hence the move to the domino codes simplifies the modelling task.
In comparison, the article on TOPS (en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOPS) is not so useful, and the pre-grouping (for steam) and pre-TOPS (for diesel) are quite a challenge and require detailed knowledge.
Regards, Tom
Thanks Tom will check this out cheers Robert
Stunning Graham , fabulous sounds from a fabulous loco . Well worth the effort .
.........Peter
Glad you like it Peter, I certainly do and it was worth the work fitting it in, I will see if I can grab some time from doing all my other chores and do a proper running session of it. ..........Graham
Watched it again with my hearing aids in this time , it's even better !
.......Peter
Eating aids - that's different, I'll have to give that a try, personally I think you might have been better off putting your hearing aids in instead !! lol. It is Friday night so I'll let you off! ;-) ...........Graham
Oh eck , one glass of red with my tea .
One glass of red for you tea is fine Peter - as long as you didn't pour it in your ear of course! lol. .........Graham
Hi Graham Great sounds it captures that deltic hum really well it takes me back to Doncaster station many moons ago great action shots as well .......Paul
Cheers Paul, yes a few people have mentioned Doncaster where they have seen (and heard!) them, I never did unfortunately but it must have been an amazing sight. ...........Graham
Excellent result sounds just as I remember the sound of them pulling out of Peterborough station in the 70's.
Many thanks Neil, yes I'm really happy with the sound of this, disregarding the cost of the decoder as I would have got that anyway then the cost was only about £23 so very worthwhile I think. .........Graham
Hi Graham,I just bought a front plate for my class 55004 from fox transfers item No HB300 which is shaped like a pair of wings with a Scottish Thistle in the centre,I fitted it today and it looks great as I got a picture of one on the net.Fox transfers do other ones for the class 55.If you get time have a look and tell me what you think,I just wanted to tell you about these plates that you can fit on the front of the class 55 as there might be one that you could get for You're's.Regards,Jim.
OK James, thanks for that, I'll have a look at them - cheers buddy and much appreciated. ..........Graham
Very impressive indeed. Heard them on latest BRM freebie DVD, your sound comparison comes over much better. Great stuff. ... David
I saw (and heard) that too David, pure coincidence that I was doing this at the same time as the mag came through the door! I'm very pleased with the sound though, certainly a lot better than I had before. .............Graham
The sound is brilliant Graham.
Thanks Nigel and I have to admit that I'm really pleased with the outcome of it. .............Graham
Wow! definitely worth the effort you went through. well done!
Many thanks Jose and I agree, it was worth the effort when you hear the sound at the end. ;-) ........Graham
Thats a cracking sound, deep. U really can c the vibration lol!!! Looks n now sounds fab :)
Thanks Matthew, it's nice to hear the Deltic sound more like it should do. ;-) ............Graham
This must surely be the best available - I was using headphones, and the low speed is like listening to / watching a real Deltic. Thoroughly impressed - I'd use this in your opening credits (or whatever, they're called) - lovely sound. Alan.
Thanks Alan and much appreciated mate - nice idea about the credits thing I might have a go at that. Thanks. ..........Graham
awesome!! that noise when she pulls away. just awesome!!
Cheers Tom and glad you like the new sound, I'm really pleased with it. ...........Graham
Awesome video,Keep it up!
Thanks buddy, much appreciated. ............Graham
now that sounds like a deltic!!! great job there Graham!
It's not bad is it mate? I'm over the moon with the way this has come out. ...........Graham
Brilliant..worth the 26 minutes of the first episode!
Yes, sorry about the length of that first one but I need that time to explain everything, any shorter then I knew I would get a load of questions because I wouldn't have covered them. This one I have made nice and short to compensate. ;-) ...........Graham
Nice finished sounding loco with a lovely rake of green coaches.
Thank you John, yes this has come out looking and sounding lovely. .............Graham
Fantastic deep rumble, you can imagine the power !!
You certainly can mate and I think that's the best we can hope for on our OO gauge model locos. ..........Graham
Okay, the second vid...Wow...Great rumbling sound. You have done well my friend...Very well indeed. Regards, Solomon
Thank you Solomon and glad you like it, it was an enjoyable little job to do with a great end result which is what matters. ...........Graham
OMG what a beast that Deltic sound's now Graham ....the way it was meant to !
Yes mate, this has made all the difference to the model - quite a remarkable change in the sound. ...........Graham
Amazing sound quality Graham. All you need now is the realistic twin smoke plumes so characteristics of a Deltic on full chat!
Thanks for that Darren and yes that would would look great wouldn't it, I have seen it done on both O gauge and OO gauge, the O gauge Deltic looked the better of the two as it had a fan assisted smoke generator fitted, it looked totally awesome. ..........Graham
I can feel the vibration from here I The deep rumble sounds very good all in all quite a realistic sound. You will have a job bettering it for sure. As it came from the shed you could see the speakers throb.. Great sound mate........
Thank you Stuart, yes it was actually making the shed vibrate as it sat there at idle, you can also see the chain on the water crane moving too as it was sat at the platform - it certainly has some punch to the sound now and has that lovely low rumble - lovely! ;-) Glad you enjoyed it mate. ...........Graham
My ears! My ears! ;-) Wow - an immediately noticeable and improved difference. You can indeed see the speaker cones vibrating with the roar. Sounds proper now Graham. The diesel sound previously was tinny by comparison. Well done mate.
Hehe, glad you like it Davie, I certainly do and I think the work to get there was worth it. It sounds to me a lot clearer too and not so much of a mash of sounds which I think is more down to the speaker than the SWD sound file but I'm still pleased I went for the Legomanbif decoder though. ...........Graham
And I'm sure you could still use the older stuff in another diesel and no one (well, only certain people!) would know it was from a Deltic. As you say, and I agree, your layout, your rules. Great quick conversion and no tears before bedtime with cutting very close to the edge of the existing body work. Great job mate.
Thanks buddy and much appreciated. ............Graham
OMG, speechless mate, even listening through the TV speakers you can hear the difference in the deeper tones, that is purely amazing Graham, it was even deeper than the rift from "The Chain" by Fleetwood Mac :0)
EDIT - Going back to the house to listen to this through the sub-woofer so I can get the complete experience...
I hope that nothing fell off the walls!! lol. Did you spot the chain on the water crane at the end of the platform vibrating!! ;-) ..............Graham
Nothing fell off the walls, but it did make Debbie climb them lol. Yea I saw the water tower chain as it reminded me that I'm waiting for the Dapol GWR DCC water tower, but I didn't notice it vibrating, damn now you've got me needing to go back and watch it again, and Debbies only just got climbed back down from the walls and settled on the sofa lol :0)
Great sound, very impressive improvement. Cheers Andy :-)
Thanks Andy, I'm totally happy with it, a big improvement on what I had before. ...........Graham
Wow that sounds amazing Graham, That EM2 speaker really makes a difference ....James.
Thanks James, it certainly makes a difference doesn't it James - well worth the effort I think. ............Graham
Just an off--topic aside, I love how the exit from the helix has the coaches straight before they come out of the tunnel. Well worth the extra few inches in the dark so that the train is still running straight (apparently) after it completes the tunnel section.
Not many people have noticed that Tom but yes, I didn't want to see coaches coming through that tunnel mouth on a bend showing their 'ends' - it just wouldn't have looked right. ..........Graham
that's a big difference mate sounds great nice and deep not so tinny
Absolutely mate, that's my take on it too, glad you like the sound. ;-) ...........Graham
very nice graham love the sound on the deltic
Thanks Glen and glad you like it mate. ............Graham
Crikey that's got some wellie !!! Probably scared those poor buggers on the platform LOL. Great T-shirt too !!
Hehe, thanks Scott, thought you might like that! ;-) Yep, I think that woke a few of those up waiting on the platform for their early commute! lol. The Tee Shirt was a present for my 65th along with a loco a few years back and I love it. ...........Graham
Hi Graham deltic sounds brilliant that's one of my favourite locomotives ps nice to see you back doing train stuff
Thank you Anthony and pleased you enjoyed it. Yes, I managed to grab a day or two of doing some train stuff but will be back doing other non train related things on the weekend but I'm sure I will be back doing more train stuff soon - I can't keep away from it for too long! ;-) ...........Graham
Graham Foulston she sounds fantastic
Cheers Paul, much appreciated mate. .............Graham
fantastic sound Graham wow
the sound is amazing in the 55. just wish i was not so much work to fit this speaker in most locos!!
It is a bit of a pain Matt but worth the effort I think. How did things go with Dapol the other day? .........Graham
Nice one Graham ! The only way to do the king of the diesels justice. I really like what you've done,I really couldn't have the Deltic any other way myself,the only thing missing is the clag !
Thanks Andy. I'm now seriously thinking and working on the clag. I have the old ESU powered smoke fan generator from my O gauge Class 50 sitting doing nothing - mmm, it has me thinking. Now that I have this part working then I could be very tempted to giving this a go, it's finding the room for it. ...........Graham
Graham Foulston well I truly think it's worth it with this sound, just imagine the start up in the shed ...terrific !
Andy
I can imagine it mate - it would be awesome wouldn't it!! ..........Graham
They sound good Graham , did see this when Andy Byrne 50 showed his last week ..best deltic sound I have heard from a 00 gauge ..Dave
Absolutely Dave and I put a link to his video in my previous video (Part 1). Andy has two of these speakers in his Deltic which DC Kits fitted for him, I opted for the one speaker under the fuel tanks but now I know what's involved I may end up fitting two in the top like Andy has got and end up with three speakers and two decoders - a massive job to do but should prove interesting if nothing else! ...........Graham
Graham Foulston missed that , but was considering having mine changed at Leeds with dc kits , maybe nearer the winter season .. Dave
Good idea Dave, I don't know how much they charge for the conversion of either the one speaker or two speaker/two decoder set up is but I'm sure if you contact Andy then he will be able to tell you how much it cost. ............Graham
Hi Graham and Dave, as i am one of their frequent customers that i was told by Legomanbiffo and their very good man official custom sound fitter; Merlin DCC, the standard cost for 1 sound decoder and EM2 conversion plus fitting is around £195 and less than that about £175 for v4, EM1 fitting . But that is just approx when i and Andy Huggins bought ours. So therefore to partake the "Atomic option" of two EM2's and 2 decoders fitted that might well be double cost ? Although check that with them first. Either way i wish i had deep pockets or nimble fingers to do the unspeakable of 2 in the chassis and 1 bass reflex in the tanks !! LOL. 😉
Tim.
Ill tell you what Graham im almost converted to sound. Im a big fan of the class 55 great British engineering and yours sounds the real thing.
The added bonus with a sound decoder is that it's normally a much better quality decoder too - well that's what I have found anyway. You don't have to go mad and do all the locos, just pick a couple of your favourites to begin with and have some fun with them and if you get fed up with the sound after a while then you can just turn it off, I do that quite often. You will soon find out if sound is for you or not. As you know - it's not everyones cup of tea and I can appreciate that, each to there own as they say. ;-) ...........Graham
I get that Graham it was as much the cost than anything else and of course you are right in saying that not all my Locos need sound but as the quality is getting better and more powerful decoders coming to the fore its a good time for to bite the bullet.
I think you're absolutely right Mark, the cost is of course a major factor to think about which on average works out to about £100+ per decoder. Good luck with your choice and if you do get something then let me know and if you put a video up of it then let me know that too. ...........Graham
I'm one of the lucky ones to have heard this "live"......x
Yay!! Welcome aboard Ray, great to see you on here. Yes, you are one of the privileged few, I hope the cheque is in the post to me - obviously for £1.00. ;-) ............Graham
Graham Foulston I gave Hazel a £1 coin !!!!
OK, I'll go and check with finance dept. ;-)
thats one hell of an awesome sound.takes me back to the old east coast main line in her hay days. i must Finnish paying for my NCB power cab and convert its no good.
and now i can blame it all on you to the wife graham lol
You go ahead and blame me Paul, I'm quite used to that as I get the blame for everything in this bloody house anyway so it's not a problem! lol. Glad you enjoyed the sound mate, I know I do! ;-) ..........Graham
Fabulous sound, well done.
Thank you very much Philip, that speaker certainly made a difference!! lol. .............Graham
That sounds so good, those speakers really make a difference. I used to have 3, 00 gauge deltics, 2 with basic speakers and one with a full base reflex speaker in the fuel tank like yours. The difference between them was massif, but I think the difference between the base reflex one I had and your new em2 one is as big a difference.I am going to get sound in my 0 gauge deltic I hope to be impressed by the sound from that but after hearing yours it has a lot to look up to. I wonder what 2 of those em2's would sound like side by side?
Robin
Hi Graham. I watched the installation film with a great deal of interest. The result....well, phenomenal ! But (and I have to voice this opinion) these auxiliary base radiator speakers are too loud for the relatively small ambient space and distances involved on a 4mm scale layout. To exploit them you really need a huge area, otherwise with a number of them going at the same time everyone is going to be deafened. Yes, I know you can turn the volume down (and they will probably still 'shake' the atmosphere) if you do - but it may well become uncomfortable ! The video expertly showed the Deltic in glorious close up, and I was more than able to believe with this sound that I was looking at an 'O' or '1' gauge offering pulling away outdoors - which would have been dead right. For 'OO' scale, though, (and this is simply my opinion) I do think for the distances involved on the average size layout these remarkable sounds, rumbles and other bass noises are just a little over the top - how about trying one in your 7mm class 57 ?.................Reinhard
Hi Reinhard and thank you once again for your very informative comment. As you know I do like hearing sound on my locos but I for one cannot have a prolonged time of the sound - it drives me round the bend if it's too loud and goes on for too long. I do understand what you are saying - 100% but this video was really to show it's potential rather than it's normal running sound which I have turned down already to suit me. The other thing which needs to be taken into account is that at some stages in that video I was about 6" away from the Deltic and so the front facing mic was getting it full in the face. My problem (as with most of my videos these days) is that I have to try and please literally thousands of people and I can guarantee that if I had turned the sound down then I would have had many comments saying that it was too soft and didn't reflect that Deltic rumble. I find it increasingly more difficult these days to get a video where it suits everyone and to legislate for everyones taste is impossible. I know you are not complaining about the video - just that the noise would be too much in a small environment which I whole heartedly agree with which is why this Deltic of mine is now turned down for my own use. My Class 50 7mm uses a 2" speaker in a massive sound enclosure - now that is loud with fabulous base to it and would make this Deltic sound pathetic by comparison. ;-) ............Graham
Hi Graham, as usual, you and I agree 100% and of course it's difficult to 'do' a video to suit everyone! I guess my re-action was overstated - I just get p****d off with the "Pink Floyd in a garden shed" brigade! Out of interest - Keith has an '0' gauge Deltic - I'll encourage him to allow me to film it - All the best, Reinhard
"the "Pink Floyd in a garden shed" brigade" lol. Love that expression. ;-) Ooh yes, I think we need to see that O gauge Deltic without a shadow of doubt = what a beast that must be. ..........Grahm
Just catching up with your videos mate that's Awesome sound 👍👍
Many thanks Graeme and pleased you like the sound mate. ;-) ...........Graham
Superb some difference in the sound
Thanks Kevin and it's certainly a lot better than what I had before and worth the effort. .........Graham
Brilliant sounds Graham, you have definitely made my mind up about the install. Just one question, I noticed when you moved out of the shed at the beginning I could see the speaker vibrating, is there still enough clearance to clear items on the track, such as uncouples or track that has imitation concrete you would see on level crossings or TMD?...Simon
Hi Simon and glad you like the sound. The way it stands at the moment then the speaker cones would no doubt hit uncouplers, not so sure about the concrete but there is a bit more room yet where I can take it a little higher which I will do as it's a little too low for my liking at the moment. There is only a certain amount that the speaker can go up though because of the motor (which obviously can't be moved) but I haven't taken any of the height off the speaker yet which is feasible as it's quite thick - you can see the join line so you can see how thick it is. The only thing you need to be careful of is the small circuit board for the connections to the decoder. Hope that helps. ............Graham
That information does help Graham.
Hi Graham, a completely different machine altogether . Cheers John.
Absolutely John, what with that and the Class 24 then they are now my best sounding diesels - lovely. ;-) .........Graham
Hi,Graham,I think it is much improved and to see the speaker's rumble was good as well as the sound.In model Rc aircraft servo's are being used for point's and signal's and there is a speaker for model aircraft which is fitted inside the fuselage and it points toward's the fuselage side wall they are called Transducer speaker's,They are from HobbyKing you can get bass speaker's and treble speaker's and the sound is very good as I got some and fitted them to one of my planes and it's great.I wonder if this type of speaker through time will be developed to fit in model trains.That way the sound travel's along the inside of the loco and you don't have to cut the loco to fit the speaker,It's just a thought who nose if they could come up with something like that.I loved the video,Best regard's,Jim.
You never know James, things are being developed all the time these days at a rapid rate of knots, only time will tell I guess but I wouldn't be surprised at all of a development whereby the speaker itself is eliminated completely and something digital takes it's place to give the true sound of the recording. ..........Graham
Hi,Graham,Yes I do agree with what you have said and we will have to wait and see what comes out in miniature engineer ing.Regard's.Jim. .
Awesome Graham , sounds better than the one i had done by Olivas Sound. Will send mine to you next time !!!
Cheers Bob, I'm sure you could do this conversion mate, if a clumsy oaf like me can do it then most other folk could too! ;-) .............Graham
Like hearing one of these "take off" from Grantham station in days of yore !! The em2 speaker does Leggomans sound file total justice . Done a good job there Graham . Wonder if anyone out there has "em2'd " a Howes Western file yet ?
If they haven't then I don't think it will be long before they do and many others besides! ;-) ................Graham
Goob job! :) Keep it up!
Thanks mate. ............Graham
I'm well impressed with that graham that prob best loco I've heard for detail sound
I'm impressed with it too Mark, it's an amazing sound for OO gauge. ...........Graham
The engineer in me has to ask how much of this is the speaker, and how much the sound file.
Whilst I'm not asking you to reverse the installation 😉 I do wonder what the SWD decoder would sound like with the EM2 speaker.
Also, for similarity, the test on the rolling road on your workbench is going to have a different response to track on your layout baseboard (or should that read bassboard?).
But I agree, there's a world of difference; the question is where the best bang-per-buck lies?
Regards, Tom
I'm sure the SWD decoder would sound much better with the EM2 speaker in it Tom - I have no doubt about that whatsoever, but I also wanted Legomanbif's sound decoder hence the reason why I got it, I will save money by just getting the SWD decoder re-blown for another loco which I think costs about £12 but not sure on that, certainly a lot cheaper than buying another sound decoder. This was by no means meant to be a scientific experiment carried out in a laboratory - it was just a rough guide. I agree that having it set up on my rolling road will make it sound different (slightly) than on my layout but I know from experience that there is not an awful lot of difference between the two. Disregarding the cost of sound decoder because I would have got that anyway then for approx. £23 for the speaker then I think the bang per buck in my opinion was well worth it. ............Graham
Graham Foulston
Graham, I agree that as a consumer, we should not have to run fully scientific tests to compare all the combinations of sound files and speakers, and for the sound file teams, they don't want to start a "mine is better than yours" war, so there are very few places where such comparisons can be found.
And each sound file will work best with different installations. I don't fancy fitting the EM2 in a Peckett, and I doubt it would be worthwhile.
So for a class 37, this bass speaker may be the best thing, but for a Class 20, the ringing of the cylinders on over-run requires a higher frequency response.
I saw a Deltic run at SVR a couple of weeks ago and felt that the power did cause a good sound, but the high-revving meant that it was smoother and quieter than many other diesels at lower power settings. (It was also running on one engine, but even that was not heavily loaded where I saw it)
So perhaps, as with detailing of everything, research into the prototype is essential, and comparisons, leading to optimal configurations for each loco type, should be requested from the sound suppliers, and rated by public applaud.
And, as you have shown by using the special functions for smoke, we should use the decoders at their best!
Graham,
You've mentioned below that this is a representation of the sound; we would not want to try to generate the real volume of the horns (to be heard over the motor at full chat) or have to produce scenery that mimics the acoustic reflections of the real world (like the echo from a rock face, not least because the time delays would not scale), and I recognise that I'm being picky. This is a great result, and sets the bar for similar modifications. Nice one!👍
You hit the nail on the head Tom and I think that this is a good comparison to use whereby you pick up the right tool to use for the job, this would be the totally wrong speaker to use on a little Peckett, it would need something that would be best to utilise the higher end and not the base which obviously this speaker is designed for. To be fair on DC Kits, they will advise you on the best speaker that goes with the sound file and the loco too. We are sometimes limited in what can be used in different manufacturers locos, a certain speaker may fit in one kind of Class 37 but may not in another version - not without further modifications anyway so even that has to be taken into consideration. Having said that then I knew only too well that before fitting this then this was not going to be a walk in the park by speaking to DC Kits and researching other areas too. But his does make our hobby bloody interesting though! ;-) .........Graham
even the footbridge has moved lol
That footbridge is coming up along with the platforms and track in that area - it is going to be remodelled totally! New platforms, track and points, it's the weakest part of the layout but that's a winter job I think. ..........Graham
It certainly sounds great Graham. I'm with Tom Lawton on the question of how SWD would sound through that EM2 speaker. But the biggest mystery to me is how that speaker actually works! It cannot be as simple as the two cones operating in opposition simultaneously as that would simply attenuate the sound much as a speaker without a baffle does. There must be some cunning trickery inside the box that enhances the sound rather like a bass reflex enclosure does. I spent my working life in electronics, some of it in audio, and I hold up my hands and say I have no idea! I have heard many people praising Legomanbiffo sounds. What brand was the sound decoder? I think he uses ESU. ............................John
Yes the decoder is an ESU version 4 John. As regards the workings of the speaker then I have no idea apart from that there are two speakers - one active and one passive with baffles inside a digitally printed enclosure - anything else is way beyond me. Unlike you, I have absolutely no idea about electronics and audio so all I do is act like a consumer - I like what I hear and so buy it and fit it - how it works and how it gets to that end result I leave to the boffins who design them - that's what I pay them for. As I said to Tom, I am sure the SWD decoder would almost certainly sound better with that speaker attached to it but I wanted Legomanbif's sound file in this Deltic and the SWD decoder I can send to DC Kits for a Legomanbif re-blow. .............Graham
It's DC Kits who supply Biff's sound is it? I must check out their website for possible use on North Grove. I usually favour Zimo decoders as they have such great motor performance and control. ESU don't have so much adjustment capability but that is not necessarily a bad thing! .............................John
Yes I have been converted to Zimo over ESU but there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the motor control on this decoder - I always do a CV54 check on ESU decoders which helps a lot on the motor control. ...........Graham
The other good thing about Zimo is their smaller size, I would hate to have to fit an ESU V4 into an 08! .........................John
p.s Is CV54 the auto setup for the motor?
Yes it is John - just change the value to 0 (zero) and press F1 and it tunes the decoder to the motor output. Works a treat for me. ............Graham
Sounds amazing!!!
Cheers mate. ;-) ..........Graham
Certainly has a deeper richer sound Graham,you must be well pleased with the result.
Regards
Bob
I am Bob, very pleased with it, certainly a lot better than it was. ..........Graham
Hi there Graham.
I myself is a big fan and owner of the Earth Mover speaker configuration, from Legomanbiffo since they came out mid last year 2016. I have 2 locos soo far with them inside. I just uploaded my first rather basic and experimental videos of them on my new UA-cam channel, having done so because Andy Huggins's channel (my Dad, who i co- own the layout with, whose on your subscriptions) might not get his better videos up in time to join in the new DCC sound revolutionary fame this brings along with you. 😉 👍Sounding brilliant the Deltic and very brave you are in fitting yourself too. These really do move the earth aswell as the ballast underneath !
P.s does this still have SWD or new Legomanbiffo sound inside ?
Thanks.
Awsome video again! Also great t shirt haha
Thanks Mark and I got the tee shirt for my 65th birthday a few years back. ;-) ..........Graham
not only impressed with the sound but the slow running also
Thanks Stephen and you're right, the slow running is perfect for me, the best part of that video for me was the Deltic hooking up to the coaches - completely controllable. .............Graham
More excellent work Graham, a pleasure to see your work once more. Just one thing though, will you need to reinforce your layout now with ALL that vibrating ? 😂 Good stuff Grahame
Hehe, good point Grahame - that could cause some serious damage, I'm surprised that the speaker doesn't come with a Government health warning! lol. ...........Graham
That's more like it!! I could actually listen to that without wanting to turn it off due to the 'orrible tinny racket they normally make! The sound seems to be deeper and a much lower ear friendly frequency to me.
Yep, it sounds a lot better for me too, the difference is quite amazing which I am sue is mainly due to the speaker and not so much the sound decoder. ............Graham
its almost certainly the speaker rather than the decoder which only transmits signals. Ask any audiophile, after a good amp to drive them, speakers are the most important component in a good hi fi setup.
Agreed. I have decided that I will make a short video where I swap out the two decoders using the same EM2 speaker now that it's fitted to see what difference (if any) there is, I shall do this on the rolling road so they both have the same surroundings - it won't prove anything as such but will show up any differences which folk can then make their own mind up which they prefer. I think it will be just an interesting exercise to do. ............Graham
Good idea Graham, perhaps it will dispel some myths regarding 'good' and 'bad' decoders. The realism of the sound is only as good as the sound file recorded on the decoder rather than the decoder itself. And the actual sound quality is, as we know, down to the speakers.
BTW can I ask, what video camera are you using to record your vids?
I'm building a sci-fi layout shortly similar to Laurie Calverts efforts.
(I have been doing Games Workshop stuff for years, and want to combine my relatively recent newfound interest in trains with my minatures painting hobby).
lovely deep sound :)
It certainly is mate, it was making the TMD shed shake with it's base sitting at idle. ............Graham
sounds the dogs!! great.
Hehe, thanks Dave, glad you like the sound, it sounds great coming out of the tunnel. ;-) ..........Graham
Graham could you let me have the name of Andy's site George only I am bit deaf and can't quite catch it on the video thank's
No worries George, here it is: ua-cam.com/video/LlfHEqDroCw/v-deo.html ..........Graham
Graham Foulston
Graham, yes, most impressive, but with a pair of decoders (presumably paired in a consist) it would be hard to get one engine out of sync to get the beat.
It's not as bad as using a single decoder on a duplex loco (like a Garrett), where the relative beats would probably never be the same from one journey to the next (the phasing depending on wheel-spin, which would be a lottery); at least the load sharing on a deltic will pull the two engines to the same speed, hence exhaust frequency, and the phasing will be transparent. I reckon your single decoder is the right thing for this loco, especially with your private use in a sloping roof room.
This beat difference is most apparent when you run a consist of dissimilar steam locos. Different driving wheel sizes result in different chuff rates, so they run into and out of sync periodically, which shows a reality in the representation.
Do you have chuff sensors on any of your steam decoders?
I don't think I have chuff sensors as such Tom but I do have chuff rates I can alter. I had quite a debate going on my video when I put sound into my Silver Fox A4, it is supposed to be set to chuff 6 chuffs per rev of the driving wheels, the problem I had was that to me it seemed to be far to quick even though it was correct to real thing. I changed it to being only 3 chuffs per revolution. incredibly non prototypical but to me (and most of the people that commented) it appeared to be more realistic. I'm not at all a train person and have very little knowledge of trains and railways so I just have things the way I like them whether they are correct or not. ;-) ............Graham
All thats missing is the kids with lineing paper and wax crayons taking nameplate rubbings , at least thats what i used to do at doncaster lol
Just needs the thick plumes of clag now...Mmmm chewy
I shall work on that and see what happens. ;-) .............Graham
Remarkable difference. Maybe there is a future in sound locos after all.
I think the future is looking good for sound, it's obviously not to everyones taste at the moment but for me I'm happy with having the sound which is available to us today - it is only a representation after all - just like everything else. ;-) .........Graham
I have a Howes fitted A3 which is quite good. I have a number of TTS steam locos, which, while not bad, were greatly improved by replacing the speakers with Sugar Cubes. The speaker can make a real difference.
I wonder what they would sound like through my Tannoy monitor speakers.
Well Mr Foulston, it obviously worked as even the wife said the first one was just noise but the second one sounded like a train. I agree with her comments, the new speaker and sound card made a major difference. On another note saw these today and thought that maybe you could opaint one up to look like yours and put it outside the model house www.scalemodelscenery.co.uk/shop/noch-15910-scooters-riders-pack-of-3/?v=79cba1185463
Well if the wife said it sounded more like a train then that'll do for me!! lol. I do have my scoot on the layout mate, you probably just missed it that's all, I painted it the same colour as my real scoot and I have it with a mini me just coming out of the drive from my cottage, if you take a look here: ua-cam.com/video/Zg65g9MKQm0/v-deo.html at about 3:40 into the video (to save you time watching it all) then you'll see it. ;-) ..........Graham
Thats what i thought too..of the wife says its better it must be lol. Seen the video must have missed it before but then its a quick shot of it. Should have known you would have already done it..you could of course have a "mod" rally in the village lol.
I'm just going off to one in "The City" ! lol.
Nice...enjoy the ride out
Full fat cream all the way G! :)
Love that expression John - brilliant. ;-) ...........Graham
The sound is is not deep enough . try fitting an 8 ohm speaker.
Oh OK, can you recommend the speaker that I should use then please and a link to where I would get it from. Have you a link to your layout where you are using this speaker I should put in just so I could get an idea of what it sounds like?
Hmm, I don,t think you are going to like me very much Graham but that sound for me is too throaty, I know I said that I am not really in to sound that much but my own personal choice is something maybe a bit crisper or cleaner if that makes sense, but the most important thing off all is as long as you are happy then that,s all that really matters, I do hope that you are not offended in any way....sorry Mate.
How can I be offended by a constructive opinion John, to be honest (and this will sound very strange coming from someone who is building a model railway) but I've never heard a Deltic in real life and to be honest I've not heard many trains in real life apart from the modern ones running through my village - I'm just not into real trains. Sound on model railways is a very emotive subject (as you know), what suits one person doesn't suit another but I agree with what you say, as long as I am happy then that's the best I can hope for and I am very happy with what I have now. You take care mate and hope all is ok your end. ............Graham
Thank you, thank god we are still on speaking terms, as you say Loco sounds can be a very emotive subject especially when someone like yourself wears their heart on their sleeve to bring so much help, information and enjoyment to people like myself and others in this weired and wonderful hobby of model railways, things are not so bad this end, still struggling with some health issues so I have taken sometime away from my layout, before dismantling my last layout things were running pretty good and now that I have slowed right down and being extra careful with this layout I am having nothing but derailments going over points and I simply do not know why, so as you have often said to me take a break, walk away and come back to it another day, I have some new points coming next week so I hope to get back to it very soon, take care my friend and I hope to speak to you soon....John
You have done exactly the right thing John by walking away from it, you will get there my friend, slowly and surely it will develop but don't let the bugger drive you down which it can do, I have never known such a frustrating hobby as model railways. I was with a friend the other day and we had been running the layout for about half an hour with no issues whatsoever, one of the trains had been running for all that time and suddenly it derailed for absolutely no reason - why? There was nothing to suggest why it derailed - a totally mystery but we both just shrugged our shoulders and had a laugh about it - it's just what they do I guess! lol. And don't be daft, of course we're still on speaking terms!! ;-) ...........Graham