I love your message in this conversation. You are giving me reassurance that I am not crazy or rogue just because I am not satisfied with status quo church anymore. I desire something more intimate and satisfying. I don’t just want to “put in my time”anymore. I have sat in church for years. I am so very thankful for all that I have learned but I still feel that I am failing at the great commission and sharing my faith. I am looking forward to your future conversations. By the way, so glad you are back on UA-cam! You are a gift to the Body of Christ.
"If the Holy Spirit left the early church, everyone would notice, and 95% of what they did would stop, but in the modern church, almost no one would notice, and 95% of what we do would continue." -A.W. Tozer "A lot of these things are actually hindering the body of Christ." That is spot-on truth and very timely. Thanks Justin & Brooke. Every blessing in Jesus from a fellow shepherd.
I believe God placed this in front of me right when I needed to hear all this. My Church is walking through something unbelievable to my human mind. Our “leaders” won’t answer my questions and I don’t feel this is being handled in a biblical way at all. Thank you for speaking truth and guiding people to go to the Bible for answers. Only God could place this in front of me at a time when it seems our world is being torn apart.
Thank you for sharing. It's comments like this that encourage us to keep going. We have waited and waited to put on content like this and really felt like the Lord said, now is the time. Praying the Lord will guide you with grace through what you are dealing with in your current season. He is faithful, even when human leaders fail us
This was so good!!! I randomly came across this as I felt “hungry” on Sundays but didn’t know exactly how to vocalize it. Man did this help in so many ways!
I totally agree with this! The whole order of a church service I’ve questioned. Crazy!!! More Jesus and Reaching the Lost, discipleship and true change & transformation!!
I have read much of the Bible but never from beginning to end. I am 175 days behind, but i have read more this year than last. I have a devotional that i read daily. So mxany times it speaks to my sit uation. I listen to lots of sermons. I am wanting to be saturated in God's word to displace all the world's lies. I want a discipleship community. I have same church dr ead. I love Jesus. There is a disconnect
Your conclusions are exactly what I have been seeing these past few years. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge." We are the church, not a building. We are to be disciples of Jesus, not blind followers of a man or organization.
THANK YOU. These things have been on mine and my husband's heart for YEARS and yet we're trying to be diligent in a manmade system here in America, knowing how sad it has made us that we are then taking this system overseas and teaching it. Thank you for some more direction as to what we can pray for and do!
Just watched a few of your videos and it's been eye opening. It's been something in my mind for quite some time. I do have a question about how 1 Corinthians 9:14 incorporates into true discipling and outside of the institution of church. Would love to learn more. Thank you and God bless you both.
Excuse the essay. This is a great topic, figuring out solutions to this mess is a challenge. These days you get lukewarm teaching that is appealing to the flesh. The rock concerts make it worse. This describes the charismatic community (mostly). High production quality is not bad either, there is a balance that needs to be found. Many think God is in the room of those rock concerts and it is far from true. A lot of people live in wickedness, some of them are on the worship teams. I was a secular artist, what they think is God’s presence is actually emotional manipulation. If you play the right notes you can fool someone into believing that God is in the room. The reformed community have some great preachers (expositors). The way they handle the word is admirable - the theological depth and precision is unparalleled. But that same strength can be a weakness. They rely too much on doctrine which is important for avoiding heresy. This makes them treat God like an academic study subject. It is not bad but it can cause one to distort who Jesus is (He is a deity, the deity, our Lord to be worshiped and loved). I feel that their faith is very robotic or dead and they believe that the gifts have ceased which is not true. The biggest thing that gets me is the question: are souls getting saved? I do get a lot of backlash for this but I honestly believe that many are not and this includes preachers. Eternal life and eternal death is a weighty matter that must be measured with certainty. This has caused me to teach myself theology and interpretation (exegesis and hermeneutics). God does the equipping - If I am called which I highly doubt, then at least I can be ready. it’s been on my heart for ages and I can’t shake it. Peoples souls are on the line and the weight of it shatters my heart. Thanks for another great episode. Much love from South Africa.
Thanks for your comment, that perfectly illustrates exactly where I am at in my life and my analysis. I did a deep dive of the Bible over the last few years, and subsequently a deep dive of the various types of church, which has now led me here. God‘s timing is odd timing sometimes.
What is the book or name of the author you talked about in this podcast or the one before? I’m trying to go back thru the transcripts and find it? It was about how the church today is setup? UPDATE: Pagan Christianity Frank Viola Found it!!!
As Frank V would say, Pagan Christianity is not a book for everyone. And, it's never to be read as a stand-alone book. It's part of a series. There are 4 books that should be read together to get the full understanding of what he's saying. Many people have inadvertently weaponized this writing because it opens the eyes to things that are very powerful and mostly misunderstood.
No one is drawing the line in the sand by God’s perspective… be in the world but not of them. If people just looked at us, who looks like the world and who doesn’t? Self will, will always trump God’s will in 21st century Christianity, just as it did with law keeping Israelites.
I think it was Dallas Willard who said that the type of disciple your making is directly related to the gospel your preaching. Therefore, it's really no wonder the westernized "church" looks nothing like Jesus.
I’m sorry to hear you say you can’t tell if someone is truly saved until years later if you see fruit in their life. Where is THAT in the Bible? When the Philippian jailer asked Paul what he must do to be saved, Paul told him ‘believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved..’. He didn’t say, but I’ll have to check back and see if you have fruit to really know if you are. That’s adding works on the backend of the gospel of Grace. ‘We’re saved by grace through faith not of our works, lest any man should boast.’ Unfortunately what you said is from an increasing popular (false) message today stemming from Lordship Salvation people. That you only know you’re saved if you prove it with your works or ‘fruit’. So now we have a bunch of Christian ‘fruit inspectors’ that have unwittingly made the simple gospel message a works based gospel that only causes people to doubt their salvation even when they’re fully trusting in Christ alone for their salvation. Yes we need to follow Christ and take up our cross to follow him but that’s a disciples call not a salvation criteria.
I love your message in this conversation. You are giving me reassurance that I am not crazy or rogue just because I am not satisfied with status quo church anymore. I desire something more intimate and satisfying. I don’t just want to “put in my time”anymore. I have sat in church for years. I am so very thankful for all that I have learned but I still feel that I am failing at the great commission and sharing my faith. I am looking forward to your future conversations.
By the way, so glad you are back on UA-cam! You are a gift to the Body of Christ.
Thank you for sharing that. Yes, you are not crazy! Amen! Looking forward to continuing these conversations! 🙌
Same ❤
SO GOOD!! 😭⚔️📖🔥
That intro alone!!! So thankful for you guys doing this podcast! Speaking all the things the Lord’s put on my heart so strongly this year!
"If the Holy Spirit left the early church, everyone would notice, and 95% of what they did would stop, but in the modern church, almost no one would notice, and 95% of what we do would continue." -A.W. Tozer
"A lot of these things are actually hindering the body of Christ." That is spot-on truth and very timely. Thanks Justin & Brooke. Every blessing in Jesus from a fellow shepherd.
Amen! 🙌
I believe God placed this in front of me right when I needed to hear all this. My Church is walking through something unbelievable to my human mind. Our “leaders” won’t answer my questions and I don’t feel this is being handled in a biblical way at all. Thank you for speaking truth and guiding people to go to the Bible for answers. Only God could place this in front of me at a time when it seems our world is being torn apart.
Thank you for sharing. It's comments like this that encourage us to keep going. We have waited and waited to put on content like this and really felt like the Lord said, now is the time. Praying the Lord will guide you with grace through what you are dealing with in your current season. He is faithful, even when human leaders fail us
This was so good!!! I randomly came across this as I felt “hungry” on Sundays but didn’t know exactly how to vocalize it. Man did this help in so many ways!
Amen! So glad it was helpful. You’re definitely not alone! 🙌
I totally agree with this!
The whole order of a church service I’ve questioned.
Crazy!!! More Jesus and Reaching the Lost, discipleship and true change & transformation!!
Amen! 🙌
I have read much of the Bible but never from beginning to end. I am 175 days behind, but i have read more this year than last. I have a devotional that i read daily. So mxany times it speaks to my sit uation. I listen to lots of sermons. I am wanting to be saturated in God's word to displace all the world's lies. I want a discipleship community. I have same church dr ead. I love Jesus. There is a disconnect
Great again we loved it looking forward to the next one Andy and Maria Scotland uk
Thanks! 🙏
This is so good. I am going to listen to it again later! Thank you, thank you!! 🙏
Amen! 🙌
Your conclusions are exactly what I have been seeing these past few years. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge." We are the church, not a building. We are to be disciples of Jesus, not blind followers of a man or organization.
Amen!
THANK YOU. These things have been on mine and my husband's heart for YEARS and yet we're trying to be diligent in a manmade system here in America, knowing how sad it has made us that we are then taking this system overseas and teaching it. Thank you for some more direction as to what we can pray for and do!
Absolutely! You’re not alone 🤍
I completely agree with this 100% how do we find a community thats not a comsumer church??
Just watched a few of your videos and it's been eye opening. It's been something in my mind for quite some time. I do have a question about how 1 Corinthians 9:14 incorporates into true discipling and outside of the institution of church. Would love to learn more. Thank you and God bless you both.
See Also Wayne Jacobsen's books:
-Finding Church
-Beyond Sundays
-So You Don't Want to Go to Church Anymore
"Go get a job!"
So true!
Yes I have read some of his work! Great stuff!
Can we have an episode on Five Fold Ministry? These series are so good
Thanks! Yes we can work on scheduling a talk on that in for sure.
You’re drawing people to yourself and not Jesus 🤯👏🏻
🔥💥🔥👏
You are NOT alone!
Whatever you draw them in with, you draw them in to"
Excuse the essay.
This is a great topic, figuring out solutions to this mess is a challenge. These days you get lukewarm teaching that is appealing to the flesh. The rock concerts make it worse. This describes the charismatic community (mostly). High production quality is not bad either, there is a balance that needs to be found. Many think God is in the room of those rock concerts and it is far from true. A lot of people live in wickedness, some of them are on the worship teams. I was a secular artist, what they think is God’s presence is actually emotional manipulation. If you play the right notes you can fool someone into believing that God is in the room.
The reformed community have some great preachers (expositors). The way they handle the word is admirable - the theological depth and precision is unparalleled. But that same strength can be a weakness. They rely too much on doctrine which is important for avoiding heresy. This makes them treat God like an academic study subject. It is not bad but it can cause one to distort who Jesus is (He is a deity, the deity, our Lord to be worshiped and loved). I feel that their faith is very robotic or dead and they believe that the gifts have ceased which is not true.
The biggest thing that gets me is the question: are souls getting saved? I do get a lot of backlash for this but I honestly believe that many are not and this includes preachers. Eternal life and eternal death is a weighty matter that must be measured with certainty.
This has caused me to teach myself theology and interpretation (exegesis and hermeneutics). God does the equipping - If I am called which I highly doubt, then at least I can be ready. it’s been on my heart for ages and I can’t shake it. Peoples souls are on the line and the weight of it shatters my heart.
Thanks for another great episode. Much love from South Africa.
Well said. Thank you
Thanks for your comment, that perfectly illustrates exactly where I am at in my life and my analysis. I did a deep dive of the Bible over the last few years, and subsequently a deep dive of the various types of church, which has now led me here. God‘s timing is odd timing sometimes.
What is the book or name of the author you talked about in this podcast or the one before? I’m trying to go back thru the transcripts and find it? It was about how the church today is setup?
UPDATE:
Pagan Christianity Frank Viola
Found it!!!
Yes that’s it! Thanks for the reminder I will have to out the reference in the description
As Frank V would say, Pagan Christianity is not a book for everyone. And, it's never to be read as a stand-alone book. It's part of a series. There are 4 books that should be read together to get the full understanding of what he's saying. Many people have inadvertently weaponized this writing because it opens the eyes to things that are very powerful and mostly misunderstood.
Pastors, Go get a job. Love it. 🎉
Go get a job...🎯❤️
Difficult to get someone to understand something if their paycheck is dependent upon not understanding.
Truth! 👏
John Crist did similar a few years ago
Hi what does your t shirt say.?
Hey! It says Jesus is Offensive. A good friend of mine makes them. www.Jesusisoffensive.com
Jesus is offensive, He is at times…
No one is drawing the line in the sand by God’s perspective… be in the world but not of them. If people just looked at us, who looks like the world and who doesn’t? Self will, will always trump God’s will in 21st century Christianity, just as it did with law keeping Israelites.
I think it was Dallas Willard who said that the type of disciple your making is directly related to the gospel your preaching.
Therefore, it's really no wonder the westernized "church" looks nothing like Jesus.
I’m sorry to hear you say you can’t tell if someone is truly saved until years later if you see fruit in their life. Where is THAT in the Bible? When the Philippian jailer asked Paul what he must do to be saved, Paul told him ‘believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved..’. He didn’t say, but I’ll have to check back and see if you have fruit to really know if you are. That’s adding works on the backend of the gospel of Grace. ‘We’re saved by grace through faith not of our works, lest any man should boast.’ Unfortunately what you said is from an increasing popular (false) message today stemming from Lordship Salvation people. That you only know you’re saved if you prove it with your works or ‘fruit’. So now we have a bunch of Christian ‘fruit inspectors’ that have unwittingly made the simple gospel message a works based gospel that only causes people to doubt their salvation even when they’re fully trusting in Christ alone for their salvation.
Yes we need to follow Christ and take up our cross to follow him but that’s a disciples call not a salvation criteria.