I fired a client today, she kept rejecting the design s , but wouldn't explain what it is she wanted, and wouldn't read my mails and just write the most ridiculous remarks... i feel like i got out of prison with this
I just called it quits with a Toxic Client and it reminded me of this video. Sacrificing the money was not nice but it was worth it, remember no amount of money can give you your sanity or peace of mind back, you can put up with a client for only so long but set boundaries and know when to let go.
Had to do this recently. If the client doesn't fit, then it's best to quit. Few things I've noticed: 1) Never been able to turn a "problematic" client into a happy one. They either like the work from the beginning or micromanage a project to death. They take up ALL of your time and destroy your earning potential. 2) The projects from problematic clients are rarely portfolio worthy. Good clients hire you because they like your work and your unique outlook on a creative problem. They have notes that make the project better. The idea of "the customer is always right" is completely wrong when it comes to customized creative work.
Couldn't agree more...important to feed the soul and nothing better than music to do that! Yes, qualifying clients prior to working with them is so important - something I could improve on. Thanks futur!
I’m an engineer. Not a creative, but I still feel this to my core: when a client makes changes for the 4th time post-contract and they complain about you “nickel and diming” them, you tell them that you don’t work for free…
A client said she wanted things done her way, I said to her, it won’t work that well if you insist on your way. But she insisted anyway. Later she complained to me : Oh, why I feel it’s not working? So sad. I told her if you hire someone, you need to trust them, or else don’t bother. Can’t help you to solve your problem if you don’t have full trust. She didn’t say anything, I really didn’t want to work with her anymore. 2 days later, she said Oh, my daughter really liked it, can we continue working on the project? I said yes, but we need to figure out some problems between us first, and come to an agreement. She disappeared after that. 😓 red flags everywhere.
Augusto T all you have to do is ask and I’ll tell you. They were bad clients because they didn’t know what they wanted and didn’t value my time. A client literally said “I asked my wife and daughter and they didn’t like it. Can’t you just keep making more ideas?” In another situation, the client applauded after we presented. 2 days later they said they were underwhelmed. In both cases what they ended up with was garbage. So they got what they paid for and deserved. It all worked out. Not everyone is deserving of your talent.
@@thefutur I can relate with the first experience. It's so similar to what happened to me. In my case, it was a web design and development project. It was a portfolio for an Architect. At a certain point of the process, in the final stages to be precise, he came to me and said something like "You've done a great job. I know we're about to finish the project but I'd like to discuss some changes. I showed the project to my son and these are the changes he believes will improve it". I remember I wasn't sure if either I couldn't breathe or talk after that. What's worse is that I couldn't afford to do what Chris did because the mister is a friend of my boss... *sigh*
Hi Chris, I don't know of you'll see this since the video is from a while back but the content is evergreen & important for every designer . A lot of people will have to experience this at some point to grow. Mine was this year, a client kept changing their mind and wasting my time. They would agree then say a few days later they don't like it because their siblings don't like it. They would contact me at odd hours and I decided to pull the plug. I emailed & called them and said we weren't a good fit and I'd be refunding her the down-payment even though in my terms it's non refundable (but I just wanted to move on) . The client refused and said they don't believe in refunds, they asked if I could connect them with another designer. I sent the client a couple of designers but informed them of the clients nature because I didn't want to send them in blind. The client ended up working with one and I thought all was well. Two and a half months down the line they send an email that they changed their mind and want the money back. This threw me way off and I was shocked. I had been informed by a person we knew mutually that the client had already begun to use my work and had test samples. I was dismayed . What would be the best way to handle this, make it clear that the refund offer is off the table or give it to them despite knowing they've already started using my work commercially but would like you to believe that's not the case. Thank you in advance for reading this lengthy comment. Your videos have helped me to identify problematic clients and say no to avoid such problems in the first place.
I find it so hard to believe that a client would give someone as cheerful as Chris a hard time. But then again, if I knew Chris was going to pay to me leave, maybe I should give him a hard time :oD
Amazing video. I still have a request for a new one. On how to identify flaws on your process or how to know when you are making mistakes. Techniques to improve workflow or to become a better designer in the production world not business of design. Since personally as a freelance designer I feel stuck and overwhelmed in so many ways. That would definitely help. Thanks!
Jose Ocampos Experience. It’s as simple as that. You can make a logo in 5 minutes but compare that to a logo made in the same amount of time by someone who has been doing it for 25 years. Repetition. Practice. Failure and Success. Repetition being the most important.
A client that I worked 14 months with just quit our relationship LOL because they couldn’t understand how I wasn’t able to do stuff in one hour any more 😁 they also couldn’t understand why I got so loud about their late payments.
I like this video BUT it feels incomplete. ...How can we do this? how can we stop a relationship that is not working for us? What do we need to say and not to say?
just tell the client, "i don't think it's in our best interest to continue working together. i don't think i can give you what you are asking for. so i think it's best if we go our separate ways. I'll refund the remaining balance. i wish you well."
Great information as usual! I have some low paying clients that I want to fire, but they've been with me since I started my business. How should I handle that? Refer them out?
What would be the first step to firing a client? How would you take the approach that could possibly erupt in physical confrontation (not that I mind should it come to it) but to also have them understand from a business point of view?
Letting go of a client is the last step. The first step is qualifying them properly, because if they were qualified to work with you then you would never have to let them go in the first place. You technically don't fire them, you just help them move on by connecting them with others who might be able to solve their problems. If you complete some work, and they're constantly not satisfied then you have explain to them that it's not a good fit for either of you and just recommend another designer. Don't send them an invoice, and don't let them use the work. This saves a lot of time and money for everyone.
The statement Chris made on 1:11. How do you avoid the client suing you regardless of the full refund on the basis of time wasted and money loss? Meaning that they can take you to court and say "We wasted all of this time with you as an agency which equated to hundreds of thousands of dollars lost when we could of hired someone else to get the job done"?
We worked for Grupo Modelo, in mexico but their working culture and expectations were crazy, they didnt deliver the source materials for weeks then it was incomplete, then expected next day delivery of the finished project (website, app, photoshoot, spot advertisement, poster design for big promo campaign), needless to say we fired and banned them from the agency because they wanted us back we sent a formal letter to the regional director and everything basically severing any ties
neuemage Meeting for the first-time with a potential client is a very important phase of each project you take on - this meeting or consultation can either start the project off on the right foot, or help you to avoid taking on a client or project that is not a good fit for you.
Well the deal is it wasnt the first gig we did for them, we worked together for 4 years (benchmarking, mystery shopper, surveys,focus groups, price elasticity, etc ) then suddenly they named a new marketing director (and he still is there)
But what about downpayment, I hear you saying refund money in full. But if you started working and made progress. That is alot of energy and time and custom design that will be wasted. I rather end it with the Client and still have something to fall back on for this wasted relationship.
I always wonder if this is part of the sustaining member class or something? I find that a lot of the content in this class speech really help, anyone knows where I can find more information?
jmac2050 first: it was about a video. Second: they money usually still comes from the client. If in this case not, they're a big company, not one man, so they have the resources
RSVDCN. U not saying anthing really. He's just trying to project big business image. U can drink the Kool Aid if u like. It don't take team to do logo work, maybe, it takes a team to work with mutiple different clients simultaneously. U can have an architect and a engineer draw up prints for 5k - 10k tops, and they also work with a staff.
What do you mean "draw some pictures"? You would have to know the full scope of the project and who it was being done for to determine whether 50k is BS. I was shocked the first time one of my peoples told me what he can make in a day doing motion graphics
I fired a client today, she kept rejecting the design s , but wouldn't explain what it is she wanted, and wouldn't read my mails and just write the most ridiculous remarks... i feel like i got out of prison with this
I just called it quits with a Toxic Client and it reminded me of this video. Sacrificing the money was not nice but it was worth it, remember no amount of money can give you your sanity or peace of mind back, you can put up with a client for only so long but set boundaries and know when to let go.
Had to do this recently. If the client doesn't fit, then it's best to quit. Few things I've noticed: 1) Never been able to turn a "problematic" client into a happy one. They either like the work from the beginning or micromanage a project to death. They take up ALL of your time and destroy your earning potential. 2) The projects from problematic clients are rarely portfolio worthy. Good clients hire you because they like your work and your unique outlook on a creative problem. They have notes that make the project better. The idea of "the customer is always right" is completely wrong when it comes to customized creative work.
Definetly agree, the quality of my work started improving after the moment i accepted quality clients only!
Couldn't agree more...important to feed the soul and nothing better than music to do that! Yes, qualifying clients prior to working with them is so important - something I could improve on. Thanks futur!
I’m an engineer. Not a creative, but I still feel this to my core: when a client makes changes for the 4th time post-contract and they complain about you “nickel and diming” them, you tell them that you don’t work for free…
I'm a fashion designer, I go through this sometimes, Clients think that if they add things after the contract that its still the same price
I've dealt with clients like that and I've wished I had all the money they paid me to just refund it in full... Bye, Felicia
A client said she wanted things done her way, I said to her, it won’t work that well if you insist on your way.
But she insisted anyway.
Later she complained to me : Oh, why I feel it’s not working? So sad.
I told her if you hire someone, you need to trust them, or else don’t bother.
Can’t help you to solve your problem if you don’t have full trust.
She didn’t say anything, I really didn’t want to work with her anymore.
2 days later, she said Oh, my daughter really liked it, can we continue working on the project?
I said yes, but we need to figure out some problems between us first, and come to an agreement.
She disappeared after that.
😓 red flags everywhere.
These are my favorite types of videos on this channel, i wish there was more content like this
you like these short bits?
The Q&A with students/other people. Then explained on a whiteboard content
yes PLEASE more students and Chris with a whiteboard videos. Thanks so much!
The whiteboard videos are the best
This was great, wish Chris would go into a little more detail about what made him reject those two clients.
Augusto T all you have to do is ask and I’ll tell you. They were bad clients because they didn’t know what they wanted and didn’t value my time. A client literally said “I asked my wife and daughter and they didn’t like it. Can’t you just keep making more ideas?”
In another situation, the client applauded after we presented. 2 days later they said they were underwhelmed. In both cases what they ended up with was garbage. So they got what they paid for and deserved.
It all worked out. Not everyone is deserving of your talent.
The Futur Thanks for responding! This channel is amazing.
@@thefutur I can relate with the first experience. It's so similar to what happened to me. In my case, it was a web design and development project. It was a portfolio for an Architect. At a certain point of the process, in the final stages to be precise, he came to me and said something like "You've done a great job. I know we're about to finish the project but I'd like to discuss some changes. I showed the project to my son and these are the changes he believes will improve it". I remember I wasn't sure if either I couldn't breathe or talk after that. What's worse is that I couldn't afford to do what Chris did because the mister is a friend of my boss... *sigh*
Hi Chris, I don't know of you'll see this since the video is from a while back but the content is evergreen & important for every designer . A lot of people will have to experience this at some point to grow.
Mine was this year, a client kept changing their mind and wasting my time. They would agree then say a few days later they don't like it because their siblings don't like it. They would contact me at odd hours and I decided to pull the plug. I emailed & called them and said we weren't a good fit and I'd be refunding her the down-payment even though in my terms it's non refundable (but I just wanted to move on) . The client refused and said they don't believe in refunds, they asked if I could connect them with another designer. I sent the client a couple of designers but informed them of the clients nature because I didn't want to send them in blind. The client ended up working with one and I thought all was well. Two and a half months down the line they send an email that they changed their mind and want the money back. This threw me way off and I was shocked. I had been informed by a person we knew mutually that the client had already begun to use my work and had test samples. I was dismayed . What would be the best way to handle this, make it clear that the refund offer is off the table or give it to them despite knowing they've already started using my work commercially but would like you to believe that's not the case. Thank you in advance for reading this lengthy comment. Your videos have helped me to identify problematic clients and say no to avoid such problems in the first place.
Bummer. Some people are impossible to please. If they use your design without paying you can sue them.
@@thefutur Thank you so much for getting back to me 🙏🏽
Thanks Chris I needed this after that crazy call I showed you
hang in there MIke.
@@thefutur thanks 🙏
I find it so hard to believe that a client would give someone as cheerful as Chris a hard time. But then again, if I knew Chris was going to pay to me leave, maybe I should give him a hard time :oD
it was in the early days of the company. i didn't do a good enough job to vet clients.
Amazing video. I still have a request for a new one. On how to identify flaws on your process or how to know when you are making mistakes. Techniques to improve workflow or to become a better designer in the production world not business of design. Since personally as a freelance designer I feel stuck and overwhelmed in so many ways. That would definitely help. Thanks!
Jose Ocampos Experience. It’s as simple as that. You can make a logo in 5 minutes but compare that to a logo made in the same amount of time by someone who has been doing it for 25 years. Repetition. Practice. Failure and Success. Repetition being the most important.
I love clubhouse but it’s nice to see you the smile the personality love it!
Futur pro for life
A client that I worked 14 months with just quit our relationship LOL because they couldn’t understand how I wasn’t able to do stuff in one hour any more 😁 they also couldn’t understand why I got so loud about their late payments.
This is very helpful! Thanks futur!
This is great Chris! please upload more of these if possible! :) thank you!
we doin it! with the help of the team, we'll release more content.
I like this video BUT it feels incomplete. ...How can we do this? how can we stop a relationship that is not working for us? What do we need to say and not to say?
this 100%. very uninformative video all in all. feels more like braggadocio.
How can I? How can we bla bla? Mememememem me me me... Think for yourself a little and appreciate the free content... Instead of "me me me"
He literally said how. It's just that simple.
just tell the client, "i don't think it's in our best interest to continue working together. i don't think i can give you what you are asking for. so i think it's best if we go our separate ways. I'll refund the remaining balance. i wish you well."
LOL mememememe
Great information as usual! I have some low paying clients that I want to fire, but they've been with me since I started my business. How should I handle that? Refer them out?
I’d also like help with this
What would be the first step to firing a client? How would you take the approach that could possibly erupt in physical confrontation (not that I mind should it come to it) but to also have them understand from a business point of view?
Letting go of a client is the last step. The first step is qualifying them properly, because if they were qualified to work with you then you would never have to let them go in the first place. You technically don't fire them, you just help them move on by connecting them with others who might be able to solve their problems. If you complete some work, and they're constantly not satisfied then you have explain to them that it's not a good fit for either of you and just recommend another designer. Don't send them an invoice, and don't let them use the work. This saves a lot of time and money for everyone.
Compu Tron Yes, oh my goodness, I agree with this. Thank you so much.
great vid as always
Thank you.
The statement Chris made on 1:11. How do you avoid the client suing you regardless of the full refund on the basis of time wasted and money loss? Meaning that they can take you to court and say "We wasted all of this time with you as an agency which equated to hundreds of thousands of dollars lost when we could of hired someone else to get the job done"?
I like these short snippets :)
Thanks chris
We worked for Grupo Modelo, in mexico but their working culture and expectations were crazy, they didnt deliver the source materials for weeks then it was incomplete, then expected next day delivery of the finished project (website, app, photoshoot, spot advertisement, poster design for big promo campaign), needless to say we fired and banned them from the agency because they wanted us back we sent a formal letter to the regional director and everything basically severing any ties
neuemage Meeting for the first-time with a potential client is a very important phase of each project you take on - this meeting or consultation can either start the project off on the right foot, or help you to avoid taking on a client or project that is not a good fit for you.
Well the deal is it wasnt the first gig we did for them, we worked together for 4 years (benchmarking, mystery shopper, surveys,focus groups, price elasticity, etc ) then suddenly they named a new marketing director (and he still is there)
That's why you have to price your services properly; Cost of Materials + Cost of Service = Your Fee.
Always love videos like these ❤️
But what about downpayment, I hear you saying refund money in full. But if you started working and made progress. That is alot of energy and time and custom design that will be wasted. I rather end it with the Client and still have something to fall back on for this wasted relationship.
Usually first payment is not refundable but worth giving back to walk away clean.
I always wonder if this is part of the sustaining member class or something? I find that a lot of the content in this class speech really help, anyone knows where I can find more information?
it was just a visiting class that asked these questions. we are now just getting around to editing this video together.
this seems like a good lecture where can I find more of it?
Darkbulb1 we just edit the lectures down to short segments like this. More are on the way.
Very Insightful..Thank you
Is the full talk available somewhere?
Jona M Garcia no. Just parts.
Which longer video piece is this one apart of? Link to it?
it's not available. just these edits. but we have more to come.
Ok is it behind the $5 dollar membership or just not at all?
DemiRonin I would like to know as well
IS IT JUST ME?.... OR DOES CHRIS LOOK LIKE HE'S BEEN WORKIN OUT ;) haha great advice thanks so much !!
haha. maybe i just did a few pushups right before we started filming. who knows. got do the curls for the girls.
Valuable content man. Thanks.
Chris, You worked out the morning of this workshop?
must have. the futur has been keeping me busy so it's harder to maintain my fitness level.
Thanks, is very helpful 🤗
Appreciate it!
I agree with all of this - however, I have had clients come back to me after I fired them. I even have a video about it!
Nick Calabro you fire like a Pro. ;)
Nice content, but please don't make your outro music super loud compared to the voice! I'm wearing headphones so that was painful!
Cheila Ferreira sorry. Rookie mistake.
Notification squad?
Would never work for anyone who abuses us
👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
Helpful video, one point of critique is to balance the audio a lil more. The outro was damn loud.
sorry. we are going to fix this moving forward.
So you charge 50k for to draw some pictures, and had 50k in overhead, how, calling BS
jmac2050 first: it was about a video. Second: they money usually still comes from the client. If in this case not, they're a big company, not one man, so they have the resources
RSVDCN. U not saying anthing really. He's just trying to project big business image. U can drink the Kool Aid if u like. It don't take team to do logo work, maybe, it takes a team to work with mutiple different clients simultaneously.
U can have an architect and a engineer draw up prints for 5k - 10k tops, and they also work with a staff.
I think the numbers Chris used were just an arbitrary example to point out you need to charge overhead to grow as a business.
What do you mean "draw some pictures"? You would have to know the full scope of the project and who it was being done for to determine whether 50k is BS. I was shocked the first time one of my peoples told me what he can make in a day doing motion graphics
Ps Chase. U will find exceptions in every industry. If this was the normal, everybody and their mother would go into this field.
Shame about the hair man
Why is it a shame?
@@thefutur Why wouldn't it be?