Kyle and the Everyman Archetype
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- So half of this video ended up being a trope analysis but here we take a look at one of the side characters from She-ra and the Princesses of Power, Kyle and how he deserved better.
Articles we used in the video:
knowyourarchet....
tvtropes.org/p...
ew.com/tv/2019...
buymeacoffee.co... - Розваги
There's an irony in the writers thinking that characters like Kyle are boring and uninteresting, but unintentionally make him one of the most sympathetic characters on the show by berating and abusing him.
No one seems to know what an Underdog is anymore.
Heh. Same for marvel writers... The say they hate "punch-the-bad-guy cookie cutter heroes who always win" and at the same time write cookie cutter preachy smug heroes who are always right about everything all the time.
@@DonVigaDeFierro Same writers also believe that past villains are more interesting and even sympathetic because "flaws" and "tragedy".
That’s been a thing happening a lot in modern media
@@CoolG97 He's a super-powered dog, like Krypto lol
Yeah, Kyle being bullied was never fun to me. It's like the tsundere hitting the boy trope. I just don't find it funny.
The Tsundere is only good if it changes along im the story
Likewise. I always wanted characters like Naru from Love Hina to get arrested for domestic abuse, or at least called out on their behavior.
@@Paxchi That's why I never could get into Love Hina ironically.
I for one loathe that trope because quite frankly it just makes me extremely uncomfortable.
@@elextrano7597 funny how the trope actually had a purpose in trying to make the male characters mature but now it’s mostly I say mostly used for lazy comedy like I still find it hard to believe that one of the sweetest characters in urusei yatsura is a tsundere when the main guy is the definition of one
In the hands of better writers, Kyle would've had substantial growth and awesome moments. Instead, we got shipping.
With his own bullies none the less
The lizard should have had SOMETHING TO HIM. Like, no ome understands him? BOOM, he uses hand signals. There, now we can make him have some more character and, the way this show was, he can be representation for mute individuals. His lizard people seem to only exist in the Horde but are rare, kinda like the Scorpions, so he could be part of a conquered people who was taken from his family and has had his entire culture taken away from him and erased as the Horde has wiped out his peoples culture during conquest. That can give him some conflict as he serves the horde, knowing what they've done, giving his coldness some depth. He rarely tries to talk and when he does it gets made into a joke, so, since the Horde, the bad guys I remind you, are a EVIL MILITARY STATE, they might not let him and the rest of his fellow people speak in hand signs unless given specific permission from commanders(who most likely don't know it themselves so never give the clear) literally making him and all lizards voiceless. They could even make it against regulations to let more than one lizard to serve in certain sized units to deprive them of unity or social interaction, making them socially deprived and easier to control for the EVIL Horde. Maybe he doesn't speak up for Kyle or try to stop the others both because he literally can't and that no one would speak up for him. Bonus, it would make the Horde TRULY REPULSIVE if that was the kind of thing they did to other species they conquered and consider less than under Hordak.
Unironically the whole series in a freaking nutshell
In the hands of better writers, Kyle would've been the fokkin protagonist
It's funny to me how the writers pushed Kyle to the side because "in any other story he would've been the main character" but somehow they still managed to make me like him more than any of the actual main characters. I will always support you, Kyle.
Not even a new concept for a cartoon, basically Gaston in the old Beauty and the Beast was an acomplished manly man stereotypical hero who, in any other adventure, would have gotten the princess and killed the monster. They should at least put more effort into copypasting their original ideas.
@@doesntmatter5857 it’s not even done well cause adoras character is a cliche as well the only new thing about her is that she’s a good student and that’s it
Once the Horde recruits defected, it could have been pretty nice to have Kyle just be a actual good friend to the "main characters" and especially adora since he is a part of her past and NOT Catra. He could have had a nice moment where he's like "I don't know what's going on with the heart thing but your a good friend and no matter what you can do it Adora" and someone actually appreciates him, showing that at least Adora and Co. stopped the abuse on him.
@@andrewdiaz3529, this show is based around the relationship between Adora/Catra/Glimmer/Bow, not Kyle.
@@Neville60001 And those relationships sucked.
I hated the Kyle abuse; not only was it unfunny, it also showed their hypocrisy, considering the way they treated Kyle goes against the message they wanted to promote about abuse
@Eevee * If Kyle was a girl, the same people that praised the show would be outraged
I know right? When Catra was abused it was taken seriously, but when it's Kyle, it's usually played for laughs.
I don't want to be that kind of person but, it smells like double standard to me. 😒
@@lavenderplace8591 Nothing wrong with calling it like it is, It was a double standard
@@lavenderplace8591 the show suffers from double standards that it’s laughable
@@lavenderplace8591 To be fair, Kyle’s abuse was far less severe than Catra’s. He’ll usually be pushed around a little and be a scapegoat, but Catra suffered outright torture.
I just want to remind everyone that Kyle gave up a week's worth of his own rations and left himself hungry just to bring happiness to people who don't even respect him. That alone made him the best character
My poor boi. He deserves to be cared for by Angela and Micah (because it would be a better option than that ungrateful brat Glimmer. Just disown Glimmer)
Didn't they take his food against his will?
@@babycatillac3067 He went along with it, and said, "I'm hungry, but celebrating your victory is worth it.", with a smile on his face.
@@KelShu they could've donated some of their bars. But I see what you mean.
@@babycatillac3067 They didn't, they just took all of Kyle's
They abused a fictional character to take out their own frustrations and insecurities?
I'm shocked. SHOCKED... Well, not that shocked.
Yeah because the main characters have "better problems" than the minor characters in reality the background characters should have been the main characters
@Eevee * let's hope they don't wind up in any position of power were they can wind up abusing people who work under them..........................
Kinda like Meyer in a way; her Mary Sue characters get all the good stuff, and their scapegoat gets all the bad stuff, just so they can feel good about themselves.
@@megametexe5129 Too late.
@@laceneil4570 Twilight still became a bestseller because of frustrated housewives and naive teenage girls (and adult women who are; unfortunately, into that).
Catra gets abused: "Isn't this so tragic! Doesn't this make you feel sympathetic towards her? Aren't you willing to forgive her for all the terrible things she's done knowing this?"
Kyle gets abused: "Hahaha 🤣🤣🤣!!! Isn't this hilarious! It's so funny to see a kidnapped child get abused by his captors!"
I don't like it when Kyle is being abused like that by them, he was to young experience it😤😠😡
@@divasyazwina189 that implies that it would have been okay if he was older…
This character really bugged me personally, as we share the same name and even have similar hairstyles. I got bullied A TON growing up because I was very thin as a kid. Once I got a bit older, I filled out more and was able to stand up for myself, but seeing this show basically taking what I went through and turning it into a joke was just flat out offensive.
Yep. I hate bullies, especially in fiction... If your characters can't go about their day without being smug, belligerent bullies because it's "funny", then that says a lot about the author.
I find it startling that Noelle managed to fool her fanbase into cheering on what amounts to bullying someone being fun.
Then again, this is the same woman who thinks her kind of "relationship" is healthy or stable.
There's just so many problems with the storyline and characters that they don't bother to do that the first priority is literally ships
@@wackywa76 Because of Noelle's own issues concerning her and her wife. They have an "open marriage", but most of the partners her wife has are men, while Noelle has little to none.
It's kind of pathetic.
@@donutbevil9669 that explains a lot
It's funny how the one character they tried to make us hate is unironically the best character of the entire series.
#BestBoyKyle
And the one we're supposed to like in the end (Catra) became the most unlikeable character (still haven't gotten over the fact that she almost destroyed the universe and got Angela stuck between dimensions)
@@JayRedGear Well look at our options as a whole; other than Micah and Angela, majority of our characters were either assholes or buffoons
They didn't even try in getting us to hate him, they just assumed based on the fact he's a young human boy who gets hurt a lot it would funny. There's nothing to hate about him and that's the problem if it's meant to be funny. (But considering the Showrunner thinks boys having depression is funny, there might be some unfortunate implications.)
@@CoolG97 it’s also one of the reasons why Sakura haruno fails as a comic relief
@@CoolG97 Well they assumed wrong because all that did was show their hypocrisy and double standards when it came to promoting their message
Let's be honest, If Kyle was the main character then all the character from this show would've been hated from the start especially Catra
That's so true is that their not thinking about other people's point of views they're just thinking oh no she had a bad childhood and that now makes her evil but they don't say anything about the actions that she did to other people and the people that she literally killed (cough cough Queen Angella)
If Kyle found and (somehow) was able to use the sword we'd then have a protagonist that has to learn how to be brave and fight for what is right instead of "I was the best the Horde had to offer but I'm also very clumsy and insecure lol.'
@@CoolG97 a protagonist that has to learn to be brave and fight and also happens to be a kinda archetypal weak little guy who still turns into a pretty feminine yet super strong hero would have been a pretty crazy turn.
@@andrewdiaz3529 Now I'm imagining Hera, where a cowardly guy turns into a legendary amazon warrior, it sounds just crazy enough to be awesome.
There actually is a series like that called Shezow, only instead of being weak Guy is more an average if not stereotypical boy.
@@CoolG97, we'd then have yet another (white) male hero doing the same thing other mostly (white) male heroes have done in fiction for decades; what would the fun be in doing that?
Out of the entire She ra reboot Kyle was the only character I liked and cared about, and got excited anytime he was on screen. He really reminded me of Hiccup from How to train your dragon, who’s my comfort character, so that’s probably why I loved Kyle immediately
Fr
Hiccup is an amazing character. DreamWorks has very good writers.
Hiccup is one of my favorite characters and is an inspiration for me to keep believing myself. Anyone who takes the good things Hiccup represented and try to crush or belittle better hope I’m not in a bad mood.
Fun head cannon: The magic on Etheria causes everyone to be cast into different times and places, and Kyle ends up on New Berk learning how to stand up and believe in himself. Catra in contrast ends up as Eres’s plaything who constantly has to keep up with the Chaos Goddess’s whims. Little pay back for all the turmoil Catra put everyone through.
Kyle to me is more of an izuku cause both characters get mocked and belittle for doing well nothing and both are chill dudes and both know and grew up with an aggressive person in their life
@@carlacarrero4975 and people still wonder why you wouldn't ship Bakudeku
Toxic ships that are only shipped because of sexual tension seem to be a running thing on the internet
The Everyman tends to be more often than not the "voice of reason" not only for the other characters, but for the setting itself.
In children's shows they tend to be the vehicle to explain the more complicated concepts of the setting.
I'm not a fan of the concept because I don't like infodumps, but they are so prominent in fiction for a reason: Because they god damn WORK!!
honestly i feel that's one way to make the info dumps work/be less obnoxious like if it was a "hero discovers/transported to a new world" then the everyman could be used to give info more naturally then say "lets all explain this thing we all know about because" (info dumps is more when all the info is just given in one instance instead of naturally given at certain points one by one)
@@christopherauzenne5023 I agree, and while the trope makes it 100% more organic and doesn't take you out of the story (as much), it all comes down again to the most important rule of fiction writing: *Show, don't tell!*
Aside from the "punching bag", Kyle fits a very dark archetype. No one ever asks why a kid shoots up a school. They just gaslight and scapegoat the root of the problem until people stop paying attention or caring. Meanwhile those responsible get away without consequence. To Kyle, what is the difference between the Princess Alliance and the Horde? The creators have planted all the seeds necessary for a mass murderer.
It's why they hated Joker.
Wow...
Kyle is not an 'everyman', he's a target. He's there for the Showrunner to take out her frustrations out on. That's it. As for 'deconstructing' am I the only person who is absolutely sick and tired of that tired excuse for bad writing? And to even do it 'right', I've been told, you have to actually LIKE the thing you're deconstructing, which Noelle Stevenson has proven she clearly doesn't. #JusticeForKyle
Exactly.
I believe the correct term for what Kyle is is "Butt monkey"
Yeah they seem to have confused Everyman with Generic Protagonist and Kyle doesn't either so it's just spite in the end.
Kyle was wronged.
If they had any brains they would reconstruct rather than deconstruct. Or rather they'd finish what they started when they pulled things apart by putting them back together. For Kyle to start out as the doormat and then growing fed up with his treatment and pushing himself until he's a full on equal to the main characters? That would have been interesting.
@@MagicalMaster That would require Noelle Stevenson to let go of her man-hate. And evidence suggests she never will.
I've been seeing guys getting pushed around and bullied in animation a lot lately. Reverse the genders and there would be countless articles bashing cartoons that have it.
I'm a woman and I hate it too because I've been bullied before and gender does not separate it; YOU STILL KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE.
I swear that is the situation and in cartoons if it was a girl it wouldn’t be a joke but if it was a boy if would be a laugh and a joke he was bullied and yeah like bo the one episode where they almost become friends and seahock throws Kylie bo doesn’t even care LIKE WHAT- u didn’t even tell them that he’s got the info for him isn’t he the good guy? Now I’m wondering why he isn’t like it to Kylie at least... he even told bo he didn’t listen and put him aside like everybody else...
This is one of the main reasons why I say this is a terrible show. Not only does it have bad themes, rationalize/say “it’s fine” to abuse/toxic relationship/people, no understand what their doing and waste time but also treat characters like crap. Hell even Adora kinda got that treatment with how one sided her narrative was and how they dumbed down her character. (AKA bad writing in general)
don't forget to improve yourself in order to become a fundamentally better person. we could see Kyle develope having internal monologue to get things done and ignoring insults about him, trains a little and uses that ball toy as a new weapon,(augmenting it with the other tech) , or give him an arc where it's a gift from his family or brother and always keeps it with him, already you have a good plot for the character. but they are creatively bankrupt to see the potential there.
@@darkman452 for reallll
It's not a strictly bad show, it did try it's best to present these topics and showcase how bad they are, but they were definitely uneducated on how to properly present them. That or they had to be restrained due to them making a kids show.
Even with trying to flesh out other characters like Mermista, her whole arc of feeling 'useless' felt forced and whenever they try to flesh out a character they go completely out of character and look dumb, which makes their redemption seem disregarded and mocked.
Lord Hordak was actually interesting but his story wasn't regarded as often. And despite how they tried to redeem them, they already made a mistake in Catra and Adora's relationship. I might be a bit of a gatekeeper with toxic relationships, but there are a few things Catra does to Adora that makes no sense, and it makes patching back their relationship trickier than you think.
@@drawnwithlove3499 for me a show with bad writing is a bad show. Most characters underdeveloped while it all goes to Catra. Plus: You shouldn’t touch the subject of abuse if you don’t know how to handle it. The show gave it the message it’s fine to go back to your abusers/abuse is fine if they say I’m sorry. And the fact they got it in there clearly shows they weren’t really restrained. They were restrained by their own poor creativity and terrible ideas/values as shown in the video with how they treat Kyle.
She Ra was rushed, they missed out on introducing a few alliance characters teased in season 1, and had a lot of wasted potential with the writing
Unfortunately, not every character gets the series they deserve.
Also, I wouldn't read too much into this, but by intentionally avoiding having an everyman protagonist it's kind of implied that they wanted their main characters to be as unrelatable as possible.
Is that a Kyle sticker? XD
Eighth Grader Syndrome. They didn't want unrelatable main characters, they wanted everyone to relate to them and their power fantasies. I wouldn't be surprised if that's also the reason for the childish conflict resolutions that are reminiscent of fanfictions from 14-16yos.
I swear, I thought that Kyle sticker was Clemont from pokemon
in like 20 years i hope someone makes a mean spirited reboot where kyle is the main character and gets to be the hero of the story
A REBOOT OF A REBOOT TO A NEW A REBOOT
Kyle the kid who could have been something special. In the the words of Subzero, "Such wasted potential."
Most of the background characters were waste potentials the main characters were all they were all bratty and dumb 😒
Honestly, the Kyle situation really pissed me off. I was bullied the same way Kyle was in school, for four years, amd it really had a bad impact on my mental health. The fact that they made such stupid bulliing the butt of the joke, really makes me sad and angry. Especially since abuse takes a big part in the story, still they really ignored Kyle. Uh
Kyle was such a wasted potential.
The whole show was wasted potential.
My issue with Kyle is that it doesn't make sense for him to be in the horde from a world building perspective. We are constantly told that the horde is viscous and all about survival of the fittest, Adora even states that you are not allowed to be sick and you have to hide from supervisors. So why do they have a weakling in the ranks? Kyle would have either been given a desk job away from the fight, treated like dirt by the authorities and his fellow soldiers or simply been put down for being a liability.
I actually wondered most of the time how did the Horde manage to take over an entire planet since everyone seems to be incompetent (not JUST Kyle). Like Adora from the first episode was given rank but acts like such an incompetent buffoon with the sword in the same episode
The lizard should have had SOMETHING TO HIM. Like, no ome understands him? BOOM, he uses hand signals. There, now we can make him have some more character and, the way this show was, he can be representation for mute individuals. His lizard people seem to only exist in the Horde but are rare, kinda like the Scorpions, so he could be part of a conquered people who was taken from his family and has had his entire culture taken away from him and erased as the Horde has wiped out his peoples culture during conquest. That can give him some conflict as he serves the horde, knowing what they've done, giving his coldness some depth. He rarely tries to talk and when he does it gets made into a joke, so, since the Horde, the bad guys I remind you, are a EVIL MILITARY STATE, they might not let him and the rest of his fellow people speak in hand signs unless given specific permission from commanders(who most likely don't know it themselves so never give the clear) literally making him and all lizards voiceless. They could even make it against regulations to let more than one lizard to serve in certain sized units to deprive them of unity or social interaction, making them socially deprived and easier to control for the EVIL Horde. Maybe he doesn't speak up for Kyle or try to stop the others both because he literally can't and that no one would speak up for him. Bonus, it would make the Horde TRULY REPULSIVE if that was the kind of thing they did to other species they conquered and consider less than under Hordak.
@@andrewdiaz3529 I hadn't even thought of that. But I think that because literally everyone we see in the horde gets redeemed, the crew felt comfortable ignoring the blight they brought to Etheria in favor of making them relatable and funny. This not only makes the conflicts of the early seasons seem completely pointless because the heroes are fighting a group of normal guys, but it also ruins the redemptions arcs of a lot of characters. For a character to be redeemed they have to acknowledge that they were wrong and face up to the crappy things they did. You can't have a mass murderer feel bad and have inner problems and act like that makes them better, they have to stop killing people, take responsibility for killing people and take actions to curb their behaviour. That's what Avatar did with Zuko and what IDW did with Megatron. They didn't just cry, have a sad back story and then said sorry and were given a girl friend.
@@tinkywinky5558 Maybe because the princess alliance is just as incompetent if not more so. Mermista was waiting for death after her people yeet the fuck out and Perfuma was like "peace be with you my brother" despite with what she's dealing with.
A more intereseting story would have been Kyle escaping from the abusive control of the Horde, possibly by accident if his team mates left him for dead, and finding himself in the world of (insert name here) where he finds out about the Rebels and THEIR POV on this and while he does turn to their side, he realizes the abuse and brainwashing his team mates have gone through and towards the end of the story does make it his goal to free them. Some he does free, some he doesn't either out of them dying or them betraying him but all through it, Kyle raises as a hero just by putting putting others before himself.
I would have watched a show like that rather than Self-Insert-Ra. It's clear that Noelle and her crew not only don't understand common writing tropes, they just don't care. Throughout the entire series, Noelle was just using She-Ra as her 'escape' from all her problems, WHICH in of itself wouldn't have been a problem if;
1) She hadn't used an established franchise that is the complete polar opposite of what she presented
2) Blame everyone else for her problems
3) Projected her problems onto everyone else and expect us to give a flying fuck after talking towards people like a complete and utter asshole
The biggest problem with Nu-Ra is that Noelle turned the show into her diary and turned things that should have been private to herself as things she wanted to audience to validate her for and honestly? As cold as this is going to sound, I don't give a shit. The reason I don't give a shit is because not only does she give people way too much detail on her private life, she also claims that what she feels is what all women feel and NO. NOOOOO. When you dig deeper into Noelle's problems, all the fucky shit that went on with the story and art design make a lot more sense but it becomes a lot more aggravating when again, she's using other women as the scapegoat of why they should exist because we all apparently 'share her experience as women'.
Again, NO.
The reason why Adora is so badly designed is because Noelle has body issues of her own, and so pushed that on Adora AND other women.
The reason why adults are treated badly is because Noelle had issues with her parents, so she pushes that on the show AND everyone.
And it goes on and on and on, and everyone already knows the whole Catdora situation and what it stands for. Essentially, Nu-Ra was just Noelle bitching at the world and dragging us along with her fucked up shit and expecting us to cry over her and agree with her that we all feel the same. But if we don't she'll rage out and claim all the -ist shit we've used to by now. It shows the massive weakness in her own self-esteem and why she needs HELP rather than deals but hey, that's just a thought.
Then she has the nerve to insult the fans of the old show and the MOTU franchise in general because they DARE question her live journal fanfiction.
@@cartoonking1789 All the while Mattel is pushing the classic She-Ra now more than ever.
And Kyle meets Bo again and punches him in the face for stabbing him in the back.
Noelle even openly admits Glimmer his her D&D persona, which is why she's treated so good and is never at fault and is pretty much a narcissist and with her mother "dead" her live gets better. Catra's obviously her as a teenager and probably how she got away with a being a terrible person and kept level of maturity. if I had to guess, probably from Noelle's relationships she felt was wronged and the other "just needed to learn" to love her, which is very awful. Speaking of: one of the showrunners also looks a lot like She-ra being quite androgynous, so it's just just Noelle self-inserting. They all did to some degree.
Honestly; I think Stevenson just stepped on She-Ra in order to get her own "Lumberjanes" greenlit, which she stole and takes credit for, which is why there's suck a lack of respect for the franchise and fandom that kept it alive only to be abused by her and her buddies Fanfic at Dreamworks' expense. Let's hope if Lumberjanes hits a snag, Chuck Austin tells them to piss off. (I have a feeling it'll suck, but the media will never shut up about it) Maybe after another oopsie like with that podcast, companies will use that to no longer use her, like what happened to Kate Leth as she's crawled back to indie comics after High Guardian Spice died before it even had an episode.
this is the first I'm hearing of a lot of this But it makes a ton of sense though. Is there anywhere I can go to learn more about this It's always interesting to examine a train wreck
@@megametexe5129 She breaks this down in he own biography. Its just really...telling how she enables HERSELF yet somehow recognizes the abuse but tries to 'comfort' herself by trying to convince herself that EVERY 'minority' has some sort of shared experience with her and would act in the same way.
....NO. NO, it's not like that yet she's dragging people down WITH her. It's fucking insanity.
I don’t think these writers know what Everyman means. And by abusing Kyle they’ve made him the more interesting character in the series.
Again these are terrible writers.
terrible people too.
Wait so the background everyman characters were more competent and interesting than the actual characters they made?
Always has been
Never underestimate the power of the Everyman. They are not really boring, some people are just shallow.
The fact that they didn't do anything about the situation but just say it he was literally a joke to the whole show but the show was literally talking about themes like abuse it's really upsetting
The thing with Kyle is that we as the audience care about him because he's an Underdog and you can't help but root for the Underdog.
Kyle is what happens when you have a group of hack writers mock a character because they think he's boring.
They unintentionally make him the most sympathetic character because of his pains, and his actions make with the situation he was in.
Unlike the main cast, he was relatable and had the most growth potential, but none of the folks who work on an embarrassing of a show took advantage of that because they were so busy making fun of him, which only came off mean-spirited.
You two should definitely make more of these trope analysis videos!
This show was mean-spirited to begin with. The thing about shows like this is that they know the things that their characters treat each other is wrong but they want to ignore certain perspectives so it would seem like there's nothing wrong with treating certain characters like crap. They knew it was wrong for how Bo treated Kyle but downplayed it anyway cuz it wasn't the focus, especially since he's a parody character anyways.
You think THIS shows mean sprited. Look up a show called Sidekick. (The main character is Eric Needles BTW) That has to be one of most cruel, mean spirited and torture porn shows I've ever seen treat the main character.
And don't forget the crappiest representation of autism with Entrapta.
God, whh must this shit exist?
@@thedesensitizedsympathizer5307 Oh god, I remember that show, I hated the way everyone treated him.
@@kc_9970 oh my god someone else who agrees Entrapta wasn't properly represented and was honestly just annoying
Autistics aren't always apathetic and a lot actually try their best to connect with others and making Entrapta totally neutral or even unaware of the war on their planet was just...
They should have acknowledged that Entrapta does care and does try her best to acknowledge her mistakes.
Autistics have trouble expressing themselves, but I assure you they try.
They seem careless but they think about their loved ones everyday and worry if they hate them.
They worry if someone will hate them so much they become vulnerable or shield themselves by hiding themselves away entirely
Entrapta wasn't a perfect autism representation, she just seemed like a dumb, apathetic annoying person
@@drawnwithlove3499 They do acknowledge Entrapta's perspective on everything in that one Hordak scene, but that's about it. Honestly, this is why fanfiction is a lifesaver: it helps give every character a personality no matter how small.
Weird theory; Kyle was meant to be Prince Adam and by connection He-Man.
He's basically the same age as Adora, has a similar color hair and is the weak, scrawny and feeble character that Prince Adam plays as when he wants to avoid suspicions of being He-Man.
I say this because it lines up just enough to make sense while also being just in the air long enough to be able to bat down if need be. Especially since it does allow for parallels to Adora without any work. So the showrunners developed Kyle to be the everyman archetype and had him play a similar role to what Prince Adam looks like to everyone else. Then, if the show was popular enough to get more seasons than it originally got and the license, they would eventually give Kyle a transformation plot through Boh as a key factor in it which would than have them turn Kyle into Prince Adam, yet would still play second fiddle to Adora and She-Ra since it might have been a secondary power outlet. The worldbuilding was loose enough to allow it without too much justification and work and the set up is open enough to back-track on it and never bring it up again.
I'm almost 80% certain that was the idea behind his character since they hadn't gotten the He-Man license at the time and they wanted to play it up to having it just in case. The aftermath of his character and how the writers treated him is more because once they never got the license, they didn't need him to play any larger role and so just played 'kick the can' until the end of the show with him and his gang.
DANG IT WHY COULDN'T THIS BE THE IN THE SHOW
The Everyman can be a fun character to have when the other characters are almost opposite of them or the worlds are different from our own.
Branch in the Trolls series is often how the viewer learns about the wacky shenanigans and traditions everyone gets up to. He and Poppy’s opposite personalities often presents multiple ideas, gives great banter, and allows the audience to learn with him. Heck, it’s kinda pointed out what his role is in the episode “Funsgiving” when he gets annoyed at constantly being told what things means when it’s obvious from the names.
Haven’t seen much of Star Trek: TOS in years, but Dr. McCoy always struck me of the most level headed and simplest of the trio. Spock is an emotionally controlled alien and Kirk is a brash Captain who’s got a larger than life ego. McCoy was usually who I ‘followed’ in an episode because he was usually the most sensible or ‘normal’ character there. Plus, I’m a sucker for grumpy, sarcastic characters. Apart from McCoy, there’s Berkley from TNG was a common nerd stuck on a ship with a bunch of action. O’Brien just managing his little sections with a quip along with his wife. Some of Voyagers’ background characters provided good relief and breaks from the main crew. “Lower Decks” was probably one of my favorite TNG episodes because it gave us a chance to see things from the lower crews’ perspectives. Yeah the characters themselves weren’t that fleshed out, but that’s not always a bad thing when you’re main focus is on “the day in the life of-“ episodes.
When I read Sherlock Holmes stories, Dr. Watson is usually the test bar Holmes uses to see how his understanding of others is going along. Dr. Watson arguably doesn’t have much of a voice or role in most stories, but his normality is one of the things Sherlock values in him (“I be lost without my Boswell”). He’s the common mind Holmes needs to provide a simple, straight forward approach that is often wrong, but acts as a great springboard.
Really, the Everyman trope is a good tool and character in most genres. Yeah they may not be the MC or have much depth, but I think it’s refreshing to have someone that just goes with the flow.
Kyle and the others were such wasted characters made worse by everything plus the kitchen sink being thrown at the poor boy. For most people who go about their day dealing with people and stresses, Kyle can be considered a much more relatable character than someone like Adora, Glimmer, or Bow.
Funny you mention Bow because he is clearly meant to be the 'normal' and just comes off as a knock off Sokka, who is another good Everyman character.
@@CoolG97 very fair point. I guess I’m still mad at Bow for being all “everyone befriends!” but then dissing Kyle when it was at least strategically smart to take him with the Rebellion. Out of the ‘Friendship Squad’ you are correct that he fits the Everyman trope, though compared to Kyle I feel he loses a few points.
@@jendoe9436 Bow: "Why am I the only one who puts any Work into being a good Friend?"
Kyle: "Dude, didn't you trick and abandon me after I asked if we could be Friends?"
How is it that professional writers can't understand the basics of one of the oldest character tropes? Those comments remind me of the people who said that Will and Elizabeth never should have been in any Pirates of the Caribbean movie past the first, and that Jack was all we needed. But if that's so, why was pirates 4 so bad? The reason is that the everyman is required to balance out the wacky characters. Kyle did that in She-Ra because, especially in the first season, he was the only character who seemed to actually remember that this show was about child soldiers.
Simple; the dumbfucks who wrote this show aren't 'professionals'.
I never got the Will and Elizabeth criticisms. I like Jack Sparrow, but mainly as a support for the group and vise versa. Will and Elizabeth’s issues kept the story on track while Jack just wandered in and out in his drinking rum haze. Nothing wrong with Jack himself, but his character needs good support to keep him from going too off the rails.
@@jendoe9436 Jack is a great Character, but a Story only about him doesn't always work.
One of the best PotC Fanfictions I ever not only had Jack Sparrow in it, but also plenty of other Characters to balance him out.
They even made the ridiculous Concept of Jack having a Son work!
Cause they're not professionals.
That Stevenson and crew mistook this punching bag character and the way he was treated (in universe and IRL) as an 'everyman', speaks volumes about their sense of empathy and understanding of other people, and how it mars their writing. As Yaboi says, 'they don't human very well'.
Didn't She-ra (80s version) commonly help those who were good people in the Hoard escape. I can think of three: Lohni, Shakra and General Sunder . She was willing to rick much for them because she was a good person, heck even when they looked to betray her (like Lohni and Shakra) or had clearly been her enemy up until that point. Yet she went out of her way to do so cause she was good of heart. Thus I have no doubt she or Bow (again 80s one) would extend a hand to Kyle to escape.
Meanwhile the modern version of She-ra only seems to give chances to an abusive wreck like Catra but she and the others never seemed to show much mercy or care for people on the Hoard. Then again they seem very short sighted. So why is it the show that's over thirty years old showed better values and more heroic tendencies while this show seems to revel in laughing at a bullied and abused kid.
Just saying.
80s She-Ra saved HORDAK'S life a couple of times, a bunch of child soliders will be a no brainier. She would save Kyle and the other kids in a heartbeat, the PSA at the end will be about how to say no to bullies.
@@CoolG97 Gods I'd love for someone to animate it
What always gets me is how Kyle is technically being abused
If Catra is being abused, we should feel bad
If Kyle is being abused, we should find that funny because of his archetype
This is why abuse subjects needs to be in the hands of people that will treat it with dignity and respect
I hate the fact most people in the fandom thinks Catra got the most abuse just because she had a "bad" childhood doesn't make even better than everyone else's they all lived in the same place grew up the same way but Kyle got it worse than her she had friends like a Adora and what did she do instead blame it all on Adora
@@wackywa76 Unpopular opinion : Catra is overrated ,there i say it
Kyle is actually more sympathetic because he doesn't blame others (despite having plenty of reason) for his own problems and misfortune.
@@CoolG97 exactly also he was nice to everyone around him and didn't treat them like dirt *cough* Catra *cough*
@@ValenArtsAnimation Kyle wanted out and was betrayed. Catra had an out and acts like she was betrayed.
Ma boi Kyle deserves a spin-off.
Forget she-ra and the princess of pOwEr We need Kyle's Adventures🥺
@@wackywa76 I'd watch it.
So great that the "Friendship Squad" are such dicks to poor Kyle. Adora never talked about the other Horde "friends" (quoting friends because the show constantly has her focus on the abuse and manipulation of Catra). Glimmer is just crap, willing to trust Shadow Weaver of all people.
Bow is the worst though. He willingly took advantage of Kyle and, like you said, seemed to take glee in traping him. Yet he's willing to show mercy to Catra, not wanting to take her as a prisoner and had the nerve to say "we're not like them". He is also willing to be friends with her. So, he is willing to be friends with the abuser of one of his friends, but will treat poor Kyle like crap when he is nothing but a good boy?
Bow and Glimmer were accessories for the show so it could focus on Adora and Cattra making out.
@@cartoonking1789 we can all agree all the characters were bad even the main characters that is supposed to interest us
@@cartoonking1789 pretty much. I also hate how they don't even try to rescue Queen Angela (but then again, I think she is lucky because she is away from that brat Glimmer. Unfortunate though that she didn't get to reunite with her husband).
@@wackywa76 cardboard cutouts had more characters them this cast.
@@JayRedGear And Glimmer didn’t give a damm.
Maybe if Kyle was a less likable character it would work....? Like if he was a jerk. But he's not. He's the sweetest character in the whole show.
And I everyone else is either boring or awful (looking at you Catra).
@@cartoonking1789 Catra's just annoying
Still a just world fallacy
Kyle is adorable, and my blood boiled every moment he was abused in this show. It just makes every other character around him look terrible for how they treat him.
Kyle deserved better. The entire cast deserved better.
It's really sad that we couldn't elaborate and see like the backgrounds of like these three background characters and the relationship they had with Adora and Catra with the other horde kids like where did they come from? did one of them try to escape? why did they stick together? Did they know what shadow Weaver and hordak was doing this whole time?
The lizard should have had SOMETHING TO HIM. Like, no ome understands him? BOOM, he uses hand signals. There, now we can make him have some more character and, the way this show was, he can be representation for mute individuals. His lizard people seem to only exist in the Horde but are rare, kinda like the Scorpions, so he could be part of a conquered people who was taken from his family and has had his entire culture taken away from him and erased as the Horde has wiped out his peoples culture during conquest. That can give him some conflict as he serves the horde, knowing what they've done, giving his coldness some depth. He rarely tries to talk and when he does it gets made into a joke, so, since the Horde, the bad guys I remind you, are a EVIL MILITARY STATE, they might not let him and the rest of his fellow people speak in hand signs unless given specific permission from commanders(who most likely don't know it themselves so never give the clear) literally making him and all lizards voiceless. They could even make it against regulations to let more than one lizard to serve in certain sized units to deprive them of unity or social interaction, making them socially deprived and easier to control for the EVIL Horde. Maybe he doesn't speak up for Kyle or try to stop the others both because he literally can't and that no one would speak up for him. Bonus, it would make the Horde TRULY REPULSIVE if that was the kind of thing they did to other species they conquered and consider less than under Hordak.
Kyle deserved better smh :'(
Srsly the way his abuse was the joke is extremely toxic and disgusting
That's because the crew of the show are toxic and disgusting.
You know the thing I’ll hate about this new she ra the most is that it will be used as a example of how “all modern western cartoons shows are bad” which this show is but there’s so many great modern cartoons compared to bad but bad has sadly overshadowed good to people and what’s worse is that people will take this show as a example of “good writing and characters” ugh now I’m just sad...
yeah exactly and I can some up the points exactly:
1) "tHIs Is ThE nExT aVAtaR" aka copy avatar- I like avatar it's a great show but for the love of god people it's not the only good western show! Batman the animated series, justice league, xmen, gargoyles, venture bros, beast wars, transformers prime, teen titans all great shows and guess what they're something besides avatar, I swear these people have never seen any other cartoon besides avatar. And then these shows just copy avatar's formula verbatim without realizing WHY it was good or of using it as a base but then creating your own story from it (dont do what avatar did just make your own story)
2) they think drama means relationship drama- seriously I have seen so many shows do this where instead of the drama coming from the high stakes/dangerous war it turns into some 91210 teen melodrama (guess add shipping in here too which basically tries to kill the actual story and turns things into personxperson fanart will they wont they)
@@christopherauzenne5023 to be fair tho, all the shows you just listed have long been over and are no longer considered "modern" in this day and age which is why I can see people saying that "today's" cartoons are trash(imo most of them are).
We do have some good ones but there's just not as many as there used to be, they're either on some other platform that's not TV, or they're cancelled because of low ratings or some other bogus reason.
Today's cartoons are forgetting why their old shows were so popular and have latched onto the idea that 'bigger, louder, and brighter' are what sells, even if it's not good. It's all of that and the fact that the industry has been taken over by a bunch of wannabe circle jerkers who've slithered their way into the positions they have and don't deserve.
@@kalystagutierrez1607 “people are saying today’s cartoons are trash (imo most of them are)
“Today’s cartoons are forgetting why their old shows were so popular and have latched onto the idea bigger, louder, and brighter is what sells”
I now you said it’s your opinion but I have to ask why do you think this? I’m generally interested cause personally (for the most part) I kinda disagree
@@batfang25animations39 it's like Christopher mentioned in their first response, there's not much originality being pushed. Most kids shows(from what I've seen) have done what Christopher noticed and only copied the "greats" without adding in the components that actually made them good shows. TTG (i know, overused) is the best example of what happens when you try to add the "bigger, louder, brighter" aspect to a show that was serious and thought provoking in its own right that children could still understand and enjoy.
I will be honest and say that I haven't watched much television as I used to so my knowledge on current children's entertainment is lacking, but from what I did see, I did not like. There are some good shows that I've had a glimpse at but all I mainly ever see being pushed (and subsequently suck) are dumbed down reboots banking off of nostalgia to get viewers back(TTG, PPG, Thundercats, Ben10, TDI, etc). I don't understand why they choose to do that when they have good shows, why aren't they focusing on those? Why aren't they puting more effort in diversity of content? Why do they continue push low effort content onto kids despite them having the capacity/capability to understand more complex subjects?
it's reminding me of that old CN meme where they did a comparison of all the characters they had in the CN movie theater from the past and the present. It's not that the newer shows suck when being compared to their predecessors, it's just that there's no variety anymore.
One can argue that not all of CN's old shows were good, or that they were all well received, but they did have a lot to pick from at the time. There was a plethora of art styles and themes being shown, now it just seems like everyone(all channels, not just CN) is playing it safe and putting all their eggs into the nostalgia/toddler viewership basket.
I could be wrong, as I said I haven't watched TV in a while(especially kids entertainment) so maybe I'm missing something, but it just seems like these channels are taking advantage of the fact that they kinda have a monopoly over kids entertainment and are just flinging their power around all willy nilly hoping something sticks.
@@kalystagutierrez1607 oh no the shows I listed were about how avatar isn’t the only example of a good western show and how people should stop using avatar as there one and only example of good western shows/the only thing to take notes from it’s more about how annoyed I get from people just using avatar as “the holy grail” or say “this is the next avatar” and ignore every other instance of a good/deep show it just makes me feel they don’t really watch any cartoon (again avatar is good but don’t pretend it’s the only one)
That honestly sounds like a bunch of bull they came up with because they trapped themselves and don't want to sound bad.
Waspinator and Kenny have a new member of the Chew Toy Anonymous.
Great vid ladies! Just more proof that Noelle and her "creative team" didn't want to tell a story, they wanted to write bad slash fanfiction.
I'd like to point out the elephant in the room: Kyle is a white male. That's why they act like it's funny when he's bullied and never give him adequate character development.
They did mock and laugh Bo a lot, but it was played more as "friendly banter" but that only works when everyone gets to take a shot and he never did. I think they only did it a few times knowing it might not end well, and with that "sow" joke that happened.
After years of lesbians and gay men not being given the same in TV and the movies (watch the documentary _The Celluloid Closet_ to see why), why is it bad that a white male character-the most privileged person in existence-isn't given more that what's needed on a TV show that's devoted to LGBT characters?
@@Neville60001 Okay, first of all, you cant pull the LGBT card because Kyle is officially bisexual, Noelle herself confirmed as much. Second of all, just because he's white doesn't mean he deserves to be bullied. It's fine that he's not an important character, but the fact that the show threats it as okay for him to bullied is horrible. White or not, male or not, he's still a kid, and a mostly innocent one. The problem isnt that he's not the main character. The problem is that everyone in the show threats him like shit and the writers see nothing wrong with this. Bullying is bad regardless of who does it to who, and the fact that the writers and some of the more rabid fans dont get that is honestly worrisome.
@@lukevankleef4245, what I said before about Kyle being like two classic characters (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sad_Sack ) and (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Snafu) (as well as en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilligan) still applies-that's all he is really, and I don't think that the 'abuse' is that serious.
If he was straight instead of bisexual he would have died in the background
I feel like a show about these three would have been way more interesting than the main show’s story.
For people that probably browsed TV Tropes daily they really don't seem to get this trope, seem to believe it's meant to be negative. In execution instead of bland character the audience is meant to...what ignore?, be annoyed by?, do they not understand what an Underdog is? You have a sympathetic character that has a terrible life that the audience wants the best for.
Are you going to do a video on the villains overall? The thing that frustrates me is how nearly everyone is either under-used (the original Horde baddies), jumped ship when things got hard (Shadow Weaver and Double Trouble), weren't that bad to begin with (Scorpia and the teen trio), or "redeemed" themselves (Catra and Hordak). Horde Prime was the only one that stayed a threat to the heroes and he wasn't even that interesting of a villain.
I feel like the only one should have been redeemed was Scorpia like all of them (not including the trio) Scorpia should been the only one redeemed out of them,all them has done worst literally take over the whole universe worst destroying Dimensions worst
thats because noelle thinks villains are more interesting then the heros (which probably means what it always means "omg this villain is soooo hot he/she is my hubby/queen") and she didn't want them loosing/getting punished so she made them all go good/jump ship but still needed a final fight so made prime generic and the only bad guy
Because the show wasn’t focused on bad guys or villains it’s because they were more focused on romance and melodrama and shipping.
The lizard should have had SOMETHING TO HIM. Like, no ome understands him? BOOM, he uses hand signals. There, now we can make him have some more character and, the way this show was, he can be representation for mute individuals. His lizard people seem to only exist in the Horde but are rare, kinda like the Scorpions, so he could be part of a conquered people who was taken from his family and has had his entire culture taken away from him and erased as the Horde has wiped out his peoples culture during conquest. That can give him some conflict as he serves the horde, knowing what they've done, giving his coldness some depth. He rarely tries to talk and when he does it gets made into a joke, so, since the Horde, the bad guys I remind you, are a EVIL MILITARY STATE, they might not let him and the rest of his fellow people speak in hand signs unless given specific permission from commanders(who most likely don't know it themselves so never give the clear) literally making him and all lizards voiceless. They could even make it against regulations to let more than one lizard to serve in certain sized units to deprive them of unity or social interaction, making them socially deprived and easier to control for the EVIL Horde. Maybe he doesn't speak up for Kyle or try to stop the others both because he literally can't and that no one would speak up for him. Bonus, it would make the Horde TRULY REPULSIVE if that was the kind of thing they did to other species they conquered and consider less than under Hordak.
@@andrewdiaz3529 Those are all great ideas.
I have not watched the show, but from what this video showed, i can't shake the feeling that kyle's character being abused for laughs was a mean spirited attempt at mocking the traditional male protagonist.
Yup that's is exactly what is he is for
The main problem with this version of She-Ra is that they were so busy deconstructing things they forgot the immensely important next step of reconstructing. All they did was pull things apart and outright refused to put things back together afterwards.
Well it seems they don't understand what they are deconstructing. They believe Everyman literally means "a boring guy" when it's more about an average person getting caught up in the fantastic. It's more of a take that to "boring" male leads but just bullying a character with surface level resemblance to those leads isn't deconstruction.
@@CoolG97 Yea, pretty much this exactly.
I would say that even that is being generous, this is bad fanfiction.
@@cartoonking1789 Treat others as you'd want to be treated. I'd like people to be generous to me so I'm generous myself as best I can be.
Kyle is the real hero on this show. Noelle Stevenson is the real villain and a bully.
I Stand With Kyle.
This might be sound a bit "Tin Foil Hat Theory"-esque, but I don't think it's really an accident that the two characters that generally received the most abuse and humiliation in the series were Kyle and Seahawk. The latter was She-Ra's primary love interest in the classic cartoon, while poor Kyle was created basically just to suffer. It might be reading too much into it, but since both were the most recurring examples of "Straight White Male" (Micha only showed up in the last season and that Twitter comment about Kyle's sexuality seems a bit like a throwaway) I can't help but feel this was deliberate.
I also don't really think it's an accident that Kyle basically looks like a slightly younger Luke Skywalker from A New Hope. Between that and the comment about how Kyle "would have been the one to find the sword in any other series" feels like the She-Ra writing team were deliberately being meanspirited towards that classic male character type, without realizing that all of the abuse he suffered made Kyle basically the most sympathetic person in the series, alongside Micha (a poor, suffering dad just trying to save his family) and Angelica (the only actual responsible person in the show). They basically made Luke Skywalker the butt monkey of their own series, and yet still made him endearing despite their efforts.
I also had to roll my eyes at the "in any other series, Kyle would have been the main hero" comment. Noelle and the writers seem to think that this series broke new ground in terms of female representation and empowerment, having a female lead be the hero in a world where only men are allowed to be the main character. The truth is that there have been female led series for decades now. The original She-Ra series was a great example of how to have a female led action show without making the men look weak or lesser, and completely without any maliciousness or resentment towards anyone.
Heck, there's nothing that Noelle'sShe-Ra did that Avatar: Legend of Korra didn't do better, and Korra is generally considered sub-par compared to the original Avatar series. Heck, Star vs the Forces of Evil was a female led action/comedy series with an everyman sidekick, and somehow Marco never had to suffer the abuse Kyle did.
I'd say the overall biggest contributions Noelle's She-Ra gave the world was two things: 1) A clear example of how not to take an existing franchise and re-purpose it mainly to tell your own fanfiction with no regards to the source material, and 2) Give us the most abusive/toxic LGBT relationship in Western animation with Adora and Catra. Seriously, the easiest straight relationship comparison I can make to Catradora is the Joker's relationship with Harley Quinn, with Catra naturally being the Joker.
If you want to go deeper, OG Bow's real name was 'Kyle' and while the original did have moments of slapstick he was also a vital part of the Great Rebellion. (Also it's been accepted by fanon that he's not exactly straight).
@@CoolG97 Heh, I was worried I was rambling too much already. If I'd dug any deeper I'm worried I would have turned that post into the the chapter of a book.
I didn't know about Bow's common name being 'Kyle', though I doubt Noelle and her writers even dug that deep into the She-Ra lore. They clearly weren't fans of the original series, they just took the most basic names and concepts that you could get from a quick Wiki read and plastered them over their own ideas. I've said it before and I'll say it again: if She-Ra and the Princesses of Power had just been whatever series Noelle originally had in mind and had no ties to the original She-Ra, I'd have less problems with it. I also wouldn't have watched it, but I'd have less problems with it.
I did know he was coded as gay. Filmation was well known for being an actually diverse animation studio with plenty of LGBT people on the staff, as well as a good mix of men and women. And while Bow was used for comedy at times, so were plenty of other characters, male and female. Basically, while Bow was occasionally used FOR a joke, he was never treated AS a joke. He was considered one the Rebellion's top agents and one of the best marksmen on Etheria.
@@Paxchi It's probably a coincidence, OG Bow is definitely in my top 5, perfect combination of cheese and hero. Nu Bow is trying waaay too hard to be Sokka. (Ironically my favorite from Avatar)
@@CoolG97 Yeah, there's a very real "We want to be the next Avatar and have no idea how to go about it" vibe from this show.
@@Paxchi OG Bow was a bad-ass and I think what made the comedy work so well with him was at the same time he wasn't a punk. He was more...sardonic I guess in that when things got too wild he always called it out to me. Nu-Bow is a complete loser; a wimp to the highest degree.
Had an idea to rewrite Kyle and he became leader of the horde but that would be something that happens in a story I’m currently working on.
Thanks again for the upload
I can imagine this
Kyle getting so tired. overwhelmed and just pissed off all so basically he runs away from home try to figure out where he is in the world meet new people gets friends along the way sees everything the world should have been for him (remind do this was before Adora on the sword in the Whispering Woods)UGHHHH I can't be continued this cuz there's so many things to do with this character and it's sad that we can't use him 😕
Wow, just when I think my opinion of this show and the people behind it can't get any lower I get this. They're missing the point of one of the most oldest and prevalent tropes that even non-writers like myself get. The Everyman isn't even always the title character and can be a more stable co-lead/ supporting character to the more the unusual one. Watson is probably one of the older examples serving as a more realistic foil to Sherlock Holmes. There's even one version of Watson that's an Asian woman so, again, it can't be only men in this role.
This is an interesting idea for analysing wasted or misused characters/plots/tropes in media. Look forward to more!
Watching this show was torturous. One of the things that was slightly unbearable WAS Kyle's abuse. They all grew up together, yet they treat Kyle so badly for seemingly no reason. Even if he messes up, you'd think they'd love each other enough to help him get better at what he struggles in. The show itself treated him awfully, it was just all around mean-spirited. I'd rather watch a show about Kyle and see him become a great hero instead of the dumpster fire of a show we got.
The writers grew to love Kyle and the other Horde kids? Am I just making a mountain out of a molehill or does that sound odd? I don't expect them to care about every foot soldier or townie but these are the people that Catra and Adora grew up with. Even if the show doesn't explore them in depth, you'd think the show bible would have some interesting insights right off the bat.
"The show bible would have some interesting insights..."
I wish I had as much faith in the world as you have in the writers of this show...
@@DonVigaDeFierro I mean...id home the show bible would have interesting insights. Though I would be curious to read it.
grew to love the other horde kids? uh excuse me but they were about as characterized/on the same level as cardboard cut outs and from some of the so called "art" that's fairly accurate
@@MistbornTaylor Yeah. It would be actually interesting to compare this one's bible to the original show's bible.
Fr tho. Like this could have been so many character development. If they can make Swift shorts,to ship every single character in the story line and still able to put 1-5 filler episodes each season then how come this didn't go on to the background characters. This whole show is worse than svtfoe last season and that's saying A lot 😕
Always excited for your analysis on this train wreck.
1:01 This sounds like a common thing I heard of in a number of other media, most notably Harry Potter. My problem with this reasoning is more often than not the "suitability" is more an illusion because the 'right' character doesn't really have that much depth compared to the lead.
Edit-Ha didn't realize HP was going to make an appearance.
oh my poor boy... he SHOULD have found the sword instead of the "star horde captain that everybody likes." ...Would have made a good comedy to have the unconfident and abused child unexpectedly becoming a magical rainbow princess and having to deal with that. XD
That's too good an idea for these "writers."
I swear that's almost the plot to Shezow. A boy gets a ring intended for his sister and turns into a superheroine.
I'm sorry but Kyle had so much potential Adora wasn't even that interesting she was just mostly clumsy and acted dumb Even though she came from a military place
@@CoolG97 Oh god, Shezow. I give them points for basically making a trans hero, but it was kinda weird (still can't get over the fact that one eye is bigger than the other)
Please can someone write a fanfic on that!
It would be cool if Kyle found the Sword of Power and became He-Man, I'd watch that reboot if they got some competent writers!
Of course, Kyle was a joke that became something the writing team couldn't be bothered to properly utilize. Plus, seeing the poor guy abused constantly was as horrendous as Catra's constant abuse of Adora, and the story kept INSISTING her and Catra hooking up despite the toxicity was for the best! It has to be, they say so!
No, their fanfic and Tumblr echo-chamber audience are cool with it; but most audience members are like normal people, confused and horrified.
The Everyman tends to be the audience surrogate since we're all just people: no matter how much we love to fantasise, we're all just people. The protagonists of most isekai are just normal every day boys or girls who get blasted into a new world with some gimmick. That's not to say they're all the same though (just compare Naofumi from RotSH and Kazuma from Konosuba). Otome as well tend to have an "everyman" protagonist and that brings the appeal of the genre - people can self-insert in the role of the protagonist and get to drool on hot guys and be drooled over by hot guys.
Hell, the Everyman character can be seen as badass depending on the context or when paired with an exceptional writer (which obviously, SPOP lacked). Some can argue Grant Danasty from Castlevania is an everyman when compared to his companions since he's human with no supernatural strength, power, or weapon - only got his acrobatics, knives, and wit. However, in that effect, Grant encompasses the most positive traits of humanity, *especially* in the face of a crisis - bravery, determination, wit, compassion, and loyalty. Trevor Belmont had the Vampire Killer, Sypha Belnades has magic, and Alucard is a dhampir, but Grant was just a human who tried to oppose Dracula first simply because Dracula was destroying the land and ruining people.
If Kyle is an Everyman character, this just gives us the perspective of this staff and how they view people - they view people as dirt. Relationships are shallow, and these people are hypocrites. They shirk away from actual kindness, and care for nobody but themselves. Kyle's treatment is evident of that - particularly Bow's hypocrisy towards him (yet he tried appealing to Catra). Also, I'm sick of deconstruction nowadays, especially in Western media. It's pretentious and, as you say, disingenuous - with the people involved knowing jack shit abut what makes deconstructions work.
#ShounenHeroKyleWhen
In my Star Wars X She-Ra series, Kyle will be Force Sensitive. I'm gonna make Kyle cool
He was always cool, he just needs better writers who won't abuse him. May the Force be with you while writing.
Kyle really did deserve better. I could see him and Bow being friends, but I blame that more on the bad writing for the show. I still want to write an idea where Kyle is the main character and hero. He deserves it
Yeah to be honest though I could see them being I guess friends it's a little upsetting that it has to be like that
@@wackywa76 Again the writers didn’t pay much attention to what they were doing
@@Shojoboy sigh if I have the money,time and,energy (and no school work)to recreate the whole show I would😕
@@wackywa76 I hear ya
@@wackywa76 Preach it.
what I think is that theirs something massively wrong with the entire she ra and the princesses of the power team. they all belonged in therapy instead of writing kids show that has multiple children end up in romantic relationships with people who abused them.
You know who the absolute classic Everyman is? Winston from Ghostbusters! Surrounded by scientists who are often lost in their own minds, Winston is the grounded person who points out obvious things the other miss. He's hardly boring.
Oh and that threesome suggestion from Stevenson. Ew. What the eff.
I really thought Kyle was gonna escape with bow in that one episode
and that fight adora had with lonnie in that same episode could’ve made a great story
This is another problem I had with this show: I feel it treated its male characters poorly. All of them were either weak, evil, or dumb. Yes, even Bow comes across as dumb [but then all the heroes do]. The only male character I respected was King Micah, and he barely had any screen time before he got possessed by Horde Prime. I get that this was supposed to be a Female Empowering show, but that doesn't necessarily have to come at the expense of the Male characters.
Fr Noelle can't write a strong male character
@@ValenArtsAnimation Noelle can't write ANYONE strong.
@@SuperCosmicMutantSquid She can only write herself and bad shipping.
@@ValenArtsAnimation Or female characters with the exception of Mara
did they seriously say kyle is meant to mock characters who are uninteresting and take the spotlight from characters much more suited for the role. what was your character you picked for the spotlight again, adora-2018 someone who's character cant be classified as drywood because that's giving them to much credit (this is for 2018 she-ra adora specifically)
congratulations you just did the thing you said you were mocking because kyle is way more interesting then the characters you focused on
Seriously the only thing constant about her is that she switches from being insecure to being confident.
Funny how the character they were using as a scapegoat as a 'take that' against the PAY-REE-ARC-EE ended up being my favorite.
Never reaching their full potential seems to be the most common thing for this series...
I think they did the show a great disservice by having the conquest of Etheria take place off-screen. It basically meant anyone who wasn't part of the main cast skipped the whole "having a character arc" thing, and just jumped to being different people. Kyle being the anti-Adora isn't inherently a bad thing; he's great in social situations, but crap in practical ones. We saw plenty of the latter, but they only really hinted at the former. In the ONE episode they got we saw the group dynamic shifting to those paradigms, but we never really got a payoff. They straight up SAID they had no intention of switching sides, but in the end they were still shown among the people getting an inspiring speech televised at them. I have to assume that, wherever they ended up going, they made connections with people despite themselves, and Kyle would likely have been the catalyst.
Charlie Chaplin's character the Little Tramp was one of the earliest examples of an Everyman as early as 1914 and his appeal continues even to this day, long after the Chaplin stopped playing the character in 1940. This is also one of the reasons why Chaplin was super reluctant to even talk as the Tramp when talkies came into the picture, because silent films made world-wide appeal all the easier.
This is so ironic because i find Adora so boring XD i didnt want kyle to find the sword i would want him to have his life scape to not be abuse and being kind :) i think people being kind and selfless was one of the things lacking in the show
I feel like every Catra stand is like oh she had a bad childhood and stuff feel like there's Kyle being bullied,abused emotionally,physically,mentality,and also gets Blame and in trouble the most he barely had any friends REAL friendship
Adora-Special person gets special powers.
Kyle-Normal person wants out of a war.
One of these is clearly more interesting than the other.
@@wackywa76 yees XD catra is just the worst
@@luma4902 oh :(
@@spacegirl5780 😬sorry not sorry you can like whatever characters you like but please just don't say that the person is homophobic or sexist for not liking a character you do
Kyle is MORE of a tragic character than Catra, he should’ve got an happy ending, not HER.🙄
Fr tho
I agree!
It's pretty sad that toxic fans of reboot Shera don't see the abusive behavior of Catra and her ship with Adora despite the major red flags on why Catradora would be an extreme toxic relationship.
He did get a happy ending, if you consider being the bottom for a big beefy lizard man a happy ending. (I reject the possibility that he could possibly be the top in that relationship).
@@ccggenius 🤣😭😭 NOOOO-
I honestly liked the show, but I agree with this: Kyle could have been a great character, they just don't gave him the right opportunities to shine
I wonder if anybody thought about it, but they could have kept Kyle in the Horde without making the heroes look like jerks. By making Bow try to save Kyle, but evertime something gets in the way (for example one of the two gets hit by a laser shot, and so on) until he finally makes it. Probably it would have worked better as a running gag.
Ironically Kyle ended up more interesting than Adora
It kind of feels like the crew were being sexist to Kyle. I mean, catra and adora get abused and we are shown that it's bad (give or take 🤷♀️) but if that abuse happens to Kevin, the man, it's funny. It was really uncomfortable.
I agree also it *Kyle
Also, apparently if the abuse is Catra abusing Adora, it's not bad, but a romantic cry for help.
@@wackywa76 whoops wasn't even aware I wrote Kevin lol
Realizing Kyle could have and should have been the main hero, its... it's really kind of heartbreaking.
All that needless abuse just so that privileged millennials and a wet paper towel could be the leads
Kyle was done dirty
Kyle deserved better. I think he should've had a character development similar to Adora but not exactly
Imagine if it would be the other way around. If Kyle was a girl and got bullied by boys.
Kyle is the only interesting character, which is funny, cause he's the only "non-token" character in the entire show. Also, the animation looks even worse than I remember, how did this get green lit again?
The animation for the old show was shit compared to the new one (at least characters area actually fluid in their movements, unlike the old show.)
The creators seem like those people from social media who perform mean spirited jokes on other people and try to play it off like it harmless fun
Seeing Kyle getting treated like dirt and a joke was uncomfortable. Like that a kid being treated unfairly regardless of their gender. But we're supposed to laugh at his misery?
I loved Kyle. He was voiced by one of my favorite VAs, he was cute, and I really liked those two episodes where he grows. It's really a shame the way the show treated him. He was abused for years, and a lot of it was from characters we're supposed to like, like Scorpia. And there's no payoff, no reflection, his arc just ends.
Well I wouldn't necessarily say Kyle, Lonnie and Rogelio are in a threesome as that'd be too inappropriate for a kids' show. I'd say they're trying to handfist in polyamory representation at the last minute
Oh and Angella deserved better too. I miss her
I might be overthinking this but that line about the sword made me notice Kyle resemblance to Wart from the Sword in the Stone and also Adam.
It feels like a real remix of the storyline With better plot and a better writers Adore and Kyle would have been siblings
@@wackywa76 Rumor is Kyle was going to be He-Man if they got the rights. (Thankfully they didn't).
It would be interesting to have separated twins go on parallel journeys to become heroes and reunite to fight the evil that caused they're separation. (I just realized that's almost the premise of Yashahime, but still.)
My first thought when I saw Kyle was "a slightly younger Luke Skywalker from A New Hope". Just compare him to the animated version of Luke in those Galaxy of Adventure shorts.
@@Paxchi I think it's the hair cut. Personality does have a pre-New Hope Luke vibe.
@@CoolG97 I could be reading too much into it, but I think it was intentional. Luke Skywalker is pretty much the iconic "everyman with a secret destiny" character for a lot of people, so why not have a stand-in for Luke that we can abuse to our hearts content?
he was voiced by pit. MY MAIN MAN
In all honesty, I liked Kyle, I wished they didn't treat him so badly throughout the series, and I wished he was handled better at the end of the series.
I guess you could say Kyle's life is 𝕥𝕙𝕖 𝕡𝕚𝕥𝕤.
Y'know I wish I didn't have to pull up this 'sadly' dead show again, but Spyro in Skylanders
Academy was more an less an Right Example of how one subverts an Every-Man trope.
Cause for one he was raised into thinking he was special only come into his own that he
wasn't completely all that, and to go his own journey of self-discovery.
(That's leads to his own Near Self-Destruction.)
Meanwhile I'm stunned they even considered Kyle as an Lead-Man character with how
his character wound being treated throughout!
If you can't tell I'm pretty fed up with Netflix in general.
Kyle is the only character in this god awful show I actually like
I hate that they made him have that type of relationship with the two, especially since it's a kid's show. Like what in the world??
More like "who would even CARE?"
The conversation between Kyle and Bow was just one of many of this shows failed attempts at humor. They did have an endgame besides having the abusive cat girl make out with her victim.
I never thought Kyle was the everyman archetype. I thought he was supposed to be someone like Squidward. Or Butters with his happy go lucky personality removed.
Actually by what they described as an Everyman, kinda seemed more like the "Light Novel Guy" archetype, you know, that overpowered dude who is extremely bland and everything that happens to him in the plot is from a check-list? I don't really know what media they were talking about there as a reference.
And by what they said, "Kyle would be the one to wield the sword in other shows". I really don't see that, probably because we barely saw much of him, but if he had gone with Adora, he would have taken Bows to place if anything. Actually, it would be interesting to see if Kyle had power, from the sword or power he grew himself... I guess one parallel I can draw from this statement and Catra's trial is that it was sort of a self-burn because if that would have happened we would have a better story.
Kyle and Bow are proof this show stars bullies who get praised for throwing punches without their vaginas getting in the way.
In all seriousness, all the behind the scenes stuff revealed just how much of a disconnect there was between the team and the property they're working on. I never cared for the old series (was just too before my time), but they would have used Kyles mistreatment to showcase the villains as, well, villainous. The heroes meeting him and treating him with respect would be a season finale, and possible a status quo change (and a chance for a Hero-Kyle action figure to be designed for next season).
The old She-Ra and He-Man tried to sell toys and offer *_very_* basic but still valuable life lessons.. She-Ra and the Abuse of Power tries to sell toxic lifestyles while laughing about how correct it is.
That’s my thoughts about the series in the nutshell. Say what you want about the 80’s version. Call it toy-selling, cheap, cheesy, WHATEVER. At least they never promoted toxic relationships and broken morality to children.
I think I’d rather take the old cheesy stuff over something that can actually be harmful to children in its messages.