No one had more disdain for their audience than WCW | Wrestling Observer Radio
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
- Dave Meltzer shares his thoughts on the first part of the 'Who Killed WCW' documentary.
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Crazy that Bischoff is still blaming the finish of starrcade on Sting’s mental state. Hogan had creative control, Bischoff was a Hogan yes man, Nick Patrick was given conflicting finishes, but yeah, it was Sting’s attitude. Gimme a break.
Sting even admits he was in a bad place during that time with drugs and his marriage falling apart. He could have checked out and went to rehab any day. That didn't work for Hogan, brother
The one thing that Eric has repeatedly pointed out, that I do agree with is that Sting didn't look good in the match at the time. I remember watching the show and thinking Sting looked much less impressive than I expected. Bischoff likes to say "he didn't even tan" and Conrad likes to mock him, but he just means he didn't even put in low bar effort to look good at the time. The regular fast count was ridiculous though. There's no way to defend Hogan was looking over for WCW by doing that. It was a pure ego move.
Sting’s mental state had nothing to do with the fast count not happening. Even if hogan decided to have the screwy finish, it at least made sense because that was wcw at the time, that’s what nwo did. What doesn’t add up is why there was no fast count. That was all hogan and Bischoff.
Bischoff blames the bad reaction on the finish being convoluted, and not the fact that there was a normal count and Bret had to just pretend it was a fast count. He wants to blame anyone and anything except hogan’s ego and his own willingness to capitulate.
@@lordsoth5276 why didn't Sting kick out sooner then? It's not like he didn't know what a fast count sounded like.
I liked Cornette's line: "A mass murder in reverse. A bunch of murderers on one victim."
The fact Bischoff tried to blame everyone but himself for the Starccade 97 finish is hilariously on brand.
He knows nothing of accountability
You can say that about all the promoters from that eras that have podcasts/out of the business now. Vince McMahan had that mind set, Russo did as well, as well as Cornette, and many others from way back when. It is just sad and pathetic to hear.
@@nicholaschristie8699 Cornette has been extremely self-critical about his time running SMW, on his podcasts, back when he mostly talked about classic stuff and his own history, instead of current shows. Including in-depth analysis on how he extended the regional territory too far and "overstretched" it, how he let people like Jake Roberts or Tim Horner screw him over and steal from him for too long (the classic ring truck story, for example), his mistakes and diffculties with his television product that became his biggest problem, the problems he could have avoided by just not starting a promotion in the middle of the biggest recession in the wrestling business up to that point, instead of continuing just as a performer for a while longer. And how he treated some people, like K.C. O'Connor, because he was completely stressed out to the breaking point.
He criticises a lot of the things he did in the WWF quite often, too. Especially his initial involvement with the "NWA invasion" angle that came years too late and neevr made sense. One of the several reasons he doesn't want to be in the WWE HOF is, that he considers his work there to be vastly inferior to pretty much everything he did in JCP and OVW.
He takes all the credit for the success but none of the blame for its downfall.
Nick Patrick couldn’t do a fast count because Sting wasn’t in a good mental state 😂
WWE from 2009 to 2022 is calling.
Cling onto it as much as you can lol
@@kamfisher1714 - I feel like WWE from 2006 (when they brought back ECW and they reanimated its corpse only to KILL it again) up until like 2013 was absolute dog shit. Things started to turn around in 2014 with the rise of Daniel Bryan and the Yes Movement. But in 2021 post Pandemic is when they really started to heat back up
Yea sure ok smh
Yeah it wasn’t as bad as latter day WCW.
@@kamfisher1714 So you admit it
I can remember watching WCW in 2000 and being completely baffled. It was a hard hard watch.
I remember Mike Awesome going over there and thinking he was gonna be huge, and then they turned him into a Disco guy 🤣
@@drobinson-uo7ic Mike Awesome could have been a top monster heel. His in-ring work was incredible, really agile for a big guy.
WCW dropped the ball hard on a lot of guys.
WCW's biggest problem was the backstage nonsense. AEW has it as well, but in a very different way. When the foundation is bad, everything else suffers.
@@drobinson-uo7ic Blame Russo for that
I was at wcw sin 😂it’s a bad show when Sid breaking his leg was the most interesting part
That doesn't work for me, brother!
Just like any top guy has said
@kamfisher1714 but Hogan had creative control.
@@tizzytank579 A lot of top guys did without paperwork.
That joke is old ya mook😒
the topic of wcw has been done to death. the only new insight would be from turner execs
What topic should be covered then?
I always thought the best thing for WCW was not to resign Hogan in 1998 and have Bret Hart as the top guy in WCW
If they had done that, they would not have had Goldberg beating Hogan for the title.
Bret is only 4 years younger than Hogan. And he was never a draw like Hogan was.
@@quentinkaasa47 Bret was the top heel coming off the Montreal screw job the story speaks for itself and WCW talent roster was loaded and sting was red hot WCW would have been better of with out Hogan
@@Judy-xu1gsThat's objectively wrong. By all metrics Hogan was the top heel in the business in late 1997. Starrcade did around 700,000 PPV buys, while Survivor Series a month prior got a comparatively meager 250,000 buys.
Sting was red hot due to the story between him and the nWo. But he was never treated as THE guy whenever he was champion, and when he was the ace of the company in 1992 WCW was doing its worst ever business. Sting was never the draw that guys like Hogan, Goldberg, Savage and Flair were. Neither was Bret.
Brett hart is hilarious. The trash talking negative comments 🤣
I love it cuz he keeps it real he doesn’t sugarcoat anything lol he always hated WCW
Out of everyone in wrestling whose bread and butter is being negative all the time, Bret is the only one who I will tolerate
@@woebegone_jabroni - It’s funny you say that because most wrestlers (especially from back then in the 80’s/90’s) almost always come off as bitter and angry. But for the most part it’s due to their own egos or them thinking they were worth more than what they were making *coughwarriorcough* but Bret is the only one that I actually believe. Wrestling is a sport built upon lies but anytime Bret speaks I feel like everything Bret says is genuine.
He said thanks for nothing, he had a 9 mil contract in 98. Let me have that
@@westnile21 When I read Bret's book the only part that came off as bullshit was when he talked about how sad he felt about constantly cheating on his wife. lol
They didnt really have to give hogan everything, Vince wasnt going to take him back and his acting career was going nowhere.
You're missing the point. Vince wasn't really knocking on Hogan's door to take him back, but WCW needed Hogan to co-sign on them in order for them to be taken seriously and compete directly against _Raw_ . And for them to do that, they were in the position of having to offer Hogan whatever it took for him to sign with them. Hogan had all the bargaining power going into that situation.
When his first contract was coming to an end Hogan was contemplating returning to the WWF and they were going to make him the new leader of DX. Vince was always willing to bring Hogan back. He was the face of the entire industry.
I agree that WCW vastly overrated Hulk's bargaining power...I'd argue that Vince would've taken Hulk back but not at the rate Hogan was looking for, that's for sure.
Wait. So I’m confused Dave at one point says that there were execs that did want wrestling but later in the clip says that the exes didn’t want wrestling. Which is it?
It's Dave. It wasn't even later, the statements were back-to-back. He dismisses the idea that the executives didn't want wrestling, immediately admits the top executives didn't want wrestling, then "proves" his dismissal because there were other (non-top?) executives who did like wrestling (so obviously it isn't true that *all* the executives didn't want wrestling.)
Dave only makes sense in his own head.
Maybe in wrestling, WCW might be, but in general disdain for the audience, I think Kathleen Kennedy has them beat. 😉
Explain
@@WillS724 They're a thin skinned person who can't handle non straight white males in their sci fi.
Kathleen Kennedy has been running the Star Wars franchise for Disney since George Lucas sold it in 2012. She’s botched it up to the point that Disney recently shut down all future film projects for SW films. She also has accused SW fans who criticize the new movies and television shows of being racist and misogynistic. She’s a piece of work.
Disdain for the audience isn't just a wrestling thing. It's pretty broad in TV.
I feel like Goldberg will point the finger both at Russo and Nash being that Nash booked himself to kill his streak.
Starrcade '98 took place in December. Nash didn't become booker until February the next year & the first thing he did was book himself to lose to Rey Mysterio. It would've been either Sullivan or Terry Taylor who booked Nash to beat Goldberg.
@@malikamadou3433 That doesn't fit the narrative brother SHHHHHHH
The blame can go around to a lotta people...but just like Dixie Carter, and Tony Khan ...it comes back to Eric and Hogan...creative control..
No one had more disdain for their audience?
Uh...did you watch WWE in 2013 when Daniel Bryan was insanely over? They did everything they could to try to make him as irrelevant as they could.
The year they made him beat John Cena for the WWE championship before the "Yes movement" ever existed? Yeah, total burial. 🙄
Vince Russo was putting oil on a fire
Dave… nobody wanted it gone. The top guys wanted it gone but nobody else. 😂
I know at my company it doesn’t matter what I want, the employees want, the supervisors want….. if the top guys want something they usually get it. 😂
My takeaway is that Hogan and Sting didn't even go over the match (mind you the biggest match in the companies history with a 17 month build) until the day of. Once Sting realized Hogan didn't want to prepare in advance and just call the match in the ring, Sting became suspect of Hogan doing what was best for business (and rightly so). Hence why Bischoff use Sting's "lack of engagement" and "not having a tan" as a scapegoat for changing the finish. This likely had massive ripple effects down the card because if this could happen to Sting after the biggest push in history, it could happen to anyone. Conversely, WWF paid off Austin's push with a clean win months later at WM 14 with everyone involved ensuring Shawn Michaels did business.
It was suspected that HBK was going to try something So much so that the story is Taker told & was waiting for HBK behind the curtain for him if he didn't play ball correct
I think that they had Bret Hart there because the concept was they wanted to try doing a screwing finish, trying to repeat Montreal. They wanted it to be a controversy with the fast count and so forth. But referee Patrick has always been a slow counter. So maybe for him THIS was a fast count!
@johnnyskinwalker4095 I agree. Its very obvious that WCW didn't have road agents like Pat Patterson on staff to help lay out the match and match finish. If booked the right way, Starrcade 97 should have properly paid off the Sting v Hogan storyline while planting the seeds for Hogan v Bret at Starrcade 98. If WCW does proper long-term booking Starrcade 98 could have been Sting v Goldberg (Title v Streak), and Bret v Hogan.
@@DavidCurry1981 Yea with all the stars they had, imagine all the good feuds and money matches they could have done. But they booked on the fly basically. Hogan vs Bret should have been a Starrcade main event for sure. Sting-Goldberg as well. Sting vs Bret. Years ago I wrote in a forum I had written a plan WCW could have had, keeping the goof stuff they done but weaving it in a more structured way and avoiding the mistakes. Like have a plan how to end the nWo. I would have had the Raven's Flock take the nWo down and become the next group. Sting vs Raven at Starrcade was in the plans for further down the line. Also they should have done a follow up to the whole storyline with Sting recruiting guys. Remember when he came out of the crowd to recruit Macho Man and then DDP. But for no reasons this was abandonned.
Kevin Sullivan said it best "Death by a 1,000 cuts"
Good to see Dave is prepared for his own show
“Dick Cheatham” sounds like a character Russo came up with!
Monday night wars killed not only wcw, but also wrestling. EB will be hated forever for this.
I never heard someone talk so much yet say so little than Dave Meltzer 😂. Truly impressive mumbling
How tf does he know what Turner executives were thinking about WCW. None of them were talking to Meltzer
@@shaneg4383 he heard opinions from a couple of jobbers and passed it off as insider knowledge.
He doesn’t mumble, he rambles
Russo has argued that ratings actually went up when he was booking which appears to have been the case.
ratings briefly went up based on interest from WCW hiring him away from Vince, but they quickly dropped again.
@@efs120 Russo argues he was only there until January/Feb 2000 and by that point WCW was getting 3s in the ratings and things only dropped back down after he went home and the committy took over... He admits his second time as writer was a disaster because he and Bischoff were burned out and the ship was already sunk
@@neilefc877 the ratings are public knowledge, you can see for yourself. The ratings were going back down by the end of his first tenure.
Yet still up almost a million on the four weeks before he joined. Like you say publicly available @@efs120
If Russo booked AEW the ratings would definitely go all the way up because Tony Khan Sucks Bro.
2023 and 2024 Aew is calling
Time-Warner killed WCW. When the company was imploding, they said F it and sold it to Vince.
I don't think Nash deserves much blame. Nash did have the book when the numbers collapsed and his booking was at times REALLY REALLY bad, but in the end Eric had final say. Eric gave him the job, Eric didn't create the structure to reign in his worse tendency, and Eric didn't replace him when it was clear business was cratering. In the end Eric along with Hulk have to get most of the credit for the rise to the peak (Road Wild 1998 would be my pick for the high water mark due to the huge publicity for the Leno angle), and Eric has to take most of the blame for the cratering up until his firing in 1999.
Meltzer always had an obsession with Nash. He hates him with a passion. Just read all the old Wrestling Observers Newsletter, it's insane.
Nash's ideas were complete garbage when he was the "head booker". He didn't help with anything, he made everything worse. And after that he behaved like a complete asshole on screen, showing up drunk or high, making the dumbest unfunniest jokes to just amuse himself, sabotaging segments, and making it blatantly clear that he had nothing but disdain for the product, the company, and the audience. He can piss all the way off!
I didn't know it at the time - and I only learned about this and his post-"head booker" behaviour later - but Kevin Nash's time with "the pencil" was when I stopped watching WCW regularly every week. He was instrumental in driving me and hundreds of thousands others off and killing our fandom. To me, he was just as guilty as ATM-Eric and Kunt Hogan.
@@henrygvidonas9573 I don't think Nash was sabotaging anything. He did what he thought was good even though it wasn't. I think he was trying too much to do WWF Crash TV. I liked how they reinvented Macho Man with the women as his lackeys. Also Nash himself was a good babyface top guy. He's always been funny but never had the chance to really show it, esp as a babyface and I think it was working. I also liked DDP as heel champ. And the whole Hummer storyline. The main thing I hated though was the whole Flair in an asylum thing.
TK has no distain for the marks... Because HE IS ONE 😂
Thanks guys
That's a "great" comment.
I'm not sure this idea holds up considering nobody hates marks more than another Mark.
Is Tony Khan in the room with us now?? This is about WCW.
Go away and get a life
I was at the Nitro in '98 in St. Louis - during the build to Starrcade. We had a massive blizzard here that night, and WCW still managed to put about 40,000 people in the TWA Dome. It's a shame to see how far they fell so quickly after that.
Love how half the people in the comments somehow made this about AEW even though no one mentioned it.
Get a hobby.
Its because AEW shills are sensitive and always react badly to anything negative.
Yep. As of June 7th 2024, it's all the same regurgitated crap. Half of these people don't even watch AEW.
@@Shadowjester1985 So that means that all the AEW shills who shit on WWE much watch WWE every week...
@@MotherHen2012 Who cares? You don't need to defend WWE.
@@duckmercy11 where did i defend them?
Stupidity doesn't mean disdain. They made a lot of crappy stuff over the years. But it would be lying to say Bischoff for example did not try his damnest to give fans everything in his power. From 1995 to mid 1999, WCW Nitro was the best time I ever had watching wrestling cause you felt like these guys pulled all the stops to multiply awesome shit. It was like having a birthday every week with countless surprises and swerves. There was always guys jumping ship. And the nWo was the most captivating storyline ever. Meanwhile you would turn the channel on the opposition and they literally would insult your intelligence with corny crap.
That's a crazy headline. Literally WWF. Then, Now, And Forever disdaining.
We had guys teleporting in AEW so what was that Dave said about about promotors not respecting their audience?
Listening to Dave about this put me higher on the spectrum
As a longtime fan of WCW who grew up watching the mon night wars it was both awesome & f.d up how messed up internally they really were but if you look behind the scenes at all wrestling promotions it's alot of the same sad bs
Welcome to wrestling fans we love it & at times really hate it 😳🤦♂️😆🤣
Have a good day all wrestling fans 👍
F the haters
And there are some people who proclaim Bischoff as some sort of prodigal wrestling genius when he criticises anything AEW do now. AEW certainly isn't perfect but he goes out of his way to make digs and he's nothing but a hack who got lucky when the Kliq and Hogan jumped ship.
WCW didn't beat WWE by luck for 83 straight weeks guy. Bischoff is in a position to give the advice and the criticism because WCW went from working in a Disney studio to selling NBA-sized arenas within the same amount of time that AEW has existed. So again, that doesn't happen by luck. Tony Khan wouldn't produce nearly the same results if he had the Outsiders and Hogan because he is a buffoon who has convinced himself that he is a genius.
@@decepticonxhunter4850 Bischoff absolutely deserves credit for pushing for a live wrestling show on Monday Nights. It changed wrestling.
But his only good angle was borrowed from Japan and he had NO IDEA how to handle his talent or when to pull the plug on the NWO. Bischoff changed WCW, revolutionized WCW, and helped kill WCW.
But that doesn't mean his commentary has ANY relevance twenty years later.
@@glenndallas7171 exactly this. There's a reason everyone got sick of Vince and how he booked stuff. Because it was dated. Hell, even he couldn't do it as well as he used too. Bischoff had some lucky breaks and hasn't a clue about what makes a modern wrestling show. He's trying to stay relevant when the world has moved on. Even WWE aren't booking like that anymore and that's with HHH in charge. Cornette is just as bad. Hankering for the days of territories and drug addicted wrestlers who die young.
@@decepticonxhunter4850 "a buffoon who has convinced himself he is a genius." So Kahn and Bischoff do have something in common.
@@glenndallas7171you bring up two crucial points.
Even though Bischoff tries to deny it now, the nWo angle was very much ripped from Japan. A lot of people believe nWo was some mad genius idea when it wasn't. Unless it's been removed or edited, there is a soundbite of him saying that on the Monday Night Wars show on WWE network.
And Bischoff is not relevant in 2024. He's the proverbial high school jock that won't shut up about scoring the game winning touchdown. There's a reason why he's currently not working for any wrestling promotion at the moment.
Is Dave and Bryan made about Guy Evan’s involvement
Dave and Alvarez: some of the wcw stuff was embarrassing. Remember the magic mirror and them running people off roads.
Recently in AEW. We have had "blood" falling from the ceiling into the centre of the ring. We have had its top stars having a fucking musical number over dinner and of course, we have had the same dude run over and set on fire, only to miraculously get up and get the win.
I wonder if either called those things "embarrassing"
I mean it’s kinda hard to respect your audience when they act they way they do lol ngl
Dave- I told Eric in 98 that hogans shelf life was over
2001- hogan has the biggest match with rock in wrestlemania history
What does that have to do with the fact that he became completely stale in WCW in 1998/99, just like the rest of the nWo thing. I remember Hogan coming to the ring every week, doing the same crappy nothing promo that felt like it was five hours long, for MONTHS. Because I sat through that shite every week until I couldn't take it anymore. I didn't see him come out in the red-and-yellow for the first time in years anymore, because I had already stopped watching before that.
The WCW audience in 1998 and the WWF audience in 2001 were largely not the same people. Most WCW fans went away and never came back. They didn't switch to the WWF, they gave up on wrestling altogether.
People wanted to see hulk back in wwf in 2002 for nostalgia and to see him against talents he hadn’t been with before. In wcw he was having horrendous feuds with warrior, a horrible fake president run, and finger poke end of 98 early 99.. come on.
If you ever wanted a textbook example of how patient of a co-host Bryan is, it doesn’t come any better than the first 30sec of this clip. Absolute radio death right there.
Can Meltzer string a sentence?
Hiw is the magic mirror a embarrassment but AEW had a teleportation on tv? Nothing said about that ever.
Get a life outside of talking about AEW. God you people are pathetic.
Bryan wrote a book on wcw why is asking Dave ?
Cause Dave was pretty much his only source of information, regardless of truth.
@@quentinkaasa47 That's a lie.
@@quentinkaasa47 I think it was another guy he wrote the book with.
@@m.adampriest7719RD Reynolds of WrestleCrap. Another guy who couldn't be considered a journalist in any fashion, and who also heavily relied on Dave for any information, regardless of truth.
@@quentinkaasa47 oh no. I thought that was like the professional writer that could create the book from Bryan’s notes. 😅
Does dave notice that was he is saying also aplies to aew??...
No one has more disdain for their audience than Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alvarez.
... if you believe that, yet you still watch and engage and comment anyways, doesn't that mean you're at least as dumb as people who watched WCW 2000?
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Warrior
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lawl
This is what Dave is so great at.
A true wrestling historian. This guy doesn’t understand professional wrestling and the business. This guy rated Mone last match higher than Bret Owen WMX.
But damn this guy studied the business like no one else.
No he didn't, tf are you talking about?
I just looked it up. Bret vs. Owen got 4.75. Mercedes vs. Willow got 4.5.Why do people keep lying about this?
@@duckmercy11 the fact that that match is rated that close to Bret Vs Owen is a joke!
The idea that Stings "Crow" character needed a tan is absurd. If anything a gothy "Crow"-esque character should be pale as shit, ala 90s Taker. Brandon Lee damn sure didnt have a tan in the movie they were aping.
I'm not even hating, but I think it's time for Dave to consider retirement. It's been a great run.
Bryan's distain for him is obvious. He sounds so frustrated every time he talks to him.
@@seangalvin4582 Yeah, he didn't used to get this annoyed.
"Disdainment"?
LOL
I think at this point it would be more interesting to take a giant poll about why and when people stopped watching rather than try to look at the final years as a whole and blame one person. I know I put up with lots of crap through the Hogan era but as soon as Nash had the book and made everything about himself (World War 3 98 being the breaking point) was when I actually stopped watching
Nash hadn't even been a singles champion by the time you claim you stopped watching, and he was quickly becoming the hottest thing in WCW.
@@quentinkaasa47 he was a month away from ending the streak and he single handedly emptied an entire ring at the ppv. He was never over as a babyface in WCW, let alone "the hottest thing". Did you actually watch that era or are you just getting history from Nash's science fiction podcast?
@@jansappNash's Wolfpac group was the hottest thing WCW had in 1998 next to Goldberg. By the end of that year the audience was turning on Goldberg more and more because of his padded streak and because of his lengthy title reign that a lot of fans felt like he didn't deserve. When Starrcade happened, Nash got an enormous pop from the audience for ending the streak, even after receiving help from Scott Hall. That's just how popular he was. And when Nash became World champion people were wanting to see him fight Hogan. That was the biggest "dream" money drawing match they could do after Starrcade '98, but they blew it with the finger poke of doom moment.
Is dave tripping if the execs don’t want wrestling on the network then they wouldn’t have it and i believe ted turner had no say in the company by this point after the merger?
Dave thinking he knows more than people that were actually there is fascinating
Ratings were up during russo, and dropped nearly a million viewers when he left.
Bischoff still blaming Starrcade 97 on Sting is wild; but equally crazy that Dave is still peddling the idea it died because of creative alone. Even after the Nitro book actually presented a researched and nuanced opinion both are still peddling narrative.
Haven't watched a Dave video in a couple years and he looks like he aged 15 years.
Ummm.......uhhhhh......ummmmm....uhhh I don't know
Speaking of “shelf life” that could be said about Tony Khan and everyone else in AEW
Meltzer talking about how stupid the mirror was with Hogan…. Meanwhile loving PWG and Chuck Taylor!
Totally out of touch and out of context comment. When has Dave EVER rated a comedy match from PWG or Chuck Taylor highly?
Often they get no rating or one star.
Dave has ALWAYS touted PWG based on its top matches, which are presented as highly technical, serious competition.
Start with Bischoff being a habitual liar who won't just admit he was a Hogan 🍆 rider. He forgot on his podcast that he said Hogan didn't really use his creative control because on the show he admits he did & tries to blame Sting as to why he used it during their Starcade match.
You know, uhm, you know, uhm, whatever, uhm you know. $9.99 please
Vince McMahon had more disdain for his audience in 2018
Bryan Alvarez and RD Reynolds ten years ago: WCW was ultimately killed because a top executive didn't want wrestling.
Dave Meltzer now: It's revisionist history that the executives didn't want wrestling.
Dave Meltzer also now: The top executives didn't want wrestling.
The only creative control wrestlers should have is move sets. Let the management manage.
Because that worked so well for Terry Taylor. 😄
It's funny that Meltzer has no problem talking about Bischoff being a pawn for Hogan, but he'd never apply the same circumstances to Tony Khan's relationship with Jericho and the Bucks.
Because it’s nowhere near the same except in your own head.
Well no... Bischoff and Hogan did not give Dave respect and access.
Not to mention that both of these clowns are outward and openly friends with the Bucks lol
What does AEW have to do with the contabiut WCW
Get a life
If calling them a mark is disdain tword wrestling fans then I disdain them all lol
Robocop is totally at fault
I'd blame it on Chucky.
Look at the strength of Robo Cop Bob...Jim Ross 😅😂
“No one had more disdain for their audience than wcw”?
Wwe 2010-2022
It started with Crockett and his bad accounting. Then sold it to Turner who made it part of TBS instead of a personally owned company away from the TBS portfolio. Bishoff had one good idea. Then he added everyone and their neighbor to be in the NWO and it was unwatchable. Vince Russo was just awful. Hogan, Hall and Nash, Flair did not know when to hang it up. Goldberg had and has zero wrestling talent. Jeff Jarrett is unwatchable. Did we really need the Nitro girls? Yes, they were pretty but it was all cost and no return on investment. Then finally all the corporate mergers with TBS and Time and AOL. Ted Turner loved wrestling. But once you get it into the corporation there are too many people involved and if it's hurting the bottom line it has to go. If Turner made WCW a family business then maybe it would have survived. Then again, without television I doubt it. Of course the lack of building new talent hurt. This is why if you look at it, Harley Race was the smartest and the best for business. Race knew when to walk away for the good of the business. Yes, I know he did a stint with WWF for a pay day as a wrestler. Then he was a manager so the younger talent had their shot at the business. Flair, Hogan, Hall and Nash had no idea when to leave. Then all of them show up with Bishoff at TNA. What a disaster that was.
Want the sad truth? Correct me if I am wrong but at one point and at the same time I believe WCW had under contract at the same time , Perfect, Bret, Owen, Beniot and Eddie. WCW had no idea what to do with these people who are only the best wrestlers ever in this industry with Perfect being the best.
vkm hated his audience far more
"WCW was great. Great." - Tony Khan
Go away and get a life
Man... Dave really doesnt stop talking. Just loves to flap his gums & not allow a conversation.
Other than AEW that is lol
"People that don't study history, they make the same mistakes" couldn't Meltzer apply this to Tony Khan?
He could, but he won't. He is close personal friends with Tony by his own admission. Dave almost certainly is helping book the shows on some level, even if just by being a sounding board.
His preferred style of wrestling is failing and he can't accept it.
@@RavenGlenn you're honestly a moron. They have been very critical of AEW for about a year now.
@@RavenGlennwhat does Tony Kahn have to do with the conversation about WCW
Tony Khan has more distain for his audience, I mean Orange Cassidy is a prime case of it. And the midget Buck Brothers. Fan punishment.
Can't wait for 2nd episode next Tuesday
Bryan really needs a better co host. Dave's past his expiration date. And no this isn't an attack on Dave, dude hasn't had the best time of it for months. He sucks at radio, he sucks even more at journalism. But kudos to those who love him
the rock is so out of place in this WCW doc 😂
Hogans creative control killed the company. The match with sting really was it bthe 1 year long build to the most anticipated match of the year at starrcade wcw's largest gate and ppv buy rate and not only did they not deliver but hogan to dominste the match & pin sting clean on a botched fast count. Whomever put that match together is the reason why vince kept pat patterson. But after probably being the worst let down they got lucky with goldberg. Super lucky because how do you sign bret hart but none of them, not hall not nash not hogan wants to work with him. He asked to get booker t they said no and had nothing for the biggest star coming out of wwe. And this all really relates to hogan. Yes he helped wcw but then he killed it. But also nash was head booker. You job to rey mysterio but dont want to work with bret? Really? So you pimp bret into coming so you can get more money fron ur favored nations clause (nash admitted its 100% true) to put him on the sidelines.
Say wat u want about russo but he tried to create new stars & did a great job making booker t the top guy. Something hogan never would have signed off on. So it was 100% hogans creative control & egos. Thsts why brad siegel hates wrestlers but its their fault for giving hogan, hall & nash thst much power.
How can dave say with a straight face that russo was as bad as he made out when he love tony khans booking which is 100times more unbelievable unlogical makes no sense at all and just pure terrible and should mayb stick to making matches but nothing else because he just can’t do it and need to swallow his pride before he does even more damage
There’s definetly some yes men from that WCW branch but why does Dave try to act like he knows every single thing that happened during their existence?
What stuck out to me is what I was said about the fall of wcw is exactly what people hear today about aew
... Hogan has creative control in AEW?!?
The young bucks do. And they don't even draw. @@JeremyBearimy913
@@JeremyBearimy913 No, but Jericho does, de facto. With unbearably bad results.
When did people ever chant "please retire" at Hogan in WCW?
Everyone knows Vince Russo killed WCW 💯
Vince McMahon sent Vince Russo to kill WCW
WCW was already massively damaged before he ever showed up. Hundreds of thousands of fans stopped watching before October 1999. I was one of them. During 1998 "Nitro" became more and more tedious, stupid, and bad as it dragged on from week to week, but a lot of us kept watching, according to the numbers. In early 1999 and onwards, it became BRUTALLY bad, it was like they were punishing the audience for watching. You started to feel insulted and dirty for still watching that garbage, like a sucker. Over the summer and towards autumn, the decisive fan exodus happened that led to Bischoff getting sent home until March 2000. I think that's how it went down.
I only remember gradually watching less and less of the show and increasingly changing the channel in 1999, then not tuning in _every_ week anymore, then just not watching at all for two or three weeks, until I had dropped out altogether. I occasionally watched for a few minutes here and there in 2000, but the next commercial break was always the end of those experiments.
You don't fall out of love with something in an instant, it fades away over time.
(Ooohhh, so _dramatic..._ I just had better things to do.)
Can we vote Dave off the island..
These trash talk WCW alot. I watched the show during that period and didn’t feel insulted even at the bad stuff. It was a creative and business mess but wwf was in one for a couple of years before austin 316. Like come on now. The WWE monopoly was way worse for fans than wcw 2000
So... Eric Bischoff gets to lie on the documentary? That was my thought exactly as I watched the 1st episode. Bischoff not only doubled down on Hogan, until he got fired from WCW, but he TRIPLED down on Hogan again in TNA, and helped run THEM out of business too. The an is truly a MAST ER at destroying wrestling promotions.
The smartest guy who ever lived, still can't set up a proper microphone
The wcw cow milking never stops
Didn't WWE have an invisible man match as well? I remember a Vince and Shane vs. Shawn Michaels and "God" match. Doesn't that count?
Tony Khan & the Cucamonga Kids-hold our hats.
It’s so amusing how Dave and Bryan always blame AEW’s dwindling popularity solely on WWE getting hot, but they consistently apply the complete opposite logic to WCW losing popularity to WWF. According to them, it was almost entirely because of bad booking, while WWF getting hotter than literally ever played a minimal role. This is because they’re friends with the people running AEW, whereas they’re mortal enemies with many of the guys who ran WCW. So their read of the two situations are conveniently the complete opposite. This is how these guys operate. The events of the last few years have shone a bright spotlight on that.
Wcw still had millions of viewers at the end
Have you not seen the clips they've posted the past few weeks? They've been on AEW's ass for a while now on how the show is being booked. You super WWE fans really just say anything.
@@stilnoxVisionsDave has literally been defending AEW in high-pitched squealing shouts anytime Alvarez even questions AEW's booking.
@@benjaminkelln8597 you know he doesn't rate matches against each other, right? Especially given how wildly different AITA is compared to other matches. He's said that a thousand times cause you people cry about it thinking that, because match A got 4 and 1/2 stars it's BETTER than another match in a different company that got 4 stars. Match ratings are solely encapsulated to that match itself.
@@RavenGlenn - then explain the past month of critical videos towards AEW that this channel has posted. Dave isn't even in all of them. You people are so damn strange.
I really lost interest as they went from 2 hours live a week, to 5 hours a week.
say whatever you will about vkm but I never felt robbed by his companies effort after I had spent my money on his product. Even on some garbage shows. WCW was total opposite. WCW was company that took your money, half-assed it, then laughed at you while they celebrated each other for half assing it! That is what killed WCW. WCW fucked over its paying customers 1 too many times and so eventually the paying customers stopped paying... self included
Someone who ordered all but 1 ppv in 1997 and the first 5 ppv in 1998. Eric Bicsoff had no respect for the paying customer. That killed WCW
That is not how I felt watching their product. I always like Vince took the fans for morons while WCW always gave the fans everything they've got.
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 During 97-98?
-Ummmm uhhhhh ummmmm & uhhhh... ya see...uhhhhhhh ...ya know ummmmmm, I mean uhhhh
how can anyone listen to this?... take a speech class. It's unbearable
Dave Meltzer.... The No Charisma Enigma.
Ouch 😂
Of course Uncle Dave had to slightly had to acknowledge for a secomd what AEW is going through but immediately defend them it's not as bad. Nice piece of ass kissing!
I'm enjoying the series even if we all have our own conclusions and a ton of us lived through it. It's fun to remember things we witnessed.
Like how is he still relevant all he does is contradict himself and repeat the things over and over again
But AEW loves a r3t4rded fraction of it's fanbase. That's just as bad
First!
69th!
Wwe is garbage