The likely reason they instruct you to start with the hardest file is so that you don't dull all of your softer files just to find out that your knife is 65 HRC.
I actually saw a Rockwell tester at an estate sale many years ago. It was $30. Thirty damn dollars. Didn’t know what it was at the time. The memory of leaving it there without buying it will forever haunt me.
I worked as a professional material tester in a steel factory in Germany and let me tell you this: Your testing method might be MORE accurate than the rockwell testing machines, if you get a set of files which is more accurate than 5 HRc steps (given that these files really have the hardness they are supposed to have and their own hardness is NOT tested with the Rockwell method itself, lol). In the ISO norm the testing machines have +/-1.5 HRc tolerance and even when we calibrated the machine using special testing plates (with different hardness) such a plate which is supposed to be (e.g.) 55 HRc +/-0,2 was ending up with values between 54,5 and 55,5 HRc, which is totally normal, since the ISO norm (6508-2) claims that a tolerance of 0,8 Rockwell units is acceptable for a testing plate (which is used for calibrating the machine). Now we had an old rockwell hardness tester in our company and modern machines might be more accurate, but the point is - if you for instance order a custom made knife and you want 60 HRc it is totally possible that (even if nothing goes wrong with the heat treatment) you get one which has 58,5 HRc on the lower end or 61,5 HRc on the upper end and the testing machine would be totally alright, it is just an inaccurate testing method. What I recommend is measuring the hardness in Vickers and convert it to Rockwell, in my experience it is much more accurate and foolproof, because Rockwell testing might include human error when fixing the pre(paration) pressure (before the main force is applied, the method requires some tension). We were doing this all the time in the factory, because Rockwell is such an inaccurate testing method.
You should take them and use them like files at the edge, see if they skate or bite. Make sure the teeth are going the right direction. Start with the bottom one which will skate for sure than take note when the file bites at higher hardness.
Several things. First. The reason why they say to start with the hardest file is so that you don’t damage the softer files on hard surfaces. If you do it the other way, the low hardness files will rapidly become damaged. So yes, their instructions do make sense. Generally, you’re not supposed to “test” finished products. Second, the word scratch is not the best choice. Even a softer file will “scratch” a harder surface. But it’s more of a micro polish. Actually, the file should dig slightly into the surface. Don’t do what you’re doing by rapidly moving the file over the surface. That’s not the correct way to do this. Press down with moderate force, and push slightly downwards while pushing forwards. Do this a couple of times, and that’s it. If it digs in, go to the next lower number until the file skates over the surface. That’s the lower limit. But even then you may get that slight polish mark. Ignore that. And remember that these files, while marked with a RC number, can be plus or minus one RC from that number.
I have a large heavy duty Ganzo folder in 440C, it's gotta be around 61 or something because I tested it opening a can of beans, and it dulled the edge a bit but not nearly as much as I expected, and I was able to sharpen it up quickly. Shockingly good heat treat on an uber budget knife
I always wondered how hardness is tested, thanks for an instructive video. Taking the opportunity, have you tested the hardness of the much advertised Huusk knife?
Hardness is one thing. But people are mostly interested in the sharpness of a knife. It's ability to cut super thin slices of tomato or garlic or even paper
Negligible difference in the vast majority of scenarios and considering the already loose results of this testing method. It’s actually more difficult to abrade a higher grit finish than a lower one. The flatter and smoother the surface, the more resistant it is to abrasion. A lower grit finish is going to have more pronounced peaks and valleys for the file to bite into. Like microscopic jimping. 😀👍
Hello! Please, can someone explain to me? I'm about to buy product which I was told is forged under HRC28 and other part under HRC40 degrees. Is it considered as good quality or its normal one? Thanks
Very interesting video brother. I’ve heard of scratch testing but I wasn’t aware that there were kits available for doing it. I don’t know that I wanna scratch up very many of my knives but it is very tempting to get a kit and get some ballpark numbers on some of my cheaper ones(like my Ganzos, ha). Very cool and great idea. Thanks for the info. 👍
Very interesting. Not sure D2 is supposed to be that high well if it is 60 then that would be fine. I was surprised expected to see somewhere in upper 50s. Interesting little kit. I wouldn't want to do that on too many knives. At least not before use and once it has some use marks in it then maybe. Very good review. Glad you showed it didn't know anything like that existed.
In another video, the hardness was tested out ar HRC61, which would be at the high end of 440c, so Ganzo does a pretty darn good job. I haven't seen the newer D2 blades tested yet.
Yeah, 61 would be pretty hard for 440c. I've heard that Ganzo's D2 has been testing fairly high as well. Not that I doubt their steel, but I had to test one myself. Thanks for watching Jim.
You can do the same thing with another knife. For example i have a morakniv classic that's right around 58 59 and moras are very consistent. When i take the tip and try to scratch a knife and it won't the said knife is 58 59 or harder if it does scratch like say a victorinox will its softer and i dont want it lol
Wouldn't the test be largely dependent upon the pressure (and angle, to a degree, no pun intended...) you apply to the file? I would also think the length of stroke might effect it especially if you have a nitride coating, b/c you will have to scratch through the coating and then continue to have to scratch the metal, and every time you change direction, you are going to release the pressure a little and then have to start to scratch through a coating again. If any of the knives have a thick nitride coating, I doubt these files are going to do much to scratch through them considering most coatings start at a hardness of about 85 C IIRC. Even anodized aluminum (aluminum oxide layer) has a rockwell hardness of 60-70 C, which is pretty impressive considering how relatively soft pure aluminum is compared to steel.
There are so many variables to try and control, which is why I said this is not an accurate method. I wouldn't try this test on a coated blade of any kind. Really, it's more for fun or to get an approximate on a knife that might be counterfeit. Thanks for watching.
Actually there is optimal hardness at witch certain steel is easier to resharpen.. For example s35vn at 59-60 will behave better than the one at 56 cause this soft the steels is really gummy and create nasty burr.. Steel should be at it's optimum hardness for maximizing it's properties.. What I will say is with same example I mentioned it's easier to reprofile softer steel.. Kinda a tricky thing to explain but this is my experience cause I have 2 knives in s35vn and ones of them is just 56.4 and another at 59.2 and trust me the softer one takes much longer to achieve same level of sharpness..
I don't doubt that. It's all about that very important heat treat, which unfortunately varies with these production folders. Do you scratch test your knives to obtain that HRC?
I ain't rubbin that thing on my cheap azz, Lightning Elite OTF EDC's !!! I love'em too much and own a Wicked Edge gen 3 pro. So I can sharpen any time I want. It's my side gig and Zen moments. I watch Clay owner of Wicked Edge, its all I need. I'm more interested in why every gawd damn knife today is D2!!!!!! IT STAINS AND RUSTS EZ. What ever happened to Stainless steels ❓❓❓❓❓❓ VG10, AUS8, OR AUS10. I'M SICK OF THE D2 PHENOMENON.
You are scratching way too much and damaging your knife. A couple of strokes is enough. You should also pay attention to the FEEL (tactile feedback) that the sliding offers - if it bites into the material, then it's harder than it, if it slides off, then it is softer than it. Depending on the purpose - you can start from the black and go direction red which will give most life to the kit itself, while going the other way around will make least damage to the material being tested.
![Review: 6 PC Hardness Testing File Set [Rockwell Test Files]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8dg3fDoJ1DA/mqdefault.jpg)
The likely reason they instruct you to start with the hardest file is so that you don't dull all of your softer files just to find out that your knife is 65 HRC.
I actually saw a Rockwell tester at an estate sale many years ago. It was $30. Thirty damn dollars. Didn’t know what it was at the time. The memory of leaving it there without buying it will forever haunt me.
I worked as a professional material tester in a steel factory in Germany and let me tell you this: Your testing method might be MORE accurate than the rockwell testing machines, if you get a set of files which is more accurate than 5 HRc steps (given that these files really have the hardness they are supposed to have and their own hardness is NOT tested with the Rockwell method itself, lol). In the ISO norm the testing machines have +/-1.5 HRc tolerance and even when we calibrated the machine using special testing plates (with different hardness) such a plate which is supposed to be (e.g.) 55 HRc +/-0,2 was ending up with values between 54,5 and 55,5 HRc, which is totally normal, since the ISO norm (6508-2) claims that a tolerance of 0,8 Rockwell units is acceptable for a testing plate (which is used for calibrating the machine).
Now we had an old rockwell hardness tester in our company and modern machines might be more accurate, but the point is - if you for instance order a custom made knife and you want 60 HRc it is totally possible that (even if nothing goes wrong with the heat treatment) you get one which has 58,5 HRc on the lower end or 61,5 HRc on the upper end and the testing machine would be totally alright, it is just an inaccurate testing method.
What I recommend is measuring the hardness in Vickers and convert it to Rockwell, in my experience it is much more accurate and foolproof, because Rockwell testing might include human error when fixing the pre(paration) pressure (before the main force is applied, the method requires some tension). We were doing this all the time in the factory, because Rockwell is such an inaccurate testing method.
You should try on your choil so you don't wreck your blade finish
You should take them and use them like files at the edge, see if they skate or bite. Make sure the teeth are going the right direction. Start with the bottom one which will skate for sure than take note when the file bites at higher hardness.
Yeah, some great tips, thank you. It was a learning experience for me, but something I wanted to try out.
Several things. First. The reason why they say to start with the hardest file is so that you don’t damage the softer files on hard surfaces. If you do it the other way, the low hardness files will rapidly become damaged. So yes, their instructions do make sense. Generally, you’re not supposed to “test” finished products.
Second, the word scratch is not the best choice. Even a softer file will “scratch” a harder surface. But it’s more of a micro polish. Actually, the file should dig slightly into the surface. Don’t do what you’re doing by rapidly moving the file over the surface. That’s not the correct way to do this. Press down with moderate force, and push slightly downwards while pushing forwards. Do this a couple of times, and that’s it. If it digs in, go to the next lower number until the file skates over the surface. That’s the lower limit. But even then you may get that slight polish mark. Ignore that.
And remember that these files, while marked with a RC number, can be plus or minus one RC from that number.
Excellent advice. Thanks.
I have a large heavy duty Ganzo folder in 440C, it's gotta be around 61 or something because I tested it opening a can of beans, and it dulled the edge a bit but not nearly as much as I expected, and I was able to sharpen it up quickly. Shockingly good heat treat on an uber budget knife
Thanks. Helped. Hence: Grandeur.
Interesting, also that Ganzos seem to be hardened that well. Thanks for showing.
Yeah, I was surprised too John. Thanks for watching.
I always wondered how hardness is tested, thanks for an instructive video.
Taking the opportunity, have you tested the hardness of the much advertised Huusk knife?
Great video... these do give you a rough idea of hrc!!! Thanks !!!
I figured I would test the knives I have doubts about. Thanks for watching keifer.
Great find Jay. And most ganzo d2 is 61-62rh. Result. Atb paddy 👍😀☘️
Yeah, I didn't know that. Thank you pad.
Very interesting Jay! Thanks for sharing!!
Thanks for watching Jody.
Hardness is one thing. But people are mostly interested in the sharpness of a knife. It's ability to cut super thin slices of tomato or garlic or even paper
Would it matter how the knife is finished grind lines or satin, wouldn't it be easier to scratch a knife with higher grit finish ?
Negligible difference in the vast majority of scenarios and considering the already loose results of this testing method. It’s actually more difficult to abrade a higher grit finish than a lower one. The flatter and smoother the surface, the more resistant it is to abrasion. A lower grit finish is going to have more pronounced peaks and valleys for the file to bite into. Like microscopic jimping. 😀👍
Great video and thank you for the demo. I have never seen these in use before. They actually look pretty good for the money.👍
I'll be kinda fun to test the blades I have doubts about. Thanks for watching Mike.
Hello! Please, can someone explain to me?
I'm about to buy product which I was told is forged under HRC28 and other part under HRC40 degrees.
Is it considered as good quality or its normal one? Thanks
Sweet little set there...
Thank you Alexander.
you can temper files from home depot. it kinda works and its cheap.
Im getting a sword with 55-60hrc is that good?
Ganzo it's famous for the high tempered blade...
Exact misure Ganzo 440c 59-61 d2 60-62 ...
Not bad ...
no the 60 also made a mark try the 55
Pretty cool testing to give you a ball park....Good stuff....
Thanks for watching Scott.
I read not to test the bevel for hardness . To test the edge ??
Very interesting video brother. I’ve heard of scratch testing but I wasn’t aware that there were kits available for doing it. I don’t know that I wanna scratch up very many of my knives but it is very tempting to get a kit and get some ballpark numbers on some of my cheaper ones(like my Ganzos, ha). Very cool and great idea. Thanks for the info. 👍
I hear ya Matthew. I think I'll disassemble the knives I test next. Thanks for watching.
I agree, softer steels have their place.
Thanks for watching Steve.
the D2 mini cutjack Rockwell tests were low but still hard for me to sharpen. cool video KB.
Just because it's low on his doesn't mean it'll be low on yours. That's the problem , these knife makers aren't consist
@@asphyxiate14 thanks for the info.
You bet James. Thanks for watching.
Cool video, I hadn't heard of this kind of kit before. Man, I hope you don't swarmed by the HRC crowd!
Not yet, but if I do, I'll know I'm doing something right. Thanks for watching BirdLaw.
Very interesting. Not sure D2 is supposed to be that high well if it is 60 then that would be fine. I was surprised expected to see somewhere in upper 50s. Interesting little kit. I wouldn't want to do that on too many knives. At least not before use and once it has some use marks in it then maybe. Very good review. Glad you showed it didn't know anything like that existed.
I know it's not unheard of for D2 to have a high HRC, but I was very surprised with the results of the FH31. Thanks for watching Rick.
In another video, the hardness was tested out ar HRC61, which would be at the high end of 440c, so Ganzo does a pretty darn good job. I haven't seen the newer D2 blades tested yet.
Yeah, 61 would be pretty hard for 440c. I've heard that Ganzo's D2 has been testing fairly high as well. Not that I doubt their steel, but I had to test one myself. Thanks for watching Jim.
Hi Jay, what's with the beanie and thick rag sweater? Is it winter there?
It was a little cooler the day I filmed this, plus I love full zip sweaters. Thanks for watching David.
You can do the same thing with another knife. For example i have a morakniv classic that's right around 58 59 and moras are very consistent. When i take the tip and try to scratch a knife and it won't the said knife is 58 59 or harder if it does scratch like say a victorinox will its softer and i dont want it lol
Victorinox makes a fine knife though im only joking. Softer steel has its place
Wouldn't the test be largely dependent upon the pressure (and angle, to a degree, no pun intended...) you apply to the file? I would also think the length of stroke might effect it especially if you have a nitride coating, b/c you will have to scratch through the coating and then continue to have to scratch the metal, and every time you change direction, you are going to release the pressure a little and then have to start to scratch through a coating again.
If any of the knives have a thick nitride coating, I doubt these files are going to do much to scratch through them considering most coatings start at a hardness of about 85 C IIRC.
Even anodized aluminum (aluminum oxide layer) has a rockwell hardness of 60-70 C, which is pretty impressive considering how relatively soft pure aluminum is compared to steel.
There are so many variables to try and control, which is why I said this is not an accurate method. I wouldn't try this test on a coated blade of any kind. Really, it's more for fun or to get an approximate on a knife that might be counterfeit. Thanks for watching.
Great cool video, but when I first ran it my first thought was "Why is Alton Brown in this video?" LoL
I definitely have his hairline that's for sure.
You are supposed to use the hardest file first so you do not destroy your softer files
the ganzos are at 61 hrc..at least the once i had..
“…to get RIGHT TO THE POINT”
That joke was dull- not very sharp are we?
Nice video- liked.
Actually there is optimal hardness at witch certain steel is easier to resharpen.. For example s35vn at 59-60 will behave better than the one at 56 cause this soft the steels is really gummy and create nasty burr.. Steel should be at it's optimum hardness for maximizing it's properties.. What I will say is with same example I mentioned it's easier to reprofile softer steel.. Kinda a tricky thing to explain but this is my experience cause I have 2 knives in s35vn and ones of them is just 56.4 and another at 59.2 and trust me the softer one takes much longer to achieve same level of sharpness..
I don't doubt that. It's all about that very important heat treat, which unfortunately varies with these production folders. Do you scratch test your knives to obtain that HRC?
@@TheKnifeBeater Nope I live across the street of local HT company called PT UNITED SUPERSTEEL..
Wow, that is too awesome! Very jealous of that Marek.
@@TheKnifeBeater I don't use the files you have.. For the first it leave marks and second it's not accurate although it gives you pretty good range..
I hear ya. I sure don't recommend scratch testing, but it was fun to try it.
I hardness test at work we have digital diamond indenter hardness testers.
Yeah, that would definitely be the way to go. Thank you J.
I'm just curious where do you work ?
you should have went with the grind lines and used a loupe would keep visible scratches to a minimum,excellent idea love your channel
That's a good idea Gabe. Thanks for watching.
I would highly recommend to put paint on your trainer or tape your ballisong (and put paint on it) instead of using these gloves...
Yeah, the gloves do make anything I'm holding feel pretty slippery. Tough to get a good grip. Thanks for watching Alexander.
👀i think It Is 56
I ain't rubbin that thing on my cheap azz, Lightning Elite OTF EDC's !!! I love'em too much and own a Wicked Edge gen 3 pro. So I can sharpen any time I want. It's my side gig and Zen moments. I watch Clay owner of Wicked Edge, its all I need. I'm more interested in why every gawd damn knife today is D2!!!!!! IT STAINS AND RUSTS EZ. What ever happened to Stainless steels ❓❓❓❓❓❓ VG10, AUS8, OR AUS10. I'M SICK OF THE D2 PHENOMENON.
🤟🤙👍✌
Thanks for watching Rich.
I don’t like clone companies like Ganzo
You are scratching way too much and damaging your knife. A couple of strokes is enough. You should also pay attention to the FEEL (tactile feedback) that the sliding offers - if it bites into the material, then it's harder than it, if it slides off, then it is softer than it.
Depending on the purpose - you can start from the black and go direction red which will give most life to the kit itself, while going the other way around will make least damage to the material being tested.
Yeh sweet, you're testing a coating...... waste of time