Just so you know John, you come on here and you say what you're gonna do, you do it, then you explain what you've done. I trust every single word and demonstration you make because you've proved it time & time again. The know-nothing tossers who comment and criticise on here are not worthy of your attention. When they've done as much as you, then they can comment.
Your videos are superb - entertaining, informative and different. I love them. My answer to all those who whinge and critisise would be: Make one, video it and show us YOURS.
Thanks for sharing your experiment! I enjoyed it. Looking down the edge of a knife is a great way to check its sharpness; in the right light one can see the edge of a knife that is sharp enough to shave hair.
Thank you for sharing your expertise. I find it amusing that you have not only produced excellent tools but also done practical tests to demonstrate how good they are and yet there are still commenters who disparage the results because they know they shouldn't work as well as demonstrated :-) Keep up the good work - please!
Thanks John, I agree with you about using tool metal. I made a knife out of an old file I salvage out of the Harbor in Subic Bay, PI. I am not near the craftsman you are, I have used the knife for the past forty years and it still carries a great edge. I probably sharpen it every couple of months. I have used and abused this knife and it is still my favorite.
I Build It "Nazi" is gauche'. I believe the preferred term is "Blade-snobs"... (geeze, now you're dealing with a know-it-all-hater-labeler. It never ends!!)
Excellent video. I taught for some 20 years, and in that time I came up with a title for the people who were never satisfied..."New Ropers". Short for "people who would complain if they were hung with a new rope." I'm pretty sure the metal naysayers would have been the early settlers that didn't make it because the materials needed to survive were not "just so" and thus they couldn't cook, build, plant, harvest, and finally make it. Thankfully those who did and will survive look at the world with "possibilities" and shape them with success. John you are one of the better examples of this group. Keep on making and sharing possibilities. - Annie ~now getting off my soap box~
SuperYtviewer No offense or insult intended, my good lady. Regardless, you may have still won the internet. I guess it would have helped if I had paid attention to the very last line of your comment, eh?
I love everything you do ! It makes my day when I see you post a new video ! The way you respond to trolls that do not have the skill or talent to make anything from scratch, let alone have the knowledge to tell you that what you have made is wrong is fantastic ! I am sure the same trolls will say what you did in this video is wrong. So good for them however we still will not see videos from said trolls doing it themselves. My opinion is, you do amazing things and should never stop ! To the trolls a box is a box, wooden or plastic it is useful to store items no matter what it is made from! If the item you make works for the job it is made for then who cares what anyone thinks. Keep up the amazing videos!
Yeah, don't listen to the internet "experts" none of them has ever built a knife,,, I love your concrete and shovel knife. Great vids and no I don't build knives but enjoy watching people crafting stuff like this.
I have tested knives in the rope material before and that is totally acceptable results, especially considering the total time invested and materials used. Good test & Great point!
Hey! I was the one who suggested the reshaping of the kitchen knife. Another fun thing I've found: if you position your 1x30" belt sander so that the belt moves away from you and is in a horizontal and not a vertical position, you can easily sharpen knives with about 400, 800, or even finer grit belts. Take care in your craft!! (P.s., grinding steel won't ruin its temper unless you see the edge draw to a bluish color)
Your videos are great, and I really enjoy watching them. I hope you never stop being innovative like you are, and sharing those ideas. I have tried things I never would have thought of myself, and plan on doing many more because of what you do. Your knifes are great, and can't wait to get my shop back and make a few like yours. Thanks.
In my perfect UA-cam world, those chunks of rope would be sent to Peter Brown. He'd embed them in epoxy and make a cool kitchen project out it. What kind of kitchen project? A knife block/rack of course!
A very fair and practical approach to testing those knives, I like it. Sadly I doubt it will quell the "Experts" out there, but for a handyman's knife I'd say those are more than capable of holding an edge. And in the end, even if a knife doesn't hold an edge well, it only takes a few minutes to sharpen. Gone are the days when you could just do something for fun, now you have to defend yourself against armies of individuals with superiority complexes that just want to ruin a good time...
Hey there John, well if you think back a little, a few hundred years, blades were crafted from way inferior steel by todays standards and they were perfectly usable. Any steel that can be heat treated can be made into a cutting tool, like you said, the performance will not be top notch, but it's perfectly usable. Even today in India, Khukuris are forged from old leaf springs (5160 spring steel) and they are exceptionally well done. If the steel rusts relatively fast, it will make a suitable knife pretty much, stainless steel is a little more tricky but oh well. By the way, I personally would not recommend chopping with the concrete knife, the shock might compromise the epoxy over time and break the bond. Greetings, Soly
I love the sound of the knives sawing through the rope (ASMR trigger), and I also love knives, so this was definitely MY kind of entertainment (or edutainment)! :)
Just found your channel and the videos are incredible! I have quite a lot to catch up on. I read those comments questioning the capability of the steel you are using, and while the concern is understandable they really miss the mark. Like you said, these materials are all hardened steels which result in a fairly similar blade: a iron-carbon alloy that has undergone enough of a phase transformation to increase the hardness but not develop as much martensite that it is too brittle. The comments on losing the effects of the hardening process due to grinding and sanding are pretty wrong. As long as you aren't heating the steel past 350 degrees F (give or take some), you aren't going to alter the crystal structure of the steel at all. Even if you do, you would have to hold it those elevated temperatures in order to develop larger microstructures that slip easier (higher ductility). I'm actually not so sure about this, but I'm guessing the big difference between these "high quality" steels you might see out of expensive knife makers and maybe a shovel is the control on % of alloying elements and interstitial elements in steel. Nothing wrong with wanting the best materials made with the best processes, but boy were people taking some liberties with their "facts."
Do what you do, don't worry about comments. Most people have know idea about what they are talking about, and they are the first ones to give advice or criticize.
A power hack saw blade makes an excellent knife blade. Worked in a motor repair shop were we made knives of them. You can cut through a 1/4" x 2" solid copper bar using a hammer with no damage to the blade.
rochat That's more and more becoming the reality. Leave out the other distractions that keep guys occupied and on their asses, throw in some "pros" that will tear down whatever you want to do before you even try it. I am the way I am today because whenever someone said "it can't be done" when I was younger, I tried my damnedest to do it. And succeeded, more often than not.
rochat i am always amazed by how many people say this or that cant be done but just about everything ground breaking that has been invented was formally thought to be impossible - and most of the things i make from what others trash people tell me all the time you cant make anything with that for example i was told you cant build a camper with that junk but i just finished my new teardrop camper going camping in 3 weeks and its 90% other peoples trash 10% mix of used hardware and new i have $300 in it most of that was that always to expensive hardware
rochat It can go both ways. It's not really a virue to try everything despite other people's remarks. There are too many, who for example despite hundreds of years of science, try to break the laws of physics in their garage. Point being: don't do something because someone else told you not to, but also don't do nothing because someone else told you. There's no excuse nowadays for just trying every thing you can think of. If you have reasonable assumptions (reasonable as in based on facts) that something should work, sure try it. It is very reasonable to try out a knife blade made from a piece of shovel, because as John said the material properties needed are quite similar. But what would you say if someone tried to make a blade out of aluminium?
superdau One with a shred of common sense would understand that. There certainly are things that just cannot be done like making a jet engine out of bubble gum and tissue paper. And just because science as we know it right now says something can't be done doesn't mean that won't change. Keeping an open mind and questioning what we know isn't a bad thing.
superdau An aluminium blade is not so outlandish, neither is an aluminium axe handle, witness Jimmy Diresta. Depends on its intended use...single use stabbing, wounding or essential hunting tool, makeshift spear blade, say.
John I really like it when you prove all those "NO" sayers wrong. I especially liked the video when you took a bench chisel and turned on your lathe. Never mind those idiots the rest of us love your videos.
I have honestly seen knives that costed 5 dollars but keeps an edge for ages, and I have seen people review high end knives with great steel that performs average, people sometimes can take what is on the paper way too seriously, that is what makes the difference between theory and practice. Good video. I like high end steels, but it doesn't mean that are better at everything, quality of workmanship sometimes just beats average/even good design.
15.54 - excellent! Sometimes the evidence takes time to generate but the process is still interesting because there will be an outcome... and it was impressive. Best Wishes, Brendan.
This is so comforting for someone who wants to smith. One of the things keeping me from doing it is that I'll destroy the temper by grinding, but no! I just have to be careful with the temp and maybe keep a cup of water to dunk it in nearby :)
BeenieBomb That's it, grind carefully and keep it cool - you won't ruin the hardening. You need to start with something that is already hardened, though.
A rasp or file are good, though they are usually too hard. You might want to temper it back so that it's less brittle and holds an edge better by putting it in the kitchen oven at 400 for 30 minutes or so, then letting it cool.
The shovel blade performed plenty good enough for me. Now I want to see how the blades made from jigsaw, drill bit, and crowbar do. Can I expect that test video by next week? lol Wow, this has always been a touchy subject with some people. Years ago a friend of my daughter was wrangled into selling knives door to door. I learned something from that. Her serrated knives outperformed my plain bladed Henckels that I had sharpened in preparation for her coming over. We both cut tomatoes easily, but hers cut rope much easier than mine. I pardoned myself for a minute and went out to the shop and did something that would freak any knife lover to death. I ran the blade of my Henckels chef knife over the course stone on my bench grinder. I put a really ragged edge on that thing. It cut rope AND TOMATOES as good as her serrated knives after that. The down side of course is that the little jagged points I'd created were fragile and didn't hold up for long. And if anyone were to constantly sharpen with a coarse stone, they soon grind the blade away. Plain blade for kitchen use, serrated for rope.
John, I by no means concidere my self to be a knlfe expert, I have a total a four knives . All given to me by friends. Don't know there names and I don't care. There sharp & they do what I need them to do. My favorite is my k bar it actually gets a lot of usage. Great video. keep them coming. Just an FYI, my wife & I received our hoodies yesterday. They are awesome, thank you. The only problem I have now is she decided she likes my black one better then her blue one. I hope you do the tee shirt thing again I like the blue none but really wanted the black one. Such is the way married life can be sometimes. Thanks again. Marty & Joanne
9 років тому
Nice! It looked like the concrete one lost the absolute sharpest of edges after only a couple of cuts? Also, where's the cleaver? :)
I enjoyed the video, just wish you didn't have to make it because so many "experts" had to chime in with their opinions. Making a knife isn't something I plan on doing, but I do enjoy watching the videos of you making them. It's just something different to see.
Well, modern knives easily cut 200+ times such rope, but this one did quite well for a homemade tool. Some seem to forget that the last 3000 years people used worse steels then this for knives and they did pretty good their job.
Anyone who says grinding steel ruins the heat treatment is not fully informed. Two things will ruin the treatment: 1. Too much heat for too long (which can be generated via grinding, but can also be avoided with some care) 2. Destroying the treated area (the hardened steel is not necessarily hardened all the way through on thick work pieces, but for something as thin as, say a shovel, the treatment should be consistent throughout)
This demonstrates something, but I'm not sure exactly what. To prove more, I think it would require more tightly restricted means of cutting the rope, including force, movement (which you mention in an overlay comment there at the end), sharpness testing (removing some of the variables of cutting paper), and perhaps most importantly, a control for a "known ruined temper" blade and one for a known "ideal temper" blade. I don't know what conclusions we can definitively draw from it (unless we're rope cutters who make our own knives), but a sincere thank you for taking the time - it was interesting (I was surprised that the sharpness on any of the blades was degraded with so few rope cuts - tough stuff that rope is).
n8guy You don't ask for much, do you :) It demonstrates that the blade made from a shovel, with no additional treatment, held up as well as a properly heat treated utility knife blade. If you destroy the hardness in a piece of steel by overheating it (annealing), it will not hold an edge long enough to cut through the rope 1 time and still slice paper, let alone 23 times. It would be not better than straight mild steel that has been sharpened.
You should Be very Proud of your accomplishments , it is amazing how critical other people are. And what had they accomplished ? I think you do not need to prove your work to them,
Some people never look at real life only ideal conditions. I use a $20 folding knife that takes a great edge. Before I go into a real life situation I make sure it's sharp. It never fails me and I get great performance. If it breaks or gets lost I get another one and never lose sleep over it. Great job/
Willem Kossen Again, this was for the benefit of those that would like to try making a knife from a low cost (or free) material, but have been brow-beaten into thinking it's a waste of time by the know-it-all knife nazis.
I know. I made my first knife last week out of a sawzall blade. Works well. Im a fan, you are an inspiration, and your videos are helpful! So thank you.
Knife "collectors" are like delusional audiophiles, they buy all the hype when it comes to the necessity of certain steel blends when they do nothing but baby their knives behind display cases. Or brag about their $500 EDC knife that only opens up packages or McDonalds wrappers because all they do is consume and follow suit.
***** To a large extent I agree with your sentiments here, that said I'm aware of only a few knife companies that go up to the $500 mark for production knives. Chris Reeve (Sebenza makers) and Microtech come to mind, those are really quite expensive for what you get in my opinion and not a thing I expect to have myself. I own a few knives that some people consider too expensive for what you get (spyderco endura, a delica and a benchmade 940). The first two I bought myself and I've not regretted them ever, both solid choices depending on what the occasion and pockets of your clothes can handle. The last one was a birthday gift, and I probably wouldn't spend that much on any single knife. But I didn't go into any of those expecting them to be magical super knives, I liked the colour options and form factor of the knives, and for an EDC item that'll last you years its worth paying a premium for a design and construction that you like in my opinion. The improvement of the steel used in those knives (VG-10 and S30V) over "typical stainless steel" such as 8Cr13MoV in many of the cheap knives out of China (assuming both are made well and the heat treatment is done well) isn't anything major. If I'd have to quantify it based on own experience over the years about 20-30% more work done before I have to touch the edge up. Could go on about more varieties of non-stainless steel I have experience with both through owning it myself and often getting a lot of knives by people I know to sharpen them but it'd only get distracting. I've come to the conclusion that unless something is seriously done wrong a knife tends to be fit for purpose well enough, so I'm not really surprised that these reused materials from other quality tools ended up giving satisfactory results. But you do have a point about the people who go a bit overboard and collect knives and not use it, not that there's anything inherently wrong with wanting to collect things in my opinion as long as you can afford it and it gives you satisfaction. However the bragging and attitude issues do exist in a way that comes across as being a bit too much of a jerk at times. Oh well its the internet, you know what happens in discussions in for example the youtube comments section, forums and places like reddit. It degenerates into stuff like this: www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2939
***** Agreed. Buy what you want, but don't deceive yourself into thinking your $200 knife is $185 BETTER than my $15 knife. The best pocket knife I've ever owned is a Milwaukee Fastback 48-22-1990 Drop Point. It's not the highest quality knife I've owned, nor is it the most expensive knife I've owned, but it's the knife I go to for EDC, job site, contract work, and everything else I can think of. I'm not afraid to use and abuse it because it cost me $15. It could hold an edge better, but it sharpens up real quick. I don't think I'll ever spend much more than $30 on a pocket knife because I know how good a $15 one can be. My buddy in the military kind of babies his $80 CRKT (which is an awesome knife), but I'll get right in there and pry, dig, drill, twist, and do whatever because, again, $15.
+Alex Van Nostrand Whereas an audiophile will buy expensive equipment that measures worse than an Iphone and claim to hear "wider soundstage" and "more refined mids and treble", a $500 knife is most often made with much better material than a $100 dollar knife. The hardness and strength is easily verified.
温祺伟 The problem is, if you spend 20 times on your knife what I did on mine, will it literally hold its edge 20 times longer? Will the knife do the job 20 times better? Or faster? Again, I understand that some people prefer higher quality, but don't look down on a knife just because of its price tag. A knife is a tool. If you aren't willing to use your tool for its intended purpose because of how much money it cost you, then that tool isn't doing its job.
Budsygus A Bugatti Veyron doesn't have 30 times the horsepower of a Ford Focus RS either. Of course it's diminishing return as you move towards higher end stuff. Also people who can afford a Bugatti Veyron don't have to drive them to work, right? For some people it's just a nice and cool thing to have around and to marvel.
Other youtuber: DAH we uploaded again, but what is best in life? John: prove the haters wrong, see them crying in the corner and hear the lamentation of their moms. Yes that is good.
the olfa blade was the first one to go because its meant to be used only the tip of the blade and snap off the dull tip and use a new piece but i cutted a carpet with the blade fully extended and dull the blade in one go btw nice kitchen knife
Now all you need is a project that you need small bits of rope for.. I think the problem most people have with your knives comes from the 'survival types' that want a knife to rely on. When you are at home or especially in the workshop a knife that can hold an edge reasonably well and can be sharpened easily will do fine, since you have your sharpening stuff on hand anyway.
well i guess i am a knife guy i loved the video thanks i have been looking to do something with some old saw blades and shovels i guess its knife making time for me cool video
Like you said they are better than acceptable. People think a knife has to made from a certain type of steel or its not a real knife. In my opinion that's like saying a shop tool has to be store bought or of a certain brand otherwise it's not a real tool.
Well this is proof enough that so long as you're careful not to overheat the metal, you can do what you want with it. But what is the point at which the metal is overheated? Burning to the touch? I'm interested in modifying some grinds and polishing some of my blades, but I've been very wary of taking that step in fear that I'd mess up the temper.
RaffeyJ Change in colour. If it turns dark blue, you are going too far. The key is to grind a little, cool it, grind a little, cool it over and over until you get it where it needs to be.
I Build It Fantastic information, thank you. I'll give it a shot and keep an eye out for color shifts. Does the metal turn blue before it becomes hot to the touch? Or is it safe to go a little beyond that point?
Ahahah , i was looking for videos on 3v steel testing and found this steel testing video . And it brought me back to earth , im new to knife making and just realized that the lower quality steels also work . Thanks for the video i watched it all and kept hoping the concrete knife would outlast the razor ahahahahha , thankz
The kitchen knife also has a much larger cutting surface. While parts of it are certainly dull other parts are still sharp because those parts weren't cutting rope. The concrete knife has a much smaller blade as is the utility blade. I think for general purpose the concrete knifes blade is comparable to the others.
whether or not one may argue that edge retention would be off, nonetheless it seems as though you have made a functional tool. thanks for going to the trouble of making this video. also, i don't know what kind of coffee you are drinking but, i could use some for work. :)
A usable knife can be made from nearly any piece of steel. Careful grinding won't damage the heat treatment of the knife. That said, even a $20 knife from Wal Mart will make hundreds of cuts in rope and still be able to cut paper.
I think the kitchen knife was still sharp because maybe you weren't cutting the paper with the same part of the blade as you were the rope. Or maybe because it's a longer blade the overall wear is spread out instead of being more focused like on a short blade. That's just my thoughts though...
not a hater here, but I think you should stop bothering with the haters comments. you made nice and usefull knifes and thats a good goal, but aceppt that you didn't went for the tradicional and best quality results u could possibily go. And a utility knife is not a good control because its blades are dusposable for a reason. I say keep doing great projects and dont let bad comments sting you this way, people tha does the comments still watch youre videos because they are cool!
Ricardo Martins Ferreira Again, this was for the benefit of those that would like to try making a knife from a low cost (or free) material, but have been brow-beaten into thinking it's a waste of time by the know-it-all knife nazis. At some point in the near future, I'll build a heat treatment oven and make a "knifephile" grade blade, but at the end of the day iy will still do exactly the same thing as the blade made from a shovel - cut stuff.
Let's not forget knives are a huge commodity! Peoples lively hoods depend on the perceived value. Although, I agree there can always be something better... For the most part its just marketing. Also people who spent more for higher end knives will have a mental need to defend their purchase.
***** You do realize you are talking about a knife made from a broken shovel and a piece of broken concrete, right? In less than 3 hours for $0, too. Made anything lately?
Some knife nuts really no little of steel except what is told on the net about knife steel. Any halfway good steel will do the job. Let's face it they used bronze in the past. Before that stone. You can cut fairly good with a can lid.
You'd *definitely* be the man to see about getting a good shiv in prison. ..or is it a "shank"? See, I don't even know that, hence my likely needing one lol.
Nice demonstration. Sure, the ones you made aren't "high end" steel but that was never the point. Just goes to show you don't have to pay several hundred dollars to get a good blade.
You just Butthurt a bunch of knife snobs that think you need to spend hundreds of dollars to hang a knife on their hip to traipse around in the woods.Good job!
Just so you know John, you come on here and you say what you're gonna do, you do it, then you explain what you've done. I trust every single word and demonstration you make because you've proved it time & time again. The know-nothing tossers who comment and criticise on here are not worthy of your attention. When they've done as much as you, then they can comment.
Your videos are superb - entertaining, informative and different. I love them.
My answer to all those who whinge and critisise would be: Make one, video it and show us YOURS.
Alan Wright I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen :)
Thanks for sharing your experiment! I enjoyed it. Looking down the edge of a knife is a great way to check its sharpness; in the right light one can see the edge of a knife that is sharp enough to shave hair.
Thank you for sharing your expertise.
I find it amusing that you have not only produced excellent tools but also done practical tests to demonstrate how good they are and yet there are still commenters who disparage the results because they know they shouldn't work as well as demonstrated :-)
Keep up the good work - please!
Nice work. People used knives for a very long time with steel of less quality than you can find in a modern shovel.
I can't beleive you manage to get me to watch you cut a rope 60 some times but I just couldn't stop watching. Anyways interesting experiment.
Ahahah I thought the same...
Thanks John, I agree with you about using tool metal. I made a knife out of an old file I salvage out of the Harbor in Subic Bay, PI. I am not near the craftsman you are, I have used the knife for the past forty years and it still carries a great edge. I probably sharpen it every couple of months. I have used and abused this knife and it is still my favorite.
Haters will always hate and also they're annoying.
Drunken Woodworker Haters I can stand, it's the know-it-all knife nazis that are annoying.
I Build It "Nazi" is gauche'. I believe the preferred term is "Blade-snobs"... (geeze, now you're dealing with a know-it-all-hater-labeler. It never ends!!)
JD Hood Oh.....you mean the "Arm Shavers"!
Drunken Woodworker We hate haters, that's sure.
Excellent video. I taught for some 20 years, and in that time I came up with a title for the people who were never satisfied..."New Ropers". Short for "people who would complain if they were hung with a new rope."
I'm pretty sure the metal naysayers would have been the early settlers that didn't make it because the materials needed to survive were not "just so" and thus they couldn't cook, build, plant, harvest, and finally make it.
Thankfully those who did and will survive look at the world with "possibilities" and shape them with success. John you are one of the better examples of this group. Keep on making and sharing possibilities. - Annie
~now getting off my soap box~
SuperYtviewer You, my good man, may have just won the internet.
As a woman I can accept that. -- Annie
SuperYtviewer No offense or insult intended, my good lady. Regardless, you may have still won the internet. I guess it would have helped if I had paid attention to the very last line of your comment, eh?
No offense taken. You have a great day and days to come. - Annie
SuperYtviewer And to you as well.
Impressive. Love your honest approach.
I love everything you do ! It makes my day when I see you post a new video ! The way you respond to trolls that do not have the skill or talent to make anything from scratch, let alone have the knowledge to tell you that what you have made is wrong is fantastic ! I am sure the same trolls will say what you did in this video is wrong. So good for them however we still will not see videos from said trolls doing it themselves. My opinion is, you do amazing things and should never stop ! To the trolls a box is a box, wooden or plastic it is useful to store items no matter what it is made from! If the item you make works for the job it is made for then who cares what anyone thinks. Keep up the amazing videos!
Yeah, don't listen to the internet "experts" none of them has ever built a knife,,, I love your concrete and shovel knife. Great vids and no I don't build knives but enjoy watching people crafting stuff like this.
I have tested knives in the rope material before and that is totally acceptable results, especially considering the total time invested and materials used. Good test & Great point!
Hey! I was the one who suggested the reshaping of the kitchen knife. Another fun thing I've found: if you position your 1x30" belt sander so that the belt moves away from you and is in a horizontal and not a vertical position, you can easily sharpen knives with about 400, 800, or even finer grit belts. Take care in your craft!! (P.s., grinding steel won't ruin its temper unless you see the edge draw to a bluish color)
I thoroughly enjoy these demonstrations.
Your videos are great, and I really enjoy watching them. I hope you never stop being innovative like you are, and sharing those ideas. I have tried things I never would have thought of myself, and plan on doing many more because of what you do. Your knifes are great, and can't wait to get my shop back and make a few like yours. Thanks.
In my perfect UA-cam world, those chunks of rope would be sent to Peter Brown. He'd embed them in epoxy and make a cool kitchen project out it. What kind of kitchen project? A knife block/rack of course!
Mark Lindsay And those shreds of paper can be Peter Brown'd into a knife handle.
Double Dare Fan Micarta!
I saw every second of the video, mostly to see the incredible stamina John Heisz put into everything he does.
Always enjoy your videos John, even though I don't think you need to accommodate those who doubt your ability. Cheers.
Very interesting ... and I only fell asleep 3 times ;-).
LOVE this experiment. It is hard to argue with hard data. Though, some will try!
A very fair and practical approach to testing those knives, I like it. Sadly I doubt it will quell the "Experts" out there, but for a handyman's knife I'd say those are more than capable of holding an edge. And in the end, even if a knife doesn't hold an edge well, it only takes a few minutes to sharpen. Gone are the days when you could just do something for fun, now you have to defend yourself against armies of individuals with superiority complexes that just want to ruin a good time...
That shovel knife is impressive. Simple and effective.
Hey there John,
well if you think back a little, a few hundred years, blades were crafted from way inferior steel by todays standards and they were perfectly usable. Any steel that can be heat treated can be made into a cutting tool, like you said, the performance will not be top notch, but it's perfectly usable. Even today in India, Khukuris are forged from old leaf springs (5160 spring steel) and they are exceptionally well done. If the steel rusts relatively fast, it will make a suitable knife pretty much, stainless steel is a little more tricky but oh well.
By the way, I personally would not recommend chopping with the concrete knife, the shock might compromise the epoxy over time and break the bond.
Greetings,
Soly
I love the sound of the knives sawing through the rope (ASMR trigger), and I also love knives, so this was definitely MY kind of entertainment (or edutainment)! :)
Just found your channel and the videos are incredible! I have quite a lot to catch up on. I read those comments questioning the capability of the steel you are using, and while the concern is understandable they really miss the mark.
Like you said, these materials are all hardened steels which result in a fairly similar blade: a iron-carbon alloy that has undergone enough of a phase transformation to increase the hardness but not develop as much martensite that it is too brittle. The comments on losing the effects of the hardening process due to grinding and sanding are pretty wrong. As long as you aren't heating the steel past 350 degrees F (give or take some), you aren't going to alter the crystal structure of the steel at all. Even if you do, you would have to hold it those elevated temperatures in order to develop larger microstructures that slip easier (higher ductility).
I'm actually not so sure about this, but I'm guessing the big difference between these "high quality" steels you might see out of expensive knife makers and maybe a shovel is the control on % of alloying elements and interstitial elements in steel. Nothing wrong with wanting the best materials made with the best processes, but boy were people taking some liberties with their "facts."
Great test, and you proved your point! Keep up the great work!
Do what you do, don't worry about comments. Most people have know idea about what they are talking about, and they are the first ones to give advice or criticize.
That's awesome, the real question is, why do you have a $20 bill on your tool wall?
***** Something else to cut to test sharpness
***** Prop from a previous video.
I Build It Hmm, i must have missed it.. gonna track that down,
***** This one: ua-cam.com/video/4rZHxGic_Rk/v-deo.html
:)
I Build It Thanks john :)
A power hack saw blade makes an excellent knife blade. Worked in a motor repair shop were we made knives of them. You can cut through a 1/4" x 2" solid copper bar using a hammer with no damage to the blade.
I love your reaction to stupid comments. Keep doing your thing.
Imagine the world we would live in if no one tried anything because others said it couldn't be done.
rochat That's more and more becoming the reality. Leave out the other distractions that keep guys occupied and on their asses, throw in some "pros" that will tear down whatever you want to do before you even try it.
I am the way I am today because whenever someone said "it can't be done" when I was younger, I tried my damnedest to do it. And succeeded, more often than not.
rochat i am always amazed by how many people say this or that cant be done but just about everything ground breaking that has been invented was formally thought to be impossible - and most of the things i make from what others trash people tell me all the time you cant make anything with that for example i was told you cant build a camper with that junk but i just finished my new teardrop camper going camping in 3 weeks and its 90% other peoples trash 10% mix of used hardware and new i have $300 in it most of that was that always to expensive hardware
rochat
It can go both ways. It's not really a virue to try everything despite other people's remarks. There are too many, who for example despite hundreds of years of science, try to break the laws of physics in their garage.
Point being: don't do something because someone else told you not to, but also don't do nothing because someone else told you. There's no excuse nowadays for just trying every thing you can think of. If you have reasonable assumptions (reasonable as in based on facts) that something should work, sure try it. It is very reasonable to try out a knife blade made from a piece of shovel, because as John said the material properties needed are quite similar. But what would you say if someone tried to make a blade out of aluminium?
superdau One with a shred of common sense would understand that. There certainly are things that just cannot be done like making a jet engine out of bubble gum and tissue paper.
And just because science as we know it right now says something can't be done doesn't mean that won't change. Keeping an open mind and questioning what we know isn't a bad thing.
superdau An aluminium blade is not so outlandish, neither is an aluminium axe handle, witness Jimmy Diresta. Depends on its intended use...single use stabbing, wounding or essential hunting tool, makeshift spear blade, say.
John I really like it when you prove all those "NO" sayers wrong. I especially liked the video when you took a bench chisel and turned on your lathe. Never mind those idiots the rest of us love your videos.
kudos! Reuse..new job for the old being salvaged/forged into something new and usable.
I have honestly seen knives that costed 5 dollars but keeps an edge for ages, and I have seen people review high end knives with great steel that performs average, people sometimes can take what is on the paper way too seriously, that is what makes the difference between theory and practice. Good video. I like high end steels, but it doesn't mean that are better at everything, quality of workmanship sometimes just beats average/even good design.
Interesting test! Thanks for posting!
Great test. And not boring. I sat in rapt attention.
15.54 - excellent! Sometimes the evidence takes time to generate but the process is still interesting because there will be an outcome... and it was impressive.
Best Wishes, Brendan.
Great video! I enjoyed it quite a bit.
As long as they do what you want that's all one can ask. Great test. I have cut that kind of rope myself and dulled a couple of knives doing it.
Sure beats the drywall screw video in going to lenghts to make a point.
This is so comforting for someone who wants to smith. One of the things keeping me from doing it is that I'll destroy the temper by grinding, but no! I just have to be careful with the temp and maybe keep a cup of water to dunk it in nearby :)
BeenieBomb That's it, grind carefully and keep it cool - you won't ruin the hardening. You need to start with something that is already hardened, though.
I Build It Yeah! I was planning on using a rasp or something of the sort :)
A rasp or file are good, though they are usually too hard. You might want to temper it back so that it's less brittle and holds an edge better by putting it in the kitchen oven at 400 for 30 minutes or so, then letting it cool.
I Build It Great advice, thanks a ton!
The shovel blade performed plenty good enough for me. Now I want to see how the blades made from jigsaw, drill bit, and crowbar do. Can I expect that test video by next week? lol Wow, this has always been a touchy subject with some people. Years ago a friend of my daughter was wrangled into selling knives door to door. I learned something from that. Her serrated knives outperformed my plain bladed Henckels that I had sharpened in preparation for her coming over. We both cut tomatoes easily, but hers cut rope much easier than mine. I pardoned myself for a minute and went out to the shop and did something that would freak any knife lover to death. I ran the blade of my Henckels chef knife over the course stone on my bench grinder. I put a really ragged edge on that thing. It cut rope AND TOMATOES as good as her serrated knives after that. The down side of course is that the little jagged points I'd created were fragile and didn't hold up for long. And if anyone were to constantly sharpen with a coarse stone, they soon grind the blade away. Plain blade for kitchen use, serrated for rope.
John, I by no means concidere my self to be a knlfe expert, I have a total a four knives . All given to me by friends. Don't know there names and I don't care. There sharp & they do what I need them to do. My favorite is my k bar it actually gets a lot of usage. Great video. keep them coming. Just an FYI, my wife & I received our hoodies yesterday. They are awesome, thank you. The only problem I have now is she decided she likes my black one better then her blue one. I hope you do the tee shirt thing again I like the blue none but really wanted the black one. Such is the way married life can be sometimes. Thanks again. Marty & Joanne
Nice! It looked like the concrete one lost the absolute sharpest of edges after only a couple of cuts? Also, where's the cleaver? :)
It is as simple as this. If you are happy with the knife you made then it is an awesome knife
And John drops the mic and walks off stage....
I enjoyed the video, just wish you didn't have to make it because so many "experts" had to chime in with their opinions. Making a knife isn't something I plan on doing, but I do enjoy watching the videos of you making them. It's just something different to see.
Well, modern knives easily cut 200+ times such rope, but this one did quite well for a homemade tool. Some seem to forget that the last 3000 years people used worse steels then this for knives and they did pretty good their job.
Anyone who says grinding steel ruins the heat treatment is not fully informed. Two things will ruin the treatment: 1. Too much heat for too long (which can be generated via grinding, but can also be avoided with some care) 2. Destroying the treated area (the hardened steel is not necessarily hardened all the way through on thick work pieces, but for something as thin as, say a shovel, the treatment should be consistent throughout)
This demonstrates something, but I'm not sure exactly what. To prove more, I think it would require more tightly restricted means of cutting the rope, including force, movement (which you mention in an overlay comment there at the end), sharpness testing (removing some of the variables of cutting paper), and perhaps most importantly, a control for a "known ruined temper" blade and one for a known "ideal temper" blade. I don't know what conclusions we can definitively draw from it (unless we're rope cutters who make our own knives), but a sincere thank you for taking the time - it was interesting (I was surprised that the sharpness on any of the blades was degraded with so few rope cuts - tough stuff that rope is).
n8guy You don't ask for much, do you :)
It demonstrates that the blade made from a shovel, with no additional treatment, held up as well as a properly heat treated utility knife blade. If you destroy the hardness in a piece of steel by overheating it (annealing), it will not hold an edge long enough to cut through the rope 1 time and still slice paper, let alone 23 times. It would be not better than straight mild steel that has been sharpened.
Point proven in "spades" John :)
Take care
Mike
Nice, thanks for sharing
You should Be very Proud of your accomplishments , it is amazing how critical other people are. And what had they accomplished ? I think you do not need to prove your work to them,
Some people never look at real life only ideal conditions. I use a $20 folding knife that takes a great edge. Before I go into a real life situation I make sure it's sharp. It never fails me and I get great performance. If it breaks or gets lost I get another one and never lose sleep over it. Great job/
Yes it was a bit boring but well worth you time and effort to prove a point. Great job!
People will complain. Upgrade your internal ignore button.
Good test, good knifes!
Willem Kossen Again, this was for the benefit of those that would like to try making a knife from a low cost (or free) material, but have been brow-beaten into thinking it's a waste of time by the know-it-all knife nazis.
I know. I made my first knife last week out of a sawzall blade. Works well. Im a fan, you are an inspiration, and your videos are helpful! So thank you.
Is rope worse on a blades edge than card board ? Just curious because it's what I heard on a video somewhere here on youtube.
Peace
Knife "collectors" are like delusional audiophiles, they buy all the hype when it comes to the necessity of certain steel blends when they do nothing but baby their knives behind display cases. Or brag about their $500 EDC knife that only opens up packages or McDonalds wrappers because all they do is consume and follow suit.
***** To a large extent I agree with your sentiments here, that said I'm aware of only a few knife companies that go up to the $500 mark for production knives. Chris Reeve (Sebenza makers) and Microtech come to mind, those are really quite expensive for what you get in my opinion and not a thing I expect to have myself.
I own a few knives that some people consider too expensive for what you get (spyderco endura, a delica and a benchmade 940). The first two I bought myself and I've not regretted them ever, both solid choices depending on what the occasion and pockets of your clothes can handle. The last one was a birthday gift, and I probably wouldn't spend that much on any single knife. But I didn't go into any of those expecting them to be magical super knives, I liked the colour options and form factor of the knives, and for an EDC item that'll last you years its worth paying a premium for a design and construction that you like in my opinion.
The improvement of the steel used in those knives (VG-10 and S30V) over "typical stainless steel" such as 8Cr13MoV in many of the cheap knives out of China (assuming both are made well and the heat treatment is done well) isn't anything major. If I'd have to quantify it based on own experience over the years about 20-30% more work done before I have to touch the edge up. Could go on about more varieties of non-stainless steel I have experience with both through owning it myself and often getting a lot of knives by people I know to sharpen them but it'd only get distracting.
I've come to the conclusion that unless something is seriously done wrong a knife tends to be fit for purpose well enough, so I'm not really surprised that these reused materials from other quality tools ended up giving satisfactory results.
But you do have a point about the people who go a bit overboard and collect knives and not use it, not that there's anything inherently wrong with wanting to collect things in my opinion as long as you can afford it and it gives you satisfaction. However the bragging and attitude issues do exist in a way that comes across as being a bit too much of a jerk at times. Oh well its the internet, you know what happens in discussions in for example the youtube comments section, forums and places like reddit. It degenerates into stuff like this: www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2939
***** Agreed. Buy what you want, but don't deceive yourself into thinking your $200 knife is $185 BETTER than my $15 knife. The best pocket knife I've ever owned is a Milwaukee Fastback 48-22-1990 Drop Point. It's not the highest quality knife I've owned, nor is it the most expensive knife I've owned, but it's the knife I go to for EDC, job site, contract work, and everything else I can think of. I'm not afraid to use and abuse it because it cost me $15. It could hold an edge better, but it sharpens up real quick. I don't think I'll ever spend much more than $30 on a pocket knife because I know how good a $15 one can be. My buddy in the military kind of babies his $80 CRKT (which is an awesome knife), but I'll get right in there and pry, dig, drill, twist, and do whatever because, again, $15.
+Alex Van Nostrand
Whereas an audiophile will buy expensive equipment that measures worse than an Iphone and claim to hear "wider soundstage" and "more refined mids and treble", a $500 knife is most often made with much better material than a $100 dollar knife. The hardness and strength is easily verified.
温祺伟 The problem is, if you spend 20 times on your knife what I did on mine, will it literally hold its edge 20 times longer? Will the knife do the job 20 times better? Or faster? Again, I understand that some people prefer higher quality, but don't look down on a knife just because of its price tag. A knife is a tool. If you aren't willing to use your tool for its intended purpose because of how much money it cost you, then that tool isn't doing its job.
Budsygus A Bugatti Veyron doesn't have 30 times the horsepower of a Ford Focus RS either. Of course it's diminishing return as you move towards higher end stuff.
Also people who can afford a Bugatti Veyron don't have to drive them to work, right? For some people it's just a nice and cool thing to have around and to marvel.
Other youtuber: DAH we uploaded again, but what is best in life? John: prove the haters wrong, see them crying in the corner and hear the lamentation of their moms. Yes that is good.
the olfa blade was the first one to go
because its meant to be used only the tip of the blade
and snap off the dull tip and use a new piece
but i cutted a carpet with the blade fully extended and dull the blade in one go
btw nice kitchen knife
Now all you need is a project that you need small bits of rope for..
I think the problem most people have with your knives comes from the 'survival types' that want a knife to rely on. When you are at home or especially in the workshop a knife that can hold an edge reasonably well and can be sharpened easily will do fine, since you have your sharpening stuff on hand anyway.
MrPanohead I've sharpened knives on concrete, pieces of stone and the bottom of dinner plates, so my sharpening stuff is always on hand. :)
well i guess i am a knife guy i loved the video thanks i have been looking to do something with some old saw blades and shovels i guess its knife making time for me cool video
Like you said they are better than acceptable. People think a knife has to made from a certain type of steel or its not a real knife. In my opinion that's like saying a shop tool has to be store bought or of a certain brand otherwise it's not a real tool.
I don't usualy watch woodworking videos, dut when i do, they cutting ropes!
Nice Vid btw!
Well this is proof enough that so long as you're careful not to overheat the metal, you can do what you want with it.
But what is the point at which the metal is overheated? Burning to the touch?
I'm interested in modifying some grinds and polishing some of my blades, but I've been very wary of taking that step in fear that I'd mess up the temper.
RaffeyJ Change in colour. If it turns dark blue, you are going too far. The key is to grind a little, cool it, grind a little, cool it over and over until you get it where it needs to be.
I Build It Fantastic information, thank you.
I'll give it a shot and keep an eye out for color shifts. Does the metal turn blue before it becomes hot to the touch? Or is it safe to go a little beyond that point?
Ahahah , i was looking for videos on 3v steel testing and found this steel testing video . And it brought me back to earth , im new to knife making and just realized that the lower quality steels also work . Thanks for the video i watched it all and kept hoping the concrete knife would outlast the razor ahahahahha , thankz
The kitchen knife also has a much larger cutting surface. While parts of it are certainly dull other parts are still sharp because those parts weren't cutting rope. The concrete knife has a much smaller blade as is the utility blade. I think for general purpose the concrete knifes blade is comparable to the others.
That's sharp enough for anything I do.
Cool, Jimmy DiResta put out a knife video today, too :))
whether or not one may argue that edge retention would be off, nonetheless it seems as though you have made a functional tool. thanks for going to the trouble of making this video. also, i don't know what kind of coffee you are drinking but, i could use some for work. :)
A usable knife can be made from nearly any piece of steel. Careful grinding won't damage the heat treatment of the knife. That said, even a $20 knife from Wal Mart will make hundreds of cuts in rope and still be able to cut paper.
You should make more to sell or auction or somethin
I think the kitchen knife was still sharp because maybe you weren't cutting the paper with the same part of the blade as you were the rope. Or maybe because it's a longer blade the overall wear is spread out instead of being more focused like on a short blade. That's just my thoughts though...
Yammercat and mine, as written near the end of the video :)
I didn't see that part :p oh well..
Sheesh that was a boring video. Sharp or not, your shovel/concrete knife is an excellent product..
not a hater here, but I think you should stop bothering with the haters comments. you made nice and usefull knifes and thats a good goal, but aceppt that you didn't went for the tradicional and best quality results u could possibily go. And a utility knife is not a good control because its blades are dusposable for a reason.
I say keep doing great projects and dont let bad comments sting you this way, people tha does the comments still watch youre videos because they are cool!
Ricardo Martins Ferreira Again, this was for the benefit of those that would like to try making a
knife from a low cost (or free) material, but have been brow-beaten
into thinking it's a waste of time by the know-it-all knife nazis.
At some point in the near future, I'll build a heat treatment oven and make a "knifephile" grade blade, but at the end of the day iy will still do exactly the same thing as the blade made from a shovel - cut stuff.
nice! glad to know about the future projec! can't wait to see that. you rock!
I don't like ridiculously sharp knives, always seem to end up cutting myself like that.
You forgot the meet cleaver
Jimmy Diresta also put out a knife video. im not complaining about this coincidence haha
Why the $20 bill on the wall
Let's not forget knives are a huge commodity! Peoples lively hoods depend on the perceived value. Although, I agree there can always be something better... For the most part its just marketing. Also people who spent more for higher end knives will have a mental need to defend their purchase.
You may have fed some Trolls with this Video.....
Thats a nice middle finger up to al the critics
Interesting.
That ought to shut them up!
In all honestly if you took that concrete knife to a steel and reoriented the cutting edge it would be back to fighting shape in a few strokes.
lol, let the critics eat their hearts out.. bahahahah... you always do great work, let haters be haters , stay awesome and study them not. Blessings!
Nuff said.
About 8 minutes in I was hoping for a Dan Akroyd-style Julia Child gag- "I've cut the Dickens out of my finger!...."
John 1, Knife Nerds 0.
(or, more accurately, John 100000, Knife Nerds 0)
***** You do realize you are talking about a knife made from a broken shovel and a piece of broken concrete, right? In less than 3 hours for $0, too. Made anything lately?
Some knife nuts really no little of steel except what is told on the net about knife steel. Any halfway good steel will do the job. Let's face it they used bronze in the past. Before that stone. You can cut fairly good with a can lid.
I've never seen something that's so boring and interesting at the same time. lol
You'd *definitely* be the man to see about getting a good shiv in prison. ..or is it a "shank"? See, I don't even know that, hence my likely needing one lol.
So cheaper kitchen knife last longer...
good waste of rope lol good vid nice work on all those knives to hell with the haters
The sped-up talking was funny. Some of that John Heisz character for an otherwise pretty plain video.
Nice demonstration. Sure, the ones you made aren't "high end" steel but that was never the point. Just goes to show you don't have to pay several hundred dollars to get a good blade.
You just Butthurt a bunch of knife snobs that think you need to spend hundreds of dollars to hang a knife on their hip to traipse around in the woods.Good job!
What a waste of paper ;-)
Omg wow man not marking fun but you are missing out on the quality of what is out there those knives are cool but no better than a butter knife sorry
Why the $20 on the wall