Dr. Mohler thank you for having Abigail on. What a brilliant conversation about such an important issue! I am part of book club with my 3 young daughters. We be reading and discussing this book for sure!
Thank you for this. Unfortunately this starts early on with parents. I was mortified when I was asked if I was going to write a letter to the school for my child entering kindergarten. Their reasoning was to have their child placed with the "right" teacher. I said, "he'll get who he gets, & he'll learn to deal with it." This is a journey we take together in preparing them for adulthood. We need to allow our children to problem solve & make choices at an early age. I'm tired of seeing grown children at airports with stuffed animals, child-like pajamas, therapy pets, etc...
She is on point!! As an immigrant to the USA, I have pondered on the same issues I’ve encountered here for the last 20 years. It’s so interesting and bizarre to observe American culture, especially when raising children. Thank you!
Thanks so much for this conversation. My siblings and I grew up with a social worker for a mama. Therapy was always the answer back then. Even now I am one of my sister's much needed sounding board and my brother cut family off over 20 years ago.
It was such a great interview and helpful in understanding the cultural moment, specifically regarding children. I do not want to assume that the negative comments did not watch the whole interview, but I wonder. If they did, they completely misunderstood the conversation, its warnings, and its evaluation of therapy. On more than one occasion the conversation commends therapists and acknowledges the need and benefit in many circumstances. On multiple occasions, they commended therapists who operate with integrity and skill. The negative comments actually reflect those therapists who are not operating with honesty and integrity, understanding the limits and risks of therapy. (I am not saying that the negative commenters lack honesty and integrity, but I am saying they have not understood this conversation and have (even if unwittingly) echoed those who would "wall off" their profession from accountability and criticism.) The awareness and risks of therapy when it involves children is needed. The warning against the "culture of the therapeutic" is strong. General policies that are treating the healthy are reaping catastrophic returns. This conversation is a powerful reflection on these things. Thank you.
on the point of a young person going to grandma or to a pastor is that the licensed therapist is going to respect confidentiality. Does anyone think grandma or a pastor isn't going to RUN and rat out the young person?
Another data point of secular culture in general but the government specifically continuing to tear the family apart by disjoining the parents from their children. Fatherless children from the LBJ era of the great society were the spoils of welfare programs by declaring "The government is here to help!" but doing quite the opposite. Now a multi-billion dollar industry never to be reversed. Steely Dan released a tune in 1975 titled Dr. Wu on their Katy Lied album. It's highbrow humor about therapy since all the trendy folks in L.A. had a therapist back then. Quite the trendy SoCal shiny new thing. The hook of the tune is "Are you with me, Doctor? Can you hear me, Doctor? Are you with me, Doctor? Can you hear me, Doctor?...Have you done all you can do?" So back 40 years ago secular pop culture declared this is lunacy. Now in the 21st century full bore, the "professional / doctor" trumps the parent or grandma's counsel as you say here! It's been a long time (as Mohler says, and I agree, only less than 100yrs) coming but now fully embraced by school systems and "child advocates" continuing to push down harder on the gas pedal. They're here to help (wink wink nudge nudge). Just ask them. Mrs. Shrier is right. It costs no money to correct this for a start: Parents be parents! With my two cents added: "...and put that stupid phone down!" Orwell was a little early. It's 1984...NOW!
I agree with a lot of your comments about modern parenting and coddling of children. I used to agree with your simplistic view of therapy until I reached a crisis in my personal life. I have been in therapy for three years and have struggled as a Christian to understand what therapy is and does during this process. I found your arguments against therapy to be incredibly facile and ignorant. Look at work being done by Curt Thompson, Michael John Cusick, Sheila Wray Gregoire, and others to learn how Christians can benefit from therapy. For example, I used to believe that ignoring and repressing my emotions so as not to be controlled by them was definitely the best and most godly way to deal with them. I also used to believe that emotions were largely evil. Unfortunately, this doesn't make emotions disappear. God created us in his image which means that he also created emotions. Since we live in a sinful and fallen world, we will experience negative emotions. Emotions are information. They don't have to rule us but in order to not let them rule us, we need to acknowledge that they exist. There is no sin in the fact that they exist. Ignoring them does not make them disappear. It's what we do with them that matters. This is where therapy can help a great deal: finding out what our emotions are, finding out why they are there, finding out where they come from, and attempting to heal or have healed the emotional wounds that may exist, yes, even those that may come from our parents. The point of all this is to help us to grow up emotionally and to become more integrated or whole as a human being. This is participating in the restoration of God's original intention for us when he created us in his image. Just like the Bible doesn't have all the answers for physical healing and so we employ modern medicine to help us, so also the Bible does not have all the answers for psychological healing and integration and so we can receive help from therapists. No human expert has all of the answers even in his or her own field but still we hire humans to help us for many of our needs. Curt Thompson and other Christians working in the mental health field argue that understanding ourselves is essential to spiritual formation. This may involve help from a therapist who may, yes, non-judgmentally validate the fact that your emotions exist and why you may have come to conclusions you have come to in your emotional life. One of the biggest reasons that I have ended up in therapy is because my highly biblically trained and loving father (he was in highest levels of Christian leadership at a private Bible college and also served as a skilled pastor) taught me that emotions were to be repressed and ignored. I love my father. He loved me. But he was wrong and this teaching caused great harm to me. Without acknowledging this fact, I can't grow past this deeply ingrained and harmful teaching in my life. There are things I tell my doctor that I would never ever tell my pastor. There are things I tell my therapist that I would never ever tell my pastor. He is not equipped or trained to handle what I have to bring.
Agree on so many points. I think what it boils down to is the growing necessity of therapy in light of the breakdown of the family/church as a true source of community. You mentioned Curt Thompson - his books constantly highlight the healing that happens in community! We are designed to learn, grow, fail, feel, and heal in the safety of those communities. This interview seems to be between 2 individuals who have that security and safety and therefore don't see the need for alternatives. YES, there is a lot of terrible therapy/information out there and yes, it is damaging when done incompetently, but that doesn't negate the incredible healing work that has been done. Honestly, I think the Bible DOES have all of the answers for healing when viewed from the lens of "it is not good for man to be alone." The law was given to keep us in community! Within those appropriate boundaries, mental health is natural. For the rest of us, family and the modern church have been the source of much of the harm and our childhood trauma keeps us from having deep, meaningful friendships, so therapy is needed. I wish it wasn't, but to vilify all childhood therapy as damaging is, as you say, ignorant. I do hope this continues to open the doors for needed conversation.
GET YOUR KIDS OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOL. That is all. First step to removing therapists access to your kids. Signed a mom of 4 who is making very intentional steps to pay for her children’s private education.
I am a follower of Christ and a psychotherapist and your assumptions are grossly incorrect so I can assume that you are uneducated. The intent of therapy is to treat until resolution and then the client moves on. Additionally, it is the parents responsibility to seek out a therapist who aligns with their values - for them and their children. And your conversation is generalizing to all therapists which is unfair and wrong.
When does that resolution happen? When can you tell a patient is "healed"? You can't. The worldview of psychology itself can't allow it to talk in terms of "healing". You might help someone manage something. That's not healing. And it doesn't end. So don't lie, and claim you're a follower of Christ, please. It's shameful.
@@alex_daniel94 it depends on the purpose of the help they need but one of the first things established in the initial intake would be goals and specifics to work on. Be it less destructive coping methods, bring thought patterns to neutral instead of extremes , working through behaviours that are not ideal such as substances , eating disorders etc... so once those goals are established then they spend the sessions working on the preferred behaviours or thoughts until they become the habit/ norm for that individual. Once those things are established they "graduate" out of the need for therapy. Each person is different and one huge factor that tends to reflect poorly on a therapist is the lack of engagement from the client. If they aren't actually working towards to agreed goal... Well it might look like therapy isn't "working" but thats on them not the entire profession.
@@alex_daniel94 so You causing her not being a follower of Christ based on Abigail Shier's perspective who is not a follower of Christ. Funny how the ones that accuse the christian psychologists that go to other sources to find the truth, they so happily embrace a non christian perspective when suits their views.
She is so incredibly incorrect on everything that she has said in regard to therapy causing children to ruminate on negative thoughts and emotions. That is the complete opposite of what occurs in therapy. And healing doesn’t always need to happen with a therapist. She isn’t a psychotherapist, correct??
Jessica, the stated goal is what you say, but what actually occurs is the opposite. I highly recommend reading the book and really exploring this train of thought before you completely discount it!
Dr. Mohler thank you for having Abigail on. What a brilliant conversation about such an important issue! I am part of book club with my 3 young daughters. We be reading and discussing this book for sure!
Brilliant conversation. Kudos to Abigail and Mohler. Keep up the great work
Pure excellence on both participants!
Tema urgente! Entrevista fantástica.
Dr. Mohler: I want to say, thank you for your practice!
I loved this detailed, informative interview. Well done, Albert Mohler and Abigail Shrier.
Thank you for this. Unfortunately this starts early on with parents. I was mortified when I was asked if I was going to write a letter to the school for my child entering kindergarten. Their reasoning was to have their child placed with the "right" teacher. I said, "he'll get who he gets, & he'll learn to deal with it." This is a journey we take together in preparing them for adulthood. We need to allow our children to problem solve & make choices at an early age. I'm tired of seeing grown children at airports with stuffed animals, child-like pajamas, therapy pets, etc...
She is on point!! As an immigrant to the USA, I have pondered on the same issues I’ve encountered here for the last 20 years. It’s so interesting and bizarre to observe American culture, especially when raising children. Thank you!
Excellent!!!
Thanks so much for this conversation. My siblings and I grew up with a social worker for a mama. Therapy was always the answer back then. Even now I am one of my sister's much needed sounding board and my brother cut family off over 20 years ago.
LOVE this interview!!
It was such a great interview and helpful in understanding the cultural moment, specifically regarding children. I do not want to assume that the negative comments did not watch the whole interview, but I wonder. If they did, they completely misunderstood the conversation, its warnings, and its evaluation of therapy. On more than one occasion the conversation commends therapists and acknowledges the need and benefit in many circumstances. On multiple occasions, they commended therapists who operate with integrity and skill. The negative comments actually reflect those therapists who are not operating with honesty and integrity, understanding the limits and risks of therapy. (I am not saying that the negative commenters lack honesty and integrity, but I am saying they have not understood this conversation and have (even if unwittingly) echoed those who would "wall off" their profession from accountability and criticism.)
The awareness and risks of therapy when it involves children is needed. The warning against the "culture of the therapeutic" is strong. General policies that are treating the healthy are reaping catastrophic returns. This conversation is a powerful reflection on these things. Thank you.
This is so good. You got me hooked since the first few minutes. So good! Thank you!
on the point of a young person going to grandma or to a pastor is that the licensed therapist is going to respect confidentiality. Does anyone think grandma or a pastor isn't going to RUN and rat out the young person?
Another data point of secular culture in general but the government specifically continuing to tear the family apart by disjoining the parents from their children. Fatherless children from the LBJ era of the great society were the spoils of welfare programs by declaring "The government is here to help!" but doing quite the opposite. Now a multi-billion dollar industry never to be reversed. Steely Dan released a tune in 1975 titled Dr. Wu on their Katy Lied album. It's highbrow humor about therapy since all the trendy folks in L.A. had a therapist back then. Quite the trendy SoCal shiny new thing. The hook of the tune is "Are you with me, Doctor? Can you hear me, Doctor? Are you with me, Doctor? Can you hear me, Doctor?...Have you done all you can do?" So back 40 years ago secular pop culture declared this is lunacy. Now in the 21st century full bore, the "professional / doctor" trumps the parent or grandma's counsel as you say here! It's been a long time (as Mohler says, and I agree, only less than 100yrs) coming but now fully embraced by school systems and "child advocates" continuing to push down harder on the gas pedal. They're here to help (wink wink nudge nudge). Just ask them. Mrs. Shrier is right. It costs no money to correct this for a start: Parents be parents! With my two cents added: "...and put that stupid phone down!" Orwell was a little early. It's 1984...NOW!
I agree with a lot of your comments about modern parenting and coddling of children. I used to agree with your simplistic view of therapy until I reached a crisis in my personal life. I have been in therapy for three years and have struggled as a Christian to understand what therapy is and does during this process. I found your arguments against therapy to be incredibly facile and ignorant. Look at work being done by Curt Thompson, Michael John Cusick, Sheila Wray Gregoire, and others to learn how Christians can benefit from therapy.
For example, I used to believe that ignoring and repressing my emotions so as not to be controlled by them was definitely the best and most godly way to deal with them. I also used to believe that emotions were largely evil. Unfortunately, this doesn't make emotions disappear. God created us in his image which means that he also created emotions. Since we live in a sinful and fallen world, we will experience negative emotions. Emotions are information. They don't have to rule us but in order to not let them rule us, we need to acknowledge that they exist. There is no sin in the fact that they exist. Ignoring them does not make them disappear. It's what we do with them that matters. This is where therapy can help a great deal: finding out what our emotions are, finding out why they are there, finding out where they come from, and attempting to heal or have healed the emotional wounds that may exist, yes, even those that may come from our parents. The point of all this is to help us to grow up emotionally and to become more integrated or whole as a human being. This is participating in the restoration of God's original intention for us when he created us in his image.
Just like the Bible doesn't have all the answers for physical healing and so we employ modern medicine to help us, so also the Bible does not have all the answers for psychological healing and integration and so we can receive help from therapists. No human expert has all of the answers even in his or her own field but still we hire humans to help us for many of our needs. Curt Thompson and other Christians working in the mental health field argue that understanding ourselves is essential to spiritual formation. This may involve help from a therapist who may, yes, non-judgmentally validate the fact that your emotions exist and why you may have come to conclusions you have come to in your emotional life.
One of the biggest reasons that I have ended up in therapy is because my highly biblically trained and loving father (he was in highest levels of Christian leadership at a private Bible college and also served as a skilled pastor) taught me that emotions were to be repressed and ignored. I love my father. He loved me. But he was wrong and this teaching caused great harm to me. Without acknowledging this fact, I can't grow past this deeply ingrained and harmful teaching in my life.
There are things I tell my doctor that I would never ever tell my pastor. There are things I tell my therapist that I would never ever tell my pastor. He is not equipped or trained to handle what I have to bring.
Agree on so many points. I think what it boils down to is the growing necessity of therapy in light of the breakdown of the family/church as a true source of community. You mentioned Curt Thompson - his books constantly highlight the healing that happens in community! We are designed to learn, grow, fail, feel, and heal in the safety of those communities. This interview seems to be between 2 individuals who have that security and safety and therefore don't see the need for alternatives.
YES, there is a lot of terrible therapy/information out there and yes, it is damaging when done incompetently, but that doesn't negate the incredible healing work that has been done.
Honestly, I think the Bible DOES have all of the answers for healing when viewed from the lens of "it is not good for man to be alone." The law was given to keep us in community! Within those appropriate boundaries, mental health is natural. For the rest of us, family and the modern church have been the source of much of the harm and our childhood trauma keeps us from having deep, meaningful friendships, so therapy is needed.
I wish it wasn't, but to vilify all childhood therapy as damaging is, as you say, ignorant. I do hope this continues to open the doors for needed conversation.
GET YOUR KIDS OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOL.
That is all. First step to removing therapists access to your kids.
Signed a mom of 4 who is making very intentional steps to pay for her children’s private education.
1. Get them out of public school
2. Don't pay some hellfire and brimstone preacher to Pascal's Wager them until they are paranoid.
Maybe they wouldn't go to therapy if the prescription of "Just pray even harder" doesn't make a difference for them.
Did she appear on the show for her first book?
I am a follower of Christ and a psychotherapist and your assumptions are grossly incorrect so I can assume that you are uneducated. The intent of therapy is to treat until resolution and then the client moves on. Additionally, it is the parents responsibility to seek out a therapist who aligns with their values - for them and their children. And your conversation is generalizing to all therapists which is unfair and wrong.
Agreed
Couldn’t they respond in turn that your assumptions of them are incorrect and unfair?
When does that resolution happen? When can you tell a patient is "healed"? You can't. The worldview of psychology itself can't allow it to talk in terms of "healing". You might help someone manage something. That's not healing. And it doesn't end. So don't lie, and claim you're a follower of Christ, please. It's shameful.
@@alex_daniel94 it depends on the purpose of the help they need but one of the first things established in the initial intake would be goals and specifics to work on. Be it less destructive coping methods, bring thought patterns to neutral instead of extremes , working through behaviours that are not ideal such as substances , eating disorders etc... so once those goals are established then they spend the sessions working on the preferred behaviours or thoughts until they become the habit/ norm for that individual. Once those things are established they "graduate" out of the need for therapy. Each person is different and one huge factor that tends to reflect poorly on a therapist is the lack of engagement from the client. If they aren't actually working towards to agreed goal... Well it might look like therapy isn't "working" but thats on them not the entire profession.
@@alex_daniel94 so You causing her not being a follower of Christ based on Abigail Shier's perspective who is not a follower of Christ. Funny how the ones that accuse the christian psychologists that go to other sources to find the truth, they so happily embrace a non christian perspective when suits their views.
We aren’t letting any authors or teachers talk to the kids & have been boycotting colleges for 3 years
SEL is from the pit.
She is so incredibly incorrect on everything that she has said in regard to therapy causing children to ruminate on negative thoughts and emotions. That is the complete opposite of what occurs in therapy. And healing doesn’t always need to happen with a therapist. She isn’t a psychotherapist, correct??
Will you please back up your statement that “everything she said is incorrect..?”
@@johnmays2486she can't. She'd lose business. :)
Jessica, the stated goal is what you say, but what actually occurs is the opposite. I highly recommend reading the book and really exploring this train of thought before you completely discount it!