Bingo. People are arguing about the midi quality - that's not the point, although that could of been better too. DQ8 had that kind of sound, and it worked. But here, it's the astonishing lack of variety. Smacks of laziness, or, tbh, Sugiyama being an utter dick when he could of added that special magic to what is, in spite of its sonic shortcomings, still a phenomenal game.
you know what makes replaying ffx so great every time ? first you hear calm before the storm in kilika woods , then you hear the luca theme ( which isnt like the besaid or kilika town theme ) then theres mihen highroad ( which i personally dislike ) moonflow , which has one of my favorite themes ever , then guadosalam and the thunderplains with unique themes , macalania again has the kilika theme (calm before the storm) the other part of macalania later has a different theme bikanel and the calmlands have great themes , especially calmlands has a wonderful hd version too ( the music ) you could play ffx while i just am in voice chat with you , and as long as you have your game through your speakers i will be able to tell where you are but for dragonquest , when i reached the new area with the fire slimes , i thought "okay new overworld theme " ( since i saw theres a 2nd on yt before ) nope , totally unfitting theme for an area with a vulcano in the background and generally a hotter environment now i completed the whole sidequest with the prince , the town theme fit the first town better than that one , thats for sure ua-cam.com/video/K8GRDNU50b8/v-deo.html this would fit the town much better like i honestly enjoyed the music , the overworld is simple but catchy , but now after 7 hours its getting boring , i already disliked the battle theme at the start , its not really getting better either
Nail on the head for me. 40+ hours in, and I made a decision to stop playing this game because I was sick of the same 2-3 songs. Music is a huge part of games for me, and the midi quality is something I can get over. Hearing the same marching overworld theme drum by on repeat hour after hour made me give up completely.
I prefer Synthethic... I've listened to battle theme so much, i can't listen to Symphonic version of battle theme without feeling that Symphonic sounds wrong.
I.. think the synthezised one sounds way better. The orchestration is way too generic. But it also doesn't save the melodies from being very uninspired regardless of what instruments you use.
"I can understand not wanting to pay for a full orchestra--" I don't. If you're SquareEnix and you know that DQ is gonna make that sweet sweet yen on name alone then pony up the cash and get the music right. They already work with different symphonies around the world for shows so finding one is not that hard.
That's the thing. It's Square Enix. Moreover, it's one of Square Enix's FLAGSHIP IPs. They don't do this with Final Fantasy, but have to do this shit with Dragon Quest because of Sugiyama.
The Synthezised ones just sound better. Orchestration isn't better by default it has to actually be well done. Which it.. isn't here to be honest. It just doesn't fit the music.
@@Zangelin Bullshit. If that was at all true, it wouldn't even use orchestra samples. The entire purpose of samples is to imitate real instruments, which guarantees that real instruments will never sound worse.
Yeah, after putting in well over 100 hours into the Switch version, just out of curiosity I switched it to the synthesized version. Had to swap it back after 5 minutes, the orchestra sounds so much better. Maybe if I grew up playing the previous DQ games (XI was my first, and so far it's the only one I've played) I would have been used to it but I don't see why anyone would opt for the synthesized version over the orchestra.
I'd purchased the PC version on Steam a few months before the Switch version was revealed and was going to patch in the high quality version of the music but than I said screw it and got the Switch version instead.
@@RandomShinigami7 I grew up with an NES and moved all the way through the generations. I've no problem with MIDI music in general. I can listen to FFVII's MIDI music just fine Using it in modern games feels cheap unless you're purposefully going for a retro style. If you have the option for orchestrated music, or at least well made digitised music (basically nything but MIDI) you should do that. I do not see it as a nostalgia thing, and no-one honestly should either. Because if tradition is king and "How we've always done it" is that important, the games should still be 8bit. Why should graphics advance while music stays in poor quality for the sake of "tradition"?
Stop Skeletons from Fighting - Update, DQ 11 S Definitive Edition for the Nintendo Switch will let the Player choose Orcastrated or Midi soundtrack, both English and Japanese Voice acting and High Difinition graphics or 16 Bit Retro mode. the Upcoming Switch version will be the BEST version of DQ11 to play.
@@_V.Va_ Hell yeah. It has a lot of references to old games (especially the original trilogy), but other than that, yeah it's super accessible. Though it doesn't hurt to try out DQI, DQII and DQIII. They're all ported over to Android and IOS, and to be honest, they are really well-made ports. Well, compared to the other mobile ports Square Enix has done anyway.
As Stuart Ashen would put it: "A fitting punishment." Too bad that the man was an unironic Japanese icon that could mostly dodge major criticism or repercussions, in life. We can now point to his grave and yell criticism at him, but it's a hollow victory.
In Past Mortem three years after this video released: In 2019: Dragon Quest XI S included the orchestrated OSTs, while the original MIDI compositions were added to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate alongside Hero’s inclusion as the game’s third out of twelve post-launch DLC characters. In 2020: Dragon Quest XII was announced. On September 30th, 2021; Koichi Sugiyama passed away.
I was so happy to hear about his passing, sorry but i've got zero sympathy for anyone that denies that Japan committed war crimes, I don't care how "classic" his music was, fuck him.
@@ChadVigilante The LGBTQ community represents a group of human beings born with immutable traits. If you wouldn't discriminate against or look down on someone for the color of their skin, you shouldn't do it because they are gay, lesbian, transsexual, asexual, etc.
+Theroux There's a reason classic games on low tech systems had better and more memorable music: Back then, on *that hardware*, you didn't have a choice. They couldn't make ambient music or sounds sound very good, and couldn't make songs that were musically complex, and old games were boring without constant music, so every game had to be packed with constant music and it all had to be catchy and hummable and focused on the melody and beat. These days, games don't have those limitations. Music can be complex, ambient, generic or absent and work just fine for what it's trying to do. So that's why music went downhill. It doesn't HAVE to be good. It just has to create a feeling. And since the music all went downhill... some people got used to it and got lazy and the music got even worse. So RIP good game music.
I like how before XI S was announced everybody was quick to defend the music quality but then after XI S was confirmed to have an orchestrated ost everyone is like “the old ost is trash and always was trash” Ps: it really was bad.
It was so bad that after 2 hours of playing I told myself "this can't be true, I bet the community has fixed this" and went to google. I instantly found the mod to change the music to the orchestral score :)
@@MegamanNG Very happy for you and the switch community! I've played through the whole game with the orchestra and can't even imagine how some amazing moments would sound with the midi soundtrack. I just hope SE will give a patch to ps4 / Xbox with the switch ost.
Thats why I got the PC version even though my laptop is not as powerful as a gaming computer because I could mod the soundtrack. I wanted to get the PS4 version though. Going to pick up the switch version
I don’t think people realize how much of what they hear in music and soundtracks is still, in fact, midi. Midi doesn’t mean shitty, it’s more a difference in composition and recording workflow. Sample choice, repetitive composition and mixing are the issues here, not midi as a technology.
Indeed. Even many real recorded sessions are controlled by midi in some way. They might record a real orchestra and then use midi to automate all the levels, compression, effects etc. of the master
yes. most music today that uses 𝗺𝗶𝗱𝗶 are not 𝗺𝗶𝗱𝗶 files that are played directly. today, 𝗺𝗶𝗱𝗶 music is most often played in one of two ways, that let the composer choose the sound of the instruments exactly: the 𝗺𝗶𝗱𝗶 music is exported in a format for pre-recorded audio - like 𝗼𝗴𝗴 or 𝗺𝗽𝟯 - from the music program (𝗱𝗮𝘄), with the samples and effects that the composer chose in the music program. or the game comes with its own samples and effects that the 𝗺𝗶𝗱𝗶 files get played with. this freedom of control lets composers make great and real-sounding music, if they're good enough at using the tools
OMG... Many seem that they did not play RPG video games in their life and now it comes to say that repetitive music .. Play any Final Fantasy (VI, VII, VIII, IX, X ...) battle music It is always the same in ordinary battles, from beginning to end, it is the one that you will hear the most by far. Does it game worse? Complain now after decades...
@@Zekushion6 in ff there is also different music for the different levels you are in. In dragon quest 11 there one music for the main big world, one music for caves/dungeons and sometimes when you're lucky you get a different music when you get in a town. And even that they manage to mess it up because some town music are used for two different towns. I didn't mind the one combat music, but damn when I get more excited when the music changes rather than a story related event, you clearly did something wrong with your game.
@@snuppssynthchannel The graphics only look bad if you at them reeeaaaalllllyyyy closely, but whose gonna spend 100+ hours just looking at rocks really closely instead of playing the game?
So much coming out on my birth month dq the superior version, monster hunter icy world ultimate, and Luigi’s 3rd wheel on his own vacation cause he won’t invite daisy 3 ( which is as sad as it is Funny
I know why you used the term midi but that's not quite right. The NES had dedicated synth hardware for sound which negated the use of Midi. Midi wasn't really a thing on consoles until the 5th generation. It's a memory hog without dedicated midi hardware. Midi is more like USB a hardware standard with software instrument libraries. No samples, think like doom. You are thinking of something like Sega's gems or unreal engine mod system. They were libraries or software designed to make programming instruments and samples easier.
It's not that the songs themselves are bad, it's the lack of songs that is the issue. With only 5 tracks, it gets annoying fast and becomes intolerable.
@@MrSafior Well I really like the music from dragon quest and I dont really feel like abstaining from it just because of Sugiyama. You can love a persons art without liking the artist, atleast thats what I think
@@keto4366 Bullshit, don't give me that "nobody is an angel" crap, people who use their power to denied war crime and the suffering of minority. Also by you'r screwy logic, only douchebag can make "good work" ? That a great phylosophy. No bad person don't deserve credit and even less getting approval, therefore more power to hurt people, just because they do some good work!
In my opinion the individual pieces in the new dragon quest aren't all that bad. I mostly have a problem with the amount of repetition and diversity within the soundtrack.
The music in the Playstation 4 version of Dragon Quest XI (just like the 3DS version) are prerecorded streamed music files (kinda like an MP3 or WAV). Technically you should call this synth(esized) music, not MIDI. MIDI carries no audio information. It is not, itself, music. Instead, it's a set of instructions that tell something that can create audio/music what to do, but DQXI doesn't use (MIDI-like) sequenced music.
i think that there was a confusion in the video script. In 4:59 she does explain what MIDI is, but claims that NES uses it. She also proceeds to ignore her own explanation about MIDI and calls all synthesized video game music MIDI. It's... weird. I liked the video tho
To be even more precise. The music of DQXI PS4 are prerecorded ATRAC9 files. They're very similar to MP3. They're both lossy music files. Still...."synth" music should suffice 😉
@@Daidoro If I'm being totally honest, his music isn't even that good imo, I much prefer other video game composers but music is subjective anyways so w/e
@@crubat9429 nah, thats understandable...His dragon quest theme will always be iconic and he does have some standout soundtracks but he is definitely not nearly as dynamic as other composers..Yoko Shimamura is honestly underrated (I think so), her work in Front Mission was incredibly underrated..
that's basically all I ever knew this guy for, that and his homophobic comments that he made a few years ago. I heard some DQ music before I knew who he was and was never particularly impressed by it.
My only problem with the music is that there isn't enough of it. I don't think MIDI is objectively never as good than Orchestral, I actually prefer it in some cases. It gets a big nostalgia modifier from me, I liked the retro feel, got late 80's/early 90's anime vibes which complement Toriyama's art style very well
I think we can all agree this game has about 1/3rd or 1/4th the number of unique tracks that it should have. It's even worse when a lot of the battle themes sound like each other or are just variations on each other.
I think the main issue was the amount of recycled songs from previous games. The new songs, however, reminded me of every other DQ game. You can always expect a great battle theme, great overworld theme, some good town themes, awful boss/final boss themes, and terrible dungeon themes, with a few exceptions like V (which has great dungeon themes) and VIII (which has both great boss/final boss themes and a great dungeon theme). For better or worse, XI is no different.
tbh DQ music overall is mediocre to my ear. orchestrated doesn't really change the fact that it still sounds meh. some lower budget company such as falcom has 10 times better music than DQ. the story and the gameplay however is kinda okayish
@@Jordan3DS I think Sugiyama's standard boss themes are generally solid (I'll even stick up for VII's and IX's), and like you said, his standard battle themes are always great. I think Sugiyama knows how to make a good battle theme, it's just that about half the time he decides to go in a different direction with his final boss themes that make them an acquired taste at best. III, VI, VIII, IX, and X all have good to great final boss themes IMO (haven't listened to XI's yet).
Okay, so I'm not crazy! DQXI on the Switch is my first DQ game, and I was confused as to why people were complaining so much about the music. Then I changed the music to "synthesized" out of curiosity. I couldn't last two minutes. It can't be overstated how much the orchestrated soundtrack adds to the experience (and emotion) of DQXI.
I actually turned down the music because the default had it so loud that when I'd turn my speaker volume down, it would drown out the dialogue. Because of that, I barely noticed the game had music, ha!
Hey electronic musician/sound design nerd here I dont want to he that guy but youre using the word midi wrong. midi is a form of data or a language developed a long time ago for musical intruments. it is not a "sample" there is no such thing as a "midi sample" instead midi is the data that is being used to trigger a sample of audio. or it is used to do other things as well such as turn volume up or down or add effects...think of it as a virtual pair of hands turning knobs and playing keys. This is the reasom 8 bit sounds the way it does. midi information is controlling the systems soundcard telling it to produce basic waveshapes. ie saw, pulse, triangle, sine(classic video game sounds)...Also you can make orchestrations with samples that are just as good as acoustic recordings from the real thing but it takes a lot of effort in automating things properly...I dont think the fact that he used samples made it bad but that he was lazy and clearly did not understand how to properly automate things in his daw or whatever method he used.
Well put. I used to sit with Pro Tracker (?) on my Amiga and an Alesis synthesizer. Had an external midi interface for the computer. Damn I was so bad at music. Sorry for the nostalgia rant.
NES didn't use midi... It used tracker programs and a dedicated APU. If you were to try and make genuine 8bit music, for example, the last thing you would do is use midi. Old PC games started using midi format which is why soundcards were a big deal back in the day. Try out an old arrangement program (they should have a free version) which actually uses midi called "tabit" and you'll see what I mean. Also, DQXI doesn't use midi either. You said it yourself when you mentioned "poor quality samples". Midi format uses built-in soundcard hardware to play arrangements and doesn't actually include any audio. Think of MIDI more as instructions for what the soundcard will play. DQXI uses prerecorded audio. I think what you're trying to say is that they used digital instruments rather than live orchestra audio. There was likely another reason they decided to use the digital arrangements, I guess you'd have to ask them. All that said... I really don't think the quality is so bad.
Although I agree with 99.9 % of what you said, I think in the end we should not dismiss how much copyright laws (especially in the entertainment industry, and in-between Japanese people) are enforced by the Japanese themselves. I remember how I was strangely fascinated by all the JASRAC-catalog-reference found in footnotes of manga pages when the characters where singing or even simply humming a song.
If you're composing using digital instruments or samples in the last 20 years, I'd be really surprised if MIDI standard was not involved. Typically that's the interface for triggering virtual instruments and samples.
Now only Horii is left of the OG team. When Sugiyama passed away I was ... well, to put it bluntly, I was optimistic about the musical future of DQ. In recent games, his compositions had been rather uninspired, vaguely fantasy-themed noodling. Losing Toriyama hurts infinitely more. I hope Bird Studio will continue to carry his torch because there's no DQ without the Toriyama art style.
Its creepy how this video showed up in my recommends. I 've not looked up , referenced, or searched for anything Dragonquest related as far as I can remember. However, I was having this same conversation with my wife who just bought me the game! While I totally agree the music in this game is lacking (annoyingly so) its kinda scary this video was on my front page. Is the PC listening to me? LEARNING!?
Your phone is definitely listening to you. And if you share same email on all your devices, them they are all in sync... listening..trying to sell you something.
@@AntBeastin1991 It might not be inconceivable that the PC is as well, if you have either a laptop with a built-in mic or any other kind of external mic (headset, recording mic, webcam mic, etc.), also due to email and other things.
I remember that one day a friend ask me through Messenger what kind of character I wanted printed on a shirt she was going to give me and I started asking her to send me pictures of the shirt with "Metroid" and She did, after we stopped messaging facebook started suggesting links where to buy shirts
I can think of something and if my phone is in the same room, while I am not talking to anyone, and yet my phone will show me things related to what I thought mere minutes ago.... it is scary.
All tracks are MIDIs and there aren't even new remixes, which is a real shame because we already seen they somehow turned Beneath The Mask into an absolute banger
@@polocatfan Well when you're dealing with Sugiyama, who is very against others using his music, its not like he had a choice. He didn't even allow the normal DQ 11 to have the orchestrated version of the soundtrack, he tried selling that on his own. So with someone like that, I really doubt Sakurai had a choice
Funny, coming back to this video and learning about his death. I don’t have any respect for Sugiyama at all after watching this video, but he created some of the most iconic music of all time. That I’ll remember about his legacy at least.
I wonder how Dragon Quest are going to do without Sugiyama's music now? Square Enix doesn't have ownership to them and there's currently no one to replace him. They deserve to be rewritten to really match the world better & be done by a better composer that helps fit the theme of those titles. I mean, they could chose Yoko Shimomura to replace his work aside from remixes and the main theme.
Then take off the soylatte squited glasses, and look up the truth, look up one of my recent posts and i have disproven the lies, unless derek alexander wants to delete my comment.
@@cartooncritic7045 dragon quest main theme was definitely iconic enough to be played in the introduction parades of the olympics..that said, yes sugiyama is a shitty person that i will not shed a tear for
Agreed. We should try and discuss which composer would better off replacing him altogether. After all, music is key for any game, provided its not out-sourced.
Even with the full orchestration of the Switch version there’s WAY too few songs. Why does a basic Zelda or Mario game have so many more tracks than Dragon Quest? Almost every town and every open area (including at night) has the same music.
I get your point but Breath of the Wild has like ten songs and half of them is just some intern furiously banging away on a piano. Probably my main gripe with that game. Nintendo pls.
@@jeremy8473 Believe me, I've been a fan since the '80s. BotW has very little music in comparison to the previous fans. Perhaps because there are no real dungeons.
@@lobstrosity7163 Is it because Zelda uses music from previous games, unlike Dragon Quest which has different music for Battles, towns, and overworld every game?
Hey, honestly I’ve got a gut feeling that Sakurai pulled some strings, plus they promised remixes. So I wouldn’t be too worried (I’m just hoping that they add more ffvii and possibly Mario rpg music too when hero releases)
5:32 wow wow wow... put on the brakes there. First, the Famicom/NES did not use something as advanced as midi nor were the music scored using midi. The music was written with a simple proprietary assembly program (kinda like a tracker program) using only 4 channels. Second, think of midi as digital sheet music. What program or hardware one uses to interpret the notes and stuff will single handily define how the sheet music sounds be it a Roland sound canvas or Reason by propellarhead
I don't get it, I was expecting some atrocious pieces of music, but when you played them I only thought, "this really isn't that bad, I still kinda like it". Obviously it's subjective, you can dislike the midi version of the soundtrack, that's fair. However, it was just such an overreaction to something that I felt _really_ didn't need it- be it played up for the sake of the video or otherwise, it just felt unnecessary. It's not that bad, I get that the horns may be relatively low in quality, but it comes across as rather snobbish from the video. It came across as a, "this soundtrack fucking sucks, it's _so_ bad, you must be brain-dead to enjoy it", kinda reaction, of course exaggerated- more than it already was anyways. And yes, I get that it's all about Sugiyama and how he's the reason behind all of this, and I agree that he's a jackass. But over-exaggerating how bad the music is _purely_ because the samples aren't the best- almost as though it's torture to listen to- just irks me, again kinda sounds like, "We're forced to sit through horrendously shitty music and who's fault is it? HIS, it's *_HIS_* fault- if it weren't for him, we'd have _amazing_ music". It's not wrong to say any of this, because it's true that he's keeping us from just _having_ the orchestrated soundtrack, but the way that it's said (while not as exaggerated as I made it sound) was just too extreme to sound reasonable. Though the Switch is getting the Orchestrated soundtrack without having to resort to mods which is nice. Basically, the difference isn't _that_ big, but I guess that it's just used to make a point. Then again, you can sound reasonable _while _*_also_* giving the same points.
I dunno, if you ever grew up with Dragon Quest XII, and have fond memories of that game, you also would have been massively disappointed when it wasn't orchestrated. What poured even more salt on the wound was the fact that it was created, but simply wasn't put on the disc. That music sounds better when orchestrated.
@@cartereckblad Oh ok! I wasn't sure if you meant VII and I was a bit confused because it was originally synthesized. Thanks for clarifying and sorry if I sounded smart-assy, I was half asleep lol.
@@cartereckblad VIII was only orchestrated in the western version, where they literally ripped it all from the Symphonic Suite CD. Thus, it sounds terrible in game, but great when listening to it from the actual CD itself. Arrangements are nice, but they rarely fit being played in the games themselves, especially in this case when every Symphonic Suite song has a terrible echo due to the means of recording.
I'm not a pro, but I have enough knowledge about music production to say: It's pretty good. But it cannot compete. The used samples don't sound like real instruments, but i feel like that was a deliberate decision to give it this sweet sweet nostalgic 80s/90s vibe. The quality itself is fine. But damn. It's way too repetitive.
13:25 "Okay, I just don't understand" Not sure what you don't understand tbh. The synthesized version has more present percussion, more audible bass, and the instruments are mixed to be in the front of the track as opposed to the orchestral version which is more spacial and has a heavy emphasis on reverb. Some of us grew up with 8-bit and 16-bit systems and have a fondness more classic video game aesthetics, and some prefer a live symphony. It's really not that deep.
5:13 they... Didn't use MIDI. MIDI is a specific standard, that game consoles were not compatible with. Sure, they only stored the notes, but they weren't midi.
I think the analysis here is way off base. I think the biggest problem with the soundtrack is the context in which most of the music gets played, and the tempo and theming of the music, rather than using MIDI based instruments. For example, when wandering around the second world, you quickly realize that it's the same field music as the first. The tempo is fast, the loops short and repetitive. This music doesn't really FIT walking around a large serene field speckled with small monsters, but more fits the theme of an animated show, or at best walking around an overworld in 4 directions.. but not because of the samples used. What's worse is you wander around for a while to grind, an absolute requirement of the game in order to beat the bosses, and then night falls. The screen fades to black, and back up to a night palette with - the exact same music. You can have Midi based music sound fantastic, and the samples aren't bad in DQXI. The music was written without tempo changes or key shifts in mind. It was written to emulate the style and approach of much older games, and even when played by a full orchestra still sounds out of date and stiff. Then take Nobuo Uematsu, whom instead of writing video game music, wrote music that was then adapted for video games. You listen to Metamorphasis, Dancing Mad, The Red Wings, and Inside the Giant, and much more was taken into consideration from the very conception of those musical scores. The music isn't simply meant to be a theme, but rather is meant to carry emotion and almost tell a story itself. The lone trumpet blaring over strings played to a marching time signature with military drumming burried beneath it all helps bring us to understand Cecil's uncertainty and hesitation at the beginning of Final Fantasy 4, while also being a fitting final march on the moon to both remind us of where we started and that we must press on for this final confrontation. And that's not even a tune widely regarded as a masterpiece of the series. Then you go to DQ XI. The music is written to be.... serviceable. Themes for what you should be doing as a gameplay mechanic at the time. Walk, fight, walk, fight, talk and shop, walk, fight. The music adds nothing to the environments, leaving everything with a bland, plain yogurt taste to it. There are seemingly also far fewer tracks in total, so there's a lot of repeating music in terms of quantity of tracks, which only highlights the general short length of tracks before you start the same song over. But then, what they clearly wanted to create with DQ XI is an NES JRPG experience with prettier models and old game design logic. To that end, they succeeded. The success of the music overall, however, leaves much to be desired without even considering what samples were used.
It's entirely possible to use electronic sounds, even when not doing "techno" music, and have them both be nostalgic and pleasant to hear. Shit, look at what the Amiga demoscene has done with that system. Here's some examples. ua-cam.com/video/O_GSzuxGUvQ/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/Zbp3o5ioraU/v-deo.html (actual Amiga music starts at 0:08) And an example from a game, the absolutely BEAUTIFUL main theme to Agony (not that one). ua-cam.com/video/X9UTnUcyED0/v-deo.html I think the point you make is actually pretty good, that DQ XI's music is mostly just... THERE. However, I'm not sure I agree that they succeeded in the NES feel. Some of those old games had BEAUTIFUL music, especially Dragon Warrior III and IV. This sounds rote by comparison.
Why does this video have so many dislikes? Is it because it calls DQ11's music bad? Is it because it calls Sugiyama a bad person and that's like, insulting DQ as a series in some way? Or is there misinformation in here I"m not aware of. All in all it seems like a well put together video with decent information. Actually just got to the part where you forced me to listen to Yoshi's New Island music so that's definitely worth hating. Reeeee
I was on board with this video until the "Yikes" chapter, because I can't get behind the idea that we should be scrutinizing a person's political views to determine whether their work is good or that we should be working with them as I think they leads to a fractious society and community. He can use his money in whatever stupid way he wants. This is especially annoying when you can make a perfectly strong case that its time to move on based on him insisting on lowering the quality of the product based on personal greed or based on the idea that his quality has gone down and so its time to move on. But instead it's gotta be about historical revisionism or sexual politics.
A lot of people were quick to defend Sugiyama. I get the impression that most of it was from non-DQ fans who got uncomfortable when the video got "political," since every actual DQ fan I've spoken to seems very frustrated with Sugiyama, to put it lightly.
@@2kano113 I think it's super valid to be frustrated with Sugiyama, because he's screwing over everyone who bought the PS4 version (including me) out of what seems to be simply greed. There are plenty of valid reasons to be mad at him as a result, and as such there's no need to go into his personal life.
@@valiantparagonvideos2383 Yeah, because his problematic political views are perfectly fine, since shitty personality traits from influential people with a worldwide audience have no bearing on anything whatsoever. Get out of here with this bullshit. If his "personal life" really didn't matter then the dislike would be lower. The only reason it's that high is because we have a lot of shit apologists like you crying foul anytime someone's called out for being a dick. Sorry, EVERY time someone's called out for being a dick for racist, sexist, or homophobic reasons. No one's buying your bullshit rhetoric except other race apologists. Sugiyama can be a crappy creator AND human being. You're only mad because you care more about him fucking up the OST than him being a dick to an entire group of people for nationalistic and racist reasons.
@@googleisafuckingjoke6855 But the OST is LITERALLY worse because of his political views. If he did not have his views of ownership, which are very much political, we literally would've gotten the symphonic version on PS4 and PC. They are specifically to blame.
God, speaking of the Resident Evil Dualshock Ver. Basement, the story of Mamoru Samuragochi, the deaf composer of RE Dualshock Ver. and Onimusha, who wasn't actually deaf, and Takashi Niigaki, the guy who actually wrote all his songs, is probably one of the most compelling video game composer histories. Great video as always.
After how bad the Director’s Cut was, no one really questioned Samuragochi’s deafness until the truth came out, which is both sad and deeply hilarious.
The Dual Shock version of Resident Evil: Director's Cut actually has quite a few good tracks. Some that are even better than those in the original version such as the end credits music. Buuuuuuut 99.9% of the people that ever criticize the Dual Shock version's soundtrack, they always specifically single out the basement track and never say a word about any of the other tracks on the OST.
The ending theme of the original was pretty bland and boring. The only thing memorable are the gameplay snippets that play throughout. The Dual Shock version's ending thing sounds like you just finished a grand adventure.
Geez I agree that music are subpar but the amount of people that misunderstood what "Midi" mean in this comment sections are staggering. In an essence, midi is just digital music notes. It’s use to trigger samples. That’s it. There are no "Midi Sound" because it doesn’t have a sound in itself. Saying you hate Midi because its sound quality is bad doesn’t make any sense. It’s like saying that you hate using sheets in an orchestra performance because it sounds bad. See, does that make any sense? The things that’s bad here is the samples that Sugiyama is using. It’s just pure low-quality garbage.
@@BigSnipp No, that is the sound of the General MIDI itself. GM is the standardized soundbank for MIDI. The “MIDI” doesn’t contain any sound. It only carried information for the sounds. Think of it as vector vs raster files. MIDI is like what vector is.
@@BigSnipp It doesn’t matter how long you’ve been producing. If you can’t distinguish between “MIDI” and “General MIDI” then you’ve misunderstood the term. That’s it. If you still gonna said that MIDI has a sound then try plugging your MIDI controllers directly into speaker (if you can even do it, no MIDI controllers have audio I/O port for a reason) and see if it makes any.
I really don't get the love for Sugiyama's work. As a classical musician myself I don't find his work to be anything special. Some of it is pretty bad even. There are way more talented composers who need more recognition imo.
True. To my mind, the series' music took a nosedive after DQVIII. The music was always simplisticly old-fashioned, bordering on corny, but it had some stand-out pieces. Considering it was originally written for an 8-bit system with only five sound channels, and the series' slavish devotion to its own tradition may, in combination with the composer's inflexible mindset, explain why it never developed in more modern directions. Now that Sugiyama has passed away, I hope younger, more daring composers like Squareenix' own Yasunori Nishiki inherit his duties.
i kind of a agree with this..I find his music Iconic for sure, and his main theme can never be replaced but I don't think he was that particularly special..Im kind of excited who will be taking over..plenty of great talent out there
People are exaggerating a lot as usual. Same kind of people who say that "30 fps is unplayable". Dude, we had GoldenEye running at like 10 fps in 4 player split screen, and it was playable and we had fun. While I do agree orchestral is better, the synthesis isn't nearly as bad as people here make it out to be. The melodies and harmonies are still as great.
You can use digital orchestras for a game, lots of them do and some even are indistinguishable from a real orchestra. The real problem is the quality of the instruments used and why they sound like that, glad this video explains this. I knew we'd get the shit synthesized versions in Smash and it still hurts. We got Hero and a stage from DQXI in Ultimate, both which are made with such a passion and attention to detail that it really hurts to hear the awful AWFUL sound of some cheap synth orchestra, especially when juxtaposed to the rest of the SSBU soundtrack.
Some really really good examples of this are Konami's Yugioh Capsule Monsters Coliseum and the Falsebound kingdom Just take a listen to Crimson Valley and Marya Denn
Mostly terrible but I looooove Paladin's Quest's raspy saxophone/muted trumpet sample (also the Legend of Kusakari track is obviously intended to be a joke)
Personally, I have just two remarks about the video, but I did appreciate all the work that went into making it. Firstly, it's probably because I was taught how to play the violin at a very early age, but it is "the strings" that do get my attention when I notice how artificial they sound, much more than "the horns" or "the brasses" (sorry if I explained it poorly, English isn't my first language). Secondly, I really can't agree with the use of the acronym MIDI when it's not MIDI... I kinda understand why the name got generally associated with the primitive sound capabilities of early machines, and the compilation of music albums "@MIDI" comes to mind, but I'd rather talk about chiptunes (like for the 8-bits & 16-bits era), modules/sample tracks (for many of the "non-audio-CD" 32-bits era) and full-sound audio for Red Book CD and "monolithic" audio files which are not "interpreted-as-a-sheet-of-music" by the machine but rather played "as is". The games I remember playing with MIDI music were mostly Lucas Arts or Sierra games, but if I had Japanese computers in the '90s, I would have probably been all over the amazing compositions that some of my favourite composers did back then. Thank you anyway for having brought the subjects that were in the video, and I am very saddened by learning how Japanese revisionists are still very active even now. Wishing you a very good end of the year and a very great new one.
That ridiculous kitchen horn-track from *Resident Evil - Director's Cut: Dual-Shock Analog Version - Greatest Hits version* is the epitome of dumpy game music. Also typing out that games proper title+version as seen in your video was more of an undertaking than I thought it was going to be.
I'm happy that Dragon Quest XI S is going to have an option for the orchestral soundtrack. I love his music, but I'm just disappointed in the kind of person that Sugiyama is.
0:58 I literally see no problem with this theme. It sounds alright. My problem with the music is not the "quality" of it (because the average person does not give a shit about that), it's that the game uses them so many times with little to no variety.
I don't think anyone inherently hates MIDI. But I do think Sugiyama has given the MIDI style of music a bad name. Orchestral and Symphonic is a nice change of pace, that sells the "Grand" part of Grand Adventure and it's definitely better and preferred with console releases.
I'd also like to mention two other composers who worked on the series and that I'd very much like returning: Kaoru Wada, who made the soundtrack for the Emblem of Roto prequel, and Manami Matsumae, who worked on Dragon Quest Swords and whose tunes were great as well and fitting for the series.
Playing through dragon quest 11 (my first and so far only dragon quest game) I really didn't enjoy the music, the only song I actually enjoyed was the main theme, but having the same 5 tracks play for over 80 hours was just so insufferable. I probably wouldn't have dislike the soundtrack if there was a more unique songs, but what we got I was not a fan of at all.
I like MIDI music because in the Philippines, our TV shows and movies always have obviously MIDI music, and I grew up with retro games. Also, ‘80s synths sound really great. There are movies with synth soundtracks like John Carpenter’s films and Castle in the Sky (in the Japanese version, the American dub has a newer orchestral soundtrack). Plus, ‘80s pop music still slaps.
Nobody cares what you like or what you grew up with. You're used to something terrible so it's not as terrible to you. Want a cookie? A farm still stinks even if you are used to the smell
I'm not happy that Sugiyama passed away, but he should have chosen his successor and retired a long time ago. He was too old to continue working at this point.
I just hope that DQ 12's music will be actually "good" and most importantly "fitting". That's the issue i had so far that the music didn't really fit most scenes/environments. You want something epic, something chill, something sad etc.. it's as if i heard the same 2-3 tracks 90% of the time in the game which made me lower the music to 1 or even turn it off completely at some points as it got irritating.
For as much the music is good. It literally is the same ones the whole game! I didn't like the battle music and even less so for the Midi version. DQ is good but man, it desperately needs more music.
old commnet but your issue of the music not fitting maybe because a good chunk of tracks in 11 are actually re-used from older games and they don't hit as hard as they were in the respective games
The battle theme was so awful I held off for a year before finally buying it. It's now one of my favorite games now but yeah the music is not Final Fantasy good.
okay, no sugarcoating, I'm not shedding in any tears for his death...He made amazing soundtracks, but he kept the orchaestated stuff hostage for midi..he had shitty beliefs and polical outlooks I dont agree with..Ill celebrate his music, but I won't mourn his death..Im now just wondering, who will take over and start making new tracks too
@@AlternisLiz he did criticize the usa for demanding an apology for Japan's use of comfort woman or sexual slaves during WWII. Also, he is a Nanjing massacre denialist, but I'm not sure if any of this is the reason he kept the rights to the orchestrated versions..
You can also tell midi by the flute and strings. I find it more stand out than the horns. Also, I actually like the faster tempo and steady drumbeat of DQXI’s midi battle theme compared to the orchestral one.
The music wasn't bad... At least not to be titled a bad version of the music. Throughout the game, the music as it was. still hit the strings right emotionally.
It depends what you mean with 'music'. If you mean the composition, then yes it is good music. But the arrangement in the game is horrible. The quality simply does not cut it. Sure, you may like the tunes, but that does not excuse this
I just never felt there were times where it was off putting. I can understand the orchestrated versions were better in their own right. They are. But the intentions to resemble dragon quest 3 in their classic form just hit me. It's just an opinion. I don't like the composer and if it's because he was starting to get lazy, then the whole experience throughout the game as it is. Sorta gets tainted and that is probably more disappointing considering dragon quest 11 deserves more than that since this was made with so much love outside of that crap. What sucks even more is that Dragon quest 11 S for switch is everything original dragon quest isn't. With the orchrestrated music, monster taming, classic mode, added story elements just a whole expansion and other consoles won't get this.
Most early consoles, like the NES/Famicom, did not actually use MIDI technology per se, although they did use custom sequenced formats that worked on the same concept.
+John Rambo. "In middle ages, armies used tanks to besiege castles" -Siege towers arent tanks, tho. -huhh ifya wane go technikel abeut it... No. Nes didnt used midi. She could simply said "Similar to midi". There's no such thing as midi instruments, etc. Don't be a fanboy, those facts in the video were plain wrong
Sometimes the sequenced version can sound really, really awesome, but only when more instrumental variety is used. Compare Dragon Quest VII's battle theme, Fighting Spirit, between the original PlayStation version (sequenced), the Japanese 3DS version (Symphonic), and the western 3DS version (new sequence). The Symphonic version sounds great, of course, and the pre-recorded sequence in the 3DS version of the game does a rather poor job trying to emulate it. But listen to the PlayStation version - it's also sequenced, but on top of it's horns and strings, it's packed with other sounds to fill it out. Honestly, I prefer it over the symphonic versions. Dragon Warrior VII's PS1 soundtrack is a work of art, and in many cases it conveys emotions much more effectively than it's Symphonic Suite or other variants.
Honestly, my problem with the music in DQ11, is the quality of the music in general, you could make it fully orchestrated and it still sounds pretty terrible for 80% of the games scenarios. The other issue is how many godamn tracks there are, theres little to none!
That's my problem too. The music in the orchestral versions of the DQ11 themes, especially for combat music, is repetitive and not very good. It relies far too heavily on trumpet blasts and uses super simple melody lines that just loop over and over and over until I want to kill myself.
@@danielsilva9502 I think people are just unfamiliar with Dragon Quest, as that's how it's always been. The bigger issue is how many songs are recycled from previous games.
Thanks for continuing to spread that the lie that the NES used MIDI. I'm a big fan of the channel, but please do that quick bit of research first. It's a misconception that seems to have gotten more common recently.
Why do they keep employing him? If I hired a composer that said he purposely makes his music shittier to make money on the side, I'd find another composer who'd do his best to make my game great. Then he does stuff like that which makes Square Enix looks like crap for hiring a horrible person, risking their sales and they still use him? Why?
Japan has a reoccurring culture of never changing ways. Sugiyama is synonymous with the franchise. Taking him away is like if FF took Uematsu off the list. No one really will really like the change (is what they think)
The problem is it's a 100+ hour game with 5 tracks. I don't mind the quality of the songs, but there's not nearly enough of them.
Bingo. People are arguing about the midi quality - that's not the point, although that could of been better too. DQ8 had that kind of sound, and it worked. But here, it's the astonishing lack of variety. Smacks of laziness, or, tbh, Sugiyama being an utter dick when he could of added that special magic to what is, in spite of its sonic shortcomings, still a phenomenal game.
Rich Jones It could also be an age issue. He was in his mid 80s when this was being worked on so I doubt he is anywhere near his prime.
you know what makes replaying ffx so great every time ?
first you hear calm before the storm in kilika woods , then you hear the luca theme ( which isnt like the besaid or kilika town theme ) then theres mihen highroad ( which i personally dislike ) moonflow , which has one of my favorite themes ever , then guadosalam and the thunderplains with unique themes , macalania again has the kilika theme (calm before the storm) the other part of macalania later has a different theme
bikanel and the calmlands have great themes , especially calmlands has a wonderful hd version too ( the music )
you could play ffx while i just am in voice chat with you , and as long as you have your game through your speakers i will be able to tell where you are
but for dragonquest , when i reached the new area with the fire slimes , i thought "okay new overworld theme " ( since i saw theres a 2nd on yt before ) nope , totally unfitting theme for an area with a vulcano in the background and generally a hotter environment
now i completed the whole sidequest with the prince , the town theme fit the first town better than that one , thats for sure
ua-cam.com/video/K8GRDNU50b8/v-deo.html
this would fit the town much better
like i honestly enjoyed the music , the overworld is simple but catchy , but now after 7 hours its getting boring , i already disliked the battle theme at the start , its not really getting better either
THIS. I like the MIDI sounds - it takes me back.
Nail on the head for me. 40+ hours in, and I made a decision to stop playing this game because I was sick of the same 2-3 songs. Music is a huge part of games for me, and the midi quality is something I can get over. Hearing the same marching overworld theme drum by on repeat hour after hour made me give up completely.
For the sake of a quick comparison:
0:56 - Synthetic
1:56 - Orchestral
Christopher Luna this hurts to listen to and accept
Daiyaan Slamang i like the midi version. Its a bopping tune. I myself dont mint midi music. As long as its catchy.
I like the midi version better
I prefer Synthethic...
I've listened to battle theme so much, i can't listen to Symphonic version of battle theme without feeling that Symphonic sounds wrong.
I.. think the synthezised one sounds way better. The orchestration is way too generic. But it also doesn't save the melodies from being very uninspired regardless of what instruments you use.
And then the Switch version of the game will have both the synthesized _and_ orchestrated soundtrack.
@iSlayEskimos Wait, Dragon Quest 11 will be available with the music from Dragon Quest 8 in its soundtrack?
@whyemceeay iSlayEskimos Thanks for the heads up. Now we wait for the game to come out...
PC version has had this since release.
Christopher Chilton if you use a mod
Can I have te orchestrated soundtrack on ps4?
I guess it's a post mortem now
yup lol. Someone will obviously step in to compose some of the other tracks for DQ12 now so its a new era for DQ in that regard
thank fuck for that, DQ series is better off without the involvement of a bigoted war crimes denier.
"I can understand not wanting to pay for a full orchestra--"
I don't. If you're SquareEnix and you know that DQ is gonna make that sweet sweet yen on name alone then pony up the cash and get the music right. They already work with different symphonies around the world for shows so finding one is not that hard.
That's the thing. It's Square Enix. Moreover, it's one of Square Enix's FLAGSHIP IPs. They don't do this with Final Fantasy, but have to do this shit with Dragon Quest because of Sugiyama.
The Synthezised ones just sound better. Orchestration isn't better by default it has to actually be well done. Which it.. isn't here to be honest. It just doesn't fit the music.
he's not an asshole, he's just old-school.
if all the world were candy and nuts, we'd all be living in lollipop huts...
@@Zangelin Bullshit. If that was at all true, it wouldn't even use orchestra samples. The entire purpose of samples is to imitate real instruments, which guarantees that real instruments will never sound worse.
God, the music on the Switch version sounds so much better.
Yeah, after putting in well over 100 hours into the Switch version, just out of curiosity I switched it to the synthesized version. Had to swap it back after 5 minutes, the orchestra sounds so much better. Maybe if I grew up playing the previous DQ games (XI was my first, and so far it's the only one I've played) I would have been used to it but I don't see why anyone would opt for the synthesized version over the orchestra.
They are still bad pieces
I'd purchased the PC version on Steam a few months before the Switch version was revealed and was going to patch in the high quality version of the music but than I said screw it and got the Switch version instead.
@@eval_is_evil no they really aren’t lmao.
@@RandomShinigami7 I grew up with an NES and moved all the way through the generations. I've no problem with MIDI music in general. I can listen to FFVII's MIDI music just fine
Using it in modern games feels cheap unless you're purposefully going for a retro style.
If you have the option for orchestrated music, or at least well made digitised music (basically nything but MIDI) you should do that. I do not see it as a nostalgia thing, and no-one honestly should either. Because if tradition is king and "How we've always done it" is that important, the games should still be 8bit. Why should graphics advance while music stays in poor quality for the sake of "tradition"?
Stop Skeletons from Fighting - Update, DQ 11 S Definitive Edition for the Nintendo Switch will let the Player choose Orcastrated or Midi soundtrack, both English and Japanese Voice acting and High Difinition graphics or 16 Bit Retro mode.
the Upcoming Switch version will be the BEST version of DQ11 to play.
Would DQ11S be a great place to jump into the series?
@@_V.Va_ Hell yeah. It has a lot of references to old games (especially the original trilogy), but other than that, yeah it's super accessible. Though it doesn't hurt to try out DQI, DQII and DQIII. They're all ported over to Android and IOS, and to be honest, they are really well-made ports. Well, compared to the other mobile ports Square Enix has done anyway.
it's a shame there won't be an update for the PC version then. I'm shit out of luck and I don't have a switch...
@@wardogs667 - NEW Switch Lite starts at $199 + TX.
@@_V.Va_ - I would recommend starting with DQ2 & 3.
“You already know who owns the license”
Ad plays: TROJAN MAN
lmao
So is a MIDI orchestra going to perform at his funeral?
As Stuart Ashen would put it: "A fitting punishment."
Too bad that the man was an unironic Japanese icon that could mostly dodge major criticism or repercussions, in life. We can now point to his grave and yell criticism at him, but it's a hollow victory.
@@MrNobody47710 Victory? You are legitimately disgusting. You're talking about the man's death as if he's massacred millions of people.
Lol. I'm late, but I hope they did.
In Past Mortem three years after this video released:
In 2019: Dragon Quest XI S included the orchestrated OSTs, while the original MIDI compositions were added to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate alongside Hero’s inclusion as the game’s third out of twelve post-launch DLC characters.
In 2020: Dragon Quest XII was announced.
On September 30th, 2021; Koichi Sugiyama passed away.
Good riddance
I was so happy to hear about his passing, sorry but i've got zero sympathy for anyone that denies that Japan committed war crimes, I don't care how "classic" his music was, fuck him.
@@ChadVigilante then you're a vile catch u next tuesday who should be locked up.
burn in hell bigot.
@@ChadVigilante Being homophobic, transphobic and supporting sex slavery is not "based"
@@ChadVigilante The LGBTQ community represents a group of human beings born with immutable traits. If you wouldn't discriminate against or look down on someone for the color of their skin, you shouldn't do it because they are gay, lesbian, transsexual, asexual, etc.
Yo know what does have good horns? Gen 3 Pokémon
They had to otherwise they would break with the heavy use
Now that's a fair assumption. Why is it early 2000s GBA games produce far better and more memorable music than a 2018 AAA PS4 release?
Let's just be glad that ign didn't put "too many trumpets" in its list of cons.
You know what else has good horns!?......... And his name is John Cena!!
+Theroux
There's a reason classic games on low tech systems had better and more memorable music: Back then, on *that hardware*, you didn't have a choice.
They couldn't make ambient music or sounds sound very good, and couldn't make songs that were musically complex, and old games were boring without constant music, so every game had to be packed with constant music and it all had to be catchy and hummable and focused on the melody and beat. These days, games don't have those limitations. Music can be complex, ambient, generic or absent and work just fine for what it's trying to do. So that's why music went downhill. It doesn't HAVE to be good. It just has to create a feeling.
And since the music all went downhill... some people got used to it and got lazy and the music got even worse.
So RIP good game music.
I like how before XI S was announced everybody was quick to defend the music quality but then after XI S was confirmed to have an orchestrated ost everyone is like “the old ost is trash and always was trash”
Ps: it really was bad.
Mostly since Sugiyomi is a grade-a asshole.
It was so bad that after 2 hours of playing I told myself "this can't be true, I bet the community has fixed this" and went to google. I instantly found the mod to change the music to the orchestral score :)
@@revolvingpathos9015 Smart idea. Thank god the Switch version has the orchestrated soundtrack and I will be using it.
@@MegamanNG Very happy for you and the switch community! I've played through the whole game with the orchestra and can't even imagine how some amazing moments would sound with the midi soundtrack. I just hope SE will give a patch to ps4 / Xbox with the switch ost.
Thats why I got the PC version even though my laptop is not as powerful as a gaming computer because I could mod the soundtrack. I wanted to get the PS4 version though. Going to pick up the switch version
I don’t think people realize how much of what they hear in music and soundtracks is still, in fact, midi. Midi doesn’t mean shitty, it’s more a difference in composition and recording workflow. Sample choice, repetitive composition and mixing are the issues here, not midi as a technology.
Indeed. Even many real recorded sessions are controlled by midi in some way. They might record a real orchestra and then use midi to automate all the levels, compression, effects etc. of the master
*slams table*
THANK YOU
@@DonnyKirkMusic wow I did not know that, you learn something new everyday! Especially if it has to do with Dark Souls :)
yes.
most music today that uses 𝗺𝗶𝗱𝗶
are not 𝗺𝗶𝗱𝗶 files that are played directly.
today, 𝗺𝗶𝗱𝗶 music is most often played in one of two ways, that let the composer choose the sound of the instruments exactly:
the 𝗺𝗶𝗱𝗶 music is exported in a format for pre-recorded audio - like 𝗼𝗴𝗴 or 𝗺𝗽𝟯 - from the music program (𝗱𝗮𝘄), with the samples and effects that the composer chose in the music program.
or the game comes with its own samples and effects that the 𝗺𝗶𝗱𝗶 files get played with.
this freedom of control lets composers make great and real-sounding music, if they're good enough at using the tools
They’re not complaining about the soundtrack being a midi but the samples themselves are awful.
I completed dragon quest 11 after 100 hours on hard. Yes, the music was so repetitive i lowered the volume after 50 hours.
Does the hardmode involve putting the volume to the max?
@@Narusasu98 definitely 😂😂
OMG... Many seem that they did not play RPG video games in their life and now it comes to say that repetitive music .. Play any Final Fantasy (VI, VII, VIII, IX, X ...) battle music It is always the same in ordinary battles, from beginning to end, it is the one that you will hear the most by far. Does it game worse? Complain now after decades...
@@Zekushion6 in ff there is also different music for the different levels you are in. In dragon quest 11 there one music for the main big world, one music for caves/dungeons and sometimes when you're lucky you get a different music when you get in a town. And even that they manage to mess it up because some town music are used for two different towns. I didn't mind the one combat music, but damn when I get more excited when the music changes rather than a story related event, you clearly did something wrong with your game.
@@Zekushion6 nah, there's no boss music, not music for different towns, there's on theme that plays when an intense thing happens
Came back here after Sugiyama-san passed on just now at the age of 90!
man.. if he would have died just a bit sooner we could have gotten more dq music in smash.
@@fistpump64 that's fucked up but true.
Man, it's still really hard to sympathize with the guy, even if you understand why he's like that
Good riddance.
Don't call him that. He denied the Rape of Nanjing. He's dead, and good.
He isn't worth the honorific.
Glad the bastard's gone.
Good news is that the switch release is fully orchestrated
If you dont mind the graphics :(
@@eval_is_evil The graphics aren't that different really, the S version is still very playable.
@@snuppssynthchannel The graphics only look bad if you at them reeeaaaalllllyyyy closely, but whose gonna spend 100+ hours just looking at rocks really closely instead of playing the game?
@@paperluigi6132 True.
@@paperluigi6132 Not even bad, just not as good. I think even the S version is a good looking game.
whatever Nintendo or Square Enix or whoever did, we got orchestral tracks now
So much coming out on my birth month dq the superior version, monster hunter icy world ultimate, and Luigi’s 3rd wheel on his own vacation cause he won’t invite daisy 3 ( which is as sad as it is Funny
Hmm, I’m just hoping they pulled the right strings not only to do that, but also add more than two songs to smash when the character gets released
Ok but sugiyama is still using that good good SE money to deny war crimes
Not in Smash tho
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand we didn't get it
I know why you used the term midi but that's not quite right. The NES had dedicated synth hardware for sound which negated the use of Midi. Midi wasn't really a thing on consoles until the 5th generation. It's a memory hog without dedicated midi hardware. Midi is more like USB a hardware standard with software instrument libraries. No samples, think like doom. You are thinking of something like Sega's gems or unreal engine mod system. They were libraries or software designed to make programming instruments and samples easier.
I love this channel especially punching weight
When I heard "used a technology call MIDI" I went straight to the comments to see if someone made a correction on the use of MIDI. Thanks.
My ignorance is dying you baster
The word you're looking for is protocol. MIDI is a protocol. About the rest, spot on, have a thumbs up.
And NES didn't have a synth like the Genesis with FM Synth. NES had a soundchip.
It's not that the songs themselves are bad, it's the lack of songs that is the issue. With only 5 tracks, it gets annoying fast and becomes intolerable.
no.... the songs themselves are bad
Few songs because Sugiyama was very old.
Classic case of "Love the work, Hate the Jerk."
So don't listen/read their work so they wont get any approval and money.
@@MrSafior Well I really like the music from dragon quest and I dont really feel like abstaining from it just because of Sugiyama. You can love a persons art without liking the artist, atleast thats what I think
@@CuriousKnuckle I disagree.
Shitty people shoulnd't get support.
MrSafior If you go by that logic we never will have great work. Nobody is a clean innocent angel. Always separate art from the artist.
@@keto4366 Bullshit, don't give me that "nobody is an angel" crap, people who use their power to denied war crime and the suffering of minority.
Also by you'r screwy logic, only douchebag can make "good work" ? That a great phylosophy.
No bad person don't deserve credit and even less getting approval, therefore more power to hurt people, just because they do some good work!
In my opinion the individual pieces in the new dragon quest aren't all that bad. I mostly have a problem with the amount of repetition and diversity within the soundtrack.
The music in the Playstation 4 version of Dragon Quest XI (just like the 3DS version) are prerecorded streamed music files (kinda like an MP3 or WAV). Technically you should call this synth(esized) music, not MIDI.
MIDI carries no audio information. It is not, itself, music. Instead, it's a set of instructions that tell something that can create audio/music what to do, but DQXI doesn't use (MIDI-like) sequenced music.
You're talking to people who think NES games used MIDI. You're wasting your breath.
i think that there was a confusion in the video script. In 4:59 she does explain what MIDI is, but claims that NES uses it. She also proceeds to ignore her own explanation about MIDI and calls all synthesized video game music MIDI. It's... weird. I liked the video tho
Unfortunately MIDI seems to have become a shorthand for any type of sequenced music and any music that sounds like it's from a retro console.
To be even more precise. The music of DQXI PS4 are prerecorded ATRAC9 files. They're very similar to MP3. They're both lossy music files. Still...."synth" music should suffice 😉
Well Sugiyama would have made the music using MIDI though
Had to revisit this video, after hearing about his death
Good riddance 🙂
@@crubat9429 You are not wrong about the old man with controversy (except his music, of course).
@@Daidoro If I'm being totally honest, his music isn't even that good imo, I much prefer other video game composers but music is subjective anyways so w/e
@@crubat9429 Yeah, I sought out a few tracks after he died. I was not impressed, especially compared to Uematsu and Shimomura.
@@crubat9429 nah, thats understandable...His dragon quest theme will always be iconic and he does have some standout soundtracks but he is definitely not nearly as dynamic as other composers..Yoko Shimamura is honestly underrated (I think so), her work in Front Mission was incredibly underrated..
came for music didnt expect war crimes
Always expect war crimes when it comes to Japan
@@spudsbuchlaw so does the US and every major world power in the world today
that's basically all I ever knew this guy for, that and his homophobic comments that he made a few years ago. I heard some DQ music before I knew who he was and was never particularly impressed by it.
My only problem with the music is that there isn't enough of it. I don't think MIDI is objectively never as good than Orchestral, I actually prefer it in some cases. It gets a big nostalgia modifier from me, I liked the retro feel, got late 80's/early 90's anime vibes which complement Toriyama's art style very well
I think we can all agree this game has about 1/3rd or 1/4th the number of unique tracks that it should have. It's even worse when a lot of the battle themes sound like each other or are just variations on each other.
I think the main issue was the amount of recycled songs from previous games. The new songs, however, reminded me of every other DQ game. You can always expect a great battle theme, great overworld theme, some good town themes, awful boss/final boss themes, and terrible dungeon themes, with a few exceptions like V (which has great dungeon themes) and VIII (which has both great boss/final boss themes and a great dungeon theme). For better or worse, XI is no different.
tbh DQ music overall is mediocre to my ear. orchestrated doesn't really change the fact that it still sounds meh. some lower budget company such as falcom has 10 times better music than DQ. the story and the gameplay however is kinda okayish
I wish there were more. Imo midi sounds better with the art style
@@Jordan3DS I think Sugiyama's standard boss themes are generally solid (I'll even stick up for VII's and IX's), and like you said, his standard battle themes are always great. I think Sugiyama knows how to make a good battle theme, it's just that about half the time he decides to go in a different direction with his final boss themes that make them an acquired taste at best. III, VI, VIII, IX, and X all have good to great final boss themes IMO (haven't listened to XI's yet).
Okay, so I'm not crazy!
DQXI on the Switch is my first DQ game, and I was confused as to why people were complaining so much about the music.
Then I changed the music to "synthesized" out of curiosity.
I couldn't last two minutes.
It can't be overstated how much the orchestrated soundtrack adds to the experience (and emotion) of DQXI.
I actually turned down the music because the default had it so loud that when I'd turn my speaker volume down, it would drown out the dialogue. Because of that, I barely noticed the game had music, ha!
You missed the whole glory of this series 😢
@@libyangamer3698 Nope. He missed the same garbage 5 tracks over and over
DQ purists would only play it by reading the dialogue with sound effect
Hey
electronic musician/sound design nerd here
I dont want to he that guy but youre using the word midi wrong.
midi is a form of data or a language developed a long time ago for musical intruments.
it is not a "sample" there is no such thing as a "midi sample"
instead midi is the data that is being used to trigger a sample of audio. or it is used to do other things as well such as turn volume up or down or add effects...think of it as a virtual pair of hands turning knobs and playing keys. This is the reasom 8 bit sounds the way it does. midi information is controlling the systems soundcard telling it to produce basic waveshapes. ie saw, pulse, triangle, sine(classic video game sounds)...Also you can make orchestrations with samples that are just as good as acoustic recordings from the real thing but it takes a lot of effort in automating things properly...I dont think the fact that he used samples made it bad but that he was lazy and clearly did not understand how to properly automate things in his daw or whatever method he used.
Oh hey, I wasnt the only one to protest this inaccuracy and general misunderstanding of how midi works
thats why i dislike the video, the girl in this chanel is not that good
You should see Sid Stereo Player for the Commodore 64 here on youtube Type it up!
Well put. I used to sit with Pro Tracker (?) on my Amiga and an Alesis synthesizer. Had an external midi interface for the computer. Damn I was so bad at music. Sorry for the nostalgia rant.
@@lobstrosity7163 that's awesome don't be sorry haha
NES didn't use midi... It used tracker programs and a dedicated APU. If you were to try and make genuine 8bit music, for example, the last thing you would do is use midi. Old PC games started using midi format which is why soundcards were a big deal back in the day. Try out an old arrangement program (they should have a free version) which actually uses midi called "tabit" and you'll see what I mean. Also, DQXI doesn't use midi either. You said it yourself when you mentioned "poor quality samples". Midi format uses built-in soundcard hardware to play arrangements and doesn't actually include any audio. Think of MIDI more as instructions for what the soundcard will play. DQXI uses prerecorded audio. I think what you're trying to say is that they used digital instruments rather than live orchestra audio. There was likely another reason they decided to use the digital arrangements, I guess you'd have to ask them. All that said... I really don't think the quality is so bad.
I agree, well said.
Thank you. This video was triggering the crap out of me.
Although I agree with 99.9 % of what you said, I think in the end we should not dismiss how much copyright laws (especially in the entertainment industry, and in-between Japanese people) are enforced by the Japanese themselves. I remember how I was strangely fascinated by all the JASRAC-catalog-reference found in footnotes of manga pages when the characters where singing or even simply humming a song.
I knew she doesn't know what she's talking about.... you could hear it in her voice.
If you're composing using digital instruments or samples in the last 20 years, I'd be really surprised if MIDI standard was not involved. Typically that's the interface for triggering virtual instruments and samples.
To add insult to injury, Most if not all of the songs for smash use the Midi versions
All of them
At least they're more than two songs, even if none are remixes, which i assume is a square thing as well
All 8 of the soundtracks are Midi. But hey it's more than two.
And even the JP players are stuck with MIDIs.
that's quite sad, i was wondering about why those trailer orquest version never got in the game, maybe is just him the main problem i guess
Dont tell the composer that Sylvando exists. He might quit lol
He's dead now, so
Maybe he finally found out about Sylvando and that's what did him in? :P
Ayoooooo
I don't get it... What is the composer like?
Well he did quit be he didn't just quit music.
Now only Horii is left of the OG team. When Sugiyama passed away I was ... well, to put it bluntly, I was optimistic about the musical future of DQ. In recent games, his compositions had been rather uninspired, vaguely fantasy-themed noodling. Losing Toriyama hurts infinitely more. I hope Bird Studio will continue to carry his torch because there's no DQ without the Toriyama art style.
Its creepy how this video showed up in my recommends. I 've not looked up , referenced, or searched for anything Dragonquest related as far as I can remember. However, I was having this same conversation with my wife who just bought me the game! While I totally agree the music in this game is lacking (annoyingly so) its kinda scary this video was on my front page. Is the PC listening to me? LEARNING!?
Your phone is definitely listening to you. And if you share same email on all your devices, them they are all in sync... listening..trying to sell you something.
@@AntBeastin1991 It might not be inconceivable that the PC is as well, if you have either a laptop with a built-in mic or any other kind of external mic (headset, recording mic, webcam mic, etc.), also due to email and other things.
I remember that one day a friend ask me through Messenger what kind of character I wanted printed on a shirt she was going to give me and I started asking her to send me pictures of the shirt with "Metroid" and She did, after we stopped messaging facebook started suggesting links where to buy shirts
Grace is psychic and made this video for you. UwU
I can think of something and if my phone is in the same room, while I am not talking to anyone, and yet my phone will show me things related to what I thought mere minutes ago.... it is scary.
I come from the future and I have some bad news.
Sugiyama pulled the same shit with Dragon Quest’s music in Smash Bros 😡
All tracks are MIDIs and there aren't even new remixes, which is a real shame because we already seen they somehow turned Beneath The Mask into an absolute banger
@@speedm222 Yeah the remix of Beneath the Mask is now my second favorite Persona song (First being Life Will Change)
speedm222 excuse me but it was already fantastic before
@@polocatfan This has nothing to do with Sakurai, this is about the composer of the DQ series being uptight about his music
@@polocatfan Well when you're dealing with Sugiyama, who is very against others using his music, its not like he had a choice. He didn't even allow the normal DQ 11 to have the orchestrated version of the soundtrack, he tried selling that on his own. So with someone like that, I really doubt Sakurai had a choice
Funny, coming back to this video and learning about his death. I don’t have any respect for Sugiyama at all after watching this video, but he created some of the most iconic music of all time. That I’ll remember about his legacy at least.
I wonder how Dragon Quest are going to do without Sugiyama's music now? Square Enix doesn't have ownership to them and there's currently no one to replace him.
They deserve to be rewritten to really match the world better & be done by a better composer that helps fit the theme of those titles.
I mean, they could chose Yoko Shimomura to replace his work aside from remixes and the main theme.
Then take off the soylatte squited glasses, and look up the truth, look up one of my recent posts and i have disproven the lies, unless derek alexander wants to delete my comment.
“Iconic” might be a strong word to describe songs that, tbh, really don’t match up well compared to his contemporaries.
@@cartooncritic7045 dragon quest main theme was definitely iconic enough to be played in the introduction parades of the olympics..that said, yes sugiyama is a shitty person that i will not shed a tear for
Agreed. We should try and discuss which composer would better off replacing him altogether.
After all, music is key for any game, provided its not out-sourced.
Even with the full orchestration of the Switch version there’s WAY too few songs. Why does a basic Zelda or Mario game have so many more tracks than Dragon Quest? Almost every town and every open area (including at night) has the same music.
I get your point but Breath of the Wild has like ten songs and half of them is just some intern furiously banging away on a piano. Probably my main gripe with that game. Nintendo pls.
@@lobstrosity7163 I don't think you have ever played BOTW, but if you have, you're probably not a big fan of the Zelda series..
@@jeremy8473 Believe me, I've been a fan since the '80s. BotW has very little music in comparison to the previous fans. Perhaps because there are no real dungeons.
@@lobstrosity7163 Is it because Zelda uses music from previous games, unlike Dragon Quest which has different music for Battles, towns, and overworld every game?
Jesus, it seems that this is the first time that he played a Dragon Quest ... Now he comes to talk about the soundtrack after decades ...
Sooo we’re prob getting 2 DQ tracks for Smash huh?
EDIT: We got 8....but MIDI...
Luckily the Switch version of DQ11 has the orchestrated versions, so you shouldn't worry too much about it since something might have happened
Hey, honestly I’ve got a gut feeling that Sakurai pulled some strings, plus they promised remixes. So I wouldn’t be too worried (I’m just hoping that they add more ffvii and possibly Mario rpg music too when hero releases)
Trust me here, I don't think Sakurai is gonna let another Midgar situation happen in ultimate....
Other than Midgar itself
@Emmanuel Brijandez oh god, the MIDI's? Even for 11?
Yeah... It seems to be all Midis......
5:32 wow wow wow... put on the brakes there.
First, the Famicom/NES did not use something as advanced as midi nor were the music scored using midi. The music was written with a simple proprietary assembly program (kinda like a tracker program) using only 4 channels.
Second, think of midi as digital sheet music. What program or hardware one uses to interpret the notes and stuff will single handily define how the sheet music sounds be it a Roland sound canvas or Reason by propellarhead
Exactly. It bothers me when people use the terms "MIDI" and "synthesized music" interchangeably.
Thank you, I hope channel notes this on the thread or on the next review.
I don't get it, I was expecting some atrocious pieces of music, but when you played them I only thought, "this really isn't that bad, I still kinda like it". Obviously it's subjective, you can dislike the midi version of the soundtrack, that's fair. However, it was just such an overreaction to something that I felt _really_ didn't need it- be it played up for the sake of the video or otherwise, it just felt unnecessary. It's not that bad, I get that the horns may be relatively low in quality, but it comes across as rather snobbish from the video. It came across as a, "this soundtrack fucking sucks, it's _so_ bad, you must be brain-dead to enjoy it", kinda reaction, of course exaggerated- more than it already was anyways.
And yes, I get that it's all about Sugiyama and how he's the reason behind all of this, and I agree that he's a jackass. But over-exaggerating how bad the music is _purely_ because the samples aren't the best- almost as though it's torture to listen to- just irks me, again kinda sounds like, "We're forced to sit through horrendously shitty music and who's fault is it? HIS, it's *_HIS_* fault- if it weren't for him, we'd have _amazing_ music". It's not wrong to say any of this, because it's true that he's keeping us from just _having_ the orchestrated soundtrack, but the way that it's said (while not as exaggerated as I made it sound) was just too extreme to sound reasonable. Though the Switch is getting the Orchestrated soundtrack without having to resort to mods which is nice.
Basically, the difference isn't _that_ big, but I guess that it's just used to make a point. Then again, you can sound reasonable _while _*_also_* giving the same points.
I dunno, if you ever grew up with Dragon Quest XII, and have fond memories of that game, you also would have been massively disappointed when it wasn't orchestrated. What poured even more salt on the wound was the fact that it was created, but simply wasn't put on the disc. That music sounds better when orchestrated.
@@cartereckblad DQ 12?
@@frankwest6984 Oh goodness, sorry I mean VIII. 8 that is. My bad!
@@cartereckblad Oh ok! I wasn't sure if you meant VII and I was a bit confused because it was originally synthesized. Thanks for clarifying and sorry if I sounded smart-assy, I was half asleep lol.
@@cartereckblad VIII was only orchestrated in the western version, where they literally ripped it all from the Symphonic Suite CD. Thus, it sounds terrible in game, but great when listening to it from the actual CD itself. Arrangements are nice, but they rarely fit being played in the games themselves, especially in this case when every Symphonic Suite song has a terrible echo due to the means of recording.
I'm not a pro, but I have enough knowledge about music production to say: It's pretty good. But it cannot compete. The used samples don't sound like real instruments, but i feel like that was a deliberate decision to give it this sweet sweet nostalgic 80s/90s vibe. The quality itself is fine. But damn. It's way too repetitive.
Just1Pho yeah... nothing can be good when it’s been playing for hours, drives me insane
I don’t think using outdated midi instruments with modern graphics is a good mix. If you wanna make the game look like an 80s-90s game then its ok.
Everyone overlooks the fact that Sugiyama is old school Yakuza.
@Kainos Teleos Never said it was.
@Shaman Xeed Exactly what I said.
@Shaman Xeed Exactly what I said. One more round?
@Shaman Xeed Get a hobby dipshit.
Is he a templar?
13:25 "Okay, I just don't understand"
Not sure what you don't understand tbh. The synthesized version has more present percussion, more audible bass, and the instruments are mixed to be in the front of the track as opposed to the orchestral version which is more spacial and has a heavy emphasis on reverb. Some of us grew up with 8-bit and 16-bit systems and have a fondness more classic video game aesthetics, and some prefer a live symphony. It's really not that deep.
The answer is at 14:22 and ends at 14:48
Thanks mate
The Legend of Kusakari music at the end legit scared and confused my cat. She hurriedly left the room to get away from it. Lol
Funny how half the comments are from 2 years ago and the other half from 2 weeks ago
5:13 they... Didn't use MIDI. MIDI is a specific standard, that game consoles were not compatible with.
Sure, they only stored the notes, but they weren't midi.
I think the analysis here is way off base.
I think the biggest problem with the soundtrack is the context in which most of the music gets played, and the tempo and theming of the music, rather than using MIDI based instruments.
For example, when wandering around the second world, you quickly realize that it's the same field music as the first. The tempo is fast, the loops short and repetitive. This music doesn't really FIT walking around a large serene field speckled with small monsters, but more fits the theme of an animated show, or at best walking around an overworld in 4 directions.. but not because of the samples used.
What's worse is you wander around for a while to grind, an absolute requirement of the game in order to beat the bosses, and then night falls. The screen fades to black, and back up to a night palette with - the exact same music.
You can have Midi based music sound fantastic, and the samples aren't bad in DQXI.
The music was written without tempo changes or key shifts in mind. It was written to emulate the style and approach of much older games, and even when played by a full orchestra still sounds out of date and stiff. Then take Nobuo Uematsu, whom instead of writing video game music, wrote music that was then adapted for video games. You listen to Metamorphasis, Dancing Mad, The Red Wings, and Inside the Giant, and much more was taken into consideration from the very conception of those musical scores. The music isn't simply meant to be a theme, but rather is meant to carry emotion and almost tell a story itself. The lone trumpet blaring over strings played to a marching time signature with military drumming burried beneath it all helps bring us to understand Cecil's uncertainty and hesitation at the beginning of Final Fantasy 4, while also being a fitting final march on the moon to both remind us of where we started and that we must press on for this final confrontation. And that's not even a tune widely regarded as a masterpiece of the series.
Then you go to DQ XI. The music is written to be.... serviceable. Themes for what you should be doing as a gameplay mechanic at the time. Walk, fight, walk, fight, talk and shop, walk, fight. The music adds nothing to the environments, leaving everything with a bland, plain yogurt taste to it. There are seemingly also far fewer tracks in total, so there's a lot of repeating music in terms of quantity of tracks, which only highlights the general short length of tracks before you start the same song over.
But then, what they clearly wanted to create with DQ XI is an NES JRPG experience with prettier models and old game design logic. To that end, they succeeded. The success of the music overall, however, leaves much to be desired without even considering what samples were used.
It's entirely possible to use electronic sounds, even when not doing "techno" music, and have them both be nostalgic and pleasant to hear. Shit, look at what the Amiga demoscene has done with that system. Here's some examples.
ua-cam.com/video/O_GSzuxGUvQ/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/Zbp3o5ioraU/v-deo.html (actual Amiga music starts at 0:08)
And an example from a game, the absolutely BEAUTIFUL main theme to Agony (not that one).
ua-cam.com/video/X9UTnUcyED0/v-deo.html
I think the point you make is actually pretty good, that DQ XI's music is mostly just... THERE. However, I'm not sure I agree that they succeeded in the NES feel. Some of those old games had BEAUTIFUL music, especially Dragon Warrior III and IV. This sounds rote by comparison.
Here after Koichi Sugiyama passed away from septic shock. Here’s hoping Hayato Matsuo does his music legacy justice. Somehow, I think he will.
Why does this video have so many dislikes? Is it because it calls DQ11's music bad? Is it because it calls Sugiyama a bad person and that's like, insulting DQ as a series in some way?
Or is there misinformation in here I"m not aware of. All in all it seems like a well put together video with decent information.
Actually just got to the part where you forced me to listen to Yoshi's New Island music so that's definitely worth hating. Reeeee
I'm not a fan of the way all sequenced music is referred to as "MIDI" in the video, but I don't think 4000 people are mad about it.
I was on board with this video until the "Yikes" chapter, because I can't get behind the idea that we should be scrutinizing a person's political views to determine whether their work is good or that we should be working with them as I think they leads to a fractious society and community. He can use his money in whatever stupid way he wants. This is especially annoying when you can make a perfectly strong case that its time to move on based on him insisting on lowering the quality of the product based on personal greed or based on the idea that his quality has gone down and so its time to move on. But instead it's gotta be about historical revisionism or sexual politics.
A lot of people were quick to defend Sugiyama. I get the impression that most of it was from non-DQ fans who got uncomfortable when the video got "political," since every actual DQ fan I've spoken to seems very frustrated with Sugiyama, to put it lightly.
@@2kano113 I think it's super valid to be frustrated with Sugiyama, because he's screwing over everyone who bought the PS4 version (including me) out of what seems to be simply greed. There are plenty of valid reasons to be mad at him as a result, and as such there's no need to go into his personal life.
@@valiantparagonvideos2383 Yeah, because his problematic political views are perfectly fine, since shitty personality traits from influential people with a worldwide audience have no bearing on anything whatsoever. Get out of here with this bullshit. If his "personal life" really didn't matter then the dislike would be lower. The only reason it's that high is because we have a lot of shit apologists like you crying foul anytime someone's called out for being a dick.
Sorry, EVERY time someone's called out for being a dick for racist, sexist, or homophobic reasons. No one's buying your bullshit rhetoric except other race apologists. Sugiyama can be a crappy creator AND human being. You're only mad because you care more about him fucking up the OST than him being a dick to an entire group of people for nationalistic and racist reasons.
WHY ARE YOU BOOING HER!? SHE'S RIGHT!
No she isn't, she's calling it bad because of his political views, lying on about art because of someone's personal beliefs is dumb.
@@googleisafuckingjoke6855 you're an idiot.
@@googleisafuckingjoke6855 It's no longer just "political views" or "personal beliefs" if they're A) blatantly wrong, and B) hurting people.
@@googleisafuckingjoke6855 There's a lot more to this video than just that but ok.
@@googleisafuckingjoke6855 But the OST is LITERALLY worse because of his political views.
If he did not have his views of ownership, which are very much political, we literally would've gotten the symphonic version on PS4 and PC.
They are specifically to blame.
God, speaking of the Resident Evil Dualshock Ver. Basement, the story of Mamoru Samuragochi, the deaf composer of RE Dualshock Ver. and Onimusha, who wasn't actually deaf, and Takashi Niigaki, the guy who actually wrote all his songs, is probably one of the most compelling video game composer histories.
Great video as always.
After how bad the Director’s Cut was, no one really questioned Samuragochi’s deafness until the truth came out, which is both sad and deeply hilarious.
The Dual Shock version of Resident Evil: Director's Cut actually has quite a few good tracks. Some that are even better than those in the original version such as the end credits music.
Buuuuuuut 99.9% of the people that ever criticize the Dual Shock version's soundtrack, they always specifically single out the basement track and never say a word about any of the other tracks on the OST.
that story has enough turns to be a video in and of itself
Nope. Nothing beats the butt rock ending theme in the original release of RE. It's one of the legitimate reasons I still play that game.
The ending theme of the original was pretty bland and boring. The only thing memorable are the gameplay snippets that play throughout. The Dual Shock version's ending thing sounds like you just finished a grand adventure.
Geez I agree that music are subpar but the amount of people that misunderstood what "Midi" mean in this comment sections are staggering. In an essence, midi is just digital music notes. It’s use to trigger samples. That’s it. There are no "Midi Sound" because it doesn’t have a sound in itself. Saying you hate Midi because its sound quality is bad doesn’t make any sense. It’s like saying that you hate using sheets in an orchestra performance because it sounds bad. See, does that make any sense?
The things that’s bad here is the samples that Sugiyama is using. It’s just pure low-quality garbage.
MIDI definitely has a sound. All general MIDI sets sound similar.
@@BigSnipp No, that is the sound of the General MIDI itself. GM is the standardized soundbank for MIDI. The “MIDI” doesn’t contain any sound. It only carried information for the sounds. Think of it as vector vs raster files. MIDI is like what vector is.
@@JayChokdee I've been producing since the 90s. This is down right insulting.
@@BigSnipp It doesn’t matter how long you’ve been producing. If you can’t distinguish between “MIDI” and “General MIDI” then you’ve misunderstood the term. That’s it. If you still gonna said that MIDI has a sound then try plugging your MIDI controllers directly into speaker (if you can even do it, no MIDI controllers have audio I/O port for a reason) and see if it makes any.
@@JayChokdee General MIDI has that classic, cheesy 80s synth tone to it. I know what MIDI is.
I really don't get the love for Sugiyama's work. As a classical musician myself I don't find his work to be anything special. Some of it is pretty bad even. There are way more talented composers who need more recognition imo.
True. To my mind, the series' music took a nosedive after DQVIII. The music was always simplisticly old-fashioned, bordering on corny, but it had some stand-out pieces. Considering it was originally written for an 8-bit system with only five sound channels, and the series' slavish devotion to its own tradition may, in combination with the composer's inflexible mindset, explain why it never developed in more modern directions. Now that Sugiyama has passed away, I hope younger, more daring composers like Squareenix' own Yasunori Nishiki inherit his duties.
i kind of a agree with this..I find his music Iconic for sure, and his main theme can never be replaced but I don't think he was that particularly special..Im kind of excited who will be taking over..plenty of great talent out there
People are exaggerating a lot as usual. Same kind of people who say that "30 fps is unplayable". Dude, we had GoldenEye running at like 10 fps in 4 player split screen, and it was playable and we had fun. While I do agree orchestral is better, the synthesis isn't nearly as bad as people here make it out to be. The melodies and harmonies are still as great.
And Pokemon OST uses synthetic Orchestral instruments and I don't see anyone complain about that
You can use digital orchestras for a game, lots of them do and some even are indistinguishable from a real orchestra. The real problem is the quality of the instruments used and why they sound like that, glad this video explains this.
I knew we'd get the shit synthesized versions in Smash and it still hurts. We got Hero and a stage from DQXI in Ultimate, both which are made with such a passion and attention to detail that it really hurts to hear the awful AWFUL sound of some cheap synth orchestra, especially when juxtaposed to the rest of the SSBU soundtrack.
Some really really good examples of this are Konami's Yugioh Capsule Monsters Coliseum and the Falsebound kingdom
Just take a listen to Crimson Valley and Marya Denn
@@UliZombie04 Or the GC Zelda games. All Midi. But not Medli. Though both of those games do have Medleys in the anniversary soundtracks.
Big yikes from me. There's a reason the Nanjing Massacre is also very commonly referred to as "The Rape of Nanjing."
Huh? The music really doesn't bother me at all... Also, as many have already pointed out, this is very, very poorly researched.
lol those horns at the end yikes
Mostly terrible but I looooove Paladin's Quest's raspy saxophone/muted trumpet sample
(also the Legend of Kusakari track is obviously intended to be a joke)
RE Directors cut have really bad music. So... so bad....
Makes me laugh every time.
Literally the only examples of non-great music below standard quality in the whole video.
@@RoninCatholic they were most of an example of how horns can sound really bad in midi, not really claiming that it was bad music overall
19:06 This had me in tears, the editing just adds so much to this moment
Uemastu > Sugiyama
Hisaishi > Uematsu + Sugiyama
Personally, I have just two remarks about the video, but I did appreciate all the work that went into making it.
Firstly, it's probably because I was taught how to play the violin at a very early age, but it is "the strings" that do get my attention when I notice how artificial they sound, much more than "the horns" or "the brasses" (sorry if I explained it poorly, English isn't my first language).
Secondly, I really can't agree with the use of the acronym MIDI when it's not MIDI... I kinda understand why the name got generally associated with the primitive sound capabilities of early machines, and the compilation of music albums "@MIDI" comes to mind, but I'd rather talk about chiptunes (like for the 8-bits & 16-bits era), modules/sample tracks (for many of the "non-audio-CD" 32-bits era) and full-sound audio for Red Book CD and "monolithic" audio files which are not "interpreted-as-a-sheet-of-music" by the machine but rather played "as is". The games I remember playing with MIDI music were mostly Lucas Arts or Sierra games, but if I had Japanese computers in the '90s, I would have probably been all over the amazing compositions that some of my favourite composers did back then.
Thank you anyway for having brought the subjects that were in the video, and I am very saddened by learning how Japanese revisionists are still very active even now.
Wishing you a very good end of the year and a very great new one.
Nier Automata Soundtrack at the End ❤
omg those midi horn songs at the end of the vid took 3 years of my life away.
I hope Hayato Matsuo composes all the future Dragon Quest music now since Sugiyama passed away
We can hope that he takes the reigns and gives the world the orchestral versions this series deserves!!
That ridiculous kitchen horn-track from *Resident Evil - Director's Cut: Dual-Shock Analog Version - Greatest Hits version* is the epitome of dumpy game music. Also typing out that games proper title+version as seen in your video was more of an undertaking than I thought it was going to be.
For the record, they re-released the Switch version of DQ11 for PS4 with the orchestral soundtrack.
You know who always used nice horns, even for midi quality? Motoi Sakuraba!
Sakuraba is an underrated composer IMO. That man knows how to make a great battle theme.
@@starone1 Who's Sakuraba?
FF4’s “To The Moon” will always be known as Ballad of the Butts in my mind because of its horn section.
I'm happy that Dragon Quest XI S is going to have an option for the orchestral soundtrack. I love his music, but I'm just disappointed in the kind of person that Sugiyama is.
Problem isn't Midi, problem is sub-par music. Compare Skyward Sword's music with Twilight Princess's.
0:58 I literally see no problem with this theme. It sounds alright.
My problem with the music is not the "quality" of it (because the average person does not give a shit about that), it's that the game uses them so many times with little to no variety.
Dragon quest 11 for the switch: now you don’t have to listen to our music, now you can listen to music from early 2000s
I don't think anyone inherently hates MIDI. But I do think Sugiyama has given the MIDI style of music a bad name.
Orchestral and Symphonic is a nice change of pace, that sells the "Grand" part of Grand Adventure and it's definitely better and preferred with console releases.
I'd also like to mention two other composers who worked on the series and that I'd very much like returning: Kaoru Wada, who made the soundtrack for the Emblem of Roto prequel, and Manami Matsumae, who worked on Dragon Quest Swords and whose tunes were great as well and fitting for the series.
Dragon Quest swords has a very solid soundtrack for such a short game!
I actually really like the sound of the "bad" horn samples at the end! It was fun and strange
One of them, The Legend of Kusakari, is intentionally bad.
@@NopeNaw I guessed that from the whole "Zelda parody" thing the art clearly represents.
I've never been so glad to be a Uematsu fan
We are free with finally free to hear what Dragon Quest music with actually sound like
A quote I heard on a video analizing Dancing mad; something along the lines of: "It's like if dude painted the sistine chapel.. with crayola crayons"
did it get demonetized?
Shesez You working on a DQ video?
Hopefully , this video sux
@pancracio i wish i was
Shesez yeah man do DQVIII !
i kinda hope it did tbh
Playing through dragon quest 11 (my first and so far only dragon quest game) I really didn't enjoy the music, the only song I actually enjoyed was the main theme, but having the same 5 tracks play for over 80 hours was just so insufferable. I probably wouldn't have dislike the soundtrack if there was a more unique songs, but what we got I was not a fan of at all.
I like MIDI music because in the Philippines, our TV shows and movies always have obviously MIDI music, and I grew up with retro games.
Also, ‘80s synths sound really great.
There are movies with synth soundtracks like John Carpenter’s films and Castle in the Sky (in the Japanese version, the American dub has a newer orchestral soundtrack).
Plus, ‘80s pop music still slaps.
Nobody cares what you like or what you grew up with. You're used to something terrible so it's not as terrible to you. Want a cookie? A farm still stinks even if you are used to the smell
@@jalalal8056 MIDI can work well, just listen to the Rise of the Triad soundtrack.
DOOM, Duke Nukem 3D, etc…
I watched a public stream of someone playing this game and the chat was full of trumpet emojis.
I'm not happy that Sugiyama passed away, but he should have chosen his successor and retired a long time ago. He was too old to continue working at this point.
I was glad when he died, fuck homophobes and war crimes deniers.
No one:
Kusakari horn player: okay how do I sound like a fusion musician in this fantasy song while playing every note at once
I just hope that DQ 12's music will be actually "good" and most importantly "fitting". That's the issue i had so far that the music didn't really fit most scenes/environments.
You want something epic, something chill, something sad etc.. it's as if i heard the same 2-3 tracks 90% of the time in the game which made me lower the music to 1 or even turn it off completely at some points as it got irritating.
For as much the music is good. It literally is the same ones the whole game!
I didn't like the battle music and even less so for the Midi version.
DQ is good but man, it desperately needs more music.
old commnet but your issue of the music not fitting maybe because a good chunk of tracks in 11 are actually re-used from older games and they don't hit as hard as they were in the respective games
The battle theme was so awful I held off for a year before finally buying it. It's now one of my favorite games now but yeah the music is not Final Fantasy good.
Well some of it is good but to be honest some of 11s best themes are from other DQ games
okay, no sugarcoating, I'm not shedding in any tears for his death...He made amazing soundtracks, but he kept the orchaestated stuff hostage for midi..he had shitty beliefs and polical outlooks I dont agree with..Ill celebrate his music, but I won't mourn his death..Im now just wondering, who will take over and start making new tracks too
I read on Twitter that Sugiyama gave the West bad versions of his music because he was prejudiced towards western people. Did he hate America?
@@AlternisLiz he did criticize the usa for demanding an apology for Japan's use of comfort woman or sexual slaves during WWII. Also, he is a Nanjing massacre denialist, but I'm not sure if any of this is the reason he kept the rights to the orchestrated versions..
@@UNSTABLE111 wow, I didn't know that he was a Japanese history revisionist. That's a yikes
Edit: oh, the video mentioned it
I liked the “decent person award” for matsuo
OMG that decent person award part! Best part of the video
You can also tell midi by the flute and strings. I find it more stand out than the horns.
Also, I actually like the faster tempo and steady drumbeat of DQXI’s midi battle theme compared to the orchestral one.
Oh. This is new.
This is my first dragon quest game and, while I love the game itself, my friends keep hearing me complain about the music anyway.
You should pick up the switch version
@@lylatfox4 Why?
@@owlflame it has the orchestrated soundtrack plus a ton of new stuff
The music wasn't bad... At least not to be titled a bad version of the music. Throughout the game, the music as it was. still hit the strings right emotionally.
It depends what you mean with 'music'. If you mean the composition, then yes it is good music. But the arrangement in the game is horrible. The quality simply does not cut it. Sure, you may like the tunes, but that does not excuse this
I just never felt there were times where it was off putting. I can understand the orchestrated versions were better in their own right. They are. But the intentions to resemble dragon quest 3 in their classic form just hit me. It's just an opinion. I don't like the composer and if it's because he was starting to get lazy, then the whole experience throughout the game as it is. Sorta gets tainted and that is probably more disappointing considering dragon quest 11 deserves more than that since this was made with so much love outside of that crap. What sucks even more is that Dragon quest 11 S for switch is everything original dragon quest isn't. With the orchrestrated music, monster taming, classic mode, added story elements just a whole expansion and other consoles won't get this.
Most early consoles, like the NES/Famicom, did not actually use MIDI technology per se, although they did use custom sequenced formats that worked on the same concept.
Not MIDI, but also basically MIDI.
??? But at the beginning sound programmers had to write in Hex values the music step by step. So, no. Nothing like "basically MIDI".
+John Rambo.
"In middle ages, armies used tanks to besiege castles"
-Siege towers arent tanks, tho.
-huhh ifya wane go technikel abeut it...
No. Nes didnt used midi. She could simply said "Similar to midi". There's no such thing as midi instruments, etc. Don't be a fanboy, those facts in the video were plain wrong
As I said in another comment: its "ridicously technical" as calling an hdmi *cable* "digital picture"
@@okarowarrior yes, I get that. She could have phrased it much better. No such thing as MIDI instruments. She was confused on what MIDI was, it seems.
After all these years, I never realized that commercial with the guy showing up to his date in a poncho was for a Dragon Quest game.
Sometimes the sequenced version can sound really, really awesome, but only when more instrumental variety is used. Compare Dragon Quest VII's battle theme, Fighting Spirit, between the original PlayStation version (sequenced), the Japanese 3DS version (Symphonic), and the western 3DS version (new sequence). The Symphonic version sounds great, of course, and the pre-recorded sequence in the 3DS version of the game does a rather poor job trying to emulate it. But listen to the PlayStation version - it's also sequenced, but on top of it's horns and strings, it's packed with other sounds to fill it out. Honestly, I prefer it over the symphonic versions.
Dragon Warrior VII's PS1 soundtrack is a work of art, and in many cases it conveys emotions much more effectively than it's Symphonic Suite or other variants.
Dude Same!
I love Dragon Warrior VII and it’s soundtrack, especially the boss theme.
@@manofthehalfhour571 World of the Strong is one of the best boss themes in any game of any genre.
Erdrick The Hero This is the absolute truth.
Are we in the Hayato Matsuo age yet?
Honestly, my problem with the music in DQ11, is the quality of the music in general, you could make it fully orchestrated and it still sounds pretty terrible for 80% of the games scenarios. The other issue is how many godamn tracks there are, theres little to none!
Oh bot, yes. They just reuse the same track for every sad moment instead of writing new stuff.
That's my problem too. The music in the orchestral versions of the DQ11 themes, especially for combat music, is repetitive and not very good. It relies far too heavily on trumpet blasts and uses super simple melody lines that just loop over and over and over until I want to kill myself.
@@danielsilva9502 I think people are just unfamiliar with Dragon Quest, as that's how it's always been. The bigger issue is how many songs are recycled from previous games.
@Eggchin only in wild area you cn change to dqVIII music but other than that no
@@danielsilva9502 like, SPOILERS
Veronica's death definitely deserved it's own song, even if that was the only instance when it played.
I really hope Yuki Hayashi takes over as the composer, his work in Adventures of Dai is amazing
Apparently the Switch version fixed the soundtrack, so that's good
Thanks for continuing to spread that the lie that the NES used MIDI. I'm a big fan of the channel, but please do that quick bit of research first. It's a misconception that seems to have gotten more common recently.
Why do they keep employing him? If I hired a composer that said he purposely makes his music shittier to make money on the side, I'd find another composer who'd do his best to make my game great. Then he does stuff like that which makes Square Enix looks like crap for hiring a horrible person, risking their sales and they still use him? Why?
Japan has a reoccurring culture of never changing ways. Sugiyama is synonymous with the franchise. Taking him away is like if FF took Uematsu off the list. No one really will really like the change (is what they think)
Playing with no music make's the game more interesting and creates another ambience. ITS BETTER
Dark souls vibe