This Dune adaptation was AWESOME. However, the 4 - 6hrs version that Jason Momoa mentioned, needs to be released, either on streaming, DVD, or as a re-release in the theaters.
Indeed. It would truly be a disservice to the audience not to release the large amount of footage ignored in the theatrical release. There is at least another 40 minutes of footage removed before it went to theaters and the actors have made clear there is even more than that filmed. Not sure why they wouldn't release it.
I am surprised nobody noticed that or mentioned that but Liet Kyne called the sandworm to ride on it. It just happens that she get killed before she managed to do so. A lot of people seems to think that she called the worm to kill the Sardaukar.
That was her original intention, but after she was stabbed she continued to create a rhythm that called the worm closer. Death was inevitable for her so she used the worm to avenge herself and give them all a terrifying end.
As someone who has never read the books nor watched any of the previous films, I was so excited when the hooks came out only to be crushed when she got killed.
Kynes actually gets blown up in the novel by a pre-spice mass explosion. He had been left to die in the desert, but hunger and thirst were not what ultimately killed him. Herbert was using his death scene in the novel to help in his world-building by dramatically illustrating part of how the worms are connected to the spice.
Exactly, and that's why it makes totally sense that Denis altered his death in the movie, otherwise the whole spice/worm connection would have been given away too soon
True, but movie Kynes's death is a pretty honorable one as well. I was kind of disappointed that the movie didn't point out that Chani was Kynes's daughter.
@@rhaenyralikesyoutube6289 We might well get all these plot threads served to us in part two. I feel like a lot of people are expecting Villeneuve to simply skip a lot of Paul's development in the desert, but I have a sneaking suspicion that 1/3 if not more of the movie will be spent on Paul becoming a Fremen (and Rebecca's pregnancy).
I would love if, after the story concludes, there's a director's cut with a longer runtime and with more of those plot points that are glossed over in the film
Mistake regarding Liet Kynes. In the appendix in the book, it was actually Liet's father, Pardot Kynes, who was the offworlder - a Planetologist who stumbled on a young Stilgar and two other Fremen being attacked by Harkonnen soldiers and he saved their lives. Pardot survived the Fremen's reluctant decision to kill him for seeing their secrets, when the ritual assassin, Uliet, threw himself on his own knife after Pardot, giving a lecture about a paradise Arrakis to bewildered Fremen, told him to "Remove yourself". When Pardot, who had become an Umma (prophet) in the eyes of the Fremen, was killed in a Cave-in, his son Liet (later father of Chani), born to Stilgar's Sister who Pardot married, was already a Sandrider at 19 and a warrior who had killed 50 Harkonnen's. Liet takes over his father's dream of a paradise Arrakis, which has become the dream and long term plan of the Fremen. Then they are cursed by the arrival of a Messiah....
@göksu gün alioğlu I think some things may be simplified as it is a lot to add, too many charackters. Well, some intimacy between Usul and Chani will be there for sure. DV plans to make trilogy out of Dune so certain things will be simplified to fit run time.
I felt like the scene where Jessica is given the Crysknife and the prescious nature of the blade is explained. I felt like they brushed over the significance of pulling the knife out of its sheath.
By not including the part where Jessica reminds Mapes that the blade must not be re-sheathed without having been bloodied, a viewer who is unfamiliar with the books will be left wondering why the Fremen all cut their wrists towards the end.
Kynes Death in the book serves as a teaser for the spice cycle and the ecology of Dune. He also realizes in his final moments the full consequence of introducing Paul to his Fremen. He halucinates of his fathers lessons in ecology and starts to see the entire world through that lense. In that moment, he realizes the beginning stages of the ecological cascade that is set in motion on Arrakis and the Imperium. It's a big OhShitMoment. The chapter directly showcases the books ecological perspective and makes the direct connection to the wider plot/world. Politics, Culure, Power, Economy, all that is framed through an ecological lense. As Ecosystems of complex interactions, temporary balances and effect cascades resonating throughout the whole system. And this illustrates a big theme of Dune. Ecosystems being in and always seeking a stationary balance is a popular misconception. Ecosystems flow constantly. Even ecological balances can only persist as dynamically flowing processes. Life is everchanging, life needs change. Only dead things don't change. And it's also about biodiversity and biological redundancy, or more specifically, the catastrophic effect of a lack thereof. Frank Herbert applies this to politics, culture and society in general. He criticizes peoples conception of the present status quo as a bedrock, not as the momentary snapshot of an everchanging and flowing process. He criticizes the drive to cement and preserve the present state as the alpha and the omega. He encourages to apply an ecosystematic perspective on Society. To acknowledge the vast network of interactive relationships, interconnectivity and interdependency of everything in it. He warns that change is the way of all life and stopping it is a dangerous illusion. If you try to stop life from flowing, you will only provoke a cascadic reaction down the line. Muad'dibs Jihad is such a cascade. Thats why Paul is unable to stop it.
@@tangobang2642 I use it in the same way in all 3 paragraphs. A wave of effects rolling through (and often building up in the process) a complex and interconnected system of relationships. Like a chinese milkpowder scandal rising the price for butter here in Germany a year later. (true story) And i use it, because it's one of the core concepts of my comment.
Nice write up!!! I totally understand what you are saying, and I agree wholeheartedly. I've always understood that we humans have a very limited perspective, and that all things and perspectives are relative. That's what makes this a modern classic.
Actually, dead things do change, thanks to entropy. They don't get any less dead, but they are still part of the eventual breakdown of the universe, all those trillions of years in the future. Otherwise, it's a pleasure to read a post that shows an excellent understanding of part of what Frank Herbert was getting at.
If he does Messiah I think it has potential to be his best film. It’s right up his alley with the darkness and uncertainty of the plot plus so much potential visual storytelling.
One of the most interesting things about the book Barron is that he isn't sadistic and even admonishes Piter for enjoying violence. It emphasizes that what makes him evil is that he is ruled entirely by his appetites, which is juxtaposed in the book with the scene where the reverend mother explaining that the gom Jabbar test was to see if Paul was able to control his animal instincts. This theme is unfortunately missed in the film.
You missed something. Kynes "applied a thumper to the sand and summoned a sandworm" because she was planning to ride it to safety. Not lay a trap for the sardaukar. She even had the grappling hooks out
As a rabid Dune fan I'm pleasantly surprised with this interpretation. Although it's wild and inaccurate, I love Lynch's version to death, however, this one is darker and somewhat more loyal to the text. During the past 2 months I read all 6 novels again for preparation again - what a throwback in my highscholl days! Dune fucking rocks. Villeneuve did a god job here, can't wait to see the sequel.
I can't pinpoint differences between book and movie as I read it so long ago. But between Lynch's version and this, I do miss Jessica's suspicions of Dr Yeuh but feels reassured looking at his 'forehead mark'. Then too the Bene Gesserit's centuries plans of manipulating bloodlines to their own gain. What I find I miss most is 'seeing' the Navigators 'folding' space in order to move between planets. It brings home just how import the 'spice' truly is.
@@shanehall8447 No space folding in this movie. Villeneuve went for a "wormhole" approach to space travel. Did you notice that the heighliner looks like the sand worm.
@Aden Diaz to show something interesting and crucial in that universe. I like that in Lynch’s movie. I also missed there is a mention of an Emperor but we don’t see any of that.
I guess something readers love but myself it is a difficulty of reading… it takes a longer time to tell the same story and even longer if the book takes “time” to explain many details, as in a book any detail has to be explained otherwise we can’t see it 🤣
In the book, the Sardaukar were disguised as Harkonnen soldiers to hide the Emperor’s involvement. The movie’s pacing probably would have suffered if exposition was needed for such scenes but I always thought that the disguise was kinda cool. Instead, we see very different uniforms for each side in the battle.
It's a great film that has so much right, but Arrakeen felt like a ghost town and I missed the banquet scene. It was as if everyone else left with the Harkonnens. Also the plots and schemes of the Baron to paint Jessica in a bad light, Thufir got a raw deal too but Yueh was the worst bit, no foreshadowing and creeping dread. I hardly knew who he was. Which was a shame cos Leto tooth scene was great.
I just read the book again and to me Arakeen wasn't that lively in the book to begin with. The Party starts out there in the desert with the Fremen and their 'ways'.
My question on this, that has popped into my head each time I’ve seen the movie, is why they set off a thumper? I mean Paul was already on rock, I mean sure he was within reach of the worm, but that’s where he stopped to watch the work, he could easily and rapidly moved back and bit and been far enough from the sand that he couldn’t be splatted against the rock, right? Or am I missing something? I haven’t read the book yet, but from the movie, that just struck me as strange, as Jamis acts like Paul and Jessica weren’t to the rocks yet, and only his thumper saved them.
I think as the book readers we'd agree that the details cut in the film could be key to truly highlighting the primary plot. The movie blew me away and I simply have no patience when it comes to Part 2
@@scotlandtheinsane3359 Read the book.... It's pretty much like in the movie except for the suk imperial conditioning, not mentioned in the movie. He explains in the movie that the harkonnen have is wife
I think we may have passed that point but you may be on to something If so, it’ll have to happen within the first 20 minutes of Paul’s narrative in Dune 2
Agreed. If I remember correctly, in the book duel happened on their stop on the journey back to the sietch Tabr, not immediatly after the meeting. Jamis was bitter for the whole day (night?) of their journey and he was pondering his supposed humilation of being defeated by an offworlder teenager. He invokes the amtal after they stop in cave post to rest. Body processing and funeral are done there (they have equipment in the cave I think). In new movie they pack the body and take it with them.
One thing that's been bugging me that no one seems to mention: Jessica's motivation change for birthing Paul. In Dennis' movie, Rev. Mother Mohiam chastised Jessica on Caladan after the Gom Jabbar for birthing a male to the Duke, saying something along the lines of, "in your delusions of granduer you thought you could give birth to the kwizatch haddarach..." In the book, Jessica is clearly stated to have had Paul out of her love for the Duke and her desire to produce him a male hier, and has nothing to do with the Kwizatch Haddarach. This somewhat undercuts the later scene between Leto and Jessica in their bedroom. In the book, her love for Leto was enough for her to put the *entire* balance of the Imperium and Landstradt, indeed the entire universe, at risk, just to have a boy with a man she loved. (A plot line many ignore in the books as well, as it's often stated that Bene Gesserit "witches" would literally kill an unborn child in the womb using their extreme control of their bodies, if it seemed like said child would pose a threat to the order or its mission) Indeed, what did Leto do to break her Bene Gesserit indoctrination? Or was it just his moral philosophy that leadership by action lends to loyalty? This is a small change to the overall plot narrative of the movie, but a huge change (I believe) to the character of Jessica, whom in the book wouldn't have done such a thing as having a male child out of pride or belief that she'd have the chosen one.
I think that you interpret what Mohiam says to Jessica as Jessica's feeling here, to me it's more that the rev mother thinks Jessica did birth Paul out of pride, when Jessica throughout the movie shows more love to Paul than in the book. Having a vaguely bad memory of Jessica in the book, the movie made me see her in a completely different light and last time i read the book, i only saw the loving mother
also the fact that the movie left out the moment where paul unlocked his prescient in the stilltent with jessica. Where paul saw two paths on one where he see himself presenting as the grandson of the Baron and the other path that will make him thw leader of a jihad. The moment he chose the jihad path, he then can mourn his father
I wonder when even 'Foundation' and ' The Expanse' was made into TV Shows why they didn't make Dune into one. Imagine having at least 6 hours or more to translate this incredible story to film.
No space folding in this movie. Villeneuve went for a "wormhole" approach to space travel. Did you notice that the heighliner looks like the sand worm.
It's a bit of a funny metaphor, how space travel ties into worms both ways: The spice produced by sand worms is the ships' fuel source, and wormholes their main travel avenue in outter space.
They didn’t put the scene in when Jessica almost died due to being buried by sand. Loved the movie. It pushed me to finally read the books. Currently few chapters into Heretics. Very awesome reads!
I generally loved the movie but didn’t like how weepy Jessica is. In my mind, the way I read her, she’s much emotionally stronger than that. She’s a trained Bene Gesserit.
I’ve seen this mentioned a few times, but I see it a bit different, although I’ve not read the book yet. To me it seems she’s extremely stressed, but as the Duke is, for similar but different reasons. The Duke knows he and his House are being set up to fall, so there’s that, but she’s also worried, because all her choices as coming to a point where Paul will either prove himself to be who she hopes he is, or dies trying to prove it. Remember she had Paul against orders, than trained him in the B.G. ways, despite it being restricted to females only, so if he son dies, trying to fulfill the prophecy, it will ultimately be her fault as it was her choices that put him in that position, so the stress of that, and the coming attack, which put them all at risk, I can see Jessica being out of sorts.
In the novel's depiction of the Gom Jabbar scene, Jessica is visibly and audibly relieved that Paul is still alive. The film shows the worry that takes place in the interim. As for her being strong, she is--when she talks to Paul after the Reverend Mother leaves, in the thopter (badass!), and in the tent when Paul is having visions.
@@johnpatz8395 Yes, already she's set up as this rebel ,a "black sheep" among the Bene Gesserit, who's willing to break tradition for ambition's sake; which he did twice, by genuinely loving the Duke and having a son instead of a daughter like she was supposed to.
what I truly missed, and to me was the point when I fell head over heels with Dune was the all out transcendent visionary state Paul fell into in the tent with his mother after they escaped from the Harkonnens. To me as having many experiences with psycadelics it was a love letter. If the movie could have visualized THAT, where past, present, future, possible outcomes, the mystery of the spice, the combination of it with Paul's Bene Gesserit training and ultimetely his emotion of actually hating his mother for it, and his total alienation with the world and his fear about it, could have had a part and focus point in the movie, I would be a happier dogo. Apperently Jodorowsky had Something like that in mind. In Star Wars 'The Force Awekens' there was such a scene, which I think was executed well but unfortunatley had no substance or any consequences further down the line. Bottom line is: Missed opportunity to bring more transcendent psycadelic ideas in movies like that.
I agree. Denis may have held back, because the rest of the story, and jihad, will not be revealed in part 2 and his adaptation will end at that point. Similar to the older movie, they couldn't tell the whole story with just one movie so they held back.
Yes. The scene in the tent in the book at least seemed a pivotal scene of realisation for Paul. In the movie it wasn't portrayed that way. Only hinted at it.
I wish Denis had made Mentats. Thufir Hawat and Piter De Vries more involved in the movie. The Trailer made it seem like the would have bigger roles. They are hardly in it.
Great video! I love the film and how they managed to squeeze so much info into 2+ hours, but one added scene is confusing. They establish the Reverend Mother as a Truthsayer but she seemed to accept the Baron's assurance that he wouldn't harm Jessica and Paul. A Truthsayer can read intentions as well as lies so this seemed really odd.
After she met Paul we learn that the Bene Gesserit have more then one string to their bow. So, she might just not care whether they die or not. Or, like established in the scene with the Harkonnen soldiers in the copter, someone has to actually tell the lie, not just think about it (like in the books?). There is even a third option: She actually gets the lie, but because she suspects (knows?) Paul and Jessica's future she must not interfere. However, i prefer door 1. Mostly because they established well enough the Bene Gesserit don't care about individuals, willing to sacrifice for 'the greater good'. And Jessica already sabotaged the plan by carrying out a son. So, no need to keep them around. There is some advantage Paul might have over the Reverend Mother: Steering the future by himself, not through (unreliable) agency. And i like the idea the path of Muad'Dib not only crosses the plans of Harkonnen and Emperor, but the Bene Gesserit as well.
I’m pretty much in agreement with your observations except on two counts. Even before the sequels Dune Messiah and Children of Dune, it was readily apparent that Paul was terrified of some of his dreams, especially those involving the green banner of his house leading a galaxy-wide jihad where billions would die. Who, except for a sociopath or malignant narcissist, would not be terrified of such visions? Paul is neither, as the sequels prove. The second point I disagree with is the banquet hall scene where the power brokers of Arrakis, including spice merchants and the guild, test the mettle of the “young duke” in absence of his father. The potential for violence is present at every turn, and Paul proves he is a worthy successor to the fiefdom. The only part of the SyFY channels’ version of Dune worthwhile was this scene; they screwed up the entire casting and those foppish post-Renaissance costumes of the Sardarkar were so laughable as to make the rest of the series a joke.
Julie Cox was perfect as Irulan. And no film or TV version of Dune has ever gotten either the Bene Gesserit or Sardaukar costumes right. Something's wrong when the audience takes one look at these characters and starts snickering.
Hey Cortex, really quick: the Fremen do indeed save Paul and Jessica from the worm when crossing the deep desert. They deploy a second thumper in the distance which distracts the worm and lures it away just before they meet with the Fremen. That scene is actually a good translation of the scene as well. Only callout, otherwise this is beautifully assembled well done
The dinner party scene was shot for the movie but it was cut from the final version probably to bring down the run time. Some shots from the scene can be seen in the trailers. The ones where Jessica is wearing the red dress.
By and large, I think the changes made for cinematic purposes actually work incredibly well. What really surprised me was the gender swap of Dr. Kynes. It worked out so much better than I ever pictured it.
The reason it doesn't matter is that what the character is and what the character represents isn't tied to gender, that said why change it anyway? I mean we know why it was done but unltimately it doesn't matter. Where Villeneuve missed a trick with Keynes was the death scene, it was cringe to me, as a long time fan of the book it was weak and just ticked a cliched heroic character death check box, in the book Keynes hallucinates and argues with an image of his father lecturing him even though his fathers image just carries on with his monlogue as he suffers from dehydration and his treatment by the Harkonnens after he is left stranded in the desert, it gives insight into the character and why he went native and what he'd hoped to achieve as Liet, it also gives us insight into the relationship of the worms and spice, it is a brilliantly written piece of the book and very moving in it's own way, Keynes knowing he is going to die, his making peace with it and his relationship with his father, not to mention the desert hawks overhead and the single bird that is gradually getting braver and coming closer to Liet as his death approaches only for it to fly off as the pre spice mass is ready to blow. I get you can't fit it in but it could've added some much needed expostition even in a tighter scene, especially as the movie is crying out for more exposition. Dune is a lot of things, most of them overwelmingly positve, but as an adaptation, it fails, once the hype dies down and people are more objective it will rightfully recieve recognition for its art design, visuals, and score, but as an adaptation I'm sorry but it's poor, very poor, like most complex literary works a good adaptation is just not on for a movie even two or three, a mini series maybe but not a movie, too many factors stand in the way.
I didn't fully like the way Lady Jessica was portrayed in the movie, she was so composed, observant, intelligent, incredibly strong and overall a badass in the book but in the movie I feel like she gave off a different vibe.
Frank Herbert actually consulted on the David Lynch version. Even though Lynch admits to not reading the book before taking on the project, there was a LOT in that film (the longer version aired on television) that was better than what was represented in the new version, at least when it comes to presenting the vision of Frank Herbert. Simply because the author himself made sure it was there. Sadly, the Lynch version was edited so heavily that a lot of the nuance and details that the book readers would have noticed, got left on the editing room floor. Say what you will about the acting and the special effects, or that fact that Kyle Maclachlan was easily double Paul's age in the book. There were many details that were spot on. Harkonnens having red hair? I think the new movie is fantastic, but, there was so much time spent just looking at scenery that could have been used adding story that SHOULD have been there. The party scene, the sealed garden where Jessica finds the note, the explanation of the chrysknife between Jessica and the Shadout Mapes. If this story was about the arrival to the city of Arakeen, there was very little that actually dealt with the storyline of what happened in the setup to Paul's escape to the desert. But we got several loooong, slo-mo shots of spaceships that lasted way longer than necessary. I would have preferred more story in the movie. It's not like he can go back afterwards. My question then is, if the new version becomes a trilogy, where does Denis split the last 2/3 of the book? I would suggest he make the split at the point of Paul taking the water of life and falling into a coma. Before that point it's all a out Paul becoming a true Fremen and consolidating his leadership. To the point where he's forced to decide whether to challenge Stilgar. But, once he takes the water of life, he transcends that issue to become the Messiah figure. The 3rd film then would be the taking of Arrakis and dealing with the Emperor. It ends the 2nd movie at a "down" place like all great trilogies. The second film ALWAYS ends poorly and in desperation for the protagonist. The third is the triumph. If this is a 2-parter? There's just NO way to fit all the story that's left in 1 more picture. It would be barely recognizable to those who know the source material. Like watching the old Rankin-Bass cartoon versions of Return of the King and the Hobbit.
I understand why these changes were made. The movie had to be equally good for Dune’s fans as for the larger audience of moviegoers who have not read the series. For example, to understand the existence and full extent of the mentats’ capabilities needs a very complex explanation that would have taken too much time in the movie. I believe this was the same criterion used to change so drastically the betrayal of Dr. Yueh. Imagine how much time it would have taken to explain the doctor’s imperial conditioning and how it was broken by Peter De Vries, so that Yueh would be able to betray the Duke and his family. The much simpler way that was portrayed in the movie might not be very satisfying for us, Dune avid fans, but it’s much easier to understand that he was being blackmailed and threatened into committing such despicable act. I know we would have loved to see many of these intricacies and complex plots and subplots on film, but that would have required to make Dune into a series instead of a movie or movie franchise. In fact, I still think that the Dune series and all its stories are better fitted for a series format like GOT. But I’m enormously happy that at least two movies are being made, and that the first excelled my highest expectations. I’m hoping the second one will be as good or, hopefully, even better than the first one.
I agree totally. Though, ten years from now, DV is going to slap his forehead thinking, "I should've added THAT!" Or this, or that. It's fabulous the way you made it, DV!!
You're not wrong, but as bad an adaptation the Lynch movie was, not to mention just straight up inventing core plot elements, it's the better adaptation for me, the things you mention here are better explained and presented in the Lynch movie, which given that Lynch made the whole book into a movie with a similar runtime is puzzling, after watching the Villneuve movie I rewatched the Lynch movie, which I have to be honest is a gulity pleasure and in isolation it's a good movie, I also rewatched the SYFY mini series, they both beat Villeneuve in adaptation, massively so in the mini series, but the mini series production valuies are to be blunt awful, I'd forgotten how bad the mini series costumes and effects were, compared to the visuals of Villeneuve it was painfully bad, that said it was streets ahead in its adaptation. After thinking about the Lynch movie adaptation vs Villeneuves adaptation for a while I came to the conclusion that the reason the Lynch version did better was the use of exposition, Virginia Madsens Irulan at the beginning sets up the movie very well and the use of major characters throughout giving their thoughts as exposition worked really well in conveying the ideas and themes, not always, but for the majority it worked really well. In an interview Villeneuve said he wanted the score to be the exposition, and as good as the score is, it is in no way any good at acting as exposition, I don't know why Villeneuve went with this approach, maybe he didn't want to be accused of copying Lynch or he honestly thought the score could do it, it didn't, not even close, he missed a trick here, he missed it huge, it would've added so much more whilst keeping none readers of the book invested as well as fans of the book. As a movie fan I really loved the film, but as a Dune fan I was very disappointed and in all honesty this was what I expected, I went to see it with my wife and brother, my wife has read the book though she's not a big sci fi fan, my brother hadn't read the book but enjoyed the Lynch movie, they both enjoyed it, very much so in my brothers case, he was blown away, but even he felt something was missing and I had to be his exposition after the fact, while my wife really enjoyed it as well, she's a Villeneuve fan first and foremost, she was disappointed too, one of her favourite parts of the book was the friction between the Baron and Pieter de Vries and after she'd seen pictures of the Stellan Skarsgaard and David Dastmalchian in costume she couldn't wait to see them in the movie, she was really disappointed, I know it would've been impossible to get it all in there, but at least some sort scene must've been doable if only to hint at it, but there was literally nothing, nothing at all, so many characters got this treatment, and yeah none fans wouldn't mind, myself as a Dune fan it really tainted the experience, exposition here could've done so much more. There's so many other things I could pick apart but the film is done, Villeneuve doesn't do directors cuts and has always said that the cut you see is the cut he wanted, I can't help but think there's a way better version on the cutting room floor, that said no amount of exposition can repair the damge done with the writing for Rebecca Ferguson as Jessica, she is a fine actress but the way she was written was terrible, gone is the stoic Bene Gesserit concubine of the Duke of a great house to replaced with, as my wife says, "a hand wringing borderline neurotic who spends a lot of time on the verge of hysteria", maybe a bit harsh but not wholly innaccurate, it even made my wife doubt if Villeneuve is the fan of the books he says he is, she believed she couldn't have been written so badly if it were done deliberately. I think when it all is said and done it will receive praise for its asthetic and visuals and deservedly so but once the hype dies down and people start to view it with more objectivity it will be criticised for it's poor adaptation. I think a big budget brings a lot of baggage, Dune had nineteen producers, and it shows, maybe with its success Villeneuve will get more freedom and bring the threads together better in the second movie, I really do hope so. I still think his best big movies are Prisoners, Arrival, and Sicario in that order, BR2049 was good and like Dune the visuals did a lot of the heavy lifting but it paid enough respect to the source material and told a solid story, his real skill is with the type of movies his earlier work gave us, Incendies is far and away his very best work, that's where he is a master of his craft. I think even other great driectors like Wes Anderson and Tom Ford would probably struggle with big budgets as it would interfere to much with how they do things, maybe Villeneuve will go back to his earlier type of work, I hope so, he's a great talent. Apologies for the wall of text.
@@gs8494 I liked the lynch version, except for the versions of the Baron and Rabin (sp?), which was overdone and sort of spoiled the atmosphere. Which was quickly regained. I read the book eons ago, twice, and I wish I still had it, 'cos I don't feel like can comment as well based on long distant memory. I watched the Lynch version twice on HBO over the past 2 weeks or so, and it felt really good seeing it again. The more recent version by Mr. Villeneuve was just plain refreshing, despite the lacks in the sub-plots, for its organization, pacing, and clarity of transition between scenes gave it a fast-moving action sense even when there was less action and more talk. Well-balanced? Organic?? And, to me, the dialogue content/delivery was also very effective because it was all so well-integrated and very natural-sounding, and not forced. Less dramatic. Which thus didn't take attention away from the main plotline. I think the balance of action scenes and dialogue brought viewers (read AND unread) easily right into the Dune environment, and thank the gods the baron and children were directed to be a lot more subtle (but still insane). But anyway -- I really have to see DV's movie again. And again, I have a feeling! And when I ever get the book again, I KNOW I'll be doing the face-palm throughout, so why fret...and, maybe DV will take some of our comments to heart!
@@paulbrinkman5631 I wouldn't wait to long to read the book again and the others, they always hold up well, more so than others, Foundation for one, whilst I do love Foundation it hasn't aged as well, but Herberts Dune and its Universe I think will be timeless, it seems today it's all about subverting expectation, newflash, Herbert did it over 50 years ago with Dune, especially with the brutal deconstruction of Paul in Dune Messiah, the series' themes are relevant in any age, maybe more so today when we are quick to make heroes and villains of people without a second thought to the truth or consequences, that's without even looking at the enviromental themes. I still have hope for the second movie though, I just hope they let Villeneuve do it his way without interference.
The more I watch the enormous amount of Dune content on UA-cam, the more I realize the 2021 film is only a grain of spice in a vast desert of source material and the more I’m worried that the whole story would not be able to be told. I would be overjoyed if we ever receive God Emperor on the big screen.
Denis only plans to go for a trilogy, and personally I think Messiah is the best to end on anyway. It’s tragic and fitting as an ending for Paul’s story, and it’s also the point where the books are still mostly grounded. Children and after go off the rails with psychedelic, mental, or just plan unrealistic physical things happening, all in ways that would be difficult to carry over to the big screen. I may be a little biased; I think God Emperor and to an extend Children are the worst of the Dune books, mostly because Leto II is not even really a character, but more of an idea. He’s fascinating conceptually but I never liked or even really related to him, since the books straight up state he’s not even really a person, he’s -a pre-born collective ruled by his own ancestors memories. That’s interesting in the book, but it won’t work in a movie, and that’s disregarding him spewing gibberish as profound societal commentary. I think Children would also be really difficult, because of the issues with Letos character, and because child actors are difficult to work with, so they’d have to make him older. If they do children, I’d also really hope that they don’t include the scene where putting on the sand trout gives him f*cking superpowers, because for the most part the series is very physically grounded until then. Making him near-invincible because of sand trout I can buy, but it would just be comical to watch a child jump 400 meters in a single bound or throw a 50 ton door at people. If children can handle this right, i could maybe see it, but I still think there’s too much mentally going on to make things clear for a general audience. But the biggest reason to me is just that I think Messiah is the only clear, final ending for Paul’s story, and he’s the character we actually care about so far. And it’s a fitting and tragic one at that. Every book after that doesn’t have a sense of ending so much as bleeding into a sequel, and for Children and onward to work they’d have to make me care about Leto II.
I completely concur with your observations about what was missing from the film adaptation. Even though whilst watching I was beginning to worry about the excellent dinner scene being omitted entirely, by the time the surprising finale of the film was reached, I understood that these were necessary to support the limitations of adapting such a richly detailed sci-fi novel to screen.
One thing I was not sure was depicted properly in the movie , was the way the Sappho stains on the mentats lips were shown only looking like black squares. Seems like it should look more like it was shown in the 1984 Dune movie.
Thanks for reminding me of that. I had totally forgotten about the stain upon the lips. That was better portrayed in Lynch’s film. I was also a big fan of Brad Dourif’s portrayal of a slightly unhinged Piter.
One thing that I noticed in this movie and it bothered me, was that the Shadout Mapes didn't bloody the Crysknife when she put it back. She gave it to Jessica that way. Otherwise the movie was great.
I would have been happy to sit in IMAX for another 3 hours to get more of this great movie! I still wonder why Stilgar has a heavy accent, and none of the other Fremen (Jamis and Chani) do not. If they all grew up together, why the difference? Jessica and the Reverand Mother have similar accents, so that is a little more believable.
12:48 I’m inclined to disagree here. First, I want to point out an error made earlier. Kynes, in the books, is not an offworlder made honorary Fremen. That is his father, Pardot Kynes. He is the son of Pardot Kynes and a fremen woman. Now, my disagreement. His death was not just Herbert “writing him off”. If was cementing the planet, Dune, as the ultimate unconquerable power in the story. Despite Kynes dedicating his whole life to studying and preparing to change the planet, he was killed by it. Not my hunger and dehydration like you said, but rather, when spice is formed an explosion occurs. The book goes into detail about this, so I won’t, but what you need to know is that Kynes was on top of this “spice blow”. It exploded, and he was killed by the planet. It’s perfect thematically. What happened in the movie was cool, sure, but it was cool and nothing else. Now, of course, I haven’t read the first book in a while, so if I made an error or if you disagree, let me know.
The only issue that I thought could’ve been easily fixed that I found with the movie, Even though the desert shots are gorgeous it would be incredible if you could see a red glimmer in the shallow parts of Sandune‘s and lightly spread throughout the rest of the sand. I think it would make arrakis feel more alien and magical
I agree that the change in intro framing was a way to make it more relevant to contemporary audiences. Which is what I liked least about the film compared to the book. I don't have a problem with creative liberties being taken, but imo core themes of a work should be able to stand on their own without pandering to modern prejudices.
Great job! I think when adapting a book with such a rich universe into a film it is crucial to basically cull the content for the sake of a coherent and engaging thread. Unfocussed exploration works in a book, but is detrimental in film, which is more like poetry than prose. We didn't need to see Feyd yet because he was not important to this part of the story and it would've added 'noise'. Something like elaborating on the Mentats must've been a hard call, but I would imagine the conversation went something like "Yes, it's cool, but it doesn't add to our story - as such, let's illustrate it to enrich the world and give a nod to the fans, but not spend time spelling it out for new audiences" - after all, the skill of making good work is just as much about subtraction as it is about addition. If we had an explainer session it would've felt contrived and unnatural. I think that Denis Villeneuve and his team did an amazing job of juggling fan expectations with newcomer engagement. I think there was a vast amount of careful design thinking. This felt like a very tasteful loveletter from a very good filmmaker - respectful and dignified.
I really think they should've emphasized the heat of the planet and the extreme preservation for water more than they did in the film, which is at the forefront sensation of the book. I was honestly confound seeing Paul walk outside with no stillsuit onscreen. I constantly felt thirsty reading the novel, the movie, well, just burned my eyes...
A bullet and birdshot are tools used for different reasons. So is a movie and a novel. Villeneuve used the bullet method. Streamline the plot and move the story forward in a more direct way rather than birdshoting all the intricacies and characters in a massive show of incoherence to nonreaders. Excellent choice by Villeneuve.
The trouble is that while it gets the movie in a tighter and compact version, the more complex the source, the more the movie suffers in adaptation, and Dune for all it's stunning visuals and score is a spectacular cinema experience, but the flip side is how poor an adaptation it ultimately is. As a fan of the books I can fill in the blanks but that doesn't mean I'm going to excuse its failings, and it has many of them have no doubt.
@@MrRawnerves I've read all six books multiple times over the last few decades, participated on multiple Dune discussion forums, and ran two of them. I'm familiar with what should be in a film adaptation to do justice to the novel, and Villeneuve's movie isn't it.
Bit surprised that Dr. Yueh wasn't mentioned a single time as I'd say his sudden betrayal in the film, as opposed to knowing he's a traitor from early on in the book, was one the biggest and most drastic of all the changes made for the film. However, It's worth pointing out that WB recently released several photos from deleted scenes and almost all of the have been Yueh related, so this seems to have been an runtime issue and not related to adapting the novel to film. All the other changes mentioned in the video I agree were sensible decisions, but I'm still hoping we'll get an extended cut like LOTR at some point that can flesh out Yueh.
I had no problem with the way they hid Dr Yueh being a traitor. To the uninitiated it came as a shock. They'll probably release those scenes on the blue ray.
I think that Herbert could have made a more Shakespearen attempt to the Drama of why Yueh actually betrayed the house he served, we know why but it was both in the book and in the movie a bit dry for my taste. I just couldn't relate. I mean after all he was conditioned .... so what happened? How deep was that love and what did they actually do to his wife and what not?
In the book it talks about hand signals. That is actually a better description of what we see in the movie than sign language, which usually involves much more than some fingers moving.
Liet Kynes was the son of Pardot Kynes and inherited his father's post as written in Dune's appendix. Liet was Chani's father and brother to Stilgar. Making him a woman in this latest adaptation was the single greatest change between film and novel. That said, it is understandable to abbreviate some of these character arcs to enhance thematic focus. I have the impression that as a Herbert fan, Villeneuve also read Eye and Chapterhouse. I see both books lending inspiration to the film's stunning visual poetry.
10:11 no... just no, that's not why Thufir and the rest believed that, it was because she is a Bene Gesserit, and the mentats are very skeptical of the plottings of the Bene Gesserit for obvious reasons
I had hoped we would get more info during the security briefing, but sadly at the very beginning it immediately jumped to going out to see the spice silos and gear. It need not been 30 minutes long, but a few minutes on threats and security being put in place to deal with them. This is especially important, as the evening of the attack, it almost seems like the only 3 men on duty were those guarding the House shield, as everyone else comes running from the barracks. I loved the movie, saw it twice on HBO MAX and, the first time with my wife, then with my wife and son, then the three of us to to see it in IMAX this past weekend, and loved it as much, if not more, the third time as the first! 👍
I’m glad to learn that someone who read the book agrees with the choices the director took to introduce a universe that the average person Hasn’t read. TY!
14:31 you made a little mistake. Paul doesn't "give water" to Jamis after killing him in the books either. He does it later, in the funeral ceremony. Which would logically be in the beggining of the second movie, considering this chapter of the book is very important because Paul is accepted among the Fremen at this point.
around 14:40 you discuss Paul not giving water to the dead, but that didn't happen until the "friend of jamis" ceremony once they got back to Sietch Tab'r. Thus, it will ilkely be the first scene of the new movie, perhaps intercut with feyd fighting in the ring.
The only difference I found a shame was Kynes’ death, if only in what get explained there. The movie made it seem Kynes was more of an agent turned native, rather than someone that had a real goal in changing Arrakis.
Well done. I generally agree with your assessment of the differences between book and movie and their worthiness. The one element left out of the movie that I thought would've help round out the development of Paul's character, which you clearly touched on yourself in another video, was the mentat training Paul was receiving from Thufir, along with the Bene Gesserit training he received from his mother, the combat/self-defense training he received from Gurney and Duncan, and the statesmanship training he quite naturally got from his father.
In part 2, I'll like to see a lot of focus on some aspects. First, I think the movie could now start with a introduction by Princess Irulan, instead of Chani's. I see a astonishing aristrocratic female beauty, making a very cult and lyrical narration of the future. She should be impressive and strongly seductive. A noble and profound figure. Second, Jamis funeral must be exposed. To display the harsh and severe culture of the Fremen. The importance of water and of strict personality. To consolidate the mutation of Paul to Muadib. And Chani relation should be more developed. Third, the mentat's and Thufir Hawat role should appear. The incrimination of Lady Jessica of treason of the Atreides House by Thufir and Gurneck must reveal itself. Fourth, the evil foes. Feyd Rautha must be portrait as a perfect male body, brilliant, but extremely narcissistic, cold and amoral. A terrible enemy at the level of Paul, a real threatning menace. House Corrino and the corrupted power of the Imperador with the connection to the Spacing Guild plans to murder Paul, must have it's exposition, of course. There should be also a exposition of the conection of the culture of people and ecology. To me, Irulan, Feyd, Thufir, the Imperator, a Space navigator must have a strong role in part 2. I can only hope.
It should be noted that in the book Salusa Secundus was not universally known as the Emperor’s “Army planet”. It was his prison planet. Secretly, the Emperor knew that the harsh climate was the perfect place to raise the toughest soldiers, and this is why the Fremen were even tougher. But the rest of the universe did not know where the Sardaukar came from. Therefore, as awesome as the movie scene was, Piter would not have traveled to Salusa Secondus to meet with the Sardaukar.
Thufir Hawat did not suspect Lady Jessica because she saw her as second-class or servant. It is his job to take into consideration every posibility, no matter how small it is. Actually, Thufir respects Lady Jessica it's just that his training and his duty prevents him to just "belive" in her.
It seems like the presenter in this video didn't even read the book, or just skimmed the Cliff Notes version. He's clueless as to the actual status of Bene Gesserit breeders who are assigned as concubines to various Great Houses. It's actually unusual for a Bene Gesserit to be married. In the entire Dune series there are only three: Margot Fenring, Empress Anirul (Shaddam's wife), and Princess Irulan (who later becomes Empress though Paul refuses to let her bear his heir).
i was completely on board before the prologue was even over due to the shift in focus. when earlier it's been told from the colonisers' perspective, saying "this planet is dangerous and hostile, its resources are very important to us". whereas in villeneuve's version it starts with a fremen saying "this is my home, and it's beautiful". it's a rather small thing but also significant.
I really like your exposition on the book and the film. A minor fact no one seems to have grasped is the thing with the bull. Duke Leto's father died in a bullfitght. The opponents of the Atreides' are the Harkonnen. The Harkonnen is a non indo-European name Frank Herbert found in a LA phone book while writing the Dune. The name is a Finnish name. In Finland it is written Härkönen. The name comes from the Finnish word for the bull. The bull in Finnish is Härkä. Härkönen - Harkonnen means "that of the bull", or "bullish". Exactly the position the Harkonnens present in the Dune.
My only complaint with the movie is that it doesn't convey what a hellish world Dune is....nobody would be walking around with any skin exposed except in the sietches. Read the book, people! Guaranteed you won't be able to put it down
FH makes it clear throughout the first three books how critical it is to keep the moisture seals intact in the sietches so moisture doesn't escape and water discipline is enforced. The movies where Fremen wander around outside not wearing a stillsuit and openly panting, wasting moisture, would never happen in the novel.
I think the most important element in this re-make is that the writer/producer/directors seemed to try to see the results of each scene from the eyes of the audience, so they would be sure the audience would know exactly what was going on, and how the scenes would come across to readers and non-readers of the book alike. Just like reading the book. I also think that Chani's introduction gave a stronger shot of meaning attribution to the story, rather than Irulan, by setting first off, firm and clear, one of the main, overall themes, from the eyes of the oppressed, thus eliciting a strong dose of SYMPATHY for them--the off-world invaders who have subjugated the fremen's world for hundreds (?) of years, stealing their precious resources; and now, ANOTHER off-world invader has come to TAKE OVER, with uncertainty running afoul over the nature of these new "masters." Anticipation...! Does it ever get old.
I just wish that firearms and the wide variety of firearms were used in the film as they were in the novel. Firearm use and Sword/Knife use were more balanced out in the novel. I was waiting for the Sardukaur to use the weapons acquired from Richese to counteract the shields. Also the explanation as to why because of the Holtzman shield, that combatants would resort to melee combat. Mainly to avoid the sub atomic reaction that a shield would have after being in contact with an energy blast from a lasgun. That was a huge missed opportunity to explain to people that haven't read the novel that were wondering as to why the Atreides and Harkonnen forces were fighting with swords and knives as Arrakeen was literally being bombarded by spaceships. Who knows maybe if Denis Villeneuve produces an extended cut, he can include the multiuse and simultaneous interchanging of warfare tactics in battle within the Dune universe. Especially during the siege of Arrakeen where many shots were fired on both sides.
First, I want to say I love the book and I love DV's Dune. I totally understand insisting that the movie be exactly like the book is unreasonable and impossible, but I don't think it wouldn't have taken that long to explain how important Mentats are in the Dune Universe.
1 other huge difference is that Fremen travel at night. The fight between Paul and Jamis was in a cave and NOT wearing a stillsuit to evade pointless damage. Caves were water sealed and stillsuits are basicly for fremen what a spacesuit is for an astronaut.
What bout the reveal that Jessica is the barons daughter while her and Paul are in the tent. I think that's a massive plot point they left out probably for a more dramatic reveal in the second film.
About Paul's visions. On this movie, he clearly see the carnage of the Golden Path. He also clearly see other paths he could take. Most importantly, he sees a path were the dude from the last dual becomes his mentor and friend... and as he move for a higher ground as they are attacked by the Fremen, it is plainly shown that he can't choose all paths,.the first person he have to hit in pursue of higher ground was exactly the dude that will no longer be his mentor and friend... because Paul desarmed him and trew him down in a way that was umiliating to the dude... thus, the dude now demands Paul's water in an attempt to save face. Killing him, was Paul's acceptance of the Golden Path. Beautifully done, even though it is not explicitly on the book.
Completely disagree with the change to Liet Kynes’s death. The point of that character was to highlight Frank Herberts warning about heroes and charismatic leaders, which Liet falls prey to (“I like this duke”) in spite of his fathers warnings, like he hallucinates during his death. That’s why his death is so tedious and sad in the book. It wasn’t because Herbert was bored of the character, they had a very specific purpose to fulfill. By upstaging Liets death as something more heroic and cool, it undermines the point Herbert was trying to make.
I would have loved (at least) thirty minutes extra in the movie showing (1) the hidden ecological garden and the warning left by Jessica's predecessor on the planet, (2) more of the mentats and Paul's potential, (3) his embrace of his powers to neurotically look for a way to prevent the intergalactic slaughter in the name of Muad'dib and giving the character of Liet more weight. She had a nice send off, but her dream of creating a lush planet and it's complications for the spice production were major plot points in the book which I really liked thematically. Oh, and I wish they had made Jessica a more powerful character. They really gave in to the portrayal of a sensitive and caring mother, while in the books she is much more of a fierce 'tiger mom'. This added a lot to Paul's initial aversion of his visions and gave context to the extent of the Bene Gesserit's commitment to their plan. That being said, the movie is one of the best and close to source material sci-fi adaptations I have ever seen on the big screen, can't wait to go to part two next Saturday!
Liet Kynes death was not better in the movie. The chapter where he dies is all about him reflecting on the nature of the planet and him following in the footsteps of his father; because he was born on Arrakis in the book. His death is slow and reflective because he reveres the ecology of the world and has no hate for it even though it is what kills him in the end. Seems like the take from someone who didn't read or understand the book.
No, the Liet death was better in the book. You missed some of the messaging. You don't learn about his father and his relationship with the planet.. Not giving water for the dead is a missed point that relates how Paul is different than the fermen and they are amazed by it. They look up to him because of it.
They sacrificed story for action. They left out so many key plot points. If I had never read the books, this movie wouldn't motivate me to pick them up.
One thing I never liked about the movies is how they portray the Lady Jessica. In the books she was strong and intelligent. A quiet power under estimated. In the movies she is weak and more dependent on Paul.
The narrative calling Liet an offworlder is incorrect. That is more applicable to his father Pardot. Both Kynes married Fremen women and Liet’s mother was from Tabr .
I don't know much about screenwriting but I think DV did a magnificent job with this. Sure, I'd love to see every scene and conversation in the novel played out word for word, as well as some awesome sci-fi action, but I remember Feydakin like myself aren't the only audience for it.
1 the fact spice is necessary for guild navigotors to navigate through foldspace is NOT publically known! 2 Harkonnen uniforms are blue, not black, their heraldic symbol is a griffin, not some abstract horn-symbol 3 yuehs reason for treason was very unclear , controversial and debated in the book, it was not blatant simple blackmail 3 the Sardaukar have long hair 4 the aTREIDES WERE VERY WELL AWARE that arrakis was a deathtrap and the emperor was involved! Obviously Kynes was a blonde dude in the book... All in all the movie was VERY faithful to the novel!
No ball room scene! No spys! They changed the harvester rescue scene! Not dune. The spies were put in place to show just how deep and in everyone's face the rivalry between harkonen and atrates was. Now we just get the attack and one hunter seeker scene.
This Dune adaptation was AWESOME. However, the 4 - 6hrs version that Jason Momoa mentioned, needs to be released, either on streaming, DVD, or as a re-release in the theaters.
What?
Extended Version is coming?
Get out of town!
@@captainalpaka1551 I didn't say it was coming. I meant it needs to come. They might just make it the part 2.
Indeed. It would truly be a disservice to the audience not to release the large amount of footage ignored in the theatrical release. There is at least another 40 minutes of footage removed before it went to theaters and the actors have made clear there is even more than that filmed. Not sure why they wouldn't release it.
@@G3UDO They might be saving those footage for part 2.
@@captainalpaka1551 Unfortunately Villeneuve is adamantly opposed to releasing it
I am surprised nobody noticed that or mentioned that but Liet Kyne called the sandworm to ride on it. It just happens that she get killed before she managed to do so. A lot of people seems to think that she called the worm to kill the Sardaukar.
That was her original intention, but after she was stabbed she continued to create a rhythm that called the worm closer. Death was inevitable for her so she used the worm to avenge herself and give them all a terrifying end.
And I love the mirage/vision at the end where we can see her riding the worm after all. Beautiful and poetic, a lot of respect shown towards Kynes…
@@thestarseeker8196 dont think thats kynes buddy
As someone who has never read the books nor watched any of the previous films, I was so excited when the hooks came out only to be crushed when she got killed.
@@thestarseeker8196 that wasn’t kynes that was just another fremen
Kynes actually gets blown up in the novel by a pre-spice mass explosion. He had been left to die in the desert, but hunger and thirst were not what ultimately killed him. Herbert was using his death scene in the novel to help in his world-building by dramatically illustrating part of how the worms are connected to the spice.
Exactly, and that's why it makes totally sense that Denis altered his death in the movie, otherwise the whole spice/worm connection would have been given away too soon
A powerful moment lost
I was goin to point that out. It's an important part of the nature of spice and his death by the explosion it's used to introduce it
True, but movie Kynes's death is a pretty honorable one as well. I was kind of disappointed that the movie didn't point out that Chani was Kynes's daughter.
@@rhaenyralikesyoutube6289 We might well get all these plot threads served to us in part two. I feel like a lot of people are expecting Villeneuve to simply skip a lot of Paul's development in the desert, but I have a sneaking suspicion that 1/3 if not more of the movie will be spent on Paul becoming a Fremen (and Rebecca's pregnancy).
I would love if, after the story concludes, there's a director's cut with a longer runtime and with more of those plot points that are glossed over in the film
I believe we got the director's cut.
@@brotherjohnnyxXxX there’s definitely deleted scenes though would be cool to see all of them added to the movie- so an extended cut?
@@zGraeme We'll probably get to see those scenes on the blue ray.
A 6 hour director’s cut with the deleted scenes that are and will be cut from both movies
there won't
Mistake regarding Liet Kynes. In the appendix in the book, it was actually Liet's father, Pardot Kynes, who was the offworlder - a Planetologist who stumbled on a young Stilgar and two other Fremen being attacked by Harkonnen soldiers and he saved their lives. Pardot survived the Fremen's reluctant decision to kill him for seeing their secrets, when the ritual assassin, Uliet, threw himself on his own knife after Pardot, giving a lecture about a paradise Arrakis to bewildered Fremen, told him to "Remove yourself".
When Pardot, who had become an Umma (prophet) in the eyes of the Fremen, was killed in a Cave-in, his son Liet (later father of Chani), born to Stilgar's Sister who Pardot married, was already a Sandrider at 19 and a warrior who had killed 50 Harkonnen's. Liet takes over his father's dream of a paradise Arrakis, which has become the dream and long term plan of the Fremen.
Then they are cursed by the arrival of a Messiah....
Is all that in the appendix or do you get it from House Atreides?
@@oskarfabian5200 All in the first appendix
I wished Denis Villeneuve had included the banquet scene. He could still as a flashback in the second film.
I hope we get an extended cut with it, I also loved this scene
They should have released it ahead like they did with BR2049’s short films.
That scene and Feyd really were the only things frommthe book i missed in the movie!
@göksu gün alioğlu I also wouldn't be surprised if they won't include Harah
@göksu gün alioğlu I think some things may be simplified as it is a lot to add, too many charackters. Well, some intimacy between Usul and Chani will be there for sure. DV plans to make trilogy out of Dune so certain things will be simplified to fit run time.
I felt like the scene where Jessica is given the Crysknife and the prescious nature of the blade is explained. I felt like they brushed over the significance of pulling the knife out of its sheath.
True but that would just be another dump of info that new viewers would struggle with on top of everything else.
@@EcopiuM I think it is worst to not explain what it meant.
By not including the part where Jessica reminds Mapes that the blade must not be re-sheathed without having been bloodied, a viewer who is unfamiliar with the books will be left wondering why the Fremen all cut their wrists towards the end.
@@philipwatson2407 omg thanx. I didn’t get that part at all.
@@EcopiuM people need to thank a little more these days. That's why we get so many dumb down movies
Kynes Death in the book serves as a teaser for the spice cycle and the ecology of Dune. He also realizes in his final moments the full consequence of introducing Paul to his Fremen. He halucinates of his fathers lessons in ecology and starts to see the entire world through that lense. In that moment, he realizes the beginning stages of the ecological cascade that is set in motion on Arrakis and the Imperium. It's a big OhShitMoment.
The chapter directly showcases the books ecological perspective and makes the direct connection to the wider plot/world. Politics, Culure, Power, Economy, all that is framed through an ecological lense. As Ecosystems of complex interactions, temporary balances and effect cascades resonating throughout the whole system. And this illustrates a big theme of Dune. Ecosystems being in and always seeking a stationary balance is a popular misconception. Ecosystems flow constantly. Even ecological balances can only persist as dynamically flowing processes. Life is everchanging, life needs change. Only dead things don't change. And it's also about biodiversity and biological redundancy, or more specifically, the catastrophic effect of a lack thereof.
Frank Herbert applies this to politics, culture and society in general. He criticizes peoples conception of the present status quo as a bedrock, not as the momentary snapshot of an everchanging and flowing process. He criticizes the drive to cement and preserve the present state as the alpha and the omega. He encourages to apply an ecosystematic perspective on Society. To acknowledge the vast network of interactive relationships, interconnectivity and interdependency of everything in it. He warns that change is the way of all life and stopping it is a dangerous illusion. If you try to stop life from flowing, you will only provoke a cascadic reaction down the line. Muad'dibs Jihad is such a cascade. Thats why Paul is unable to stop it.
Why do you use the word cascade like 5 different times to describe different things?
@@tangobang2642 I use it in the same way in all 3 paragraphs. A wave of effects rolling through (and often building up in the process) a complex and interconnected system of relationships. Like a chinese milkpowder scandal rising the price for butter here in Germany a year later. (true story) And i use it, because it's one of the core concepts of my comment.
Incredibly well said. I'm just about the finish reading the first book, and reading your comments gave me a deeper understanding of it.
Nice write up!!! I totally understand what you are saying, and I agree wholeheartedly. I've always understood that we humans have a very limited perspective, and that all things and perspectives are relative. That's what makes this a modern classic.
Actually, dead things do change, thanks to entropy. They don't get any less dead, but they are still part of the eventual breakdown of the universe, all those trillions of years in the future.
Otherwise, it's a pleasure to read a post that shows an excellent understanding of part of what Frank Herbert was getting at.
If he does Messiah I think it has potential to be his best film. It’s right up his alley with the darkness and uncertainty of the plot plus so much potential visual storytelling.
Think it possible to see God Emperor?
@@mpalfadel2008 to me that’s where a miniseries has to come into play. Same with children of dune
@@franklindistelzweig3728 the possibility is compelling to say the least
If he perfects Messiah’s ending, everyone will be in awe.
I do not really see messiah as a sole-standing film... i could imagine messiah and children combined into one as a good film though!
One of the most interesting things about the book Barron is that he isn't sadistic and even admonishes Piter for enjoying violence. It emphasizes that what makes him evil is that he is ruled entirely by his appetites, which is juxtaposed in the book with the scene where the reverend mother explaining that the gom Jabbar test was to see if Paul was able to control his animal instincts. This theme is unfortunately missed in the film.
Exactly!
True
Well, hold on, Part 2 is supposed to have more Harkonnen content, hopefully...
Interesting thought! Very nice to now have a link between the gom jabbar and the overruling of animal insticts of the Baron.
Wasn’t the duke fat end ugly because he was poisoned and as a lad he was quite handsome?
You missed something. Kynes "applied a thumper to the sand and summoned a sandworm" because she was planning to ride it to safety. Not lay a trap for the sardaukar. She even had the grappling hooks out
yeah, but the moment it went wrong she resumed calling the worm to take them with her into death
@@SingingSealRiana yea but it wasn't a trap
@@samlike1018 it was an improvised trap if you will, but yes, she did not plan that
I think DV did a great job of not cluttering the screen with too many characters by killing Kynes early and not introducing Rautha till part 2.
Kynes died about the same time in the book. Rautha is introduced early in the book
As a rabid Dune fan I'm pleasantly surprised with this interpretation. Although it's wild and inaccurate, I love Lynch's version to death, however, this one is darker and somewhat more loyal to the text. During the past 2 months I read all 6 novels again for preparation again - what a throwback in my highscholl days! Dune fucking rocks.
Villeneuve did a god job here, can't wait to see the sequel.
Saw it for a second time in imax - thought it was even better a second time.
I can't pinpoint differences between book and movie as I read it so long ago. But between Lynch's version and this, I do miss Jessica's suspicions of Dr Yeuh but feels reassured looking at his 'forehead mark'. Then too the Bene Gesserit's centuries plans of manipulating bloodlines to their own gain. What I find I miss most is 'seeing' the Navigators 'folding' space in order to move between planets. It brings home just how import the 'spice' truly is.
We do see folded space inside the heighliner
I said the same thing that I wish they had shown the folding of space and it’s relation to the spice
@@shanehall8447 No space folding in this movie. Villeneuve went for a "wormhole" approach to space travel. Did you notice that the heighliner looks like the sand worm.
@Aden Diaz to show something interesting and crucial in that universe. I like that in Lynch’s movie. I also missed there is a mention of an Emperor but we don’t see any of that.
Biggest difference is the movie has a time limit and reading a book you have endless time .
I guess something readers love but myself it is a difficulty of reading… it takes a longer time to tell the same story and even longer if the book takes “time” to explain many details, as in a book any detail has to be explained otherwise we can’t see it 🤣
17:52 - There most definitely was a second thumper in the book. I just read that section last night.
In the book, the Sardaukar were disguised as Harkonnen soldiers to hide the Emperor’s involvement. The movie’s pacing probably would have suffered if exposition was needed for such scenes but I always thought that the disguise was kinda cool. Instead, we see very different uniforms for each side in the battle.
It's a great film that has so much right, but Arrakeen felt like a ghost town and I missed the banquet scene. It was as if everyone else left with the Harkonnens.
Also the plots and schemes of the Baron to paint Jessica in a bad light, Thufir got a raw deal too but Yueh was the worst bit, no foreshadowing and creeping dread. I hardly knew who he was.
Which was a shame cos Leto tooth scene was great.
I just read the book again and to me Arakeen wasn't that lively in the book to begin with. The Party starts out there in the desert with the Fremen and their 'ways'.
The Fremen thumper to draw off the worm is indeed in the book.
My question on this, that has popped into my head each time I’ve seen the movie, is why they set off a thumper? I mean Paul was already on rock, I mean sure he was within reach of the worm, but that’s where he stopped to watch the work, he could easily and rapidly moved back and bit and been far enough from the sand that he couldn’t be splatted against the rock, right?
Or am I missing something? I haven’t read the book yet, but from the movie, that just struck me as strange, as Jamis acts like Paul and Jessica weren’t to the rocks yet, and only his thumper saved them.
I think as the book readers we'd agree that the details cut in the film could be key to truly highlighting the primary plot.
The movie blew me away and I simply have no patience when it comes to Part 2
Same over here 👋🏼
Yeah like Yueh, almost out of nowhere, betraying the Atreides...
@@scotlandtheinsane3359 they could’ve said something during a Harkonnen scene, and had Jessica and Yueh talk about Wana
@@scotlandtheinsane3359 Read the book.... It's pretty much like in the movie except for the suk imperial conditioning, not mentioned in the movie. He explains in the movie that the harkonnen have is wife
@@katanalx absolutely not lmao read it yourself
I think Paul will "give moisture to the dead," later. Kynes really won me over, and I was really skeptical at first.
She ended up being one of my favorite characters from the film, and her death scene was epic.
I think we may have passed that point but you may be on to something
If so, it’ll have to happen within the first 20 minutes of Paul’s narrative in Dune 2
Yeah, she was a very different character than in the book, but she was really good!
Agreed.
If I remember correctly, in the book duel happened on their stop on the journey back to the sietch Tabr, not immediatly after the meeting. Jamis was bitter for the whole day (night?) of their journey and he was pondering his supposed humilation of being defeated by an offworlder teenager. He invokes the amtal after they stop in cave post to rest. Body processing and funeral are done there (they have equipment in the cave I think). In new movie they pack the body and take it with them.
Surely high on the moist meter
One thing that's been bugging me that no one seems to mention:
Jessica's motivation change for birthing Paul.
In Dennis' movie, Rev. Mother Mohiam chastised Jessica on Caladan after the Gom Jabbar for birthing a male to the Duke, saying something along the lines of, "in your delusions of granduer you thought you could give birth to the kwizatch haddarach..."
In the book, Jessica is clearly stated to have had Paul out of her love for the Duke and her desire to produce him a male hier, and has nothing to do with the Kwizatch Haddarach. This somewhat undercuts the later scene between Leto and Jessica in their bedroom.
In the book, her love for Leto was enough for her to put the *entire* balance of the Imperium and Landstradt, indeed the entire universe, at risk, just to have a boy with a man she loved. (A plot line many ignore in the books as well, as it's often stated that Bene Gesserit "witches" would literally kill an unborn child in the womb using their extreme control of their bodies, if it seemed like said child would pose a threat to the order or its mission) Indeed, what did Leto do to break her Bene Gesserit indoctrination? Or was it just his moral philosophy that leadership by action lends to loyalty?
This is a small change to the overall plot narrative of the movie, but a huge change (I believe) to the character of Jessica, whom in the book wouldn't have done such a thing as having a male child out of pride or belief that she'd have the chosen one.
I think that you interpret what Mohiam says to Jessica as Jessica's feeling here, to me it's more that the rev mother thinks Jessica did birth Paul out of pride, when Jessica throughout the movie shows more love to Paul than in the book. Having a vaguely bad memory of Jessica in the book, the movie made me see her in a completely different light and last time i read the book, i only saw the loving mother
also the fact that the movie left out the moment where paul unlocked his prescient in the stilltent with jessica. Where paul saw two paths on one where he see himself presenting as the grandson of the Baron and the other path that will make him thw leader of a jihad. The moment he chose the jihad path, he then can mourn his father
I wonder when even 'Foundation' and ' The Expanse' was made into TV Shows why they didn't make Dune into one. Imagine having at least 6 hours or more to translate this incredible story to film.
I’m glad it didn’t turn out like foundation.
No space folding in this movie. Villeneuve went for a "wormhole" approach to space travel. Did you notice that the heighliner looks like the sand worm.
It's a bit of a funny metaphor, how space travel ties into worms both ways:
The spice produced by sand worms is the ships' fuel source, and wormholes their main travel avenue in outter space.
They didn’t put the scene in when Jessica almost died due to being buried by sand. Loved the movie. It pushed me to finally read the books. Currently few chapters into Heretics. Very awesome reads!
I generally loved the movie but didn’t like how weepy Jessica is. In my mind, the way I read her, she’s much emotionally stronger than that. She’s a trained Bene Gesserit.
I’ve seen this mentioned a few times, but I see it a bit different, although I’ve not read the book yet. To me it seems she’s extremely stressed, but as the Duke is, for similar but different reasons. The Duke knows he and his House are being set up to fall, so there’s that, but she’s also worried, because all her choices as coming to a point where Paul will either prove himself to be who she hopes he is, or dies trying to prove it.
Remember she had Paul against orders, than trained him in the B.G. ways, despite it being restricted to females only, so if he son dies, trying to fulfill the prophecy, it will ultimately be her fault as it was her choices that put him in that position, so the stress of that, and the coming attack, which put them all at risk, I can see Jessica being out of sorts.
In the novel's depiction of the Gom Jabbar scene, Jessica is visibly and audibly relieved that Paul is still alive.
The film shows the worry that takes place in the interim.
As for her being strong, she is--when she talks to Paul after the Reverend Mother leaves, in the thopter (badass!), and in the tent when Paul is having visions.
@@johnpatz8395 "although I’ve not read the book yet" opinion discarded
@@johnpatz8395 the book's Jessica cannot br stressed because she is a bene geserrit
@@johnpatz8395
Yes, already she's set up as this rebel ,a "black sheep" among the Bene Gesserit, who's willing to break tradition for ambition's sake; which he did twice, by genuinely loving the Duke and having a son instead of a daughter like she was supposed to.
what I truly missed, and to me was the point when I fell head over heels with Dune was the all out transcendent visionary state Paul fell into in the tent with his mother after they escaped from the Harkonnens.
To me as having many experiences with psycadelics it was a love letter. If the movie could have visualized THAT, where past, present, future, possible outcomes, the mystery of the spice, the combination of it with Paul's Bene Gesserit training and ultimetely his emotion of actually hating his mother for it, and his total alienation with the world and his fear about it, could have had a part and focus point in the movie, I would be a happier dogo.
Apperently Jodorowsky had Something like that in mind.
In Star Wars 'The Force Awekens' there was such a scene, which I think was executed well but unfortunatley had no substance or any consequences further down the line.
Bottom line is: Missed opportunity to bring more transcendent psycadelic ideas in movies like that.
I agree. Denis may have held back, because the rest of the story, and jihad, will not be revealed in part 2 and his adaptation will end at that point. Similar to the older movie, they couldn't tell the whole story with just one movie so they held back.
Yes. The scene in the tent in the book at least seemed a pivotal scene of realisation for Paul. In the movie it wasn't portrayed that way. Only hinted at it.
Excellent breakdown!! Thumbs Up and you’ve earned a new subscriber!!
You are everywhere!
Who tf trained a dog to watch sci-fi reviews
I wish Denis had made Mentats. Thufir Hawat and Piter De Vries more involved in the movie.
The Trailer made it seem like the would have bigger roles. They are hardly in it.
I love dune
Great video! I love the film and how they managed to squeeze so much info into 2+ hours, but one added scene is confusing. They establish the Reverend Mother as a Truthsayer but she seemed to accept the Baron's assurance that he wouldn't harm Jessica and Paul. A Truthsayer can read intentions as well as lies so this seemed really odd.
After she met Paul we learn that the Bene Gesserit have more then one string to their bow. So, she might just not care whether they die or not.
Or, like established in the scene with the Harkonnen soldiers in the copter, someone has to actually tell the lie, not just think about it (like in the books?).
There is even a third option: She actually gets the lie, but because she suspects (knows?) Paul and Jessica's future she must not interfere.
However, i prefer door 1. Mostly because they established well enough the Bene Gesserit don't care about individuals, willing to sacrifice for 'the greater good'. And Jessica already sabotaged the plan by carrying out a son. So, no need to keep them around.
There is some advantage Paul might have over the Reverend Mother: Steering the future by himself, not through (unreliable) agency. And i like the idea the path of Muad'Dib not only crosses the plans of Harkonnen and Emperor, but the Bene Gesserit as well.
I’m pretty much in agreement with your observations except on two counts.
Even before the sequels Dune Messiah and Children of Dune, it was readily apparent that Paul was terrified of some of his dreams, especially those involving the green banner of his house leading a galaxy-wide jihad where billions would die. Who, except for a sociopath or malignant narcissist, would not be terrified of such visions?
Paul is neither, as the sequels prove.
The second point I disagree with is the banquet hall scene where the power brokers of Arrakis, including spice merchants and the guild, test the mettle of the “young duke” in absence of his father. The potential for violence is present at every turn, and Paul proves he is a worthy successor to the fiefdom.
The only part of the SyFY channels’ version of Dune worthwhile was this scene; they screwed up the entire casting and those foppish post-Renaissance costumes of the Sardarkar were so laughable as to make the rest of the series a joke.
With all the flaws the tv series was a better adaptation then Lynch's Dune
Julie Cox was perfect as Irulan. And no film or TV version of Dune has ever gotten either the Bene Gesserit or Sardaukar costumes right. Something's wrong when the audience takes one look at these characters and starts snickering.
Hey Cortex, really quick: the Fremen do indeed save Paul and Jessica from the worm when crossing the deep desert. They deploy a second thumper in the distance which distracts the worm and lures it away just before they meet with the Fremen. That scene is actually a good translation of the scene as well. Only callout, otherwise this is beautifully assembled well done
The dinner party scene was shot for the movie but it was cut from the final version probably to bring down the run time. Some shots from the scene can be seen in the trailers. The ones where Jessica is wearing the red dress.
And Kynes’ arrival in full dress.
I wish someday we will get the dune part 1 director cut, i feel it would be a 4 hour extensive and detailed world building
It just gets better every time I go back to the theater...
By and large, I think the changes made for cinematic purposes actually work incredibly well. What really surprised me was the gender swap of Dr. Kynes. It worked out so much better than I ever pictured it.
The reason it doesn't matter is that what the character is and what the character represents isn't tied to gender, that said why change it anyway? I mean we know why it was done but unltimately it doesn't matter.
Where Villeneuve missed a trick with Keynes was the death scene, it was cringe to me, as a long time fan of the book it was weak and just ticked a cliched heroic character death check box, in the book Keynes hallucinates and argues with an image of his father lecturing him even though his fathers image just carries on with his monlogue as he suffers from dehydration and his treatment by the Harkonnens after he is left stranded in the desert, it gives insight into the character and why he went native and what he'd hoped to achieve as Liet, it also gives us insight into the relationship of the worms and spice, it is a brilliantly written piece of the book and very moving in it's own way, Keynes knowing he is going to die, his making peace with it and his relationship with his father, not to mention the desert hawks overhead and the single bird that is gradually getting braver and coming closer to Liet as his death approaches only for it to fly off as the pre spice mass is ready to blow. I get you can't fit it in but it could've added some much needed expostition even in a tighter scene, especially as the movie is crying out for more exposition.
Dune is a lot of things, most of them overwelmingly positve, but as an adaptation, it fails, once the hype dies down and people are more objective it will rightfully recieve recognition for its art design, visuals, and score, but as an adaptation I'm sorry but it's poor, very poor, like most complex literary works a good adaptation is just not on for a movie even two or three, a mini series maybe but not a movie, too many factors stand in the way.
I think it doesn't matter what gender Kynes was, as he/she is in it's truest form (according to the book) a scientist.
I didn't fully like the way Lady Jessica was portrayed in the movie, she was so composed, observant, intelligent, incredibly strong and overall a badass in the book but in the movie I feel like she gave off a different vibe.
Totally agree, in the movie she came off as weak, almost completely dependent on others, not too intelligent and carelessly.
Frank Herbert actually consulted on the David Lynch version. Even though Lynch admits to not reading the book before taking on the project, there was a LOT in that film (the longer version aired on television) that was better than what was represented in the new version, at least when it comes to presenting the vision of Frank Herbert. Simply because the author himself made sure it was there. Sadly, the Lynch version was edited so heavily that a lot of the nuance and details that the book readers would have noticed, got left on the editing room floor. Say what you will about the acting and the special effects, or that fact that Kyle Maclachlan was easily double Paul's age in the book. There were many details that were spot on. Harkonnens having red hair?
I think the new movie is fantastic, but, there was so much time spent just looking at scenery that could have been used adding story that SHOULD have been there.
The party scene, the sealed garden where Jessica finds the note, the explanation of the chrysknife between Jessica and the Shadout Mapes. If this story was about the arrival to the city of Arakeen, there was very little that actually dealt with the storyline of what happened in the setup to Paul's escape to the desert. But we got several loooong, slo-mo shots of spaceships that lasted way longer than necessary. I would have preferred more story in the movie. It's not like he can go back afterwards.
My question then is, if the new version becomes a trilogy, where does Denis split the last 2/3 of the book? I would suggest he make the split at the point of Paul taking the water of life and falling into a coma. Before that point it's all a out Paul becoming a true Fremen and consolidating his leadership. To the point where he's forced to decide whether to challenge Stilgar. But, once he takes the water of life, he transcends that issue to become the Messiah figure. The 3rd film then would be the taking of Arrakis and dealing with the Emperor. It ends the 2nd movie at a "down" place like all great trilogies. The second film ALWAYS ends poorly and in desperation for the protagonist. The third is the triumph.
If this is a 2-parter? There's just NO way to fit all the story that's left in 1 more picture. It would be barely recognizable to those who know the source material. Like watching the old Rankin-Bass cartoon versions of Return of the King and the Hobbit.
I understand why these changes were made. The movie had to be equally good for Dune’s fans as for the larger audience of moviegoers who have not read the series. For example, to understand the existence and full extent of the mentats’ capabilities needs a very complex explanation that would have taken too much time in the movie.
I believe this was the same criterion used to change so drastically the betrayal of Dr. Yueh. Imagine how much time it would have taken to explain the doctor’s imperial conditioning and how it was broken by Peter De Vries, so that Yueh would be able to betray the Duke and his family. The much simpler way that was portrayed in the movie might not be very satisfying for us, Dune avid fans, but it’s much easier to understand that he was being blackmailed and threatened into committing such despicable act.
I know we would have loved to see many of these intricacies and complex plots and subplots on film, but that would have required to make Dune into a series instead of a movie or movie franchise. In fact, I still think that the Dune series and all its stories are better fitted for a series format like GOT. But I’m enormously happy that at least two movies are being made, and that the first excelled my highest expectations. I’m hoping the second one will be as good or, hopefully, even better than the first one.
I agree totally. Though, ten years from now, DV is going to slap his forehead thinking, "I should've added THAT!" Or this, or that.
It's fabulous the way you made it, DV!!
You're not wrong, but as bad an adaptation the Lynch movie was, not to mention just straight up inventing core plot elements, it's the better adaptation for me, the things you mention here are better explained and presented in the Lynch movie, which given that Lynch made the whole book into a movie with a similar runtime is puzzling, after watching the Villneuve movie I rewatched the Lynch movie, which I have to be honest is a gulity pleasure and in isolation it's a good movie, I also rewatched the SYFY mini series, they both beat Villeneuve in adaptation, massively so in the mini series, but the mini series production valuies are to be blunt awful, I'd forgotten how bad the mini series costumes and effects were, compared to the visuals of Villeneuve it was painfully bad, that said it was streets ahead in its adaptation.
After thinking about the Lynch movie adaptation vs Villeneuves adaptation for a while I came to the conclusion that the reason the Lynch version did better was the use of exposition, Virginia Madsens Irulan at the beginning sets up the movie very well and the use of major characters throughout giving their thoughts as exposition worked really well in conveying the ideas and themes, not always, but for the majority it worked really well. In an interview Villeneuve said he wanted the score to be the exposition, and as good as the score is, it is in no way any good at acting as exposition, I don't know why Villeneuve went with this approach, maybe he didn't want to be accused of copying Lynch or he honestly thought the score could do it, it didn't, not even close, he missed a trick here, he missed it huge, it would've added so much more whilst keeping none readers of the book invested as well as fans of the book.
As a movie fan I really loved the film, but as a Dune fan I was very disappointed and in all honesty this was what I expected, I went to see it with my wife and brother, my wife has read the book though she's not a big sci fi fan, my brother hadn't read the book but enjoyed the Lynch movie, they both enjoyed it, very much so in my brothers case, he was blown away, but even he felt something was missing and I had to be his exposition after the fact, while my wife really enjoyed it as well, she's a Villeneuve fan first and foremost, she was disappointed too, one of her favourite parts of the book was the friction between the Baron and Pieter de Vries and after she'd seen pictures of the Stellan Skarsgaard and David Dastmalchian in costume she couldn't wait to see them in the movie, she was really disappointed, I know it would've been impossible to get it all in there, but at least some sort scene must've been doable if only to hint at it, but there was literally nothing, nothing at all, so many characters got this treatment, and yeah none fans wouldn't mind, myself as a Dune fan it really tainted the experience, exposition here could've done so much more. There's so many other things I could pick apart but the film is done, Villeneuve doesn't do directors cuts and has always said that the cut you see is the cut he wanted, I can't help but think there's a way better version on the cutting room floor, that said no amount of exposition can repair the damge done with the writing for Rebecca Ferguson as Jessica, she is a fine actress but the way she was written was terrible, gone is the stoic Bene Gesserit concubine of the Duke of a great house to replaced with, as my wife says, "a hand wringing borderline neurotic who spends a lot of time on the verge of hysteria", maybe a bit harsh but not wholly innaccurate, it even made my wife doubt if Villeneuve is the fan of the books he says he is, she believed she couldn't have been written so badly if it were done deliberately.
I think when it all is said and done it will receive praise for its asthetic and visuals and deservedly so but once the hype dies down and people start to view it with more objectivity it will be criticised for it's poor adaptation. I think a big budget brings a lot of baggage, Dune had nineteen producers, and it shows, maybe with its success Villeneuve will get more freedom and bring the threads together better in the second movie, I really do hope so. I still think his best big movies are Prisoners, Arrival, and Sicario in that order, BR2049 was good and like Dune the visuals did a lot of the heavy lifting but it paid enough respect to the source material and told a solid story, his real skill is with the type of movies his earlier work gave us, Incendies is far and away his very best work, that's where he is a master of his craft. I think even other great driectors like Wes Anderson and Tom Ford would probably struggle with big budgets as it would interfere to much with how they do things, maybe Villeneuve will go back to his earlier type of work, I hope so, he's a great talent.
Apologies for the wall of text.
@@gs8494 I liked the lynch version, except for the versions of the Baron and Rabin (sp?), which was overdone and sort of spoiled the atmosphere. Which was quickly regained. I read the book eons ago, twice, and I wish I still had it, 'cos I don't feel like can comment as well based on long distant memory. I watched the Lynch version twice on HBO over the past 2 weeks or so, and it felt really good seeing it again.
The more recent version by Mr. Villeneuve was just plain refreshing, despite the lacks in the sub-plots, for its organization, pacing, and clarity of transition between scenes gave it a fast-moving action sense even when there was less action and more talk. Well-balanced? Organic?? And, to me, the dialogue content/delivery was also very effective because it was all so well-integrated and very natural-sounding, and not forced. Less dramatic. Which thus didn't take attention away from the main plotline.
I think the balance of action scenes and dialogue brought viewers (read AND unread) easily right into the Dune environment, and thank the gods the baron and children were directed to be a lot more subtle (but still insane). But anyway -- I really have to see DV's movie again. And again, I have a feeling!
And when I ever get the book again, I KNOW I'll be doing the face-palm throughout, so why fret...and, maybe DV will take some of our comments to heart!
@@paulbrinkman5631 I wouldn't wait to long to read the book again and the others, they always hold up well, more so than others, Foundation for one, whilst I do love Foundation it hasn't aged as well, but Herberts Dune and its Universe I think will be timeless, it seems today it's all about subverting expectation, newflash, Herbert did it over 50 years ago with Dune, especially with the brutal deconstruction of Paul in Dune Messiah, the series' themes are relevant in any age, maybe more so today when we are quick to make heroes and villains of people without a second thought to the truth or consequences, that's without even looking at the enviromental themes. I still have hope for the second movie though, I just hope they let Villeneuve do it his way without interference.
Androids are bad, made war with humans, humans win, never make androids or AI again, mentats are used to make calculations... Not to difficult...
The more I watch the enormous amount of Dune content on UA-cam, the more I realize the 2021 film is only a grain of spice in a vast desert of source material and the more I’m worried that the whole story would not be able to be told. I would be overjoyed if we ever receive God Emperor on the big screen.
6 books, more then 2200+ pages... jodorowsky's dune was planed to have 14 hours
Denis only plans to go for a trilogy, and personally I think Messiah is the best to end on anyway. It’s tragic and fitting as an ending for Paul’s story, and it’s also the point where the books are still mostly grounded. Children and after go off the rails with psychedelic, mental, or just plan unrealistic physical things happening, all in ways that would be difficult to carry over to the big screen.
I may be a little biased; I think God Emperor and to an extend Children are the worst of the Dune books, mostly because Leto II is not even really a character, but more of an idea. He’s fascinating conceptually but I never liked or even really related to him, since the books straight up state he’s not even really a person, he’s -a pre-born collective ruled by his own ancestors memories. That’s interesting in the book, but it won’t work in a movie, and that’s disregarding him spewing gibberish as profound societal commentary.
I think Children would also be really difficult, because of the issues with Letos character, and because child actors are difficult to work with, so they’d have to make him older. If they do children, I’d also really hope that they don’t include the scene where putting on the sand trout gives him f*cking superpowers, because for the most part the series is very physically grounded until then. Making him near-invincible because of sand trout I can buy, but it would just be comical to watch a child jump 400 meters in a single bound or throw a 50 ton door at people. If children can handle this right, i could maybe see it, but I still think there’s too much mentally going on to make things clear for a general audience.
But the biggest reason to me is just that I think Messiah is the only clear, final ending for Paul’s story, and he’s the character we actually care about so far. And it’s a fitting and tragic one at that. Every book after that doesn’t have a sense of ending so much as bleeding into a sequel, and for Children and onward to work they’d have to make me care about Leto II.
I completely concur with your observations about what was missing from the film adaptation. Even though whilst watching I was beginning to worry about the excellent dinner scene being omitted entirely, by the time the surprising finale of the film was reached, I understood that these were necessary to support the limitations of adapting such a richly detailed sci-fi novel to screen.
One thing I was not sure was depicted properly in the movie , was the way the Sappho stains on the mentats lips were shown only looking like black squares. Seems like it should look more like it was shown in the 1984 Dune movie.
It is by the juice of Saphoo that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stain, the stains become a warning…. I’ve had that memorized for decades.
Thanks for reminding me of that. I had totally forgotten about the stain upon the lips. That was better portrayed in Lynch’s film. I was also a big fan of Brad Dourif’s portrayal of a slightly unhinged Piter.
@@packratggregory Dourif is amazing in all his roles. I think he fit Piter perfectly.
One thing that I noticed in this movie and it bothered me, was that the Shadout Mapes didn't bloody the Crysknife when she put it back. She gave it to Jessica that way. Otherwise the movie was great.
I would have been happy to sit in IMAX for another 3 hours to get more of this great movie!
I still wonder why Stilgar has a heavy accent, and none of the other Fremen (Jamis and Chani) do not. If they all grew up together, why the difference? Jessica and the Reverand Mother have similar accents, so that is a little more believable.
Probably because Javier Bardem is Spanish and can't disguise his accent.
12:48 I’m inclined to disagree here.
First, I want to point out an error made earlier. Kynes, in the books, is not an offworlder made honorary Fremen. That is his father, Pardot Kynes. He is the son of Pardot Kynes and a fremen woman.
Now, my disagreement. His death was not just Herbert “writing him off”. If was cementing the planet, Dune, as the ultimate unconquerable power in the story. Despite Kynes dedicating his whole life to studying and preparing to change the planet, he was killed by it. Not my hunger and dehydration like you said, but rather, when spice is formed an explosion occurs. The book goes into detail about this, so I won’t, but what you need to know is that Kynes was on top of this “spice blow”. It exploded, and he was killed by the planet. It’s perfect thematically. What happened in the movie was cool, sure, but it was cool and nothing else.
Now, of course, I haven’t read the first book in a while, so if I made an error or if you disagree, let me know.
The only issue that I thought could’ve been easily fixed that I found with the movie, Even though the desert shots are gorgeous it would be incredible if you could see a red glimmer in the shallow parts of Sandune‘s and lightly spread throughout the rest of the sand. I think it would make arrakis feel more alien and magical
Yeah the whole movie seems to be lacking in color. Some shots would have been better with lush vibrant colors.
Also, some visual queues about it being very hot… the dunes don’t look like a hot place despite all the talk about it.
I agree that the change in intro framing was a way to make it more relevant to contemporary audiences. Which is what I liked least about the film compared to the book. I don't have a problem with creative liberties being taken, but imo core themes of a work should be able to stand on their own without pandering to modern prejudices.
Great job! I think when adapting a book with such a rich universe into a film it is crucial to basically cull the content for the sake of a coherent and engaging thread. Unfocussed exploration works in a book, but is detrimental in film, which is more like poetry than prose. We didn't need to see Feyd yet because he was not important to this part of the story and it would've added 'noise'. Something like elaborating on the Mentats must've been a hard call, but I would imagine the conversation went something like "Yes, it's cool, but it doesn't add to our story - as such, let's illustrate it to enrich the world and give a nod to the fans, but not spend time spelling it out for new audiences" - after all, the skill of making good work is just as much about subtraction as it is about addition. If we had an explainer session it would've felt contrived and unnatural. I think that Denis Villeneuve and his team did an amazing job of juggling fan expectations with newcomer engagement. I think there was a vast amount of careful design thinking. This felt like a very tasteful loveletter from a very good filmmaker - respectful and dignified.
I really think they should've emphasized the heat of the planet and the extreme preservation for water more than they did in the film, which is at the forefront sensation of the book. I was honestly confound seeing Paul walk outside with no stillsuit onscreen. I constantly felt thirsty reading the novel, the movie, well, just burned my eyes...
A bullet and birdshot are tools used for different reasons. So is a movie and a novel. Villeneuve used the bullet method. Streamline the plot and move the story forward in a more direct way rather than birdshoting all the intricacies and characters in a massive show of incoherence to nonreaders. Excellent choice by Villeneuve.
Right! I agree ☝️
The trouble is that while it gets the movie in a tighter and compact version, the more complex the source, the more the movie suffers in adaptation, and Dune for all it's stunning visuals and score is a spectacular cinema experience, but the flip side is how poor an adaptation it ultimately is. As a fan of the books I can fill in the blanks but that doesn't mean I'm going to excuse its failings, and it has many of them have no doubt.
So it's just the bare bones and none of the intricate flavors.
@@Shan_Dalamani You have your mind to create all the intricate flavors you like. 😉
@@MrRawnerves I've read all six books multiple times over the last few decades, participated on multiple Dune discussion forums, and ran two of them. I'm familiar with what should be in a film adaptation to do justice to the novel, and Villeneuve's movie isn't it.
Bit surprised that Dr. Yueh wasn't mentioned a single time as I'd say his sudden betrayal in the film, as opposed to knowing he's a traitor from early on in the book, was one the biggest and most drastic of all the changes made for the film. However, It's worth pointing out that WB recently released several photos from deleted scenes and almost all of the have been Yueh related, so this seems to have been an runtime issue and not related to adapting the novel to film. All the other changes mentioned in the video I agree were sensible decisions, but I'm still hoping we'll get an extended cut like LOTR at some point that can flesh out Yueh.
I had no problem with the way they hid Dr Yueh being a traitor. To the uninitiated it came as a shock. They'll probably release those scenes on the blue ray.
I think that Herbert could have made a more Shakespearen attempt to the Drama of why Yueh actually betrayed the house he served, we know why but it was both in the book and in the movie a bit dry for my taste. I just couldn't relate. I mean after all he was conditioned .... so what happened? How deep was that love and what did they actually do to his wife and what not?
List Kynes is not an offworlder. He is the son of Pardot Kynes the first Imperial climatologist sent to Arrakis by Corrino's father.
What about how they cut out the scene about space travel, it’s just a cut scene with no space travel creatures
Really loved the sign language idea
In the book it talks about hand signals. That is actually a better description of what we see in the movie than sign language, which usually involves much more than some fingers moving.
Liet Kynes was the son of Pardot Kynes and inherited his father's post as written in Dune's appendix. Liet was Chani's father and brother to Stilgar. Making him a woman in this latest adaptation was the single greatest change between film and novel. That said, it is understandable to abbreviate some of these character arcs to enhance thematic focus. I have the impression that as a Herbert fan, Villeneuve also read Eye and Chapterhouse. I see both books lending inspiration to the film's stunning visual poetry.
The artwork in _Eye_ is stunning, but that "walking tour of Arrakeen" vignette doesn't take place until Dune Messiah.
i can't agree about changes made in to baron Harkonnen. They totally should make him as unpleasant as he was in book.
10:11 no... just no, that's not why Thufir and the rest believed that, it was because she is a Bene Gesserit, and the mentats are very skeptical of the plottings of the Bene Gesserit for obvious reasons
I had hoped we would get more info during the security briefing, but sadly at the very beginning it immediately jumped to going out to see the spice silos and gear. It need not been 30 minutes long, but a few minutes on threats and security being put in place to deal with them. This is especially important, as the evening of the attack, it almost seems like the only 3 men on duty were those guarding the House shield, as everyone else comes running from the barracks.
I loved the movie, saw it twice on HBO MAX and, the first time with my wife, then with my wife and son, then the three of us to to see it in IMAX this past weekend, and loved it as much, if not more, the third time as the first! 👍
I’m glad to learn that someone who read the book agrees with the choices the director took to introduce a universe that the average person Hasn’t read. TY!
14:31 you made a little mistake. Paul doesn't "give water" to Jamis after killing him in the books either. He does it later, in the funeral ceremony. Which would logically be in the beggining of the second movie, considering this chapter of the book is very important because Paul is accepted among the Fremen at this point.
around 14:40 you discuss Paul not giving water to the dead, but that didn't happen until the "friend of jamis" ceremony once they got back to Sietch Tab'r. Thus, it will ilkely be the first scene of the new movie, perhaps intercut with feyd fighting in the ring.
The only difference I found a shame was Kynes’ death, if only in what get explained there. The movie made it seem Kynes was more of an agent turned native, rather than someone that had a real goal in changing Arrakis.
Well done. I generally agree with your assessment of the differences between book and movie and their worthiness. The one element left out of the movie that I thought would've help round out the development of Paul's character, which you clearly touched on yourself in another video, was the mentat training Paul was receiving from Thufir, along with the Bene Gesserit training he received from his mother, the combat/self-defense training he received from Gurney and Duncan, and the statesmanship training he quite naturally got from his father.
In part 2, I'll like to see a lot of focus on some aspects.
First, I think the movie could now start with a introduction by Princess Irulan, instead of Chani's. I see a astonishing aristrocratic female beauty, making a very cult and lyrical narration of the future. She should be impressive and strongly seductive. A noble and profound figure.
Second, Jamis funeral must be exposed. To display the harsh and severe culture of the Fremen. The importance of water and of strict personality. To consolidate the mutation of Paul to Muadib. And Chani relation should be more developed.
Third, the mentat's and Thufir Hawat role should appear. The incrimination of Lady Jessica of treason of the Atreides House by Thufir and Gurneck must reveal itself.
Fourth, the evil foes.
Feyd Rautha must be portrait as a perfect male body, brilliant, but extremely narcissistic, cold and amoral. A terrible enemy at the level of Paul, a real threatning menace.
House Corrino and the corrupted power of the Imperador with the connection to the Spacing Guild plans to murder Paul, must have it's exposition, of course.
There should be also a exposition of the conection of the culture of people and ecology.
To me, Irulan, Feyd, Thufir, the Imperator, a Space navigator must have a strong role in part 2. I can only hope.
It should be noted that in the book Salusa Secundus was not universally known as the Emperor’s “Army planet”. It was his prison planet. Secretly, the Emperor knew that the harsh climate was the perfect place to raise the toughest soldiers, and this is why the Fremen were even tougher. But the rest of the universe did not know where the Sardaukar came from. Therefore, as awesome as the movie scene was, Piter would not have traveled to Salusa Secondus to meet with the Sardaukar.
Thufir Hawat did not suspect Lady Jessica because she saw her as second-class or servant. It is his job to take into consideration every posibility, no matter how small it is. Actually, Thufir respects Lady Jessica it's just that his training and his duty prevents him to just "belive" in her.
It seems like the presenter in this video didn't even read the book, or just skimmed the Cliff Notes version. He's clueless as to the actual status of Bene Gesserit breeders who are assigned as concubines to various Great Houses. It's actually unusual for a Bene Gesserit to be married. In the entire Dune series there are only three: Margot Fenring, Empress Anirul (Shaddam's wife), and Princess Irulan (who later becomes Empress though Paul refuses to let her bear his heir).
i was completely on board before the prologue was even over due to the shift in focus. when earlier it's been told from the colonisers' perspective, saying "this planet is dangerous and hostile, its resources are very important to us". whereas in villeneuve's version it starts with a fremen saying "this is my home, and it's beautiful".
it's a rather small thing but also significant.
I really like your exposition on the book and the film. A minor fact no one seems to have grasped is the thing with the bull. Duke Leto's father died in a bullfitght. The opponents of the Atreides' are the Harkonnen. The Harkonnen is a non indo-European name Frank Herbert found in a LA phone book while writing the Dune. The name is a Finnish name. In Finland it is written Härkönen. The name comes from the Finnish word for the bull. The bull in Finnish is Härkä. Härkönen - Harkonnen means "that of the bull", or "bullish". Exactly the position the Harkonnens present in the Dune.
The mention of the name "Liet" is supposed to be a secret but she introduces herself that way the very first time we meet her.
A great film. Hard to include the banquet but would have loved to see how this scene might have been treated.
My only complaint with the movie is that it doesn't convey what a hellish world Dune is....nobody would be walking around with any skin exposed except in the sietches. Read the book, people! Guaranteed you won't be able to put it down
FH makes it clear throughout the first three books how critical it is to keep the moisture seals intact in the sietches so moisture doesn't escape and water discipline is enforced. The movies where Fremen wander around outside not wearing a stillsuit and openly panting, wasting moisture, would never happen in the novel.
Here after Part 2 has been released. It's a masterpiece
Rumor is that the banquet scene was shot but left on the cutting room floor. One of my favorite scenes in the book!
Thanks to the earlier adaptation, Vladimir Harkonen apparently just flies now.
Villeneuve's changes to the character of the Baron are the most unforgivable of the mistakes made in this adaption.
I think the most important element in this re-make is that the writer/producer/directors seemed to try to see the results of each scene from the eyes of the audience, so they would be sure the audience would know exactly what was going on, and how the scenes would come across to readers and non-readers of the book alike. Just like reading the book.
I also think that Chani's introduction gave a stronger shot of meaning attribution to the story, rather than Irulan, by setting first off, firm and clear, one of the main, overall themes, from the eyes of the oppressed, thus eliciting a strong dose of SYMPATHY for them--the off-world invaders who have subjugated the fremen's world for hundreds (?) of years, stealing their precious resources; and now, ANOTHER off-world invader has come to TAKE OVER, with uncertainty running afoul over the nature of these new "masters." Anticipation...! Does it ever get old.
The film really needed an another hour
I just wish that firearms and the wide variety of firearms were used in the film as they were in the novel. Firearm use and Sword/Knife use were more balanced out in the novel. I was waiting for the Sardukaur to use the weapons acquired from Richese to counteract the shields. Also the explanation as to why because of the Holtzman shield, that combatants would resort to melee combat. Mainly to avoid the sub atomic reaction that a shield would have after being in contact with an energy blast from a lasgun. That was a huge missed opportunity to explain to people that haven't read the novel that were wondering as to why the Atreides and Harkonnen forces were fighting with swords and knives as Arrakeen was literally being bombarded by spaceships. Who knows maybe if Denis Villeneuve produces an extended cut, he can include the multiuse and simultaneous interchanging of warfare tactics in battle within the Dune universe. Especially during the siege of Arrakeen where many shots were fired on both sides.
So is there any chance of dune getting a proper tv show?
First, I want to say I love the book and I love DV's Dune. I totally understand insisting that the movie be exactly like the book is unreasonable and impossible, but I don't think it wouldn't have taken that long to explain how important Mentats are in the Dune Universe.
I think a few seconds here and there would have helped a lot to understand the universe better.
1 other huge difference is that Fremen travel at night. The fight between Paul and Jamis was in a cave and NOT wearing a stillsuit to evade pointless damage. Caves were water sealed and stillsuits are basicly for fremen what a spacesuit is for an astronaut.
If I recall correctly, the Fremen call away the first worm in the sci-fi channel adaptation.
What bout the reveal that Jessica is the barons daughter while her and Paul are in the tent. I think that's a massive plot point they left out probably for a more dramatic reveal in the second film.
About Paul's visions. On this movie, he clearly see the carnage of the Golden Path. He also clearly see other paths he could take. Most importantly, he sees a path were the dude from the last dual becomes his mentor and friend... and as he move for a higher ground as they are attacked by the Fremen, it is plainly shown that he can't choose all paths,.the first person he have to hit in pursue of higher ground was exactly the dude that will no longer be his mentor and friend... because Paul desarmed him and trew him down in a way that was umiliating to the dude... thus, the dude now demands Paul's water in an attempt to save face. Killing him, was Paul's acceptance of the Golden Path. Beautifully done, even though it is not explicitly on the book.
The dinner scene would have been a great addition to the movie.
Completely disagree with the change to Liet Kynes’s death. The point of that character was to highlight Frank Herberts warning about heroes and charismatic leaders, which Liet falls prey to (“I like this duke”) in spite of his fathers warnings, like he hallucinates during his death. That’s why his death is so tedious and sad in the book. It wasn’t because Herbert was bored of the character, they had a very specific purpose to fulfill. By upstaging Liets death as something more heroic and cool, it undermines the point Herbert was trying to make.
Slingshotya looks good in the intro, I have to admit.
I would have loved (at least) thirty minutes extra in the movie showing (1) the hidden ecological garden and the warning left by Jessica's predecessor on the planet, (2) more of the mentats and Paul's potential, (3) his embrace of his powers to neurotically look for a way to prevent the intergalactic slaughter in the name of Muad'dib and giving the character of Liet more weight. She had a nice send off, but her dream of creating a lush planet and it's complications for the spice production were major plot points in the book which I really liked thematically.
Oh, and I wish they had made Jessica a more powerful character. They really gave in to the portrayal of a sensitive and caring mother, while in the books she is much more of a fierce 'tiger mom'. This added a lot to Paul's initial aversion of his visions and gave context to the extent of the Bene Gesserit's commitment to their plan.
That being said, the movie is one of the best and close to source material sci-fi adaptations I have ever seen on the big screen, can't wait to go to part two next Saturday!
Liet Kynes death was not better in the movie. The chapter where he dies is all about him reflecting on the nature of the planet and him following in the footsteps of his father; because he was born on Arrakis in the book. His death is slow and reflective because he reveres the ecology of the world and has no hate for it even though it is what kills him in the end.
Seems like the take from someone who didn't read or understand the book.
No, the Liet death was better in the book. You missed some of the messaging. You don't learn about his father and his relationship with the planet.. Not giving water for the dead is a missed point that relates how Paul is different than the fermen and they are amazed by it. They look up to him because of it.
They sacrificed story for action. They left out so many key plot points. If I had never read the books, this movie wouldn't motivate me to pick them up.
One thing I never liked about the movies is how they portray the Lady Jessica. In the books she was strong and intelligent. A quiet power under estimated. In the movies she is weak and more dependent on Paul.
Just a multi-verse bleed through that I still find hilarious involving Dune.
"You took Aquaman to a Desert world. What did you think would happen?..."
The narrative calling Liet an offworlder is incorrect. That is more applicable to his father Pardot. Both Kynes married Fremen women and Liet’s mother was from Tabr .
I don't know much about screenwriting but I think DV did a magnificent job with this. Sure, I'd love to see every scene and conversation in the novel played out word for word, as well as some awesome sci-fi action, but I remember Feydakin like myself aren't the only audience for it.
you're absolutely right when you say the movie makes non readers wanna read the book. I just finished the first Dune book cuz the movie was that good
1 the fact spice is necessary for guild navigotors to navigate through foldspace is NOT publically known!
2 Harkonnen uniforms are blue, not black, their heraldic symbol is a griffin, not some abstract horn-symbol 3 yuehs reason for treason was very unclear , controversial and debated in the book, it was not blatant simple blackmail 3 the Sardaukar have long hair 4 the aTREIDES WERE VERY WELL AWARE that arrakis was a deathtrap and the emperor was involved!
Obviously Kynes was a blonde dude in the book...
All in all the movie was VERY faithful to the novel!
No ball room scene! No spys! They changed the harvester rescue scene! Not dune.
The spies were put in place to show just how deep and in everyone's face the rivalry between harkonen and atrates was. Now we just get the attack and one hunter seeker scene.