Hope you enjoy my video talking about some of the moments, characters and storytelling elements of Dune Messiah. How do you think Denis Villeneuve will adapt certain elements?
It will not end like the book, and it will not be sad. It needs to end this version of Dune, NOT anything else. All other objectives are forfeit. It could have content from any of the books. The only goal is to end the movie trilogy.
Just finished the first book and loved it and am reading messiah now and I am definitely happy u made this video cause I have to be honest I am struggling with this read and I understand that major plot points but agree it’s going to need a major adaptation I think u have suggested some real good fixes and approaches so keep it up man I would love even more videos going even more into individual aspects of messiah maybe faction by faction like who the new players will be or even character by character. Keep it up brother
When he is holding court after the plot is revealed. He is telling them what there wearing and how one was always a sloppy dresser with no eyes. I love that part in the book.
I like following the beats of The Godfather. Paul walking into the desert. Alia is now in charge. Alia then takes care of unfinished family business. Ending with Alia on the throne talking to her grandfather.
I just hope we don't have good scenes cut for DEIs needlessly defiant chani scenes😆the fact that we got screwed out of mentat kiwat and pauls jihad in pt 2 for an hour and a half for chani scenes🙄
I think the opening monologue will obviously be a a 3rd quote speaking Sardaukar BUT I think it would bring chills to reveal that it’s been the god emperor this whole time! It’s very Denis to do and such a subtle way ( one example would be how he handled the Padishah emperor in part 1/by other characters describing his power but not showing him) of introducing the ultimate end game which is also how he’s tackled some of the more challenging on screen adaptions of characters, descriptions etc from the book. A simple, seat shaking (in IMAX), powerful “quote” like the other two then “…-The God Emperor” would be fking awesome imo 😅
@@happytrailsgamingwow this reveal is so exciting, I’ve seen the movie in theatres for 7 times and every time it opens with that quote I’m reminding myself, dafuq emperor Leto II would easily speak sadaukar
i really hope Denis doesn’t hold back on the war itself. i want to see the bloodshed that comes from Paul’s decisions. i also would like to the the fremen being extremely brutal. they didn’t just kill soldiers who stood in their way, they killed men women and children, made entire planets uninhabitable with atomics. they literally became space Nazis with Paul as their Hitler and i want to see that. also having Paul capture a sandworm while blind would be so cool i hope they have him do that. and also Paul’s Palace. It’s described in the books as being so big that entire cities could have fit within the walls. that the doors to just the throne room could have fit a cathedral. that once in the throne room the ceilings were so high you could barely make them out and they seemed to go up for eternity. really cool visuals i know the VFX team can pull off.
I think Paul turning Arrakis into a paradise is also framed as a tragedy in Messiah. "Fremen with mud on their shoes." is a line encapsulating that in leading them to conquest he has destroyed the concepts they hold sacred. Water is toxic to Shai Hulud, the only god they pray to.
Children of Dune makes that even more clear, and God Emperor after that. Fremen culture is disappearing rapidly and by Children of Dune, 4k years after Paul, the Fremen culture is gone and the Fremen that are left are peasants compared to their ancestors.
What if we already got a sneak peak with the stone burner could look like, when Paul’s vision of Chani looking at the bomb is the clue. Paul’s vision is the key to everything.
@@GRMNCVSgod, I hope not. That would be so stupid. I'm already kind of disappointed with how much of the weird he took out of the story in the second half. If he tries to avoid the weird in Messiah, it's going to suck.
Love that idea! The stone burner is one of the most epic moments of any book. It makes sense because in that vision it shows him watching the explosion
@@faded1to3black To be honest I could do without horny Reverend Mother and the embarrassing "haha aren't dwarfs funny and silly haha they aren't real human beings they can just be the butt of the joke". Removing some of the more garish content in the books like Landsknecht Sardukar, Welsh flag Atreides flag and garb or ginger Harkonnens did not make the movies suck. Chani not being an airheaded agency-less trophy to Paul did not make the movies suck. I maintain that there is no way to make child Alia murdering the Baron and having intellectual debate ever work on screen. The demon infant body horror was far more compelling than Alia in the books. Also Frank Herbert though a visionary was a frothing homophobe we can leave some of his ideas in the dirt.
@@sbraypaynt Chani isn't an air headed whatever in the books. She just isn't a girl boss, and actually supports and believes in Paul. And she's still tough, killing someone while pregnant because the challenger wasn't even able to defeat her, and therefore wasnt worth even mentioning it to Paul. There's absolutely a way to do Alia properly, and I couldn't care less how many idiots refuse to believe it. That's what movies are for. And modern technology can easily make it work. Prove Herbert was a "homophobe". Is it because the Baron in the books liked to abuse young boys? If that's the only reason, I'm sorry, but that's just absurd. The problem with the movie adaptation isn't even really the stuff you brought up missing. It's the fact that a large chunk of the Fremen culture was stricken away, and they were made into totally egalitarian types, even though Paul "won" Jamis's wife and kids. No water bearers either? No accidental proposal to Chani? No Spacing Guild? In the final scene with the Emperor and Fayd? No Count Fenring? No Thufir Hawat? He was petrified to make it too weird, and by pursuing that, made it too grounded instead. Now Chani took off because "girl boss", even though the way she's written makes no sense in the movie, somehow she will need to get back with Paul so they can have their kids, Messiah *requires* the Face Dancer and Spacing Guild, unless DV is thinking of having Chani lead some anti Paul conspiracy instead, and not bring back Duncan/bring in Hayt as well, which would be utterly catastrophic. Dune needed more actual Dune.
I will be very curious to see several things: 1. The “stoneburner” scene and how they depict that 2. Duncan Idaho as a Ghola - will it be Mamoa? And the eyes? 3. How they introduce the face dancers and Bene Tleilax 4. How they reconcile between Paul & Chani to setup for Leto II & Ghanima 5. How they show the navigators Should be good!
Judging by how much of the odd stuff Denis basically took out of the first book, I'm cautiously optimistic about Part 3/Messiah. I hope he doesn't take out all the cool, weird stuff. And if he doesn't have Paul and Chani get back together, or even worse, has her be involved in the plot against Paul, then there will be effectively no proper adaptation of Messiah, and the 3rd movie is doa.
@@faded1to3black They will get back together, Paul even says after drinking the water of life that Chani will eventually come to understand. They kinda needed to have Chani part with Paul to basically telegraph to the audience that Paul has changed. Its sad but sometimes people need to have it laid out in front of them to understand.
@@ryanhampson673 Chani did not need to leave at the end to "get the point across". It made her look short sighted and selfish. It was the only really weak part. The reason why it isn't necessary to make that change to her character is he intended to adapt Messiah anyway, and it'd be truer to the first book.
@@faded1to3blackif you are talking about the movie…if she would have stayed she would have looked naive, without dignity and spineless, I think it was good change, she will always be short minded on contrast to Paul anyway.
I think the narration in part 3 will be done by Alia. The same way he introduced Irulan in part 2. One different important woman character for each film
I definitely think the 1st act will be heavily padded with scenes depicting the war and its atrocities. It's kind of needed to add a sense of urgency and stakes. I could see either Paul or Alia (or even Irulan) narrating much of this.
the ending of the book(messiah) is very calm and quiet, blue-grey night sky. whispery wind of the desert. that’s all you feel and hear when reading that ending… really hope hans zimmer and villeneuve grasp that ending enough to see that, and fully realize the juxtaposition between the endings of the story of dune vs messiah. the bombastic score worked well for the ending of a dune - book 1 adaptation, but in a messiah adaptation, whether it ends up being paul walking off into the desert, irulan caring for the children, or something more accurate to the book’s ending, regardless, really hope they nail that nighttime quiet ending that the book evokes so enchantingly.
4:35 I totally agree with your theory, I think the possibility of show at least some of the holy war would really add some action to Messiah which leads me to my own theory that Denis isn’t going to call it Dune: Messiah but instead I think he will officially call it Dune Part 3 (I know it sounds silly) but it would give him the freedom of picking up right where part 2 left off (then doing a time jump to go into the Messiah storyline) Denis has proved that he is a master of adapting book to film and has shown that he knows the creative liberties it make it flow best on film... I’m calling it now it will just be called Dune Part 3 ;)
I really wish Denis Villeneuve would (and could) go the 6-7 movie stretch of adapting Children and God Emperor, it'd go down as the most legendary film saga of all time. (expecting God Emperor to take 2 movies and Children could possibly be 1 or 2, not sure tbh.
@@HerrSaturnI beg to differ sir. I think someone could make an incredible adaptation. It would be very very difficult. But I think it could be done. You couldn’t just shoot the book. You’d have to kinda focus more visually on some of the things going on in the background that are only mentioned in the book. But I think there’s enough going on you’d just have to get clever. Will it ever happen? Not sure. Nothings impossible 🤷♂️
What if the Holy War was shown as memories? Flashbacks on different pov's of each character involved. This would cut a lot of dialogue and focus more on the emotion of characters with their facial expressions. The way Denis did through Part One and Two.
I think Paul is not an anti-hero, but an anti-villain. His actions are bad, but underlying them is a better person, as opposed to an unethical person who does good.
I think the problem is trying to tag him, he is just a dude who is trying the least damaging path for humanity. No need to call him hero, antihero or any of those clitches.
I love the Farok scene in the books with Scytale hearing about Jihad from the perspective of someone disillusioned by it. That scene pretty bad in the 2003 adaptation so probably would have to show it visually. Farok might be cut but I hope we can see an adaptation of the moment where the sea heals him from the Jihad, that could work quite well in the opening scene with Alia narrating. This might make it awkward however for the later scene with Scytale and Farok.
I think it could work if Alia gives us the big picture of what’s going on throughout the universe while Farok gives us a personal account of what it’s like to fight in that war.
Denis has earned a lot of trust from me considering the way he handled the first two. In particular, the way he chose to introduce characters and plot lines differently than the book so the viewer isn’t confused. I think he’ll do an excellent job. I also like the ending of Messiah because it gives Paul the freedom to choose his own ending and the peace of death after the unrelenting chaos of his life. Even though he could see into the future all of the paths were so overwhelming that he just wanted to go out as a man and not a god. Brilliant writing. Never could one guess that ending but it’s perfect.
I believe that Denis Villeneuve will adapt some excerpts from Paul of Dune, a story that takes place between the end of Dune and the beginning of Dune Messia
When it comes to Edric and how he will be depicted, I think we can expect something similar to how Dennis handeled the aliens in his film Arrival. He shows the creatures, but not fully, always partly veiled and hidden by the smoke surrounding them. We can only see a crude outline of them, with few details. Edric will be treated the same I think; we see a crude, weirdly shaped creature hidden mostly by the orange spice-gas in his tank, leaving the audience gueassing just how weird this creature actually is without fully revealing him. I think it could be very interesting to have this large, abstract shape, with dark blue glowing spice-eyes peering out from the tank
I just reread "Messiah". My goodness, what a depth of philosophy that novel carries. Hopefully the film will show flashbacks from the jihad, the twelve years that killed 61 billion. Anything from Denis will be good. I pray.
The deletion of the Guild is unfortunate, not only because it ruins so much of the greater plot, but it also removes the importance of Spice itself as the "fuel" needed by the Navigators to allow interstellar travel to even exist. Paul's Jihad would have died on Arrakis if Paul had not taken the Guild hostage and forced them to disburse the Imperial fleet, to lock down and imprison the Empire of Man, and to shuttle his Fremen zealots across the stars to pick off the worlds of the Great and Lesser Houses one by one. Without the Navigators there is no conspiracy, because it is only within their bubbles of (limited) prescience that Paul's vision of all possible realities is blinded.
Profit motivations will not allow this to end with Messiah. The trilogy of Paul's Arch will end, but will provide a runway for additional films... The current brand value of this series is just too much to just walk away from. Messiah will include scenes to foreshadow/hook the audience for further movies.
The films after messiah wont matter. The only ones thatll matter are the ones directed by villenueve and the ones that are carried by pauls character arch…
Profit motivation can quickly destroy the franchise. That’s why denis will not continue directing those. He cares about the art and his career. If we have more films, it will be snider or jj Abram’s converting Leto into a worm. Or perhaps an Amazon original.
I don't think there will be any more films after that. TV series, quite possibly -- the only possible way to proceed after _Messiah,_ I think ... a _really_ freakin weird TV series.
Paul’s story doesn’t end in Messiah and there’s still Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune, new director, new themes, new vibe for Paul’s son, Leto II
This is gonna be a tough one, but I have trust in this Denis. Dune Messiah is definitely the book that most people who have read the series admit to struggling with. It’s very dry compared to the other books. Also, compared to the first book, not a whole lot happens. So I think he set up some interesting things in Dune part two to spill over into Messiah to hopefully bridge some of those gaps. I’m looking forward to it.
I’ve read Messiah with the Dune soundtrack and other selected ambient works that i think fit the story playing in the background and holy shit; just imagining the weird stuff on the story really fits well the mysterious nature of the saga, so ive imagined many settings/artistic direction around the story (spoilers obviously): 1) ive envisioned Chapterhouse Wallach IX, described as a cold world: (“All around the dome lay hills mangy with melting snow which reflected mottled wet blueness from the small blue-white sun hanging at the meridian) settled in jökulsárlón, iceland, with a window opening to the beach, while the conspiration scene between irulan, mohiam, edric and scytale happens inside a black oval construct “Why this particular place? Scytale wondered. The Bene Gesserit seldom did anything casually. Take the dome’s open plan: a more conventional and confining space might’ve inflicted the Guildsman with claustrophobic nervousness”. 2) “The Guildsman was an elongated figure, vaguely humanoid with finned feet and hugely fanned membranous hands-a fish in a strange sea. His tank’s vents emitted a pale orange cloud rich with the smell of the geriatric spice, melange”. I think the design of Edric was insanely good in Lynch’s Dune, however ive imagined him more with the head like a Flowerhorn fish; big headed orange fishes with big eyes and a featured mouth, surrounded a tank literally taken from arrival (i genuinely think Villeneuve is gonna pay hommage to arrival with the edric scenes), also; Paul Dano is the only Edric there can be. 3) ive imagined the Face Dance with Scytale in the middle of the frame while the camera blurs and goes out of focus without unfocusing the background, so it can achieve a blurred effect to achieve the tleilaxu shapeshifting, specially interesting in the scene where the Tleilaxu face dancers do a show for the Emperor 4) it would be so cool if Tleilaxu culture was based on Mayan/Aztec culture; Herbert was vague with his inspiration behind the Bene Tleilaxu specifically, but left subtle hints at this appreciation for mexican culture sensitivites; the suffix “tl” (used predominantly in the náhuatl language) and the axolotl tanks, axolotls being the ultimate mexican endemic animal, also their obsession with changing their human appearance, which artistically can take so much from Aztec and mayan priests and high ranking officials who pierced their noses and ears as a sign of royalty 5) i think the torment behind Paul is what ultimately gonna make Chani go back to him, a much needed plot to portray the complexity of the Jihad and the real emotional toll it has not only in his Atreides side and Harkonnen side, but his fremen side 6) hot take; the Dune Tarot as a tool of mass control is a good concept that i would like to see being portrayed: the implication of the whole Imperium using spice and the tarot as a tool to guard and foresee their own future while disrupting Muad’dib’s full vision is fascinating 7) “The Guildsman stirred and his voice rolled from the glittering speaker globe which orbited a corner of his tank above Irulan”. For some reason, ive imagined Edric to speak in a humming, torturing tone, not saying words but making a sound as if a person was screaming with their lips shut, and after a second, the speaker globe would translate his words. that thought while reading his blunt, direct way of talking make him much more menacing in my imagination. 8) this one is a reach and only because it made me giggle at how extra that was, but Paul saying “once again, the drama begins” while letting Edric and Hayt come into the Golden Lion Throne is so funny to me i hope they leave it in 9) We need at least a little glimpse at Ixian culture and more Great House introductions, this can be achieved with the Holy War plot, really showing the dark side to the Jihad many people forget Villeneuve is insanely good at portraying a plot using visuals only, plus the insanely talented team behind the Artistic direction and writers on his side, i waited for Part Two to come out to finally get to the books (which so far im obsessed with) we can see the biggest trilogy of all time and im all for it.
I don’t know how Jessica would be included without making huge changes to the story. Specially considering how the story between them after messiah develops. Keeping Jessica will be at the expense of Alias character development. I would like to see Alia develop into a crazy witch.
@@superrobby3657 Nothing in his filmography is remotely close to this character. I like Mamoa, but I feel he excels at a specific type of character. It'll be a challenge for him. I hope he pulls it off though!
Can we talk about how much a song of ice and fire was just medieval Dune? The atreides were made the starks with the stark children embodying different aspects from the dune books. Jon’s story following Paul’s following his father’s death. Bran basically becoming the kwisatz haderach to lead the kingdom. Both being huge subversions to the classic fantasy story.
I think Chani is already pregnant at the end of Dune Part Two with the first Leto II and the baby will get killed by soldiers from one of the great houses. Their shared grief will bring them together and make Chani's obsession to give him an heir will have more gravitas
I think the Holy War will take up a good chunk of the final film. Maybe pull an Empire Strikes back and have the Holy War and lead up to it take be the first full act of the movie. First hour will probably be the Holy War and then show the down fall and aftermath.
I think the opening of messiah will be Paul's mother as she was key to starting the war to begin with and her visions of a future with him taking over the empire. I really wonder how far into the war he will cover. Will it get into what happens after Paul dies and his children. These books are crazy intense... and not something you can just jump into without starting from the beginning to understand the progression. I love the adaptation so far and it really has elevated sci-fi in an interesting way. So many different concepts are introduced in these books. I can't wait to see the stream of movies that come in the future due to the success of this series.
I am wondering if Chani and Irulan's roles in the plot might be swapped. With Chani being the one to rebel against Paul (albeit for very different reasons)
Super excited for the possibility of Messiah being adapted to the Movie screen. I hope it is such a success that they keep going! Children of Dune would arguably make an even better movie than Messiah. So much to go on! Long live the fighters 💪
Messiah is very much about Paul navigating the intrigues, traps and futures revealed by his prescient visions and ultimately stepping off the KH train and wandering off into the desert. Paul will do what Villeneuve's Chani did at the end without the worm and it'll be a tear jerker with Chani just gone and him leaving the kids as orphans with Alia. In Messiah Paul isn't controlling the empire for his own sake, he's steering humanity away from extinction. From the very start of Messiah it's clear that the religion has taken on a mind of its own, with a historian on death row being interviewed prior to execution for publishing heresy that we know is closer to the truth than the beliefs of his jailors, Paul is a living Messiah but even he cannot contain his zealots. This was made more explicitly clear in the Dune book than the films. We'll certainly see Hayt (Duncan) and therefore Tleilaxu, and because of that, almost certainly face dancers. Edric will have to be there too I assume, but maybe that'd be too much to introduce in one film without dragging it down in exposition. It will be interesting to see how many plot intrigues Villeneuve keeps and whether he keeps the very strange trigger mechanism of Hayt using Bijaz. The whole plot is bizarre and convoluted but I suppose you can't come at the KH in a straight line. There's lots of unwritten stuff to draw on in a film, the challenge I think is making the strange Tleilaxu plot believable, and conveying Paul's unique situation without him simply bemoaning billions dying repeatedly. Paul's visions of Jamis were well handled before and after their knife fight. It's going to need some deft handling of more prescience in Messiah. There were subtle things you could find in Dune Part Two, like Paul turning back around before the news of the Great Housed rejecting his ascendency to the imperial throne. He knew it was coming. I expect we'll get some of that especially right after the stoneburner as we read in the books. I expect significant alterations in the adaptation.
I am so fascinated by whether we are going to see Leto II in any capacity. Probably as a vision that Paul or Alia sees at the end of the film maybe but im fascinated by it because Leto II is probably the most horrifying consequence of Pauls actions.
In all honesty Denis Villeneuve has made Dune as mordern as we all wanted it to be but how will he adapt the story of the next generation in the dune saga if hes the one to take the colossal task. Paul's son has one of the most fantastical change in character, its even more epic and tragic of a story then what we witness in Paul's.
You pretty much summed up all my opinions on a Messiah adaption. The stone burner scene will probably be the standout. Aside from that, a lot of changes will be necessary for a more cinematic story. I love Messiah as a book, but the story is very much a book story with mostly people talking and pondering about their talking. A movie will require more activity. I also assume Jessica will be in it in a much bigger fashion. That was the one thing I even disliked when reading the book. Jessica's total absence feels very odd and is only somewhat made better by her return in Children.
If he does a movie on what happens between dune and messiah I would think that dune part 3 then dune messiah would be the way to go. With dune part 3 basically being more like fan fiction
I def think the smartest thing to do with Chani and Paul's kids is to helave her pregnant at the end of the second movie, and have Paul's kids already older in Messiah. That would make the ending with Alia as their regent and Paul leaving feel a little more concrete.
I think with HBO doing a tv show will inspire Denis Villeneuve to continue to do more movies after.... this coming 3rd film completing the Paul's Arch.
Dune messiah should be a two part movie. Part 1 should show him conquering planets and the cruelty of his jihad. Part 2 should be the aftermath and him walking into the desert
It might be interesting if he started Dune Messiah with the old, blind preacher from Children of Dune delivering some diatribe against his younger self. Then go back and tell the story, kind of like how Lawrence of Arabia started off with the main character's death.
I think a really poignant and beautiful scene that would be amazing to open with would be when Farok talks about his time on another world during the jihad and his first encounter with an ocean; "There was a sunset," Farok said presently. "One of the elder artists might have painted such a sunset. It had red in it the color of the glass in my bottle. There was gold... blue. It was on the world they call Enfeil, the one where I led my legion to victory. We came out of a mountain pass where the air was sick with water. I could scarcely breathe it. And there below me was the thing my friends had told me about: water as far as I could see and farther. We marched down to it. I waded out into it and drank. It was bitter and made me ill. But the wonder of it has never left me." Scytale found himself sharing the old Fremen's awe. "I immersed myself in that sea," Farok said, looking down at the water creatures worked into the tiles of his floor. "One man sank beneath that water... another man arose from it. I felt that I could remember a past which had never been. I stared around me with eyes which could accept anything... anything at all. I saw a body in the water - one of the defenders we had slain. There was a log nearby supported on that water, a piece of a great tree. I can close my eyes now and see that log. It was black on one end from a fire. And there was a piece of cloth in that water - no more than a yellow rag... torn, dirty. I looked at all these things and I understood why they had come to this place. It was for me to see them."
I think that if they end up wanting a more grounded version of space navigators, it'd be cool if they were to look like "Dune Bane" . With a weird speaker voice and a mask hooked on a spice tank held by suspensors.
Denis has backed himself into a corner with his timeline. If we do the 14 year skip then in this new timeline, Alia is 14 and that won't work. If we do 16 years or more then everyone will have to be aged up a lot. Also Chani is a huge plot point from the beginning so he'll have to just be like "Chani came to her senses and came back between movies".
It would be amazing to see Dune part 3 Showing the planets being destroyed " lead them to paradise " And the holy war as referenced by Jessica. If that is not included the movie is mostly gonna be a slow burn. Basically will be about love and betrayal
I know they'll do a great job. What I care more about is the continuation of the story and this universe. Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune should be a TV series.
The book had some events which were very dramatic and the movies Dune 1&2 was just a story moving alone one event after another with no event having any more impact than another. A beautifully made movie with modern filming, just a story line that failed to deliver drama. Based on this I don’t expect any “intense scenes” in the next part. Maybe I am just to familiar with the Dune story line to be surprised or impacted.
Just finished reading Dune Messiah, This is not an "epic action" novel. It is a story of plotting and intrigue. More about fulfilment of the visions. Some new "exotic" type characters. Very little detail of the battles of the Jihad. Without a lot of embellishment on that it wont sell a lot of tickets. Also too much detail left out of the first two to make the third understandable if one hasn't read the books. Just my thoughts
To me Messiah is such a plot rich book, although is the shortest. It continues with the previous plots and also carries so many pearls for the next long books. It's the perfect bridge. It introduces c Key characters for the lore such as Goulers, Tleilaxu, Facedancers, so on. It's so far, my favorite book of the series (i just ended God Emperor). And with all the changes Denis made to key character, he literally has a gigantic task forward adapting this book and ending a trilogy that has set the bar so high with the first 2 adaptations. Personally, I doubt Duncan Idaho will make a comeback, i really would want Jason Momoa to be back to the saga, but i think in this context, the introduction of a Gouler is not of much relevbace, given that who knows if Denis will even make Chani die giving birth to the twins. (And don't get me started on the huge political agenda Denis has in his adaptations towards the female leads in this book, whom he refuses to use their motherhood as a positive driving force, neither love).
@@yarsivad000.5 You and I think alike in that detail. This idea has come to mind on several occasions; of Chani being the one who ends Paul and ultimately becomes the hero of the story. Let's see what happens. Despite all these changes, I am still very excited, to see it adapted on screen! Let's see what happens !!
If Chani is the one who ends up killing Paul, I'd just walk out of the movie, and pretend there is no part 3. The way he wrote Chani in part 2 was one of the only negatives in the movie.
@@faded1to3black I don’t think she kills him but she will get him to step aside. They are not sweet hearts. No offspring. He has no eyes and walks into the desert-as Freemen do-to die like in Dune Messiah, but unlike Dune Messiah, first he kills his mother or maybe Chani will kill her. This is Denis Dune. Deni loves Frank Herbert’s story except most of the details that make it a complex layered universe and character motivations and the roles they play in the story.
Things I'm really hoping for -Rewriting Chani to be part of the conspiracy despite still loving him would be a devastating plot twist but also could destroy the story so pinch of salt -Considering how dialogue heavy and for the most part spectacle absent the book is (stoneburner and throne room excluded) I'm hoping we get some jump cuts to Jessica on Caladan and I'd love to see footage of Tleilax -Seeing Edric -Scytale using Shishakli's visage in meeting Lichna instead of Duncan Idaho's because 1.She was such a badass standout character and 2.(if i remember correctly) it's a red herring that makes you think "Hayt is not Hayt he's Scytale" which never comes to fruition and gives no suspense because Paul always recognises when someone is a face dancer.
@@paulvajra5945 It will be a bad movie if they invent their own story. Frank Herbert's follow-up takes place 12 years after. This is the story we have from the author.
They didn't know there would be a Messiah adaptation, so probably not. He'd be a fool to decline, though, especially since he'll get a lot more screen time in it.
I want to see Messiah but honestly all the really interesting stuff happens in children of dune. I would love to see a movie adaptation of that. Maybe we will get both
You'll see nothing of the sort. Villenueve has removed anything of interest (spice, time&space bending, hallucinations etc) and left us with a brown sludge of cool CGI.
I know how slim the chances are, but if anyone here has seen Voltron: Legendary Defender, I’d love a duel between Paul and Hayt that serves as the catalyst for Hayt regaining his memories at the end. I’d also love a Rumbling style depiction of the Jihad, just an insurmountable wall of destruction and gruesome violence as the fremen desolate entire worlds in Paul’s name, start off hammering down on the consequences of Paul’s ascension
Messiah is short. Maybe they could combine Children of Dune and Messiah together to really end on a conclusive note. That is if you don't mind warching a four and a half hour long Dune movie. I sure wouldn't.
What I would really like to see in Movies is the continuation: "Frank Herbert's OG Dune series has six books; after he died, his son Brian Herbert teamed up with author Kevin J. Anderson to continue the story, and their collaboration has produced 17 more books set within the Dune world." There is a very rich tapestry of further enlightenment of the whole series which are a wonderful read. I've read them all. One thing I will say, and it is a bit of a spoiler, so look away now: The final end shows a circle back around time, where the machines are back.
The Brian Herbert Dune books are awful. I have read better fan-fiction than those trash books. The characters are shallow and boring, the stories are tedious.
The Syfy Channel mini-series Children of Dune's first episode is very credible adaptation of Dune Messiah. If you have not watched it, I encourage you to (there is a copy on youtube, though you should seek out the proper subtitles when the BG are using sign language). It's a great step up from their Dune adaptation, stands up to viewing today, and is interesting to compare to the speculation of how adaptation would be done as proposed in this video.
4:07 is there a different version of this? While my book opens with "Analysis of history: Muad' dib by Bronso of Ix" it doesn’t have the Q and A section detail his interogation as you described - I'm halfway through the book aswell and yet to come across it?
I was terrified Dune would be carried on into the other books but with lower budgets with lesser directors mostly as a cash grab. This popping up in my recommendeds calmed my anxiety. Disclosure: I've not read the books. I tried as an older teen decades ago, but this level of detailed world building was always impossible for me. Oh well, back to listening to you talk
Im really looking forward the most for how they will visually adapt scytale, edric, hait and the stone burner scene, and pauls apperance after that. This movie has potencial to be such an great and diviseve ending. Hope denny can find the right script to make it finish the story as a trilogy without having to change or cut to much of the book. Im still very sad that we didnt get the dinner scene in arrakina in the first movie and hope we have at least a few scenes of the holy war and the fremen with that awesome armour we saw in part one, but deffinetly dont think its needed to add to much action, just because it will diviate too much of the scource material. I have read only dune and dune messiah and i think messiah its even better then dune, altough i have struglled to understand some of the writing of frank herbert, great novel though
This is good. There going to have to change a bit and maybe add some of Children of Dune. Most people think Dune Messiah is the worst and it took me awhile to get through the shortest book. It is good but not the first or next books. Also a lack of action would be a problem.
The ending of DUNE was already altered by Villeneuve, So thinking that Villeneuve keeping to the story line DUNE Messiah is really just a guess. Verhoeven ruined StarShip Troopers; so there is a huge range of possible adaptions.
I hope that the studio greed for continuations don´t let Dennis changing the end of Paul to artistic ends. Remember the crap Lynch end when rains in Dune...
I think Vllleneuve is going to completely change the storyline. Paul has the children with Irulan but secretly still loves Chani. He has agents searching for her on Arrakis. Chani is part of the conspiracy to take him down, but after he is blinded, she realizes she still loves him. They find each other and Paul gives up the throne and walks off into the distance with Chani.
Are we sure it’s just going to be a trilogy? Knowing the books, I wonder and kinda hope that we’ll move beyond Paul’s story, especially since other characters have plenty to do after Messiah
D. U. N. E. = Dune Part 1: D. "Dreams" (Chani Kynes opening narration) / Dune Part 2: U. "Uprising" (Princess Irulan opening narration) // Messiah Part 1 (Dune Part 3): N. "Nightmares" (Lady Jessica opening narration) / Messiah Part 2 (Dune Part 4): E. "Eclipsing" (Lia Atreides opening narration) = D. U. N. E.
Hope you enjoy my video talking about some of the moments, characters and storytelling elements of Dune Messiah. How do you think Denis Villeneuve will adapt certain elements?
i really hate you POV on the movies, its shallow, sad and cultish like a snyderfan
It will not end like the book, and it will not be sad. It needs to end this version of Dune, NOT anything else. All other objectives are forfeit. It could have content from any of the books. The only goal is to end the movie trilogy.
Just finished the first book and loved it and am reading messiah now and I am definitely happy u made this video cause I have to be honest I am struggling with this read and I understand that major plot points but agree it’s going to need a major adaptation I think u have suggested some real good fixes and approaches so keep it up man I would love even more videos going even more into individual aspects of messiah maybe faction by faction like who the new players will be or even character by character. Keep it up brother
@@tahnadana5435 Have you ever thought about bathing and leaving your mom's basement occasionally? You'll feel much less grumpy, I promise!
cant wait to see paul pointing and directing people and actually seeing the awe on their face whilst his eyes are gone
That's what I'm looking forward to most!!
@SlimJimLimmmy thoughts exactly.
@SlimJimLimm Nearly every sci-fi or fantasy novel/movie has.
When he is holding court after the plot is revealed. He is telling them what there wearing and how one was always a sloppy dresser with no eyes. I love that part in the book.
@@wisdomit429 literally giving them no choice but to fear the kwisatz haderach
When Paul said "I don't want to be Dune Messiah anymore" as he walks off into the desert while Guts' theme is playing I cried
... sorry one!
I personally think a fade to black as Paul walks off into the desert is a perfect note to end the series on
To be honest, that has gone through my mind too. I would not be surprised. After all, Villeneuve's trilogy is his arc.
I like following the beats of The Godfather. Paul walking into the desert. Alia is now in charge. Alia then takes care of unfinished family business. Ending with Alia on the throne talking to her grandfather.
His road leads into the desert….he can see it. 👍
I just hope we don't have good scenes cut for DEIs needlessly defiant chani scenes😆the fact that we got screwed out of mentat kiwat and pauls jihad in pt 2 for an hour and a half for chani scenes🙄
@@antonioramirez3676 L take. The Jihad isn’t even shown in the book and there is no character named Mentat Kiwat so idk what you’re even talking about
Alia will absolutely open the film with a monologue, not Paul.
It would be a nice continuity since both films opened with a female character
I think the opening monologue will obviously be a a 3rd quote speaking Sardaukar BUT I think it would bring chills to reveal that it’s been the god emperor this whole time! It’s very Denis to do and such a subtle way ( one example would be how he handled the Padishah emperor in part 1/by other characters describing his power but not showing him) of introducing the ultimate end game which is also how he’s tackled some of the more challenging on screen adaptions of characters, descriptions etc from the book. A simple, seat shaking (in IMAX), powerful “quote” like the other two then “…-The God Emperor” would be fking awesome imo 😅
itd hit home if it was paul or god emperor
@@happytrailsgamingwow this reveal is so exciting, I’ve seen the movie in theatres for 7 times and every time it opens with that quote I’m reminding myself, dafuq emperor Leto II would easily speak sadaukar
That's exactly what I'm predicting. That or chani
About Edric, did we forget Villeneuve directed Arrival? He's no stranger to strane alien creatures behind glass. It'll be a spectacle.
Doug Jones as Edric. Calling it now.
Or he will just cut him out. He was not crucial to the plot and only appeared twice
Right? Strangeness is something he does not shy from. Can def see a spice addicted weirdo in a tank.
Yea Edric alrdy looks like something from a DV movie
i really hope Denis doesn’t hold back on the war itself. i want to see the bloodshed that comes from Paul’s decisions. i also would like to the the fremen being extremely brutal. they didn’t just kill soldiers who stood in their way, they killed men women and children, made entire planets uninhabitable with atomics. they literally became space Nazis with Paul as their Hitler and i want to see that.
also having Paul capture a sandworm while blind would be so cool i hope they have him do that.
and also Paul’s Palace. It’s described in the books as being so big that entire cities could have fit within the walls. that the doors to just the throne room could have fit a cathedral. that once in the throne room the ceilings were so high you could barely make them out and they seemed to go up for eternity. really cool visuals i know the VFX team can pull off.
I like your ideas
Hope you’re not disappointed when they tell the whole story of the war through flashbacks or brief mentioning of it
@@GaaraFPS i don’t care if you don’t believe! i believe!
@@randomknowledgeperson2872 the book is literally a time skip…
@@GaaraFPS that’s not an issue. they can still show atrocities during a flashback. it doesn’t have to be a whole drawn out thing
I think Paul turning Arrakis into a paradise is also framed as a tragedy in Messiah.
"Fremen with mud on their shoes." is a line encapsulating that in leading them to conquest he has destroyed the concepts they hold sacred. Water is toxic to Shai Hulud, the only god they pray to.
Children of Dune makes that even more clear, and God Emperor after that. Fremen culture is disappearing rapidly and by Children of Dune, 4k years after Paul, the Fremen culture is gone and the Fremen that are left are peasants compared to their ancestors.
What if we already got a sneak peak with the stone burner could look like, when Paul’s vision of Chani looking at the bomb is the clue. Paul’s vision is the key to everything.
I wonder if he'll skip the stoneburner by Paul getting blind after (maybe) getting irradiated by watching the atomic explosion in Part 2?
@@GRMNCVSgod, I hope not. That would be so stupid. I'm already kind of disappointed with how much of the weird he took out of the story in the second half. If he tries to avoid the weird in Messiah, it's going to suck.
Love that idea! The stone burner is one of the most epic moments of any book. It makes sense because in that vision it shows him watching the explosion
@@faded1to3black
To be honest I could do without horny Reverend Mother and the embarrassing "haha aren't dwarfs funny and silly haha they aren't real human beings they can just be the butt of the joke".
Removing some of the more garish content in the books like Landsknecht Sardukar, Welsh flag Atreides flag and garb or ginger Harkonnens did not make the movies suck.
Chani not being an airheaded agency-less trophy to Paul did not make the movies suck.
I maintain that there is no way to make child Alia murdering the Baron and having intellectual debate ever work on screen. The demon infant body horror was far more compelling than Alia in the books.
Also Frank Herbert though a visionary was a frothing homophobe we can leave some of his ideas in the dirt.
@@sbraypaynt Chani isn't an air headed whatever in the books. She just isn't a girl boss, and actually supports and believes in Paul. And she's still tough, killing someone while pregnant because the challenger wasn't even able to defeat her, and therefore wasnt worth even mentioning it to Paul.
There's absolutely a way to do Alia properly, and I couldn't care less how many idiots refuse to believe it. That's what movies are for. And modern technology can easily make it work.
Prove Herbert was a "homophobe". Is it because the Baron in the books liked to abuse young boys? If that's the only reason, I'm sorry, but that's just absurd.
The problem with the movie adaptation isn't even really the stuff you brought up missing. It's the fact that a large chunk of the Fremen culture was stricken away, and they were made into totally egalitarian types, even though Paul "won" Jamis's wife and kids. No water bearers either? No accidental proposal to Chani?
No Spacing Guild? In the final scene with the Emperor and Fayd? No Count Fenring? No Thufir Hawat? He was petrified to make it too weird, and by pursuing that, made it too grounded instead. Now Chani took off because "girl boss", even though the way she's written makes no sense in the movie, somehow she will need to get back with Paul so they can have their kids, Messiah *requires* the Face Dancer and Spacing Guild, unless DV is thinking of having Chani lead some anti Paul conspiracy instead, and not bring back Duncan/bring in Hayt as well, which would be utterly catastrophic. Dune needed more actual Dune.
I will be very curious to see several things:
1. The “stoneburner” scene and how they depict that
2. Duncan Idaho as a Ghola - will it be Mamoa? And the eyes?
3. How they introduce the face dancers and Bene Tleilax
4. How they reconcile between Paul & Chani to setup for Leto II & Ghanima
5. How they show the navigators
Should be good!
its insane when i listened to the audiobook mamoa really fits the name of a ghola he can be comforting but so scary at the same time
Judging by how much of the odd stuff Denis basically took out of the first book, I'm cautiously optimistic about Part 3/Messiah. I hope he doesn't take out all the cool, weird stuff. And if he doesn't have Paul and Chani get back together, or even worse, has her be involved in the plot against Paul, then there will be effectively no proper adaptation of Messiah, and the 3rd movie is doa.
@@faded1to3black They will get back together, Paul even says after drinking the water of life that Chani will eventually come to understand. They kinda needed to have Chani part with Paul to basically telegraph to the audience that Paul has changed. Its sad but sometimes people need to have it laid out in front of them to understand.
@@ryanhampson673 Chani did not need to leave at the end to "get the point across". It made her look short sighted and selfish. It was the only really weak part. The reason why it isn't necessary to make that change to her character is he intended to adapt Messiah anyway, and it'd be truer to the first book.
@@faded1to3blackif you are talking about the movie…if she would have stayed she would have looked naive, without dignity and spineless, I think it was good change, she will always be short minded on contrast to Paul anyway.
I think the narration in part 3 will be done by Alia. The same way he introduced Irulan in part 2. One different important woman character for each film
And plus, the first two Dune books were stories told OF Paul Muad'Dib, not told BY him.
I definitely think the 1st act will be heavily padded with scenes depicting the war and its atrocities. It's kind of needed to add a sense of urgency and stakes. I could see either Paul or Alia (or even Irulan) narrating much of this.
Agree. Or they’ll be scattered as flashbacks throughout
I’m thinking it’ll be flashbacks.
I agree. I feel like we'll see a lot of the war that wasn't explicitly depicted in the book.
the ending of the book(messiah) is very calm and quiet, blue-grey night sky. whispery wind of the desert. that’s all you feel and hear when reading that ending… really hope hans zimmer and villeneuve grasp that ending enough to see that, and fully realize the juxtaposition between the endings of the story of dune vs messiah. the bombastic score worked well for the ending of a dune - book 1 adaptation, but in a messiah adaptation, whether it ends up being paul walking off into the desert, irulan caring for the children, or something more accurate to the book’s ending, regardless, really hope they nail that nighttime quiet ending that the book evokes so enchantingly.
4:35 I totally agree with your theory, I think the possibility of show at least some of the holy war would really add some action to Messiah which leads me to my own theory that Denis isn’t going to call it Dune: Messiah but instead I think he will officially call it Dune Part 3 (I know it sounds silly) but it would give him the freedom of picking up right where part 2 left off (then doing a time jump to go into the Messiah storyline) Denis has proved that he is a master of adapting book to film and has shown that he knows the creative liberties it make it flow best on film... I’m calling it now it will just be called Dune Part 3 ;)
Imagine they roll credits through Paul walking off into the desert until he disappears over the horizon
I really wish Denis Villeneuve would (and could) go the 6-7 movie stretch of adapting Children and God Emperor, it'd go down as the most legendary film saga of all time. (expecting God Emperor to take 2 movies and Children could possibly be 1 or 2, not sure tbh.
While I really would love to see that, I don't see God Emperor as movie, half of the book is Leto II inner dialogue .. well we never know. :D
@@HerrSaturnI’m not familiar with the book, but what about a tv show on hbo max?
Me too 😩😩 I just want to explore so much more of this universe. It’s so intriguing.
@@HerrSaturnI beg to differ sir. I think someone could make an incredible adaptation. It would be very very difficult. But I think it could be done. You couldn’t just shoot the book. You’d have to kinda focus more visually on some of the things going on in the background that are only mentioned in the book. But I think there’s enough going on you’d just have to get clever. Will it ever happen? Not sure. Nothings impossible 🤷♂️
Im almost certain the studio will force it to happen...if he stays on to write/direct is another question
What if the Holy War was shown as memories? Flashbacks on different pov's of each character involved. This would cut a lot of dialogue and focus more on the emotion of characters with their facial expressions. The way Denis did through Part One and Two.
Now that has real possiblities
Yes, like the old fremen warrior that describes seeing the ocean while on the jihad.
I think Paul is not an anti-hero, but an anti-villain. His actions are bad, but underlying them is a better person, as opposed to an unethical person who does good.
I think the problem is trying to tag him, he is just a dude who is trying the least damaging path for humanity. No need to call him hero, antihero or any of those clitches.
I really hope that Cillian Murphy gets cast as a Tleilax
Well done Cortex. Can’t wait. So many good ideas in the comments.
Ooh. As Scytale?
@@spencertherren6806 yup! Wouldn’t that be awesome!
@@UltraDoug He's my favorite actor. By miles.
@@spencertherren6806 same. Cillian is right up there with Daniel Day Lewis.
Ah yes another video on my favorite sci-fi franchise, "June".
So wivout furver ajew, June.
It’s how a lot of people from England would pronounce it. Australia as well. They would also pronounce duress like juress. No hard D (😁).
it will be a long excruciating wait for the third movie, thanks for the preview ideas
I love the Farok scene in the books with Scytale hearing about Jihad from the perspective of someone disillusioned by it. That scene pretty bad in the 2003 adaptation so probably would have to show it visually. Farok might be cut but I hope we can see an adaptation of the moment where the sea heals him from the Jihad, that could work quite well in the opening scene with Alia narrating. This might make it awkward however for the later scene with Scytale and Farok.
I think it could work if Alia gives us the big picture of what’s going on throughout the universe while Farok gives us a personal account of what it’s like to fight in that war.
Denis has earned a lot of trust from me considering the way he handled the first two. In particular, the way he chose to introduce characters and plot lines differently than the book so the viewer isn’t confused. I think he’ll do an excellent job.
I also like the ending of Messiah because it gives Paul the freedom to choose his own ending and the peace of death after the unrelenting chaos of his life. Even though he could see into the future all of the paths were so overwhelming that he just wanted to go out as a man and not a god. Brilliant writing. Never could one guess that ending but it’s perfect.
I believe that Denis Villeneuve will adapt some excerpts from Paul of Dune, a story that takes place between the end of Dune and the beginning of Dune Messia
When it comes to Edric and how he will be depicted, I think we can expect something similar to how Dennis handeled the aliens in his film Arrival. He shows the creatures, but not fully, always partly veiled and hidden by the smoke surrounding them. We can only see a crude outline of them, with few details. Edric will be treated the same I think; we see a crude, weirdly shaped creature hidden mostly by the orange spice-gas in his tank, leaving the audience gueassing just how weird this creature actually is without fully revealing him. I think it could be very interesting to have this large, abstract shape, with dark blue glowing spice-eyes peering out from the tank
I'm just excited to see my boy Edric in a movie. I love the existential fish man.
The way Denis Villeneuve dealt with Dune part one is all the proof I need to know that Dune Messiah is in great hands
Dune will surpass any new or old cosmic science fiction fantasy! Dune has become HISTORY!
I just reread "Messiah". My goodness, what a depth of philosophy that novel carries. Hopefully the film will show flashbacks from the jihad, the twelve years that killed 61 billion. Anything from Denis will be good. I pray.
The deletion of the Guild is unfortunate, not only because it ruins so much of the greater plot, but it also removes the importance of Spice itself as the "fuel" needed by the Navigators to allow interstellar travel to even exist. Paul's Jihad would have died on Arrakis if Paul had not taken the Guild hostage and forced them to disburse the Imperial fleet, to lock down and imprison the Empire of Man, and to shuttle his Fremen zealots across the stars to pick off the worlds of the Great and Lesser Houses one by one. Without the Navigators there is no conspiracy, because it is only within their bubbles of (limited) prescience that Paul's vision of all possible realities is blinded.
They didn't really delete the Guild, they're mentioned in part one. There are no navigators (in the mutated fish sense) in the first book anyway.
-cant wait for the training dummy scene-
Can’t wait for them to cut that
Profit motivations will not allow this to end with Messiah. The trilogy of Paul's Arch will end, but will provide a runway for additional films... The current brand value of this series is just too much to just walk away from. Messiah will include scenes to foreshadow/hook the audience for further movies.
The films after messiah wont matter. The only ones thatll matter are the ones directed by villenueve and the ones that are carried by pauls character arch…
Profit motivation can quickly destroy the franchise. That’s why denis will not continue directing those. He cares about the art and his career. If we have more films, it will be snider or jj Abram’s converting Leto into a worm. Or perhaps an Amazon original.
Another visionary filmmaker should pick up the torch and continue to story.
I don't think there will be any more films after that. TV series, quite possibly -- the only possible way to proceed after _Messiah,_ I think ... a _really_ freakin weird TV series.
Paul’s story doesn’t end in Messiah and there’s still Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune, new director, new themes, new vibe for Paul’s son, Leto II
This is gonna be a tough one, but I have trust in this Denis. Dune Messiah is definitely the book that most people who have read the series admit to struggling with. It’s very dry compared to the other books. Also, compared to the first book, not a whole lot happens. So I think he set up some interesting things in Dune part two to spill over into Messiah to hopefully bridge some of those gaps. I’m looking forward to it.
Maybe a combination of Messiah and Children of Dune.
I’ve read Messiah with the Dune soundtrack and other selected ambient works that i think fit the story playing in the background and holy shit; just imagining the weird stuff on the story really fits well the mysterious nature of the saga, so ive imagined many settings/artistic direction around the story (spoilers obviously):
1) ive envisioned Chapterhouse Wallach IX, described as a cold world: (“All around the dome lay hills mangy with melting snow which reflected mottled wet blueness from the small blue-white sun hanging at the meridian) settled in jökulsárlón, iceland, with a window opening to the beach, while the conspiration scene between irulan, mohiam, edric and scytale happens inside a black oval construct “Why this particular place? Scytale wondered. The Bene Gesserit seldom did anything casually. Take the dome’s open plan: a more conventional and confining space might’ve inflicted the Guildsman with claustrophobic nervousness”.
2) “The Guildsman was an elongated figure, vaguely humanoid with finned feet and hugely fanned membranous hands-a fish in a strange sea. His tank’s vents emitted a pale orange cloud rich with the smell of the geriatric spice, melange”. I think the design of Edric was insanely good in Lynch’s Dune, however ive imagined him more with the head like a Flowerhorn fish; big headed orange fishes with big eyes and a featured mouth, surrounded a tank literally taken from arrival (i genuinely think Villeneuve is gonna pay hommage to arrival with the edric scenes), also; Paul Dano is the only Edric there can be.
3) ive imagined the Face Dance with Scytale in the middle of the frame while the camera blurs and goes out of focus without unfocusing the background, so it can achieve a blurred effect to achieve the tleilaxu shapeshifting, specially interesting in the scene where the Tleilaxu face dancers do a show for the Emperor
4) it would be so cool if Tleilaxu culture was based on Mayan/Aztec culture; Herbert was vague with his inspiration behind the Bene Tleilaxu specifically, but left subtle hints at this appreciation for mexican culture sensitivites; the suffix “tl” (used predominantly in the náhuatl language) and the axolotl tanks, axolotls being the ultimate mexican endemic animal, also their obsession with changing their human appearance, which artistically can take so much from Aztec and mayan priests and high ranking officials who pierced their noses and ears as a sign of royalty
5) i think the torment behind Paul is what ultimately gonna make Chani go back to him, a much needed plot to portray the complexity of the Jihad and the real emotional toll it has not only in his Atreides side and Harkonnen side, but his fremen side
6) hot take; the Dune Tarot as a tool of mass control is a good concept that i would like to see being portrayed: the implication of the whole Imperium using spice and the tarot as a tool to guard and foresee their own future while disrupting Muad’dib’s full vision is fascinating
7) “The Guildsman stirred and his voice rolled from the glittering speaker globe which orbited a corner of his tank above Irulan”. For some reason, ive imagined Edric to speak in a humming, torturing tone, not saying words but making a sound as if a person was screaming with their lips shut, and after a second, the speaker globe would translate his words. that thought while reading his blunt, direct way of talking make him much more menacing in my imagination.
8) this one is a reach and only because it made me giggle at how extra that was, but Paul saying “once again, the drama begins” while letting Edric and Hayt come into the Golden Lion Throne is so funny to me i hope they leave it in
9) We need at least a little glimpse at Ixian culture and more Great House introductions, this can be achieved with the Holy War plot, really showing the dark side to the Jihad
many people forget Villeneuve is insanely good at portraying a plot using visuals only, plus the insanely talented team behind the Artistic direction and writers on his side, i waited for Part Two to come out to finally get to the books (which so far im obsessed with) we can see the biggest trilogy of all time and im all for it.
I don’t know how Jessica would be included without making huge changes to the story. Specially considering how the story between them after messiah develops. Keeping Jessica will be at the expense of Alias character development. I would like to see Alia develop into a crazy witch.
I like Jason Mamoa, but I have significant doubts he can pull off the Hayt character
Idk I think it’s kinda rude if you aren’t an actor yourself to make this type of statement. Mamoa has proven himself.
@@superrobby3657 Nothing in his filmography is remotely close to this character. I like Mamoa, but I feel he excels at a specific type of character. It'll be a challenge for him. I hope he pulls it off though!
Waiting for the price to come down on Prime before watching part 2
although soaper didn’t have the fremen subtitles when i tried to watch it, lookmovie does have the fremen subtitles
Just torrent it dude.
Can we talk about how much a song of ice and fire was just medieval Dune? The atreides were made the starks with the stark children embodying different aspects from the dune books. Jon’s story following Paul’s following his father’s death. Bran basically becoming the kwisatz haderach to lead the kingdom. Both being huge subversions to the classic fantasy story.
I think Chani is already pregnant at the end of Dune Part Two with the first Leto II and the baby will get killed by soldiers from one of the great houses. Their shared grief will bring them together and make Chani's obsession to give him an heir will have more gravitas
Hoping Alia Atreides gets more screentime
And i am not say that because i am a big fan of Anya Taylor-Joy
In Dennis we trust
Can’t wait to see what the world denis envisions looks like😮
I think the Holy War will take up a good chunk of the final film. Maybe pull an Empire Strikes back and have the Holy War and lead up to it take be the first full act of the movie. First hour will probably be the Holy War and then show the down fall and aftermath.
I think the opening of messiah will be Paul's mother as she was key to starting the war to begin with and her visions of a future with him taking over the empire. I really wonder how far into the war he will cover. Will it get into what happens after Paul dies and his children. These books are crazy intense... and not something you can just jump into without starting from the beginning to understand the progression. I love the adaptation so far and it really has elevated sci-fi in an interesting way. So many different concepts are introduced in these books. I can't wait to see the stream of movies that come in the future due to the success of this series.
I am wondering if Chani and Irulan's roles in the plot might be swapped. With Chani being the one to rebel against Paul (albeit for very different reasons)
That would be so sad but would definitely make Chanis character more interesting
Super excited for the possibility of Messiah being adapted to the Movie screen. I hope it is such a success that they keep going! Children of Dune would arguably make an even better movie than Messiah. So much to go on! Long live the fighters 💪
Irulan, Chani, Alia, and Jessica. It'll be a total babefest 😅. Hopefully Paul has a prominent role.
among the best books i ve ever read . the dune books
Messiah is very much about Paul navigating the intrigues, traps and futures revealed by his prescient visions and ultimately stepping off the KH train and wandering off into the desert. Paul will do what Villeneuve's Chani did at the end without the worm and it'll be a tear jerker with Chani just gone and him leaving the kids as orphans with Alia. In Messiah Paul isn't controlling the empire for his own sake, he's steering humanity away from extinction. From the very start of Messiah it's clear that the religion has taken on a mind of its own, with a historian on death row being interviewed prior to execution for publishing heresy that we know is closer to the truth than the beliefs of his jailors, Paul is a living Messiah but even he cannot contain his zealots. This was made more explicitly clear in the Dune book than the films. We'll certainly see Hayt (Duncan) and therefore Tleilaxu, and because of that, almost certainly face dancers. Edric will have to be there too I assume, but maybe that'd be too much to introduce in one film without dragging it down in exposition. It will be interesting to see how many plot intrigues Villeneuve keeps and whether he keeps the very strange trigger mechanism of Hayt using Bijaz. The whole plot is bizarre and convoluted but I suppose you can't come at the KH in a straight line. There's lots of unwritten stuff to draw on in a film, the challenge I think is making the strange Tleilaxu plot believable, and conveying Paul's unique situation without him simply bemoaning billions dying repeatedly. Paul's visions of Jamis were well handled before and after their knife fight. It's going to need some deft handling of more prescience in Messiah. There were subtle things you could find in Dune Part Two, like Paul turning back around before the news of the Great Housed rejecting his ascendency to the imperial throne. He knew it was coming. I expect we'll get some of that especially right after the stoneburner as we read in the books. I expect significant alterations in the adaptation.
I am so fascinated by whether we are going to see Leto II in any capacity. Probably as a vision that Paul or Alia sees at the end of the film maybe but im fascinated by it because Leto II is probably the most horrifying consequence of Pauls actions.
If the ending is the same as the book, we'll get a good glimpse at the horror of Leto II (and Ghanima, really)
This one might be a tough to do . Alot of things were going on in messiah. Alot
I think Alia will narrate the prologue
If Denis wants the true blockbuster, the key is Alia. Her story will blow an audience awasy. Then bring on the stoneburners.
In all honesty Denis Villeneuve has made Dune as mordern as we all wanted it to be but how will he adapt the story of the next generation in the dune saga if hes the one to take the colossal task. Paul's son has one of the most fantastical change in character, its even more epic and tragic of a story then what we witness in Paul's.
You pretty much summed up all my opinions on a Messiah adaption. The stone burner scene will probably be the standout. Aside from that, a lot of changes will be necessary for a more cinematic story. I love Messiah as a book, but the story is very much a book story with mostly people talking and pondering about their talking. A movie will require more activity. I also assume Jessica will be in it in a much bigger fashion. That was the one thing I even disliked when reading the book. Jessica's total absence feels very odd and is only somewhat made better by her return in Children.
If he does a movie on what happens between dune and messiah I would think that dune part 3 then dune messiah would be the way to go. With dune part 3 basically being more like fan fiction
Chani and Paul will not be separated for 12 years to have her suddenly come running back
I def think the smartest thing to do with Chani and Paul's kids is to helave her pregnant at the end of the second movie, and have Paul's kids already older in Messiah.
That would make the ending with Alia as their regent and Paul leaving feel a little more concrete.
I think with HBO doing a tv show will inspire Denis Villeneuve to continue to do more movies after.... this coming 3rd film completing the Paul's Arch.
Dune messiah should be a two part movie. Part 1 should show him conquering planets and the cruelty of his jihad. Part 2 should be the aftermath and him walking into the desert
It might be interesting if he started Dune Messiah with the old, blind preacher from Children of Dune delivering some diatribe against his younger self. Then go back and tell the story, kind of like how Lawrence of Arabia started off with the main character's death.
I think a really poignant and beautiful scene that would be amazing to open with would be when Farok talks about his time on another world during the jihad and his first encounter with an ocean;
"There was a sunset," Farok said presently. "One of the elder artists might have painted such a sunset. It had red in it the color of the glass in my bottle. There was gold... blue. It was on the world they call Enfeil, the one where I led my legion to victory. We came out of a mountain pass where the air was sick with water. I could scarcely breathe it. And there below me was the thing my friends had told me about: water as far as I could see and farther. We marched down to it. I waded out into it and drank. It was bitter and made me ill. But the wonder of it has never left me."
Scytale found himself sharing the old Fremen's awe.
"I immersed myself in that sea," Farok said, looking down at the water creatures worked into the tiles of his floor. "One man sank beneath that water... another man arose from it. I felt that I could remember a past which had never been. I stared around me with eyes which could accept anything... anything at all. I saw a body in the water - one of the defenders we had slain. There was a log nearby supported on that water, a piece of a great tree. I can close my eyes now and see that log. It was black on one end from a fire. And there was a piece of cloth in that water - no more than a yellow rag... torn, dirty. I looked at all these things and I understood why they had come to this place. It was for me to see them."
I think that if they end up wanting a more grounded version of space navigators, it'd be cool if they were to look like "Dune Bane" . With a weird speaker voice and a mask hooked on a spice tank held by suspensors.
Denis has backed himself into a corner with his timeline. If we do the 14 year skip then in this new timeline, Alia is 14 and that won't work. If we do 16 years or more then everyone will have to be aged up a lot. Also Chani is a huge plot point from the beginning so he'll have to just be like "Chani came to her senses and came back between movies".
Stoneburner, Edric and Mohiam getting hers is what I need to see in Messiah.
Edric is dead easy to cast. Just get Doug Jones in a fish suit. Bosh, problem solved.
It would be amazing to see Dune part 3
Showing the planets being destroyed " lead them to paradise "
And the holy war as referenced by Jessica.
If that is not included the movie is mostly gonna be a slow burn.
Basically will be about love and betrayal
I know they'll do a great job. What I care more about is the continuation of the story and this universe. Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune should be a TV series.
The book had some events which were very dramatic and the movies Dune 1&2 was just a story moving alone one event after another with no event having any more impact than another. A beautifully made movie with modern filming, just a story line that failed to deliver drama. Based on this I don’t expect any “intense scenes” in the next part. Maybe I am just to familiar with the Dune story line to be surprised or impacted.
Just finished reading Dune Messiah, This is not an "epic action" novel. It is a story of plotting and intrigue. More about fulfilment of the visions. Some new "exotic" type characters. Very little detail of the battles of the Jihad. Without a lot of embellishment on that it wont sell a lot of tickets.
Also too much detail left out of the first two to make the third understandable if one hasn't read the books.
Just my thoughts
My biggest hope is Villeneuve coming back in the future to do another trilogy of Children and God Emperor.
To me Messiah is such a plot rich book, although is the shortest.
It continues with the previous plots and also carries so many pearls for the next long books. It's the perfect bridge.
It introduces c
Key characters for the lore such as Goulers, Tleilaxu, Facedancers, so on.
It's so far, my favorite book of the series (i just ended God Emperor).
And with all the changes Denis made to key character, he literally has a gigantic task forward adapting this book and ending a trilogy that has set the bar so high with the first 2 adaptations.
Personally, I doubt Duncan Idaho will make a comeback, i really would want Jason Momoa to be back to the saga, but i think in this context, the introduction of a Gouler is not of much relevbace, given that who knows if Denis will even make Chani die giving birth to the twins.
(And don't get me started on the huge political agenda Denis has in his adaptations towards the female leads in this book, whom he refuses to use their motherhood as a positive driving force, neither love).
It is Chani gets rid of Paul. Dune 3 and Dune Messiah are vastly different stories. 😕
@@yarsivad000.5 You and I think alike in that detail. This idea has come to mind on several occasions; of Chani being the one who ends Paul and ultimately becomes the hero of the story. Let's see what happens. Despite all these changes, I am still very excited, to see it adapted on screen! Let's see what happens !!
If Chani is the one who ends up killing Paul, I'd just walk out of the movie, and pretend there is no part 3. The way he wrote Chani in part 2 was one of the only negatives in the movie.
@@faded1to3black I don’t think she kills him but she will get him to step aside. They are not sweet hearts. No offspring. He has no eyes and walks into the desert-as Freemen do-to die like in Dune Messiah, but unlike Dune Messiah, first he kills his mother or maybe Chani will kill her. This is Denis Dune. Deni loves Frank Herbert’s story except most of the details that make it a complex layered universe and character motivations and the roles they play in the story.
@@yarsivad000.5 that all sounds like a pretty horrible slaughter of the actual Messiah book to me. If that's what Denis does with it, I'll pass.
Things I'm really hoping for
-Rewriting Chani to be part of the conspiracy despite still loving him would be a devastating plot twist but also could destroy the story so pinch of salt
-Considering how dialogue heavy and for the most part spectacle absent the book is (stoneburner and throne room excluded) I'm hoping we get some jump cuts to Jessica on Caladan and I'd love to see footage of Tleilax
-Seeing Edric
-Scytale using Shishakli's visage in meeting Lichna instead of Duncan Idaho's because 1.She was such a badass standout character and 2.(if i remember correctly) it's a red herring that makes you think "Hayt is not Hayt he's Scytale" which never comes to fruition and gives no suspense because Paul always recognises when someone is a face dancer.
It's about time we saw the guild navigators...conspicuously absent from both films...but important linking story elements
They aren't in the first book, either.
Can’t jump 12 years in the beginning of third film. Big mistake to do that. Movies are no books
This is the story of the novel. It is set 12 years after.
@@tasosalexiadis7748
It’s ok for the novel. But a bad move for a movie.
@@paulvajra5945 It will be a bad movie if they invent their own story. Frank Herbert's follow-up takes place 12 years after. This is the story we have from the author.
@@tasosalexiadis7748 you’re right theoretically. But the movies goers would wanna see at least some continuity from part 2.
@@paulvajra5945 Show flashbacks at the start, long and detailed enough to show the holy war
Can't wait to see the reactions to Pauls eyes
They should make it a 2 part movie like dune too
I want to know if they signed up Jason Mamoa for Messiah in his original Dune contract ?
They didn't know there would be a Messiah adaptation, so probably not. He'd be a fool to decline, though, especially since he'll get a lot more screen time in it.
I want to see Messiah but honestly all the really interesting stuff happens in children of dune. I would love to see a movie adaptation of that. Maybe we will get both
looking forward to some cool Facedancer morphing scenes and Edric the "fish man".
You'll see nothing of the sort. Villenueve has removed anything of interest (spice, time&space bending, hallucinations etc) and left us with a brown sludge of cool CGI.
@@comments.are.turned.off... So you haven't watched these movies then.
I know how slim the chances are, but if anyone here has seen Voltron: Legendary Defender, I’d love a duel between Paul and Hayt that serves as the catalyst for Hayt regaining his memories at the end.
I’d also love a Rumbling style depiction of the Jihad, just an insurmountable wall of destruction and gruesome violence as the fremen desolate entire worlds in Paul’s name, start off hammering down on the consequences of Paul’s ascension
You mentioned Duncan several times, and wondered if this is a different character to the one in the first film?
Same character, basically.
There's just so much to cram in to that third film so I hope he doesn't cut down the run time
Might just be Dune Part III not Messiah and mostly different other than Paul’s story/character arc/ foundation
Messiah is short. Maybe they could combine Children of Dune and Messiah together to really end on a conclusive note. That is if you don't mind warching a four and a half hour long Dune movie. I sure wouldn't.
Deffo going to get a Galadriel fellowship of the ring style monologue from Alia setting up the film/time jump
What I would really like to see in Movies is the continuation:
"Frank Herbert's OG Dune series has six books; after he died, his son Brian Herbert teamed up with author Kevin J. Anderson to continue the story, and their collaboration has produced 17 more books set within the Dune world."
There is a very rich tapestry of further enlightenment of the whole series which are a wonderful read. I've read them all.
One thing I will say, and it is a bit of a spoiler, so look away now:
The final end shows a circle back around time, where the machines are back.
What book does the circle back? I totally missed that if it’s in the first six
The Brian Herbert Dune books are awful. I have read better fan-fiction than those trash books. The characters are shallow and boring, the stories are tedious.
🎉❤Messiah 😊
Then you won’t love Denis Dune part 3.
I’m gonna start a holy war and lead legendary pictures to paradise if they don’t green light dune messiah
Lol it’s been green lit
It's been green lit man 😊
The Syfy Channel mini-series Children of Dune's first episode is very credible adaptation of Dune Messiah. If you have not watched it, I encourage you to (there is a copy on youtube, though you should seek out the proper subtitles when the BG are using sign language). It's a great step up from their Dune adaptation, stands up to viewing today, and is interesting to compare to the speculation of how adaptation would be done as proposed in this video.
4:07 is there a different version of this? While my book opens with "Analysis of history: Muad' dib by Bronso of Ix" it doesn’t have the Q and A section detail his interogation as you described - I'm halfway through the book aswell and yet to come across it?
I have the folio society edition with it. It might be different versions yeah
I think it will be a hard love story movie.
I was terrified Dune would be carried on into the other books but with lower budgets with lesser directors mostly as a cash grab.
This popping up in my recommendeds calmed my anxiety.
Disclosure: I've not read the books. I tried as an older teen decades ago, but this level of detailed world building was always impossible for me.
Oh well, back to listening to you talk
what ab that vision of channi stabbing paul could that be syctale ???
Im really looking forward the most for how they will visually adapt scytale, edric, hait and the stone burner scene, and pauls apperance after that. This movie has potencial to be such an great and diviseve ending. Hope denny can find the right script to make it finish the story as a trilogy without having to change or cut to much of the book. Im still very sad that we didnt get the dinner scene in arrakina in the first movie and hope we have at least a few scenes of the holy war and the fremen with that awesome armour we saw in part one, but deffinetly dont think its needed to add to much action, just because it will diviate too much of the scource material. I have read only dune and dune messiah and i think messiah its even better then dune, altough i have struglled to understand some of the writing of frank herbert, great novel though
This is good. There going to have to change a bit and maybe add some of Children of Dune. Most people think Dune Messiah is the worst and it took me awhile to get through the shortest book. It is good but not the first or next books. Also a lack of action would be a problem.
The ending of DUNE was already altered by Villeneuve, So thinking that Villeneuve keeping to the story line DUNE Messiah is really just a guess. Verhoeven ruined StarShip Troopers; so there is a huge range of possible adaptions.
I hope that the studio greed for continuations don´t let Dennis changing the end of Paul to artistic ends. Remember the crap Lynch end when rains in Dune...
I think Vllleneuve is going to completely change the storyline. Paul has the children with Irulan but secretly still loves Chani. He has agents searching for her on Arrakis. Chani is part of the conspiracy to take him down, but after he is blinded, she realizes she still loves him. They find each other and Paul gives up the throne and walks off into the distance with Chani.
Are we sure it’s just going to be a trilogy? Knowing the books, I wonder and kinda hope that we’ll move beyond Paul’s story, especially since other characters have plenty to do after Messiah
D. U. N. E. = Dune Part 1: D. "Dreams" (Chani Kynes opening narration) / Dune Part 2: U. "Uprising" (Princess Irulan opening narration) // Messiah Part 1 (Dune Part 3): N. "Nightmares" (Lady Jessica opening narration) / Messiah Part 2 (Dune Part 4): E. "Eclipsing" (Lia Atreides opening narration) = D. U. N. E.