Podcast Editors // Are We Overthinking It When We Edit?
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- I have a question for the podcast editors: are we overthinking things and doing things wrong when we edit?
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Hi Jesse, what drives your process is the difference between the quality of the audio file your client provides to you, and their expectation for the final product. If you’re delivering what the client asked for, how is it that overthinking on your part? Perhaps it's better said that clients over expect?
I launched my podcast less than 2 months ago. It amounts to me reading the blog I’ve published since ‘99. The learning curve wasn’t as steep for me as I’ve been a recording songwriter since the ‘70s. Episode 1 was the most time consuming; write and record an intro and outro; write and record the voice overlay, line them up and lock them into a master “make from” podcast episode skeleton. All I have to do per episode now is drop the processed voice file from the narration onto a track, line it up with the intro and outro, set levels and render. Including reading the 10 minute (on avg) scripts it’s taking 60-90 minutes per episode, depending on how many reading mistakes I made.
The thing about “overthinking” - that’s not something you do with every episode. You learn, improve, streamline and apply best practices. What at first may have been overthinking, becomes a ‘no brainer’ with experience. Jack in Sequim.
I asked him about what type of audio he's used to working with. He agreed that radio tends to work with much better recordings and that he wasn't really familiar with the quality of audio podcast editors deal with. Even with a company like Hindenburg, they seem a little out of touch. I reached out to tech support because I was getting glitchy audio when I was testing out the new Dialog Isolate plugin and when I told him my plugin chain, he asked "is the audio really so bad that you need all of that?" It was a pretty standard chain of noise/reverb reduction, EQ, compression, gate, and a loudness meter. In my world, that's a pretty standard chain, even with good audio.
Unrelated: my wife and I love Sequim. We had considered moving there instead of Southern Washington. It's on our list of places to get back to now that we're back in the NW.
@@jesse.mccune It's a great place if you love the outdoors. Lots of retirement aged folks. The area is real busy Memorial through Labor day with weekenders and vacationers here - much slower pace of life fall through early spring. The downtown area reminds me of Auburn where I'm from.
Ha, this is an intersting one. Podcast Dialogue is really the only medium that has such heavy processing and acceptable NR artifacts. I find it really over-processed for my taste. I imagine this is where Radio-Dude was coming from. The best sounding podcasts (in my humble opinion) almost always have people recorded in a decent sounding room with some decent sounding mics, with tasteful EQ and Compression. And really, it doesn't take much to get that sound. My $100 dollar SM57 + A81WS sitting in an untreated bedroom sounds significantly better than 95% of the podcast dialogue I edit. I think this is where Radio-Dude is coming from. But the truth is, and I think anyone who does this work would agree- we almost never work with that quality of dialogue. We're also limited in time that we have to solve and clean issues. On top of that, Podcast Dialogue is expected to sound clean, consistent, and easy to listen to. Clean dialogue is valued over audio quality from the audience. Having a nuanced understanding of one's processing chain and workflow is a sign of a good editor, not overthinking.
I go back and forth with an SM57 and SM58, into a Tascam DR-10X on a floor stand with shock mount. Simplest 'podcast' setup I could figure. I did add a Fethead and Xvive P1 phantom power unit between them to reduce the noise floor. Without, the DR-10X has to be set for Hi gain which has some audible hiss. Turns out my music room is really resonant, especially with a half dozen acoustic guitars out. They resonate a lot when I read a script. Threading socks between the strings and over the sound holes helped, but the room itself 'talks'. Since the gear set up is so portable, recording in the bedroom master closet works - the racks of clothes make for great damping and yield a whisper quiet recording. Not my idea; I heard somewhere Mike Rowe recorded his book The Way I Heard It in his walk-in closet.
@ChrisPFuchs There's so much truth here. It's not difficult to get decent recordings with a little know-how. The problem is so many podcasters don't take the time to learn how to position their mic. I can get good recordings from anyone with a dynamic mic positioned well in any room. That becomes next to impossible if they're using a condenser. As you point out, as editors, we are at the mercy of our client's recording engineer, which is usually themselves. This ties our hands in what we can do without over-processing but delivering something listenable.
@ilblues
Even without the Fethead, removing the hiss is pretty trivial these days in terms of the damage done by the processing. I never thought of the impact of having a number of acoustic guitars in a room would have on the resonance in the room. It doesn't surprise me. I still have a resonance in my space somewhere around 700 Hz, but I've stopped worrying about it.
And yes, walk-in closets are usually the best sounding room in a house. For anyone who isn't recording video, this should be the place to consider recording.
You can overthink in podcast editing, but it's not with the processing.
When we are using plugins to process the dialogue for cleanup and improvement, its possible to err on the wrong side of "clean" and change the sound enough to ruin it. This takes a practised ear with a processing chain to pickup when it happens, and is avoided. I'd class this as over-processing, though.
I reckon "overthinking" is when we spend 30 seconds debating internally at each um or ah about whether it should stay or go, or whether a slight nostril breath caught outside a gate should stay or go. Avoiding spending more time on a section of audio than it occupies is a decent rule for me - any more, and its overthinking and overediting.
My two cents: podcasting is different to radio, different to music... definitely its own thing! When someone says "ambiance" I think of how Billie Eilish records her tracks with different vocal tones in different mics, in different spaces... podcasting is way different. Information, delivered cleanly with a convenient expectation for the listener is the important part. When podcasters talk about "their art", I don't think they talk about audio processing (or a lack thereof) and how their traffic noise adds credibility to their content.
There ARE things we need to be cautious of - I'd argue that opinions of people who aren't open to being wrong is one of them!
Thank you for your well-written response. It's more coherent than anything I would have rambled on about. I completely agree with these points.
Had a thought Jesse. Is it fair to compare broadcast radio medium with podcast? Seems like old school radio DJs were more entertainers than podcast hosts who are interview hosts. A radio DJs voice is his instrument and many I've heard want to capture every breath, 'nyuk, nyuk, nyuk' they utter, where as a podcast host is more information / education driven. Big difference between entertainment and education - silliness and seriousness ...
I think some podcasts can be compared to radio shows. Narrative shows come to mind. But podcasting isn't only one thing with one use-case. I feel that is where the disconnect was coming from. This attitude that if it's not a highly produced radio style show like Twenty Thousand Hertz its not a podcast. Some people listen to or watch podcasts to learn something, or to be entertained, or hear this person or that person talk. Some people want to listen to stories, or they just have something they want to say. They're all valid forms of podcasting and we all have our own preferences. It doesn't make one style of production right and others wrong.
As podcast editors it's our job to make the episodes sound better. Leaving background noise in a podcast will make it sound amateurish -what radio show has background noise? The FX chain you describe is needed for bad recordings made with cheap mics in rooms with reverb, while properly made recordings with good mics take almost no work. So there are moments where a lot of work is needed and there are moments when you can leave the audio untouched.
I agree. Most of what we deal with is not perfect. Even when I engineer the recording session for the client, I'm still stuck with the poor acoustics of their recording spaces. As video becomes more commonplace, attention to the background becomes more important. It's tougher to get people to record video in their closets. Our job is to process each recording depending on the needs of the audio.