You saved me from certain frustration and most likely from a hopeless surrender. I am not a music professional and every hour saved is of great value to me that have not much time to devote to this passion. Thank you very much, I gladly subscribed to your channel with the hope that you can share other valuable videos like this one.
I like to save people their frustration. :) I do know what you mean, and a lot of my videos are fueled from having the same feeling. Happy to have you onboard!
Clear, precise, with a perfect pronunciation that as a foreigner I was able to understand very well. You explained everything calmly and in a pleasant way, you talked about the negative points without being biased. Your video was very useful to me and it was nice to listen to you, thank you
Oh, thank you. Good to know, I often find that my accent, and at times grammatical errors make it hard to understand. I have worked a lot to improve this in newer videos, but I am happy it was still clear. Cheers!
I work with EWQL for 10 Years now. This video was so well explained. I like to work without the Experession map though, because I want to see everything at once. BTW. Subscribed!
If you don't agree with how I use the samples, and "what they mean", that is fine. go with what works for you of course. It doesn't mean that "I don't understand the manual" or "the correct way" of using these samples. Trust me, I do, but they way you use/mold the samples is in fact a personal experience, both in terms of what you want, and then in terms of limiting frustrations and extra work. There are tons of samples in this library you truly don't need to produce great music, but you still have the option to do so, if you have the time to nitpick forever. Most producers I know, don't have this time, and most people can't tell the difference between them in a full mix. This video is trying to dispel the complexity, and sometimes frustrations, the library gives a newer user. These difficulties are well known in the composer community, and also the fact that EastWest provides little to none of a thorough and helpful explanation of how the samples actually work, and what they mean, in any video out there. The manual is not much more clear in fact. No other string library has done it this way, and there is a reason for that... The list of patches that I have provided in the description is a really good start, but you are very free to use them as you like. The example of the attack samples in the legatos, doesn't mean they "are meant" for staccatos, they are an extra attack at the start, but you could use it that way if you like. Still, as I say, it is not the best way.
What a brilliant explanation. That should be official tutorial for EWHO. My main confusion about HO was the complexity of use. I thought you need to use dozens of tracks for specific instrument to program it like you want but you showed it is simpler than I thought and I watched a lot of HO videos and while they convinced me to the sound they did not convince me about the worklow. Thank you!
Great! Yes, I thought this was needed. My video on two ways of composition explains "the other" way of doing it with several tracks. Some people like that too. Cheers!
You sir just made me give Hollywood Strings a new chance! I always thought the sounds where stellar, but as soon as I touched the Play engine and saw all the choices, my creative soul was crushed :-P Now I have a guide to try to make a usable patch with the things that I need, then only need to dive deeper into the articulation folders whenever I need some special thing the main patch can't handle. Great stuff! Thanks :-) And as a Logic user, I can confirm that you can make articulation sets a midi channel, but unsure if you can make one that bridges several midi channels like you do...
Thanks for this. I’ve used EW Hollywood series for about 5 years and I’ve owned most of them before composer cloud became a thing, so not looking at a subscription. But after all this time, I still find it to be a fantastic sounding library which I am still very keen to learn more about (still lol). For example, I just found the trombone’s slide patch recently... sounds awesome for a certain sound. I agree with you on most of your points, on its strengths and weaknesses (strings, perc and brass vs woodwinds and solos), but your tips have been great and looks like a cool channel to sub to. I use Studio One which has a new key switch automation lane, so I think it might be a good workaraound for that last tip. I just purchased BBC Symphonic Orchestra and, although it’s a lot easier to use and understand, I found many more disappointments than I would’ve liked after being spoiled (in a good way) by EW.
Thank you. Yes, if one can survive all the problems that EW play comes with, it is still actually one of the better orchestra libraries out there. It feels strange that such an old library just isn't really matched yet by anyone. BBC is good, but you are not the first one to say exactly that. Let's see what Opus will do.
Oh wow! This is a game changer! I'm new to DAWs and composing and recently subscribed to Composer Cloud. I looked at the instructions that came with the instruments and was a little overwhelmed to say the least. This video just cleared it all up in a matter of minutes. Tip 10 is a huge bonus but well worth watching the whole video because its a goldmine of tips and advice. You have a new subscriber! I'm going to look at your videos now to see if you have some Cubase tips/tutorials. Thank you so much for an excellent resource :)
@@SecondTierSound I've copied your Violins 1 patch (from Tip 9) and the Expression Map from (Tip 10), but I just wondered if you are able to share your other Patch Masters for the various parts of the orchestra because its such a good way for someone like me who is new to this to be set up in a way which makes it all more intuitive. Even just seeing screenshots of you patch masters would be useful so I can recreate them. Really appreciate your time and effort and your support.
@@GavinNellist Why not? I just have to figure out how. any good ideas? Just make sure you have plenty of RAM though, I think they will take about 25 gigs all loaded up.
@@SecondTierSound hey that would be great thank you. How about a short video showing your patches which could be paused? Or maybe some screen shots on Instagram maybe?
One tip I wish I knew from the first day I started using EW products is to add your EW libraries folder to the exceptions/excluions in the Windows Antivirus/Firewall. For me it divided load times by 10, not kidding.
Yes, I know this is fantastic. Thanks for letting us all know. I had planned to add this to a future video. I will add it anyway, because you are right, it makes a huge difference, and the more who know this, the better. Cheers!
I do agree with most of the things you said. I would just single out Storm Drums 3 as another good library from the package. For people who want to write more then orchestral Voices of Soul, Hollywood Pop Brass, Backup Singers, the pianos and many others are also worth looking at. Buying them adds up pretty quickly, so it might be worth just keeping up the subscribtion (I do that and slowly buy up the ones I want). In Reaper there is Reaticulate which is a lot like Expression maps in Cubase.
Great additions. I agree. Yeah, the subscription is not bad at all, you do get a lot of libraries, and quite a few are very useful, especially the ones you are mentioning. If you have no piano at all, the ones in the subscription are ok, but on the whole I wouldn't say they hold up compared to most pianos out on the market today. Could also be that I am particularly picky about my pianos... Awesome you mentioned Reaticulate! I think also that FL studio has something similar. Cheers!
A solution for the harp glissando is to play on white keys and then transfer it. For example a glissando in Ab , record in C and then transfer a Major 3rd down. Same for any mode.
Yes, that is a great solution that works well. If you want to be accurate though in terms of pedaling a harp, it wouldn't be totally accurate that way, but that is nitpicking, and probably most people don't hear this difference. You would need a harp like the one found in for example cinesamples to do it that way.
Thank you for this! I got into all of this back in the days of Cakewalk and Mark of the Unicorn, when the code was slow and dodgy, documentation was terrible, and sound samples came on hardware. I'm only at this late date discovering tutorials like yours -- though I can cut myself some slack, you only posted this a little over a year ago. I also picked Cuebase years ago, and still learned nifty tricks from your video. Again, thank you! I did decide to go with the composer cloud subscription, because of the constant stream of upgrades and new samples that E/W keeps turning out.
@@SecondTierSound I'm just starting to play with Opus, but one HUGE bonus is that it has a feature that displays ALL of the controllers which each sample recognizes, along with descriptions. Catalogued online documentation, if you will, on a sample-by-sample basis.
I never used the expression maps before, because of KeySwitch patches, but the way you use it seem very, well... Useful, and less work than putting all the keyswitch notes in the bottom of the midi region. Thanks fo the tip!
Great video. Have you checked out the new opus version of hollywood orchestra? Just tested the strings and there are really crazy, I own the EW symphonic orchestra gold for around ten years, but also struggled pretty much with it and hadn`t the knownledge and experience to get much out of it. But now, I got really deep into the manuals, the new tutorials on the east west youtube channel and especially the "spaces II" reverb outside the library, first time, I really can achive,what I wanted all the years, the different mic postions bring everything to a whole new level (but it`s no beginner stuff).
What an excellent walkthrough! I hope you're ready for Hollywood Orchestra OPUS which will probably address some of the dated annoyances (like the confusing abbreviations).
Very nice video. With Cakewalk's articulation maps, you create a map for whatever instruments you load into your synth. Here's a thread about it on the Cakewalk forums that shows you exactly how to do it. It works (I just tried it). They have .ewi files and .artic files for the example given.
Hi! I bought Hollywood Orchestra Gold about 5 years ago, and I was quite frustrated with the number of presets and the difficulty of recording anything... Then I purchased many other libraries from different manufacturers, and for the last few years, I basically haven't used East West at all. However, recently, I've started rediscovering this library. I've learned how to use it, and I've found a plethora of sounds and articulations that are completely unavailable in all other libraries combined... You could say I've fallen in love with this library all over again. :) I'm considering getting an upgrade to the full Opus version on the upcoming Black Friday since I have the old version of Play from 5 years ago, and it's the gold edition (meaning without additional microphones). Although Opus is on sale now, I'm hoping for an even bigger discount on Black Friday, and I'll definitely make the purchase then. :) Thanks for this tutorial!
This video is great. I'm in the middle of my first orchestral album, and have been running into a number of various problems with the patches. I'll take a fresh look at some of the choices I made.
I just subscribe to CC tonight and i am a bit discourage about the size of the Hollywood strings opus version, a whopping 414 GB and i am only talking about the strings since all other library are also gigantic in size and to get the necessary instruments for a full orchestra you need at least 2 TB drive, this is insane! They should make a light version of each of these libraries with only necessary patch to make decent scoring.
It's a big library, but iit fits on 1TB. You don't need 2. The other libraries are smaller.. The strings have a lot of articulations, plus mic positions. If you don't end up liking it, you can always cancel the subscription, and you haven't lost that much. The x version of the library is smaller, with less mics and different sample rate, while the plus had all mics plus higher bitrate, hence needs more hard drive space
Just cause i ve searched about that , NV NV NV VB means that the 3 lower strings or the violins dont have vibrato and when you touch the higher voices and trigger the first string than you get a vibrato. NV NV VB MB is no vibrato for the 2 lower strings D and G , 2nd string A has a vibrato and 1st string E has a molto vibrato. Hope that helps!
Hello! Maybe I misunderstand you, but the letters in this case stands for what kind of vibrato is used in the dynamic layer. That is, the modulation is divided into 4 layers of dynamics with vibrato baked in. The first example you give means that there is no vibrato until the loudest (4th) dynamic layer, and the second that there is a smaller vibrato in the third dynamic layer, and then a stronger vibrato at the fourth. This has nothing to do with what string or how many notes you play. It wasn't clear to me in the beginning either, and I just figured it out by testing a lot. Cheers!
FYI When downloading and installing you need double the drive space - one space for the zips and another for the unistalled folders. If your drive is say 1 TB, then download the biggest folder only first (that's about 400 gb) so you will need 800 gb for instal but once installed and the zips gone, the space will reduce to 400 gb. Do this again for the next biggest and so forth.
Yes, I have. There is a lot to say about it, but to be quick, If you have Komplete, it is a nice addition. But for the asking price, is just doesn't hold up to what is out there on the market today. It is overpriced and doesn't have a lot of good features, and a below average legato. It is still has some nice samples and sounds, and a fairly straightforward interface.
Great Video! Tip Number 10 is indeed great advice :)! What is your favorite virtual instrument for solo instruments (since you say that EastWest is not to be recommended for these)?
Well, look at fluffy audio for solo winds. I think Cinematic Studio solo strings is outstanding. Also, Embertone has some great solo instruments. I am sure there are others, but at the back of my mind, that is what I think of right now. Cheers!
For got to mention you can you expression maps in reaper using reaticulate plugin, with East West libraries. There is a video on it ua-cam.com/video/GAmaoKYjj4/v-deo.html One advantage of reaticulate is you can send multiple CCs / notes and UACC per articulation, which allows for a bit come flexibility in how it can be used.
EWHO Woodwinds is a library with solo instruments only. The old EWSO had groups built with e.g. 2 or 3 instruments. Except flutes all instruments seem to be individual ones. How do you double or triple them like in a real orchestra?
Great question! I am thinking this could maybe be a video. But, yes, it is not that easy to create groups in Hollywood. Most real orchestras have two of each wind instrument, more or less. I would say that because of the problems that EW Hollywood has (phasing, sounding like there are two instruments), it is ok to use only ONE solo patch for "two" instruments, because it kind of sounds like there are two players. If you need to divide the parts, just use a "long" patch. This is actually quite realistic as there are no more than two of each instrument. The problems is when you want only ONE voice. And a patch of three voices in the bassoon wouldn't really work if you are going for realism. Another potential problem is that solo patches grouped together doesn't always work so well, both because of tuning and phasing. You would have to experiment with panning and volumes. To be honest, when it comes to group patches, I use another library: Hollywoodwinds by Cinesamples is truly excellent here. Hollywood winds by EW does have a few variations too, like flute 2, English horn, and Eb Clarinet that can add some variation to the sound, instead of doubling. Lastly, you could create a patch yourself by loading up, let's say piccolo, flute, oboe (maybe bassoon) all using the same midi channel, so that they all play together as a performance patch. EW did go for realism more than most libraries had done, and I would say, still today. If you think about it, the "2 voices" per instrument" approach, it is the most logical and actually suits the library rather well, even though it seems like it was intended as a solo instrument. I don't think it is a true solo library. Perhaps they had the idea of creating that later. We'll see what happens with OPUS. LONG answer! :) I can't stop myself sometimes
@@SecondTierSound Thank you for the answer. Most of my projects are semi pop/orchestral so EWSO Platinum was more than enough for my needs. Recently I had to create an instrumental version of one of the older song recorded with the orchestra. EWSO sounded too modern for it and I started a project with NI Symphony Series (I've got Komplete 12 Ultimate Collector's Edition). Sounded nice, warm but there was a problem with woodwinds and their articulations vs tempo changes. I usually start such projects by creating a tempo map as close as possible to the original song. Because this original song was recorded live it had a lot of tempo changes. It was the first time I got high CPU spikes every tempo change caused in a Kontakt instance playing Oboes. I suppose it uses host tempo in the scripts to change trills, crescendos etc. What's interesting, I wasn't able to reproduce the problem in a new - test - project. Nothing helped - reloading instrument, the Kontakt instance, restarting Cubase (10 Pro), or even changing the host (Nuendo 10). So I gave up and bought CC Plus from EW. I've finished the project with HO Woodwinds and their solo oboe. But before I started using it I haven't noticed EW HO Woodwinds was solo instruments library :) Anyway, it's a very good library. Btw., before I've found your great video I've created a template with almost the same articulations you suggest to use :) All these slurs lite 12, MOD speeds etc. :) Thank you for your advices. I think I can mix EWSO with Hollywood Orchestra in the woodwind parts, but you're right - let's wait for the Opus edition, maybe we'll got new sounds.
You’ve gained another subscriber! Question: what is the process for recording trumpet harmonies using the 1 TP Leg Slur patch? I found that the only way I can record trumpet harmonies is by using the solo trumpet patch. Your help will be greatly appreciate it. Thanks.
I need a little more info to understand exactly what you mean. Why just solo patch? You could use the long patch too, but then you wouldn't get the legatos, but wouldn't need separate tracks. If you want a bigger sound you could use a patch with more instruments too. The process otherwise it's too sketch something out with the piano, a note pad, or a longs patch, then disperse the (usually three) voices to different trumpets. More or less. Trumpets can have a close voicing if needed.
@@SecondTierSound thanks for the quick response. When I tried to record my voicings in 2 separate tracks using the 1 tp leg slur I was not able to (i.e. 3rds) nor could I in a single track. Is the patch monophonic? I have Hollywood Orchestra Diamond. I noticed the same thing with 1 TB leg slur. I’m new to this. Thanks for your patience .
Can confirm that you can set up articulation sets with midi-channel key-switches in Logic X :-) Just made my "1. violins patch", and it works perfectly thus far, and the playability feel great! Eats a lot of RAM though, especially when I include the close mice in GoldX, as I like a detailed sound. Just wondering, why do you include both the "short MOD speed LS" and the "stac slur LS"? They sound pretty similar to me only the MOD contain more options with the use of CC1, what do you use stac slur for?
Great to hear that! Well, you might be right, and if you found a way to save RAM, right on! Personally, I find that the StacSlurs are really awesome for quick passages, and it just adds a little realism with some "legato" between notes. But it could be that no one cares, lol. Just a picky composer...
since you asked: the expression maps are equivalent to articulations sets in Logic Pro or just setting midi channels. The gem with EW is to set numerical key commands to quickly change instruments and articulations. Now what Cubase does not has is... midi environment? There lays the gold, principally now if Opus. I am still speculating , setting my template and deciding how i gonna do things; yes, is a lot of work this part, but pays off, if you want to really work in the limits of the possible and according to your way. *The opus woodwinds should work with legato now, and is after all other samples a huuuuge download, fuck. I bought 1T ssd and it is gone
Hi. most of your woodwind patches are for solo instruments. The few orchestras I've played in had multiple instruments of each part (i.e. 2 each clarinet 1, 2, 3 - depending on availability). Will using solo instruments give a similar sound to grouped instruments? ( I'm still a novice. ) I really enjoy your videos. They are clear and thorough. I started a trial of Cubase based on you video of expression maps. CW was driving me crazy...
Thank you for your kind words. Most libraries both have solo patches, and ensemble patches. Even though it might seem like a good idea to use, for example, 2 separate solo patches to create a duo, it usually doesn't sound that great. It is better to use a patch that has two (or more) players instead, already recorded in the sound. So most libraries have a few options of more players, or sometimes ensemble patches where all the players are playing. For example all the woodwinds, or all the strings, etc. This can really help in the writing process, and speed up the work quite a bit, but does lack a bit in detail, and in general doesn't include legato.
Thanks for the response, that's what I thought (hence the question.) I could not find most of the patches in your suggestions in the OPUS libraries for multiple players. some i was not able to find at all (Leg Slur VS Full Ni, Sus NV VB Full Ni). I have an update subscription. BTW I'm not just being a lazy bum, I've read the descriptions in the manual, but I want to start with suggestions from experience.
Well, it depends on what review you have watched. I have some older videos of the PLAY engine, where the patch names are a bit different to the OPUS engine. I also have a review of the OPUS engine. It's the same library, just that the patch names have changed somewhat. Also, depending on what version of the library you have, i.e. gold or diamond you also get different patches.
@@LightWingStudios I think we all know about it and where to find it. But it seems to be on hold for the moment. So, I am not holding my breath, especially since there has been no announcement from EastWest about when they will release this. They obviously are having some problems.
Thank you for this! I have searched for something similar for so long. I thing EW has not really made heir product accessible for non professionals. But this helped alot. A question, regarding divisi. Is the idea that you should not play more than one note at the time for each player then but rather have different groups play the different notes, in a chord for example?
Yes, normally each section of the string family plays a note, creating a chord, which gives you 5 notes (violin1, violin 2, viola, cello and bass) Divisi gives you more chords notes you could say, or different textures if you don't want to use the whole string family for a chord. Normally, a section all plays unison (mostly), but you can divide the section (divisi) so that a section plays 2, or even 3 parts. Two parts in a section is the most common. But Mozart sometimes did more for example. Cheers!
Great video! I wonder if you've experimented around with any of the metropolis ark or albion libraries. What, if anything, do you think sets the ewql hollywood orchestra apart from these other big libraries?
I have more experience with Albion, and have tried Ark a little. EastWest is in my mind a library that can do pretty much all you through at it, but requires a lot more work. Albion and the Ark series are a little more specific in terms of genre, but are very fast composing tools. So, they are not the same kind of libraries, and are hard to compare. Hollywood is a complete Orchestra (more or less) with very detailed articulations,. Albion and the Arks are not that detailed but are both very good high quality libraries.
@@SecondTierSound You replied quick! That's a good insight! The hollywood orchestra seems pretty awesome. Have you used any of the EWQLSO packs? Like gold or platinum?
@@kaboomatar I'm sorry I missed this one. I don't really know what you mean with packs. I use the Hollywwod orchestra diamond myself, which means more mic positions, higher bitrate and divisi. In terms of subscriptions it is the same. If you are talking about specific libraries, I think that EW is not worth it beyond Hollywood, their ethnical libraries and stormdrum. For the rest I find the quality and/or price not matching other libraries out there.
my friend had the EWQLSO silver library. it looks like they don't offer that one any more but gold and platinum were the next levels up. I played around with silver and it was super nice quality. the sounds were really good and there were so many articulations, so I was wondering if there were any major differences in the sound out of the box with the hollywood library. so many libraries these days it's hard to pick :) here's a link to the library i'm talking about, btw www.soundsonline.com/symphonic-orchestra
actually I know the Hollywood library is much more recent, so based off that alone i'm sure the sounds are better quality than the older stuff. so i'm definitely leaning more towards that as i'm expecting it to be even closer to cinematic-quality sound out of the box. hence the name, hollywood =p
Thank you. I don't know, as I'm no prototools expert, but i think someone mentioned it in the comments if you look around. There should be a way to do something similar, in pretty sure.
I personally already own komplete 13 ultimate collector edition which already bundles the symphony series and other cool stuff so i'm not sure i'd need the hollywood orchestra however i'm kinda interested by their hollywood choirs as that's what komplete lacks
Yes, perhaps not. I personally find the Hollywood a bit better for orchestra, but the symphony series is ok too. It depends on what you need it for. Komplete is truly excellent, but not so much for orchestra. I have a video about the choirs that eastwest makes
@@SecondTierSound I am not sure honestly I did hear comparisons and native instrument's stuff does sound very good and can compete in my opinion i also own metropolis ark 3 which kinda adds to what's bundled as well
To each his own. Metropolis arc is not a native instrument product and has nothing to do with komplete, but is an excellent library för a big orchestral sound.
Thank you for your work, it's very useful! I have one question for you, I guess the question is asked many times, but If you compare Hollywood Orchestra Diamond and the Spitfire BBC Pro, in your opinion, which is better?
It is a good question, not easily answered. They are good at different things, but bbc is more updated, and have solved quite a bit of problems, partially being a newer library, and it also has better woodwinds. But Hollywood is still more detailed and complete, and it is saying quite a lot that a much older library like that can still keep up. Hollywood is also a lot cheaper, not just the subscription. If i had the money today, and I had no orchestral library, I probably would have bought bbc. But I'm not unhappy with Hollywood, and it can do what I want. And the strings are amazing. It is also about learning how a library functions to get the most out of it. We'll see what happens with the upcoming Opus though.
@@SecondTierSound thank you for such a detailed answer. And it's great that you gave your opinion on strings of Hollywood Orchestra. It was because of the strings that I was interested in your opinion in terms of comparison, since brass and wood suit me down to the ground in BBC. But the strings, in my opinion, sound a little unnatural in runs. And at the same time Hollywood strings sound like real bunch of players plaing right here and right now just in front of you. No hint of fake sound. Especially when playing fast passages. This is just amazing for me!
It's a big topic. But the problem is that most faders are ridiculously overpriced. The nanokey by korg is actually totally ok for the price, but not amazing. I think otherwise that arturia and native instruments have nice keyboards with good controllers, albeit arturia has more options. I also use cc121 which is fantastic, but that is cubase specific and more about channel control, not dynamics. I can't truly recommend anything because it is mostly too expensive and not good enough. It is a missing piece
Well, that is of course a preference. If you are happy with it, all the power to you. Personally, I don't find it holds up in quality, comparing both to the rest of the Hollywood libraries, but especially the solo libraries that are out on the market today. Perhaps I am too picky? :) But there are no specific "problems" per se. Just a bit outdated. Cheers!
Thank you for this! Really helps! Just some quick questions: 1. Will you be reviewing the new Hollywood Opus Edition and seeing if they fixed each of the problems you mentioned? It would be greatly appreciated! 2. Also, you mentioned that the solo instruments are not as good. I'm not sure which ones you meant. Do you mean the ones that are separete product downloads, like the two Solo Cello and Solo Violin, or did you mean solo instrument presets within each of the Orchestra section downloads, like within the entire Strings download or Brass download. 2b. If you didn't mean the latter, how do those solo presets perform? 3. Finally, which libraries would you recommend for solo instruments?
Thank you! A lot of questions. 1. I aim to get hold of Opus, but it is not out yet. Sooner or later. 2/3. I mean the separate solo instruments that are not in included in the Hollywood Orchestra. In my mind they do not hold up. There are a lot of good solo libraries out there, look at for example embertone, cinematic studio series, OrchestraTools and Fluffy audio. There are more. Cheers!
@@SecondTierSound Thank you I will research these for sure! What do you think of Spitfire libraries by the way? Also, check out my other comment! I hope it can help!
You can do pretty much what you want with composer cloud, because the libraries found in there cover pretty much everything you need, but I would also say that composer cloud is much better at orchestral stuff than komplete. Komplete also covers a lot of genres, and has a lot of newer libraries that are better than the ones in composer cloud. So, they can both do a lot, but are also specialized. Hollywood orchestra in composer cloud is far superior to any orchestral library in komplete, but Komplete has a lot more to offer for electronic music for example. Composer cloud is also a lot more friendly for the wallet.
Hi! I am considering subscribing to the composer cloud, but I have a question. So, if I subscribe to the composer cloud and download a library. Will I be able to use that after my subscription ends or do I have to be subscribed to use the library? Thanks!
No, that is the thing. When you finish the subscription, you will loose everything. The only way to "keep" your work is to render the tracks you have created. That is why it is a good idea to save up to the libraries you like. But the subscription is a great way to try them out first, just not a great idea to keep year after year.
Really helpful video! Just a question about the template you've outlined in the description: Am I right in assuming that you are using Diamond? And the same in the video, when you refer to the violin combined instrument adding up to roughly 1.5g of RAM? I'm just trying to get an idea how much the full template (Again, the one from the YT description box) might take using Gold or Diamond. Many thanks :)
Hello, It is a little different, depending on what instrument you use. The biggest patches are the legato patches, and the string ones in the diamond library are up 1.5 gig more or less, for the most advanced ones. I actually don't know at the moment, but I think the strings is the worst offender. Yes, I use diamond. The patches I use, are not unique to diamond and can be used in gold as well. But there should be less memory usage, because diamond is 24 bit sampling, and gold 16 bit. I used gold before myself, and remember the biggest patches being around 1 gig, but I don't have any exact details. When I load up my template that contains all the patches listed, plus percussion, a piano and choir that is not from EASTWEST, my memory usage is about 25 gig. But I am not sure how much that is EASTWEST and what is the OS. Still, my conclusion is that you need 32 GIGs of RAM to have all this comfortably, perhaps even more is even better. Still, I used EASTWEST before I had that kind of memory, and it worked fine. I just had to freeze instruments more often, I just couldn't run everything at once. Cheers!
@@SecondTierSound Thank-you so much for your detailed and helpful reply. It seems like your 'remembered' experience of the difference in RAM footprint is close to what I've read elsewhere i.e that Gold uses approximately 30% less. That would mean (and I'm only approximating, here) that your full template would come in around 17gigs. After considering my OS, I have about 12gig to play with (Can't expand past 16g on my current computer). So, in the end, I could probably manage to load 60-70% of your template. This seems fine for me. As I would be using the library to learn how to orchestrate, I wouldn't need everything constantly on, anyway. And because Logic allows plugins to remain in place while removing the resource consumption, i can just click them on and off as needed. I also have no problem bouncing and freezing, as necessary. Anyway, thanks again. Your answer has definitely given me more confidence to explore the possibility, Will probably take a month or two of the Composer Cloud to make sure I am into it :D All the best!
Composer cloud? Quite often. Opus orchestra? i don't know. They had an introductory price. But since it is quite new it probably won't be on a sale a whole ton. But the cloud version is a really good idea if you just want to check it out a month.
This tutorial is fantastic! Thank you for posting this. I had a question for you. I wrote some ragtime pieces and no matter how hard I try, I can’t get it to sound good with the composercloud sounds. It sounds fine with the piano sounds but if I try to add anything more it just sounds wrong. Am I missing something?Any recommendations? Again, thank you so much for posting this
I would have to see this in order to tell you. In general i think that Hollywood Orchestra and the ethnic libraries are good, but not the others. It really matters his you use them, but Eastwest is not the only library out there. Also check out my other videos in this series to learn more specifically about the patches.
@@SecondTierSound thank you for your reply I appreciate it. I will definitely check out your other videos. Looking forward to learning more from your videos :-)
@@josephlandman6343 If money is an object, the Korg Nano Key is totally ok. There aren't too many options actually that aren't ridiculously priced. In general faders are better than rotary knobs.
I believe it is only for pro. I did not think about that. But having articulations separately is actually quite good when it comes to EastWest Hollywood. There are some benefits.
Hello! I do use templates, yes. If you mean i have any for you, I do give my patrons templates, but I've also noticed that templates are hard to share since you have to have pretty much the exact same setup for it to function properly. Cheers!
Well, that is for my patrons I'm afraid, but in the video description i show what I use. Again, presets only work if you have the exact same setup and engine version. For example if I have diamond, and you have gold it won't work.
Eastwest is great but beware once purchased items can’t be sold and licenses are non transferable it’s not an Ilok thing it’s their thing.You will be stuck with whatever you buy from them even if you don’t like it.
@@SecondTierSound Reply I didn’t even want the money back.I was hurt a while ago and I just wanted for my cousin to be able to take ownership of the products that I already paid for and they said no!
I'm sorry, but 500 is a cheap computer. It has been way over 500 for a long time. You can of course get a used setup, and I think sanjay c has a great video about that. Search for it. But virtual instruments cost. Of course, composition cloud by eastwest is a good deal. And a piano and a pen and paper works really well. You don't need a computer at all to write music, I'm serious.
@@SecondTierSound $500 isn't cheap for paycheck-to-paycheck people 😂😂. Nothing against your video, to me it's just frustrating what the entry price is for this craft. It's paper/pencil and orchestration books now but man do I want some quality libraries eventually.
@@nicholas72611 I understand. I am not rich myself, and I have saved over a long time, slowly built up what I have. I myself feel frustration when I don't have the gear and the libraries I need, because of cost. But seriously, search for the video Sanjay C did, and composer cloud is a good start for little money. Be well.
To each his own. I have used this library for years, read the manual more times than I can count, and I still stick with what I say, for many different reasons. I have not found a single composer cloud tutorial that goes in depth with the samples, what they mean, and how to get the most out of them, but the videos are quite good in making you want to own all the libraries... This video was created out of my own frustration on how difficult it was to clearly understand how to use this library. And this difficulty is well known fact within the composer community.
You saved me from certain frustration and most likely from a hopeless surrender. I am not a music professional and every hour saved is of great value to me that have not much time to devote to this passion. Thank you very much, I gladly subscribed to your channel with the hope that you can share other valuable videos like this one.
I like to save people their frustration. :) I do know what you mean, and a lot of my videos are fueled from having the same feeling. Happy to have you onboard!
Clear, precise, with a perfect pronunciation that as a foreigner I was able to understand very well. You explained everything calmly and in a pleasant way, you talked about the negative points without being biased. Your video was very useful to me and it was nice to listen to you, thank you
Oh, thank you. Good to know, I often find that my accent, and at times grammatical errors make it hard to understand. I have worked a lot to improve this in newer videos, but I am happy it was still clear.
Cheers!
Thank You SOOOOOOOOOO much for the articulations tip #10 You don't know how much this has made my life easier....
Great! That was the point. I am happy it worked. Thanks for letting me know. :)
I work with EWQL for 10 Years now. This video was so well explained. I like to work without the Experession map though, because I want to see everything at once. BTW. Subscribed!
I'm happy to hear that. Yes, having the articulations separated have que a few perks work this library
If you don't agree with how I use the samples, and "what they mean", that is fine. go with what works for you of course. It doesn't mean that "I don't understand the manual" or "the correct way" of using these samples. Trust me, I do, but they way you use/mold the samples is in fact a personal experience, both in terms of what you want, and then in terms of limiting frustrations and extra work. There are tons of samples in this library you truly don't need to produce great music, but you still have the option to do so, if you have the time to nitpick forever. Most producers I know, don't have this time, and most people can't tell the difference between them in a full mix.
This video is trying to dispel the complexity, and sometimes frustrations, the library gives a newer user. These difficulties are well known in the composer community, and also the fact that EastWest provides little to none of a thorough and helpful explanation of how the samples actually work, and what they mean, in any video out there. The manual is not much more clear in fact.
No other string library has done it this way, and there is a reason for that...
The list of patches that I have provided in the description is a really good start, but you are very free to use them as you like.
The example of the attack samples in the legatos, doesn't mean they "are meant" for staccatos, they are an extra attack at the start, but you could use it that way if you like. Still, as I say, it is not the best way.
Cakewalk (by Bandlab, formerly known as Sonar) now have Articulation maps. Creative Sauce did a tutorial about that 2 weeks ago.
Ok, really good know. I am glad this is not just a cubase feature.
YES!!!! I use Cakewalk as well so that is GREAT to know!
@@bethanylovely2251 Glad I chose to use it lol
What a brilliant explanation. That should be official tutorial for EWHO. My main confusion about HO was the complexity of use. I thought you need to use dozens of tracks for specific instrument to program it like you want but you showed it is simpler than I thought and I watched a lot of HO videos and while they convinced me to the sound they did not convince me about the worklow. Thank you!
Great! Yes, I thought this was needed. My video on two ways of composition explains "the other" way of doing it with several tracks. Some people like that too. Cheers!
Incredibly helpful -- I will be refering back to this video alot. Thank you so much for your easy to understand expanations.
Thank you for your comment. I will try to make more videos like this one.
You sir just made me give Hollywood Strings a new chance! I always thought the sounds where stellar, but as soon as I touched the Play engine and saw all the choices, my creative soul was crushed :-P Now I have a guide to try to make a usable patch with the things that I need, then only need to dive deeper into the articulation folders whenever I need some special thing the main patch can't handle. Great stuff! Thanks :-) And as a Logic user, I can confirm that you can make articulation sets a midi channel, but unsure if you can make one that bridges several midi channels like you do...
That is great to hear! Yes, Hollywood is a handful, but when you get your head around it, you can create quite impressive music still. Cheers!
Thanks for this. I’ve used EW Hollywood series for about 5 years and I’ve owned most of them before composer cloud became a thing, so not looking at a subscription. But after all this time, I still find it to be a fantastic sounding library which I am still very keen to learn more about (still lol). For example, I just found the trombone’s slide patch recently... sounds awesome for a certain sound.
I agree with you on most of your points, on its strengths and weaknesses (strings, perc and brass vs woodwinds and solos), but your tips have been great and looks like a cool channel to sub to. I use Studio One which has a new key switch automation lane, so I think it might be a good workaraound for that last tip.
I just purchased BBC Symphonic Orchestra and, although it’s a lot easier to use and understand, I found many more disappointments than I would’ve liked after being spoiled (in a good way) by EW.
Thank you. Yes, if one can survive all the problems that EW play comes with, it is still actually one of the better orchestra libraries out there. It feels strange that such an old library just isn't really matched yet by anyone. BBC is good, but you are not the first one to say exactly that. Let's see what Opus will do.
I stayed for the whole 48 minutes, and I don't even have Composer Cloud. Subscribed in the 48th minute.
Alright. I wish you all the best with that. And hopefully you have some idea on how to start now. Cheers!
@@SecondTierSound I meant that it was an excellent video...enough to make me subscribe. Happy New Year.
@@slowpokeproductions Oh, thank you! I meant that with my first message, but thanks for clarifying. Maybe I could be a bit more clear. Cheers!
Also, please do more tutorials on how to actually use the patches and make them sound good :D. Im defenitly subscribing.
Ok, I will take that into account. Cheers!
Agreed... full scoring sessions, even if they take dags, would be awesome as well.
Saved to favorites. I bought this years ago and shortly after gave up. I'm going to give this another try.
It does have some more to give. More videos about the library is in the works. And also make sure you exclude the library from the you virus software.
Thank you SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo much for posting this!!!!! Well thought out, and incredibly helpful! I subscribed. :)
Thank you! That makes happy. Yes, I needed this info myself a while ago.
Fantastic video, the part about using expression maps has just changed my workflow. I was going the long way around this for years
Great! Thank you for letting me know. Happy new year!
Why I haven't seen this video before?
What a great explanation!
Now I understand better how to use this library!
Well, you found me now. 😊
Oh wow! This is a game changer! I'm new to DAWs and composing and recently subscribed to Composer Cloud. I looked at the instructions that came with the instruments and was a little overwhelmed to say the least. This video just cleared it all up in a matter of minutes. Tip 10 is a huge bonus but well worth watching the whole video because its a goldmine of tips and advice. You have a new subscriber! I'm going to look at your videos now to see if you have some Cubase tips/tutorials. Thank you so much for an excellent resource :)
I am very happy to hear that. Part of my drive to do this is just that, to help with all the stuff that confused me at one point. Cheers!
@@SecondTierSound I've copied your Violins 1 patch (from Tip 9) and the Expression Map from (Tip 10), but I just wondered if you are able to share your other Patch Masters for the various parts of the orchestra because its such a good way for someone like me who is new to this to be set up in a way which makes it all more intuitive. Even just seeing screenshots of you patch masters would be useful so I can recreate them. Really appreciate your time and effort and your support.
@@GavinNellist Why not? I just have to figure out how. any good ideas? Just make sure you have plenty of RAM though, I think they will take about 25 gigs all loaded up.
@@SecondTierSound hey that would be great thank you. How about a short video showing your patches which could be paused? Or maybe some screen shots on Instagram maybe?
@@GavinNellist Ah, of course. I wasn't thinking about a video. Sure, I'll see what I can do.
One tip I wish I knew from the first day I started using EW products is to add your EW libraries folder to the exceptions/excluions in the Windows Antivirus/Firewall. For me it divided load times by 10, not kidding.
Yes, I know this is fantastic. Thanks for letting us all know. I had planned to add this to a future video. I will add it anyway, because you are right, it makes a huge difference, and the more who know this, the better. Cheers!
There is a plug-in called BRSO Articulate for FL Studio that can similarly help like your #10 in that DAW.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing this!
Tremendously valuable knowledge here in. THANKS!
Thank you!
Really useful video, very well-presented. Many thanks.
Thank you!
Thank you so much for this. I just subscribed to CCX and this video was godsent! Subscribed, and also you write some incredible music!!
Thank you very much. I am happy I can be of any help.
Excellent explanation of the library, thank you very much for the tips 👍
Thank you for watching!
All the thing is kv master presets in Opus..You can map all the articulations with keyboard..I love Opus so much,the Opus engine is incredible.
I do agree with most of the things you said. I would just single out Storm Drums 3 as another good library from the package. For people who want to write more then orchestral Voices of Soul, Hollywood Pop Brass, Backup Singers, the pianos and many others are also worth looking at. Buying them adds up pretty quickly, so it might be worth just keeping up the subscribtion (I do that and slowly buy up the ones I want).
In Reaper there is Reaticulate which is a lot like Expression maps in Cubase.
Great additions. I agree. Yeah, the subscription is not bad at all, you do get a lot of libraries, and quite a few are very useful, especially the ones you are mentioning. If you have no piano at all, the ones in the subscription are ok, but on the whole I wouldn't say they hold up compared to most pianos out on the market today. Could also be that I am particularly picky about my pianos...
Awesome you mentioned Reaticulate! I think also that FL studio has something similar. Cheers!
This is a fantastic video! I have now subscribed!
Thank you Mark. I am very happy to hear that. More good stuff coming soon. Cheers!
A solution for the harp glissando is to play on white keys and then transfer it. For example a glissando in Ab , record in C and then transfer a Major 3rd down. Same for any mode.
Yes, that is a great solution that works well. If you want to be accurate though in terms of pedaling a harp, it wouldn't be totally accurate that way, but that is nitpicking, and probably most people don't hear this difference. You would need a harp like the one found in for example cinesamples to do it that way.
Thank you for this! I got into all of this back in the days of Cakewalk and Mark of the Unicorn, when the code was slow and dodgy, documentation was terrible, and sound samples came on hardware. I'm only at this late date discovering tutorials like yours -- though I can cut myself some slack, you only posted this a little over a year ago. I also picked Cuebase years ago, and still learned nifty tricks from your video. Again, thank you!
I did decide to go with the composer cloud subscription, because of the constant stream of upgrades and new samples that E/W keeps turning out.
Thank you for letting me know. Yes, there are quite a few improvements.
@@SecondTierSound I'm just starting to play with Opus, but one HUGE bonus is that it has a feature that displays ALL of the controllers which each sample recognizes, along with descriptions. Catalogued online documentation, if you will, on a sample-by-sample basis.
Yes, they made it a lot easier on this one
I never used the expression maps before, because of KeySwitch patches, but the way you use it seem very, well... Useful, and less work than putting all the keyswitch notes in the bottom of the midi region. Thanks fo the tip!
Yes, it makes this library more fun for sure
Really helpful video!
Great video. Have you checked out the new opus version of hollywood orchestra? Just tested the strings and there are really crazy, I own the EW symphonic orchestra gold for around ten years, but also struggled pretty much with it and hadn`t the knownledge and experience to get much out of it. But now, I got really deep into the manuals, the new tutorials on the east west youtube channel and especially the "spaces II" reverb outside the library, first time, I really can achive,what I wanted all the years, the different mic postions bring everything to a whole new level (but it`s no beginner stuff).
Yes. In fact I have made videos about Opus on this very channel. And this video was made a while ago, before the opus existed. Cheers!
Beautiful video. You inspired me to change my workflow. I used mainly keyswitches patches but now i want to try your approach. Thanks.
Fantastic! That is great to hear. Yes, see what works best. Now you know two ways at least. It also depends on the library. Cheers!
Great! Thank you so much for this!
Liked and subscribed!
Greetings from London!
Thank you Puli!
@@SecondTierSound - You’re welcome! :)
Thank God (and you) for this video...
Thank you🙂
What an excellent walkthrough! I hope you're ready for Hollywood Orchestra OPUS which will probably address some of the dated annoyances (like the confusing abbreviations).
Yes, I am definitely waiting for that. Cheers!
Very nice video. With Cakewalk's articulation maps, you create a map for whatever instruments you load into your synth. Here's a thread about it on the Cakewalk forums that shows you exactly how to do it. It works (I just tried it). They have .ewi files and .artic files for the example given.
Thank you! And excellent help from you. Glad it works in more DAWs.
I can't seem to see the thread, did you post it?
great review , Thank you
You're welcome!
Hi! I bought Hollywood Orchestra Gold about 5 years ago, and I was quite frustrated with the number of presets and the difficulty of recording anything... Then I purchased many other libraries from different manufacturers, and for the last few years, I basically haven't used East West at all. However, recently, I've started rediscovering this library. I've learned how to use it, and I've found a plethora of sounds and articulations that are completely unavailable in all other libraries combined... You could say I've fallen in love with this library all over again. :) I'm considering getting an upgrade to the full Opus version on the upcoming Black Friday since I have the old version of Play from 5 years ago, and it's the gold edition (meaning without additional microphones). Although Opus is on sale now, I'm hoping for an even bigger discount on Black Friday, and I'll definitely make the purchase then. :) Thanks for this tutorial!
I have a review on Opus. It is the same library, just with a few added bonuses and a bit better interface. Check it out
Excellent walkthrough. thank you.
You're welcome!
I've actually already subscribed to the EW Opus but what you say is correct.
This video is great. I'm in the middle of my first orchestral album, and have been running into a number of various problems with the patches. I'll take a fresh look at some of the choices I made.
I'm happy to hear that. Good luck with the album!
I found this video very helpful. Thank you very much!
Great! I very much appreciate that! Cheers!
you can use logic articulation sets to do the same thing as #10
Thank you. Good to know
Thank you very much. Great insights
You're welcome
Really good tutorial! Thank You!!!
Thank you Avraham!
Informative and good video. Thanks
Thank you for watching!
Very helpful, thank you! *subscribed*
Thanks Jonathan!
I just subscribe to CC tonight and i am a bit discourage about the size of the Hollywood strings opus version, a whopping 414 GB and i am only talking about the strings since all other library are also gigantic in size and to get the necessary instruments for a full orchestra you need at least 2 TB drive, this is insane! They should make a light version of each of these libraries with only necessary patch to make decent scoring.
It's a big library, but iit fits on 1TB. You don't need 2. The other libraries are smaller.. The strings have a lot of articulations, plus mic positions.
If you don't end up liking it, you can always cancel the subscription, and you haven't lost that much.
The x version of the library is smaller, with less mics and different sample rate, while the plus had all mics plus higher bitrate, hence needs more hard drive space
Looking forward to the new opus edition coming out this year
Yeah, me too. But I wonder when? They seem a little late...
Just cause i ve searched about that , NV NV NV VB means that the 3 lower strings or the violins dont have vibrato and when you touch the higher voices and trigger the first string than you get a vibrato. NV NV VB MB is no vibrato for the 2 lower strings D and G , 2nd string A has a vibrato and 1st string E has a molto vibrato. Hope that helps!
Hello! Maybe I misunderstand you, but the letters in this case stands for what kind of vibrato is used in the dynamic layer. That is, the modulation is divided into 4 layers of dynamics with vibrato baked in. The first example you give means that there is no vibrato until the loudest (4th) dynamic layer, and the second that there is a smaller vibrato in the third dynamic layer, and then a stronger vibrato at the fourth. This has nothing to do with what string or how many notes you play.
It wasn't clear to me in the beginning either, and I just figured it out by testing a lot.
Cheers!
FYI When downloading and installing you need double the drive space - one space for the zips and another for the unistalled folders. If your drive is say 1 TB, then download the biggest folder only first (that's about 400 gb) so you will need 800 gb for instal but once installed and the zips gone, the space will reduce to 400 gb. Do this again for the next biggest and so forth.
I did not have that problem actually. And you don't have to install all at once.
tips: you need a separate 1-2 TB SSD drive to use and download all the libraries. (For Hollywood you only need less)
I had to invest to upgrade my computer.
Good and informative video, thanks a lot for that! Have you tried Native Instruments orchestral library?
Yes, I have. There is a lot to say about it, but to be quick, If you have Komplete, it is a nice addition. But for the asking price, is just doesn't hold up to what is out there on the market today. It is overpriced and doesn't have a lot of good features, and a below average legato. It is still has some nice samples and sounds, and a fairly straightforward interface.
In Logic Pro X you can use ArticulationID, similar to expression maps in Cubase (and Dorico)
Ah, this is fantastic! I am happy this can be done in other DAWs as well. Thanks!
@@SecondTierSound mind sharing that link to the article?;-)
@@yramhossoo8586 What are you referring too?
Great Video! Tip Number 10 is indeed great advice :)! What is your favorite virtual instrument for solo instruments (since you say that EastWest is not to be recommended for these)?
Well, look at fluffy audio for solo winds. I think Cinematic Studio solo strings is outstanding. Also, Embertone has some great solo instruments. I am sure there are others, but at the back of my mind, that is what I think of right now. Cheers!
For got to mention you can you expression maps in reaper using reaticulate plugin, with East West libraries. There is a video on it ua-cam.com/video/GAmaoKYjj4/v-deo.html One advantage of reaticulate is you can send multiple CCs / notes and UACC per articulation, which allows for a bit come flexibility in how it can be used.
Cheers! Link doesn't work, but thank you for providing the tip.
EWHO Woodwinds is a library with solo instruments only. The old EWSO had groups built with e.g. 2 or 3 instruments. Except flutes all instruments seem to be individual ones. How do you double or triple them like in a real orchestra?
Great question! I am thinking this could maybe be a video. But, yes, it is not that easy to create groups in Hollywood. Most real orchestras have two of each wind instrument, more or less.
I would say that because of the problems that EW Hollywood has (phasing, sounding like there are two instruments), it is ok to use only ONE solo patch for "two" instruments, because it kind of sounds like there are two players.
If you need to divide the parts, just use a "long" patch. This is actually quite realistic as there are no more than two of each instrument. The problems is when you want only ONE voice.
And a patch of three voices in the bassoon wouldn't really work if you are going for realism.
Another potential problem is that solo patches grouped together doesn't always work so well, both because of tuning and phasing. You would have to experiment with panning and volumes. To be honest, when it comes to group patches, I use another library: Hollywoodwinds by Cinesamples is truly excellent here.
Hollywood winds by EW does have a few variations too, like flute 2, English horn, and Eb Clarinet that can add some variation to the sound, instead of doubling.
Lastly, you could create a patch yourself by loading up, let's say piccolo, flute, oboe (maybe bassoon) all using the same midi channel, so that they all play together as a performance patch.
EW did go for realism more than most libraries had done, and I would say, still today. If you think about it, the "2 voices" per instrument" approach, it is the most logical and actually suits the library rather well, even though it seems like it was intended as a solo instrument. I don't think it is a true solo library. Perhaps they had the idea of creating that later. We'll see what happens with OPUS.
LONG answer! :) I can't stop myself sometimes
@@SecondTierSound Thank you for the answer. Most of my projects are semi pop/orchestral so EWSO Platinum was more than enough for my needs. Recently I had to create an instrumental version of one of the older song recorded with the orchestra. EWSO sounded too modern for it and I started a project with NI Symphony Series (I've got Komplete 12 Ultimate Collector's Edition). Sounded nice, warm but there was a problem with woodwinds and their articulations vs tempo changes. I usually start such projects by creating a tempo map as close as possible to the original song. Because this original song was recorded live it had a lot of tempo changes. It was the first time I got high CPU spikes every tempo change caused in a Kontakt instance playing Oboes. I suppose it uses host tempo in the scripts to change trills, crescendos etc. What's interesting, I wasn't able to reproduce the problem in a new - test - project. Nothing helped - reloading instrument, the Kontakt instance, restarting Cubase (10 Pro), or even changing the host (Nuendo 10). So I gave up and bought CC Plus from EW. I've finished the project with HO Woodwinds and their solo oboe. But before I started using it I haven't noticed EW HO Woodwinds was solo instruments library :) Anyway, it's a very good library. Btw., before I've found your great video I've created a template with almost the same articulations you suggest to use :) All these slurs lite 12, MOD speeds etc. :) Thank you for your advices. I think I can mix EWSO with Hollywood Orchestra in the woodwind parts, but you're right - let's wait for the Opus edition, maybe we'll got new sounds.
You’ve gained another subscriber! Question: what is the process for recording trumpet harmonies using the 1 TP Leg Slur patch? I found that the only way I can record trumpet harmonies is by using the solo trumpet patch. Your help will be greatly appreciate it. Thanks.
I need a little more info to understand exactly what you mean. Why just solo patch? You could use the long patch too, but then you wouldn't get the legatos, but wouldn't need separate tracks. If you want a bigger sound you could use a patch with more instruments too.
The process otherwise it's too sketch something out with the piano, a note pad, or a longs patch, then disperse the (usually three) voices to different trumpets. More or less. Trumpets can have a close voicing if needed.
@@SecondTierSound thanks for the quick response. When I tried to record my voicings in 2 separate tracks using the 1 tp leg slur I was not able to (i.e. 3rds) nor could I in a single track. Is the patch monophonic? I have Hollywood Orchestra Diamond. I noticed the same thing with 1 TB leg slur. I’m new to this. Thanks for your patience .
No worries. All legato patches can only have one voice at a time. Only non legato patches can play several voices.
Can confirm that you can set up articulation sets with midi-channel key-switches in Logic X :-) Just made my "1. violins patch", and it works perfectly thus far, and the playability feel great! Eats a lot of RAM though, especially when I include the close mice in GoldX, as I like a detailed sound. Just wondering, why do you include both the "short MOD speed LS" and the "stac slur LS"? They sound pretty similar to me only the MOD contain more options with the use of CC1, what do you use stac slur for?
Great to hear that! Well, you might be right, and if you found a way to save RAM, right on! Personally, I find that the StacSlurs are really awesome for quick passages, and it just adds a little realism with some "legato" between notes. But it could be that no one cares, lol. Just a picky composer...
@@SecondTierSound will test the stac slur again to see if they fill my needs or just my RAM 😉 Thanks for the tip!
since you asked: the expression maps are equivalent to articulations sets in Logic Pro or just setting midi channels. The gem with EW is to set numerical key commands to quickly change instruments and articulations. Now what Cubase does not has is... midi environment? There lays the gold, principally now if Opus. I am still speculating , setting my template and deciding how i gonna do things; yes, is a lot of work this part, but pays off, if you want to really work in the limits of the possible and according to your way.
*The opus woodwinds should work with legato now, and is after all other samples a huuuuge download, fuck. I bought 1T ssd and it is gone
Thanks for your input. Yes, the entire library almost fills up a TB
Hi. most of your woodwind patches are for solo instruments. The few orchestras I've played in had multiple instruments of each part (i.e. 2 each clarinet 1, 2, 3 - depending on availability). Will using solo instruments give a similar sound to grouped instruments? ( I'm still a novice. )
I really enjoy your videos. They are clear and thorough. I started a trial of Cubase based on you video of expression maps. CW was driving me crazy...
Thank you for your kind words.
Most libraries both have solo patches, and ensemble patches. Even though it might seem like a good idea to use, for example, 2 separate solo patches to create a duo, it usually doesn't sound that great. It is better to use a patch that has two (or more) players instead, already recorded in the sound. So most libraries have a few options of more players, or sometimes ensemble patches where all the players are playing. For example all the woodwinds, or all the strings, etc. This can really help in the writing process, and speed up the work quite a bit, but does lack a bit in detail, and in general doesn't include legato.
Thanks for the response, that's what I thought (hence the question.) I could not find most of the patches in your suggestions in the OPUS libraries for multiple players. some i was not able to find at all (Leg Slur VS Full Ni, Sus NV VB Full Ni). I have an update subscription. BTW I'm not just being a lazy bum, I've read the descriptions in the manual, but I want to start with suggestions from experience.
Well, it depends on what review you have watched. I have some older videos of the PLAY engine, where the patch names are a bit different to the OPUS engine. I also have a review of the OPUS engine. It's the same library, just that the patch names have changed somewhat. Also, depending on what version of the library you have, i.e. gold or diamond you also get different patches.
NEW OPUS SOFTWARE ENGINE COMING SOON! INTERFACE IS AMAZINGLY SIMPLE TO USE! :)
Well, when it is coming out? I'm excited, but it does look like the interface is quite similar to the old play
@@SecondTierSound Hopefully soon! :) Check it out here... jump to 5:45 www.soundsonline.com/hollywood-orchestra-opus-edition
@@LightWingStudios I think we all know about it and where to find it. But it seems to be on hold for the moment. So, I am not holding my breath, especially since there has been no announcement from EastWest about when they will release this. They obviously are having some problems.
@@SecondTierSound It's been in the works for 5 years so we can wait a little longer. :)
Thank you for this! I have searched for something similar for so long. I thing EW has not really made heir product accessible for non professionals. But this helped alot. A question, regarding divisi. Is the idea that you should not play more than one note at the time for each player then but rather have different groups play the different notes, in a chord for example?
Yes, normally each section of the string family plays a note, creating a chord, which gives you 5 notes (violin1, violin 2, viola, cello and bass) Divisi gives you more chords notes you could say, or different textures if you don't want to use the whole string family for a chord. Normally, a section all plays unison (mostly), but you can divide the section (divisi) so that a section plays 2, or even 3 parts. Two parts in a section is the most common. But Mozart sometimes did more for example.
Cheers!
@@SecondTierSound omg I've watched so many tutorials on orchestration and no one brought this up. This explains so much. Thanks.
We are all now waiting for EW HO Opus www.soundsonline.com/news , and see what that brings
Yes, I am definitely waiting for that! I am hoping to do a review of it eventually.
Great video! I wonder if you've experimented around with any of the metropolis ark or albion libraries. What, if anything, do you think sets the ewql hollywood orchestra apart from these other big libraries?
I have more experience with Albion, and have tried Ark a little. EastWest is in my mind a library that can do pretty much all you through at it, but requires a lot more work. Albion and the Ark series are a little more specific in terms of genre, but are very fast composing tools.
So, they are not the same kind of libraries, and are hard to compare. Hollywood is a complete Orchestra (more or less) with very detailed articulations,. Albion and the Arks are not that detailed but are both very good high quality libraries.
@@SecondTierSound You replied quick! That's a good insight! The hollywood orchestra seems pretty awesome. Have you used any of the EWQLSO packs? Like gold or platinum?
@@kaboomatar I'm sorry I missed this one. I don't really know what you mean with packs. I use the Hollywwod orchestra diamond myself, which means more mic positions, higher bitrate and divisi. In terms of subscriptions it is the same. If you are talking about specific libraries, I think that EW is not worth it beyond Hollywood, their ethnical libraries and stormdrum. For the rest I find the quality and/or price not matching other libraries out there.
my friend had the EWQLSO silver library. it looks like they don't offer that one any more but gold and platinum were the next levels up.
I played around with silver and it was super nice quality. the sounds were really good and there were so many articulations, so I was wondering if there were any major differences in the sound out of the box with the hollywood library.
so many libraries these days it's hard to pick :)
here's a link to the library i'm talking about, btw
www.soundsonline.com/symphonic-orchestra
actually I know the Hollywood library is much more recent, so based off that alone i'm sure the sounds are better quality than the older stuff. so i'm definitely leaning more towards that as i'm expecting it to be even closer to cinematic-quality sound out of the box. hence the name, hollywood =p
Thank you so much for the awesome videos. Is any way to map expression as shown at the end of the video in Pro Tools?
Thank you. I don't know, as I'm no prototools expert, but i think someone mentioned it in the comments if you look around. There should be a way to do something similar, in pretty sure.
I personally already own komplete 13 ultimate collector edition which already bundles the symphony series and other cool stuff so i'm not sure i'd need the hollywood orchestra however i'm kinda interested by their hollywood choirs as that's what komplete lacks
Yes, perhaps not. I personally find the Hollywood a bit better for orchestra, but the symphony series is ok too. It depends on what you need it for. Komplete is truly excellent, but not so much for orchestra.
I have a video about the choirs that eastwest makes
@@SecondTierSound I am not sure honestly I did hear comparisons and native instrument's stuff does sound very good and can compete in my opinion
i also own metropolis ark 3 which kinda adds to what's bundled as well
To each his own. Metropolis arc is not a native instrument product and has nothing to do with komplete, but is an excellent library för a big orchestral sound.
Thank you for your work, it's very useful!
I have one question for you, I guess the question is asked many times, but If you compare Hollywood Orchestra Diamond and the Spitfire BBC Pro, in your opinion, which is better?
It is a good question, not easily answered. They are good at different things, but bbc is more updated, and have solved quite a bit of problems, partially being a newer library, and it also has better woodwinds. But Hollywood is still more detailed and complete, and it is saying quite a lot that a much older library like that can still keep up. Hollywood is also a lot cheaper, not just the subscription. If i had the money today, and I had no orchestral library, I probably would have bought bbc. But I'm not unhappy with Hollywood, and it can do what I want. And the strings are amazing. It is also about learning how a library functions to get the most out of it. We'll see what happens with the upcoming Opus though.
@@SecondTierSound thank you for such a detailed answer. And it's great that you gave your opinion on strings of Hollywood Orchestra. It was because of the strings that I was interested in your opinion in terms of comparison, since brass and wood suit me down to the ground in BBC. But the strings, in my opinion, sound a little unnatural in runs. And at the same time Hollywood strings sound like real bunch of players plaing right here and right now just in front of you. No hint of fake sound. Especially when playing fast passages. This is just amazing for me!
Yep, even though a little cumbersome, the strings are real good.
Hello. How many days does it take from the time you purchase ComposerCloud to download the first plugin? 10,20,30?
Well, it should work immediately, unless you ordered the hard drive. Talk to support.
Hi Sam! What hardware faders options do you recommend? My digital piano doesn't have a fader to adjust articulations and dynamics.
It's a big topic. But the problem is that most faders are ridiculously overpriced. The nanokey by korg is actually totally ok for the price, but not amazing. I think otherwise that arturia and native instruments have nice keyboards with good controllers, albeit arturia has more options. I also use cc121 which is fantastic, but that is cubase specific and more about channel control, not dynamics.
I can't truly recommend anything because it is mostly too expensive and not good enough. It is a missing piece
@@SecondTierSound thank you anyway!
You might do better with smaller keyboards. They are pretty well equipped and cost less than most dedicated controller faders.
I cant even imagine how to orchestrate without heavy key switching.
I know what you mean. But there are other ways. I have a video on it in fact. But of course, do what works best for you.
What are the problems with the solo violin and cello? Im not finding any.
Well, that is of course a preference. If you are happy with it, all the power to you. Personally, I don't find it holds up in quality, comparing both to the rest of the Hollywood libraries, but especially the solo libraries that are out on the market today. Perhaps I am too picky? :)
But there are no specific "problems" per se. Just a bit outdated.
Cheers!
Thank you for this! Really helps! Just some quick questions:
1. Will you be reviewing the new Hollywood Opus Edition and seeing if they fixed each of the problems you mentioned? It would be greatly appreciated!
2. Also, you mentioned that the solo instruments are not as good. I'm not sure which ones you meant. Do you mean the ones that are separete product downloads, like the two Solo Cello and Solo Violin, or did you mean solo instrument presets within each of the Orchestra section downloads, like within the entire Strings download or Brass download.
2b. If you didn't mean the latter, how do those solo presets perform?
3. Finally, which libraries would you recommend for solo instruments?
Thank you! A lot of questions.
1. I aim to get hold of Opus, but it is not out yet. Sooner or later.
2/3. I mean the separate solo instruments that are not in included in the Hollywood Orchestra. In my mind they do not hold up. There are a lot of good solo libraries out there, look at for example embertone, cinematic studio series, OrchestraTools and Fluffy audio. There are more.
Cheers!
@@SecondTierSound Thank you I will research these for sure! What do you think of Spitfire libraries by the way? Also, check out my other comment! I hope it can help!
@@dragonwarden3285 Spitfire is good, they are great, but not my favorite
@@SecondTierSound Yes, East West of course! *wink*
So is composer cloud mainly for composing movie scores and commercials ? Would komplet 13 be a better choice for creating music in modern genres ?
You can do pretty much what you want with composer cloud, because the libraries found in there cover pretty much everything you need, but I would also say that composer cloud is much better at orchestral stuff than komplete. Komplete also covers a lot of genres, and has a lot of newer libraries that are better than the ones in composer cloud. So, they can both do a lot, but are also specialized. Hollywood orchestra in composer cloud is far superior to any orchestral library in komplete, but Komplete has a lot more to offer for electronic music for example. Composer cloud is also a lot more friendly for the wallet.
Hi! I am considering subscribing to the composer cloud, but I have a question. So, if I subscribe to the composer cloud and download a library. Will I be able to use that after my subscription ends or do I have to be subscribed to use the library? Thanks!
No, that is the thing. When you finish the subscription, you will loose everything. The only way to "keep" your work is to render the tracks you have created. That is why it is a good idea to save up to the libraries you like. But the subscription is a great way to try them out first, just not a great idea to keep year after year.
@@SecondTierSound ohhh okay. Thank you for the reply :)
Really helpful video! Just a question about the template you've outlined in the description: Am I right in assuming that you are using Diamond? And the same in the video, when you refer to the violin combined instrument adding up to roughly 1.5g of RAM? I'm just trying to get an idea how much the full template (Again, the one from the YT description box) might take using Gold or Diamond.
Many thanks :)
Hello, It is a little different, depending on what instrument you use. The biggest patches are the legato patches, and the string ones in the diamond library are up 1.5 gig more or less, for the most advanced ones. I actually don't know at the moment, but I think the strings is the worst offender.
Yes, I use diamond. The patches I use, are not unique to diamond and can be used in gold as well. But there should be less memory usage, because diamond is 24 bit sampling, and gold 16 bit. I used gold before myself, and remember the biggest patches being around 1 gig, but I don't have any exact details.
When I load up my template that contains all the patches listed, plus percussion, a piano and choir that is not from EASTWEST, my memory usage is about 25 gig. But I am not sure how much that is EASTWEST and what is the OS. Still, my conclusion is that you need 32 GIGs of RAM to have all this comfortably, perhaps even more is even better.
Still, I used EASTWEST before I had that kind of memory, and it worked fine. I just had to freeze instruments more often, I just couldn't run everything at once.
Cheers!
@@SecondTierSound Thank-you so much for your detailed and helpful reply.
It seems like your 'remembered' experience of the difference in RAM footprint is close to what I've read elsewhere i.e that Gold uses approximately 30% less. That would mean (and I'm only approximating, here) that your full template would come in around 17gigs. After considering my OS, I have about 12gig to play with (Can't expand past 16g on my current computer).
So, in the end, I could probably manage to load 60-70% of your template. This seems fine for me. As I would be using the library to learn how to orchestrate, I wouldn't need everything constantly on, anyway. And because Logic allows plugins to remain in place while removing the resource consumption, i can just click them on and off as needed. I also have no problem bouncing and freezing, as necessary.
Anyway, thanks again. Your answer has definitely given me more confidence to explore the possibility, Will probably take a month or two of the Composer Cloud to make sure I am into it :D
All the best!
@@el-bov8034 I'm very happy to hear that. Yes, you don't need all the patches, and certainly not all loaded at the same time. Cheers!
@@SecondTierSound Cheers! :D
When does this bad boy go on sale?
Composer cloud? Quite often. Opus orchestra? i don't know. They had an introductory price. But since it is quite new it probably won't be on a sale a whole ton. But the cloud version is a really good idea if you just want to check it out a month.
This tutorial is fantastic! Thank you for posting this. I had a question for you. I wrote some ragtime pieces and no matter how hard I try, I can’t get it to sound good with the composercloud sounds. It sounds fine with the piano sounds but if I try to add anything more it just sounds wrong. Am I missing something?Any recommendations?
Again, thank you so much for posting this
I would have to see this in order to tell you. In general i think that Hollywood Orchestra and the ethnic libraries are good, but not the others. It really matters his you use them, but Eastwest is not the only library out there. Also check out my other videos in this series to learn more specifically about the patches.
@@SecondTierSound thank you for your reply I appreciate it. I will definitely check out your other videos. Looking forward to learning more from your videos :-)
Excellent video! You recommend a controller for expressions?
Yes, I do. It depends on what your keyboard has. A modwheel is excellent, but to have an extra fader or two, really makes a difference.
Cheers!
@@SecondTierSound Cool!!! And, do you recommend a particular model?
@@josephlandman6343 If money is an object, the Korg Nano Key is totally ok. There aren't too many options actually that aren't ridiculously priced. In general faders are better than rotary knobs.
hey my name is sam too
Samtastic!
Laughed at “powerful strings” because thats how we think that is
What do you mean the percussion isn't synced to tempo?
The rolls don't synch to the tempo in your DAW.
Do you know if Expression Maps is available in the Artist version of Cubase or is it only for Pro?
I believe it is only for pro. I did not think about that. But having articulations separately is actually quite good when it comes to EastWest Hollywood. There are some benefits.
@@SecondTierSound Okay, thanks for the response!
a clarinet? what? it sounds like a melodica :-) (they say the woodwinds are badly done.. that clarinet example demonstrated that perfectly)
Yep, the winds are not the best. But if it is all you've got you can still get some results out of it, with some work.
do you have any template sir? thanks in advance
Hello! I do use templates, yes. If you mean i have any for you, I do give my patrons templates, but I've also noticed that templates are hard to share since you have to have pretty much the exact same setup for it to function properly.
Cheers!
@@SecondTierSound or maybe you can share the preset for PLAY sir? i am so desperate in making the best EWHO here ... regards
Well, that is for my patrons I'm afraid, but in the video description i show what I use. Again, presets only work if you have the exact same setup and engine version. For example if I have diamond, and you have gold it won't work.
Eastwest is great but beware once purchased items can’t be sold and licenses are non transferable it’s not an Ilok thing it’s their thing.You will be stuck with whatever you buy from them even if you don’t like it.
We really have to enforce refund policies for virtual instruments in general. If it works for games, why not virtual instruments
@@SecondTierSound Reply I didn’t even want the money back.I was hurt a while ago and I just wanted for my cousin to be able to take ownership of the products that I already paid for and they said no!
Will HO Gold run on 8 GB of RAM?
Yes, it will. But it all depends on how many instruments you run at the same time. I used to do this myself a while ago. It isn't great, but works
So basically it's a waste of money unelss I have a $500+ computer? Man the price to write classical music just keeps skyrocketing
I'm sorry, but 500 is a cheap computer. It has been way over 500 for a long time. You can of course get a used setup, and I think sanjay c has a great video about that. Search for it. But virtual instruments cost. Of course, composition cloud by eastwest is a good deal. And a piano and a pen and paper works really well. You don't need a computer at all to write music, I'm serious.
@@SecondTierSound $500 isn't cheap for paycheck-to-paycheck people 😂😂. Nothing against your video, to me it's just frustrating what the entry price is for this craft. It's paper/pencil and orchestration books now but man do I want some quality libraries eventually.
@@nicholas72611 I understand. I am not rich myself, and I have saved over a long time, slowly built up what I have. I myself feel frustration when I don't have the gear and the libraries I need, because of cost. But seriously, search for the video Sanjay C did, and composer cloud is a good start for little money. Be well.
Composer Cloud Tutorials way better than this. STsound needs to learn what this library is, why it's named, and how to use it.
To each his own. I have used this library for years, read the manual more times than I can count, and I still stick with what I say, for many different reasons. I have not found a single composer cloud tutorial that goes in depth with the samples, what they mean, and how to get the most out of them, but the videos are quite good in making you want to own all the libraries... This video was created out of my own frustration on how difficult it was to clearly understand how to use this library. And this difficulty is well known fact within the composer community.
Ethan id love see these tutorials. i have only seen demos of what great producers can do but very liitle about how.
Thank you so much for making this video! I’ve just stepped in to the EW stuff and this has helped so much!
That's great to hear. More videos on this topic is on the way. Cheers!
@@SecondTierSound fantastic! Thanks again!