I'm not a musician, but I am similar to that guy you described. Musicians would hang in my place because I have a music collection, and It was me who would open up their limited minds...hahaha.
Allan Wilson The production has always been great but now their are more possibilities with production that it’s sometimes like it’s changing a what music is a bit. For example, percussion can be foley samples, the sound design is more flexible with DAWs opposed to instruments. You have more access to sample and synth manipulation. It’s like what traditional instruments were used for in music can sometimes be replaced by a different type of sound, I’m not an expert but hear it in music I listen too.
When I was in the Metal Phase of my life that was all I listened to. Then I picked up the guitar and started playing with other guitarists it broadened my musical perspective. Now if I find the song good it didn't matter what genre it came from.
I think it's the overuse of autotune and the samey-ness of the productions. I mean, I love some old top 40, Olivia Newton John is my girl from about Totally Hot to The Rumour! They had a good point about the top 40 of the 70s compared to the 2000s. I don't think there's anything that doesn't follow a pattern or formula.
Same boat. Gave my notice to my band when they started covering way too much of the modern country stuff around today. Most of it is the cliche' "3 chords and a story" formula and completely unsuitable for my ears. It's hard not to think people are missing out on music that could give them a more profound experience, but they're probably not looking for it in the first place, unfortunately.
Before listening to the conversation: my answer was yes. After listening to the conversation: my answer is -- still yes. But it's absolutely not about vacuum tubes for me. I love the digital audio tools. It's about the songwriting. I too have noticed that audio production sounds great these past few years. But applying high quality production to an uninteresting song is like putting lipstick on a pig. On another Internet forum, I read a dialogue between a college music professor and one of his students. The professor told his student that he was a composer. The student answered, "oh, so you make beats?" That's the dividing line. Concerning women who play guitars: while there may be several new artists, let's not forget Ann and Nancy Wilson of Heart, who run circles around most modern players. Concerning songwriting in 2019: there are still many musicians who really do care about every note they write and play. They're not getting any press. 99 percent of the public has no idea who they are. But I am very grateful for them. And finally, in the closing few minutes, you guys hit the nail on the head: playing live with groups of musicians is SO valuable! This is something that ordinary adult life can take away from you, and I miss it.
a lot of people overlook that closing part. Just because none of the music we want to hear isn't on the radio doesn't mean it isn't there. Radio sucks, and I'm glad rock music isn't on it much anymore, rock music is about having balls. I'd rather just go to some local shows or listen to the underground stuff on the internet. That's where the guitar music flourishes.
Beautifully spoken. Nothing beats playing live. As far as production is concerned I'm glad we have it. I believe in the old rule : don't record something in the studio that you can't play live.
Live music is really the real deal. When you are in a little club or your living room hearing a song being shared for the first time...it is like witnessing a birth. In physic the explanation of vibration creating our perception of reality brings another dimension to the topic of music. Whatever camp of theory we find ourself in it can not be denied that we may not be able to adequatly describe what makes something great, but we know it when we hear it. ...and that is a beautiful and woderous experience.
There was finally a bunch of store employees that were ready to go on a strike, here, last year, cause of the christmas songs that looped over and over and over.
I agree, you like what moves you. I like rock, I don't like all rock. I like jazz, I don't like all jazz... on and on... I play in a band and I don't "like" every single song we play, but enough to play them and move other people.
My very first concert was Yes in 1977 in St. Louis. I remember I was just old enough to drive. My head is still reverberating. Jon Anderson and company still color my world. RIP Chris Squire, one of the best bass players ever.
Great discussion!! It's hard to listen to a lot of pop music when your ears are trained. My dad was a professional muso and like Rick did with his son, I was ear training at a young age. My first gig was when I was in kindergarten and the band was the Sydney Symphony Orchestra because dad was in the pit playing and we couldn't afford a babysitter. I listen to all kinds of music, from Manson to Mozart, but pop has changed over the years as technology has advanced. Nowadays all the edges are rounded off music, it is highly polished and what we are hearing is a kind of artificiality. Tempo's are strict, the same snare sample is used through out, and the vocals are processed to the point it is almost like a robot is vocalising. If a song is going to grab me, it has to have a sense of authenticity to it and that is what my ears are searching for. I love 90's hip hop like Dre's the Chronic, but when I compare that to modern Trap, it just doesn't give me the fizz like those earlier recordings. Instead of listening to a hot drummer and thinking, man that cat can play; I am thinking about how quantised everything is and focusing on the production instead of how the music makes me feel. I think I just want music to be dangerous again, I want it to make a statement and I long to hear the interplay between a great band and a talented producer. Having said that, it is all G if one is a music snob or a casual, each to their own. Thanks for the awesome content guys!
I'm a visual artist so I tend to make visual comparisons and what you said reminded me of the 90's and early 2000's when the first CG movies and shows started to be made, and everything was too perfect, lighting was too strict, edges were too sharp, characters were too symmetrical, and surfaces were just too smooth. It was all just too perfect, and false and fake, and now one really liked it very much. It made things seem childish and flat and boring. It seems to me that many people feel that is the way pop music is becoming, which to me is a strange direction to head for the music industry, especially since thanks to the internet it is so easy to find interesting stuff to listen to and for artist to find alternative means of making good stuff and to get paid for it.
Interesting take, I like some Trap, actually the more experimental future beats as it’s experimental with sound manipulation. I think trap has evolved hip hop but the sound would probably change in 10 years or so because it does kinda have a really formulaic sounds sometimes.
It's formulaic, repetitive, very derivative, there's little creativity or experimentation within popular music because record companies are about making money for themselves, and they're not driven by passion for the music. It's a product designed to sell to as broad an audience as possible now, not a craft. I think it's missing the love put into making it. Even the artists themselves became products. I think mainstream artists are not necessarily untalented, but are very limited in their artistic freedom to what will sell in the mainstream. Their music is factory made music, fast food culture. That's why I love the underground scene. It's so much more alive (even though you still get a lot of crap) because there's so much more freedom of expression in the music coming from there.
As a guitar teacher I can understand the anti pop music bias. Lots of my younger students request modern pop songs. I pull the song up on UA-cam " Ok the first part goes Am, F, C,G. The second part goes Am, F, C, G. Then stop playing during the rap. The 4th part goes Am, F, C,G but louder". (I never criticize the song to the kid)I don't find production interesting no matter how well done if the tune of the song sounds like a nursery rhyme and the background repeats thru the whole song.
I'm sure people though Yeah Yeah Yeah by the Beatles was the Gucci Gang (which is also the lyrics to the whole song) of the time. Country music was known as three chords and the truth. Punk was made fun of for its three chord progression. Old blues had the AAB vocal pattern to a I IV V chord progression.
Not complaining about the number of chords or simplicity there are plenty of genius 3 chord country and blues songs. "Get Up Stand Up" by Bob Marley has 1 chord and is an amazing song. To me a guy making a 4 chord repeating loop on a computer with auto tuned vocals is just not is good but That's just my opinion
@@Markstun isnt that song using the root but moving along a scale anyway? i mean a lot of songs that are 3 chords and more popular music use more chords but dont use their respective scales to create a more wholesome sound. Not sure if i'm screwing up some fundamental music theory with what i said.
I'm sure we all have music that we will listen to without ever tiring of. I wonder if you think I meant that I only listen to everything once....... Not at all. I try to listen to everything at least once but I've probably listened to Sgt Pepper for example ( the first lp I bought) at least 7,000 times and will never stop listening to it from time to time. When it was the only thing I had I was on it 10 times a day...Hahahaha
Remember the scene in High Fidelity where Jack Black teases the customer for wanting “I just called to say I love you”? That made me sad but apparently it also made Jack Black sad because he understands liking the song that wasn’t cool. I do too.
@@christophermeggison2986 With Vulfpeck, I like their heavy grooves, e.g., Tesla from Live at Madison Square Garden. The pocket is deep there. For Thundercat, I'm only familiar with The Golden Age of Apocalypse. Some interesting stuff there to be sure. Songs such as Fleer Ultra and Boat Cruise are standouts on that album for me. Haven't heard much beyond that, though.
"Their first album is their best though, before they sold out" "I don't know any popular music, I only listen too *insert complicated, cerebral genre with (unfortunately)elitist following" "Drum machines killed real music"
I remember Blondie's album "Parallel Lines", which had "Heart of Glass" on it. I read a review in one magazine which said it was the greatest album ever done by a New Wave artist, and that it was a pity that they'd never get the airplay they deserved. A few weeks later "Heart of Glass" took off as a huge hit, and in the same magazine I read a review saying how pathetic it was that Blondie had sold out to disco, thus losing all credibility. I thought to myself, "isn't this the same magazine which said this was such a great album?". So I dug through my pile of old magazines and found the original review. And not only was it a review in the same magazine, but both reviews were WRITTEN BY THE SAME PERSON!
I also remember someone coming into my office at work sometime around the time when Pink Floyd was crushing album charts around the world with "The Wall". Someone visiting me noticed a page about Pink Floyd that I had tacked up on my bulletin board (a full-page ad from Billboard). He said "I used to really love them, before they sold out to pop radio and released 'Dark Side of the Moon'.". I felt like throwing him off the top of the building.
None of the modern innovations are inherently bad. It’s just that the tippy-tippy-top of the most succesful music right now is more like a fashion show or multi-media marketing campaign first and foremost, and the music itself is just feels the soundtrack accompanying it. The part with the least effort.
As Neil Peart wrote: _All this machinery making modern music_ _Can still be open-hearted_ _Not so coldly charted_ _It's really just a question of your honesty_
@@shitmandood: People go to Madge's "concerts" the way NASCAR fans go to a track to see someone slam into a brick wall. They're there to ses a spectacle.
Then my guess is you aren't into the indie scene at all. There's PLENTY of excellent guitar-driven music that's come out in the last 20 years. Wolf Parade's Apologies to the Queen Mary album is a good start.
I'm an awful music snob, but I think it's because music is so important to me and central to my being. I worked for a guy once and the moment he told me that music was just a distraction that meant nothing to him, he became a zombie to me.
I feel like there's a progression of music snobbery: In the beginning it's easy; you don't know anything about music, but you know that you like some and don't like others based on visceral, automatic responses. Then, if you're inclined, you start to figure out why you like certain things and don't like others. You begin to learn about music and the standards and rudiments we've settled on as a society that separate "good" music from "bad" music in a general way. You then learn to branch out and listen to things outside of your comfort zone because your definition of "good" music has expanded. This stage lasts the longest and, for a lot of people, the last stage of their musical evolution, but there is another. I believe that once you reach a certain stage you realize that the only real difference between "good" and "bad" music is authenticity, i.e. is this music a passionate expression of real human emotion or is it a shameless, focus-grouped, mass-produced cash grab? Or, if it is a mixture of the two (as so much modern pop music is), to what degree is it one or the other and how much can you tolerate. There are, of course, many other factors contributing to modern Top 40 being the way it is: economic, technological, sociological, etc... I would say, in vastly oversimplified fashion, that predatory capitalism has turned people away from "the music business", but technology has made it cheaper and easier than ever to consume music or even produce your own. Most people nowadays have so many different avenues through which to listen to music that not being a snob, not having a high bar as to what is acceptable to listen to, only serves to overwhelm you with the sheer scope and scale of available music. Also, back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, Top 40 was, by definition, whatever happened to be popular at the time, regardless of genre. Maybe it's a prog-rock odyssey, maybe it's from a movie soundtrack, maybe it's a folk duet. Over time, a sort of distillation occurred where music stopped reaching the Top 40 incidentally and instead was designed to do so, which is where the "Pop" genre came from. Think about it: Pop is short for popular, as in music that people like. Except now, that isn't true. Pop is its own genre complete with its own set of common practices and expectations born of the feedback loop of producing music designed to appeal to the most people possible - the lowest common denominator - in service of making the most money possible. My final point is that music snobbery is a luxury. Consuming music, while cheaper by the day, still costs money. Sure, Spotify and whatever are free, but only if you have a device capable of utilizing such things and can afford access to the internet. Thankfully, the entry barriers are as flimsy as ever to that level of consumption, but they do exist. As such, saying you are a music snob is effectively saying "I can afford to find and listen to the music that pleases me". I, for instance, haven't actively listened to the radio since the early 2000s when I got my first Walkman, then iPod, car stereo w/cd player, and now smart phone. Early access to computers, the internet, Napster, Limewire, and the like gave me the tools to procure and create my own mix CDs and playlists, allowing me to largely circumvent the radio. Now, when I'm forced to listen to the current Top 40 stuff, whether at work or driving a car with limited connectivity, even if it's a song I like, the presence of advertising and the fact that I have very little control, if any, over what I'm listening to is enough for me to prefer listening to my own thoughts.
Sophisticated does not equal good. Simple does not equal bad. Ted Hawkins, one of the greatest musicians ever, tuned his guitar to open E and barred the strings to make chords. Some of his best songs have two chords and basic strumming. Emotion is the only thing that matters. Every technique and style of production exists to create a certain feeling.
I started listen music with the dangerous album of Michael Jackson, I listened everyday, then I became a fan of the Rolling Stones with the voodo lounge album ... Then I started playing glockenspiel in the school orchestra so I felt in love with chamber and orchestal art of music; I love Oliver Messian, Stockhausen, Varese, Stravinsky, Revueltas, J. Carrillo of cousre Chopin, Vivaldi etc... ; but, when a friend took his bass guitar to the school I felt so in love with that instrument than I decide to became a musician for the rest of my life ... I started to listen all the greatest bass players and the greatest bass rock and jazz songs ; also modern electronic music like PVD, oakenfold , aphex twin and others heavy POP culture... I started focus all my day to the bass sounds ...Hehe ... Studying bass teach me so many things in my life ... So I like all kind of music if it's made from the heart and soul ... The copy/paste no risky pop or even worst the tough reggeton sex for money music of the last years I think it's boring boring boring and I could say I hate it ... It's like tortue all that of massive produced and hyper masterized inert sounds .... I really hate that... songs?? ... ??? .... ..... ..... Peace
That has been the major difference with bands- any person who plays somewhat can be made to sound good in a studio with enough production. But if you can’t stand on a stage and PLAY, you’re not a musician, you’re an entertainer.
@@The_ScapeGoat what’s your opinion on Keidis’s vocals? I’ve heard mixed reviews on his live performances but I’ve seen some really strong live vocals.
In think the reason I was so pulled into punk music had mainly to do with the lyrics. I.e., Bad Religion and D.K. I mean...they really had something to say
I think it's relative. Liking jazz automatically makes you a "snob" in some circles, not being into opera and classical makes you a troglodyte in some. It's such a personal preference. My wife thinks I'm a music snob, because I call "new country" pop with a slight twang.
I know this is an old comment, but that's what I love about pop these days, for the most part it's meh, so it's down to me and my instrument to make it more exciting to me.
Yes, I'm a music snob, and proud about it. But, if something is good, it is good. You have to be big enough to admit that, no matter what kind of music it is. Love Keiths vids about guitar history.
You know that movie based on a true story about the tone deaf opera singer who wound up becoming world famous, Florence Foster Jenkins,... or any sort of crazy avant-garde jazz, Pollock paintings.... art is definitely objective, theres a time and place for everything
Country anyone? I've lived my entire adult life west of the Mississippi among the country demographic, between sagebrush and dirt roads, surrounded by bars where NashVegas country dominates the jukeboxes. I can. not. stand. it. The lyrics are cliched and chord progressions simplistic. I won't argue with sales and airplay, and I won't begrudge anyone who likes it, but I can't warm up to it. I will spin on my heel and walk out of the aforementioned pub at the first mention of a pickup truck or a dirt road.
The bro-country of today is utterly ridiculous, with predictable chord progressions and sappy, emasculated lyrics. I grew up on classical music & Megadeth, Slayer and Anthrax, in the middle of rural cowboy country......not exactly sure how that happened, but thank god!
There are some great country songs--even with trucks and dirt roads. What country has that is often missing from other music, is the storytelling, and lyrics. Mainstream country is cliched, and panders, but there are some gems.
I like when all three of you laughed after saying you were joking about being music snobs. I laughed too because I've been known to snob out on certain music. I'm more open minded with music these days. But it's just like you said, music is at it's finest when musicians are interacting together, live. When it's performed right there's a magic that nothing can top. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
@@skyblazeeterno That makes less than no sense. (1) I'm gonna be the last person on the planet who feels like I have to justify ANYTHING to another human being, so take it from me: This is just a geeky conversation. (2) If one's taste in music doesn't determine... *what music one likes or doesn't*, please tell me what should???
I'm with Dave: the reason I listen to most music - the thing that gives me the most pleasure - is hearing musicians interact with one another in real time. If that is absent, then the pleasure of listening to it is generally lost on me. If that makes me a snob, then so be it.
@@cgiunta6542 I generally prefer live recordings, yes, or pre-1980s studio recordings, when the basic track (rhythm guitar, bass, and drums, at least) were generally recorded live, a tradition which, while not altogether lost, is hardly the norm in modern recording.
I love Black Gives Way to Blue and I get all kinds of slack for it from other AiC fans. I'm so glad to hear that you liked it too Rick. That album has made me cry more times than any other.
Auto-tune™ is 22 years old, but similar technology and techniques have been used long prior to that specific technology (for instance, altering Madonna's natural vocal range by speeding up the playback on songs like "Like A Virgin"). Auto-tune™ that we know (and love or hate) today happened as a glitch that piqued the interest of recording engineers and was made famous by Cher in 1998 ("Believe"). Guitar distortion is also a glitch that gained popularity, as well as feedback. All of these effects, now part of the recording canon, were initially rejected - heck, the electric guitar was originally considered an inferior product that would never gain acceptance... going back even further in time, there was a lot of resistance for an instrument that originally competed with the harpsichord called the "piano-forte". As with just about anything else, I try to employ the 90/10 rule: 90% of everything is crap, and 10% of it is brilliant. There are margins that can slide either way, but you can't discount Auto-tune out of hand. Except for modern pop country, which is terrible.
For me the problem with autotune isn't it's use as an effect, like distortion on a guitar. What I hate about it is that it is used to cover up a bad performance by the artist. Yes, it makes it perfectly in tune, but it also levels out all the nuance in the performance, making the song sound lifeless and dull. Artists aren't pushed to give their best performance anymore. Instead we get an attitude of ''eh good enough, we'll fix it later on the computer.'' I think autotune also opens the door to the music industry to people who have no business being there. Actual talent takes a back seat to a pretty face and marketability.
The fun thing about music snobs: if you talk to the parent generation of the time at which e.g. 40's music was popular, it was partly "scandalous" as guys and girls wanted to go dance with each other, Rock 'n' Roll was "ape music" etc. It's all in the perspective and age always mellows the view on it. Even 300 years ago when Bach was living music snobs snobbed about the newly developed well-tempered piano as it wasn't tuned precisely enough.
Everyone wants to chop music up into micro genres and say how "their" choice is the true music. I can't see being that limited. There is just too much fun and interesting music to listen to.
I believe people that most people that say modern music suck aren't looking hard enough. Even back in the day, A&R guys were listening to hundreds of recordings a day from people sending in their works in the hopes of getting signed. People don't want to go through all the dirt to find the diamonds even with the help of the internet.
@@goodun2974 The beauty of the modern age, to me, is that I *have* to sift through the dirt to find diamonds. Think about how many artists you did not hear because a radio DJ didn't like their sound! Now that power is in the hands of the listener, so finding a really specific sound you like, or really any sound in general, is much easier and gives that awesome feeling of finding a gem and spreading it to your friends. I'm a child of the modern age though, so I can't really contrast it with the experiences of the 70s and such, but I really like the modern way of things
There are new songs that have catchy hooks and great production. There is no creativity or feel, but it’s a business and repetitive formulas equal downloads.
@@remoevans2793 Someone not trying hard enough to find great modern music. Jinjer fans would disagree with you. Look harder and stop being closed minded.
@@FahlmanCascade haha that's why I always liked this expression. I believe there is SOME merit to being a music snob, they're just guardians of the artform who have high expectations.
@@ER-yq1lc You just intentionally want to incite people? OK, kids. Thing is, rap is a wide spectrum. There's Eminem, there's Machine Gun Kelly. There's a lot of in-between there.
Memory plays such a huge role in our enjoyment of music. I have a playlist on my phone of the songs I heard as a kid growing up, and a lot of them I'm actually not fussed by the song itself, but when I play it I'm transported to specific times and places from my childhood/youth.
Rick Beato is one of those rare people that can have a conversation about any kind of music. Then he goes a step higher on the scale and can tell how they do it and can then play it himself. He would be a great person to know. I can probably pick my favorite kinds of music or bands and he'll know more about it than I will. lol
Hi Rick! This was very interesting to watch as a younger, contemporary music listener who started out playing music listening to rock from the 70's and 80's. Wouldn't it be interesting to have a conversation like this but with people from older and younger generations, to have different points of view?
I've been a singer/musician/song writer for most of my life (I'm 51), and have been profoundly moved by iconic rock bands such as Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, and the Rolling Stones just to name a few. The truth is, I also listen to wide array of music and always have. I take something away from almost everything I hear. Ariana Grande has a incredible voice. Justin Timberlake is infectious, and ultra smooth. It all depends on my mood and what catches my ear. The "surprise" as you referred to. The "muse" of the song if you will. Thelonious Monk happens to be in the backdrop tonight. The ambiguity and subjective facet of music in itself makes it incredibly enjoyable. Great discussion! Cheers
Thank you for giving “Black gives way to blue” the props it deserves. I’ve been a diehard AIC fan since Facelift dropped in 1990, and I absolutely love their Devall era stuff. I actually find myself listening to the new era more, not because I like it more than the early records, but because I’m just so familiar with everything in the old records, and there are intricacies and complex structures in the new records that are just gold. “The devil put dinosaurs here” is my favorite from the new era and it would be cool to do a video on the new AIC material.
Lionel Ritchie wrote a lot of things for an interesting assortment of people, and finessed them to work in the genre the people were in. That said, even though I liked the Hello song, as a sightling when it first came out, and still like it now, as a song, I become overwhelmingly embarrassed and mortified when it comes on like this morning in the grocery store and I can't hide, (as a blind person). I was on my way to the checkout when it came on, and I thought, "Oh no. I cannot stand in a line of people while this plays. 😳 I took a hard turn and went to the automotive section on the aisle not very many people go into. The video is so much more controversial now. It makes it feel cheesier than it is.
1,000 times this. My daughter was like 4 when Frozen came out. I was mezmerized by "Let it go". That is a perfect song IMO (and I generally do not like that kind of music at all). But every element of that songs is wondrous: the lyrics, vocal performance, the way the music tells a narrative through emotion, the cresendo an release; the massive variety of instruments all combined to a greater whole. Most of what I hear on the radio today reminds me of being in someone's garage when I was 13 and they were trying to figure out how to play: simple, repetitious and lacking ambition. Yeah, I'm a snob.
Dear Rick et all.... I put on the Golden Handcuffs quite a few years ago and walked away from a "right place right time" opportunity that I will NEVER be able to buy my way back into... even with all of the Gold I got for trading away my soul... and thirty years. Soon I will be less employed ( mostly retired ) and then I can get back to doing what really made me smile... A few years ago I put a post on Craig's List "Good Music, Great Players, A Really Fun Time, or good pay..... give me two in that list and I'm interested" Thank you SOOOOOOO much for your conribution.
We all have different ears, not snobby but different. I listend to vinyl at the age of 3 and music never left me. Its the passion that catches you. It cought me, now I'm almost 63 and try to teach music with passion. From Abba to Zappa. We've had a "Golden Age " of wonderfull music, Blues, Jazz, Rock, Soul and everything in between. Let them hear everything, with respect. With passion. I try to!
We were so blessed to have grown up with this music of the 70's. The kids have almost no idea how rewarding that music is, compared to today. I can't tell you how many students I have effortlessly influenced (altering their musical education) using some strange aura left-over from our generation's (almost esoteric) love of the music. Keep that old faith and the feeling alive!
This was great and all absolutely true… my teenage daughters are right into their music and have continually gravitated backwards into “my/60’s/70’s/80’s/90’s” music… they genuinely think it’s way more interesting! I put it down to better songs at the core, more interesting progressions, multiple “voices” in the group (players), collaboration, most importantly UNIQUE !!! A perfect example is the first time I played them, ‘Call Me Al’ or ‘Sledgehammer’ or ‘Golden Slumbers’…. Their reaction was ALWAYS the same…. “DAD…WHAT’S THIS?” Another great example was when the Queen Movie came out… they’d regularly say…”music isn’t this interesting anymore”
There is something massively inspiring about Rick Beato's enthusiastic open minded approach to all genres, even the most repetitive, technology drenched modern pop tunes! This UA-cam channel is pure gold to me. Thank you so much Rick for creating this extremely informative and passionate music channel! You provide insight from all angles and your theoretical knowledge of music is just outstanding... Somewhere around age 12 music became more than just a light form of entertainment and thanks to my brother and many music loving friends/family around me, I was surrounded by all genres and styles of music. I started dissecting the instrumentation of my favourite bands from an early age and separating the different instrument's parts while still being able to appreciate a song as a whole. Unfortunately playing bass for 25+ years and analysing music so intensely meant when I heard themes and influences that were repeated time and again, I slowly started to get a little jaded with anything new that sounded far too close something to something I heard before. Usually it lacked the original spark... Up until the mid 2000's it really seemed like music across the board was evolving in some capacity to some extent but really nose dived as far and quality verses quantity in recent times.... Now being in my mid 40's and having an absolute passion for music since my pre-teens, the conversation between you three is insanely relevant to me because over the last 15 years as I have found myself extremely cynical and dismissive of most mainstream modern music. I realised I started missing some real magic outside the box because I convinced myself that everything under the sun has been written/played in music and it was all getting dumbed down with the "overuse" of technology at the cost of musicianship and the organic songwriting process. The bottom line is that I was just looking/listening at the wrong platform for new and innovative music. In Australia at least, the once reliable radio stations that launched some of our best and most innovative acts have become ultra generic and air playlists that are so devoid of originality or character. Most of the young artists coming up have such limited influences and their music is just bland, 1 dimensional or just primitive yet it seems to be celebrated as something super creative. I just don't hear it... Anyway, the only way to discover music that actually pushes the envelope and offers something new is through online platforms such as UA-cam and recommendations from friends who are adventurous in their musical tastes.
Will I'm here... Let Me throw this musician and Her music out there. Tal Wilkenfeld and Her album 'Love Remains'. What do You 'Guys' think of Her music? I just love it. Although as the fellas were saying in the video, You have to listen to a it few times to get it. Especially Her vocals sometimes are some what 'different'. I can listen to it now over and over again it's so good.
The problem I have with pop music, especially of today, is that they're not drawing any influences from actual music, it's mostly about superficial lookism and/or the appearance of wealth and freedom to behave in any way you want. This shows in both the music, lyrics, and the videos, which influences youth in detrimental ways. I literally think it can affect the way young people behave towards others and perhaps also affect their view on life in general. Back in earlier decades, hell even in the 90's, I don't really get the feeling that popular genres back then were _really_ trying to be something they're not, I don't get a _trying to be the next this or that for the sake of success_ type vibe from the bands back then, they were just doing their own thing and you could find so much music that sounded sonically original and interesting harmonically too, even within one sub genre alone, like alternative rock. Nowadays it's banging out hits with complete and utter disregard for real musicality & authenticity, lookism & beauty are essential to the mix, lyrics often fowl... man I don't really wanna keep typing so I'll stop.
Elvis only got singed because he had a black sounding voice in a white man's body, He never wrote a single one of his songs, he was just the pretty boy that could sell music with this looks and dancing. He was only singed because he was pretty and white. If you think using looks to sell music is only a modern thing in pop music then your really dense and really not that bright. It's be going on sense forever as most pop music is sold to the youth and the youth are pretty shallow and value looks above all else. Take off your rose tinted glasses because things were not better in the past.
@@MrStephen182 You're not wrong that pop music in general focuses on lesser things even in the earlier decades, the likes of Pat Metheny & Frank Zappa have openly scorned pop music in 80's interviews saying it was never about the actual music being played, and more about appearances etc. Even now that I'm older I'm man enough to say that one of my favorite bands Led Zeppelin, while I think they have some obviously great songs, particularly the more acoustic ones, I can say that if we're to judge music objectively, the overall music quality of say Keith Jarrett, as a completely different musician but still, we're talking about music here, is far superior to that of Led Zeppelin, again I don't care that the styles are different, as I get older Keith Jarrett is who I'll be listening to more than LZ. The point of me saying this is to recognise that LZ to a degree, were a part of the pop image in comparison to that of Jazz music which wasn't as popular, yet the quality was objectively higher. I never implied that pop music wasn't about shallow things in the past, but if you were to pay attention to the lyrics and their meanings in some of today's popular music, it's absolute night & day in terms of the sheer level of degeneracy and gestural expression. Sure maybe throughout the decades it was getting more and more lewd and open anyway, hell even Frank Zappa who I mentioned before is an example of making terrible music with awful lyrics as a way of just not giving an F and rebelling against his parents/elders/generation at the time. Yet he could also write music and was influenced by classical composers, so had a framework to work with. The Beatles while popular in a similar way and level to Elvis were capable of writing actual good tunes. Yeeeeeeeah not many kids in the pop scene today are capable of doing the same thing my guy, playing a few chords on guitar or piano doesn't exactly cut it. Also Elvis I'm pretty sure got his whole style from Little Richard, who even later Prince adopted with the makeup and fashion sense.
While production is immense in the genre, musically, the main reason I keep gravitating away from the American pop music and scene is that most singers/pop-artists in the genre don't know when to melodically _stop_. If you look at the majority of the pop music on the top-40 list, there is very little melodic "structure" nor rest. Everything is one, run-on line that gives no breathing room, which makes it exceedingly boring for me. Basically, the songwriter teams have forgotten that the best melodies are like conversations, they have a flow with starts and stops, variation of pitch, and rhythmic interest. To add to it, for me, I want to hear a section stripped of vocals and hear the layered keyboard or bass, or some interesting rhythm in the percussion, or SOMETHING other than the main vocalist yammering on about some overused tired tagline or lyrics that are rubbish, putting it nicely and not giving up the floor for other instruments to "speak". As again, it leads the song to be a "conversation" of tones.
@@goodun2974 story type songs with interesting lyrics DO seem to be lacking. I disagree about lack of space for other instruments to come through...I think its FAR better nowadays as it tends to be more minimalist
Feel like a lot of songs today are little more than song ideas that don't get fleshed out. Instead, they just repeat the little snippett over and over for 3 and a half minutes.
I’m exactly like Rick. I can appreciate something in every song whether it be musicianship, composition, production, mix, instrument tones or performance.
Love Jazz. But I'll admit it wasn't until recently (the past five years or so), that I've really grown and appreciation for it. Most of my life Classic Rock of the 60's 70's 80's & 90's has been my main listening. Everything from the Beatles and Bob Dylan to REM and the Cranberries. Although I also like Classical, Old school country, and even Rat Pack music. Sinatra, Martin, Sammy Davis, etc. Stuff my Dad listened to. But I've built up a nice Vinyl record collection of Jazz lately: Miles Davis, Coltrane, Lee Morgan, Sonny Rollins, Chet Baker, Gordon Dexter, Charles Parker Bird, Eric Dolphy, David Brubeck, Art Blakey, etc... Amazing musicians, such an awesome listening experience. Opened up a whole new world of music for me. But I've been saturated in great music ever since my Mom put on that first Beatle record when I was only 3 yrs old. I feel I grew up in the Renaissance of music. The greatest time for music ever Imho.
Taylor Swift really plays her guitar. Check out her NPR Tiny Desk appearance. Great timing, accenting, baseline runs while singing. So the guitar isn’t just a prop to her. I’m not really a fan of hers except for a couple of songs but she is a real musician.
@@stevebanning902 The difference is she uses the instrument to come up with songs, as well as perform live. I don't think anyone considers her a guitarist, herself most likely included, but playing chords and singing in front of crowds is still waaay better than lipsyncing without playing anything in the same scenario.
If you do that with music you enjoy, then you certainly shouldn't listen to your own choice of music when you drive. That would be extremely inconvenient.
Sometimes there are songs that don't withstand a few listens. There is no depth to them, and they sound like they were made by a machine with no one behind it.
Rick, i'm 34, I feel i'm an interesting generation, I was raised as the same as my sister who was born in 79, so I was watching GOOD mtv at a very young age. At 9yo in 1994, I wanted so badly to go to woodstock 94 and stayed glued to the tv the whole summer over that LOL. My mom was going back to school in the early 90s, so I experienced a LOT of college rock/alternative from that era. I feel that the problem today is this: Connecting music with the listeners. All the major players these days want to play it safe to make money. You know there's a lot of great musicians out there making music in 2019, but as an avid listener, where do I go to find music? Radio? haha, all the stations here are owned by the same company, all automated. Spotify? it just keeps suggesting music I've already heard, most the time that's already in my liked music section. It does a terrible job of giving me new music. XM and Pandora have been my best bet so far, but still only getting very mainstream stuff. How do we connect the listeners to the music? THAT is the question....
Personally, I've found literally hundreds of new bands from suggestions on UA-cam and Facebook. I agree, Spotify doesn't do good on suggesting new bands, but UA-cam does. You just have to search around.
The easiest way to is to note which labels your current favorite bands are on, then check out other bands on that label. I find tons of great bands doing this.
@@canaanjustice1725 Can you suggest a good current band to start with so that UA-cam starts suggesting good stuff in my feed? Big Wreck comes to mind...
Agreed, but it isn’t only pop and jazz, per se, where I see a dearth of interesting music. It crosses most genres these days. That is why what you do is soul nourishing, Rick. You might say, too, your analyses of music and everything, press the reset button on reality. Reality is when people enjoy good music and surreal is when we live in an unmusical world. Your channel and Brandon Acker’s are what inspire me most on You Tube. Thank you.
Hello Rick, I love this discussion and I think you are totally right! There's one Idea I want to ad to this: What we all are missing is the interaction of several musicians, either on a record and of course on stage. And many people do miss this too. You can see that, because there are a lot of 'dinosaurs' that still play their music live and then people come to this concerts, because there are this interacting musicians, who make music living thing! And I think, this will go on as long as there are good bands who play their music live.
I got my first transistor radio, a Sony back in 71 or 72, to this day, some of the.music back then I still love...Elton John, Jackson Browne, Jo Jo Gunn, Rod stewart...
LOL Rick!!! You hate the auto tune, that's an amazing realization for me, that I'm not alone among rockers. Appreciated!! I'm a music snob FOR SURE! Blackberry Smoke lately were incredible, and Clutch on tour, 22!! Whaaaa? Thank Clutch, so Much!
Yes, I am a music snob. I concur with the notion that music is too repetitive today. Most of it does not get anywhere. When bands stopped using expressive melodies, they limited how far a piece could progress using "production/orchestration". The upshot of this is that modern pieces go through 1 or 2 musically SIMILAR gyrations, instead of 4,5,6, or even 7 DISTINCT sections as they did in the past. When you fully express the melody, then follow it up with another complementary yet different section that is also melodic, the overall piece will burgeon. Limiting it to a repetition of the initial melodic line, while adding some drums, vocals, strings or something, will decrease the amount of musical "space" the piece covers. There is no substitute for fresh melodies that are compounded upon each other, that's why I personally continue to write melodies, even though most of the world has abandoned them. Melodies are rich and enticing, and make the piece sound full and tantalizing. Putting the music first is paramount. Content is King, and many songs nowadays just don't contain enough content.
@@josephancion2190 That's right. This notion that people didn't make repetitive music before recent times is just ridiculous. Go to any decade in the 20th century and you can find "bad" music.
@@josephancion2190 Thanks for replying. It really depends on how much the musical pulse of the melody progresses, in my opinion. If we imagine the branches or choices of the notes and their offshoots, both sound and duration wise, (as depicted by sequences of notes), how far one goes "down the rabbit hole" of the multiverse is what describes the melodic parameters. This concept applies the movement of the notes branching choices to the concept of the multiverse. If done correctly, and there is a lot of motion, you cover a lot of space and time and really get somewhere by the end of the piece. Music can be compared to travelling through the multiverse, each new note takes a fresh turn (or not). Repetition, if hammered too frequently, is the limited version of the Multiverse idea. You can have changing notes or not. Changing notes: content. Without changes, chord wise, melodically, or rhythmic, a piece sounds banal. Right now, I really don't know who to listen to that is forward moving. Suggestions welcomed.
@@lunchbox9991 Yes, that may be true. However, I grew up on 80's radio and it really did not suck. Music that languishes has become maintstream, and I primarily blame the record companies, who don't know what they are doing and think it is fine. People like Taylor Swift also repeat notes to create an easy monotone.
@@josephancion2190 Exactly this pop radio is an extremely small sliver of the amount of music available. People always talk about "modern music" like pop radio is the only thing out there, when in fact not only is the _VAST_ majority of music *not* pop radio, but that's magnified to the extreme by the fact that the amount and variety of music being released today absolutely dwarfs the choice and volume that was available in the past. People who say things like "there is no good music today" are just lazy and seem to expect the radio and TV to just deliver them whatever suits their own personal taste instead of looking for what they like that isn't currently popular. If someone likes a specific thing, they can still find someone making that kind of music today, and probably more people making it now than ever. There are modern symphony composers, there are modern surf rock bands, there are modern glam metal bands, there are modern synth rock bands, there are modern jazz bands, modern big band.... bands, modern folk bands (of any region's folk), country, bluegrass, blues, ska, literally whatever the fuck someone wants. Not only the styles "of the past" if someone is stuck on something like that, but there are new styles of music that are created and evolve continuously.
Hey Rick. Love your videos. I am a jazz musician that also likes pop music. I taught music for 30 years and am the same age as you. Growing up I was exposed to a lot of different music and still feel the same. I play with big swing bands, small groups, pop groups and and currently doing pit work for a musical. As a drummer / percussionist I am always curious to hear new things. Keep up the good work!
Agree with all of you. I'm a 53 yo drummer from upstate NY (just 35 miles north of NYC). Not being from a musician family for me, it was age 4-8 was what my father born in 1940 played - Carpenters, Sinatra, Brubeck. Then by 10, I started my Beatles phase, until 1981 when I started playing drums in 9th grade, then my Zeppelin, Yes, then my Rush /Neil obsession years 83-87. Learned ALL the tunes note for note even without jazz technique (for Bonham) but still played them well. Then college in the late 80's at SUNY Oneonta with Nassau County guys going; "Hey check out this Billy Cobham with Mahavishnu Orchestra" - and my mind was blown. Got heavy into Fusion & Chick, Weckl, Coliauta, Chambers, etc. Gradually learned that stuff into the 90's while playing with numerous bands. From all of that, I groomed myself as a studio drummer, learned to respect Steely Dan from fusion, and became a big Dan fan, even. Hung alot out in the Village with jazz fan buddies from Oneonta from the city, got street smart, and saw a lot of great stuff in the early/mid nineties, met my drum hero's at the different clubs and dives, including Tony Williams at the Bottom Line with Jan Hammer in 1993. I moved out west in 97 and ended up playing in the jam band scene in UT/CA. Learned straight ahead jazz got into Miles, Coltrane, Bird, Tyner. Learned the standards on the gig. Learned brushes on the gig, and how to play a room and use improv in all styles by 2004. Whenever I fly back to NY to see family, I'll go to the 55 Bar (my favorite all time venue) and see Wayne Krantz, Keith Carkock, and Tim Lafevre who I've been fans of there since 97. Now living LA, I'll check Tim & Gary Novak out at the Baked Potato. Or go to the Blue Whale. Just moved here. Still seeing if I can handle the traffic before I decide to settle. In Redondo Beach area because traffic is manageable. Long story short, my journey led me to play with straight ahead Jazz 'snobs'. But coming to Jazz and improv later, without music school, but always loving good pop, I can understand that whole attitude completely. Also, I've always dug the interchangeability of jazz bands coming from a Rock background, but look at it from a different perspective from the community concept Rick just brought up here, because it does makes sense from a 'fandom knowing the band' standpoint. Especially from women's perspective.
Perhaps snobbery comes from the fact that for appreciation of music to widen, personally, I has to listen to music I didn’t necessarily like but could hear that it had quality/depth. I hated Close to the Edge by Yes when I first heard it (I had loved “The Yes Album” 1971?). I persevered and C to the E then became one of my all time favourite albums. When I hear someone say they don’t like a “great” piece of music I tend to feel ... they don’t appreciate it yet and probably won’t give it time. I forget that some people mainly see music as entertainment .... and that’s okay. There are plenty of things I don’t give my time to.
The outro music at the end of this video drives me bats. Literally hurts my ears. That aside, watching the Grammy’s or any of these music award shows these days makes me realize it’s more important to be a dancer than have musical talent.
Hate to say it, but I agree about the outro. I don't like it. Some forms of music hurt to listen to, both rhythmically and harmonically. Maybe someone likes it, but not me.
Hey Rick, Dave & Keith. I'm a 66 year old guy who started in rock bands courtesy of the British Invasion, but growing up in metro Chicago area found where it all started, The Blues! Played with all kinds of the real guys in town and on tour, had enough road stories to break up several homes, and I still play with some of the guys I met 40+ years ago. We're still standing, and we play together almost by osmosis. The thrill will never be gone. Hey Rick, love the channel cause I'm still working on my craft. (just got the ear training course) Keith, like your 5 watt world thing too. I fall in the middle of you guys with gear. Probably cause my kid is in college. Great stuff. Keep up the good work.
I will listen to anything as long as it's good. I agree most with the point that Dave made about needing the music before the production. It certainly feels like many artists are becoming successful and seeming like good songwriters because the immaculate production is saving their songs most of the time.
I’m very much a music snob!! I LOVE real singers, and musicians, who don’t rely on autotune and processed music!! Having been born in 1963, i grew up in the best time for original music with a wide variety!
Hey Rick watching your channel inspired me to get back to music after an 11 year hiatus- thanks for that. I was a classical musician trained in a conservatory. My Dad got a piano and played Mozart, Chopin, Beethoven and Bach. My mom bought us Simon & Garfunkel, Journey, and the soundtracks to Broadway musicals. I got involved with choir at church and school and learned that huge history of choral masterworks and symphony and opera. Kids at school played me Rush, Boston, Styx, Kansas. Of course Beatles, ubiquitous in the 70's. Too long story short: you know what is good when you hear it. The last bands I bought were Rammstein and WolfMother... So I'd say yes I'm a music snob. Last night I was listening to the Gorecki 3rd symphony that could make the devil cry. I got your book but it's rough sledding for me... I'll keep at it.
"There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind." -Duke Ellington
Duke Had it right!!
Also Duke "If it sounds good, it is good."
oh man, this discussion starts off pretty great! how long before I know if I'm a music snob?
Thanks for the credit, i thought it was captain obvious’s
Yep, I've always loved that quote. Pretty much would've come up with a similar line if he didn't. thanx!
Rick is the quintessential 14 year old kid in a record store from the 70s that never grew up. I love that.
Isn't that America ?
We all love him for that. I like it.
I am a 24 -year-old kid from 2000s and I listen to 60-90s music and I am not planning to stop
I'm not a musician, but I am similar to that guy you described. Musicians would hang in my place because I have a music collection, and It was me who would open up their limited minds...hahaha.
I do as well I was born in 1980 and 2019 music repels me I think Ricks innocence is wonderful.
"You gotta have the music before the production." 100% agree.
Production is an ARTFORM...overall sound changes a song dramatically
Depends on if you're making a song or a sound. In the latter, production is part of the construction, not just the means to capture and distribute.
Don't forget the dance moves and the costumes!
The “the production is great” defense of modern music seems to me to overlook the fact that there has always been great production.
Allan Wilson The production has always been great but now their are more possibilities with production that it’s sometimes like it’s changing a what music is a bit. For example, percussion can be foley samples, the sound design is more flexible with DAWs opposed to instruments. You have more access to sample and synth manipulation.
It’s like what traditional instruments were used for in music can sometimes be replaced by a different type of sound, I’m not an expert but hear it in music I listen too.
Am I a music snob? I'm subscribed to Rick's channel aren't I?
Right said! Me too
Nailed it🤘
When I was in the Metal Phase of my life that was all I listened to. Then I picked up the guitar and started playing with other guitarists it broadened my musical perspective. Now if I find the song good it didn't matter what genre it came from.
Short answer: Yes.
I try not to be, though. There's just some stuff that I can't stand!
Absolutely. Try to be subjective as well
I think it's the overuse of autotune and the samey-ness of the productions. I mean, I love some old top 40, Olivia Newton John is my girl from about Totally Hot to The Rumour!
They had a good point about the top 40 of the 70s compared to the 2000s. I don't think there's anything that doesn't follow a pattern or formula.
@@JoeChewBaca Very fair. I would agree that TOP 40 from the 70's has a little more substance
Same boat. Gave my notice to my band when they started covering way too much of the modern country stuff around today. Most of it is the cliche' "3 chords and a story" formula and completely unsuitable for my ears. It's hard not to think people are missing out on music that could give them a more profound experience, but they're probably not looking for it in the first place, unfortunately.
@@guitarjonn7103 Yeah. It's tricky to play music that you're not into...at least play passionately anyways
I love the auto-captions for this one :D "Hey everybody, I'm Rigby Otto"
Eleanor's kid brother!
Brick Piano will forever be my fav
@@sindead28 not prick? 😂
@@napomania guess i have a new favorite now
Before listening to the conversation: my answer was yes.
After listening to the conversation: my answer is -- still yes.
But it's absolutely not about vacuum tubes for me. I love the digital audio tools. It's about the songwriting.
I too have noticed that audio production sounds great these past few years. But applying high quality production to an uninteresting song is like putting lipstick on a pig. On another Internet forum, I read a dialogue between a college music professor and one of his students. The professor told his student that he was a composer. The student answered, "oh, so you make beats?" That's the dividing line.
Concerning women who play guitars: while there may be several new artists, let's not forget Ann and Nancy Wilson of Heart, who run circles around most modern players.
Concerning songwriting in 2019: there are still many musicians who really do care about every note they write and play. They're not getting any press. 99 percent of the public has no idea who they are. But I am very grateful for them.
And finally, in the closing few minutes, you guys hit the nail on the head: playing live with groups of musicians is SO valuable! This is something that ordinary adult life can take away from you, and I miss it.
a lot of people overlook that closing part. Just because none of the music we want to hear isn't on the radio doesn't mean it isn't there. Radio sucks, and I'm glad rock music isn't on it much anymore, rock music is about having balls. I'd rather just go to some local shows or listen to the underground stuff on the internet. That's where the guitar music flourishes.
Impassioned... "putting lipstick on a pig"... unfortunately some people are into that. LOL
Beautifully spoken. Nothing beats playing live. As far as production is concerned I'm glad we have it. I believe in the old rule : don't record something in the studio that you can't play live.
Live music is really the real deal. When you are in a little club or your living room hearing a song being shared for the first time...it is like witnessing a birth.
In physic the explanation of vibration creating our perception of reality brings another dimension to the topic of music. Whatever camp of theory we find ourself in it can not be denied that we may not be able to adequatly describe what makes something great, but we know it when we hear it.
...and that is a beautiful and woderous experience.
@@tylertaylor5490 Radio is just another form of media to control us and sell sell sell. Music is to share the human experience.
I worked at a grocery store for a year, and the music drove me insane that I ended up quitting with that being the backbone reason
There was finally a bunch of store employees that were ready to go on a strike, here,
last year, cause of the christmas songs that looped over and over and over.
Where I worked it was so bad...I had to wear earplugs. My employer said no...I said yes. Well...I lost in one sense, claimed victory in another.
I don’t blame you, dude. Respect!
LOL
1rst world here
Being open minded to all kinds of music is the mark of a true artist
Being a snob about what you listen to is usually fine, but being an arsehole to others who listen to Pop (or whatever genre/artist) should be avoided
I agree, you like what moves you. I like rock, I don't like all rock. I like jazz, I don't like all jazz... on and on... I play in a band and I don't "like" every single song we play, but enough to play them and move other people.
This needs to be said by someone like Rick in a video. This is the point right here - You do you, dont diss others for what they do
I agree Jacob. Everyone sitting there respects everyone's musical preferences.
I know. But I work with kids who don’t even know who the Beatles are. No I can not name one Ariana Grande song. But come on! The Beatles!
Just say-" My toddler dances to that song." Or, " My dog sleigh rides across the carpet on his ass when that song plays"
My very first concert was Yes in 1977 in St. Louis. I remember I was just old enough to drive. My head is still reverberating. Jon Anderson and company still color my world. RIP Chris Squire, one of the best bass players ever.
Steven Vicino I was prolly there - Donovan opened i think
Yes, RIP Chris Squire. "Heart of the Sunrise" one of my favorites.
Great discussion!! It's hard to listen to a lot of pop music when your ears are trained. My dad was a professional muso and like Rick did with his son, I was ear training at a young age. My first gig was when I was in kindergarten and the band was the Sydney Symphony Orchestra because dad was in the pit playing and we couldn't afford a babysitter. I listen to all kinds of music, from Manson to Mozart, but pop has changed over the years as technology has advanced. Nowadays all the edges are rounded off music, it is highly polished and what we are hearing is a kind of artificiality. Tempo's are strict, the same snare sample is used through out, and the vocals are processed to the point it is almost like a robot is vocalising. If a song is going to grab me, it has to have a sense of authenticity to it and that is what my ears are searching for. I love 90's hip hop like Dre's the Chronic, but when I compare that to modern Trap, it just doesn't give me the fizz like those earlier recordings. Instead of listening to a hot drummer and thinking, man that cat can play; I am thinking about how quantised everything is and focusing on the production instead of how the music makes me feel. I think I just want music to be dangerous again, I want it to make a statement and I long to hear the interplay between a great band and a talented producer. Having said that, it is all G if one is a music snob or a casual, each to their own. Thanks for the awesome content guys!
I'm a visual artist so I tend to make visual comparisons and what you said reminded me of the 90's and early 2000's when the first CG movies and shows started to be made, and everything was too perfect, lighting was too strict, edges were too sharp, characters were too symmetrical, and surfaces were just too smooth. It was all just too perfect, and false and fake, and now one really liked it very much. It made things seem childish and flat and boring. It seems to me that many people feel that is the way pop music is becoming, which to me is a strange direction to head for the music industry, especially since thanks to the internet it is so easy to find interesting stuff to listen to and for artist to find alternative means of making good stuff and to get paid for it.
Interesting take, I like some Trap, actually the more experimental future beats as it’s experimental with sound manipulation. I think trap has evolved hip hop but the sound would probably change in 10 years or so because it does kinda have a really formulaic sounds sometimes.
It's formulaic, repetitive, very derivative, there's little creativity or experimentation within popular music because record companies are about making money for themselves, and they're not driven by passion for the music. It's a product designed to sell to as broad an audience as possible now, not a craft. I think it's missing the love put into making it. Even the artists themselves became products.
I think mainstream artists are not necessarily untalented, but are very limited in their artistic freedom to what will sell in the mainstream. Their music is factory made music, fast food culture.
That's why I love the underground scene. It's so much more alive (even though you still get a lot of crap) because there's so much more freedom of expression in the music coming from there.
The jazz coma, LOVE IT!!!!!! I'm a rehabilitated jazz snob who now can listen to a wider variety of stuff now. Elitism is a killer.
Rick has shown us some new and different and good music. That’s what I like.
As a guitar teacher I can understand the anti pop music bias. Lots of my younger students request modern pop songs. I pull the song up on UA-cam " Ok the first part goes Am, F, C,G. The second part goes Am, F, C, G. Then stop playing during the rap. The 4th part goes Am, F, C,G but louder". (I never criticize the song to the kid)I don't find production interesting no matter how well done if the tune of the song sounds like a nursery rhyme and the background repeats thru the whole song.
Try writing a pop song. Try writing a "nursery rhyme" melody *that people like*. It is incredibly difficult to do well.
I'm sure people though Yeah Yeah Yeah by the Beatles was the Gucci Gang (which is also the lyrics to the whole song) of the time.
Country music was known as three chords and the truth. Punk was made fun of for its three chord progression. Old blues had the AAB vocal pattern to a I IV V chord progression.
Not complaining about the number of chords or simplicity there are plenty of genius 3 chord country and blues songs. "Get Up Stand Up" by Bob Marley has 1 chord and is an amazing song. To me a guy making a 4 chord repeating loop on a computer with auto tuned vocals is just not is good but That's just my opinion
Thank you! Same here. Trying not to offend my students but geez!
@@Markstun isnt that song using the root but moving along a scale anyway? i mean a lot of songs that are 3 chords and more popular music use more chords but dont use their respective scales to create a more wholesome sound. Not sure if i'm screwing up some fundamental music theory with what i said.
I'll listen to anything but not always more than once.
hey, I get it, I don't agree, but I totally get it
Cool....though to be honest I'm not sure what you disagree with.
I wholeheartedly agree. I'll listen to almost anything once.
I'm sure we all have music that we will listen to without ever tiring of. I wonder if you think I meant that I only listen to everything once....... Not at all. I try to listen to everything at least once but I've probably listened to Sgt Pepper for example ( the first lp I bought) at least 7,000 times and will never stop listening to it from time to time. When it was the only thing I had I was on it 10 times a day...Hahahaha
I put slightly differently: I try anything once, good things more often. But, yeah, same gist.
I managed a music retail shop for years. Everyone is a music snob in some form or other.
This is true
It's more of openly disowning and degrading what you personally don't like in social situations. Don't know if I would call that snobbing.
@@TheRealCowlick Good point
It's called taste.
Remember the scene in High Fidelity where Jack Black teases the customer for wanting “I just called to say I love you”? That made me sad but apparently it also made Jack Black sad because he understands liking the song that wasn’t cool. I do too.
I'm glad you gave "Black Gives Way To Blue" a mention because it is a very worthy addition to the AIC catalogue
It's a great album. It's not "2000s good", it's "90s good".
My fave AIC record :)
Snarky Puppy is one of the best things to ever happen to collaborative music. 😍
Ghost Note is pretty good, too.
You might like Vulfpeck or Thundercat
@@christophermeggison2986 With Vulfpeck, I like their heavy grooves, e.g., Tesla from Live at Madison Square Garden. The pocket is deep there. For Thundercat, I'm only familiar with The Golden Age of Apocalypse. Some interesting stuff there to be sure. Songs such as Fleer Ultra and Boat Cruise are standouts on that album for me. Haven't heard much beyond that, though.
They’re always so in tune 🤣
I don’t need a video to find out I’m a music snob. I’m subscribed here!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
"Their first album is their best though, before they sold out"
"I don't know any popular music, I only listen too *insert complicated, cerebral genre with (unfortunately)elitist following"
"Drum machines killed real music"
"I only listen to post-psychedelic math rock"
Hahaha totally
I only listen to post industrial scooby doo chase music
I remember Blondie's album "Parallel Lines", which had "Heart of Glass" on it. I read a review in one magazine which said it was the greatest album ever done by a New Wave artist, and that it was a pity that they'd never get the airplay they deserved. A few weeks later "Heart of Glass" took off as a huge hit, and in the same magazine I read a review saying how pathetic it was that Blondie had sold out to disco, thus losing all credibility.
I thought to myself, "isn't this the same magazine which said this was such a great album?". So I dug through my pile of old magazines and found the original review. And not only was it a review in the same magazine, but both reviews were WRITTEN BY THE SAME PERSON!
I also remember someone coming into my office at work sometime around the time when Pink Floyd was crushing album charts around the world with "The Wall". Someone visiting me noticed a page about Pink Floyd that I had tacked up on my bulletin board (a full-page ad from Billboard). He said "I used to really love them, before they sold out to pop radio and released 'Dark Side of the Moon'.". I felt like throwing him off the top of the building.
None of the modern innovations are inherently bad. It’s just that the tippy-tippy-top of the most succesful music right now is more like a fashion show or multi-media marketing campaign first and foremost, and the music itself is just feels the soundtrack accompanying it. The part with the least effort.
As Neil Peart wrote:
_All this machinery making modern music_
_Can still be open-hearted_
_Not so coldly charted_
_It's really just a question of your honesty_
Mal-2 KSC Well put. They are tools and can be used to make an honest peice of art.
Saddly people chose to support superficial trash like Cardi-B.
Sometimes it feels like the music videos took more time and energy to create than the actual song.
If you want to take a long view of things, the guitar is a modern innovation.
@@shitmandood: People go to Madge's "concerts" the way NASCAR fans go to a track to see someone slam into a brick wall. They're there to ses a spectacle.
I’ll listen to anything and if it’s good I’ll like it but it seems everything that I like has a guitar in it and is at least 20 years old.
Real drums, a drivimg bass line...
Then my guess is you aren't into the indie scene at all. There's PLENTY of excellent guitar-driven music that's come out in the last 20 years. Wolf Parade's Apologies to the Queen Mary album is a good start.
I'm an awful music snob, but I think it's because music is so important to me and central to my being.
I worked for a guy once and the moment he told me that music was just a distraction that meant nothing to him, he became a zombie to me.
You'll grow out of it
I would have had the same reaction. The guy's attitude sounds very snobby, but not in a musical way.
I feel like there's a progression of music snobbery:
In the beginning it's easy; you don't know anything about music, but you know that you like some and don't like others based on visceral, automatic responses.
Then, if you're inclined, you start to figure out why you like certain things and don't like others. You begin to learn about music and the standards and rudiments we've settled on as a society that separate "good" music from "bad" music in a general way. You then learn to branch out and listen to things outside of your comfort zone because your definition of "good" music has expanded. This stage lasts the longest and, for a lot of people, the last stage of their musical evolution, but there is another.
I believe that once you reach a certain stage you realize that the only real difference between "good" and "bad" music is authenticity, i.e. is this music a passionate expression of real human emotion or is it a shameless, focus-grouped, mass-produced cash grab? Or, if it is a mixture of the two (as so much modern pop music is), to what degree is it one or the other and how much can you tolerate.
There are, of course, many other factors contributing to modern Top 40 being the way it is: economic, technological, sociological, etc... I would say, in vastly oversimplified fashion, that predatory capitalism has turned people away from "the music business", but technology has made it cheaper and easier than ever to consume music or even produce your own. Most people nowadays have so many different avenues through which to listen to music that not being a snob, not having a high bar as to what is acceptable to listen to, only serves to overwhelm you with the sheer scope and scale of available music. Also, back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, Top 40 was, by definition, whatever happened to be popular at the time, regardless of genre. Maybe it's a prog-rock odyssey, maybe it's from a movie soundtrack, maybe it's a folk duet. Over time, a sort of distillation occurred where music stopped reaching the Top 40 incidentally and instead was designed to do so, which is where the "Pop" genre came from. Think about it: Pop is short for popular, as in music that people like. Except now, that isn't true. Pop is its own genre complete with its own set of common practices and expectations born of the feedback loop of producing music designed to appeal to the most people possible - the lowest common denominator - in service of making the most money possible.
My final point is that music snobbery is a luxury. Consuming music, while cheaper by the day, still costs money. Sure, Spotify and whatever are free, but only if you have a device capable of utilizing such things and can afford access to the internet. Thankfully, the entry barriers are as flimsy as ever to that level of consumption, but they do exist. As such, saying you are a music snob is effectively saying "I can afford to find and listen to the music that pleases me". I, for instance, haven't actively listened to the radio since the early 2000s when I got my first Walkman, then iPod, car stereo w/cd player, and now smart phone. Early access to computers, the internet, Napster, Limewire, and the like gave me the tools to procure and create my own mix CDs and playlists, allowing me to largely circumvent the radio. Now, when I'm forced to listen to the current Top 40 stuff, whether at work or driving a car with limited connectivity, even if it's a song I like, the presence of advertising and the fact that I have very little control, if any, over what I'm listening to is enough for me to prefer listening to my own thoughts.
I have nothing to add other than this is a very well thought out comment, and rings true.
stefanomatic lol agreed. A bit long for a UA-cam comment eh? But I respect the topic
Sophisticated does not equal good. Simple does not equal bad. Ted Hawkins, one of the greatest musicians ever, tuned his guitar to open E and barred the strings to make chords. Some of his best songs have two chords and basic strumming. Emotion is the only thing that matters. Every technique and style of production exists to create a certain feeling.
I started listen music with the dangerous album of Michael Jackson, I listened everyday, then I became a fan of the Rolling Stones with the voodo lounge album ... Then I started playing glockenspiel in the school orchestra so I felt in love with chamber and orchestal art of music; I love Oliver Messian, Stockhausen, Varese, Stravinsky, Revueltas, J. Carrillo of cousre Chopin, Vivaldi etc... ; but, when a friend took his bass guitar to the school I felt so in love with that instrument than I decide to became a musician for the rest of my life ... I started to listen all the greatest bass players and the greatest bass rock and jazz songs ; also modern electronic music like PVD, oakenfold , aphex twin and others heavy POP culture... I started focus all my day to the bass sounds ...Hehe ... Studying bass teach me so many things in my life ... So I like all kind of music if it's made from the heart and soul ... The copy/paste no risky pop or even worst the tough reggeton sex for money music of the last years I think it's boring boring boring and I could say I hate it ... It's like tortue all that of massive produced and hyper masterized inert sounds .... I really hate that... songs?? ... ??? .... ..... ..... Peace
Many women have long dexterous slender fingers and the physical potential to be wonderful guitarists.
I'm a live snob. I don't give two flips about "production". What is it going to sound like live? That's what I'm after - always have been.
That has been the major difference with bands- any person who plays somewhat can be made to sound good in a studio with enough production. But if you can’t stand on a stage and PLAY, you’re not a musician, you’re an entertainer.
@@trishg_79 There are lots of groups out there that sound good live. Vocals in particular.
Rhcp has to be the best example of a great live band. Their studio work is great, but watching them live is on another level completely.
@@The_ScapeGoat what’s your opinion on Keidis’s vocals? I’ve heard mixed reviews on his live performances but I’ve seen some really strong live vocals.
@@Junkiescum He can be vocally inconsistent at times playing live.
In think the reason I was so pulled into punk music had mainly to do with the lyrics. I.e., Bad Religion and D.K. I mean...they really had something to say
I think it's relative. Liking jazz automatically makes you a "snob" in some circles, not being into opera and classical makes you a troglodyte in some. It's such a personal preference. My wife thinks I'm a music snob, because I call "new country" pop with a slight twang.
Tom Petty called modern country: "Bad rock and roll with a fiddle.". That really sums it up.
Just using the word troglodyte makes you a snob.
Once they took the clap track from R&B, it turned into something other than country music.
I call it hick-hop, probably only a handful of “real” country songs have come out of Nashville in the last 10-15 years or so.
The fun thing about the variety of music is that someone will enjoy it!
Rick is very generous. Most pop I hear is “meh” at best.
I know this is an old comment, but that's what I love about pop these days, for the most part it's meh, so it's down to me and my instrument to make it more exciting to me.
Yes, I'm a music snob, and proud about it. But, if something is good, it is good. You have to be big enough to admit that, no matter what kind of music it is. Love Keiths vids about guitar history.
Art is subjective. There is no "objectively good" music.
@@swissarmyknight4306 "disco duck" was objectively bad.
@@elkalabaw7665 FACTS! 😂😂😂😂
You know that movie based on a true story about the tone deaf opera singer who wound up becoming world famous, Florence Foster Jenkins,... or any sort of crazy avant-garde jazz, Pollock paintings.... art is definitely objective, theres a time and place for everything
Country anyone? I've lived my entire adult life west of the Mississippi among the country demographic, between sagebrush and dirt roads, surrounded by bars where NashVegas country dominates the jukeboxes. I can. not. stand. it. The lyrics are cliched and chord progressions simplistic. I won't argue with sales and airplay, and I won't begrudge anyone who likes it, but I can't warm up to it. I will spin on my heel and walk out of the aforementioned pub at the first mention of a pickup truck or a dirt road.
So no pickup trucks or dirt roads for you. But at least you can still tolerate tractors!
The bro-country of today is utterly ridiculous, with predictable chord progressions and sappy, emasculated lyrics. I grew up on classical music & Megadeth, Slayer and Anthrax, in the middle of rural cowboy country......not exactly sure how that happened, but thank god!
If the pick ups don't have a gun rack and a bale of hay in the back, not interested.
that'll teach 'em. but you've got to be a stone cold moron to walk in a bar and not know the kind of music they're playing.
There are some great country songs--even with trucks and dirt roads. What country has that is often missing from other music, is the storytelling, and lyrics. Mainstream country is cliched, and panders, but there are some gems.
I like when all three of you laughed after saying you were joking about being music snobs. I laughed too because I've been known to snob out on certain music. I'm more open minded with music these days. But it's just like you said, music is at it's finest when musicians are interacting together, live. When it's performed right there's a magic that nothing can top. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
"I hated it, but not enough to listen to it again to figure out why," quote from the movie Yesterday
people shouldny have to justify why they hate or like certain music BUT they shouldnt hate or like someone just because of their taste in music
@@skyblazeeterno That makes less than no sense. (1) I'm gonna be the last person on the planet who feels like I have to justify ANYTHING to another human being, so take it from me: This is just a geeky conversation. (2) If one's taste in music doesn't determine... *what music one likes or doesn't*, please tell me what should???
Dead Kennedys! You should do a "What makes this song great" for them
California Uber Alles
Lets Lynch The Landlord
Your Emotions
Stealing Peoples Mail
Drug Me
Tons more to choose from
I'm with Dave: the reason I listen to most music - the thing that gives me the most pleasure - is hearing musicians interact with one another in real time. If that is absent, then the pleasure of listening to it is generally lost on me. If that makes me a snob, then so be it.
Do you only listen to live albums then?
@@cgiunta6542 I generally prefer live recordings, yes, or pre-1980s studio recordings, when the basic track (rhythm guitar, bass, and drums, at least) were generally recorded live, a tradition which, while not altogether lost, is hardly the norm in modern recording.
@@artturnerjr I would say live instruments recordings were still prevalent well into the 2000s
Love the Alan Parsons drop
“ l wouldn’t wanna be like you “
That’s one guy with a solid catalogue! Great videos Rick!
I love Black Gives Way to Blue and I get all kinds of slack for it from other AiC fans. I'm so glad to hear that you liked it too Rick. That album has made me cry more times than any other.
It`s awesome!
Dont like modern auto tune quantized crap... So Yes
Auto-tune™ is 22 years old, but similar technology and techniques have been used long prior to that specific technology (for instance, altering Madonna's natural vocal range by speeding up the playback on songs like "Like A Virgin"). Auto-tune™ that we know (and love or hate) today happened as a glitch that piqued the interest of recording engineers and was made famous by Cher in 1998 ("Believe"). Guitar distortion is also a glitch that gained popularity, as well as feedback. All of these effects, now part of the recording canon, were initially rejected - heck, the electric guitar was originally considered an inferior product that would never gain acceptance... going back even further in time, there was a lot of resistance for an instrument that originally competed with the harpsichord called the "piano-forte". As with just about anything else, I try to employ the 90/10 rule: 90% of everything is crap, and 10% of it is brilliant. There are margins that can slide either way, but you can't discount Auto-tune out of hand. Except for modern pop country, which is terrible.
Chris, you had such a good point until you kicked yourself in the ass with the country comment! 90/10 buddy. Maybe 99/1.
I currently play fretless bass mostly in tunr and sing occasionally in tune... I try... Jusy the way i love it!!!
For me the problem with autotune isn't it's use as an effect, like distortion on a guitar. What I hate about it is that it is used to cover up a bad performance by the artist. Yes, it makes it perfectly in tune, but it also levels out all the nuance in the performance, making the song sound lifeless and dull. Artists aren't pushed to give their best performance anymore. Instead we get an attitude of ''eh good enough, we'll fix it later on the computer.''
I think autotune also opens the door to the music industry to people who have no business being there. Actual talent takes a back seat to a pretty face and marketability.
@@Gluttonforpeace I love country, I just hate pop country... Give me real country music all day!
Completely agree with all three of you guys. New music is mostly missing something.
RB - I would love it if you gave Emily Keener a shout out for her birthday.
The fun thing about music snobs: if you talk to the parent generation of the time at which e.g. 40's music was popular, it was partly "scandalous" as guys and girls wanted to go dance with each other, Rock 'n' Roll was "ape music" etc. It's all in the perspective and age always mellows the view on it.
Even 300 years ago when Bach was living music snobs snobbed about the newly developed well-tempered piano as it wasn't tuned precisely enough.
RICK, thank you for saying this about Black Gives Way to Blue. Its a great album
I'm a musical snob... I love the best from any and every genre.
Highly doubt it.
@@canismajoris6733 You must really know him to make that statement.
@@robertkennedy8503 Paul must really not know himself to make that statement
It really says a lot about these songs when all you can say is "man, that production quality sure is incredible"
Everyone wants to chop music up into micro genres and say how "their" choice is the true music. I can't see being that limited. There is just too much fun and interesting music to listen to.
I believe people that most people that say modern music suck aren't looking hard enough. Even back in the day, A&R guys were listening to hundreds of recordings a day from people sending in their works in the hopes of getting signed. People don't want to go through all the dirt to find the diamonds even with the help of the internet.
@@goodun2974 The beauty of the modern age, to me, is that I *have* to sift through the dirt to find diamonds. Think about how many artists you did not hear because a radio DJ didn't like their sound! Now that power is in the hands of the listener, so finding a really specific sound you like, or really any sound in general, is much easier and gives that awesome feeling of finding a gem and spreading it to your friends. I'm a child of the modern age though, so I can't really contrast it with the experiences of the 70s and such, but I really like the modern way of things
There are new songs that have catchy hooks and great production. There is no creativity or feel, but it’s a business and repetitive formulas equal downloads.
@@remoevans2793
Someone not trying hard enough to find great modern music. Jinjer fans would disagree with you. Look harder and stop being closed minded.
"I'm not a music snob, that crap you listen isn't music" lol
Well, to be fair, it isn't. :^)
@@FahlmanCascade haha that's why I always liked this expression. I believe there is SOME merit to being a music snob, they're just guardians of the artform who have high expectations.
This is the real comment Haha
"What kind of music do you like?" "Rap." "No, I asked what kind of MUSIC do you like." Kids hate it when I do that.
@@ER-yq1lc You just intentionally want to incite people? OK, kids.
Thing is, rap is a wide spectrum. There's Eminem, there's Machine Gun Kelly. There's a lot of in-between there.
Memory plays such a huge role in our enjoyment of music. I have a playlist on my phone of the songs I heard as a kid growing up, and a lot of them I'm actually not fussed by the song itself, but when I play it I'm transported to specific times and places from my childhood/youth.
Rick Beato is one of those rare people that can have a conversation about any kind of music. Then he goes a step higher on the scale and can tell how they do it and can then play it himself. He would be a great person to know. I can probably pick my favorite kinds of music or bands and he'll know more about it than I will. lol
Genesis Firth Of Fifth, talk about a mini symphony... just sayin'
I’m not a music snob, I just don’t like inferior music.
you came to the wrong place-his lousy taste astounds me but I still like it here
Hi Rick! This was very interesting to watch as a younger, contemporary music listener who started out playing music listening to rock from the 70's and 80's. Wouldn't it be interesting to have a conversation like this but with people from older and younger generations, to have different points of view?
I've been a singer/musician/song writer for most of my life (I'm 51), and have been profoundly moved by iconic rock bands such as Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, and the Rolling Stones just to name a few. The truth is, I also listen to wide array of music and always have. I take something away from almost everything I hear. Ariana Grande has a incredible voice. Justin Timberlake is infectious, and ultra smooth. It all depends on my mood and what catches my ear. The "surprise" as you referred to. The "muse" of the song if you will. Thelonious Monk happens to be in the backdrop tonight. The ambiguity and subjective facet of music in itself makes it incredibly enjoyable. Great discussion! Cheers
Thank you for giving “Black gives way to blue” the props it deserves. I’ve been a diehard AIC fan since Facelift dropped in 1990, and I absolutely love their Devall era stuff. I actually find myself listening to the new era more, not because I like it more than the early records, but because I’m just so familiar with everything in the old records, and there are intricacies and complex structures in the new records that are just gold. “The devil put dinosaurs here” is my favorite from the new era and it would be cool to do a video on the new AIC material.
Listened to lionel Ritchie the other day and it had about six distinct parts in it. Pop music doesn't have to moronic.
Hello?
Lionel Ritchie wrote a lot of things for an interesting assortment of people, and finessed them to work in the genre the people were in.
That said, even though I liked the Hello song, as a sightling when it first came out, and still like it now, as a song, I become overwhelmingly embarrassed and mortified when it comes on like this morning in the grocery store and I can't hide, (as a blind person). I was on my way to the checkout when it came on, and I thought, "Oh no. I cannot stand in a line of people while this plays. 😳 I took a hard turn and went to the automotive section on the aisle not very many people go into. The video is so much more controversial now. It makes it feel cheesier than it is.
I like pop music from the 1960s!
1,000 times this. My daughter was like 4 when Frozen came out. I was mezmerized by "Let it go". That is a perfect song IMO (and I generally do not like that kind of music at all). But every element of that songs is wondrous: the lyrics, vocal performance, the way the music tells a narrative through emotion, the cresendo an release; the massive variety of instruments all combined to a greater whole.
Most of what I hear on the radio today reminds me of being in someone's garage when I was 13 and they were trying to figure out how to play: simple, repetitious and lacking ambition.
Yeah, I'm a snob.
@@goodun2974 But that's Jackson Browne. It's just Lindley on Slide, is it not?
You’re going to have to get Keith a black T- shirt. Love when he’s on.
look under his blue jean jacket....for sure its a Black t-shirt lol
Dave tells me that the "Dojo Guitar Repair" shirt is in the mail.
Navy, it's navy.
He only shows the T after he steps into a phone booth...so doesn't happen that much these days
I hit that like button the moment "Big Wreck" was mentioned. Hope Rick does a "What makes this song great?" about Big Wreck.
Ian Thornley might be THE most underrated guitarist/singer/songwriter of the past 25 years
Dear Rick et all.... I put on the Golden Handcuffs quite a few years ago and walked away from a "right place right time" opportunity that I will NEVER be able to buy my way back into... even with all of the Gold I got for trading away my soul... and thirty years.
Soon I will be less employed ( mostly retired ) and then I can get back to doing what really made me smile...
A few years ago I put a post on Craig's List
"Good Music, Great Players, A Really Fun Time, or good pay..... give me two in that list and I'm interested"
Thank you SOOOOOOO much for your conribution.
We all have different ears, not snobby but different. I listend to vinyl at the age of 3 and music never left me. Its the passion that
catches you.
It cought me, now I'm almost 63
and try to teach music with passion.
From Abba to Zappa.
We've had a "Golden Age " of wonderfull music, Blues, Jazz,
Rock, Soul and everything in between.
Let them hear everything, with
respect.
With passion.
I try to!
All music is good music, as long as it COMMUNICATES something to someone.
Rick I appreciate your videos. Your doing a lot for people. And it’s a great medium in between all the bullshit in the world. Thank you
We were so blessed to have grown up with this music of the 70's. The kids have almost no idea how rewarding that music is, compared to today. I can't tell you how many students I have effortlessly influenced (altering their musical education) using some strange aura left-over from our generation's (almost esoteric) love of the music. Keep that old faith and the feeling alive!
When I wanna hear something new and refreshing, I put on 50 year old progressive rock albums.
This was great and all absolutely true… my teenage daughters are right into their music and have continually gravitated backwards into “my/60’s/70’s/80’s/90’s” music… they genuinely think it’s way more interesting! I put it down to better songs at the core, more interesting progressions, multiple “voices” in the group (players), collaboration, most importantly UNIQUE !!! A perfect example is the first time I played them, ‘Call Me Al’ or ‘Sledgehammer’ or ‘Golden Slumbers’…. Their reaction was ALWAYS the same…. “DAD…WHAT’S THIS?” Another great example was when the Queen Movie came out… they’d regularly say…”music isn’t this interesting anymore”
There is something massively inspiring about Rick Beato's enthusiastic open minded approach to all genres, even the most repetitive, technology drenched modern pop tunes! This UA-cam channel is pure gold to me. Thank you so much Rick for creating this extremely informative and passionate music channel! You provide insight from all angles and your theoretical knowledge of music is just outstanding...
Somewhere around age 12 music became more than just a light form of entertainment and thanks to my brother and many music loving friends/family around me, I was surrounded by all genres and styles of music. I started dissecting the instrumentation of my favourite bands from an early age and separating the different instrument's parts while still being able to appreciate a song as a whole. Unfortunately playing bass for 25+ years and analysing music so intensely meant when I heard themes and influences that were repeated time and again, I slowly started to get a little jaded with anything new that sounded far too close something to something I heard before. Usually it lacked the original spark... Up until the mid 2000's it really seemed like music across the board was evolving in some capacity to some extent but really nose dived as far and quality verses quantity in recent times....
Now being in my mid 40's and having an absolute passion for music since my pre-teens, the conversation between you three is insanely relevant to me because over the last 15 years as I have found myself extremely cynical and dismissive of most mainstream modern music. I realised I started missing some real magic outside the box because I convinced myself that everything under the sun has been written/played in music and it was all getting dumbed down with the "overuse" of technology at the cost of musicianship and the organic songwriting process. The bottom line is that I was just looking/listening at the wrong platform for new and innovative music. In Australia at least, the once reliable radio stations that launched some of our best and most innovative acts have become ultra generic and air playlists that are so devoid of originality or character. Most of the young artists coming up have such limited influences and their music is just bland, 1 dimensional or just primitive yet it seems to be celebrated as something super creative. I just don't hear it... Anyway, the only way to discover music that actually pushes the envelope and offers something new is through online platforms such as UA-cam and recommendations from friends who are adventurous in their musical tastes.
Will I'm here... Let Me throw this musician and Her music out there. Tal Wilkenfeld and Her album 'Love Remains'. What do You 'Guys' think of Her music? I just love it. Although as the fellas were saying in the video, You have to listen to a it few times to get it. Especially Her vocals sometimes are some what 'different'. I can listen to it now over and over again it's so good.
The problem I have with pop music, especially of today, is that they're not drawing any influences from actual music, it's mostly about superficial lookism and/or the appearance of wealth and freedom to behave in any way you want. This shows in both the music, lyrics, and the videos, which influences youth in detrimental ways. I literally think it can affect the way young people behave towards others and perhaps also affect their view on life in general.
Back in earlier decades, hell even in the 90's, I don't really get the feeling that popular genres back then were _really_ trying to be something they're not, I don't get a _trying to be the next this or that for the sake of success_ type vibe from the bands back then, they were just doing their own thing and you could find so much music that sounded sonically original and interesting harmonically too, even within one sub genre alone, like alternative rock.
Nowadays it's banging out hits with complete and utter disregard for real musicality & authenticity, lookism & beauty are essential to the mix, lyrics often fowl... man I don't really wanna keep typing so I'll stop.
Owen Great comment. Is the icon pic Lyle Mays from Metheny’s band or do look just like him?
@@fivewattworld Hi Keith and thanks. Yeah it's Lyle Mays.
Video killed the radio star
Elvis only got singed because he had a black sounding voice in a white man's body, He never wrote a single one of his songs, he was just the pretty boy that could sell music with this looks and dancing. He was only singed because he was pretty and white. If you think using looks to sell music is only a modern thing in pop music then your really dense and really not that bright. It's be going on sense forever as most pop music is sold to the youth and the youth are pretty shallow and value looks above all else. Take off your rose tinted glasses because things were not better in the past.
@@MrStephen182 You're not wrong that pop music in general focuses on lesser things even in the earlier decades, the likes of Pat Metheny & Frank Zappa have openly scorned pop music in 80's interviews saying it was never about the actual music being played, and more about appearances etc.
Even now that I'm older I'm man enough to say that one of my favorite bands Led Zeppelin, while I think they have some obviously great songs, particularly the more acoustic ones, I can say that if we're to judge music objectively, the overall music quality of say Keith Jarrett, as a completely different musician but still, we're talking about music here, is far superior to that of Led Zeppelin, again I don't care that the styles are different, as I get older Keith Jarrett is who I'll be listening to more than LZ.
The point of me saying this is to recognise that LZ to a degree, were a part of the pop image in comparison to that of Jazz music which wasn't as popular, yet the quality was objectively higher.
I never implied that pop music wasn't about shallow things in the past, but if you were to pay attention to the lyrics and their meanings in some of today's popular music, it's absolute night & day in terms of the sheer level of degeneracy and gestural expression. Sure maybe throughout the decades it was getting more and more lewd and open anyway, hell even Frank Zappa who I mentioned before is an example of making terrible music with awful lyrics as a way of just not giving an F and rebelling against his parents/elders/generation at the time. Yet he could also write music and was influenced by classical composers, so had a framework to work with. The Beatles while popular in a similar way and level to Elvis were capable of writing actual good tunes. Yeeeeeeeah not many kids in the pop scene today are capable of doing the same thing my guy, playing a few chords on guitar or piano doesn't exactly cut it. Also Elvis I'm pretty sure got his whole style from Little Richard, who even later Prince adopted with the makeup and fashion sense.
While production is immense in the genre, musically, the main reason I keep gravitating away from the American pop music and scene is that most singers/pop-artists in the genre don't know when to melodically _stop_. If you look at the majority of the pop music on the top-40 list, there is very little melodic "structure" nor rest. Everything is one, run-on line that gives no breathing room, which makes it exceedingly boring for me. Basically, the songwriter teams have forgotten that the best melodies are like conversations, they have a flow with starts and stops, variation of pitch, and rhythmic interest.
To add to it, for me, I want to hear a section stripped of vocals and hear the layered keyboard or bass, or some interesting rhythm in the percussion, or SOMETHING other than the main vocalist yammering on about some overused tired tagline or lyrics that are rubbish, putting it nicely and not giving up the floor for other instruments to "speak". As again, it leads the song to be a "conversation" of tones.
@@goodun2974 story type songs with interesting lyrics DO seem to be lacking.
I disagree about lack of space for other instruments to come through...I think its FAR better nowadays as it tends to be more minimalist
Feel like a lot of songs today are little more than song ideas that don't get fleshed out. Instead, they just repeat the little snippett over and over for 3 and a half minutes.
I’m exactly like Rick. I can appreciate something in every song whether it be musicianship, composition, production, mix, instrument tones or performance.
Love Jazz. But I'll admit it wasn't until recently (the past five years or so), that I've really grown and appreciation for it. Most of my life Classic Rock of the 60's 70's 80's & 90's has been my main listening. Everything from the Beatles and Bob Dylan to REM and the Cranberries. Although I also like Classical, Old school country, and even Rat Pack music. Sinatra, Martin, Sammy Davis, etc. Stuff my Dad listened to. But I've built up a nice Vinyl record collection of Jazz lately: Miles Davis, Coltrane, Lee Morgan, Sonny Rollins, Chet Baker, Gordon Dexter, Charles Parker Bird, Eric Dolphy, David Brubeck, Art Blakey, etc... Amazing musicians, such an awesome listening experience. Opened up a whole new world of music for me. But I've been saturated in great music ever since my Mom put on that first Beatle record when I was only 3 yrs old. I feel I grew up in the Renaissance of music. The greatest time for music ever Imho.
Taylor Swift really plays her guitar. Check out her NPR Tiny Desk appearance. Great timing, accenting, baseline runs while singing. So the guitar isn’t just a prop to her. I’m not really a fan of hers except for a couple of songs but she is a real musician.
I can play all the basic chords on a piano too but I would never call myself a pianist
@@stevebanning902 The difference is she uses the instrument to come up with songs, as well as perform live. I don't think anyone considers her a guitarist, herself most likely included, but playing chords and singing in front of crowds is still waaay better than lipsyncing without playing anything in the same scenario.
@@badbasic ah just what we all need, another break up song... Which is why i don't listen to her. I can get that in Country.
What they said. I very seldom hear something in modern pop music that makes me pull off the road,park and forget where I was going.
If you do that with music you enjoy, then you certainly shouldn't listen to your own choice of music when you drive. That would be extremely inconvenient.
Sometimes there are songs that don't withstand a few listens. There is no depth to them, and they sound like they were made by a machine with no one behind it.
Yea. "Watermelon Sugar High" killed my ear worms.
Good music is everywhere, but u have to look for it. In every genre , something to learn...
Thumbs up for a story never told! And I'm glad I heard your ideas about the lack of jazz bands and community. some interesting ideas, there.
Poke:Mike the Music Snob
If you're talking about women with guitars, I'd mention Samantha Fish long before Taylor Swift!
& Larkin Poe.
Chrissie Hynde is a great rhythm player and always has been.
never heard of them
Heart
Rick, i'm 34, I feel i'm an interesting generation, I was raised as the same as my sister who was born in 79, so I was watching GOOD mtv at a very young age. At 9yo in 1994, I wanted so badly to go to woodstock 94 and stayed glued to the tv the whole summer over that LOL. My mom was going back to school in the early 90s, so I experienced a LOT of college rock/alternative from that era. I feel that the problem today is this: Connecting music with the listeners. All the major players these days want to play it safe to make money. You know there's a lot of great musicians out there making music in 2019, but as an avid listener, where do I go to find music? Radio? haha, all the stations here are owned by the same company, all automated. Spotify? it just keeps suggesting music I've already heard, most the time that's already in my liked music section. It does a terrible job of giving me new music. XM and Pandora have been my best bet so far, but still only getting very mainstream stuff. How do we connect the listeners to the music? THAT is the question....
You gotta get your band on Netflix or Twitter or SnapChat I guess...?
Personally, I've found literally hundreds of new bands from suggestions on UA-cam and Facebook. I agree, Spotify doesn't do good on suggesting new bands, but UA-cam does. You just have to search around.
The easiest way to is to note which labels your current favorite bands are on, then check out other bands on that label. I find tons of great bands doing this.
@@canaanjustice1725 Can you suggest a good current band to start with so that UA-cam starts suggesting good stuff in my feed?
Big Wreck comes to mind...
Agreed, but it isn’t only pop and jazz, per se, where I see a dearth of interesting music. It crosses most genres these days. That is why what you do is soul nourishing, Rick. You might say, too, your analyses of music and everything, press the reset button on reality. Reality is when people enjoy good music and surreal is when we live in an unmusical world. Your channel and Brandon Acker’s are what inspire me most on You Tube. Thank you.
Hello Rick, I love this discussion and I think you are totally right! There's one Idea I want to ad to this: What we all are missing is the interaction of several musicians, either on a record and of course on stage. And many people do miss this too. You can see that, because there are a lot of 'dinosaurs' that still play their music live and then people come to this concerts, because there are this interacting musicians, who make music living thing! And I think, this will go on as long as there are good bands who play their music live.
After years of buying CDs with one or two good songs...
I'll listen to anything streamed.
Well, only since when I got my first radio. Back in 1970, I was like 7 years old :)
I got my first transistor radio, a Sony back in 71 or 72, to this day, some of the.music back then I still love...Elton John, Jackson Browne, Jo Jo Gunn, Rod stewart...
"Thank you Scientist" Is also a very cutting edge band... Just my two cents worth.
Check out Ripe as well
@@grandarchon6969 Jimi, I always knew you weren't a music snob!!
I'd add in a shout for "Bent Knee" too.
I've been in a jazz coma, all keys, all tempo's.I left my body turned of the life support.....and now I love all music....and Rick..!
LOL Rick!!! You hate the auto tune, that's an amazing realization for me, that I'm not alone among rockers. Appreciated!!
I'm a music snob FOR SURE! Blackberry Smoke lately were incredible, and Clutch on tour, 22!! Whaaaa? Thank Clutch, so Much!
Absolutely!
And I'm missing nothing. Because I love "music"!
Plot twist: Rick Beato is the only living person who isn't a music snob.
Andrew Lund 👆🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
😂😂😂
Nooooo way!
Yes, I am a music snob. I concur with the notion that music is too repetitive today. Most of it does not get anywhere. When bands stopped using expressive melodies, they limited how far a piece could progress using "production/orchestration". The upshot of this is that modern pieces go through 1 or 2 musically SIMILAR gyrations, instead of 4,5,6, or even 7 DISTINCT sections as they did in the past. When you fully express the melody, then follow it up with another complementary yet different section that is also melodic, the overall piece will burgeon. Limiting it to a repetition of the initial melodic line, while adding some drums, vocals, strings or something, will decrease the amount of musical "space" the piece covers. There is no substitute for fresh melodies that are compounded upon each other, that's why I personally continue to write melodies, even though most of the world has abandoned them. Melodies are rich and enticing, and make the piece sound full and tantalizing. Putting the music first is paramount. Content is King, and many songs nowadays just don't contain enough content.
Listen to stuff outside of top 40. Pop is not the only modern music there is. I've found some CRAZY forward-thinking music in 2019.
@@josephancion2190 That's right. This notion that people didn't make repetitive music before recent times is just ridiculous. Go to any decade in the 20th century and you can find "bad" music.
@@josephancion2190 Thanks for replying. It really depends on how much the musical pulse of the melody progresses, in my opinion. If we imagine the branches or choices of the notes and their offshoots, both sound and duration wise, (as depicted by sequences of notes), how far one goes "down the rabbit hole" of the multiverse is what describes the melodic parameters. This concept applies the movement of the notes branching choices to the concept of the multiverse. If done correctly, and there is a lot of motion, you cover a lot of space and time and really get somewhere by the end of the piece. Music can be compared to travelling through the multiverse, each new note takes a fresh turn (or not). Repetition, if hammered too frequently, is the limited version of the Multiverse idea. You can have changing notes or not. Changing notes: content. Without changes, chord wise, melodically, or rhythmic, a piece sounds banal. Right now, I really don't know who to listen to that is forward moving. Suggestions welcomed.
@@lunchbox9991 Yes, that may be true. However, I grew up on 80's radio and it really did not suck. Music that languishes has become maintstream, and I primarily blame the record companies, who don't know what they are doing and think it is fine. People like Taylor Swift also repeat notes to create an easy monotone.
@@josephancion2190 Exactly this pop radio is an extremely small sliver of the amount of music available. People always talk about "modern music" like pop radio is the only thing out there, when in fact not only is the _VAST_ majority of music *not* pop radio, but that's magnified to the extreme by the fact that the amount and variety of music being released today absolutely dwarfs the choice and volume that was available in the past. People who say things like "there is no good music today" are just lazy and seem to expect the radio and TV to just deliver them whatever suits their own personal taste instead of looking for what they like that isn't currently popular.
If someone likes a specific thing, they can still find someone making that kind of music today, and probably more people making it now than ever.
There are modern symphony composers, there are modern surf rock bands, there are modern glam metal bands, there are modern synth rock bands, there are modern jazz bands, modern big band.... bands, modern folk bands (of any region's folk), country, bluegrass, blues, ska, literally whatever the fuck someone wants. Not only the styles "of the past" if someone is stuck on something like that, but there are new styles of music that are created and evolve continuously.
Hey Rick. Love your videos. I am a jazz musician that also likes pop music. I taught music for 30 years and am the same age as you. Growing up I was exposed to a lot of different music and still feel the same. I play with big swing bands, small groups, pop groups and and currently doing pit work for a musical. As a drummer / percussionist I am always curious to hear new things. Keep up the good work!
Agree with all of you. I'm a 53 yo drummer from upstate NY (just 35 miles north of NYC). Not being from a musician family for me, it was age 4-8 was what my father born in 1940 played - Carpenters, Sinatra, Brubeck. Then by 10, I started my Beatles phase, until 1981 when I started playing drums in 9th grade, then my Zeppelin, Yes, then my Rush /Neil obsession years 83-87. Learned ALL the tunes note for note even without jazz technique (for Bonham) but still played them well. Then college in the late 80's at SUNY Oneonta with Nassau County guys going; "Hey check out this Billy Cobham with Mahavishnu Orchestra" - and my mind was blown. Got heavy into Fusion & Chick, Weckl, Coliauta, Chambers, etc. Gradually learned that stuff into the 90's while playing with numerous bands. From all of that, I groomed myself as a studio drummer, learned to respect Steely Dan from fusion, and became a big Dan fan, even. Hung alot out in the Village with jazz fan buddies from Oneonta from the city, got street smart, and saw a lot of great stuff in the early/mid nineties, met my drum hero's at the different clubs and dives, including Tony Williams at the Bottom Line with Jan Hammer in 1993. I moved out west in 97 and ended up playing in the jam band scene in UT/CA. Learned straight ahead jazz got into Miles, Coltrane, Bird, Tyner. Learned the standards on the gig. Learned brushes on the gig, and how to play a room and use improv in all styles by 2004. Whenever I fly back to NY to see family, I'll go to the 55 Bar (my favorite all time venue) and see Wayne Krantz, Keith Carkock, and Tim Lafevre who I've been fans of there since 97. Now living LA, I'll check Tim & Gary Novak out at the Baked Potato. Or go to the Blue Whale. Just moved here. Still seeing if I can handle the traffic before I decide to settle. In Redondo Beach area because traffic is manageable.
Long story short, my journey led me to play with straight ahead Jazz 'snobs'. But coming to Jazz and improv later, without music school, but always loving good pop, I can understand that whole attitude completely.
Also, I've always dug the interchangeability of jazz bands coming from a Rock background, but look at it from a different perspective from the community concept Rick just brought up here, because it does makes sense from a 'fandom knowing the band' standpoint. Especially from women's perspective.
Perhaps snobbery comes from the fact that for appreciation of music to widen, personally, I has to listen to music I didn’t necessarily like but could hear that it had quality/depth. I hated Close to the Edge by Yes when I first heard it (I had loved “The Yes Album” 1971?). I persevered and C to the E then became one of my all time favourite albums.
When I hear someone say they don’t like a “great” piece of music I tend to feel ... they don’t appreciate it yet and probably won’t give it time. I forget that some people mainly see music as entertainment .... and that’s okay. There are plenty of things I don’t give my time to.
The outro music at the end of this video drives me bats. Literally hurts my ears. That aside, watching the Grammy’s or any of these music award shows these days makes me realize it’s more important to be a dancer than have musical talent.
Hate to say it, but I agree about the outro. I don't like it. Some forms of music hurt to listen to, both rhythmically and harmonically. Maybe someone likes it, but not me.
It doesn't resolve well. I'm sure Rick Beato can explain the theory of why. The solution of course it to watch another episode.
id love to see you interview Mutt Lange
Hey Rick, Dave & Keith. I'm a 66 year old guy who started in rock bands courtesy of the British Invasion, but growing up in metro Chicago area found where it all started, The Blues! Played with all kinds of the real guys in town and on tour, had enough road stories to break up several homes, and I still play with some of the guys I met 40+ years ago. We're still standing, and we play together almost by osmosis. The thrill will never be gone.
Hey Rick, love the channel cause I'm still working on my craft. (just got the ear training course)
Keith, like your 5 watt world thing too. I fall in the middle of you guys with gear. Probably cause my kid is in college. Great stuff. Keep up the good work.
I will listen to anything as long as it's good. I agree most with the point that Dave made about needing the music before the production. It certainly feels like many artists are becoming successful and seeming like good songwriters because the immaculate production is saving their songs most of the time.
Turns out I'm a prog snob lol. I do listen to other genres, but not actively.
Plini fan?
@@frenchiesfrankieandhenry I'm more into 70s prog, but I do listen to modern prog sometimes. I like plini :)
@@mikeward4897 ok boomer
If you like prog, you may also find the following genres interesting: classical, jazz, some styles of world music, and math rock.
@@mikeward4897 king crimson baybeeee
80s Yes stuff is a good example for intelligent Pop
"It has great production value." = "It's a beautifully polished turd."
Noise pollution destroys the planet
A song can have good production value, regardless of how good or bad it actually is.
@@DarkArachnid666 that’s what his statement is saying, just like you can have a smart phone and still be a dumb ass.
@@DarkArachnid666 -- Like a movie with "Great Cinematography" that is boring as hell. Out of Africa, The English Patient, etc.
I’m very much a music snob!! I LOVE real singers, and musicians, who don’t rely on autotune and processed music!! Having been born in 1963, i grew up in the best time for original music with a wide variety!
Hey Rick watching your channel inspired me to get back to music after an 11 year hiatus- thanks for that. I was a classical musician trained in a conservatory. My Dad got a piano and played Mozart, Chopin, Beethoven and Bach. My mom bought us Simon & Garfunkel, Journey, and the soundtracks to Broadway musicals. I got involved with choir at church and school and learned that huge history of choral masterworks and symphony and opera. Kids at school played me Rush, Boston, Styx, Kansas. Of course Beatles, ubiquitous in the 70's. Too long story short: you know what is good when you hear it. The last bands I bought were Rammstein and WolfMother... So I'd say yes I'm a music snob. Last night I was listening to the Gorecki 3rd symphony that could make the devil cry. I got your book but it's rough sledding for me... I'll keep at it.