The official generation requirements for Gen 4 would put the Zeong as a Gen 4 MS, which is the exact kind of BS I can imagine being debated by MS historians in universe.
You would also get a bunch of people insisting that it is still Gen1 since the gen two and later technologies hadn't been created/applied yet. And at least one person insisting somehow it was a mobile armor.
Was watching video i d like to invest you have on the mobile suits days of Jews on how they're trying to abase what gen the suits are I know I'm from the US but what I know about military spiders the generation class of certain Fighters are based on what year what years are there being built and what test does they had its time cuz if I'm get my math right on when it comes to u.s. Naval carrier Fighters one of my favorites would be the F-4 Phantom which in its lifespan is considered a third generation fighter or nastase interceptor and my other favorite aircraft which has now been discontinued for quite a few years now F-14 Tomcat which is also an Interceptor which is considered a Gen 4 along with the f-15s 15 and 18 like I said I love this mess you have on the mobile suits but it is hard the way you're playing at the fair out which jenich do is if you base it on real life machines it has to be what year did Mermaid what technology was available at that point time defining Point what gender be part of
It’s the universal century of course. Over the most amount of time it has acquired the most intricate and well-developed actual detailed universe while the others are great and pay constant homage’s to the original line. Brilliant organizing of beloved stories and the lore grown and sown throughout.
Point of note. The 360 degree view is the panoramic cockpit, first used on the RX-78NT-1 Gundam "Alex". The linear seat came later and was a seat mounted on a bar in the panoramic cockpit that reduced whiplash and shock to the pilot. They are different technologies, though the latter was developed for use in the former.
As for the G-Savior. Crossbone Gundam Dust explained decline of technology after the Zanscare War causing Mobile Suit manufacturers to use simpler generators which hampers the use of beam weaponries resulting in people to just build them bigger to compensate for it. tl;dr G-Savior is more like an advanced 2nd gen machine due to the technological decline of the Era.
Okay, something i learned by being a military weapons enthusiast is that you don't include prototypes on the "generation list" simply because they will act as bridge to build the next generation. Instead, you brand them as "technological demonstrators" i.e. USA's f-23 black widow and russia's Firkin. So, if we're going to apply this on MS's its gonna look like this: 1st gen: inception of MS tech on all both sides i.e. Zakus, doms, gms and guncannons. Period is OYW - early gryps war. 2nd gen: equipment interchangeablity, i.e. zaku III, gm III, and pretty much any MS that can be stripped with equipment and changed on-spot. (Thanks a lot, Hazel!!) This has the longest running period ranging from gryps war to pre-phase II MS all thanks to their versatility, ease of maintenance and pricetag. 3rd generation: limited atmospheric flight/ transformation capability aka "fruits of zeta research". Pretty much self explanatory. Main examples are ReZel, Zeta C1 and hambrabi. 4th generation: direct neural control system implementation i.e. psycommu and its variants. MS examples are doven wolf and mass production qubeley. This has the shortest period since newtypes are hard to come by, and other systems to match them like ALICE system were not implemented on mass production suits. The pricetag were obviously hated by the top brass. 5th generation: minateurized MS aka phase II MS. All available tech clumped together on a small package. Examples are denan zon and jamesgun. Actually it's difficult to tell if the penelope and xi gundam were 5th generation MS as there are no records of mass production versions of their tech being implemented nor an attempt to mass produce them. Hopefully Anaheim Electronics will came up with something.
The PS4/PS5 game Gundam Battle Operation 2 makes a lot of references to MS generations in its description for MS. One that I noticed today seems pretty helpful to the discussion as its a Bandai game. The description for the Marasai states "it boasts every feature of a second-generation Mobile Suit: cockpit with a linear seat and panoramic monitor, a loadout of beam weaponry, a movable frame, and Gundarium Alloy armor." This seems to suggest that generations are classified on an interpretable checklist of features rather than on one standout. This solve the conundrum of the Rick Dias not having movable frame but still being generation 2, the rules are a suggestion rather than a concrete classifier.
I think you're always going to have a ".5" suit, or a transition suit between generations. I have that in my tactical designs all the time. I make a Gen 1 of something, then a Gen 1.5 is when I apply some new ideas to the Gen 1. But when I design a new one from with those experimental elements fully fleshed out, that is the Gen 2. So the suits you're not sure about where to place it...that's a ".5" or transitional suit.
On that regard, the GP series could be literally the 1.5 Generation, because it's tech is used on most of the 2 gen MS like the MKII and Rick Diaz. Also, i think the S-Gundam, EX-S Gundam and MK V could perfectly be 3.5 Gen because of Pseudo New Type Weapons and generator output, specially as the MK V was used as base to deveop the Doven Wolf
The thing would do here is look at this the way we do fighters in so far as we have Block Upgrade programs to bring certain technologies that CAN be upgraded to more modern standards. It doesn't change the Generation of the Unit, but it modernizes it to be more competitive. For example, I would look at the upgraded One year War MS as Generation 1 still, even with Linear Seats, but they would be something like Block B or C for each MS model. I would also introduce the concept of .5 Generation upgrades. This would make something like the NT-1 a generation 1.5 MS (You could also make this claim for the Zeong being a Gen 1.5 MS), where it is very clearly an improvement over the RX-78-2, but isn't on par with something like the Rick Dias or Gundam Mk II Generational improvements are usually things that are baked into the Unit and can't really be used to upgrade older units, be it due to incompatabilities with older systems, and using this upgrade would require the older MS to be completely rebuilt from the ground up resulting in a wholly new MS. For the record, I would also say that the Rick Dias being 2nd generation would make it easy to claim the Hyaku Shiki is a generation 2.5 machine, and the Zeta could be a Gen 2.5 as well, given it has some older Tech but a lot of newer stuff in it as well. Generation 3 would be, in my mind, the arrival of the Psycommu and Quasi-Psycommu equipped MS's, kind of like how Stealth is pretty much your defining factor for 5th gen fighters (I know it's more complicated than that, but I'm trying to keep this simple). Your 4th generation, however, is the introduction of the Psycho-frame, making the Sazabi and Nu-Gundam the first 4th gen MS's, then it would follow that Unicorn and it's sister MS are all 4th Generation as well, possibly 4.5 Gen given the more extensive application of Psycho-frame and other technologies like the NT-D system. Then, as you state, the 5th gen would be the Minovosky Flight system equipped units like Penelope. I didn't get into the more expansive Block upgrade system obviously, but looking at your normal grunt MS, you can see where those would come into play just so they remain competitive to a degree. Just my 2 cents on this.
So having watched this, I believe it is safe to say that the "generation" designation of suits in Universal Century is just loose jargon around high points of the development of all mobile suit technology and not any concrete matter. And technically that means I'd like to develop a fifth generation Gelgoog Variant? Nice.
@@wasdwazd Kinda looks like Gelgoog Jaeger with equipment modified from the Regelgu and Gelgoog Cannon, possibly with Incoms taken from the Döven Wolf, but definitely stealing flight tech from Xi. And maybe a few parts off the Gebera Tetra? The sheer size would be closer to Xi or a Zeong than the original Gelgoog Jaeger. I'll work the kinks out when I try drawing a mobile suit again. Should help me keep track.
Man, I knew the Jegan was in production for a long time but this really puts it into perspective. Zaku IIs were introduced mid OYW and obsolete by the end compared to the Gelgoog. We see the Jegan from 0090 to 0123. So from Second(ish) generation in Char's Counterattack all the way to Sixth(?) Generation with F91 where they were finally completely outclassed. I wonder if the Jegan is the mass producted mobile suit with the longest active use lifespan? (Clearly things like the Dom were used up until Unicorn, but they were known to be obsolete. The Jegans were still being produced in F91.) Here's my question: what mobile suit had the longest production run?
Actually the basic MS-06A/MS-06C Zaku II was introduced right before the start of the One Year War. You are thinking of the later Zaku II variants like the MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai or the MS-06F2 Zaku II F2 Type.
actually good: jegan, leo(kinda weird because wing plot armor make them look trash af but they actually pretty good) Trash: gundam age grunt that have participate a 100 year war with 0 kill. Like bruh.
My guess with the MS Generation thing is that its also a Classifications System rather than just a technological arms race. With units that have...Questionable Debates (Looking at you Re-GZ), I would honestly classify them as .5 Generation units, like its got the tech, but maybe not the armor or in reverse, a stopgate machine, etc. So if we go with this idea, you could make the Mk.II a 1.5 Generation machine, its the stop gate towards Gen 2 MS.
Some of the advanced models or upgraded variants of production MS that out perform the previous generation, but doesn't fit the exact definition of the next generation can be put into an "unofficial" X.5 generation. This is something we see in the last few decades with the designation of 4.5 generation fighters. These latest designs/variants of some 4th generation jet fighters incorporate the latest/next gen tech into their design. Some are 4th gen upgraded while other designs are wholly new 4.5 gen types. Then again this is just a simplified attempt to round up some of the outlier MS.
Agreed. I was thinking throughout the video 'Doesn't he know about x.5 designations?' but our man Kakarot is a mobile suit historian, not an aircraft historian, so it's understandable.
@@matohibiki Well, I do think there is some difficulty to define generations when they are introduced, because its difficult to define what features will warrant qualification towards a new generation. For once, F-35's supposed ability to multi-link in a network really makes it a completely different asset than the high-performance F-22. Maybe in hindsight the F-22 will be an outlier, an dead-end that is too expensive to get have equals or be maintained.. just like the Zumwalt-class destroyers where. Interesting enough, besides the new 'next best thing', there is also a more prominent focus to develop more conventional, easier to field in numbers, and more evolutionary programs like next USAF NGAD and the next multi-purpose USN ships will be FFG(X), which is basically an Americanized 'conventional' FREMM frigate. I think there is coming more appreciation that real wars means the ability to take real losses and be able to replenish them, cause past generation weapons are more than capable to do serious damage when deployed effectively.
@@Tuning3434 There's always the question of 'yeah, it's new, but is it a generational leap, or is it same gen, new toy?' I feel like a lot of discussions on generational transitions are a hindsight perspective thing, because I agree it's not something you can firmly say while looking forward, not knowing what's coming up. There's also, like you mentioned, the question of 'is this a generational leap, or a weird outlier?' and that one's super tricky to pin down without the benefit of looking at things in the past. Is something going to be a weird outlier, or does it start that way, then make a resurgence once it's realised that 'hey, that weird thing from before? turns out it's really good, if we tweak it a little, and slap it in these other new things'. Which is all sorts of a logistical headache on its own, isn't it?
Much like how Generation One machines came in many forms and design quirks, you can say that Generation 2 also came in in ' pieces' before it all came together in one package. I like to think that Second Generation machines started off with standard implementation of the 360 cockpit and linear seat. So the Alex I don't class as a Second Gen but more a 1.7 Gen. Third Generation is best distinguished by the rise of the VMS but I also think MS that are based from or influenced by them also count. So the Hyaku Shiki and Byarlant count. Fourth Generation is certainly all about how many high powered beam weapons/psycommu tech can be install on one Mobile Suit. The real issue about decides to what is considered next gen combat vessels is that different nations have different standards and there own way of building things. Even more so when you consider the vast distances separating many of the powers in UC. Post-OYW especially. Interesting fact I leaned after discovering the Anaheim Journal: the Gundam Development Project is considered the 'Missing Link' in mobile suit design/development evolution until AE released its existence in 0090.
In my opinion the Hiyaku Shiki is the end of 2nd Generation and would have been the first 3rd Generation if the Delta Gundam had gone forward as planned. With the 4th Generation I would say the main focus is on Number/Power of Weapons and the associated generators. The Nu Gundam isn't the ZZ, but it does have 6 Funnels each with their own generator. The Unicron then was developed specifically to counter Newtype weapons, it wasn't the next step it was simply a reaction.
Great info as always Kakarot, the OYW units being upgraded to standardized specs during the Gryps war really helped me out. I’m working on a fan fic and was thinking of doing this exact thing, good to know it’s actually true in universe. Here’s my question, how are Mobile suits controlled using the various controls in the cockpit? We know only what we are shown in the anime but how are they exactly operated? For example special limb movement like punches and kicks, melee combat etc.
11:26 the minovsky craft system is an anti-gravity system. its actually well articulated/visualized in the latest movie. while the minovsky flight system is a propulsion system. (of which both are used on some/most battleships. it was getting them down to mobile suit size that was the trick)
I alwais thought that the first generation was the OYW mobile suits, the 2th was the movable frame, the 3rth the variable frame, the 4th the psicoframe, the 5th were the built-in Minovsky Flight Unit sistem that alow atmosferic flight, and the 6th onward was the small mobile suits along the more powerfull generators like the F90, the 7th was the F91 with the VSBR, and the 8th with the Victory Gundam
The F90 is capable of using VSBR, it was just a add-on part that ended up being the test bed for the F91. But the bio computer on F91( which is a newtype enhancing program) is what would make it different, but SNRI made that secretly because the Federation still feared newtype machine. So SNRI probably didn't want to classify it as a generation unit to avoid suspicions. Which would also help the Crossbone Gundam avoid suspicions as well since they had to operate independently of any affiliation. So the Victory Gundam probably had a bio computer as well but it independently built by the league Militaire because Federation didn't want to involved with the conflict at first.
The G-Saviour machines seem more like 1st generation ms with a beam shield. Honestly, everything in G-Saviour seems more primitive than OYW equipment. It's honestly kind of weird
I like to think gen 4 is the adding of a lot of integrated weapons, and then gen 5 was originally psycho-frame, but since that technology was erased from history, minovski craft suits became the "new" gen5
That part hanging over the head of the RX-104ff's head always bothered me because every time I see it, my first thought is it can transform into a jet but it can't.
I personally wouldn't put prototype/test machines as a benchmark of a generation until retroactively classified as such, since they only exist to test tech to POTENTIALLY put in future mass production lines. Like real life jet generations, I believe some MS can be classified as in-between generations, or Genereration X+. For example the GM-II, it's almost literally just a OYW GM, updated with post-war tech, making it Generation 1+, then looking at the next generation, a Jegan is taking what defined Gen 2, general machines with better avionics, engines, armor and weapons, and updating it with tech that make Gen 3 (transforming) suits cutting edge: even better computers, reinforced frames, weapons and armor enhancements, making the Jegan and Geara Doga Gen 2+ suits (with much later Jegan models with under-the-hood upgrades being examples of Gen 2++) and so on. I think of Generations as what is used in mass production or limited production with tech that pushed the envelope of tech compared to the previous generations that it became a new category, and older models upgraded to keep pace are + models still of the older Gen, much like modern jets. Sorry for long post, but I am passionate about military culture and tech, this stuff fascinates me 😀.
Actually, the GM II can be both a Gen 1 and a Gen 2 machine, depending on which ones your talking about. The RGM-79R version is the upgraded original GM, and the RMS-179 is the freshly produced model. The latter would classify as a Gen 2 suit, with the panoramic cockpit qualification.
If I'm not mistaken what makes a true fifth generation mobile suit was that it was the first series of mobile suits equipped with the Minovsky Craft System, which allowed a spaceship or heavy ground vehicle to "fly"/hover on Earth. The Principality of Zeon was slow to make use of this principle and the only units equipped with Minovsky craft systems during the One Year War were the MAX-03 Adzam and the three prototype Apsalus mobile armours. However, the Earth Federation was quick to adopt the system on its Pegasus-class assault carriers. This allowed the Pegasus-class to enter and exit earth's atmosphere and to fly while inside the atmosphere. This system could not be miniaturized to fit on a mobile suit until after U.C.0100. The first MS equipping such a device is RX-104FF Penelope from Hathaway's Flash, which is comprised of the RX-104 Odysseus Gundam combined with its Fixed Flight support unit. RX-105 Ξ Gundam which appeared in the same series also equipped the device, however it is fully integrated into its structure. Thus making the RX-105 Ξ Gundam the true first fifth generation mobile suit. Eventually the Minovsky Craft System design would be overhauled and upgraded into the Minovsky Drive, the first of its kind being built into the ship Mother Vanguard of the Crossbone Vanguard as a system nicknamed the "Sail of Light". This very same drive system was than installed on the F99 Record Breaker. A new system called the Minovsky flight system was also a upgrade version of the Minovsky Craft system was installed on the Victory and Voctory 2 gundam. Credit to Gundams Technology Wiki for the information/etc I used when describing the Minovsky Systems.
Actually RIC DIAS also uses the moveable frame technology as well (just with a version of a designly relocated cockpit) becase lore-wise, I remeber heard one of the Gundam lore person mention that the AEUG decided to used the moveable frame on RIC DIAS after they caputre Gundam MK II for themselves form TITANS
While I am not entirely sure how it impacts the idea of classifying generations of mobile suits in the grand scale I believe that the adoption of replaceable E-caps might be one of the most significant changes between first and second generation mobile suits. Come to think of it then I am not entirely sure where the Barzam would fall in the first place.
E caps would probably have more impact on weapon generations than mpbile suit generations. Simply because gen 1 ms could use e-cap equipped weapons since they dont need the generator to power the weapon directly
@@EunosRacer There's still a required generator output for a MS to use a beam rifle. This has not changed with the advent of e-packs. What changed is that instead of switching out the entire rifle, the e-pack can be replaced like a magazine.
I took a peek at G-Saviour and that thing's cockpit went back to OYW style cockpit. That is an absolutely awfully terrifically and utterly stupendous idea.
I think G savior is actually downgrading back to Gen3/4 suits. I mean that happens in armored core lore that the tech gets downgraded (from 4A to V) so maybe the mobile suits tech of G savior time is also downgraded due to some untold reasons?
Gotta remember the stop-gap generation machines; the X.5 generation machines and etc. But I guess that's a can of worms not worth opening at this point.
Just some related comments from my Gundam and engineering loving brain: 1) Some MS had their prototypes developed in one an earlier generation, but ginalized in a later generation. At least, according to lore. I can't tell you if because of this, these MS are classified as their development generation's number, or their finalized generation's number. But it's interesting to think about how this would essentially blur that already blurry generational divide. 2) IRL, Phase 2 MS weren't divided into further generations, simply because the creators of the series probably didn't think of the idea until later. Maybe.... Otherwise, yes, we should have Phase 1-1 through Phase 1-5 and then Phase 2-1 through Phase 2-X. 3) If you pay real close attention to the generations, they're pretty much according to war, which is pretty much according to series. Though, multiple series do take place during certain wars, such as One Year War having (First) Gundam, 08MST, 0080, and 0083 (to an extent). So for the most part, it's OYW = Gen1, Z = Gen2 and leading into Gen3, ZZ = Gen3, CCA = Gen4, and Hathaway's Flash = Gen5. Of course, there's blurry lines here too due to some MS being produced between the wars, so their exact placement is weird. 3) G-Saviour... 🤦♂️ That whole movie was a mess. So much so that even Bandai treats it like the black sheep of the Gundam family. Nothing makes sense in it. It isn't lore friendly. IGNORE IT! (This comment mostly aimed at those who haven't seem the movie). 4) I'd have to consider a Gen0 of MS too. The "development generation." Basically, the whole process of experimentation and development that led up to a working MS. In the pre-Origin IRL times, these were the MS-01, MS-02, MS-03, and MS-04. The history was vague, stating that the MS were more like construction machines, rather than war machines. Then the MS units were further developed and eventually, the MS-04 (I think, or it was the actual earliest versions of the MS-05 Zaku I) was disguised as a construction machine for testing purposes, but was secretly being developed for war by the Zeon. Later in IRL, the Origin series came out, which further detailed this time period. MS-01 was the MASH, the most basic of MS that was designed to test basic movement and functionality. A proof of concept, if you will. It even still needed to be plugged in for power. Then the MS-02, or the... well... where IS the MS-02!? They skip over it, I think. Unless it's the later version of the MASH, which used a nuclear reactor instead of being plugged in. Then the MS-03 Waff. And finally, the MS-04 Bugu. Then there's the whole contract fight between the Zudah and the Zaku I. FINAL THOUGHT: I'm a huge fan of the UC Gundam, but let's be honest, some of the lore is fuzzy, and there's a TON of lore now. I'm bound to be wrong on some stuff, if not all of it. But still... interesting to think about it!
6:00 I see what you're saying. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence but I must point out that the Rick Diaz was already an established machine in production based on existing technology and the Gundam Mark 2 was a testbed specifically designed to test the viability of the variable geometry movable frame technology. That being said I find it highly unlikely that the Rick Diaz would have that technology since it hasn't even been tested yet. Well that's my two cents
Very interesting topic, but there are a few errors here. The defunct Library of Londenion (still accessible via wayback machine), has the info you are looking for, originally published in the Entertainment Bible 2 back in 1989. The short version is: 2nd Generation MS need to fulfill 4 criteria: 1- Have a linear seat 2- Have a panoramic cockpit 3- Use beam weapons as standard equipment 4- Have a movable frame Within the fanbase, some consider Generation 1.5 those machines that fulfill some, but not all, of this criteria, like the Gundam Mk II. The Rick Dias is an odd case, because some sources say it doesn't have a movable frame, but rather something called a movable block construction, that the Gaza C also uses and which seems to be considered an early type of movable frame. 3rd gen machines are simply Transformable MS (TMS), not to be confused with transformable MAs (TMA), which appeared earlier. The Hyaku Shiki doesn't qualify, simply because it's not a TMS, even if it was based on one. 4th generation machines are NT "only" MS which need to have: -High output generators -High Mega Cannon armament -Stable Psycommu/Quasi Psycommu system Naturally the main cavebeat here is that the quasi-psycommu actually allows non-NT to perform the all range attacks of newtypes, so the Doven Wolf actually qualifies as a 4th gen machine. The other 2 common mentioned examples are the ZZ Gundam and the Geymalk, the later which has the "weakest" main beam weapon among these 3 units, with a power rating of 30.5 MW. Similarly to the gen 1.5 MS, the Zeta Gundam, Qubeley and the O are sometimes called 3.5 gen machines among fans, since they lack the generator output & firepower of a 4th gen MS, but have a NT related system and high performance. Despite its size and firepower, the Queen Mantha seems to belong to this 3.5 tier, given that its "strongest" beam weapons only have a power rating of 8.6 MW.
Questions: 1. Gundam Alex is a prototype with first ever panoramic cockpit and 2. The gundam development project in 0083 is considered as 'missing link' so are they secretly the 'lost generation' ?
With the size and complexity of the Xi and Penelope, it'd be a nightmare fixing either of those machines. It kind of bumbs me out that neither see much action.
I think it's easier if you include the .5 generation inside just like how fighter jets did it. Gen 5 jets have the requirements to have a stealth capabilities and thrust vectoring (F-35, F-22, PAK-FA) while Gen 4.5 is basically an upgraded Gen 4 with modern avionics (F-15EX is an F-15 upgraded with better avionics systems and so on) or even a completely brand new jets (Rafale & Eurofighter)
Semi unrelated. Rx-0 is still my favorite ms to date. I love its clean, classic lines. It's very much like a resto mod car. Take something with older styling and modernize the under pinning. Obviously there's more to unicorn than that, but that's the aesthetic I get.
Technology is often hard to identify and categorize because it is ever evolving and changing, and considering that technology in the Gundam universe is so advanced and continues to advance with new technology that sometimes it makes certain technologies obsolete and that we can’t identify much about it unless it is stated.
So why didn't we see any gelgoog type in the delaz fleet in the 083 anime just zakus and Rick doms and dra-Cs and only the chima fleet. Given that he was given that he was gihren's right hand devote man you think he would have a decent amount .
Maybe they were too hard to maintain for 4 years, you'd be surprised at how many spare parts aircraft go through. I imagine MS like Gelgoog didn't have as readily available spare parts as the mass produced Zakus and Doms
@@My_name_is_A2 a good point and with the abundance of Zaku and dom wrecks after the war I guess it's easier fir the assembly line in the rose of thron to work with
During world War II, we saw numerous examples of military units who refused to get new tanks or upgraded cannons, because the old ones they had worked just fine and the units were afraid that if they started fielding new equipment they may have unforeseen problems with the new equipment. There are numerous documented instances of American armored units refusing to upgrade their M4 Sherman's from the 75 mm gun to the objectively better 76 mm gun. Whenever I see instances in fiction of groups fielding outdated equipment for seemingly no reason, I assume it's the matter of the pilots preferring their tried and true machines over the delicate newfangled things.
@@My_name_is_A2 This makes a lot of sense to me. Cima's fleet, being both pirates and having the secret backing from within the Federation/Anaheim, would have an easier time maintaining such units. That also helps explain the strong distrust from the other Zeon remnants. Not only do they have the stigma of being the ones to deploy the G3 poison gas, but this one fleet not allowed on Axis still has well maintained Gelgoogs.
I wish Bandai would make some distinguishing mechanical features between MS generations in the Gunpla models. It would be cool to build a couple different generations and see the tech change between suits.
2:36 So it's basically the same schtick as the original Transformers show. It didn't get the Generation 1 name until the Generation 2 line of repaint toys came out. Keeping with the TF analogy; the Gen 6/Phase 2 MS being smaller due to better tech and fuel efficiency; is a lot like the Beast Era of the G1 continuity. Wherein the Cybertronians generally agreed to undergo a universal downsizing as there was an Energon crisis. So smaller, more fuel-efficient bodies that could refuel by eating organic matter via synthetic animal alternate forms, were much more favourable.
one thing i think about about gen 1 MS are the existence of dedicated earth surface only MS like the Gouf, Dom, Fed & Zeon "Ground type" MS, is that dual environment MS where too expensive or heavy or making MS that specializes in one environment at the time was more economical and afterwards by MS development at Gen 2 looks like MS are either dual purpose or space only with only a few Ground use oddities developed afterwards like the Asshimar. also maybe Aquatic use MS as a whole with the lack of any real development after the OYW, but aquatic MS could be considered their own thing entirely.
The Nu Gundam doesn't have a built-in high mega particle cannon but has its handheld beam rifle that can switch between a high-mega particle cannon-esque firepower or as a beam machine gun. Pairing up with the Newtype Fin Funnels, the Nu Gundam can be technically called a 4th Gen MS
The Saviour series MS actually look pretty cool. I feel like what defines them is high speed maneuverability and easily changable modular systems. It's possible in my headcanon at least, that the reason they are bigger is because manufacturers are going for quality over quantity, prefering a fewer amount of larger MS that can take more hits vs a swarm of smaller ones that get blasted. The RGM-196 Freedom is also in a case where it's actually still smaller than a GM or Jegan, just not as miniaturized as the James Gun or Javelin were. Despite its performance in the show, you gotta keep in mind those were ones kept in storage and not maintained well, likely leading to their usual beam weaponry being unusable. I'm pretty sure the 196 possibly had a beam shield, sword, and rifle like its previous generations. As for why the CMS-03 Bugus are only seen with machine guns in the movie and regular shields, it is stated on the gundam wiki that they can use beam weapons just fine, so its possibly that the food shortages also lead to energy shortages. So either 2 things then, is that they didn't want to waste the energy by giving the CMS-03 Bugu, an outdated machine at its time, beam weapons just as well since they had the MW-Rai for real combat. Its also possible we only see them with Machine guns because they weren't actually seen fighting in space just in the settlments. So they were likely just being used to attack targets that lacked capability to retaliate. We also know all the saviour series has just as advanced equipment as previous generations. And the G3-Saviour and J-Saviours have a specially developed double jointed frame for more diverse movement and maneuverability. It's also possible that with the Bugu, the film makers just wanted to recreate that feel the Zakus had when they first dropped into the colony all the way back in UC 0079.
I've overthought G-Saviour A LOT. Because I think bad movie aside, it had a decent video game, and the time period in the UC and the mobile suit designs are actually rather interesting. The Earth Federation was bound to collapse eventually, and it logically makes sense that certain groups would attempt to fill the role, and fail. UC 0224 also feels very space centric, making ya wonder what kind of condition the Earth is in now, and that perhaps Earthnoids are more oppressed than Spacenoids now.
I love your videos. I got 2 questions. 1) if the hades system and the exam system fought, who would win 2) could you talk about the universe where the rx-78-2 was stolen by zeon and would pilot it. (I never seen much about it)
Question of the Week, is there information about the state of space exploration Gundam Universes? I mean, Mobile Suits lurking in deep space, outer colonies in the solar system, people in other planets.... Aliens?
With G-Savior, it's best to have a general _regression_ back to Phase 1 machines due to the fact that, by Victory Gundam, the Federation was basically done for as it basically killed itself. When you've got situation as _fracked_ as UC Gundam during the Victory era... yeah.
Haven't watched one of your videos in forever now that there's no lore videos but this one was good reminded me of the old days. See ya around ole pal....... ....... ..... ... .. .
I'd categorise generations by the type of conflict they are intended to fight. Generation 1: All 1 year one models except advanced prototypes possessing features associated with later generations. Generation 1.5: Advanced one off prototypes for technologies that would be mass adopted by later generations (i.e. Linear Seats, psycommu; ex: NT1, MSN-01, MSN-02, GP03S) Generation 2: Grypps War. Mass adoption of linear seats, field replaceable E-packs, improved avionics extending sensor range(at least 8800m, usually 10000m or more) Generation 3: Transformable SUITs Generation 4: 'NewType warfare'. Psycommu, quasi-psycommu, psycho-frame, psycho-control, etc. Bio-sensor if you squint (thus including Z, ZZ and D+) Generation 5: Minovsky Craft System Generation 6: Miniaturised SUITs. Generation 7: Minovsky Flight system. Beam rotor if you squint. G-Saviour would be in a generation of its own but not Gen 8. It's a technological throwback. The cockpits are back to OYW era CRTs. They have beam shields, but not miniaturised reactors. If I were forced to categorise it, it would be... Generation 1. They're essentially starting the MS arms race all over again.
You mentioned the designation for MS in the OYW but how do you explain the GM III? Since supposedly it came out during just before the Gryps war, yet only appeared in the the first Neo Zeon War. Same could be said for the RX-75 and RX-77 series.
I always consider gen 1 ms to be from the oyw-0083 and gen 2 started in 0084-0088 and gen 3 started in 0088-0090 and gen 4 0091-0100 and gen 5 to be everything beyond 0101
It seems the generation tag is more focus on the technology applied to mobile suit/armor than the raw overpowered thing. Could be Industrial point of view. I think the "phase" is really good to describe mobile suit/armor after the 5th generation, because the size of warfare turn drastically after f91 series, different needs had been develope at that time.
The Mk.II would be what's known as a "1.5" meaning it has features used in next-gen machines but is itself, either an upgraded older generation machine or built to the standards of an older generation machine. The Mk.II is remarked on not being much of an upgrade over the RX-78 in the show.
I Think Gen 3 Mobile Suits aren't just about the Transformations they could also be the improvement of AMBAC Controls and their ability to adapt in Earth and Space Mobile Suits like the Dijeh, Hyakushiki and Nemo IIs had specialized wing binders that would help with the Mobile Suit respond and move better in Space but they lack the long lasting atmospheric flight of Generation 5 Mobile Suits
Hi Kakarot, great video, thanks for the great quality content. This raised a doubt in my mind, what generation is the ZGMF-X10A and its later variation the ZGMF-X20A?
The generation system shown here only applies to Universal Century continuity. The SEED series are part of the Cosmic Era continuity, and would have it's own generation system due to the drastic technological differences.
I think a cool question to ask would be what if Zaft failed to capture any of the G-weapons or only succeed in stealing one of them? How would the Archangel try to use them? Like for example would Kira help some of the crew by creating the natural compatible os or like having Mu use the Aegis Gundam in MA mode to sortie along with kira.
Amazing! I tried to do this in 2020 but got caught in the Gen 3/4/5 definitions. Can you do a history of the Gundam Mk. IV/V/Doven Wolf/Silver Bullet series?
Goofy jokes aside, I think the generation system is more to do with conflict periods. Like, the reason the Xi and the Penelope were mentioned specifically by their generation is because remnants and opposition forces were still using older machines from previous wars. Gen 1 would be the One Year War, Gen 2 would be the Delaz conflict right up to the very beginning of the Grips conflict, Gen 3 would be the Grips conflict onwards through the Neo Zeon war, Gen 4 would encompass the suits of Char's Counterattack, and Gen 5 would encompass the top-of-the-line suits of Hathaway's era. Unicorn's suits wouldn't fit in there, even being just about 10 years prior to that, but that's largely because the Unicorn's main new suits were either major off-the-cuff prototypes like the NTD machines that were likely HEAVILY classified due to their reality-bending technical details, or older machines that had been refit in "new" ways. Either that or they were just slotted in with Gen 4 suits due to the Axis Shock event and their similarities to what happened there.
First mobile suits - better structure and armor - transformable - the power of god - flying in atmosphere - small - small and flying in atmosphere - whatever g savior is - nano machines son? (turn a did wipe out UC century in the end) and they really turned things down a notch after gen 4
8:30 I'm not sure how reliable or accurate it is, but according to the Hyaku Shiki's description in Gundam Battle Operation 2 it is labled as a second generation mobile suit. Again, I'm not entirely sure if there are sources outside the game that confirm or deny this, but maybe it gives us some sort of clue as to which generation it belongs in. (Potential question of the week): I don't know if you may of covered this in another video, but what do you think would've happened if Zeon decided to produce the Gouf more over the Dom? Would it have changed the OYW in any way, and what variants do you think we would've seen if production continued past the OYW?
I ussually attribute mechanical generations to the time period they were developed, kinda like human generations. Example, OYW Era machines are Gen 1 units. MS developed around the Delaz Conflict and the First Neo Zeon War are Gen 2 machines. Char's Counterattack got Gen 3. And I guess Unicorn and Narrative are 4th Gen MS.
Yeah, probably for the best not to talk about G-Saviour. Claims to take place in the years past Victory, has a grunt mech based specifically on the original RGM-79 GM and no other machine.
Sometimes you go back and produce a Gen 0.5, like the new F15EX would be a Gen 3.5, by upgrading the avionics, but that doesn’t change the major differences, which are usually based on leaps in applied scientific development. I don’t consider a monitor change to be a generational leap, but a radar or targeting system might signify a different level of technology. Gen I, Everything up to RX-78 Gen 1.5 RX-78, Alex, GP Series, MKII, Shiki, Zeong and other technology demonstrators for Psycommu and Exam. Later suits like the Jegan and the Jesta aren’t really any different technology-wise, but have higher performance than some of the next generation. Gen II Zeta, Delta, Sentinel, and other transformable mobile suits with Biosensors and capable of atmospheric reentry. Gen II ends when there is no mass production possible. Gen III, ReGz, Jagd Doga, Sazabi, Nu Gundam, introduction of limited psycho frame Gen III.5, Unicorn, Neo Zeong, Full Psychoframe plus limiter, plus NTD, Psychowave, Psychoframe gets banned. Gen IV, Penelope Minovsky flight system Gen V, F90, Micro reactors, ultra lightweight materials. Gen VI probably something here. Gen VII, Turn A, the height of mobile suit development, and the end of mobile suit development. All the way up through Gen V, Gen I.5 suits are still refitted with modern technology. They aren’t that great, mainly because their frame isn’t 100% compatible with the upgradesz
What mobile suit gundam thunderbolt alternate take on an existing MS in the story do you like? I would also like to hear your thoughts on the Bull-G the gundam type created from the GM Cannon II thunderbolt version.
There are 3 units of the Unicorn Unicorn 01 Unicorn 02 Banshee Unicorn 03 Phenex Both the Unicorn 01 and 02 can use the green psycho frame and in theory, they çan both use the Full armor weapons, but the Banshee was upgraded to the Banshee Norn instead to fight against the FA Unicorn. All of the Perfectibility versions were based on concepts for the FA Unicorn, as well as experimenting with the concept of a single Unicorn gundam that encompasses all previous versions on the Unicorn
Well unit 1 is essentially the basic template of the RX0 line , unit 2 was visually the same in black but due to damage during its encounter with the rebawoo it's face, horn and upper chest were damaged then replaced with new parts to give it its own appearance other than that it's equipment with the smart beam gun and vibration nails that can either crush or shred mobile suits , the phenex is on the simular case eith the DE shields on its back give it more thrust, psycho frame and double as funnels so it's more or less a high mobility version of unit 1
I feel like classifying the generations after performance and combat doctrine makes a lot more sense than just a binary "does it have x or y feature", like you said with the 4th Gen, probably an effect more so than the cause, although if it has to be pinned to individual elements, your categorization is probably as good as it's gonna get; something built in the UC 120s won't be a first or second gen MS anymore, even if it on paper might not fulfill the criteria for anything higher. As for GS; there's some interesting arguments to be made here, especially when looking at the tech in the video game, or contrasting it to Gaia Gear -I know they're not canon to each other, but shush- . Perhaps material for a future followup on the very tail end of UC; something of a technology retrospective might be pretty cool to see, as kind of a zoomed out look on which trends started and ended where, and what suits and events might have caused the shift to and from technologies
Thanks a bunch Kakarot!! I love your question of the week content! I was just curious, are you going to continue your discussion about the time you worked at the Gundam Cafe anytime soon? I found your first video on it really interesting and would love to hear more!! I was hoping to get to Japan and by extension, the Cafe, before it closed, but alas, the state of the world over the past few years set me back and I am lucky to even be going to Europe this year! Please let me know if you are doing another video on your time there soon!
a question i'd like you to address is the confusing change in federation's ship's hull registry: supposedly after the OYW mobile suit assault crafts would see their registry changed from scv/scva to msc (i.e. the White Base was retroactively changed from scv-70 to msc-02). however the Nahel Argama uses the scva prefix whereas the older Albion uses the msc prefix. Is it that perhaps the msc regitry was used only by the pegasus class assault carriers? Bonus question if you can: is it known what the hull registry for the Ra Cailum is?
Easiest to notice as only Feeration 1st generation units EVER USED that cockpit that doubled as an escape craft (They became widely used on TEST units for new MS tech in testing phases for the Federation EXACTLY because the cockpit and its data storage could then be easily recovered/salvaged if the test unit ever suffered a catastrophic failure or incident that caused the test MS to be destroyed by having the test pilot bail out with it back to the base/mothership)
Can you explain the difference between monocoque and semi monocoque frames? It seems to be based on aircraft frames but you can't really apply the same logic to mobile suits
out of curiosity, what generation would you consider the man-machines from the Gaia Gear novel? Asking as that takes place in the late UC but before G-Saviour.
I was curious why you were so uneasy about G-Saviour, but one look at the wiki and yeah, I immediately understand, the first words that jumped out to me were 'Live Action' and 'Illuminati' closely followed by 'CONSENT' 'Gaea' and '1999'
Ok, this is a long one, but bear with me. I think there also needs to be half-gen units, that inroduce future parts of the technology, but arent there all the way. I do remember seeing somewhere that the Gamma Gundam, the prototype of the Rick Dias, had a prototype inner frame, so the technology was still incomplete, but the machine's performance was more than enough to have it put into production as the AEUGs flagship machine at the beginning of the Grypse war, before the development of the more than likely significantly cheaper Nemo which had the completed inner frame technology gained from the Gundam Mk. II. So, the Rick Dias is a 1.5 gen, Mk. II is a 2nd gen, with the impementation of the inned frame being the hallmark for 2nd Generation machines, not the Gundarium Gamma, which was where the Gamma Gundam got its name from. Funnily enough, Axis were the ones that made the Gamma Gundam, not the Federation, Anaheim, or the Titans. Char was the one that decided against it being called a gundam, because of all the ex-zeon personnel involved with the AEUG. Further on, the Hyaku Shiki, a machine originally intended as the transformable Delta Gundam but it's frame kept breaking in simulations, making the Delta a failed 3rd gen, but was built as the Hyaku Shiki as a 2.5 gen, since it did incorporate the movable frame and advanced technologies inherent with a transformable mobile suit, but without the transformation mechanism itself. Gen 3 units would be the transformable units with the advanced technologies necissary to make them function like the Zeta, Double Zeta, Zeta Plus, and the Methuss, with the Gaza-C and D being 2.5 gens or even 2.25 Gens, since their transformable frames were incomplete technologically and prone to ripping themselves apart if transformed one time too many, much like the Delta, along with their performance being at around the level of mass production 2nd Gen units of the time. Gen 4 would be primarily Psychoframe-equipped units, so the Nu, Sazabi, Sinanju, Unicorn, and the Moon/ Psycho Gundam mk. IV, with units like the Qubeley and the Varguil being a 3.5 gen, since they do have movable frame, semi-transformation parts like the Qubeley's shoulder units or the movable leg thrusters of the Varguil, but were primarily focused around the development of psycommu weapons using the miniaturized psycommu system built for standard sized mobile suits of the day, without the completed psychoframe technology that was the basis for the Gen 4 machines Finally, you have Generation 5, which were units equipped with the Minovsky Flight system, on top of the technologies from the previous generations, such as the psycho-wave controlled funnel weapons, namely the psycho missiles, and transformable frames (notably the penelope when it goes into cruising mode). So, by those definitions, most mass production mobile suits from later UC, such as the Geara Doga, Geara Zulu, Jegan, and Jesta would all be very refined 2nd Gen machines, since this generation's designs and designations seem to be the ideal one for mass production units, with the likes of the ReZel, Assimar, Anksha, and the Bawoo being 3rd Gen machines due to their transformation capabilities, even though the Asshimar lacks the movable frame. Not sure about the Anksha, but it does share a number of parts with the ReZel and the Jegan, so it would not surprise me if it had at least a partial movable frame. Then finally, after this, would be the generations of miniaturized mobile suits, which is a whole other mess.
its real funny how most mobile suit becomes obsolete after just 2 or 3 years, after its put out into the field! and others last for decades, due fact their more pratical in terms of use.
I remember them saying that the Xi and the Penelope was the first that can perform independent flight which had me thinking, does that mean that the transformable MS like from the Zeta era (Zeta, Gaplant, Ashimar etc.) is not considered an MS that can perform independent flight? What about the Byarlant as well as the Gouf Flight type?
Would that make the ZZ a generation 3 or 4? I would think 4, because despite the lack of newtype features, it has one of the most powerful generators for a mobile suit and devastatingly powerful high mega cannon. Edit: I take that back. It had a bio-sensor, developed by Anaheim Electronics. It was a kind of proto-psycommu system.
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The official generation requirements for Gen 4 would put the Zeong as a Gen 4 MS, which is the exact kind of BS I can imagine being debated by MS historians in universe.
"Zeong was ahead of its time" for fire power, maybe, but the maneuverability difference would be the death of you.
It would also make the Elmeth 4th gen no?
@@mistertaz94 I'm no sure if this system applies to mobile armors.
You would also get a bunch of people insisting that it is still Gen1 since the gen two and later technologies hadn't been created/applied yet. And at least one person insisting somehow it was a mobile armor.
4th gen MSes would simply be called miniturized MAs
I do love these little tidbits of worldbuilding. Adding a "generations" adds a nice touch into the progression of a universe.
Was watching video i d like to invest you have on the mobile suits days of Jews on how they're trying to abase what gen the suits are I know I'm from the US but what I know about military spiders the generation class of certain Fighters are based on what year what years are there being built and what test does they had its time cuz if I'm get my math right on when it comes to u.s. Naval carrier Fighters one of my favorites would be the F-4 Phantom which in its lifespan is considered a third generation fighter or nastase interceptor and my other favorite aircraft which has now been discontinued for quite a few years now F-14 Tomcat which is also an Interceptor which is considered a Gen 4 along with the f-15s 15 and 18 like I said I love this mess you have on the mobile suits but it is hard the way you're playing at the fair out which jenich do is if you base it on real life machines it has to be what year did Mermaid what technology was available at that point time defining Point what gender be part of
It’s the universal century of course. Over the most amount of time it has acquired the most intricate and well-developed actual detailed universe while the others are great and pay constant homage’s to the original line. Brilliant organizing of beloved stories and the lore grown and sown throughout.
Nice
Point of note. The 360 degree view is the panoramic cockpit, first used on the RX-78NT-1 Gundam "Alex". The linear seat came later and was a seat mounted on a bar in the panoramic cockpit that reduced whiplash and shock to the pilot. They are different technologies, though the latter was developed for use in the former.
The Alex already had the Linear Seat. The Gundam Wiki and MAHQ say it has the linear seat, and the lineart supports them.
As for the G-Savior. Crossbone Gundam Dust explained decline of technology after the Zanscare War causing Mobile Suit manufacturers to use simpler generators which hampers the use of beam weaponries resulting in people to just build them bigger to compensate for it.
tl;dr G-Savior is more like an advanced 2nd gen machine due to the technological decline of the Era.
wait, g-savior canon?
Okay, something i learned by being a military weapons enthusiast is that you don't include prototypes on the "generation list" simply because they will act as bridge to build the next generation. Instead, you brand them as "technological demonstrators" i.e. USA's f-23 black widow and russia's Firkin.
So, if we're going to apply this on MS's its gonna look like this:
1st gen: inception of MS tech on all both sides i.e. Zakus, doms, gms and guncannons. Period is OYW - early gryps war.
2nd gen: equipment interchangeablity, i.e. zaku III, gm III, and pretty much any MS that can be stripped with equipment and changed on-spot. (Thanks a lot, Hazel!!) This has the longest running period ranging from gryps war to pre-phase II MS all thanks to their versatility, ease of maintenance and pricetag.
3rd generation: limited atmospheric flight/ transformation capability aka "fruits of zeta research". Pretty much self explanatory. Main examples are ReZel, Zeta C1 and hambrabi.
4th generation: direct neural control system implementation i.e. psycommu and its variants. MS examples are doven wolf and mass production qubeley. This has the shortest period since newtypes are hard to come by, and other systems to match them like ALICE system were not implemented on mass production suits. The pricetag were obviously hated by the top brass.
5th generation: minateurized MS aka phase II MS. All available tech clumped together on a small package. Examples are denan zon and jamesgun.
Actually it's difficult to tell if the penelope and xi gundam were 5th generation MS as there are no records of mass production versions of their tech being implemented nor an attempt to mass produce them. Hopefully Anaheim Electronics will came up with something.
The PS4/PS5 game Gundam Battle Operation 2 makes a lot of references to MS generations in its description for MS. One that I noticed today seems pretty helpful to the discussion as its a Bandai game. The description for the Marasai states "it boasts every feature of a second-generation Mobile Suit: cockpit with a linear seat and panoramic monitor, a loadout of beam weaponry, a movable frame, and Gundarium Alloy armor." This seems to suggest that generations are classified on an interpretable checklist of features rather than on one standout. This solve the conundrum of the Rick Dias not having movable frame but still being generation 2, the rules are a suggestion rather than a concrete classifier.
Fourth generation, defined by powerful generators to power onboard mega particle cannons. I sure love the Zock
I think you're always going to have a ".5" suit, or a transition suit between generations. I have that in my tactical designs all the time. I make a Gen 1 of something, then a Gen 1.5 is when I apply some new ideas to the Gen 1. But when I design a new one from with those experimental elements fully fleshed out, that is the Gen 2. So the suits you're not sure about where to place it...that's a ".5" or transitional suit.
Or have it it like Macross Variable Fighter generations, which has the .5 units sporting tech from a later generation fighter design.
The Alex certainly fits that .5 designation, it's got some pretty advanced stuff like the 360 view cockpit.
On that regard, the GP series could be literally the 1.5 Generation, because it's tech is used on most of the 2 gen MS like the MKII and Rick Diaz.
Also, i think the S-Gundam, EX-S Gundam and MK V could perfectly be 3.5 Gen because of Pseudo New Type Weapons and generator output, specially as the MK V was used as base to deveop the Doven Wolf
What I absolutely love about gundam is how it shows the progression of technology because it just makes the whole universe feel more alive.
The thing would do here is look at this the way we do fighters in so far as we have Block Upgrade programs to bring certain technologies that CAN be upgraded to more modern standards.
It doesn't change the Generation of the Unit, but it modernizes it to be more competitive.
For example, I would look at the upgraded One year War MS as Generation 1 still, even with Linear Seats, but they would be something like Block B or C for each MS model.
I would also introduce the concept of .5 Generation upgrades.
This would make something like the NT-1 a generation 1.5 MS (You could also make this claim for the Zeong being a Gen 1.5 MS), where it is very clearly an improvement over the RX-78-2, but isn't on par with something like the Rick Dias or Gundam Mk II
Generational improvements are usually things that are baked into the Unit and can't really be used to upgrade older units, be it due to incompatabilities with older systems, and using this upgrade would require the older MS to be completely rebuilt from the ground up resulting in a wholly new MS.
For the record, I would also say that the Rick Dias being 2nd generation would make it easy to claim the Hyaku Shiki is a generation 2.5 machine, and the Zeta could be a Gen 2.5 as well, given it has some older Tech but a lot of newer stuff in it as well. Generation 3 would be, in my mind, the arrival of the Psycommu and Quasi-Psycommu equipped MS's, kind of like how Stealth is pretty much your defining factor for 5th gen fighters (I know it's more complicated than that, but I'm trying to keep this simple).
Your 4th generation, however, is the introduction of the Psycho-frame, making the Sazabi and Nu-Gundam the first 4th gen MS's, then it would follow that Unicorn and it's sister MS are all 4th Generation as well, possibly 4.5 Gen given the more extensive application of Psycho-frame and other technologies like the NT-D system.
Then, as you state, the 5th gen would be the Minovosky Flight system equipped units like Penelope.
I didn't get into the more expansive Block upgrade system obviously, but looking at your normal grunt MS, you can see where those would come into play just so they remain competitive to a degree.
Just my 2 cents on this.
So having watched this, I believe it is safe to say that the "generation" designation of suits in Universal Century is just loose jargon around high points of the development of all mobile suit technology and not any concrete matter.
And technically that means I'd like to develop a fifth generation Gelgoog Variant? Nice.
I'm curious about your fifth generation Gelgoog. Please elaborate.
@@wasdwazd
Kinda looks like Gelgoog Jaeger with equipment modified from the Regelgu and Gelgoog Cannon, possibly with Incoms taken from the Döven Wolf, but definitely stealing flight tech from Xi. And maybe a few parts off the Gebera Tetra? The sheer size would be closer to Xi or a Zeong than the original Gelgoog Jaeger.
I'll work the kinks out when I try drawing a mobile suit again. Should help me keep track.
Man, I knew the Jegan was in production for a long time but this really puts it into perspective. Zaku IIs were introduced mid OYW and obsolete by the end compared to the Gelgoog. We see the Jegan from 0090 to 0123. So from Second(ish) generation in Char's Counterattack all the way to Sixth(?) Generation with F91 where they were finally completely outclassed.
I wonder if the Jegan is the mass producted mobile suit with the longest active use lifespan? (Clearly things like the Dom were used up until Unicorn, but they were known to be obsolete. The Jegans were still being produced in F91.)
Here's my question: what mobile suit had the longest production run?
In terms if just production or actual effectivity?
Either the jegan or the hardy/James gun
Actually the basic MS-06A/MS-06C Zaku II was introduced right before the start of the One Year War. You are thinking of the later Zaku II variants like the MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai or the MS-06F2 Zaku II F2 Type.
One can argue that the machine that replaced the Jegan, the Heavygun had just as long of an active lifespan.
actually good: jegan, leo(kinda weird because wing plot armor make them look trash af but they actually pretty good)
Trash: gundam age grunt that have participate a 100 year war with 0 kill. Like bruh.
My guess with the MS Generation thing is that its also a Classifications System rather than just a technological arms race. With units that have...Questionable Debates (Looking at you Re-GZ), I would honestly classify them as .5 Generation units, like its got the tech, but maybe not the armor or in reverse, a stopgate machine, etc. So if we go with this idea, you could make the Mk.II a 1.5 Generation machine, its the stop gate towards Gen 2 MS.
Some of the advanced models or upgraded variants of production MS that out perform the previous generation, but doesn't fit the exact definition of the next generation can be put into an "unofficial" X.5 generation.
This is something we see in the last few decades with the designation of 4.5 generation fighters. These latest designs/variants of some 4th generation jet fighters incorporate the latest/next gen tech into their design. Some are 4th gen upgraded while other designs are wholly new 4.5 gen types.
Then again this is just a simplified attempt to round up some of the outlier MS.
Agreed. I was thinking throughout the video 'Doesn't he know about x.5 designations?' but our man Kakarot is a mobile suit historian, not an aircraft historian, so it's understandable.
@@matohibiki Well, I do think there is some difficulty to define generations when they are introduced, because its difficult to define what features will warrant qualification towards a new generation. For once, F-35's supposed ability to multi-link in a network really makes it a completely different asset than the high-performance F-22. Maybe in hindsight the F-22 will be an outlier, an dead-end that is too expensive to get have equals or be maintained.. just like the Zumwalt-class destroyers where.
Interesting enough, besides the new 'next best thing', there is also a more prominent focus to develop more conventional, easier to field in numbers, and more evolutionary programs like next USAF NGAD and the next multi-purpose USN ships will be FFG(X), which is basically an Americanized 'conventional' FREMM frigate.
I think there is coming more appreciation that real wars means the ability to take real losses and be able to replenish them, cause past generation weapons are more than capable to do serious damage when deployed effectively.
@@Tuning3434 There's always the question of 'yeah, it's new, but is it a generational leap, or is it same gen, new toy?'
I feel like a lot of discussions on generational transitions are a hindsight perspective thing, because I agree it's not something you can firmly say while looking forward, not knowing what's coming up.
There's also, like you mentioned, the question of 'is this a generational leap, or a weird outlier?' and that one's super tricky to pin down without the benefit of looking at things in the past. Is something going to be a weird outlier, or does it start that way, then make a resurgence once it's realised that 'hey, that weird thing from before? turns out it's really good, if we tweak it a little, and slap it in these other new things'.
Which is all sorts of a logistical headache on its own, isn't it?
Much like how Generation One machines came in many forms and design quirks, you can say that Generation 2 also came in in ' pieces' before it all came together in one package. I like to think that Second Generation machines started off with standard implementation of the 360 cockpit and linear seat. So the Alex I don't class as a Second Gen but more a 1.7 Gen.
Third Generation is best distinguished by the rise of the VMS but I also think MS that are based from or influenced by them also count. So the Hyaku Shiki and Byarlant count.
Fourth Generation is certainly all about how many high powered beam weapons/psycommu tech can be install on one Mobile Suit.
The real issue about decides to what is considered next gen combat vessels is that different nations have different standards and there own way of building things. Even more so when you consider the vast distances separating many of the powers in UC. Post-OYW especially.
Interesting fact I leaned after discovering the Anaheim Journal: the Gundam Development Project is considered the 'Missing Link' in mobile suit design/development evolution until AE released its existence in 0090.
You know... What i like most is, when we "collectively" agreed that we all should avoid talking bout G-Saviour 😂😂😂 for future good....
In my opinion the Hiyaku Shiki is the end of 2nd Generation and would have been the first 3rd Generation if the Delta Gundam had gone forward as planned.
With the 4th Generation I would say the main focus is on Number/Power of Weapons and the associated generators. The Nu Gundam isn't the ZZ, but it does have 6 Funnels each with their own generator. The Unicron then was developed specifically to counter Newtype weapons, it wasn't the next step it was simply a reaction.
This is a good analysis. I think we can even subdivide each generation into early, middle, and late.
Great info as always Kakarot, the OYW units being upgraded to standardized specs during the Gryps war really helped me out. I’m working on a fan fic and was thinking of doing this exact thing, good to know it’s actually true in universe.
Here’s my question, how are Mobile suits controlled using the various controls in the cockpit? We know only what we are shown in the anime but how are they exactly operated? For example special limb movement like punches and kicks, melee combat etc.
Huh, that’s pretty neat. You ever get around to writing it? Cause I’m wondering if it’s readable anywhere.
@@evanotterson6780 still in process, I’m on story boarding atm, and finishing up character designs, next is ms design & backgrounds oof
11:26 the minovsky craft system is an anti-gravity system. its actually well articulated/visualized in the latest movie.
while the minovsky flight system is a propulsion system. (of which both are used on some/most battleships. it was getting them down to mobile suit size that was the trick)
I alwais thought that the first generation was the OYW mobile suits, the 2th was the movable frame, the 3rth the variable frame, the 4th the psicoframe, the 5th were the built-in Minovsky Flight Unit sistem that alow atmosferic flight, and the 6th onward was the small mobile suits along the more powerfull generators like the F90, the 7th was the F91 with the VSBR, and the 8th with the Victory Gundam
The F90 is capable of using VSBR, it was just a add-on part that ended up being the test bed for the F91. But the bio computer on F91( which is a newtype enhancing program) is what would make it different, but SNRI made that secretly because the Federation still feared newtype machine. So SNRI probably didn't want to classify it as a generation unit to avoid suspicions. Which would also help the Crossbone Gundam avoid suspicions as well since they had to operate independently of any affiliation. So the Victory Gundam probably had a bio computer as well but it independently built by the league Militaire because Federation didn't want to involved with the conflict at first.
I've been hoping you would do this video! Thanks for making it.
TRU
The G-Saviour machines seem more like 1st generation ms with a beam shield. Honestly, everything in G-Saviour seems more primitive than OYW equipment. It's honestly kind of weird
It's explained in the crossbone manga that technology declined after the zanscare war.
Makes you wonder what generation the Turn A Gundam is since it's the last so far.
I like to think gen 4 is the adding of a lot of integrated weapons, and then gen 5 was originally psycho-frame, but since that technology was erased from history, minovski craft suits became the "new" gen5
That part hanging over the head of the RX-104ff's head always bothered me because every time I see it, my first thought is it can transform into a jet but it can't.
I personally wouldn't put prototype/test machines as a benchmark of a generation until retroactively classified as such, since they only exist to test tech to POTENTIALLY put in future mass production lines. Like real life jet generations, I believe some MS can be classified as in-between generations, or Genereration X+. For example the GM-II, it's almost literally just a OYW GM, updated with post-war tech, making it Generation 1+, then looking at the next generation, a Jegan is taking what defined Gen 2, general machines with better avionics, engines, armor and weapons, and updating it with tech that make Gen 3 (transforming) suits cutting edge: even better computers, reinforced frames, weapons and armor enhancements, making the Jegan and Geara Doga Gen 2+ suits (with much later Jegan models with under-the-hood upgrades being examples of Gen 2++) and so on. I think of Generations as what is used in mass production or limited production with tech that pushed the envelope of tech compared to the previous generations that it became a new category, and older models upgraded to keep pace are + models still of the older Gen, much like modern jets. Sorry for long post, but I am passionate about military culture and tech, this stuff fascinates me 😀.
Actually, the GM II can be both a Gen 1 and a Gen 2 machine, depending on which ones your talking about. The RGM-79R version is the upgraded original GM, and the RMS-179 is the freshly produced model. The latter would classify as a Gen 2 suit, with the panoramic cockpit qualification.
If I'm not mistaken what makes a true fifth generation mobile suit was that it was the first series of mobile suits equipped with the Minovsky Craft System, which allowed a spaceship or heavy ground vehicle to "fly"/hover on Earth. The Principality of Zeon was slow to make use of this principle and the only units equipped with Minovsky craft systems during the One Year War were the MAX-03 Adzam and the three prototype Apsalus mobile armours. However, the Earth Federation was quick to adopt the system on its Pegasus-class assault carriers. This allowed the Pegasus-class to enter and exit earth's atmosphere and to fly while inside the atmosphere. This system could not be miniaturized to fit on a mobile suit until after U.C.0100. The first MS equipping such a device is RX-104FF Penelope from Hathaway's Flash, which is comprised of the RX-104 Odysseus Gundam combined with its Fixed Flight support unit. RX-105 Ξ Gundam which appeared in the same series also equipped the device, however it is fully integrated into its structure. Thus making the RX-105 Ξ Gundam the true first fifth generation mobile suit. Eventually the Minovsky Craft System design would be overhauled and upgraded into the Minovsky Drive, the first of its kind being built into the ship Mother Vanguard of the Crossbone Vanguard as a system nicknamed the "Sail of Light". This very same drive system was than installed on the F99 Record Breaker. A new system called the Minovsky flight system was also a upgrade version of the Minovsky Craft system was installed on the Victory and Voctory 2 gundam.
Credit to Gundams Technology Wiki for the information/etc I used when describing the Minovsky Systems.
Actually RIC DIAS also uses the moveable frame technology as well (just with a version of a designly relocated cockpit)
becase lore-wise, I remeber heard one of the Gundam lore person mention that the AEUG decided to used the moveable frame on RIC DIAS after they caputre Gundam MK II for themselves form TITANS
While I am not entirely sure how it impacts the idea of classifying generations of mobile suits in the grand scale I believe that the adoption of replaceable E-caps might be one of the most significant changes between first and second generation mobile suits.
Come to think of it then I am not entirely sure where the Barzam would fall in the first place.
E caps would probably have more impact on weapon generations than mpbile suit generations. Simply because gen 1 ms could use e-cap equipped weapons since they dont need the generator to power the weapon directly
@@EunosRacer There's still a required generator output for a MS to use a beam rifle. This has not changed with the advent of e-packs. What changed is that instead of switching out the entire rifle, the e-pack can be replaced like a magazine.
I took a peek at G-Saviour and that thing's cockpit went back to OYW style cockpit. That is an absolutely awfully terrifically and utterly stupendous idea.
Still waiting for that promised Lore video of the "ALICE SYSTEM"
Ever since the *"5 Gundams You'd WANT to Pilot (As An Average Person)"* video.
I think G savior is actually downgrading back to Gen3/4 suits. I mean that happens in armored core lore that the tech gets downgraded (from 4A to V) so maybe the mobile suits tech of G savior time is also downgraded due to some untold reasons?
Gotta remember the stop-gap generation machines; the X.5 generation machines and etc. But I guess that's a can of worms not worth opening at this point.
G-Saviour, where everything reverted to back OYW era tech despite having a Beam Shield, lol.
The small detail Kakarot using the AOZ Gaplant image just feels right
Just some related comments from my Gundam and engineering loving brain:
1) Some MS had their prototypes developed in one an earlier generation, but ginalized in a later generation. At least, according to lore. I can't tell you if because of this, these MS are classified as their development generation's number, or their finalized generation's number. But it's interesting to think about how this would essentially blur that already blurry generational divide.
2) IRL, Phase 2 MS weren't divided into further generations, simply because the creators of the series probably didn't think of the idea until later. Maybe.... Otherwise, yes, we should have Phase 1-1 through Phase 1-5 and then Phase 2-1 through Phase 2-X.
3) If you pay real close attention to the generations, they're pretty much according to war, which is pretty much according to series. Though, multiple series do take place during certain wars, such as One Year War having (First) Gundam, 08MST, 0080, and 0083 (to an extent). So for the most part, it's OYW = Gen1, Z = Gen2 and leading into Gen3, ZZ = Gen3, CCA = Gen4, and Hathaway's Flash = Gen5. Of course, there's blurry lines here too due to some MS being produced between the wars, so their exact placement is weird.
3) G-Saviour...
🤦♂️
That whole movie was a mess. So much so that even Bandai treats it like the black sheep of the Gundam family. Nothing makes sense in it. It isn't lore friendly.
IGNORE IT! (This comment mostly aimed at those who haven't seem the movie).
4) I'd have to consider a Gen0 of MS too. The "development generation." Basically, the whole process of experimentation and development that led up to a working MS.
In the pre-Origin IRL times, these were the MS-01, MS-02, MS-03, and MS-04. The history was vague, stating that the MS were more like construction machines, rather than war machines. Then the MS units were further developed and eventually, the MS-04 (I think, or it was the actual earliest versions of the MS-05 Zaku I) was disguised as a construction machine for testing purposes, but was secretly being developed for war by the Zeon.
Later in IRL, the Origin series came out, which further detailed this time period. MS-01 was the MASH, the most basic of MS that was designed to test basic movement and functionality. A proof of concept, if you will. It even still needed to be plugged in for power. Then the MS-02, or the... well... where IS the MS-02!? They skip over it, I think. Unless it's the later version of the MASH, which used a nuclear reactor instead of being plugged in. Then the MS-03 Waff. And finally, the MS-04 Bugu.
Then there's the whole contract fight between the Zudah and the Zaku I.
FINAL THOUGHT:
I'm a huge fan of the UC Gundam, but let's be honest, some of the lore is fuzzy, and there's a TON of lore now. I'm bound to be wrong on some stuff, if not all of it. But still... interesting to think about it!
6:00 I see what you're saying. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence but I must point out that the Rick Diaz was already an established machine in production based on existing technology and the Gundam Mark 2 was a testbed specifically designed to test the viability of the variable geometry movable frame technology. That being said I find it highly unlikely that the Rick Diaz would have that technology since it hasn't even been tested yet. Well that's my two cents
Very interesting topic, but there are a few errors here. The defunct Library of Londenion (still accessible via wayback machine), has the info you are looking for, originally published in the Entertainment Bible 2 back in 1989. The short version is:
2nd Generation MS need to fulfill 4 criteria:
1- Have a linear seat
2- Have a panoramic cockpit
3- Use beam weapons as standard equipment
4- Have a movable frame
Within the fanbase, some consider Generation 1.5 those machines that fulfill some, but not all, of this criteria, like the Gundam Mk II. The Rick Dias is an odd case, because some sources say it doesn't have a movable frame, but rather something called a movable block construction, that the Gaza C also uses and which seems to be considered an early type of movable frame.
3rd gen machines are simply Transformable MS (TMS), not to be confused with transformable MAs (TMA), which appeared earlier. The Hyaku Shiki doesn't qualify, simply because it's not a TMS, even if it was based on one.
4th generation machines are NT "only" MS which need to have:
-High output generators
-High Mega Cannon armament
-Stable Psycommu/Quasi Psycommu system
Naturally the main cavebeat here is that the quasi-psycommu actually allows non-NT to perform the all range attacks of newtypes, so the Doven Wolf actually qualifies as a 4th gen machine. The other 2 common mentioned examples are the ZZ Gundam and the Geymalk, the later which has the "weakest" main beam weapon among these 3 units, with a power rating of 30.5 MW.
Similarly to the gen 1.5 MS, the Zeta Gundam, Qubeley and the O are sometimes called 3.5 gen machines among fans, since they lack the generator output & firepower of a 4th gen MS, but have a NT related system and high performance. Despite its size and firepower, the Queen Mantha seems to belong to this 3.5 tier, given that its "strongest" beam weapons only have a power rating of 8.6 MW.
Questions: 1. Gundam Alex is a prototype with first ever panoramic cockpit and 2. The gundam development project in 0083 is considered as 'missing link' so are they secretly the 'lost generation' ?
With the size and complexity of the Xi and Penelope, it'd be a nightmare fixing either of those machines. It kind of bumbs me out that neither see much action.
I think it's easier if you include the .5 generation inside just like how fighter jets did it. Gen 5 jets have the requirements to have a stealth capabilities and thrust vectoring (F-35, F-22, PAK-FA) while Gen 4.5 is basically an upgraded Gen 4 with modern avionics (F-15EX is an F-15 upgraded with better avionics systems and so on) or even a completely brand new jets (Rafale & Eurofighter)
I love how the Penelope gundam is massive while it has a very small head and the unicorn Gundam looks like a god
Semi unrelated. Rx-0 is still my favorite ms to date. I love its clean, classic lines.
It's very much like a resto mod car. Take something with older styling and modernize the under pinning. Obviously there's more to unicorn than that, but that's the aesthetic I get.
yo my man got the skill share sponsorship now. happy to see you moving up, dude. keep up the good work
Technology is often hard to identify and categorize because it is ever evolving and changing, and considering that technology in the Gundam universe is so advanced and continues to advance with new technology that sometimes it makes certain technologies obsolete and that we can’t identify much about it unless it is stated.
So why didn't we see any gelgoog type in the delaz fleet in the 083 anime just zakus and Rick doms and dra-Cs and only the chima fleet. Given that he was given that he was gihren's right hand devote man you think he would have a decent amount .
Maybe they were too hard to maintain for 4 years, you'd be surprised at how many spare parts aircraft go through. I imagine MS like Gelgoog didn't have as readily available spare parts as the mass produced Zakus and Doms
@@My_name_is_A2 a good point and with the abundance of Zaku and dom wrecks after the war I guess it's easier fir the assembly line in the rose of thron to work with
During world War II, we saw numerous examples of military units who refused to get new tanks or upgraded cannons, because the old ones they had worked just fine and the units were afraid that if they started fielding new equipment they may have unforeseen problems with the new equipment. There are numerous documented instances of American armored units refusing to upgrade their M4 Sherman's from the 75 mm gun to the objectively better 76 mm gun.
Whenever I see instances in fiction of groups fielding outdated equipment for seemingly no reason, I assume it's the matter of the pilots preferring their tried and true machines over the delicate newfangled things.
@@My_name_is_A2 This makes a lot of sense to me. Cima's fleet, being both pirates and having the secret backing from within the Federation/Anaheim, would have an easier time maintaining such units.
That also helps explain the strong distrust from the other Zeon remnants. Not only do they have the stigma of being the ones to deploy the G3 poison gas, but this one fleet not allowed on Axis still has well maintained Gelgoogs.
I wish Bandai would make some distinguishing mechanical features between MS generations in the Gunpla models. It would be cool to build a couple different generations and see the tech change between suits.
I think I would have to call gundam mark 2 and Hiyaku Shiki to be transitional weapons. They are bridges between previous gens and new generations.
2:36 So it's basically the same schtick as the original Transformers show. It didn't get the Generation 1 name until the Generation 2 line of repaint toys came out.
Keeping with the TF analogy; the Gen 6/Phase 2 MS being smaller due to better tech and fuel efficiency; is a lot like the Beast Era of the G1 continuity. Wherein the Cybertronians generally agreed to undergo a universal downsizing as there was an Energon crisis. So smaller, more fuel-efficient bodies that could refuel by eating organic matter via synthetic animal alternate forms, were much more favourable.
Will you do a developement history video on the woundwort?
one thing i think about about gen 1 MS are the existence of dedicated earth surface only MS like the Gouf, Dom, Fed & Zeon "Ground type" MS, is that dual environment MS where too expensive or heavy or making MS that specializes in one environment at the time was more economical and afterwards by MS development at Gen 2 looks like MS are either dual purpose or space only with only a few Ground use oddities developed afterwards like the Asshimar. also maybe Aquatic use MS as a whole with the lack of any real development after the OYW, but aquatic MS could be considered their own thing entirely.
What I want to know is if the main gundam of every series were to be put into these classifications, where would they be placed?
The Nu Gundam doesn't have a built-in high mega particle cannon but has its handheld beam rifle that can switch between a high-mega particle cannon-esque firepower or as a beam machine gun. Pairing up with the Newtype Fin Funnels, the Nu Gundam can be technically called a 4th Gen MS
The Saviour series MS actually look pretty cool. I feel like what defines them is high speed maneuverability and easily changable modular systems. It's possible in my headcanon at least, that the reason they are bigger is because manufacturers are going for quality over quantity, prefering a fewer amount of larger MS that can take more hits vs a swarm of smaller ones that get blasted. The RGM-196 Freedom is also in a case where it's actually still smaller than a GM or Jegan, just not as miniaturized as the James Gun or Javelin were. Despite its performance in the show, you gotta keep in mind those were ones kept in storage and not maintained well, likely leading to their usual beam weaponry being unusable. I'm pretty sure the 196 possibly had a beam shield, sword, and rifle like its previous generations. As for why the CMS-03 Bugus are only seen with machine guns in the movie and regular shields, it is stated on the gundam wiki that they can use beam weapons just fine, so its possibly that the food shortages also lead to energy shortages. So either 2 things then, is that they didn't want to waste the energy by giving the CMS-03 Bugu, an outdated machine at its time, beam weapons just as well since they had the MW-Rai for real combat. Its also possible we only see them with Machine guns because they weren't actually seen fighting in space just in the settlments. So they were likely just being used to attack targets that lacked capability to retaliate. We also know all the saviour series has just as advanced equipment as previous generations. And the G3-Saviour and J-Saviours have a specially developed double jointed frame for more diverse movement and maneuverability. It's also possible that with the Bugu, the film makers just wanted to recreate that feel the Zakus had when they first dropped into the colony all the way back in UC 0079.
I've overthought G-Saviour A LOT. Because I think bad movie aside, it had a decent video game, and the time period in the UC and the mobile suit designs are actually rather interesting. The Earth Federation was bound to collapse eventually, and it logically makes sense that certain groups would attempt to fill the role, and fail. UC 0224 also feels very space centric, making ya wonder what kind of condition the Earth is in now, and that perhaps Earthnoids are more oppressed than Spacenoids now.
I love your videos. I got 2 questions. 1) if the hades system and the exam system fought, who would win 2) could you talk about the universe where the rx-78-2 was stolen by zeon and would pilot it. (I never seen much about it)
Question of the Week, is there information about the state of space exploration Gundam Universes? I mean, Mobile Suits lurking in deep space, outer colonies in the solar system, people in other planets.... Aliens?
With G-Savior, it's best to have a general _regression_ back to Phase 1 machines due to the fact that, by Victory Gundam, the Federation was basically done for as it basically killed itself. When you've got situation as _fracked_ as UC Gundam during the Victory era... yeah.
YAAAAYY THANKS KAKAROT197 I JUST WAKE UP AND SEEING THIS JUST MADE MY DAY☺💕
Haven't watched one of your videos in forever now that there's no lore videos but this one was good reminded me of the old days. See ya around ole pal....... ....... ..... ... .. .
Geara Doga/ Geara Zulu Development History plz
Ironically; much like how there aren't gong to be that many fifth gen fighters, the fifth generation of mobile suits ultimately didn't amount to much.
I'd categorise generations by the type of conflict they are intended to fight.
Generation 1: All 1 year one models except advanced prototypes possessing features associated with later generations.
Generation 1.5: Advanced one off prototypes for technologies that would be mass adopted by later generations (i.e. Linear Seats, psycommu; ex: NT1, MSN-01, MSN-02, GP03S)
Generation 2: Grypps War. Mass adoption of linear seats, field replaceable E-packs, improved avionics extending sensor range(at least 8800m, usually 10000m or more)
Generation 3: Transformable SUITs
Generation 4: 'NewType warfare'. Psycommu, quasi-psycommu, psycho-frame, psycho-control, etc. Bio-sensor if you squint (thus including Z, ZZ and D+)
Generation 5: Minovsky Craft System
Generation 6: Miniaturised SUITs.
Generation 7: Minovsky Flight system. Beam rotor if you squint.
G-Saviour would be in a generation of its own but not Gen 8. It's a technological throwback. The cockpits are back to OYW era CRTs. They have beam shields, but not miniaturised reactors. If I were forced to categorise it, it would be... Generation 1. They're essentially starting the MS arms race all over again.
You mentioned the designation for MS in the OYW but how do you explain the GM III? Since supposedly it came out during just before the Gryps war, yet only appeared in the the first Neo Zeon War.
Same could be said for the RX-75 and RX-77 series.
I always consider gen 1 ms to be from the oyw-0083 and gen 2 started in 0084-0088 and gen 3 started in 0088-0090 and gen 4 0091-0100 and gen 5 to be everything beyond 0101
It seems the generation tag is more focus on the technology applied to mobile suit/armor than the raw overpowered thing. Could be Industrial point of view.
I think the "phase" is really good to describe mobile suit/armor after the 5th generation, because the size of warfare turn drastically after f91 series, different needs had been develope at that time.
The Mk.II would be what's known as a "1.5" meaning it has features used in next-gen machines but is itself, either an upgraded older generation machine or built to the standards of an older generation machine. The Mk.II is remarked on not being much of an upgrade over the RX-78 in the show.
Will you talk about the mobile suits from Union, Human Reform League, AEU, Earth Sphere Federation, A-Laws and Ribbons' Innovators?
G-saviour, think on it, let it rot your nightmares.
I Think Gen 3 Mobile Suits aren't just about the Transformations they could also be the improvement of AMBAC Controls and their ability to adapt in Earth and Space
Mobile Suits like the Dijeh, Hyakushiki and Nemo IIs had specialized wing binders that would help with the Mobile Suit respond and move better in Space but they lack the long lasting atmospheric flight of Generation 5 Mobile Suits
Hi Kakarot, great video, thanks for the great quality content.
This raised a doubt in my mind, what generation is the ZGMF-X10A and its later variation the ZGMF-X20A?
The generation system shown here only applies to Universal Century continuity. The SEED series are part of the Cosmic Era continuity, and would have it's own generation system due to the drastic technological differences.
There is only one MS that transcends both MS generation and outlives everything else and that is the.......BALL.
Hmm I could also see the Hyaku Shiki as maybe a 2.5 Generation if your willing.
I think a cool question to ask would be what if Zaft failed to capture any of the G-weapons or only succeed in stealing one of them? How would the Archangel try to use them? Like for example would Kira help some of the crew by creating the natural compatible os or like having Mu use the Aegis Gundam in MA mode to sortie along with kira.
Amazing! I tried to do this in 2020 but got caught in the Gen 3/4/5 definitions.
Can you do a history of the Gundam Mk. IV/V/Doven Wolf/Silver Bullet series?
Mark Curran's shitty actor is real and his space-suit-that-looks-like-badly-layered-leather-armor is COMING FOR YOU!
(wiggles G-savior DVD menacingly)
Goofy jokes aside, I think the generation system is more to do with conflict periods. Like, the reason the Xi and the Penelope were mentioned specifically by their generation is because remnants and opposition forces were still using older machines from previous wars. Gen 1 would be the One Year War, Gen 2 would be the Delaz conflict right up to the very beginning of the Grips conflict, Gen 3 would be the Grips conflict onwards through the Neo Zeon war, Gen 4 would encompass the suits of Char's Counterattack, and Gen 5 would encompass the top-of-the-line suits of Hathaway's era. Unicorn's suits wouldn't fit in there, even being just about 10 years prior to that, but that's largely because the Unicorn's main new suits were either major off-the-cuff prototypes like the NTD machines that were likely HEAVILY classified due to their reality-bending technical details, or older machines that had been refit in "new" ways. Either that or they were just slotted in with Gen 4 suits due to the Axis Shock event and their similarities to what happened there.
First mobile suits - better structure and armor - transformable - the power of god - flying in atmosphere - small - small and flying in atmosphere - whatever g savior is - nano machines son? (turn a did wipe out UC century in the end) and they really turned things down a notch after gen 4
I’ll call the upgraded one year war units Generation 1.5.
Maybe you can use .5 for the MS/MA if it is somewhere between each generation (similar to the definition to define the generation for fighter jet).
8:30 I'm not sure how reliable or accurate it is, but according to the Hyaku Shiki's description in Gundam Battle Operation 2 it is labled as a second generation mobile suit. Again, I'm not entirely sure if there are sources outside the game that confirm or deny this, but maybe it gives us some sort of clue as to which generation it belongs in.
(Potential question of the week): I don't know if you may of covered this in another video, but what do you think would've happened if Zeon decided to produce the Gouf more over the Dom? Would it have changed the OYW in any way, and what variants do you think we would've seen if production continued past the OYW?
We would have the awesome Rick Gouf instead
I ussually attribute mechanical generations to the time period they were developed, kinda like human generations. Example, OYW Era machines are Gen 1 units. MS developed around the Delaz Conflict and the First Neo Zeon War are Gen 2 machines. Char's Counterattack got Gen 3. And I guess Unicorn and Narrative are 4th Gen MS.
Yeah, probably for the best not to talk about G-Saviour. Claims to take place in the years past Victory, has a grunt mech based specifically on the original RGM-79 GM and no other machine.
Sometimes you go back and produce a Gen 0.5, like the new F15EX would be a Gen 3.5, by upgrading the avionics, but that doesn’t change the major differences, which are usually based on leaps in applied scientific development. I don’t consider a monitor change to be a generational leap, but a radar or targeting system might signify a different level of technology.
Gen I, Everything up to RX-78
Gen 1.5 RX-78, Alex, GP Series, MKII, Shiki, Zeong and other technology demonstrators for Psycommu and Exam. Later suits like the Jegan and the Jesta aren’t really any different technology-wise, but have higher performance than some of the next generation.
Gen II Zeta, Delta, Sentinel, and other transformable mobile suits with Biosensors and capable of atmospheric reentry. Gen II ends when there is no mass production possible.
Gen III, ReGz, Jagd Doga, Sazabi, Nu Gundam, introduction of limited psycho frame
Gen III.5, Unicorn, Neo Zeong, Full Psychoframe plus limiter, plus NTD, Psychowave, Psychoframe gets banned.
Gen IV, Penelope Minovsky flight system
Gen V, F90, Micro reactors, ultra lightweight materials.
Gen VI probably something here.
Gen VII, Turn A, the height of mobile suit development, and the end of mobile suit development.
All the way up through Gen V, Gen I.5 suits are still refitted with modern technology. They aren’t that great, mainly because their frame isn’t 100% compatible with the upgradesz
What mobile suit gundam thunderbolt alternate take on an existing MS in the story do you like?
I would also like to hear your thoughts on the Bull-G the gundam type created from the GM Cannon II thunderbolt version.
Could you do like a explanation of like all the forms of the unicorn Gundam and the banshee and Phenex because I'm quite confused about what is what
There are 3 units of the Unicorn
Unicorn 01
Unicorn 02 Banshee
Unicorn 03 Phenex
Both the Unicorn 01 and 02 can use the green psycho frame and in theory, they çan both use the Full armor weapons, but the Banshee was upgraded to the Banshee Norn instead to fight against the FA Unicorn.
All of the Perfectibility versions were based on concepts for the FA Unicorn, as well as experimenting with the concept of a single Unicorn gundam that encompasses all previous versions on the Unicorn
@@GojiraFan-in9oo neat
Well unit 1 is essentially the basic template of the RX0 line , unit 2 was visually the same in black but due to damage during its encounter with the rebawoo it's face, horn and upper chest were damaged then replaced with new parts to give it its own appearance other than that it's equipment with the smart beam gun and vibration nails that can either crush or shred mobile suits , the phenex is on the simular case eith the DE shields on its back give it more thrust, psycho frame and double as funnels so it's more or less a high mobility version of unit 1
The beast of possibility could turn into a squirl if it's pilot was strong enough
@@Aceshot-uu7yx what
I feel like classifying the generations after performance and combat doctrine makes a lot more sense than just a binary "does it have x or y feature", like you said with the 4th Gen, probably an effect more so than the cause, although if it has to be pinned to individual elements, your categorization is probably as good as it's gonna get; something built in the UC 120s won't be a first or second gen MS anymore, even if it on paper might not fulfill the criteria for anything higher.
As for GS; there's some interesting arguments to be made here, especially when looking at the tech in the video game, or contrasting it to Gaia Gear -I know they're not canon to each other, but shush- . Perhaps material for a future followup on the very tail end of UC; something of a technology retrospective might be pretty cool to see, as kind of a zoomed out look on which trends started and ended where, and what suits and events might have caused the shift to and from technologies
Thanks a bunch Kakarot!! I love your question of the week content!
I was just curious, are you going to continue your discussion about the time you worked at the Gundam Cafe anytime soon? I found your first video on it really interesting and would love to hear more!! I was hoping to get to Japan and by extension, the Cafe, before it closed, but alas, the state of the world over the past few years set me back and I am lucky to even be going to Europe this year! Please let me know if you are doing another video on your time there soon!
a question i'd like you to address is the confusing change in federation's ship's hull registry: supposedly after the OYW mobile suit assault crafts would see their registry changed from scv/scva to msc (i.e. the White Base was retroactively changed from scv-70 to msc-02). however the Nahel Argama uses the scva prefix whereas the older Albion uses the msc prefix.
Is it that perhaps the msc regitry was used only by the pegasus class assault carriers?
Bonus question if you can: is it known what the hull registry for the Ra Cailum is?
You can never escape G-Saviour :P
So, the narrative is a 1st generation machine.
Easiest to notice as only Feeration 1st generation units EVER USED that cockpit that doubled as an escape craft (They became widely used on TEST units for new MS tech in testing phases for the Federation EXACTLY because the cockpit and its data storage could then be easily recovered/salvaged if the test unit ever suffered a catastrophic failure or incident that caused the test MS to be destroyed by having the test pilot bail out with it back to the base/mothership)
I was JUST wondering this!
Thanks!
My head canon is whatever the nearest War is is the generation its from
OYW
Grips War/ZZ
Char's Counterattack
Unicorn/Hathaway
F91/Crossbone
Victory+
if the gen four requirement is built in hyper mega particle cannons: wouldnt that make the zeong and the barzam gen four?
Can you explain the difference between monocoque and semi monocoque frames? It seems to be based on aircraft frames but you can't really apply the same logic to mobile suits
out of curiosity, what generation would you consider the man-machines from the Gaia Gear novel? Asking as that takes place in the late UC but before G-Saviour.
I was curious why you were so uneasy about G-Saviour, but one look at the wiki and yeah, I immediately understand, the first words that jumped out to me were 'Live Action' and 'Illuminati' closely followed by 'CONSENT' 'Gaea' and '1999'
Ok, this is a long one, but bear with me. I think there also needs to be half-gen units, that inroduce future parts of the technology, but arent there all the way. I do remember seeing somewhere that the Gamma Gundam, the prototype of the Rick Dias, had a prototype inner frame, so the technology was still incomplete, but the machine's performance was more than enough to have it put into production as the AEUGs flagship machine at the beginning of the Grypse war, before the development of the more than likely significantly cheaper Nemo which had the completed inner frame technology gained from the Gundam Mk. II. So, the Rick Dias is a 1.5 gen, Mk. II is a 2nd gen, with the impementation of the inned frame being the hallmark for 2nd Generation machines, not the Gundarium Gamma, which was where the Gamma Gundam got its name from. Funnily enough, Axis were the ones that made the Gamma Gundam, not the Federation, Anaheim, or the Titans. Char was the one that decided against it being called a gundam, because of all the ex-zeon personnel involved with the AEUG. Further on, the Hyaku Shiki, a machine originally intended as the transformable Delta Gundam but it's frame kept breaking in simulations, making the Delta a failed 3rd gen, but was built as the Hyaku Shiki as a 2.5 gen, since it did incorporate the movable frame and advanced technologies inherent with a transformable mobile suit, but without the transformation mechanism itself. Gen 3 units would be the transformable units with the advanced technologies necissary to make them function like the Zeta, Double Zeta, Zeta Plus, and the Methuss, with the Gaza-C and D being 2.5 gens or even 2.25 Gens, since their transformable frames were incomplete technologically and prone to ripping themselves apart if transformed one time too many, much like the Delta, along with their performance being at around the level of mass production 2nd Gen units of the time. Gen 4 would be primarily Psychoframe-equipped units, so the Nu, Sazabi, Sinanju, Unicorn, and the Moon/ Psycho Gundam mk. IV, with units like the Qubeley and the Varguil being a 3.5 gen, since they do have movable frame, semi-transformation parts like the Qubeley's shoulder units or the movable leg thrusters of the Varguil, but were primarily focused around the development of psycommu weapons using the miniaturized psycommu system built for standard sized mobile suits of the day, without the completed psychoframe technology that was the basis for the Gen 4 machines Finally, you have Generation 5, which were units equipped with the Minovsky Flight system, on top of the technologies from the previous generations, such as the psycho-wave controlled funnel weapons, namely the psycho missiles, and transformable frames (notably the penelope when it goes into cruising mode). So, by those definitions, most mass production mobile suits from later UC, such as the Geara Doga, Geara Zulu, Jegan, and Jesta would all be very refined 2nd Gen machines, since this generation's designs and designations seem to be the ideal one for mass production units, with the likes of the ReZel, Assimar, Anksha, and the Bawoo being 3rd Gen machines due to their transformation capabilities, even though the Asshimar lacks the movable frame. Not sure about the Anksha, but it does share a number of parts with the ReZel and the Jegan, so it would not surprise me if it had at least a partial movable frame. Then finally, after this, would be the generations of miniaturized mobile suits, which is a whole other mess.
its real funny how most mobile suit becomes obsolete after just 2 or 3 years, after its put out into the field! and others last for decades, due fact their more pratical in terms of use.
I remember them saying that the Xi and the Penelope was the first that can perform independent flight which had me thinking, does that mean that the transformable MS like from the Zeta era (Zeta, Gaplant, Ashimar etc.) is not considered an MS that can perform independent flight? What about the Byarlant as well as the Gouf Flight type?
Would that make the ZZ a generation 3 or 4? I would think 4, because despite the lack of newtype features, it has one of the most powerful generators for a mobile suit and devastatingly powerful high mega cannon.
Edit: I take that back. It had a bio-sensor, developed by Anaheim Electronics. It was a kind of proto-psycommu system.