"Angry & Bitter" Ex-Mormons Tell All
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Why are ex-Mormons sometimes angry, frustrated, or bitter towards the Mormon church? I asked them! (:
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I was once told by a Mormon that he missed me after I had stopped attending. He lived three houses down from me. I was thinking, “I’m right here, man.”
Yep. Same here. I had members say “oh, now I can be your customer again. Glad your back.”
I didn’t take them back as customers.
Just got this comment yesterday. A lady saw my daughter at work and told HER to tell ME that she missed me. We live on the same fucking street.....
When I was practicing, I stopped going for almost a 2 year period during my teens. I’d constantly hear “we miss you” from the same kids that saw me everyday on the school bus
@@keile513 wow. I wish I could say I was surprised, but I’m not. There’s some great people there and they’re some real idiots.
Makes me laugh, but at the same time makes me sick. So typical
When you feel like you'd been lied to or tricked you might have an emotional response.
Part 2 please! My biggest point of anger is the role I was shoehorned into as a woman. I may or may not have taken some missed opportunities and chosen a different path if I wasn’t taught that my purpose was to be a wife and mom and to become those things asap. Myself and my husband could have skipped out on some pretty hard times and some trauma if we hadn’t gotten married and had babies so dang young.
Not to mention being looked at as a second class citizen because of my gender and lack of “priesthood power”. 🙄
Yeahhh, my tbm family was having a discussion the other day about polygamy in the afterlife, and how dudes were allowed to be sealed to multiple women, but not the other way around. I couldn't help myself from saying "augh, I've always found that to be so dumb!" And it got kinda awkward, and my mom was like "well, it's because of the priesthood" or something along those lines. One of those moments that reminded me I'm not gonna change their minds lol. ;) But um, yeah....as a woman who grew up tbm (even got married in the temple, served a mission, everything), I feel you so hard!! My now ex-husband and I didn't have kids, thankfully. That would've been a lot harder. (Nothing wrong with being a parent, we just got married at 20 and I was personally NOT ready lol.) Things were and are amicable, it was one of those situations where we kinda "grew up" together in our early 20s, and those memories and experiences. are precious to me. But we got to the point where we in a way, outgrew each other. Compatibility and all that. At that point I was on my way out of the church anyway. Honestly, I've seen how the gender roles hurt both me AND him. Definitely more obvious with women sometimes, but men too. He didn't get to explore parts of himself, even more basic things like gender expression, until he eventually left too, and I think he probably still has a rough time with it. But we're both healing, on our own journeys. ❤ And honestly, I am so much happier just being myself than trying to fit the standard mold. I didn't even know I could do anything other than some education and then being a mother, because it was just never an option. (Just like liking girls was never an option...I didn't realize I wasn't straight until I finally let my brain consider that that could be an acceptable option for me haha. 😅 Or, even just an option at all.)
Anyway, I agree with a part 2!! And thanks for your comment ❤❤ (:
i am a man. i would not have gotten married if i was not a mormon.
probably i would have had a lot of sex drugs and rock and roll. that much i'm not absolutely sure about. but for sure i would not have gotten married .
as it is, when i quit the church, my wife divorced me and destroyed my family.
i have lived a quiet single life for quite awhile. i am stress free and i know that no one else can make me happy. i make myself happy. that's my job. it's not someone else's job.
mormonism was a lot of dead weight, and a lot of guilt about stupid stuff. doing genealogy, doing home teaching, attending meetings, paying tithing, attending temple. they really keep you spinning your wheels going nowhere fast.
it's so much better out of the mormon church than in it.
@@longnamenocansayy I'm so happy you've found peace. The idea that young people should have early marriage and children is so disappointing. I often wonder how many young people had possible careers destroyed by taking 2 years out of their lives to serve a mission. Promising sports stars, entertainers, industry leaders, taken out of education, participation, advancement, thus falling behind others at their prime. The sheer selfishness of the corporation, which also owns a church, is breathtaking.
These days everybody has access to the internet. That allows potential converts to check out the organisation, and dodge a bullet. The church is haemorrhaging members. It is fast shrinking around the world. This gives the authorities very little time to stop the ship from sinking deep into the ocean.
They were warned, but did not heed whe warning.
That's something I fear with my hobbies. On one hand they are all traditional homemaker skills - almost at a grandma level - sewing, crochet, baking, and to an extent deep cleaning. On the other hand I have a few nice memories of cleaning up after family gatherings with 3-4 generations of women, or talking to grandparents about these hobbies. The third hand, is the thought of this can also just be seen as another job, and in the case of that one fond memory of cleaning with 3-4 generatiosn of women all of the men and young children were able to take a break and not work. They were able to sit in the other room or play outside in the light snowfall.
So I understand where you are coming from completely
HAWELALEWYAA. I have to agree!
The Mormon church equates greed. There’s no need to have tithing at this point.
My biggest problem is the 1% they spend on charity but I'm required to give 10% and all my time in callings and cleaning the church and all the times I'm asked to serve others with no compensation but if I need help from the church I'm made to feel guilty. The I'm asked it I'm honest in my dealings But They can make lots of shell companies their wealth. That bugs me today but I keep learning more and being more angry.
I’m a former Methodist. Now agnostic. I find your videos very interesting.
Definitely do a part 2! I’m angry that the church demands honesty and integrity from members while their actions are the exact opposite.
the mormon church lies, has always lied, and teaches the members how to lie. that's like a super pisser.
for example, joseph smith wrote in the d&c that the mormons believe in having only one wife. he wrote that when he already had a whole bag full other women.
they tell the members to say we do not practice polygamy anymore, when someone asks. that's a 100% bare faced lie. my father was married in the mesa arizona temple to a woman, after my mother died.
that means the mormons believe they are practicing polygamy at this time.
and the mountain meadows massacre, which they lied about, and which they contnue to lie about is another good example. of course brigham young ordered it. john d lee said so in his book.
john d lee was the fall guy. he was a church assassin all the way from joseph smith in nauvoo.
so yeah. the mormon church lies has lied and teaches it's members to lie.
i'm so glad i'm out of the cult
I felt very depressed going to the church all my life, and getting married, just felt like my life was not always good enough for GOD! They put the blame game on us that we must repent and be good all that stuff. When I left the church: I WAS FREE, my family was free and no more being depressed, no more being controlled in a CULT! I'm free living my life and my family is free!
When I think of the decades I gave to the cult, and the fact that I raised my children in what turned out to be a lie, that's what makes me angry. Thank goodness they're all out now!
Reasons I’m (still) angry: the blatant hypocrisy, for thee and not me, the constant “othering” of anyone/anything that they don’t like/can’t explain, and the lies surrounding JS (ie the Disney version being taught).
I have a really hard time not feeling dumb for not seeing it and leaving earlier. I was so close to being out for so long until I actually read the CES letter.
My partner tends to talk about it like it's a fun, quirky fact about me, when it actually is tied to a lot of trauma and makes me feel stupid for not leaving earlier in life.
Same here, I felt this, on a very deep level.
I think we've all terminally lost IQ points for going along with the cult for as long as we did.
I totally understand the feeling. It's important to remember that the church has had almost two hundred years to refine their message to be as effective at deceiving people as possible. There's no shame in being deceived when people who should have been trustworthy turned out to be dishonest. The fault is theirs, not ours.
It wasn't just your religion. It was your friends and family, your life. That is hard to change.
I agree with you!
When I was full believing member, I swore I wasn't judgmental. After leaving and being on the other side of the judgments, I clearly see how judgmental I really was, even if it was unintentional. I was just being obedient to what I was taught
I was told by my bishop my depression was because I must have comited a terrible sin to feel this way. My husband was so controling and mentaly abusive. The bishop accused me of lying. He knew my husband would not do something like that.Then when it got around the church (gossip) I was shuned. He said it was all my fault.I was never got any help from the church. And that was just the tip of the iceberg.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I hope that you are doing better now.
I frequently get ads from the Church before watching your videos. How ironic...
I am a never Mormon, but did come out of a “high demand religious organization” because of the pastor. Your content helps me understand and have empathy for Mormons still in the church.
I have tons of empathy and love for the LDS as well even though I’ve never been one either.
It’s not a church, it’s a cult
NeverMo here. I find that the “standards” that most Mormons keep citing have to do with “modesty”/purity culture, abstaining from alcohol/tobacco/caffeine/party drugs, and showing up at church. These are such superficial things, and hardly fit my criteria for “standards.”
What i hate is how they try to come for your kids.
There is definitely a lot of judgemental people within the Mormon Church. And gossip and assumptions..🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♂️ I couldn’t stand that. I also can’t stand the “worthiness interviews.”
It was two bishops for me. The second one was it. I went to the stake president over the events. He sent me back to the bishop. He threw it in my face. I had no place to go. That's it!!!! I feel the church left me
Good stuff, Lex. Hardest part for me is that my parents and siblings are so absolutely certain that I am wrong, and they feel it’s ok to say church-promoting things to me, but I wouldn’t dare say anything unfavourable about the church to them as that would get a bad reaction.
Ugh! I feel you! My mom sends me articles and videos and Mormon propaganda, but I would never in a million YEARS send her anything non-faith-promoting. Partly because it would never get through, but mostly because I know she's not interested! It's sad to feel like your thoughts and feels just aren't respected AT ALL. 😞
HAWELALEWYAA. I have to agree with you!
I’m a former evangelical and I had a lot of wonderful Mormon friends in high school and college who took me under their wing and were a lot kinder to me than my own church peers. They really wanted me to be Mormon, but I was very staunch in my own faith. I have since evolved and believe in a lot more inclusive, loving God who doesn’t judge, but just loves people. I’m fascinated by your story, Mormonism, and the stories of other ex-Mormons, and I see a lot of parallels with the high-demand religion that I walked away from. Thank you for sharing!
Commenting as requested! Oddly, I have no direct connection to the LDS church, but I've undergone my own deconstruction from a protestant upbringing, and, having been a lifelong David Archuleta fan, the LDS church was basically a special interest of mine for years. I'm so proud of him for stepping away, and also learned his mom recently left the church as well. She made a long (public) Facebook post about it, which really moved me.
Love your videos!
From the time I was in elementary school I never had a good feeling when in church. This feeling worsened the older I got, to the point I would be in tears every time I attended church. I had a very controlling mother that told me I had to take my two sons to church, they absolutely hated it. We finally quit going and the day I received my letter from the church saying my request to have my name taken off the rolls was like a big burden had been lifted from me. What a relief, I’ve never been happier and never looked back. By the way, I was molested by two different stake presidents, once in elementary, twice in 9th grade-this jerk was my dentist. I didn’t tell anyone about either of these, this was in the 50s and the 60s before children had rights.
I’m so sorry this happened to you. I hope you are doing better now and have been able to find some form of peace.
I’m so sorry that happened to you… I wasn’t sexually abused by the church but I was a victim of discriminated by it.
I hate the Mormon church so much that I never thought I could hate something that much
i talked to a girl who had been molested by the bishop. she also was in self imposed silence because the bishop was her uncle.
i firmly believe her. i'm sure a lot of girls/women live in self imposed silence after being molested.
and it's so sad, because they want to talk to someone. they want to talk it out. but they can't. it would hurt too many people, and what's worse, people would say they're lying.
Boy, oh boy…
Great video! For me the most upsetting thing, you kind of spoke on, it's whenever the church or members gaslight me about what I KNOW I was taught. I'm openly gay now, but my whole life and most of my 20s, the church always taught me I was an apostate and it didn't matter if I DIDN'T act on my desires, cause the church ALSO taught me that impure thoughts are the same thing as committing the acts. So I left for that, the tithing, and the leadership, but anytime I'd tell a member friend, they'd say to me, "What? The church never said you were unwelcome or that you were an apostate. You must have not been paying attention." And that infuriates me more than anything.
Growing up as a girl in the church, I was taught to put everyone else above myself. If I was depressed, upset, angry? I was told to go serve someone else to help put my life in perspective. This left me feeling like I couldn’t stand up for myself, and I acted like a doormat for way too long. Even now, having been out for several years, I sometimes find myself allowing people to take advantage of me because they need it more or something. It’s insidious and seems so wholesome on the surface. 😢
It's the equivalent of working for a corporation and never getting a pay-check. Now who wouldn't be angry about that?
I’m an ex Mormon. I left when I was 18 however I was mentally out since I was like 12 I never liked church I never liked how the people at church treated other people or outsiders I always thought “there’s no way this is the true church no way would god the creator of all things be okay with his true. Church treating people like this” when I turned 18 I was finally able to leave and until recently I never cared to look into church history but now that I have I can’t ever get over all of the things that I’ve found. I really enjoy watching your videos because it’s like having a friend to talk to about all the shit 😂
I personally can't abide the weaponization of fear, guilt, and shame. To this day when my very Mormon mom or sister try to guilt me into something I do the exact opposite.
Good for you Lexi. I appreciate your insight and honesty. I'm watching until the end! :-D.
Thank you!!
Definitely do a part 2! It's definitely good for people to see why people leave and are angry. To be honest I feel like it's pretty obvious if you were lied to about the biggest thing in your life that you'd be upset and feel betrayed!
I'd love to see a Part 2!! I struggle putting words to my emotions/experiences, which is why I love your videos even more. You always do a fabulous job explaining and articulating every topic you post about.
That means so much to me, thank you ♥️♥️
It's been 4 years since I stopped attending church, and I didn't even get ordained with the melchiazedic priesthood, and I'm still bitter
I stopped attending after only 16 months and never got endowed and I’m bitter. Not necessarily because of the church but how I was treated as a 43 year old single man. I was basically invisible to the sisters because they felt I wasn’t worthy of their time.
Oh my god, you bringing up your Bishop reminded me of a question I asked my mama one time. I asked her what if the prophet did something bad or attempted to led they church to bad paths. She snapped back a little defensive like oh he wouldn’t do that. God wouldn’t do that. We don’t need to worry about that. I was like but what if? An she just kept saying that same thing oh he wouldn’t do that!
I always enjoy your videos. You're articulate and charming-- a talented presenter, in other words, and your topic is interesting to me, as a member of a "part member" family. Now I'm dying to know what you might have said to alienate The Algorithm (the Bishop's Court of the UA-cam world). I'll be sure to hit "like" every time for a while. (I always listen to the end.) Maybe if all of us pay a little more attention to the behaviors that impress The Algorithm, we can help you redeem yourself. :)
LOL
Love your videos so much. I am a regular listener to MSF, RFM, Mormon Discussions and Nemo. Al of their content has been very helpful. Your channel unique and to me has been so helpful. Some of you earlier content discusses the "whys" of leaving mormonism, but you address more of the "How to" leave with ones dignity and self respect intact. I am especially grateful to you for your takes on:
1. "How to order a coffee, (without looking like a total dips#i+)
2. How to enjoy family gatherings without comparing current callings or last week's high councilor talk.
3. Handling conversations with family and friends who constantly bring up ward crap.
4. How to enjoy life with healthy boundaries.
5. How to have/keep friends without fellowshipping them.
6. How to make friends that are not already assigned to you as home/visiting teachers.
7. How to express gratitude for being in the moment, rather than hoping for something better in the next life.
8. How to attend church events (i.e. baptisms, farewells, funerals) with reasonable, healthy expectations. and without guilt
9. How to respond to attempts of shame from friends/family/others
10. How to be a great parent without giving constant credit to the church.
11. How to order a cocktail
12. How to order a beer.
13. My list goes on and on. Thank you for every topic you cover.
@Exmo Lex, love the topic! It applies to many things, I compare it to leaving a political organization I was active in but started having more and more disagreements with... as I started to re-examine my beliefs I realized in my heart I could no longer be a part of it.
While that is not the same as religious deconstruction, it has had many of the same effects...
Thank you for all you do. I’m still RELATIVELY recent out of the church, but when I very first left your videos were insanely comforting to me. They still are, and very informative, but they really meant that extra something when I was first out and terrified.
I grew up in Idaho and the judgement in school is so bad! I swore my kids would never go to school in Idaho.
There are many things that make me feel angry. I think my biggest thing is the amount of money that the church has, yet they are still demanding tithing as a commandment. We are struggling financially and have a lot of medical bills. My husband still faithfully pays 10% of our income every month, even though he knows I am against it. I have even had to put off medical procedures that would help me have a higher quality of life, because we don't have the money to pay for these procedures. It angers me that my husband is so brainwashed that he thinks a multi-million dollar corporation needs our money more than I do.
Another thing that bothers me is how children in the church behave. I know kids will be kids. I love children. It just seems like parents don't encourage their children to behave at church or at youth activities anymore. It's a chaotic free-for-all. My son was building something at a young men's activity and all the other boys decided to kick a soccer ball around the gym instead of participating in the planned activity. Inevitably, the soccer ball bounced off the wall and crushed my son's project. Parents allow their kids to bring sports balls to activity and see them playing soccer instead of doing the planned activity. I feel this is disrespectful to the leaders that plan the activities and to the youth that want to participate in the planned activity. We have a running joke now, "Did a ball game break out in the middle of youe activity tonight?"
When my oldest child was in Primary, all the kids in her class were so misbehaved and rude, it was impossible to get a teacher to take that class. One time, all the boys in her class were so naughty, they brought the bishop's wife to tears. The lack of respect children in the church have for teachers and fellow students is disgusting.
I feel like there is this weird trend in parenting where parents want harsh discipline for all kids but their own. And it makes these kids think that they can do all that stuff and it is OK because they are not bad kids.
I attribute it partially to the whole "guns don't kill people" mentality.
"A weapon is only bad if a bad person uses it. I am not a bad person so what I am doing isn't bad!"
My theory is the kids are acting out their parents' subconscious rebellion. It's still sad, for everyone.
Mostly angry toward their anti-LGBT beliefs. When I came out as trans on Facebook, my bishop messaged me saying, "[dead name], I understand you're going through a lot. You're always welcome at church." Or something like that. This was like seven years ago. Kinda wish I didn't delete the message so I can say exactly what he said. It was significantly longer than what I said.
Thank you for your kind and insightful videos. We aren’t Mormons but used to live in Idaho and had Mormon friends.
I find it so interesting and telling how many exmos get tattoos and piercings! It tells us how normal this is for humankind. How can it be considered sinful? Tattoos and piercings make a person truly unique and beautiful.
I was angry and bitter because I watched leadership destroy a teen girl's life when she was sa at a party by drunk mormon boys....because she was drunk also so was at fault and they weren't.
And when I tried to get help for the mental abuse my parents were perpetrating on me I was told that it's impossible for mormon parents to be abusive so I must be the crazy one and making it all up.
So yeah bitter. People online will say that this was just one bad bishop but it wasn't. It was across wards, multiple adults.
The mormon church is built on the pain and suffering of young girls. And the worst abusers are the adult women who know this but ignore it for the headpats.
I asked a lot of questions as a child. I also didn’t fit the mold they shove girls into. Good and decent people don’t gossip about, lie on purpose to, or psychologically manipulate children.
This one is hard to explain but when I was in it I never “fit in” I was always the odd girl I never ever did anything wrong I just didn’t fit in, probably due to my ADHD and possible autism. They are seriously ableist. But still it was my community and everything I knew about making friends was within the church. I lived outside of the Utah bubble so I could’ve easily had a community outside of the church but they took that from me through fear manipulation.
THANK YOU! Part 2, and 3 and 4, would be greatly appreciated!! I have a very old Brother coming back with his Wife from a foreign Mission. I'm afraid he will ask probing questions as to why I'm no longer a believer. He won't like the answers. I'm afraid it will be very unpleasant. Unfortunately I don't think we can just talk sports for 3 hours.
I have a long and complex history with the church. When I was a Deacon my Bishop asked me if I had sex with my mother. Much later in life I talked to Mom about it and we agreed he was just trying to find out if she would have sex with him. Later a different Bishop outed me during a yearly interview and at the time I did not even know what a Homosexual was. When my mother passed they managed to drag me back to church for 3 years. My local ward financially helped me keep things together, but I finally managed to pull away again. The nail in the coffin was I was having heart issues and when I finally went in to get things fixed I mentioned it to everyone. I told the Bishop with his wife standing next to him in Walmart that they were going to fix my heart in 4 days and that I would be home the next day. He said, Congratulations. They never contacted me. Never called to see how I was doing. No meals. No nothing. The only hell is earth
Why on earth would your Bishop think that you were diddling your mother?
@@mylesmarkson1686 His own wife had so many babies the last one almost killed her. My mother told me that she knew at least one other woman he kept hitting on. He was not getting enough sex at home and wanted to find more females
@@kimopuppy So you're saying that he was such a horn-dog that he figured everybody else was just as bad as he was, and so therefore why NOT diddle your own mother?
That Mormon love of passive aggressiveness infuriates me to no end💀🖤
This could easily be a whole series, since there are so many stories of leaving or losing religion.
Yeah. You keep on nailing it. That church’s moral compass is broken. The church could cut a baby in half, and tell you it’s wrong to criticize a prophet, even if that criticism is true. The church tramples a lot of people on its way to not helping the poor and needy. That compass is not only broken, it’s BUSTED. Maybe they can sell it to Grand Theft Auto. Proceeds won’t be taxed. OMG we are so groomed ❤❤❤
I left out the root cause of my rage, probably because I try to forget it most of the time. My brother suffered a mental collapse while in church service. He was found in a field having tried to cut off his testicles. His breakdown had other causes, but it was more than partly aggravated by guilt from being exposed to Boyd K. Pecker's teachings on masturbation. Hardline Mormons are in the business of murdering souls. Moderate Mormons go along, lah-ti-dah, letting them get away with it. How should I NOT be angry?
I enjoy deconstructing videos, especially those made by women. Keep the faith…that you are enough and you are worthy!
How they say women are so important but keep treating us as secondary citizens. It’s all talk. It pisses me off.
As a nevermo who works with faithful LDS, I often get the impression that they would like me more if I was LDS, too. Or that they can't believe I am good and nice despite not being one of them. I hate feeling judged constantly, Even my boss shows preference for LDS coworkers. I'm so sick of living in Utah!
It's something else, isn't it? You're observing the mechinations of a cult right before your eyes with these people.
Yes please, part 2! I'm still bitter about the church scapegoating my community (LGBTQIA+) cause they can't figure out how to function without othering some group. 😕
I left the church 20 years ago not because I "wanted to sin" but because I wanted to be a better person. I saw myself as following through with the good things I had learned from the church. I have often thought that I had left the church because I took it seriously and that people only stayed because they weren't really trying. The church taught me to value the truth and to value morality. Because I did value these things, I had to leave.
At the age of 15, after realizing I was gay, I was already committing myself to a life of celibacy. It took a few years to realize that faith isn't a means of obtaining knowledge. The existence of faith-based beliefs outside of the church is what really drew me out of it. I wanted to be sure I was really doing the right thing. What if, contrary to what the church told me, having a family actually was the right thing for me to do? I had to find out.
I myself was victimized by the church, I was a victim of discrimination… words cannot describe how much I hate the LDS religion! There’s nothing I want more than to destroy this cult and see it fall. But all we can do is get our stories out there and expose it for the fraud it really is
I’m sorry that your childhood made you think that you are gay.
Jesus still loves you even if you aren’t reciprocating it at the moment.
@@timt4715 uh… I don’t think he’s gonna take kindly to that
@@nsasupporter7557 I’m not in the business of affirmation of delusion.
I’m here to help.
Thank you for all your work explaining what the Mormon cult is really like.
I think your videos SHOULD be longer! 15-17 minutes is not enough gurl!😊
But then some people complain if they’re longer than 20 minutes 😭😂
Oh mannnn😭 I could seriously listen to a much longer version and be happy! I'd love to hear more if your stories of your experiences. Like v what's a typical church service like? What are you expected to wear?. How are you expected to act? What are the other people like? I could go on and on with my curiosity, lol!
I feel the same as you .50 years of lies
Comment for the algorithm! I love your content and commentary, thanks! ❤
I just had a conversation today on the phone with a friend who is an active Mormon. I'm "inactive" now and no longer believing. I explained where I was at, and my friend asked, "Are you happy?" When I told him I genuinely was, he didn't show any support or happiness for me at all. That was the part of the conversation that hurt the most.
Omg how sad. How did we ever think these people were our friends?
He’s probably processing: how can you be happy when he’s been taught the only happiness comes from
being in the church?
supporting you with a comment so that your channel gets out there more. sending you love & support
Yeah, it's frustrating how they treat me one way when they think I'm a member and then when they discover I'm not. Lol!
I'm not exmo, but I've always appreciated your videos! I used to be SBC. And I was actually fortunate to have been in a very "unculty" church at that time. Mostly, I was given intellectual freedom and encouraged to explore how science agrees with those beliefs. Even became a hobbyist apologetic for quite a few years. But slowly, I started realizing how things just weren't adding up. Once I completely gave it up, a whole world opened up that I had felt too guilty to explore before. I'm just glad you got out of it and are telling people about your experience and that it's ok to not be religious.
The truth never has to be defended !!! Lds people constantly defend the church and its actions....regardless of how harmful and damaging they are...
You mentioned about the age gap of people's knowledge of church doctrine, a lot of things that you were shocked to hear, I learned in Seminary in the 70's, I just assumed everyone knew the same information because they were in the church. And then things change, like when you give a blessing to the sick, a lot of people used to say, 'You will be healed' now people just say, 'If it is the lords will'. Please do a part 2, it is interesting learning about other people's perceptions because everybody was in a different ward, state, country, etc.
For me, it was the expectations. Primarily being raised AFAB and being expected to be a wife and mother, and when I figured out that I don’t want either of those things, I’d be told, “well, you don’t have to get married,” and I’d go, “then what’s the other option?” Crickets.
But even beyond that, I remember talking to my Young Womens leader when I was probably about 13 or 14 about how my favorite author teaches creative writing at BYU, and she said something along the lines of, “oh, maybe you can take his class *when* you go there.” I’ve never wanted nor planned to go to BYU, and I certainly never told her I did; she just assumed that that was where I was going to go to college, because that’s where the good Mormon kids go
I was angry and bitter because I lost my friends, family and community. Then members didn’t want their children to play with mine because they aren’t Mormon.
Never was LDS, but have been watching you since your content in the minivan lol. Very valuable and insightful info and stories!
I was JUST talking to my therapist abt this, how I feel like I’m sliding backwards in my attitude toward Mormons/Mormonism (going back to being really angry when I haven’t been in a while) and we figured out that the reason I’m still SO angry w/ Mormons and Mormonism as a whole is bc I’m angry that Mormons get what they think are reassurances of their beliefs, and basically they have a safety net in their concept of an afterlife. I don’t want to be Mormon, I’m v glad that I’m not Mormon, but it feels v unfair that I’m afraid of death bc I don’t believe in anything after, and also that they get what they think is god helping or talking to them in a comforting way and I never did. Idk if I’m explaining this v well, but basically, I’m kinda mad that they get comfort in their religion and I don’t get any in my lack of one, if that makes sense. Anyway, great and v important video! Always happy to help out the channel in any way I can 🥰
Gray Lewis,
May I recommend you a book called “Awareness” by Anthony De Mello. He was a therapist and his books show that we suffer because we want to, something he calls “selfish charity”, and teaches people are lost in our ideals and minds. He mentions the danger of religion even.
The thing that pissed me off most about the church is how, when we were kids, we were taught that we are special and unique and given a singular combination of gifts and talents to help us complete our earthly mission. But the older I got, the more pressure I felt to conform, to behave like everyone else and to live a one-size-fits-all kind of life.
if you grow up in the church you're told a bunch crap that goes right to your ego. they really believe they live a life in living color but everyone else in the world is still in black and white.
It's like there are two options. Be a clone or a clown. I left 25 years ago. My parents still haven't accepted it.
I honestly appreciate the way you do your videos. I know everyone has a journey that's theirs and no one else's. I've been in the Church, completely out of the Church, had my name removed, then came back to it. I know how frustrating it can be dealing with the members who are jerks. If someone leaves and no longer believes in God, still believes in God, somewhere in between. All of that is a valid response. The Church needs to stop protecting predators and start reporting CA. What most members can't do as far as the scriptures go is differentiate between the Jews and Gentiles, replacement theology is really common. That might be a good video idea on the replacement theology in the Church.
This is my UA-cam engagement comment, my next comment will have substance.
I feel angry that it's created a wedge between me and my family. I feel angry about how it robs their time, money and energy, leaving little for family, friends and outside interests
I was furious for weeks at a used car salesmen that screwed me over on something somewhat inconsequential. Imagine being lied to about who you are.
I can’t wait till I start doing videos like this myself! Thank you for the inspiration, Exmo Lex
Definitely voting for a Part 2! And what bothers me most is the contradiction: Family is so important! But you'll never have enough time to actually spend with them between activities and callings because the Church IS your whole life. 🙄 I can't count the number of times my brother's family didn't attend a reunion, or my parents couldn't visit, or something had to be postponed because of CHURCH activities and I want to tear my hair out in frustration at the overwhelming hypocrisy of it all.
I hate the one time eternal name. You don’t get a second chance. Seriously. Nimrod.
I’m a no mo, it really helps me put things into perspective hearing your point of view.
Mindfulness has been a huge thing in my life to help me after leaving. I have enjoyed books by Jon Kabat-Zinn on the topic. There is a lot of scientific research on MBSR (mindfulness based stress reduction) and the data shows that there is benefit to incorporating mindfulness practices into daily life. But I especially agree with your statement that you should take what works and leave what doesn't.
Jon K-Z's videos got me thru cancer and help me find peace of mind every day.
Some mindfulness books are amazing and some are… not so much. Haha!
@@ExmoLex For sure! The Mindful Movement is very good...
Excellent, I can relate to so many of those. Great points and commentary!!
This isn't the most disliked thing but it is a pet peeve: the hushed voices people use when discussing church doctrine. It gets under my skin and I want to say, "Talk in your normal voice!"
They're just trying to be spiritchal!
One thing that's been hard since leaving is not feeling like you can share any struggle or hard time without them taking it as a sign they're right.
"See? You wouldn't be struggling if you came back to the church."
"If only you prayed it would all fix itself"
It's so condescending. Like my problems are so easy to fix and I'm just too stupid and prideful to do so.
Not to mention the very few times I’ve actually opened up to my family about my religious trauma, their immediate response is “that’s not the church’s fault, you just FELT like it was.” Like… oh my god. I can’t even begin to unpack all that.
Right! In reality, literally everyone struggles with something, sometime in their life. I'm so glad that I know this fun fact now, and that my ease and comfort in life is no longer tied to my attempts at "goodness" or trying to please a fickle Mormon God.
@@fluffyphoenix8082 it's never the church's fault! That's the Joseph Smith treasure hunt for you. If you don't get the treasure (blessings), it's not the scryer's (church's) fault, it's the fault of the one seeking after it. It will ALWAYS be something you did that will keep you from the treasure. The secret they don't want you to know is there was never any treasure to begin with other than what you bring and find within yourself, and you don't need their services to find that treasure!
YES!!! I had a breast cancer scare (I’m fine btw) literally 3 weeks after leaving and I was too scared to tell anyone local because I didn’t want to hear that specific judgement!
The anger, over time, subsides until you see how the church continues to do harm to people and those you love. 😡
Yes thank you! I was harmed by the church, it’s a cult… not a church, by the way. There’s nothing I want more than to destroy it and see it fall.
But the best we can do is to share our stories and expose it for the fraud it really is
**Boosting and watching**
Stop having kids folks! Spare them all the pain & suffering in this cruel world we live in! We don’t have the moral right to inflict serious, preventable harms upon our children without their consent! Existence brings guaranteed harm & is imposed without consent. Because a child cannot consent to being born, the default should be to assume that consent doesn’t exist and that no action should be taken on the child’s behalf. Just like how it’s not okay to rape an unconscious person just because they can’t say no to sex! Stop creating needs for no need while violating your children’s rights to eternal peace & freedom!! Since eternal peace & freedom are only possible through non-existence, every human being has the right to NOT be born unless they provide explicit consent to being born after agreeing to & understanding all the “terms and conditions” of life. Otherwise, bringing your child into this world without their consent is a violation of their autonomy followed by guaranteed suffering that they never asked for! You can’t obtain consent from the unborn child because they don’t exist yet, therefore you don’t have the right to act on their behalf unless your action will prevent an even greater harm, like pushing someone out of the way of a falling piano-assuming they were unaware, couldn’t react in time, & wanted to keep living. Point is, you don’t have consent unless you explicitly obtain it, which cannot be done in the case of procreation, therefore procreation is ALWAYS morally wrong and cannot be ethically justified. Think about it for a moment, most people would be outraged if I, unannounced, ordered for them at a restaurant and forced them to eat that food - rather than they decide for themselves. But somehow, creating someone else to suffer and die is a decision you're allowed to make for someone else?
Says the person who is enjoying the life their parents conceived. Sorry, but I can't take you seriously.
Life doesn't care about anyone's morals, morals are man-made, life's mandate is to continue, it's written into the genome of every creature and plant to regenerate. Personally, I think it would be an immoral act against nature and life itself to try and prevent it!
If you have the structural and financial means to give your kid the best chance in this world, then I don't think it is immoral to procreate.
While they will undoubtedly experience suffering, they will also undoubtedly experience well being if you are a truly loving parent.
I love your perspective sm, thank you!
Honestly, it was the expectations for me. I never finished reading the Bible or the Book of Mormon, even though I was expected to. My family gradually stopped praying before meals, even though we were expected to. Even in my everyday life, it was always "I HAVE to be kind, HAVE to be humble, HAVE to follow the rules, HAVE to respect my parents," and I somehow believed that if I didn't do all these things, I would be a failure and a disgrace to my family and to Mormonism. If it wasn't for my dad, who grew up in Utah and experienced even more religious trauma, I would probably still be blindly following the "prophets" and becoming even more insecure.
I’m researching the folk magic and pagan traditions of my ancestors! I find so much freedom in a religious practice that honors those that came before me, and so aggressively stressed that above all else, you listen to what feels right to you.
I hate the forgiveness without boundaries argument.
Would love to see a part two!
Would love a part 2! I relate so much to all of these
Points of anger/bitterness for me:
1) the revisionist history surrounding Joseph Smith and the early teachings of the church (I've read B. H. Roberts' "Comprehensive History of the Church", and a great deal has been de-emphasized to keep face)
2) the overt racism in much of the church's doctrine, despite their modern public views (i.e., the doctrines are still valid as far as the church is concerned, even though PoCs can now hold the priesthood and receive temple ordinances; again, a face-saving move by the church to maintain its legitimacy after the Civil Rights Movement)
3) the blatant hypocrisy of a considerable segment of the church membership (I believe most at least try to be good people, but enough don't that it devalues the whole endeavor in my view)
4) the current treatment of the church and its members towards the LGBTQIA+ community
5) Tithes and donations (I was a financial clerk at one point, and have a good idea how much money goes through the system)
6) the mental, emotional and (in some cases) physical abuse and/or neglect endured by the full-time missionaries (a big one for me, having served a mission)
It’s frustrating when your Mormon parent is contributing you leaving church with “oh you are only leaving because the friends you made were trying to leaving” and “it’s because of all those videos you have been watching” as if you were brainwashed into leaving, instead of finally realizing you’ve been brainwashed since you were born (raised Mormon since very little). And when they insist “you used to love church”, and that “you believed in it”. It’s almost funny how a literal child will believe anything their parent tells them yet the parent doesn’t think of that.
How about an example of children believing in anything? Most children believe in a magical old man that spies on everyone and brings presents once a year if you’ve “been good”. (Any guesses? Yup, it’s old Saint Nick) and presents did appear, but not because of Santa, but the child wouldn’t know that. *So* it’s not too hard to believe that a child would also believe in a God with no questions asked.
I’ve been out of the church for a good 6 months now (even though I’ve wanted to be out for much longer). I’ve been able to block everyone who texts me they “miss me” yet know exactly where I live, yet never said hi or anything. Or the other fun part when they continuously try and drag you back to church when you have stated over and over that you don’t want to go. It’s freeing to be away from it all. The Mormon church really brought me down for many years.
They give two options be our clone or be our clown. I choose neither!
Members of my family who are still part of LDS Inc. essentially shunned me since I left...
Because I am struggling a lot more than they do (mental health issues, loneliness and financially) they use it as an excuse to say that I'm lonely and unhappy because I left the Church.
They do activities amongst themselves and leave me out while I actually live no more than 30 minutes from them by car...
So I guess the whole "family is important and sacred" part hold value only if you are in that cult...
This is what is really making me bitter, to feel like my family is dead and I'm an orphan because I left something in which I couldn't believe in anymore...
1. The ridiculous amount of passive aggressive behaviors in the culture.
I have considered starting my own channel at different times just to address the ways different active listening blocks and logical fallacies fall into the cliche TBM apologetics. Russell's Teapot is a Mormon favorite, as is the God of the gaps.
I most dislike the... I'll call it pseudo-hypocritical/gaslighty dishonesty? I don't know if that's even the right word(s). There needs to be a specific term for the logistical backflips church forces you into for maintaining the belief that you can somehow "love" trans people and gay people while denying a part of their humanity. You straight up can't do it. You can't love someone fully while simultaneously calling their identity a "lifestyle choice". You just can't do it. That's why I call it "gas-lighty". It makes you think you're crazy and goes contrary to reality. You feel the internal pain of not being allowed to love someone fully because of who they are... all the while, people tell you "no, you're doing the right thing by kicking out your kid because they're LGBTQ" or "no, not speaking to that gay friend you have until they stop living with their partner is the right thing". I need a word for that.
thank you for pointing out that it's okay to leave a church because you want to """sin"""! I left evangelical christianity largely because I'm a lesbian, and a lot of people would call that leaving the church to sin and there's not really anything i can do to change their minds??? and a lot of atheist and ex-mo speakers sorta brush off people who use that as a talking point by saying 'well i didn't leave to sin' and leaving it at that.. makes me feel sorta left behind and undefended a lot of the time
Thanks for making this video, Lex. You helped me to notice that a lot of the rage I felt towards the church has drained out, as I’ve healed the parts of myself that were still being influenced by the church’s dishonesty and abusive stewardship. It seems the healthier my own boundaries become, the less I need my anger to act as a defensive shield towards the church. Imagine that! 🤔
It’s not that I feel more accepting of the church. I want to be very clear about that. The church is fundamentally unhealthy for humans and actually occupies a space in opposition to its own declared principles and values. But, I just don’t feel as much overt, active anger towards it now, as I used to, and that’s a symptom of having healed my weak, fragile, diseased boundaries, which the church is very deliberately responsible for helping me to dissolve in the first place. Frankly, the healthier I become, the more irrelevant the church becomes. I realized, watching this video and noticing how little emotion I felt, how little the church is beginning to matter to me, personally, now. So, thanks again for that.😊
I still do get deeply angered by the church at times, though. Certain topics or situations will re-ignite the old wounds. Your video prompted me to ask myself, what really is at the core of this anger?
Power. The core issue is the power imbalance that the church deliberately maintains over members (and, in certain real ways, many former members).
They utilize a variety of tactics, from fear-rooted indoctrination, to gaslighting non-apologies for abusive behaviors, to thought-stopping, repetitive chanting, but the primary goal is to convince people to abandon their own power, their own sense of essential validity, goodness, authenticity and just…realness…their fundamental “I”, in favor of the power (“authority”) the church claims to hold. “Doubt your doubts” is really “doubt yourself”.
Power is not about power over anything or anyone. True power is being fully aware of the self, fully in love with the whole self, fully aligned and clear within. This is what enables a human to truly and deeply love. The church teaches exactly the opposite of this. The church teaches that power (“freedom from sin”) is ALL about power-over. The church teaches that empowerment is about domination; domination of yourself, of allowing “god” (and the church, as the representative of “god”) to dominate you. Only then goes the church teachings, can you truly love others.
It naturally follows that members, who’ve been taught to misunderstand and disrespect themselves this way, also misunderstand and disrespect other humans, and see nothing strange about manipulating them to get them into the church and keep them under the church’s control.
Actually, a lot of us did see something strange in manipulating and stalking others this way, which is why there’s such reluctance to do it, but due to this separation from, and mistrust of the self, we couldn’t “see” what we were seeing, so we were easy to convince that the problem was actually us, not the weird, unhealthy demand. But that’s a whole other discussion.
And that’s what truly makes me SO angry, because the power imbalance, the abusive demand to abandon our innate power, our innate inner wisdom and goodness, does SO much damage to peoples’ ability to be healthy, regulated, thriving humans in connection with themselves and with other humans. Multigenerationally, it really screws with the ability of developing humans to even lay down the basic wiring of that wisdom, in the first place, too. Grrrrr!
The part that makes me angriest is the church preying people who are suffering the most, those who may genuinely need help, physically or financially, and those who have lost love ones and offer false hope that you can see them again one day but only if you follow all our rules including paying us money. Seeing the recent financial scandals of the church come to light I can’t help but feel so much Schadenfreude!
Hello, just a lazy learner, here. I enjoy your content so much, Lex. ❤
I've been out of the church for some time. But, it still rips it off the bush, for me that I was made to feel guilt and shame from my abuser.
They were never held accountable for much, in my opinion.
The church made it worse for the victims, that's for damn sure.
Part 2, please.
Great video! I don't remember feeling angry or bitter when I left but my sweetheart wife who remains TBM tells me that I was. If I was, it didn't last long. But I was a late convert, joining at age of 25. To this day I have many great friends in the church. But I also consider the leadership to be mainly corrupt.