If you zoom in on a model, it doesn't look awful. It has all these little tiny features and good textures, even if proportions are skewed. But if you look at a model from 40 feet up and at a 55 degree angle, like you do when playing the actual game, it's some muddled shoulders and dull colors. It's an army of muddy shoulders and similar samey colors. They're fighting another army of muddy shoulders in different samey colors. Unless they're the same race. Then it's two armies of samey colors and muddy shoulders making a _Where's Waldo_ simulation.
The main reason models are hard to distinguish is because they don't have enough team color on top of them. Like grunt has tiny shoulder pad that is colored or footman's shield that is also colored but almost invisible from the top down perspective. So blue grunts and red grunts look green on the battlefield and footmen from different teams look grey because of armor color
Lemon Sky made the models, terrain and other art look like an eye candy which would be more appropriate for an art exhibition but not actual RTS game. It's as if none of the designers tested their work in actual match environment with big armies. They put a lot of work into it but never questioned their employer (Activision) and they only took commission and called it a day which is just sad.
I think each model in isolation is good. If you were control individual characters, it would be great. However the problem is all that detail actually makes the game harder to read. It didn’t need redone. It needed updating.
I was about to comment the same. With a zoom out, which in fact is a normal zoom in an RTS, those details get lost and you don't see model specific features, hence it is harder to read.
Those models are great. But only if they were used in cinematics or something. Outside that spectrum, gameplay wise its atrocious. It does give flashbacks of those heavily modified CGs that had everything thrown together with no art direction made by randomJoe67 in 2006.
I agree, the fidelity of the models are great, but the issue is readability and that they stray from the Blizzard aesthetics. The most important part of making units for a RTS is their silhouette, i.e. how they read. Additionally, they somehow made things more saturated than previously and it's harsh for the eyes to look at. Pre-reforge assets already had quite intense colors on them so not sure why they wanted to go further there.. I guess this is what happens when you outsource another studio to create almost all models for a game with the addition of a lacking direction from a producer/director at Blizzard.
Exactly this! What's so hard about taking an old model and building the new one over it? Just add a few hundred more poligons, update the textures, maybe add some shaders and done.
When I saw the Alterac Valley humans, orcs and elves come out in HOTS I was so excited for Reforged. That is what Reforged needed to be and I'm so sad it didn't end up that way.
man i am still bummed how different Anduin in WoW and HotS. HotS version of W3 stuff so much better there yet they sack that team and promote this abomination
They were too perfect to last forever. After WoWs success the great team that turned everything into gold got pushed out in favor of marketing and a quick buck. Steve Jobs talks about this happens to companies pretty succinctly
@@daddyfuse50 Chinese ties did it. WoW is HUGE in China, majority of their player-base anything Warcraft is there. Instead of having Samwise Didier (the legend who gave us that warcraft aesthetic) was not part of reforged at all. Instead it was outsourced to some Malaysian studio.
@@ZahhibbDev Yep, they were probably just part of some deal or bid. Still, they didn't have to stick to their run off the mill art-style that's prevalent on a lot of asian made video-games. Reforged 100% look like a typical chinese game.
The graphics designers for reforged really forgot the most important aspect of graphical design for a real-time game: Making each unit stand out so they can be easily differentiated. So hard to see which unit is which, and there's not enough colour contrast between the ground and the units. All just belnds into an unrecognizable mash.
The ground and trees textures are too sharp and acid-colored.. And I am absolutely certain that there was no such purple trees in original WC3 at all (quickly checked in world editor, there aren't purple trees on any of the landscapes). And yes, I still have original WC3 installed. Units look fine on their own, but together as a group/army unreadable.. Personally most of the time I cannot easily identify specific unit in combat, same with buildings actually.
the w3 reforged is a clear example that more sometimes can be less. the most important thing when you play a game is to identify at a glance what's happening on the screen. The way the new models and textures are implemented just blend everything together turning the game into a clusterfudge.
I remember old good times when I was playing as undrad and I had my level 36 solo about 12 years ago...this was the first video on reforged graphics and I started to cry...(I,m 31 years old now) like a little child... They destroyed my favourite game and I will not show this to my son...I can't find more words to describe this... Keep up streaming with classic graphic(we are all watching) Cheers from Sweden Cheers from
They do allow you to play with old graphics, but the game still isn't quite the same. The old channel system w/bots and clans was so much better. It's still decent and I play it sometimes, but not what it was.
Unit design needs a clarity pass. The color balance is weird. I think the saturation is fine on everything, WC3 original is pretty colorful like that too, but the problem I think is that it still somehow feels to dull and dark, like their brightness values are all off or something. I can't quite articulate what it is, but colors in WC3 pop and it feels like a moving comic book, and Reforged seems flat and claylike for some reason. I would say I don't hate Reforged style, it has potential, but it needs a lot of work still.
Yeah it's definitely too dark and murky. It is - in fact - rushed and the designers / artists were not as talented as the ones who created WC3, and they also didn't love or understand the game itself, in my opinion.
It's how light and colour work, they overly detailed them so they have a lot of stuff, contrast is low, shadows lack intensity and they're too small (accurate model scale), zoom in and models will be beautiful and detailed, like the portraits, zoom out and they become a messy and floaty grey blur.
I fully understand that competetive players do not like the new graphics - I absolutely see that they make the game harder to read, not only because it's not what you're used to, but also because the textures just aren't as clear visually as they are with classic graphics. However, as a very casual player that enjoys the odd run of the campaign, I always enjoyed the new graphics. With the campaign being fairly easy and chill for the most part, I don't particularly mind that I lose a little bit of that edge through the graphics, and simply enjoy looking at a more modern interpretation of Blizzard's tried and true comic look. Now if the campaign were bug free 3 years after release, I legit would have no reason to complain about Reforged.
It's colourful. And some of the animations are nice e.g. spirit link, TP, tome usage, etc. But I just can't get over the weird proportions. There's not a clear distinction between units like in classic. And the buildings are so bad. Burrow and barracks are so similar. 😂 Plus some of those new voices. 😂
It does, I like some of the terrain way better than the units and (especially) buildings, I grew up playing W2 and W3, some terrains imo look closer to W2 if it was a new game
I legit like the Reforged graphics, they look good. The issue though is visual fidelity to me and I think if we're being objective most would agree. With classic graphics we're used to things like Heroes being notably larger than units, creeps having significant differences in size and color based on level and just more distinction on the units themselves (i.e. Grunts in classic were larger their colors vivid. In Reforged the models are smaller and that single shoulder guard doesn't stand out so much anymore; so in Orc vs Orc I can see how it would be easier to lose track of your grunts in theirs.) With Reforged they went for more...realistic...for lack of a better term visuals, and while it's nice; it actually takes away from being able to make quick decisions from visual indicators which for an RTS is a detriment. Break the realism up a little, make some color code changes and increase the overall size of a few units and we're on a better track. Two things no one can argue with though 1) The New Paladin model is atrocious and needs to go away. 2) The reforged Shadow Hunter model is amazing.
you forgot death knight model... at least 5 people had to give that model a pass to make it to release. industry professionals from 2-3 different companies
Hey all. My 2 cents: The graphics are, for the most part, well made. Sure, some are bad, like the archer and PotM. Overall, on a strictly graphics based decision 7/10. However, as most know from a competitive play perspective, it's very difficult to distinguish the units classic RTS styling would make the units visually distinguishable so micro management in combat pre/post can occur. This is where IMO reforge fell short.
As a non serious rts player all i like is making cool armies and seeing them fight, that being said everything was so hard to read, it looked like a blurry mess of meaningless details
It looks like the environment has less detail than the units/buildings whereas with the older graphics the reverse seems true. If they spend some more time detailing out the environment maybe that would help tie the visuals together in a better way
lol they cant even level the buildings because there were too lazy to make more than one building design it works with the cartoony but not with the realistic one
they are, what style are you talking about, its the same style, you dont know what your talking about, you can go right now to the old wc3 and see the difference, portraits dont matter.@@crepooscul
You might think that's a great idea but the environment being more detailed/as detailed as the units would be even worse for visibility-- making the units blend in even more with the environment. The first thing they have done is make the units not so busy-looking and make their colors more vibrant than the environment.
in old wc3, many creeps have different shades of color to know the difference, for example, blue ogre is a magi, red is a brute, yellow is basic and armor is lord its much better to immediately know which unit it is on a first glance, reforged relies too much on detail
After I played with the new graphics for around 6 months I found it just as easy to read what was going on as classic. Not many people are willing to put in that time though.
@@invictus_trax6418 so it's been a month... re-read your comment. You were out here really taking a stance that a remaster of a game really shouldn't improve it in any meaningful way.
@@viortero9593 eh, I disagree, most animations are stiff, a lot of the modelling kinda just looks generic, there's plenty of skill involved just not a cohesive art direction. I think the perfect example is with the stronghold/fortress section. From a modellers perspective you'd think well you're upgrading a building so it should be some small differences and some polish, but within the context of warcraft these upgrades have always been a distinct thing. for new players going through the campaign, the first mission where you see an enemy with a t3 townhall is supposed to be an epic impactful mission, with many new units and a large capital, the aesthetic of a t3 is an important part of their impression... but when every unit and building doesn't have their design carry the importance of the units it just doesn't hit the same.
The most imported thing in making RTS game graphitic is clarity. In classic W3 it is easy to distinguish each unit, building, hero. In Reforged version it is difficult, models might look good in other type of game, but in RTS they need to be simple and distinguishable.
they really should have let the art team do the cartoony graphics like it was orientally meant to be before they decided "too many games are in a cartoony style, lets go for a realistic style" the product would look way better and wouldn't sacrifice so much of the game's clarity..
Yeah they should have made the "same" models, but with higher poly counts and smoother edges. Night Elf buildings are a good example. The leaves hanging off are flat, paper cut-out looking objects and there's a lot of straight, jagged lines. For the Tree of Life, as an example, you just have to smooth out the top and make the leaves near the bottom more organic (instead of looking like wallpaper glued to cardboard). Or they go all-in on the cardboard look by adding new textures to make those leaves look like they're from a storybook. Instead they tried to go GRIMDARKTHEREISONLYWAR mudcore and it's not readable.
Some look good. I like all Tauren units, wolf/kodo riders, Far Seer for example. I had the biggest problem with Archers watching this game. From behind i couldn't tell if they are Archers or Priests; i just saw their capes and their bows were barely visible when not attacking. Bows should be thicker, especially the string which is basically invisible in right now. Ground textures look bad but the main reason for that seems to be the overall color choice. They made very detailed models and instead of focusing on making them easly distinguishible from a far. Blur the image a bit and you cant see a thing. I really hate proportions of some models which are more realistic than in orginal W3 - they were not realistic for a reason. Models are taller and thinner in reforged (about 20-30% taller). Hero glow is way smaller too. Reforged Paladin looks like his head is extremally small and not at all like the orginal paladin. HOTS Uther looks more suitable for warcraft 3 than reforged version.
I genuinely didn’t realize the Night Elf Archers weren’t more enemy footmen until they started shooting arrows. And even then, I wasn’t sure if they were archers or riflemen until one of them died. Trying to read anything that happens in reforged is painful
I actually really like them. they have issues for a pro player, not for an average player. the choice they made with the art is weird for some of the models, but others look fantastic, like the orc ones. this is by no means me trying to excuse the horrible job Blizzard has done with wc3 reforged overall, just an honest opinion about the graphics.
Average player still doesn't like them, most custom games and subsequent content is classic focused and the primary Reforged HD fanbase is surrounded on a couple major projects. This doesn't mean the numbers are negligent, the HD graphics has it's niche and it does really well there. But a niche is not an average.
I love the TP animation @ 11:00, spirit link, healing wave, etc. Some things they did okay / right. But other choices are so awful. Like any time a footie comes on the screen, I think of Tinker from Dota bringing in little mech critters. Reforged reminds me of the Lion King 2019 film ... where because things looked so "real" nothing was distinguishable and lacked character
Playing campaing like that is nice, but i feel I cant micro with them like that. I actually like the art not being that cartoon-ish but during the adrenaline rush I cant make a difference between a grunt and a shaman.
@@omaewamoushindeiru4190 from basic options in pre-game menus, to performance issues, readability issues, server issues, promised but cut content, content that was CUT that existed from the start during the original release of war3 around 2004. basically not a single good thing, not a single thing this "reforge" offered that the original game didn't do far better...
@@omaewamoushindeiru4190 changing things for the sake of changing things without understanding the visual identity of each unit is a big problem. every unit has to be visually distinct both in color shape and sound because that's how you tell what's happening. everything is viewed by the player in glances from a top down view and the old devs knew that which is why just from a glance you can tell which building is being made, which unit died, which unit is attacking etc. it's more important to be clear, concise and consistent rather than just redone for the sake of a remaster.
@@omaewamoushindeiru4190 Easy visual identification and differentiation is needed for RTS games, Reforged graphics fail in that regard, colour palette and model scale are wrong. They went for a more realistic look when they should have gone for a more cartoony and simple one, they basically overdid it.
Idk why they tried to go so “realistic” with the models. They should have leaned on the more classic/toon style and just make everything look more updated… it’s just too hard to make things out with so much detail on everything.
The house to swamp analogy makes a perfect representation of what blizzard did. If they had used a older/low poly version from Wow models, it would have looked better than what they came up with.
I like a lot of things about the new graphics and I *want* to like them more, but there's definitely things I don't like also. And obviously a big part of it is that the definition, colors, etc. translate poorly into the actual gameplay. As has been said by many, it's a legibility issue even though a lot of the models look excellent on their own in a model viewer and personally I do like the art style even if it's a bit grittier/more realistic than the famous more cartoonish Warcraft art style. It feels just faithful enough *most* of the time. But yeah what the heck is up with the Orc Fortress looking like that? That's not right at all!
Man would of loved if he played a couple of these. It's really hard to see the breadth of the issue with reforged and more tech units and more complex fights really shows it off, a 4v4 where you are all tier 3 must be chaos.
One can get used to the new graphics. My issue was when I literally couldn't pick up an item or select a hero. It didn't happen often, but that it happened more than once is unacceptable.
Reshade is something like a plugin video filter to change the look of a game. In my opinion to play with the Reforged graphics you should reduce saturation kai lower black tones, making the game look more greyish, now it looks very darkfor some reason.
I bought the game yesterday, my first impression was very poor because the default graphics settings were low and at 1200x800 resolution. But, after I set it all to high and playing the human campaign and first 3 missions of the undead campaign, looks good. It's true that it's different from the original, but it works for me. I got used to it
I have a heavily modded map on Warcraft 3, I was wondering if I should get reforged and can import almost everything I changed to a map there. I put easily hundreds of hours into it. I initially started the project in high school, back when I had no internet, then just tinkered with it recently. I just customized a melee game to have like 10+ tiers of upgrades, respawning trees, more advanced and intense creep respawns, each race with unique defenses and harder to destroy and grief buildings. More hero centric and empowered, many more heroes, on a large 12 player map. However, was designed just to make playing vs AI more fun for myself and not too far from melee dynamics (mainly because programming AI in this editor was impossible at the time and made zero sense).
I feel like Reforged Graphics were made for RPG's and close up cameras, which is why it's very hard for Melee Players to enjoy. Warcraft III Reforged Models are so very detailed and beautiful however many people play at a maximum view distance (Custom Games/Melee) where that detail gets very convoluted and hard to differentiate the units. Every single unit/Doodad in Reforged has been redone and looks awesome and works very well with many Custom Games. However I agree it can be very hard for Melee when fighting with huge masses of units, it all gets blurred together with so much detail on every unit. Grubby it would be very cool to see you get more involved on the Custom Map side of the Game, and show off the World Editor, and maybe even Build some of your own Custom Melee Maps.
I like to look at reforged graphics, but don't like to play in them. It always feels like model propotions do not match their collision boxes compared to old graphics, which makes it awkward to control.
It's wierd, at first i thought it was a mod to make it look like w2 with the colorful roof and floor. But the worst, in my opinion, are the unit's portraits
The fun fact is that what Reforged offered was updated graphics -- these updated graphics, that is it. It just showcased the graphics, nothing else. No content, no quality-of-life features. Yet, almost all features were taken or broken in the transition to Reforged, and they remain vastly broken till today. When Reforged was launched, it was rated 0.5 out of 10 on Metacritic. Today, it is rated 0.6 out of 10, which I like. It is a genuine reflection of the progress made in the last three years.
That's disingenuous. The features weren't broken in a transition to reforged, they were broken in a transition to the BNet 2.0 platform and to a host-bot system (Which they literally got from w3a and Pad btw, Bnet games are hosted the exact same way that w3c games are.)
@@yGKeKe BNet 2.0 was inherently related to Reforged in this case. Blizzard refused aid of Pad, and Blizzard even actively tried to patch against work of community members work on numerous occasions. Lets not debate technicalities here.
I'm a part time illustrator, and I'm quite old. Never done any computer / digital artwork. But as an old illustrator with a fairly good grasp of art, design and direction - I'm not happy with the new graphics. If I'd have been directing the visual "update", I'd have simply taken every single original template, exact building sizes and shapes, exact unit sizes and shapes, exact spell effect pallettes and colours - and "improved" them with 1080p / 1440p / 2160p textures for three different graphics modes. Having all those extra pixels to work with would add an insane amount of detail, while being instantly (subconsciously) recognizable to existing fans. It seems the team that did reforged had very little experience or love for the game, and probably aimed at an entirely new demographic, but because of lack of talent / funds - they even missed that mark, and definitely pissed off their core playerbase in one fell swoop. It's like redrawing an old picture you sketched 5, 10 or 15 years ago. All you have to do is better cross hatching / tone work / use better more expensive paper and tools. Instead of trying to re-invent the wheel.
The colors need a massive overhaul. Also, the animated portraits look so bad. It's like when you're watching a 'behind-the-scenes' dev interview and you see some unfinished concept art on a monitor in the background.
The new 'art design' is ass, mainly I think because there is none, Blizzard having outsourced 3D work to a Chinese company which probably did the best with the specs they had. Ground textures in particular look bad and mismatched -- too high detail so they look flat and muddy from a distance, and at the same time splotched down like I'd have done in a map editor as a teenager. The grass, dirt, rock, and water all look like they came from separate freeware texture packs. It's actually shocking how much better the WC3 fan mod in Starcraft 2 from 2016 looks compared to this.
TE AMO, gracias por traer una partida 4VS4 en reforged. No me gustan mucho las texturas pero las unidades se ven mejor. Sin embargo, me gusta más como queda con el quenchin mod, pero ta bueno :3
Oh man, I forgot that Reforged is in dire need of some real visibility upgrades. Heroes and units require the original glow and a brighter palette, Day/Night cycle needs more saturation for day, desaturation and bluish Hue for night, more intensity to floor AO/Shadow for units and buildings, stronger illumination intensity and contrast. Those small changes would improve visibility and quality of life. Mesh quality is ok but in the color department they f*d it bad.
I am making singleplayer maps in HD, and with the right care the graphics look much better than SD. Unfortunately HD requires more work on the environments than the typical multiplayer map has. It would sacrifice visual clarity and performance even more.
I bought the game some weeks ago since I've found Grubby on my yt home and I've seen that *maybe* blizzard is slowly but steadly fixing all the issues. Overall I really like the reforged graphics: models are very well done and full of details, but I see that many things that competitively are important (like unit distinguishing marks, spells particle effects, sound effects ecc) differs a lot and take another path compared to the original look. From what I've seen, re-reforged did a much better work at least for the campaign... I'm clueless why they didn't put as much effort as they did for the Diablo 2 remake, since both titles are maybe the two most iconic games they ever made in the pre-wow era! p.s.: and wtf they did with terrains and doodads/trees? The terrain in the human campain interlude with arthas and medhiv is like watching a dead hortensias pot .-.
Trying to be as objective as possible. I don't really dislike the textures and models, I think that part looks good. My huge issue is I struggle distinguishing units when they're on the same army, and battles are a massive mess where I can't distinguish a thing. For a moment I thought "it may be I am not used to these graphics, so it could be normal that I feel lost", then when the armies were fighting close against each other I paused the video to inspect the units one by one and there are still a few units I can't even figure out the shape they have! It's not that the graphics look bad, it is that for some reason I can't fully understand this is a visual mess. And the weird palette on the environment and illumination make it even worse. No heck no, I prefer the classic graphics.
I can't even switch to reforged graphics without my FPS dropping to like 30 FPS. It's amazing to me how completely unoptimized the models are. Also, as others have noted...they completely threw readability out of the window. I really wish they would fix it so people could actually play the game on newer graphics...but at the end of the day, I'm glad they're just reviving the damn game with basic features and balancing (Even if their balancing decisions are uh...yeah...) Although, I really want to play the campaign on the new graphics...but it's quite unplayable. Seems to require a brand new 7,000 USD + machine to run at a minimumally playable FPS. I just want to point out that you're only playing at 1440p, on a 30xx card....and you still get less than 100 FPS at multiple times in the video lmfao. HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN!? PS: I think that the units aren't really a problem....I think the main problem is the fucking ground. When you keep the same tile style map system as the original game and try to slap new textures on it...it just turns into like a mosaic. Also, the solid colours on things like the Tavern and Stronghold roof...really out of place looking because there's no detailing or shadows or anything lol.
As a casual player who only plays story mode the new graphics are huge step up. MAYBE yea they lost the old charisma and that nostalgia but it's a lot more enjoyable experience for me now. I do agree that some bodies disappearing instead of fading slowly is a negative thing and Naga's having human ears is a stupid oversight
i know right? coulda make a lot of good bucks with that along with some ui tweaks and a better engine that allow more unit to exist in the game and more voice acting, they can take the whole world of warcraft plot into warcraft 4 and we still gonna love it as it is good... butttt they prefer to hold onto the world of warcraft as its made them much more profit, traded their brightest soul for money making machine. thst fvcking goblin need to get banished
The only thing I was stoked about for reforged, was for the movement queue to get an upgrade so I could finally play my zombie games without all the units stutter stepping, but that never happened.
Maybe it's the years that we played old wc3 to where units don't look the same enough to where it is strange. I really just don't think it looks very good though. And I also feel the "bulk" of a unit is missing, while the width or area a unit takes up to block something is still the same. So while it looks visually like something could easily slide through an opening, they seems to spread way out trying to get around each other. I know the game is 10 years older than starcraft 2, but holy crap if you put startcraft's pathing in to wc3 it would feel so much better. Although micro wars would be insane. Half the reason units die is from weird pathing choices they make when you tell them to run away.
I like how even after all this time, I still prefer the old graphics to the "updated" ones. Not sure how they managed that, but given they canceled the PvE mode for Overwatch 2 you really got to admire how much effort Blizzard puts into the L's they make.
A lot of your complaints are actually about art style rather than graphics. Graphically it is better than the old graphics, the textures and details are much higher but the art style is a miss on many things. everyone is mixing up graphics quality with art style choice. When you go into your gpu settings do you turn up an artistic styling option or do you turn up textures, aliasing, shadowing etc?
unpopular opinion but I prefer the updated graphics, I'm a very casual player so I don't experience all the things that you speak about, but being passionate about games in general I see what your on about.... it's never nice when a company butchers your favourite game.
There are some elements of the new graphics that look better, but most of the elements look FAR worse. I don't think there is anything unfixable about the new graphics, but it does still need a lot of work. It's a shame they didn't finish what they started.
I've recently started watching some of your videos again and was thinking that the new graphics didn't look that bad. Until I found out with this video that you're always playing with classic graphics.
These maps were designed with SD graphics enabled and as a result have been tailored towards these settings. So when making the switch to HD a lot of things look out of place. Other than that, I agree, HD graphics were and still are a massive disappointment.
When analysts look at community feedback they see very few substantiative criticisms, just "reforged sucks", "blizzard sucks" so they tell management the consumer doesn't want Warcraft content-- corporate interests don't have the patience to sift through hundreds of reactions, they'll just move to another project: so fans need to be on the side of the developers and say things like "give them more resources.", "give them a second chance." Because they are the only ones who can give you the game you want, let your criticism actually help them.
The problem with more detail graphic is that it distracts you from the strategy things. I like the old version graphic better. Easy, simple keep you focus on RTS
Don't focus so much on the bad things ppl say about you, specially redditors and forum dwelling people, we love you Grubs. The reforge was pretty bad they are just coping.
If you zoom in on a model, it doesn't look awful. It has all these little tiny features and good textures, even if proportions are skewed.
But if you look at a model from 40 feet up and at a 55 degree angle, like you do when playing the actual game, it's some muddled shoulders and dull colors.
It's an army of muddy shoulders and similar samey colors. They're fighting another army of muddy shoulders in different samey colors.
Unless they're the same race. Then it's two armies of samey colors and muddy shoulders making a _Where's Waldo_ simulation.
This.
The main reason models are hard to distinguish is because they don't have enough team color on top of them.
Like grunt has tiny shoulder pad that is colored or footman's shield that is also colored but almost invisible from the top down perspective.
So blue grunts and red grunts look green on the battlefield and footmen from different teams look grey because of armor color
Lemon Sky made the models, terrain and other art look like an eye candy which would be more appropriate for an art exhibition but not actual RTS game.
It's as if none of the designers tested their work in actual match environment with big armies.
They put a lot of work into it but never questioned their employer (Activision) and they only took commission and called it a day which is just sad.
they went for a more realistic aesthetic, which should be fine in other genre but for RTS games where you need to see stuff, it's a freaking disaster.
Where is Waldo simulation 😂😂😂
I think each model in isolation is good. If you were control individual characters, it would be great. However the problem is all that detail actually makes the game harder to read. It didn’t need redone. It needed updating.
I was about to comment the same. With a zoom out, which in fact is a normal zoom in an RTS, those details get lost and you don't see model specific features, hence it is harder to read.
Those models are great. But only if they were used in cinematics or something. Outside that spectrum, gameplay wise its atrocious. It does give flashbacks of those heavily modified CGs that had everything thrown together with no art direction made by randomJoe67 in 2006.
I agree, the fidelity of the models are great, but the issue is readability and that they stray from the Blizzard aesthetics. The most important part of making units for a RTS is their silhouette, i.e. how they read. Additionally, they somehow made things more saturated than previously and it's harsh for the eyes to look at. Pre-reforge assets already had quite intense colors on them so not sure why they wanted to go further there..
I guess this is what happens when you outsource another studio to create almost all models for a game with the addition of a lacking direction from a producer/director at Blizzard.
Actually great take
Exactly this! What's so hard about taking an old model and building the new one over it? Just add a few hundred more poligons, update the textures, maybe add some shaders and done.
I think the main problem with reforged graphics is that I've played this game for 10+ years and have no idea what's going on when looking at it
Its green and grey mess on a contrast ground textures
this
They ruined all the well-designed unit silhouettes
It's the dota 2 sickness, u may or may not get used to it
Yeah i feel the same way, its hard to watch
It was hard to make footman look like headhunter, but they did it!
Blizzard doing the impossible
i thought the footmen were ghouls :(
arent those melee archers?
When I saw the Alterac Valley humans, orcs and elves come out in HOTS I was so excited for Reforged. That is what Reforged needed to be and I'm so sad it didn't end up that way.
man i am still bummed how different Anduin in WoW and HotS. HotS version of W3 stuff so much better there yet they sack that team and promote this abomination
@@Aiveq Greeds.
yeah on hots its just pure beauty :D. Reforge is a joke
Man... Why I read your comentary? Why I watched the Alterac Pass of that game... So easy to copy paste and yet they f*ed things up. Royally...
HOTS just looked amazing in general, all those different styles of games without clashing at all and still representing the source material so well.
Blizzard is a great example of how nothing good lasts forever
They were too perfect to last forever. After WoWs success the great team that turned everything into gold got pushed out in favor of marketing and a quick buck. Steve Jobs talks about this happens to companies pretty succinctly
@@daddyfuse50 Chinese ties did it. WoW is HUGE in China, majority of their player-base anything Warcraft is there. Instead of having Samwise Didier (the legend who gave us that warcraft aesthetic) was not part of reforged at all. Instead it was outsourced to some Malaysian studio.
theyre doing really good with wow classic and d2r
@@D3adCl0wn Yeah, though I feel it's not Lemon Sky Studios (the Malaysian studio) fault at all since they take direction from Blizzard.
@@ZahhibbDev Yep, they were probably just part of some deal or bid. Still, they didn't have to stick to their run off the mill art-style that's prevalent on a lot of asian made video-games. Reforged 100% look like a typical chinese game.
The graphics designers for reforged really forgot the most important aspect of graphical design for a real-time game: Making each unit stand out so they can be easily differentiated. So hard to see which unit is which, and there's not enough colour contrast between the ground and the units. All just belnds into an unrecognizable mash.
The ground and trees textures are too sharp and acid-colored.. And I am absolutely certain that there was no such purple trees in original WC3 at all (quickly checked in world editor, there aren't purple trees on any of the landscapes). And yes, I still have original WC3 installed. Units look fine on their own, but together as a group/army unreadable.. Personally most of the time I cannot easily identify specific unit in combat, same with buildings actually.
They still stand out, it's just that we are used to decades of exposure to the OG graphics, and add to that the vidoe compression.
Challenge, you have to build all your buildings in a single, continuous wall towards the enemy starting from your TC. No gaps except for water etc.
A snake towards the enemy. Great idea!
HODOR
Can't wait to see they release the official graphics! For alpha test it looks very cool :)
the w3 reforged is a clear example that more sometimes can be less. the most important thing when you play a game is to identify at a glance what's happening on the screen. The way the new models and textures are implemented just blend everything together turning the game into a clusterfudge.
I remember old good times when I was playing as undrad and I had my level 36 solo about 12 years ago...this was the first video on reforged graphics and I started to cry...(I,m 31 years old now) like a little child... They destroyed my favourite game and I will not show this to my son...I can't find more words to describe this...
Keep up streaming with classic graphic(we are all watching)
Cheers from Sweden
Cheers from
They do allow you to play with old graphics, but the game still isn't quite the same. The old channel system w/bots and clans was so much better. It's still decent and I play it sometimes, but not what it was.
1:55 If you playback the video at 1.5 speed "work work" sounds normal
Almost got through the entire 4v4 without a single slur… almost…
Unit design needs a clarity pass. The color balance is weird. I think the saturation is fine on everything, WC3 original is pretty colorful like that too, but the problem I think is that it still somehow feels to dull and dark, like their brightness values are all off or something. I can't quite articulate what it is, but colors in WC3 pop and it feels like a moving comic book, and Reforged seems flat and claylike for some reason. I would say I don't hate Reforged style, it has potential, but it needs a lot of work still.
Yeah it's definitely too dark and murky. It is - in fact - rushed and the designers / artists were not as talented as the ones who created WC3, and they also didn't love or understand the game itself, in my opinion.
It's how light and colour work, they overly detailed them so they have a lot of stuff, contrast is low, shadows lack intensity and they're too small (accurate model scale), zoom in and models will be beautiful and detailed, like the portraits, zoom out and they become a messy and floaty grey blur.
work that never will get done sadly
aw i miss this game, i lost my original CD key when i upgraded to reforged and ended up returning it. Fun to see these games played still
Gotta love that modern-Orcish architecture
You got Burrow,
Big Burrow,
Big Tall Burrow...
I fully understand that competetive players do not like the new graphics - I absolutely see that they make the game harder to read, not only because it's not what you're used to, but also because the textures just aren't as clear visually as they are with classic graphics.
However, as a very casual player that enjoys the odd run of the campaign, I always enjoyed the new graphics. With the campaign being fairly easy and chill for the most part, I don't particularly mind that I lose a little bit of that edge through the graphics, and simply enjoy looking at a more modern interpretation of Blizzard's tried and true comic look.
Now if the campaign were bug free 3 years after release, I legit would have no reason to complain about Reforged.
I will never get over the reforged Chimera design, it now has the size of a hyppogrief.
Baby chim, lol
Just use bloodlust on them
@@DmytroBogdan bloodlust as nightelf? 😂
@@sapprine4534 Grubby did it so why not 😁
@@sapprine4534 Just get level 6 DR and steal a peon, it is that simple
It's colourful. And some of the animations are nice e.g. spirit link, TP, tome usage, etc. But I just can't get over the weird proportions. There's not a clear distinction between units like in classic. And the buildings are so bad. Burrow and barracks are so similar. 😂 Plus some of those new voices. 😂
I also like the effects more, old wc3 sometimes gives me eye cancer big time.
Is the ground standing out more than the units? I was just looking at the ground the whole time xD
It does, I like some of the terrain way better than the units and (especially) buildings, I grew up playing W2 and W3, some terrains imo look closer to W2 if it was a new game
yeah, its way too colorful and contrasted compared to units.
the animation of walking peons without anything in there hands looks like a robot just learned how to use its legs.
I legit like the Reforged graphics, they look good. The issue though is visual fidelity to me and I think if we're being objective most would agree. With classic graphics we're used to things like Heroes being notably larger than units, creeps having significant differences in size and color based on level and just more distinction on the units themselves (i.e. Grunts in classic were larger their colors vivid. In Reforged the models are smaller and that single shoulder guard doesn't stand out so much anymore; so in Orc vs Orc I can see how it would be easier to lose track of your grunts in theirs.)
With Reforged they went for more...realistic...for lack of a better term visuals, and while it's nice; it actually takes away from being able to make quick decisions from visual indicators which for an RTS is a detriment. Break the realism up a little, make some color code changes and increase the overall size of a few units and we're on a better track. Two things no one can argue with though 1) The New Paladin model is atrocious and needs to go away. 2) The reforged Shadow Hunter model is amazing.
you forgot death knight model... at least 5 people had to give that model a pass to make it to release. industry professionals from 2-3 different companies
Hey all. My 2 cents:
The graphics are, for the most part, well made. Sure, some are bad, like the archer and PotM. Overall, on a strictly graphics based decision 7/10.
However, as most know from a competitive play perspective, it's very difficult to distinguish the units classic RTS styling would make the units visually distinguishable so micro management in combat pre/post can occur. This is where IMO reforge fell short.
Man speak for yourself
This is just not true lol
I totally agree. The graphics are pretty damn nice. They just made all of the units and buildings look way too similar.
I never got into World of Warcraft, but
For a casual, lore-enjoyer like me ReForged is great. Wish Grubb would play more of it.
They wow-ified the lore like never before. The campaign is unplayable, all these wow characters are painful to see.
@@TheVoodooMakerin the Undead campaign, all those new characters in silver moon and sun well and no interaction with Arthas
lol lore? you cant model this and hanging up on the wall are you talking about lore in your mind?
As a non serious rts player all i like is making cool armies and seeing them fight, that being said everything was so hard to read, it looked like a blurry mess of meaningless details
It looks like the environment has less detail than the units/buildings whereas with the older graphics the reverse seems true. If they spend some more time detailing out the environment maybe that would help tie the visuals together in a better way
lol they cant even level the buildings because there were too lazy to make more than one building design it works with the cartoony but not with the realistic one
no it doesn't, graphics are upgraded
@@derekrecollet8451 They absolutely aren't. To you higher texture means "upgrade" while ignoring the importance of art style. You have no taste at all
they are, what style are you talking about, its the same style, you dont know what your talking about, you can go right now to the old wc3 and see the difference, portraits dont matter.@@crepooscul
You might think that's a great idea but the environment being more detailed/as detailed as the units would be even worse for visibility-- making the units blend in even more with the environment.
The first thing they have done is make the units not so busy-looking and make their colors more vibrant than the environment.
I actually like it since I don't have to deal with all the problems, I just watch your plays and enjoy the new things.
in old wc3, many creeps have different shades of color to know the difference, for example, blue ogre is a magi, red is a brute, yellow is basic and armor is lord
its much better to immediately know which unit it is on a first glance, reforged relies too much on detail
After I played with the new graphics for around 6 months I found it just as easy to read what was going on as classic. Not many people are willing to put in that time though.
I don’t think it even looks bad it’s just different . But it dosnt improve the game in any way. Reforged is just disappointing
@Invictus_trax it was supposed to be Warcraft “reforged “ so ya it was supposed to be an improvement.
@@invictus_trax6418 so it's been a month... re-read your comment. You were out here really taking a stance that a remaster of a game really shouldn't improve it in any meaningful way.
@@viortero9593 eh, I disagree, most animations are stiff, a lot of the modelling kinda just looks generic, there's plenty of skill involved just not a cohesive art direction. I think the perfect example is with the stronghold/fortress section. From a modellers perspective you'd think well you're upgrading a building so it should be some small differences and some polish, but within the context of warcraft these upgrades have always been a distinct thing.
for new players going through the campaign, the first mission where you see an enemy with a t3 townhall is supposed to be an epic impactful mission, with many new units and a large capital, the aesthetic of a t3 is an important part of their impression... but when every unit and building doesn't have their design carry the importance of the units it just doesn't hit the same.
The most imported thing in making RTS game graphitic is clarity. In classic W3 it is easy to distinguish each unit, building, hero. In Reforged version it is difficult, models might look good in other type of game, but in RTS they need to be simple and distinguishable.
Damn, this video is really making me want to go back to playing wc3 4v4s on ladder. happy times
they really should have let the art team do the cartoony graphics like it was orientally meant to be before they decided "too many games are in a cartoony style, lets go for a realistic style" the product would look way better and wouldn't sacrifice so much of the game's clarity..
Yeah they should have made the "same" models, but with higher poly counts and smoother edges. Night Elf buildings are a good example. The leaves hanging off are flat, paper cut-out looking objects and there's a lot of straight, jagged lines.
For the Tree of Life, as an example, you just have to smooth out the top and make the leaves near the bottom more organic (instead of looking like wallpaper glued to cardboard). Or they go all-in on the cardboard look by adding new textures to make those leaves look like they're from a storybook.
Instead they tried to go GRIMDARKTHEREISONLYWAR mudcore and it's not readable.
Some look good. I like all Tauren units, wolf/kodo riders, Far Seer for example.
I had the biggest problem with Archers watching this game. From behind i couldn't tell if they are Archers or Priests; i just saw their capes and their bows were barely visible when not attacking. Bows should be thicker, especially the string which is basically invisible in right now.
Ground textures look bad but the main reason for that seems to be the overall color choice. They made very detailed models and instead of focusing on making them easly distinguishible from a far. Blur the image a bit and you cant see a thing.
I really hate proportions of some models which are more realistic than in orginal W3 - they were not realistic for a reason. Models are taller and thinner in reforged (about 20-30% taller). Hero glow is way smaller too. Reforged Paladin looks like his head is extremally small and not at all like the orginal paladin. HOTS Uther looks more suitable for warcraft 3 than reforged version.
I genuinely didn’t realize the Night Elf Archers weren’t more enemy footmen until they started shooting arrows. And even then, I wasn’t sure if they were archers or riflemen until one of them died. Trying to read anything that happens in reforged is painful
Now that I've played WC3 Reforged with the sexy elf archer death cries, I don't think I can ever go back.
oaaaaahuehu
reforge loks better than I remembered. would have loved to see UD too.
I use reforged graphics with quenching mod for multiplayer and it looks beautiful and is a way more visible and can distinguish units so easy.
I actually really like them. they have issues for a pro player, not for an average player. the choice they made with the art is weird for some of the models, but others look fantastic, like the orc ones. this is by no means me trying to excuse the horrible job Blizzard has done with wc3 reforged overall, just an honest opinion about the graphics.
Average player still doesn't like them, most custom games and subsequent content is classic focused and the primary Reforged HD fanbase is surrounded on a couple major projects.
This doesn't mean the numbers are negligent, the HD graphics has it's niche and it does really well there. But a niche is not an average.
I can't believe you have finally caved in. Uncle Ben was right, you will become a villain even if you're a pure-hearted hobbit.
- Adûnâi
Love Avatar
I love the TP animation @ 11:00, spirit link, healing wave, etc. Some things they did okay / right.
But other choices are so awful. Like any time a footie comes on the screen, I think of Tinker from Dota bringing in little mech critters.
Reforged reminds me of the Lion King 2019 film ... where because things looked so "real" nothing was distinguishable and lacked character
Playing campaing like that is nice, but i feel I cant micro with them like that. I actually like the art not being that cartoon-ish but during the adrenaline rush I cant make a difference between a grunt and a shaman.
I played wc3 for 20 years, I got used to reforged graphics after a year
What the F happened to the floor??? (textures)
I just wish they would use Hots art style and update Wc3 with that
Still shocked that you redo a game and make it literally worse.
what is so bad about it i dont understand? please explain
@@omaewamoushindeiru4190 from basic options in pre-game menus, to performance issues, readability issues, server issues, promised but cut content, content that was CUT that existed from the start during the original release of war3 around 2004. basically not a single good thing, not a single thing this "reforge" offered that the original game didn't do far better...
I still don't like the visuals, it looks like a circus party went nuts lol
@@omaewamoushindeiru4190 changing things for the sake of changing things without understanding the visual identity of each unit is a big problem. every unit has to be visually distinct both in color shape and sound because that's how you tell what's happening. everything is viewed by the player in glances from a top down view and the old devs knew that which is why just from a glance you can tell which building is being made, which unit died, which unit is attacking etc. it's more important to be clear, concise and consistent rather than just redone for the sake of a remaster.
@@omaewamoushindeiru4190 Easy visual identification and differentiation is needed for RTS games, Reforged graphics fail in that regard, colour palette and model scale are wrong. They went for a more realistic look when they should have gone for a more cartoony and simple one, they basically overdid it.
Idk why they tried to go so “realistic” with the models. They should have leaned on the more classic/toon style and just make everything look more updated… it’s just too hard to make things out with so much detail on everything.
I never switched to dota 2 either for the same reasons
The house to swamp analogy makes a perfect representation of what blizzard did.
If they had used a older/low poly version from Wow models, it would have looked better than what they came up with.
I like a lot of things about the new graphics and I *want* to like them more, but there's definitely things I don't like also. And obviously a big part of it is that the definition, colors, etc. translate poorly into the actual gameplay. As has been said by many, it's a legibility issue even though a lot of the models look excellent on their own in a model viewer and personally I do like the art style even if it's a bit grittier/more realistic than the famous more cartoonish Warcraft art style. It feels just faithful enough *most* of the time. But yeah what the heck is up with the Orc Fortress looking like that? That's not right at all!
this oversaturation makes it look like I have the wrong monitor profile enabled
Really goes to show the talent of the old school dev team that they made the game look better than what can be done today.
I think it's more of a commentary on the fact that art is subjective
Man would of loved if he played a couple of these. It's really hard to see the breadth of the issue with reforged and more tech units and more complex fights really shows it off, a 4v4 where you are all tier 3 must be chaos.
Reforged could have been such a fantastic remaster, sadly it's not :'(
One can get used to the new graphics. My issue was when I literally couldn't pick up an item or select a hero. It didn't happen often, but that it happened more than once is unacceptable.
Reshade is something like a plugin video filter to change the look of a game. In my opinion to play with the Reforged graphics you should reduce saturation kai lower black tones, making the game look more greyish, now it looks very darkfor some reason.
I love the new water elemental! So cool!
I bought the game yesterday, my first impression was very poor because the default graphics settings were low and at 1200x800 resolution. But, after I set it all to high and playing the human campaign and first 3 missions of the undead campaign, looks good. It's true that it's different from the original, but it works for me. I got used to it
Ur crazy this game was flawless! And the original graphics were dope as hell
I have a heavily modded map on Warcraft 3, I was wondering if I should get reforged and can import almost everything I changed to a map there. I put easily hundreds of hours into it. I initially started the project in high school, back when I had no internet, then just tinkered with it recently. I just customized a melee game to have like 10+ tiers of upgrades, respawning trees, more advanced and intense creep respawns, each race with unique defenses and harder to destroy and grief buildings. More hero centric and empowered, many more heroes, on a large 12 player map. However, was designed just to make playing vs AI more fun for myself and not too far from melee dynamics (mainly because programming AI in this editor was impossible at the time and made zero sense).
Everything looks kinda the same, it’s really hard to tell things apart from each other. In my opinion that is.
I feel like Reforged Graphics were made for RPG's and close up cameras, which is why it's very hard for Melee Players to enjoy. Warcraft III Reforged Models are so very detailed and beautiful however many people play at a maximum view distance (Custom Games/Melee) where that detail gets very convoluted and hard to differentiate the units.
Every single unit/Doodad in Reforged has been redone and looks awesome and works very well with many Custom Games. However I agree it can be very hard for Melee when fighting with huge masses of units, it all gets blurred together with so much detail on every unit.
Grubby it would be very cool to see you get more involved on the Custom Map side of the Game, and show off the World Editor, and maybe even Build some of your own Custom Melee Maps.
I like to look at reforged graphics, but don't like to play in them. It always feels like model propotions do not match their collision boxes compared to old graphics, which makes it awkward to control.
The original WC3 low poly art were already too good that every future improvement look bad.
It's wierd, at first i thought it was a mod to make it look like w2 with the colorful roof and floor. But the worst, in my opinion, are the unit's portraits
The fun fact is that what Reforged offered was updated graphics -- these updated graphics, that is it. It just showcased the graphics, nothing else. No content, no quality-of-life features. Yet, almost all features were taken or broken in the transition to Reforged, and they remain vastly broken till today. When Reforged was launched, it was rated 0.5 out of 10 on Metacritic. Today, it is rated 0.6 out of 10, which I like. It is a genuine reflection of the progress made in the last three years.
That's disingenuous. The features weren't broken in a transition to reforged, they were broken in a transition to the BNet 2.0 platform and to a host-bot system (Which they literally got from w3a and Pad btw, Bnet games are hosted the exact same way that w3c games are.)
@@yGKeKe BNet 2.0 was inherently related to Reforged in this case. Blizzard refused aid of Pad, and Blizzard even actively tried to patch against work of community members work on numerous occasions. Lets not debate technicalities here.
I'm a part time illustrator, and I'm quite old. Never done any computer / digital artwork. But as an old illustrator with a fairly good grasp of art, design and direction - I'm not happy with the new graphics. If I'd have been directing the visual "update", I'd have simply taken every single original template, exact building sizes and shapes, exact unit sizes and shapes, exact spell effect pallettes and colours - and "improved" them with 1080p / 1440p / 2160p textures for three different graphics modes. Having all those extra pixels to work with would add an insane amount of detail, while being instantly (subconsciously) recognizable to existing fans. It seems the team that did reforged had very little experience or love for the game, and probably aimed at an entirely new demographic, but because of lack of talent / funds - they even missed that mark, and definitely pissed off their core playerbase in one fell swoop.
It's like redrawing an old picture you sketched 5, 10 or 15 years ago. All you have to do is better cross hatching / tone work / use better more expensive paper and tools. Instead of trying to re-invent the wheel.
The colors need a massive overhaul.
Also, the animated portraits look so bad. It's like when you're watching a 'behind-the-scenes' dev interview and you see some unfinished concept art on a monitor in the background.
I do love the visuals of the Reforged Graphics, but I do agree with the animations and how they're handled.
"Sub to the Grub."
-Actual Legend
The new 'art design' is ass, mainly I think because there is none, Blizzard having outsourced 3D work to a Chinese company which probably did the best with the specs they had. Ground textures in particular look bad and mismatched -- too high detail so they look flat and muddy from a distance, and at the same time splotched down like I'd have done in a map editor as a teenager. The grass, dirt, rock, and water all look like they came from separate freeware texture packs.
It's actually shocking how much better the WC3 fan mod in Starcraft 2 from 2016 looks compared to this.
TE AMO, gracias por traer una partida 4VS4 en reforged. No me gustan mucho las texturas pero las unidades se ven mejor. Sin embargo, me gusta más como queda con el quenchin mod, pero ta bueno :3
purple and yellow, the duality of man
1:39 what is the donation sound effect from? It is from some cartoon right?
Oh man, I forgot that Reforged is in dire need of some real visibility upgrades. Heroes and units require the original glow and a brighter palette, Day/Night cycle needs more saturation for day, desaturation and bluish Hue for night, more intensity to floor AO/Shadow for units and buildings, stronger illumination intensity and contrast. Those small changes would improve visibility and quality of life. Mesh quality is ok but in the color department they f*d it bad.
I thought I was going mad, the first thing that bugged me is the "work-work" voice line. xD
I'd say it could still use plenty of polish.
I am making singleplayer maps in HD, and with the right care the graphics look much better than SD. Unfortunately HD requires more work on the environments than the typical multiplayer map has. It would sacrifice visual clarity and performance even more.
I bought the game some weeks ago since I've found Grubby on my yt home and I've seen that *maybe* blizzard is slowly but steadly fixing all the issues. Overall I really like the reforged graphics: models are very well done and full of details, but I see that many things that competitively are important (like unit distinguishing marks, spells particle effects, sound effects ecc) differs a lot and take another path compared to the original look. From what I've seen, re-reforged did a much better work at least for the campaign... I'm clueless why they didn't put as much effort as they did for the Diablo 2 remake, since both titles are maybe the two most iconic games they ever made in the pre-wow era!
p.s.: and wtf they did with terrains and doodads/trees? The terrain in the human campain interlude with arthas and medhiv is like watching a dead hortensias pot .-.
OK, OK, but stop. Are these wolves look like giant squirrels or it’s something wrong with me?
Thanks Grubby, keep doing what you’re doing!
"Blizzard's least proud creation ever" You mean Blizzard's least proud creation so far
Trying to be as objective as possible. I don't really dislike the textures and models, I think that part looks good. My huge issue is I struggle distinguishing units when they're on the same army, and battles are a massive mess where I can't distinguish a thing. For a moment I thought "it may be I am not used to these graphics, so it could be normal that I feel lost", then when the armies were fighting close against each other I paused the video to inspect the units one by one and there are still a few units I can't even figure out the shape they have!
It's not that the graphics look bad, it is that for some reason I can't fully understand this is a visual mess. And the weird palette on the environment and illumination make it even worse. No heck no, I prefer the classic graphics.
I can't even switch to reforged graphics without my FPS dropping to like 30 FPS. It's amazing to me how completely unoptimized the models are. Also, as others have noted...they completely threw readability out of the window. I really wish they would fix it so people could actually play the game on newer graphics...but at the end of the day, I'm glad they're just reviving the damn game with basic features and balancing (Even if their balancing decisions are uh...yeah...)
Although, I really want to play the campaign on the new graphics...but it's quite unplayable. Seems to require a brand new 7,000 USD + machine to run at a minimumally playable FPS.
I just want to point out that you're only playing at 1440p, on a 30xx card....and you still get less than 100 FPS at multiple times in the video lmfao. HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN!?
PS: I think that the units aren't really a problem....I think the main problem is the fucking ground. When you keep the same tile style map system as the original game and try to slap new textures on it...it just turns into like a mosaic. Also, the solid colours on things like the Tavern and Stronghold roof...really out of place looking because there's no detailing or shadows or anything lol.
I like those new graphics looks cool but old are also gold, both are pretty good
As a casual player who only plays story mode the new graphics are huge step up. MAYBE yea they lost the old charisma and that nostalgia but it's a lot more enjoyable experience for me now. I do agree that some bodies disappearing instead of fading slowly is a negative thing and Naga's having human ears is a stupid oversight
we got to see the good side of Bnet and the bad side in one video what a gem
For so long we waited for WC4 with High elves, Naga, Demons etc. They would make so. much. good money. Why are they not doing that....
i know right? coulda make a lot of good bucks with that along with some ui tweaks and a better engine that allow more unit to exist in the game and more voice acting, they can take the whole world of warcraft plot into warcraft 4 and we still gonna love it as it is good... butttt they prefer to hold onto the world of warcraft as its made them much more profit, traded their brightest soul for money making machine. thst fvcking goblin need to get banished
The only thing I was stoked about for reforged, was for the movement queue to get an upgrade so I could finally play my zombie games without all the units stutter stepping, but that never happened.
Maybe it's the years that we played old wc3 to where units don't look the same enough to where it is strange. I really just don't think it looks very good though. And I also feel the "bulk" of a unit is missing, while the width or area a unit takes up to block something is still the same. So while it looks visually like something could easily slide through an opening, they seems to spread way out trying to get around each other.
I know the game is 10 years older than starcraft 2, but holy crap if you put startcraft's pathing in to wc3 it would feel so much better. Although micro wars would be insane. Half the reason units die is from weird pathing choices they make when you tell them to run away.
Pause the video at any moment after 1:00 and you have some decent abstract art.
I like how even after all this time, I still prefer the old graphics to the "updated" ones. Not sure how they managed that, but given they canceled the PvE mode for Overwatch 2 you really got to admire how much effort Blizzard puts into the L's they make.
A lot of your complaints are actually about art style rather than graphics. Graphically it is better than the old graphics, the textures and details are much higher but the art style is a miss on many things. everyone is mixing up graphics quality with art style choice. When you go into your gpu settings do you turn up an artistic styling option or do you turn up textures, aliasing, shadowing etc?
i never found the reofrged graphics bad i like them a lot
unpopular opinion but I prefer the updated graphics, I'm a very casual player so I don't experience all the things that you speak about, but being passionate about games in general I see what your on about.... it's never nice when a company butchers your favourite game.
There are some elements of the new graphics that look better, but most of the elements look FAR worse. I don't think there is anything unfixable about the new graphics, but it does still need a lot of work. It's a shame they didn't finish what they started.
I've recently started watching some of your videos again and was thinking that the new graphics didn't look that bad.
Until I found out with this video that you're always playing with classic graphics.
I love the new gfx BUT they are designed for a closer look in detail, not for a commander to understand what's going on in battle from above.
These maps were designed with SD graphics enabled and as a result have been tailored towards these settings. So when making the switch to HD a lot of things look out of place. Other than that, I agree, HD graphics were and still are a massive disappointment.
When analysts look at community feedback they see very few substantiative criticisms, just "reforged sucks", "blizzard sucks" so they tell management the consumer doesn't want Warcraft content-- corporate interests don't have the patience to sift through hundreds of reactions, they'll just move to another project: so fans need to be on the side of the developers and say things like "give them more resources.", "give them a second chance." Because they are the only ones who can give you the game you want, let your criticism actually help them.
The problem with more detail graphic is that it distracts you from the strategy things.
I like the old version graphic better. Easy, simple keep you focus on RTS
Don't focus so much on the bad things ppl say about you, specially redditors and forum dwelling people, we love you Grubs. The reforge was pretty bad they are just coping.