UA-cams Algorithm recently started pushing videos with low view counts, and honestly that´s a really great change. Fantastic video, keep up the good work. Very high quality
@@datamale I appreciate that you focused on the mental health and longevity aspect. Losing 30 or even 50 pounds at a camp or during a crash diet isn´t nearly as effective as adressing the issues that led to those little kids being as unhealthy as they are. It seems like a cop out from the parents, they don´t want to address their role in their kids unhealthy lifestyle. Instead of actually making the camp fun and enjoyable, motivating the kids to associate "health and sport" with something positive and enjoyable, that camp manages to burn out those kids on day 1. A healthy lifestyle isn´t a one and done deal, you have to maintain it for the rest of your life. Get kids engaged and interested in eating healthy and doings sports, find an activity that can be maintained outside of camp. I´ve been conscripted before, "Military Boot Camp" training methods are designed to be as unenjoyable as possible. Thats why experienced soldiers train in a sustainable way, not trying to pointlessly burn them selves out
@@loverofcat Oh absolutely! They lean super hard into the "strict routine" aspect without making any effort to keep the kids interested in becoming/ staying healthy. A common through line in the documentary is how the kids "aren't here to have fun", but it's never explained why. Surely you would want these kids to WANT to become healthy, right? If they weren't so busy punishing these kids for problems far beyond their control, they might have made a camp that's actually worth a damn.
Incredibly informative. I found your video randomly and really appreciated your overview of this whole situation. Especially how the parents, who shelled out all this money, need to be educated about nutrition themselves if they are able to help their kids succeed. Just sending kids to a camp isn't going to prepare them for the real world. Anyway, great stuff! Keep it up!
An excellent look into this. The whole situation with Pocono reminds me of the Troubled Teen industry more generally (pulling the phrase from Szalavitz is Help at Any Cost). Whether they call themselves 'boot camps' or 'wildlife adventurers' or 'alternatives to prison' or 'tough love therapy' it's all the same structure, a bunch of business people targetting vulnerable populations, with violent and coercive strategies, designed to look good to other adults outside their victims (but who will keep sending those same victims back). Having seen it pop up in boarding schools, against incarcirated young people, and in mental health wards its not surprising to see it targetting fat young people (another highly vulnerable group). It's a doubly sick trick because it actually targets multiple different groups and ties them together in a loop of violence. You mention in the video that many of Pocono's instructors are ex campers. This isn't unusual for outfits like this. What often isn't mentioned is that a lot of the time, that's because the highly institutionalised environment drills in its message enough to destroy the possibility of getting employment elsewhere (certainly the ability to get comparable employment since it's actually teaching them to view more nuanced health science as weak nonsense for losers who don't want to put in the hard work they did), so it traps the instructors in the cycle while also guaranteeing that all its instructors will be necessarily underskilled and underinformed (because if they were informed they wouldn't be doing this). The upshot is that these sort of places often don't just abuse their clientele (the children) but their parents, whatever government funding they're receiving (it's usually some) and their own employees through this cycle of hositility and refusal to actually follow best-practices or scientific rigour (a thing they will then use as marketing but recommending their stuff as 'serious' or 'no--frills'). And because it targets stigmatised groups (young people but specifically, fat young people, many with mental health conditions) these sort of draconian trash piles can be sure that their clients often credible accusations of poor, dangerous practice, institutionalised bullying and god knows what else (if it's anything like the equivalent programs that target boarding schoolers, foreign exchange students, incarcirated young people, mentally ill young people, disabled young people and asylum seekers it will not be good) will be ignored or presented as a proof that the whistle blower really just needs to be sent back to the camp. It's thoroughly disgusting and the knowledge that 'tough love' philosophies continue to prevade services for young people utterly horrifies me. I really strongly recommend Szalavitz on reform/boot camps and there's similarly grim stuff about children's prisons and boarding school history out there, a lot of adults seem to think that young people are machines they can program to do whatever they want, if they just find the right buttons to push and the lack of power we give children is honestly horrific.
The calorie estimates they use for exercise seem extremely deceptive. I think they're based on going hard the whole time, and as someone who's had a lot of experience exercising as a fat person, that's just not the reality when you're out of shape and overweight. You're not able to power through a whole hour of intense exercise, as the kids clearly show, but they don't bring that reality up, they just say "an hour burns 800 kcal"
Absolutely true. It's an absurd statement that's THEORETICALLY true, but not so realistic for the average overweight kid with no experience exercising.
i read guy dubord's society of the spectacle recently, and this really reminded me of it. It's like, when there's no difference in profit between actually helping people, and APPEARING to help people, and it's more expensive to actually help, then companies are expected to create this false world, rather than the real on.
Great video! That camp is definitely a reflection of society’s view on children as “lesser beings who need guidance,” all the while completely ignoring said children’s’ own opinions and feelings, the validity (or often, lack thereof) of said guidance, and the wider structures that lead to such need for guidance that are often ignored and attributed to personal failing or some such in the first place… Applies to many other groups than just children too, and same with the “guidance” of the wider world of weight loss programs in general!
I went here summer of 2019 and agree with everything you said. I wish they would make a documentary about all the kids and their experiences to expose this place and shut it down
@@KrazeeClark I only went for 2 weeks before I begged my parents to let me come home. I was in a dark place mentally, like many of the other kids. I was lucky to go home though. I did lose some weight in those 2 weeks, I think a couple pounds. I did not keep the weight off and gained some. Now I am healthy and thriving and did it on my own.
Man, I could totally open a camp and do a 4x better job at 1/4 of the price. Man so many teachers love working with people outside of the strict confines of a classroom environment, I could easily get great teachers (when 1 kid is paying 2500) and pay them well too. All I have to do is, have less kids, actually listen to the kids, keep up with research (which I already do), let them have fun, and actually explain the relation between our bodies and food
You may be underestimating how much it’ll cost to purchase the property, keep everything maintained, food purchases for all of those students, paying teachers, counselors, nurse (at least one), paying cooks, paying for tennis courts or other specialty equipment for many kids to be able to exercise in a fun way, etc. Plus you’d likely want to turn a profit so you’d have money to put back into the company as well as have money to pay your own living expenses…. It’s not as cheap as you’re making it seem to do because you’re only thinking about the cost of the teachers hourly or daily rate.
I've watched like... I think four of your videos now and am only now seeing you're just at 6k With how much research you've put into these videos and on top of how well they're edited, written and created, I was actually surprised that you weren't 80k+ subs. You deserve so much more, especially considering the topics you cover
Great video as always! I can't get over how these full-grown adults completely disregard the feelings of kids. It must be a generational thing but damn it's so harmful.
It’s for sure a generational thing, and the people who did originally care got compassion burn out, so they may still care deep down, but on the surface they see these kids as case numbers. It shouldn’t happen as it can negatively effect clients, but unfortunately it happens, and it happens in a lot of jobs/careers that have a service-element like nursing, child care, customer service, retail, etc.
This video was great, it put so many things into words that ive been thinking of. Something these camps always fail to adress is one vital fact: children do not become obese just from having a big apetite. It is ALWAYS in the responsibility of parents to lead by example and have an in house culture of healthy eating and providing their children a good lifestyle. As well as adequate knowledge about physical and psychological health. Fat-camp is an extremely expensive band aid on a gunshot wound.
Great video as always. Unfortunately, despite how shocking this camp in particular seems, I've myself experienced the same or worse kinds of conditions at similar (mental) institutions.
@@datamale Not to get into too much detail. But especially the part about the utter dismissal of how the "patients" feel seems to be a running theme. That is completely ignoring the perspective of the children, either because "you have to stick to the program", (be it with the aim of weightloss or bettering one's mental health), or because the focus is clearly on how the parents will percieve the "results". Especially the latter was endlessly frustrating, because a lot of us were "treated" for issues that parents or others had decided we had, without us ever being listened to; no one really cared about how we viewed ourselves, what we thought caused us problems or how we felt about the stay there. None of those factors seemed to have any impact on how we were treated, it was mainly about "following protocol". For example, being ignored when trying explain, that being trans is not what's causing self harming behaviour; living in an abusive household is. Completely being shut off from the outside, aside from short phone calls, was another example of a measure pretty much all facilities took without ever stopping to question whether it played a benefitial role or a part in a lot of patients feeling even more miserable than before entering treatment. In general a common issue seems to be that medical institutions (and I would count those types of camps as such) don't seem to view their patients, especially if they're children, as full people who should be engaged with as equals. Treatment isn't viewed as something to be pursued in cooperation with the patient, but as something the institution, as a higher authority enforces upon them, for "their own good".
@@BJSepuku I'm sorry you experienced that, I hope that you've been able to feel validated since then. Camps like these seem to be a huge misstep in priorities. They don't approach problems like these with any nuance or compassion, but rather a sense of moralising and blame placed on these children who often don't know any better. A running theme through this documentary is that these kids "aren't there to have fun". But my question is: Why? It's reflective of their need to punish these kids for factors beyond their control, all to keep up appearances as a "no-nonsense weight loss camp".
@@datamale oh definitely. It seems like this show is trying to follow the common narrative that obesity is a personal (moral) failing (instead of a symptom of larger personal or societal issues) that calls for punishment/hard work as a response.
I’ve had a similar experience with mental health help as a child and as an adult, and it was even worse when I voluntarily went to a mental hospital. It’s disgusting how dehumanized we are, but worst of all no one cares. Not even the patient advocate number you’re advised to call to file a complaint.
I went to CPT on scholarship when I was 12 years old and it’s easily one of the most traumatizing memories from my childhood. I am currently seeking intensive therapy for an ED.
When MTV did their special Fat Camp it was very clear the obvious mental health issues one girl with a very clear eating disorder but children's mental health wasnt a thing at the time and i think the owner still has that attitude now. Realistic nutrition and diet advice should be given but he doesnt care. And good point bringing up the pointless gendered exercises i didnt even catch that.
I saw that documentary while researching for this video. I really hate that these kids, many of whom are clearly struggling with some form of untreated mental disorder, are being turned into memes and bullied online, due to how sensationalized that first show was. I don't understand why, if you actually cared about these kids, you would ever let MTV portray them in that way to begin with. But I mean... advertising, right?
@datamale i think unfortunately a lot of people watch these things from a sadistic viewpoint. I used to watch the first few seasons of my 600lb life and i watch cause I love documentaries and looking at peoples experiences but majority of the people who watch it just want to see a breakdown or "haha fat people bad" agenda. But yeah its a shame even kids in get picked on and bullied when its clearly mental health and more going on.
@@defsnotdevyn For sure, the spectacle is a big selling point. There are several shots where the camera zooms in to some kid's fat belly or legs as if to highlight how overweight they are, a really weird and grotesque thing to do AFTER highlighting their mental health struggles. It's like they're caught in a conflict between bringing awareness to WHY these kids are fat, whilst still turning them into a freak show.
i watched this documentary a while go. I wish i had the money to go for how quickly they lost weight. to my disordered thinking, they really sold me on it.
That makes sense. These camps operate by targeting desperation and promising solutions, regardless of if they can actually deliver. It's a shame how effectively they're able to sell empty promises.
@@datamale Sadly, they really do. also, have you watched the weight loss camps in the UK? Their curriculum has a lower focus on exercise, let’s teens explore different activities and find exercises that they enjoy. They also teach a lot about mental health, and nutrition. Plans are tailored for each camper, and they even have trips to the mall and places like McDonalds so that they learn how to make better choices in different environments.
i would argue that this whole camp’s concept is rooted in punishing children for being fat and disguising it as trying to help them, much like you compare it to a prison. i think it’s also tenuous to assume that all of these kids are starting off unhealthy, even if they are larger than their peers, especially since this camp doesn’t seem concerned with the health of the kids at all. it seems to me to just be an institution for parents who are uncomfortable with having a fat child to dump their kids into for a while to pretend they’re doing something good for them when really it seems like a tedious slog at best and traumatic at worst
I went to Camp Shane in 1988. In my opinion, these camps do far more harm than good. These are for profit enterprises. Roughly half the kids were either bribed or guilted into going. They don't want to be there. The camps tell a good story for unsuspecting parents. All you have to do is scrape below the surface. For example: the camp will emphasize mental wellbeing and may even have a psychologist on staff. Parse that claim just a bit and it falls apart. How can you provide mental health counseling and therapy to several hundred kids over the course of 3-9 weeks? Keep in mind, it takes time to build up trust with a therapist. How can that relationship be established if the relationship is terminal (the summer ends). Most of these kids gain it all back over the year. So as a value proposition---you just spent thousands of dollars to send your kids to this camp, they lose weight, and then gain it all back. Was it worth it? Was it worth it when you also compounded their eating problems or created new ones? These camps work for kids who WANT to be there and understand that this is rapid weight loss. These camps are basically a kick in the pants to get you started. But if you take a kid who doesn't want to be there or was forced to go, odds are the camp will fail. People like David Ettenberg who ran Shane and Tony Sparber profit on this merry-go round game. Ask one more question: do these camps keep track of kids that went to camp? Probably not. And why not? Because there is no profit motive in so doing.
Disclaimer : I agree, I am just talking about format here. I found it kinda Ironic to see - after you underlined it's extensive use in propaganda - that you just blatantly used the "contrast montage" technique at 25:12. I'm going to choose to consider that a "cheeky wink" at your older analyses, or a "test the viewer" kind of thing. hope i get a price
I doubt an hour of Zumba even burns 800 cal. I´m no expert here, so take that with a grain of salt, but I, 23, male body, 6´1, about 180 lbs, only burn about 600 cal running 6 miles, which I do twice a week, which takes me about 55 to 65 minutes depending on how I´m feeling that day. I was a very fat kid from about the age of 13 to 17. I was exercising regularly during that time but didn´t loose weight due to my eating habits which all stemmed from a response to bullying and mental illness. Once I started therapy I lost a lot of lbs to where I was slightly underweight. Once my mental health issues flared up again, I gained weight like clockwork. Once I got better I lost weight again. All with the same exercise regiment. What I´m trying to say here is, that the overweight crisis won´t be solved until systemic mental health and poverty issues are overcome.
Agree. I gained 45 lb over 3 years due to my stress at work. As I quit my job I lost 30 in tree months. My eating habits changed, I didn’t crave sugary and fatty meals anymore. But I’m looking for another job now and I’m scared that when stress is back I will gain weight back🤷♀️.
You have a couple valid points but this video def seems very biased. I guarantee many children have had wonderful experiences here lost weight and gained a new found confidence. You’re just inputting all your personal beliefs and opinions. At no point did you try to get in contact any previous campers to get input regarding a topic you honestly aren’t that well informed about.
I don't think there is a sinister reason for the pledge of allegiance because that's just what American kids are used to. Your McD salad example is bad because the only salad you can get at McD is the disgusting 200 kcal dry chicken salad (130 kcal if you go for grilled chicken and no bacon).
Wow….did you go here and fail or do you have a personal vendetta against Tony? This is the wokest video I’ve ever seen. This isn’t a luxury spa they’re attending. I’ve known MANY kids that have had a fantastic time here and succeeded.
I personally think Tony Sparber and Dave Ettenberg are despicable and I went to Shane in 1988. You are right. There are many kids that do well at these camps and enjoy it. However, this is a weight loss camp. You are introducing an unstable element--weight. Kids process being sent to a place like this differently. For many--they get into the camp spirit and have a great time. However, many many kids who were guilted or bribed or forced to go, these camps can do an enormous amount of damage. All I am saying is: kids should be screened before going. There is no profit incentive for the camp to do it or require it so this is something parents should do. Otherwise, you are running the risk of damaging your child.
DONATION LINKS:
(USA) National Eating Disorders Association:
secure3.convio.net/neda/site/Donation2;jsessionid=00000000.app30015b?df_id=6203&mfc_pref=T&6203.donation=form1&NONCE_TOKEN=AD1C854DE9BED548FC8CF1AA8CBC16CD
(UK) BEAT:
www.beateatingdisorders.org.uk/support-our-work/donate-to-beat/ways-to-give/
UA-cams Algorithm recently started pushing videos with low view counts, and honestly that´s a really great change. Fantastic video, keep up the good work. Very high quality
Ah thanks so much for the kind words!
@@datamale I appreciate that you focused on the mental health and longevity aspect. Losing 30 or even 50 pounds at a camp or during a crash diet isn´t nearly as effective as adressing the issues that led to those little kids being as unhealthy as they are. It seems like a cop out from the parents, they don´t want to address their role in their kids unhealthy lifestyle. Instead of actually making the camp fun and enjoyable, motivating the kids to associate "health and sport" with something positive and enjoyable, that camp manages to burn out those kids on day 1. A healthy lifestyle isn´t a one and done deal, you have to maintain it for the rest of your life.
Get kids engaged and interested in eating healthy and doings sports, find an activity that can be maintained outside of camp.
I´ve been conscripted before, "Military Boot Camp" training methods are designed to be as unenjoyable as possible. Thats why experienced soldiers train in a sustainable way, not trying to pointlessly burn them selves out
@@loverofcat Oh absolutely!
They lean super hard into the "strict routine" aspect without making any effort to keep the kids interested in becoming/ staying healthy.
A common through line in the documentary is how the kids "aren't here to have fun", but it's never explained why. Surely you would want these kids to WANT to become healthy, right?
If they weren't so busy punishing these kids for problems far beyond their control, they might have made a camp that's actually worth a damn.
Incredibly informative. I found your video randomly and really appreciated your overview of this whole situation. Especially how the parents, who shelled out all this money, need to be educated about nutrition themselves if they are able to help their kids succeed. Just sending kids to a camp isn't going to prepare them for the real world.
Anyway, great stuff! Keep it up!
An excellent look into this.
The whole situation with Pocono reminds me of the Troubled Teen industry more generally (pulling the phrase from Szalavitz is Help at Any Cost). Whether they call themselves 'boot camps' or 'wildlife adventurers' or 'alternatives to prison' or 'tough love therapy' it's all the same structure, a bunch of business people targetting vulnerable populations, with violent and coercive strategies, designed to look good to other adults outside their victims (but who will keep sending those same victims back). Having seen it pop up in boarding schools, against incarcirated young people, and in mental health wards its not surprising to see it targetting fat young people (another highly vulnerable group).
It's a doubly sick trick because it actually targets multiple different groups and ties them together in a loop of violence. You mention in the video that many of Pocono's instructors are ex campers. This isn't unusual for outfits like this. What often isn't mentioned is that a lot of the time, that's because the highly institutionalised environment drills in its message enough to destroy the possibility of getting employment elsewhere (certainly the ability to get comparable employment since it's actually teaching them to view more nuanced health science as weak nonsense for losers who don't want to put in the hard work they did), so it traps the instructors in the cycle while also guaranteeing that all its instructors will be necessarily underskilled and underinformed (because if they were informed they wouldn't be doing this).
The upshot is that these sort of places often don't just abuse their clientele (the children) but their parents, whatever government funding they're receiving (it's usually some) and their own employees through this cycle of hositility and refusal to actually follow best-practices or scientific rigour (a thing they will then use as marketing but recommending their stuff as 'serious' or 'no--frills').
And because it targets stigmatised groups (young people but specifically, fat young people, many with mental health conditions) these sort of draconian trash piles can be sure that their clients often credible accusations of poor, dangerous practice, institutionalised bullying and god knows what else (if it's anything like the equivalent programs that target boarding schoolers, foreign exchange students, incarcirated young people, mentally ill young people, disabled young people and asylum seekers it will not be good) will be ignored or presented as a proof that the whistle blower really just needs to be sent back to the camp.
It's thoroughly disgusting and the knowledge that 'tough love' philosophies continue to prevade services for young people utterly horrifies me. I really strongly recommend Szalavitz on reform/boot camps and there's similarly grim stuff about children's prisons and boarding school history out there, a lot of adults seem to think that young people are machines they can program to do whatever they want, if they just find the right buttons to push and the lack of power we give children is honestly horrific.
The calorie estimates they use for exercise seem extremely deceptive. I think they're based on going hard the whole time, and as someone who's had a lot of experience exercising as a fat person, that's just not the reality when you're out of shape and overweight. You're not able to power through a whole hour of intense exercise, as the kids clearly show, but they don't bring that reality up, they just say "an hour burns 800 kcal"
Absolutely true. It's an absurd statement that's THEORETICALLY true, but not so realistic for the average overweight kid with no experience exercising.
i read guy dubord's society of the spectacle recently, and this really reminded me of it. It's like, when there's no difference in profit between actually helping people, and APPEARING to help people, and it's more expensive to actually help, then companies are expected to create this false world, rather than the real on.
Great video! That camp is definitely a reflection of society’s view on children as “lesser beings who need guidance,” all the while completely ignoring said children’s’ own opinions and feelings, the validity (or often, lack thereof) of said guidance, and the wider structures that lead to such need for guidance that are often ignored and attributed to personal failing or some such in the first place… Applies to many other groups than just children too, and same with the “guidance” of the wider world of weight loss programs in general!
this is so high quality !! you deserve so much more hype omg
Great video! Reminds me of ‘Heavyweights’ in all the discouraging ways, glad I was recommended this..
Wouldn't it be so much better to use that enormous amount of money to see an actual registered dietitian and child psychiatrist?
It would!
But then it would be less profitable, and we can't have that now can we?
I went here summer of 2019 and agree with everything you said. I wish they would make a documentary about all the kids and their experiences to expose this place and shut it down
I’m just curious about your results. Did you lose weight here? Did you keep it off? I ask respectfully. 👍❤
@@KrazeeClark I only went for 2 weeks before I begged my parents to let me come home. I was in a dark place mentally, like many of the other kids. I was lucky to go home though. I did lose some weight in those 2 weeks, I think a couple pounds. I did not keep the weight off and gained some. Now I am healthy and thriving and did it on my own.
Man, I could totally open a camp and do a 4x better job at 1/4 of the price. Man so many teachers love working with people outside of the strict confines of a classroom environment, I could easily get great teachers (when 1 kid is paying 2500) and pay them well too. All I have to do is, have less kids, actually listen to the kids, keep up with research (which I already do), let them have fun, and actually explain the relation between our bodies and food
You may be underestimating how much it’ll cost to purchase the property, keep everything maintained, food purchases for all of those students, paying teachers, counselors, nurse (at least one), paying cooks, paying for tennis courts or other specialty equipment for many kids to be able to exercise in a fun way, etc. Plus you’d likely want to turn a profit so you’d have money to put back into the company as well as have money to pay your own living expenses…. It’s not as cheap as you’re making it seem to do because you’re only thinking about the cost of the teachers hourly or daily rate.
@@bunnylacy2097 i wasn't. I just was not thinking about doing this in the US. 2500 usd is nutty amounts of money
yo insane quality
I've watched like... I think four of your videos now and am only now seeing you're just at 6k
With how much research you've put into these videos and on top of how well they're edited, written and created, I was actually surprised that you weren't 80k+ subs. You deserve so much more, especially considering the topics you cover
Great video as always! I can't get over how these full-grown adults completely disregard the feelings of kids. It must be a generational thing but damn it's so harmful.
It’s for sure a generational thing, and the people who did originally care got compassion burn out, so they may still care deep down, but on the surface they see these kids as case numbers. It shouldn’t happen as it can negatively effect clients, but unfortunately it happens, and it happens in a lot of jobs/careers that have a service-element like nursing, child care, customer service, retail, etc.
This video was great, it put so many things into words that ive been thinking of. Something these camps always fail to adress is one vital fact: children do not become obese just from having a big apetite. It is ALWAYS in the responsibility of parents to lead by example and have an in house culture of healthy eating and providing their children a good lifestyle. As well as adequate knowledge about physical and psychological health. Fat-camp is an extremely expensive band aid on a gunshot wound.
I live less than 20 minutes away from the camp and didn’t even know it existed. Appreciate the work you’ve put into this project.
if data male has a milion fans then im one of them
if he has one fan THEN IM THAT ONE FAN
if he has NO fans then im DEAD
Kind words from the best Vegan Channel on YT ❤
Great video as always. Unfortunately, despite how shocking this camp in particular seems, I've myself experienced the same or worse kinds of conditions at similar (mental) institutions.
I'm really sorry to hear.
Are you able to elaborate on some of the things you experienced?
@@datamale Not to get into too much detail. But especially the part about the utter dismissal of how the "patients" feel seems to be a running theme. That is completely ignoring the perspective of the children, either because "you have to stick to the program", (be it with the aim of weightloss or bettering one's mental health), or because the focus is clearly on how the parents will percieve the "results". Especially the latter was endlessly frustrating, because a lot of us were "treated" for issues that parents or others had decided we had, without us ever being listened to; no one really cared about how we viewed ourselves, what we thought caused us problems or how we felt about the stay there. None of those factors seemed to have any impact on how we were treated, it was mainly about "following protocol". For example, being ignored when trying explain, that being trans is not what's causing self harming behaviour; living in an abusive household is. Completely being shut off from the outside, aside from short phone calls, was another example of a measure pretty much all facilities took without ever stopping to question whether it played a benefitial role or a part in a lot of patients feeling even more miserable than before entering treatment. In general a common issue seems to be that medical institutions (and I would count those types of camps as such) don't seem to view their patients, especially if they're children, as full people who should be engaged with as equals. Treatment isn't viewed as something to be pursued in cooperation with the patient, but as something the institution, as a higher authority enforces upon them, for "their own good".
@@BJSepuku I'm sorry you experienced that, I hope that you've been able to feel validated since then.
Camps like these seem to be a huge misstep in priorities. They don't approach problems like these with any nuance or compassion, but rather a sense of moralising and blame placed on these children who often don't know any better.
A running theme through this documentary is that these kids "aren't there to have fun".
But my question is: Why?
It's reflective of their need to punish these kids for factors beyond their control, all to keep up appearances as a "no-nonsense weight loss camp".
@@datamale oh definitely. It seems like this show is trying to follow the common narrative that obesity is a personal (moral) failing (instead of a symptom of larger personal or societal issues) that calls for punishment/hard work as a response.
I’ve had a similar experience with mental health help as a child and as an adult, and it was even worse when I voluntarily went to a mental hospital. It’s disgusting how dehumanized we are, but worst of all no one cares. Not even the patient advocate number you’re advised to call to file a complaint.
So glad you posted a new video ❤
I went to CPT on scholarship when I was 12 years old and it’s easily one of the most traumatizing memories from my childhood. I am currently seeking intensive therapy for an ED.
Just started watching and… 2k$ per WEEK? Is the plan to lose weight is to not have enough money left for food?
Great video! You earned a new subscriber.
the Pocono guy is just a businessman; it's the parents who need... guidance
When MTV did their special Fat Camp it was very clear the obvious mental health issues one girl with a very clear eating disorder but children's mental health wasnt a thing at the time and i think the owner still has that attitude now. Realistic nutrition and diet advice should be given but he doesnt care. And good point bringing up the pointless gendered exercises i didnt even catch that.
I saw that documentary while researching for this video.
I really hate that these kids, many of whom are clearly struggling with some form of untreated mental disorder, are being turned into memes and bullied online, due to how sensationalized that first show was.
I don't understand why, if you actually cared about these kids, you would ever let MTV portray them in that way to begin with.
But I mean... advertising, right?
@datamale i think unfortunately a lot of people watch these things from a sadistic viewpoint. I used to watch the first few seasons of my 600lb life and i watch cause I love documentaries and looking at peoples experiences but majority of the people who watch it just want to see a breakdown or "haha fat people bad" agenda. But yeah its a shame even kids in get picked on and bullied when its clearly mental health and more going on.
@@defsnotdevyn For sure, the spectacle is a big selling point.
There are several shots where the camera zooms in to some kid's fat belly or legs as if to highlight how overweight they are, a really weird and grotesque thing to do AFTER highlighting their mental health struggles.
It's like they're caught in a conflict between bringing awareness to WHY these kids are fat, whilst still turning them into a freak show.
very well made man, thanks 👍
Could have used more clips of the movie HeavyWeights with Ben Stiller as the villain
i watched this documentary a while go. I wish i had the money to go for how quickly they lost weight. to my disordered thinking, they really sold me on it.
That makes sense. These camps operate by targeting desperation and promising solutions, regardless of if they can actually deliver.
It's a shame how effectively they're able to sell empty promises.
@@datamale Sadly, they really do.
also, have you watched the weight loss camps in the UK? Their curriculum has a lower focus on exercise, let’s teens explore different activities and find exercises that they enjoy. They also teach a lot about mental health, and nutrition. Plans are tailored for each camper, and they even have trips to the mall and places like McDonalds so that they learn how to make better choices in different environments.
6:31 as someone who was been to this camp as a counsellor thats absolutely not true
I kinda think this guy never went to camp…. I never had access to my parents at camp at all…
I love how the owner of the camp himself looks unwell, out of shape and not healthy lmao that should tell anyone everything they should know.
i would argue that this whole camp’s concept is rooted in punishing children for being fat and disguising it as trying to help them, much like you compare it to a prison. i think it’s also tenuous to assume that all of these kids are starting off unhealthy, even if they are larger than their peers, especially since this camp doesn’t seem concerned with the health of the kids at all. it seems to me to just be an institution for parents who are uncomfortable with having a fat child to dump their kids into for a while to pretend they’re doing something good for them when really it seems like a tedious slog at best and traumatic at worst
I went to Camp Shane in 1988. In my opinion, these camps do far more harm than good. These are for profit enterprises. Roughly half the kids were either bribed or guilted into going. They don't want to be there. The camps tell a good story for unsuspecting parents. All you have to do is scrape below the surface. For example: the camp will emphasize mental wellbeing and may even have a psychologist on staff. Parse that claim just a bit and it falls apart. How can you provide mental health counseling and therapy to several hundred kids over the course of 3-9 weeks? Keep in mind, it takes time to build up trust with a therapist. How can that relationship be established if the relationship is terminal (the summer ends). Most of these kids gain it all back over the year. So as a value proposition---you just spent thousands of dollars to send your kids to this camp, they lose weight, and then gain it all back. Was it worth it? Was it worth it when you also compounded their eating problems or created new ones? These camps work for kids who WANT to be there and understand that this is rapid weight loss. These camps are basically a kick in the pants to get you started. But if you take a kid who doesn't want to be there or was forced to go, odds are the camp will fail. People like David Ettenberg who ran Shane and Tony Sparber profit on this merry-go round game. Ask one more question: do these camps keep track of kids that went to camp? Probably not. And why not? Because there is no profit motive in so doing.
Disclaimer : I agree, I am just talking about format here.
I found it kinda Ironic to see - after you underlined it's extensive use in propaganda - that you just blatantly used the "contrast montage" technique at 25:12.
I'm going to choose to consider that a "cheeky wink" at your older analyses, or a "test the viewer" kind of thing.
hope i get a price
I doubt an hour of Zumba even burns 800 cal. I´m no expert here, so take that with a grain of salt, but I, 23, male body, 6´1, about 180 lbs, only burn about 600 cal running 6 miles, which I do twice a week, which takes me about 55 to 65 minutes depending on how I´m feeling that day.
I was a very fat kid from about the age of 13 to 17. I was exercising regularly during that time but didn´t loose weight due to my eating habits which all stemmed from a response to bullying and mental illness. Once I started therapy I lost a lot of lbs to where I was slightly underweight. Once my mental health issues flared up again, I gained weight like clockwork. Once I got better I lost weight again. All with the same exercise regiment.
What I´m trying to say here is, that the overweight crisis won´t be solved until systemic mental health and poverty issues are overcome.
Agree. I gained 45 lb over 3 years due to my stress at work. As I quit my job I lost 30 in tree months. My eating habits changed, I didn’t crave sugary and fatty meals anymore. But I’m looking for another job now and I’m scared that when stress is back I will gain weight back🤷♀️.
You have a couple valid points but this video def seems very biased. I guarantee many children have had wonderful experiences here lost weight and gained a new found confidence. You’re just inputting all your personal beliefs and opinions. At no point did you try to get in contact any previous campers to get input regarding a topic you honestly aren’t that well informed about.
I don't think there is a sinister reason for the pledge of allegiance because that's just what American kids are used to.
Your McD salad example is bad because the only salad you can get at McD is the disgusting 200 kcal dry chicken salad (130 kcal if you go for grilled chicken and no bacon).
Some of the phrasing in that documentary is so gross. He "cant resist' a cheeseburger? Its a fucking cheeseburger, not the One Ring
This is like 1950s weight-loss advice. Nothing scientific or rational about it!
Wow….did you go here and fail or do you have a personal vendetta against Tony? This is the wokest video I’ve ever seen. This isn’t a luxury spa they’re attending. I’ve known MANY kids that have had a fantastic time here and succeeded.
I loved it! It was fun, we did tubing, had dances every week, went zip lining, and gave us a way to build confidence on stage
Everything you disagree with = woke? I’m so sick of hearing that work🫥
I personally think Tony Sparber and Dave Ettenberg are despicable and I went to Shane in 1988. You are right. There are many kids that do well at these camps and enjoy it. However, this is a weight loss camp. You are introducing an unstable element--weight. Kids process being sent to a place like this differently. For many--they get into the camp spirit and have a great time. However, many many kids who were guilted or bribed or forced to go, these camps can do an enormous amount of damage. All I am saying is: kids should be screened before going. There is no profit incentive for the camp to do it or require it so this is something parents should do. Otherwise, you are running the risk of damaging your child.