I Just Don't Know How To Grade Coins PCGS Submission Reveal My Coin Shop Website portsmouthcoin... Mint State UA-cam Channel / @mintstatecointechnolo...
The grading problem isn't with Daniel ...it's with PCGS. They only give top grades to their dealers and family. That's why you see crappy PCGS graded coins with high grades on them. I own a few that I bought when I was a new collector. If they were cracked out and resubmitted, they might come back in body bags.
Sold all of my graded type coins years ago. Will never pay to have my coins holdered. They can keep their opinions to them self. I can buy so much more without there opinion. Mine is the one that matters. I'm not selling anything
Do you ever wonder if they pulled a switcheroo on you and kept your 68+ or 69 and gave you one of their 66 or 67's so they could sell it for big money or keep it for one of their buds high end collections?
I wish the grading companys would send back what problems they saw and why it got the grade it got, for the price, they could say like for example "minor scratch about date" ,"scuffing on cheek" etc.
@@rickgeeprofitcoins6794 Also what do you think about computer/ electronical type grading, they could have a database of all graded examples put the coin under laser/etc and have 1 machine that grades all of the coins so it's not just a bunch of different numismatic experts verifying/arguing about grades, I just think for the money that a MS64 - MS65+ or evn more $ a grade of a MS66 coin compared to a MS66+ or MS67 can be HUGE !!
A person cannot tell what the grade of a coin is just by looking at it in this video, there is magnification involved. The four coins I liked the most was the Trade, and Peace Dollar, the Winged Liberty Dime, and the Franklin. I like to get nice looking AU Graded coins...
I'm getting better at pre-grading before submission. I bought a 2019-W Frank Church Idaho Quarter from eBay which I wanted to add to a full set ....but got looking at it... and thought it would come close to a top pop. It recently got a PCGS MS67, meaning only 2 coins 67+ are above it. To me, the strike quality is a must, as you frequently state. Thanks for the fine content!
I just don't know how to grade a coin. That Peace 58 AU looked like a MS 60++++++ . That Benie really looked like a deep cameo on film. I can only imagine in person. Who can we trust? MINT STATE TECH ?
I think you are right about the 1924-S. It looks at least MS-60 but I cannot see scratches. Luster seems fine and obtrusive marks seem to be at a minimum. I can't see any high-point wear either.
I am just learning grading but yours looks great to me. I don't have any worth grading but I do have a few graded coins for me to learn and compare with. Great information though, for this amateur.
Good morning Daniel , you have fabulous information as always... sadly I have to start all over with my wheat cent collection as they all vanished from storage...
Brian I would have put my 40-some years experience on the line thinking that was about a 99% at least cameo. I'm perplexed. That's the main reason I never gave customers opinions on that.
I thoroughly enjoy your videos. I really liked that first merc. Beautiful coin. Thank you for these videos. I've learned a great deal from you sir. Thank you!
I have a 1924 PCGS M63 Peace Dollar that looks not as good that you showed. You got skunked is right. Nice to see vids on weekends. You are not getting rusty just frustrated. 1857 good looking coin.
One of the reasons I love your channel is that instead of blaming PCGS for everything you say things like "I guess I need to take grading lessons" you could have easily said PCGS is 100% wrong on the Peace Dollar I know its wrong they suck and whats going on over there. Keep on growing as a person and people respect positivity.
Your sense of humor and excitement is AWESOME. How then heck was that Peace Dollar only AU 58?!?!?! That was nuts. Really enjoyed this video for even if it has scared me off of grading for a while 😂🤣
There is no way that '24 peace dollar is not at least a 63/64 ..PCGS tougher than Chuck Norris!! Also,the Ben Franklin is one of the most impressive,beautiful ones I've seen too!!🤔🤔🤔
I think getting a pr 68 on a Franklin proof is outstanding, I would think about resubmitting that to NGC because the price difference between pr68 and pr 68 cameo is pretty substantial. I wish they could explain that 1924-S Peace Dollar, that coin looks better than 60 in my opinion.
As a collector who plans to leave his collection to his inheritors (grandchildren), I give premium value to graded/carded coins. Relative current values are readily available to non collectors. For silver stackers, some common silver coins, like common Morgan’s gain some value in being certified if not too expensive. Hold the carded Morgan in you hand and you have extra value, it’s a certified real silver Morgan. That is extra value.
Good morning Daniel from the shaky side of the country. Interesting to see, still some very nice coins there. Grading is always subjective, however, as a collector I think if the coin fits ones perspective and is happy with it that’s all that counts.
Hi Daniel, although I’m not a professional coin grader. I think your coins looks beautiful! Everyone of them seems to be under graded. I wonder if grading companies under value coin to preserve their reputation or does inconsistency play a huge role. Maybe they have an obligation to keep high graded coins population low! Brings strength and stability to the market.
Now i'm scared. I have about a dozen "Motel Soap-Bar" ANACS slabs (known to be highly under graded most of the time) that I want to send to PCGS (cracked out of coarse, as I dont want to show my hand).
How else do they get multiple submissions of the same coins if they don't at least occasionally fail to give cameos to cameo coins and/or significantly undergrade a coin?
I have a slight suspicion that major grading companies intentionally undergrade coins like that 1924-S Peace Dollar because if more BU grades join the existing population it will, in turn, devalue the overall grade like MS-60. Alot of coins jump in price going from 58 to 60. Not to say that adding one more 60 to the fold would justify a price drop but it might be that much closer. I could be wrong and maybe grading has become more strict on luster and those to close to call borderline coins but grading doesn't really change, only the eyes that grade it change. This is a big reason we need AI.
This explains how and why PCGS does it and what the standards are: www.randicoins.com/store/pc/Cameo-d22.htm I'd need to see the coin in person to determine but like all proofs it's pretty common especially after 1971, but pre-1971 the contrast would be exceptionally strong for the first 100 strikes of a die pair and then it would degrade and degrade to a point of no contrast and the die pair retired. This frankillin half from the video has a cameo contrast however proof coins are suppose to have this contrast. Ones that don't are inferior proof coins, ones that are weak areas showing the contrast degrading are inferior and won't get the cameo designation even if the cameo is present bit may grade high proof still, and one side could even be exceptional deep cameo but if the other side isn't cameo it won't get a cameo designation both sides must be equal in contrast. Not all proof coins are created equal and not all cameo proofs are created equal is the takeaway from it. In the end cameo and deep cameo are an appearance modifier to the grade, like red, red/brown or brown on Lincoln cents. There are grading sets at the graders for comparisons for consistency. A mistake many make is the assumption that since there is contrast it must be cameo and may even make deep cameo. This is a false assumption and there's more to be considered when it comes to cameo than just that or just one side of the coin. The fact is, collectors are biased. Sellers are notoriously lenient when grading their own coins, buyers are notoriously critical, it's the reason 3rd party graders are in business, but in the end, it's just another opinion from someone without skin in the game, they have been wrong also and if you crack out a coin and resubmit it may not come back the same opinion. It may go up it may go down. You pay them to make an opinion that's all. Even when buying graded coins people will argue with the opinion on the slab or people will "cherry pick" coins they feel were undergraded that they might resubmit and make money on. If it wasn't an opinion those things couldn't occur the grading would be solid with no wiggle room for haggling.
@@samsmobilepressurewashing8422 If anything I believe grading has become looser over time when they started "market grading" and making opinions on color, eye appeal, contrast, strike, and then comparables and saying "hey there's only so many at MS68 how does this compare to those? Oh it's just slightly not as nice, well I thought it was a MS68 but looking.. yeah better make it a MS67." By the standards it should be a MS68 grading strictly, but they decide it's not as nice as the ones they've graded at that grade so they limit it a grade lower instead, or a grade lower with a +.
@@sparkyjones560 I am no professional, just my opinion on examples like this video. The AU-58 debate is a constant issue and it changes the value, the need for AI to enter the coin grading scene is greater now than ever. I agree with you about some changes of luster and being able to judge that underneath toning in high grades like 67 or 68 on a Morgan. That is out of my discernment as far as being a judge. I dont look at ms68 examples enough to have an opinion because I cant afford them
Daniel. you go way too easy of these guys, I understand this is your business & these are your “Colleagues” 🤷🏻♂️so to speak. And I know it’s counter productive to discredit them or to call into question there judgment. but I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen somebody get a coin back at the grade that they had hoped or wanted, or thought that it should be! And the fact that they don’t have to give you any explanation whatsoever for basically giving your coin back, I love this one! I’m sure you don’t, but in the industry I believe that it is called “in a body bag!”- Meeting whatever grade- details!! In fact there’s only one immutable constant that I’ve noticed every time you send out coins, especially, PCGS!! you get screwed, Did you go on saying maybe you made a mistake or the judging criteria might be changing!🤔🤦🏽♂️you’re the most honest person I’ve met in the Biz of Numismatics! so I find it very hardTo believe or understand how every single time you send off coins to a large conglomerate! One who’s $driven & just makes up certifications Or qualifications when they can’t make it a grade higher!! “cameo” or “deep cameo”” CAC certified”-“certified BS”-“Internationally F.U.L.-O-chit”!! “Mierda 💩certified!” That 1932 quarter looks fine to me , I’m not there I’m not a professional like you, but that 56’Franklin, if that’s not a cameo 🤷🏻♂️I’m not leaving a real message right now! I think they’ve become too powerful and they just say whatever they want because there’s no recourse! somehow a NGC is considered to be a Lower value for what ,their opinion? All I’m saying is the sooner you get your website set up the way that you’ve described it to be! Digitally graded autonomously using AI or facial recognition, you’re gonna keep sending off your coins and getting them back one or two grades lower than you anticipated ! Despite the fact you’re more qualified to grade coins than 95% of those supposed 13 pairs of eyes, To double check each coin, or whatever BS those jackasses in those rooms, come up with!! I would be surprised if it’s a giant comedy session in there they just left and head out whatever grade they feel like just to confuse people!! I can’t bear to watch another video of you on Christmas morning opening up your present only to realize Old ST.CAC, he’s left you two lumps that that dark stuff in your stocking! At the end of the day though, I’m not CAC certified, nor am I a “cameo”or a “deep cameo” I don’t have full bands, or flames, No full steps,not even NGC almost fillve steps! and I don’t have full bell lines, or a BugsBunnyBenji? .. but those guys are full of shit!
I have seen many people having issues with PCGS grading. I don't think they grade fairly at all, and I have never even used their services before to be biased about it.
PCGS got the grade wrong on the 1924 - S it is a uncirculated coin . It should have at least graded M.S. - 61 or M.S. - 62 . Great job on the 1942 proof Mercury dime up grade to M.S. - 66 , it looks awesome . Daniel you have good grading skills the Franklin half should have got the cameo designation , its not you its the grading companies not being as consistent as they should be . I have seen coins that didn't look as good as your Franklin half get a cameo designation on the holder . The Peace dollar and the Franklin half are what aggravates me with the grading companies inconsistentcies . God Bless .
I agree about the 1924S, and have seen this before - looks to have some bag mark type friction and 62ish to me, the 1956 Franklin I agree as well that it def. (from the video) appears to have Cameo....
Respect your stoicism ... I'd be livid about the non-cameo desig for the Benji, and furious about the AU grade on the 24S Peace. Based on your experience, is NGC more lenient about providing a cameo designation? Have some Benji proofs I'm considering to send for grading, and I'll lean to NGC if they're more "forgiving" in their cameo assessments. Thanks in advance.
Here is an interesting question, “Which would you rather buy, the 19 Spotted/Toned Peace Dollars MS63 Daniel has on his website, or the very nice looking, let’s say they have graded correct, an AU58 Daniel shows in this video clip?
I think the real answer is the coin coffin companies spend about 10 seconds looking at your coin, and give a guess at a grade. Grading is the biggest scam in the hobby imho. They should just stick to pulling out their preordained amount of MS70 eagles, and telling everyone their coins are details and unworthy of the service you already paid for.
I like the look of NGC slabs a lot better looking than PCGS. What does everyone else think? Though I know that PCGS is more stricked and will demand a higher sell price with their grades.
I've seen PCGS Peace dollars in MS65 holders that look like XF to me. I think they are the toughest coins to grade. Been studying them for a while and still can't figure out some grades.
Great video. PCGS don't grade good. I think they are in a hurry and rush them. New west point quarters with scratches get better grades than old quarters with no scratches.
They have to be. The Franklin Half was Deep Cameo. You could see the dark fields. Cameo isn’t that dark. PCGS and NGC sometimes I don’t understand who they have looking at the coins at times. Cause the grades are terrible!
Even I think that coin is a cameo and I'm the pickiest buyer alive. He could try sending it to NGC but he's already got substantial grading costs in it.
OK watched the video and saw the coin. No way to tell the contrast or if the frosting is weak in areas from the video but the grading companies have grading sets as comparables for things like this for consistency. Not all Franklin half's are created equal and not all cameo Franklin half's are created equal either. It's possible to have a clear cameo and it not make the cut due to one side being weak or areas of weakness, or overall weakness in the frosting. But hey, it's an opinion. That's what you are paying for, a 3rd party to give you their opinion on the authenticity and grade.
i was totally unaware you could restore a coin and not have it be considered cleaned... other than something i heard about with acetone... how do you do that with proofs? e-zess ? Lol couldnt tell what you said exactly, was just wondering if it only removed toning or if it also removed the kind of dark dirty looking stuff from proofs that keeps it from reflecting?
Hope he does a video teaching us step by step how to do it. Starting with a regular 1971 hazed cloudy proof mint set as an experiment and send it for grading
I have heard of xylol being used as well, and the grading companies didn't label cleaned. So essentially this means that straight grades don't necessarily mean that something hasn't been used on the coin to increase its attractiveness lol
I sent some Morgans to NGC on November 11th. I guess I will get them back one of these days. But then they did find some PVC on one of them and it went off to NCS so that slowed things down somewhat. If it is a 3 month turnaround that is just 4 submissions a year. I am trying to learn so I don't want to send in more coins until I receive the submission I sent in.
There are a number of PR Mercury dimes that don't have full bands and often they are the object of bidding wars on eBay. Most people don't know to look for such problems. Here's a PR Mercury that's not even close to having full bands: www.pcgs.com/cert/37735165 There is also some flatness on the lower diagonal band on the fasces. Here's another PR that does have full bands but has some detail polished away, most visible in the "E Pluribus Unum" on the reverse: www.pcgs.com/cert/38474305 You have to watch for this because there will be no notation of such defects on the holder.
The 1924-S Peace dollar could have graded AU58 because of light, random hairlining in the fields. I have a Standing Liberty Quarter that shows no rub on the high points and full mint luster but does show hairlining in random directions. I agree that my coin is circulated because that type of hairlining couldn't happen in a mint bag. Maybe it was in someone's pocket for a few hours?? I can't see the surfaces of your coin well enough to see if there is hairlining or not. There is some kind of disturbance in the fields though it might just be due to toning.
I have noticed rounded off apprentice grades aswell......... Controversial.... indeed.... I have few coins, I've resubmitted over the years, having similar results.
If getting modern bullion coins graded for resale, which is best ngc or pcgs? Does it even matter? Because in the comic book world the difference between CGC and PGX is huge, CGC is way more respectable. By the way CGC and NGC are from the same parent company and having dealt with CGC before with good results I’m leaning towards NGC, but what’s your opinion Daniel?
Have you every sent in a coin you knew would not be worth grading or sent out currency to be graded? I’d like to see a video of any currency you sent for grading. I’d like to get some currency graded. Send your peace dollar to NGC and see what they grade it as.
Beautiful coins !how much PCGS Charge to grade your coins if I have 10 coins they charge per coin or per quantity or it doesn’t matter how many just one standard price! Do they clean them for you or you clean them before you send it out .please let me know,thank you!
Don’t grade it everyone needs to stop grading it now you should of send it in the day you got it from the mint I have two PCGS PR70DCAM V75 first strikes and the population is keep going higher if that happens prices are gonna drop
I think they ripped you off on the Peace Dollar, Franklin Half and Quarter! The Peace was definitely an MS coin! The Franklin was definitely Proof Cameo! And the Quarter did not look cleaned, as in luster less with hairlines cleaned. It may have looked dipped possibly, but I thought that was ok because they do it when they restore a coin! Daniel, I think they need to learn how to be honest about grading coins and it’s definitely not you! They just keep proving over and over again why any TPG system needs to be corrected to a system of accuracy and consistency! How intelligent people have ever fallen for and paid over and over again such a flawed, flimflammed system of coin grading is really hard to imagine! I know it’s hard not to send your coin into them when you look at your coin and compare it to the other already graded like coins worth so much money! You dream of getting it back graded at least the same or even higher! But you get it back and they’ve killed it with details they cannot even explain! Please understand, they have to do it because the current system is flawed! There can only be so many high top graded coins or they would all be worth a lot less based on the current value system! The flawed system effects the value of every new graded like coin! The only alternative is to under grade or detail your coin in order to manage the values of the already graded coins! They also have the incentive to make more money, if you want to send it back to get a second opinion, crack it out to send to their friends at the other grading companies, or possibly pick only a winner for any number of reasons and so on! Currently they hold the power over everything about your coin! I don’t think it’s right!
Can you make an updated video about the 2020 West Point v95 quarters. I watched a marsh Billings one sell for one for 900 on eBay . It was graded ms67. Still think they won’t be worth anything one day? Are these high sells still just hype? Curious what you think.
My Coin Shop Website portsmouthcoinshop.com/
Mint State UA-cam Channel ua-cam.com/channels/YYiBSXFIqynR2zren_pIlQ.html
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The grading problem isn't with Daniel ...it's with PCGS. They only give top grades to their dealers and family. That's why you see crappy PCGS graded coins with high grades on them. I own a few that I bought when I was a new collector. If they were cracked out and resubmitted, they might come back in body bags.
Which is why I stick with NGC.
Question: Do you think that NGC does the same thing?
Good Morning Daniel!!🍵 I don't know if grading companies know how to grade money, but they sure know how to make it!!😠
You and Ben the coin geek should plan on getting together and overthrowing the grading companies
Lol
Sold all of my graded type coins years ago. Will never pay to have my coins holdered. They can keep their opinions to them self. I can buy so much more without there opinion. Mine is the one that matters. I'm not selling anything
Amen brother!
Do you ever wonder if they pulled a switcheroo on you and kept your 68+ or 69 and gave you one of their 66 or 67's so they could sell it for big money or keep it for one of their buds high end collections?
Hahahha I have lol, or to give it to their top bulk submission dealers 🤔🤔🧐🤓👀
@@ultrahighreliefcoinrollhun9623 Everything else has become so corrupted that it's getting hard to trust anyone when money is involved.
No I don't
I wish the grading companys would send back what problems they saw and why it got the grade it got, for the price, they could say like for example "minor scratch about date" ,"scuffing on cheek" etc.
I'm with you on that! The first company to do that will run off with the market i think.
@@rickgeeprofitcoins6794 Also what do you think about computer/ electronical type grading, they could have a database of all graded examples put the coin under laser/etc and have 1 machine that grades all of the coins so it's not just a bunch of different numismatic experts verifying/arguing about grades, I just think for the money that a MS64 - MS65+ or evn more $ a grade of a MS66 coin compared to a MS66+ or MS67 can be HUGE !!
@@SilverBull30 that would be cool, it would take some super high tech equipment. But, you just never know.
Always enjoy the opening of a box from PCGS
and your comments. U did well on conserving the 41 mercury dime proof. +++
Thanks for the excitement! That was fun for me but you, guessing not as much!😊 Lots of Love Bobbi 😊👍🏼
That franklin half at the end is totally a cameo. Some PCGS staffer clearly needs a comprehensive eye exam.
Personally I would prefer the smaller boxes as it gives more flexibility for storage. Nice bunch of flips Daniel.
Another Awesome Video, Thanks for sharing!!!
That Benji was gorgeous! Must have been graded by a new grader. 😊
I know you are a very good grader.
My trust level in PCGS over the past year and a half or so has deteriorated somewhat.
The Franklin IS cameo.
A person cannot tell what the grade of a coin is just by looking at it in this video, there is magnification involved. The four coins I liked the most was the Trade, and Peace Dollar, the Winged Liberty Dime, and the Franklin. I like to get nice looking AU Graded coins...
I'm getting better at pre-grading before submission. I bought a 2019-W Frank Church Idaho Quarter from eBay which I wanted to add to a full set ....but got looking at it... and thought it would come close to a top pop. It recently got a PCGS MS67, meaning only 2 coins 67+ are above it. To me, the strike quality is a must, as you frequently state. Thanks for the fine content!
Fun unboxing!! The grading game is brutal but you still got back some nice grades 😁👍
Tell me about it
I just don't know how to grade a coin. That Peace 58 AU looked like a MS 60++++++ . That Benie really looked like a deep cameo on film. I can only imagine in person. Who can we trust? MINT STATE TECH ?
Love unboxing of graded coins...thanks for sharing and take care, Daniel 🙌
I think you are right about the 1924-S. It looks at least MS-60 but I cannot see scratches. Luster seems fine and obtrusive marks seem to be at a minimum. I can't see any high-point wear either.
I am just learning grading but yours looks great to me. I don't have any worth grading but I do have a few graded coins for me to learn and compare with. Great information though, for this amateur.
Good morning Daniel , you have fabulous information as always... sadly I have to start all over with my wheat cent collection as they all vanished from storage...
I'm not the smartest nor most experienced fella in the room....That Franklin was gorgeous! If it was laying on the table I'd of said cameo.
Brian I would have put my 40-some years experience on the line thinking that was about a 99% at least cameo. I'm perplexed. That's the main reason I never gave customers opinions on that.
Start to improve your smartness by using "I'd have".
I thoroughly enjoy your videos. I really liked that first merc. Beautiful coin. Thank you for these videos. I've learned a great deal from you sir. Thank you!
I have a 1924 PCGS M63 Peace Dollar that looks not as good that you showed. You got skunked is right. Nice to see vids on weekends. You are not getting rusty just frustrated. 1857 good looking coin.
I have a 1924 PCGS MS64 Peace Dollar. You got screwed big time on that grade. Crack it out. To pay good money
to let them devalue your coin is a joke!
One of the reasons I love your channel is that instead of blaming PCGS for everything you say things like "I guess I need to take grading lessons" you could have easily said PCGS is 100% wrong on the Peace Dollar I know its wrong they suck and whats going on over there. Keep on growing as a person and people respect positivity.
That Franklin is a Cameo
Yep. And it’s crazy PCGS didn’t designate it as such.
Your sense of humor and excitement is AWESOME. How then heck was that Peace Dollar only AU 58?!?!?! That was nuts. Really enjoyed this video for even if it has scared me off of grading for a while 😂🤣
I agree with most of those grades except the
1924s I have at ms62
1956 type 2 at pr67 Cameo
Always great to start my day with a video from Daniel! God Bless and GO BUCKS!
There is no way that '24 peace dollar is not at least a 63/64 ..PCGS tougher than Chuck Norris!!
Also,the Ben Franklin is one of the most impressive,beautiful ones I've seen too!!🤔🤔🤔
If curiosity killed the cat, it was his nine-lives that brought him back.
The Franklin wasn't Cameo?? Perhaps you should tout this as a horror movie. Love your enthusiasm and thanks for sharing some nice coins with us.
Thanks for sharing, I always enjoy these types of videos.
@Coinhelpu Good morning sir Daniel ! Those are some sweet looking coins ! Thank you for a great video
I think getting a pr 68 on a Franklin proof is outstanding, I would think about resubmitting that to NGC because the price difference between pr68 and pr 68 cameo is pretty substantial. I wish they could explain that 1924-S Peace Dollar, that coin looks better than 60 in my opinion.
"Humble" makes for great videos lol!...and learning too, thank you for this, enjoyed!!!
As a collector who plans to leave his collection to his inheritors (grandchildren), I give premium value to graded/carded coins. Relative current values are readily available to non collectors. For silver stackers, some common silver coins, like common Morgan’s gain some value in being certified if not too expensive. Hold the carded Morgan in you hand and you have extra value, it’s a certified real silver Morgan. That is extra value.
Can't believe that Franklin didn't get a cameo.
I got one of the little white boxes back with my last submission. I actually like them!
Good morning Daniel from the shaky side of the country. Interesting to see, still some very nice coins there. Grading is always subjective, however, as a collector I think if the coin fits ones perspective and is happy with it that’s all that counts.
great vlog, i like the ngc silver and blue plastic cases. some great results on the mercury dimes
If I was a cat I would have been dead long ago. Daniel I think I remember you talking about how grading coins could be traumatic. Great video.
Hi Daniel, although I’m not a professional coin grader. I think your coins looks beautiful! Everyone of them seems to be under graded. I wonder if grading companies under value coin to preserve their reputation or does inconsistency play a huge role. Maybe they have an obligation to keep high graded coins population low! Brings strength and stability to the market.
Always love your videos, and I always lean something!!! Thanks. I find it seems like PCGS has been a little inconsistent lately.....
No need to retake grading lessons Daniel. Pcgs is really difficult to tell how they might grade. Changes with the season I believe. Lol
Now i'm scared. I have about a dozen "Motel Soap-Bar" ANACS slabs (known to be highly under graded most of the time) that I want to send to PCGS (cracked out of coarse, as I dont want to show my hand).
Highly undergraded is a stretch 😬
I’d say 25% of the time they are a little bit undergraded and 25% overgraded and half time spot on
The Franklin is a cameo
I think they were in a bad mood when they graded your coins lol
How else do they get multiple submissions of the same coins if they don't at least occasionally fail to give cameos to cameo coins and/or significantly undergrade a coin?
I have a slight suspicion that major grading companies intentionally undergrade coins like that 1924-S Peace Dollar because if more BU grades join the existing population it will, in turn, devalue the overall grade like MS-60. Alot of coins jump in price going from 58 to 60. Not to say that adding one more 60 to the fold would justify a price drop but it might be that much closer. I could be wrong and maybe grading has become more strict on luster and those to close to call borderline coins but grading doesn't really change, only the eyes that grade it change. This is a big reason we need AI.
This explains how and why PCGS does it and what the standards are: www.randicoins.com/store/pc/Cameo-d22.htm
I'd need to see the coin in person to determine but like all proofs it's pretty common especially after 1971, but pre-1971 the contrast would be exceptionally strong for the first 100 strikes of a die pair and then it would degrade and degrade to a point of no contrast and the die pair retired.
This frankillin half from the video has a cameo contrast however proof coins are suppose to have this contrast. Ones that don't are inferior proof coins, ones that are weak areas showing the contrast degrading are inferior and won't get the cameo designation even if the cameo is present bit may grade high proof still, and one side could even be exceptional deep cameo but if the other side isn't cameo it won't get a cameo designation both sides must be equal in contrast.
Not all proof coins are created equal and not all cameo proofs are created equal is the takeaway from it. In the end cameo and deep cameo are an appearance modifier to the grade, like red, red/brown or brown on Lincoln cents. There are grading sets at the graders for comparisons for consistency. A mistake many make is the assumption that since there is contrast it must be cameo and may even make deep cameo. This is a false assumption and there's more to be considered when it comes to cameo than just that or just one side of the coin.
The fact is, collectors are biased. Sellers are notoriously lenient when grading their own coins, buyers are notoriously critical, it's the reason 3rd party graders are in business, but in the end, it's just another opinion from someone without skin in the game, they have been wrong also and if you crack out a coin and resubmit it may not come back the same opinion. It may go up it may go down. You pay them to make an opinion that's all. Even when buying graded coins people will argue with the opinion on the slab or people will "cherry pick" coins they feel were undergraded that they might resubmit and make money on. If it wasn't an opinion those things couldn't occur the grading would be solid with no wiggle room for haggling.
@@samsmobilepressurewashing8422
If anything I believe grading has become looser over time when they started "market grading" and making opinions on color, eye appeal, contrast, strike, and then comparables and saying "hey there's only so many at MS68 how does this compare to those? Oh it's just slightly not as nice, well I thought it was a MS68 but looking.. yeah better make it a MS67." By the standards it should be a MS68 grading strictly, but they decide it's not as nice as the ones they've graded at that grade so they limit it a grade lower instead, or a grade lower with a +.
@@sparkyjones560 I am no professional, just my opinion on examples like this video. The AU-58 debate is a constant issue and it changes the value, the need for AI to enter the coin grading scene is greater now than ever. I agree with you about some changes of luster and being able to judge that underneath toning in high grades like 67 or 68 on a Morgan. That is out of my discernment as far as being a judge. I dont look at ms68 examples enough to have an opinion because I cant afford them
Daniel. you go way too easy of these guys, I understand this is your business & these are your “Colleagues” 🤷🏻♂️so to speak. And I know it’s counter productive to discredit them or to call into question there judgment. but I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen somebody get a coin back at the grade that they had hoped or wanted, or thought that it should be! And the fact that they don’t have to give you any explanation whatsoever for basically giving your coin back, I love this one! I’m sure you don’t, but in the industry I believe that it is called “in a body bag!”- Meeting whatever grade- details!! In fact there’s only one immutable constant that I’ve noticed every time you send out coins, especially, PCGS!! you get screwed, Did you go on saying maybe you made a mistake or the judging criteria might be changing!🤔🤦🏽♂️you’re the most honest person I’ve met in the Biz of Numismatics! so I find it very hardTo believe or understand how every single time you send off coins to a large conglomerate! One who’s $driven & just makes up certifications Or qualifications when they can’t make it a grade higher!! “cameo” or “deep cameo”” CAC certified”-“certified BS”-“Internationally F.U.L.-O-chit”!! “Mierda 💩certified!” That 1932 quarter looks fine to me , I’m not there I’m not a professional like you, but that 56’Franklin, if that’s not a cameo 🤷🏻♂️I’m not leaving a real message right now! I think they’ve become too powerful and they just say whatever they want because there’s no recourse! somehow a NGC is considered to be a Lower value for what ,their opinion? All I’m saying is the sooner you get your website set up the way that you’ve described it to be! Digitally graded autonomously using AI or facial recognition, you’re gonna keep sending off your coins and getting them back one or two grades lower than you anticipated ! Despite the fact you’re more qualified to grade coins than 95% of those supposed 13 pairs of eyes, To double check each coin, or whatever BS those jackasses in those rooms, come up with!! I would be surprised if it’s a giant comedy session in there they just left and head out whatever grade they feel like just to confuse people!! I can’t bear to watch another video of you on Christmas morning opening up your present only to realize Old ST.CAC, he’s left you two lumps that that dark stuff in your stocking! At the end of the day though, I’m not CAC certified, nor am I a “cameo”or a “deep cameo” I don’t have full bands, or flames, No full steps,not even NGC almost fillve steps! and I don’t have full bell lines, or a BugsBunnyBenji? .. but those guys are full of shit!
Most coins I send come back as I expect, I just don't show all of my submissions, just the ones that have some head scratchers.
Those dimes are beautiful!
Good morning and good luck
I have seen many people having issues with PCGS grading. I don't think they grade fairly at all, and I have never even used their services before to be biased about it.
PCGS got the grade wrong on the 1924 - S it is a uncirculated coin . It should have at least graded M.S. - 61 or M.S. - 62 . Great job on the 1942 proof Mercury dime up grade to M.S. - 66 , it looks awesome . Daniel you have good grading skills the Franklin half should have got the cameo designation , its not you its the grading companies not being as consistent as they should be . I have seen coins that didn't look as good as your Franklin half get a cameo designation on the holder . The Peace dollar and the Franklin half are what aggravates me with the grading companies inconsistentcies . God Bless .
I hope I'm not the only one who loves dark toning, blackened silver is my favorite I always go for it
I agree about the 1924S, and have seen this before - looks to have some bag mark type friction and 62ish to me, the 1956 Franklin I agree as well that it def. (from the video) appears to have Cameo....
I use anacs as a direction for grading on some coins before sending them to pcgs. mostly on eagles,proof quarters and vams
What are the best gloves for silver coin collectors to wear when handling coins?
You don't need to wear gloves
Maybe, and I'm not saying its true... but it seems like how high a coin grades has more to do with who sends it in than the condition of the coin.
No one can prove that but many people say it
Respect your stoicism ... I'd be livid about the non-cameo desig for the Benji, and furious about the AU grade on the 24S Peace. Based on your experience, is NGC more lenient about providing a cameo designation? Have some Benji proofs I'm considering to send for grading, and I'll lean to NGC if they're more "forgiving" in their cameo assessments. Thanks in advance.
I think NGC is but really haven't tried them
Here is an interesting question, “Which would you rather buy, the 19 Spotted/Toned Peace Dollars MS63 Daniel has on his website, or the very nice looking, let’s say they have graded correct, an AU58 Daniel shows in this video clip?
I think the real answer is the coin coffin companies spend about 10 seconds looking at your coin, and give a guess at a grade. Grading is the biggest scam in the hobby imho. They should just stick to pulling out their preordained amount of MS70 eagles, and telling everyone their coins are details and unworthy of the service you already paid for.
How much was the PCGS coin submission cost for you for each coin?
You must go to PCGS and see their grading tiers and shipping costs.
Nice video, Daniel. Not so nice results from PCGS! Great coins. JJ
I like the look of NGC slabs a lot better looking than PCGS. What does everyone else think? Though I know that PCGS is more stricked and will demand a higher sell price with their grades.
Nice flip on the MS 68
I've seen PCGS Peace dollars in MS65 holders that look like XF to me. I think they are the toughest coins to grade. Been studying them for a while and still can't figure out some grades.
Great video. PCGS don't grade good. I think they are in a hurry and rush them. New west point quarters with scratches get better grades than old quarters with no scratches.
Great vids, you got me interested, just ordered the $200 grab from you 🤞
Thank you!
Love all the videos coming out!
I have to agree with Benjamin that's cam
Don't sweat it Daniel. Those are still some nice coins.
Lol...for for some of us it's like being a kid on Christmas.
PCGS is so annoying when it comes to cameos. Are they blind ?
They have to be. The Franklin Half was Deep Cameo. You could see the dark fields. Cameo isn’t that dark. PCGS and NGC sometimes I don’t understand who they have looking at the coins at times. Cause the grades are terrible!
Even I think that coin is a cameo and I'm the pickiest buyer alive. He could try sending it to NGC but he's already got substantial grading costs in it.
OK watched the video and saw the coin. No way to tell the contrast or if the frosting is weak in areas from the video but the grading companies have grading sets as comparables for things like this for consistency. Not all Franklin half's are created equal and not all cameo Franklin half's are created equal either. It's possible to have a clear cameo and it not make the cut due to one side being weak or areas of weakness, or overall weakness in the frosting.
But hey, it's an opinion. That's what you are paying for, a 3rd party to give you their opinion on the authenticity and grade.
Yeah, im not good at guessing what is good, or not, to have graded. Had a couple errors graded, "Scratches" but attributed.
i was totally unaware you could restore a coin and not have it be considered cleaned... other than something i heard about with acetone... how do you do that with proofs? e-zess ? Lol couldnt tell what you said exactly, was just wondering if it only removed toning or if it also removed the kind of dark dirty looking stuff from proofs that keeps it from reflecting?
Hope he does a video teaching us step by step how to do it. Starting with a regular 1971 hazed cloudy proof mint set as an experiment and send it for grading
I have heard of xylol being used as well, and the grading companies didn't label cleaned. So essentially this means that straight grades don't necessarily mean that something hasn't been used on the coin to increase its attractiveness lol
@@shanedaniel7 yeah xylene is used on copper cents to remove spotting, it's not good for much anything else, but I get what ya mean lol
I have videos where I show this
@@CoinHELPu Thank you Daniel, I found them, next time will look and search twice in your site before asking 😁👀
That Franklin sure looks cameo to me. And that cost you a few bucks in the price difference.
I sent some Morgans to NGC on November 11th. I guess I will get them back one of these days. But then they did find some PVC on one of them and it went off to NCS so that slowed things down somewhat. If it is a 3 month turnaround that is just 4 submissions a year. I am trying to learn so I don't want to send in more coins until I receive the submission I sent in.
There are a number of PR Mercury dimes that don't have full bands and often they are the object of bidding wars on eBay. Most people don't know to look for such problems. Here's a PR Mercury that's not even close to having full bands: www.pcgs.com/cert/37735165 There is also some flatness on the lower diagonal band on the fasces. Here's another PR that does have full bands but has some detail polished away, most visible in the "E Pluribus Unum" on the reverse: www.pcgs.com/cert/38474305 You have to watch for this because there will be no notation of such defects on the holder.
Yes, there's some examples but they're far and few in between
Keep up the great videos bud
Very good. I enjoyed this video.
I'm sorry about your Buckeyes.
Thanks but Bama was something else
Do you think those proof Mercury dimes might retone overtime. or do you think they'll be okay for 10 twenty years
I haven't had them Redstone, if they're going to they usually d9 in a couple days. But who knows how they might be stored by someone else.
The 1924-S Peace dollar could have graded AU58 because of light, random hairlining in the fields. I have a Standing Liberty Quarter that shows no rub on the high points and full mint luster but does show hairlining in random directions. I agree that my coin is circulated because that type of hairlining couldn't happen in a mint bag. Maybe it was in someone's pocket for a few hours?? I can't see the surfaces of your coin well enough to see if there is hairlining or not. There is some kind of disturbance in the fields though it might just be due to toning.
AU is a circulated coin, marks don't make and MS coin become AU it must have wear on the highest points.
Apparently the white boxes are for proofs
Where the heck did you find the Mercury proofs?
I buy from other dealers and go to coin shows
I have noticed rounded off apprentice grades aswell.........
Controversial.... indeed....
I have few coins, I've resubmitted over the years, having similar results.
If getting modern bullion coins graded for resale, which is best ngc or pcgs? Does it even matter? Because in the comic book world the difference between CGC and PGX is huge, CGC is way more respectable. By the way CGC and NGC are from the same parent company and having dealt with CGC before with good results I’m leaning towards NGC, but what’s your opinion Daniel?
Doesn't matter
Cool they were all authentic sad they were cleaned me personally i would neer buy a cleaned coin
When you're a coin dealer they come in collections.
thanks Daniel, love your videos
Have you every sent in a coin you knew would not be worth grading or sent out currency to be graded? I’d like to see a video of any currency you sent for grading. I’d like to get some currency graded. Send your peace dollar to NGC and see what they grade it as.
No I haven't
Getting coins graded makes your hair turn white with stress lol
Beautiful coins !how much PCGS Charge to grade your coins if I have 10 coins they charge per coin or per quantity or it doesn’t matter how many just one standard price! Do they clean them for you or you clean them before you send it out .please let me know,thank you!
You need to go to PCGS website and see their membership fees and fees for different coins and services to know that
Were can I get my coins graded from PCGS? I can’t find out from there website?
Then give them a call.
What’s your opinion of the v75 silver eagle proof… to grade or not to grade?
Don’t grade it everyone needs to stop grading it now you should of send it in the day you got it from the mint I have two PCGS PR70DCAM V75 first strikes and the population is keep going higher if that happens prices are gonna drop
Don't grade
CoinHELPu Yeah… I was leaning that way. Thanks very much for your input.
That Franklin is a Cameo I'd get it graded by a different grading company
That 24-S Peace Dollar was at least a MS 61/62. SMH!
Go Ohio State!
I think they ripped you off on the Peace Dollar, Franklin Half and Quarter! The Peace was definitely an MS coin! The Franklin was definitely Proof Cameo! And the Quarter did not look cleaned, as in luster less with hairlines cleaned. It may have looked dipped possibly, but I thought that was ok because they do it when they restore a coin! Daniel, I think they need to learn how to be honest about grading coins and it’s definitely not you! They just keep proving over and over again why any TPG system needs to be corrected to a system of accuracy and consistency! How intelligent people have ever fallen for and paid over and over again such a flawed, flimflammed system of coin grading is really hard to imagine! I know it’s hard not to send your coin into them when you look at your coin and compare it to the other already graded like coins worth so much money! You dream of getting it back graded at least the same or even higher! But you get it back and they’ve killed it with details they cannot even explain! Please understand, they have to do it because the current system is flawed! There can only be so many high top graded coins or they would all be worth a lot less based on the current value system! The flawed system effects the value of every new graded like coin! The only alternative is to under grade or detail your coin in order to manage the values of the already graded coins! They also have the incentive to make more money, if you want to send it back to get a second opinion, crack it out to send to their friends at the other grading companies, or possibly pick only a winner for any number of reasons and so on! Currently they hold the power over everything about your coin! I don’t think it’s right!
Can you make an updated video about the 2020 West Point v95 quarters. I watched a marsh Billings one sell for one for 900 on eBay . It was graded ms67. Still think they won’t be worth anything one day? Are these high sells still just hype? Curious what you think.
Wait until next year
I have graded coins with higher grades and they don't look nearly as good as the ones you had graded. Especially the Peace Dollar you showed first.
What is the infatuation with PCGS? NGC and ANACS are better in my opinion, in terms of accuracy, cost and the turnaround time.
Maybe but coins sell for more in PCGS holders on the average, especially for modern coins.