Fellow store manager here! The distribution point gave me flashbacks to the dumpster fire that was the Lorcana release. I personally always say nice things about my local competitors, regardless of how they talk about us. I've always felt that having healthy relationships with other shops is way better than trying to compete against them (where applicable, of course). My shop and others in the area will often ask each other what days we hold certain events and try to plan around each other where we can, so there's no stepping on toes!
All of what I say below is based on WTC. I massively agree with threat overload being critical. I was successfully playing lists based around 18 Bullgryn, 20-30 RRs, Straken-Nork Brick, Solar Melee brick, couple of Russes and lots of solo 10 man Catachan to either score/score deny or ensure I get first turn charge/neuter fights first. The Catachan being a screen ahead allowed me to base the threat overload in the turn I wanted to. If the opponent didn't move to deal with them then they were just throwing Primary VP at me (and Secondary VP since 8/16 of the secondaries could/had to be done on primaries), and then I could quickly smash into the opponents units. I basically built it as a counter to WE and it ended up working against pretty much everything. Whether it was elite melee such as WE or Custodes; fast MSU such as Eldar; Horde melee such as the post codex Orks; Shooty lists such as Tau and other Guard; Mass Monsters/Vehicles such as Knights/Ironstorm/Crusher; even Ctan or Wraith spam as I just killed the wraiths and out-OCd them. The only army it continuously struggled against was DG (due to -1T, -1to hit, 2+ indirect vehicles that were amazing against RRs, Grenades, FF etc😂). Pre Pariah, I was on 12-3 in tournament games, including finishing 1st in a 60 man tourney. Had even better results in competitive friendlies. The list was entirely built around threat overload. MMM order massively helped this. Very few armies could deal with it. I also agree not thinking about trading for points - with Scout and MMM, Catachan can completely deny non JP armies any reasonable movement and screen across the whole board to stop armies like WE getting the charge. By doing so I gain no 'points', but it puts me massively ahead in the game. Hiding really works with the Catachan too on NML obs against shooty armies. Opponents have to come and dig them out or I'll massively outscore them, and if they do my mass of melee units will rip them apart. I've now collected, but not played a DA army consisting of max Black Knights, max DWKs, max Scouts and an Azrael-Companion unit. With Stornlance strats making Black Knights unreal and the detachment rule making up for the DWKs lack of speed, it should function very similar to my melee guard style, but with tougher more lethal units with less numbers.
Guard has been significantly better than the average player has thought all edition! They just "really" need to be positioned correctly as you have elucidated here!
I lost too many games with my orks, trying the Trade game hahaha. With Nids, I am used to the hiding game but I never actually could hold my Ork-Brain back to do it. Will definately give it a go next time ;) Great video, keep rolling!
Your channel helped me more then once brother, thank you! I play orks, and Lately I find myself losing more and more mainly due to bad placement and over exposing myself to shooting. Not to mention playing against the golden boys :P
I love Your Channel and Your approach to teaching and explaining tactics and strategy. Which of suggested Concept should I use playing vs orks to succed (I can play, custo, lov, vang marines and tyranids)
Inverting threat overload you can see why it works. As in, it's the 300 Spartans fighting in a corridor as you as the Persians present one squad at a time to be deleted. Creating a funnel where one didn't need to exist
great brakedown! Its definitly nice to have some tactical concepts for different situations. I think its easier to decide which concept to use when you look at the threat ranges. BA have a gigantic threat range thats why it is easy to hide/stage them and charge
As an Aeldari player I don't bother to trade up. I just try to kill whatever I'm going to have a problem with later. This generally means killing tanks. I then just delete whatever unit my opponent dropped on Primary while hunting down their Secondary scoring unit. It's not the player who killed the most that wins. It's the player with the most victory points. If my opponent doesn't score, I win.
Hey, I'm a huge fan of your channel. I've been playing 40k for a few months and I have gotten fairly decent in the game, especially after watching some of your teaching videos. Your aggressive playstyles strongly resonates with my preferred style of play (I main Blood Angels), and out of the other excellent 40k teaching groups, I am seriously considering becoming a member because of it. Does being a member mean I could schedule games to play and learn (via TTS) with other more experienced members to further hone my skills in the game?
Thanks, it's nice having things I'm aware of, but a bit fuzzy on, so clearly articulated like this. How would you describe Thousand Sons approach? Combination of hiding and "one sided trades"?
I’m going to try an odd da big hunt list, two kommando units for board control and letting my scouts forward, Zod with 20 gretchin, the 9 inch scout Squig brick, then Moz solo, ghaz, killrig with proper killy beastboss. Then just a bunch of scoring units This is a pretty elite army and I could see it going wrong but I was just want the chance to put 9 squigs in the deployment zone turn 1. Warhorde would probably be better. probably a threat overlord type of army as it’s hard to hide everything listed
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 yeah I’m lacking beast snagga units, idk what id use the points on thought about throwing deffkoptas in or more meganobz for ghaz? Last couple times I’ve used only 2 and they’ve died to random mortal wounds for explosions. But the nerf was so harsh
Great video as always. Is it worth playing gladius with codex space marine. I’m typical a .500 win guy but lately have been getting my butt whooped. Thinking of switching to blue Templars
Would you advise threat overload with tau, you uf you use infiltrating screen to block movement, then follow up to take primary and destroy the biggest threats?
Do you think its possible to do the Hiding options with units that cant move through walls, such as greater daemons and blood crushers? Some armies, such as daemons, have their hardest hitting units unable to move through walls. Is this viable still for them or too hard?
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 my man keeps up with the replies! Thanks so much dude. I will try to bate them with a Russ or something just to have my rogal d’s swing them the next turn?
Control style strategies aren't a game flaw. Not engaging at all turn one means you might not do anything on your first turn if you go first. Since deployment is before knowing who went first, you are either stay hidden, or you come out an expose yourself. Also, no matter where you hide, some armies can get to you. Aeldari go very fast. Grey Knights going second on you can Teleport to you and shoot and charge. Hiding is risking tempo for safety.
@@thetimebinder The flaw is in the fact that there is so much damage and moblity in BAs (f.e.), that an army like this can afford to do nothing and still almost table the opposing army in one turn, with barely any setup / counter play.
Don't pick a army with low chance of a model update and has a not working rule system. Had multiple friends quit this edition, because they played a Deathwing, white scar etc army. If l knew someone playing deathwatch they probably would had quit too.
Deathwing had an entire range refresh 5 months ago? White scars are just a part of the standard space marines army, just with more bikes. Deathwatch, fair, they need some help
Fellow store manager here! The distribution point gave me flashbacks to the dumpster fire that was the Lorcana release.
I personally always say nice things about my local competitors, regardless of how they talk about us. I've always felt that having healthy relationships with other shops is way better than trying to compete against them (where applicable, of course). My shop and others in the area will often ask each other what days we hold certain events and try to plan around each other where we can, so there's no stepping on toes!
Great quick but in-depth video Jon! Thanks big guy 💪🏼 always quality and always on the ball !
my pleasure!
Thanks for the concept video! I've gotta really think about which of the last 2 strategies I wanna focus on any given game!
It certainly changes a TON based off terrain and opponent!
@Happykrumpingwargaming007 man this game is so complex! The more I learn the more I find I have to learn!
All of what I say below is based on WTC.
I massively agree with threat overload being critical. I was successfully playing lists based around 18 Bullgryn, 20-30 RRs, Straken-Nork Brick, Solar Melee brick, couple of Russes and lots of solo 10 man Catachan to either score/score deny or ensure I get first turn charge/neuter fights first.
The Catachan being a screen ahead allowed me to base the threat overload in the turn I wanted to. If the opponent didn't move to deal with them then they were just throwing Primary VP at me (and Secondary VP since 8/16 of the secondaries could/had to be done on primaries), and then I could quickly smash into the opponents units.
I basically built it as a counter to WE and it ended up working against pretty much everything. Whether it was elite melee such as WE or Custodes; fast MSU such as Eldar; Horde melee such as the post codex Orks; Shooty lists such as Tau and other Guard; Mass Monsters/Vehicles such as Knights/Ironstorm/Crusher; even Ctan or Wraith spam as I just killed the wraiths and out-OCd them. The only army it continuously struggled against was DG (due to -1T, -1to hit, 2+ indirect vehicles that were amazing against RRs, Grenades, FF etc😂).
Pre Pariah, I was on 12-3 in tournament games, including finishing 1st in a 60 man tourney. Had even better results in competitive friendlies. The list was entirely built around threat overload. MMM order massively helped this. Very few armies could deal with it.
I also agree not thinking about trading for points - with Scout and MMM, Catachan can completely deny non JP armies any reasonable movement and screen across the whole board to stop armies like WE getting the charge. By doing so I gain no 'points', but it puts me massively ahead in the game.
Hiding really works with the Catachan too on NML obs against shooty armies. Opponents have to come and dig them out or I'll massively outscore them, and if they do my mass of melee units will rip them apart.
I've now collected, but not played a DA army consisting of max Black Knights, max DWKs, max Scouts and an Azrael-Companion unit. With Stornlance strats making Black Knights unreal and the detachment rule making up for the DWKs lack of speed, it should function very similar to my melee guard style, but with tougher more lethal units with less numbers.
Guard has been significantly better than the average player has thought all edition! They just "really" need to be positioned correctly as you have elucidated here!
I lost too many games with my orks, trying the Trade game hahaha.
With Nids, I am used to the hiding game but I never actually could hold my Ork-Brain back to do it. Will definately give it a go next time ;)
Great video, keep rolling!
haha Ork brain is 100% a thing i have fallen victim too!
Your channel helped me more then once brother, thank you! I play orks, and Lately I find myself losing more and more mainly due to bad placement and over exposing myself to shooting. Not to mention playing against the golden boys :P
keep going my man! Work on that positioning, it is EVERYTHING
I love Your Channel and Your approach to teaching and explaining tactics and strategy. Which of suggested Concept should I use playing vs orks to succed (I can play, custo, lov, vang marines and tyranids)
thats a long format question bud! Happy to help you in a coaching call! Book at the KoFi link in the video description!
Inverting threat overload you can see why it works. As in, it's the 300 Spartans fighting in a corridor as you as the Persians present one squad at a time to be deleted. Creating a funnel where one didn't need to exist
great brakedown! Its definitly nice to have some tactical concepts for different situations. I think its easier to decide which concept to use when you look at the threat ranges. BA have a gigantic threat range thats why it is easy to hide/stage them and charge
yeah threat range is a huuuuuge benefit.
As an Aeldari player I don't bother to trade up. I just try to kill whatever I'm going to have a problem with later. This generally means killing tanks. I then just delete whatever unit my opponent dropped on Primary while hunting down their Secondary scoring unit. It's not the player who killed the most that wins. It's the player with the most victory points. If my opponent doesn't score, I win.
this is accurate
This has assisted me greatly, playing Nids against my mate’s Necrons and been getting my ass handed to me. Definitely gonna use this vid 😊
smash it baby
Hey, I'm a huge fan of your channel.
I've been playing 40k for a few months and I have gotten fairly decent in the game, especially after watching some of your teaching videos. Your aggressive playstyles strongly resonates with my preferred style of play (I main Blood Angels), and out of the other excellent 40k teaching groups, I am seriously considering becoming a member because of it. Does being a member mean I could schedule games to play and learn (via TTS) with other more experienced members to further hone my skills in the game?
hey bud, yeah you can also participate in our member only tournaments, and get access to our daily conversations!
Thank you. It was an exciting video. Until next time.
cheers bud
Thanks for the video. I have a game today and try these concepts. But it'd be hard, because I'm going to play imperial knights :)
same philosophies apply!
I’m hoping i can now try hiding strategy againts Astra. Indirect pushed me to play BA like Worldeaters. 😂
Thanks, it's nice having things I'm aware of, but a bit fuzzy on, so clearly articulated like this. How would you describe Thousand Sons approach? Combination of hiding and "one sided trades"?
yep they like to table you in one go, and force your swing back to die to their overwatch
I’m going to try an odd da big hunt list, two kommando units for board control and letting my scouts forward, Zod with 20 gretchin, the 9 inch scout Squig brick, then Moz solo, ghaz, killrig with proper killy beastboss. Then just a bunch of scoring units
This is a pretty elite army and I could see it going wrong but I was just want the chance to put 9 squigs in the deployment zone turn 1. Warhorde would probably be better. probably a threat overlord type of army as it’s hard to hide everything listed
Hmmm one Kommando is probably plenty that can free up quite a bit of points for you!
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 yeah I’m lacking beast snagga units, idk what id use the points on thought about throwing deffkoptas in or more meganobz for ghaz? Last couple times I’ve used only 2 and they’ve died to random mortal wounds for explosions. But the nerf was so harsh
Great video as always. Is it worth playing gladius with codex space marine. I’m typical a .500 win guy but lately have been getting my butt whooped. Thinking of switching to blue Templars
galdius is super solid
good video :-)
🔥🤘🔥
Would you advise threat overload with tau, you uf you use infiltrating screen to block movement, then follow up to take primary and destroy the biggest threats?
tau trade super well. They force double activations for devilfish + breachers, or cheaply trade out pirahnas early on
Do you think its possible to do the Hiding options with units that cant move through walls, such as greater daemons and blood crushers? Some armies, such as daemons, have their hardest hitting units unable to move through walls. Is this viable still for them or too hard?
its much harder
Can scouts and other infiltrators infiltrate as close as in the picture? I thought it needed to be 9 inches away
no 9 inches is correct, but with an advance/movement i could look like that
@@Ramsie_Hartmann ah so thats if you get first turn. nevertheless they still block enemy movement albeit not as much if they get first turn
9 inches, then you have a 6 inch move with advance, so this would be assuming you go first. If you went second you would go backwards to safety
I like what you are saying.... I just dont know what MSU is
minimum sized unit!
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 thanks a ton!
hide and then waaaaagh? kunnin and brutal
this is the way
Which one of these do you think fits guard the best?
Gaurd tends to trade very well, since you have to poke your head out, or commit something serious to kill a tank
@@Happykrumpingwargaming007 my man keeps up with the replies! Thanks so much dude.
I will try to bate them with a Russ or something just to have my rogal d’s swing them the next turn?
The "hiding strategy" is a game design flaw by GW. It is only possible because they messed up the core balancing. Great video anyhow!
Control style strategies aren't a game flaw. Not engaging at all turn one means you might not do anything on your first turn if you go first. Since deployment is before knowing who went first, you are either stay hidden, or you come out an expose yourself. Also, no matter where you hide, some armies can get to you. Aeldari go very fast. Grey Knights going second on you can Teleport to you and shoot and charge. Hiding is risking tempo for safety.
@@thetimebinder The flaw is in the fact that there is so much damage and moblity in BAs (f.e.), that an army like this can afford to do nothing and still almost table the opposing army in one turn, with barely any setup / counter play.
hello. what is MSU?
Minimum Size Unit :)
Minimum sized unit!
Don't pick a army with low chance of a model update and has a not working rule system. Had multiple friends quit this edition, because they played a Deathwing, white scar etc army. If l knew someone playing deathwatch they probably would had quit too.
Deathwing had an entire range refresh 5 months ago? White scars are just a part of the standard space marines army, just with more bikes. Deathwatch, fair, they need some help
Haha, I’m just going to keep walking you down until you’ve got no units. ~82% win rate with 65 2k games played
lol, if it works for you