A Game Developer's Rant on SBMM
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 лип 2024
- Choy's Video | • SBMM: Why the Original...
Choy's Channel | / @theonlychoy
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The Fatal Flaws of Dead by Daylights Matchmaking |
• The Fatal Flaws of Dea...
0:00 - The Failure of Modern Day SBMM
0:32 - Who is this Game Developer?
0:39 - Article | 1
1:13 - Dev Response | 1
2:01 - Introspection
2:41 - Article | 2
3:18 - Introspection
5:02 - Dev Response | 2
6:03 - Introspection
7:36 - Article | 3
7:56 - Introspection
9:01 - Dev Response | 3
9:49 - Introspection
10:26 - Dev Response | 4
11:00 - Introspection
11:23 - Dev Response | 5
11:55 - DbD's Skill Brackets
12:19 - Introspection - Ігри
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I genuinely would not have found this if it weren't for @TheOnlyChoy hes been covering this sentiment for a while and if you wanna see how he covered this piece as well, I've left a link to his video if you want to see it! ua-cam.com/video/maqtiMLdWQM/v-deo.htmlsi=xesSJSvyNdDKx7TJ
This is why BHVR should just have new game mode that gives a new change of pace and something new to adapt with. Instead of doing the same objective each game everytime. I used to be a OG COD player. If I get bored sweating playing with team death match, I switch over to Zombie mode or other game mode with a ease of mind and slow down the intensity pace.
3:10 Because you only showed the heads of the most toxic Bubble inside the DBD Community here! This People (together with the Devs) CREATED this Environment! Otz with his constant crying and how they all complained about the Emblem System! And today he makes Videos where he says whats wrong with the MMR System and his solutions are all the things that went out of the WIndow when they changed the Emblem System!
It did recognize when you kited a Killer all game!
It did recognize when you had only 1 k but 9 Hooks!
It was possible to play anything else than Meta OR just play casual without playing for wins (WHOEVER does stupid things like this!)
Like I already told you several times:
You don`t realize what even is the Problem and deny what is the obvious!
Similar to the Devs!
And only around 15% of the player base even consumes content creators
still BHVR thinks they are the link to the Community!
This leads to misinformations.
Then another thing is somehow BHVR cant just take advise they always have to change something!
Example:
Otz Community Update:
EVERYTHING he said there, every Problem, was worked on!
BUT: They only looked whats the Problem when they watched Otz! They didn`t listen to his solutions but found their own ones!
And THAT is what leads into the catastrophe!
Better would be if Otz just shuts his mouth and makes winstreak videoseries and smurf with racists and scum to make "tHE HardEsT ChAllEnGe IN DbD"
They should just copy and paste this man's logic as a SBMM developer into their system, because that's exactly what their missing in my opinion. We need to have good matches and bad matches in order to have fun. If we had a ranked and unranked category, I think it would already help relieve the stress of the sweaty matches. Not to mention their is no real value from the ranks in the game.
Please see my comment
@@blueboilover22qqp
"BHVR has started doing sponsored tournaments"
Actually they have not. The monthly DBD Community Cups went on for a while but they stopped almost a year ago. They've also basically done zero changes to the custom game settings and there's still DOZENS of spectators bugs that make the experience of watching competitive events pretty bad sometemes. Frankly I think they have NOT catered to the hyper-competitive people at all, they've just come up with a convenient system that splits them up from the general average playerbase. If DBD is guilty of anything, it's the fact that it has created an opaque system that keeps everyone guessing since it's completely hidden. I think that's the source of a lot of the frustration that we constantly see in the community.
What do you think about the old rank system with the rank 1 - 20? I personally think they should bring it back as it catered to both casual and competitive people and was just fun
That one statement doesn't invalidate the rest of his argument. Lots of people share the sentiment that DBD is a competitive sweat fest that is stressful. You don't have to be in a tournament cup for that, but if someone watched a comp tourney and saw the 'skilled' players camping and tunneling they would take that as a learning experience and camp/tunnel in their games to win outside of tournaments.
Those are symptoms. This explains the root cause on why their SBMM is not working, because there is no rhythm or bell curve in the matches. Without that, casuals and competitors will never have fun unless they are playing to win. Without loss you wouldn't feel happy winning. Their SBMM is flawed. They are guilty of that at the very least haha. The fault lies on the deceiver and not the deceived and their system is deceptive. BTW Love your vids, Otz.
i mean its more that they TRIED to cater to a more competetive playerbase, but they failed massively in just about every aspect, so now they have tried and failed massively at listening to ordinary people instead to see if thats going to be a better route, but as you said its still so unknown and opaque to just about everyone including the devs and programmers at bhvr, that its basically impossible to guess whats going to happen in the worst way possible
edit: yeah what jackywhaler said is a pretty big point to add on also "if someone watched a comp tourney and saw the "skilled" players camping and tunneling they would take that as a learning experience and camp/tunnel in their games"
since a lot of what happens in tournaments and cups is a lot of sweating and usually "scummy" tactics that most players despise, it just brings the very few new players into the community on the wrong foot and gets them a lot of hate as soon as they start
Tism or bias? Which is it otz?
What I like most about playing Killer is when I'm not playing sweaty, don't tunnel etc. I get rewarded with t-bagging survs at the end. I don't get it.
Because Survivors don't care about Killers generally and will always find reasons to call them the bad guys. And likewise Killers make excuses as to why Survivors outplayed them. Etc.
@@theWIIISEguy Its a circle of endless suffering
@@theWIIISEguy The amount of times I've been face-camped or hard tunnelled while running a full squad perkless or more commonly perkless solo, or just playing for fun just to get hit with the "Ez", "Uninstall", "KYS" is immeasurable. Everyone in the community is toxic and that can't get fixed while we keep up the "All Survs this" or "All Killers that", I don't understand why people struggle to treat eachother with respect in this community
its a lose-lose situation. You play fair you get called bad "gg ez" tbag you, you get a 4k and theyll nit pick how you played and still call you trash
Some survivors will t bag whether they did anything or not. T bag and go down in twenty seconds. Other times you can just out play a killer, no toxicity involved and get hit on hook and face camped at end game. It's just how some players play. Just an fyi, me and the swf I run with would never tbag a killer who really tried their best not to chase the same person. Seeing almost everyone on death hook before anyone gets sacrificed is an absolute Chad move, and if I make it out on games like that I drop my item as survivor. Not tbag.
I miss rank reset so much. It was always the best time of the month. It's just sad that I don't want to play this game anymore
I wish there was a rank reset every couple months, at least, a month feels a little too short. But it made it so fun!! I agree
It's normal to take a break from things you love. It's not normal for the things you love to put you in a constant state of stress.
Then play for fun not wins for a couple of games, lower your mmr to the point where you just playing chill will get you wins.
@@addali150 ity isnt as simple as that. purposely lobotomizing yourself to have a temporary amount of casual games is ridiculous
@addali150 once you hit that cap (which you will never know), you can't go below it. I have been playing killers I'm not good with and using non meta perks lost 9 of 12 so far and matches are not getting easier at least for me. I don't believe you're able to lower mmr just maintain or raise or it at least increases significantly faster then decrease
@@jordankibbee3441 Not true, you can go below the cap and lower your MMR. It just takes a _lot_ of Ls. I know from experience.
@addali150 that's the stupidest idea I've heard today
Literally the taking a break feels so real, it’s what I’ve been doing because I have indeed had a lot of stress with it when trying to play for fun. Now it’s just sitting there, still installed, waiting to be played, but it’s hard to want to when it feels like i just can’t whilst having fun. Womp Womp :(
It's a catch-22.
You don't play because you'll get wrecked when you play, but you get wrecked because by not playing, your skill is degrading from what the system has you placed at due to prior performance.
i still fuck around when i play and dont usually have terrible games. maybe i got lucky or somethin idk
@@ToadrixAce It's probably /because/ you screw around and don't care about winning as much.
If you play how you think is fun and lose because of it, SBMM will try to give you easier opponents. If you're ruthless, and do whatever you have to to win, it'll give you harder opponents.
I actively keep different killers that I play with different levels of seriousness, and the difference in the level of survivors the game gives me huge.
@@Aquilenne I think mmr doesn't go down when you take a break so you just come back to face sweats when your rusty and its horrible
@@Aquilenne its less about getting wrecked because sbmm places you so far up, its more that one match you face the sweatiest swf in the world, the next you face a 3man swf with a random god player, then you face 4 randoms that barely touched the game, then if ur lucky you might get a player you could consider your skill level, though you probably wont
its so random that its not even fun random, its just random random
I've taken a long hiatus from DBD because of SBMM. The game is just too stressful now at high MMR.
Yeah same, I stopped playing a couple weeks ago because of it, I want to play but I dont want to be constantly getting super sweaty bully squads or super sweats who are toxic over everything.
I dont get it, then just play chill and lose then youll be at a lower more enjoyable level for you
@@addali150 you seem to misunderstand that there is no playing chill as killer. That's not how that works
@@addali150 doesn't really happen, once you're at high mmr it is extremely hard to drop down. The game constantly tries to stop you from ranking down, this was also mentioned / explained in the video. I dont want to accuse you of not having watched it, in case you misses it maybe give it a rewatch.
tldr as long as you play actively you hit high mmr and cant get out of it, even when intentionally losing
@@oneautumnleaf2622I agree it's difficult to play more relaxed/not Winn focussed, but it is possible. I'm at p high mmr for some killers and once in a while I just focus on downing one survivor who is running me for 3 gens, or only m2, or 8 hooking. The point isn't to "not sweat" but to shift my goal from "winning" so that I feel success and accomplishment while reaching the goal I set over the designed Win Condition.
SBMM is one of if not the worst decision made by BHVR in my opinion, ever since SBMM the fun in this game has slowly plummeted for me. It's also depressing to see a lot of dbd creators leave this game.
I agree completely, but I would say it was a sudden drop off in “fun”. It was the biggest matchmaking switch I’ve felt in any game in the past. I’ve been with DBD since Freddy originally came out, but haven’t played any in the past few months for this exact reason.
@@seanmartin7837 When they turned the SBMM switch on, the fun turned off.
And trying to balance the game too😂
I enjoyed Destiny 2 pvp before sbmm, now like any game with it, it's quick play is sweatier that comp modes😢
fax fax fax I couldn't agree more
I play on the AUS servers...the problem is the SBMM doesn't work in DBD with low populations, I have less than 500 hours total, 30% of which are on killer.. yet when I queue killer i get continuously matched against players who have thousands of hours.. (highest was a 5k hour player) Even if I sweat, I still get stomped (4 out, 3 out) in 60-70% of my killer games.. outside of it being a skill issue, it doesn't feel fun knowing that i'm most likely gonna get stomped and gonna play against players who just have insanely more experience than me
This makes it sound like they are matching by percentage rank instead of by absolute skill level, and that is an even worse way to do SBMM.
Yikes.
bro it doesnt work on any server, i play on eu in what i would assume to be the frankfurt server and i have just under 600 hours with about 90% on killer, but still, i still get matched in both surv and killer with players who have 3k+ hours, on killer i can somewhat understand because im not even all that bad at killer, but for someone with around 80+ hours of survivor to face killer one tricks that have hundreds or thousands of hours is insane and unreasonable
Doesn't sound like a "skill" based matchmaking system then. Sounds like a lie to me haha. Otzdarva keeps excusing them and I understand why but he's making it sound like it's the community's fault even though the community is the one being lied to. The system is just flawed.
this hours thing isn't just something that happens in aus. hours don't = skill in the slightest, they just = general experience. as a 5k hour player myself, i go against 200 hour players or 13000 hour players in NAE, sometimes literally in the same match at the same time
Same lol
Here is my Philosophy:
No matter your skill level, there are people better than you and there are people worse than you, you can try as hard as you want or slack as much as you want, there will still be better people than you and also those who are worse.
Settle on a skill level where you can have fun and enjoy the journey of improving rather than rushing to the maximum YOU can archive.
this means nothing with regards to the video. If you mean just be happy with where the SBMM system places you then congrats you're part of the problem. That still creates ultra sweaty matches consistently. If you mean for people to stop sweating so hard then too bad, some people like to play sweaty for fun. Otherwise, I have no clue what you're saying.
@@malvarado9912 Wrong assumption actualy.
But my opinion about SBMM is this:
Let it be more random, the stricter SBMM is the more similar and sweaty games become, more randomness will give more interesting situations and lead to more fun.
Behaviour devs only imagine things on their mind about how ppl feel but never listen how they feel
If you don’t like SBMM it’s simply because you’re mad upon realizing you’re not that good.
Behavior made the game more fair and the people who hate SBMM are just mad they can’t win against newbies all day long.
They learned they’re average players and now they lose a lot more with the game being more fair.
@@blake7587 "If you don’t like SBMM it’s simply because you’re mad upon realizing you’re not that good.", so that statement is already wrong. We just want the game fun and not sweaty but you didnt understand the whole video and OPs comment. And dont worry, I'm good at this game but only as killer (2100+ MMR).
French “people”
@@Shishio Thank you for proving my point 😂
“We’re mad it’s sweaty” is just a way of saying “Boo hoo I can’t crush newbies all day”.
It’s not “sweaty” at all.
You people are simply learning that you’ve previously been matching against newbies most of the time and now playing against mid rank and high rank players suddenly the game seems “sweaty”. Which it’s not.
What’s crazy is they haven’t even removed SWF yet so you still have a huge advantage yet somehow it’s not a huge enough advantage 🙄
@@blake7587 i dont care if i playing against the world champions in dbd, i just want the MMR to be visible.
Been playing Halo for 20 years. It’s always had the best matchmaking hands down. They even introduced a mode above ranked called MLG in Reach and it was insanely difficult. But the casual game modes were always chill and fun.
Exactly what games are missing now haha, just a good old fashioned matchmaking system that works.
I thought my friend was joking when she said there was no casual game mode in DBD. It's like saying Mario Party has MMR. It's wild.
When more people need to take breaks and more people play less of your game. You as a developer are working against your own goal. You want as many players playing your game as possible. Baffles me how game developers purposely want this and watch their ship sink. The same thing happened to Call of Duty. And same with Hunt Showdown.
Not to mention Overwatch
Especially when DBD is trying to be a bit like a live service game.
@@CoOlKyUbI96 It is a live service. Read their EULA. They've indemnified themselves of any liability and even states that if you lose your account or it gets corrupted they have no obligation to remedy you--so giving the owners of corrupted accounts however many BPs was just them doing a 'gentleman's favour'.
I'll never forget the hockey comparison KEKW
BHVR should just disable SBMM for a week to see what happens
I feel like they have done that before ngl lol
Stomps for days. That's what. If you really are having fun bouncing from getting stomped to stomping players that aren't even trying, more power to y'all.
I'd like that just to show everyone how delusional they are. If they disabled it for a week, everyone will be begging for it to be back
@@DarkyLonewolf simp harder why dont you @v1p3r62 same goes for you
@@v1p3r62 If they removed it then I'd probably play the game again, if others aren't playing serious then I won't either, some good ol silliness
this is why i personally think we need a casual game mode,people always have the fear of long game ques or splitting the community,but in the state the game is in we need some kind of difference for people who want one or the other and so people can have the choice of if they want to "sweat" or play casual as the halo dev sujested
The problem seems to be folks love winning, and hate losing, even when they claim to be casually playing.
People dont want to be honest. They dont want to seem like theyre trying to win, but will have a tantrum when they lose.
Killers rage because Survivors love to taunt, but give Killers no context as to why, which causes Killers to come up with their own reasoning for why they acted the way they did during the trial.
Survivors call Killers toxic because they're most likely playing to win most of the time, and the Survivors can't just BS throughout the trial.
I notice that Survivors will call anything a Killer does to complete their objective toxic, even if that wasnt what going on.
Its crazy how its becoming where casuals just want to be handed wins when playing casually means you're not gonna be on the level of those who put the grind in, and they need to accept that. No amount of nerfs and buffs are gonna help you if you dont put in the time. If you dont want to, then you have to accept the results of that. When i play casual, I'm not expecting to win at all, I'm chillin. I'm not just saying that so people that go hard will go get nerfed to hell. Things that affect win rates dont cross my mind when it comes to me playing a game casually, only Qol changes. A lot of the DBD community, especially Survivors, are playing casually, but will cry when they dont escape every trial. Then will blame tunneling, camping, 3 gens and strats are too OP when they cant overcome. Put the grind in for the perks, put the grind in for the knowledge and experience, and you will be fine. The thing about that is, you can't claim to be casual playing to get better. Casual players dont care about improving their game, just having fun, relaxing, killing time.
I really believe that most of the DBD player base, if full of individuals who are lying about playing the game casually. Too many of yall will cry about stuff being OP. Why do you care if you're just playing for fun? Its because you're just as sweaty, but you dont want to put the work in. 😂😂😂
Fiero. This was a term i learned during my studies in games design! It means "Tension and Release". Its the build up of stress and anger to an extent over the current thing you are facing to beat! But you need that moment of release, you need the moment where you finally beat the boss, or win the match or feel like you have accomplished something! As if not this Tension just keeps building and keeps building until it breaks the player! You NEED this release else you are just going to drive players away. This is why you need a variety in your games, because if not you are going to end up with scenarios where you are happy to be out of the game rather than HAPPY that you have won the match and feel accomplished.
SBMM ruins many games, not just DbD. A system made to make balanced matches then comrpomising entirely on that standard for queue times is a failed system.
While I agree with you, it's also funny to hear so many make this complaint. The devs have said to go play something else they do not care if you have fun. The market is for the newer players. People like us have been playing so long that they have made their money with us and know that the majority of people who have significant time invested won't leave. Point they believe they own you and don't care about you, just your money. Unless they stop making a healthy profit this won't change
reminds me of overwatch tbh
This, but also I recall that they added sbmm BECAUSE people were complaining that everyone in their matches were of mismatched skill levels. So if they removed it people would just go back to complaining that they aren't getting matched properly again. You can't make everyone happy. Matches are mostly pretty sweaty.. but I'd honestly rather it be this way than being paired with new players constantly. This game, in it's nature, is meant to be challenging - otherwise why even play it if you just want things to be handed to you.. If you want a cozy game, you came to the wrong place. It's weird to play a competitive game and expect it to handhold you and make you feel good.
@@Letycsur part of the problem here then
@@Letycs how is dbd a competitive game, even the devs have said it is a 4fun game. Hence they don’t host competitive games aka tournaments
@Letycs fair point, but that was what ranks were for if you go against a red rank 1, you know they play some. While thy may not be the 80 hour a week person there not new either. We're as now 1600 seems easy to get to from what we know and like old system it's different levels. I Sony like sbmm but the developer team isn't concerned with the older players they are staying, and they got there money it's all about new players' money, which is understanding. Like they have said, don't like it to play something else. Basically, they don't care. I feel that attitude being rewarded is the issue, though I am contributing because I still play 4 or 5 hours a week
I wish there was elo decay personally. I took a year break from artist to chucky and still had 6k hour lobbies upon returning.
At this point I don't even know how to fix this game.
I'd assume maybe with community severs like in counter strike, left 4 dead 2 or team Fortress 2. Games that are still being played today despite their age not because of frequent DEV updates but because it's genuinely fun.
These community servers usually have different rules/gamemodes from server to server, in DbD that could look like less/more hookstages/generators/exit gates / hatches / killers / survivors. Or maybe no gens and something completely different is the objective!
I remember having a lot more fun in those older games back in the day like Halo 2, I didn't even think about the why thanks for making this video answering what I didn't know I wanted to know!
Love being called a "sensitive snowflake" simply because I stopped playing the game after how sweaty and unfun it gets
One memory I love is Black Ops 2. I was top of the leaderboard most games because there was little SBMM, but the boredom of winning would set in and instead incentivize me to have fun and try creative builds. Knife Only, Pistol only, Riot Shield, Tomahawk games, etc. I still occasionally got top of the leaderboard with this build, but it made me a better player while having fun and the opposing team had a better shot as I was just playing for fun. Only when I encountered players of my own skill would I make that switch to play safer/ sweatier and it was seen as a fun challenge. I know this is DBD, but also in sports, practices are not meant to be stressful. You’re supposed to try new things, take risks, be creative which translate into skill in your competitive matches. You can’t do that if every match is competitive and paradoxically can’t get better as a player if you’re forced to make the safest plays in order to not get destroyed.
Getting stomped is actually less stressful than every match being razor-thin.
The thing is that you can control your MMR. I have my variability because I play different killers with different levels of seriousness. The thing to keep in mind is that the matchmaking system is going to try to match your energy.
On my super chill wraith who I run distressing + beast of prey + thrill of the hunt + undying, troll around sometimes, and don't kill before 8 hooks and let people go if they get enough progress by ninth hook that I just go "Yeah, close enough" I get those super relaxing games against baby/intermediate survivors.
On my knight where I want a more fair game where I actually try to win with the exceptions of giving last survivor hatch, sparing survivors if they give an item, and tunnelling whenever survivors don't actively create that situation for themselves (e.g. body blocking with BT off the hook) I get exactly that, survivors that I have clean fair games and win a fair amount of the time against, often ending up with 1-3k each match.
I'm sure that if I actually ever played in a ruthless "Do everything I can to win" I'd also be getting extremely stressful games on that killer too. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you decide that you have to win all the time and do everything you can to get those wins, MMR will continue to put you up against people who will continue to force you to do it. If you decide to stop caring about winning, and just play in a way that you find fun, MMR will put you against people whom that casual playstyle is viable against.
Granted sometimes MMR doesn't work due to the level of it expanding when it can't find people in range for a while and I will occasionally get really good survivors even on Wraith, but working most of the time is still better than working none of the time which would be the situation if you removed it entirely.
The people who feel like SBMM 'forces' them to do everything the can to win would still play the same way without it, because the choice not to already exists, and is actually supported by SBMM giving you easier opponents when playing that way makes you lose.
The only commenter here with a brain.
Its not that people feel the SBMM forces, them it literally Locks them into a bracket after reaching 1600 mmr where even if you play to derank, you're still in that same bracket facing the same bracket of players even after 'loss' streaks reaching the double digits.
@@DarkyLonewolfguess we are still searching
So you can only control your rank by throwing. The point is that players can get stuck in matches that feel exactly the same endlessly, whether you play casual or not. Not everyone is 'playing to win' and they still escape/get 4ks. I have an alt that within three days I was in the exact same mmr as my main account, facing the exact same scenarios/players/perks/killers. I wasn't sweating to get there, I was merely attempting to learn new stuff along the way that I felt I couldn't do on my main because the game was over in less than 6 minutes because someone was dead on hook or all the gens were done. SBMM does force players into these games, unless you actively try to die/let everyone out of the gates, essentially throwing. Which in itself, you're micromanaging a scenario, which isn't how most casual gamers play, because why would they? Most other SBMM games do not "lock" you into your rank. If you lose games, you lose rank, its that simple. I stopped 'doing everything to win' a long time ago, use random perks for fun, and my games are still nightmarish sweat fests, which is why I play this game maybe once a week per month, and then find better things to do.
amazing video as always, really hope some of the devs see this one
My favorite part of this video is knowing that Call of Duty Mobile’s matchmaking is putting you with stronger players who bought items so that you’re encouraged to buy it. Every game is hard or bots, and the way to get easy lobbies is buy $100 skins. Only saving grace for dbd is skins not applying buffs
DBD introducing SBMM was when I stopped maining the game. End of story.
The problem here, I think, is that as a company, Behavior thinks it's shit doesn't stink. Every time I've seen or heard a dev open their mouth there's this "know-it-all" smugness that absolutely tanks my faith in their ability to actually fix anything, because they aren't even able to see what's broken or why.
As a casual player, playing DBD for me on either side is a pain train. It's not fun to know exactly what is going to happen and you can't do anything.
This video finally shed light on all the things I've been experiencing in dbd. I've played since the first year and it's been shifted into an overly competitive game and exactly for the reasons in this video.
These types of videos are awesome keep it up man
I wish everyone would stfu about getting 5 views in 20 seconds
It's 12 year olds man, kids are gonna be kids.
Cry about it some more.
See if that stops it
@@neonclouds9295 that's qwild man
@@Mentxlist His other option is to wish in one hand and shit in the other and tells me which one fills up first
What I don’t understand is why I keep getting lumped in with 0s and 1s when playing survivor, but when I’m killer I’m frequently seeing level 100 players when my Sadako is still a 1. I’ve only got 100 hrs in this game, why am I getting matched like this?
Like 5 gen chase and 4k 5 gen videos weren't the case before SMBB.
Realest vid we've seen from the NUT in a while ❤❤❤😂
I do fully agree with this... I used to play dbd for hours during the early days mostly because I'd have better games overall than what we have now. I get on and can only handle 2 to 8 matches before Its become too much for me. I don't even make it into the silver grades anymore because I'm just not playing as much. I genuinely want them to remove SBMM...
Before the SBMM I had a 4 man swift its was fun we played hours and hours every day. Now they all left and I'll be the next one to follow them. After 2 matches. Killer or survivor I keep asking myself why I still play this game...
the game was peak in 2020 then they had to ruin it just like cod
this is an off topic comment but have you ever tried the steathly huntress? I know you like more of cross maps shots but stealthy huntress is really fun, you run iri head and wooden fox and you could get good downs and maybe good reactions out of streamers
I am a bit stressed out with DBD at present, I actually just cannot play killer at all as it makes me far too anxious but survivor has been quite rough lately too. Speaking of taking breaks... that is exactly what I am doing for a while I think. I love the game but I am not having fun at the moment, so that tells me I need to take some time away
I am actually tankfull for sbms, I played for 940h and thanks to new matchamaking system I totally stopped after giving it a chance. There is no more fun dbd so even if I wanted to go back there is no fun game there. Only when they had tests and bringed back old system for just one day I played for 10h straigh, but now I am free to enjoy other games and play overall less
I'm taking a break too.
I main survivor and almost every match i just get stomped. Then suddenly i get a match where the killer barely gets any hooks and i don't feel good either, and then there are the rare cases of a tight and fun match where i survive, or one where i dir but it was super fun anyways.
It gets frustrating very fast to be constantly stomped or die in most of your matches, so i'm just taking a break, but also because i had to grind a lot to get the last level of the deep rift, cause i wanted all i paid for, and that's also a problem, the grind.
And to the people who just say "just get better"... Dude, i play this game almost every day since october of 2021, and i try my best in the matches i play, i don't quit my games, it's very rare for me to quit, and even when my team gives up i stay and do my best to get the most out of the match. I'm not a comp player and i don't wanna be, but i do try my best every match, so i don't think that should be the problem.
But that reminds me: honestly, you know what has actually been the most frustrating thing in this game?? THE TEAMMATES. It's a miracle to get a team that does not have at least ONE person giving up or throwing the game by killing themselves on hook, giving themselves up to the killer and not cooperating. On the week i was grinding for the last level of the deep rift i got one Mikaela who tried to give up mid match, but we didn't let her and eventually she got back into the game, and then one Dwight who SUDDENLY threw the entire match just cause he was put on basement but it was his first hook, and we could absolutely win that match or at least get one to survive. I got the dwight out of the basement and the killer didn't even come for me, i took the killer away so Dwight and Mikaela could do some progress but then Dwight came just to throw the pallet i was down at and get downed. After i was hooked, the hillbilly left dwight on the ground to go after Mikaela, i managed to freaking do a 4% and tried to get Dwight up, but you know what he did?? Aside from not recovering the whole time, when i tried to get him up he STOPPED ME from healing him and kept moving. I tried to run and survive by myself but i eventually died. All this against the singularity.
That's what's so frustrating lately in this game! There was like one gen left and my team did this. I'm tired of teams that throw and troll, why open the game to do that? Also i can't quit without getting a penalty, so maybe we should get rid of quit penalties? Idk, that's just frustrating.
some people say that the best solution is to give dbd players ranked mode but it wouldnt change much imo. a lot of players which are "comp minded" and play sweaty wouldnt have fun in real comp match with restrictions for perks, maps, addons, items etc. those players would have still play unranked modes but with the same sweaty playstyle. (sorry for mistakes)
I feel like also seperating would only lead to longer queue times and thats it.
They should just bring back the old rank system and everyone would be happy
@@aroace7913Not necessarily, there are games starting and stopping constantly. People worried about queue times act like players are fighting over one spot in one lobby. Other games of similar player activity have multiple game modes and they do fine. Overwatch 2, from what I've heard, has similar active player numbers to dead by daylight and that game has ranked, casual and arcade game modes with role queue and they don't have queue time issues. Plus the removal of SBMM for a casual game mode would reduce restrictions on who you could be matched with i.e more players and potentially faster matchmaking for that game mode
@@SkaterBlades
Difference is though you need always 1 killer and 4 survivers so you have a heavy unbalance and seperating could make it worse.
I disagree. For example, let’s say there are 10,000 sweaty players. If you have ranked, a significant portion of those will move to ranked. The odds of encountering them will decrease in casuals.
Coconut's argument here is weak and circular. If he plays sweaty and wins, he will obviously get matched up with higher skilled players and he will have to keep playing sweaty to win. If you don't play sweaty and you lose your mmr, it will go down, and you won't be with sweat lords. There is no evidence that more people are playing sweaty. At mid mmr, it is absolutely fine. It literally sounds like Coco just wants to be able to 4k noobs with orbitals. For the majority of players, mmr is fine. The game developer is talking about how to improve mmr not remove it. It is only the 1200 hour sweats who are complaining, and their arguements make no sense.
This is exactly what comes to mind whenever this topic is brought back up with any game that has SBMM and complains about having to sweat every match. If we're saying that it's made for the low-rank/unskilled players to play and keep playing, it's obviously working to the point that it's keeping similarly skilled players together for more even match-ups. So, maybe just don't sweat in your matches? Even if SBMM was removed from casual or all matchmaking all together, how long would it take before people start complaining about the imbalance of the matchmaking that would create, throwing people who are way too good/bad in their games ruining the match.
Bingo and that’s why when people bring up SBMM I roll my eyes if you sweat expect to meet sweat you can’t have your cake and eat it to . They just want to be able to stomp on noobs lol
Except that isn't how it works? It doesn't matter how much you lose, once your mmr hits 1600 you are locked past that point. Your mmr CANNOT lower and you're trapped in the sweatfest.
dude talked about how my little oni is more fun cause gens doesn't instant pop or oni doesn't slack for 4k
well guess what, that's exactly how my games went before I quit, playing oni is fine because the instant pop gens is actually fun, but being left on the ground for 4 minutes is bloody boring
I wouldn’t be playing the game without sbmm. The thing people don’t realize is that the easy game you want is actually causing a lot of stress for the other side that isn’t good enough to have a chance in the match.
Just add a ranked and causal mode.
I still stand by the best time in the game was with the grade system. With a reset every month. It really added variety and let me goof around when it was obvious the killer was on the weaker side. Let me also learn killers without feeling pressed
This was super interesting to watch and read, applying to DBD, I stopped playing back in 2019 around december or January 2020, do not remember right now, but the thing for me was that the problems flourished way too fast, and I kept playing, until I reached around 1.5k hours, and completely dropped the game, I entered in a loop of easiest games of my life, and then the hardest, and kept looping the same thing over and over, was just weird and boring, on top of that all the meta and stuff threw me off the game, not even the toxicity pushed me off, the problem for me was the game itself, nowadays I just watch content from time to time when I stumble upon it.
Personally, DbD is like a MOBA in the aspect of balancing the game, it is straight up impossible, the variety of add-ons and every single mechanic that do this and that, it is just impossible to balance, but BHVR have to focus on what they want for the game, because of what I have seeing, they do not have a north for their own game, they want to have collab characters and shove into it, to drag attention, but other than that, they are confused about the game itself, it does not have a personality besides being unique in the genre, but in the playstyle is competitive at the same time they do not want to be, but also, they want people to have fun, while deleting things that made the game fun, but also putting "meme" stuff, that no one uses because come back to the competitive side and if you try you are just handcapping yourself to the point of unplayability, it is just a mess.
I feel the sandbagging tournament was a interesting experiment that could be apart of this video somewhere.
I have to hard disagree with Coconut here. DBD has a huge amount of matchmaking vqriability. In fact, variability is why I enjoy DBD matchmaking. My killer games range from solo players with a few hundred hours to P400 sweat SWFS who finish all gens in 4 minutes through pain res. That's a lot of variability.
My appreciation for the old school Halo developers continues to grow as I learn how each of those developers REALLY understood game design well above and beyond their time. Its actually unbelievable how great they all were and how that quality was consistent across the entire team working on those games from music, to story writing, game design, multiplayer, graphics, ect!
Theres a lot that can be said about them but i think more than anything theres a lot that can be learned from them.
Honestly sbmm feels okay to me but the problem is there is no place for casual players to go, players who want to chill and experiment see where I’m going with this? just make a casual mode you can use this mode to practice against real people with no fear of demoting and just have fun and boom less stress and sweat and people who are going for a more competitive experience can go to sbmm. I feel most bad for survivors. I always play solo queue and no exaggeration it’s the worst experience I’ve ever had on a video game ever and that’s saying something because overwatch 2 exists.
Amazing video coconut
Am I tripping? Haven't you done a video on this Twitterthread before? Or was that someone else.
Dbd sbmm be like "heres a killer that hasn't left his chair in so long it melded to his body, and heres little timmy and his 2 cousins good luck have fun."
What? I'm so confused, this is what sbmm has mostly removed. And why coconut is complaining in the video.
@@RezEverdaybecause it doesn't work.
My theory is that SBMM is an actual intoxicated monkey sitting in BHVR office throwing darts.
@@kimikothetanuki314 Yes it does, High skill people are being matched with those their level. People are complaining that they are matched with the same skill level opponents?
@@addali150 it may work with high level high hour players. But for players like me that play this game casually or plays it every month or so, the SBMM does not work.
I would love having a 5v5 ranked mode added to the game in addition to the main gamemode. I mean they have the foundation to add more gamemodes as theyve shown with the two modifiers they released.
I feel like it’s also other factors that makes the game feel sweaty all the time, various guides both for survivor and killer on how to do xyz, discord for swfs/having ttv in their username, and other outside factors.
I quit the very patch SBMM was implemented and never went back. It was painfully obvious this is where things would go, and as time goes on I feel more and more validated.
me when my opponent in a videogame actually tries to win:😫
Me when I can't just stomp on baby players in the game I have hundreds of hours in: 😫
"SBMM doesnt work because it incentivizes people to play the game effectively to win"
One thing I never understood was why not separate ranked queue and make a normal queue? The only reason why I think they don't do this it because then the game dies(not enough ranked players). But I could be wrong. I mean every other game has it a normal queue and a ranked queue.
"if they are skilled plays, are they really skilled plays?"
- the legend, Patrick of BHVR
My biggest problem with SBMM personally, as well as replacing the rank system with the grade system, is that you can hardly ever see your improvement in gameplay over time. I stopped playing entirely after popping 1000 hours partially because games still felt largely the same now as they did at 300 hours. When the rank system was in play I had a goal to reach red ranks (which I never got to achieve) as a representation of how much better I had gotten - instead I reached iri grade by just playing several hours a day. There's no sense of satisfaction outplaying a killer or survivor who would have stomped you earlier, because every enemy is scaled with your own level.
That just seems to be an issue of mechanical expression within the game, rather one of SBMM.
In other competitive games (say fighting games) even if you're not generally outplaying enemies or winning more frequently.
You can definitely tell you are improving because the depth of the interactions go deeper and you feel that difference in gameplay.
The depth of the mechanics allows the game to feel notably different and create a sense of progression as that feel changes.
If they revert the sbmm change I might consider playing dbd again
shoutout to all involved and thank you coconut i believe you are healthier for the dbd community then the devs
I've been taking a break after a few months the SBMM changed. As someone who plays low-tier killers but is still in high MMR, it is nothing but pain.
I miss the fun monto builds from a few years ago. That was so much fun.
I agree with this dev.
I've been wanting ranked and casual for a while. I made a second account to play with my friend who is brand new to the game. Playing on that account has become my casual mode, and it is so much fun to be able to see that my hours have payed off, and also meme around and give out kills when I get too far ahead. Then being able to switch back to my main and play sweaty games to try and get better is the best feeling ever.
I feel like with a proper matchmaking system making a new account would be unnecessary. Unless of course you are ranked at the highest level, then smurfs are still going to smurf haha. But I feel like intermediate players such as I should not have to make a new account just to get good matchmaking. It's ridiculous actually lol
@@mjodreaper8481 I agree, I would love to see separate ranked and casual matchmaking. No reason to pay for a second copy and start progression all over.... Unless that was their plan all along 🙀
I remember I used to play this game every single day and I loved it. As soon as SBMM was added, I started taking more and more breaks to the point I barely play anymore. Before they added it, I loved going against tough teams because it wasn't every single match but now, I play 2-4 games then turn it off completely. I just want to have fun. Not sweat like crazy.
altough monsters and mortals is not competitor to dead by daylight as people think, M&M lack of such advanced SBMM make it not only oddly fun, but chaotic because the powers of every character no matter what is the mode or the map (lets just forget about nikson on release, this era has passed to a chilled one)
what i am trying to say is, altough there is leveling system, it is nothing more to say you play this game much, even if you play a match that you or your team are being stomped, you will not only learn new mechanics, but you gonna open to try others way to play.
in shorts words: in comparison to heavy SBMM on a game, you will just play the best way you can, instead of trying to find newer ways to play, hence why people nowadays play mostly for winstreak, they know the opponents will be as strong as them, so they know as well trying something new is worthless, they won't have the chance to do it.
i remember when i first matched against two fiends as monsters, altough i was new and was losing hard, i thought it was quite chaotic on how the map were moving differenlty, being teleported and throwed randomly by the fiends while trying to lure them into traps, then as i knew they were speed characters, i moved to different strategies such slowing them down and attacking (i was prisoner borisov).
i think what i am trying to say is: i don't want DBD to become a new Monsters and Mortals, but it should follow the philosophy of party game rather than competitive game.
even when i finish a match very casually, i still feel quite bad when survivors go to rage in the chat, because its quite clear these fellas were sweating their best for the sake of the MMR.
When people talk about SBMM in DBD it confuses me. I started between Saw and Stranger Things. When SBMM was released I did notice it, however shortly after it was introduced they toned it down. Up till now I don’t notice SBMM a bit. I still get terrible teammates, sometimes good or great. This also goes for killer as well. Everyone talks about how unfun the game is with SBMM but I think the game overtime has changed becoming more balanced which probably contributes to it being less fun (along with other reasons). People say their stressing now more then ever on DBD, why? You’re not really winning or losing anything in game, your win is just a win and your loss is just a loss. I am open for a discussion
it's because people don't get on the game with the goal of losing every match, and to win you have to sweat really hard, every single game.
@@TheRealNoob_YT You know, you can always play a few matches in a more relaxed manner. Try some for fun builds (Killer examples being yeet Wesker, pallet vacuum Wraith, full speed crackhead Legion, etc.), don't worry too much about getting kills, and soon you'll have your inexperienced stompable opponents right back.
@@TheRealNoob_YT that’s a good point. But wasn’t it like this before? The game was in a much more unbalanced state than now. Why are people blaming SBMM? It has nothing to do with SBMM, it’s just the game has changed along with the players. And this might be a reach but maybe the game has been around for a bit so it gets less casual than when it first launched. SBMM is so light that I can’t understand why people are blaming it. The only time SBMM is in effect is when you first start. After a good amount of escapes or kills your matched with the rest of the population. So again, why are we blaming SBMM?
Its the boring way of thinking of "Win = Fun". I have fun in DBD every time I play as otherwise I would not play it. Yes some matches I might get annoyed but usually its not because the game being too "hard" its the stupid things I do, lag causing me miss hits or survivor gain distance, auto aim causing me to miss because it thinks the survivor is right next to me and short swings when I am trying to lunge hit (I hate autoaim its the most idiotic thing they ever added to the game as it mostly does not help me) or hitting someone whose is right in front of you but the game targets the person who is running next to me. I don't get annoyed because I get outplayed as killer or survivor as that happens and in the end its a game meant to entertain not be taken seriously like my life depend on it. If I would take this game seriously I would have stopped playing a long time ago as there is nothing fun in that for me as this is casual game where killers chase survivors.
I also agree that I have had not seen much difference of the matches before the change and after. Some you run over the survivors in 10 minutes and in others can't hook more than few. Its totally random if I get people with 5000 hours or 50 hours in the game.
@@DarkyLonewolf your solution is to lower your mmr till you get less experienced players so you can sweat on them instead... In my opinion that's just a scummy thing to do, because the other side - just like you, want a break from having blights with 4 gen regression perks every single game.
Great Video
I really dislike SBMM, because I feel it hinders learning opportunities for players to grow. Always getting matched against people your skill level means you will always play with people who know roughly the same about the game as you do. You cannot learn much from people of the same level, but what if you go against someone much better? Sure, getting destroyed by a stronger player can feel frustrating as you will almost certainty lose, but it is also a great learning opportunity. You can see and experience first hand how a better player plays the game and learn from it. You can learn a little about good play by watching really good streamers/content creators, but a majority of people don't learn as much from merely watching as they do from hands on experience. Schools have been using hands on activities to help improve the learning of students for ages. To provide an example I will share a story from back when I played Overwatch regularly. I started Overwatch back in season 2 of Overwatch 1 and it was my first ever time playing a FPS game. I had no mechanical skill, decision making, and speed were garbage, and naturally my first season I was bronze. I would quickly climb up to diamond 3400 MMR by season 7 solo queuing, and I attribute a big part of my growth to a friend I used to play a lot of custom 1v1s against. My friend was high diamond/low masters and all of my 1v1s against him went pretty much as expected, he destroyed me, but my training sessions with him were extremely educational. I learned about the game from him, how to practice my aim, how to position better, don't be afraid to take fights, when to engage and when not too, to remember the objective and more. I feel the same is true for dead by daylight as well. As someone who was playing DBD pre-SBMM, the most educational games for me were the ones I lost against a really strong killer or a really strong SWF. Sure they were frustrating and I got bullied a bit I learned a lot from them. All the many different survivors techs I fell victim too early on I never forgot and I don't fall for them now if used on me. All the mistakes that got me downed and killed when vsing a strong killer I remembered and it has helped me become better at taking chase against good killers. I first started DBD in 2019 the year Ghost face, Stranger Things, and Oni chapters all released. I got destroyed a lot by good Demogorgon's back then because I would path straight for shack window or commit other similar mistakes. In the modern day however I recently went up against a really solid streamer who specializes in Demogorgon and I did really well between faking windows and crouch techs (I still lost but I did well). I honestly wish SBMM would allow some variability, maybe not enough for a new player to get destroyed by the best of the best, but a little variability so they can have more learning opportunities. I agree with CocoRTS that having a little more variability would make games feel less bland and stagnant. Some would be learning opportunities where you get destroyed and some you destroy giving some sense of validation.
As much as I love this game, I'm glad my internet is out because this game stresses me the Hell out most of the time. A forced break where I can just focus on myself and be productive.
For the first week of SBMM, it wasn't too bad, but I was aware it would eventually lead to the stress inducing nightmare it is today. The emblem system was difficult for me back then, but I think it was much better than what we currently have.
Its honestly impossible to not play sweaty anymore. Every time I boot up the game I try and put on the meme fun stuff like pebble and hope (not the perk) but it always goes south immediately. I got 5 max sweat, 4 regression, skull merchants in a row yesterday with humping downed survivors until bleedout, multiple hits on hook, nopers, proxy camping, tunneling, 4 slugging, etc. When you feel completely powerless you are forced into sweat builds just to stay alive for a bit and its just not fun. T-bagging doesn't even come close to the toxicity of what killers can do. I was trying to help my buddy get into the game but he's a lvl 11 baby Dwight right now and died instantly. Its probably better off if we don't play together due to sbmm because that experience really turned him off the game and I don't blame him. I told him to play killer and he's having a much better time.
This is a really gooooood video. SBMM is without any doubt one of the biggest problems in DBD. It's the opposite of fun - so what's the point in continuing to play this game then?
Another take with the heart beat metaphor would be designing for the hero's journey curve. Great games take it into consideration in a lot of different aspects and it has catharsis baked in. No one goes into a game thinking their the extra to someone else's story, their the hero of their own story and SBMM trying to equalize everyone turns what should be a fun experience into a straight line of stress.
It’s more the hidden aspect of the game where you have zero clue what’s even happening, you have no idea if that nurse you played was actually “at your skill level” or wayyy higher.
Combined with this, you have no choice in if you want a competitive game or a casual one. I love running fun meme’y builds but I can’t do that anymore, cause if I don’t have at least one anti tunnel and exhaustion perk if not two, then my game lasts for less than 5 minutes where I most likely just spent 2+ doing nothing either on a gen or on hook… I don’t want to have to play the game 6 hours a day or more to be able to just enjoy myself, I took a break from the game from doing that and coming back has been so unfun, I wish I could just have a game where I knew what was happening and I could just relax for a bit.
MM is stupid, full stop.
Keep the lobbies together like back in the good days. MW2 never had this problem because the lobbies weren't broken up after every match. If you sucked, you could always leave and find another lobby.
As survivor I get tunneled at 5 gens and as killer, games always ends in 5 mins or less cause the gens are too fast.
He's onto something with the easy, evenly matched and hard matches. Fun story, when pepsi was trying to compete with coke they brought in a guy to make one best pepsi that would appeal to everyone, eventually after some experimentation he determined a range of pepsis would be better than one ultimate pepsi.
Same theory applies here, you need a range of matches, not everyone likes even matches all the time. You drink diet pepsi 100 times, you'll get bored and want something else. You need variety and a SBMM system promoting sweat is the fastest way to kill variety in a game like this.
I also need to question why this game has SBMM in the first place. Going to the debate of casual vs competitive, the devs over time have/are making it less competitive, they've removed the ranking system and they're making it so you can't go down in the grading system, you can't see the rank or grade of other players. At the same time they're making it competitive in the back end by implementing SBMM which gives you a rank you don't know based on criteria you don't know to arbitrarily assign you to certain players. There are 2 design philosophies working in direct opposition here, they either need to be separated ideally, or have one of them removed. I also want to add on that SBMM is messed up in this game because there is no objective way to universally measure skill. A survivor could single handedly carry a match then get left behind by their teammates, does them dying mean they're a worse player?
I was happy to hear about SBMM before they released it, just because i played a lot and was in red Rank, but it felt like i didn't belong in there.
It was impossible to de-rank while playing normally for me, because i never even lost a Pip, so the Game started to be frustrating.
But... It is even more frustrating how it is now.
If they would change the "save-Pip", where you don't lose a pip or let it be possible to lose 2 Pips if the Game was really bad, it would help in my opinion.
I don't want to be forced to stay on Rank, i want to lose Pips... i don't care about being in high Rank. I just want to play casually.
I know they invested a lot of time and resources in sbmm but i think a full rank reset system would be better for the health of the game since i have noticed changes and updates has been more about fun.
There were "tests" of implementing the SBMM system where it would switch between it being enabled during matchmaking and not. I remember noticing the difference and not liking the sbmm being on, and also hearing many others agree. In typical bhvr fashion, yhis won't be addressed for years if ever at all though.
Unless you played thousands upon thousands of games and tracked certain variables they use to determine how players are matched its literally impossible to tell the difference of various matchmaking systems.
For how many games a normal person can play you cant make a statistical evaluation from that. Its just you trying to confirm an opinion you have beforehand at most with anecdotal evidence
ii personally wish they would keep what they have but have emblems that actually show rank i have been playing Rocket League recently and love how they have ranks and everyone can see it and you come into the game knowing how its gonna be even though i know in asymetrical it wont have perfect ranks but also just would be nice to have a chill playlist people would still play pretty hard but maybe losen up on the crazy builds and stuff idk
Now I don't know if my take is good but what I would like, would be a "Casual Mode without SBMM" and a "Competitive mode with SBMM". Casual being that it puts you against completely random players of all skill levels. Competitive being full SBMM with a rank system replaced instead of the grade (grade being separated and kept to Casual). You win you gain MMR, you lose you lose MMR and each rank set at a specific MMR that would then represent your rank. None of this hidden MMR trash that no one sees and just causes confusion. For example Bronze, Silver, Gold and then maybe some ranks with the games theme like Names, Logo etc. I haven't played this game since 2021 and I just came back to it a few days ago. I've already noticed how much harder my games have been getting. Therefore making me try adapt to those games which then make me tryhard and a have a high Heart Rate. (I only have 341 hours btw) I just want to have a fun casual experience and run any perks, items, add ons, offerings without having to rely on them for me to keep up or stand a chance whatsoever.
I don't know about DBD but it is why i stopped playing COD, once i realised what was happening and why i was getting so angry at my seemingly random ability to play well i lost all interest in playing online.
After a while in MW2019 i started to notice a pattern in the matches i was getting, i would get absolutely destroyed for 2-3 matches then there would be 1 where i was playing against the worst players on the planet, and the cycle would repeat, never anything in between it was only extremes, it's like a psychological rollercoaster any optimism you enter the game with gets ripped away when the match is instantly one sided, then you get the pity match where there's no satisfaction because you're destroying little Timmy who just got his first video game.
Before i realised that my performance was being decided by an algorithm i was getting so depressed at my sudden decline, i thought maybe age was getting to me but the sudden swings were so random, my ability to control the game still felt ok, sometimes you come back the next day thinking you've reset and things will be different but it doesn't seem to make a difference, you start surrendering yourself to whatever result the SBMM has decided to award you, you play the hard games worse and sleep through the easy ones, you're not playing for fun anymore, it's the worst most manipulative experience i've ever had in a multiplayer game.
The low level players should be protected from the high level players but that's about as far as SBMM should go, i think of multiplayer games like kids playing sports, there isn't a sinister matchmaking dude in the school yard measuring kids abilities and crafting the most competitive and serious matches the world has ever seen... they're just a random assortment of kids let them have fun, let us have fun.
I have a solution, but it sacrifices queue time.
Casual and ranked matchmaking.
In Casual, you can face anyone and your SBMM rank will not go up or down.
In Ranked your SBMM is used to find opponents and can go up or down.
Just like games that already have this system (think league of legends), there would be exclusive season rewards for playing ranked as an incentive.
There's nothing on the line in a casual match, and you would queue being aware of that, inherantly reducing stress of the match.
Going into ranked would be the opposite, and the place you bring your A game.
The game would not need to be rebalanced to do this, just keep on as it has been.
What make player want to play again is like the casino effect when you win the brain gives positive feedback and when you lose but feel like you were about to win brain also gives positive feedback just like a learning experience
Ssbm is like if you sweat you have positive feedback only when you win when you lose it s negative or when you cap your skill level it’s constantly negative
I think people need to take into account the nature of the game being asymmetrical. Another huge factor that skewers things is SWF, where you can have 4 stacks of strong players that essentially make winning impossible for killers who aren't top-tier running meta perks.
I noticed the minute that they introduced SBMM I was having less fun overall, and even though I've never been all too good at DbD I was still finding myself, having to try as hard as possible to even have a chance at escaping or killing one person. I got burnt out after 3 months! After that I returned for a week and took many more months off after. I did that a few more times only to eventually uninstall the game and never look back, all this to say that I think it's hands down the worst decision they ever made, and it ruined the game for me.
I used to play a lot of Assassin's Creed multiplayer (from Brotherhood to Black Flag) and the game was super fun, partially because matchmaking was much more lenient with how it'd match players. The 11 other players would be a mixed bag of players from different skill brackets, and their tactics would vary wildly between eachother.
I was extremely good at those games, but it was so much fun getting chased by 2 high level players and then a low level player will rush in and kill you armed with only a hope and a prayer. It was part of what made the game fun: High level players are predictable, but low level players are not. You cannot plan your 2500 point kill and wait for the perfect opportunity, because at any point, a low level player could very much take their 300 point kill in hopes to rank up from 10th to 6th position.
You can plan your Focused Poison play for 1000 points, but I can guarantee you having one or two newbies on the lobby will make you think twice about it because they WILL pull out a gun and take their 150 point kill leaving you with absolutely nothing.
The game was absolute chaos and I loved it, much more than these "perfectly balanced" matches nowadays.
I love this game and I have 3.6k hours in it, but within the last year since SBMM I can rarely play it for long. Even when I return from breaks, the high MMR I made months ago is still high and rarely can enjoy games. The most I played in the last year was during the blood event, once that was over I barely can touch it. The TIGHT, sweaty games is not worth the 20k BP in the end
The rollercoaster of emotions when absolutely dominating or getting destroyed in one gamesession, has been stopped by sbmm.
I dont understand why they simply dont add a ranked gamemode that is based off of a rating system, and then have a casual gamemode that has no matchmaking . The problem with SBMM is that it doesnt consider the players wants at the time, whether or not somebody wants to win or have fun. Another issue is that the devs dont seem to understand that a VAST majority of players who play to win all the time are often doing so because it provides a sense of competitive satisfaction, which is not something everybody needs/wants. Players with these needs are players that would be playing ranked, not your casuals just looking to have fun. Let the people who derive satisfaction from sweat gaming play together and just let everybody else have fun. Am i wrong for thinking its so simple?
im sorry, getting locked into the highest skill bracket.... what? that is absolutely insane.
The last time I had fun and really enjoyed myself with DBD was 6 months ago when I was tryharding like my old entitled main survivor self for a tome challenge. The killer was a friend of mine who sniped me. Like me, he used to be very tryhard sometime ago, but as a killer, and he decided to tryhard to mess with me. It was a really good time, one of the best chases I've had in a long time because the game is stressful as heck. I don't have any more time to be this tryhard, and the game doesn't offer as much skill expression as it did when I started to play. All the matches feel the same, and if you don't tryhard, you lose a lot. I just want to join Discord and play some fun matches with my friends, not be the tryhard god of the game.
Just allowing an unranked mode would be more than enough for me. I don't always want to try hard and a casual environment would help me play without needing breaks to destress
Imma call it out right now, Most and i mean most of Otz's winstreaks are from before SBMM. Otz has said many times since the induction of SBMM streaks are incredibly harder for him. One of the reasons why he doesnt do them as much. Other ones like SupaAlf and Momo, thats just a Blight and Nurse issue. We can also look at Dowsey who was on 200 winstreak or something like that as the Twins but soon as SBMM was introduced, he got destroyed and lost his streak.
This is part of the reason that I find little enjoyment in video games nowadays. For me it's more than just sbmm, but also meta. I'm one of those players who will use the best stuff for a bit just to see what's good, but then branch out and try new things to up my skill, use variety and have fun without meta. When I do this, it's hard to get good with said items, weapons, characters, etc because I get stomped by people who religiously play the meta and use whatever is the best all the time in every match. It's so boring because when you queue up in most games, you already have an idea of what to expect.
Problem currently for me is I love playing killer but I like lower tier killers mostly for the fun of the m1 chase. And my matches just bounce between solo Que players who get destroyed at 3-4 gens. Or super high skilled probably swf players who use map offerings and med kits and stack meta perks. And there’s pretty much no in between those 2 only very rarely there is.
CoconutRTS can you review the new leather loop and infantry belt they now give you haste instead of extra hatchets and can you try a build around them
Aye a lot of people have been asking me about this, I've been getting to it! Just became passionate about these recent topics!
@@CoconutRTS What are your thoughts on the fog whisperer program?
Otz made a comment on this video, it appears as though he is fine with what we have in terms of matchmaking but doesn't like how the devs have no idea which direction to commit to. It also felt like he invalidated your entire argument because you made an error about describing the community events. He didn't agree with or acknowledge any points you made, it felt disingenuous on a logical standpoint.
I think I know the reason why: he's a fog whisperer, he would either stay silent or agree with anything with too much attention because it is his livelihood that is at stake and the studio could revoke his anti-cheater protection and status; this could explain why he's a fence-sitting contrarian when it comes to addressing problems with the game because he's afraid of retaliation of both his viewers and his sponsors, we can also see him disagree with and criticise Tru3Talent's suggestions in their recent discussion video without providing much suggestions himself.
The fog whisperer program is designed to facilitate organic advertisement, but if the members criticise BHVR they will be revoked of membership like Dowsey. To quote him:
"Hey guys, DOWSEY here. Just thought I'd add that honestly, I'm pretty happy to no longer be a Fog Whisperer. "
"At first, when I was removed (in November) I was pretty sad, but over time I've come to realise that there was a lot of freedom now. There was always a lot of pressure to maintain a positive face of the game and I personally feel like the four patches immediately after I was removed was pretty bad from BHVR and it felt good to be able to give an unfiltered opinion without feeling like I was walking on eggshells with BHVR." --Video title "Why DOWSEY is no longer a Fog Whisperer."
While it was made to benefit the public image, it also inadvertently harmed the community by preventing the creators from informing their viewers and providing feedback on game design and the dev's decisions.
Stopped playing back in August cause I didn't enjoy only playing a "ranked" option.