It's funny that, lore wise, that's why the survivors have their memory wiped after trials, so they don't go ''it changes nothing if i die or survive; I'm always back to the same campfire''.
In lore wise, the entity realm is like his own purgatory that works like the backrooms that there's a special way to get in but there's no escape from it
My guess is they're removing depips because it disproportionately effects survivor players. My experience as a killer player is that even at Iri 1, you can end a match with like 4 hooks and 0 kills, but still not lose a pip as long as you spend enough time in chase and get some regression and injuries. I know for a fact though that probably about 15%-25% of survivors will depip, and especially with how prevalent tunneling is, if you get tunneled as survivor you are depipping every time. A lot of the time (definitely not all of the time though) dying at 3 or 4 gens as survivor isn't a result of you playing poorly, but a result of the killers playstyle, and they wanted that to be less punishing.
@@cc-corruptor4492 its not like there aren't things to help with/prevent the playstyle from being effective, in fact most balance changes as of late have been to combat that, depending on the killer it can be difficult but not impossible if you depip its usually cause you did play bad and i think thats a pretty good way go reflect that you and/or your team couldve done a lot better (though in solo q the team thing can get frustrating)
@@streagzach3148The main issue with that is that you have to run entire builds dedicated to countering specific play styles where you fight against meta incase you go against a meta build killer, instead of simply being able to just play the game in a way that you find fun. It isn't really a reasonable expectation to have to dedicate perk slots for counterplay, on the off-chance that someone is running a play style that is *so* powerful that you need to make a build around it
I think Coco might have a better point if survivior scoring actually reflected how important/good you were in a match. There's been plenty of matches where I depip/safety because I did gens the whole match while killer tried to tunnel 1 person and failed. I can't control how a killer plays, the game doesn't properly adjust to certain situations so I'm okay with depipping being removed. The punishment for losing is still time wasted (not gaining a pip) and since getting to iridescent 1 only means how much you play the game and you get rewarded with BPs, then I'm fine with this change. I do agree with the multiple points listed in this video about chat filter, removing fun stuff, humiliation, etc.
@@thefear420 It's weird; I feel like the chat filter and all the other stuff is totally unrelated to the depipping. it feels like he completely missed the point of why depipping was being added and the reason for it definitely was not "Losing feels bad"
since they started hiding your rank behind having to click the tp right of screen i 99% of time dont even care about looking at rank anymore. End of day its just for BPS means nothing more than just for bps and the change will only make it so if you get into matches where killers tunnel you or slug everyone you dont depip for situations out of your control. Good change imo but far from whats needed to fix state of game currently. I dont think its about holding hands or babyfication of mechanics. Its same in reverse for when killers go against a mega sweaty swf with no control over match. At end of day its bloodpoints and has 0 baring on your skill in game.
I agree, I don't think removing depips requires a psychoanalyzation of the playerbase, however much they may need it the rank hasn't meant anything for two and half years now and is now even more hidden than before, just makes it easier to get more bloodpoints on the 13th every month, idk why people would not be happy with that
@@frb5237 I don't think you understood the purpose of the video. What he was saying was that they have kept removing things that make the other side feel bad such as mori spamming and flashlight clicking. What's next are they gonna remove the ability to crouch up and down quickly to get rid of tbagging. That was the point of the video.
@@Delicousjam933 I said the point of the video was aimlessly psychoanalyzing the player base. You say I missed the point, and that the point of the video is aimlessly psychoanalyzing the player base. ??? I understood the point of the video perfectly, I just disagree. I don't think that this is indicative of coddling players. Grades exist solely to make an old feature that is otherwise obsolete and BHVR didn't want to ditch entirely do something. It's just bloodpoints. Removing depips isn't comparable to removing tbagging, it's comparable to reducing the bloodweb grind, because that is what it is actually doing. Depipping serves no purpose now, so I view it as further modernizing the feature. But people will find a way to complain about a change that literally every single player stands the benefit from.
@@frb5237 I'm not complaining I just think that it is lame that rank doesn't mean anything anymore and pips don't mean anything anymore. That is the point of the video because people don't like losing so much eventually they'll just take out everything that punishes you for losing and rewards you for winning. What I think would be a much better change would be to make the pips and bp be a team thing, because I watched a hens333 video and through data mining people figured out that only what you do improves your score. Instead of removing the ability to depip they should've made it so that if you are doing something for your team you all get points and vice versa but, if you're not the one on a gen for example, you don't get as many points but it still helps to mitigate the loss if you're getting tunneled. That would make it much easier to get pips while still keeping the punishment if you do bad, but that's just my opinion. If you disagree I'd like to know why because I feel that's a better and fairer change to the game.
@@Delicousjam933 It's because they don't want to completely remove or rework the emblem system which is now obsolete for determining how well you played. The Hens video is about MMR and emblems are not MMR. Grades and pips haven't "meant anything" since Sept 2021, the realization that the emblem system doesn't need a punishment at all is actually just two and a half years late. They already went half way with removing your grade decreasing which came with MMR since the beginning. The implication that BHVR is removing the punishment for losing for the sole purpose of coddling the player base is where you/Coconut are incorrect. They're doing it because depips legitimately have no reason to exist anymore and all this change does is make it easier to get more bloodpoints, which no one should be upset over. But alas.
This really feels like an ivory tower perspective. Maybe de-pipping adds fun tension to the game when you already have everything unlocked, but for most of us who are still in the unlock grind, the extra BP from ranking up is really nice. And if you need an artificial rank increase to care about whether you win or lose the game, then you aren't really playing to enjoy the game, are you?
exactly, i have everything unlocked and i KNOW how much grind it was to get, it is my most joy to gain 2 million BP everytime on the 13th and its the most annoying shit to de-pips even sometimes when its not even my fault but shitty teammates or cheaters.. I agree with most things coco says but here he doesnt know what the hell he is talking about.
A lot of people enjoy ranking up in games because it’s exciting and gives them a sense of progression and satisfaction. I am in the unlocking phase so I know what you mean about blood points, but they should just add a permanent multiplier to the amount of blood points per match instead of removing the ranks
@@Classicv5no, de-pipping because you happen to be paired with a wannabe bully trio is the worst thing ever, im glad de-pip and de-rank are gone, they shouldve been removed way sooner.
@@liandre9035 So you don’t want a pip system because it bothers you when you lose a pip? I gotta agree with the guy in the video that it’s kind of an infantile response to have.
With the depip system, if players who got into Iri ranks or anything for that rotation, they suddenly feel as if they aren't allowed to play games for fun or mess around because they will be robbed of bloodpoints for trying to have fun.
then you could still make it a climb to reach iri but hitting the top removes depipping completely. I think it would be both. A fun experience in the climb but then you can do whatever you wanna "at the top"
@@ichweissnicht6888 That's already how it has been for years. You haven't been able to drop a grade from depipping since the grade system was implemented.
@@ichweissnicht6888 they are removing the "getting to the top" part so now you can goof around in the middle of ranking up and it wont impact the progress you had towards the next pip. it's a minor thing though. tbh they should just move to an xp system similar to devotion so people aren't confused about the grades. i've seen returning players and new players alike that think that the grades are their mmr. that way you always are making progress towards it regardless of how the game went.
@@MrNigel117 I agree. how would that work tho? like every lvl 10 k BP per lvl resetting on the 13th? I am somewhat sure they wanna keep that monthly model
@@joshhampton7235I play killer, I feel like sweating and wanting to win every game makes u angry. Sweating is a mindset. I still run pop pain res don’t get me wrong. But I be chillin. Whatever happens happens😊
@@joshhampton7235 I've mained killer (pyramid head) ever since his release and even before that I was a killer main, I also despise playing survivor as I think it is one of the most repetitive gaming experiences out there.
Okay but your looking at it from a perspective of you as a content creator or like someone who plays the game almost competitively, now think about it from the perspective of like my mother or someone who comes home from like a 11 hour shift, the removal of depip gives players that dont have the time to GRIND ranks the time to finally hit iri 1 and feel proud, sure you could tell them that the depip got removed but its not infantizing the rank system its simply a new way for older and way younger players to feel better about reaching the goals they struggled with before thus encouraging them to try to do it again next 13th of the month giving them this new feeling of them being good at a game and being rewarded for spending thier little time to themselves in thier busy schedule to play the game and enjoy it, your too focused on the fact that "it will ruin the gain" maybe shift your focus of rank being stale shift it to new and cool feature
And on top of that i would like to mention, you quoted gaben (all hail) and proceeded to quote him on the development of a SINGLE player game, if you apply that same mind set to a multiplayer game then you proceed to set this precident that you have to use the most broken builds so you can escape, And you do see that! The depip and the mmr status and the constant want to grind has left swf' to run the same 4 perks that all play with eachother perfectly, theres no room for imagination and then leads the killer to use the most optimal perks for that killer, the mindset of "rewarding and punishment" of winning and losing leads people to run the same thing everytime leaving no imagination or learning new perks. We get new perks with every killer and survivor but look, we still all see adrenaline, dead hard, boil over, decisive and things like that, why? Because its fun? No because its the most optimal, people have to make it a "challenge" to use a new perk setup, a "challenge" to have fun and they run the risk of running into the sweatiest people alive while just trying to have fun
Why would you feel proud and accomplished for receiving the digital equivalent of a participation trophy? If you can get to the top rank while losing 90% of your matches then it seems pointless from that perspective
the problem is that bhvr starts kinda neglecting veteran players and im not talking about this video but just overall. And majority of dbd playerbase are people who take this game very seriously
pipping as a survivor has always been needlessly difficult . survivors shouldn't depip if the killer goes afk or if the team plays way too efficiently to the point that survivors don't have a chance to heal/unhook each other , have a chance to do gens, or be chased.
Even the most popular dbd youtubers have said that the pressure of having to “win” every match had become very stressful. I think this helps to remove some of that pressure.
This is a common feeling in most multiplayer based games. Wanting to win is natural for people. No one wants to lose. But you also don't see a lot of these games catering to the baby players. 2 choices - get better or stay where you are and eventually quit.
That's more to do with their perceived skill level rather than depiping though, ever since ranks were separated from MMR I've not heard someone use ranks as a way of judging if someone is good.
@@CaptToilet There's difference between "get better" and sweat your ass in 4 man swf or as nurse with 4 slowdowns. Dbd is casual game, it's not cybersport and never will be, just because it's almost impossible to balance. I don't talk about comp dbd because they have rules and team swaps, it's not "killer team vs survivor team"
@@systembeard6959 It doesn't have to be a casual game. That's the point. And people who want to play that way shouldn't be stopped from doing so because the community also has babies in it. Make a ranked mode, simple way for everyone to win. Ranking up is absolutely a competitive thing for many people, it was also one of the most popular challenges on YT. Hardcore survivor. This change would completely ruin that. So just because you personally don't see it as competitive, your view is not everyone else's, and never will be. I have no problem with you wanting to be in a safe casual bubble. But I'm not interested in playing that way, that's not remotely satisfying whatsoever to me. And your way of living shouldn't impact mine. We should be able to have separate modes so we don't have to be around each other. Everyone wins.
Strange takes imo. To the first point thta's actually about de-pipping: What is the punishment for losing a soccer game against your friends? Or losing a game of Mortal Kombat? Or dying in a single player game and having to start from the last checkpoint? The fact that you lost, that you were defeated, that you weren't up to the challenge IS the punishment. It feels good to win and it feels bad to lose. That's it. Of course there are nuounces like it doesn't feel good to win if you're playing against someone who is obviously so much worse than you that you don't have a challenge, but in general, winning and losing in themselves are reward and punishment. And whilst I agree that toxicity was and still is one of the most fun parts of the game (my friends and I used to say the post game chat is more fun than the match), it can also be super annoying. Like mori spamming wasn't bad because it was bm, it actually just took time away from a player's life. That's why t-bagging and hitting on hook haven't been removed. It's fine to rub your victory into you opponent's nose, that's fun for the one doing it and can be an incentive for the receiving player to become better, but shouting slurs at someone in the post game chat or just wasting everyone's time is something different imo.
The reason for removing de-pipping is that when you get towards Iri rank it basically becomes a gamble as to whether the players will cooperate with you advancing or not. When you de-pip because your teammates refused to get you off the hook, or because you ran into a SWF, it doesn't feel like you've lost because you played poorly and deserved it. It feels instead like you were robbed.
At least as surv even if you manage to loop the killer for 5 gens but die in the end you sure will lose a pip in gold or at least in iri also all other survs will maybe get a black pip or lose one aswell because ther only did gens i just have the luck to not care about it at all. If the killer is afk and dont dc its the same you will for sure lose a pip because you dont have the chance to get one out of good playing and that can suck for many players
I also think they added de-pip because of the tunnelling too, ive seen many players go berserk just because they lost a pip because they got hard tunnelled out of the game.
Why are people on Twitter acting like the grade/"de-pip'ing" affects your Rank or MMR? Since it's introduction sometime ago, it was always strictly for Bloodpoints. I mean, I STILL see Survivors going into games without items or offerings, so I don't think the extra guaranteed Bloodpoints will change much.
They might not know any better. Still to this day I hear people saying things like “I’m in a lobby with 3 P100 teammates. Why does the game think I’m that good?”
@@ghostflame9211I mean being able to even see that is a more recent thing. I personally have 0 clue how people can have prestige that high, I don’t even have all the teachables. P100 is like what, 85 million blood points or something? You could P3 every other character with that many points, how can someone have enough points for to just waste like that?
@@fatcat2015 It varies on how often people play and if they spend their Iri Shards on Bloodpoints as well. I saw my first P100 within a month of the system, but it's regular for me to see a P100 atleast once a night. But yeah, like how the person you commented to said, being P100 doesn't necessarily correlate to Skill.
"to not have enough faith that our community can take a little negativity to the point where we treat them like infants" when I play chill every like 3rd game I get hit with "ezzz, bot" and when I play aggressively, tunnel, camp, etc to secure the win I get told to off myself. I played previous games with quite toxic communities, like rainbow six siege, cs, etc but I never met more weird fucks that go onto your steam profile just to write "- rep dogshit tunneller" or some other toxic stuff. Even though I had a lot of wholesome moments in this game, I'd even say way more than in other games, I've also had an astonishing amount of hate for just trying to win and that is sucking the fun out of the game for me. I heavily disagree with the notion that dbd is pandering to players that can't take "a little negativity", bc there's FUCK TON of toxicity in the game as it is
u dont need to tunnel or camp to win therefore u are a dogshit killer like most other killers that resort to the cheapest way to win i never tunnel or camp and still do really well in most my matches sometimes i get done bad but thats bc they are simply better something more killers need to admit there are people better then them
@@foulrotit would let those who care about being serious in this game go against others who are serious in this game and dont want the game to become more chill. Its the whole point of why pvp games have a ranked/casual mode where one is for fun while goofing around and the other mode for those who usually get infuriated when someone is goofing around and not in "ptfo" mode(play the fricking objective). Gamers are either having fun by goofing around in a game or by being serious and enjoy competing with one another. Sports like football irl wouldnt exist if people didnt enjoy competing against other humans to see who is better at something and working on improving to become the best and beat others. Its a thin line between being serious and being a dipshit, which we cant fully avoid crossing both in games and irl, but we shouldnt patronizr either side on how they have fun or mitigate their enjoyment for the sake of someone else's feelings. Either separate and make people play with likeminded individuals or let the community settle it amongst themselves without coddling them like a helicopter parent with bubblewrap blankets.
Something to consider is that pips and bp are not an accurate representation of player performance. For example, it's impossible to get iri in one of the survivor categories if you're hooked once (which incentivizes avoiding killer interaction) when it's often a REALLY GOOD IDEA to trade hook states or take protection hits; another example is that taking the killer on a single 5 gen chase will result in less pips/bp compared to a survivor who wins a few short chases despite the former player providing game winning value by distracting the killer for minutes on end and the latter player often making killer aggro the rest of the team's problem. Pips and bp also provide a really unintuitive incentive structure for killers where it really doesn't like you using the Exposed status effect because that results in less chases overall despite spending less time in chases actually being the goal when playing killer. Even though this change is pushing the system towards being MORE meaningless and arbitrary, that doesn't change the fact that it was already meaningless and arbitrary.
Punishment for losing in a casual game just descentivizes experimentation. Why bring a meme build or play casually if youre gonna get punished and lose your pips for it? And thats not even considering all the other factors, like losses being largely outside of your direct control on soloq survivor, etc. If you feel there should be punishment for losing outside of simply the loss, then you must believe this game is more competitive focused than casual focused, something the devs clearly disagree with you on. This game isn't popular because of the toxicity or the competitive scene, BHVR clearly understands that. Nobody is playing this game because they liked that teenagers could call them slurs in end game chat and BM them lol, or at least most people aren't. I don't think BHVR is infantilizing the game, they're trying to make it less frustrating for the majority of their playerbase and reduce the toxicity where reasonable. I'd much rather they do that, stop people from putting slurs in text chat, stop people from BM'ing others, stop making losses more frustrating then they need to, and focus on making the experience better. Also just because I got that part, the game is stale because the gameplay loop hasn't changed in 7 years and everyone brings the same perks on the same killers/survivors over and over because BHVR doesn't do enough to shake things up. It's not because BHVR is somehow stripping the stakes or emotion from the game from trying to prevent toxicity.
there are more serious gamers in this game than people think. Some people do not find enjoyment by acting casual and find fun in competing with others and also performing perfect teamwork. The game clearly needs a way to separate people who want to goof around without taking things seriously and those that treat it as an e-sport cause if the majority of players were casuals indeed as you say, toxicity would be extremely low and almost nobody would get salty for losing.
@@Devilforce988 exactly, a lot of people like to say this game is a party game and isn't competitive, those same people will bring strong perks, strong addons, take the killer to bad killer maps (springwood, erie, garden of joy) go down in a corner of the map, med kit with syringe and charges. killers will play nurse, blight, spirit. people can say all they want this game is not competitive, but it really is. anything the survivors or killers do to give them an advantage is competitive game play. people don't want to hear it.
Most people feel that ESCAPING is winning. The ranking system is just there to tell individual players you did good. The ranking system lets me, as a survivor feel like I did good for my team even though there is a average 60% chance as a solo survivor that I will die every match.
For me the "win hierarchy" is 1. I played super well and did my best and had fun 2. 3-4 escape/kills 3. 2 escape/kills is a draw The way to play this game is not to look at the OVERALL win, it's to look at individual wins like "Man I looped really well here"
@@Amyaddisoniscool nah dude, that backwards thinking is what makes this game so toxic and miserable. you think a killer with 9 hooks 1 kill lost but a killer who tunnels and proxys 1 out at 5 gens and barely manages to get a 2nd kill in end game is better because they "draw" instead of "lost"? yall out of your damned minds i swear XD
@@tiy_baptism On the contrary tbh. I'm not calling you toxic, I'm just using your response as am example. From my expierence in the community, what makes us toxic is the inherent need to seem superior or to hold the correct opinion on a subject instead of just letting other players play, think and enjoy the game how they want. Their opinion is correct because it's how they enjoy the game. Just like how your opinion is correct because that is how you enjoy the game. A lot of the DBD community feels the need to just interject and prove the other person wrong due to the opinion that they hold. They will often result to using extremism and use drastic examples to try and "win" the "argument" that they started by telling someone their opinion is wrong. It's happened to me countless times when I used to defend Made For This as a killer main. I used to say "It's seriously not that bad. If you struggle to learn when to drop chase and go for someone else then that is on you." Just stating my opinion and people would come in and just try to use any and every example they can to prove my personal expierence using/facing the perk as the "inferior" take. I'd get roasted for thinking a mid af perk was indeed mid af. All in all, both you and the person you responded to are correct. You find the game fun when you view it from your perspective. They find it fun when they view it from their perspective. There's no wrong in that.
I don't think you understand what's going on here. The people who are whining about depipping are the ones making it deep. Coconut is merely responding. There was literally some AMA with a "DBD psychologist" talking about how depipping is so humiliating and acting like something needs to be done about it to preserve people's mental health. It's beyond dumb and coconuts is 100% right.
@@kltil5082its the other way around. People like coconut are whining about this change. How is removing depipping even babying the game? Its not like you got a pip for doing good In a game. You got a pip for doing objectives that dont require much skill like cleansing, doing gens and staying alive. If you did too well, you had the chance to depip, since you didnt do enough objectives. And lets not forget the RNG elements of this game. The random map chosen, the items and addons, the map layout and the killer choice can all affect the overall match.
If people choose to act like infants by being toxic in personal interactions and trying to make people feel bad about themselves why should BHVR treat them like anything else? It shouldn't be any player's "right" to be a dick and if taking away pip regression helps to fend off the toxic portion of the community by robbing them of satisfaction then good. People should be playing to get better themselves or to pull off good plays for themselves, not just to flip off the other side.
1. I believe de-pipping is because survivors got punished for being tunneled or being too good that you got punished for killer not getting enough hooks. 2. DBD was popular because it was described as a party game and slowly got transformed into competitive game which has turned into toxic community and people leaving the game because of it so if you remove the mindset of " ranks " it may relax the player base a little for people to come back
I agree with pretty much 90% of what you're saying. The issue I *personally* see is that there is just a clear misunderstanding amongst a lot of the community. I have had to explain to my friends that the "grade" system means nothing and is an arbitrary grind for BP every month. These people have over 6k hours while I'm sitting at a measly 2.5k. The issue is that DBD/Bhvr doesn't do a good job at explaining this. They make it such a seemingly prevalent thing that is always being showcased - yet they provide absolutely minimal explanation on how it works. On top of that, the push to get Iri 1 every rotation wouldn't be so prevalent if they actually improved the base BP grind. The most fun I have playing DBD is during Blood Hunts because I feel actual progress is being made. If they just allowed us to get 100k BP for a good match, it would be amazing. It's still 10 matches of attempting to maximize BP per side, which would encourage more fair play. Add in actual BP reduction actions for aspects of gameplay that aren't "favorable" and all will be fine.
This is honestly the worst take I’ve heard you say. The removal of depipping is the best decision they’ve made this patch. DBD is a casual game, there SHOULDN’T be a “punishment” for losing because losing is INEVITABLE. All the removal of depipping does is allow me to not need to sweat every single game in order to feel a sense of progress. I can experiment with builds, I can give the last survivor hatch without fear the game will say I “lost” by taking my pips. The only reason I don’t play more wholesome is because of depipping. Killers like billy, bubba, Sadako are especially hard to pip with just by the nature of their powers and how the emblem system works. With depipping you could be heavily punished for just playing a killer the emblem system doesn’t favor. Don’t even get me STARTED on survivor. If you lose a pip as survivor all it means is you got tunneled, something completely out of your control. On top of that, at high grade you’re effectively competing with teammates because there sometimes are just not enough things in the match to do to pip. An Iridescent Unbroken emblem is effectively impossible to get because when the hell are you ever going to escape without ever getting downed? The only time I feel I can truly have fun in DBD is when I just grade up and have no pips to lose. I have days where I want to play dbd but don’t feel confident that I won’t depip so I don’t play. To players who don’t care about popping it will not affect them at all, for players like me who love a sense of progression it makes the game infinitely more enjoyable and less stressful.
Nah, removing depips just encourages crappy survivors thinking they'll make it and every game will be a 4k because theyre "baby" survivors. Just get better at the game and if you can't.... Stop playing 🤷
I agree, idk where this whole "this game's for babies now I want healthy toxicity that's why the game's fun" argument is coming from. This change is literally just a safety net for progression so people can get bp easier and don't get punished for trying to do challenges. Your emblem and grade are pretty much just playtime up to Iri 3-1 anyway
Pips are a game of chance. You're against tombstone myers? You ARE depipping. He's not hooking anyone, not injuring anyone. You want that pip back? You need a 15+ minute slog of a game where you spam heals against legion instead of gen rushing. Survivors Gen rushed? Surivors AND Killers Depip! 4k at 5 gens remaining? You just undid your 15 minute slog! It even discourages playing soloq survivor, better wait for your friends to log in.
@@ghostmonkeycustoms3766nothing what you said makes any sense. I don't know if you're just really bad at english or you just don't know what you're talking about. Most people play this game casually and since there's no separate ranked and casual queue, there shouldn't be a punishment for losing when you're just trying to have fun. Especially since the pips don't affect your mmr.
Depipping "removing" the punishment for losing is purely a thing because pipping/depippin is the only real indication of how well you did in a game. Your MMR still goes down if you lose but because you never see your MMR you don't think about it when you lose. It is really annoying to lose progress towards ranking up because the game decided after a 3k vs 2 bots that I shold go against 3 swfs back to back to back. Without depiping the punishment for losing is not making progress towards ranking up, rather than having previous progress lost due to things outside your control.
There's something extra punishing about dying/losing in DBD already. When I die in dbd it feels worse than other games. I haven't quite figured out why though.
I agree and don’t know either. Maybe it’s the horror (death/failure) aspect? Maybe it’s the intimate 4v1 setting with a human opponent (as opposed to 4-player co-op like L4D). Still can’t figure it out.
inherently, a game in which there is a winner or loser will lead to feelings of humiliation for the loser and feelings of domination for the winner. However, even when nothing is at stake (pips, mmr visibility), there is still the motivation to not become humiliated + to be dominant. I think BHVR is simply trying to remove the tangible consequences of losing. It is generally a good idea to make everyone feel as dominant as possible, but in a game like DBD, you simply have no control over that.
Same here, he is making more of a fuss about it, when in reality for many of us playing casually and for fun it's a great boon along with the bots. One thing he is missing is there are barely any real consequences for rage quits on both sides, having at least the consequences lessened on those who don't is a step in the right direction.
Skill issue on your part. You should have made it easier for him to catch you so he’d stay engaged and not rage-quit. 🙄 Why does the emblem system incentivize a entire 12-hook, 5-gen match when that conflicts with every other aspect of this game? 😂
Honestly being unable to lose pips means I can finally meme a bit more as Deathslinger or the like, since normally I'd be way more inclined to use, you know, a killer that isn't trash and run 2-4 gen slowdown perks instead to keep up with things. With this change, I can go to Iri and not give nearly as much of a fuck at a garbage match against 4 Seal Team Six members that are doing stupid clock callouts and the like. You call it Infantilization, I call it making it more casual, which was what its intended roots were imo
Gabe there isn’t talking about a game like dbd where you are inherently punished for every poor decision you make when looping that causes hooks and kills. Everyone is doing something that is punishing to the collective
Answering your question before watching the rest: my best guess is that the removal de-pipping is to allow players to gain more bp in general to keep up and catch up with the ever growing roster. an old player may be like "I don't need all this bp" but a new player is like "I need so much bp, it's going to be impossible for me to get all my characters prestieged to unlock their perks", so this addresses the latter while having no real bearing on the former.
Wow you mean you have to play the game, play with perks you wouldn't normally use to get familiar with the game when you're new, and learn from your mistakes in order to progress? Yeah you're right, that's terrible. I can't believe so many games have been torturing their fanbases like that for so long. I barely play as much as I used to and I'm constantly forced to spend BP because of the 2mil cap (which needs to be upped or made non existent). This event is so insanely easy to earn BP on it's not even funny. 5 matches with losses is basically enough to fully level up a character ffs. How much easier do you want this?
@@kltil5082one never knows. it's silly because once you get everyone prestieged you pretty much have no value for bp anymore, thus why I'm saying that it's probably something to boost new players than to reward older players. I honestly don't really pay attention to my ranking too much, myself, but that's because it already just goes up on its own. you can't de-rank even though you can de-pip, so it's just reducing the failure floor to a neutral point.
As someone who couldn’t care less about pipping, I think this change can help new players who haven’t ranked up characters far. With how many characters there are now on both sides, and with all the items, offerings, etc, it can take a while for new players to level up bloodwebs. This can help them level faster, and while it’s not much everything helps This is just my first glance opinion, so take it with a grain of salt
We all got drawn into the game when we first found it, feeling the hope and achievement of the progress we made. But slowly, the more we played the life of the game got sucked out change by change until finally, we lost that sense of hope and fun. The progress of the game truly reflects its own story to a T
I don't particularly have an opinion on the "no depip". However the thing I would say is that what happens quite often with me is: Im tilted, because of that I go down really quick, and I am considering just dying on hook and go take a break. The thing that often stops me is the though "I didn't really do much for any category, might depip, so let me get off hook and have some more chases/gens/heals before I die". Now there won't even be that. In my eyes, the consequence is that more people will be more willing to just give up hard games, rather than "waste time" trying to escape, pulling their (more hopeful and optimistic) teammates down the same grave.
I personally don’t identify with the notion that the goal is to always get a 4 man or to always get 4k’s. Since what the devs design for is a .6 sacrifice rate, my goal as survivor is to do my best to get at least 3 out. If my best doesn’t get that done, then the killer has beat my team and not necessarily bested me in a 1v1, so pubs can never lead to a personal vendetta. Tunneling me out is a valid strategy for winning and my teammates are responsible for reacting accordingly. If the match is a loss then being able to help the final person get hatch is that glimmer of hope protected. As killer I always come in to do my best and since the game has random elements and I don’t play either role with meta perks or mentality, yeah a loss has different choices I could have made. I could choose a stronger killer or build or burn maps and that just isn’t fun. I’m gonna laugh off the elitists and punish when possible, but it’s a game, no sense in hating.
Just because you don't lose a pip, doesn't mean you will now gain one. You still have to work to gain that pip and a bad game will still mean you may not gain one.
My gripe with de-pipping was only as a solo-queue survivor. I was trying to get Iri 1 on both Killer and Survivor for Wesker's release. Took a bit, but I got to Iri 1 on Killer fairly easily. When it came to Survivor, however, it was a struggle and gave up after only getting to Iri 2. This was mostly due to working in matches to gain a pip, then getting de-pipped in matches where the killer tunneled/camped me or my teammates gave up or DC'ed. I am not averse to a challenge as long as it is largely my fault I'm losing, but these circumstances honestly made it more frustrating than challenging in Iri ranks. Additionally, do we NEED a mechanical punishment for a loss? DbD is a versus game that brings about competitive feelings. Some have a stronger competitive nature than others, but most people will feel, at some level, "I want to win, I don't want to lose", and will feel bad just because they lost, and may take that loss to varying degrees. How many people have you seen that are upset about losing in DbD? Were they upset about losing a pip, or were they upset before they even got to the pip screen? Challenge reference for any souls/Elden Ring players: I fought Mohg without a summon or anti blood curse flask for 5 hours on my 1st playthrough and I'm trying to learn how to true dodge Malenia on my 2nd playthrough right now(personally hate this boss).
Also, a quick fix to how I view de-piping as frustrating in my original comment would be the following: -You can only de-pip if you spent more than 5-6(?) minutes in a match. -You de-pip if you DC or lose connection to a match. This would help prevent de-piping to things out of your control but still allow those who are in full-fledged matches the ability to de-pip if they aren't pulling their weight. The 2nd clause is just to prevent abuse of the 1st clause. The (?) Is because I don't know what the average match or some of the quickest match times are, adjust it for those variables.
@@Quintapion it only goes down if you die very early without getting a decent chase, like getting insta downed and tunneled out in the first 3 minutes. If you're killer it goes down if you do something like camping and tunneling the same survivor the whole game and getting only one kill.
The reason behind getting rid of depips is to make sure that someone’s not being wronged about being slugged, camped or tunneled or from the survivor’s stand point even feel like they’re doing a lot but the game registers it as not enough. Like how you’re supposed to do gens but also heal and take chase. But now, since everyone is tunneling, you can kind of guess that they’re dropping pallets. The “punishment for losing” would just be lack of bloodpoints, loss of item and add ons, loss of time in general for not being able to do much.
It’s what the game is becoming because: 1) BHVR doesn’t even know what type of game they have (is it competitive or casual?) To specify this point by making swf the main way to play this game on the survivor side: by default had made the game unplayable for killers (because in any other game-working together on comms is considered a huge unfair advantage) So they buff killers and nerf survivors to the point that this game is only playable for survivors if you are in a team that communicates with the utmost efficiency. 2) the community does not know how to act as adults. SWFs think they are superior players even tho the concept of how they’re playing in any other game would be considered cheating. Killers think they are superior even though devs have stated in previous interviews that they are changing the game to make the default killer exp a 3-4k. Everyone thinks this game is fine, all the mean while survivors get lousy content (chapter wise) because any good perk is “too op” in the game’s current state and killers get sweat fests almost every match. Maybe instead of barking around and b1t€h1ng like little kids; but instead work together and complain about the ACTUAL PROBLEMS this game has-the game would actually be fun again.
The issue is the side effect of tunneling and camping the game can be completely out of your control and you lose progression, because a killer decided "fuck you" today. There is still a reward for playing well, and by not playing well you don't progress towards that reward, but removing pips is just hostile game design.
I think the worst part of de-pipping for me was the point max screwing me over and forcing a de-pip even if i had a good game. You can't fully control it if a killer chases you for the whole game. If you've done this then you've done your team a really big service. You were a very important and integral part of the game...and then you de-pip. I don't think de-pips need to be removed i think the point system and how you gain points in a game needs to be reworked.
Have MMR not shown by default to both you and other players, as it currently is. Have an option in Settings, where you can turn MMR on -- when on, you see your MMR ratings, and on Match Results screen, you now see the MMR ratings of each player who also has the setting on. Casuals can live in blissful ignorance, not seeing their own or anyone elses' MMR, while those wanting a measurement of success can turn it on. Everyone wins. When you have MMR on, and you see the players in match results with no MMR shown also reveals a bit about their priorities and style (but NOT skill level), and is interesting, and adds to the community. Really, everyone wins. All I know is, is I have everyone at Level 9, and I have nothing left to do. Without things left to unlock and without a skill-based rating to try to improve, I have no goals, and I play DBD a lot less now. It sucks. I don't care about emblems and depipping, but yah, removing depips is one less goal for people to work on. You'll get rank 1 accidently while just working on a couple Archive pages. Meaningless.
I honestly think this change is partially a reaction to the reddit post by a physiologist talking about the stress and humiliationg of playing dbd. Yes the post was made 7 years ago but people didnt talk about it until these past few months
Playing only solo queue and having someone sacrifice themselves on hook, one person gives up and then one player becomes a bot. THEN I lose a pip as well? Since its just for blood points, I can appreciate it.
I don't know how it can be THAT hard for content creators (and other arrogant "elite" players) to understand: de-pipping is NOT fun in a game, where the outcome whether you make enough points or not, solely depends on 3 completely random people, who can sabotage your pipping on purpose. A party game with 100% RNG each and every match (killer, perks, map, items, layout, teammates, etc...) should NEVER have anything like deranking that frustrates players, when they can NOT control it! Period! Doesn't matter, what all those 10,000hrs content creators or tryhard sweatlords say...
I have the opposite opinion, the removal of the depip incentivizes more casual players to want to try and experiment with builds and play styles, instead of feeling obligated to try their hardest to win so they don’t depip.
I think it's more for those matches where ur hard tunneled out or u die on first hook where u can lose a pip through very little fault of your own so depipping along with the loss of the match is like a double loss since u can play well and die and still pip so that loss doesn't feel as bad because it shows u played well
If your argument is solely “why can’t you just play the game for fun who cares about the pip changes” then I ask - why are you even worried about it at all? It’s obviously not meant for you. It’s for people like me that are forced to deal with the cesspool that is solo queue most days. And since killers are tunneling and slugging more than ever, yeah, I don’t want to de-pip for five or six terrible games in a row that are mostly out of MY control. Like if you’re saying players are too sensitive and you should continue to de-pip for literal unbalanced matches - please just shut up.
Getting red 1 on killer is BALLS easy, and on survivor you can do good and run the killer and have someone give up on first hook with 3 gens left then you just lose a pip cause of other people, or you can do gens, heal people, escape, etc, and still lose a pip cause you didn't go out of your way to seek chases or protection hits at higher ranks. This is a good change. My sense of accomplishment should not come from hoping other people can perform.
It's very easy to say people don't have tough skin out of context. If every game you see people namecalling, every forum post is someone bitching about stuff, every interaction is negative, yeah, the toxicity is a big issue. It gets hard to ignore if it's everywhere. So much so that most content creators who engage in a playstyle they admit is OP or at least unfun to go against, they highlight when a survivor team or a killer takes it in a sportsmanlike manner. It's bad when the sportsmanlike conduct is just that rare that it gets highlighted in videos about the game instead of being the norm. It isn't because the community can't take a loss, I think. It's because a loss in DBD is usually caused by many things out of the player's control. So much so that the devs themselves said they want luck to be a factor in the winrates for both sides. Depipping has no purpose currently and hasn't had any purpose in the last 3 years due to how the matchmaking works. I don't see how keeping it around would make people take a loss better. Besides, a lot of people really don't care about losing or playing any given way.
Hey @CoconutRTS, I am speaking for myself on this subject about the game and if others agree with me, that's another story. I deal with mental health issues like MDD and PTSD and when I would play Dead by Daylight to meet new and old players alike in the game and get familiar with the community. That was all swell while I would play Survivor but whenever I played Killer, it was always excuses or shaming to me. It started off with them saying the very same statements and me brushing them off on stream/off stream. But as I started to play more and more of the game it went from not only them trolling me with comments but coming to my stream to shame me and with my mental health, it would snowball. With that being said, I enjoy your content because you can do what I can't and you promote such a positive aspect on the community and in the game as a whole. It just shames me that I can't even get myself to play the game nowadays (even though I still buy the content and maybe so often play the bots) because how alienated I felt playing a game I enjoyed because of that power dynamic you say brings people to play this game. I am not sure exactly how the community is nowadays but I truly try to play as a escape because my life is difficult but I can't even get myself past the menu at times because I just am discouraged to play. I may be that majority that you're calling "sensitive" but I only became that way in the community because of the habits people would do for enjoyment/trolling/content. Thank you if you took the time to read this and I hope you can respect my opinion as I do yours here in the comment(s).
depipping is stupid and easily abusable... you can just focus on 1 survivor as soon as the match starts, and send them out with 0 points ... noone wants that.
idk how not being able to unpip makes progressing/winning feel less fun. Losing still gives less BP (you get 7k for escaping, 8.5k if you were the obsession) and you lose your items. If you only care about losing because of pips, you didn't really care about losing to begin with. It still takes time and effort to hit grade 1, and losing still gives you no progress. Depipping is a relic of when it was tied to rank, if it's just for BP there's no reason to make you lose rank over it. Imagine complaining about more BP. dbd players will find anything to complain about, and will turn anything into a debate. Give it a few days and nobody will be talking about it because it doesn't matter Chat filter sucks, it barely works, it censors innocent things and lets bad things slip by, and there's no option to turn it off. But still I don't think it's infantilization to try to stop people from saying you ***ing **** r***** a** piece of S*** I hope you ***** in ****** for ***** yo whole family. Who needs to see that? Relying purely on reports and manual moderation is silly for a game of this size, taking some effort to try to stop some of the stuff before it happens is better than doing nothing about it Mori spamming literally served no purpose and only made the game worse. Imagine if survivors could control their character after leaving the killer's bounds of the exit gate, they would be teabagging forever and never leave until they got bored. Mori spamming was essentially the same thing, it just held the game hostage and paused the bleedout timer and was literally just toxic. The game was practically over (at least for the person being mori'd) and the killer is just stretching it out for no reason and it only ends when they get bored or the bleedout timer slowly creeps its way down. There are almost no good reasons to leave it in the game, while there are plenty of reasons to remove it Making a game fun for everyone involved should always be the goal of a game's creators. It should not be required for one participant to suffer for another to have fun. If pursuing the goal of mutual fun is seen as a problem, then the problem is not with the game but with the player. Dare I say, if you can only have fun by inflicting suffering on someone else, your fun isn't important People say the game is stale because it's the same damn thing for 8 years. Generators are not an interesting objective, and there is nothing else to do. It's not like F13 where there were other objectives to do and multiple ways to win, different ways of completing your goal. People have been playing the game a lot, it's natural that they will start getting tired of it when nothing has been added or changed about the core gameplay in forever. No other objectives, no other interactables, nothing like that. It's not because the game isn't toxic enough or doesn't have enough cuck simulator Also idk where people have been for the last 8 years. The game has always been toxic. In fact, toxicity is one of the main complaints people have about the game. Many people in the community say this is one of the most toxic games. I don't think they are saying it as a compliment Happiness isn't necessarily diminished by being shared, and it's not necessarily gained by being taken. I just feel like this whole idea of people need to be shitty to each other to have fun is silly. Ask anyone, the most fun and memorable moments in dbd are the wholesome friendly funny moments, not the times where they were screaming with veins bulging out of their neck about how much they hate the other player. I've seen far more people happy about the times they had a fun match with nice people and made some good friends, not so much when they got facecamped/teabagged and call 50 slurs and quit the game for the day
Except, even if I die, I can still pip up if I’ve participated enough in the trial. I find it motivating to be more active per trial, to do more than just gens. I liked that they removed the de-pip because some trials are over before they’ve begun and so I got nothing out of it.
I don't even look for my pips anymore since they hid the grades. I'm just looking at my player profile randomly and think "oh, I'm already Iri1? good to know."
i think that getting tunneled and you lose a pip is kinda annoying, i just want the bloodpoints from it because i'm a new player and need to level up to unlock the perks for everyone
Losing pips doesn't have anything to do with you getting bloodpoints from the matches. Your next game you'll get the same bloodpoints you would have gotten whether you got tunneled out the last game or not. Your argument makes no sense. This will change nothing about tunneling, you are still going to get tunneled and you're still going to get less points because you were killed earlier than other people. It's on your team to stop the killer from doing things like this, and if they can't then your team has lost the game. You know, the entire point of playing games? You seem to just want a walking simulator where points are handed out to you like candy, while using "im new here uwu" as an excuse. If you don't find learning from your mistakes fun then go play Barbie's dreamhouse where you can unlock characters without stress and have your little fashion shows for them. No one will ever call you trash at the game and you can live in a safe bubble. Ironically, this change is actually going to get you less BP. Because the higher you rank the more free BP you get at the end of the season. If they decide ranking is "too stressful" for players and get rid of it, then guess who's not getting anymore free lump sums of BP anymore? Yup, you. And everyone else. Even if your rank sucks you're still going to make a few hundred thousand.
NGL, I’ve been lurking in comments to see everyone’s opinions and I’m just gonna say I wouldn’t sweat about KLT’s comment 😭 I’ve been playing since awhile before huntress and the game has always been taken WAY to seriously by a lot of people. I also only have just enough BPs for levelling characters because I don’t *only* play DBD or consistently farm it so I don’t wanna have to relive farming BP for characters anytime soon 💀..
@@ThysJester thanks, i just don't know why someone just throws insults to someone for just giving their opinion, things just can't be a respectful debate when talking about dbd
@@jpks4582 Yeah this community is one of the most argumentive and tunnel visioned groups I’ve ever participated in, it’s crazy ! Have fun in your matches
I really wish there was a ranked MMR system in this game, like in dota. Ranked and Unranked. People who want MMR play ranked, people who don't play unranked, it's win-win. But this game is stagnating rn without MMR. The thing I found for myself is I use nightlight that records my games, so I can see my loses and wins, killrate is equal to winrate too, it's what makes DBD matches matter for me, I feel like every match matters.
I find it funny how 8 years have nearly passed since the release of dbd, and yet we as a community are never satisfied by this game, but i love how we try to come up ways to make it fun for everyone whether you’re competitive or not..DBD is so interesting and i wonder how much the game will continue improving
If pip and rank has nothing to do with MMR, then who cares if the de-pip is gone. Everyone has a different idea of how the game should play and no one is agreeing on anything. I'm more upset about the Blight changes because I just started getting comfortable with hug techs. Who cares about the pip stuff.
Because they always said "Its just a matter of how much you play the game" but that wasn't' really true when you could be immediately tunneled out, or maybe the Killer DCs early in the match, so many reasons why you don't get enough "points" to even safety pip are beyond your control. So it really became for many of us a constant case of "You did well enough and helped your team, but screw you, you're getting punished anyway." I've even had cases where we finished all 5 generators and got out, and I still depipped because we never healed or got into a chase or anything because the killer was AFK the entire match. Even more so for those killers that just want to have fun playing the game, but no they need to sweat for the 4K because they need those +2 pips to make up for the times they run up against the 4-main SWF bully squads. So the removal of depips will take away a lot of the stress of it, allow players to earn that extra 2,000,000 at their own pace, and I think overall make the game better in the long run. Those who only care about winning will still play the same way, but those of us who care about bloodpoints and fun over actually winning (I like to think we are the majority) will be finally able to enjoy the game!
I mean a big reason I can see for the Infantilization of DBD is whenever a perk is unballanced, someone plays the game a different way or just something is considered not fair, So many killers and survivors stamp their feet, whine and complain like children and I can imagine this is what BHVR sees. I am in a DBD Facebook group and almost every post is someone complaining about something, not in a respectable way, it often comes across like a agnst teen telling their parents "It's not fair". Just my thoughts.
The issue is that de-pipping isn’t just about dying. At times, I can perform well, escape, but Im at the mercy of the Emblem system as to rather I de-pip or gain a pip, since aspects of the Emblem system are tied to the team and not my individual performance.
It's funny you post this, me and my family were just talking about the amount of farming killers we come across and that it's getting old. I stopped playing the game for awhile a couple of months ago and came back after the initial matchmaking change and never bothered to look into it. These changes are pretty weird.
Dude reasoning is so wrong man, people don't play for be toxic, they play for the adrenaline and the sensation of a derivate victim and killer sensation, the mmr ranking and bullshit is just a number that is used for keep the matches whit the hope of winning or loosing, is valid to feel emotion by the number you have but the mmr is just a tool from the game, not his purpose
If MMR wasn't a thing I would care about winning more. with a rank based game matchmaking with supposedly 'equal skilled' people. I feel if I lose more I will get less stressed games. But I would still try to win and not just throw the match as either team. Right now if I have a window in a trial to find hatch with 3 escaped survivors, I will find it cus its both a win and apparently counts a draw for me as survivor. I would do this even if it may caused my death on a hook as either way right now is benefit to me unless a challenge is present. And right now as Killer, I will Almost constantly give survivors extra chances, purposely ignore them and act like I did not see them, run into stuns, whatever it takes to extend the game for a loss but without trying to throw the match by not playing it unless there is a challenge present.
I agree with the statement that they are too concerned about the feelings of players, Recently I was insulted as a killer because they did not crank out a single gen. And I was playing Wraith. In my opinion, when you get shit on by the opposing side and you didn't hack or abuse the game mechanics it's actually a compliment because you did so well that they started crying.
I dont really like this take... Original DBD fostered a very toxic and competitive environment. Because they take forever to change things DBD is slowly turning into that "party game" they've mentioned wanting it to become. You can only punish a player so much before they'll say the game feels stale and boring when they aren't actually achieving anything. You can make a game fun and entertaining without the toxic behavior and repetitive punishments. I believe a better focus on bloodpoints is enough for being rewarded and punished than having some arbitrary system tell you you're bad.
NGL, I really hated the de-pipping; a couple too often I was at 4 pips, stomped my game, but then a survivor would do something cute and I gave them hatch, thus not pipping up because I missed out on sacrifice points AND the next three games paired me up against seal team 6s and I lost all progress. That felt AWEFUL and over time it tought me to park my funny gamer self and conscience at the door and just play as sweaty as possible till I got to Iri 1... only then I could relax and play like myself and do cute things with cute survivors. I talked a lot about this on the forums and some guy had a pretty good idea about adding more pips, but making de-pipping impossible, so that 250 or so good matches per month carried you to Iri 1, but you only de-pipped when you DCed. Just taking de-pipping away will mean that there is only one way, ie up to go with your ranks, so if they do nothing to increase the ranks, most players should hit Iri 1 on their prefered roll within the first week of every new season. I think 200-250 pips needed for Iri 1 would be a good compromise to what we got now, but over all, believe it or not, I think that the de-pipping mechanic was a big contributor to how sweaty the game has become. In the end it was just 1 million blood points, but no one likes to have their progress taken away, so people sweat when at 3+ pips.
I dont really see how losing pips is infantilization of the game. High mmr people don't care about pips and for the most part dont need/care about bloodpoints. All this tells me as a survivor I should get ready for some changes thats just going to make killer stronger. Which is the real problem - The obsession with buffing killers and making killer powers counter everything puts the majority of people who play survivor into a shitty mindset. The real buff to this game would be to nerf most killers, remove nurse and remove the ability to play teams. I dont care about the 10% of dbd players that need to go into every match with there butt buddies. The infantilization of this game came when dbd had to baby killers because 4 mans exist. Remove 4 mans.
tbh I think they're just getting rid of a dead mechanic from a different time in DbD. Back in the emblem/bp systems, pipping=winning. Black pip=tie and De-pip=loss. But now pips don't mean anything and rank doesn't mean anything so it doesn't make sense to keep it.
Alternative Title: CoconutRTS saying that telling killer/survivor to off himself, bleeding out last person out of spite, rage commenting on steam and that person to person toxicity/frustration is the gameplay for 17 minutes
Possibly in a ranked setting this drive to get rewarded for winning and punishment for losing would apply but operant conditioning has shown time and time again that rewards always incentives more than punishments. You want your dog to sit, you’ll have far more effective results giving them treats for every success than taking away toys or hurting the dog for each failure. Rewarding players for doing well is enough to incentives them to play well. Punishing them, especially when they’re trying their best only distances them from wanting to try any further.
I think we've gone too far where everything is considered toxic nowadays, but at the same time, if you're like that guy who said he doesn't have fun unless he's bullying people you should probably just be playing something else.
So what I think one of the commenters meant by saying it splits the casual & sweaty players is: I'm currently going through levelling every character in DBD, so the Rank BPS matters to me a lot. What this has caused, is for me to start playing sweatier. I run all meta builds, bring map offerings, and play simply to increase pips, that way I can get the BPS I need to progress. Removing the De-pip function makes it to where I can play casually and eventually obtain Iri 1's since I naturally do well even when not sweating. The issue with De-Pips is it makes the progression much less fun, and yes, while removing de-pip does create a scenario where you now feel less accomplished for progressing, for those who were wanting to progress simply for the rewards of progression, it feels so good. I understand to players who don't care about BPS since they have every character Prestige 9 doesn't matter, but to the average player, this is such an amazing QOL change, and I am really happy BHVR is going through with it. Just the other week, I was playing with a friend trying to get Iri 1 on Survivor, and I got all the way to Iri 3. Only to get tunneled, and tunnleled, and tunnleled. My friend tried to help me, but I was ALWAYS the one to die in the match, getting camped & tunneled on hooks. In that scenario, what does the player do? How is the progression punishment fair when a player's performance isn't tied to their skill, but to the generocity of the opposing side?
TL;DR - Good games are those that make players feel like they have agency and that their actions matter. Elements that take away agency harm player experience and disincentivize the drive to play. I guess I personally already stopped caring about losing because winning also meant nothing. So de-pipping from dying as survivor or a bad game as killer stopped being important to me. And honestly once I stopped caring about it, I stopped playing dbd at all for like 6 months after 2000 hours. I've gotten back into it, but I still can't take it seriously at all... its honestly very freeing. The most important thing for me in any game is the sense of player agency, like the video you showed talked about. Feeling like you can affect the world around you and that your choices matter. When it feels like what you do doesn't matter, you stop caring about being successful or not. And then you stop playing it at all. What's at least better is that people still get mad about problems in DbD. When people stop giving a shit that things are bad, you know the game is truly dead. So the final point about ambition and player agency is that good perks or killers or maps or items are such because of how they affect the game based on your actions. What feels terrible is when one of those things negatively effects you and there was literally nothing you could do about it all. You were just screwed from the start. That's why I stopped playing when wesker was released; I got sick of getting grabbed from around corners. And I also stopped for a while when MFT was at its height because it just made it feel like nothing I did as killer mattered at all.
14:04 here’s the thing, if you suck balls 5 games in a row, you’re still not gonna get ANY pips 5 games in a row, which would still hurt. It’s not that there is NO more effects for doing bad, it’s just less of an effect. And not to mention, as it was said at the start, with the fact that the rank system doesn’t effect MMR anymore, there’s no reason to really even care about losing pips. I think they should have just made a change that actually mattered to the game currently, instead of focusing on something that didn’t matter as much, like Hag’s map for one example.
Working 10hr shifts I only have time to play dbd for at least 3 hrs this allows me to get some good games in just to catch up on leveling up my characters wether I level up to have more addons for killers or certain items for survivor gather up as much bloodpoints as I can and those being the grades so at rank reset I’m rewarded for my hard work no more depip means I don’t have to spend so much precious time on trying to gain those back when all the matches have been a rollercoaster of gaining and losing pips recently there has been a lot of server crashes and making us lose our items and pips so overall it’s a great change.
This is a weird take. Dbd is a game. It is not a competition. Yes, it has its competitive scene, but most players are casuals. Some work or study and they come home late to have a game or two. And when these games have shitty ping pr servers dying or tunneling and camping in solo queue. Or for killer an swf who leaves you no chance for a casual play - you get really demotivated. When you lose a pip after an already bad game, you just don't want to go on sometimes. My point is - I want to play a game for fun. Try new funny little builds, try having a chase. Not to sweat every match just to not have the game tell me I did bad. Did you know that in "My little Oni" you could de-pip even if you escaped or killed everyone? Yeah, I just thing that the pipping system got a little redundant with the direction the ge is going
if you wanna play casually it's simple: just dont care about your rank. They should at least give people who DO CARE about their rank a chance by displaying it. If that stresses you out, that's your fault. Like you said, it's just a game. If you wanna take it casually, rank/depip should not bother you.
Idk if this is relevant but I’ve been playing since 2017, before we had any of the safety measures like the unhook timer or the anti face camp mechanics, and it was brutal but that’s what motivated me to become a decent survivor player. Also teabagging, head shaking or hitting on hook has always and will always be funny to me.
The dev's actions kinda explain why they haven't added voice coms for survivors. When I first started to discover dbd I always question why there weren't survivor coms.
i feel like this is not what it is at all, you're kinda mixing up bm with toxicity, bm isnt really harmful to the community and can be valuable friendly competition, they will never remove stuff like hitting on hook, tbagging or humping, you will always be able to have the friendly competition, it just comes off to me that they're appealing more towards the wider casual audience, that doesnt care so much about how they're performing through the ranking system, and more just about individual matches and personal victories, trying not to lump them in with the ultra comp sweats who think anyone with a lower number is a lesser human despite having them in the same queue i just dont think you need to see those numbers to have fun, you know how well the match went, its just a metric for people to go "my number is bigger than yours so you're trash"
This is similar to why I hate devs nerfing something instead of buffing the counters/alternatives. You just take the fun until there's nothing left instead of empowering other things
Exactly this. All they need to do is put in a ranked mode. Bam, problem solved everyone wins. Softies can stick to casual if they want and the rest of us can play normally, not have idiots prioritizing challenges when we're trying to win, way less throwers, and actually get paired up with people who are a comparable skill level. Take leaver penalties off casual and put them on ranked. I don't know how following other tried and tested game models that pretty much every remotely comparable game has been doing for years..is so complicated for them to figure out.
Tbh I only play dbd once a month for a few days when the reset happens because thats when the game is fun... Less surv giving up and less killers tunneling/slugging at 5 gens. I really like the game and I like playing the game and having fun, I dont enjoy like being hardcore sweaty and trying to make the killers or surv suffer
@@aroace7913 I understand fully when he says that toxicity is a part of the game. But toxicity only comes in play with depipping when you intentionally take someone out of the game trying to get them to depip, which is is a shitty, boring thing to do.
At this point it makes more sense to think of your grade as a battle pass than a rank, meant to be an indicator of how much you play and not an indicator of skill. It's clear that was their intention ever since they stopped using it for matchmaking and moved to MMR. Now it's still a baffling dcecision, because emblems are a way better indicator of skill than MMR is, but that's for another day I guess. Overall though I really don't think is coddling to the sensitive players. This is not just about having one bad game and not being punished for it. There are TONS of ways to lose that are not in your control, and it is extra shitty to be knocked down because of matchmaking giving you an AFK teammate or getting tunneled out twice in a row. If anything this will bring more people back to the game (myself included) because people won't feel like they're being punished for what is essentially RNG. No matter how bad a game goes for you, the time you invest into your grade will always be there. There is nothing more disheartening than spending the one hour you get to play DBD a day getting 4 bad matches in a row, and wasting your only free time.
I would make the argument that it's needed mostly for solo players, killer or survivor, both having sometimes the misfortune of encountering something they simply have extremely low to nothing chance of winning against: A solo queue survivor having to deal with little communication with other survivors (can cause snowballing scenarios with impossible recovery) and the killer having a build that only a good swf can counter or is very good at the game (matchmaking just not existing sometimes) The killer side having to deal with a swf on comms with specific builds that can lead to no kills if killer played extremely bad (even with some high tier killers) or being extremely unlucky with stuff like map dependancy and hook spawns (just getting screwed by RNG which is very frustrating). Ranks as of now are more of a "reward for monthly dedication" rather than actual skill, it helps new players that have very few prestiges get a monthly reward just by playing till a match it goes right and pip up, it might affect a few learning curves but i think it's fine, hell we have Devotion and that doesn't give any rewards other than a loop of high/low amount of iri shards and that's just cosmetics, bloodpoints for new players is required for them to wanna stick around and get out of the hole that is playing with very few perks at the start.
It's funny that, lore wise, that's why the survivors have their memory wiped after trials, so they don't go ''it changes nothing if i die or survive; I'm always back to the same campfire''.
That makes me wonder if the entity keeps past teammates away from those who've died then or else they'll just explain what happened to them.
In lore wise, the entity realm is like his own purgatory that works like the backrooms that there's a special way to get in but there's no escape from it
My guess is they're removing depips because it disproportionately effects survivor players. My experience as a killer player is that even at Iri 1, you can end a match with like 4 hooks and 0 kills, but still not lose a pip as long as you spend enough time in chase and get some regression and injuries. I know for a fact though that probably about 15%-25% of survivors will depip, and especially with how prevalent tunneling is, if you get tunneled as survivor you are depipping every time. A lot of the time (definitely not all of the time though) dying at 3 or 4 gens as survivor isn't a result of you playing poorly, but a result of the killers playstyle, and they wanted that to be less punishing.
thats exactly what im thinking. why should people be punished for the unfun way somebody else plays the game
@@cc-corruptor4492 its not like there aren't things to help with/prevent the playstyle from being effective, in fact most balance changes as of late have been to combat that, depending on the killer it can be difficult but not impossible if you depip its usually cause you did play bad and i think thats a pretty good way go reflect that you and/or your team couldve done a lot better (though in solo q the team thing can get frustrating)
@@streagzach3148The main issue with that is that you have to run entire builds dedicated to countering specific play styles where you fight against meta incase you go against a meta build killer, instead of simply being able to just play the game in a way that you find fun. It isn't really a reasonable expectation to have to dedicate perk slots for counterplay, on the off-chance that someone is running a play style that is *so* powerful that you need to make a build around it
I think Coco might have a better point if survivior scoring actually reflected how important/good you were in a match. There's been plenty of matches where I depip/safety because I did gens the whole match while killer tried to tunnel 1 person and failed. I can't control how a killer plays, the game doesn't properly adjust to certain situations so I'm okay with depipping being removed. The punishment for losing is still time wasted (not gaining a pip) and since getting to iridescent 1 only means how much you play the game and you get rewarded with BPs, then I'm fine with this change. I do agree with the multiple points listed in this video about chat filter, removing fun stuff, humiliation, etc.
@@thefear420 It's weird; I feel like the chat filter and all the other stuff is totally unrelated to the depipping. it feels like he completely missed the point of why depipping was being added and the reason for it definitely was not "Losing feels bad"
"You want surviving to feel good" perfectly timed as a killer feeds you an escape with hatch 😂
since they started hiding your rank behind having to click the tp right of screen i 99% of time dont even care about looking at rank anymore. End of day its just for BPS means nothing more than just for bps and the change will only make it so if you get into matches where killers tunnel you or slug everyone you dont depip for situations out of your control. Good change imo but far from whats needed to fix state of game currently.
I dont think its about holding hands or babyfication of mechanics.
Its same in reverse for when killers go against a mega sweaty swf with no control over match.
At end of day its bloodpoints and has 0 baring on your skill in game.
I agree, I don't think removing depips requires a psychoanalyzation of the playerbase, however much they may need it
the rank hasn't meant anything for two and half years now and is now even more hidden than before, just makes it easier to get more bloodpoints on the 13th every month, idk why people would not be happy with that
@@frb5237 I don't think you understood the purpose of the video. What he was saying was that they have kept removing things that make the other side feel bad such as mori spamming and flashlight clicking. What's next are they gonna remove the ability to crouch up and down quickly to get rid of tbagging. That was the point of the video.
@@Delicousjam933 I said the point of the video was aimlessly psychoanalyzing the player base. You say I missed the point, and that the point of the video is aimlessly psychoanalyzing the player base. ???
I understood the point of the video perfectly, I just disagree. I don't think that this is indicative of coddling players. Grades exist solely to make an old feature that is otherwise obsolete and BHVR didn't want to ditch entirely do something. It's just bloodpoints. Removing depips isn't comparable to removing tbagging, it's comparable to reducing the bloodweb grind, because that is what it is actually doing. Depipping serves no purpose now, so I view it as further modernizing the feature. But people will find a way to complain about a change that literally every single player stands the benefit from.
@@frb5237 I'm not complaining I just think that it is lame that rank doesn't mean anything anymore and pips don't mean anything anymore. That is the point of the video because people don't like losing so much eventually they'll just take out everything that punishes you for losing and rewards you for winning. What I think would be a much better change would be to make the pips and bp be a team thing, because I watched a hens333 video and through data mining people figured out that only what you do improves your score. Instead of removing the ability to depip they should've made it so that if you are doing something for your team you all get points and vice versa but, if you're not the one on a gen for example, you don't get as many points but it still helps to mitigate the loss if you're getting tunneled. That would make it much easier to get pips while still keeping the punishment if you do bad, but that's just my opinion. If you disagree I'd like to know why because I feel that's a better and fairer change to the game.
@@Delicousjam933 It's because they don't want to completely remove or rework the emblem system which is now obsolete for determining how well you played. The Hens video is about MMR and emblems are not MMR. Grades and pips haven't "meant anything" since Sept 2021, the realization that the emblem system doesn't need a punishment at all is actually just two and a half years late. They already went half way with removing your grade decreasing which came with MMR since the beginning.
The implication that BHVR is removing the punishment for losing for the sole purpose of coddling the player base is where you/Coconut are incorrect. They're doing it because depips legitimately have no reason to exist anymore and all this change does is make it easier to get more bloodpoints, which no one should be upset over. But alas.
This really feels like an ivory tower perspective. Maybe de-pipping adds fun tension to the game when you already have everything unlocked, but for most of us who are still in the unlock grind, the extra BP from ranking up is really nice.
And if you need an artificial rank increase to care about whether you win or lose the game, then you aren't really playing to enjoy the game, are you?
exactly, i have everything unlocked and i KNOW how much grind it was to get, it is my most joy to gain 2 million BP everytime on the 13th and its the most annoying shit to de-pips even sometimes when its not even my fault but shitty teammates or cheaters.. I agree with most things coco says but here he doesnt know what the hell he is talking about.
A lot of people enjoy ranking up in games because it’s exciting and gives them a sense of progression and satisfaction. I am in the unlocking phase so I know what you mean about blood points, but they should just add a permanent multiplier to the amount of blood points per match instead of removing the ranks
@@Classicv5no, de-pipping because you happen to be paired with a wannabe bully trio is the worst thing ever, im glad de-pip and de-rank are gone, they shouldve been removed way sooner.
@@liandre9035 So you don’t want a pip system because it bothers you when you lose a pip? I gotta agree with the guy in the video that it’s kind of an infantile response to have.
@@Classicv5yeah how infantile to not want something that i dislike, as its pretty uncommon for people to not want things they hate.... sure.
With the depip system, if players who got into Iri ranks or anything for that rotation, they suddenly feel as if they aren't allowed to play games for fun or mess around because they will be robbed of bloodpoints for trying to have fun.
then you could still make it a climb to reach iri but hitting the top removes depipping completely. I think it would be both. A fun experience in the climb but then you can do whatever you wanna "at the top"
@@ichweissnicht6888 That's already how it has been for years. You haven't been able to drop a grade from depipping since the grade system was implemented.
@@SubxZeroGamer true you made me remember. wait then there is no issue to begin with
@@ichweissnicht6888 they are removing the "getting to the top" part so now you can goof around in the middle of ranking up and it wont impact the progress you had towards the next pip. it's a minor thing though. tbh they should just move to an xp system similar to devotion so people aren't confused about the grades. i've seen returning players and new players alike that think that the grades are their mmr. that way you always are making progress towards it regardless of how the game went.
@@MrNigel117 I agree. how would that work tho? like every lvl 10 k BP per lvl resetting on the 13th? I am somewhat sure they wanna keep that monthly model
Am I a psycho for rarely getting angry at dbd, having nearly 3k hours on pc alone and enjoying most of my life and childhood playing it?
do you play killer? i don’t get upset when i’m survivor, no matter the outcome or tunnelling or whatever, but killer is cruel
Dude I have 5k and I just have a blast lol having a good time dying every game I just play for the progress of leveling up my characters
@@joshhampton7235I play killer, I feel like sweating and wanting to win every game makes u angry. Sweating is a mindset. I still run pop pain res don’t get me wrong. But I be chillin. Whatever happens happens😊
@@joshhampton7235 I've mained killer (pyramid head) ever since his release and even before that I was a killer main, I also despise playing survivor as I think it is one of the most repetitive gaming experiences out there.
I'm same you're not a psycho you're just mature
Okay but your looking at it from a perspective of you as a content creator or like someone who plays the game almost competitively, now think about it from the perspective of like my mother or someone who comes home from like a 11 hour shift, the removal of depip gives players that dont have the time to GRIND ranks the time to finally hit iri 1 and feel proud, sure you could tell them that the depip got removed but its not infantizing the rank system its simply a new way for older and way younger players to feel better about reaching the goals they struggled with before thus encouraging them to try to do it again next 13th of the month giving them this new feeling of them being good at a game and being rewarded for spending thier little time to themselves in thier busy schedule to play the game and enjoy it, your too focused on the fact that "it will ruin the gain" maybe shift your focus of rank being stale shift it to new and cool feature
And on top of that i would like to mention, you quoted gaben (all hail) and proceeded to quote him on the development of a SINGLE player game, if you apply that same mind set to a multiplayer game then you proceed to set this precident that you have to use the most broken builds so you can escape, And you do see that! The depip and the mmr status and the constant want to grind has left swf' to run the same 4 perks that all play with eachother perfectly, theres no room for imagination and then leads the killer to use the most optimal perks for that killer, the mindset of "rewarding and punishment" of winning and losing leads people to run the same thing everytime leaving no imagination or learning new perks. We get new perks with every killer and survivor but look, we still all see adrenaline, dead hard, boil over, decisive and things like that, why? Because its fun? No because its the most optimal, people have to make it a "challenge" to use a new perk setup, a "challenge" to have fun and they run the risk of running into the sweatiest people alive while just trying to have fun
Why would you feel proud and accomplished for receiving the digital equivalent of a participation trophy? If you can get to the top rank while losing 90% of your matches then it seems pointless from that perspective
the problem is that bhvr starts kinda neglecting veteran players and im not talking about this video but just overall. And majority of dbd playerbase are people who take this game very seriously
Why would you be proud of something you didn't need to put effort in to achieve??
pipping as a survivor has always been needlessly difficult . survivors shouldn't depip if the killer goes afk or if the team plays way too efficiently to the point that survivors don't have a chance to heal/unhook each other , have a chance to do gens, or be chased.
Yes, this is the most frustrating... you are TOO GOOD AT THE GAME, YOU GET PUNISHED. How does that make sense?
Even the most popular dbd youtubers have said that the pressure of having to “win” every match had become very stressful. I think this helps to remove some of that pressure.
This is a common feeling in most multiplayer based games. Wanting to win is natural for people. No one wants to lose. But you also don't see a lot of these games catering to the baby players. 2 choices - get better or stay where you are and eventually quit.
That's more to do with their perceived skill level rather than depiping though, ever since ranks were separated from MMR I've not heard someone use ranks as a way of judging if someone is good.
@@CaptToilet"get better" and sell your soul, that's why I loved soul-like more, I could play however TF I want and ACTUALLY get better.
@@CaptToilet There's difference between "get better" and sweat your ass in 4 man swf or as nurse with 4 slowdowns. Dbd is casual game, it's not cybersport and never will be, just because it's almost impossible to balance. I don't talk about comp dbd because they have rules and team swaps, it's not "killer team vs survivor team"
@@systembeard6959 It doesn't have to be a casual game. That's the point. And people who want to play that way shouldn't be stopped from doing so because the community also has babies in it. Make a ranked mode, simple way for everyone to win. Ranking up is absolutely a competitive thing for many people, it was also one of the most popular challenges on YT. Hardcore survivor. This change would completely ruin that. So just because you personally don't see it as competitive, your view is not everyone else's, and never will be. I have no problem with you wanting to be in a safe casual bubble. But I'm not interested in playing that way, that's not remotely satisfying whatsoever to me. And your way of living shouldn't impact mine. We should be able to have separate modes so we don't have to be around each other. Everyone wins.
Strange takes imo. To the first point thta's actually about de-pipping:
What is the punishment for losing a soccer game against your friends? Or losing a game of Mortal Kombat? Or dying in a single player game and having to start from the last checkpoint? The fact that you lost, that you were defeated, that you weren't up to the challenge IS the punishment. It feels good to win and it feels bad to lose. That's it. Of course there are nuounces like it doesn't feel good to win if you're playing against someone who is obviously so much worse than you that you don't have a challenge, but in general, winning and losing in themselves are reward and punishment.
And whilst I agree that toxicity was and still is one of the most fun parts of the game (my friends and I used to say the post game chat is more fun than the match), it can also be super annoying. Like mori spamming wasn't bad because it was bm, it actually just took time away from a player's life. That's why t-bagging and hitting on hook haven't been removed. It's fine to rub your victory into you opponent's nose, that's fun for the one doing it and can be an incentive for the receiving player to become better, but shouting slurs at someone in the post game chat or just wasting everyone's time is something different imo.
The reason for removing de-pipping is that when you get towards Iri rank it basically becomes a gamble as to whether the players will cooperate with you advancing or not. When you de-pip because your teammates refused to get you off the hook, or because you ran into a SWF, it doesn't feel like you've lost because you played poorly and deserved it. It feels instead like you were robbed.
At least as surv even if you manage to loop the killer for 5 gens but die in the end you sure will lose a pip in gold or at least in iri also all other survs will maybe get a black pip or lose one aswell because ther only did gens i just have the luck to not care about it at all. If the killer is afk and dont dc its the same you will for sure lose a pip because you dont have the chance to get one out of good playing and that can suck for many players
And lets not foget that the "ranks" dont have any effect on your games ther only for bp so i like the change even if i dont care about it
I also think they added de-pip because of the tunnelling too, ive seen many players go berserk just because they lost a pip because they got hard tunnelled out of the game.
Why are people on Twitter acting like the grade/"de-pip'ing" affects your Rank or MMR? Since it's introduction sometime ago, it was always strictly for Bloodpoints. I mean, I STILL see Survivors going into games without items or offerings, so I don't think the extra guaranteed Bloodpoints will change much.
They might not know any better. Still to this day I hear people saying things like “I’m in a lobby with 3 P100 teammates. Why does the game think I’m that good?”
to this day ppl refuse to educate themselves. that simple.
A lot of people, including me, stopped bringing items because the killer will either ignore you or tunnel you for using what the game gave us.
@@ghostflame9211I mean being able to even see that is a more recent thing. I personally have 0 clue how people can have prestige that high, I don’t even have all the teachables. P100 is like what, 85 million blood points or something? You could P3 every other character with that many points, how can someone have enough points for to just waste like that?
@@fatcat2015 It varies on how often people play and if they spend their Iri Shards on Bloodpoints as well. I saw my first P100 within a month of the system, but it's regular for me to see a P100 atleast once a night. But yeah, like how the person you commented to said, being P100 doesn't necessarily correlate to Skill.
"to not have enough faith that our community can take a little negativity to the point where we treat them like infants" when I play chill every like 3rd game I get hit with "ezzz, bot" and when I play aggressively, tunnel, camp, etc to secure the win I get told to off myself. I played previous games with quite toxic communities, like rainbow six siege, cs, etc but I never met more weird fucks that go onto your steam profile just to write "- rep dogshit tunneller" or some other toxic stuff. Even though I had a lot of wholesome moments in this game, I'd even say way more than in other games, I've also had an astonishing amount of hate for just trying to win and that is sucking the fun out of the game for me. I heavily disagree with the notion that dbd is pandering to players that can't take "a little negativity", bc there's FUCK TON of toxicity in the game as it is
Ask for a ranked mode. Then there's no reason for people to be mad over casual.
@@kltil5082a ranked mode wouldn't do absolutely nothing about toxicity
u dont need to tunnel or camp to win therefore u are a dogshit killer like most other killers that resort to the cheapest way to win i never tunnel or camp and still do really well in most my matches sometimes i get done bad but thats bc they are simply better something more killers need to admit there are people better then them
@@kltil5082 I got tbagged for whole end game collapse timer in my little oni mode. MODE FOR FUN. No ranked/casual mode will change the toxicity
@@foulrotit would let those who care about being serious in this game go against others who are serious in this game and dont want the game to become more chill. Its the whole point of why pvp games have a ranked/casual mode where one is for fun while goofing around and the other mode for those who usually get infuriated when someone is goofing around and not in "ptfo" mode(play the fricking objective). Gamers are either having fun by goofing around in a game or by being serious and enjoy competing with one another. Sports like football irl wouldnt exist if people didnt enjoy competing against other humans to see who is better at something and working on improving to become the best and beat others. Its a thin line between being serious and being a dipshit, which we cant fully avoid crossing both in games and irl, but we shouldnt patronizr either side on how they have fun or mitigate their enjoyment for the sake of someone else's feelings. Either separate and make people play with likeminded individuals or let the community settle it amongst themselves without coddling them like a helicopter parent with bubblewrap blankets.
Something to consider is that pips and bp are not an accurate representation of player performance. For example, it's impossible to get iri in one of the survivor categories if you're hooked once (which incentivizes avoiding killer interaction) when it's often a REALLY GOOD IDEA to trade hook states or take protection hits; another example is that taking the killer on a single 5 gen chase will result in less pips/bp compared to a survivor who wins a few short chases despite the former player providing game winning value by distracting the killer for minutes on end and the latter player often making killer aggro the rest of the team's problem. Pips and bp also provide a really unintuitive incentive structure for killers where it really doesn't like you using the Exposed status effect because that results in less chases overall despite spending less time in chases actually being the goal when playing killer.
Even though this change is pushing the system towards being MORE meaningless and arbitrary, that doesn't change the fact that it was already meaningless and arbitrary.
Punishment for losing in a casual game just descentivizes experimentation. Why bring a meme build or play casually if youre gonna get punished and lose your pips for it? And thats not even considering all the other factors, like losses being largely outside of your direct control on soloq survivor, etc.
If you feel there should be punishment for losing outside of simply the loss, then you must believe this game is more competitive focused than casual focused, something the devs clearly disagree with you on. This game isn't popular because of the toxicity or the competitive scene, BHVR clearly understands that. Nobody is playing this game because they liked that teenagers could call them slurs in end game chat and BM them lol, or at least most people aren't.
I don't think BHVR is infantilizing the game, they're trying to make it less frustrating for the majority of their playerbase and reduce the toxicity where reasonable. I'd much rather they do that, stop people from putting slurs in text chat, stop people from BM'ing others, stop making losses more frustrating then they need to, and focus on making the experience better.
Also just because I got that part, the game is stale because the gameplay loop hasn't changed in 7 years and everyone brings the same perks on the same killers/survivors over and over because BHVR doesn't do enough to shake things up. It's not because BHVR is somehow stripping the stakes or emotion from the game from trying to prevent toxicity.
there are more serious gamers in this game than people think. Some people do not find enjoyment by acting casual and find fun in competing with others and also performing perfect teamwork. The game clearly needs a way to separate people who want to goof around without taking things seriously and those that treat it as an e-sport cause if the majority of players were casuals indeed as you say, toxicity would be extremely low and almost nobody would get salty for losing.
TLDR
@@Devilforce988 exactly, a lot of people like to say this game is a party game and isn't competitive, those same people will bring strong perks, strong addons, take the killer to bad killer maps (springwood, erie, garden of joy) go down in a corner of the map, med kit with syringe and charges. killers will play nurse, blight, spirit. people can say all they want this game is not competitive, but it really is. anything the survivors or killers do to give them an advantage is competitive game play. people don't want to hear it.
Most people feel that ESCAPING is winning. The ranking system is just there to tell individual players you did good. The ranking system lets me, as a survivor feel like I did good for my team even though there is a average 60% chance as a solo survivor that I will die every match.
For me the "win hierarchy" is
1. I played super well and did my best and had fun
2. 3-4 escape/kills
3. 2 escape/kills is a draw
The way to play this game is not to look at the OVERALL win, it's to look at individual wins like "Man I looped really well here"
@@Amyaddisoniscool nah dude, that backwards thinking is what makes this game so toxic and miserable. you think a killer with 9 hooks 1 kill lost but a killer who tunnels and proxys 1 out at 5 gens and barely manages to get a 2nd kill in end game is better because they "draw" instead of "lost"? yall out of your damned minds i swear XD
@@tiy_baptism Well survivors for sure didn't win that match imo
@@tiy_baptism On the contrary tbh.
I'm not calling you toxic, I'm just using your response as am example.
From my expierence in the community, what makes us toxic is the inherent need to seem superior or to hold the correct opinion on a subject instead of just letting other players play, think and enjoy the game how they want. Their opinion is correct because it's how they enjoy the game. Just like how your opinion is correct because that is how you enjoy the game.
A lot of the DBD community feels the need to just interject and prove the other person wrong due to the opinion that they hold. They will often result to using extremism and use drastic examples to try and "win" the "argument" that they started by telling someone their opinion is wrong.
It's happened to me countless times when I used to defend Made For This as a killer main. I used to say "It's seriously not that bad. If you struggle to learn when to drop chase and go for someone else then that is on you." Just stating my opinion and people would come in and just try to use any and every example they can to prove my personal expierence using/facing the perk as the "inferior" take. I'd get roasted for thinking a mid af perk was indeed mid af.
All in all, both you and the person you responded to are correct. You find the game fun when you view it from your perspective. They find it fun when they view it from their perspective.
There's no wrong in that.
@@nGEnigma i aint readin all that bud
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh I don't think removing depips is that deep, bro.
I don't think you understand what's going on here. The people who are whining about depipping are the ones making it deep. Coconut is merely responding. There was literally some AMA with a "DBD psychologist" talking about how depipping is so humiliating and acting like something needs to be done about it to preserve people's mental health. It's beyond dumb and coconuts is 100% right.
@@kltil5082its the other way around. People like coconut are whining about this change. How is removing depipping even babying the game? Its not like you got a pip for doing good In a game. You got a pip for doing objectives that dont require much skill like cleansing, doing gens and staying alive. If you did too well, you had the chance to depip, since you didnt do enough objectives. And lets not forget the RNG elements of this game. The random map chosen, the items and addons, the map layout and the killer choice can all affect the overall match.
@@ripadblock finally some reasonable comment.
Now good players will be able to enjoy their 2 mil bps every month
Behavior: makes a change to remove an unnecessary feature people actively dislike
The community: EXISTENTIAL CRISIS OMGGGG
If people choose to act like infants by being toxic in personal interactions and trying to make people feel bad about themselves why should BHVR treat them like anything else? It shouldn't be any player's "right" to be a dick and if taking away pip regression helps to fend off the toxic portion of the community by robbing them of satisfaction then good. People should be playing to get better themselves or to pull off good plays for themselves, not just to flip off the other side.
1. I believe de-pipping is because survivors got punished for being tunneled or being too good that you got punished for killer not getting enough hooks.
2. DBD was popular because it was described as a party game and slowly got transformed into competitive game which has turned into toxic community and people leaving the game because of it so if you remove the mindset of " ranks " it may relax the player base a little for people to come back
I agree with pretty much 90% of what you're saying.
The issue I *personally* see is that there is just a clear misunderstanding amongst a lot of the community. I have had to explain to my friends that the "grade" system means nothing and is an arbitrary grind for BP every month. These people have over 6k hours while I'm sitting at a measly 2.5k.
The issue is that DBD/Bhvr doesn't do a good job at explaining this. They make it such a seemingly prevalent thing that is always being showcased - yet they provide absolutely minimal explanation on how it works.
On top of that, the push to get Iri 1 every rotation wouldn't be so prevalent if they actually improved the base BP grind.
The most fun I have playing DBD is during Blood Hunts because I feel actual progress is being made.
If they just allowed us to get 100k BP for a good match, it would be amazing. It's still 10 matches of attempting to maximize BP per side, which would encourage more fair play.
Add in actual BP reduction actions for aspects of gameplay that aren't "favorable" and all will be fine.
Survivors are going to throw matches a lot more now ?
@@TheMurderMadness which would also imply that survivors remaining in game will not be punished either for survivors throwing games
This is honestly the worst take I’ve heard you say. The removal of depipping is the best decision they’ve made this patch. DBD is a casual game, there SHOULDN’T be a “punishment” for losing because losing is INEVITABLE. All the removal of depipping does is allow me to not need to sweat every single game in order to feel a sense of progress. I can experiment with builds, I can give the last survivor hatch without fear the game will say I “lost” by taking my pips. The only reason I don’t play more wholesome is because of depipping. Killers like billy, bubba, Sadako are especially hard to pip with just by the nature of their powers and how the emblem system works. With depipping you could be heavily punished for just playing a killer the emblem system doesn’t favor. Don’t even get me STARTED on survivor. If you lose a pip as survivor all it means is you got tunneled, something completely out of your control. On top of that, at high grade you’re effectively competing with teammates because there sometimes are just not enough things in the match to do to pip. An Iridescent Unbroken emblem is effectively impossible to get because when the hell are you ever going to escape without ever getting downed? The only time I feel I can truly have fun in DBD is when I just grade up and have no pips to lose. I have days where I want to play dbd but don’t feel confident that I won’t depip so I don’t play. To players who don’t care about popping it will not affect them at all, for players like me who love a sense of progression it makes the game infinitely more enjoyable and less stressful.
Nah, removing depips just encourages crappy survivors thinking they'll make it and every game will be a 4k because theyre "baby" survivors. Just get better at the game and if you can't.... Stop playing 🤷
I agree, idk where this whole "this game's for babies now I want healthy toxicity that's why the game's fun" argument is coming from. This change is literally just a safety net for progression so people can get bp easier and don't get punished for trying to do challenges. Your emblem and grade are pretty much just playtime up to Iri 3-1 anyway
Pips are a game of chance. You're against tombstone myers? You ARE depipping. He's not hooking anyone, not injuring anyone. You want that pip back? You need a 15+ minute slog of a game where you spam heals against legion instead of gen rushing. Survivors Gen rushed? Surivors AND Killers Depip! 4k at 5 gens remaining? You just undid your 15 minute slog! It even discourages playing soloq survivor, better wait for your friends to log in.
@@ghostmonkeycustoms3766nothing what you said makes any sense. I don't know if you're just really bad at english or you just don't know what you're talking about. Most people play this game casually and since there's no separate ranked and casual queue, there shouldn't be a punishment for losing when you're just trying to have fun. Especially since the pips don't affect your mmr.
@@imagoatiswear1938 all of that was perfect English
Ngl defending toxicity is kinda weird and the reason why it’s so common in gaming. People do mental gymnastics to defend it and rationalize it.
Depipping "removing" the punishment for losing is purely a thing because pipping/depippin is the only real indication of how well you did in a game. Your MMR still goes down if you lose but because you never see your MMR you don't think about it when you lose.
It is really annoying to lose progress towards ranking up because the game decided after a 3k vs 2 bots that I shold go against 3 swfs back to back to back.
Without depiping the punishment for losing is not making progress towards ranking up, rather than having previous progress lost due to things outside your control.
Pips don't tell you how you did in a game. They tell you how many arbitrary boxes you checked.
There's something extra punishing about dying/losing in DBD already. When I die in dbd it feels worse than other games. I haven't quite figured out why though.
I agree and don’t know either. Maybe it’s the horror (death/failure) aspect? Maybe it’s the intimate 4v1 setting with a human opponent (as opposed to 4-player co-op like L4D). Still can’t figure it out.
inherently, a game in which there is a winner or loser will lead to feelings of humiliation for the loser and feelings of domination for the winner. However, even when nothing is at stake (pips, mmr visibility), there is still the motivation to not become humiliated + to be dominant. I think BHVR is simply trying to remove the tangible consequences of losing. It is generally a good idea to make everyone feel as dominant as possible, but in a game like DBD, you simply have no control over that.
I've depiped at Killers that rage quit. I'm fine with the change.
Same here, he is making more of a fuss about it, when in reality for many of us playing casually and for fun it's a great boon along with the bots. One thing he is missing is there are barely any real consequences for rage quits on both sides, having at least the consequences lessened on those who don't is a step in the right direction.
Skill issue on your part. You should have made it easier for him to catch you so he’d stay engaged and not rage-quit. 🙄
Why does the emblem system incentivize a entire 12-hook, 5-gen match when that conflicts with every other aspect of this game? 😂
Honestly being unable to lose pips means I can finally meme a bit more as Deathslinger or the like, since normally I'd be way more inclined to use, you know, a killer that isn't trash and run 2-4 gen slowdown perks instead to keep up with things. With this change, I can go to Iri and not give nearly as much of a fuck at a garbage match against 4 Seal Team Six members that are doing stupid clock callouts and the like. You call it Infantilization, I call it making it more casual, which was what its intended roots were imo
Gabe there isn’t talking about a game like dbd where you are inherently punished for every poor decision you make when looping that causes hooks and kills. Everyone is doing something that is punishing to the collective
This man used Gabe for sacrilege, this is inexcusable 😂
Answering your question before watching the rest: my best guess is that the removal de-pipping is to allow players to gain more bp in general to keep up and catch up with the ever growing roster. an old player may be like "I don't need all this bp" but a new player is like "I need so much bp, it's going to be impossible for me to get all my characters prestieged to unlock their perks", so this addresses the latter while having no real bearing on the former.
Wow you mean you have to play the game, play with perks you wouldn't normally use to get familiar with the game when you're new, and learn from your mistakes in order to progress?
Yeah you're right, that's terrible. I can't believe so many games have been torturing their fanbases like that for so long.
I barely play as much as I used to and I'm constantly forced to spend BP because of the 2mil cap (which needs to be upped or made non existent). This event is so insanely easy to earn BP on it's not even funny. 5 matches with losses is basically enough to fully level up a character ffs. How much easier do you want this?
@@kltil5082one never knows. it's silly because once you get everyone prestieged you pretty much have no value for bp anymore, thus why I'm saying that it's probably something to boost new players than to reward older players. I honestly don't really pay attention to my ranking too much, myself, but that's because it already just goes up on its own. you can't de-rank even though you can de-pip, so it's just reducing the failure floor to a neutral point.
As someone who couldn’t care less about pipping, I think this change can help new players who haven’t ranked up characters far. With how many characters there are now on both sides, and with all the items, offerings, etc, it can take a while for new players to level up bloodwebs. This can help them level faster, and while it’s not much everything helps
This is just my first glance opinion, so take it with a grain of salt
We all got drawn into the game when we first found it, feeling the hope and achievement of the progress we made. But slowly, the more we played the life of the game got sucked out change by change until finally, we lost that sense of hope and fun. The progress of the game truly reflects its own story to a T
I don't particularly have an opinion on the "no depip". However the thing I would say is that what happens quite often with me is: Im tilted, because of that I go down really quick, and I am considering just dying on hook and go take a break. The thing that often stops me is the though "I didn't really do much for any category, might depip, so let me get off hook and have some more chases/gens/heals before I die". Now there won't even be that. In my eyes, the consequence is that more people will be more willing to just give up hard games, rather than "waste time" trying to escape, pulling their (more hopeful and optimistic) teammates down the same grave.
That’s a good point, unfortunately.
Counterpoint Coconut: you say there is no punishment for dying, but we all know the real punishment is that we play more DBD
why play a game you hate
I personally don’t identify with the notion that the goal is to always get a 4 man or to always get 4k’s. Since what the devs design for is a .6 sacrifice rate, my goal as survivor is to do my best to get at least 3 out. If my best doesn’t get that done, then the killer has beat my team and not necessarily bested me in a 1v1, so pubs can never lead to a personal vendetta. Tunneling me out is a valid strategy for winning and my teammates are responsible for reacting accordingly. If the match is a loss then being able to help the final person get hatch is that glimmer of hope protected. As killer I always come in to do my best and since the game has random elements and I don’t play either role with meta perks or mentality, yeah a loss has different choices I could have made. I could choose a stronger killer or build or burn maps and that just isn’t fun. I’m gonna laugh off the elitists and punish when possible, but it’s a game, no sense in hating.
"Toxic streamers are bad but toxicity is good cuz I said so"
Just because you don't lose a pip, doesn't mean you will now gain one. You still have to work to gain that pip and a bad game will still mean you may not gain one.
Exactly! Keep the pip thresholds unchanged and it still requires effort and playtime.
My gripe with de-pipping was only as a solo-queue survivor.
I was trying to get Iri 1 on both Killer and Survivor for Wesker's release.
Took a bit, but I got to Iri 1 on Killer fairly easily.
When it came to Survivor, however, it was a struggle and gave up after only getting to Iri 2.
This was mostly due to working in matches to gain a pip, then getting de-pipped in matches where the killer tunneled/camped me or my teammates gave up or DC'ed.
I am not averse to a challenge as long as it is largely my fault I'm losing, but these circumstances honestly made it more frustrating than challenging in Iri ranks.
Additionally, do we NEED a mechanical punishment for a loss? DbD is a versus game that brings about competitive feelings. Some have a stronger competitive nature than others, but most people will feel, at some level, "I want to win, I don't want to lose", and will feel bad just because they lost, and may take that loss to varying degrees.
How many people have you seen that are upset about losing in DbD? Were they upset about losing a pip, or were they upset before they even got to the pip screen?
Challenge reference for any souls/Elden Ring players: I fought Mohg without a summon or anti blood curse flask for 5 hours on my 1st playthrough and I'm trying to learn how to true dodge Malenia on my 2nd playthrough right now(personally hate this boss).
Also, a quick fix to how I view de-piping as frustrating in my original comment would be the following:
-You can only de-pip if you spent more than 5-6(?) minutes in a match.
-You de-pip if you DC or lose connection to a match.
This would help prevent de-piping to things out of your control but still allow those who are in full-fledged matches the ability to de-pip if they aren't pulling their weight.
The 2nd clause is just to prevent abuse of the 1st clause.
The (?) Is because I don't know what the average match or some of the quickest match times are, adjust it for those variables.
They changed it to prevent the copious amounts of tunneling Blights to stop people from pipping
So in other words, they're still doing nothing about the root of the problem then.
@@kltil5082 nope, are you really shocked?
I think it’s fine that rank doesn’t decrease, I think they getting rid of it is so make rank less competitive
Basically, avoiding the people asking for casual mode all together. I don't know. It feels irresponsible and good at the same time.
I never noticed it ever going down
@@Quintapion it only goes down if you die very early without getting a decent chase, like getting insta downed and tunneled out in the first 3 minutes. If you're killer it goes down if you do something like camping and tunneling the same survivor the whole game and getting only one kill.
The reason behind getting rid of depips is to make sure that someone’s not being wronged about being slugged, camped or tunneled or from the survivor’s stand point even feel like they’re doing a lot but the game registers it as not enough. Like how you’re supposed to do gens but also heal and take chase. But now, since everyone is tunneling, you can kind of guess that they’re dropping pallets. The “punishment for losing” would just be lack of bloodpoints, loss of item and add ons, loss of time in general for not being able to do much.
It’s what the game is becoming because:
1) BHVR doesn’t even know what type of game they have (is it competitive or casual?)
To specify this point by making swf the main way to play this game on the survivor side: by default had made the game unplayable for killers (because in any other game-working together on comms is considered a huge unfair advantage)
So they buff killers and nerf survivors to the point that this game is only playable for survivors if you are in a team that communicates with the utmost efficiency.
2) the community does not know how to act as adults.
SWFs think they are superior players even tho the concept of how they’re playing in any other game would be considered cheating.
Killers think they are superior even though devs have stated in previous interviews that they are changing the game to make the default killer exp a 3-4k.
Everyone thinks this game is fine, all the mean while survivors get lousy content (chapter wise) because any good perk is “too op” in the game’s current state and killers get sweat fests almost every match.
Maybe instead of barking around and b1t€h1ng like little kids; but instead work together and complain about the ACTUAL PROBLEMS this game has-the game would actually be fun again.
I think the rank system is supposed to be a monthly engagement thing. Like "Let me get to red rank this month for the bloodpoint bonus"
EXACTLY.
The issue is the side effect of tunneling and camping the game can be completely out of your control and you lose progression, because a killer decided "fuck you" today. There is still a reward for playing well, and by not playing well you don't progress towards that reward, but removing pips is just hostile game design.
I think the worst part of de-pipping for me was the point max screwing me over and forcing a de-pip even if i had a good game. You can't fully control it if a killer chases you for the whole game. If you've done this then you've done your team a really big service. You were a very important and integral part of the game...and then you de-pip. I don't think de-pips need to be removed i think the point system and how you gain points in a game needs to be reworked.
Have MMR not shown by default to both you and other players, as it currently is. Have an option in Settings, where you can turn MMR on -- when on, you see your MMR ratings, and on Match Results screen, you now see the MMR ratings of each player who also has the setting on. Casuals can live in blissful ignorance, not seeing their own or anyone elses' MMR, while those wanting a measurement of success can turn it on. Everyone wins. When you have MMR on, and you see the players in match results with no MMR shown also reveals a bit about their priorities and style (but NOT skill level), and is interesting, and adds to the community. Really, everyone wins.
All I know is, is I have everyone at Level 9, and I have nothing left to do. Without things left to unlock and without a skill-based rating to try to improve, I have no goals, and I play DBD a lot less now. It sucks. I don't care about emblems and depipping, but yah, removing depips is one less goal for people to work on. You'll get rank 1 accidently while just working on a couple Archive pages. Meaningless.
You no longer lose a pip, but you can still not gain a pip.
That’s the new loss, not gaining any pips.
Which is fine, because now I’ll have to invest more playtime to get that pip.
I honestly think this change is partially a reaction to the reddit post by a physiologist talking about the stress and humiliationg of playing dbd. Yes the post was made 7 years ago but people didnt talk about it until these past few months
Playing a B tier killer or lower is a humiliation ritual against competent players, so the guy is making some sense.
Playing only solo queue and having someone sacrifice themselves on hook, one person gives up and then one player becomes a bot. THEN I lose a pip as well? Since its just for blood points, I can appreciate it.
I don't know how it can be THAT hard for content creators (and other arrogant "elite" players) to understand: de-pipping is NOT fun in a game, where the outcome whether you make enough points or not, solely depends on 3 completely random people, who can sabotage your pipping on purpose.
A party game with 100% RNG each and every match (killer, perks, map, items, layout, teammates, etc...) should NEVER have anything like deranking that frustrates players, when they can NOT control it! Period!
Doesn't matter, what all those 10,000hrs content creators or tryhard sweatlords say...
I have the opposite opinion, the removal of the depip incentivizes more casual players to want to try and experiment with builds and play styles, instead of feeling obligated to try their hardest to win so they don’t depip.
I think it's more for those matches where ur hard tunneled out or u die on first hook where u can lose a pip through very little fault of your own so depipping along with the loss of the match is like a double loss since u can play well and die and still pip so that loss doesn't feel as bad because it shows u played well
If your argument is solely “why can’t you just play the game for fun who cares about the pip changes” then I ask - why are you even worried about it at all? It’s obviously not meant for you. It’s for people like me that are forced to deal with the cesspool that is solo queue most days. And since killers are tunneling and slugging more than ever, yeah, I don’t want to de-pip for five or six terrible games in a row that are mostly out of MY control.
Like if you’re saying players are too sensitive and you should continue to de-pip for literal unbalanced matches - please just shut up.
Coconut is so out of touch to the average gamer experience on DBD. This is a massive L take on his part. He is saying he’s pro psychopath.
Getting red 1 on killer is BALLS easy, and on survivor you can do good and run the killer and have someone give up on first hook with 3 gens left then you just lose a pip cause of other people, or you can do gens, heal people, escape, etc, and still lose a pip cause you didn't go out of your way to seek chases or protection hits at higher ranks. This is a good change. My sense of accomplishment should not come from hoping other people can perform.
It's very easy to say people don't have tough skin out of context. If every game you see people namecalling, every forum post is someone bitching about stuff, every interaction is negative, yeah, the toxicity is a big issue. It gets hard to ignore if it's everywhere. So much so that most content creators who engage in a playstyle they admit is OP or at least unfun to go against, they highlight when a survivor team or a killer takes it in a sportsmanlike manner. It's bad when the sportsmanlike conduct is just that rare that it gets highlighted in videos about the game instead of being the norm. It isn't because the community can't take a loss, I think. It's because a loss in DBD is usually caused by many things out of the player's control. So much so that the devs themselves said they want luck to be a factor in the winrates for both sides. Depipping has no purpose currently and hasn't had any purpose in the last 3 years due to how the matchmaking works. I don't see how keeping it around would make people take a loss better. Besides, a lot of people really don't care about losing or playing any given way.
Hey @CoconutRTS, I am speaking for myself on this subject about the game and if others agree with me, that's another story. I deal with mental health issues like MDD and PTSD and when I would play Dead by Daylight to meet new and old players alike in the game and get familiar with the community. That was all swell while I would play Survivor but whenever I played Killer, it was always excuses or shaming to me. It started off with them saying the very same statements and me brushing them off on stream/off stream. But as I started to play more and more of the game it went from not only them trolling me with comments but coming to my stream to shame me and with my mental health, it would snowball. With that being said, I enjoy your content because you can do what I can't and you promote such a positive aspect on the community and in the game as a whole. It just shames me that I can't even get myself to play the game nowadays (even though I still buy the content and maybe so often play the bots) because how alienated I felt playing a game I enjoyed because of that power dynamic you say brings people to play this game. I am not sure exactly how the community is nowadays but I truly try to play as a escape because my life is difficult but I can't even get myself past the menu at times because I just am discouraged to play. I may be that majority that you're calling "sensitive" but I only became that way in the community because of the habits people would do for enjoyment/trolling/content.
Thank you if you took the time to read this and I hope you can respect my opinion as I do yours here in the comment(s).
depipping is stupid and easily abusable... you can just focus on 1 survivor as soon as the match starts, and send them out with 0 points ... noone wants that.
idk how not being able to unpip makes progressing/winning feel less fun. Losing still gives less BP (you get 7k for escaping, 8.5k if you were the obsession) and you lose your items. If you only care about losing because of pips, you didn't really care about losing to begin with. It still takes time and effort to hit grade 1, and losing still gives you no progress. Depipping is a relic of when it was tied to rank, if it's just for BP there's no reason to make you lose rank over it. Imagine complaining about more BP. dbd players will find anything to complain about, and will turn anything into a debate. Give it a few days and nobody will be talking about it because it doesn't matter
Chat filter sucks, it barely works, it censors innocent things and lets bad things slip by, and there's no option to turn it off. But still I don't think it's infantilization to try to stop people from saying you ***ing **** r***** a** piece of S*** I hope you ***** in ****** for ***** yo whole family. Who needs to see that? Relying purely on reports and manual moderation is silly for a game of this size, taking some effort to try to stop some of the stuff before it happens is better than doing nothing about it
Mori spamming literally served no purpose and only made the game worse. Imagine if survivors could control their character after leaving the killer's bounds of the exit gate, they would be teabagging forever and never leave until they got bored. Mori spamming was essentially the same thing, it just held the game hostage and paused the bleedout timer and was literally just toxic. The game was practically over (at least for the person being mori'd) and the killer is just stretching it out for no reason and it only ends when they get bored or the bleedout timer slowly creeps its way down. There are almost no good reasons to leave it in the game, while there are plenty of reasons to remove it
Making a game fun for everyone involved should always be the goal of a game's creators. It should not be required for one participant to suffer for another to have fun. If pursuing the goal of mutual fun is seen as a problem, then the problem is not with the game but with the player. Dare I say, if you can only have fun by inflicting suffering on someone else, your fun isn't important
People say the game is stale because it's the same damn thing for 8 years. Generators are not an interesting objective, and there is nothing else to do. It's not like F13 where there were other objectives to do and multiple ways to win, different ways of completing your goal. People have been playing the game a lot, it's natural that they will start getting tired of it when nothing has been added or changed about the core gameplay in forever. No other objectives, no other interactables, nothing like that. It's not because the game isn't toxic enough or doesn't have enough cuck simulator
Also idk where people have been for the last 8 years. The game has always been toxic. In fact, toxicity is one of the main complaints people have about the game. Many people in the community say this is one of the most toxic games. I don't think they are saying it as a compliment
Happiness isn't necessarily diminished by being shared, and it's not necessarily gained by being taken. I just feel like this whole idea of people need to be shitty to each other to have fun is silly. Ask anyone, the most fun and memorable moments in dbd are the wholesome friendly funny moments, not the times where they were screaming with veins bulging out of their neck about how much they hate the other player. I've seen far more people happy about the times they had a fun match with nice people and made some good friends, not so much when they got facecamped/teabagged and call 50 slurs and quit the game for the day
Except, even if I die, I can still pip up if I’ve participated enough in the trial. I find it motivating to be more active per trial, to do more than just gens. I liked that they removed the de-pip because some trials are over before they’ve begun and so I got nothing out of it.
I don't even look for my pips anymore since they hid the grades. I'm just looking at my player profile randomly and think "oh, I'm already Iri1? good to know."
i think that getting tunneled and you lose a pip is kinda annoying, i just want the bloodpoints from it because i'm a new player and need to level up to unlock the perks for everyone
Losing pips doesn't have anything to do with you getting bloodpoints from the matches. Your next game you'll get the same bloodpoints you would have gotten whether you got tunneled out the last game or not. Your argument makes no sense. This will change nothing about tunneling, you are still going to get tunneled and you're still going to get less points because you were killed earlier than other people. It's on your team to stop the killer from doing things like this, and if they can't then your team has lost the game. You know, the entire point of playing games?
You seem to just want a walking simulator where points are handed out to you like candy, while using "im new here uwu" as an excuse. If you don't find learning from your mistakes fun then go play Barbie's dreamhouse where you can unlock characters without stress and have your little fashion shows for them. No one will ever call you trash at the game and you can live in a safe bubble.
Ironically, this change is actually going to get you less BP. Because the higher you rank the more free BP you get at the end of the season. If they decide ranking is "too stressful" for players and get rid of it, then guess who's not getting anymore free lump sums of BP anymore? Yup, you. And everyone else. Even if your rank sucks you're still going to make a few hundred thousand.
NGL, I’ve been lurking in comments to see everyone’s opinions and I’m just gonna say I wouldn’t sweat about KLT’s comment 😭
I’ve been playing since awhile before huntress and the game has always been taken WAY to seriously by a lot of people. I also only have just enough BPs for levelling characters because I don’t *only* play DBD or consistently farm it so I don’t wanna have to relive farming BP for characters anytime soon 💀..
@@ThysJester thanks, i just don't know why someone just throws insults to someone for just giving their opinion, things just can't be a respectful debate when talking about dbd
@@jpks4582 Yeah this community is one of the most argumentive and tunnel visioned groups I’ve ever participated in, it’s crazy !
Have fun in your matches
@@kltil5082 Oh my god you're annoying. Are you like this for free or is someone paying you?
I really wish there was a ranked MMR system in this game, like in dota. Ranked and Unranked. People who want MMR play ranked, people who don't play unranked, it's win-win. But this game is stagnating rn without MMR. The thing I found for myself is I use nightlight that records my games, so I can see my loses and wins, killrate is equal to winrate too, it's what makes DBD matches matter for me, I feel like every match matters.
I find it funny how 8 years have nearly passed since the release of dbd, and yet we as a community are never satisfied by this game, but i love how we try to come up ways to make it fun for everyone whether you’re competitive or not..DBD is so interesting and i wonder how much the game will continue improving
If pip and rank has nothing to do with MMR, then who cares if the de-pip is gone. Everyone has a different idea of how the game should play and no one is agreeing on anything. I'm more upset about the Blight changes because I just started getting comfortable with hug techs. Who cares about the pip stuff.
Because they always said "Its just a matter of how much you play the game" but that wasn't' really true when you could be immediately tunneled out, or maybe the Killer DCs early in the match, so many reasons why you don't get enough "points" to even safety pip are beyond your control. So it really became for many of us a constant case of "You did well enough and helped your team, but screw you, you're getting punished anyway." I've even had cases where we finished all 5 generators and got out, and I still depipped because we never healed or got into a chase or anything because the killer was AFK the entire match. Even more so for those killers that just want to have fun playing the game, but no they need to sweat for the 4K because they need those +2 pips to make up for the times they run up against the 4-main SWF bully squads. So the removal of depips will take away a lot of the stress of it, allow players to earn that extra 2,000,000 at their own pace, and I think overall make the game better in the long run. Those who only care about winning will still play the same way, but those of us who care about bloodpoints and fun over actually winning (I like to think we are the majority) will be finally able to enjoy the game!
I mean a big reason I can see for the Infantilization of DBD is whenever a perk is unballanced, someone plays the game a different way or just something is considered not fair, So many killers and survivors stamp their feet, whine and complain like children and I can imagine this is what BHVR sees. I am in a DBD Facebook group and almost every post is someone complaining about something, not in a respectable way, it often comes across like a agnst teen telling their parents "It's not fair". Just my thoughts.
The issue is that de-pipping isn’t just about dying. At times, I can perform well, escape, but Im at the mercy of the Emblem system as to rather I de-pip or gain a pip, since aspects of the Emblem system are tied to the team and not my individual performance.
It's funny you post this, me and my family were just talking about the amount of farming killers we come across and that it's getting old. I stopped playing the game for awhile a couple of months ago and came back after the initial matchmaking change and never bothered to look into it. These changes are pretty weird.
Dude reasoning is so wrong man, people don't play for be toxic, they play for the adrenaline and the sensation of a derivate victim and killer sensation, the mmr ranking and bullshit is just a number that is used for keep the matches whit the hope of winning or loosing, is valid to feel emotion by the number you have but the mmr is just a tool from the game, not his purpose
If MMR wasn't a thing I would care about winning more. with a rank based game matchmaking with supposedly 'equal skilled' people. I feel if I lose more I will get less stressed games. But I would still try to win and not just throw the match as either team.
Right now if I have a window in a trial to find hatch with 3 escaped survivors, I will find it cus its both a win and apparently counts a draw for me as survivor. I would do this even if it may caused my death on a hook as either way right now is benefit to me unless a challenge is present.
And right now as Killer, I will Almost constantly give survivors extra chances, purposely ignore them and act like I did not see them, run into stuns, whatever it takes to extend the game for a loss but without trying to throw the match by not playing it unless there is a challenge present.
Have you played solo queue, Coco? It's hell out there.
I agree with the statement that they are too concerned about the feelings of players, Recently I was insulted as a killer because they did not crank out a single gen. And I was playing Wraith. In my opinion, when you get shit on by the opposing side and you didn't hack or abuse the game mechanics it's actually a compliment because you did so well that they started crying.
i just started playing and i feel extreamly unmotivated without the ability to lose pips
I dont really like this take... Original DBD fostered a very toxic and competitive environment. Because they take forever to change things DBD is slowly turning into that "party game" they've mentioned wanting it to become. You can only punish a player so much before they'll say the game feels stale and boring when they aren't actually achieving anything. You can make a game fun and entertaining without the toxic behavior and repetitive punishments. I believe a better focus on bloodpoints is enough for being rewarded and punished than having some arbitrary system tell you you're bad.
NGL, I really hated the de-pipping; a couple too often I was at 4 pips, stomped my game, but then a survivor would do something cute and I gave them hatch, thus not pipping up because I missed out on sacrifice points AND the next three games paired me up against seal team 6s and I lost all progress. That felt AWEFUL and over time it tought me to park my funny gamer self and conscience at the door and just play as sweaty as possible till I got to Iri 1... only then I could relax and play like myself and do cute things with cute survivors.
I talked a lot about this on the forums and some guy had a pretty good idea about adding more pips, but making de-pipping impossible, so that 250 or so good matches per month carried you to Iri 1, but you only de-pipped when you DCed. Just taking de-pipping away will mean that there is only one way, ie up to go with your ranks, so if they do nothing to increase the ranks, most players should hit Iri 1 on their prefered roll within the first week of every new season.
I think 200-250 pips needed for Iri 1 would be a good compromise to what we got now, but over all, believe it or not, I think that the de-pipping mechanic was a big contributor to how sweaty the game has become. In the end it was just 1 million blood points, but no one likes to have their progress taken away, so people sweat when at 3+ pips.
I dont really see how losing pips is infantilization of the game. High mmr people don't care about pips and for the most part dont need/care about bloodpoints. All this tells me as a survivor I should get ready for some changes thats just going to make killer stronger. Which is the real problem - The obsession with buffing killers and making killer powers counter everything puts the majority of people who play survivor into a shitty mindset. The real buff to this game would be to nerf most killers, remove nurse and remove the ability to play teams. I dont care about the 10% of dbd players that need to go into every match with there butt buddies. The infantilization of this game came when dbd had to baby killers because 4 mans exist. Remove 4 mans.
tbh I think they're just getting rid of a dead mechanic from a different time in DbD. Back in the emblem/bp systems, pipping=winning. Black pip=tie and De-pip=loss. But now pips don't mean anything and rank doesn't mean anything so it doesn't make sense to keep it.
I'm a little goo goo baby please don't punish me.
Alternative Title:
CoconutRTS saying that telling killer/survivor to off himself, bleeding out last person out of spite, rage commenting on steam and that person to person toxicity/frustration is the gameplay for 17 minutes
Possibly in a ranked setting this drive to get rewarded for winning and punishment for losing would apply but operant conditioning has shown time and time again that rewards always incentives more than punishments. You want your dog to sit, you’ll have far more effective results giving them treats for every success than taking away toys or hurting the dog for each failure. Rewarding players for doing well is enough to incentives them to play well. Punishing them, especially when they’re trying their best only distances them from wanting to try any further.
I think we've gone too far where everything is considered toxic nowadays, but at the same time, if you're like that guy who said he doesn't have fun unless he's bullying people you should probably just be playing something else.
So what I think one of the commenters meant by saying it splits the casual & sweaty players is:
I'm currently going through levelling every character in DBD, so the Rank BPS matters to me a lot. What this has caused, is for me to start playing sweatier. I run all meta builds, bring map offerings, and play simply to increase pips, that way I can get the BPS I need to progress. Removing the De-pip function makes it to where I can play casually and eventually obtain Iri 1's since I naturally do well even when not sweating. The issue with De-Pips is it makes the progression much less fun, and yes, while removing de-pip does create a scenario where you now feel less accomplished for progressing, for those who were wanting to progress simply for the rewards of progression, it feels so good. I understand to players who don't care about BPS since they have every character Prestige 9 doesn't matter, but to the average player, this is such an amazing QOL change, and I am really happy BHVR is going through with it. Just the other week, I was playing with a friend trying to get Iri 1 on Survivor, and I got all the way to Iri 3. Only to get tunneled, and tunnleled, and tunnleled. My friend tried to help me, but I was ALWAYS the one to die in the match, getting camped & tunneled on hooks. In that scenario, what does the player do? How is the progression punishment fair when a player's performance isn't tied to their skill, but to the generocity of the opposing side?
TL;DR - Good games are those that make players feel like they have agency and that their actions matter. Elements that take away agency harm player experience and disincentivize the drive to play.
I guess I personally already stopped caring about losing because winning also meant nothing. So de-pipping from dying as survivor or a bad game as killer stopped being important to me. And honestly once I stopped caring about it, I stopped playing dbd at all for like 6 months after 2000 hours. I've gotten back into it, but I still can't take it seriously at all... its honestly very freeing.
The most important thing for me in any game is the sense of player agency, like the video you showed talked about. Feeling like you can affect the world around you and that your choices matter. When it feels like what you do doesn't matter, you stop caring about being successful or not. And then you stop playing it at all. What's at least better is that people still get mad about problems in DbD. When people stop giving a shit that things are bad, you know the game is truly dead.
So the final point about ambition and player agency is that good perks or killers or maps or items are such because of how they affect the game based on your actions. What feels terrible is when one of those things negatively effects you and there was literally nothing you could do about it all. You were just screwed from the start. That's why I stopped playing when wesker was released; I got sick of getting grabbed from around corners. And I also stopped for a while when MFT was at its height because it just made it feel like nothing I did as killer mattered at all.
The problem with depiping was that on iri levels it was possible to lose a pip even when escaping
14:04 here’s the thing, if you suck balls 5 games in a row, you’re still not gonna get ANY pips 5 games in a row, which would still hurt. It’s not that there is NO more effects for doing bad, it’s just less of an effect. And not to mention, as it was said at the start, with the fact that the rank system doesn’t effect MMR anymore, there’s no reason to really even care about losing pips. I think they should have just made a change that actually mattered to the game currently, instead of focusing on something that didn’t matter as much, like Hag’s map for one example.
Working 10hr shifts I only have time to play dbd for at least 3 hrs this allows me to get some good games in just to catch up on leveling up my characters wether I level up to have more addons for killers or certain items for survivor gather up as much bloodpoints as I can and those being the grades so at rank reset I’m rewarded for my hard work no more depip means I don’t have to spend so much precious time on trying to gain those back when all the matches have been a rollercoaster of gaining and losing pips recently there has been a lot of server crashes and making us lose our items and pips so overall it’s a great change.
This is a weird take. Dbd is a game. It is not a competition. Yes, it has its competitive scene, but most players are casuals. Some work or study and they come home late to have a game or two. And when these games have shitty ping pr servers dying or tunneling and camping in solo queue. Or for killer an swf who leaves you no chance for a casual play - you get really demotivated. When you lose a pip after an already bad game, you just don't want to go on sometimes.
My point is - I want to play a game for fun. Try new funny little builds, try having a chase. Not to sweat every match just to not have the game tell me I did bad.
Did you know that in "My little Oni" you could de-pip even if you escaped or killed everyone? Yeah, I just thing that the pipping system got a little redundant with the direction the ge is going
if you wanna play casually it's simple: just dont care about your rank. They should at least give people who DO CARE about their rank a chance by displaying it. If that stresses you out, that's your fault. Like you said, it's just a game. If you wanna take it casually, rank/depip should not bother you.
Idk if this is relevant but I’ve been playing since 2017, before we had any of the safety measures like the unhook timer or the anti face camp mechanics, and it was brutal but that’s what motivated me to become a decent survivor player. Also teabagging, head shaking or hitting on hook has always and will always be funny to me.
The dev's actions kinda explain why they haven't added voice coms for survivors. When I first started to discover dbd I always question why there weren't survivor coms.
I wish I could save this. You went complete Ted Talk on this!
i feel like this is not what it is at all, you're kinda mixing up bm with toxicity, bm isnt really harmful to the community and can be valuable friendly competition, they will never remove stuff like hitting on hook, tbagging or humping, you will always be able to have the friendly competition, it just comes off to me that they're appealing more towards the wider casual audience, that doesnt care so much about how they're performing through the ranking system, and more just about individual matches and personal victories, trying not to lump them in with the ultra comp sweats who think anyone with a lower number is a lesser human despite having them in the same queue
i just dont think you need to see those numbers to have fun, you know how well the match went, its just a metric for people to go "my number is bigger than yours so you're trash"
This is similar to why I hate devs nerfing something instead of buffing the counters/alternatives. You just take the fun until there's nothing left instead of empowering other things
Exactly this. All they need to do is put in a ranked mode. Bam, problem solved everyone wins. Softies can stick to casual if they want and the rest of us can play normally, not have idiots prioritizing challenges when we're trying to win, way less throwers, and actually get paired up with people who are a comparable skill level. Take leaver penalties off casual and put them on ranked. I don't know how following other tried and tested game models that pretty much every remotely comparable game has been doing for years..is so complicated for them to figure out.
@@kltil5082 and make all the censoring and hiding mmr settings for the people who can't handle it
Tbh I only play dbd once a month for a few days when the reset happens because thats when the game is fun... Less surv giving up and less killers tunneling/slugging at 5 gens.
I really like the game and I like playing the game and having fun, I dont enjoy like being hardcore sweaty and trying to make the killers or surv suffer
i just play the game for fun, i dont think that a matchmaking sistem in a game like this really matters. even tho i always get iridescent
playing killer but not allowing a killer mindset, bring the chaos
All I'm getting from this argument is you miss being able to bully people by being toxic?
That is also what I get from that, I mean just look at some endgame chats and you know what he is defending.
@@aroace7913 I understand fully when he says that toxicity is a part of the game. But toxicity only comes in play with depipping when you intentionally take someone out of the game trying to get them to depip, which is is a shitty, boring thing to do.
At this point it makes more sense to think of your grade as a battle pass than a rank, meant to be an indicator of how much you play and not an indicator of skill. It's clear that was their intention ever since they stopped using it for matchmaking and moved to MMR. Now it's still a baffling dcecision, because emblems are a way better indicator of skill than MMR is, but that's for another day I guess.
Overall though I really don't think is coddling to the sensitive players. This is not just about having one bad game and not being punished for it. There are TONS of ways to lose that are not in your control, and it is extra shitty to be knocked down because of matchmaking giving you an AFK teammate or getting tunneled out twice in a row. If anything this will bring more people back to the game (myself included) because people won't feel like they're being punished for what is essentially RNG. No matter how bad a game goes for you, the time you invest into your grade will always be there. There is nothing more disheartening than spending the one hour you get to play DBD a day getting 4 bad matches in a row, and wasting your only free time.
I would make the argument that it's needed mostly for solo players, killer or survivor, both having sometimes the misfortune of encountering something they simply have extremely low to nothing chance of winning against:
A solo queue survivor having to deal with little communication with other survivors (can cause snowballing scenarios with impossible recovery) and the killer having a build that only a good swf can counter or is very good at the game (matchmaking just not existing sometimes)
The killer side having to deal with a swf on comms with specific builds that can lead to no kills if killer played extremely bad (even with some high tier killers) or being extremely unlucky with stuff like map dependancy and hook spawns (just getting screwed by RNG which is very frustrating).
Ranks as of now are more of a "reward for monthly dedication" rather than actual skill, it helps new players that have very few prestiges get a monthly reward just by playing till a match it goes right and pip up, it might affect a few learning curves but i think it's fine, hell we have Devotion and that doesn't give any rewards other than a loop of high/low amount of iri shards and that's just cosmetics, bloodpoints for new players is required for them to wanna stick around and get out of the hole that is playing with very few perks at the start.
This is all easily solved by just making a ranked mode
Part of me wonders if this change is to widen the killer pool so ppl don't feel forced to playing the same killers over and over
there's a difference between bullying and competitive jeering.