100% appreciate your animosity in this.. Really need to hold these companies accountable for their failures and force them to earn the reward of our purchase,... or suffer the loss of credibility.
When it comes to “mechanical accuracy” and eliminating “slop” the quality and reliability of components is very important. I would like to hear the reasoning behind creality’s design choices prior to manufacturing. If the marketing on the website doesn’t match what they’re selling I don’t need to be an engineer to know it’s not acceptable. 🧐 Good stuff Ian. 👍
My understanding of an all metal hot end is the filament path from the input entrance in the extruder to the nozzle tip via the heater chamber and tubuar guide way is all metal and that no teflon tube is in its path so as it can be heated safely to 300 c without any teflon giving off poisoness gas's from burning teflon, a plastic gear train does not have any limitations as to the performance of filament flow through all metal tubing but may degrade in teeth wear over a long production period
With all metal they are talking about the hot end itself. And they are 100% correct it's a full metal hot end. If you extend that to the complete head they are wrong. But honestly - I was not expecting metal gears, because they are simply not needed. Only the pieces that grip the filament has to be of metal, because they have to deliver high pressures. All other gears are totally fine being of a rigid kind of plastic, because the can easy deliver the force that is needed. These gears will last for decades. The hot end has to be full metal to be able to deliver the 300 degrees high temperature, and that is where using metal is critical. Non full metal hot ends have a PTFE tube going into the heater block, reducing the maximum temperature to about 240 degrees maximum. That would rule out a lot of filaments that need a higher temperature. So yeah - You can complain the gears are not fully metal, but in practice it makes no difference if they are made from metal or hard plastic - At all...
It's even advantageous with plastic gears in many applications as they don't need lubricant and run more smoothly. If the tooth load is within acceptable limits then there just isn't any point in using metal gears.
@@motordude67 I like to add that the more metal you add to the head, the more the mass increases. That does not matter too much at low speeds, but it's a totally different story at high speed printing. Every bit of weight added to the head also means more inertia, meaning trouble at sharp edges (fast turning) that will get rounder and less sharp as a result. Also increased ringing will occur, spoiling smooth surfaces. In short - A bit of metal added looks like it does not matter much, but it definitely has it's effects at (very) high printing speeds.
There goes Creality again… with the ender models they specified an ‘All Metal Hot end’ but they had PTFE tube down through the heat break right to the nozzle.
lol, this is the first reviewer I’ve seen in 1000’s of hours of videos learning about cameras and 3D printers, who actually has a backbone and isn’t a shill. They are all shills. We think they are simply “nice” people who don’t want to say mean things, but that isn’t the case. They are paid for their reviews; all of them. 99% of the videos you see about any gear you are interested in, were sent the product for free and most likely paid to review it. It’s fake and disgusting. This guy is real. I’m subscribing. Thank you for not gaslighting people like every other reviewer out there.🎉
A magnet isn't going to work on all metals. nickel, titanium,.... Has to be a ferous metal for a magnet to work. I didnt really see a good picture of the gears to think they are plastic persay.
@@MadRCAh. Yeah they probably referring to the gears that the filament goes through vs the gears that drive the Extruder. Like others. But agree the marketing doesn't line up to reality.
having only just seen one video of your prior to this, you just earned my respect as a viable reviewer and not a corporate shill :P. Much appreciated. Please keep us updated
Ever since Bamboo Labs came out with their printers, Creality became a concentrated shit tier manufacturer. I wouldn't trust them to sell me a toilet bowl brush.
Finally you also realized this extruder and nozzle isn’t what was advertised and we can see on the images on their website. 😅 Theres also no replacement to this nozzle. The support tells they don’t know when or if their will variants of this proprietary nozzle in their shop. It’s a complete dealbreaker. I need 0.2 and 0.6 nozzles, too, or this printer will be useless for me.
Seriously? So they think 1 nozzle in the printer for its entire lifetime? If they dont have spares on the webpage.. or the Prusa MK4 nozzles dont fit.. then I wont even unbox mine.. It will be returned
yeah, I was that close to order one, but checked for the spare parts: nothing. so I'm holding off for now... will maybe go with a bambu P1s in the coming weeks if Creality don't add spare parts....
I think this is just a disambiguation issue. “All metal extruder” in my experience refers to the heater / heatsink which means the extruder can run hotter and use engineering filaments. The gearing behind the drive wheel could be considered part of the overall extruder assembly…. So they should have said “all metal hot end” perhaps… although if you consider the drive mechanism to be part of the hot end, then you are sunk there too.
Welcome to the world of 3D printing. YES, Creality has been doing this for YEARS and they have earned their name as the most affordable, most upgraded after purchase machine in the market. Don't expect anything from them, other than the same cheap and mis information products with whatever parts they have laying around at the time.
Yeah. But at least you can go and get stuff from other for their printers. Not like BL. Been waiting for a replacement HT board for a month now. And my 1300 $ printer is just a paper weight. For that I could have had 2 or 3 k1s. Lesson learned.
I'm wondering how much a "full metal" extruder would do ? As long as the parts touching the filament is metal, which is the case, maybe that's all that matters ? Because that's the only part that needs to be solid metal with the abrasion of carbon filaments, right ? the gears are not worn much in the extrusion process ?
Thanks for the update...this is a game changer for me! I have a Creality K1C sitting in their shopping cart right now...now it will still sit there while I revisit 3 other manufacturers: 1) Flash Forge: AD5M & AD5MP 2) Bambu Lab: P1P & P1S 3) QIDI: X-Smart 3 4) Creality: K1C (still in shopping cart) Any feedback from anyone as to which is the best one to get....will be appreciated! :)
100% and AMEN! I sincerely appreciate you trying to help keep the manufacturers honest. I'm very put off by Creality's last couple of moves, but they did try to stand behind their original K1s by replacing parts with newer designs. I hope they rectify this situation because if they don't I will be taking them off my list of consideration for a larger core XY printer.
I never actually thought all metal actually meant fully made of metal. I know it sounds silly but I take it like the commonly referred to all metal hotends. It refers to the path the filament travels is all metal. Metal hobs and tension lever is all that's necessary. The plastic gears are probably better in that application anyhow. Curious where this all goes and what the outcome is.
Thank you I got a k1 just before Xmas & it's been nothing but junk . the extruder clicks now & then & its clean some times it doesn't extrude fully has misses & the hot end is total shit .. i have written to creality several time's & every time 0 help its always my setting are wrong or some thing i have done .. I am so close to just not bothering with it & go back to my NEVER fail ender 3 pro . if you can help me that would be great if not thanks any way . sorry for venting . chears Andrew
Just checked the creality official website and the extruder has now had the wording changed from all metal extruder to just metal extruder. The picture has also changed to show there is plastic gears with the part the feeds the filament though to be metal. Also the animated video shown here of the extruder seems to have vanished.
I purchased my Ender 3 V3 KE as a bundle kit they had advertised on their website. I had preordered it 2-3 weeks before it had released. Part of the order showed up. I had to email them asking where my stuff was. They then proceeded to tell me that the bundle had changed and I wasn't getting the dry filament box that originally came with the bundle. They changed the website ad and everything. Luckily I had screenshots. Hours and days of arguments with them got me no where. My KE printed and worked so well until 2 weeks ago. The Y-Axis belt shredded, the X-Axis belt has been shredding since new and then my hotend blew up and filament literally wrapped around it up onto the heatsink. Go with Bambu Labs people!
The extruder itself is 100% all metal. The casing that goes around it is plastic. It's honestly the exact definition of the parts, it just not what we as consumers call the parts but technically Creality 100% told the truth. I'm not convinced that they shouldn't have been a little more forthcoming in their ads though.
I think Mads has a fair point calling this out. If you google "metal extruder" you find extruders which are made entirely of metal, including some sold by Creality. It's fair enough to expect the same given past and present definitions of "metal extruder" appear to include the casing and gears. My suspicion was they really meant to point out the replacement of the PTFE tube with a metal one, and the description got lost in translation initially and was never corrected. Which is not an excuse at all - if anyone should be able to get 3d printer terminology correct Creality should.
I am at the beginning of my 3d printing journey and very happy to see a review like this! After Bambu revolutionized the market last year, Creality had one job to show they had what it takes and failed. I will never own a Creality machine when there are so many high quality machines that perform amazingly well with high quality parts AS DESCRIBED, simple as that. Thank you for this video.
It's from a place were miss-direction is a way of life. Those that 'review' products don't point out what everyone knows (or should) but this crap started when the first products arrived and we have ignored it with excuses. What no 'reviewer' has every mentioned is the K1 Max has a 1,000 watt power supply while the K1 has a 350 watt supply or that the supported materials listed for K1, K1 Max and K1C are the same....
Check this out. When my extruder jammed(my fault) I opened it up and found a powdered metal hex driven screw that had sheared off. They can't even put real metal in the metal. My bet is the parts that are metal are powered metal that is baked, and it has to be baked just right. I can't fathom why you'd use it to make a screw.
Great video! Just a couple of minor points to consider; be cautious about using the lack of being magnetic as proof of a component not being metal, there are more than a couple of nonferrous metals that are used in manufacturing 3d printers, for example most nozzles are not magnetic, yet they are metal. Being metal does not imply iron based, which is magnetic. Finally, you don’t need to tell us you’ll be honest with us, it’s a meaningless statement. Your actions tell us that you’re honest.
I always thought that for many "All metal extruder" ment All metal HOTEND. The fact the some driving gears are not metal it's not that bad and probably makes sense in regard to heat transfer and dissipation in that area.
I do agree that all metal is not necessarily ideal either and actually the right balance is to have a single nylon or plastic gear somewhere in the main drive to take the force of something going wrong. However this is not even that. They are clear saying all metal where are the casing is plastic. The drive gears are plastic and the only medial things are bearings and the filament feed rollers.
@@MadRC Other than failure points, plastic/pom gears make sense where heat transfer is a factor. However I agree with you, this is Creality communications fail: an all metal extruder should be ALL METAL.
@@shadow7037932 Maybe it is, but we can't be sure. Knowing how this big young companies work, the marketing team probably can't tell an extruder from a chicken.
If you’re not printing tons of carbon filament probably none. If you intended to run carbon filaments though it daily then something with metal gearing would be better. However for general use it’s not a big issue. However it’s also not what they stated it has.
@@kompisworld yes you will be fine. My overall opinion on the printer is good if you have not seen my review please check it out. However I’m just very annoyed at this nonsense
I think this is a likely just sloppy translation. When I saw Creality advertise "all-metal extruder", I assumed they were referring to all-metal hot-end, since that's what matters for high-speed printing. Metal in the feed gearing is not something I would worry about or even particularly want - it's feeding plastic filament, not holding up a bridge - and the hobs should slip against the filament before enough pressure is exerted on the gears to damage them. I know ranting makes for better viewing figures on this site (and I'm only making things worse by commenting here!) but it's worth considering it 's most likely just sloppy translation in marketing material.
This is a bloody good video Creality has been caught with there pants down finally Fantastic job Ian all of the 3d printers i fix daily are all creality machines yes the price is right but they break down way more than any other 3d printer.
What a shame, it may explain the negative reviews an amazon in regard to Creality printer's especially the new K1 after incurring several month of use.
I don't know why they would have said "all metal extruder", maybe its a translation issue. I assume they meant its the new extruder that uses steel reinforcement instead of the old aluminium one. In the end you don't need or want all metal extruders anyway. Using all metal gears would need regular teardown of the mechanism to grease or lubricate the gears. That grease can contaminate the filament being pushed into the hotend. Metal gears will transfer more heat from the extruder stepper to the filament drive gears and soften the filament while its being pushed. There is a reason Bondtech uses the same system of Nylon and metal gears working together. It is self lubricating. Full metal gears are only useful in very high temperature printers that the K1C and other normal printers simply can't handle.
That's sad. I was planning an upgrade to a Bambu A1 with AMS until I watched your K1C review and was reconsidering my options. Now I'll just have to wait and see what happens with it.
I am not an expert here but we need to put down the torches and pitch forks for a moment and consider what might be the definition of an all metal hot end. I think the most common definition refers to the heat break material. Hot ends use PEEK or PFTE tubing (plastic) inside to separate the the cold end from the hot end. These can melt with high temperature filaments. All metal' hot ends use stainless steel or some other metal. I'm not saying the K1C's plastic drive gears are great but not sure they are related to what makes up metal hot end.
@@MadRC Good point, I wouldn't expect to find plastic gears in an all metal "extruder". I have had some cheap 3d printer in my time but have never seen plastic gears in the extruder. I wonder if someone in marketing interchanged extruder and hot end terminology but it's on them to fix the description or the hardware.
This video makes me more happy that i ordered a p1s ! so far everything i've seen from reviewers and what i have read is pretty much spot on. Prined my FIRST EVER benchie yesturday and it came out flawless! I'm a very happy camper so far!
my k1c was the same i contacted creailty they sent me a new all metal gear they said it was a manufacture fault install the wrong version all new K1C with all metal gears
I would be very interested in what their explanation is for this obvious false advertising.. and how they will be compensating customers that have bought the K1C. Especially when they also seemed to have "Ripped off" E3D for their hotend..
You seem surprised that Creality (and just about all other Chinese 3D printer manufactures) don't tell the truth about their machines (and most of their supporting hardware). Its all quite normal for them. "All Metal Extruder" in reality means just what you see - the gears that do the extruding ARE metal. The fact that the connecting gears are plastic is in their eyes immaterial.
All due respect Ian I guess it's not better than the p1s now is it lol. Typical creality 😂. I would be pretty upset too if i were you. I feel bad for the people who actually bought it thinking it is. You got duped and so did the people who bought it. Ive seen nothing but negative feedback on these machines. So was pretty suprised to see your review of it Signed Bambu fan boi and shill ;) 😊
The review and its outcome stands. The results I have had and the outcome was good. That’s not changes. However there is a an issue here with what’s being said in the marketing and what’s being delivered. This largely changes nothing for the actual results but that’s not to say I’m not going to highlight it when they lie. The review is correct in the sense it’s worded for me largely flawlessly and better than the K1. However this does absolutely change the facts of it in relation to the P1S as the metal gear set was an extra.
@@MadRC it's just kind of disheartening to see that they are lying to customers. Let's hope that they fix this issue because of what you just put out. I think that's super dirty for them to actually advertise it as all metal and it not being it. It's actually a good thing that you put them on blast because not a lot of people do and they just continue on. Granted yes the price point is very impressive but I've just seen a lot of people have nightmares with the k1 line hopefully they actually listen this time to people who put in the time and fix this issue. It wasn't a shot at you directly or anything it was just a shot at crealitys business practices. This is not the first time they pulled something like this and it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I would be very wary moving forward as you should be. Always appreciate what you do and being real
This is the crap that makes people get all "brand loyal" to certain manufactures. Whether we're talking drones, printers, goggles, or frankly any other tech, consistency counts for something.
I'm trying to decide if I should cancel my pre-order. Creality obviously lied here. In some other photos you can clearly see that they are showing metal gears. For this reason I really want to cancel but It also still seems like a good deal. The only other printer that seems like an equal would be the QIDI X-Plus 3 and it is still $100 more than the pre-order price on the K1C.
"All Metal Extruder" refer more like the Hotend to the extruder its self , plastic in extruders are very comon couse Nylon , pom or others works fine (i got a working titan for 5 years and works like new)
You dont want them to be metal, the reason being them from sort of polymer is to give it so it insulation against heat from the extruder motor or hotend.
I bet they say that the parts of the extruder that make contact with the filament is metal which still isnt the same as an all metal extruder. Bottom line is that when metal and plastic gears are working together , when a force is being applied, the metal is always going to win, which is a failure point . I am a content creator/reviewer also , even though Creality has never sent me anything, but I will say that I love my K1 Max and Ender 3 V3 KE, but Creality needs to be completely up front and stop bending the truth because its sounds better. Just do it right from the beginning and be honest. You will get more respect that way instead of adding to your enemies points.
Do you know if there's a piece of PTFE tubing that sits between the extruder and the hotend on the K1C like there is on the K1? As seen at this time stamp: ua-cam.com/video/DckwTNisQVU/v-deo.html
no, all metal extruder means two wheels touching the filment is assumed to be the extruder and they are metal. other extruders, there is plastic wheel opposite to a metal gear. not saying all metal gear.
Dang. I’ve only really used Creality and Elegoo. Elegoo was absolutely garbage, and I liked the Enders well enough. I’m really struggling to figure out where to go from here. I wan’t 4 matching printers, but I’m not sure what to go with anymore.
The Elegoo Mars2 was my first printer. I wanted to start with the cheapest. It's been fine, for the cost. But now I want to print with filament. Since I have a few years of knowledge and understanding of the FDM printer market, I feel like I can trust myself to spend a more substantial amount on higher quality. Bambu Labs is high on my list. I know that Bambu's firmware has been cracked, and from what I gather, Bambu is playing nice with the hackers. So far so good, and this should mean that at least for Bambu printers made before 2024, we might see some community inspired additions to the functionality of Bambu. If the team working on hacking the f/w keeps going, and Bambu wants to play, maybe even see some cool community inspired stuff in the coming years 🤞 If not Bambu, Qidi is a close second. Voron, or Peopoly are also on my list. We can save some money with some manufacturers, if we're willing to do more of the assembly process at home, so that is a good way to get a higher quality product, at a less expensive price. So far, most of my attention has been on Bambu, so if I decide to go with one of these other brands, I'll need to get into the details before pulling the trigger.
@@Inertia888 Personally I'd give the Sovol SV06 a try if you're on a budget. Otherwise, avoid Qidi as they also have no idea what they're doing. Best thing after that might end up being the A1 or A1 mini
I think this is a marketing paradox. There are parts where using plastic instead of metal such as nylon is better. Yet they are afraid to highlight because "allmetal" is a magic marketing word. These are the reason they might choise nylon gears instead of metal: Self lubrication, blocking heat transfer, weight reduction.
Not all metals are magnetic, many are not, and just calling something 'Plastic' is simplistic at best, as you must know from printing, there are may different plastics and some are very durable. It appears that the actual extruder gears are some sort of sintered material so technically they are correct. Show me any tool (even Milwaukee) or car part that's made of 100% 'metal' and I'll agree that we have been misled.
"All Metal Extruder" refer more like the Hotend to the extruder its self , plastic in extruders are very comon couse Nylon , pom or others works fine (i got a working titan for 5 years and works like new)but for HotEnds things are diferent , "All Metal" means yuo dont have nothing betewn yuor nozzle and heatbreak like a ptfe tube that get burn , thats it😊
Ah, hiya, I was in the chat on Adam's channel at the time. Yeah, this machine is extremely flawed. I'm very certain they're infringing on multiple patents with the design of the hotend as well. Creality haven't learned any lessons, clearly. I really wish people would stop buying this junk.
Creality is as Creality does. I'm sure if anyone really blieves that all metal hotend = all metal extruder should go shopping for both, you'll see the difference.
Creality MUST KNOW that people buying these types of devices will go straight to UA-cam after purchasing such a machine. They do so much harm to their reputation when they play these games. They will never get to Bambu and Prusa prestige levels with blatantly deceptive business practices.
Good for you ! What joke ! They lie so much in China ! Reminds me of..they have all metal gear servos ! But only one gear is metal lol I will buy a Bamboo !
what i see is the filament path gears ARE metal! I myself would not bitch at them for all the extruder parts and pieces not being metal. I think it is marketing thing that the extruder filament path is all metal and you are going off on a tangent expecting ALL the parts to be metal. The most important part is and that is the filament path! If however, gears on heavily used machines are failing then there is a problem.
Nah it shows a 3D rendering of gears not metal gears, the plastic gears are probably no issue and will be OK (been making and designing plastic gears for automotive applications for years) the true test would be, is to do a load test on tooth to tooth load, measure them over wires and run them on a double flank gear roll tester and review to AGMA specs, the essential components are metal ie those pieces that contact the abrasive substrate. I would say we are into the "all butter scotch-bread" argument - but agreed they should be more specific with their marketing, and I really do APPRECIATE your videos, but hey its China I think if we are expecting "truthfulness" in the selling price, then we will definitely be disappointed!
Update From Creality - Please see this video ua-cam.com/video/GzbwLE92g9A/v-deo.html
100% appreciate your animosity in this.. Really need to hold these companies accountable for their failures and force them to earn the reward of our purchase,... or suffer the loss of credibility.
When it comes to “mechanical accuracy” and eliminating “slop” the quality and reliability of components is very important. I would like to hear the reasoning behind creality’s design choices prior to manufacturing. If the marketing on the website doesn’t match what they’re selling I don’t need to be an engineer to know it’s not acceptable. 🧐 Good stuff Ian. 👍
My understanding of an all metal hot end is the filament path from the input entrance in the extruder to the nozzle tip via the heater chamber and tubuar guide way is all metal and that no teflon tube is in its path so as it can be heated safely to 300 c without any teflon giving off poisoness gas's from burning teflon, a plastic gear train does not have any limitations as to the performance of filament flow through all metal tubing but may degrade in teeth wear over a long production period
Yup. This.
With all metal they are talking about the hot end itself. And they are 100% correct it's a full metal hot end. If you extend that to the complete head they are wrong. But honestly - I was not expecting metal gears, because they are simply not needed. Only the pieces that grip the filament has to be of metal, because they have to deliver high pressures. All other gears are totally fine being of a rigid kind of plastic, because the can easy deliver the force that is needed. These gears will last for decades.
The hot end has to be full metal to be able to deliver the 300 degrees high temperature, and that is where using metal is critical. Non full metal hot ends have a PTFE tube going into the heater block, reducing the maximum temperature to about 240 degrees maximum. That would rule out a lot of filaments that need a higher temperature.
So yeah - You can complain the gears are not fully metal, but in practice it makes no difference if they are made from metal or hard plastic - At all...
It's even advantageous with plastic gears in many applications as they don't need lubricant and run more smoothly. If the tooth load is within acceptable limits then there just isn't any point in using metal gears.
@@motordude67 I like to add that the more metal you add to the head, the more the mass increases. That does not matter too much at low speeds, but it's a totally different story at high speed printing. Every bit of weight added to the head also means more inertia, meaning trouble at sharp edges (fast turning) that will get rounder and less sharp as a result. Also increased ringing will occur, spoiling smooth surfaces. In short - A bit of metal added looks like it does not matter much, but it definitely has it's effects at (very) high printing speeds.
Well a wake up call to open 🙄 these products before even reviewing it. Thank you for your honesty 🙏.
There goes Creality again… with the ender models they specified an ‘All Metal Hot end’ but they had PTFE tube down through the heat break right to the nozzle.
lol, this is the first reviewer I’ve seen in 1000’s of hours of videos learning about cameras and 3D printers, who actually has a backbone and isn’t a shill. They are all shills. We think they are simply “nice” people who don’t want to say mean things, but that isn’t the case. They are paid for their reviews; all of them. 99% of the videos you see about any gear you are interested in, were sent the product for free and most likely paid to review it. It’s fake and disgusting. This guy is real. I’m subscribing. Thank you for not gaslighting people like every other reviewer out there.🎉
Ian is always truthful and if he gets something wrong he admits it. I trust his word implicitly.
what u say is so true! not just to 3d printers but pretty much everything tech reviewed !
They don’t want to stop the free products and $$ they get
You seem like you need a snickers. 🤷
A magnet isn't going to work on all metals. nickel, titanium,.... Has to be a ferous metal for a magnet to work. I didnt really see a good picture of the gears to think they are plastic persay.
They are plastic.
@@MadRCAh. Yeah they probably referring to the gears that the filament goes through vs the gears that drive the Extruder. Like others. But agree the marketing doesn't line up to reality.
having only just seen one video of your prior to this, you just earned my respect as a viable reviewer and not a corporate shill :P. Much appreciated. Please keep us updated
Update coming now
@Mads Tech thanks for bringing this to our attention... That's why we trust you for our product information, you never give up!
Creality can't miss a chance to convince me my next printer will be anything other than a Creality printer.
Ever since Bamboo Labs came out with their printers, Creality became a concentrated shit tier manufacturer. I wouldn't trust them to sell me a toilet bowl brush.
@@TheTurbinatorthey were even before Bambu came out, choices were just limited.
@@TheTurbinator I wouldn't trust Bambu and their closed source system.
@@TheTurbinatorbambu is not much better. great shilling!
Finally you also realized this extruder and nozzle isn’t what was advertised and we can see on the images on their website. 😅 Theres also no replacement to this nozzle. The support tells they don’t know when or if their will variants of this proprietary nozzle in their shop. It’s a complete dealbreaker. I need 0.2 and 0.6 nozzles, too, or this printer will be useless for me.
Seriously?
So they think 1 nozzle in the printer for its entire lifetime? If they dont have spares on the webpage.. or the Prusa MK4 nozzles dont fit.. then I wont even unbox mine.. It will be returned
yeah, I was that close to order one, but checked for the spare parts: nothing. so I'm holding off for now... will maybe go with a bambu P1s in the coming weeks if Creality don't add spare parts....
Creality do this all the time the CR-10 v2 was advertised with an all metal hotend however it was sold with a PTFE liner inside the hotend.
I think this is just a disambiguation issue. “All metal extruder” in my experience refers to the heater / heatsink which means the extruder can run hotter and use engineering filaments. The gearing behind the drive wheel could be considered part of the overall extruder assembly…. So they should have said “all metal hot end” perhaps… although if you consider the drive mechanism to be part of the hot end, then you are sunk there too.
Welcome to the world of 3D printing. YES, Creality has been doing this for YEARS and they have earned their name as the most affordable, most upgraded after purchase machine in the market. Don't expect anything from them, other than the same cheap and mis information products with whatever parts they have laying around at the time.
Yeah. But at least you can go and get stuff from other for their printers. Not like BL. Been waiting for a replacement HT board for a month now. And my 1300 $ printer is just a paper weight. For that I could have had 2 or 3 k1s. Lesson learned.
I'm wondering how much a "full metal" extruder would do ? As long as the parts touching the filament is metal, which is the case, maybe that's all that matters ? Because that's the only part that needs to be solid metal with the abrasion of carbon filaments, right ? the gears are not worn much in the extrusion process ?
Well, this is why this channel is called Medtech. You always bring us the truth of products.
Thank you
Thanks for the update...this is a game changer for me! I have a Creality K1C sitting in their shopping cart right now...now it will still sit there while I revisit 3 other manufacturers:
1) Flash Forge: AD5M & AD5MP
2) Bambu Lab: P1P & P1S
3) QIDI: X-Smart 3
4) Creality: K1C (still in shopping cart)
Any feedback from anyone as to which is the best one to get....will be appreciated! :)
Nicely explained. Also, manufacturers should take some responsibility for their specs. Some values are not even close.
This is why I'm building a Voron 2.4 to replace my CR-10. The CR-10 printing the parts that go on the Voron is a lot like having it dig its own grave.
100% and AMEN! I sincerely appreciate you trying to help keep the manufacturers honest.
I'm very put off by Creality's last couple of moves, but they did try to stand behind their original K1s by replacing parts with newer designs. I hope they rectify this situation because if they don't I will be taking them off my list of consideration for a larger core XY printer.
Metal parts that are actually contacting abrasive CF filament are both sides metal....
When would you have any plastic rollers in a modern printer ?
‘All Metal’ means all metal ….. in other words not PLASTIC. Even the non metal extruders never have plastic parts in contact with the filament
Then they are the same as "non all metal" extruders... So what's the point?
I've had to take the K1 Max apart a few times and I think it looked the same.
Thanks, Ian!!! Looking forward to hear their explanation, because it's pretty weird.
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I never actually thought all metal actually meant fully made of metal. I know it sounds silly but I take it like the commonly referred to all metal hotends. It refers to the path the filament travels is all metal. Metal hobs and tension lever is all that's necessary. The plastic gears are probably better in that application anyhow. Curious where this all goes and what the outcome is.
Build a Voron Mad you will be the one that decide what to put in it
"How can we loose even more market share to Bambu Lab?"
Creality: "Hold my All-Metal* Extruder."
lol
Thank you I got a k1 just before Xmas & it's been nothing but junk . the extruder clicks now & then & its clean some times it doesn't extrude fully has misses & the hot end is total shit .. i have written to creality several time's & every time 0 help its always my setting are wrong or some thing i have done .. I am so close to just not bothering with it & go back to my NEVER fail ender 3 pro . if you can help me that would be great if not thanks any way . sorry for venting . chears Andrew
Bambu has never lied to me.
I currently have a Ender 3 S1 Pro and was looking to upgrade. Looks like Bambu labs is going to be next printer. Bye Creality!
Bambu has plastic gears unless you upgrade the part to the hardened. There are a few videos about this
@@HeathFoster1on the P series yes, the X1C is steel which ironically is what Creality were blatantly trying to rip off here.
@@lucagordon5770 Well more like the Mk4.
The k1 has been out for 8 months and the optional lidar they advertised is still not released.
Just checked the creality official website and the extruder has now had the wording changed from all metal extruder to just metal extruder.
The picture has also changed to show there is plastic gears with the part the feeds the filament though to be metal.
Also the animated video shown here of the extruder seems to have vanished.
I purchased my Ender 3 V3 KE as a bundle kit they had advertised on their website. I had preordered it 2-3 weeks before it had released. Part of the order showed up. I had to email them asking where my stuff was. They then proceeded to tell me that the bundle had changed and I wasn't getting the dry filament box that originally came with the bundle. They changed the website ad and everything. Luckily I had screenshots. Hours and days of arguments with them got me no where. My KE printed and worked so well until 2 weeks ago. The Y-Axis belt shredded, the X-Axis belt has been shredding since new and then my hotend blew up and filament literally wrapped around it up onto the heatsink. Go with Bambu Labs people!
The extruder itself is 100% all metal. The casing that goes around it is plastic. It's honestly the exact definition of the parts, it just not what we as consumers call the parts but technically Creality 100% told the truth. I'm not convinced that they shouldn't have been a little more forthcoming in their ads though.
I think Mads has a fair point calling this out. If you google "metal extruder" you find extruders which are made entirely of metal, including some sold by Creality. It's fair enough to expect the same given past and present definitions of "metal extruder" appear to include the casing and gears. My suspicion was they really meant to point out the replacement of the PTFE tube with a metal one, and the description got lost in translation initially and was never corrected. Which is not an excuse at all - if anyone should be able to get 3d printer terminology correct Creality should.
I am at the beginning of my 3d printing journey and very happy to see a review like this! After Bambu revolutionized the market last year, Creality had one job to show they had what it takes and failed. I will never own a Creality machine when there are so many high quality machines that perform amazingly well with high quality parts AS DESCRIBED, simple as that. Thank you for this video.
You’re lucky u waited because alot of people have been lured by Creality
Unfortunately this has become common with many manufacturers across main industries.
It's from a place were miss-direction is a way of life. Those that 'review' products don't point out what everyone knows (or should) but this crap started when the first products arrived and we have ignored it with excuses. What no 'reviewer' has every mentioned is the K1 Max has a 1,000 watt power supply while the K1 has a 350 watt supply or that the supported materials listed for K1, K1 Max and K1C are the same....
Check this out. When my extruder jammed(my fault) I opened it up and found a powdered metal hex driven screw that had sheared off. They can't even put real metal in the metal. My bet is the parts that are metal are powered metal that is baked, and it has to be baked just right. I can't fathom why you'd use it to make a screw.
Great video! Just a couple of minor points to consider; be cautious about using the lack of being magnetic as proof of a component not being metal, there are more than a couple of nonferrous metals that are used in manufacturing 3d printers, for example most nozzles are not magnetic, yet they are metal. Being metal does not imply iron based, which is magnetic. Finally, you don’t need to tell us you’ll be honest with us, it’s a meaningless statement. Your actions tell us that you’re honest.
I always thought that for many "All metal extruder" ment All metal HOTEND. The fact the some driving gears are not metal it's not that bad and probably makes sense in regard to heat transfer and dissipation in that area.
I do agree that all metal is not necessarily ideal either and actually the right balance is to have a single nylon or plastic gear somewhere in the main drive to take the force of something going wrong. However this is not even that. They are clear saying all metal where are the casing is plastic. The drive gears are plastic and the only medial things are bearings and the filament feed rollers.
@@MadRC Other than failure points, plastic/pom gears make sense where heat transfer is a factor. However I agree with you, this is Creality communications fail: an all metal extruder should be ALL METAL.
@@GiovanniEsposito5 It's not a communication failure. It's marketing deception.
@@shadow7037932 Maybe it is, but we can't be sure. Knowing how this big young companies work, the marketing team probably can't tell an extruder from a chicken.
@@shadow7037932 Maybe so, but we can't be sure. Marketing team of this companies can't tell an extruder from a chicken.
Thanks. I was looking for reviews and I found you. I have cleaned my shopping cart on Creality. I will go for P1S.
Wonderful video. Currently having issues with the extruder and now know why. Thought I paid as much as I did for “all metal extruder” lol
I think the "all metal part" is inside the heat block where the tubing does not contact the nozzle.
Hmm placed my order 2 days ago, my first ever 3d printer. A bit worried now even if I don't understand the difference.
If you’re not printing tons of carbon filament probably none. If you intended to run carbon filaments though it daily then something with metal gearing would be better. However for general use it’s not a big issue. However it’s also not what they stated it has.
@@MadRC Thanks. I´m sure it will be fine. I will print carbon once in a while but mostly PLA/ABS.
@@kompisworld yes you will be fine. My overall opinion on the printer is good if you have not seen my review please check it out. However I’m just very annoyed at this nonsense
@MadRC Great review, I saw it indeed. Thanks for the fast upload mate!
I think this is a likely just sloppy translation. When I saw Creality advertise "all-metal extruder", I assumed they were referring to all-metal hot-end, since that's what matters for high-speed printing. Metal in the feed gearing is not something I would worry about or even particularly want - it's feeding plastic filament, not holding up a bridge - and the hobs should slip against the filament before enough pressure is exerted on the gears to damage them. I know ranting makes for better viewing figures on this site (and I'm only making things worse by commenting here!) but it's worth considering it 's most likely just sloppy translation in marketing material.
BTW I think you should link Adam's video in your description, as a matter of courtesy.
This is a bloody good video Creality has been caught with there pants down finally Fantastic job Ian all of the 3d printers i fix daily are all creality machines yes the price is right but they break down way more than any other 3d printer.
Is it possible they got confused between all metal extruder vs all metal hotend?
What a shame, it may explain the negative reviews an amazon in regard to Creality printer's especially the new K1 after incurring several month of use.
I don't know why they would have said "all metal extruder", maybe its a translation issue. I assume they meant its the new extruder that uses steel reinforcement instead of the old aluminium one. In the end you don't need or want all metal extruders anyway. Using all metal gears would need regular teardown of the mechanism to grease or lubricate the gears. That grease can contaminate the filament being pushed into the hotend. Metal gears will transfer more heat from the extruder stepper to the filament drive gears and soften the filament while its being pushed.
There is a reason Bondtech uses the same system of Nylon and metal gears working together. It is self lubricating. Full metal gears are only useful in very high temperature printers that the K1C and other normal printers simply can't handle.
That's sad. I was planning an upgrade to a Bambu A1 with AMS until I watched your K1C review and was reconsidering my options. Now I'll just have to wait and see what happens with it.
I think that's a bit harsh, it's not a disaster
Maybe the publicity department and the production department don't work together
Creality being Creality, I should get mine on the 15th
I am not an expert here but we need to put down the torches and pitch forks for a moment and consider what might be the definition of an all metal hot end. I think the most common definition refers to the heat break material. Hot ends use PEEK or PFTE tubing (plastic) inside to separate the the cold end from the hot end. These can melt with high temperature filaments. All metal' hot ends use stainless steel or some other metal. I'm not saying the K1C's plastic drive gears are great but not sure they are related to what makes up metal hot end.
All metal hot end yes that’s a fair point. . However that’s not what they said. All metal extruder is what they said and what it’s not.
@@MadRC Good point, I wouldn't expect to find plastic gears in an all metal "extruder". I have had some cheap 3d printer in my time but have never seen plastic gears in the extruder. I wonder if someone in marketing interchanged extruder and hot end terminology but it's on them to fix the description or the hardware.
Can't wait to hear what creality has to say
Is creality the walksnail of 3d printing?
This video makes me more happy that i ordered a p1s ! so far everything i've seen from reviewers and what i have read is pretty much spot on. Prined my FIRST EVER benchie yesturday and it came out flawless! I'm a very happy camper so far!
Thank you for your great video. It just made me ditch the K1 and choose the Flashforge ADVENTURER 5M PRO instead.
my k1c was the same i contacted creailty they sent me a new all metal gear they said it was a manufacture fault install the wrong version all new K1C with all metal gears
I would be very interested in what their explanation is for this obvious false advertising.. and how they will be compensating customers that have bought the K1C.
Especially when they also seemed to have "Ripped off" E3D for their hotend..
Reality giving an explanation? Are you mad?
Owe you Ian ... was about to pull the trigger on Presale offer ... let's see how Creality gets out of this
You seem surprised that Creality (and just about all other Chinese 3D printer manufactures) don't tell the truth about their machines (and most of their supporting hardware). Its all quite normal for them. "All Metal Extruder" in reality means just what you see - the gears that do the extruding ARE metal. The fact that the connecting gears are plastic is in their eyes immaterial.
All due respect Ian I guess it's not better than the p1s now is it lol. Typical creality 😂. I would be pretty upset too if i were you. I feel bad for the people who actually bought it thinking it is. You got duped and so did the people who bought it. Ive seen nothing but negative feedback on these machines. So was pretty suprised to see your review of it
Signed
Bambu fan boi and shill ;) 😊
The review and its outcome stands. The results I have had and the outcome was good. That’s not changes. However there is a an issue here with what’s being said in the marketing and what’s being delivered. This largely changes nothing for the actual results but that’s not to say I’m not going to highlight it when they lie. The review is correct in the sense it’s worded for me largely flawlessly and better than the K1. However this does absolutely change the facts of it in relation to the P1S as the metal gear set was an extra.
@@MadRC it's just kind of disheartening to see that they are lying to customers. Let's hope that they fix this issue because of what you just put out. I think that's super dirty for them to actually advertise it as all metal and it not being it. It's actually a good thing that you put them on blast because not a lot of people do and they just continue on. Granted yes the price point is very impressive but I've just seen a lot of people have nightmares with the k1 line hopefully they actually listen this time to people who put in the time and fix this issue. It wasn't a shot at you directly or anything it was just a shot at crealitys business practices. This is not the first time they pulled something like this and it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I would be very wary moving forward as you should be. Always appreciate what you do and being real
I’m not drinking Creality Koolaid again!😂
This is the crap that makes people get all "brand loyal" to certain manufactures. Whether we're talking drones, printers, goggles, or frankly any other tech, consistency counts for something.
Did linus sponsor this video or something?
They had a new version of this for 2$ with camera I believe or at last for the K1 they did
Lovely, at least you are not scared to say the truth!
I'm trying to decide if I should cancel my pre-order. Creality obviously lied here. In some other photos you can clearly see that they are showing metal gears. For this reason I really want to cancel but It also still seems like a good deal. The only other printer that seems like an equal would be the QIDI X-Plus 3 and it is still $100 more than the pre-order price on the K1C.
It’s still a good printer. But just note the change now.
Just got a new K1c and it's plastic gears , and the extruder keeps jamming
Thanks ian.. your the man..
"All Metal Extruder" refer more like the Hotend to the extruder its self , plastic in extruders are very comon couse Nylon , pom or others works fine (i got a working titan for 5 years and works like new)
Yup, I read that site’s specs and features.
You dont want them to be metal, the reason being them from sort of polymer is to give it so it insulation against heat from the extruder motor or hotend.
I bet they say that the parts of the extruder that make contact with the filament is metal which still isnt the same as an all metal extruder. Bottom line is that when metal and plastic gears are working together , when a force is being applied, the metal is always going to win, which is a failure point . I am a content creator/reviewer also , even though Creality has never sent me anything, but I will say that I love my K1 Max and Ender 3 V3 KE, but Creality needs to be completely up front and stop bending the truth because its sounds better. Just do it right from the beginning and be honest. You will get more respect that way instead of adding to your enemies points.
Do you know if there's a piece of PTFE tubing that sits between the extruder and the hotend on the K1C like there is on the K1? As seen at this time stamp: ua-cam.com/video/DckwTNisQVU/v-deo.html
Creality cutting corners!? This is the first time I have ever heard that...
no, all metal extruder means two wheels touching the filment is assumed to be the extruder and they are metal. other extruders, there is plastic wheel opposite to a metal gear. not saying all metal gear.
To be fair they don't state "all metal gears" but "all metal extruder" so the two wheels, feeding the filament are metal.
There ain’t a printer that does not have metal filiment guide wheels.
Get’em! 💪🏼
Dang. I’ve only really used Creality and Elegoo. Elegoo was absolutely garbage, and I liked the Enders well enough. I’m really struggling to figure out where to go from here. I wan’t 4 matching printers, but I’m not sure what to go with anymore.
The Elegoo Mars2 was my first printer. I wanted to start with the cheapest. It's been fine, for the cost. But now I want to print with filament. Since I have a few years of knowledge and understanding of the FDM printer market, I feel like I can trust myself to spend a more substantial amount on higher quality.
Bambu Labs is high on my list.
I know that Bambu's firmware has been cracked, and from what I gather, Bambu is playing nice with the hackers. So far so good, and this should mean that at least for Bambu printers made before 2024, we might see some community inspired additions to the functionality of Bambu. If the team working on hacking the f/w keeps going, and Bambu wants to play, maybe even see some cool community inspired stuff in the coming years 🤞
If not Bambu, Qidi is a close second. Voron, or Peopoly are also on my list. We can save some money with some manufacturers, if we're willing to do more of the assembly process at home, so that is a good way to get a higher quality product, at a less expensive price. So far, most of my attention has been on Bambu, so if I decide to go with one of these other brands, I'll need to get into the details before pulling the trigger.
@@Inertia888 Personally I'd give the Sovol SV06 a try if you're on a budget. Otherwise, avoid Qidi as they also have no idea what they're doing. Best thing after that might end up being the A1 or A1 mini
I think this is a marketing paradox. There are parts where using plastic instead of metal such as nylon is better. Yet they are afraid to highlight because "allmetal" is a magic marketing word. These are the reason they might choise nylon gears instead of metal:
Self lubrication, blocking heat transfer, weight reduction.
Damn i was actually considering buying one. Now will never touch this company again
This Extruder seems to be the same as the last Versions of the normal K1 has mounted.......
Not all metals are magnetic, many are not, and just calling something 'Plastic' is simplistic at best, as you must know from printing, there are may different plastics and some are very durable. It appears that the actual extruder gears are some sort of sintered material so technically they are correct. Show me any tool (even Milwaukee) or car part that's made of 100% 'metal' and I'll agree that we have been misled.
"All Metal Extruder" refer more like the Hotend to the extruder its self , plastic in extruders are very comon couse Nylon , pom or others works fine (i got a working titan for 5 years and works like new)but for HotEnds things are diferent , "All Metal" means yuo dont have nothing betewn yuor nozzle and heatbreak like a ptfe tube that get burn , thats it😊
The gears in my month old K1C are different much sharper and clearly metal.
What happened to the government and consumer protection laws?
All metal extruder it isn't thats for sure. So glad I sent my K1 MAX back and replaced it with a X1C
Ah, hiya, I was in the chat on Adam's channel at the time. Yeah, this machine is extremely flawed. I'm very certain they're infringing on multiple patents with the design of the hotend as well. Creality haven't learned any lessons, clearly. I really wish people would stop buying this junk.
Creality is as Creality does. I'm sure if anyone really blieves that all metal hotend = all metal extruder should go shopping for both, you'll see the difference.
Ye gu job man
I think it is consens that metal gears arent as good as plastic ones... "all metal extruder" is indeed a bit misleading
Creality MUST KNOW that people buying these types of devices will go straight to UA-cam after purchasing such a machine. They do so much harm to their reputation when they play these games. They will never get to Bambu and Prusa prestige levels with blatantly deceptive business practices.
Good man.🎉🎉
Good for you ! What joke ! They lie so much in China ! Reminds me of..they have all metal gear servos ! But only one gear is metal lol I will buy a Bamboo !
well said!!!
I don't know how I can trust a review when they have a creaky chair
Agreed.
Full metal chair? Prove it
what i see is the filament path gears ARE metal! I myself would not bitch at them for all the extruder parts and pieces not being metal. I think it is marketing thing that the extruder filament path is all metal and you are going off on a tangent expecting ALL the parts to be metal. The most important part is and that is the filament path! If however, gears on heavily used machines are failing then there is a problem.
Nah it shows a 3D rendering of gears not metal gears, the plastic gears are probably no issue and will be OK (been making and designing plastic gears for automotive applications for years) the true test would be, is to do a load test on tooth to tooth load, measure them over wires and run them on a double flank gear roll tester and review to AGMA specs, the essential components are metal ie those pieces that contact the abrasive substrate. I would say we are into the "all butter scotch-bread" argument - but agreed they should be more specific with their marketing, and I really do APPRECIATE your videos, but hey its China I think if we are expecting "truthfulness" in the selling price, then we will definitely be disappointed!
I forgot to add - I think it is a good design TBH - I have my K1C
Love my Micro Swiss.