Does better DDR5 memory improve your gaming PC?
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- Over the past 25 years we have seen the transition from SDRAM (Synchronous Dynamic RAM) to DDR (Double Data Rate) SDRAM, and then to DDR2, DDR3 and DDR4 on a cadence of five year cycles. Currently we are using DDR5 on both AMD and Intel platforms at monumental speeds up to 8,000MT/second at 4,000MHz. That may sound impressive but the obvious question is how much attention we should pay to our RAM rather than, say, our CPU, motherboard, graphics card, SSD or cooling.
To address that question KitGuru has recently had conversations with Dan Ragland of Intel and Martijn Boonstra of AMD about the role that memory plays inside your PC. Once we had listened and learned we lined up a selection of DDR5 kits from Corsair and gave them a run with Intel Core i5-14600K and AMD Ryzen 7 7700X to find out exactly what is going on with the memory inside your PC.
00:00 Introduction
00:51 The Corsair Memory Kits
02:13 An Educational Crash course
03:39 Dan From Intel speaks to Leo
04:57 Martin from AMD speaks to Leo
06:48 Leo, 5 memory kits and two test systems
08:32 Manufacturers QVL lists - full story?
10:13 MHZ and Mega transfers ?
11:30 EXPO / XMP - or more?
13:22 Leos takes a closer look at the kits
16:26 Performance Test Results
18:17 Gaming Test Results
20:38 Leo’s Closing Thoughts
The Corsair DDR5 kits are:
£220 Vengeance RGB White 64GB (2x32GB) DDR5-5600 CL36 XMP
£310 Dominator Titanium First Edition 64GB (2x32GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 EXPO
£195 product Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5-7000 CL34 XMP
£130 Vengeance 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5-6800 CL40 XMP
£105 Vengeance 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5-5200 CL38 XMP
The test platforms are:
Intel Core i5-14600K on Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Master X
AMD Ryzen 7 7700X on Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
CPU Cooler: Corsair iCUE Link H150i AIO
SSD: Corsair MP600 Core XT Gen. 4 M.2 NVMe
Graphics: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4080 Gaming OC 16GB
Power supply: Corsair RM1000x Shift Gold
Power supply cables: Corsair Pro PSU Cable Kit Type 5
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not many channels could get AMD and Intel into interviews inside a video - that was excellent.
Amazing
Very interesting seeing the contrasting approaches intel and amd are taking towards this niche.
I think both Intel and AMD reps in this were very good. I mean they never spill the beans on upcoming products, but they both know their own platforms and clearly were trying to be as open as they were allowed. its not easy !
Only missing Nvidia and ARM.
My old 7800x3d couldn't post at 6000mhz with Expo guaranteed Qvl listed ram sticks. Through many tests, I concluded it's the CPU problem like the mem controller not the ram sticks. I replaced my CPU with AMD warranty. I heard there are a lot of CPUs with low capacity just above the threshold. For the guys wondering my issues, I listed what I experienced.
1. No post at 6000mhz, but can post lower clocks with lower latencies.
2.Even though it makes to the window, it's unstable like random rebooting and crash. It's very similar to symptoms with badly timed ram. So I ran the computer at the default speed of 4800mhz, but noticed random freezing persists usually after using 2 hours.
3. It fails all the ryzen master cpu performance enhancement. If I click on the apply button, then system tries to reboot, but it always ends up to no post and bios reset.
4. I'm not sure if it's related but the cpu temperatur on the overlay monitor provided by Radeon adrenaline is stuck at the random number and stopped working randomly. If it happens I usually expected crash or freezing would take place.
I got the new cpu and now it runs like silk. But the last one month struggling with the bad cpu was really nightmare.
that was REALLY educational Leo, some great results, had no idea.
Really thorough and great video here. Thanks for taking the time 🙏
Thanks for all the great testing. Hope you and the whole team have a great NYE and a fantastic 2024.
You too man. Nice to see some positivity
Happy New year guys
really good video kitguru thanks. I have still no idea about RAS and CAS, but I use XMP and just hope it all works. usually goes. thankfully. Went over to see buildzoid as I saw you give him a shout out. Went over my head.
as always great info. thanks and happy new year
It would be so much easier to compare memory latency if it were advertised in nanoseconds rather than cycles, so we could directly compare latency, independent of the speed we ran the memory at. Unfortunately, absolute CAS latency hasn't improved since the earliest days of DDR, and that doesn't fit the "newer is always better" narrative beloved of the industry.
Ordering the reviewed kits by absolute CAS latency, adding in some legacy specs for comparison we get:
CL16 @ 4266 = 7.5ns DDR4-4266
CL9 @ 2400 = 7.5ns DDR3-2400
CL4 @ 1066 = 7.5ns DDR2-1066
CL34 @ 7000 = 9.7ns DDR5-7000 XMP £195 Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2x16GB)
CL30 @ 6000 = 10ns DDR5-6000 EXPO £310 Dominator Titanium First Edition 64GB (2x32GB)
CL2 @ 400 = 10ns DDR-400
CL40 @ 6800 = 11.76ns DDR5-6800 XMP £130 Vengeance 32GB (2x16GB)
CL36 @ 5600 = 12.86ns DDR5-5600 XMP £220 Vengeance RGB White 64GB (2x32GB)
CL38 @ 5200 = 14.62ns DDR5-5200 XMP £105 Vengeance 32GB (2x16GB)
CL2 @ 100 = 20ns PC100
DDR5-6000 would need to be down at CL23 to get close to CL16@4266.
Why does the Vengeance RGB (12.86ns) do so well in so many tests? That would require more testing, but it wouldn't be the first time that CPU/cache issues resulted in 'slower' speeds being 'faster'.
It would certainly be interesting to see what running the Dominator sticks with CL28 @ 5600 (10ns) did to the benchmark results. This may be one of those situations where lower latency at a lower MT/s works better overall than higher latency at a higher bandwidth.
Yeah, I would have liked the first word latency to have been included in the video, but nice of you to do the work here, so I don't have to calculate it myself.
Once all of the exponents cancel @@TigonIII, the calculations are quite simple. For example 1/5.6*2*36=12.86ns for CL36 @ 5.6GT/s DDR.
Fascinating thanks for typing all that out
They should include that on the packaging...@@markbooth3066
I picked up a couple kits of GSkill CL14@4000 = 7.0ns last year, Waiting for the 14900ks to come out and going to pair them together for a low latency system
Learned a lot from this thanks so much Kitguru
It really is not surprising to have supposedly slower kits beating faster ones because sadly all we see from the kit is the primaries but other settings can increase much more performance. For example, I can easily beat a 6400 c32 kit that is using xmp with a tuned 6000 kit.
You need to do some testing with command rate and number of ranks vs locked memory timings then optimized memory clock speeds to what each setup (1T/2T, 1Rx8*2, 2Rx2*2, 2Rx8*4) can max out at. That would show much cleaner why some kits will perform better than others.
Good article, watched it again, just ordered a new Corsair Veageance kit for my new rig thanks leo
Absolutely fantastic video, glad I found you/this. Surprised you aren't bigger, happily subscribed! :D
Welcome aboard!
Happy New Year to you Leo and your team. Wish you all the best for 2024!
Leo, brilliant video, thank you and thanks for all your videos in 2023,. love the channel, keep it real man
16:33 I believe the test results of Ryzen 7700X are due to the halved RAM write speed in single chiplet models of Ryzen.
Great video Leo and team. Really interesting snippets. Would love to see a follow up later on this in more detail.
Great video. And love Buildzoid. Wouldn't have been able to get my 4 DIMMs running stably at XMP speed without his guides.
Same
Nice to see Leo complimenting him. He doesn’t get enough praise.
Always good to see a shout out for buildzoid.
He helped me too, i honestly struggle to understand half of what he says at times, but he has some good tips for boards and settings which can really work wonders.
I wantto see you do this same video but for music/audio production, since everyone always focuses on gaming pcs rather than single-core-oriented tasks like music production.
nice to see on the latest systems that the memory does play a bit of a gain if you get the right stuff.
And how you can waste a system using rubbish ram.
If you set the game to a low resolution, lower settings etc and still only get a few frames extra when the game alreday run with 150+ FPS. Pointless, since more money into the GPU is what matters.
one of your best videos this year leo, good way to end 2023, and hope 2024 isnt another 2023.
I like Leo's approach to things - calm, considered and *no* hysteronics - maybe it's just a Brit thing !
I agree
I learned a lot, Thank You!
hello there very informative video... but i would like to know , did you use xmp or manual overclocking for the intel cpu and higer frequncy ram kits....
Thanks for covering.
Thank you for the video! Good content. On my end i just built a new PC with an X670e Mag Tomahawk, 7800x3D and was able to install 64gb (2x 32gb) of 6400 MT at CL 32. Everything is running very smooth, and the infinity fabric clock is 1:1 using the Expo profile. I was worried by others comments that the clock would be affected to 2:1 and the memory would slow down. My RAM kit was XPG Lancer DDR5 RGB
I also just picked up the same kit, running at 6400MT, 2133 Fclk
Cpu - 7800x3d
Getting 61ns latency on aida 64 memory benchmark best ive got and tested multiple kits
Should add the memory profile used is the " Amd tweaked " this makes a huge difference over expo 1 and expo 2 profiles
Thats some result you got man. incredible
Thank you so much for making this video, i am gathering parts for a new high end build for gamin and have been racking my brain over lower Cl or higher M/T for DDR5 gaming.
When I was searching for an ideal kit on pcpartpicker, I started by setting the minimum speed to the maximum that my processor was rated stable for (5200mt for my 7600x), then the lowest latency within that range (28cl), then the highest speed at that latency (5600mt at the time; I believe there are 6000 cl28 kits available now). Worked out pretty well.
Good strategy 👍🏻
What parts did you go for man ?
@@Pyreleafcas latency is in clock cycles remember. 5600 cl28 is the exact same cas latency as 6000 cl30. As long as that CL figure is half of the first 2 digits of the memory's MT/s, they're the same. Ie 6400 would be cl32, 7200 cl36 etc.
@@Frozoken not *exactly* the same; if memory (heh) serves, latency can't really be adjusted up and down in the same way as speed. When I still used my old ddr5-6000 cl40 kit before a recent upgrade, I couldn't run it at the full 6000mt on my 7600x, so I had to settle for 5600mt, and I think the cl stayed at either 40 or dropped slightly to 38, so my fwl actually increased.
In other words, a 5600 cl28 kit may have the same fwl as a 7200 cl36, but if you can't use the full 7200mt, you're still stuck with the higher cl36.
Thanks for that nice refresher and some benchmarks. I usually go with Corsair for memory as I have never had a problem with it.
Looking to get a new system by the end of the year (2024) and to be honest that 5600 for intel may be the sweet spot for cost and performance.
Its cool to hate Corsair, but they do make a lot of good hardware too.
I bought CORSAIR VENGEANCE DDR5 RAM 96GB (2x48GB) 6400MHz CL32 Intel XMP and its runs perfect for my Asus Z790 Hero motherboard in XMP profile 2.
Hey quick question can i use the xmp dominator titanium kit on an am5 system?
With all due respect to you Leo, I have a sneaking suspicion motherboard sets loose any secondary and tertiary timings that don't fit into XMP when going for higher frequencies. If so, then it might be taking a look if those were at least minimized if you can't keep the same values which are set at 5600MT/s. Also I assume it might be worth finding other voltage sweetspots, I doubt auto settings allow for training tight values at higher speeds. Love the channel, don't mind me suspecting your testing methodology, those ARE realiatic scenarios for plug n play type of people, but for anyone who has knowledge to manually set overclocks and timings I think it lacks in info. Would love to see either BIOS inputs or at least zentimings and asrock timing software (or whatever is used on intel to check timings) screenshots.
I just wonder how many people are interested. Then again why not try I guess.
I assume he used the XMP/EXPO profiles thus the primary, secondary and tertiary timings have been set that way. I have no problem with that (manually set overclocks are not for ordinary users), but since those XMP/EXPO timings can be still not in line proportionally to one another, I agree that he should have displayed them. They may explain some of the unexpected results which right now are mystery.
@@sandornyemcsok4168 not all timings fit into XMP and those are set by the mobo, usually within JEDEC spec.
@@vilimtustanovski1270
Ok, but still I would be interested in to calculate the ratios between the (XMP/EXPO) timings of the kits. That has been the main thing for me.
i just got my Corsair Dominator platinum white 5600 cl36 today ! im waiting on my msi motherboard to finish my build cant wait !
Would love to see you go back and try this out with a X3D chip as it seems memory speeds have a much smaller impact on performance with them as the L3 cache provides that low latency memory required and picks up a lot of the slack from slower memory kits. Also think it would be good to see you do some longer burn in tests as you said your a fan of Buildzoid, he has pointed out that Intel does not remain stable on the higher memory settings starting around 7000 or so. Finally I've seen some 24g and 48g kits out there that are hitting 8000mt/s which if I understand correctly, due to how memory speeds are tied to the infinity fabric clock, should be much easier to get stable then anything from 6200 up to 8000 so that could be very informative for the consumer as well, especially as we see these speeds becoming more common.
Your sausage is indeed very long.
@@johnerikson2443 Thanks!!! It's a nickname I got while working in the Ironworkers Union as a Welder, it's a play on my last name Alcock.
Good idea hope they get time to follow up.
id like a follow up as well, gets my vote. Leo are you there?
ddr5 6000 would be ok or best to go with in my 7800x3d build?
or should go faster?
Very useful video. I want to add the importance of looking at native RAM speed rather than overclocked especially not everyone is looking to overclock.
I've seen some good memory sticks by GSkill, Team Group and Lexar where they offer native 5600 MHz speed with low CL values. This is much better approach than the remaining sticks sold with 4800 speed native and only promise higher speeds under the condition that the use will overclock.
When I was selecting memory for my 7700x I just cheated and used the exact same kit they supplied to the reviewers. No way they would give anything but the most optimal kit for that. That turned out to be CL30 6000, which matches up nicely with your charts for AMD.😲
I would be interested to see how the RAM effects 3d cache chips, my guess is that it will have little/no difference on performance.
yeah thats the way to buy memory, use what they send reviewers, likely the ideal kit isnt it.
Or just read a review...
I bought some G Skill Trident Z5 6000 CL30 for my 7600x rig, and it’s been great so far. I don’t get into the nitty gritty of trying to OC RAM. As long as it’s running at EXPO speeds, I’m happy
Great video!
I think it's more telling that XMP and EXPO settings aren't good enough. You have to tune the timings to see a significant uplift.
Wonder how many would know how to do that however
@@haremofprocessors6954 The audience who follow buildzoid would, but most people just hit the BIOS settings default and leave it at that. I can understand why. a lot of it makes little sense to most people.
correct, and this lack of tuning/setup is the reason so many people fall into the ryzen is good trap
a tuned intel setup is so far ahead its not even funny
big thank you!!!
did a smol upgrade, switched to a MSI Z690 Pro-A Wifi DDR5 mobo from the ddr4, installed G.skill cl32 6400m/t 32gb ddr5 ram, wasnt a major upgrade but did notice a difference in performance :) running a i5-13600k+RTX4080
How do you check what the default speed is of a memory kit?
I had no issues at all running Expo with a 48GB 6600 kit from G Skil on a B650 Aorus board with a 7800x3d
Gracias Leo 💪
*Thank you!* Have a safe and prosperous 2024! 👍🏻🙏🏻🏆
Hi. I´m building a "white PC". I chose the Ryzen7 7800X3D processor and the Asus ROG Strix B650E-A Gaming WiFi Motherboard.
I Found the DDR5 Corsair Dominator Titanium in white, but unfortunatly only XMP. I could by the expo model but they only exist in grey.
What would happen if i run the White XMP version on my AM5 setup? Will it still be compatible or will i run into some issues?
Maybe i didnt hear but what motherboard was this tested on intel and am5. How can 13ns be equivalent to 10ns ram. I get 6000cl30 will be close to 7000cl34 within quarter Ns. But how can a 13ns kit keep on par with a 9.7ns kit. Something else is going on. Or am i somehow not understanding latancy over mts.
The AMD motherboard is Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master with BIOS F20a and AGESA 1.1.0.1 while Intel was used on Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Master X with BIOS F5g
Leo
What about Kingston fury renegade 64GB? Are they worth the price tag for high end gaming and AI?
Amazingly explained
Not all games relay as heavily on L3 Cache, so in these scenarios faster / lower latency memory is beneficial for the R7 7800X3D.
I’m running 2X16GB 6000MT/s CL28 36 28 30 w/ tight subs FCLK 2200.
VDD: 1.43v VDDQ/IO: 1.30v VSOC: 1.15v
GDM / Power Down / MCR: Disabled.
Aida64 Latency: 59.1 NS vs. 68 NS EXPO.
Also, at BCLK 105 / LLC: 4 for total stability. Decent boost for single core / modest boost all core.
Gaming / general use performance is improved.
I'm looking at setting up an i7-10700 system as a gaming system and gettin a new GPU for it but I was wondering if I should upgrade the motherboard and CPU as well. Modern CPUs seem to take up so much power and I'd probably have to upgrade the PSU (550 watts) as well which means that this would be an expensive project. Updating the MB would also mean replacing the RAM as I think that I have DDR4-2666 which is probably obsolete now. I originally set up the system to run cool and quiet and it does do that but overall performance is quite far behind Gen 12, 13, 14 Intel chips. Great video showing performance differences between various speeds. I have too many choices now to look at.
10700 is basically 2015 Skylake IPC, you should use Alder Lake as the minimum, 40% faster IPC.
From what I've seen in various tests, the memory seems to only make a worthwhile difference at lower resolutions where you're more likely to be CPU limited. I was also told that CAS latency appears to matter less with DDR5 than DDR4 and 3.
You got any benefits , Custom CAS timing on DDR 5 ? Faster than XMP ?
Need more frames, RTX 4090, faster DDR works !
@@lucasrem Yeah, specifically the tests I saw were for DDR5 6000MT sticks with CL30-36-36-96 vs CL36-48-48-96. The difference was minimal, with the biggest gains coming on Intel platforms with higher MT sticks. And even then it wasn't that much.
@@lucasremcheckout buildzoids custom ram timings, you'll get like +10% fps in frame time consistently when cpu bottlenecked vs xmp.
you guys make the best videos
Hardware Unboxed's video on DDR5 scaling are way more extensive and a lot more applications are benchmarked. To those who want to know more I recommend you go there. This video tells very little story.
Hardware Unboxed's video is heavily flawed. They don't list several brands and timings.
@@saricubra2867 They do. What were you saying? They even took Buildzoid's DDR5 timing to use it as a performance benchmark. Although they do specify the brand, who cares about the brand anyway? The chip inside the RAM are the one that mattered, brand doesn't. as long as it's Hynix A die it'll all perform the same with the same timing & frequency potential.
Hey could you please do a review of the new Sihoo Doro S100?
good job
Does it make a difference to performance if the memory is error correcting or not?
Typo in at least one chart, which lists the 7000 set as being CL40, vs. the (apparent) real figure of CL30.
We must assume that the secondary/tertiary timings of the 6000 kit are considerably better, since that kit does better on the gaming front. (It should be noted however that the avg frame rate variations were quite likely within variance, and only the 1% figures were noticeably different - and even _those_ may be within the variance.)
Well spotted - the text on the 7-Zip chart says CL40 for Dominator Platinum RGB DDR5-7000 where the correct figure (as per the other charts) is CL34. And yes, agreed, it's the lows rather than the averages that make the most interesting reading. That DDR5-7000 kit is here
www.corsair.com/eu/en/p/memory/cmt32gx5m2x7000c34/dominator-platinum-rgb-32gb-2x16gb-ddr5-dram-7000mhz-c34-memory-kit-black-cmt32gx5m2x7000c34
I would have liked to have seen DDR4, say 4000c15 in this line up for the Intel part! Many people are still on DDR4.
Not much use comparing without the previous gen.
You’ll only start to see them trade blows at 6000+ kits. Anything less than 6000 💀
i got the 7700 and run at 6000 right now, but i have been running the default at 4800 for a period because of stability issues and it doesn't actually feel too bad, at least in the games that i played at that time. but it is for sure a bit slower.
Use latest BIOS, its fixed RAM stability
I'm looking for new ram, this video helped thanks.
What did you buy? or are you still thinking about it
Manual tunned xmp profiles are vasty superior to plain xmp and even more so than stock
I have 7800x3d with cl36 36 36 96
Should i upgrade for cl30 36 36 96?
Martin looks like he's passed the bar exam for law school multiple times for other people..
Leo - you’re an absolute boss man. Happy new year.
I have a ryzen 7600. Am I understanding this correctly. A 13600k is actually better for gaming with the right memory?
I bought 6000 CL30, but I looks like intel actually benefits more from gaming.
looks like it could be yes if you get the best high end memory for it. AMD seem hindered a bit by memory at times. always a lot more complicated with AMD boards and settings. Most intel boards ive had you just hit XMP and it 'works'. Then again im no expert and could just be an idiot who doesnt know how AMD works (been a while since I used AMD boards)
@@canarychrome7012 I just bought the 7600 and literally just updated the bios and clicked enable EXPO.
Worked fine. Also it’s so stupidly fast that it won’t bottle neck my GPU for a while. I’m more just curious to see intel edging the lead with the 13600k
I appreciate the hard work as I’m sure the benchmarking took forever, but a lot of this data is useless unfortunately and certainly not definitive by any means. Testing different speeds with RAM timings all over the place makes no sense for buyers/viewers.
For example you can get a 5600MHz *CL28* 16x2 kit for $103 on Newegg. Yet you’re testing a 5600MHz CL36, which for a 16x2 kit is $88 on Newegg. That latency makes a massive difference on the AMD side of things (lesser so for Intel) as seen on LTT’s and Hardware Unboxed’s video. The extra $15 is well worth it and matches the more expensive 6000MHz CL30 kits.
Really the only definitive and ultimately useful test would be testing 16GB x 2 kits (since it’ll be the most common setup for buyers) and picking the lowest latency kit at every speed. I realize this would be an expensive endeavor, you’re probably looking at $2000+ in memory alone, let alone the sheer man hours. Though you could skip basically anything below 5600MHz as both Intel and Ryzen performance has a significant drop off regardless of latency at anything below 5600MHz
Curious as to the synthetic test selection, none of those cares any memory bandwidth, latency, or timing. Or in AIDA’s case, comparing apples to oranges
7800X3D owners were already aware that going with more expensive memory makes absolutely No Difference
That's because of the large amount v-cache. The CPU can shuffle more data through it's cache without the need to load it into system ram.
that's a side effect of V-Cache, not an indication of whether faster memory is worth it or not.
take a look at AM4 CPUs, they were well known to love fast, low latency RAM, but the 5800X3D was an exception in that RAM choice didn't affect it all that much compared to regular AMD CPUs.
That is just untrue. I saw up to 14% better performance in games going from 6000CL30 Expo settings to manually tuned 6200 MT/s memory with my 7800X3D. Most media do not test memory performance with actually overclocked memory, almost everyone is using the shit Expo/xmp profiles that come with the DDR5 kits. Most kits have terrible timings. Also, single-CCD Ryzen chips, like the 7800X3D are limited by the infinity fabric clock and cannot fully utilize the bandwidth that even DDR5 6000 offers, without overclocking the infinity fabric. With better chips you can get 10% more bandwidth from the memory without even touching the memory itself, just with an fclk overclock. This becomes apperant in open world games where memory bandwidth is more important than latency. Reduce the latency on the memory and you get more efficient use on the bandwidth available, and you get higher performance in games as well. Although with the 7800X3D, overclocking the cache itself helps in all gaming workloads just as much as memory OC.
I hope so. Plenty of ppl talking about it it’s not a secret…
I wish to see a benchmark for V-3D. Is Amd, any chance or where I can find good test?
Amazing you got Intel and AMD in this video - thats amazing, some good input too from them, not the usual nonsense.
Well, only a bit. A bit of 'Corporate BS' still comes through !
I thought it was good. Sure they have to walk a line but dan at intel definitely seems passionate
Leo out there looking like the Final Boss on a Dungeon Crawler from the late 90's. Keep doing your thing you scary SOB.
Your test bench looks like its going to topple over
Should I get Corsair vengeance 6000mhz CL36 or G Skill flare X / adata / other brand kits with 6000 mhz but CL30 ?
Here they retail for pretty much the same ( 15 dollar difference at most )
I heard anything over 6000 mhz and under cl32 is Hynix and it’s supposed to be better but here’s the catch
In my country only corsair has a reputable RMA service meanwhile other brands except Kingston ( not available above 5600 CL4 ) are worse
What is your platform? Intel or AMD? And will you just simply set the XMP or EXPO profile or will you tighten the timings manually?
@@janoskiss8040 I’m lookin to get into AM5 with the 7600X
@@sravans149
sorry for the late reply, I hope it is not too late. It is not an easy answer. Actually the CAS latency does not matter much (both on Intel and AMD), but the others (tRCD, tRP, tRAS, the 3 numbers you can find usually after the CAS) do (more on AMD than on Intel).
And in DDR4 the tRP was what really indicated which chip was in the kit (whether it was Samsung B-die or not). Let's assume it has not changed in AM5.
Corsair, for example, sells 6000 MT/s Vengeance kits at CL30 (30-36-36-76) and CL36 (36-36-36-76), but the tRCD, tRP, tRAS are the same of those as you can see. Based on these specs the real life performance of the 2 kits have to be very close thus you may not have to spend extra on the CL30 kit.
G.Skill also sells 6000 MT/s kits, for example one at CL30 (30-38-38-96) and another at CL 36 (36-36-36-96). Based on these specs the CL 36 kit looks to be the better choice. I do not know if there is any difference between the Flare X and Trident Z5 Neo with the same specs (for example 30-38-38-96) except the heat spreader.
And there is one more twist in case of AMD: the secondary and tertiary timings are also having more impact on performance than on Intel. But the manufacturers do not publish those timings, you can only find them on the internet. For example HArdware Unboxed made a video about AM5 RAM scaling and in that video he used various kits. The Trident Z5 Neo 30-38-38-96 is the safest bet from that. Maybe you can risk the cheaper Flare X with the same specs. I assume your issue with Corsair is their usually higher price.
@@janoskiss8040 I guess im gonna get the G skill kit since Corsair only sells CL36 in my country for reasonable prices or I’d have to spend 40-50% more to get the platinum RAM and I’m better off saving a bit of money than choose a RAM just for the RMA factor
4x8gb/2x16gb@3200 ddr4 is already worth money for performance since 3200 ddr4 still can be OC to higher value. but its all depends on CPU which DDR it support like am5 ryzen it only support ddr5.
How does Kingston memory stack up against Corsair?
Interesting results with gaming it really looks like Ryzen benefits from faster ram while Intel sort of tops out.
It's the same for DDR4. AMD's core design seems a lot more sensitive to memory speeds.
Yeah it’s an interesting video. Some results are not what i would expect
Intel's Alder Lake chips and similar ones (13th and 14th gen) use Ring Bus design and are monolithic, the IPC is higher and they can communicate better with RAM.
Interesting review. Corsair’s RAM looks great.
why is the FPS practically no difference between 1080p and 2k res during gaming? that makes no sense...
was it fps capped or? Vsync? or other reason???
I learned a ton from this video.
Good to hear !
What matters more is 2 dimm slots rather than 4. That makes the more difference you can easily get 7600mhz/mt with 2 slots
when you have 15 14900k's to handselect.
Not really, you would have to do your voltages abd timmings manually as XMP might not work properly out the gate. But all 2 dimms mobos and every 13/14900K will do 7600Mhz quite easy without breaking a sweat @MGK195
@@alexc5564 "But all 2 dimms mobos and every 13/14900K will do 7600Mhz quite easy without breaking a sweat"
buildzoid and basically everyone with experience in memory overclocking will highly disagree with that statement.
just running y-cruncher for 30 minutes without errors is already Apex territory.
igor's lab has binning results for ~600 CPUs and 7600 was mostly the absolute peak with a few golden samples going beyond that.
2 dimm motherboard's will ALWAYS overclock ram better than 4 dimm motherboard's! That's just a fact
@@toonnut1 and nobody ever denied that.
Leo, is 5600 cl28 as fast as 6000 CL36... Is 5600 CL30 faster than 6000cl36? This video is good but timing vs Mhz is what I'd love to see test results.
Quicker latency but lower speed which is precisely what Dan Ragland talks about. Which works best depends on your use case.
Leo
I have vengeance 5600 cas 36 with my 13700kf. It was somewhat affordable when i bought it at intel 13th gen launch. It appears, going by your charts that I'd not really see any benefit if I went for the "best" ddr5 at the moment. My gaming is 4k and 4090. Thanks for your video.
For most part yes... but It does depends on the game engine and how it is used. Starfield sees around 7.8% increase in average FPS in CPU limited situation on a 13900K at 5.5 GHZ and DDR5 going from 5600 MT/s to 7200 MT/s with a 4090 as the graphics card. Also Raytracing often sees 10% faster FPS from faster memory going from 5600 MT/s to 7200 MT/s as the BVH structures have to be built and traversed which is CPU and memory limited, this is visible in e.g in Cyberpunk 2077 as soon as you turn on raytracing. So in some titles memory speed is not noticeable but for some titles you are leaving little bit on the table at 5600 MT/s.
I did this extensive testing for Starfield (CPU Clock, Memory clock, Ecores on, Ecores off) for the DDR memory thread for AHOC so i am saying this from first hand experience ;-)
@@micb3rd can you confirm what resolution you were using? I had in mind that due to being on 4k it's less likely I'd see CPU limited frames? I'm also limited to 120hz as it's an OLED LG TV I'm using as my primary. Thanks for the detailed response. What's interesting is when I look at 7000mhz ram the price is basically the same as the 5600mhz or MT/s but that wasn't the case that I remember when 13th gen launched.
you would see about 10-40% depending on game if you had better memory and tuned it properly
@@GoldenEagle0007 in 4k resolution? That kinda goes against everything I've seen on videos. Have you got a link to any data where 4k sees a big improvement in game? Thx
@@stevenross-watt8640 ah in 4k or even 1440p high quality there will be no difference to very little
How long before ddr4 memory will be 50% slower than ddr5?
The CPU and Motherboard specifications will lead you to the right type of memory sticks. After doing some research I found out my setup needed 2x16 instead of 2x32. Low-end top performance instead of high-end low preference. Those little differences will get your system to POST or brick
Good sir I'm thinking of buying a i9 14900k on a Asus Dark Hero. What memories would you recommend? I'm thinking of the "TeamGroup T-Force Xtreem 48GB DDR5 ODECC CL38 8000MHz" ones.
I've always held that you're usually best off picking a decent memory manufacturer, then buying one step up from their most budget offering. You're usually paying another $5-10 and getting memory that will be 'fast enough' in the vast majority of cases, without wasting hideous amounts of money on DDR-8000 that would be far better put towards a better GPU, CPU, cooling, or almost anything else.
I love the Intel guy trying not to loose his job as he talks about the guy who repeatedly has said Intels latest memory controllers are sh!t and he doesn't even want to try overclocking on Intel anymore until they correct it. I'm sure they are both equally frustrated by this, he just can't say that in a interview lol.
Worst thing ever trying to say something thats on the record that could seriously affect your home life!
@@philipjfry628 yeah, the intel guy looked very relaxed, the AMD guy was definitely in a more PR style delivery, but I am sure they know what not to talk about. I wonder if Kitguru had to cut parts of the dialogue under an NDA and get approval before this went live.
Yeah the Intel guy seemed like a genuine enthusiast while the AMD guy was a bit of a PR type @@geofftatesmate7748
if you were to compare eg 5 set of 7000, 5 6000, 5 5800 etc i feel like they would rank differently to how you might think...
the latencies are the killer too
Get anything over 6800+ with a sub 55ns latency will absolutely smoke ddr4 and everything else
A nice technical video on DDR5 RAM just before new years eve nonsense kicks off. Thanks guys.
lol, yeah I was thinking the same, new years eve, what a waste of time
Its 2024 now so everything you bought last year is now obsolete and you need to start thinking about buying everything again.
I have 7600mts stable. I wish i purchased 8000mts now. These new Gigabyte boards are amazing for ram stability.
I'll stay on 12700K and the $60 ddr4 32gb Corsair LPX 3600 C16 I scored off ebay.
On AMD your 6000mhz kit might be running at 1:1/2 ratio. Change it in bios .
4200mhz c14 gear1 dual rank ddr4 gained me 20-30% fps in games that are hard on memory. Games like WZ, 2042, pubg.
Maybe in a couple years there will be some reasonable priced mobo's and some ddr5 kits(best binned) that can push 8000+mhz c30ish speeds
Not really until 8700G, games are loaded into gpu's gddr6
That's why I built another am4 pc for a 6700xt last month, am5 is only worth it for productivity and the incoming apus for budget/low power gaming
looks like the memory helps in some games, in the video.
@@haremofprocessors6954 yeah some interesting results.
@@haremofprocessors6954 the timings do much more than ram speed, and endgame ddr4 has great latency. This review is basically useless tbh, it doesn't compare anything interesting.
That’s not why AMD systems can now support higher speeds, there was an agesa update from AMD that significantly expanded memory compatibility on AM5 … you will also need to switch on high speed or low latency mode in bios. Also, the Z790 refreshed motherboards from all manufacturers have QVL’s that include blatant lies … none of those 4-dimm motherboards can run 8000+ stable.
You need to update your bios on your AMD motherboards and update the chipset drivers … the higher speed memory will then work.
I get scared with the advanced settings for memory in the bios. Feels safer just to leave everything at "auto". An unstable system is just a nightmare.
XMP is useful for all that. I dont tinker much with bios settings anymore, I used to play with RAS and CAS all the time. now I just leave it with the settings in the BIOS. sad, but true.
Especially if any improvements may be only a fraction of a percent after loads of instability and testing just to get the magic numbers!
The hours spent tweaking a system for the odd percent - if you're lucky - is time better spent working to buy better components in the first place imho.
But then, some people like playing around in the BIOS - and that's fine - whatever floats your boat !
This is making me wish I got the 14600k bundle instead of the 7800x3d.
Your testing shows that the 5600 has more aggressive timings pushing it to out perform the 6000 and 7000. But you never compare the timing of the separate kits of memory.
1:30 yes i can from the number i see on the box that you aren't covering. lol
Still rocking DDR4 here and it's perfectly good enough for good quality gaming IMO
plenty of life left in DDR4, we agree.
The problem I……..as a memory tuner has………is the total lack of information on the sticks. At least tell me what the ic’s are.
It depends..
Some CPU run faster with faster memory..
But that only matters if the CPU is the rate limiting factor..
L2Cache is probably the most important factor in CPU speed. That is, enough L2 Cache.
Always write down the values so you can refer to them when you clear cmos or struggles are real
I take it you speak from experience !
The only time I have seen a significant increase honestly? Is with Ryzen G series cpu's and integrated graphics.