Sailboat Bottom Paint that could CO$T you - Ep 251 - Lady K Sailing
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- This week we talk about VC17 bottom paint being discontinued and sailboats that use it may need to make some tough decisions. Ablative is one alternative but could mean a whole boat bottom job or at least a lot of sanding and painting your boats hull. And some bottom antifouling paint is completely toxic for the environment and you!
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VC-17 with Biolux was discontinued and there was a shortage for a short while, but Interlux came out with a replacement ingredient for Biolux. VC-17 continues to be available, it is not discontinued.
VC 17m Extra with Biolux is discontinued. VC 17m is still available.
Not only is it still available the new formula is actually better IMO. When my boat was hauled in October the yard workers commented it was the cleanest bottom they had seen so far. I had literally done zero cleaning during the season (Great Lakes sailing). This video needs to be revised with an apology to Interlux.
@@tommyc9237 This has happened before with Tim and his videos. Not sure if it’s a click-bait strategy or just sloppy/lazy research.
Hydro coat works well for me but I pull my boat every season, just hose off in the fall and recoat every two years. Works well in Long Island sound.
It is.
When you put Ablative paint on the bottom of your boat it becomes a giant jaw breaker.. So as you're under way The movement of the water across the bottom of your boat acts like a giant tongue and licks the growth and a thin layerr of the paint off... Hence: Ablative... So with that being said it is very beneficial to get some regular use out of your boat get it moving across the water helps keep the bottom healthy... Note: Avoid heavy diver scrubing..
As I understand it ablative antifoul also has the environmental issue of the biocides that it contains to inhibit growth that ends up in the ocean.
What about Coppercoat?
Again, as I understand it Coppercoat is an epoxy paint with enough pure copper (2kg / litre) to actively deter marine growth and should last 10+ years. I have no affiliation but have purchased enough for my 33" sailboat and am waiting for a weather window to apply.
Ablative paint doesn’t fall off-it wears off. Some comes off when the bottom is cleaned (usually once a month by a diver who scrubs off any growth to expose a new surface to inhibit growth) if the boat is kept in warm salt water. It is also his job to see that your zinc is still active or to change it if it has worn to 50% of it’s original size. If you have bald spots on your bottom, there was either not enough paint applied, a very long time since the boat was hauled and it’s been scrubbed an awful lot or poor paint adhesion. A bald spot would be covered in barnacles in short order in most salt water locations.
Dear Lady K Sailing, here in the US Interlux has offered a NEW formulation for VC-17M which is currently available at Westmarine as far as I can tell. It was gone for the most part of a year but is back in circulation now. Is this not your understanding? I really don't want to strip my hull........again!
I have been using VC17 for the last 20 years, There is nothing better. It goes on thin, no buildup. clean the bottom and put another coat on it. no sanding required unless you have imperfections that need to be repaired. It will totally suck to have to replace it with something else as you mentioned. It is pricy but the easy of use is worth it.
Thanks so much for the tutorial… Really well presented and I learned a lot
A rep from Interlux confirmed by email to me this morning that VC-17 will be discontinued in Canada and unavailable in 2024, but that will not affect the US VC-17 availability. Sorry for our friends up North.
Thank you.
Thanks again!
Great video
Surfboard wax goes on top of the board for grip.
I was going to say it if you didn’t haha
Thank you this is a good topic for video
Good information
Hi- Luv your videos! I run with alblative I haul each season and put a light coat on. It has worked great! I have an older boat with an epoxy bottom. Cheers, Eautha
Arrg! I just put VC17 on for the first time last year. Growth on Lake Ontario was minimal so I love it. I hope they find a replacement before spring. Thanks for the heads up.
The replacement for VC17 should be available in Canada before too long. Its currently available in the US as of last fall. I'll gladly get some and meet you in Amherstberg it you want some. Lol
Ablative paint has another problem. When it falls off your boat at the marina, it just stays under the boat and builds up the pollution level in the marina. This really shouldn’t be ignored.
I was thinking the same thing.
@@terryroth9707if your paint is falling off, shedding paint like a dog sheds hair, get to a boatyard fast.
Easier to clean up a Marina than the whole ocean.
Not saying ablative is an overall good solution, but it doesn't "fall off" a stationary boat. It wears off by friction from the boat moving thru the water.
@@svechappe6075 it wears off power boats and maybe super fast sailboats because of the speed they go through the water, but not cruising sailboats.
VC 17 is still available. If it was discontinued you can wipe it off with acetone sand the hull and clean it again and barrier coat before the next paint. Not a hard project, also the bottom of your boat is always a maintenance item no matter what paint you use. It not a big news flash, stop trying to scare people new to sailing and boat maintenance. Drywall sandpaper and a stick makes fast work of ablative.
im running rustoleum bottom paint non ablative and it has been amazing
Vc17 is readily available again. The changed it slightly and there was a short term shortage as they worked through the old stock.
Very timely video. Just bought a C&C 29 with VC17 bottom paint.
I'm going to let it wear off -- while praying a replacement to VC17 is found.
A few years ago on a little Island in the S Pacific a few cruisers got together & bought a 44 Gal drum of old Navy Antifoul > 5 years later it needed replacing , Even then it wasnt to bad .
I currently use Micron CSC on my Cal 2-46 up in the PNW. Boat stays in the water. I have a couple coats of red applied as an indicator layer and a couple coats of blue on top. Product choice was made by the previous owner. so far I've been happy with it and the top coats lasted about 2 years.
Cheers.
On the other hand, when we lived on the Great lakes, we used VC17 for many years. It was a fantastic bottom paint for fresh water. Sorry to see it go. But we are in hot salt water now, so we use different paint. We use top quality stuff. But to us in the tropics, good bottom paint does not keep your bottom clean, it just makes your bottom cleanable. We clean it once a month.
With any new boat I have always gone down to the gellcoat then painted in the following order. Barrier coat/ hard coat/ 2 coats of ablative. At haul out power wash, scuff, 1 coat of ablative. Did this for over 15 years, never an issue. When I say scuff I don’t mean sand. I have never sanded my boat
If you're sanding down to Gel Coat even through the Gel Coat in some places it is highly recommended that you put a couple 2 3 Coats of a good apoxy before you put your bottom paint on...
wow Sailor grate episode
My Tartan 34c has Nautical Union Jack antifouling paint on it currently. Seems to be still available... pheeew!
Unfortunately here in Southwest US it is require by law, to have tenting and filtered ventilation to sand ablative paint in all our boat yards. It adds tremendous costs but does keep our boatyards & marinas clean. VC17 been unavailable for a while here.
LADY K
Maybe it is time to edit this video to bring it into reality. VC 17 is not gone, only one kind of VC 17 is discontinued.
Irgarol is the algaecide in this type of paint as well as some of the ablatives. Typically 2% of the paint. There is an article in Practical Sailor about concerns with this ingredient. It is not critical to the actual paint chemistry or adhesion to existing paints. Just a matter of reformulating with a different algaecide.
I personally recommend 3 Coats of Ablative first coat red second coat blue third coat black when you start seeing blue you know you're getting some ware when you start seeing red you're about ready for haul out...
I had thought about electroplating copper on an aluminum boat below the waterline.
I'm, alas, no surfer, but I believe you wax a surfboard to make the top sticky, so you don't slide off. It doesn't make the board faster. But on the bottom paint issue, I use Sea Hawk's Cukote semi-hard ablative here in the fertile southern Chesapeake Bay with good results on my Beneteau 411. My best sailing buddy, who's been sailing for eons, uses the same paint on his Island Packet 37, in equally growth-heavy coastal North Carolina.
What about the copper powder? Sand the hull, lay down a layer of glue, spray the copper powder and finish with a light clearcoat. Expensive but when you get some growth you clean it off, exposing new copper. You can do this several times increasing the life of bottom coat.
I don't even sand. I just slop on more ablative paint every year or two. The paint kind of fills in places where it had chipped off. It looks fine, and you don't see it when the boat's in the water anyway. And I don't race so performance is not a big issue for me.
VC Offshore is compatible with VC17 according to Interlux.
It’s the same with copper coat, several European countries have now banned it for its toxicity. Getting that off your boat’s bottom will be a nightmare.
Ablative is not supposed to flake off , that’s normally one of two things , poor preparation or if the number of coats of paint has built up over the years. A 40 foot boat with a fin keel takes 1.3 gallons of Paint. The other issue you have is if you are painting over existing paint the paint can be soaked up by previous layers. We just spent time with Pettit reps looking at our paint as it was flaking. The great thing about Pettit is they stand by they paint and if it’s not done properly they will ask the yard that did it to repaint the bottom at their cost. Blasting will cost about $5k and paint will cost about $2k. What you really need to know is when it was last blasted and how many times it’s been painted since then. Next year we will be blasting the bottom and starting with a hard paint from pettit
Sea-speed is a go fast silicone bottom paint. You have to have a smooth clean bottom but if your doing that anyway.
You will regret silicone coatings
Can you specify why anybody would regret silicone? If seen some boats coming out this year looking quite good (Baltic Sea). I wouldn't use silicone based coatings on my boat but I have to varnish my hull in the near future (the original gel-coat has nearly 50 years on it...). That's why i used copper coat. But if you don't want to varnish your hull I don't know any thing wrong with silicone. If it's the right one for the waters you in.
Silicone theoretically sounds like a great idea because nothing sticks to it. Once on your hull, it’s near impossible to remove if you want to switch to something else. I worked in coatings for a number of years and helped to develop fluorinated coatings with silicone additive. It was amazing but not suitable for saltwater environments. I know one of the research professors who worked on Selektope. This is the future of anti-foul. I don’t know why it is taking petit so long to get EPA as it is approved in the EU. It is an incredible technology and will change the industry.
Thanks for the quick answer. Yes, I can see why changing to another system would be hell. I will look into Selektope.
Hey Tim,
The VC17M is still available in Europe. No restrictions there. €80 per 750ml. Plus shipping.
It is still available but our supplier (working as a boatbuilder) has informed us that it will be discontinued. At least in Germany but I think that it will be EU wide. So buy it up to have something in between before the next generation is on the market.
Thanks from the future.
You're welcome
Irgarol has been illegal in Sweden for more than 15 years, it really shows how far behind Canada is when it comes to environmental laws. We still have a lot of problems with Irgarol over here though, even though it is forbidden to use. It stays in water and soil, causing problems for many years to come.
Btw, I love your videos even though a lot of the content is specific for Canada. Why not make a video about how to be a environment-aware boat owner?
I look it up and it says that "VC® Offshore" will be the permanent replacement for VC17 (do VC17M is also a interim replacement). And that it works just as good as VC17 AND more importanly it will STICK to VC17 (and VC17M)
Amazing. We are looking at buying a catamaran and it’s getting a bunch of insurance work done currently. I’m glad I caught this video before they start on it. It would be great to have a price of mind and make sure they don’t have a huge stock pile of vc-17m. We met the guy who is doing the work and I’m not so sure about him but it’s always better to check then look dumb later and re do thousands of $ worth of work.😅 Do you see some boat yards having a stock pile of this stuff and using it to get rid of it or would there be some regulation against that?
I guess we’re getting vivid what are your thoughts on that?
What are the environmental impact of ablatives vs the VC replacements
The LP siding of the boating world
I had no idea about types of paint for that matter sailing lol I'm getting to know : don't paint and drink lol
I hoping the replacement vc17 that I applied last year is still available, my hull looked great at hallout this fall.
It is. Tim’s info is old.
Ablative paint should not “fall off” or “flake off”. It is intended to slowly come off particle by particle such that “new/fresh” paint is exposed to do the antifouling work. If it is coming off in pieces or flakes then either, it was not put on correctly, or you went too long between bottom cleaning. Stripping the old paint off, sanding, and repainting is simply annual maintenance. If you are worried about that cost on a used boat, then you better just run away and stop looking at boats.
Interesting now does this work on fresh and salt waters ?
I have a small sailing trimaran 20 foot. Should I just wax it or put the undercoat and then the copper paint. ? Can or should I was it as well.?
I’m aware of some who used copper powder in two part epoxy for their bottom paint. After it cures they sand it to expose the copper and that’s it. I’m not sure how well it does. Anyone out there with any insight?
Any thoughts on Sea Speed antifoul paint?
I'm trying to remember the predecessor of VC17 in the 1980. vxx 90 or somthing like that?
What about silicone based paint? such as Interlux Micron CSC?
This video presents there are two categories of bottom paint, vc17 or ablative, for antifouling? Is this what was intended?
Is ablative paint good for the environment? I mean, painting flaking off in the water doesn’t sound good.
Good video but you missed modified epoxy, not hard not ablative and garbage that is still on many boats. Just go for a quality ablative over the maintenance intensive hard coats unless eeking out that last.134 of a knot is essential on the race course (which it can be lol).
Yes, we use Petit Vivid, which is in this category of hybrid anti-foul.
Honestly don't know what paint I have on the bottom. I'm sure alot of others will be in the same boat (as it were).
What about Finsulate?
All we are going to be left with is flex seal😳
Can you not thin and spray your ablative? Make for smoother thinner coats, faster in the water
We sometimes use airless spraying for ablative. It's quite fast if you have several boats with the same ablative (you loose quite a bit in the machine and it takes some time to clean it so I don't recommend it for only one boat). You can get it smoother than with a roller. but the paint itself is not slick and it will give up material while sailing so its not a big difference.
Petit has the rights to selectope technology out of Sweden. They are working on EPA approval. It is the next generation of anti foul paint that is far superior to what we use today and environmentally safe.
How do you know if the seller is telling the truth about what paint is on the boat?
The other options are copper coat but this may be banned in the Mediterranean soon due to its toxicity. Recently Practical Boat Pwner tested 8 types of anti fouling and the best by far was a slippery silicon anti foul which after 8 months the bottom was still clean where as soft and hard ablative paints fouled and to a lesser extent so did copper coat. On a separate note what do you charge for a consult to help with survey and negotiate discounts talking to brokers etc to ensure I don't buy a lemon. I live in the UK and ideally would like to source a boat in the UK and Europe unless you can find me one in the Caribbean or USA and help me deliver it back to blighty!
@@brownnoise357throw some copper pennies in a fish tank and you’ll see.
@@brownnoise357 nice. thank you for saying this so I didn't have to.
Im sick and tired of climate activists targeting us little guys with this silly garbage science and the politicians are happy to oblige with new junk regulations so they can grand stand how eco friendly they are. like a few thousand small boats shedding a few molecules of bottom paint per year in the ocean amounts to anything in the grand scheme of things when you got trillion dollar corporations pumping literal poison into the environment by the metric ton and nobody bats an eye.
You need copper and copper is quite toxic. As always the question is how much. that's why copper coat works. It's a lot of copper which becomes oxide and than is washed out. That means that copper coat is not as bad as an ablative but with a lot of boats and over a long time still harmful.@@brownnoise357
4:04 I don't know about Canada, but here in the US, there are child labor laws! :-)
thats why you dont pay them. they are not working for you if your not paying them!
A 14 years old can legally work in most states!
@@Jebarus13 agreed 100%! (My comment was meant in good humor, I mean humour). I got my first paid work at the ripe old age of 15! Good farming work, with plenty of fresh air and sunshine! Well, actually way too much sunshine in Lousiana in July. But there are probably special considerations in jobs such as paint removal... Just out of liability considerations, I would not personallly hire anyone under 18 for a job that requires a respirator.
I stocked up on VC-17 and I have enough to last me through 2026, hopefully by spring 2027 there will be a compatible replacement.
There already is. Tim's info is out of date.
@@svechappe6075 What is the name of the replacement? Where is it available?
@@allanrheaume5549 VC-17M. In the U.S. it's available at many places like West Marine, Defender, Jamestown Distributors and other on-line suppliers.
Surfer you don’t wax the bottom of the surfboard
What about copper coat and there is a Teflon paint as well I think .
Teflon is a "forever chemical" that is being banned planet-wide. Even the non-stick cookware. There is already Teflon in the bodies of every se mama on the planet.
mama, sorry
MAMAL! stupid auto-correct
Mammal
Dude!! 40 grit ?!?!? God 80 is plenty!! Original VC-17 didn't originally have igoral
No skill Wtf . I do race boat bottoms. Digging and ditching is a big deal. VC-17 didn't originally have igerol. So will be interesting to see what happens.
Any way interesting episode
Also VC 17 isn't worth a shit in salt water anyway
I recoiled in horror at that statement also. I envisioned raw fiberglass mat showing through.
Please don't "hire kids" to sand off highly toxic bottom paint dust that most adult boat owners do improperly. Also, don't get kids to apply the bottom paint, which emits extremely toxic vapors, and requires a chemical respirator, even outside, if you don't want permanent brain and nervous system damage. Do they make chemical respirators for kids?
i don't want to sound stupid but whats wrong with bathroom/ kitchen enamel or even car enamel? most of them have an anti microbial in them. it might take more cleaning but enamel last forever.
it might be fine for the topside and cabin fixtures. but I doubt that sort of paint could stand up to a year of constant immersion in the marine environment. It costs money to haul out and put the boat on stands for a week or more to sand and paint. best bet is to go with what has been tested to work vs experimenting with something that im sure someone has tried in the past and it didnt work.
@fakiirification they used it on wooden boats forever, not knowing enough about fiberglass I can argue if it would hold up there. i know that bottom paint is harder than some others but again not enough knowledge to make that agument. it holds up really good on my canoe but.... not the same.
My what a misleading video! Interlux has introduced a replacement for VC17, that is environmentally friendly. Ablative paint does not fall off - it wears to expose fresh anti fouling. Thousands of dollars to to do a media blast? Not necessary! VC17 is used on fresh water boats and the picture that you show with massive growth could not be more misleading. I apply 2-3 quarts to my 38 ft boat each spring in less than 2 hours and the boat comes out of the water clean every fall. You have lost your credibility with me.
Oh i get now paint will not last as long and cost more nice