How Cheap is TOO Cheap? Sailboat Problems - Ep 258 - Lady K Sailing
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- #cheapboat #sailboat #sailing #boatshop
How cheap of a sailboat is too cheap? Can you replace an engine? Recore a deck? When do we walk away of cut a sailboat up? Buying a sailboat can be hard, but it doesn't have to be! Things to look for buying a boat, sailboat buying advice, and which sailboat to buy.
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Tim, My wife and I bought a 1978 Whitby 42 for $15k USD back in October. It had been sitting at a dock behind someone's house in Florida since 2001! When I first looked at it, I was ready to take a pass. But the more and more I researched, the better it looked. It was a one owner boat purchased new in Ontario in 1978. The owner was meticulous! I have every piece of documentation, including the original VHF license from Canada, when she motored down the Erie Canal! (Reminded me of your adventure) Currently, the boat is still at the same dock, about two hours drive from our home. I got the Lehman diesel running after a 20+ year hibernation! She runs great! I removed and overhauled the velvet drive transmission after it puked 3 liters of fluid into the bilge. We are getting ready to moter her down the ICW to be closer, as we are preparing for haul out. We are prepping for blue water sailing and ocean crossings! I'll keep you posted... Right before we pulled the trigger, I said, "we aren't getting any younger. Why wait?"
Subscribing to follow your journey!
There's a saying in the yard where I winter my boat. "There's nothing more expensive than a free boat". That being said, if you're lucky enough to get a decent one (as I did) is saves you a lot of money to to pay for the necessary items to upgrade and replace.
DO NOT RE-TIGHTEN STAINLESS STEEL KEEL BOLTS. Stainless Steel stretches and continues to do so during its life. That's why we replace standing rigging. Re-tentening stainless steel keel bolts will stretch them further. They will break given too much load. They should be replaced. Re-tightening them may also cause galling or cold welding of the nut to the bolt. This will give a false impression of the torque of the nut on the threaded rod (or bolt) All modern stainless steel keel bolts are threaded rod with a washer and a nut and lock nut for this reason. Stainless Steel especially 316L has high stretch and low tensile strength. Sail Safe Guys, Ant & Cid.
Totally agree
That's very interesting, I'll need to research this I know. 316 is less brittle but weaker than 304 so what you are saying makes alot of sense. Honestly I don't know why we still use stainless at all it causes. All kinds of problems. The entire Marine industry should move over to grade 5 titanium for all components that don't Require welding.
There may be a reasonable argument for carbon fiber chain plates and it seems even. The aluminum chain plates in my boat may be fine. But from what I understand grade 5 titanium lasts forever. Perhaps we are stuck with stainless standing rigging at least for those of us who live in areas with huge temperature swings Dyneema isn't really a viable option.
Umm let's see a fiberglass boat is for sure not 100% rigid and the hull flexes and things work loose over 20 years and you're not supposed to retighten? That conversely you should never retighten rod rigging? Which I'm guessing is sectionally under a greater load. I'm not disagreeing that SS steel does stretch but your position is tenuous at best. Work harding is for sure a big issue people don't understand.
I think you overstate the issue.
@@jackwalby6257 rigging definitely l work.hardens little. Bending. An aluminum. Can back and forth until it breaks. It probably equals the crevice Corrosion problems with stainless. With the motion of the boat always rolling, Even when. Not under sail. I was asking a surveyor about this because I have no idea how old. My rigging is, and the boat has always been in fresh water when not on the hard for winter.
He said the motion wears out the rigging also not just the salt. My rigging is possibly original from 79 with about half of the year on the hard. So. It's still about 23 years of motion even without the salt if it original so more than twice the useful lifespan even though not shows no visible signs. Of wear. No cracks or broken strands. It looks perfectly fine but it needs to go.
He was saying if you start to see broken strands you have waited too long to the point of danger.
@SalingSamantas The thing is you can inspect rigging. It should be done at least every year and before ocean passages. if there is any doubt you change the suspect component. It's designed to take dynamic loads and these loads can be imposed purposefully to gain efficient sail shapes. Keel bolts are like like cylinder head bolts. They are designed to take torsional loads and are torqued in to the correct value to compress keel to boat. Re-tightening them will weaken them, stretch them and impose a load they were only ever designed to take one time.
I'm quite pleased that you pretty much covered what I thought about ultra cheap boats
No bad keels, too dodgy, then the deck, after that, it's a judgement call
I'm a mechanic, with years of experience in using GRP. I used to make GRP trailers
I can weld, and I've spent years on building and construction sites
When I see Utubers doing boats up, and they really haven't got a clue, but they do it anyway, it gives me a great amount of hope that I won't have all that much trouble, especially when I see experienced round the world sailors loosing engine power because a rubber diesel pipe is letting air in...........
If they can do it like that, then I won't have any problem..........
I wouldn't hesitate to pull an engine out, rebuild it, providing it's worth the effort
I've rebuilt motorbike engines
You really question your skills when you see 100 MPH on the clock
Was that a tapping noise...?
Working on and building shop machines that go over 10k rpm are some clenchy moments. The break-in on those always makes me duck and cover.
Almost as scary as building a CNC when you let it off the leash for the first time. (Not that I would ever do a spindle at near lightpseed on a new machine... I ain't that crazy)
I'm in the serious thinking about building the whole boat... But the prospect of feature creep and skyrocketing costs have me in a long term planning/re-planning loop.
I've always been in the camp of I want everything, and with the rule of Good-Fast-Cheap, I'm always slower than a donkey's ass. Like they say, when you're time ain't worth sh*t, DIY becomes so much more affordable.
Great summary! I might add rotten bulkheads, particularly the main bulkhead where chainplates are often attached.
I did an extensive refit on my cheap boat pretty much everything except the mast hull and drive is new bulkhead deck cores port lights. Hatches electrical plumbing stringers floor and cabin soles even the rudder is new. I greatly appreciate the learning curve and experience I am still Gaining from this refit. I really know my boat. Every detail every inch. BUT once is enough I wouldn't want to do it again. It takes a lot of time and money that could be better spent sailing.
Great to hear your now sailing and the sense of pride you must feel every time the sails fill, i'm at the begining of my journey with a coronet 20 build number 20 and have found much that needs doing but she still makes me smile.
@@shawnbartley9223 well I'm not quite sailing yet still. Going on the project I'm. Hoping for something next summer. To. Finally. Splash again for the first time since the fall of 2020.
@@brownnoise357 I'd love. To hear. All about it. Agreed. Being without a boat is unbearable. Fortunately I've had a smaller MacGregor 21 and I have been able to live on the water all summer since. 2020 and do some. Sailing too. But it's definitely very tight and inconvenient. Still I get to feel. The rolling Waves and . Hear the water Laping. Against the hull. I've got the best neighbors in my marina too. It's been an enjoyable experience and aloud me to continue living this life throughout the refit.
Please share When you get back on the water I'll be cheering for you.
well said, a cheap boat that is easy to fix the best bet if sailing is what you want to do, if you want to build your own boat build it, two different choices
I've been a city guy all my life, but I love this channel! My dream is to sail the Caribbean from Yucatan, 🇲🇽 to Cuba, 🇨🇺 and Puerto Rico 🇵🇷 and back again before I leave this planet 😊🎉
Run baby run !
Get a job washing dishes, save some money, buy a boat that some other skipper has spent a fortune on
That's our plan too hope to see you on the Sail
Greetings from Texas Tim. Been following you for 6 months when caught the sailing bug and I’m 56 so feeling a sense of urgency. You were definitely an influence on me with your go cheap but go now message. I just put contact on an endeavor 32 in Pasadena Maryland currently on the hard for past 2 years. Plan to splash, survey and sea trial in March. Thanks for the encouragement. Happy New Year!
Thanks for the encouragement Bob!
That cat with the pitched tent on deck had me dying 😂 💀
An example of a repaired keel - Sailing UMA.
An example of a successful deck recore - Sail Life.
Both of those counter examples notwithstanding, I don't want any of that smoke.
I reglassed the rudder attachments on a dingy once.
This was a very informative video! However, nearly all the other DYI sailboat UA-cam channels, tell a story of buying an inexpensive sailboat and then working on it for 2 - 3 years. It would be great to see someone buy a $20,000 and then fix her up in three months.
Congrats on the new position! Sailboats are made to sail and every time I haul out to repair it hurts because I want to sail but the wrong side up is not conducive to keeping the right side up. Your advice has always been a great source for me. Happy New Year Tim and keep up the good work!
great episode. I Walked away form a cheap Pearson 28 after casually leaning on a bulkhead and feeling a slight shift. Not something that can't be fixed or if DIYing it could be affordable but the time it would take was out of the question. In short, time has to be considered as much as monetary obstacles. Keep up the great work.
I bought one of these boats in the summer this year and do want to say that (so far) it was well worth buying cheap now than waiting 10 years.
I've (again, so far) avoided these issues and definitely agree with the breakdown of tasks by how big a deal they are. My mast is solid, decks/cores dry, keels (bilge keel) and bolts good. I've re-engined no problem (cost reflected in original price), done some glass work and changed the through hulls. All took work and a bit of money but reasonable on both fronts.
New standing rigging, sails, headlinings, interior woodwork etc. will need doing but I'm comfortable doing them over time, and with an acceptable amount of my labour for the cost.
All in all, if like me you can't afford a non-bargain boat, I say go for it! But don't just buy the first thing you find, take your time and get something that's got solid foundations, and this guys points are a really good start to finding that
Heya Tim . Discovered your channel about 2 months ago and I appreciate your knowledge .
I'm a newbie based in the Whitsundays , Australia atm with a budget of 20 - 30 K to purchase a liveaboard day cruising yacht .
Watching your Videos has given me much patience in selecting a vessel . Thank you so much
Thanks for the great tips and for sharing your opinions. Give us something to keep in mind. I really like the one stay/shroud at a time idea.
Exellant advice regarding keel & unseen structual wood between fibergalss sandwich rotting. As for loos - people go to composting and say they wished they had done it earlier.
Another sailing channel used HomeDepot wire for the rigging and it held up for like 4 years'ish. And for the record we love you too bro, Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Another thing that doesnt scare me is hull blisters. They do not affect performance or structural integrity.
Walked away from many boats I couldn’t stand up in, searched by Capsize ratio, in the 28-32’ range in the PNW all the good boats were getting sold before I could even see them finally made an offer on a Cal 2-30, very sound 1.66 cap ratio, new diesel, needs a main sail and new electronics and electrical been a great journey last two years headed to the Caribbean when done 😅
Awesome content. Tim, I've loved following you this 2023, let me be one of the first from Down under Brisbane Australia to wish you & your family a very Happy New Year for 2024 🎆🎊, I finished my year off by purchasing my very first sailing boat. 2024 Adventures awaits, your advice is invaluable to many & inspired myself. Hope to see you on the water one day to raise a glass.🍻🍻
Dad and I did extensive refit on 1983 Transworld 41' Ketch. A classic "Leaky Teaky" Beautiful boat. Paid 20k for hull. It had an engine but chronically malfunctioned (according to PO Log) Repowered with Yanmar 80HP Common Rail Diesel (Same engine as new IP). Installed new SS fuel tanks. The old ones were full of engine clogging debris and frankly... once out we could tell they were toast. New Electronics including downward and foward facing sonar. Replaced bow sprit, pulpit and raised safety line stanchions to hip level. We got new sails. Composting toilets (that was was one of the easiest things to do) installed solar panels - again. Easier than I thought. Sanded and reglassed keel. And finally... just as were "finishing" we realized compression post was rotting (there were hints but won't get into here) Compression post step was steel. Now it's stainless. In total over a 3 year period we spent 115,000.00 but we have a brand new boat. I wrote an article that was published Jan 2022 in "Good Old Boat" Magazine. That article was more about crazy parents and adventures. At that time we had just bought, "Bob" (That's our boat). I should probably reach out and update them. Happy to contribute some writing. My name is Nicole Black. UA-cam channel is Saddles & Sails. I'm not a sailor. Just a girl with sailboat. Oh... and I work on sailboats. So there's that. Happy Sailing!
What do you think of stainless steel wire rope with thimbles double swaged and oversized (like from the box hardware store) instead of machine swaged SS standing rigging .... I've met world cruisers in the Florida keys who said they did it and it was fine.... I did it on my trailer sailer no complaints.... Stretched but lasted just as long as the thinner factory rigging at 1/5 cost
TLDR: Sailing boats is a lot of fun. So is fixing up boats, sometimes, but it takes away from sailing time. Make sure you're doing what you want to do.
I did buy a cheap sailboat once, for $300. An Ericson 29, which was a reasonalble boat. I had been sailing on it a few years prior, and it had been a solid boat. It belonged to an acquaintance at work, and he had left the boat on the hard for a summer while out of the state. When he returned to the boat, he found the interior full of water since water came in from a leaking deck fixture and had no way out. That meant that the engine -- an old atomic 4 - had been underwater. Simple, I thought, get a new engine and clean things up.
So I had the boat hauled to my backyard and sailed my smaller boat and then I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned and cleaned. I sanded it and redid this and repaired that.
When I got to the point where I started to think about pulling the Atomic 4, I stopped and said to myself "This is miserable. I would rather be sailing with my kids, and this boat is costing me that opportunity."
So I called a friend at a boatyard and he came and bought the boat for $1000 -- well, it was in much better shape by this point -- and off it went. I took the money and made a down payment on an ODay 272 and my family went sailing. And never looked back.
Since then I have realized that fixing up boats and sailing boats are two different pastimes. I enjoy occasional exposure to the first, but try not to let it become an end in itself. If I'm looking at a boat and I can't safely sail it *right now* then I don't buy it.
Keep your priorities straight. If most of your sailing hours are spent with a toolbox, make sure that's what you want to do.
am looking for a boat between about 16 and 223 feet, something to camp cruise around the interior waterways of the US on. i kayaked source to sea down the Mississippi river years ago and want to do something similar on a small sailboat. see how far i can go in 6 months or so.. havent found a boat yet. something big enough 2 adults can sleep aboard at anchor if there isnt a place for us to camp onshore would be a big plus.. i think my ideal boat for this would be a 20ish foot catamaran or trimaran. a windrider 17 would be pretty sweet.
for some of us... buying a 10k boat (with issues) along with a 25k total budget is an advantage...if they are the right issues. We get to re-build or upgrade it in the way that we would want. Want to try synthetic rigging, rig a carbon mast on a smaller boat, or install an electric drive to get rid of that old gas or diesel monster. A good hull with a mostly intact boat can be a steal.
I agree. Wood rot, especially deck rot was a big NO for me when I wanted to buy, but little did I know the beta repower that was started(engine/transmission was supplied but not installed) was going to cost so much! And if I would’ve had to purchase that beta new I’d of been out that much more $$$. The benefit of buying a used boat needing work is you can get that $40k boat for $10k like me and slowly put the money into it over time(new main sail, electronics, rewired/replumbed, running rigging) and you don’t need to save forever or get a loan to get sailing.
This was very helpful! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Slip and winter storage 3k per year.15 years of pleasure 45k. Use this Russ formula as Minimum price for a used sailboat
To answer Tim's question, "when would I walk away," The short answer is when the surveyor tells me to." Two years ago, I found a 1983 Pearson 303 being offered for about $10,000. There was one big problem. The boat was in Rhode Island, and I live in Florida. So, for less than the cost of an airplane ticket, I hired a professional surveyor who answered all those questions, appraised it at $23,000 and provided me with a survey I could hand off to my insurance company. Turned out the boat passed, was in fair condition(no headsail), and with the deficiencies noted, the owner accepted my offer of $9500.😂
I really like the idea of a great boat with a bad motor and converting to solar and electric motor. Wind and Sun powered sailing is my dream boat. Do you see this becoming more popular in time?
Love your videos. Great presentation! Good luck with your new venture and keep em coming in 24. Thank you my friend.
Love this vlog, been a while, starting my very first project boat and always find good advice and tips here.
Happy holidays Tim! Best of luck for the new upcoming year. Cheers!
We old sea hounds have it all wrong.
Today's "influencers" with their all so easy breezy old driftwood boats they got for free or just a handful of dollars work outstanding. They fix them up for zero to nothing.
Working on them like a champ and manage a close to perfect redo.
With their zero to none cost of living, zero marina fees and everything else, they show us how it's done.
They even have time to work on their videos and social platforms.
😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
There is no such thing as a "cheap" boat. Regardless whatever you need be replaced. Everything cost a shit load of cash.
People who believe different are simply delusional.
Thanks for sharing and happy new year.
..
1977
25 ft Irwin
swing keel
$150
essentially
for the four stancions
One sail
Mast fair
Halyards fair
deck fair
bottom job needed
Got her in 2023 Nov
shooting for summer sailing
...
I think the main "walk away" is combination of problems. If all the boat is good, but engine is bad, then is something to tackle, if the rigging is bad, well, time to change it, deck soft? ok, you have to work on the deck, need new sails, you may go for it, all together, you won't know where to start, and you won't be able to sail it until an N amount of work is done, that might end up being years... I remember once walk away from a boat, the overall condition was "if you go sailing it'll fall apart on the sails pressure and sink". All the rest, could be done, like bad mast, well you look for the mast, and then see if the deal work together, otherwise, is a no.
Off topic, I live outside of the US and I'm always looking for boats there (maybe one day... I'll go and buy one) but something really difficult to figure out is marinas and boatyard pricing there, winter storages, etc... That might be a good topic for when you run out of topics
Happy new year. Thanks for all the awesome information you share with the viewers. Keep up the good work 💪 SV Kiwi Lady Opua Bay of islands New Zealand 👍🏿
What about moorings, dry dock and hauling in/out fees. That’s the real expense and never goes away.
Been rebuilding Catalina 30s for a few years now
Motors are super cheap to rebuild the m25xp is just a Kubota d850 and rebuild kits can be had for 400 - 700 depending on the kit
I will say keel smiles 99% of the time are super easy and inexpensive to fix if you do it yourself
I finished 5 keel smiles and started a 6th that I will finish when it warms up
My turn and run are boats that have been dropped off their stands
Watch your compression post stub that's the interesting but doable repair
Soft deck
Rebed then think long and hard about how you want to fix it
Injecting closed cell foam is cheap and fast although you will need a vacuum pump
Thankyou 👍
With regard to the engine: Accessibility equals serviceability.
Regarding the death of a sailboat: I can't remember the name of the book; but, a few years ago I read a book whose narrative was in the first person voice of a sailboat. It was terrific (if you're into anthropomorphism) and as the boat went from owner to owner, with a wide range of care taken, and ultimately the sailboat's death - if you sail, it really does make you sad - even tragic. I live in Loreto Bay in Baja Sur and recently a guy ran his boat into a rock, sailed it onto shore - I suppose in hopes of salvaging it - but then abandoned it. Slowly, over the next couple of weeks, things slowly disappeared - all of the running rigging, the sails (at least the ones not torn to shreds by the wind), the standing rigging, the mast, the winches, etc. All that remains is the hull. It's really sad. Worse, it's sitting (still) in a national marine park, presumably still with a load of diesel fuel on board. I don't know what the disposition is of the diesel that was on board, but hopefully it was quickly siphoned off. I posted pictures of it with the caption, "Please don't ever let this be me."
Is it still there? And what beach? I'm traveling in that area now.
Also, La Paz has a dozen or so boats that got hit by the hurricane this last fall. Lots up on the beach and underwater.
@@MrM-hl1vp it was still there Wednesday at the north end of the malecon.
@@davidmalone9022
I'll probably see it when I get back up that way. I'm down in La Paz right now. It's a shame here, that last storm that came through really put a lot of boats on the beach or on the bottom. On the good side if there is one. Not so many derelict boats anchored up here. So there is plenty of space to anchor. Nature has a way of cleaning up after us humans.
Never drop anything off at a shop and say "when you get time", even if you're not in a hurry. First youll be going back 4 months later to steal your property back. Second, since the shop had been seeing your stuff around the shop for months they're going to overestimate/overvalue the amount of work... hence the crazy bill for the half finished project you basically had to steal back.
Forget free...if you're serious about boating, buy something around 40' and as new as you can afford. I'll give you two reasons...40' slips are available now and newer boats are insurable.
Even if you have plans to sail around the world, you'll likely spend most of your time in a marina some place.
Just a comment to say thanks for the video and to help your algorithm 🤙🏻
Cheers headhuntersailing
Thanks for everything!
Great video! Liked (just now) and subscribed (quite a while ago).
I'd add another "walk away" criteria to your excellent list. IMO, walk away from any boat that is going to take so much time to rebuild that you'll be trapped on the hard and not be able to live your dream.
I have a friend in Key West who lost his girlfriend - she walked away after waiting over two years for him to finish up a 44' project boat that was given to him for free. He told her endless stories about the exotic locales they were going to sail to. She didn't want to be trapped in the yard with him, working 50 hours/week to make money to buy parts, and spending another 50 hours/week working on a too-big (IMO) boat.
" Go small. Go simple. Go now."
Very good advice. The bigger the boat the bigger the costs. From standing rigging to marina fees, insurance, bottom paint....
I have a question. Why would you use fuses at all instead of breakers? I could see adding a main fuse from my battery bank in case it floods, but I don't see a reason to use fuses instead of breakers.
I'm curious about your comment about the cost of UA-cam? You're not the only content provider who has recently grumbled. I'm strictly on the recieving end and supply no content, but have noticed an amazing uptick in advertisements. I find it crazy to watch a 10 minute video and have 3 or 4 advertisements. Someone is not making enough money I presume? OK...That's all I was wondering. Enjoyed the video. Oh, and just wanted to mention that in a previous video you stated you had a Chrysler 22 some years ago. I also had one in the 80's. Nice enough little boat. Sailed the Keys, Tortugas, West coast of Fla and even Bimini. But...and a big Butt...was the seal on the over engineered pivot for the swing keel. For short periods of time I could stop the leaking, and I'd say it was a definite design flaw from the get go. I've got a centerboard boat now with a nicely sealed trunk that does not leak. Thanks for all your great info and I'm enjoying your history vlog as well...Happy New Year
Surprised that osmosis didn't get a mention here.. I've walked away from 3 boats due to osmosis.. yes, an early indication can be successfully treated but anything more advanced could end up as a fate worse than death...labour costs these days are a killer it's why we see so few beautifully designed wooden boats now.
Yeah, water in the bulge is bad. It destroys fiberglass hills. Read West Epoxy Systems free book online. It's free and worth the read is you are getting a fiberglass boat.
Worked the marine industry as a professional mariner. Crap boats are a liability, it is ALWAYS MORE EXPENSIVE to get it to a level of something you would actually sail. Sweat equity is a joke. If you have Birkenstocks and a tilly hat, your local Chandler is creaming his shorts.
Crazy, excellent topic well done
9:53 / 10:04
How Cheap is TOO Cheap? was your best show yet by far. Walter schulz drilled multiple holes and injected 2 gals of epoxy into a soft deck/bow. seems reasonabke especially if you could vacuum it dry first. Could you add chopped carbon fiber to th epoxy before injecting?
Excelentt advise: spot on.
What about buying a boat with problems you can manage? I mentioned to you a Hans Christian that you showed some time ago as an example of cool cruisers for less than $100,000. It had expensive problems. Instead, I bought a Cal 39 with an Ooooold Perkins. The engine and transmission need to go. I think I can replace them for under $30,000. If I spend that, I will be far short of $100,000 total for a blue water, relatively fast, cruiser. Major systems for cruising/navigation, rigging, relatively new sails, new canvas, are all serviceable. In other words, why not invest in something you can pay somebody else to help you refit. It’s all part of the adventure. I want to know my boat inside out, anyway. Thank you for the inspiration to look at boats and consider possibilities. I think I found a good one.
One thing to keep in mind is insurance, I'm in Mexico right now and liability insurance is all I need. I'm wanting to go to the South Pacific and I'm finding total coverage is what is needed. I'm not going till next year, but if you are wanting to go to far away places. It's looking harder and harder. But if you want to go to Mexico, that's easy. Liability insurance is cheap, less than $400.00 a year for my 45.9 foot.
Go for it, Hans Christians are tough boats, just make sure it's a dry bilge. Or look for blisters.
Older boats are sometimes hard to insure. Check it out. Not impossible but difficult and expensive.
@@MrM-hl1vp I have blisters, small ones. The surveyor seemed to think I could handle it myself on the hard. Also, no rush on this. They’re about dime-sized. He said wait until they’re about the size of a quarter. That’ll be a project for a couple years from now.
@@grantlandthomas
I'm new to sailing and fiberglass boats. I did own a 42' steel Marco out in Dutch Harbor Alaska for 20 years.
The best book I have found is a free one from West Epoxy Systems, you can download it for free. It has a section on blisters and how they are formed and how to fix them. I would highly recommend looking that book up.
Where are you at?
Good luck with your boat.
@@MrM-hl1vpwow, thank you! I’m in Alameda, CA. Fortunately, the blistering should be easily remediated. It’s just going to be time out of the water.
If older GRP wood core decks rot, what other core types were used that do stand the test of time?
Some boats have cores made from closed cell PVC foam (Kledgcell/Airex/Divinycell/etc.)which gives strength/insulation without rot. It was an expensive option so normally found just on high end boats. My current boat has a leaky teak deck but was cored with Kledgecell pvc and next summer we'll replace the teak with Kiwi Deck - all without having to worry about rotted wood needing replacement.
Solid glass... but supported...then you have composite/plastic/foam cores.. they dont rot but can crack and leak. Especially in high stress areas....but easier to fix.
Happy New Year
What about a trailerable trimaran?
LOL... THE JOKE ABOUT THE GAL N ROCKS... V. FUNNY...
PUPPY....
My dad said. “ The most expensive boat you can get is the one you get for free”
He should know as he owned a marina,
I'll bet he has a few, the owners abandoned. He'd probably give them away if you didn't bring it back...😂🤣
Dynema rigging is a no brainer at this point. It's tried and tested and is a great option for most boats.
It doesn't work with.huge.Temperature. Swings unless you are there to.deal with it. You can. Quickly Go from tight to slack. When the temps drop. And if you retention for Cold and the temps rise to fast. You will either rip the chain plates out of the deck or push the mast through the bottom of the boat depending on which is weaker.
Also anyone with a sharp knife could dismast you in a matter of minutes. I like Dyneema alot but like everything else with boats it depends on your application. If you sail in warm weather only then maybe but where I am it can be 50F one day and - 20 the next so Dyneema standing rigging is a questionable choice.
@@SalingSamantas Temperature is a good point, but people have and do use it. Rigging doctor has used Dynema to great success. I think he was sailing in the Caribbean though. In his video he said he didn't retention the rigging once over a 3 year 15,000 mile period. That is pretty good track record. On a smaller boat it is still a no brainer. The expansion is far less when the length is shorter, so that really isn't as much of a problem and i don't think most people will be sailing where there is such extreme temperature changes, if such a place exists.
@@JD96893 yes that true but he sails I relatively warms waters he never been north of the Chesapeake and even then in the warm part of the year. The does hat the same Dickenson Diesel heater I have in my boat, he runs his on low 1 or 1 1/2 and says it keeps his 45ft non insolated boat plenty warm. If got an insolated 35ft boat and it didn't cut it on a cold night you can see your breath inside the boat and maybe keep it above freezing Inside. If I had no intention to Go round the horn spend time I'm the southern ocean or even do the northwest passage someday I would use Dyneema also. But it definitely limits the places you can go unless you want to be constantly tuning the gig. Even worse if you're off the boat for a couple weeks and there is drastic temperature. Fluctuations. Like I said before it can be 40 to 50 degrees here on day and drop sun zero numbers overnight. The coldest I've seen so far is 37 below. But it has been a few years. I guess if you unstep the mast for the winter Dyneema would work fine.
@@SalingSamantas Most definitely has its draw backs, i don't doubt that, but so does metal rigging. It may be easier to maintain, but the price, weight, and longevity are important factors vs Dynema. You can also repair dynema rigging easily as long as you have extra.
@@JD96893 just use staylocks and replace it every 10.years it not that bad and you can still. DIY
What about hurricane damaged boats with the mast and rigging intact. Would you recommend it run away from it?
Good advice, it all depends on the $$$ / skillsa / time equation.
Most people can learn more than they think. You just start on the low fruit.
_Slightly different look & feel to today skipper. Updating or deleting your Tinder? =)_
Tim - I have no doubt that YOU could take a $10K boat and successfully/happily cruise with her, however, you have already been racing/cruising/repairing for a long time - but most of the readers simply don't have your background. I doubt they could rebuild an old clunker without taking twice as long and spending three times as much money as an old hand would on the same project. I really don't see that many decent, savable boats on the market that are priced low enough to buy/rebuild/live aboard without spending SIGNIFICANT TIME AND MONEY in the rebuilding. In addition, there is the huge rise of inflation in all things BOATING. Inflation is simply staggering! Insurance, bottom paint, sandpaper, cushion foam, canvas, etc. - why the stuff has pretty much DOUBLED in the past three years. Still, if one has his heart set on a fixer and is a hard worker and aware of the myriad of pratfalls awaiting, best of luck to all so resolved!
Cheers.
Happy new year 🎉
Why would a weld in an aluminium mast be a near walk away? Doesn't that depend to some level on the size of the mast? Smaller masts are easier find second hand... ...or???
By the way a short take on second hand parts might be an appropriate follow up. Even that Shannon bloke speaks warmly about second hand replacement parts...
As a pipe welder for 25 years I would run away from a welded aluminum mast. You're depending on loading the mast like a bow. A weld anyplace in the length of it changes the bending flexibility. No matter how good the weld is, a PE engineer needs to evaluate the 5 types of stress not a dude or chick that can weld. The weld may be the best ever x ray quality made with the correct alloy match and post welding treatment, and the new stress point is maybe 8 inches above or 10 cm below the repair asking for catastrophic failure.
Just get a new homogeneous stick. A new or used mast costs a lot so probably not worthwhile. If you do buy one don't go wild drilling holes in it. Even drilling and adding a cleat on a Sunfish mast has been known to crack the mast. Yes look into that , two small little holes on a ubiquitous sunfish and sail it hard and experience mast failure. That's why they use a hose clamp for cleats when Jen's rigging of a Sunfish . My feeling on repair welding an aluminum mast or boom is for emergency get it back home only. Happy New Year 2024!
I'm going to try not to get too lit but you know sailors
What is your opinion on a 1973 Columbia 41, I just recently bought one and although it's in decent shape and it floats I worry if it'll take to much money for a refit, the engine is taken apart but i'm a mechanic so no worries there I know it'll need to be rewired and it does need electronics and some interior work, the mast and rigging look good, I know Columbia is a good boat but is it worth it to put another 30 thousand or so into it? I'm not sure yet, any opinions will help me greatly
It's said there is nothing more expensive than a free sailboat. Truth. Your red flags are pretty much my own. Another one is where the boat is located and if you can work on it at the marina. I was offered a nice little C&C but it was in a Boston marina. $$$$$$$ The only way I could figure out how to make that work financially is to sail it up to Salem and take a mooring. I was leery about doing the trip in an unknown boat that had to be moved right away. Walked away and probably saved a lot of headaches.
You got a like just for the girl with a pile of rocks part.
I got a macgregor, it will never be worth a dime more than the engine is worth.
I have always had a dream of never owning a boat. I am definitely living the dream.🍔
YES SIR..
Faster than I'll jump off Netflix the next time they raise their prices again😂😂😭
I've been wondering if buying a boat would be better than a trailer to tow and live in.
I'm on a sailboat in the Sea of Cortez right now.
You will find anywhere, it can be hard to find a place to anchor or tie up. Marinas aren't cheap and they require at least liability insurance. Bottom paint isn't cheap, in cold water maybe you can go 3-4 years between painting. Warm, like down here 1-2 maybe 3 with the right paint, haul out down here is around $500 round trip in Puerto Penasco. They have websites to check out. Even living in a boat yard isn't too far fetched while working on a long project.
Good luck 🤞
Marinas down here are around $1000 a month. They go by the foot. Stay under 40'. Everything is cheaper.
IMO it has to do with the amount of money you will pour in it vs its value; spend 30k fixing a 10k boat and it will become a 10k boat some idiot sank 30k in...
Great videos-please provide contact details re content contributions -thank you
*Sam Holmes has entered the chat*
Wet decks and rot on a keel stepped boat, not a deal killer. Deck stepped which requires that TUBE to be secure, run away.
Stainless bolts into a iron keel, walk. All lead keels will have nuts, iron will have bolts. Why? Molten lead won't melt stainless but Molton iron will, think about it.
Be careful your starting to talk far too much sense.
I'm one of those people who bought "the old sailboat". It's still something of an unknown as the marina's haul-out is currently not an option and we don't want to try to take it to another marina until we know it's 'sea-worthy". However, it was my dad's sailboat before he died so there's a lot of sentimental value. I've heard sailing, like motorcycles, is akin to therapy (hopefully not just in cost)... but then she only cost $1500 CAN (like with a free puppy, there will be much more spent, I know). She's a 1981 Newport 28 so there are parts to be found and we aren't afraid of doing our own work. I'd never spend big money on a sailboat. And while we won't be heading to blue water until maybe next winter, we have a busy year ahead learning about our boat and how to sail.
A Newport 28 is a quality boat. Your father would be happy to see you sailing it. As for the blue water, it's not going anyplace. It will be there when you're ready. Restoring the boat is a journey, too. Enjoy it. :-)
What about a 1979 Westsail 32? I am thinking of buying one
Watch some sailing channels where they bought a $5k boat. And then repair it for 5 years. Or more. Not me, i working and saving for a good base boat to start with then add my cruising needs.
You have to decide what is within your skill set. As far as work that’s going to need to be done. I’ve been in the business over 30 years… So what will be too far gone to me is different to other other other people.
The hull and engines are the most important things for me when buying a boat, if those are bad then walk away
I sought a moderately priced, well-cared for, high-quality boat, with no red flags in the survey. It took me some time to find her, and I'm glad I went that route. My Tartan 31, even though she is more than 30 years old, was not cheap and she is worth every penny. I've watched too many UA-camrs who, even though they got a boat for super cheap, or even for free, ended up spending much more than I did, and losing a couple of sailing seasons, to go that route. If you have marketable skills, you're better off spending the time it would take to restore the boat working to save the money to buy a boat that won't sink you in bad glasswork, bad deck (or hull) core, bad rigging, a bad engine, or whatever other major problems the surveyor may find.
Do buy a boat that you love when you see it, *and* that the surveyor confirms is seaworthy. Buying a cheap boat won't save you money, unless you decide you can live with the problems it has.
As a wise old salt once said, there's nothing more expensive than a boat you got for cheap.
Happy new year, great content!! Welding masts is no problem with the right skills and equipment.
I picked up a solid glass '76 40ft ketch for a nominal fee, no working engine, insides all needed replacing. But you know what? I went for it because I can do most of the work myself. Woodworking? No problem. Electrics? 12v/24v is so easy. NMEA2k? Hell yeah all day. Mast was good, sails were serviceable. I can get swageless rigging done at a reasonable price. Only thing it is costing me is a bit of time, and yard fees. I have been working on it for just over a year and it has been customised to how I want it. Only remaining costs for me are replacing the engine, which will cost me £5k and a few NMEA2k gadgets. All in, I will have a lovely ketch that has been customised to my requirements for under £45k all in. I'd struggle to find any deal that would get me exactly what I want for that price.
I have seen boats for free and there not worth it. I have also seen people by cheap boats, spend thousands of dollars, endless man hours and it's still a cheap boat. However, if the boat is worthy, aka good foundation as well make and model, then maybe. Know what you're getting into, costs and time can ruin your aspiration.
What is too much depends on the boat and the price. The biggest consideration is that an old boat is only worth so much. So throwing $30K to $40K at a boat that is only worth $15K max is not worth it unless the boat has some special meaning to you. Of course you may always find that one special person who thinks your restored to better than new Bayliner Buccaneer 210 is really worth the $30K you have in it.
I agree about rigging, although my approach is to measure the individual wires and then simply order new ones. I have been using a rigging company in Massachusetts for almost 30 years with great results and the price is right. One thing about replacing the rig is to do it symmetrically - in other words, do both cap shrouds at the same time. Repowering with a new inboard diesel is a big cost ($15K+ if you do the work yourself), so the boat has to be worth it. Recoring a deck is not that hard. The hard part of that job is making the deck look pretty after the recore is done.
One thing not mentioned.
Older boats can have problems getting Insurance. Most if not all Marinas require at the least liability insurance. Check out that before getting your work project.
So I’m currently in the market for sailboat #4 all were used and all were “cheap” boats.
The first one, was a cute little Cal 22 for 3k she wasn’t in too bad of shape, standing rigging was solid, sails were decent, but the woodwork was a royal mess, there was no engine, nor was there any running rigging to speak of. A few months of work (weekends only) and she was good and seaworthy, I already had a little 6hp long shaft I could slap on the bracket and call good ‘nuff. For what she got used for, namely being taking a couple 20 somethings jaunting around Buzzards Bay one or twice a week I was fairly pleased with her. Total refit cost was about 1k, not bad.
Boat 2, which was bought while I still owned boat 1 was not so easy. She was a C&C 25 that I picked up for 4k. Which I have to admit I over paid she needed pretty much everything except standing rigging and a mast. Fortunately she was also outboard so no big deal I thought. Sails were rotten, electrical was shot, basically a good hull, with a good deck, a solid mast and decent standing rigging, and not much else, even the rudder was junk! She got a serious makeover, and by the time I was done I could have pretty much just gone ahead and bought a much nicer example of the same boat. But that was a very good learning experience and it got me much more comfortable with working on things I might not have otherwise have tackled. Worked slowly in the yard on “Atropos” and still had “Vagabond” on the mooring to go for the occasional sail on to blow off steam with.
A few run ins with a good chop and a wind against the tide coming though Quicks Hole however told me that outboards are probably not the best, could hobby horse so bad the prop could be lifted out of the water which is … less than ideal…
Boat 3 was a Catalina 30, I practically stole that boat, they were asking 6k for her and her being an early MK1, I wasn’t expecting much, Craigslist no broker, crap pictures, pick your red flag it was there pretty much. But decided to give them a call anyway and see what was up. And to my surprise she was in fairly good condition. With most of the typical MK1 problems having already been solved. It was fairly apparent that until fairly recently someone had cared quite a deal about her, and there was the paper trail to prove it. The dodger was totaled with the isinglass blown out, the trim was in pretty rough shape and there were some minor bits that were rather conspicuously missing, like the galley table. But she was seaworthy as she was, so 5 days after purchase the delivery trip was done (the other 2 boats having been 1 sold and 2 lost in a terrible divorcing accident by this time)
Now me being me I couldn’t let this perfectly serviceable boat go without some fiddling with so new table right off the rip. Then she sprouted a pair of 100w solar panels because well weekending had turned into whole weeks and running the diesel was loud and dead batteries suck. Next she got a second bigger fresh water tank because running out of that also sucks. Then a diesel heater got added because I was living aboard and cold sucks and Maine gets pretty cold. Bermuda became an idea one day towards the end of October a little over a decade ago. Soon she also sprouted a little wind genny because using too much juice. Ended up cruising the east coast, Bahamas and bits of the Caribbean on that boat.
So things that would scare me away from the next boat; needing to do any recoring
A bad mast
Signs of keel issues, or keel damage suggesting a very hard grounding
Zincs that are completely corroded away (no desire to deal with replacing a shaft and friends)
A completely bad engine or one that has a stupid amount of hours on it
Having multiple systems that all need to be replaced.
Keel shows signs of stress? Replacing the bolts and rebedding the sole is a 20-30 hours work... With an additional 60-70 hours you can repair a classic built hull after a hard keel grounding... Just done on a Sunrise 34 bought as scrap for 3000€... And it is now MUCH stronger and reliable than ever before.
The only things that would make me walk away is the sandwich delamination and the mast that is missing... The rest can be fixed with relatively little money.
Hi Tim, very good vid, I think you covered the major points very well, I would add, never buy a boat that is in the water make sure you get it lifted out so as to inspect the bottom and keel fully. A friend of mine bought a sailboat for a £1.00 that was in a marina local to me, everything above the waterline looked fine and sounded like a great deal as the seller was retiring from sailing and just wanted rid off it, but my friend had it lifted out found to his horror that the keel was off centre ! had been bent over, then a terrible repair with fibreglass that was peeling off had been attempted !
My friend (who was fairly new to boats) ended up paying a surveyor report to asertain if it was worth trying to repair professionally only to find out it was 4 times more than the boat would be worth! He then had to pay a lot of money to get the boat scrapped and Marina fees due for the time this all took and it ended up costing him over two grand!!
The morale of my story is Buyer Beware, if something seems like an incredible deal there's usually a reason for it, which many unscrupulous people won't divulge.
Everything can be fixed
But what are the costs of that? That’s his point
good job of those guys cutting a fibreglass boat up with no mask system...
Did you already do a series on (pending) Taxes/VAT when buying a boat, on choosing the flag and maybe even choosing to set up a eg Virgin Islands? Company which owns the boat to make circumnavigations easier. At least things top consider already when buying the first boat.
If you've never owned a sailboat, don't start out with anything costing more than $3000 or more than 25' long. After a couple years, you'll have the knowledge to make an educated buy on a larger older boat. Look out for the ones which have been in dry covered storage for years and don't have rat problems. Bottom won't be delaminated and they clean up nicely. Drive a hard bargain because sailboats aren't easy to sell. You'd be surprised.
I wish I could hire you it's nerveracking having no money and having to buy a used boat fer the first time. I feel confident in fixing ( I was a fabricator/welder for 10 years) but now I am disabled and novice to sailing. Love the content though after enough of yer vids I'll be ok.