I’m pretty sure Sanity Land is a place where people would apologize without making you feel like you’re the problem and gaslighting is something used for fancy cooking.
I just wish I could turn it around by going to the past and telling myself what I am dealing with. 12 years of narcissist land and I was told back then its not you who is crazy. My wife became a narcissist because of my mother-in-law. I wish i could keep her away before it went south. Have 2 kids in need of a mother, I will still keep in the relationship, I dont have any alternative option. Have to know how to cope myself and she is in therapy and get better with time. I am not saying a full recovery but atleast to be a good mother for the kids.
@@stacyjaye6350 Dear my kids are in my full custody. She's getting therapy at a relative's place. Its really hard to work & be a caretaker at the same time
My family never got it untill recently just after her outburst. Now they dont what me to stay in the relationship. I have kids and have no alternate. I wish there was another way to move on but there isn't.
Yeah like when my friend told me my ex narcissist was just marrying the multi-million dollar rich girl because he must really "love her", and that its not at all about the money -
In an interview last week, Judith Herman said that her research indicated survivors were angrier at the people who didn't help than at the abuser themselves. I understood.
@@dangelodiane I see, you probably don't know how to turn your anger into something healthier. I see the problem here. Have a nice life and don't take advice from anyone, you will go very far with that mindset.
When inexperienced, uneducated people speak to me like this, I feel like I'm being gaslighted all over again but from a different person. I simply don't talk to anyone about my problems anymore. It's probably not good for me, but neither are some of their "solutions" which can be downright demeaning sometimes.
@@kathyparker5009 they truly are and I understand completely how it feels to have a narcissist enlist others to create an even more toxic and harmful situation with others involved making it even more difficult at times. I hope their are people in your life who will offer moments of comfort and peace
You are almost Perfectly describing so many toxic , dysfunctional church settings and relationships . As well as other socially structured settings. You are Spot On Dr. Ramani , again, Thank you !
Oh, yes! This is my entire church. I reached a point a long time ago where I just despise them. I used to think they were all well-intentioned. I no longer do, after a number of them tried to deliberately obstruct escaping the narcissists and have been instrumental in forcing children into unsupervised clutches of narcissists.
Sanity land- love it! I have a sort of similar term- charmed life people. Those who have never had their life plans derailed by a problematic person/condition outside of their control. The appropriate response is empathy. What you will feel is judgment.
I can’t love this enough. Just experienced this last night for the millionth time. Reached out to my lifelong friend with my heavy heart and she texted back a superficial dismissive platitude. So painfully isolating and disappointing.
This is one of the most profound pieces on this experience. I feel like I’m stuck in a horror movie sometimes with a narcissistic family system that just seems to get worse every year. In my case the people from sanity land know each person in the family and are completely charmed by the narcissists and punish me accordingly. It’s so isolating and upsetting, and after a while you start believing you’re the problem.
8:47 this is so true. It’s one of the reasons why I just don’t say anything anymore because at the end of the day, you start to look crazy for even dealing with these types of individuals.
I have gotten to a place, with the help of all these new revelations about Narcissistic abuse like I suffered growing up with, of forgiving myself. I forgive myself for going along with what happened, and not fleeing for my life - sooner. Staying for far too many years in Insanity Land thinking I can show them the way to Sanity Land and we could go there and become happy, HONEST, and sane.
I understand this, but, I have also found conversations with others who have walked the same path to be very rewarding. You can't talk with a sleepwalker about it, but this healing can be reinforced with the sharing of the stories.
Oh my gosh, you nailed it! As usual. I loved with this "why don't you just ", and "you should try following thru on your boundaries " for decades before I knew what I was dealing with and still after. I still don't have a good response. Especially when it's folks like therapists or the most hurtful came from crisis intervention folks he pushed me to an attempt at unaliving myself and then called them to pick me up. It just adds so much to the crazy making of it all.
I’ve had this type of situation happen over and over. It’s so frustrating. It’s like another shock wound to hear these normal suggestions from well meaning people. Leaves me sensing that I’m not understood and I am all alone.
The biggest problem with the people from sanity land is that they expect that everyone automatically operates off the same set of principles and guidelines and cant comprehend that there are people out there who live life wanting to harm other people. Abusers know what they are doing and they get away with it because there is this disbelief from others that people could be like that. And because of that, they genuinely believe the solution must be in the victim's actions.
YES❤ and it's even worse for those of us who had narcissistic parents/families...I was the scapegoat at 7 yrs old! Oh, and it's still "all my fault". To have Sanity land people STILL agree it's "all my fault" and it's frustrating.
Oh my gosh it's maddening because when you finally vent about it to somebody but that person doesn't understand the situation and they just give you some easy answer as if you're just stupid oh my gosh the most frustrating thing
Indeed 💯 Perfect timing on this video. Just this week, I realized that it's as if an actual language barrier is preventing me from being able to use logic and reason with these folks! The fact is that they will not be reasonable, and for an actual sane person, this can make you feel crazy. And then they call you the crazy one of course. It's infuriating! I understand why no contact with these people is often the best solution for maintaining one's own mental health ✨️
Shape shiftifters, you can't pin down what it is so you turn yourself into a pretzel trying to please and getting disintegrated piece by piece. There is no logic or reason and that's the problem, no honest open conversation.
Oh and then when you finally tell people about the situation and the abuse they say oh well you chose that person. The lack of understanding and empathy in sanity land where they blame the victim is even more heartbreaking 😢😢
Luckily I had a support system when my relationship started to become a problem. Unfortunately it took people who were understanding of my situation to learn from their own experience as you described.
You will have to be in many different relationships then, until you get to, ‘good, better, or best,’ as you’re saying ☺️ And, yes, sometimes it’s better to just stay alone, and be at peace😅@@therollingstone9701
Or they say, "I never liked them." My personal favorite came from my mother. "You’ve been defending him for years!" From what? She thought the sun shone out his *ss. She, on the other hand, had been defending my father. Of course, I eventually concluded that my father abused everybody in the family and my mother abused the kids. I honestly don't know which was worse -- being a grandiose narcissist's golden child (aka Mini Me) or a malignant narcissist's scapegoat.
With narcissistic abuse, the disturbing ricocheting in one’s mind seems to often be from multiple others on a spectrum of abusers themselves to those who just don’t get it . . .
Yes! I went to therapy during a bad post separation abuse. He tried to teach me what red flags were 😒 meanwhile I'm here looking for a metal door because I'm scared of my ex breaking in
As usual dr ramani shows up as the true friend. Someone who's going through the same things as us and is honest about it. She reflects my emotions when dealing with these sorts of people. Everyone should listen to her. Bravo! Thank you Dr!
That is the absolute worst. I remember that period of time like it was yesterday. I left my ex-husband when my youngest was just 3, and had to deal with a legal nightmare for the next 15 years. It was nothing short of hell. I am so sorry you are having to go through that. As if being a parent wasn't hard enough... wishing you the strength, resilience, and courage to survive the legal nightmare so you can thrive in the chapters that follow 🫶🙏
@@masquarra When courts tell a mother that she has to cooperate, that clearly indicated that she is not cooperative. Co parenting is very easy but it is not when someone does not want to cooperate. I'm just applying common sense and logic to the situation.
"I have outgrown the need for validation! "🎉❤ I am going to repeat that to myself out loud until I live it! Thank you! I often have to remind myself of that. Hugs!
Dr R is such an Expert on this topic and gifted Us all with Her Timeless Healing.She injected Her Followers with the "Anti Narc Truth Serum" Savings her Patients 😂 Now We know there are Really genuinely Kind Caring Loving Beautiful People out there' who will never do the things our Abusers have done to Us..We just need to attract that new Frequency and Tribe and Partner..It's a new Reality to be treated with Respect and Love.
Literally everyone I know at this point in my life is either a narcissist, enabler, liar, addict or a failing pleaser. It almost makes me long back to the times I was one of them. Ignorance is bliss! This sanity land sounds like fairy tale!
This sounds a lot like what it's like for people with certain physical health struggles in their lives, dealing with the unsolicited advice from healthy people who mean well but just don't get it, and can't because they themselves never had to struggle with those types of health issues. It's maddening to get platitudes from Sanity Land people.
Yup. I have EDS and having an invisible illness sucks for the same reasons dealing with a narcissist sucks. You have so much that people can't see working against you. You have to work so much harder at life and because people can't see it, they don't understand it. When it comes to narcissists, those are the ones who are shocked when the mask comes off one in front of them.
Yes. People from sanity land just don’t get it. I have been in a malignant narcissistic relationship and it really sucks and no one in my family has ever had to deal with someone like this. I am away from it now. All of this advice from sanity land.. I have experienced. Dr Ramani is awesome! She knows what she is talking about. Thank you!
@@Prez-s9d You've never heard of opinions being qualified? For instance, in expert testimony in court; for insurance valuations, in lending appraisals. It's a widespread practice with extensive history in many industries. Perhaps your experience is limited. Let me know to which opinion of mine you are referring, and I'll let you know to what degree I'm qualified. Of course in general; my opinon carries at least as much weight as yours.
I know the feeling Dr. Ramani! It comes from people who think they are smarter or want to save/help you. I think the sanity land people are also partly narcissistic.
PS all survivors will know we've tried everything, in every way, multiple times, over and over again....before restricting ourselves to fawn, fight or flight in a more chronic way...
I was fostered into a family where a narcissist ruled with his fists. One day, I found my foster mom sitting in the stairwell, her face battered and freshly bruised. In that moment I seemed to muster the courage to ask her a question that had lived in my mind for over a dozen years… “ Mom, WHY do you stay? “ She lifted her face up to me, her eyes nearly swollen shut from crying, and being beaten, and she replied in a single sentence that I’d never forget. She said, “ Because being with him is less scary than being alone. “. I get it…. and believe to help we first need to listen. Thank you Dr. Purohit for helping us to see that need more clearly. ❤
This topic is so untouched.....i cannot tell how grateful i am to have found your channel and education about the limits of NPD ....it has made so many things better and less pressuring and actually like only way i can continue to work and earn money🙏🙏
Sometimes I can't stomach being with people who have lived these privileged sheltered lives where they have never been harmed, betrayed, or manipulated. They are uninteresting, honestly. Like two dimensional almost. I interact politely with them, but would never, ever let them close to me. 😅
To call people who don't have narcissism in their lives or have never experienced it "uninteresting" sounds like the Aesop's tale of the fox and the sour grapes. Those people are blessed and you must realize you can't go to them for advice.
@@pamelamoore6239 That's because you lack the necessary persective. You don't know, what you don't know. That's OK, you can't understand everything in the world. I wonder...why do you think they are seeking your advice on something? What does being interesting have to do with giving advice? Apples and oranges.
At 40, Through Dr. Ramani, I first learnt my dad is a covert narcissist, my sister & my mother have always been enablers & I love them all regardless, that I've a pattern of finding myself in narcissistic relationships due to trauma, that my last relationship was the worst, that everyone is manipulative, that I should love myself, & that I should appreciate the few good people in my life. At 40, I've started setting boundaries, cutting off relationships & working on the patterns of self-gaslighting...
Thank you!! What a breathe of fresh air. It’s so patronizing when I hear advice from people that have had a front row seat to me “co-parenting” with my kid’s father. My mom keeps saying,” Can you tell him…maybe if you say this…” She reads your books! It’s truly upsetting and isolating. I’m learning to zip it. Thank Goddess for you, Dr. R. We need you and your reminders. Big hugs 🫂
Thank you Dr I appreciated hearing this. Your words were honest and a comfort for anyone suffering and finding it painfully difficult to endure living with a narcissist. I am sorry that you yourself are experiencing such difficult circumstances and hope that somehow in someway strength to get through such times is found
I feel so validated that someone as educated and experienced as Dr. Ramani still experiences this "wow, you must think I'm dumb," interaction on the regular. People need to learn the value of the question "what have you tried, so far?" Vs. giving insultingly obvious suggestions. In any situation. Interpersonal issues? What have you tried, so far? Broken computer? What have you tried so far? Can't keep the house clean? What have you tried, so far? The obvious suggestions we run into are a silencing mechanic
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have lost a few friendships because of former friends giving advice that would never work. They didn’t get it and would tell me “I don’t know how to help you” I would tell them I didn’t ask for help just for someone to listen. My marriage ended 6 1/2 years ago and looking back I’m glad some of those friends are gone.
Thank you, Dr Ramani. This is exactly what I needed to hear this morning. I was raised by a covert narcissist mother and currently in a terrible situation at work. My new boss is narcissistic, but surrounded by a team of enablers. I work remotely, so I don’t spend much time with her, but I walk on egg shells, afraid I’ll say or do something that triggers her anger. It such a toxic environment. I’ve gone to HR, and they just give “sane” solutions. Like, “have you tried talking to her?” Or suggesting “daily check ins” so my boss and I can build a relationship. Lol. I’ve tried all that and things have just gotten worse. Sanity Land just doesn’t get it. And the team has just learned to navigate around her and the company dysfunction. I can’t let myself become one of those people. 😢
Yes, yes, yes! You hit the nail on the head! This is why isolation has been my friend. Until I heal enough to stand in sanity land and be good, no thank you.
Thanks Doc, I'm with you on the feelings about people from sanity world... They just don't get it ! I wish it were that easy, it is NOT... thanks for everything, you rock !🤗
And yes the contrast of experiencing nice companionship in "normal and nice" lives can make the return to your own abusive household ten times worse...because you've seen again how life could have also played out if it weren't for the toxic people we allowed into our lives...
I just saw this play out on UA-cam (unrelated subject). A well intended youtuber (I know, I know) introduced another youtuber and by the comments they weren't received well. These are very touchy times and for good cause. The advice was just mind-blowing. I was relieved that those who tuned in agreed within the community they were reaching out to. These channels and the communities we form are so essential.
This reminds me of people who like to pull out the inane; "you teach people how to treat you. " 🤔 I flip that. I say, "I think people who say, 'you teach people how to treat you' are enabling people who have the life philosophy of 'I try to see what I can get away with for the people in my life until they push back.'" And if they're enabling the behavior, they may be acting that way, too. Finally, I'm not anyone's Mama. If I 'have' to teach someone how to treat me - a grown adult? - that's a problem.
It took me yeeeeears to stop smoking. Why? Partly because when I decided I wanted to, I thought about EVERYthing I would be giving up. EVERY SINGLE PERSON I KNEW was also a cigarette smoker. People I loved dearly. My religious friends, my intellectual friends, my fun friends, etc.... when I finally decided to stop smoking in order to take care of my personal health first I very quickly realized that I couldn't handle being around the smoke anymore - it was hurting my lungs that I was so desperately trying to heal. When I stopped I couldn't get a breath past the bottom of my throat. I felt like I was going to die. I decided to live. When I finally made up my heart about it, it became so easy to just stop. I lost every single person I had in my life at that time. My life changed dramatically and for the better. After 3 years I could finally get a full breath I could feel all the way to the bottom of my lungs 😊 You may ask so how does this relate to this video information...... Think of other people's opinions as smoke.
I had a similar thing happen to me with wheat. People made jokes and some tried to force me to eat wheat. I finally decided my health came first and stuck to my no wheat diet. It payed off, now I can actually eat a little wheat and other things such as dairy which used to make me sick. Take care of yourself first, the heck with them.
As usual this really made me think. This has happened to me, but I realize I'm also guilty of doing this to a person in my family who's married to a narcissist. I'm not going to do it again. And I'm going to stop and think before I ever offer obvious advice (or any) again. Thank you Dr. Ramani. 🙏🙏🙏
I’m sorry Dr. Ramani. Forgive me. You sound like me talking and I laughed through your examples of what sanity land suggested to solve the problem. Omg. So many times I go through this. Thank you for talking about it. The roller coaster ride of the trauma bond is one hell of a ride they wouldn’t want to take. Forget holding on to your hat. Hold on to your teeth! I lean more toward getting rest from this in no man’s land. Sanity land ends up being insanity land because they still don’t know what they are talking about and its frustrating to hear.
You are allowed to love or hate or ignore people based on how they have treated you or treating you. And you don't have to budge to other people's notion of how you should behave based on some societal expectations. Sane people should respect that boundary and your decision. Most sane healthy people think that everyone's parents are like their parents, everyone's siblings are like their siblings and everyone else's circle of friends are like theirs, they always expect that you ignore and move on. I have tried to keep my distance away from certain toxic people in my circle because of my history with them. And whenever i say please don't do something because it impacts me they will exactly do that thing in a few days or if i ignore them, they will strike up a conversation to bait me into a conversation and if i react they will accuse me of overreacting and i should forget what they did or i shouldn't think too much about those things. I'm happy to have learnt about narcissism. Thank you.
Dear Dr. Ramani, Thank you so much for the kind, generous help that you have given and continue to give to so many thousands of us who are in, or have been in, one or more narcissistic relationships. Thank you for the rare and precious gift of empathy, and validation you give. There is nothing else that comforts and upbuilds in just the same way. As we navigate through the varying levels and types of deception, treachery and danger we are experiencing or have experienced, it is such a blessing to know there is someone like yourself who is advocating for us and helping to point out the various sticks and other harmful things we might step on or into in this deep mud pit we are trying to work our way out of and clean up from.
It can be very frustrating to hear people from Sanity Land tell me what to do... I felt like, at the time, they are almost accusing me that it's my fault that I haven't thought of ways to try and get away from the narcissist (Which I eventually did, thank goodness). When I did reject their advice by saying "OH REALLY??!! Oh gee why didn't I think of that?" they'd ask me why I was being so sarcastic and that they were only trying to be helpful. That's why I stay away from sanity land, their tickets are too expensive, their staff isn't very helpful and their entertainment is not worth it.
Brilliant. As we navigate living in and healing from narcissistic relationships, it's critical to understand and keep in mind that people from both camps, Sanity Land and Narcissism Land, are going to have very different view points and experiences that dictate the advice they give. Sane advice only works in Sanity Land.
The one that gets me every time "just leave, you deserve better". Yes I know, I've learnt that I deserve to be treated better but it's been 13 years it's not as simple as "just leave" or "cut contact with them". I've tried several times over the years but every time I end up getting sucked back in. Doesn't mean I'll stop trying to escape but also just because I keep getting sucked back in doesn't mean I'm "not trying".
This hit hard. People really don’t understand what those in narcissistic abuse goes through. And I really don’t think they care. I’ve learned that people don’t care about anything until it affects them. Sadly that’s the world in which we live in. If it that easy to do the things they are suggesting, none of us would be in these bad, toxic, abusive situations. Like the saying goes it looks different when you’re on the outside looking in.
I've been in many insane narcissistic relationships, so when kind people are nice to me, I'm so touched, I cry. I cleared out ALL the brutes and now have a secure, strong gate to keep me safe. Thank you, Dr. Ramani for sharing your sanity and wisdom. I appreciate you so much!! I am eternally grateful to you.
I have found that not all people with a lack of experience with narcissists live exclusively in "sanity land." Only the ones who also lack the capacity to recognize that their experiences aren't EVERYONE'S experiences. The "sanity land" folks carry around a set of blinders that they put on when they encounter situations that don't fit the "sanity land" world view. Because the full real world experience is a whole lot less comfortable and safe.
Right? A bed, regular showers and laundry, a month or two certainly would help. The simple dignity, civility and safety would be wonderful as I keep getting older here. Accountability for what individuals did is never going to happen. Truth is not part of the dynamics and won't be. Wouldn't an apology be nice. The truth sets us all free but that's not gonna happen. Narcissist seem to enjoy your misery and failures. Everything you are saying is exactly what happens to the one who has been the target. Me!!!!
Dr. Ramani that is a genius metaphor. Thank you once again for your support. ( I did chuckle a bit for a second, not to be disrespectful; it’s so true). 🌻❤
ONE..ONE person and the twits( sorry) who do lice in sanity land yet offer advice rather thn ask the OTHER person b4 opening their, 'I'm so wise" mouths bl9w me away. This was great!
Thank you for all the helpful words. Your input touches me deeply and helps validate my experience while bouncing between the two worlds. Sometimes, it's even harder for me differentiate the two worlds. There is no end to crazy making. Again, thank you.
“The selfish person at the core of it…” (The invalidating narc) actually says “you are the crazy one!” And all the other enablers from sanity land simply don’t want to “get it.”
I’m pretty sure Sanity Land is a place where people would apologize without making you feel like you’re the problem and gaslighting is something used for fancy cooking.
@@user7-o9w 😂 Gaslighting for fancy cooking! 😂
I just wish I could turn it around by going to the past and telling myself what I am dealing with. 12 years of narcissist land and I was told back then its not you who is crazy. My wife became a narcissist because of my mother-in-law. I wish i could keep her away before it went south. Have 2 kids in need of a mother, I will still keep in the relationship, I dont have any alternative option. Have to know how to cope myself and she is in therapy and get better with time. I am not saying a full recovery but atleast to be a good mother for the kids.
true
@@Addahasanget full custody immediately. Step up, do what you have to do. Don't let their primary caregiver be a big mark!
@@stacyjaye6350 Dear my kids are in my full custody. She's getting therapy at a relative's place. Its really hard to work & be a caretaker at the same time
People who haven’t lived with a narcissist will never get the powerlessness and despair those relationships bring about.
@@IzabelaWaniek-i1x get your power back and hope then.
It's really frustrating to listen to people who don't get it.
Very.
Do not listen to those who won’t.
My family never got it untill recently just after her outburst. Now they dont what me to stay in the relationship. I have kids and have no alternate. I wish there was another way to move on but there isn't.
Yes. It starts to feel like a part of the problem!
Yeah like when my friend told me my ex narcissist was just marrying the multi-million dollar rich girl because he must really "love her", and that its not at all about the money -
Lets normalize not being liked by people. They can believe what they want.
"Have you talked to them?" This "advice" makes me very frustrated and angry! Thankyou Dr Ramani!
Yes, talking to them is what makes it worse.
In an interview last week, Judith Herman said that her research indicated survivors were angrier at the people who didn't help than at the abuser themselves. I understood.
Oh, I feel this!
Turn anger into indifference. You learned a lesson about people.
@@therollingstone9701 didn't ask for advice.
@@dangelodiane I see, you probably don't know how to turn your anger into something healthier.
I see the problem here.
Have a nice life and don't take advice from anyone, you will go very far with that mindset.
That's because Enablers are Betrayers. They sacrifice you to your known enemy, even when you have told the Enabler that it's an enemy.
You've saved my sanity, I'll never be able to thank you enough for the work you do. Be blessed with the finest the universe has to give.
Yes!!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
She is up there with all the greats of our time.
If there is reward in the next life Dr Romani will be very blessed there.
Dr. Ramani is straight out here saving lives :).
Indeed ❤😊
When inexperienced, uneducated people speak to me like this, I feel like I'm being gaslighted all over again but from a different person. I simply don't talk to anyone about my problems anymore. It's probably not good for me, but neither are some of their "solutions" which can be downright demeaning sometimes.
The "workarounds" are exhausting, debilitating, soul crushing, and eventually shatters lives and quality of life ....
@@kathyparker5009 they truly are and I understand completely how it feels to have a narcissist enlist others to create an even more toxic and harmful situation with others involved making it even more difficult at times. I hope their are people in your life who will offer moments of comfort and peace
You are almost Perfectly describing so many toxic , dysfunctional church settings and relationships . As well as other socially structured settings. You are Spot On Dr. Ramani , again, Thank you !
Oh yes, church people or “spiritual” people ! My entire childhood!😊
Oh, yes! This is my entire church. I reached a point a long time ago where I just despise them. I used to think they were all well-intentioned. I no longer do, after a number of them tried to deliberately obstruct escaping the narcissists and have been instrumental in forcing children into unsupervised clutches of narcissists.
@@phoenixrising5338Narcs love to hide in churches
And most of the time, the Sanity Land people turn into enablers... they just don't get it...
I've been waiting decades to hear somebody else say this.
Sanity land- love it! I have a sort of similar term- charmed life people. Those who have never had their life plans derailed by a problematic person/condition outside of their control. The appropriate response is empathy. What you will feel is judgment.
Between Sanity Land and Narcissistic relationships, I feel there are no quality relationships left.
@@CS-iv8tk typically the fault of feminism that destroyed the family and relationship fabric 😊
Few and far between, but my fellow survivors and I can truly LAUGH in one anothers company - and that helps greatly.
I can’t love this enough. Just experienced this last night for the millionth time. Reached out to my lifelong friend with my heavy heart and she texted back a superficial dismissive platitude. So painfully isolating and disappointing.
@@MB-sg8dx Reach her with a light heart then. She may not like repetitive sob stories.
I've never put into words that frustrated feeling I've had, but you just nailed it!
This is one of the most profound pieces on this experience. I feel like I’m stuck in a horror movie sometimes with a narcissistic family system that just seems to get worse every year. In my case the people from sanity land know each person in the family and are completely charmed by the narcissists and punish me accordingly. It’s so isolating and upsetting, and after a while you start believing you’re the problem.
This is why we keep our stories inside us and maintain our “stage” presence. Not only do they not understand, they don’t want to understand.
8:47 this is so true. It’s one of the reasons why I just don’t say anything anymore because at the end of the day, you start to look crazy for even dealing with these types of individuals.
I have gotten to a place, with the help of all these new revelations about Narcissistic abuse
like I suffered growing up with, of forgiving myself. I forgive myself for going along with what happened, and not fleeing for my life - sooner.
Staying for far too many years in Insanity Land thinking I can show them the way to Sanity Land and we could go there and become happy, HONEST, and sane.
That's why I don't share anything that happened in toxic relationships with others. 🤐
I understand this, but, I have also found conversations with others who have walked the same path to be very rewarding. You can't talk with a sleepwalker about it, but this healing can be reinforced with the sharing of the stories.
@@satorarepo744 It's a nice idea to talk to someone reliable. I hope this heals you.
Oh my gosh, you nailed it! As usual. I loved with this "why don't you just ", and "you should try following thru on your boundaries " for decades before I knew what I was dealing with and still after. I still don't have a good response. Especially when it's folks like therapists or the most hurtful came from crisis intervention folks he pushed me to an attempt at unaliving myself and then called them to pick me up. It just adds so much to the crazy making of it all.
I’ve had this type of situation happen over and over. It’s so frustrating. It’s like another shock wound to hear these normal suggestions from well meaning people. Leaves me sensing that I’m not understood and I am all alone.
Well said ❤
@@LindsayLoo-q5d work on healthier social patterns and you will feel less alone.
@@therollingstone9701 that wasn't helpful. that was placation.
The biggest problem with the people from sanity land is that they expect that everyone automatically operates off the same set of principles and guidelines and cant comprehend that there are people out there who live life wanting to harm other people. Abusers know what they are doing and they get away with it because there is this disbelief from others that people could be like that. And because of that, they genuinely believe the solution must be in the victim's actions.
Yeah, they don't really believe in evil. We've seen it.
YES❤ and it's even worse for those of us who had narcissistic parents/families...I was the scapegoat at 7 yrs old! Oh, and it's still "all my fault". To have Sanity land people STILL agree it's "all my fault" and it's frustrating.
Oh my gosh it's maddening because when you finally vent about it to somebody but that person doesn't understand the situation and they just give you some easy answer as if you're just stupid oh my gosh the most frustrating thing
Amen, Dr. Ramani. People that don't deal with these people have no idea what it's like to live with these kind of personalities.
Exactly or they're narcissists themselves.
Indeed 💯 Perfect timing on this video. Just this week, I realized that it's as if an actual language barrier is preventing me from being able to use logic and reason with these folks! The fact is that they will not be reasonable, and for an actual sane person, this can make you feel crazy. And then they call you the crazy one of course. It's infuriating! I understand why no contact with these people is often the best solution for maintaining one's own mental health ✨️
@@waters-above You're in the wrong, and we both know it. Get healthier social patterns and those feelings of social disconnection will reduce.
Bye.
Shape shiftifters, you can't pin down what it is so you turn yourself into a pretzel trying to please and getting disintegrated piece by piece. There is no logic or reason and that's the problem, no honest open conversation.
@@therollingstone9701 Way to tell me you're a narcissist without saying it! Now go take a long walk off a short pier. Buh-byyyeee 👋
This was said to me: "All you need to do is unconditionally love them."
And then you shout at the top of your lungs ," No, I don't! I don't have to or want to love them unconditionally!"
That makes me want to upchuck. Unconditionally love someone who puts more anbd more conditions on me...SURE, I'll get right on that!
🤮
The “can’t you just” mindset is sooooooo dismissive
Oh and then when you finally tell people about the situation and the abuse they say oh well you chose that person.
The lack of understanding and empathy in sanity land where they blame the victim is even more heartbreaking
😢😢
Luckily I had a support system when my relationship started to become a problem. Unfortunately it took people who were understanding of my situation to learn from their own experience as you described.
@@sharicoburn5475 Because you did choose that person. Choose better or best, stay alone, and you'll be fine.
You will have to be in many different relationships then, until you get to, ‘good, better, or best,’ as you’re saying ☺️ And, yes, sometimes it’s better to just stay alone, and be at peace😅@@therollingstone9701
Or they say, "I never liked them."
My personal favorite came from my mother. "You’ve been defending him for years!"
From what? She thought the sun shone out his *ss. She, on the other hand, had been defending my father.
Of course, I eventually concluded that my father abused everybody in the family and my mother abused the kids. I honestly don't know which was worse -- being a grandiose narcissist's golden child (aka Mini Me) or a malignant narcissist's scapegoat.
@@SuzannaLiessa oh, he's probably a nice guy. You're angry because he's an ex.
Let it go 😊
I love you doctor ramani. You are so real. You say what I'm thinking
With narcissistic abuse, the disturbing ricocheting in one’s mind seems to often be from multiple others on a spectrum of abusers themselves to those who just don’t get it . . .
Sanityland is where most therapists reside.
Not the ones I've seen they don't know sh** about narcissistic abuse
Yes! I went to therapy during a bad post separation abuse. He tried to teach me what red flags were 😒 meanwhile I'm here looking for a metal door because I'm scared of my ex breaking in
Many therapists are narcissists. Undeveloped children.
DON'T WE WISH!
@@en2995 RIGHT??? They're clueless.
As usual dr ramani shows up as the true friend. Someone who's going through the same things as us and is honest about it.
She reflects my emotions when dealing with these sorts of people. Everyone should listen to her. Bravo! Thank you Dr!
Just told, very sternly, “you are advised to just cooperate with him.” Courts and judicial are so unaware and refuse to give way to reason
That is the absolute worst. I remember that period of time like it was yesterday. I left my ex-husband when my youngest was just 3, and had to deal with a legal nightmare for the next 15 years. It was nothing short of hell.
I am so sorry you are having to go through that. As if being a parent wasn't hard enough... wishing you the strength, resilience, and courage to survive the legal nightmare so you can thrive in the chapters that follow 🫶🙏
Not unaware. Deliberately evil.
That's because the system was built by Narkys, to benefit Narkys.
@@njay4361 poor guy, I feel his pain. I hope he's fine.
@@masquarra When courts tell a mother that she has to cooperate, that clearly indicated that she is not cooperative. Co parenting is very easy but it is not when someone does not want to cooperate.
I'm just applying common sense and logic to the situation.
I have some good mantras for narc situations like these. Try this one: I have outgrown the need for validation.
"I have outgrown the need for validation! "🎉❤ I am going to repeat that to myself out loud until I live it! Thank you! I often have to remind myself of that. Hugs!
What does outgrowing validation have to do with Narky abuse? When someone gives you a black eye, does that mantra help you?
The only thing we need to validate are our own feelings. Nothing else matters.
Dr R is such an Expert on this topic and gifted Us all with Her Timeless Healing.She injected Her Followers with the "Anti Narc Truth Serum" Savings her Patients 😂 Now We know there are Really genuinely Kind Caring Loving Beautiful People out there' who will never do the things our Abusers have done to Us..We just need to attract that new Frequency and Tribe and Partner..It's a new Reality to be treated with Respect and Love.
Literally everyone I know at this point in my life is either a narcissist, enabler, liar, addict or a failing pleaser. It almost makes me long back to the times I was one of them. Ignorance is bliss! This sanity land sounds like fairy tale!
This sounds a lot like what it's like for people with certain physical health struggles in their lives, dealing with the unsolicited advice from healthy people who mean well but just don't get it, and can't because they themselves never had to struggle with those types of health issues. It's maddening to get platitudes from Sanity Land people.
Yup. I have EDS and having an invisible illness sucks for the same reasons dealing with a narcissist sucks. You have so much that people can't see working against you. You have to work so much harder at life and because people can't see it, they don't understand it. When it comes to narcissists, those are the ones who are shocked when the mask comes off one in front of them.
Thank you Dr. Ramani, you totally get it.
Thank you! Thank you! 🙏🏻
We aren’t crazy. They NEED us to believe we are!
Yes. People from sanity land just don’t get it. I have been in a malignant narcissistic relationship and it really sucks and no one in my family has ever had to deal with someone like this. I am away from it now. All of this advice from sanity land.. I have experienced. Dr Ramani is awesome! She knows what she is talking about. Thank you!
@@Prez-s9d Oh baloney. What makes you think that your opinion is qualified?
@@Prez-s9d You've never heard of opinions being qualified? For instance, in expert testimony in court; for insurance valuations, in lending appraisals. It's a widespread practice with extensive history in many industries. Perhaps your experience is limited.
Let me know to which opinion of mine you are referring, and I'll let you know to what degree I'm qualified. Of course in general; my opinon carries at least as much weight as yours.
This is good! ❤
Thank you for the validation.
& we are not alone. ❤
@@katiebabes57251 no, you're an army of 20 percent of population.
I know the feeling Dr. Ramani! It comes from people who think they are smarter or want to save/help you. I think the sanity land people are also partly narcissistic.
PS all survivors will know we've tried everything, in every way, multiple times, over and over again....before restricting ourselves to fawn, fight or flight in a more chronic way...
Fight, flight, freeze, fawn, fake
Yes, we do
I swear to God, I can't deal with unsolicited advice anymore. I feel like exploding at this point.
I was fostered into a family where a narcissist ruled with his fists. One day, I found my foster mom sitting in the stairwell, her face battered and freshly bruised. In that moment I seemed to muster the courage to ask her a question that had lived in my mind for over a dozen years… “ Mom, WHY do you stay? “
She lifted her face up to me, her eyes nearly swollen shut from crying, and being beaten, and she replied in a single sentence that I’d never forget. She said, “ Because being with him is less scary than being alone. “.
I get it…. and believe to help we first need to listen. Thank you Dr. Purohit for helping us to see that need more clearly. ❤
The jarring effect & grief of ping-ponging back and forth between narcissism & “sanity land” is so painful and heavy. Thank you for verbalizing this
This topic is so untouched.....i cannot tell how grateful i am to have found your channel and education about the limits of NPD ....it has made so many things better and less pressuring and actually like only way i can continue to work and earn money🙏🙏
Sometimes I can't stomach being with people who have lived these privileged sheltered lives where they have never been harmed, betrayed, or manipulated. They are uninteresting, honestly. Like two dimensional almost. I interact politely with them, but would never, ever let them close to me. 😅
To call people who don't have narcissism in their lives or have never experienced it "uninteresting" sounds like the Aesop's tale of the fox and the sour grapes. Those people are blessed and you must realize you can't go to them for advice.
@@pamelamoore6239 That's because you lack the necessary persective. You don't know, what you don't know. That's OK, you can't understand everything in the world. I wonder...why do you think they are seeking your advice on something? What does being interesting have to do with giving advice? Apples and oranges.
At 40, Through Dr. Ramani, I first learnt my dad is a covert narcissist, my sister & my mother have always been enablers & I love them all regardless, that I've a pattern of finding myself in narcissistic relationships due to trauma, that my last relationship was the worst, that everyone is manipulative, that I should love myself, & that I should appreciate the few good people in my life. At 40, I've started setting boundaries, cutting off relationships & working on the patterns of self-gaslighting...
Dr Ramani. THIS is MY LIFE
Or it Was. My health collapsed after this
Sanity land to me is really gaslighting invalidating flying monkey enablers land… I’d rather be in truth land. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤❤❤
That supposed sanityland sometimes hides atrocities and horrors
Yup. Shame hits them hard, too.
Yup, Shame hits them hard, too.
Thank you!! What a breathe of fresh air. It’s so patronizing when I hear advice from people that have had a front row seat to me “co-parenting” with my kid’s father. My mom keeps saying,” Can you tell him…maybe if you say this…” She reads your books! It’s truly upsetting and isolating. I’m learning to zip it. Thank Goddess for you, Dr. R. We need you and your reminders. Big hugs 🫂
Thank you Dr I appreciated hearing this. Your words were honest and a comfort for anyone suffering and finding it painfully difficult to endure living with a narcissist. I am sorry that you yourself are experiencing such difficult circumstances and hope that somehow in someway strength to get through such times is found
I feel so validated that someone as educated and experienced as Dr. Ramani still experiences this "wow, you must think I'm dumb," interaction on the regular.
People need to learn the value of the question "what have you tried, so far?" Vs. giving insultingly obvious suggestions.
In any situation.
Interpersonal issues? What have you tried, so far?
Broken computer? What have you tried so far?
Can't keep the house clean? What have you tried, so far?
The obvious suggestions we run into are a silencing mechanic
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have lost a few friendships because of former friends giving advice that would never work. They didn’t get it and would tell me “I don’t know how to help you” I would tell them I didn’t ask for help just for someone to listen. My marriage ended 6 1/2 years ago and looking back I’m glad some of those friends are gone.
Thank you, Dr Ramani. This is exactly what I needed to hear this morning. I was raised by a covert narcissist mother and currently in a terrible situation at work. My new boss is narcissistic, but surrounded by a team of enablers. I work remotely, so I don’t spend much time with her, but I walk on egg shells, afraid I’ll say or do something that triggers her anger. It such a toxic environment. I’ve gone to HR, and they just give “sane” solutions. Like, “have you tried talking to her?” Or suggesting “daily check ins” so my boss and I can build a relationship. Lol. I’ve tried all that and things have just gotten worse. Sanity Land just doesn’t get it. And the team has just learned to navigate around her and the company dysfunction. I can’t let myself become one of those people. 😢
Yes, yes, yes! You hit the nail on the head! This is why isolation has been my friend. Until I heal enough to stand in sanity land and be good, no thank you.
Yep. Spot on. I always take the long way home
Thanks Doc, I'm with you on the feelings about people from sanity world... They just don't get it ! I wish it were that easy, it is NOT... thanks for everything, you rock !🤗
Just say "No sh*T, Sherlock".
And yes the contrast of experiencing nice companionship in "normal and nice" lives can make the return to your own abusive household ten times worse...because you've seen again how life could have also played out if it weren't for the toxic people we allowed into our lives...
Very good conclusion lead up stating you end up ultimately being isolated because it's just easier. Good video on this angle.
I just saw this play out on UA-cam (unrelated subject). A well intended youtuber (I know, I know) introduced another youtuber and by the comments they weren't received well. These are very touchy times and for good cause. The advice was just mind-blowing. I was relieved that those who tuned in agreed within the community they were reaching out to.
These channels and the communities we form are so essential.
You have taught me so much, thank you !!
My cousin said "Well you allow it."
This reminds me of people who like to pull out the inane; "you teach people how to treat you. " 🤔
I flip that. I say, "I think people who say, 'you teach people how to treat you' are enabling people who have the life philosophy of 'I try to see what I can get away with for the people in my life until they push back.'"
And if they're enabling the behavior, they may be acting that way, too.
Finally, I'm not anyone's Mama. If I 'have' to teach someone how to treat me - a grown adult? - that's a problem.
@@Neresdipity Not my job, I agree.
Grrr. Bye-bye, Flying Monkey Cousin.
You are spot on!!!!
It calmes my soul
You explain so well, finally I felt excepted
It took me yeeeeears to stop smoking. Why? Partly because when I decided I wanted to, I thought about EVERYthing I would be giving up. EVERY SINGLE PERSON I KNEW was also a cigarette smoker. People I loved dearly. My religious friends, my intellectual friends, my fun friends, etc.... when I finally decided to stop smoking in order to take care of my personal health first I very quickly realized that I couldn't handle being around the smoke anymore - it was hurting my lungs that I was so desperately trying to heal. When I stopped I couldn't get a breath past the bottom of my throat. I felt like I was going to die. I decided to live. When I finally made up my heart about it, it became so easy to just stop. I lost every single person I had in my life at that time. My life changed dramatically and for the better. After 3 years I could finally get a full breath I could feel all the way to the bottom of my lungs 😊
You may ask so how does this relate to this video information...... Think of other people's opinions as smoke.
I had a similar thing happen to me with wheat. People made jokes and some tried to force me to eat wheat. I finally decided my health came first and stuck to my no wheat diet. It payed off, now I can actually eat a little wheat and other things such as dairy which used to make me sick. Take care of yourself first, the heck with them.
As usual this really made me think. This has happened to me, but I realize I'm also guilty of doing this to a person in my family who's married to a narcissist. I'm not going to do it again. And I'm going to stop and think before I ever offer obvious advice (or any) again. Thank you Dr. Ramani. 🙏🙏🙏
I’m sorry Dr. Ramani. Forgive me. You sound like me talking and I laughed through your examples of what sanity land suggested to solve the problem. Omg. So many times I go through this. Thank you for talking about it. The roller coaster ride of the trauma bond is one hell of a ride they wouldn’t want to take. Forget holding on to your hat. Hold on to your teeth! I lean more toward getting rest from this in no man’s land. Sanity land ends up being insanity land because they still don’t know what they are talking about and its frustrating to hear.
You are allowed to love or hate or ignore people based on how they have treated you or treating you. And you don't have to budge to other people's notion of how you should behave based on some societal expectations. Sane people should respect that boundary and your decision.
Most sane healthy people think that everyone's parents are like their parents, everyone's siblings are like their siblings and everyone else's circle of friends are like theirs, they always expect that you ignore and move on. I have tried to keep my distance away from certain toxic people in my circle because of my history with them. And whenever i say please don't do something because it impacts me they will exactly do that thing in a few days or if i ignore them, they will strike up a conversation to bait me into a conversation and if i react they will accuse me of overreacting and i should forget what they did or i shouldn't think too much about those things. I'm happy to have learnt about narcissism. Thank you.
Dear Dr. Ramani, Thank you so much for the kind, generous help that you have given and continue to give to so many thousands of us who are in, or have been in, one or more narcissistic relationships. Thank you for the rare and precious gift of empathy, and validation you give. There is nothing else that comforts and upbuilds in just the same way. As we navigate through the varying levels and types of deception, treachery and danger we are experiencing or have experienced, it is such a blessing to know there is someone like yourself who is advocating for us and helping to point out the various sticks and other harmful things we might step on or into in this deep mud pit we are trying to work our way out of and clean up from.
It can be very frustrating to hear people from Sanity Land tell me what to do... I felt like, at the time, they are almost accusing me that it's my fault that I haven't thought of ways to try and get away from the narcissist (Which I eventually did, thank goodness). When I did reject their advice by saying "OH REALLY??!! Oh gee why didn't I think of that?" they'd ask me why I was being so sarcastic and that they were only trying to be helpful. That's why I stay away from sanity land, their tickets are too expensive, their staff isn't very helpful and their entertainment is not worth it.
Brilliant. As we navigate living in and healing from narcissistic relationships, it's critical to understand and keep in mind that people from both camps, Sanity Land and Narcissism Land, are going to have very different view points and experiences that dictate the advice they give. Sane advice only works in Sanity Land.
The one that gets me every time "just leave, you deserve better". Yes I know, I've learnt that I deserve to be treated better but it's been 13 years it's not as simple as "just leave" or "cut contact with them". I've tried several times over the years but every time I end up getting sucked back in. Doesn't mean I'll stop trying to escape but also just because I keep getting sucked back in doesn't mean I'm "not trying".
thank you, thank you, thank you. Again and again, you help me stay levelheaded.
I loved this do much. Thanks for making me laugh 😃
"Things are much simpler in Sanity Land." Ha! Ain't that the truth, though.
This hit hard. People really don’t understand what those in narcissistic abuse goes through. And I really don’t think they care. I’ve learned that people don’t care about anything until it affects them. Sadly that’s the world in which we live in. If it that easy to do the things they are suggesting, none of us would be in these bad, toxic, abusive situations. Like the saying goes it looks different when you’re on the outside looking in.
Very important, "don't gaslighting " thanks for sharing. Peace and blessings to everyone 🙏
I've been in many insane narcissistic relationships, so when kind people are nice to me, I'm so touched, I cry. I cleared out ALL the brutes and now have a secure, strong gate to keep me safe. Thank you, Dr. Ramani for sharing your sanity and wisdom. I appreciate you so much!! I am eternally grateful to you.
I have found that not all people with a lack of experience with narcissists live exclusively in "sanity land." Only the ones who also lack the capacity to recognize that their experiences aren't EVERYONE'S experiences. The "sanity land" folks carry around a set of blinders that they put on when they encounter situations that don't fit the "sanity land" world view. Because the full real world experience is a whole lot less comfortable and safe.
Right? A bed, regular showers and laundry, a month or two certainly would help. The simple dignity, civility and safety would be wonderful as I keep getting older here. Accountability for what individuals did is never going to happen. Truth is not part of the dynamics and won't be. Wouldn't an apology be nice. The truth sets us all free but that's not gonna happen. Narcissist seem to enjoy your misery and failures. Everything you are saying is exactly what happens to the one who has been the target. Me!!!!
Us.
This is such a great video and such a great validation and ideas. Thank you so much, Dr.
I just love you so much ❤
This might be your best video ever.
Inexperience is its own form of arrogance if advice is on the line
You are such a blessing. Thankyou.💚
Good advice, lesson, examples. Thanks
Dr. Ramani that is a genius metaphor. Thank you once again for your support.
( I did chuckle a bit for a second, not to be disrespectful; it’s so true). 🌻❤
Thank you Dr. Ramani
Sanity land n Narcissistic land , resonates so much .
ONE..ONE person and the twits( sorry) who do lice in sanity land yet offer advice rather thn ask the OTHER person b4 opening their, 'I'm so wise" mouths bl9w me away.
This was great!
I’ve gotten so many “why don’t you just leave” throughout my life I’ve lost count 🙄
It's amazing how many times you see and hear this stupid, ignorant advice.
Leaving is usually less safe than staying.
Thank you so much for your deep insight into this dysfunctional land.
Thank you for all the helpful words. Your input touches me deeply and helps validate my experience while bouncing between the two worlds. Sometimes, it's even harder for me differentiate the two worlds. There is no end to crazy making. Again, thank you.
“The selfish person at the core of it…” (The invalidating narc) actually says “you are the crazy one!” And all the other enablers from sanity land simply don’t want to “get it.”