The super-marginal stuff is for the Nuzlocke community. The difference between barely surviving a hit and not can the difference between not losing one of your mons and resetting your whole run.
Some of the reason why defense is scored so low compared to competitive is that you aren't fully healing after every fight. You're not fighting just a few guys. You are going through hundreds of fights, many of which wears you down. The best attacking pokemon goes through the game quickly. One-shotting everything and usually run out of pp without taking damage. Slow, defensive pokemon act 2nd, effectively doubling the gameplay time assuming they still one-shot. And they take hits often, meaning you have to heal well before you run out of pp, slowing you down even more. It's nice that weezing can't really hurt you. But you still take damage, and you have roughly 30 more pokemon to take damage from before getting to the next town. As compared to Alakazam who just confusions and psybeams through the route without breaking a sweat.
If a slow mon has low atk values you also spend more PP because of KOing in around an extra turn. Cheese is just completely right about playthroughs, besides the satisfaction of "feeling" like you're using strategy there are mostly cons to bad playthrough pokémon. Some "tanky" mons don't tank well also, like when I played DP a milliion years ago so many things were super-effective against Torterra so being slow let opponents not only get a turn but deal double damage often. The idea that you can shell smash before every fight in newer gens is false too because you only have 15 PP. I generally liked grass-types the best as a kid so it hurt being resisted by so many things as well
@@TeeKayDee right. If you're a sweeper, you simply go first and OHKO them. If you're slow and defensive, it takes 4x as long because your opponent goes first and hits you. Then you go and not OHKO. Then your opponent hits you again. And then you kill them. And after 10 trainers, the offensive mon took no damage at all, and the defensive mon, who's supposed to take more hits, is dying for the third time and needs to be healed again. Meanwhile, just like the rival in 1st gen, you're miles ahead fighting your 23rd trainer with your offensive mon by the time the defensive one beats your 10th trainer. And you're right. It feels nice to use strategies, but it actually makes the fight worse. Just sweep, and you still feel good because you're living out a power fantasy. It's a win-win.
Very much this. If you have, say, Infernape, Snorlax, and Steelix. If you have to fight, say, 15 reasonably levelled pokemon clearing out a gym. Infernape can just KO all 15, with maybe a potion or two between fights if it misses one hit KOs on very bulky enemies or takes some priority or other chip damage. It's never being attacked by anything offensive, it's just killing everything. Even a lot of "bad" matchups work out, because that water type just dies to Close Combat. If you need a pokemon center between, it's almost certainly more for PP than HP. Snorlax is also KOing everything... in a 1v1. However, because it is almost always going second, it it taking damage, it is getting statuses, it needs tons of breaks to heal between fights. Despite being much more bulky than Infernape, because it is actually being hit, it gets worn down quickly, and can end up in situations where it can't even solo someone, because while it could beat all four of these pokemon 1v1, by the fourth one it is just gonna die because of the damage it has taken thus far. It is also much more vulnerable to Fighting types or coverage than Infernape is to Water or Ground, because all those moves are actually going to be used. And then Steelix is even worse off than Snorlax, because at LEAST Snorlax is only getting hit once, because it's killing everything when it actually does attack. Steelix isn't, Steelix is taking two or three attacks every fight. It is getting statused and debuffed to hell, it is getting crit, flinched, sent to Sand Attack, Confuse Ray, and Bite hell. Steelix is going to need constant babying to just clear single encounters, let alone encounters in sequence, even though its bulk is so high, and it probably just loses to water types, even with a level advantage because it is taking multiple attacks from them. And then there's, like, Jumpluff. Can Jumpluff beat these enemies? Probably some of them. There's whatever long list of contexts, scenarios, and targets that your lockdown just doesn't work on, but, probably a lot of them it does. But it's gonna take forever, and good god you have better things to do with your life than watch a Jumpluff torture an NPC trainer to death over the course of a half hour and then smile and realize that was the first of four trainers.
Cheese doesn't want you guys to know that I managed to bribe him to temporarily place Umbreon at the top of S in the Uncut Video. For one glorious moment all Eeveelutions were top tier, and it was thanks to the Big Eevee Party! GO EEVEE!
Ngl I found it kinda find it funny that the developers came onto your stream just for you to tell them that Ninetales and Chikorita are still bad 😂. Based Cheese strikes again.
So essentially this tierlist has the mentality, "i wanna be a soft speed runner." With the good ol' Fast and strong damage dealer v.s tank damage dealer. Still good explanations through stats and availability Fair enough, i imagine in a nuzlocke a lot of these rankings change and improve or get worse. But we can always agree, the references are great.
That's the jist of it. Crystal Legacy is a better game to play than vanilla but it isn't much harder than it either. So unless you Challege yourself with house rulse defense play isn't really needed. It works, I beat CL with Ledian on my team, but it's not like I couldn't have done better with just 6 sweepers.
The only real difference for nuzlockes is an even harder focus on availability (the pokemon you can reliably get are more helpful than the ones you don't, and that 1% Bagon or whatever just isn't happening), the general buff to pokemon with intimidate (bulk is for schmucks, pros use intimidate to give bulk to their offensive pokemon), and more intrinsic value for typing, and especially immunities because switching in becomes more difficult to secure, and resists/immunities matter more. Not really bulk, bulky pokemon tend to be pretty inherently niche picks that are on a team to deal with one specific target that you don't otherwise have the tools for. Slow pokemon lose more HP, which is more precious in a nuzlocke. Pokemon with things like regenerator, drain moves, ect fill this niche better than defensive pokemon ever could. Also, people undervalue aggressively sac'ing garbage to clean switch offensive pokemon. A level 3 pidgey may well be better as a defensive option than your Chansey or whatever. And I guess a slight elevation of hard stall/indirect damage strategies, because you're less of the one getting trolled watching a Whimsicott slowly torture a trainer to death if you're getting the satisfaction of doing it in a nuzlocke. Slightly. I did say "less" the one getting trolled. You're still absolutely the victim of this exchange.
Immunities, bulk and switch synergies will typically get better any time something is challenging. Playing through underleveled and certain nuzlocke variants (like littlelockes) are good examples. Unless your objective is to beat the game as quickly as possible, there is no particular loss in using a slower strategy and, in cases where you cannot or are unwilling to reset, they are worthwhile if they have a higher conversion rate.
Cheese, did you know that you have the exact same philosophy like Barry from Pokémon Platinum when it comes to ingame performance? I quote: "Oh, hey! When we smacked together, a brilliant flash of inspiration came to me! An easy way to become a great Trainer! Yeah, that! All right. Listen close... Make certain all your attacks hit! Avoid enemy attacks for sure! You do that, you’d never lose! You’d be the invincible Trainer!"
This was a fun ride. I can't wait when Cheese has do to a Tier List of OG Crystal and be like "Dear lord... this game is HORRIBLE! WHO PUT THESE MONS SO FAR BEHIND?!"
@@smergthedargon8974 Gold and Silver you mean. He hasn't and will not do Crystal... can't blame him, it would have been an inferior tier list compare to this one.
Another banger cheese. Idk how your channel has not blown up yet. Your style of humor and edits are great, definitely not grass type. Keep it up brother!
dear chees, I don't know how to say this without sounding mean but I really love how you have grown and get better with each video you make. Who knows what your limits are! (I know the "better" the videos are, the more work you need to put in, like graphics and cuts and stuff, and I appreciate it a lot. Im not saying stuff like "it can be better" I love you for who you are, of course.) Even if I have seen you rank johto mons a fair couple of times, you make every time unique and a pleasure to watch. I can't thank you enough for just how wonderful you are. You are awesome!
So how good would Bellossom be if it was min-maxed but still pure grass? Something insane like 150 Special Attack, 111 speed. (So a spread of 75/35/35/150/74/111) But it's still stuck with it's current move pool.
Not to mention that Game Freak battles are usually slow as fuck. Offensive pokèmon oneshotting everything means you have to waste less time reading useless text prompts. Oh how i wish these games were as smooth as the Persona games...
i tried to use ootachi in my crystal vc playthrough, and my beloved scarf was falling off around bugsy. in comparison to my other team members, who were a bayleef, a sandshrew, and probably a few bugs. ootachi just does not have any stats whatsoever
Get this man nominated for up and coming PokeTuber at this year’s Pokémon Awards by subbing y’all!! I’ve been watching for years and he deserves it. Yet another banger.
As a longtime fan, I think this is one of your funniest tier lists yet, Cheese. Your streams also made me wish so badly that the availability changes for Crystal Legacy were applied to HGSS.
It's cool to see how you improve with every tier list you make. The amount of and diversity in special graphics is fantastic. Some even look like real life! Laughed out loud so many times. One Pokémon whose placing I always wonder about is Arbok. Shouldn't 80 speed, 95 attack, early availability and early evolution put it handily above its poisonous comrades Weezing and Muk? ̶I̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶i̶m̶a̶g̶i̶n̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶b̶a̶r̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶g̶o̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶D̶-̶t̶i̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶e̶a̶r̶l̶y̶ ̶g̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶i̶c̶e̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶p̶o̶r̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶e̶n̶e̶m̶y̶ ̶P̶o̶k̶é̶m̶o̶n̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶s̶i̶s̶t̶ ̶p̶o̶i̶s̶o̶n̶.̶ After checking Ekans' BST and natural learn set, yeah, it's definitely among Johto's Finest. Of course I've never used it once in my life so it's just my feeling.
Poison also happens to be a terrible offensive type. Even with decent moves, Arbok doesn't take hits and because it's a poison it doesn't do damage. It's part of why this video is so off about grass types.
Like half the bugs in modern games are fall off garbage and the others are an attempt to remake Heracross or at least a balanced Venomoth. BW had a lot of cool bugs and dark was catching on so they were almost worth it, but I think outside of Megahorn everything in 4 was useless. Some recent games are hit or miss if they include a nice bug or it is just an obligation to add something of every type or it just doesn't work out.
That's not true, every gen has at least one bug that does something unique, for the most part anyways. Gen 3 has Ninjask (speed boost) and Shedinja (Wonder Guard), Gen 4 has Skorupi (which I believe is the only bug type that loses the bug type on evolving), and Wormadam (which can have 3 different types), Gen 5 has uh all it's bug types honestly, Volcarona (evolves crazy late has really damn, good stats, gets firey dance), Gensect (Mythical, Techno Blast giving really good coverage at the cost of it's held item), Scolipede and Leavanny (both have a more standard evolution curve), + more but the point is made gen 5 went crazy on the bugs gen 6... no actually the only bug type added in gen 6 was Vavillion lol, Mega Pinisr is interesting tho (Arialate and Flying on a Mega that learns a lot of normal type moves) Gen 7 has Golicipod (Emergency Exit) and Araquanid (Aqua Bubble), Gen 8 has Frosmoth(Ice Scales) and Klevor (Stone Axe), Gen 9 has Rabsca (Revival Blessing)
@@TheWrathAbove Ninjask has infinite speed! and then what? Shedinja is an interesting gimmick but after they introduced the perpetual sandstrom it's not worth trying. Along with bug just bringing a bunch of weak points for that 1hp. Armaldo is cool and I wish he was at least a good rock type but he's just too slow and gets no good moves. Vespiqueen looks like they wanted a good pokemon, the orders aren't good enough to rely on. Skorupi is poison-bug that becomes a good dark-poison type, though it's still relegated to lower tiers. At least Yanmega is worth using. I'd slot Wormadam into early use or it's just a cosmetic gimmick GEN 5: Leavanny looks cool but is too flammable to realistically use. If Ninjask was good then Scolipede is godly. Crustle is an alright rock type and shows off shell smash. Escavalier, Accelgor, Galvantula, VOLCARONA, and maybe durant with some memes.
just got my youtube recap and this was my most watched channel. think I have fallen asleep to these tier list videos almost every night for a while now. thanks for uploading
25:14 that's more because electric types have atrocious coverage than anything else and regieleki in gen 9 shows what happens when a good electric type gets a great coverage move.
@@ImportedCheese not really its not even a good physical electric move because it has the same negative effect as high jump kick for a little better accuracy and 30 less base power ,like seriously if gamefreak wants to make physical electric types decent just make wild charge 130 base power, increase zing zap's distribution, make supercell slam as strong as high jump kick or do all three preferably all three
If I've asked this before, I apologize, but now that the Crystal Legacy playthrough is over, are there any chances you'd be interested in trying out a neat hack called Spaceworld Reforged Gold & Silver? I think its a worthwhile play, getting to experience the Gold & Silver we never got, but with a graphical update that puts everything in line with current GSC. I recommend this game a lot because of its neat novelty: it's like an official Pokémon region we never got. Some of the Pokémon will be familiar, since you've played Kanto Expansion Pak, but it could still be a fairly fresh experience.
When I first saw this video being released, I went to watch the playthrough streams. It was worth it. Funny edits as usual. I also follow the "attack first and destroy the enemy in one turn" philosophy for single player.
Higher Dragon really does almost nothing in Gen 2. I mean yeah it makes it neutral to fire... but it's not like you want Meganium in on it anyways, while Psychic actually gives it things it can do
Fairy would be a better defense for Meganium but, Rock seems more fitting for it as a Sauropod type and its stocky build. I mean it’s shaped like a linebacker, how is Meganium a Magic user?
it took me way too long to place why the "SUBMIT!" clip was familiar to me, and i just now realized im pretty sure thats ansem from kingdom hearts (chain of memories i think?) saying that memories of him spamming that voice clip in the fight against him in GBA chain are coming back to me
Finally got around to watching THE PREMIUM and it was an entertaining ride all the way. Thanks again for these vids, Chees. Btw, can we get newer beds? Hopefully ones that are a bit more flame resistant?
What sucks is some Grass starters can do well throughout the game if balanced around their matchups. Like Rillaboom and Meowscarada. But the issue is they kinda forget to balance it so you get losers like Snivy, Chespin and Chikorita.
Boom feels very mid in-game. It's HA + Glide that make it good. Bulba, Tort, Deci and Meow all feel good in their games. Sniv, Boom, Meow, Ches and Venu all crush in PvP.
Hey, Charm was great when I was trying to solo Pokémon X with a Pichu! It made so that Pichu might actually survive the next hit with an HP or two! Might. Is the sarcasm obvious enough? That Lv. 53 Pichu was walled by the 2nd Gym Leader. Pichu is bad. Like, really bad. Still cute, though.
The best cutscene in video game history. Argent Ascent. I would really like if it was a stand alone video, but then again I think that of a lot of your wee mini-videos. The Argent Ascent one was really good though, and the final line was funny in the context of Pokemon. "Call your mom. Because you're not going home."
hey cheese, did you install magic lantern on your camera? maybe it can help out with the webcam functions. overall its better than the regular system but may not be for everyone. hope it helps you out
@@ImportedCheese It' still good to use it, magic lantern has things like mic levels displaying on screen, more color profiles and focus peaking. Turns it basically into a tv camera, thought you would like to know since you worked with tv stuff too. I learned about it from a friend who has a t2i just like you
Hey Cheese, kind of a random question about your video-making process. Are you just naturally very quick-thinking when it comes to the one-liners and puns you make, or are your livestreams loosely scripted in advance? If they are scripted, to what extent? I just ask because I really enjoy your word delivery and especially your sense of humour. I imagine it's quite heavily scripted, or else you must have some godlike charisma to come up with all those jokes on the spot consecutively
Seeing Scyther put in S tier makes me happy. x) It's one of my all-time favorites. Such an appealing and simple, sleek design. They don't make 'em like this anymore.
It it didnt evolve absurdly late and having garbage avaibility in every game then maybe. On In game mono Rock teams (if thats how you play Pokemon for some reason) its a fine check to Grass and Steel types I guess
Emerald Kaizo is about the best you can do. Make it evolve before the first gym, cram recover on it. Is this still even Slugma? Probably not. But it is a mercy
Any chance you'll do a radical red or elite redux tier list one day? Or really any challenge rom? It would be interesting to see how the tiering criteria would change if the games were more difficult. That being said, making a tierlist with ~1000 pokemon would be excruciating im sure.
So when George Constanza said "the jerk store called and they're running out of you" he was actually being very considerate towards a japanese middle class restaurant business?
gonna be honest i literally dont think i would watch anyone else's 4 hour tier list
Thank you for watching this one
The fact you could talk to the devs about the useless buffs is incredible
I also dig the hearthstone/wow voicelines
We'll find out the reasoning for these 5 hp buffs someday
BREAK YOURSELF UPON MY BODY
ninetales had me crying lmao
@@ImportedCheeseseeing all these +5 hp buffs next to the ozruk voice line reminds me of when people tried to make that card work…
The super-marginal stuff is for the Nuzlocke community. The difference between barely surviving a hit and not can the difference between not losing one of your mons and resetting your whole run.
@@avdusknoir3090 Just gotta play a HIGH DENSITY OF ELEMENTALS, it'll work next game ok
Some of the reason why defense is scored so low compared to competitive is that you aren't fully healing after every fight. You're not fighting just a few guys. You are going through hundreds of fights, many of which wears you down.
The best attacking pokemon goes through the game quickly. One-shotting everything and usually run out of pp without taking damage. Slow, defensive pokemon act 2nd, effectively doubling the gameplay time assuming they still one-shot. And they take hits often, meaning you have to heal well before you run out of pp, slowing you down even more.
It's nice that weezing can't really hurt you. But you still take damage, and you have roughly 30 more pokemon to take damage from before getting to the next town. As compared to Alakazam who just confusions and psybeams through the route without breaking a sweat.
Do you mean "defense" in that opening line?
@@smergthedargon8974 yes. Edited. Thanks :)
If a slow mon has low atk values you also spend more PP because of KOing in around an extra turn.
Cheese is just completely right about playthroughs, besides the satisfaction of "feeling" like you're using strategy there are mostly cons to bad playthrough pokémon.
Some "tanky" mons don't tank well also, like when I played DP a milliion years ago so many things were super-effective against Torterra so being slow let opponents not only get a turn but deal double damage often. The idea that you can shell smash before every fight in newer gens is false too because you only have 15 PP. I generally liked grass-types the best as a kid so it hurt being resisted by so many things as well
@@TeeKayDee right. If you're a sweeper, you simply go first and OHKO them. If you're slow and defensive, it takes 4x as long because your opponent goes first and hits you. Then you go and not OHKO. Then your opponent hits you again. And then you kill them.
And after 10 trainers, the offensive mon took no damage at all, and the defensive mon, who's supposed to take more hits, is dying for the third time and needs to be healed again. Meanwhile, just like the rival in 1st gen, you're miles ahead fighting your 23rd trainer with your offensive mon by the time the defensive one beats your 10th trainer.
And you're right. It feels nice to use strategies, but it actually makes the fight worse. Just sweep, and you still feel good because you're living out a power fantasy. It's a win-win.
Very much this.
If you have, say, Infernape, Snorlax, and Steelix.
If you have to fight, say, 15 reasonably levelled pokemon clearing out a gym.
Infernape can just KO all 15, with maybe a potion or two between fights if it misses one hit KOs on very bulky enemies or takes some priority or other chip damage. It's never being attacked by anything offensive, it's just killing everything. Even a lot of "bad" matchups work out, because that water type just dies to Close Combat. If you need a pokemon center between, it's almost certainly more for PP than HP.
Snorlax is also KOing everything... in a 1v1. However, because it is almost always going second, it it taking damage, it is getting statuses, it needs tons of breaks to heal between fights. Despite being much more bulky than Infernape, because it is actually being hit, it gets worn down quickly, and can end up in situations where it can't even solo someone, because while it could beat all four of these pokemon 1v1, by the fourth one it is just gonna die because of the damage it has taken thus far. It is also much more vulnerable to Fighting types or coverage than Infernape is to Water or Ground, because all those moves are actually going to be used.
And then Steelix is even worse off than Snorlax, because at LEAST Snorlax is only getting hit once, because it's killing everything when it actually does attack. Steelix isn't, Steelix is taking two or three attacks every fight. It is getting statused and debuffed to hell, it is getting crit, flinched, sent to Sand Attack, Confuse Ray, and Bite hell. Steelix is going to need constant babying to just clear single encounters, let alone encounters in sequence, even though its bulk is so high, and it probably just loses to water types, even with a level advantage because it is taking multiple attacks from them.
And then there's, like, Jumpluff. Can Jumpluff beat these enemies? Probably some of them. There's whatever long list of contexts, scenarios, and targets that your lockdown just doesn't work on, but, probably a lot of them it does.
But it's gonna take forever, and good god you have better things to do with your life than watch a Jumpluff torture an NPC trainer to death over the course of a half hour and then smile and realize that was the first of four trainers.
I still can't believe the audacity of Canon to lock features of a physical camera behind a subscription...
that's because it was GANON's doing
What’s this mean
the "call your mom & tell her you won't be home" line is so cold. I love it
Followed by seeing a lvl 93 Pikachu. "Mom?!"
PROFESSIONAL writing!
Cheese doesn't want you guys to know that I managed to bribe him to temporarily place Umbreon at the top of S in the Uncut Video. For one glorious moment all Eeveelutions were top tier, and it was thanks to the Big Eevee Party! GO EEVEE!
SICK of eevee fans
:
@@ImportedCheese
ピュア―リィ！
Ngl I found it kinda find it funny that the developers came onto your stream just for you to tell them that Ninetales and Chikorita are still bad 😂. Based Cheese strikes again.
Well their goal WAS to preserve the original feeling of crystal
Ninetales really deserves to be part ghost type based on its lore
How convenient
So essentially this tierlist has the mentality, "i wanna be a soft speed runner." With the good ol' Fast and strong damage dealer v.s tank damage dealer. Still good explanations through stats and availability
Fair enough, i imagine in a nuzlocke a lot of these rankings change and improve or get worse. But we can always agree, the references are great.
That's the jist of it. Crystal Legacy is a better game to play than vanilla but it isn't much harder than it either. So unless you Challege yourself with house rulse defense play isn't really needed. It works, I beat CL with Ledian on my team, but it's not like I couldn't have done better with just 6 sweepers.
The only real difference for nuzlockes is an even harder focus on availability (the pokemon you can reliably get are more helpful than the ones you don't, and that 1% Bagon or whatever just isn't happening), the general buff to pokemon with intimidate (bulk is for schmucks, pros use intimidate to give bulk to their offensive pokemon), and more intrinsic value for typing, and especially immunities because switching in becomes more difficult to secure, and resists/immunities matter more.
Not really bulk, bulky pokemon tend to be pretty inherently niche picks that are on a team to deal with one specific target that you don't otherwise have the tools for. Slow pokemon lose more HP, which is more precious in a nuzlocke. Pokemon with things like regenerator, drain moves, ect fill this niche better than defensive pokemon ever could. Also, people undervalue aggressively sac'ing garbage to clean switch offensive pokemon. A level 3 pidgey may well be better as a defensive option than your Chansey or whatever.
And I guess a slight elevation of hard stall/indirect damage strategies, because you're less of the one getting trolled watching a Whimsicott slowly torture a trainer to death if you're getting the satisfaction of doing it in a nuzlocke.
Slightly. I did say "less" the one getting trolled. You're still absolutely the victim of this exchange.
Immunities, bulk and switch synergies will typically get better any time something is challenging. Playing through underleveled and certain nuzlocke variants (like littlelockes) are good examples. Unless your objective is to beat the game as quickly as possible, there is no particular loss in using a slower strategy and, in cases where you cannot or are unwilling to reset, they are worthwhile if they have a higher conversion rate.
Fast pokemon still have less of a chance to get horribly deleted in "slower" runs
Cheese, did you know that you have the exact same philosophy like Barry from Pokémon Platinum when it comes to ingame performance?
I quote: "Oh, hey! When we smacked together, a brilliant flash of inspiration came to me!
An easy way to become a great Trainer! Yeah, that! All right. Listen close...
Make certain all your attacks hit! Avoid enemy attacks for sure!
You do that, you’d never lose! You’d be the invincible Trainer!"
Sounds like a strategy that will result in paying zero fines!
Did I just witness Uncle Ralph bite the dust in stunning 4k?
SCARY audio
Did you really have an entire theatre kid montage as Red and then make a No Country for Old Men reference with the confusion? This is my fav channel.
It's not THEATER KID it's FILM ADULT
This was a fun ride. I can't wait when Cheese has do to a Tier List of OG Crystal and be like "Dear lord... this game is HORRIBLE! WHO PUT THESE MONS SO FAR BEHIND?!"
well you'll be waiting FOREVER, vanilla crystal tier list NEVER
@@ImportedCheese That's actually fine. I prefer to get to Gen 5 Pokemon Tier List anyway.
@@dragonknight1560 Didn't that happen already?
@@smergthedargon8974 Gold and Silver you mean. He hasn't and will not do Crystal... can't blame him, it would have been an inferior tier list compare to this one.
@@dragonknight1560 Cheese needs to upgrade his nintendo PC pronto to play gen 5
Another banger cheese. Idk how your channel has not blown up yet. Your style of humor and edits are great, definitely not grass type. Keep it up brother!
Thank you for watching! We'll reach ONE MILLIONS SUBS when they release Fire Emblem Echoes: Legacy of the Crusaders
Wow, this trailer conveniently portrays qwilfish's newfound power!
Newfound....?
dear chees,
I don't know how to say this without sounding mean but I really love how you have grown and get better with each video you make. Who knows what your limits are! (I know the "better" the videos are, the more work you need to put in, like graphics and cuts and stuff, and I appreciate it a lot. Im not saying stuff like "it can be better" I love you for who you are, of course.) Even if I have seen you rank johto mons a fair couple of times, you make every time unique and a pleasure to watch. I can't thank you enough for just how wonderful you are. You are awesome!
I hear this hack makes hitmonchan finally metamon!!!! It gets A whole base 5 SP def!!!!!!
I think it's 5 speed?! Finally viable!!
So how good would Bellossom be if it was min-maxed but still pure grass?
Something insane like 150 Special Attack, 111 speed. (So a spread of 75/35/35/150/74/111) But it's still stuck with it's current move pool.
it would be a LOT better...just gotta consider all its damage is halved
@@ImportedCheeseBorn in a world of strife...
So pokey! So... Poisony...
It's POKEY
@@ImportedCheese
I feared this would happen…the affliction is spreading…
Not to mention that Game Freak battles are usually slow as fuck. Offensive pokèmon oneshotting everything means you have to waste less time reading useless text prompts.
Oh how i wish these games were as smooth as the Persona games...
At least you can turn off animations in gen 9!!!!
“You should call your mom. Tell her you’re not coming home.”
DAMN
Oh boy an imported cheese pokemon tierlist! Looking forward to seeing how my favourite defensive pokemon rank 🛡
BREAK YOURSELVES UPON MY BODY
can't believe this ootachi slander
It's not slander if it's TRUE
More like Nootachi
It's very cute
But it's very bad.
Truer words cannot be said about it
i tried to use ootachi in my crystal vc playthrough, and my beloved scarf was falling off around bugsy. in comparison to my other team members, who were a bayleef, a sandshrew, and probably a few bugs. ootachi just does not have any stats whatsoever
Get this man nominated for up and coming PokeTuber at this year’s Pokémon Awards by subbing y’all!! I’ve been watching for years and he deserves it. Yet another banger.
Thanks!! But don't call me a p*ketuber
@@ImportedCheese oh god oh jeez fuck
As a longtime fan, I think this is one of your funniest tier lists yet, Cheese. Your streams also made me wish so badly that the availability changes for Crystal Legacy were applied to HGSS.
Thank you for watching! HGSS Legacy when
It's cool to see how you improve with every tier list you make. The amount of and diversity in special graphics is fantastic. Some even look like real life! Laughed out loud so many times.
One Pokémon whose placing I always wonder about is Arbok. Shouldn't 80 speed, 95 attack, early availability and early evolution put it handily above its poisonous comrades Weezing and Muk? ̶I̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶i̶m̶a̶g̶i̶n̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶b̶a̶r̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶g̶o̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶D̶-̶t̶i̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶e̶a̶r̶l̶y̶ ̶g̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶i̶c̶e̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶p̶o̶r̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶e̶n̶e̶m̶y̶ ̶P̶o̶k̶é̶m̶o̶n̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶s̶i̶s̶t̶ ̶p̶o̶i̶s̶o̶n̶.̶ After checking Ekans' BST and natural learn set, yeah, it's definitely among Johto's Finest. Of course I've never used it once in my life so it's just my feeling.
Poison also happens to be a terrible offensive type. Even with decent moves, Arbok doesn't take hits and because it's a poison it doesn't do damage. It's part of why this video is so off about grass types.
Some people say we have too many graphics!!
Anyway arbok's stats are..........ok, it's just that poison giga sucks
Now that I've seen THE entire LIVE, i can appreciate all the wonderful flourishes in THE PREMIUM to their fullest!
it only cost you 12 hours of your life
I am in awe of all the champions of Johto's Finest, that basically got somewhere between half and 75% of a mega, and are still painfully mediocre
At least they're uh....better...
Like half the bugs in modern games are fall off garbage and the others are an attempt to remake Heracross or at least a balanced Venomoth. BW had a lot of cool bugs and dark was catching on so they were almost worth it, but I think outside of Megahorn everything in 4 was useless. Some recent games are hit or miss if they include a nice bug or it is just an obligation to add something of every type or it just doesn't work out.
That's not true, every gen has at least one bug that does something unique, for the most part anyways.
Gen 3 has Ninjask (speed boost) and Shedinja (Wonder Guard),
Gen 4 has Skorupi (which I believe is the only bug type that loses the bug type on evolving), and Wormadam (which can have 3 different types),
Gen 5 has uh all it's bug types honestly, Volcarona (evolves crazy late has really damn, good stats, gets firey dance), Gensect (Mythical, Techno Blast giving really good coverage at the cost of it's held item), Scolipede and Leavanny (both have a more standard evolution curve), + more but the point is made gen 5 went crazy on the bugs
gen 6... no actually the only bug type added in gen 6 was Vavillion lol, Mega Pinisr is interesting tho (Arialate and Flying on a Mega that learns a lot of normal type moves)
Gen 7 has Golicipod (Emergency Exit) and Araquanid (Aqua Bubble),
Gen 8 has Frosmoth(Ice Scales) and Klevor (Stone Axe),
Gen 9 has Rabsca (Revival Blessing)
@@TheWrathAbove Ninjask has infinite speed! and then what? Shedinja is an interesting gimmick but after they introduced the perpetual sandstrom it's not worth trying. Along with bug just bringing a bunch of weak points for that 1hp. Armaldo is cool and I wish he was at least a good rock type but he's just too slow and gets no good moves.
Vespiqueen looks like they wanted a good pokemon, the orders aren't good enough to rely on. Skorupi is poison-bug that becomes a good dark-poison type, though it's still relegated to lower tiers. At least Yanmega is worth using. I'd slot Wormadam into early use or it's just a cosmetic gimmick
GEN 5: Leavanny looks cool but is too flammable to realistically use. If Ninjask was good then Scolipede is godly. Crustle is an alright rock type and shows off shell smash. Escavalier, Accelgor, Galvantula, VOLCARONA, and maybe durant with some memes.
the bug type itself is just a disaster
The jynx section has me rolling on the floor
LIVE reaction content
That section definitely got to me as well
1:42:34
Golden Sun mentioned! Keep praying, brothers and sisters. Surely the sequel is on the way!
isaac for smash
just got my youtube recap and this was my most watched channel. think I have fallen asleep to these tier list videos almost every night for a while now. thanks for uploading
25:14 that's more because electric types have atrocious coverage than anything else and regieleki in gen 9 shows what happens when a good electric type gets a great coverage move.
surely SUPERCELL SLAM makes up for it
@@ImportedCheese not really its not even a good physical electric move because it has the same negative effect as high jump kick for a little better accuracy and 30 less base power ,like seriously if gamefreak wants to make physical electric types decent just make wild charge 130 base power, increase zing zap's distribution, make supercell slam as strong as high jump kick or do all three preferably all three
If I've asked this before, I apologize, but now that the Crystal Legacy playthrough is over, are there any chances you'd be interested in trying out a neat hack called Spaceworld Reforged Gold & Silver? I think its a worthwhile play, getting to experience the Gold & Silver we never got, but with a graphical update that puts everything in line with current GSC.
I recommend this game a lot because of its neat novelty: it's like an official Pokémon region we never got. Some of the Pokémon will be familiar, since you've played Kanto Expansion Pak, but it could still be a fairly fresh experience.
Uh eventually, but definitely not for a while, too much early gen stuff
How tf did I miss the notification of this excellent meal. UA-cam I have been hungering for this delicious content!
UA-cam must be SUPPRESSING ME
@@ImportedCheese This is unnacceptable! We must consult the higher power (the algorithm) what to do.
When I first saw this video being released, I went to watch the playthrough streams. It was worth it.
Funny edits as usual. I also follow the "attack first and destroy the enemy in one turn" philosophy for single player.
I wish Pokemon was more complex
That was a fantastic Red fight skit!
Thank you! Was my first time filming by myself, had to climb mount silver!
in gen 2 light ball only boosts sp attack, so iron tail is hitting with Pikachu's raw attack stat.
How do y’all feel the Chikorita line will be scaled at if the Bayleef line above gains part Psychic instead of Dragon? Higher or lower than B?
Higher
Dragon really does almost nothing in Gen 2.
I mean yeah it makes it neutral to fire... but it's not like you want Meganium in on it anyways, while Psychic actually gives it things it can do
It would be better, stats still kinda lame
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 That and I change my mind since part Rock is better to me now.
Fairy would be a better defense for Meganium but, Rock seems more fitting for it as a Sauropod type and its stocky build. I mean it’s shaped like a linebacker, how is Meganium a Magic user?
@@ImportedCheese I would extend its BST to 535 to enhance its HP to the 90s. Everything else seems reasonable.
Most fun tier list maker I've seen, love your content and hope your having a good week! :D
I like the editing on this one. Good job!
Thank you! It took a while
Look, I just want more legacy content. I watched this entire thing just because it was so nice to see people treating this like a real game.
Man oh man the more insistent he is about how much a pokemon sucks the more I gain an appreciation for it.
(Shout out to my adored boy Ariados)
Some pokemon are fun because they're awful
Ready to rewatch this tier list in a convenient format
Only takes 4 hours to absorb the convenience!
these tier lists are the reason i get out of bed in the morning
Rise and SHINE
Always love these vids
Thanks for watching! Now SITDOWN for FOUR HOURS
it took me way too long to place why the "SUBMIT!" clip was familiar to me, and i just now realized im pretty sure thats ansem from kingdom hearts (chain of memories i think?) saying that
memories of him spamming that voice clip in the fight against him in GBA chain are coming back to me
he's the final boss of the first game
Finally got around to watching THE PREMIUM and it was an entertaining ride all the way. Thanks again for these vids, Chees. Btw, can we get newer beds? Hopefully ones that are a bit more flame resistant?
Sleep when you're DEAD
Cheese I have been watching you! I wish your efforts are rewarded man! Best wishes, from a simple intern!
Every intern is precious
Finally! Ariados has surpassed Ledian and escaped Johto’s finest!
Dawn of a new era?!
SS tier production for the pre-Red fight
The Argent Ascent raid being my favorite part of the run 😂
This is random but I just looked at tropius’ stats and it’s so bad that even if you added 20 to every category, it would still be top of C maybe low B
99 HP is the most insulting
What sucks is some Grass starters can do well throughout the game if balanced around their matchups. Like Rillaboom and Meowscarada. But the issue is they kinda forget to balance it so you get losers like Snivy, Chespin and Chikorita.
Rilaboom and Mewoscarada would be even better if they weren't grass types
Boom feels very mid in-game. It's HA + Glide that make it good. Bulba, Tort, Deci and Meow all feel good in their games. Sniv, Boom, Meow, Ches and Venu all crush in PvP.
Ironically, Meowscarada can choose not to be Grass with Protein lol.@@ImportedCheese
Hey, Charm was great when I was trying to solo Pokémon X with a Pichu! It made so that Pichu might actually survive the next hit with an HP or two! Might.
Is the sarcasm obvious enough? That Lv. 53 Pichu was walled by the 2nd Gym Leader. Pichu is bad. Like, really bad. Still cute, though.
At least your expectations are realistic
The best cutscene in video game history. Argent Ascent. I would really like if it was a stand alone video, but then again I think that of a lot of your wee mini-videos. The Argent Ascent one was really good though, and the final line was funny in the context of Pokemon. "Call your mom. Because you're not going home."
Thanks for watching! I already got to use it in the livestream, the intro, AND as a segment here so I think I got plenty of value out of it
Wigglytuff compliments. We wigglytuff fans will take them whenever we can.
Ten dollars....for this....
Is this the Kanto Expansion Pack Premium?
Eventually
The Red bit was pretty great ,good stuff Cheese based man 👍
Thank you, this is a PROFESSIONAL production
hey cheese, did you install magic lantern on your camera? maybe it can help out with the webcam functions. overall its better than the regular system but may not be for everyone. hope it helps you out
I will probably just get a physical cable
@@ImportedCheese It' still good to use it, magic lantern has things like mic levels displaying on screen, more color profiles and focus peaking. Turns it basically into a tv camera, thought you would like to know since you worked with tv stuff too. I learned about it from a friend who has a t2i just like you
Great as always, Cheese! Tier list of how influential are specific Pokémon and FE characters to your channel when?
Uh probably never but you can probably guess who ranks highly
@@ImportedCheese It's all about finding new ways to express how boring Dewong is.
Bronze Fist is Ayla's weapon you get for leveling her up to 96 and always deals max damage on crits.
Still sounds better than 20% iron fist
Best channel
UNTRUE but thanks
It's nearly 4 hours, it would make Angry Joe happy XD
I also have a green screen!
Almost 4 hours? Better call Mom, tell her I’m gonna be here a while
But you can watch at your leisure, how convenient!
Always love these ❤
Thank you for watching!
@Imported Cheese
3:43:04 You are welcome. I did watched it till the end
Such dedicated interns
I used my favorites and had OK results...and I'm ok with that, that's how I like to play pokemon 👍
My favorites ARE the best!!!
Play Polished Crystal next! I love Johto
Probably a while before we revisit johto
Hey Cheese, kind of a random question about your video-making process. Are you just naturally very quick-thinking when it comes to the one-liners and puns you make, or are your livestreams loosely scripted in advance? If they are scripted, to what extent? I just ask because I really enjoy your word delivery and especially your sense of humour. I imagine it's quite heavily scripted, or else you must have some godlike charisma to come up with all those jokes on the spot consecutively
I apologize for any pain and suffering my financial contribution may have caused in forcing you to use chikorita
Well at least I could buy jerk
In gen 2 light ball only raised special attack
Great item
holy shit i didn't know the smith plays had an active Pokémon Chanel i grew up watching his cod zombies content back in 2014
You gotta subscribe!
The fact that even the developers of Crystal legacy ignored Raichu and Buffed Pikachu is shameful
Raichu will never catch a break
who is raichu
Seeing Scyther put in S tier makes me happy. x)
It's one of my all-time favorites. Such an appealing and simple, sleek design. They don't make 'em like this anymore.
Gen 2 was the BEGINNING OF THE END
That Hypno bit is amazing
Irresistible
locking access of features for a physical camera behind a subscription should actually be illegal
Ganon can't be stopped
1:07:39 how convenient
Time to tap in to the portion of the video that I missed while I was out 😁
tap...? surely you're not on a phone
What are the cutaways???
Can u be more specific pls
Cheese when are you gonna do a challenge run with a team picked from the finest tier in any game you've done a list for?
Seems too VANILLA
Hey cheese, have you heard of pokerogue? Pokerogue is a roguelike (or is it roguelite?) browser bas-
Yeah, I've heard of it
This tier list made me think it would be interesting to do a normal nuzlocke or regular run for crystal legacy
we....did do a regular run, right?
Wait typhlosion is ground type also?
In this hack, yes!
@@ImportedCheese ohh I just realized it was a hack lmao I’m half asleep listening xD
Time to sail the seven seas for a better version of that camera's software.
But it's only $5 a month
"You should get use to not owning your games."
Just wanted to say that, as a spaniard, your pronunciation of spanish words was really good
Gracias
Thank you for your sacrifice Uncle Ralph o7
swarmed...
Is Slugma just the single worst pokemon in existence? I’ve seen many people attempt to fix it to absolutely no avail…
It it didnt evolve absurdly late and having garbage avaibility in every game then maybe. On In game mono Rock teams (if thats how you play Pokemon for some reason) its a fine check to Grass and Steel types I guess
Emerald Kaizo is about the best you can do.
Make it evolve before the first gym, cram recover on it.
Is this still even Slugma? Probably not. But it is a mercy
there are literal joke pokemon that are worse, but Slugma is still REALLY bad
NOOOOO UNCLE RALPH IS DEAD
Might be a fate worse than death...
@@ImportedCheese oh no… they went overqwil
Any chance you'll do a radical red or elite redux tier list one day? Or really any challenge rom?
It would be interesting to see how the tiering criteria would change if the games were more difficult. That being said, making a tierlist with ~1000 pokemon would be excruciating im sure.
uh probably not because of the scale
The thumbnail is cool
Looks great, right?! Made by this guy, Alyo!
ua-cam.com/channels/JSMEgVX7yiF5tjsiTdbhkw.html
Excuse me, where is my Chikorita cosplay?
Cabbages OUT OF SEASON
What Gen 2 should be
On Scott‘s Thoughts‘ channel Victreebel still holds the record time for a Pokemon Yellow solo run, it can‘t be that much worse in GSC
Well it lost 100% crit razor leaf, so it's way worse
@@ImportedCheese I didn‘t think about that, you‘re right…nasakenai
0:35 mirror move! 👑
How much to get cheese licked? Edit: 1:45:21 NAH YOU DID CINEMASSACRE DIRTY
hiring youtube PROFESSIONALS can result in destructive results
3:26:13 adorable
Right?! You can find all the doge edits in the description
I would love to see you play golden sun (kinda the best game ever), maybe you could do a class tier list or something idk
If we play Golden Sun and get a MILLION SUBSCRIBERS, Sakurai will have to add Isaac to smash
You should go for the Beta Gold 97 fan completed rom. Could be fun.
Maybe someday
So when George Constanza said "the jerk store called and they're running out of you" he was actually being very considerate towards a japanese middle class restaurant business?
Yes! What a nice guy!