More Expensive Doesn't Always Mean Better

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  • Опубліковано 27 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 254

  • @jimmynickelz
    @jimmynickelz 3 місяці тому +40

    Had 2 sets of old V shaped Superteams that I purchased in 2015. Put over 8k mi. on each set with nooooo bearing services. Raced on em. Crashed on em. Continued to race on em. Great wheels.

    • @firstnamelastname9013
      @firstnamelastname9013 3 місяці тому +2

      Have two sets of the old 50x23 v rims both still running true and still light by todays standards. Gargain !

  • @sirpatrickbikes
    @sirpatrickbikes 3 місяці тому +112

    A couple of months ago I bought the cheapest Superteam carbon wheelset $320 off of Ebay. Lighter and faster and my old Mavic Ksyriums. Then, after a rainstorm, I hit a massive submerged pothole which blew out both tires and tubes. Not a mark on the wheels, couldn't believe it!

    • @BryanMoreno_
      @BryanMoreno_ 3 місяці тому +20

      I have some super teams as well. Hit a pot hole this morning blew out tube and tire. Was going be late to work so just rode 1 mile on the flat to get to my car smh. No damage and I weigh 234 pounds

    • @viet0ne
      @viet0ne 3 місяці тому +7

      There's been teardowns and cuts of cheap carbon wheels. They're generally overbuilt with more cheaper carbon which is why they don't always weigh much lower than aluminum wheels. But because of the bulk of materials, they're usually stronger.

    • @RylHango
      @RylHango 3 місяці тому +1

      @@viet0ne While i don't know about the sub $500 market, chinese wheelsets are leading in weight numbers because the western brands are still marketing 1500g as a light wheelset, I'm sure there's a lot of redundancy in the Chinese budget market due to how returns work on aliexpress

    • @yungkarp
      @yungkarp 3 місяці тому +2

      same experience, the superteam cheap wheels aren't that light but they are pretty damn bulletproof

  • @Onigure
    @Onigure 3 місяці тому +33

    An important note about cup and cone hubs: you NEED to regularly service them. The design is marginally better because you have less parts involved, BUT you make your hub vulnerable to damage if grit enters the system.
    Your hub acts as the races of cartridge bearings.

    • @gg4760-k5n
      @gg4760-k5n 3 місяці тому +5

      yeah labeling cup and cone as easier to service is nuts. Aside from the wright off if you forget to service them frequently enough, you also need to set your cone pressure just right to not compress the balls and mark the cups. Comparatively a cartridge bearing can be taken out and pressed in in a few minutes, if the bearing is shot it is no biggie and if you keep some bearing in stock you can refresh your hubs as soon as you feel that you need to.

    • @petal665
      @petal665 3 місяці тому +5

      I've seen plenty of Dura-ace wheels with 20000kms on them that have never been touched and still perfect inside.

    • @gg4760-k5n
      @gg4760-k5n 3 місяці тому +2

      @@petal665 if serviced regularly and properly yes they can last a very long time. But these 2 conditions need to be met to achieve this. My experience with cup and cone is more in the Mtb world and it is even harder to stay on top of your maintenance so cartridge hubs are a no brainer for me but to everyone their own.

    • @petal665
      @petal665 3 місяці тому

      @@gg4760-k5n I agree keeping on top of servicing is the best way, but I've seen lots of Dura-ace hubs that have never been serviced sill pristine after years of use. Doesn't seem to be the way with the current Dura-ace disc wheels though, the rear bearings do need looking after which is odd because the seals are the same as the rim brake wheels.

    • @Onigure
      @Onigure 3 місяці тому

      @@petal665 Well, it is my bad watching and commenting about sets of wheels that I won't own, like ever.
      Nevertheless, I was commenting about the cup-and-cone system as a whole, which is common in entry-level bicycles and groves very easily if not maintained.
      I haven't ever been let down by a Shimano product, but my girlfriend's RS-100 rear hub (entry level wheels) died after a year of negletion. Even with new bearings there was raspy sounds freewheeling. For reference sake: she's 45kg and have the power numbers of a shrimp, but ride in the rain, and over puddles and not even clean it after.
      About a year ago I bought a used-like-new replacement for her and I maintain it every three months with no issues. The front wheel is still rolling smoothly and should be at least 5years old in the same bearings.

  • @DimiSalviato
    @DimiSalviato 3 місяці тому +52

    "Guys, they're just getting a lot better". That sums it up. Just bought an old used Tarmac a couple of months ago. Now I'm looking forward to buying a great 7,5kg Chinese bike for 3k in two years or so.

    • @NorCalCycling
      @NorCalCycling  3 місяці тому +25

      I was against these cheap overseas offerings for years, after having a bad experience with my monoprice wheels back in 2014ish. But damn they've come a long way.

  • @MaxL.
    @MaxL. 3 місяці тому +9

    I got the Dura-Ace wheelset (50mm) at a great price-about one-third of the list price, around $800, I believe. I commute by road bike, and at the moment, I'm very pleased with the wheelset. The reason I chose them over similarly priced wheelsets from Chinese manufacturers is that they looked quite durable and are self-serviceable.
    A lot of carbon rims I looked at for example didn't have any drainage holes, so water can accumulate after getting in, which can lead to problems in the long run. It might sound a bit picky, and if you don't ride in wet conditions, it’s not something you need to worry about, but I ride every day.
    As a side note, I found it interesting that the Dura-Ace/Classic Pro wheelset performed equally well compared to the All Carbon Evo one, despite the latter's larger spokes and the wave pattern on the outside of the rim.

    • @NorCalCycling
      @NorCalCycling  3 місяці тому +4

      I've found thick spokes and dimpled texture makes little to no difference in actual performance

  • @6SpeedsGood
    @6SpeedsGood 3 місяці тому +2

    I chose Reserve wheels for a recent gravel upgrade, for several reasons after lots of research. In order:
    1. Hooked rims, and I do run them tubeless.
    2. Lifetime warranty
    3. Peace of mind of a known brand. Wheels, tires, and brakes are what stand between me and my wife possibly cashing my life insurance. I never, ever want to question them. I learned this racing cars on tracks where doubting those things is unacceptable, I want zero doubt in my mind.
    4. Cost was mildly an issue, but these are essentially a once every 7-10 year purchase, so I don’t really care.
    5. DT Swiss hubs with options for all price and weight points.
    6. A bonus, the Reserve FillMore valves make tubeless management a breeze.
    I also ride Reserve on my road bike, comparable to the aero wheels tested here, although more of a happy coincidence they came on the Soloist I bought, although I run them with tubes. I’d still never run a hookless wheel, YMMV.

    • @PeterSdrolias
      @PeterSdrolias Місяць тому

      Thanks for sharing. I am looking at a new wheelset. Considered the Zipp 303 firecrests but they are hookless, so no thanks. Then a guy at my LBS suggested Reserve.

  • @aldrinclementina4297
    @aldrinclementina4297 3 місяці тому +3

    Hi there friend. Good to see you bringing the "unknown" brands to the test and giving your review. Superteam isn't that "unknown" anymore. I found also good the way you are telling the audience about the pro riders. Some people need to understand this. We are buying our own stuff to ride and they are getting paid to ride. lol.
    I'm at the verge of stepping from a climbing bike to an aero bike. I have ridden a Bianchi 928L for years and now I'm going for a Merida Reacto. I believe I will go for one those affordable wheelsets like Superteam or Magene 508. Fingers crossed. Ordered the bike already. It's on its way. I will swap those stock 30mm aluminum bricks for sure. lol
    Thanks for sharing

  • @ronfeldman4386
    @ronfeldman4386 3 місяці тому +8

    I spent months searching for high quality carbon wheels that can be repaired throughout the United States and Europe when I am training and racing Gran Fondo races. I went with DT Swiss 240exp hubs, Sapim CX Ray spokes, Sapim nipples and a 45mm Carbon rim that is 29mm wide and 21mm external width. They weigh in at 1320 grams, are easy to rebuild everywhere in the world and in my opinion are bullet proof. The rim bed is solid which makes sealing Continental GP 500 S TR tires easy. The superteam wheels appear to be high quality and comparable to my wheels. The prices are great too.

  • @jefflabianco4459
    @jefflabianco4459 3 місяці тому +2

    I’ve been running some rim brake 50mm super teams for a year now with zero issues super fast and great braking performance for a a carbon wheel. Highly recommend getting Reynolds blue brake pads instead of using the supplied pads if you buy rim brake wheels

  • @e995a1ad
    @e995a1ad 3 місяці тому +6

    The warranty for the freehub of the Classic PROs is only 1/2 year, which is a huge red flag. I don't even know how they can sell them in the EU since guarantees have to be 2 years at least here.

  • @wallacegrooms7791
    @wallacegrooms7791 3 місяці тому +3

    I have 3 sets of SuperTeam wheels, 80 45 and 30. All 3 sets total cost less than 1 set of Shimano c50's. I am now old and slow so they handle everything I can throw at them. The only difference, I have no fear riding anything Shimano. I do admit at 30+mph I find myself praying for quality on the Superteam wheels. No reason other than Shimano never (except cranksets?) breaks.

  • @dr.merlot1532
    @dr.merlot1532 3 місяці тому +4

    My super team wheels only needed a hub change after 5000K miles. That's only 70 bucks and easy to change by yourself. However, my Easton EA 70's broke spokes so much, once the hub broke (this happend quickly back in the 2011's) I had to get new 400 dollar wheels.... I think nowadays wheels are getting more robust to damage. The super teams are a good alternative to all these other 2K dollar brands.

  • @Pompdiepom
    @Pompdiepom 3 місяці тому +3

    Thanks for the content your putting on UA-cam.
    One suggestion for another comparison; just watched mapdec "promoting" these very expensive bikeone 400 pound/euro/dollar bottom brackets. One of his employees actually thought it reminded him of a squar taper bb. Maybe you could test what the advantage is of a very expensive bb compared to the standard & cheaper Shimano products (?)

  • @marcj8464
    @marcj8464 3 місяці тому +10

    Back when carbon was new and tended to break randomly (and catastrophically) buying no-name carbon wheels direct from Asia was a major gamble. The world has clearly changed! A $500 carbon wheelset that is reliable enough to race on is a major value.

    • @66mikkim
      @66mikkim 2 місяці тому

      90% of all carbon rims you can buy today come out of Xaimen. Almost all major brands buy there.

    • @laod7192
      @laod7192 2 місяці тому +1

      @@66mikkim Xiamen

    • @66mikkim
      @66mikkim 2 місяці тому

      @@laod7192 what are you? A grammar Nazi?
      Think everyone got the point.

    • @laod7192
      @laod7192 2 місяці тому +2

      @@66mikkim You spelled the city name wrong.

    • @66mikkim
      @66mikkim 2 місяці тому

      @@laod7192 so? No one gives a fuck

  • @CousinNepTunes
    @CousinNepTunes 3 місяці тому +3

    Jeff, it would've been very interesting if you have added to the test a set of average stock AL wheels (USD 200-300), to see how big is the difference between the bottom and the top of the available wheelsets.

  • @billkallas1762
    @billkallas1762 3 місяці тому +6

    It would have been good if you compared them to a semi-retro wheelset. Shimano 32 hole disk brake hubs with the old school skinny Open Pro rims, with 23 or 25mm tires.

  • @artoutlawphoto
    @artoutlawphoto 3 місяці тому +4

    I bought the gravel version from superteam, and the rear hub has a small play, not much by its there. The guy from superteam send me another freehub and now I have a xdr and hg freehub, but it did not resolve the problem. The problem us in the bearings not having good tolerance with the axle. When I will change bearings I will buy better quality. Overall I'm satisfied withe the wheels much better then the alloy oem on my bike. But thus us with chines brands the quality control should be better. They came with a quality control card but only for building and triming the wheels not for the hubs.

  • @voldengen
    @voldengen 3 місяці тому +4

    There is less drag in cup & cone bearings, too. But if you let them go too long without maintenance the bearing races can get pitted, and that's part of the hub. That's why I prefer cartridge bearings. You can drive them into the ground until they don't even spin anymore but none of that wear is on the actual hub. You can replace the bearings and your hub is good to go. With cup and cone you would generally run the cones a little looser so they can spin well, and it just gets worse and worse. In my many years of experience...YMMV

    • @ytwos1
      @ytwos1 2 місяці тому

      What would be “too long”? My aunt used to run our family’s bike shop and I remember there always were these steel bearing balls to play with as a child.

    • @voldengen
      @voldengen 2 місяці тому

      @@ytwos1 "Too Long" means the hub surface the ball bearings run on gets pitted.

  • @DelTacobueno
    @DelTacobueno 3 місяці тому +10

    Another big thing to factor into the high cost of name brand wheels is typically you will get a comprehensive warranty… full wheel replacements after a crash.

    • @davidlau2467
      @davidlau2467 3 місяці тому +1

      Exactly. I just got a replacement Zipp wheel this week after I crashed and damaged a wheel.

    • @hill160881
      @hill160881 3 місяці тому

      Exactly elite just replaced… ya the China companies do it to.

    • @scotth3354
      @scotth3354 3 місяці тому +5

      IOW, the cost is higher because you’re paying for the replacement wheel up front.

    • @davidlau2467
      @davidlau2467 3 місяці тому

      ​@@scotth3354no doubt.

    • @DelTacobueno
      @DelTacobueno 3 місяці тому

      @@scotth3354 IOW, the cost of a replacement wheel is free?

  • @yt0500323022
    @yt0500323022 3 місяці тому +1

    Jeff, can you please do a detailed video on your daily nutrition? What you eat, when you eat, how much do you eat. What do you do different on race days etc. What do you consume after a race. How often you binge on something you enjoy and break from your nutrition regime.
    I’m sure it’s a subject that will receive a lot of views.
    Thank you.

    • @darringrey4329
      @darringrey4329 3 місяці тому

      Just go vegan everyone knows that's the healthyest way. Well Bill Gates said so

  • @TheJeremy92888
    @TheJeremy92888 26 днів тому

    I myself have some Superteams and have road some hard mile on them since 2020.. only problem I have had is the rear wheel spokes started coming loose..easy fix I just took them to my local bike shop to put thread lock on them and no problems!..also the bearing still roll like new🤙

  • @habana6595
    @habana6595 3 місяці тому +1

    My first bike was a VanRysel Ultra CF with Ican 50mm wheels.
    I already realize that i don't need to get a big brand name bike.
    Then i was dreaming about an aero bike, so i built a Winspace 1500 frame with Hypers 50mm wheels.
    And then i was convinced that i will never buy a big brand name frameset or wheelset.
    I have so much value for the money i spent with a great quality chines brand like Winspace !

  • @davidcarino6500
    @davidcarino6500 3 місяці тому

    Awesome testing! I started buying these lower end carbon wheels, no problems!! Full time job as an average rider they work great.

  • @Dustydayzz
    @Dustydayzz 3 місяці тому +3

    awesome breakdown...the nice edits hides all the work that goes into these type of videos but we appreciate

  • @joshuabuilds3051
    @joshuabuilds3051 3 дні тому

    Cup and cone vs cartridge. I have about 9 years experience with cup and cone and about 3 years with sealed cartridge bearings.
    You kinda have to get good at cup and cone maintenance with determining the proper preload (how tight the cones are) before you dont over or underload them. And if you live anywhere where it rains, and you're using lower end/ older hub technology

    • @joshuabuilds3051
      @joshuabuilds3051 3 дні тому

      You'll be servicing your hubs weekly in the wet seasons and biweekly in the dry seasons, whereas even older sealed bearing hubs just stand up to bad weather so much better. I refresh the surface layer of grease every now and then for sealed bearings but im still on cheap PGN bearings about 4,000 miles later with no cones to adjust and its just way better.

  • @bluemovies3397
    @bluemovies3397 3 місяці тому +21

    Peak Torque released a video recently where he was yacking his head off over safety concerns around the type of spoke/hub interface in the All Carbon Evo wheels. He was not a fan of that design where to spokes can just pop out rather than running through a thru hole. Hit a big bump and you can pop spokes out and get pretty screwed.

    • @StopTheRot
      @StopTheRot 3 місяці тому +2

      He’s 100% correct

    • @RylHango
      @RylHango 3 місяці тому

      you can easily tell by the spoke interface which brands really care farsports/crw/elitewheels

    • @suhdud4646
      @suhdud4646 3 місяці тому +9

      You do know that this isnt exclusive to Chinese wheelsets. CADEX 50 Ultra and 65s have the same hub/spoke interface.
      I hightly doubt if it was such a cause for concern that major brands flagship wheelsets wouldnt feature this "problematic" design let alone be used during the TdF.

    • @66mikkim
      @66mikkim 2 місяці тому +1

      @@suhdud4646 they are "used" during the TdF cause the Sponsers PAY the teams to use them!

    • @htdtr
      @htdtr 2 місяці тому

      Didn't he mention one case where it happened though? I'm not sure it would be something I'd be worried about tbh

  • @Archiconocido
    @Archiconocido 3 місяці тому +2

    At the end of the day, all wheels are made in asian factories. The C50's are made in Malasia. So, same labour and likely same materials in all of them..If any we are paying extra for the peace of mind of a consolidated brand like Shimano or Enve or Zipp that are bullet proof.

  • @TimR123
    @TimR123 3 місяці тому +2

    The hub flange design on the 'all carbon' wheelset is terrifying. There is no retention of the spoke in case of wheel damage. I recently saw a video of a race crash where the rider had wheel collapse because of that design.

  • @leeeric8436
    @leeeric8436 3 місяці тому +3

    We gotta talk about powermeter next. There's too much out there delivering almost the same +/- numbers, but are they really any different ?

  • @EricRidesDirt
    @EricRidesDirt 3 місяці тому +19

    Those open-spoke hooks are terrifying. One comes loose, and they can all fall out. No thanks

    • @mike_f
      @mike_f 3 місяці тому

      Yep. Manufacturers could add a simple retention plate to solve that too.

  • @gwakbaam9150
    @gwakbaam9150 3 місяці тому +38

    I think the thumbnail is wrong. Is that right? 😂😂

    • @basedgodstrugglin
      @basedgodstrugglin 3 місяці тому +19

      If dura ace wheels were 520 I’d buy a pair right now

    • @laurenz323
      @laurenz323 3 місяці тому +13

      Yeah. Its a Marketing Trick. People will comment that something is wrong and thats pushing the algorithm. And it works ;)

    • @MD-tr1yv
      @MD-tr1yv 3 місяці тому

      I was just gonna say….

    • @Youngshawnoutthemix
      @Youngshawnoutthemix 3 місяці тому

      @@basedgodstrugglin😂

    • @tweeling1977
      @tweeling1977 3 місяці тому

      Interesting, The only thing I'm missing in the test is which wheel is best for which cyclist. As an example, if you cycle between 5,000 and 8,000 km per year on all types of road surfaces, which wheel choice is wise in terms of maintenance and robustness. The test should be repeated in the longer term and from there the data can be compared and an accurate choice made.

  • @florianwienhold9307
    @florianwienhold9307 3 місяці тому +5

    How does this fit with the video about Alloy vs. Carbon? Does this mean that aluminum wheels are just as good as 50mm carbon wheels? ⁉

    • @gregmorrison7320
      @gregmorrison7320 2 місяці тому

      The biggest aero gains are going from a box section to 35mm rim, after that aero gains are marginal, so yes, a 35mm alloy rim should provide as much aero benefit as a similar carbon rim, won't be as stiff, that may or may not be a good thing to you. All these guys fitting carbon rims to their gravel bikes....not the path I have chosen.

  • @mikemorris3421
    @mikemorris3421 3 місяці тому +10

    Not sure about your assertion cup and cone are easier to service. My own experience they are a pain to set up, messy and time consuming. Cartridge bearings as long as you have the tool quick easy and clean to service plus all is new including the bearing surface, ready to roll. No contest!

    • @DaveCM
      @DaveCM 3 місяці тому +3

      I agree. I much prefer cartridge bearings over the cup and cone.

    • @NorCalCycling
      @NorCalCycling  3 місяці тому +3

      I also prefer cartridge. I guess what I meant is, cartridge bearings aren't serviceable beyond simple relube/grease, you just replace them. Cup and cone are serviceable, but i totally agree it's a mess and a pain, but for some worth the hassle.

    • @mikemorris3421
      @mikemorris3421 3 місяці тому

      @@NorCalCycling Agreed.

    • @l.d.t.6327
      @l.d.t.6327 Місяць тому

      I have ridden on Campagnolo record hubs in all weather, either bora, hyperon or eurus, and dura ace hand build, and haven’t even needed to regrease the hubs once! The main issue (with all hubs) are the bearings in the body, especially the outer bearing which will rust no matter what. But cup and cone is awesome, very easy to fine tune (and once tuned you don’t need to do anything and they spin sooo smooth).

  • @colecoleman1499
    @colecoleman1499 2 місяці тому

    Awesome video. Hambini explained way back that dimple placement does nothing. It seriously boils down to what you mentioned. Shimano can pay huge sums to teams while start ups and alike make equally good product aero wise but cant pay huge sums. The only difference is in quality and longevity. You can NOT change laws of physics. A 45 rim depth would have to face same laws of physics as the expensive one provided stifness isnt the limiting factor or the wheel would flex and wont race ahead. I would be really grateful if you did and all out 500 metre or 1 km speed test where the expensive wheel stiffness may stand out and the most economical wheel you choose may not be as good. The carbon bladed spokes on the mid tier ones would truly stand out when thrown in high speeds

  • @gaborozorai3714
    @gaborozorai3714 3 місяці тому +1

    I'm a fan of the cheap stuff but you should have done a lateral stiffness test. That's where they tend to fall short according to other tests.

  • @vnvtraining7203
    @vnvtraining7203 3 місяці тому +3

    I just bought the Durace C50 wheelset! Love them :)

    • @balazspandi9782
      @balazspandi9782 2 місяці тому +1

      Good choice. I also have them. Awesome wheelset!

  • @georgepepper5993
    @georgepepper5993 3 місяці тому +1

    I think I have the previous generation Classic pros for $450. They are 1600 grams and not as wide. The new ones look like a great update

  • @danstenis660
    @danstenis660 Місяць тому

    Super Team should put star ratchet hub onto their Classic Pro wheelset. In fact, Super Team should only use the star ratchet on all of their wheels.

  • @bendardania
    @bendardania 3 місяці тому +7

    Jeff, you have to dig deeper on this matter. In my experience on the flats super teams were identical to the “rest”, difference was when I started climbing and descending. I highly recommend you do another all round test. Cheers

    • @gcanzano36
      @gcanzano36 3 місяці тому

      Better or worse

    • @bendardania
      @bendardania 3 місяці тому

      @@gcanzano36 I am gonna answer it like this: I tested them around one of the most dangerous descends in Northern America; downhill on the last descend on papa-bear in Orinda CA. (If you don’t pay attention you die.) supper fun long descend with broken and bumpy asphalt, if you know what you doing lots of fun but if you don’t pay attention you will be in the world of hurt.
      I tested them with C50, Enve 4.5 and Zipp Firecrest 303.
      100% popular brands felt more comfortable/ confident… but the difference/ advantage is really hard to justify. Now I wouldn’t be surprised if Jeff’s experience is different since I am very heavy rider these days. Sorry for long answer.

    • @NorCalCycling
      @NorCalCycling  3 місяці тому +3

      i do a flat aero test because that is the easiest to quantify and has the most impact on performance. Uphill performance is simple it's just weight. Downhill "comfort / confidence" is very subjective

    • @bendardania
      @bendardania 3 місяці тому +1

      @@NorCalCycling no, no that has nothing to do with subjectiveness, but the actual performance of wheel. Hub design, lacing of the spokes, tension of spokes, hoop construction…. all can lead to how you feel on the bike. Details matter so much when it comes to wheels, so much that even the slightest change in tension could lead to divinations. Let me not get started on the flex that it could have which would impact the rub of the disc…. Etc.

  • @MegaRobboz
    @MegaRobboz 3 місяці тому +2

    I live and hence ride in conditions where a cup and cone is supposedly better but can tell you since cartridge style bearings are cheap, unless you go for ceramic but you shouldnt, and so much simpler to service you save in time whatever you might gain. Cup and cone is ass, always has been, always will be. Fuck those bearings.

  • @Gianniz27
    @Gianniz27 3 місяці тому +6

    Its ceramic coating on alu hub shell, not ceramic bearings.

    • @trwilliams22
      @trwilliams22 3 місяці тому

      Ah, just a tad misleading.

    • @NorCalCycling
      @NorCalCycling  3 місяці тому +2

      this isn't made clear on their website, but if true, it's a great addition. One thing that brands will do to cut weight and cost is use aluminum in the hubshell. The hubshell splines can get damaged by the harder materials used in the cassette. I've even seen cassettes stuck on freehub shells for this reason.

  • @lolbubs11111
    @lolbubs11111 3 місяці тому +1

    Cartridge bearings are way easier to service. Just replace the cartridge! They're a few bucks.

  • @graemehill
    @graemehill 3 місяці тому

    For me, the power of the marketing message is: we are so confident in our product that we are willing to give it to pros, have them use it on TV with our logos visible such that we will be humiliated if they crack in half. When you buy a brand name it's like an insuranve policy because the brand can't afford to look bad if the product fails spectacularly. That's a pretty low bar tbf but I'm willing to pay an extra 10% for it. Unfortunately they often ask you to pay an extra 100% 😅

  • @hananas2
    @hananas2 2 місяці тому

    I personally strongly advise against cup & cone bearings in wheels, because I've personally just never needed to worry about cartridge bearings. 100% set and forget.
    Whereas cup & cone bearings need regular servicing, and I've had the races go bad after being neglected too long and *that* is a real pain in the ass..

  • @LT-rk6fr
    @LT-rk6fr 3 місяці тому +1

    You got it backwards with the bearing systems.
    Cartridge bearings are superior to the cup and cone design especially in rainy and muddy conditions because
    you can get cartridge bearings with 2 sided contact seals that keep out 100% of the dirt and keep the grease in.
    (and these are probably also waterproof unless you start pressure washing them)
    Compare this to the cup and cone design where you get a one sided seal that is not very good at keeping water out and the grease slowly disappears at the non-sealed side.
    Also in cartridge designs you get an additional line of defense in the form of a dust cap whereas the cup and cone seal is directly exposed to the elements.
    SKF (a huge bearing manufacturer) have an online bearing efficiency calculator. If you fill it up with relevant data it will show that you lose about 2 Watts @ 40 kph when using bearings with 2 sided contact seals in your wheels.
    With this tool one can also see that ceramic bearings in bicycle wheels are a total scam. I don't remember exactly but a regular steel bearing with non-contact/no seals had about 0.1 Watt system loss. Going for ceramic instead of steel bearings is like knocking off an ant from your shoulder to reduce weight.
    Service is also easier in case of cartridge systems. You get 4 new bearings for ~20 $, then pop out the old ones and press in the new ones.
    Also as others mentioned your hub can get damaged in the cup and cone system. One of my cheap decathlon cup and cone mtb wheels developed a pitted surface after just 1 year of use.

  • @thenoodlehunter6828
    @thenoodlehunter6828 Місяць тому

    Was also thinking, if 5mm deepness made that much of a difference in that times as well haha. In saying that, you also get a pair of climber wheels as well. Great all rounda.

  • @bingbing3464
    @bingbing3464 3 місяці тому

    The even crazier chinese option which i ded: ring up a carbon wheel oem to make just the pair of rims at a specific spec from a selection of their moulds, carbon layups, drill pattern and even type of seal coating/without. Bring the rims to a local wheel expert to lace it up to a dtswiss or chriskings with cxrays... that was one of the best wheels ever... and i had enves and zipps.

  • @alexgonzalezMI
    @alexgonzalezMI 3 місяці тому

    A friend of mine bought the All Carbon Pro's. They are nice! I bought some Winspace Hyper LUN and these are way nicer than Winspace.

  • @stormeporm
    @stormeporm 2 місяці тому

    with steel spokes you want them to touch. It disperses some of the load to the touching spoke.

  • @hananas2
    @hananas2 2 місяці тому +1

    "what good are fast wheels when you can't repair them? It doesn't make sense"
    *Lightweight has left the chat*

  • @rodrigocampani4555
    @rodrigocampani4555 3 місяці тому

    Thanks for another amazing video. When are you planning to compare standard socks vs aero socks? That would be nice if you haven't done that yet

  • @ribblevalleycyclist
    @ribblevalleycyclist 3 місяці тому

    Great video, enjoyed it. The hub on the All Carbon Pro is poorly designed..... Borderline dangerous. Also, a big point to consider is that a lot of us sell kit when we're done with it. The Superteam product has little to no residual value. The Shimano product will fetch a high price on the second hand market.

  • @balazspandi9782
    @balazspandi9782 2 місяці тому

    I have the C50s. They are awesome! You can often get them for 1600 euros. Its a reasonable price i think.

  • @hill160881
    @hill160881 3 місяці тому +1

    I have three sets of elite wheels and one set of 9vello gravel wheels. Spent less on all of them than one high end set.

  • @detmer87
    @detmer87 3 місяці тому +1

    Shimano Ultegra R8170 C50 Tubeless CL Disc Wheelset can be bought online for 775 pounds / or 1010 dollar...

    • @kubackjeee
      @kubackjeee 3 місяці тому

      But why would anyone but Shimano wheels ? They're very mediocre

    • @balazspandi9782
      @balazspandi9782 2 місяці тому

      Those are bad wheels unfortunately. Not like the dura ace . My riding mate has lots of problems with the ultegra.

  • @joshuabuilds3051
    @joshuabuilds3051 3 дні тому

    Im really bad at taping rims airtight. I would build a wheelset with sealed rim beds in exchange for never taping the rim again.

  • @naf2579
    @naf2579 3 місяці тому +1

    Consumers want peace of mind with a robust warranty. That is the only reason they buy from the big brands. The wheels are no better than better known Chinese brands.

  • @setolygon
    @setolygon 3 місяці тому

    test the low end carbon frames like elves, trifox and OG-Evkin. Probably the aero frame also marketing message "aero".

  • @razorree
    @razorree 8 днів тому

    how is the ride on carbon spokes? way more stiffer? less comfortable ?

  • @bowlst12
    @bowlst12 3 місяці тому

    To be fair, that is a far greater advantage than I was expecting. If you were racing over 2 hrs, that's well over a minute gain with the C50s which is definitely significant!

    • @rogerbergua6268
      @rogerbergua6268 3 місяці тому +2

      The small difference observed in the 4.7 mile course can be perfectly explained by the difference in profile: 50 vs 45 mm.

    • @bowlst12
      @bowlst12 3 місяці тому

      @@rogerbergua6268 fair enough 👍

  • @saracen888
    @saracen888 3 місяці тому +7

    DA 12spd wheel sets have been plagued with hub issues. Beware of buying
    Also, their warranty is only 2 years and no crash replacement offered

    • @NorCalCycling
      @NorCalCycling  3 місяці тому +1

      FWIW I've had no problems, and raced them all 10 days of intelligentsia

    • @johndef5075
      @johndef5075 2 місяці тому +1

      The Xt and Xtr hubs are crap too. Silly design. Deore is better though heavier.

  • @rockytalkndawoods3057
    @rockytalkndawoods3057 3 місяці тому

    Do a standard spoked, vs. Rolf prima wheel.
    Classic pros sound great for crits. You are just going to crash, so this makes it easier.

  • @suhdud4646
    @suhdud4646 3 місяці тому

    People going on about the hub/spoke interface. You do know that this EXACT same design is featured on the Cadex wheelset used by team Jayco-AlUla and Liv-AlUla pro teams durning this years TdF. I seriously doubt that Giant would have their wheels featured on the grand stage knowing that the design is flawed because that would demolish their reputation.

    • @davidgeorge9233
      @davidgeorge9233 3 місяці тому +2

      Regardless of who uses the design, it is still flawed if the spokes can exit the hub and unlace the wheel. It’s so easy to mitigate you have to wonder why the designers choose not to add some prevention for this issue into the design.

  • @ytwos1
    @ytwos1 2 місяці тому

    So,the pal ratchet is ap-pal-ling while the star ratchet is star-ring. Sorry. Great video, well explained and fun to watch.

  • @TheMeyerWay
    @TheMeyerWay 3 місяці тому

    Test those cheap wheels against aluminum rims like what came on my bike 17 years ago that I’m still riding. I have been contemplating buying those superteam wheels and if you test this and it shows a nice gain for me I’ll buy them right away.

  • @ozgurinsan
    @ozgurinsan 3 місяці тому +4

    105 wheelset is also good option.

    • @Archiconocido
      @Archiconocido 3 місяці тому

      The rs710 are great wheels. And cheaper.

  • @alainpfammatter8224
    @alainpfammatter8224 3 місяці тому

    great video and testing. Thank you

  • @metamurph
    @metamurph 3 місяці тому

    the beside perf part I wanted to hear is wind impacts.

  • @deltagchemistry12
    @deltagchemistry12 3 місяці тому

    Pretty sure one of those clips is from Davis CA. Looks like a road I used to ride on every weekend

  • @h31sman
    @h31sman 3 місяці тому

    You can pretty much expand on this conclusion for all bike upgrades. You don’t need the latest bike with latest tech to keep up or go fast. You can be on an entry level bike with Sora & keep up fine with good tubes/tires. That’s the best upgrade for your bike and it’s the cheapest. Everything else is so marginal that it’s negligible. Truthfully, it’s all for vanity bc some of us like a little bling & that’s okay.

  • @toshman696969
    @toshman696969 3 місяці тому

    i wouldn't say they don't care....as you said
    they look for optimal deal but if a team like inos uae keep performing crappy the equipment will not be wanted in the market space.

  • @inVINCEible64
    @inVINCEible64 3 місяці тому

    Had a pair of Superteam wheels and remember them being pretty janky back in 2019 and swore to never buy a “chinese wheelset” again. But these updates look pretty promising.

  • @rudolffourie
    @rudolffourie 3 місяці тому

    Jeff, huge fan of the channel for the last couple years. We need some new angle, story line etc etc. what that is i do not know but cheap, mid, high not really keeping me watching all the way. Race analysis great. Need more. Again big fan so only feedback with good intentions

    • @rudolffourie
      @rudolffourie 3 місяці тому

      A European tour, maybe get glen back on. Come and race in Europe.

  • @thedronescene7474
    @thedronescene7474 3 місяці тому

    There is more to a wheel then just “performance”. Carbon wheels are the same as a carbon frame, where some frames are very harsh and stiff, others are less and others are just perfect. Wheels are the same and when you buy from a well known brand you are getting a tested product to perform in a well balanced manner. In the other hand, most china wheels are just copycats of the brand name while they “performance” the same in speed, they many times do not feel the same!

  • @TalleyrandsPuppet
    @TalleyrandsPuppet 2 місяці тому

    Your neighbors must think you’re nuts riding back and forth.

  • @Ni1zz
    @Ni1zz 3 місяці тому +1

    Some cheap Chinese wheels fall apart on good bumps. I have seen photos of splitted rims of elitewheels

  • @padraigmoran5710
    @padraigmoran5710 2 місяці тому

    Hey mate, if you were to have a wheel with 31mm external width and 23mm internal width, would you go with a 28mm or 30mm tyre? Ideal would be 29mm, but not available in brand I use…

  • @jbaairways2763
    @jbaairways2763 3 місяці тому

    Great test Jeff

  • @TESTA-CC
    @TESTA-CC 3 місяці тому

    Vintage Aluminium Tubular Wheels For The Win 🤙🤙

  • @TXLogic
    @TXLogic 3 місяці тому

    Great info, thanks.

  • @王志聪-c8c
    @王志聪-c8c 3 місяці тому

    I heard that they are running a 10th anniversary special sale, and I kind of want to try Chinese wheels.

  • @Smileyouareamazing
    @Smileyouareamazing 3 місяці тому

    Everyone around just put those DA wheels away because they suck 😅. Would be much more interesting to compare Pricentons and ENVE 4.5 or Zipp NSW and CRW and those heavy but fast DT Arc 1100 and Superteams. I would be very interested in the results! This test was not fun at least for me. But still thanks mate for this!

  • @rayF4rio
    @rayF4rio 3 місяці тому

    I could be wrong, but you only need to go inside the rim (with a magnet) if you need to replace a nipple. Spoke replacement can be done without replacing the nipple. Right?

    • @yonglingng5640
      @yonglingng5640 3 місяці тому

      Although it's possible, it's better to replace the nipple too since the nipple's threads may have been stressed from the spoke breakage. A single nipple doesn't cost much too.

  • @xuchenglin6256
    @xuchenglin6256 3 місяці тому +1

    HONESTY is all I appreciate of this channel. Thank you! I have to add that single digit seconds difference could just be the difference between 45mm and 50mm. We are in the MARGINAL realms here, so marginal difference in the depth makes sense for the marginal gains on the seconds. For anyone who have actually opened up a free hub, he'll immediately know all those "sound checks" are just bullshit and is just for those amateurs who don't even dare to tare apart the mysterious free hub device like a 10 yrs old kid. Once you opened it up, you'll laugh, "What??? All we are talking about is this thing???". The "spring" is just a bended metal wire... The "paw" is just a small triangular tapered metal block... You'll get shocked by how simple that thing is (you can invent this yourself if you are not stupid) and feel all those obsessions are just nonsense. I didn't go the DT route because my use just couldn't justify the cost. The instant engagement is crucial when you ride a XC bike on a real XC course. If I were a MTB guy I would give everything for that first. That gap means losing momentum on the steep section that result in getting off the bike and walk for us noobs. Maybe if you can't track stand, that instant engagement thing could help either but for road, I don't see a difference... Actually currently one of my wheel's cartridge bearing is running rough if you dismount it and feel it with your finger. However, in real world situation, this "faulty" wheel still could go forever when you cruise. It's completely not perceivable. The modern bearings and stuff are becoming so good that it almost become irrelevant. And when I actually riding, I know all the enemy I need to concur is called AIR. Compared with that, all the others are all in the margin of errors. The industry needs more honesty and less marketing. At least don't over do it like brand does now, it makes people sick. BTW I'm no slow beach cruiser. I ride fast. I'm obsessed with marginal gains. I ride in a very aggressive position and constantly experimenting the extremes. But I also know you have to live under the principle of significance. You got to solve the most significant part of the problem first, and be easy with those trailing factors that matter very little. That's how you not to fall into the traps setup by those marketing companies.

  • @Nehpets1701G
    @Nehpets1701G 3 місяці тому +2

    Yo guys, I'm still running a rim brake bike. Any suggestions for good and affordable carbon wheelset - preferably 40 to 50mm deep?

    • @richardggeorge
      @richardggeorge 3 місяці тому +3

      Light Bicycle wheels. Not the cheapest but good quality. Several riders in Melbourne use them with no issues including myself

    • @Nehpets1701G
      @Nehpets1701G 3 місяці тому

      ​@@richardggeorgethanks for the info 👍

    • @yonglingng5640
      @yonglingng5640 3 місяці тому

      ​@@richardggeorge Anybody in Australia riding with wheelsets built with Nextie rims? I'm thinking of getting their rims as my first carbon wheelset build for my two road bikes (one rim, one disc).

  • @darrengarvie8832
    @darrengarvie8832 3 місяці тому

    That was super interesting thanks

  • @JonathanHair
    @JonathanHair 3 місяці тому +1

    Buying Dura ace might be sponsoring pro teams, but buying superteam is sponsoring youtubers :)

  • @boc-tonysyklist2145
    @boc-tonysyklist2145 2 місяці тому

    Claiming that the pro team don’t care about performance is obviously wrong/a lie/a slip of the tongue. Of course they care and they is also why we often see these “tricked out” bikes with non standard parts which in some cases have even been 3D-printed specifically for that rider. Even if we see a pro rider on a branded frame with branded wheels we do not necessarily notice what bottom brackets they are using, which bearings they have decided to use, which chainrings and cranks they are using and the list goes on.

  • @stuartdryer1352
    @stuartdryer1352 2 місяці тому +1

    No difference based on your data. It was all within the margin of error.

  • @lumarcus6062
    @lumarcus6062 3 місяці тому

    The only reason for me to buy s dura ace wheelset is because its hub and durability. Dura ace wheelset has little advantage on weight or aerodynamics

  • @frankstrobel4350
    @frankstrobel4350 3 місяці тому

    As mentioned…ride quality needs to be addressed (compliance) and lateral stiffness/stability. In the MTB world this is huge.

    • @AnthraXXmS
      @AnthraXXmS 3 місяці тому +1

      Is this an MTB channel?

    • @frankstrobel4350
      @frankstrobel4350 3 місяці тому +1

      @@AnthraXXmS Compliance is big on mtb …and also road. Feel better now ?

  • @Moneyandfood
    @Moneyandfood 2 місяці тому

    Any comments on the old Mavic Cosmic Carbone Ultimate? CF spokes but rims have alloy with CF shields.

  • @Dolbouck7
    @Dolbouck7 3 місяці тому

    Being the same manufacturer could you add the star ratchet to the cheaper wheelset?

  • @aaronpaterson7582
    @aaronpaterson7582 3 місяці тому

    Hey love The Scott foil RC
    . How does it ride and what size did you get?

  • @kfrivaldo
    @kfrivaldo 2 місяці тому

    How about making a video of which is the "best" China made carbon wheelset? Please consider including Nepest and Elitewheels wheelsets. looking forward to this :) P.S. I already saw your video about Ican vs Roval.

  • @danaiponchalee4679
    @danaiponchalee4679 Місяць тому

    So basically 50mm are faster than 45mm. The new Superteam D28-50 should give more bang on buck then.

  • @timtaylor9590
    @timtaylor9590 3 місяці тому

    i would at least want sapim aero spokes, dont care about a dragging ratchet hub, if anything the paw hubs are faster. that engagement isnt needed.

  • @thatguy9051
    @thatguy9051 3 місяці тому

    Question, wouldn't it come down to the hubs all other things being fairly equal?

  • @sigfreed11
    @sigfreed11 3 місяці тому

    Have you considered riding in the indieVelo Grand Tour race coming up later next month?!
    You could put together a really strong GC team 💪🏻
    Let me know if you are interested! I can get you details

  • @mikeyvaccaro
    @mikeyvaccaro 3 місяці тому

    While I agree with your comment that buying higher end wheels is a marketing tactic that the pros use so we should too.
    I have to say in my humble opinion, you’re also spending that much money for a product with much more testing in quality and reliability.
    Now this isn’t always the case however, when you’re spending the money on let’s say Shimano, Bontrager, Zipp, HED, DT Swiss ect.
    You’re spending that kind of money on a product that has much more quality control and reputation to their product than some smaller brand when it comes to quality and durability.
    Does this mean you have to spend that kind of money, absolutely not.
    However, I would trust those products more than some smaller company or Chinese knockoffs!

    • @NorCalCycling
      @NorCalCycling  3 місяці тому +1

      true, QAQC and product support with larger US based companies is generally better, but you'd be surprised at how far the overseas brands have come. Also, in this case, shimano doesn't offer crash replacement, so no benefit in that regard.

    • @mikeyvaccaro
      @mikeyvaccaro 3 місяці тому

      @@NorCalCycling oh I totally agree that the overseas brands have come an extremely long way. As for Shimano, I’ve never owned their wheels and don’t know anything regarding their warranties or issues.
      However, I would still rather invest my money into brands with a better reputation for their products.
      But that’s me, not everyone can afford the top of line spec components, and for those people it’s worth shopping for better alternatives, and it is nice to see more competition at the lower to mid range category of components nowadays!