Where Does LeBron's Longevity Factor in the GOAT Discussion? | THE ODD COUPLE
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- Опубліковано 20 лют 2024
- THE ODD COUPLE - Chris Broussard & Rob Parker react to Kevin Durant's recent comments about how LeBron James' longevity factors into the overall greatness of his career up to this point.
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People act they rather have 4 rings 4 finals mvp 4 league MVPs 1 scoring title 1 assist title over 6 rings 6 finals mvps 5 league MVPs 1 Defensive player of year 10 scoring titles 3 steals titles
💯
🗣️
Only Lebron fans
Longevity has never been a real topic of discussion with any of the other Greats so why should it be with LeBron?
Because playing with more all stars than anyone in history just to be a team hopping loser in Finals is embarrassing. Especially if you called yourself goat to the world lmfao
And his longevity will only hurt him in the argument he isn’t winning any mvps no scoring titles defensive titles or the championships shi he can’t even be a top 8 team with all these trades at the deadline lol😂
MJ's 13 year with the bulls includes his second season(missed most of season with foot injury) and 1995 when he came back after baseball(played 17 games)
So 11 FULL seasons?
@@thewintersoldier383 yeah... MJ woudl've average 30-35PPG in his second season.....If he wasnt injured and retired in 93... MJ woul've he 40K points in 15 seasons.
Mj never played for the wizards?
@@bigboner23 I mean he was there lol. Chillin
He quit, couldn't handle half the pressure LBJ is under.
Lebron left miami without telling wade and he got wade traded in Cleveland dam thats a good friend. The man wants to win the ez way
He didn’t get Wade traded Cavs asked Wade did he wanna go back to Miami. Stop lying
@@TakinDubsShaq2 things can be right at the same time.
@@jonathansimmons6452 what??? I just told you what happen…
@Apocalypse2031 Amen
Like KD
Does anyone want to admit that Lebron stopped playing one side of the floor back in 2018. The man don’t play defense and plays 55 games a year since joining LA! If MJ played one side of the ball and only played 55 games who could played until he was 45
And probably would of upped his offensive numbers a bit as well. Then throw in wide open lanes and no d or hand checking and god knows what his scoring avg would of been.
PRAISE HIS LONGEVITY of.... only playing half of 55 games per year!!!
THANK YOUUUUUU..✊🏿
Jordan played in multiple 82 game seasons. While still competing at an incredible level, not even counting the playoffs. I think playing in playing so many 82 game seasons is something people don’t give MJ enough credit for in regard to longevity.
I give credit for trying for sure to MJ. He's like Kobe, Allen Iverson... Russell Westbrook. They try, and they give their soul to the game.
This is different, though.
We've never seen this. For someone to be in year 20 and still be among the best.
This is uncharted territory, so we don't know how to explain it given our limited perspective.
Longevity =/= body of work. MJ's body of work in 15 years was more dominant than LeBron's in 21 years.
Very true. I’m still baffled at how we all woke up morning and decided Bron is #2 behind MJ, leap frogging ahead of other all time greats with higher peaks and more accomplishments. I think part of it had to do with Bron self-proclaiming himself as GOAT on his barbershop show. It made us focus on just him and MJ but did he really deserve to leap ahead the likes of Kareem, Magic, Kobe, etc.? The more I reflect on Baron’s career, the more I believe otherwise.
Exactly
@@hk2737We can thank the media for that. I'll never ever view Lebron ahead of MJ, Kareem & Russell especially. I think Lebron is 4th-7th at best/worst. He's definitely not the greatest or in 2nd. A lot of Lebron's career is orchestrated due to needing superteams to win most of his rings.
💯💯💯
@@johng4099remind me again....what did Jordan win without Pippen? He won several playoff series right? Oh wait....that's a negative. Well he beat Bird right? Oh wait... negative.
He beat Magic when Kareem had just retired, Worthy was hurt as was Cooper, and game one Magic killed Jordan. Wasn't until game 2 when Pippen took Magic the series changed. Jordan is so overrated it's comical.
He never plays 82;games
Yes he does. In fact he’s played 70 plus games 17 times. And look at 8 straight finals. How many games does one have to play to do that.
@@TheReBrandNetwork 70 plus not 82.. 8 straight finals barely 4 wins 1 saved by Ray Allen
There's a reason why The Beatles are regarded higher than The Rolling Stones. Greatness in a shorter period of time is better than less greatness for a longer time.
its that simple
nice analogy!
👏👏🔥🔥
Boy this a W take 🔥😤
nah....
Longevity just shows you can be the all-time points leader while winning only ONE scoring-title.
Lmao
Checkmate
Nobody mentions that Lebron years ago became the Turnover leader, wich also comes with longevity
Playing one 82 game season with reduced back-to-backs and load management
He passed MJ in points on less shot attempts. Checkmate.
You already know Robs answer on anything lebron without watching.
Rob is the only one who speaks the truth about le6time so I got no issues with him unlike others who's mouths are still sticky with white slime on em now with bad knees
@@Be.authentic_ robs formula is getting the popular opinion and going to the other spectrum.
@@Bolttoast Lol..Rob doesn't have a formula. I can't understand how this dude is still around.
He’s right tho
Rob is paid to hate Lebron and he enjoys it because he is a Lebron hater
At this point, Bron's longevity claim is beginning to hurt him. Yes, having the most points is great achievement enabled by longevity so is the most turnovers, most missed shots and most free-throw misses.
Preach tho
Brilliant observation, I couldn't agree more 💯
Disagree. Other guys would've eclipsed his negative stats if they could still hack it from a positive standpoint. No one else was able to score 25+ in year 20+ or come even close. That's why those guys left the league.
@@drexeldragon1723 I disagree with your disagreement🤣 not sure of the exact number, but didn’t they say in this clip that Vince Carter play 22yrs not sure, but I don’t think Vince Carter has as many misses as LeBron or turnovers as LeBron or missed free throws as LeBron🤷🏾
@@user-yc6br3vb9s come on, man. What are we doing here? Carter didn't average more than 30 minutes a game once he turned 34 years old so of course he's going to miss fewer shots and have fewer turnovers. He's taking fewer shots and simply handling the ball less because he was...wait for it, not nearly as good as LeBron is at the same age. LeBron's shooting over 50% for his career to Carter's 43%, but sure, drag LeBron for missing shots.
6 championships in 15 seasons is objectively better than 4 championships in over 20 years.
Also DPOY, many more scoring titles and 1st team All-Defense selections.
Jordan is the GOAT!
And not to mention not a full 15 because he only played 17/18 games one year because of his ankle and when he came back out of retirement, he only played 18 games
Lol😂
When comparing you have to take out Championships due to Jordan having the better team during finals appearances. Without MJ Bulls were a second round playoff team. Without Bron his teams were lottery picks. Also how many people in NBA averaged 27+ a season to compete with MJ in scoring titles besides Malone. Every allstar averages that during Bron era. I’m not saying Bron better but it seems not to many noticed MJ chucked up a lot of shots meaning Bron scored more than MJ on less shots meaning more efficient. Bron wants to win games but MJ wanted to be the one that wins the game. Both GOATS!!
@@HEYFAMMeaslyGthe Bulls were a 3-peat winning franchise with a winning culture in 1994 when they went to the ECSF. Total difference than Cleveland in 2010-13 when they tore up that team and went thru a rebuild. The bulls in 95 were a fledging .500 team without Jordan. A year later they went 72-10 . Also, when it comes with Jordan’s scoring titles, Nique early on was putting up 30+ . Later on, Shaq was coming close to the scoring title.
@@rackball5858 my point exactly! MJ had a better supporting cast for all his finals than Bron. Pippen had the Bulls 1 game from ECF in 94 without MJ. Outside of the 2 finals in Miami Bron lost the other 4 final L’s his teams were outmatched. MJ would not have won 10 scoring titles if he played against prime Kobe, Steph, KD, Beard, Joel, Greek Freak, Luka…..
Longevity is easy when u playing 65 games
MJ retired 3 times 😂😂😂
@@MRkriegs.. And LeBron juices up. What's your point?
Jordan, Kareem, and Kobe should be the Goat conversation.
Kobe is not in the conversation
@@wangtang12L
Honestly, it should be-
Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
MJ has more accolades in fewer seasons and he more often than not played every single game in a season. Bron did it one time in a hundred years. 😂
Junkie James and his PED use disqualifies him from the discussion
10 years after retired Kareem had played with 53% of the league..
SO WHAT?!!!!
Smaller league tbf in Kareem time so easier to be able to get the percentage of players played with all time who have played in the NBA
He's one of the greatest ever...
Longevity would matter if it was the same game, I'm pretty sure if LBJ played in 1960,he would not last 22years.
What are you even saying lmao
MJ didn’t play in the 60s what you yapping about lil bro
I mean probably not but if Lebron was transplanted into the 1960s they gonna think he’s doing witchcraft at the same time lmao
Can’t have it both ways tbh
@@OMAR-vk9pi It's not rocket science the games were more physical, diet, shoes, sport science were not near what they are today. They had to play back to backs, you were required to play all the games load manage wasn't even a concept crappy transportation. Everyone thinks it was easier back then but it wasn't it's, easier now.
@@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 Not really they had Wilt so it's not that big of a stretch to LeBron, and he not doin his leaping with those Chucks on his feet.
It’s like KD said… Longevity is APPRECIATED! that’s it. If your favorite player is around a long time, you’ll appreciate that greatly. But you’ll appreciate your favorite player winning more championships, scoring titles, MVP’s, game winners, and final MVP’s much more than JUST longevity.
This topic is the golden ticket for cheap clicks in a low sports news cycle 😂
Footballs done so there gonna beat the nba horse till its deqd
Agree. No matter how hard we debate, it wont change the fact that they are all great players and a very rich wealthy men. And the goat debate is very subjective.
Amen!! 😂😂😂
Facts!!!
That’s all to get anybody’s to say anything and act like it is law…… opinions are just that
Longevity hurts Lebron. He did less in more time. Only 4 championships in 20 years. This isn’t like Brady where he won 7.
This season King Turnover leads the Lakers in turnovers also is NBA leader in turnovers in history.with over 5100 turnovers no one will break it.
Yall blame longevity for the positive, credit it for the negative too
@@TheReBrandNetworkmental gymnastics don’t make sense 😂
Media don’t want to talk about it either
LeBron don't play defense. So what's incredible about dominating shot attempts to keep your point average.
LeBron played 20 years won 4 rings. Jordan played 15 and won 6.
If Jordan played now with modern day recovery, better medical staffs, less back to backs, longer all star breaks, less physicality overall, "load management", he'd play just as long as LeBron, gotten more numbers.
*Stop lying to yourself. MJ played 15 seasons but retired 3 times and took years off to rest. That's more rest than LeBron ever got in 20+ years. MJ also drank, smoked, partied, and gambled before games. If he played today, his habits would be even worse. Stop trying to sugarcoat MJ just to make him seem better than LeBron.*
You’re literally the dude they’re calling out in the segment….your argument is just rings. Very shallow and lacking any real substance.
How u know
@@user-zj8fq8be2gso lets put stats u mean? which lack more substance. example in 2014 finals vs spurs lebron scores 28.2ppg. but they are getting blown out everytime. because he scores garbage points?
@Apocalypse2031Well, MJ is 0-6 to Bird, so explain that🤷🏿♂️
It hurts his GOAT debate...all those years and 4 chips lmao
And no 3 peat.
Don’t forget 6 final losses
@@seanguinnthat part doesn’t matter
yall dont know hoop.@@seanguinn
@@afrofree4950yes it does 🤨 too much losing
If you’re not winning chips, not playing defense and just stat padding and not affecting winning then it means nothing!
And may the chior say AMEN!!
That’s Westbrook
Say it again fam!
@@jasonbecke Its Lebron to sir
@@jasonbeckeWestbrook isn't in the conversation
These guys just completely destroyed the longevity argument. And they didn't mention the fact that Kareem dominated the NCAA for 3 years prior to joining the NBA.
best college basketball player ever,no1 is even close
Longevity is also easier now with the decreased physicality of the game as well as improvements in medical care and how much teams pay for the best medical staff.
Exactly, they gloss right over Kareem who is arguably the GOAT. The media has to keep up the narrative for him because that’s the only argument he has.
@Apocalypse2031 Mic drop!
AND Kareem was dominant in high school, for a little extra sauce!😊
It's a different league. You can play longer the way the game is played today. The All Star Game tells you where we are.
LB still hobbling around stadiums affecting very little on the court is only hurting his legacy.
He is still near the top. He is not like Shaq chasing a ring anywhere to match Kobe.
Rob is that you? 😂
Nah that was MJ on the wizards 😂😂😂
@@edwardjr3231 mj on the wizards played defense unlike lebron. Mj wanted to play every game even at his old age. He played 60 games his first year with the wizards he had a bad knee when doctors were draining his knee it was black next year he played all 82 games don’t compare. You young young
@@Ratchetface he had Jerry stack house one year and rip Hamilton the other. Both averaged over 20 and didn't like playing with MJ 🤣. He wasn't holding no D everyone saw those wizard years 😂😂
Y’all don’t realize that longevity arguement is weak in terms of Goat debate . Jordan did more in less time Lebron played way more years than Jordan yet to win a DPODY , No 3peats , less mvps , 1 scoring title , 1 assist title , been apart of 100 trades each season 6 finals loses had more chances to win & didn’t capitalize . When did lebron seriously get into the goat conversation
Longevity is nice and defo has merits in greatest of all time debates
However your peak is going to be more important, longevity becomes more of a factor which 2 people had similar peaks imo
It's real easy. These dudes are hoes. Jordan never ran from no smoke. Now they respect losing over winning.
Preach.
🙏🏾
Facts and for some reason your simple statement is rocket science to LBJ fans. They really believe losing as many times as you can and quitting is goat status. I'm in bizarro world
Longevity is important however there are factors such as impact on winning which will always be more important
Lebron never had the eastern conference on lock. He played zero defense and rested regular season games while coasting to the playoffs in the east every year because the east was incredibly weak. I’m talking about after 2011 when he started his finals run. The toughest competition he faced in 8 straight years in the east was the Paul George baby pacers and the old as dirt Boston Celtics. The bulls were good in 2011 as well. But think about it. Every year he went to the finals between 2011 to 2018 he only faced a few good teams.
If his longevity had won him 7 rings, then he'd be the goat. But he isn't and never will be. This is a manufactured discussion, it's cringe.
LeBron should be at least 5-5 in the finals. That 4-6 is just lackluster.
That Dallas loss is a killer for lebrons legacy
@@MrJonnyl123 its the one that negates every excuse Lebron had. People say Lebron only lost a lot in the finals because he didn't have the better team. Well against Dallas he did and the heat were the clear favorites by everyone except Dallas fans. The excuses left after that loss
Michael 6 Finals,His team favorite all 6 times.LeBron 10 Finals,His team favorite 3 times.
@@garycollier6950 Because Michael is the 🐐. That's why his team was always favored 😅
@@garycollier6950 what does that even prove? Who cares what Vegas thinks just win the damn FMVP. When you open ya mouth you better win and win often. He didn't so he's not the goat. What don't you get?
Dude doesn't even have one 3 peat.
Check this out in LeBron’s era Curry has 4 titles, Kawhai has 2 titles, Durant has 2 titles, Duncan has 2 titles, Giannis has 1 title, Jokic has 1 title, Garnett has 1 title, and my MAVS with Dirk has 1 title. Who’s the goat again????
I do think sometimes who is the greatest player that Bron directly denied them a ring lol, James Harden? (and even then 2018 was unlucky in the sense CP3-6weeks struck again)
Everyone for the most part of who’s who had a chance to eat in Bron time in the league
Curry is the goat in this era since Kobe's era. Lebron is just longevity of empty stat chasing with no D while keeping quitting and hopping from one superteam to another to try to chase an easy ring but still losing Esp when lebron always needs to choose his own rosters everytime than playing with the cards he is dealt with.
Not a six time loser in Finals that's all I know
@@crhuynh8 Currys titles are and will go down in history well respected and acknowledged. He won't be seen as a team hopper looking for clout and cheap titles with ready made teams. Curry put that work in as a leader fr fr
Bird, Isiah, and Magic have rings in Jordan’s era.
Longevity means nothing in the GOAT Conversation
Only to mj fans 😂
😂🤡, mj is the goat but this comment is just ignorant
Robert Horry has more rings than MJ and the Russell has 11.
I wouldn’t say nothing, but it isn’t a significant factor. Otherwise Kareem would have received more goat respect over the years
It means everything in the GOAT conversation
If u gonna weigh in longevity u have to compare it to results…. It’s a personal accomplishment but if u not winning then u might as well put Vince Carter in the discussion 🤷🏾♂️
Facts
Stop it. Vince was washed for 14 years of his career….
I give LeBron mad props for playin at this level for this long. But that's where it stops. Steph has just as many rings as Bron. You also gotta look at the win ratio to year. 4 rings against 16 years of none says it.
Longevity is a double edged sword. You play longer than someone is good but if you still can’t achieve the things the person you are being compared to playing longer hurts
If you playing longer than the Goat you chasing just to have a losing record when it matters most and has accomplished significantly less in more time played then common sense says not only are you not the Goat but has never been realistically in it despite the heavy media push since 2003. It's been over for a long time now realistically for more than a decade and change and I'm glad even his most loyal fans can see that.
They diss Magic, who statistically, had the most successful career of all of them!
The longevity factor only hurts his case. The fact that he has played for so long and still achieved way less than MJ. Lefraud is like number 12th all time, he is still far away from Magic, Kobe, Duncan, Bird. Lefraud should debate wether or not he is better than Curry, cause I'm not sure he is.
Damn imma start a channel and make that my first video I never thought about that take. W
He's no better than bottom of Top-10.
If your going to take longevity into the equation (which you should), then you have to also take the softness off the league (which you should) in the equation, where it allows for longer longevity and opportunity for a healthier and longer career.
When Lebron realized he could not surpass Jordan in chips and personal accolades. The only honest debate was the longevity.
Now, as Chris already stated, what did you do when you were when you were dominant or at your peak? What did you achieve in that span? Longevity is a new topic, so LeBron has a position in the GOAT debate. Why does Kevin Durant say that should be part of the goat conversation?
But what is impressive is that Jordan has never responded to anyone from Pippen to Thomas. His game speaks for itself. However, who is always talking?
That means Jordan ain’t surpass Bill or Kareem?
@@kocanexan2124 The conversation isn't about Kareem or Bill stay on topic
@@dlbarnes yes bought you brought up accolades and chips which Mike doesn’t have the most, he is the leader in nothing, he’s only ever lead his team in scoring. Mike shouldn’t even be compared to Lebron. Mike is the greatest system player ever, he didn’t go too far without his system & HOF coach, can’t really say that about that other guy but all I’m saying is the criteria for you Jordan Fans is flawed and is not consistent.
@@kocanexan2124 I'm on topic. You know what that means, right? If not, listen to Chris and Rob
@@dlbarnes so disingenuous but okay man
The key here is doing more in less time and that's amazing. Longevity hurts Lebron in the long run because he's in season 21 and he's chasing title number five.
This is like TB12 playing at 40. That was impossible in the 80s-90s. QBs were protected in the final 10-15 years of his career.
@@EHh95 my point is that it is difficult to compare, say, Montana to TB12 bc guys simply didn’t play late into their 30s in the same way in the 80s. QBs simply weren’t protected the same ways. I still remember the Saints just destroying Favre and sending him out of the league. TB12 is!amazing, but eras are hard to compare.
@@EHh95definitely an anomaly. 36 was the washed up age pre brady.
Like you said they wasn't even making it to 40. Now they all are gonna play til 40
@@EHh95 I agree
If Brady played in the 80-90s NFL at 38, 39 years old they would have tackled him so hard his knees would turn to dust and cleats fly off.
Bill Russell did that for 11 years but not in the goat discussion
Peak def outweighs longevity. But when peak and longevity is blurred it’s hard to argue.
It's not blurred in this case though. Jordan clearly had the higher peak
Big shout out to Rob Parker about mentioning Jaromír Jàgr next to Wayne Gretzky as an ice hockey GOAT. I really appreciate it. Czech Republic 🇨🇿 🎉❤
Body of work????
Scoring championships, DPOY, chips, etc.
playing and playing ...
look at Kareem at lbj’s age ...
Labron doesn't have a DPOY
This odd couple is a great show I like the way y’all keep it real
To say it’s not about just winning and then talk about winning every 2 years 😂is halarious.
It should matter just like it does for all the other great "longevity players"; Kareem, Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, Malone, Stockton, etc. all played 19+ seasons. What do they get? A slight bump over players that were *AS ACCOMPLISHED AS THEM* in a shorter time. You don't get to put Malone over Bird or Shaq over Magic or Stockton over Oscar *JUST BECAUSE THEY PLAYED LONGER* .
Which would put LeBron 2nd or 3rd, depending on how you view Kareem, FIRMLY behind Jordan.🤷♂️ The idea that he deserves special treatment is nonsense.
All the problems in the league today are reflected in the all-star game. Players are more interested in looking good and having fun, not so much in winning. There are no more rivalries, just friends having a good time!! That's what Durant reflects in his comments...it doesn't matter how much you win, the important thing is to play a lot and play well.
KD's comments are to prove his place in the GOAT conversation because he is going down the same path of longevity without winning and must create the narrative that longevity is even better than winning.
4 championships in 21 years with 6 finals losses. Thats 40 precent in 10 finals. Where as Jordan is 6 championships in 15 years with two threepeats ( nba record). 6 of 6 never lost in finals . 100 precent. 6 Fmvps (nba record) While Jordan average 30.1 ( nba record). Playoff average 33.4 (nba record)
If he won more like Brady with 7 wins in 10 super bowls it would be a bigger factor for me but he hasn't instead it's kind of a negative to be that great that long and win only 4.
on top of all the team hopping and all stars he played with
Exactly. So many want to hail having a losing Finals record well below 500 as the Goat. Well guess what? Keep waiting because it's not happening.
He won 3.5 that fake bubble chip stop it
Kobe 🐐
Not at all after about 12yrs it is what it is! He didn't GO to college like most of the last decade not because of greatness in the beginning but because it's just the way of time!! We will see 15-20yrs more common place!
longevity only matters if youre winning chips since thats the end goal. i think maybe longevity could tie break close careers but in general i think its a small factor. its like how i think nearly everyone would rank pat maholmes over brett favre at this point
Greatest player. Chips are team achievements
I'd never trade longevity for 2 three peats, nobody comes into the league saying I'd like to play a long time.
It's always Quality over Quantity for me.
There is a reason why athletes are playing longer. When there is no contact or resistence, bodies last longer. There is no comparing physicality years back to now; it’s irrelevant and the numbers are inflated. Period!
Tim Duncan is the goat of longevity he was still winning championships and making all nba/ all defensive teams into his late 30s. Brons been finished and not been competitive since 2020
Duncan IIRC made either an all nba or all defence or even both age 38-39 in his penultimate season whilst the spurs were still winning 50+ games
Insane longevity it was only really the very last season did the wheels fall off
@@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 his teams also never won less than 50 games for his whole career bar the lockout in 98 when they still won the championship
@@MrJonnyl123 Honestly the only knock against Tim Duncan is that the spurs never went back to back
Had he done that honestly he would have had a stronger sneaky greatest of all time case to make
Facts
Man was just in the Western Conference finals last year LMAO
Sandy Kofax only played 9 seasons and he's a GOAT...
Bruh is the best mind in sports media in my opinion.
He breaks it down and makes sense.
It has to be peak bro. Rob gave a great example with baseball. The guys with the all-time stats are not the best baseball players to ever play the game. If you see two great boxers in their prime but one retires takes a couple of years off, gets out of shape then comes back to fight the only guy we thought could have beat him in his prime, it's not the same. Jordan only played 14 full seasons in the NBA and that resulted in 14 All-Star seasons, he gave away 4 years of his prime 29-30 and 35-37. The Jordan that retired the second time was still averaging 28.7 pts a game. Us comparing 39 Jordan to 39 LeBron without LeBron coming from sitting on the couch for 3 years is crazy. We have to stop moving the goalpost. LeBron lost this conversation when he came to LA and couldn't get it done with the young guys.
I give it up to Rob, don’t like what he is saying but I’m always on the floor 😂 when he speaks
Longevity is great and all, but accomplishment during the prime years and beating your competition to win the championship should be the ultimate determining factor in the argument. Curry, Kobe, Duncan, Durant and others beat Lebron during the championship title.
Meaning LBJ is not the goat since he lost more than he won all while team hopping and playing with more all stars than anyone in NBA history literally to boot. How embarrassing
5 rings or more would be great conversation. Definitely need one more ring.
They have this debate every week now lol
Longevity is a bad argument. It just says he played a long time. It's taken him a while to try to pass different stars. Yes he's broken some records. However he's accomplished less in playing longer. Jordan did more in 11 seasons than LeBron did in 21 seasons. LeBron also has load management, super teams, meltdowns, and losing when he has had stacked teams. Jordan's PER is higher, his playoff record is better. Finals record wins-losses is better. Not just 6-0, but overall games. Jordan holds more stat titles, more defense accolades, etc. So Longevity hurts LeBron because he's played longer but doesn't win. His stats doesn't lead to the stat titles. He just has accumulated stats and it doesn't prove he's better. He ran away from contests lime the dunk Contest. Because he was afraid of losing. It could be respected if he did it and lost but to never try? No skills challenge? No 3 point Contest? Even Jordan did the 3 pt contest and has the record for worst performance. So it wouldn't be held against him If he lost. Jordan lost a dunk Contest and it's rarely mentioned. So it wouldn't be held against Lebron if he tried. What's used against him is NOT trying. LeBron has some of thr most in missed shot attempts, most shot attempts in history of the sport, most turn overs in thr history of the sport. Do I need to keep going? Some of what I mentioned is never brought up not even by fox sports. Klutch sports influence has been admitted and yet many of you still think Nick Wright isn't feeding you BS.
Three words for Lebron's "Longevity"... HUMAN GROWTH HORMONES
Longevity shouldn't be a part of the GOAT debate but a solid career with individual accolades and team success. Furthermore, why is Longevity important now when it applies to Lebron but it wasn't when we talk about Kareem who was the all time scoring leader and played 20 seasons along with winning 6 championships. Lebron has only 4 championships and Kareem was never considered the GOAT. It's Jordan at no. 1 and there is no GOAT debate...
Participation Goat
This G.O.A.T. conversation is a 24/7 quest for news media creation...pre career sports journalists the conversation used to be MVP on a year to year basis....
Bill Russell is the greatest defensive player in NBA history. He won 11 NBA championships four league MVPs and three consecutive league MVPs. John Havlicek, and Bob Cousy are the Hall of Fame players. The other players played with are not all time great. All of his teammates would tell you he was the main defensive anchor of the Boston Celtics dynasty. He deserves to be in a conversation. I actually have a fourth because I think Kareem is’s number three LeBron James is number two and Michael Jordan is the GOAT! Those are the only four players that deserve to be in the conversation.
For me its
MJ
Kareem
Bill
Bron
@@AL.J0077 I exclude anyone that played in the NBA before merger. They need their own categories due to how different that era was. You can't compare what Russell, Wilt and those other guys accomplished to the modern game. NBA rosters back then didn't allow many blk players on the team. The contracts were vert restricted which is why Oscar ended up suing the league. Those things played a huge role in Boston steam rolling everyone. Like some stats and awards didn't even exist. It was a different game and might as well be a different sport
@@MikeBNumba6I agree it’s with an asterisk but I can’t ignore 11 championships and his defensive value is worth more than some of the best offensive players nba history. A better defensive version of Hakeem.
@@Nickgonelie I don't ignore the 11 chips at all. He's a legend for sure. But it's way too difficult to compare him to modern players.
He and the others before the merger have their own category. Like pioneers of the league. If anyone wants to include Russell and wilt then I have zero problems putting them above Jordan
There's a main factor to me, which is barely discussed almost to none, it's the effect to the audience, the viewers, the fans. Aside of all the accomplishments, Jordan crushed boundaries and crossed borders. His name became a brand, and people all over the world became associated with the sport, and he's known even to people who are not related to this sport. It's hard to imagine that anyone can catch up to this. But this is just my point of view.
Everyone needs to determine for themselves what it is, what is the meaning behind the term GOAT.
How can you say it's incredible when half the game isn't getting played ie Defense, he spent most of his career in the Leastern conference and split everytime something got hard. Not interested in the struggle.... That's part of your legacy and he's failed at that.
These players are going to have to have these types of takes more frequently because of how they are perceived. The last All-Star game is a case in point. They are not given the same respect as past greats because of their lower effort, lack of competitiveness, deference to the game, sense of entitlement, etc. They are going to have to promote one another and use social media to move the narrative of their greatness. They need to say their style of play, skill and shooting is the reason the game scores are so high. Give me a player that totally dominates for 10 years and who you know will win the game. That is better as a fan than a player who is great for 20 years but shares the league with 2-5 other great players. Longevity is great for the owner pockets and the player pockets (hence load management), but a great peak is best for a fan.
I totally agree with Bro. The biggest factor is how good the player in his peak and that peak of MJ is at least 8 to 10 years. When Mj got in to the finals he never lose.
Walter Payton is the greatest running back of all time.. please continue 5:05
This same conversation may come up again in about 10 years with Mahomes and Brady.. Higher peak (Possibly Mahomes) especially if he Three-peats. Versus the insane longevity of Brady..
Longevity is great but if we're putting a standard in Longevity then we have to have put Kareem in there.. there are so many factors that go into being the 🐐..
Bron has passed Kareem in Longevity but Kareem's resume is still a bit better than Bron.
Been saying this for yrs but media just hell bent on making a 6 time loser the goat. Sad world
The Longevity point hurts Bron because yes, he's accumulating stats but he's still isn't racking up finals wins or major accolades. What also makes the longevity argument shallow is that, yes he's still putting up numbers, that's great, but the league is made to be much easier to score. Look at steph and KD at the ages of 34/35 still putting up almost 30 per game. Barring heath is crazy not to think that at 38-40 they wouldn't still be putting up 25ppg.
4 titles 4 mvps 4 finals mvps 10 finals appearances 1 assist title and 27/7/7 in 21 years doesn't even beat out Kareem . And Jordan's resume is better in a shorter amount of time.
Facts! If we’re going to use the same metric on why Lebron is ahead of Kareem., then we have to use the same with Mj over Lebron. The gap between Lebron and Kareem is closer than the gap between Mj and Lebron.
If you can play mostly on one end of the floor, and also load manage for multiple games per season, then of course you will be able to play longer, and it diminishes whatever you are accomplishing, if you want to be honest. Otherwise, it's all narrative..again.
How don't people remember carter and Howard's greatness? We have more access to stats and vids than at any point in league history. This was all in the last 20 yrs
Longevity was never MJ's focus. He retired twice in his prime both times after threepeating. Longevity doesn't factor into the GOAT debate. A player's peak is what matters in the GOAT debate. Not how good he was or wasn't at 40 years old. Peace.
I believe longevity should play more of a factor in goat debate in football than so in basketball
The HEALTH GAME is far more superior today then yesterday. Jordan woulda played 20 yrs had they had the technology in the health field that's available today
When peopke ask, what was the greatest car or object ever made, it's normally the toughest and most reliable and not the most flashiest. It something that works well for a really long time.
longevity can work against you if you're not great over that period of time. The fact that you can be great for so long and maintain your numbers is a testimony to your greatness. One could be great in the beginning, and if they run along enough, all their numbers will fall because their greatness was only for a short time.
Longevity alone shouldn't matter! But if your great for a long time that definitely should matter
Longevity means nothing if you don't win championships in half of those years. 4 chips in almost 22 years!? I mean come on. Get the F outta here. He also refused to play elite defense throughout his tenure, it is all sizzle and no steak. Jordan embraced both ends of the court with same elite intensity.
It's that simple
4 chips with A BUNCH of context and asterisk as well.
NEEDING to join Wades team and stack it up to go 2/2 in the finals.
Kyrie going ballistic in the finals having his best season ever while the warriors lose draymond.
Then the lakers winning during a shortened covid bubble where most players didn’t even want to play. Kobe’s death just happened and the heat lost Drogic and Bam.
There’s just too much coincidences
4 chips, 4 mvps, 4 final mvps, 20 times Allstar, 3 gold Olympic metals, and rookie of the year. Every team he went on, he won a chip. He proved he could carry bums, and he proved he could carry super teams.. No sizzle no steak ? Troll a little better bro
Who wins the title half the time? Is Bill Russell your GOAT?
@@mrchef4296carried bums like Kyrie, Kevin Love, Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade, Ray Allen, Anthony Davis?
And stop the cap, he does not have 3 gold medals!! 🤣🤣
Longevity isn’t easy half of these people commenting can’t run half the distance they could 10 years ago but will tell you its easy to be great for long makes no sense
LeBron played in a horrid conference for a long time and was able to make it to 8 finals in a row because of it while being on the best team. That is a disqualifier along with the league trying to gift him a championship against the okc and the warriors in 2016. Not to mention Jordan was clearly a better player than him
In the GOAT conversation, efficiency trumps "longevity" by far, and good performance at an advanced age only matters if it translates into championships.
It amazes me yall count the 17 game season when he returned from retirement in 1995 and the 8 games he played coming back from injury lol. Like how is does that count as a season lol?
I think you can only judge GOAT is by eras. Cause the rules and athletes bodies change throughout the years.
Why people still argue who is the Goat? It’s Mike Jordan always. LeBron James played 21 years to win 4 rings. Jordan played 15 years to win 6 rings. End of discussion
Most people don’t know the longest mountain range in the world, but everyone knows the highest one. The peak is better than the longevity.