i feel like this whole thing is .. below what i would expect from wilson combat. kinda wonder what they saw in this. seems like one of those things where the engineers didnt stop think if they SHOULD.... like why wasnt the HK p7 wildly popular? ..hmmm
I don't know whether that is what Hop is talking about when he calls it overrated, but fans of the P7 say the main gimmick of the gun isn't the gas delayed system, but the half cocking mechanism. The point is that by not having to cock the striker with the trigger, you get a hammer fired style trigger out of a striker fired gun and that was what the main advantage was, especially back in the day when good triggers on striker fired guns were not just a rarity, but pretty much unheard of. It is the combination of the fixed barrel and the "assisted trigger" which makes the gun easy to shoot accurately, at least according to people like Ian Mccollum.
@@TrangleC I would use the word "Feature" instead of "gimmick", lol. Also, Ian McCollum is correct, the P7 is insanely easy to shoot fast and accurately. It also has a very long 4.2" barrel for it's OAL.
Finally, back to "Hop bought a handgun while drunk, so now to get some of the money he spent on it back he is making us and giving entertainment". One of my favorite series of the internet
I've had two, an original PSP and a P7 M8 (which I still have) I have shot the be-Jesus out of these things and can say nothing compared to it in the early '80's. Has it been surpassed, you bet but at the time, even Jeff Cooper thought highly of it. I have even shot it loaded 158 grain wadcutters and it fired all 50 rounds flawlessly. So say what you will, I won't be selling mine!
@@NewbombedTurk nah, just not going to shell out 2300 for the most dogshit trigger on a handgun I've evet felt. Seriously that squeeze cocking bullshit is just awful, but by all means continue to suck H&K off that gun was terrible.
Fun fact: The random website from the dusty corner of the Internet translates literally as "weapons catalog" in Italian. This website existed in a period in Italy were every gun in the civilian market had to get a catalog number, a part from the serial number. The number was to identify the gun and its features (manufacturer, barrel lenght, caliber, and so on) due to gun laws, which limited some firearms or features to the civilian market. So for example if you didnt know about the gun you were looking at, you could identify it by its serial number and its catalog number, written usually as "CAT:XXXXX". Nowadays this sort of national register has been dismissed, but you can still find many guns that have a catalog number written on
@@simoncleret sorry but to be honest I don't really know much about the Canadian gun laws. I can confirmed that the website was used, and still it is. As much as that people still mistakenly refer to the catalog when looking for information or stuff like that, even if it is clearly obsolete by today standards
I saw on Instagram before, someone tagged HK in a comment begging them to bring back the P7. HK didn't mince words. They said, and I quote: "No". The hipsters were devastated.
H&K hates the civilian market. Personally I would discourage people from buying H&K products for this reason. They don't want your money - they hold you in contempt. Why support a company with that attitude?
"Old west style script" is not what jumped into my mind, it looks like the script off the cover of an early 2000's gangsta rap album. Fits the gun better when you think about it like that.
Back in the early 2000's I received a Wilson Combat catalog in the mail where they featured their new ADP. From what I remember, it was Bill Wilson's attempt at bringing in a double stack, striker fired, 9mm polymer gun to compete with Glock in the Stock Service Pistol division of IDPA. Bill Wilson, Ken Hackathorn, Larry Vickers and a few others founded IDPA, as they felt USPSA has became more about equipment and the "shooting game" than it was about tactics and practical use of a firearm in self defense. IDPA has several divisions, and the big boy on the block for the SSP division was Glock (I believe it was specifically the Glock 34). The catch is for anything to be considered SSP, it needed to be mass produced (I forgot the number, but it's in the thousands). That will limit any oddball one offs, custom gunsmith specials or prototype guns. From what I remember, the ADP was discontinued by WC due to reliability issues. My swiss cheese'd brain felt like it had something to do specifically with the ejector, too. But regardless, it lived under the Wilson flag for a few years before dying. I never saw anyone use one personally, as they were still a bit more expensive than a Glock, did not provide the same front sight radius as a G34, and well... everyone at that time wanted to be Dave Sevigny.
@@kirkfreeman6913 No, gas delayed. The takedown is different, but gen 2 doesn't require a toll. I've seen reviews that were pretty favorable. Slide retraction is light. It's not made by the regular Walther factory, but by the Umarex factory; I read that Walther has its own area in their factory.
@@kirkfreeman6913 most recent rotary I know of is the PX4. Yeah. Most Walther guns are made in Ulm. The CCP is made in...what in my head is WeaponsTown Germany. Arnsberg? Something like that.
I can answer your importation question. I have been in the international importation business for 20+ years dealing with compliance issues. The simple version is that all imported good must be marked with the country of origin so that the end user/consumer knows where the product was made. Bulk goods and unfinished parts have different country of origin marking So if a frame was imported from South Africa it would need to be marked as such. The ATF would also require marking of the origin of manufacture as well as the importer’s information as you noted on your imports. I would suspect that Wilson/Heritage bought a technical package with molds and milling specs
@@Hoplopfheil probably, and as happens all to often on the internet, somebody made an overly confident guess and it got repeated enough to become a fact
Enh shooting the GB is not a great experience. It’s accurate, but not particularly soft shooting or comfortable, nor does it have a good trigger pull. It’s biggest claim to fame was the 18rnd magazine and unique gas delayed mechanism.
the GB isn't all that, my specific gripe is the the double feed mag makes the top of the grip overly wide so you get the recoil right in the base of your thumb and index finger.
@@rpblccmmndo389 yeah. Definitely makes less comfy than a pistol with a slimmer grip frame at the top. At least there isn’t a sharp protuberance there to dig into your palm (looking at you, S&W 5906).
Walther CCP and the Laugo Alien prove to me that piston-delayed pistols have potential. Also, if there was ever a rainy-day Forgotten Weapons video, .45 GAP might take the cake.
Interesting to note that the FEG APK was a copy of the FEG SAPS made in Hungary for the South African Police Service. They had a coupla thousand come directly to the USA via Plant City because they were contract over-runs. All said "Made in Hungary" with stipple engraving but the SAPS logo and Plant City import logo was laser printing. The only info about these is word-of-mouth from dealers at the time as common knowledge and never reaches the internet. It's quite possible that Wilson and Heritage were over-runs and the final engraving process for country of origin was skipped over and the earlier models were not.
Those pistols were commercial Feg AP-9 pistols with SAPS slide markings. They were in all the Gun Mags with full page advertisements being billed as “detective” pistols. My understanding is that they found their way to the U.S. because the South Africans decided for whatever reason that they didn’t want them.
I remember these from the 90's. I knew a few guys who carried them off duty as they were much cheaper than Smith 3913s and 6903s or the almost impossible to get at the time Glock 26. I ran a few magazines through one, preferred my 3913. Excellent video, keep 'em comint.
@@checkyoursixgaming looks the same, but it is a 380 with a tilting barrel rather than the gas delayed blowback of the P7, CP1, Stealth or ADP. But it's cosmetics are an absolute rip off of the CP1 - I will give it that.
@@AmmoC9M I didn't say it was the same gun. I said it looked the same. Since you were mentioning you wanted a stupid looking sci-fi gun then the spectrum looks like the CP1 to fit that bill.
@@checkyoursixgaming Yes, I'm a fanboy with no shame for the 'stupid looking sci-fi gun'. I do thank you for alerting me to the existence of the Taurus Spectrum; I wouldn't be aware of it if you hadn't mentioned it : )
I’ve been thinking for years that HK should bring back the P7, but in a polymer frame - and without the squeeze cocker. Had no idea both ADP/Wilson made these weird little guns. The wonderful thing about the P7 is its form: slim, gracefully balanced, pointable. Thank you for making this video!
I had a Heritage Stealth back in early 00's. I got rid of it after reading accounts of the firing pin working loose and ejecting rearwards. Of course, it lines up with your eye. It is secured by only a half turn of the locking mechanism.
The P7 was one of the first guns I ever shot. My Grandad had one. We looked all over for it when he passed away, but couldn’t find it. Maybe he sold it. Not sure. I want one very badly these days
My cousin bough several M13s ex law enforcement with mags marked law enforcement only for 380 each surplus he had no clue the current value, just the highest overall quality I have seen in a duty gun and low bore axis..
@@FoxtrotFleet From what I remember he was a douche that supported the NFA because it protected his dad's MG investments. Could be wrong though so take it with a grain of salt, it's been a while.
@@TheMonkeytrumpetz no, he just left because he had an interest in cars and wanted to pursue that, TFB subtracted from his ability to pursue his automotive hobby, I was just joking because his EDC was a P7 at some point
I owned a heritage as my first pistol, in 40, I got from my dad as a gift and sold it 3 months later for a Glock, that pistol had been in our family since I was probably 10, never fired because my father was so sketched by it, I never even fired it, just got rid of it the second I could. This is the first video ever I’ve seen on the shitbox, who knew someone would appreciate it.
I have seen 1. Heritage Stealth in the wild, I passed on it because it had an issue of only fireing sometimes. It was $125 bucks, I should have bought it "just because"😁
The last thing I expected today when I woke up was seeing Hop doing a video about a gun I had been planning to research on but kept forgetting about, really nice
I wonder how the ADP compares to modern single stack 9mm carry guns. Maybe there's some merit to this particular handgun (well at least the Wilson one lol)
I remember when the ADP came out, and almost purchased one, but Guns and Ammo gave it a failing review.....said it had to be cleaned religiously or the carbon buildup made it start having problems.....something not duplicated on the P-7...... therefore I passed on it..... 50 rounds would foul it up....that was not acceptable to most people, therefore it died soon after it came out.....
If Ian had access to that .45ADP round and, or the pistol, we would not have to ask him to make a video. He would swim to South Africa to make a video on it. An experimental round for a prototype gun that never sold makes him foam at the mouth with excitement.
I had one of these way back in the mid 90s! It was my first off duty pistol. But it was chambered in .40cal. It was heavy, clunky, and had huge recoil. But I still loved that thing. I regret selling it. If I ever find another one Im going to buy it. Thanks for the video. It was a blast of the past!
Love your content Hop. Alex used to own my local gun shop where I grew up and we used to shoot together. Did you know he won gold in the team category in IPSC 1977? He went over to work at Wilson in the early 2000 but you are probably right with the frames being made here. He did the same with the 45 KZ frame. I bought one over here before Wilson even had a model out. I have a thing for delayed blowback and have a P7, GB, CP1 and ADP. The Norinco and Walther are on the watch list.
I like the mystique around this discussion more than I like the Heritage Stealth, though the Winson Combat is interesting. And I like Glock off's in general as I have the Taurus G3C and two S&W SD pistols
I love the little "please do not do that" at the end as if that will make any difference at all. You've met the internet, right? Mr McCollum will be getting spam about this for a good week.
Another great video in a pistol I have been curious about for a fee years. Never even knew about the Wilson Combat version. And yes, Ian should definitely go back to South Africa and dig a little deeper on this gun. Maybe I have bad taste in guns but I loved the semi only subguns he showed while in SA. I dig tube guns and guns that look like they were made in a muffler shop by Aussie biker gangs. Anyway, keep up the good work.
I was issued the P7 while I was in JSOC and really liked it. The exchange rates kept me from ever owning one. For another gas-delayed blowback there is the Walther CCP.
Just came to your video and channel. Nice vid bro. The Africans also make another of my favorites. The Vektor CP1. 😎. Love mine you can still get them. 2000 made. I have the 45 Equinox too. Looks similar to some other guns on the market too. The break down is similar to the Vektor CP1 and the Lorcin 25 acp.
The frames could have been imported at 80 percent to finish out the guns. All import firearms since 1968 require import marks. But some American companies hide the import marks. Springfield armory had the made in Brazil on the inside of the dust cover on their 1911 frames for years.
The main engineering advantage for the P7 is the squeeze coming mechanism. Squeezing the grip operates a cam that clocks the firing pin, so the trigger is much lighter and ready to fire. So putting the pistol down releases the firing pin to safe. Throwing the pistol releases the grip and goes back to safe. Squeezing the grip takes 12 pounds. About the same as to properly holding the pistol. Keeping the grip squeezed is only about 2 pounds. The barrel is fixed, so accuracy is enhanced with no tilting barrel. The polygonal rifling reduces barrel wear, seals the gas pressure better, producing high velocities, and easier to clean as there are bo lands and grooves to hide lead residue. These guns have no relationship to the P7. Zero engineering and no design enhancement.
I used to own a Heritage Stealth (until it got stolen). I made the mistake of buying the .40s&w version, whose magazine was NOT made by MecGar. The magazines were defective, I had to have them replaced by two newer generations before they worked; by that time the pistol was discontinued. (The plastic of the magazine baseplate was inadequate; until the final magazine versions, loaded magazines would eventually spontaneously dissemble themselves.) Other than that, it was a pretty accurate gun. And, with the last set of magazines, pretty reliable. I didn't like the non-positive safety, but in practice it worked. The trigger gave a very nice surprise break -- like the very best double-action revolver trigger you could imagine. I found assembly and disassembly to be much easier than with more conventional pistols (though I had an H&K P7 M13 to learn on). About the H&K P7 -- I think the squeeze-cocking idea would be very good for safety with appendix carry. But it would need to be more rust-resistant, and incorporate more polymer to reduce weight.
Series 70 1911s from Springfield Armory in the 80s were from Brazil, but that's not marked anywhere on the guns. There is likely some loophole for how much of the gun is assembled/manufactured in which country.
The shortened .45 cartridge you reference. Is known as the .45 Italian, a little known cartridge only used in Italy. Because of their gun and ammo laws, it's not legal for civilians to use guns chambered for standard military ammo. It's shorter than the the .45 GAP. It's such a obscure and little know/used cartridge outside of Italy, that to make a pistol chambered for it. Makes me think that the Stealth has some basic connection to Italy.
I had the ADP around 2005/2006 and assembling the slide was a pain in my ass. I had a bunch of jams. Got rid of it a while ago. I liked the size of it though.
I almost bought one of these when I lived in SA. They sold for around ZAR1500 back then. The ADPs worked, the Vektors didn’t. I met Alex once- he was working on a polymer frame for the BHP- that never went past the prototype stage.
I wanted an inexpensive, thin, 9mm, single stack, light weight but highly accurate pistol that could easily fit shoulder, back or belt. As a qualified Army expert of 1965, the Heritage Stealth C1000 more than filled the bill as a concealed carry. It is certainly not perfect for 99% of shooters but I was not trained to evaluate pistol videos, I was trained for disabling an enemy. The Stealth works well in the context for which I was trained and the use intended. 3/3 ACR.
Oh jesus this is the pistol my dad had a long time ago. I've been searching for years on what it could be, all I remembered is that it had Stealth written all fancy on the slide. What a hot piece of garbage that thing was. It shot 3 feet left of where you were aiming at 7 yards.
My 80’s (PSP) P7, which I first shot around 1984 but bought from that owner years later, is a niche gun with a quirky manual of arms, but of very high quality. It is pleasant to shoot, and I don’t put out a high enough volume of fire to overheat the dust cover. Perceived recoil is very mild (the day I first shot it, I also shot a Detonics Pocket Nine - huge contrast favoring the P7), but I don’t know how much of that is due to the gas delayed action and how much due to the low bore line. Once, swapping between some mild 9mm and some +P+ Hirtenberger, I got the impression the +P+ made more noise but recoil was unchanged. Was that due to the gas delayed action? Or was it because I’m a .45 shooter and consider 9mm recoil mild? I’ll keep an open mind and just note that the gas delayed blowback design interests me.🙄
funny it has south africa heritage because the lines immediately reminded of that south african pistol that came with a safe that forgotten weapons covered awhile ago. muskgrave?
Another fun(ish) gas delayed blowback gun is the Norinco NP77b, which also curiously features einhander style controls. Not a good gun, mind you, just an interesting one.
As I understand it--and only regarding usa law-- country of origin requirements are specific to the serialized firearm part and only if it is a finished product. From what I have heard, all Springfield Armory 1911's are 100% Brazilian forgings and are either somewhat or mostly finished in Brazil, then assembled here. Some marked made in brazil, some are not - I think that has to do with the amount of finish work done to the receiver/frame.
Maybe some day I'll find that somebody completed the .40S&W hydrocephalus with the SD threaded barrel - the very reason for that weird shape...In early '90s standard .40S&W was subsonic, 10.24g @ 300-320m/s
i feel like this whole thing is .. below what i would expect from wilson combat. kinda wonder what they saw in this. seems like one of those things where the engineers didnt stop think if they SHOULD.... like why wasnt the HK p7 wildly popular? ..hmmm
Rumor has it that Bill Wilson was friends with Alex Du Plessis and that might be why they went for it.
@@Hoplopfheil also hans used one in die hard.
The P7 was wildly popular considering it's price tag. WILDLY popular.
I don't know whether that is what Hop is talking about when he calls it overrated, but fans of the P7 say the main gimmick of the gun isn't the gas delayed system, but the half cocking mechanism. The point is that by not having to cock the striker with the trigger, you get a hammer fired style trigger out of a striker fired gun and that was what the main advantage was, especially back in the day when good triggers on striker fired guns were not just a rarity, but pretty much unheard of.
It is the combination of the fixed barrel and the "assisted trigger" which makes the gun easy to shoot accurately, at least according to people like Ian Mccollum.
@@TrangleC I would use the word "Feature" instead of "gimmick", lol. Also, Ian McCollum is correct, the P7 is insanely easy to shoot fast and accurately. It also has a very long 4.2" barrel for it's OAL.
Finally, back to "Hop bought a handgun while drunk, so now to get some of the money he spent on it back he is making us and giving entertainment". One of my favorite series of the internet
Hop: *laughs in demonization*
Polish that turd.
"You will absolutely enjoy shooting a P7 more than the Stealth"
Given how little I enjoyed shooting a P7, that does not bode well.
I handled a P7 once at a gun show, never had a desire to buy one afterwards.
I've had two, an original PSP and a P7 M8 (which I still have) I have shot the be-Jesus out of these things and can say nothing compared to it in the early '80's. Has it been surpassed, you bet but at the time, even Jeff Cooper thought highly of it. I have even shot it loaded 158 grain wadcutters and it fired all 50 rounds flawlessly. So say what you will, I won't be selling mine!
@@KamikazKid or you’re just poor and can’t afford one
@@NewbombedTurk nah, just not going to shell out 2300 for the most dogshit trigger on a handgun I've evet felt. Seriously that squeeze cocking bullshit is just awful, but by all means continue to suck H&K off that gun was terrible.
Still kicking myself for not buying a brand new P7 back in the '80s.
Meanwhile, Ian is confused at the sudden influx of requests for some obscure 90s handgun from South Africa.
Haha! I bet you're right
Give him actually something to do instead of shilling really bad Smart guns or other bad guns.
@@Blackbomber200 lol
@@Blackbomber200why, they are cool as fuck. It's forgotten weapons, not "the shit I specifically want and nothing else"
It's funny because Ian did a video on the Temu version of the Steyr GB that was made (poorly) under no license in the USA.
Fun fact: The random website from the dusty corner of the Internet translates literally as "weapons catalog" in Italian. This website existed in a period in Italy were every gun in the civilian market had to get a catalog number, a part from the serial number. The number was to identify the gun and its features (manufacturer, barrel lenght, caliber, and so on) due to gun laws, which limited some firearms or features to the civilian market. So for example if you didnt know about the gun you were looking at, you could identify it by its serial number and its catalog number, written usually as "CAT:XXXXX".
Nowadays this sort of national register has been dismissed, but you can still find many guns that have a catalog number written on
So like the Firearms Reference Table or F(a)RT in Canada, except people actually used it?
@@simoncleret sorry but to be honest I don't really know much about the Canadian gun laws. I can confirmed that the website was used, and still it is. As much as that people still mistakenly refer to the catalog when looking for information or stuff like that, even if it is clearly obsolete by today standards
I've noticed this on the websites of some reproduction companies like pedersoli and possibly uberti and pietta.
so thats why my pardini says Cat. 6969 on the side of it
@@gundamned4879 nice
I saw on Instagram before, someone tagged HK in a comment begging them to bring back the P7. HK didn't mince words. They said, and I quote: "No". The hipsters were devastated.
H&K hates the civilian market. Personally I would discourage people from buying H&K products for this reason. They don't want your money - they hold you in contempt. Why support a company with that attitude?
Hops cheap handgun overviews are the best gun videos on the internet 100%
"Old west style script" is not what jumped into my mind, it looks like the script off the cover of an early 2000's gangsta rap album. Fits the gun better when you think about it like that.
Bone Thugs 'n' Heritage
Back in the early 2000's I received a Wilson Combat catalog in the mail where they featured their new ADP. From what I remember, it was Bill Wilson's attempt at bringing in a double stack, striker fired, 9mm polymer gun to compete with Glock in the Stock Service Pistol division of IDPA. Bill Wilson, Ken Hackathorn, Larry Vickers and a few others founded IDPA, as they felt USPSA has became more about equipment and the "shooting game" than it was about tactics and practical use of a firearm in self defense. IDPA has several divisions, and the big boy on the block for the SSP division was Glock (I believe it was specifically the Glock 34). The catch is for anything to be considered SSP, it needed to be mass produced (I forgot the number, but it's in the thousands). That will limit any oddball one offs, custom gunsmith specials or prototype guns. From what I remember, the ADP was discontinued by WC due to reliability issues. My swiss cheese'd brain felt like it had something to do specifically with the ejector, too. But regardless, it lived under the Wilson flag for a few years before dying. I never saw anyone use one personally, as they were still a bit more expensive than a Glock, did not provide the same front sight radius as a G34, and well... everyone at that time wanted to be Dave Sevigny.
I wanted to be a train.
If you want a semi-modern pistol the Walther CCP runs the same piston system.
I thought Walther CCP was rotary??
***runs to Google***
Far too expensive for him
@@kirkfreeman6913 gas delayed piston, gets hot AF after like 50 rounds of shooting,
@@kirkfreeman6913
No, gas delayed. The takedown is different, but gen 2 doesn't require a toll. I've seen reviews that were pretty favorable. Slide retraction is light. It's not made by the regular Walther factory, but by the Umarex factory; I read that Walther has its own area in their factory.
@@kirkfreeman6913 most recent rotary I know of is the PX4.
Yeah. Most Walther guns are made in Ulm. The CCP is made in...what in my head is WeaponsTown Germany. Arnsberg? Something like that.
"Gotta protect the money maker" that gun doesn't threaten your feet in the slightest
I can answer your importation question. I have been in the international importation business for 20+ years dealing with compliance issues. The simple version is that all imported good must be marked with the country of origin so that the end user/consumer knows where the product was made. Bulk goods and unfinished parts have different country of origin marking So if a frame was imported from South Africa it would need to be marked as such. The ATF would also require marking of the origin of manufacture as well as the importer’s information as you noted on your imports. I would suspect that Wilson/Heritage bought a technical package with molds and milling specs
Good info. I wonder why the extant sources about these guns seem to think they were imported...
@@Hoplopfheil probably, and as happens all to often on the internet, somebody made an overly confident guess and it got repeated enough to become a fact
@@Hoplopfheil don't know for sure but ill bet assumptions were made without having actually gotten primary sources.
I'm always jealous of Paul Harrell's Steyr GB when he brings it out. Can't really say the same about most of Hop's hipster guns.
Resident Evil 2 Leon storyline nostalgia.
Enh shooting the GB is not a great experience. It’s accurate, but not particularly soft shooting or comfortable, nor does it have a good trigger pull. It’s biggest claim to fame was the 18rnd magazine and unique gas delayed mechanism.
Still way better than shooting the HK VP70. What an underwhelming piece that thing is.
the GB isn't all that, my specific gripe is the the double feed mag makes the top of the grip overly wide so you get the recoil right in the base of your thumb and index finger.
@@rpblccmmndo389 yeah. Definitely makes less comfy than a pistol with a slimmer grip frame at the top. At least there isn’t a sharp protuberance there to dig into your palm (looking at you, S&W 5906).
Walther CCP and the Laugo Alien prove to me that piston-delayed pistols have potential. Also, if there was ever a rainy-day Forgotten Weapons video, .45 GAP might take the cake.
The laugo alien proves that a handgun that weighs more than 2lbs is a soft shooter
@@Hoplopfheil You're just a cynic... how dare you brings physics and facts into it
@@Hoplopfheil Heard those with "meaty paws" were getting slide bite from the Alien. Can't imagine buying it and finding out that it makes you bleed.
Someone finally mentioned the walther. Confused why it was missing from this video
@@flopus7 I mentioned the Walther in a reply 3 months ago.
Interesting to note that the FEG APK was a copy of the FEG SAPS made in Hungary for the South African Police Service. They had a coupla thousand come directly to the USA via Plant City because they were contract over-runs. All said "Made in Hungary" with stipple engraving but the SAPS logo and Plant City import logo was laser printing. The only info about these is word-of-mouth from dealers at the time as common knowledge and never reaches the internet. It's quite possible that Wilson and Heritage were over-runs and the final engraving process for country of origin was skipped over and the earlier models were not.
Whatever, FEG
God i love FÉG
Those pistols were commercial Feg AP-9 pistols with SAPS slide markings. They were in all the Gun Mags with full page advertisements being billed as “detective” pistols. My understanding is that they found their way to the U.S. because the South Africans decided for whatever reason that they didn’t want them.
Those are nice hideouts but htf.
"At least they didn't use Comic Sans" That took me so off guard, thank you for the belly laugh.
I remember these from the 90's. I knew a few guys who carried them off duty as they were much cheaper than Smith 3913s and 6903s or the almost impossible to get at the time Glock 26. I ran a few magazines through one, preferred my 3913. Excellent video, keep 'em comint.
I remember seeing the Vektor in gun mags. They always looked both awesome scfi and totally stupid at the same time.
scifi IS stupid
Can always just buy a Taurus Spectrum as it looks almost the same.
@@checkyoursixgaming looks the same, but it is a 380 with a tilting barrel rather than the gas delayed blowback of the P7, CP1, Stealth or ADP. But it's cosmetics are an absolute rip off of the CP1 - I will give it that.
@@AmmoC9M I didn't say it was the same gun. I said it looked the same. Since you were mentioning you wanted a stupid looking sci-fi gun then the spectrum looks like the CP1 to fit that bill.
@@checkyoursixgaming Yes, I'm a fanboy with no shame for the 'stupid looking sci-fi gun'. I do thank you for alerting me to the existence of the Taurus Spectrum; I wouldn't be aware of it if you hadn't mentioned it : )
I’ve been thinking for years that HK should bring back the P7, but in a polymer frame - and without the squeeze cocker. Had no idea both ADP/Wilson made these weird little guns. The wonderful thing about the P7 is its form: slim, gracefully balanced, pointable. Thank you for making this video!
You can’t talk about a South African handgun from the early 90s without me hearing the phrase “Diplomatic immunity” in my head
"...has just been revoked."
I had a Heritage Stealth back in early 00's. I got rid of it after reading accounts of the firing pin working loose and ejecting rearwards. Of course, it lines up with your eye. It is secured by only a half turn of the locking mechanism.
I have a P7, it is my grail gun. I was lucky to have purchased it about 13 years ago before the prices went insane. Love shooting it.
The PSP's were dirt cheap when they came into the country but even those are a couple grand now. I wish I had bought about 10 of them.
The P7 was one of the first guns I ever shot. My Grandad had one. We looked all over for it when he passed away, but couldn’t find it. Maybe he sold it. Not sure. I want one very badly these days
My cousin bough several M13s ex law enforcement with mags marked law enforcement only for 380 each surplus he had no clue the current value, just the highest overall quality I have seen in a duty gun and low bore axis..
Nice to see you return to obscure old pistol reviews...and completely stumping me with something I've never heard of before.
If the gundies had a best eyebrow category I’d vote Hop two bazillion times 👊🏼
They have a hard time hiding behind the charlie Sheen sunglasses.
This needed more “Firefly” clips. Shiny!
There's a Firestar in that show too
Finally a video about a weird defunct handgun. True return to form. I will happily give all my reddit gold for more.
"reddit gold" fuck off dork
I’ve always wanted a P7 but could never afford it, I guess this is the next best thing
Alex C must be seething right now
Out of curiousity, why would he be? I wasn't around for whatever drama happened.
@@FoxtrotFleet From what I remember he was a douche that supported the NFA because it protected his dad's MG investments. Could be wrong though so take it with a grain of salt, it's been a while.
See GBGuns post.
@@TheMonkeytrumpetz no, he just left because he had an interest in cars and wanted to pursue that, TFB subtracted from his ability to pursue his automotive hobby, I was just joking because his EDC was a P7 at some point
I was looking for this comment about Alex C. 😆
It looks like what would happen if Hi-Point made a slimmer gun but kept the same aesthetics
I have an HK P7M8 that I bought in 1992 which I still have. Once you figure out the manual of arms it’s actually an amazing pistol.
Forgotten Weapons Millennials…. Content I didn’t know I needed but I’m glad I’m here for it.
Looks like how people draw handguns from memory
Lol idk Kermit, it's better than mine And after watching this video I kinda want one now. Looks like one u can find in the last of us
lol
It's like every anti gunners rendition of a handgun
Love that dollar store, toy gun, waffle texture on the grips. Lol
Kinda has the whole 'boogers in the grooves of 70's corduroy pants' vibe to it!
I owned a heritage as my first pistol, in 40, I got from my dad as a gift and sold it 3 months later for a Glock, that pistol had been in our family since I was probably 10, never fired because my father was so sketched by it, I never even fired it, just got rid of it the second I could. This is the first video ever I’ve seen on the shitbox, who knew someone would appreciate it.
I have seen 1. Heritage Stealth in the wild, I passed on it because it had an issue of only fireing sometimes. It was $125 bucks, I should have bought it "just because"😁
Hop...the Ian McCullom we have at home.
i used beretta 92 style mags in my one. alex did pass away, i did talk with him for a article on the orig adp way back then.
WOW, I really enjoyed the education of these Firearms, their history and how they operate!!! Thank you!!😃👍👊🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Another Gas Delayed Blow Back Pistol to consider is the Walther CCP M2, available in 9x19mm and .380 ACP.
The last thing I expected today when I woke up was seeing Hop doing a video about a gun I had been planning to research on but kept forgetting about, really nice
Someone just decided “WHY NOT?!?” on this one. Not gonna lie though…I want one lol
These are my favorite hop vids, history on somthing weird
I wonder how the ADP compares to modern single stack 9mm carry guns. Maybe there's some merit to this particular handgun (well at least the Wilson one lol)
I remember when the ADP came out, and almost purchased one, but Guns and Ammo gave it a failing review.....said it had to be cleaned religiously or the carbon buildup made it start having problems.....something not duplicated on the P-7...... therefore I passed on it..... 50 rounds would foul it up....that was not acceptable to most people, therefore it died soon after it came out.....
I went through a police academy back in 1992 and qualified with a P7M8. I loved that thing.
I still have Vektor cp1 that i bought back in 2001. it doesn't have best trigger but I love that gun. it's accurate and handles nicely to me.
It looks like a miniature Hi-point
It kinda is, look at a Lorcin. That's the OG yeet cannon.
"It's a really nice pistol, but it's over-rated."
That, ladies and gentlemen, is not easy to do. lol
Man i love quirky guns like this. Youre the best reviewer of them.
Lol, that opening was great, I tried to explain that operation to some people and you are right..
If Ian had access to that .45ADP round and, or the pistol, we would not have to ask him to make a video. He would swim to South Africa to make a video on it. An experimental round for a prototype gun that never sold makes him foam at the mouth with excitement.
HeHeHe😂😂 Loved this, you do a brilliant job entertaining folks on this & damn you did a lot of research. Thanks Buddy
You can tell it’s an ADP from the way that is. Hope that helps. ❤️
I had one of these way back in the mid 90s! It was my first off duty pistol. But it was chambered in .40cal. It was heavy, clunky, and had huge recoil. But I still loved that thing. I regret selling it. If I ever find another one Im going to buy it. Thanks for the video. It was a blast of the past!
Love your content Hop. Alex used to own my local gun shop where I grew up and we used to shoot together. Did you know he won gold in the team category in IPSC 1977? He went over to work at Wilson in the early 2000 but you are probably right with the frames being made here. He did the same with the 45 KZ frame. I bought one over here before Wilson even had a model out. I have a thing for delayed blowback and have a P7, GB, CP1 and ADP. The Norinco and Walther are on the watch list.
I like the mystique around this discussion more than I like the Heritage Stealth, though the Winson Combat is interesting. And I like Glock off's in general as I have the Taurus G3C and two S&W SD pistols
WHY DO YOU NOT HAVE MORE SUBSCRIBERS??? Awesome content and production. Keep it up!
A South African once told me, South Africans are basically Dutch Floridians. So I guess they didn’t stray too far from their root😂
I love the little "please do not do that" at the end as if that will make any difference at all. You've met the internet, right? Mr McCollum will be getting spam about this for a good week.
TY! Enjoyed vid/your comments!
I’ll ask Ian on Friday night at midnight Brutality, which I can’t believe you’re not doing!
Another great video in a pistol I have been curious about for a fee years. Never even knew about the Wilson Combat version. And yes, Ian should definitely go back to South Africa and dig a little deeper on this gun. Maybe I have bad taste in guns but I loved the semi only subguns he showed while in SA. I dig tube guns and guns that look like they were made in a muffler shop by Aussie biker gangs.
Anyway, keep up the good work.
I was issued the P7 while I was in JSOC and really liked it. The exchange rates kept me from ever owning one.
For another gas-delayed blowback there is the Walther CCP.
Whats JSOC
@@Kai-ky6tf ask google
@@Kai-ky6tf Google Joint Special Operations Command. I was a young Marine back then (81-83)
I didn't know there were Marines in JSOC back then.
@@davem2369 We had people from all four Services. I wasn't quite a plank holder but was there for the 1st Anniversary of the unit being stood up.
Just came to your video and channel. Nice vid bro. The Africans also make another of my favorites. The Vektor CP1. 😎. Love mine you can still get them. 2000 made. I have the 45 Equinox too. Looks similar to some other guns on the market too. The break down is similar to the Vektor CP1 and the Lorcin 25 acp.
Purchase a P7 back in the eights. Still have it.
The frames could have been imported at 80 percent to finish out the guns. All import firearms since 1968 require import marks. But some American companies hide the import marks.
Springfield armory had the made in Brazil on the inside of the dust cover on their 1911 frames for years.
The main engineering advantage for the P7 is the squeeze coming mechanism. Squeezing the grip operates a cam that clocks the firing pin, so the trigger is much lighter and ready to fire. So putting the pistol down releases the firing pin to safe. Throwing the pistol releases the grip and goes back to safe. Squeezing the grip takes 12 pounds. About the same as to properly holding the pistol. Keeping the grip squeezed is only about 2 pounds.
The barrel is fixed, so accuracy is enhanced with no tilting barrel. The polygonal rifling reduces barrel wear, seals the gas pressure better, producing high velocities, and easier to clean as there are bo lands and grooves to hide lead residue.
These guns have no relationship to the P7. Zero engineering and no design enhancement.
Commenting for the Men in Black reference. This is the kind of artistic script choice that my generation can appreciate.
Well the title certainly grabbed my attention.
“Men-in-blacking” made me laugh way too hard
The silver flats make it look like a high point. Nice.
What makes the P7 special is the squeeze cocker, not the operating mechanism.
I used to own a Heritage Stealth (until it got stolen). I made the mistake of buying the .40s&w version, whose magazine was NOT made by MecGar. The magazines were defective, I had to have them replaced by two newer generations before they worked; by that time the pistol was discontinued. (The plastic of the magazine baseplate was inadequate; until the final magazine versions, loaded magazines would eventually spontaneously dissemble themselves.)
Other than that, it was a pretty accurate gun. And, with the last set of magazines, pretty reliable. I didn't like the non-positive safety, but in practice it worked. The trigger gave a very nice surprise break -- like the very best double-action revolver trigger you could imagine. I found assembly and disassembly to be much easier than with more conventional pistols (though I had an H&K P7 M13 to learn on).
About the H&K P7 -- I think the squeeze-cocking idea would be very good for safety with appendix carry. But it would need to be more rust-resistant, and incorporate more polymer to reduce weight.
Gotta love looking up ancient forum posts for ANYTHING on a handgun or rifle.
If you're hitting the old forums about anything you best grab your fins, it's gonna be a deep dive.
Series 70 1911s from Springfield Armory in the 80s were from Brazil, but that's not marked anywhere on the guns. There is likely some loophole for how much of the gun is assembled/manufactured in which country.
The shortened .45 cartridge you reference. Is known as the .45 Italian, a little known cartridge only used in Italy. Because of their gun and ammo laws, it's not legal for civilians to use guns chambered for standard military ammo.
It's shorter than the the .45 GAP. It's such a obscure and little know/used cartridge outside of Italy, that to make a pistol chambered for it. Makes me think that the Stealth has some basic connection to Italy.
I had the ADP around 2005/2006 and assembling the slide was a pain in my ass. I had a bunch of jams. Got rid of it a while ago. I liked the size of it though.
Steyr M9-A2 the modern contrarian handgun. “It’s pretty obscure in OD, you probably haven’t heard of it.”
Maybe they just dropped onto the market from a parallel dimension. ..
I have a buddy that is from SA.
He did videos with Ian.
I will go talk to him this week & see what he knows about these.
I almost bought one of these when I lived in SA. They sold for around ZAR1500 back then. The ADPs worked, the Vektors didn’t. I met Alex once- he was working on a polymer frame for the BHP- that never went past the prototype stage.
@@nellinecronje6911 I know those Vektors are crap, but they look just odd enough for me to want one.
Noice. I've wanted the Walther CCP M2, for some time now. Thanks for the share!!
I wanted an inexpensive, thin, 9mm, single stack, light weight but highly accurate pistol that could easily fit shoulder, back or belt. As a qualified Army expert of 1965, the Heritage Stealth C1000 more than filled the bill as a concealed carry. It is certainly not perfect for 99% of shooters but I was not trained to evaluate pistol videos, I was trained for disabling an enemy. The Stealth works well in the context for which I was trained and the use intended. 3/3 ACR.
Oh jesus this is the pistol my dad had a long time ago. I've been searching for years on what it could be, all I remembered is that it had Stealth written all fancy on the slide. What a hot piece of garbage that thing was. It shot 3 feet left of where you were aiming at 7 yards.
Looks like what hipoint wanted but couldn't afford the tooling for.
My 80’s (PSP) P7, which I first shot around 1984 but bought from that owner years later, is a niche gun with a quirky manual of arms, but of very high quality. It is pleasant to shoot, and I don’t put out a high enough volume of fire to overheat the dust cover. Perceived recoil is very mild (the day I first shot it, I also shot a Detonics Pocket Nine - huge contrast favoring the P7), but I don’t know how much of that is due to the gas delayed action and how much due to the low bore line. Once, swapping between some mild 9mm and some +P+ Hirtenberger, I got the impression the +P+ made more noise but recoil was unchanged. Was that due to the gas delayed action? Or was it because I’m a .45 shooter and consider 9mm recoil mild? I’ll keep an open mind and just note that the gas delayed blowback design interests me.🙄
Bonus points for the Firefly clip.
funny it has south africa heritage because the lines immediately reminded of that south african pistol that came with a safe that forgotten weapons covered awhile ago. muskgrave?
I heard hop say south african and everything made sense, i love south african gun design; they look so interesting and kinda pretty.
so the Trigger on the OG is probably the real money maker since it's likely really luxurious to have a safe system with a true SA feel?
Quality schmality, gun go boom every time gun is maximize quality
Walther CCP m2 uses the same gas system. Sweet shooting, easy to cock, single stack 9. My 70 year old mom has one and loves it.
Another fun(ish) gas delayed blowback gun is the Norinco NP77b, which also curiously features einhander style controls. Not a good gun, mind you, just an interesting one.
As I understand it--and only regarding usa law-- country of origin requirements are specific to the serialized firearm part and only if it is a finished product. From what I have heard, all Springfield Armory 1911's are 100% Brazilian forgings and are either somewhat or mostly finished in Brazil, then assembled here. Some marked made in brazil, some are not - I think that has to do with the amount of finish work done to the receiver/frame.
GTA IV called, they want their pistol back 😂 👏🤟
Sionyx, PVS-14, Steiner, what? We're home, pistolbros.
I see your gunbroker story is the same as my CZ100 story.
I can see KelTec making a new version of the P7
Maybe some day I'll find that somebody completed the .40S&W hydrocephalus with the SD threaded barrel - the very reason for that weird shape...In early '90s standard .40S&W was subsonic, 10.24g @ 300-320m/s
"ask ian. haha just kidding. unless..."
Dude Florida man is a busy guy.
Personally attacked in the first 10 seconds of the video. Love it😂
I've got a CCP in 380 and it shoots well. Much more pleasant than my Bersa. But that should go without saying.
Time to buy a Walther CCP and let us know if the gas delay idea is really worth it or not.
Current pricing at the big local show was $4,995. Appreciate that one!
🦓💚