i still hope OP divorce that man, he only reacting when his manliness being insult, not when his children being treated bad by his own mother. He doesn't deserve OP and the children
I just hope he's one of those people who never learned how to set boundaries and how to be assertive, and that hearing it from his brother shook some sense into him. I hope so for the chance of the kids. I hope that dad grows a back bone from this and learns to protect those kids above all else.
Some people need a really loud wake up call to actually change gears and some people fall back into the same old habits but just hide it better. In this case I'm in favor of giving the husband a second chance but I'd talk to my kids and instill in them, that they don't need to take insults and that they tell me, whenever something is making them unhappy. Husband definitely needs to rebuild some trust.
The older brother is obviously also a POS but it was satisfying to have someone be able to properly humiliate that spineless husband. I hope he's able to take a solid look at himself and do better, but the fact that he's still going to see mommy on his own after what she said doesn't promote optimism. Additionally, how is it possible to even feel love for your partner again after this type of situation? That he allowed his mommy to treat their children like shit, refused to take his wife and children’s concerns seriously, and only took action once his own pride was at stake. The relationship sounds doomed and just a matter of time before divorce.
The thing is, the idiot doesn't seem to realize that his kids know that he doesn't value them due to his actions and will resent and maybe even hate him for it and once that hate happens, it's permanent. They may eventually forgive after years wasted, but they will never forget. That deep emotional scar stays.
I know. So, the whole family has no respect for OP's husband so that is why they all tolerated his parents treating his children like trash. OMG, I would go no contact with the lot of them. OP's husband still willing to have contact with his family would be enough to make me toss him out. He doesn't get that his parents abusing his kids is a way of abusing him. Just crazy.
to the commenter who said "seems if she hated them she'd welcome you saying she doesn't ever have to see them again" see, but that would take away her fun. these are her play things, whose pain she enjoys. how dare OP deprive her of her victims. that's how abusers think
Yeah, like if there was a test strip for “knows nothing about narcissistic family dynamics” - that would have been that message. It seems logical that “you hate someone, you don’t want to see them. Period” but for narc it’s as if you take away their favorite mistreated toy. It might miss the eyes, be all covered in markers and holes from matches, but it’s “so fun to see how far you can push them till they break” We - victims of narcissistic abuse - help them with their emotions. We are exhaust pipe for them; to remove pressure and dark thoughts. We are “here” to make them pleasant for others. And others aren’t dumb: they see how we are being treated. They just don’t want it for themselves
@@maranathaschraag5757 100% that. My grandmother is the same, I spent one night at my mom's house, specially after something she did? Cries and makes herself the victim and whines to my mom asking when I'm coming back, just to ignore me when I do come back and days after she tries to pick a petty fight with me again just so she can make my life hell. For context, yes I live with my grandmother and yes she is a fucking nightmare, but I live here cause it's cheaper and I have space unlike my mom's house
OP’s husband only cared when it insulted himself. He doesn’t care about his family, just his ego. I hope OP addresses this because that selfishness will affect them in other ways.
@lmbm8598 ......Or protecting his wife and children makes him a self-respecting man. It's true. Don't protect your wife and children because your wife nagged you to do it. Do it for self-respect. Because you love them and believe they should be treated well.
“His mother is very willing to apologize and talk and she says that she loves our children very much.” Translation: You are threatening to take away my victims, I will do everything in my power to maintain access to them so I can keep hurting them.
Sounds like my grandmother. She hated my mom, so we were the "lesser" grandkids and we caught on by the time we hit middle school. Haven't seen that old hag in probably a decade by now, I think
I hope the story 1’s husband realizes that he is failing all his duties as a father and partner for not protecting his family. This also shows how he himself isn’t viewed highly by the family since they are more okay with his kids taking this then theirs
I think his brother calling him what he is at that dinner was something he needed to hear to wake him up to what he would be losing because he was trying to defend his sperm donor and egg donor over hims wife and children. because those two grandparents are not parents but cheap evil clowns
Story 1: people really need to start choosing violence and chaos, when they go low, you yo to hell. Spread that chat everywhere and tell mil to pull up if she feel a type of way
Story 1: Having your own brother call you a "pussy" for not being man enough to stand up to your parents and draw a line in the sand, hearing your children and wife make their stance clear they cannot forgive and forget...and husband is still talking about visiting the in-laws? I'm not one who says divorce but I think they should separate first and have him do a ton of therapy to figure out what self-esteem/dependant/attachment issues he has going on there first before the marriage continuation talks can be done because he is far away from being a good husband or father due to the immense lack of protective instinct to keep his kids and wife safe. Those statements are unforgivable cut contact immediately type for anyone who is sane enough to be a good husband and father and he is clearly not ready. It doesn't matter if, in the moments of calm, he does his duties well; if he can't do what a good husband/father would do when it counts, then re-evaluation needs to take place.
"Having your own brother call you a "pussy" for not being man enough to stand up to your parents and draw a line in the sand" this says so much about their family dynamics, mum's a narc and I'm guessing Hubby's the scapegoat but now it extends to his kids and he's just okay with it.
@@robinkholmes7127 yup because it says alot that the brother's defense wasn't that his mother wasn't capable of doing that to his children, he was able to respond to op's question because he knew she was capable of it but that his mother knows if she tried, it would end badly for her and the only reason she does it to op's kids is that she knows she can get away with it. I honestly think that moment should have been a wake up call for op to initiate separation and demand individual therapy for husband because they literally told her to her face, the only reason this thing started and continues is because her huzzy has allowed it to and it honestly seems like the only reason huzzy has "okayed" the kids not visiting them anymore is because a family member pointed out that he should have actually done something a very long time ago.
Story 1: The husband's brother might be a tool, but he summed up the problem and answer really well. The husband needed to figure out where his balls were, reattach them, and protect his kids from his out-of-pocket mom.
the thing is, that comment sums up the husband's place in the family. He is the family punching bag, and his mother has moved on to abusing his kids as a way of abusing him. He was so used to the abuse (I am not, in any way, shape, or form, defending him) that he could not recognize his mother was abusing his children. The fact that he is choosing to still be a punching bag for his family is what would have sent me over the edge. OP needs to walk away from that shit show and protect her children. Her husband is never going to change. He gets some sort of satisfaction from being the family punching bag.
Yes. They soak up everything like sponges. They have to as they're blank slates. Everything they know they get from those around them which is why we have to be careful who is around them, what's said and done and make sure we practice what we preach. It's baffling that most people don't seem to understand that and get mad at kids for mimicking their behavior.
@skybluepainter Are you one of those who didn’t read the comment clearly and failed to see that the comment was talking about a woman, not a man? The commenter was talking about Story 1 (posted by a woman), not 2 (posted by a man).
Op said parental alienation and bullying is a big thing where she lives, so she should have her lawyer all set to file for divorce along with a restraining order against the MIL. There is nothing to work on in this marriage, and the children only have ONE childhood. They don't need to spend it in the hopes that their father gets his shit together and realizes that his siblings and mother are monsters and he is the scapegoat, always has been. I think he is just happy his mother's vitriol is now aimed at his children and not him. LEAVE, Op.
If my mil said something like that, she'd catch these hands. And yes, ALL THOSE MESSAGES would be on fb. Like how the hell do you talk about your grandkids like that? "Here lies the r word" that triggered me so bad. To even talk about my kid being dead. Ugh
Story 1: he's not cutting contact with the mother. 🚩🚩🚩 He didn't care enough that his immediate family brought up their own hurt, he didn't protect his daughter when he witnessed things, he only "changed " his mind when his masculinity was called out. Therapy isn't going to help this situation because he is going to skew in the opposite direction to "regain his masculinity ".
Story 1: OP’s husband needs therapy to help him find his spine because between the way he allows his mother to talk about his kids and the way his brother speaks about him to his face is insane. He was clearly conditioned to take abuse - it needs to end.
@@johnbradbury8610 Not all abuse is physical. Emotional abuse is still abuse and often leads to children letting their parents do whatever they want even at the cost of their own children due to the fact that they want that parental affection from their own parents.
Like Danes: I DON’T LIKE ULTIMATUMS! Lorelai Gilmore: I don’t like Mondays, but they come around once in a while! * Some ultimatums are nonsensical or extremely disproportionate to the situation, but sometimes they do have their place.
For all my limited memories of my childhood, I remember going into my estranged grandmother’s house. All the grandkids photos were replaced with her two favorite granddaughters. They were also the only spared from how we were treated. Take those kids away, OP. This favoritism happened on both sides of my family. Spent a lifetime healing from the early feelings of being unwanted and not enough.
In the long run it's no better for the favoured kids either. No development of; sharing and adaptability, probably poor emotional development and an us against them mentality. They'll grow up to be bullies at work if they even apply themselves and when their support system is gone they'll have nothing.
My mom's parents didn't care much for us because my dad was "rich" ( he had a decent job at a navy base after he got out of the military.) I remember one Christmas she even kicked us out and forbade us from celebrating with that side of the family. Fast forward to today, I don't celebrate Christmas, and sometimes I get asked to go help Grandma cause her house is falling apart (she's like 90-something now) and I just give them the finger and move on with my life. When she dies I'm skipping the funeral.
I’m so sorry you had to deal with this; I was lucky to have wonderful grandparents and I wish everyone had this experience in their lives. At the same time, I’m a bit petty. When your mother’s mother (doesn’t deserve the title of grandmother) dies, I think you should go to the funeral. You know, just to make sure…
@@BruinPhD2009and maybe enquire about what methods are being used to make sure that grandmonster can’t raise from the dead like the vampire/monster that she is? And/or later on try to make a salt circle around the grave or maybe leave some flowers/herbs that are specifically used to help ward off evil (any Wiccan who passes by might clock why those were used)? Or maybe sprinkle some holy water on the grave? OR use the language of flowers to make a FU BOUQUET! Like pick flowers that mean vicious and mean but accurate things about grandma…yes the bouquet might look weird but until someone figures out what it means you look like a good grandchild for at least sending flowers…
Going off the title and not hearing anything else I'll say anything but a Bye Mom is the wrong response. After listening to the first part hubby made the wrong choice and WOW that MIL is a huge POS. Update hubby's brother basically said he's balls free right in front of him and he just sat there huh. OP always had a husband problem
MIL's whole family has a problem, she's a narc and there's probably been favouritism between the siblings before the grandkids came in. I'm guessing that hubby was the scapegoat before because BIL sounds like an entitled goldenchild.
I only recently found out that my family knew of my abuse. And did nothing. I am 58. I have zero contact with them. Not even an encouraging hug from 14 aunts and uncles. Do not betray your children.
My grandma is like this MIL, I was the favorite grandchild because I was the only girl. One by one my cousins stopped having anything to do with her. My brother was the first of us at 5 years old and now I think only one cousin still has anything to do with her. Once she lost one victim she moved on to the next. I cut her off when she decided to target my son, when he was only 10 months old. My cousins never resented me for being the favorite, I think my aunt did, but they knew I didn't have control over it.
7:54 after all, pee literally says that her husband's okay with the abuse because the kids aren't getting the abuse to their face. I would have lost all love of him.
My grandmother (Dad's mom) showed a lot of favoritism with the grandkids. She always said my mom married my dad for his money, which confused him as he really didn't have a lot of money. My parents agreed there was a difference in how we were treated and limited contact. This became more so when my grandmother started to show signs of dementia, acting like a child, literally hiding toys from us because they were hers and she didn't want to share with us (the kids she didn't like) years after she passed, the cousins finally realized what had been happening when their answer to a question about our grandmother was completely different from ours. (Question was what did Grandma always have in her purse for grandkids. Their answer - candy. Our answer - kleenex.) We just accept that Gma had favorites, which was not right. Our grandpa did not and when she started to get sick, he would visit more often and tried hard to make up for her. She was a very strong willed woman and I can imagine she made things exceedingly difficult for him. I felt bad for him.
OP in the first story is in the right 100%. My own dad's mom disliked my sibling and I because she disliked my mom. She was a horrible person, and the day we cut her off was the best day of my life. Those kinds of people don't deserve to be around kids.
"And God said, ‘So a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one body.’" Husband: Sooooo, what you're saying is, if my mother mistreats my other half I should take my mother's side?" God: Let me start from the beginning and say it slower. Tell me where I lost you.
@@LadyLeomonI like the imagination and creativity where you got that from cuz I can see it now that you said it lol, but I think that’s a reach. It’s either a typo or a sarcastic “because”.
Story 1 is definitely not over. People don’t just accept losing the object of their hatred, especially if that hatred brings them joy. That POSMIL is gonna start guilting and harassing the husband until she gets the kids back and he’ll fold. This unloving coward didn’t do anything when his mother admitted to hating his kids, didn’t do anything when she actively mistreats them, and didn’t do anything when his wife finally put her foot down. He only did something when he was called a coward. He either doesn’t love his own family or is just a mamas boy. He even has the nerve to say he’ll still visit him mom. Despite everything, he still chooses her. The mom will tell him to bring them to her, he’ll do it despite his children’s cry’s, and OP will realize she needs to divorce him to save her kids.
He is abused. It was obvious his whole family hates him. His mother abused his kids as a way to abuse him. My guess is he normalized the abuse, he did not recognize it for what it is. While he did agree that his children did not need to be subjected to it he is still subjecting himself to it. The abuse against him will now escalate because his mother, and siblings, have lost the targets they were using to abuse him. What is sad is he never recognized that his children were being abused as a method to abuse him. I do think OP will end up divorcing him, not because he takes the kids to see his evil mother, but because his behavior will deteriorate as the abuse against him escalates. Oh, to make it clear, I am not defending him, he is a loser and I do think OP needs to divorce him .
Story 2: NTA. Asking for some social space when a new baby is involved IN GENERAL is more than fine. I get that they are grieving and that’s a process that doesn’t really stop, but it can’t always be accommodated for.
My grandparents on my father’s side were cut off for similar reasons, they never liked my mom and they never liked me because I come from her, the difference is that my dad isn’t an idiot and doesn’t force us to see them (we did come to a compromise and he goes alone to see them once a year).
Story 2 reminds me of the story where OP is a widow who has twins with her second husband, and the first MIL insists that one of the twins be named after her son.
After hearing and reading the text of the things the grandmother said about the OP's kids I don't know how any of the other siblings are comfortable with their kids being around the her. If she could talk and text about the OP and her kids like that I would wonder what she was saying about my kids. It would drive me crazy wondering if my kids were being targeted and abused.
S1. NTA! Why would a parent even question this? It's horrible that OP had to involve others to get her husband to support her. I don't see this as a happy ending at all. Hubs clearly has issues and doesn't sound like a man that respects his wife at all. I wish OP and her kids the best
I totally agree. He agreed to keep his children from his mother but said he will still have contact with her. He is stuck in the toxic cycle of abuse. It is, obvious, that he was the family punching bag and the abuse became normalized for him. That is why he refused to accept that his psycho mother was abusing his children. As long as he continues to allow his toxic family to abuse him (and they all abuse him, the brother made that clear with his comment) things will never change.
I'm no contact with on set of grandparents for this exact thing. They clearly preferred my other cousins, luckily we only saw them every now and then, so now I have a near indifference to them. Even if they were on their deathbed, I don't think I'd visit them, because there is no connection to feel with them.
Story 1 all began with the MIL's hatred of OP. I wonder how that began, and why the husband stood for it. It seems obvious MIL is NOT a good person and perhaps she just wanted a victim to attack and cause pain to.
@@twentyfiveyears5010 he is the family punching bag. He grew up being abused by all of them and normalized the abuse. The whole situation is gross. I think she "hates" OP because she hates her own son. She abuses her grandchildren as a way to continue to abuse her son. He was too much of a pussy to realize it. I never thought of the possibility of him being an affair child but that is an interesting take on it.
Op's husband was called a kitty cat in his own home by his brother and didn't say anything. That would be so unattracted to me if I were the wife, because how are you not going to stand up for yourself, (I know he didn't stand up for his children) But at least I thought I was gonna read that that finally got to op's hubby...sigh That's wild to me, and the fact that he's still willing to go visit his mom. He needs therapy, and they also need couples therapy.
Story 1, this ain't over. Mil is going to blow up at the fact that she can't torture op's kids because of how much she hates op. Hope they're prepared of the aftermath and fallout. The reason I say this is because Jnmils, specially abusive ones like her, won't stand for their son protecting their children from her. Let alone refuse to let her abuse the children. Because in her sick mind she somehow has a right to do so because of her unreasonable psycho hatred towards op. I wouldn't be surprised if op's husband will have to confront his egg donor on her unreasonable hatred towards his kids and his wife. Then probably, inevitable, lead to her getting completely cut off because she'll go psycho on the fact that she's no longer getting her way in abusing op and the kids and her son protecting them from her rather than siding with her.
He's probably gonna divorce her or cheat. That whole situation is building up resentment and he's gonna slowly distance himself from his wife and maybe kids too because he probably feels forced and knowing people don't view him as Manly
What hurts the most is him knowing he's not man enough to protect his wife and kids. If he wants to feel manly, he's going to have to grow a pair. Deep down he knows this and it will eat at him.
I do agree they will end up divorced. He will take his resentment out on OP. Continued contact with his family will only escalate their abuse towards him. He does not realize that his family abusing his kids was a, roundabout, way of abusing him. They will just directly abuse him. He has normalized it and as it escalates he will take it out on OP, and possibly the children. His lack of response when his brother called him a "pussy" is very telling, it shows how he has normalized the abuse and does not know how to stop it. For him to make any progress he needs to acknowledge that he, himself, is abused. OP just needs to take her kids and walk away.
Story 2: Dead husband's parents, "Can you imagine what she (granddaughter), would have looked like , if only..." Right in front of OP. In OP's shoes I would have immediately said "If only what?. Let's get this straight right now, right here. I'M THE FATHER OF THIS BEAUTIFUL GIRL NOT YOUR SON. You WILL show me some respect in MY HOME, when you're here-- or you're not welcome here. What's it gonna be?" And there's only one suitable answer to that.
Story 1 Update: I’m very pissed off that it took him being bullied personally to consider the well being of his children. But hey, a step forward is a step forward.
it's really not a step forward. He agreed that the children do not have to have contact with is mother but he is continuing to have contact with her and it is obvious he is the family punching bag. Unless he realizes that he needs to cut contact with his whole family he will never move forward. He is agreeing to continue to be abused by his family.
Op's husband was called a name and that's all that made him react, but he still didn't cut off his mom from him. He's still being a kitty. Op should divorce him.
Story 1: (NTA) Being the last favourite and just being around favouritism is unhealthy. Don't let your kids around MIL and I guess FIL any anyone else who buys into the favouritism. I don't get people who seemingly hate people but still want them to come over. Also, OP doesn't fit into MIL's family so her children have to be punished? No. I think MIL's upset that she got called out for her c**p and her reputation is on the line. Protect your children. I'd go public with those chat-logs too. OP's dealing with a Mama's boy. He's crying because he wants to please his Mummy when he needs to side with the family he made. Maybe couple's counselling. Grandma's a narc, a classic bully. Yes, she needs an outlet to project her insecurities onto and is permanently age 14 at best. Also, "Private chats don't matter" my butt, those private chats can be screenshotted and MIL should know this. Update: So problem solved just like that? So why is BIL okay with this, or not? Oh, so OP's husband is a pu**y. That explains a lot. Wait, Hubby is still going to see his toxic family...? Great, so they'll still have a bug in his ear about how OP's evil, the kids are smelly and might still try to sneak the kids over to Grandma's. Couple's counselling is necessary here. Also, I'm not happy with BIL's double standard, OP's husband is weak so the kids have to suffer? NO!
I’ve read the 1st post in the “Best of Reddit Updates” subreddit. There was a comment by the OP posted, which she stated that she is black and her husband isn’t. So racism might be fueling the MIL’s cruelty towards the grandkids.
Story 2: Jesus! They were coming to stay every weekend? And it didn't occur to them how excessive that was until someone spoke to them? Yeah, bullshit. They pushed as hard as they could to establish a "norm" and find the limits of what they could get away with as far as being pretend grandparents goes. Now when everyone's used to them showing up every damn weekend it seems (by comparison) like a breath of fresh air when they cut it back to every _other_ weekend or maybe once a month. Newsflash: that's _still_ very excessive, given the context. It just doesn't seem like it because of what they've made you used to.
story 1: MiL is clearly a severe Cluster of Bees (ONLY refers to abusive instances) who needs scapegoats, and those scapegoats come in the form of OP and OP's children. Hubby is clearly in the FOG (Fear Obligation and Guilt) and may be narcissistic himself, and the other grandchildren are golden and probably the parents of those as well. Goes without saying that the husband's entire family sounds Clusters-Of-Bees-ish (aside the one SiL who let OP know about MiL's vile smacktalk).
Story 1:😢 He saw that message about the child in the grass and still didn't choose his kids?! There is no therapy that would fix this. All feeling I had for this man would die instantly.
Story 1 pre-update, MiL sounds like a narcissist, she hates you and your kids, but embraces the opportunity to make you the bad guy because she can't bully your kids in her own way Post update, great news, but be wary, a tiger doesn't change it's stripes and neither do lemmings either, not without some sort of therapy
Story 1. NTA But Op has to take responsibility in this situation too she shouldn't have let the "grandmother" be around the kids he moment she realized "grandma" didn't like them. The dad and his mom are AHs
OP, most definitely IS the a-hole because she never should have allowed that bs in the first place. You can’t allow abuse for YEARS and then all of a sudden say, oh no, this is now negatively affecting my kids! 🙄😡
1) Wow it's sad grandma is awful towards OP's children, hurting them with favoritism toward the other children in the family. I think OP is right to protect her children from this nasty toxic environment. She is right to tell her husband either he chooses his kids or his mother. If he makes the wrong choice, OP's correct choice is divorce. It's good she has written proof of the harmful toxicity coming from grandma. NTA. Good for OP to want to protect her kids. After update: Wow, grandma is awful and OP's husband is disgusting to think how his mother acts is excusable. I'm glad to hear her country does not have grandparents' rights and would take seriously the abuse. Her husband is a worthless POS unless he pulls his head out of his ass and decides to protect his children and put their, and his wife's best interests first. After next update: I am so glad OP had someone in the family to share with her the nasty things grandma was spewing. It is good the husband spoke with his daughter and came around to seeing how harmful seeing the grandparents is. It's good he agreed to keep the kids away from the grandparents. Marriage counseling is a must. 2) I can see how their intrusiveness and comments are inappropriate, but OP needs to discuss this with his wife. It is OP's wife who needs to set boundaries and be the one to tell them to back off. After comments: It is not ok if OP's wife does not see anything wrong with their attitude. If they can have a healthy relationship and not insult and disregard OP, then being additional loving people in their child's life would be a ok. It's good they talked and she came to realize the former partner's parents need some distance and boundaries. After update: It sounds like this is working out well, the discussion with the unrelated, sort-of grandparents went well and they acknowledged their mistakes, took a step back and will be less intrusive and more considerate going forward. Sounds like a happy ending.
Story 1 Honestly I wouldn't let my kids near anyone in his family.....all the women were involved in those chats and not a one of them in thousands of texts told mom off for talking about children that way and the rest have watched her bully and verbally abuse them at family events and done nothing....they are all worthless pieces of crap.
It's good you're protecting your kids. My grandmother playes favourites. She sent Christmas gifts to our cousins. But we got nothing not even Christmas cards (which she gave each with money inside of). She remembered all their birthdays as well. But forgot ours. My birthday was new years day. And my brother's was a couple of days before hers. I cried a lot. Why doesn't nana love us. We were well behaved and our cousins would run everywhere screaming and break stuff. Protecting your kids is important. And my mother went no contact on her mother. So your husband isn't being a good father.
Story 1: The reason why the MIL wants to see her grandchildren because she "loooooves" them so much is because people like this have to have scapegoats witness treating the other golden grandchildren. I know, the mindset doesn't make sense to me, either, but people like this exist and they get some sort of twisted satisfaction in mistreating the scapegoat kids. Yes, it's sick. Edit: listening to what the older brother said made it clear--OP's husband is the scapegoat in his family. The scapegoat's children become the next generation of scapegoats.
You can tell the husband lowkey is a victim of his mom too. Bc what sane person would find this normal! He’s been conditioned to see this horrible behavior as okay.
Spineless Husband: It never should’ve gotten to this stage. They are CHILDREN. YOUR children. Shouldn’t you be standing up for them? When you first held your babies in your arms as newborns, you made a promise to them: I will love you, I will protect you and I will give you the best life possible. The fact that your children are dreading going over because their grandmother treats them so badly should be a big red billboard that you should listen to. OP, you’re NTA. Your husband and his mother on the other hand?
My grandma hated me and only me out of all her grandkids. I never knew why. My brother got away with everything he did but when I threw up from eating shrimp, she told the family I was pregnant. I was 14. First boyfriend, pregnant, also 14. She stole my money and clothes and screamed that they were hers. She'd cook for herself, then get mad at me for refusing to wash the dishes.
story 1: the MIL hatres will never be "fixed", I'm with LG, I'm usually against ultimatums however in this scenario they are only needed but need to be reinforced; the MIL just want to hate on OP for some unknown reason. the safety of the children come first, if OPs husband does not understand that just means he does not care.
It's not an unknown reason, Op and kids are a different race from MIL. I always find it suspect when the Ops go out of their way to not state the obvious and for whatever reason just gloss over that and make it seem like the bully has no twisted reason to do what they do. Doesn't make it acceptable, but it does make it understandable and lets us know that this won't be fixed with mediation or therapy.
6:05 I'm sorry but that commenter was just an idiot. Are you serious that he can't get barred from showing the kids to his mother saying you hate the children is literally f****** emotional abuse
I remember a story my mom told me that happened when I was young. Her father was physically and emotionally abusive, but by the time I was born, he was sickly, needed a cane, and didn't do much besides say some shitty crap in another language. My mom had already opted not to really teach me her native tongue mostly for that reason, but she didn't think her dad was still a danger. At least, until she caught him chasing me around with his cane. Mind you, I was little and not distressed, apparently thinking it was a game. But even though I wasn't hurt, my mom marched over to her mom and gave her an ultimatum: either daddy dearest keeps his paws and cane away from me, or she's never seeing them again. Never had any issues since then.
As an aside, it has long been known that ladies who have long necks are termed as beautiful, as they are compared to swans, with the gracefulness that a swan is obviously seen with. Those people who DON’T have longnecks, or whose necks are shorter, look very short and squat. So, Grandma, who is the real beauty in this family??!
You gotta stop saying you’re against ultimatums because you’re not. Dealbreakers are ultimatums. Almost every choice you make is an ultimatum it’s just not stated like one. If you hit me I walk is an ultimatum and a perfectly acceptable one. Cheat on me, treat my kids or me poorly, have certain abhorrent ideals or opinions, and I can’t be with you are all ultimatums that are 100% okay and fully supported by you. Like it’s just funny to me whenever you say that you don’t like ultimatums but then turn around and say dealbreakers are fine when they are literally the same exact thing, just stated differently.
Story 2: I understand the confusion about the kid. You let people into your house and let them talk like that about your kid, I'd second guess who the father really was myself. I didn't think the kid was someone else's, but I did think maybe there's a deeper reason the wife was allowing this, like maybe she was still stuck on the late husband.
I need to write this before I see the comments or the update on story 1. My dad's mom hated me and my siblings, though that could be because we were so different from the other cousins, (autism in all three of us). Grandmother couldn't understand us, so she hated us. I remember the last time I saw her, it was morning of either Christmas Eve or Christmas Day, and my dad came into the bedroom we were staying in at grandma's house, tell us that we need to pack everything up now. We didn't argue, and before I knew it, we were in the car going home early. I saw grandma watching us leave. Years later, I learned what happened that day. You see, Grandmother hated my mom, and that visit was one of the worst visits we've had with her. Grandmother told my dad that is either her (his mom) or his wife and kids. No hesitation, not even a discussion with mom (his wife) about what he needs to do. We just told us to pack, we are leaving. And we did. Last time dad ever spoke to her. Because of the standard my dad showed me, I believe that the husband is the biggest a$$h013 in this story. He never had his family's (wife and children) backs. He still sees his parents and siblings as his immediate family. When in reality, the moment he got married to his wife, she, and any children they have together, are his immediate family, while his parents and siblings became extended family. Even if he realizes what is going on, and try to change, his wife and children now know that they cannot trust him with their life. Edit: honestly, brother-in-law was right. Husband was a "kitty". He had allowed disrespected to happened to his children, refused to listen to them and his wife, showed everyone that he doesn't have his wife's back. Of course he is a "kitty".
My grandmother is like this. She ignores me when my cousins are around, and then love bombs me when their not. To her, I'm just a backup plan. It's the same with her daughters. My mom, who she treated the same as me and her favourite child My aunt the mother of my 2 cousins. I have been pretty low contact with her since I lost my mom. Still, I c her more than my cousins and aunt who will go month and in my auts case years with sporadic contact only talking to her when they want money. My other grandmother had over 20 grandkids and didn't like all the spouses (with good reason), but she always loved and cared for the grandkids (despite some of them turning out like their toxic parents or looking like the bad spouses) because that's what a good grandmother does. She was the toughest lady I knew, and everyone loved her, but feared her wrath if you did rong. She once saw 2 kids throwing stones at swans in the park. She grabbed them by the ear and dragged them home to their parents, and told them what their children were doing. You do not mess with that wouman.
Wow, OP2's girlfriend is such a keeper! I unfortunately know SO MANY women that would have reamed OP, and unfairly demanded he get rid of the dog(not the dog's fault, he just hasn't been trained properly). But yeah, people were right, I also thought about what I would do in that situation, and I would also totally see it as an opportunity to upgrade some of my shoes, and wheedle out shoes that I do not like, that fit poorly, etc. I just hope OP gets his dog some professional training😁
Story 1: It's bizarre that OP's in-laws excuse the vile, hateful, malicious behavior of her MIL. It sounds like a family of questionable values. OP's right to be determined to remove her children from what is certainly emotional abuse, that will only harm them more as they age. As for her marriage, it sounds like at least belatedly, her husband understands the harm to his children coming from his own mother. The BIL sounds like he's abusive too, to describe his own brother so rudely. More ugly verbal behavior. It would be satisfying to let the community at large know that MIL is so deeply ugly to her own grandchildren and DIL, but perhaps that's not the consequence they want for the MIL. Or OP could at least show her MIL that she's seen the cruel language she used to describe her grandchildren. I wonder what weird excuse the MIL would come up with to justify her words?
Op's husband has always been the scapegoat, for whatever reason, and for the family to acknowledge their shitty behavior would upset the family dynamic. Light needs to be shined (shone?) on this family. I would make a FB post of thesis messages with a caption, "for those asking why I filed for divorce from this family."
I protected my kids from my own mom, we were NC with her when they were little and LC when they were a bit older. Still those few times of contact, like milestone birthdays and holidays, my mom managed to say and do hurtful things. Now my kids are adults and are grateful I shielded them when they were vulnerable.
I honestly think people who say they're 'against ultimatums' are just plain stupid. No one is disputing that ultimatums are bad when you use them as a weapon, but if you have no better recourse and understand that those are your only options (and you're willing to accept either), then they're absolutely valid.
I wouldn't want to have anything to do with somebody that talks about ANY children that way. If you can say these abhorrent things about literal children, you are a horrible person with bad character. But if you say it about MY children, I would advise you to not come in front of my eyes ever again.
Story 1: OP needs to divorce her spineless, toxic, and selfish husband! OP is TA for not tolerating BS from her nightmare of a MIL! If OP is TA for being strong and maintaining boundaries; then I take that as a compliment!
First Story - I like that OP turned the situation around when talking to the brother-in-law. When folks won't see another side, turning it around on them and asking them how they would feel if the same situation was being done to them or their family, you get a very different reaction. Happy that OP's husband finally saw the light. I hope if MIL continues to be the victim, husband tells her why the children are not visiting. What a horrible woman..
Last story, NTA, but there will be More Updates, to come. Op you don't get it, those people Won't let up, they're only Acquiescing op, for a "Lil Bit" and then it will go back to Full blown home invasion, and Take Over, with your "Wife" leading the Charge. Op, your Wife needs therapy, and You should've Never Married this Widow, that Won't let Go of her Late Husband in Any(way), be Prepared for an Uphill War, because this is Not over. Good luck, NTA.
i still hope OP divorce that man, he only reacting when his manliness being insult, not when his children being treated bad by his own mother. He doesn't deserve OP and the children
I don't trust him
I just hope he's one of those people who never learned how to set boundaries and how to be assertive, and that hearing it from his brother shook some sense into him. I hope so for the chance of the kids. I hope that dad grows a back bone from this and learns to protect those kids above all else.
yeah, he's really disgusting. Oh, the wife and kids can be crapped on but being mocked by his brother is tooooooooooooo much.
It's sad that OP needed reddit for this. Yeah OP you're the AH for not allowing your MIL to be cruel to your children. Think, Mcfly, think.
Some people need a really loud wake up call to actually change gears and some people fall back into the same old habits but just hide it better. In this case I'm in favor of giving the husband a second chance but I'd talk to my kids and instill in them, that they don't need to take insults and that they tell me, whenever something is making them unhappy. Husband definitely needs to rebuild some trust.
The older brother is obviously also a POS but it was satisfying to have someone be able to properly humiliate that spineless husband. I hope he's able to take a solid look at himself and do better, but the fact that he's still going to see mommy on his own after what she said doesn't promote optimism. Additionally, how is it possible to even feel love for your partner again after this type of situation? That he allowed his mommy to treat their children like shit, refused to take his wife and children’s concerns seriously, and only took action once his own pride was at stake. The relationship sounds doomed and just a matter of time before divorce.
👍🏿💯
The thing is, the idiot doesn't seem to realize that his kids know that he doesn't value them due to his actions and will resent and maybe even hate him for it and once that hate happens, it's permanent. They may eventually forgive after years wasted, but they will never forget. That deep emotional scar stays.
I'm sorry, I know he's bad but when he said that about his younger brother bro I was elated. That had me like chuckling my ass off
@@bloodypingas4356the brothers a tool but he’s right about op husband. It’s like that meme the worst person you know made a good point
Sounds like she lost a lot of respect for him.
Story 1: It took the OP's husband getting name called to do a barely decent thing for his family.
No. It took him talking to his daughter. His brother calls him a pussy & he just sat there & took it.
Cause his manhood was questioned
OP is the AH for staying with him.
Because his brother was spot on.
I know. So, the whole family has no respect for OP's husband so that is why they all tolerated his parents treating his children like trash. OMG, I would go no contact with the lot of them. OP's husband still willing to have contact with his family would be enough to make me toss him out. He doesn't get that his parents abusing his kids is a way of abusing him. Just crazy.
to the commenter who said "seems if she hated them she'd welcome you saying she doesn't ever have to see them again" see, but that would take away her fun. these are her play things, whose pain she enjoys. how dare OP deprive her of her victims. that's how abusers think
Narcs need an enemy and a scapegoat. Plus when it comes to family, their "pwecious weputation" is at stake.
Yeah, like if there was a test strip for “knows nothing about narcissistic family dynamics” - that would have been that message.
It seems logical that “you hate someone, you don’t want to see them. Period” but for narc it’s as if you take away their favorite mistreated toy. It might miss the eyes, be all covered in markers and holes from matches, but it’s “so fun to see how far you can push them till they break”
We - victims of narcissistic abuse - help them with their emotions. We are exhaust pipe for them; to remove pressure and dark thoughts. We are “here” to make them pleasant for others.
And others aren’t dumb: they see how we are being treated. They just don’t want it for themselves
@@maranathaschraag5757 100% that. My grandmother is the same, I spent one night at my mom's house, specially after something she did? Cries and makes herself the victim and whines to my mom asking when I'm coming back, just to ignore me when I do come back and days after she tries to pick a petty fight with me again just so she can make my life hell. For context, yes I live with my grandmother and yes she is a fucking nightmare, but I live here cause it's cheaper and I have space unlike my mom's house
Ikr? Abusers will pretend so you can bring their toys back
OP’s husband only cared when it insulted himself. He doesn’t care about his family, just his ego. I hope OP addresses this because that selfishness will affect them in other ways.
He ends up being his mom's or his wife's doormat anyways
@lmbm8598 ......Or protecting his wife and children makes him a self-respecting man. It's true. Don't protect your wife and children because your wife nagged you to do it. Do it for self-respect. Because you love them and believe they should be treated well.
Doesn't care when his children are insulted but once he is...
“His mother is very willing to apologize and talk and she says that she loves our children very much.”
Translation: You are threatening to take away my victims, I will do everything in my power to maintain access to them so I can keep hurting them.
Sounds like my grandmother. She hated my mom, so we were the "lesser" grandkids and we caught on by the time we hit middle school. Haven't seen that old hag in probably a decade by now, I think
Nailed it.
Yes! My grandmother openly hated me. It was awful.
I hope the story 1’s husband realizes that he is failing all his duties as a father and partner for not protecting his family. This also shows how he himself isn’t viewed highly by the family since they are more okay with his kids taking this then theirs
I think his brother calling him what he is at that dinner was something he needed to hear to wake him up to what he would be losing because he was trying to defend his sperm donor and egg donor over hims wife and children. because those two grandparents are not parents but cheap evil clowns
With family like this, who needs enemies?
The brother is probably glad his "pussy" brother is the punching bag, not him so he's thrilled.
Right? The double standard of the brother in law. How is it ok for OP kids to be treated like that but BIL kids can't be treated like that.
@@StaubAufDenKnochenexactly
Story 1: people really need to start choosing violence and chaos, when they go low, you yo to hell. Spread that chat everywhere and tell mil to pull up if she feel a type of way
Oh yeah, that's why MIL still wants OP and her family to still come to gatherings, her "pwecious weputation"🤮🤬
YESSSSSS! LET IT ALL BUUURN!🔥
Story 1: Having your own brother call you a "pussy" for not being man enough to stand up to your parents and draw a line in the sand, hearing your children and wife make their stance clear they cannot forgive and forget...and husband is still talking about visiting the in-laws? I'm not one who says divorce but I think they should separate first and have him do a ton of therapy to figure out what self-esteem/dependant/attachment issues he has going on there first before the marriage continuation talks can be done because he is far away from being a good husband or father due to the immense lack of protective instinct to keep his kids and wife safe. Those statements are unforgivable cut contact immediately type for anyone who is sane enough to be a good husband and father and he is clearly not ready. It doesn't matter if, in the moments of calm, he does his duties well; if he can't do what a good husband/father would do when it counts, then re-evaluation needs to take place.
"Having your own brother call you a "pussy" for not being man enough to stand up to your parents and draw a line in the sand" this says so much about their family dynamics, mum's a narc and I'm guessing Hubby's the scapegoat but now it extends to his kids and he's just okay with it.
@@robinkholmes7127 yup because it says alot that the brother's defense wasn't that his mother wasn't capable of doing that to his children, he was able to respond to op's question because he knew she was capable of it but that his mother knows if she tried, it would end badly for her and the only reason she does it to op's kids is that she knows she can get away with it. I honestly think that moment should have been a wake up call for op to initiate separation and demand individual therapy for husband because they literally told her to her face, the only reason this thing started and continues is because her huzzy has allowed it to and it honestly seems like the only reason huzzy has "okayed" the kids not visiting them anymore is because a family member pointed out that he should have actually done something a very long time ago.
Story 1: The husband's brother might be a tool, but he summed up the problem and answer really well. The husband needed to figure out where his balls were, reattach them, and protect his kids from his out-of-pocket mom.
the thing is, that comment sums up the husband's place in the family. He is the family punching bag, and his mother has moved on to abusing his kids as a way of abusing him. He was so used to the abuse (I am not, in any way, shape, or form, defending him) that he could not recognize his mother was abusing his children. The fact that he is choosing to still be a punching bag for his family is what would have sent me over the edge. OP needs to walk away from that shit show and protect her children. Her husband is never going to change. He gets some sort of satisfaction from being the family punching bag.
Speaking from experience: kids notice a lot more than adults give them credit for.
Yes. They soak up everything like sponges. They have to as they're blank slates. Everything they know they get from those around them which is why we have to be careful who is around them, what's said and done and make sure we practice what we preach. It's baffling that most people don't seem to understand that and get mad at kids for mimicking their behavior.
If OP has to even ask this question then her relationship is over.
Are you one of those who didn't read/hear that the kid is his and not the previous husband's?
@skybluepainter
Are you one of those who didn’t read the comment clearly and failed to see that the comment was talking about a woman, not a man?
The commenter was talking about Story 1 (posted by a woman), not 2 (posted by a man).
I still don't think Hubby gets it, he just didn't want to be insulted by anyone.
Op said parental alienation and bullying is a big thing where she lives, so she should have her lawyer all set to file for divorce along with a restraining order against the MIL.
There is nothing to work on in this marriage, and the children only have ONE childhood. They don't need to spend it in the hopes that their father gets his shit together and realizes that his siblings and mother are monsters and he is the scapegoat, always has been.
I think he is just happy his mother's vitriol is now aimed at his children and not him.
LEAVE, Op.
If my mil said something like that, she'd catch these hands. And yes, ALL THOSE MESSAGES would be on fb. Like how the hell do you talk about your grandkids like that? "Here lies the r word" that triggered me so bad. To even talk about my kid being dead. Ugh
Story 1: he's not cutting contact with the mother. 🚩🚩🚩 He didn't care enough that his immediate family brought up their own hurt, he didn't protect his daughter when he witnessed things, he only "changed " his mind when his masculinity was called out. Therapy isn't going to help this situation because he is going to skew in the opposite direction to "regain his masculinity ".
Story 1: OP’s husband needs therapy to help him find his spine because between the way he allows his mother to talk about his kids and the way his brother speaks about him to his face is insane. He was clearly conditioned to take abuse - it needs to end.
therapy isn't going to change anything. Where does it say the husband was abused? OP is the AH until she leaves him
@@johnbradbury8610 What a dumbas take. Not all abuse is physical.
@@league-of-shadows This!!
@@johnbradbury8610 Not all abuse is physical. Emotional abuse is still abuse and often leads to children letting their parents do whatever they want even at the cost of their own children due to the fact that they want that parental affection from their own parents.
"My Mummy can treat our kids like crap but don't you dare say she can't see them!" Yeah, he needs help.
sometimes one person's "ultimatum" is another person's "boundary". Ultimatums aren't always bad.
Like Danes: I DON’T LIKE ULTIMATUMS!
Lorelai Gilmore: I don’t like Mondays, but they come around once in a while!
*
Some ultimatums are nonsensical or extremely disproportionate to the situation, but sometimes they do have their place.
The number one rule when it comes to ultimatums, be willing to loose everything. They're like bets.
@@robinkholmes7127 which is also the risk you take in drawing boundaries
Story 1: NTA Get your children as far away from your toxic husband and his family. Go full MAMA BEAR.
"Go full MAMA BEAR." my thoughts exactly.
For all my limited memories of my childhood, I remember going into my estranged grandmother’s house. All the grandkids photos were replaced with her two favorite granddaughters. They were also the only spared from how we were treated.
Take those kids away, OP. This favoritism happened on both sides of my family. Spent a lifetime healing from the early feelings of being unwanted and not enough.
In the long run it's no better for the favoured kids either. No development of; sharing and adaptability, probably poor emotional development and an us against them mentality. They'll grow up to be bullies at work if they even apply themselves and when their support system is gone they'll have nothing.
My mom's parents didn't care much for us because my dad was "rich" ( he had a decent job at a navy base after he got out of the military.) I remember one Christmas she even kicked us out and forbade us from celebrating with that side of the family. Fast forward to today, I don't celebrate Christmas, and sometimes I get asked to go help Grandma cause her house is falling apart (she's like 90-something now) and I just give them the finger and move on with my life. When she dies I'm skipping the funeral.
I’m so sorry you had to deal with this; I was lucky to have wonderful grandparents and I wish everyone had this experience in their lives. At the same time, I’m a bit petty. When your mother’s mother (doesn’t deserve the title of grandmother) dies, I think you should go to the funeral. You know, just to make sure…
@@BruinPhD2009 And at the gravesite I'd release a bunch of balloons that say, "ding, dong the witch is dead"!
@@BruinPhD2009and maybe enquire about what methods are being used to make sure that grandmonster can’t raise from the dead like the vampire/monster that she is?
And/or later on try to make a salt circle around the grave or maybe leave some flowers/herbs that are specifically used to help ward off evil (any Wiccan who passes by might clock why those were used)?
Or maybe sprinkle some holy water on the grave?
OR use the language of flowers to make a FU BOUQUET! Like pick flowers that mean vicious and mean but accurate things about grandma…yes the bouquet might look weird but until someone figures out what it means you look like a good grandchild for at least sending flowers…
Story 2… nta. There is a huge difference between holding space and avoiding telling somebody that they clearly need to go to therapy.
Going off the title and not hearing anything else I'll say anything but a Bye Mom is the wrong response. After listening to the first part hubby made the wrong choice and WOW that MIL is a huge POS. Update hubby's brother basically said he's balls free right in front of him and he just sat there huh. OP always had a husband problem
and a mil problem
@@f687sNFM nah hubby was the problem because it was HIS JOB to put HIS MOTHER in her place
@@UchuKejiMovan Easy to say when you haven't been raised by Satan's apprentice.
@@shells500tutubo you don't know how I was raised 🤣🤣🤣🤣
MIL's whole family has a problem, she's a narc and there's probably been favouritism between the siblings before the grandkids came in. I'm guessing that hubby was the scapegoat before because BIL sounds like an entitled goldenchild.
I only recently found out that my family knew of my abuse. And did nothing. I am 58. I have zero contact with them. Not even an encouraging hug from 14 aunts and uncles. Do not betray your children.
They need grief counseling. It's got to be at least 3 years since he passed. They might be great extra grandparents after that.
My grandma is like this MIL, I was the favorite grandchild because I was the only girl. One by one my cousins stopped having anything to do with her. My brother was the first of us at 5 years old and now I think only one cousin still has anything to do with her.
Once she lost one victim she moved on to the next. I cut her off when she decided to target my son, when he was only 10 months old. My cousins never resented me for being the favorite, I think my aunt did, but they knew I didn't have control over it.
Good for you. No relatives is far better than toxic ones.
7:54 after all, pee literally says that her husband's okay with the abuse because the kids aren't getting the abuse to their face. I would have lost all love of him.
ALL OF IT.
My grandmother (Dad's mom) showed a lot of favoritism with the grandkids. She always said my mom married my dad for his money, which confused him as he really didn't have a lot of money. My parents agreed there was a difference in how we were treated and limited contact. This became more so when my grandmother started to show signs of dementia, acting like a child, literally hiding toys from us because they were hers and she didn't want to share with us (the kids she didn't like) years after she passed, the cousins finally realized what had been happening when their answer to a question about our grandmother was completely different from ours. (Question was what did Grandma always have in her purse for grandkids. Their answer - candy. Our answer - kleenex.) We just accept that Gma had favorites, which was not right. Our grandpa did not and when she started to get sick, he would visit more often and tried hard to make up for her. She was a very strong willed woman and I can imagine she made things exceedingly difficult for him. I felt bad for him.
OP in the first story is in the right 100%. My own dad's mom disliked my sibling and I because she disliked my mom. She was a horrible person, and the day we cut her off was the best day of my life. Those kinds of people don't deserve to be around kids.
"And God said, ‘So a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one body.’"
Husband: Sooooo, what you're saying is, if my mother mistreats my other half I should take my mother's side?"
God: Let me start from the beginning and say it slower. Tell me where I lost you.
"BACAUSE" on the thumbnail killed me
I like to think it was intentional because the husband is such a *chicken* (bacaw, get it?) 🤣🤣🤣
@@LadyLeomonI like the imagination and creativity where you got that from cuz I can see it now that you said it lol, but I think that’s a reach. It’s either a typo or a sarcastic “because”.
@@cejara1801 thanks, and yeah it’s almost certainly a typo … plus I have no clue how to spell the chicken sound anyway 😅😅😅
Story 1 is definitely not over. People don’t just accept losing the object of their hatred, especially if that hatred brings them joy.
That POSMIL is gonna start guilting and harassing the husband until she gets the kids back and he’ll fold.
This unloving coward didn’t do anything when his mother admitted to hating his kids, didn’t do anything when she actively mistreats them, and didn’t do anything when his wife finally put her foot down. He only did something when he was called a coward. He either doesn’t love his own family or is just a mamas boy. He even has the nerve to say he’ll still visit him mom. Despite everything, he still chooses her.
The mom will tell him to bring them to her, he’ll do it despite his children’s cry’s, and OP will realize she needs to divorce him to save her kids.
He is abused. It was obvious his whole family hates him. His mother abused his kids as a way to abuse him. My guess is he normalized the abuse, he did not recognize it for what it is. While he did agree that his children did not need to be subjected to it he is still subjecting himself to it. The abuse against him will now escalate because his mother, and siblings, have lost the targets they were using to abuse him. What is sad is he never recognized that his children were being abused as a method to abuse him. I do think OP will end up divorcing him, not because he takes the kids to see his evil mother, but because his behavior will deteriorate as the abuse against him escalates. Oh, to make it clear, I am not defending him, he is a loser and I do think OP needs to divorce him .
Good lord. That woman is vile. Who talks like that about some children?
Story 2: NTA. Asking for some social space when a new baby is involved IN GENERAL is more than fine. I get that they are grieving and that’s a process that doesn’t really stop, but it can’t always be accommodated for.
My grandparents on my father’s side were cut off for similar reasons, they never liked my mom and they never liked me because I come from her, the difference is that my dad isn’t an idiot and doesn’t force us to see them (we did come to a compromise and he goes alone to see them once a year).
I'm sorry but if this was even remotely an issue husband would simply have to go....what the hell
Story 2 reminds me of the story where OP is a widow who has twins with her second husband, and the first MIL insists that one of the twins be named after her son.
Your husband maybe a kitty cat but you need to be a tiger for your kids ❤❤❤
After hearing and reading the text of the things the grandmother said about the OP's kids I don't know how any of the other siblings are comfortable with their kids being around the her. If she could talk and text about the OP and her kids like that I would wonder what she was saying about my kids. It would drive me crazy wondering if my kids were being targeted and abused.
S1. NTA! Why would a parent even question this? It's horrible that OP had to involve others to get her husband to support her. I don't see this as a happy ending at all. Hubs clearly has issues and doesn't sound like a man that respects his wife at all. I wish OP and her kids the best
Story 1, I'm really not sold on the husband changing his mind, this is not the end of the story
I totally agree. He agreed to keep his children from his mother but said he will still have contact with her. He is stuck in the toxic cycle of abuse. It is, obvious, that he was the family punching bag and the abuse became normalized for him. That is why he refused to accept that his psycho mother was abusing his children. As long as he continues to allow his toxic family to abuse him (and they all abuse him, the brother made that clear with his comment) things will never change.
I'm no contact with on set of grandparents for this exact thing. They clearly preferred my other cousins, luckily we only saw them every now and then, so now I have a near indifference to them. Even if they were on their deathbed, I don't think I'd visit them, because there is no connection to feel with them.
Husband and his family are terrible.
Story 1 all began with the MIL's hatred of OP. I wonder how that began, and why the husband stood for it. It seems obvious MIL is NOT a good person and perhaps she just wanted a victim to attack and cause pain to.
MIL hates him, his brother hates him, makes you wonder if he is an affair child or something.
@@twentyfiveyears5010 he is the family punching bag. He grew up being abused by all of them and normalized the abuse. The whole situation is gross. I think she "hates" OP because she hates her own son. She abuses her grandchildren as a way to continue to abuse her son. He was too much of a pussy to realize it. I never thought of the possibility of him being an affair child but that is an interesting take on it.
Op's husband was called a kitty cat in his own home by his brother and didn't say anything. That would be so unattracted to me if I were the wife, because how are you not going to stand up for yourself, (I know he didn't stand up for his children) But at least I thought I was gonna read that that finally got to op's hubby...sigh That's wild to me, and the fact that he's still willing to go visit his mom. He needs therapy, and they also need couples therapy.
Just by the title I don’t like where this is going
Just by the title, Dad needs to grow a spine and protect his children from the toxic members of the family.
Yup. Dump him
Story 1, this ain't over. Mil is going to blow up at the fact that she can't torture op's kids because of how much she hates op. Hope they're prepared of the aftermath and fallout.
The reason I say this is because Jnmils, specially abusive ones like her, won't stand for their son protecting their children from her. Let alone refuse to let her abuse the children. Because in her sick mind she somehow has a right to do so because of her unreasonable psycho hatred towards op. I wouldn't be surprised if op's husband will have to confront his egg donor on her unreasonable hatred towards his kids and his wife. Then probably, inevitable, lead to her getting completely cut off because she'll go psycho on the fact that she's no longer getting her way in abusing op and the kids and her son protecting them from her rather than siding with her.
He's probably gonna divorce her or cheat. That whole situation is building up resentment and he's gonna slowly distance himself from his wife and maybe kids too because he probably feels forced and knowing people don't view him as Manly
Yeah, I get the feeling he will want to re-establish his manhood by bagging another woman.
As if he actually cared about his family in the first place. If he actually cared, this would have been an easy choice.
What hurts the most is him knowing he's not man enough to protect his wife and kids. If he wants to feel manly, he's going to have to grow a pair. Deep down he knows this and it will eat at him.
I do agree they will end up divorced. He will take his resentment out on OP. Continued contact with his family will only escalate their abuse towards him. He does not realize that his family abusing his kids was a, roundabout, way of abusing him. They will just directly abuse him. He has normalized it and as it escalates he will take it out on OP, and possibly the children. His lack of response when his brother called him a "pussy" is very telling, it shows how he has normalized the abuse and does not know how to stop it. For him to make any progress he needs to acknowledge that he, himself, is abused. OP just needs to take her kids and walk away.
Story 2: Dead husband's parents, "Can you imagine what she (granddaughter), would have looked like , if only..." Right in front of OP. In OP's shoes I would have immediately said "If only what?. Let's get this straight right now, right here. I'M THE FATHER OF THIS BEAUTIFUL GIRL NOT YOUR SON. You WILL show me some respect in MY HOME, when you're here-- or you're not welcome here. What's it gonna be?" And there's only one suitable answer to that.
I really don’t know how people who act like the MIL can live with themselves. They have so much hate in their hearts and it fuels them somehow.
Story 1 Update: I’m very pissed off that it took him being bullied personally to consider the well being of his children. But hey, a step forward is a step forward.
it's really not a step forward. He agreed that the children do not have to have contact with is mother but he is continuing to have contact with her and it is obvious he is the family punching bag. Unless he realizes that he needs to cut contact with his whole family he will never move forward. He is agreeing to continue to be abused by his family.
Op's husband was called a name and that's all that made him react, but he still didn't cut off his mom from him. He's still being a kitty. Op should divorce him.
Ahh yes the non confrontational husband
Story 1: (NTA) Being the last favourite and just being around favouritism is unhealthy. Don't let your kids around MIL and I guess FIL any anyone else who buys into the favouritism. I don't get people who seemingly hate people but still want them to come over. Also, OP doesn't fit into MIL's family so her children have to be punished? No. I think MIL's upset that she got called out for her c**p and her reputation is on the line. Protect your children. I'd go public with those chat-logs too. OP's dealing with a Mama's boy. He's crying because he wants to please his Mummy when he needs to side with the family he made. Maybe couple's counselling. Grandma's a narc, a classic bully. Yes, she needs an outlet to project her insecurities onto and is permanently age 14 at best. Also, "Private chats don't matter" my butt, those private chats can be screenshotted and MIL should know this.
Update: So problem solved just like that? So why is BIL okay with this, or not? Oh, so OP's husband is a pu**y. That explains a lot. Wait, Hubby is still going to see his toxic family...? Great, so they'll still have a bug in his ear about how OP's evil, the kids are smelly and might still try to sneak the kids over to Grandma's. Couple's counselling is necessary here. Also, I'm not happy with BIL's double standard, OP's husband is weak so the kids have to suffer? NO!
OP is such a good mom. she needs away from that poor excuse of a 'man'.
I’ve read the 1st post in the “Best of Reddit Updates” subreddit. There was a comment by the OP posted, which she stated that she is black and her husband isn’t. So racism might be fueling the MIL’s cruelty towards the grandkids.
"think how much cuter that kid would have been if she was OUR son's daughter!" ma'am that is supposed to be an inside thought.
OP:
You don't have a MIL problem. You have a husband problem...
Story 2: Jesus! They were coming to stay every weekend? And it didn't occur to them how excessive that was until someone spoke to them? Yeah, bullshit. They pushed as hard as they could to establish a "norm" and find the limits of what they could get away with as far as being pretend grandparents goes. Now when everyone's used to them showing up every damn weekend it seems (by comparison) like a breath of fresh air when they cut it back to every _other_ weekend or maybe once a month. Newsflash: that's _still_ very excessive, given the context. It just doesn't seem like it because of what they've made you used to.
story 1: MiL is clearly a severe Cluster of Bees (ONLY refers to abusive instances) who needs scapegoats, and those scapegoats come in the form of OP and OP's children. Hubby is clearly in the FOG (Fear Obligation and Guilt) and may be narcissistic himself, and the other grandchildren are golden and probably the parents of those as well. Goes without saying that the husband's entire family sounds Clusters-Of-Bees-ish (aside the one SiL who let OP know about MiL's vile smacktalk).
Story 1:😢 He saw that message about the child in the grass and still didn't choose his kids?! There is no therapy that would fix this. All feeling I had for this man would die instantly.
Story 1 pre-update, MiL sounds like a narcissist, she hates you and your kids, but embraces the opportunity to make you the bad guy because she can't bully your kids in her own way
Post update, great news, but be wary, a tiger doesn't change it's stripes and neither do lemmings either, not without some sort of therapy
Story 1. NTA But Op has to take responsibility in this situation too she shouldn't have let the "grandmother" be around the kids he moment she realized "grandma" didn't like them. The dad and his mom are AHs
OP, most definitely IS the a-hole because she never should have allowed that bs in the first place. You can’t allow abuse for YEARS and then all of a sudden say, oh no, this is now negatively affecting my kids! 🙄😡
1) Wow it's sad grandma is awful towards OP's children, hurting them with favoritism toward the other children in the family. I think OP is right to protect her children from this nasty toxic environment. She is right to tell her husband either he chooses his kids or his mother. If he makes the wrong choice, OP's correct choice is divorce. It's good she has written proof of the harmful toxicity coming from grandma. NTA. Good for OP to want to protect her kids.
After update: Wow, grandma is awful and OP's husband is disgusting to think how his mother acts is excusable. I'm glad to hear her country does not have grandparents' rights and would take seriously the abuse. Her husband is a worthless POS unless he pulls his head out of his ass and decides to protect his children and put their, and his wife's best interests first.
After next update: I am so glad OP had someone in the family to share with her the nasty things grandma was spewing. It is good the husband spoke with his daughter and came around to seeing how harmful seeing the grandparents is. It's good he agreed to keep the kids away from the grandparents. Marriage counseling is a must.
2) I can see how their intrusiveness and comments are inappropriate, but OP needs to discuss this with his wife. It is OP's wife who needs to set boundaries and be the one to tell them to back off.
After comments: It is not ok if OP's wife does not see anything wrong with their attitude. If they can have a healthy relationship and not insult and disregard OP, then being additional loving people in their child's life would be a ok. It's good they talked and she came to realize the former partner's parents need some distance and boundaries.
After update: It sounds like this is working out well, the discussion with the unrelated, sort-of grandparents went well and they acknowledged their mistakes, took a step back and will be less intrusive and more considerate going forward. Sounds like a happy ending.
Story 1 Honestly I wouldn't let my kids near anyone in his family.....all the women were involved in those chats and not a one of them in thousands of texts told mom off for talking about children that way and the rest have watched her bully and verbally abuse them at family events and done nothing....they are all worthless pieces of crap.
It's good you're protecting your kids.
My grandmother playes favourites. She sent Christmas gifts to our cousins. But we got nothing not even Christmas cards (which she gave each with money inside of).
She remembered all their birthdays as well. But forgot ours. My birthday was new years day. And my brother's was a couple of days before hers.
I cried a lot. Why doesn't nana love us. We were well behaved and our cousins would run everywhere screaming and break stuff.
Protecting your kids is important.
And my mother went no contact on her mother. So your husband isn't being a good father.
Story 2 NTA! It is time for OP to have a sit down with the wife! It is past time to set boundaries in his home.
Story 1: NTA but op doesn’t need to post because she knows she isn’t the a hole but she needs divorce papers ready .
My mother and father Never protected me from anyone or anything. I moved out at 18 and never went back.
Story 1: The reason why the MIL wants to see her grandchildren because she "loooooves" them so much is because people like this have to have scapegoats witness treating the other golden grandchildren. I know, the mindset doesn't make sense to me, either, but people like this exist and they get some sort of twisted satisfaction in mistreating the scapegoat kids. Yes, it's sick.
Edit: listening to what the older brother said made it clear--OP's husband is the scapegoat in his family. The scapegoat's children become the next generation of scapegoats.
Story 1 OP will be in for a big surprise when mommy talks him into bringing the kids back.
You can tell the husband lowkey is a victim of his mom too. Bc what sane person would find this normal! He’s been conditioned to see this horrible behavior as okay.
Husband is desperate for his mother's approval. He's willing to sacrifice his wife and children in order to not have her nastiness aimed at him.
Spineless Husband: It never should’ve gotten to this stage.
They are CHILDREN. YOUR children. Shouldn’t you be standing up for them? When you first held your babies in your arms as newborns, you made a promise to them: I will love you, I will protect you and I will give you the best life possible.
The fact that your children are dreading going over because their grandmother treats them so badly should be a big red billboard that you should listen to.
OP, you’re NTA. Your husband and his mother on the other hand?
Story 1 they should consider no contact with the brother and his family to
My grandma hated me and only me out of all her grandkids. I never knew why.
My brother got away with everything he did but when I threw up from eating shrimp, she told the family I was pregnant. I was 14. First boyfriend, pregnant, also 14. She stole my money and clothes and screamed that they were hers.
She'd cook for herself, then get mad at me for refusing to wash the dishes.
Sorry but I can't disagree more with the statement of "ultimatums don't fix anything", they quite literally do.
story 1: the MIL hatres will never be "fixed", I'm with LG, I'm usually against ultimatums however in this scenario they are only needed but need to be reinforced; the MIL just want to hate on OP for some unknown reason.
the safety of the children come first, if OPs husband does not understand that just means he does not care.
It's not an unknown reason, Op and kids are a different race from MIL. I always find it suspect when the Ops go out of their way to not state the obvious and for whatever reason just gloss over that and make it seem like the bully has no twisted reason to do what they do. Doesn't make it acceptable, but it does make it understandable and lets us know that this won't be fixed with mediation or therapy.
6:05 I'm sorry but that commenter was just an idiot. Are you serious that he can't get barred from showing the kids to his mother saying you hate the children is literally f****** emotional abuse
I remember a story my mom told me that happened when I was young. Her father was physically and emotionally abusive, but by the time I was born, he was sickly, needed a cane, and didn't do much besides say some shitty crap in another language. My mom had already opted not to really teach me her native tongue mostly for that reason, but she didn't think her dad was still a danger. At least, until she caught him chasing me around with his cane. Mind you, I was little and not distressed, apparently thinking it was a game. But even though I wasn't hurt, my mom marched over to her mom and gave her an ultimatum: either daddy dearest keeps his paws and cane away from me, or she's never seeing them again. Never had any issues since then.
As an aside, it has long been known that ladies who have long necks are termed as beautiful, as they are compared to swans, with the gracefulness that a swan is obviously seen with. Those people who DON’T have longnecks, or whose necks are shorter, look very short and squat. So, Grandma, who is the real beauty in this family??!
Sounds like granddaughter is the swan and grandma is the toad (no offense to toads :)).
People treat your children EXACTLY the way they view the mother (or father).
You gotta stop saying you’re against ultimatums because you’re not. Dealbreakers are ultimatums. Almost every choice you make is an ultimatum it’s just not stated like one. If you hit me I walk is an ultimatum and a perfectly acceptable one. Cheat on me, treat my kids or me poorly, have certain abhorrent ideals or opinions, and I can’t be with you are all ultimatums that are 100% okay and fully supported by you. Like it’s just funny to me whenever you say that you don’t like ultimatums but then turn around and say dealbreakers are fine when they are literally the same exact thing, just stated differently.
Story 2: I understand the confusion about the kid. You let people into your house and let them talk like that about your kid, I'd second guess who the father really was myself. I didn't think the kid was someone else's, but I did think maybe there's a deeper reason the wife was allowing this, like maybe she was still stuck on the late husband.
I need to write this before I see the comments or the update on story 1.
My dad's mom hated me and my siblings, though that could be because we were so different from the other cousins, (autism in all three of us). Grandmother couldn't understand us, so she hated us.
I remember the last time I saw her, it was morning of either Christmas Eve or Christmas Day, and my dad came into the bedroom we were staying in at grandma's house, tell us that we need to pack everything up now. We didn't argue, and before I knew it, we were in the car going home early. I saw grandma watching us leave.
Years later, I learned what happened that day. You see, Grandmother hated my mom, and that visit was one of the worst visits we've had with her. Grandmother told my dad that is either her (his mom) or his wife and kids. No hesitation, not even a discussion with mom (his wife) about what he needs to do. We just told us to pack, we are leaving. And we did. Last time dad ever spoke to her.
Because of the standard my dad showed me, I believe that the husband is the biggest a$$h013 in this story. He never had his family's (wife and children) backs. He still sees his parents and siblings as his immediate family. When in reality, the moment he got married to his wife, she, and any children they have together, are his immediate family, while his parents and siblings became extended family. Even if he realizes what is going on, and try to change, his wife and children now know that they cannot trust him with their life.
Edit: honestly, brother-in-law was right. Husband was a "kitty". He had allowed disrespected to happened to his children, refused to listen to them and his wife, showed everyone that he doesn't have his wife's back. Of course he is a "kitty".
what kind of father lets people disrespect his kids ⁉️⁉️⁉️
shoulda nipped this in the bud a longass time ago
As the child who was mistreated or treated as less than by family members, protect your children until they are old enough to protect themselves
My grandmother is like this. She ignores me when my cousins are around, and then love bombs me when their not. To her, I'm just a backup plan. It's the same with her daughters. My mom, who she treated the same as me and her favourite child My aunt the mother of my 2 cousins. I have been pretty low contact with her since I lost my mom. Still, I c her more than my cousins and aunt who will go month and in my auts case years with sporadic contact only talking to her when they want money. My other grandmother had over 20 grandkids and didn't like all the spouses (with good reason), but she always loved and cared for the grandkids (despite some of them turning out like their toxic parents or looking like the bad spouses) because that's what a good grandmother does. She was the toughest lady I knew, and everyone loved her, but feared her wrath if you did rong. She once saw 2 kids throwing stones at swans in the park. She grabbed them by the ear and dragged them home to their parents, and told them what their children were doing. You do not mess with that wouman.
OP's husband needs to be a man and protect his children.
Wow, OP2's girlfriend is such a keeper! I unfortunately know SO MANY women that would have reamed OP, and unfairly demanded he get rid of the dog(not the dog's fault, he just hasn't been trained properly). But yeah, people were right, I also thought about what I would do in that situation, and I would also totally see it as an opportunity to upgrade some of my shoes, and wheedle out shoes that I do not like, that fit poorly, etc. I just hope OP gets his dog some professional training😁
Story 2: OP honestly did it right. Letting them have some kind of grandchild(even if it isn’t really their grandchild) but enforcing boundaries
Story 1: It's bizarre that OP's in-laws excuse the vile, hateful, malicious behavior of her MIL. It sounds like a family of questionable values. OP's right to be determined to remove her children from what is certainly emotional abuse, that will only harm them more as they age. As for her marriage, it sounds like at least belatedly, her husband understands the harm to his children coming from his own mother.
The BIL sounds like he's abusive too, to describe his own brother so rudely. More ugly verbal behavior.
It would be satisfying to let the community at large know that MIL is so deeply ugly to her own grandchildren and DIL, but perhaps that's not the consequence they want for the MIL.
Or OP could at least show her MIL that she's seen the cruel language she used to describe her grandchildren. I wonder what weird excuse the MIL would come up with to justify her words?
Op's husband has always been the scapegoat, for whatever reason, and for the family to acknowledge their shitty behavior would upset the family dynamic. Light needs to be shined (shone?) on this family.
I would make a FB post of thesis messages with a caption, "for those asking why I filed for divorce from this family."
I see divorce in their future.
One can only hope.
I protected my kids from my own mom, we were NC with her when they were little and LC when they were a bit older. Still those few times of contact, like milestone birthdays and holidays, my mom managed to say and do hurtful things. Now my kids are adults and are grateful I shielded them when they were vulnerable.
Interesting stories - glad for resolution of the issues.
As a kid who was hated in the family: protect your kids. My life is literally torture to this day because nobody protected me.
I honestly think people who say they're 'against ultimatums' are just plain stupid. No one is disputing that ultimatums are bad when you use them as a weapon, but if you have no better recourse and understand that those are your only options (and you're willing to accept either), then they're absolutely valid.
I wouldn't want to have anything to do with somebody that talks about ANY children that way. If you can say these abhorrent things about literal children, you are a horrible person with bad character. But if you say it about MY children, I would advise you to not come in front of my eyes ever again.
Story 1: OP needs to divorce her spineless, toxic, and selfish husband! OP is TA for not tolerating BS from her nightmare of a MIL! If OP is TA for being strong and maintaining boundaries; then I take that as a compliment!
First Story - I like that OP turned the situation around when talking to the brother-in-law. When folks won't see another side, turning it around on them and asking them how they would feel if the same situation was being done to them or their family, you get a very different reaction. Happy that OP's husband finally saw the light. I hope if MIL continues to be the victim, husband tells her why the children are not visiting. What a horrible woman..
Being married to a coward is very Wye opening
Last story, NTA, but there will be More Updates, to come. Op you don't get it, those people Won't let up, they're only Acquiescing op, for a "Lil Bit" and then it will go back to Full blown home invasion, and Take Over, with your "Wife" leading the Charge.
Op, your Wife needs therapy, and You should've Never Married this Widow, that Won't let Go of her Late Husband in Any(way), be Prepared for an Uphill War, because this is Not over. Good luck, NTA.