I think another big reason for the scarab damage upgrade (probably more important than the depots) is that with it scv's that are in the area of splash that does 50% damage will be one shot. (50% of 125 is 62.5 and scv hp is 60) There's no doubt this could contribute to a potentially huge amount more scv kills by reavers.
Biggest thing for me starting to watch more Artosis & tournaments then some StarCastTV & more about 4 years or so ago now was... nobody get's scarab damage. I couldn't believe it before most anyone even started doing it. I accepted that that's what people had come to realise wasn't good on reavers - as mostly it seemed only Snow used them for sufficient durations/on & off in a game. But it is probably the one thing I had thought - everybody has to have this one wrong (25% damage increase in an AoE) as a single use upgrade that doesn't increase Scarab cost, even when I was still essentially an only M.O.B.A. player (for that time). Also I've wondered for some time how much change it would have given the game if it increased/altered the hit-size of the scarab itself too. How the slightest change could change them almost completely.
@@justincronkright5025 the conventional thinking is this: it has to do with breakpoints and how reavers are used. primarily as part of shuttle harass, typically they are microed 1 or 2 at a time (but that doesnt change the # scarabs needed to kill targeted units or buildings assuming full damage hits, no duds). So lets take a goliath as an example, 125 hp, 1 armor, no dodge. 2 normal scarab shots to kill. 2 upgraded scarab shots to kill. tanks & turrets need 2. zlot, goon, and reavers, 2. the only thing with worthwhile breakpoint from direct damage is supply depot clusters take 4 shots in stead of 5. and bunkers need 3 instead of 4, but using a reaver alone to kill is so wasteful like killing a pylon, or attacking a nexus. so in essence, yes, you deal 25% more damage, but since you haven't lessened number of scarab shots necessary to kill a targeted unit, you have not reduced scarab cost to kill. reavers can be used in large battles, but only in PvP are they produced for that, for PvT you get it to shuttle harass their base first, then once the have thick turret defense, if any survived, they switch role to pick off army fringes as they push. zerg units die to 1 direct scarab hit except lurker, still needs 2 scarabs upgrade or not. sorry for long answer, but I thought itd be good to give a comprehensive answer to differentiate from moba thinking where damage increase means bigger last hit window 25% is huge. in most cases as currently used, the bonus scarab damage gets wasted in overkill.
@@justincronkright5025 The biggest hindrance is just how long it takes to upgrade it. In matchups where reavers have their time, but get pushed out by other tech (storm drops, arbiters or carriers vs T and just storm in general vs P) having an upgrade that won't hit until nearly 3 minutes after your first reaver pops (105 seconds for shuttle speed, then 105 seconds for reaver damage for 210 seconds compared to 44 seconds of reaver build time, all on fastest) really reduces the use you get out of it. You almost need to go slow shuttle to have reaver damage to not just be a late game upgrade you get because it might help out a bit. 200/200 is also pretty expensive when the deciding factor for whether your reaver kills a bunch of SCVs is whether your shot completely duds or actually goes off. It's for that reason that the upgrade buffing the splash radius would probably just make them a bit better in PvZ and have a rather small impact on midgame PvP. People get scarab damage much more in lategame PvZ at least, where reavers have continuous use due to dark swarm's power. My personal annoyance is how rarely protoss gets shield upgrades, specifically in PvZ where plague is the endgame tech that's going to entirely negate armor for a significant number of units.
Really amazing stuff indeed. I couldn't pick a winner for the majority of the game. In fact, Artosis even changed his casting a little during the midgame.
MC didn't get air armor for his observers and shuttles, he got it for carriers. He didn't end up making any carriers, but he thought about it. Before getting +1 armor, he got +1 air weapons. He couldn't get +2 weapons until he built the Fleet Beacon, which is the only reason to get air armor there. You can see he also got a second forge just for shields, which you normally only do against Terran if you are going for carriers. Then again, MC is a SC2 player, so maybe he just gets every upgrade by default.
Yeah it's interesting he went arbiter instead of carrier after those upgrades. Maybe he'd only go carrier if he had a stronger advantage? Been a while since I've seen arbiters in PvZ
@@eMbry00s ya, arbiters don't have 100% utility in PvZ, since overlords have detect and are abundant, nor do they have units like tanks that are backbreaking to lose in stasis to be killed off later, and zerg mobility helps reduce uncontested damage window from recalls. arbiter extremely vulnerable to scourge, dragoons are terrible at anti muta and scourge ,because they are both "small" flying units, so they take 1/2 damage per shot. so that's why you'll rarely see late game airtoss. while cumulative cost of scourge alone would be high, they are effectively unstoppable. carriers become unusable when interceptors get plagued (just to finish off No Capital Ships in PvZ) Arbiter is not so strange, because it compliments the current army and preserves army tempo, whereas carrier switch is drastic tempo change switching gateway units from main force to supporting force. It would have given Royal the time to stabilize his econ and rebuild his army to dangerous mass again. He could tell he was breaking down royal when terran army became vulture heavy, and tank count continually reset.
What a great game from both players. Huge drop from MC which made him had some advantage throughout the entire game. Royal, he also had a strong defensive opening. If he could pull out the Nexus, it would be another story from him. Very exciting and enjoying match up. Thank you Artosis! We are learning every time he is explaining how to play better StarCraft. It was awesome!
Now that's a game! I honestly enjoyed this much more than the Rain - Calm games recently. This game was much more back and forth, but, most importantly, I didn't saw/feel any climb-to-the-wall-and-cringe moments (like big mistakes or oversights) in this game.
Another idea for a good game to cast would be on a huge island map! Maybe a PvP or a TvT would be very nice or a TvZ as well. The map has to be huge just to force them to go aerial a bit more… would be sweet!
What happened with MC's units at Royal's third around 13:30? An attempted zealot run-by? Or a misclick around 13:19 when reinforcing the army in the center of the map?
1. Art style, graphics, and speed of battles makes it easier to see whats going on 2. Battles are longer, take place over a larger area, and there are more of them
For me I think it's the slower pace; it's much more readable from a spectator's point of view, and the strategies develop over a longer period of time. I also feel like there is more diversity of strategies, but I haven't been keeping up with SC2 meta outside of the GSL for the past couple years.
Less hard counters, and the game is so impossible to be played perfectly (both mechanically and in countering what the opponent does) that it allows more player styles to emerge, purely from what everybody prioritises.
you can tell Royal was just sparring because he attacked up to the main/2nd long after they were depleted when he easily could have KO'd MC by blasting the left side
Instead of blindly saying that Royal will roll him, I slap myself for a second and think twice before I speak about our protoss emperor MC so I dont have to end up like Apollo 🤣 in that one interview that legends will remember. (Apollo predicted someone else to win and MC not only won but said Apollo is a disgrace 😂 and ended his career 🤣)
Royal almost took the game due to some insanely cost efficient exchanges. MC was tossing expensive energized HTs and reavers around like they were cheap zealots. I guess MC felt his eco was so far ahead due to some great drop plays, but if Royal had instead taken out the 10 and 11 oclock expansions and parked his tanks, instead of pushing main, MC may have lost. I don’t think Royal had any business getting that close to a victory.
Yeah I think MC was just trying to be in so many places at once he wasn't controlling quite optimally. A few miss timed flanks etc. He did keep that macro up which probably ended up saving the day.
I think I prefer the sound mixing on the NASL vods- the game music and sound effects come through a bit louder and crisper, still in harmony with the caster voices. If you could do the same with these I’d appreciate it! Happy to go with consensus though on what’s better
Surprised that MC chose to return playing SCBW instead of SC2 given his success with SC2. This just goes to show that the game will be dead soon with SCBW still sticking around.
bit disappointed that there is VERY little BC or carrier play in these casts ... and zerg guardian or devourer.. are these even used? and yea they should have added at least one more robounit with broodwar .. cause most of of the time if its robo it´s either reaver harass or observer support ... not really much choice there as protoss compared to what terran and zerg have ... this is where starcraft 2 did better with general unitpool variety ... one thing i wonder ... is it just me or are default tanks quite strong compared to their SC2 counterpart?
Someone buy this guy an electric blanket
He's always got chills
not that kinda chills lol
@@greenwave819 no way
I mean he's in canada tho ..
he sounds so dumb when he says he has chills.
It's all the DRYgoons.
I think another big reason for the scarab damage upgrade (probably more important than the depots) is that with it scv's that are in the area of splash that does 50% damage will be one shot. (50% of 125 is 62.5 and scv hp is 60)
There's no doubt this could contribute to a potentially huge amount more scv kills by reavers.
Biggest thing for me starting to watch more Artosis & tournaments then some StarCastTV & more about 4 years or so ago now was... nobody get's scarab damage. I couldn't believe it before most anyone even started doing it. I accepted that that's what people had come to realise wasn't good on reavers - as mostly it seemed only Snow used them for sufficient durations/on & off in a game. But it is probably the one thing I had thought - everybody has to have this one wrong (25% damage increase in an AoE) as a single use upgrade that doesn't increase Scarab cost, even when I was still essentially an only M.O.B.A. player (for that time).
Also I've wondered for some time how much change it would have given the game if it increased/altered the hit-size of the scarab itself too. How the slightest change could change them almost completely.
@@justincronkright5025 the conventional thinking is this: it has to do with breakpoints and how reavers are used. primarily as part of shuttle harass, typically they are microed 1 or 2 at a time (but that doesnt change the # scarabs needed to kill targeted units or buildings assuming full damage hits, no duds). So lets take a goliath as an example, 125 hp, 1 armor, no dodge. 2 normal scarab shots to kill. 2 upgraded scarab shots to kill. tanks & turrets need 2. zlot, goon, and reavers, 2. the only thing with worthwhile breakpoint from direct damage is supply depot clusters take 4 shots in stead of 5. and bunkers need 3 instead of 4, but using a reaver alone to kill is so wasteful like killing a pylon, or attacking a nexus. so in essence, yes, you deal 25% more damage, but since you haven't lessened number of scarab shots necessary to kill a targeted unit, you have not reduced scarab cost to kill. reavers can be used in large battles, but only in PvP are they produced for that, for PvT you get it to shuttle harass their base first, then once the have thick turret defense, if any survived, they switch role to pick off army fringes as they push. zerg units die to 1 direct scarab hit except lurker, still needs 2 scarabs upgrade or not.
sorry for long answer, but I thought itd be good to give a comprehensive answer to differentiate from moba thinking where damage increase means bigger last hit window 25% is huge. in most cases as currently used, the bonus scarab damage gets wasted in overkill.
@@justincronkright5025 The biggest hindrance is just how long it takes to upgrade it. In matchups where reavers have their time, but get pushed out by other tech (storm drops, arbiters or carriers vs T and just storm in general vs P) having an upgrade that won't hit until nearly 3 minutes after your first reaver pops (105 seconds for shuttle speed, then 105 seconds for reaver damage for 210 seconds compared to 44 seconds of reaver build time, all on fastest) really reduces the use you get out of it. You almost need to go slow shuttle to have reaver damage to not just be a late game upgrade you get because it might help out a bit. 200/200 is also pretty expensive when the deciding factor for whether your reaver kills a bunch of SCVs is whether your shot completely duds or actually goes off. It's for that reason that the upgrade buffing the splash radius would probably just make them a bit better in PvZ and have a rather small impact on midgame PvP.
People get scarab damage much more in lategame PvZ at least, where reavers have continuous use due to dark swarm's power.
My personal annoyance is how rarely protoss gets shield upgrades, specifically in PvZ where plague is the endgame tech that's going to entirely negate armor for a significant number of units.
@@SquallLionhart409 why sc1 protoss hardly ever upgrades shield armor is that shield received 100% damage from any types of attack.
Mom says it's my turn to post the spoiler blocker!
And I too approved that you should be the spoiler blocker on this video
How is Tasteless doing?
IDK how the comment section figured it out so consistently but you guys are the MVP's on mobile. Thank you!!!
Tell her to make me a Totinos!
your strategy breakdowns really level up your casts
"I want to remind everyone about MC."
The BossToss. The legend. He's great.
looked good for a sparring sesh
he was relentless, and never let Royal max out
love the casts been started watching for brood war 3 months now never played but really enjoy how you describe the game
Best esport in the world!
Brood War is the best
Wow, great game by both players! Such a good back and forth. Thank you for uploading.
Really amazing stuff indeed. I couldn't pick a winner for the majority of the game. In fact, Artosis even changed his casting a little during the midgame.
MC didn't get air armor for his observers and shuttles, he got it for carriers. He didn't end up making any carriers, but he thought about it. Before getting +1 armor, he got +1 air weapons. He couldn't get +2 weapons until he built the Fleet Beacon, which is the only reason to get air armor there. You can see he also got a second forge just for shields, which you normally only do against Terran if you are going for carriers.
Then again, MC is a SC2 player, so maybe he just gets every upgrade by default.
Nah, he definitely was willing to switch to carriers if Royal dealt too good with the shuttles!
Yeah it's interesting he went arbiter instead of carrier after those upgrades. Maybe he'd only go carrier if he had a stronger advantage?
Been a while since I've seen arbiters in PvZ
@@eMbry00s ya, arbiters don't have 100% utility in PvZ, since overlords have detect and are abundant, nor do they have units like tanks that are backbreaking to lose in stasis to be killed off later, and zerg mobility helps reduce uncontested damage window from recalls. arbiter extremely vulnerable to scourge, dragoons are terrible at anti muta and scourge ,because they are both "small" flying units, so they take 1/2 damage per shot. so that's why you'll rarely see late game airtoss. while cumulative cost of scourge alone would be high, they are effectively unstoppable. carriers become unusable when interceptors get plagued (just to finish off No Capital Ships in PvZ)
Arbiter is not so strange, because it compliments the current army and preserves army tempo, whereas carrier switch is drastic tempo change switching gateway units from main force to supporting force. It would have given Royal the time to stabilize his econ and rebuild his army to dangerous mass again. He could tell he was breaking down royal when terran army became vulture heavy, and tank count continually reset.
One of the best, most entertaining and informative matches casted. And of your best cast, if I dare say so. Thank you!
Amazing to see MC playing here. I hope we see more soon
Great cast! Thanks for the good times Artosis.
What a great freakin game. Love these casts and i havent played the game in 20 years
I downloaded BW remastered and tried to play campaigns for a bit and thought there's no point going on the ladder to be slaughtered 😂
18:28 7 Base Terran vs 7 Base Protoss is winnable for Artossis. You have a chace!
Really enjoying these BW casts artosis, great work and great game selection coming out
MC what a god. Let's hope we see this guy in ASL soon
What a great game from both players. Huge drop from MC which made him had some advantage throughout the entire game. Royal, he also had a strong defensive opening. If he could pull out the Nexus, it would be another story from him. Very exciting and enjoying match up. Thank you Artosis! We are learning every time he is explaining how to play better StarCraft. It was awesome!
Oh i didn't know MC was playing BW! I fell in love with his playstyle when he was dominating SC2 GSL in the early 2010s. Solid job casting Arty!
That was nice to watch. Faith in long game reaver skirmishes with a huge bank at 200 vs 200 (with shuttle armor).
i always enjoyed MC's game in sc2 on how cerebral he plays. not the best controls but his high level plans are always on point. and it shows here.
Wow that was an incredible back and forth game of StarCraft
Now that's a game! I honestly enjoyed this much more than the Rain - Calm games recently. This game was much more back and forth, but, most importantly, I didn't saw/feel any climb-to-the-wall-and-cringe moments (like big mistakes or oversights) in this game.
Another idea for a good game to cast would be on a huge island map! Maybe a PvP or a TvT would be very nice or a TvZ as well. The map has to be huge just to force them to go aerial a bit more… would be sweet!
It sounds good on paper but Protoss crushes air to air...
@@draganpetev4677 well let’s see it then 🤷♂️
Currently that map doesn't exist on the ladder or major tournaments, which is the source of these videos.
My goodness what a game!! And I love Protoss Shuttle play vs Terran
wow. wow. wow. That was such an incredibly well played game.
In the end Terran made a drive-by with the Vultures and the Protoss made few fly-by with his shuttles.
do zergs do float-by?
Great game and great cast.
Excellent cast Arty!
That was a fantastic game! Highly recommend
8:15 Wow! Sick ! I never knew that !
MC Is one of my fav players from sc2. He's fun and one of the only guys back then who actually hard personality
and he sings like an angel
The inability to kill the Nexus’ on the main push by Terran was infuriating.
I thought that push on MC's main was a done deal haha
That was action packed!
Such a close game till the very end.
Anyone remember when MC game on stage as the undertaker lol. Was amazing
Boss Toss looking relentless there.
That tank stop spamming, lil tricks, i love that about Brood War ♥
Protoss onslaught! Great non stop reinforcements
MC 's control is incredible
toast ending up saying the opposite of what he means
never change
Dxracer
What happened with MC's units at Royal's third around 13:30? An attempted zealot run-by? Or a misclick around 13:19 when reinforcing the army in the center of the map?
Good game!
why is SC1 such a more fun game to spectate than SC2
1. Art style, graphics, and speed of battles makes it easier to see whats going on
2. Battles are longer, take place over a larger area, and there are more of them
For me I think it's the slower pace; it's much more readable from a spectator's point of view, and the strategies develop over a longer period of time. I also feel like there is more diversity of strategies, but I haven't been keeping up with SC2 meta outside of the GSL for the past couple years.
Because there is only one StarCraft.
Much cleaner graphics in BW.
Less hard counters, and the game is so impossible to be played perfectly (both mechanically and in countering what the opponent does) that it allows more player styles to emerge, purely from what everybody prioritises.
you can tell Royal was just sparring because he attacked up to the main/2nd long after they were depleted when he easily could have KO'd MC by blasting the left side
What an AMAZING game~.
Min chul is back?!
Do an overlay at the top in the stats bar. So the names you keep using match what is written up there.
What a game that was
What a game!!
wow very impressive from MC
Amazing game
Can't believe royal didn't get that top base. Even a couple of vultures would have done it.
Instead of blindly saying that Royal will roll him, I slap myself for a second and think twice before I speak about our protoss emperor MC so I dont have to end up like Apollo 🤣 in that one interview that legends will remember.
(Apollo predicted someone else to win and MC not only won but said Apollo is a disgrace 😂 and ended his career 🤣)
How long until Idra returns to BW?
I feel like he could have made more Wraiths instead of all the Vessels and stopped some of those drops as well as sniping that 1 hp Nexus
Fantastic game 😊😊
MC MC MC MC MC MC MC MC MC MC MC best showman in the league
Two cheesers so exciting
Do Terran EVER win against Protoss?
Wow really impressive from MC side to win this game in the end. Its really hard to win with mass shuttles especially on this map. Great game
The Protoss won ??? I want my money back !!!
epic game
honestly, mc looking pretty gud
Cool Beans
Why did Terran resign? He still has 2 mining bases and more SCVs than the Protoss. He can turtle and win the game.
He didn’t have enough money to max out more than once and failed to get his next base
Cant turtle when protoss have all the bases
Protoss outplayed him hardcore.
Royal almost took the game due to some insanely cost efficient exchanges. MC was tossing expensive energized HTs and reavers around like they were cheap zealots. I guess MC felt his eco was so far ahead due to some great drop plays, but if Royal had instead taken out the 10 and 11 oclock expansions and parked his tanks, instead of pushing main, MC may have lost. I don’t think Royal had any business getting that close to a victory.
Yeah I think MC was just trying to be in so many places at once he wasn't controlling quite optimally.
A few miss timed flanks etc.
He did keep that macro up which probably ended up saving the day.
I think I prefer the sound mixing on the NASL vods- the game music and sound effects come through a bit louder and crisper, still in harmony with the caster voices. If you could do the same with these I’d appreciate it! Happy to go with consensus though on what’s better
terran looking incredibly deddered
ye he ded
Terran over-extended when he pushed up to the top. Very good job by the terran player though, it was close.
wow so close
Yeah I really don't care that much when you miss one drop :)
I do, but in this case it was ok. It was like the 17th drop, and it had a pretty minor impact.
MC used sc2 meta, macro hard, keep up high pressure attacks, late game non-stop attacks.
Stop! Stop, stop, stp, sp, sp, sp, sp. 😹
BOSS TOSS
Gg
MC 🐐
Surprised that MC chose to return playing SCBW instead of SC2 given his success with SC2. This just goes to show that the game will be dead soon with SCBW still sticking around.
bit disappointed that there is VERY little BC or carrier play in these casts ... and zerg guardian or devourer.. are these even used?
and yea they should have added at least one more robounit with broodwar .. cause most of of the time if its robo it´s either reaver harass or observer support ... not really much choice there as protoss compared to what terran and zerg have ... this is where starcraft 2 did better with general unitpool variety ...
one thing i wonder ... is it just me or are default tanks quite strong compared to their SC2 counterpart?
Sorry Arty, I had to turn this one off, because your scrolling all over the place while zoomed in made me sick
: )
SC2 is like a handicapped league, hardly praise-worthy.
tesagi
3rd
EZ Terran
Terran are so boring in TvP
Protoss wins.
You got to be Flash to use vultures to defeat an OSL champion.