WHY LION EL'JONSON IS THE GREATEST PRIMARCH!
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Hey everyone Rho here! Today we continue our series pitching every Primarch to be the greatest... with Lion El'Jonson! Primarch of the Dark Angels.
General Spoiler Warning to begin as today we will be referencing events from across the Warhammer 40,000 Universe. So you have been warned!
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"The Lion never spoke of [the Wulfen]. Never. He could have told the Imperium of our sickness and made it worse for me, but even in his anger he said nothing. He could keep a secret. He saw our imperfection, and he suffered it to remain, and that was the heart of his nobility. In the end, then, he truly was better than us. The archetype of Legions, the First of all."
- Leman Russ
What book is this from?
@@Ally.Cat.252 Leman Russ: The Great Wolf
@@Cadmus_of_the_Knight_Seekers Thankyou
The quote speaks really well of Russ as well. At the beginning of the heresy Russ is more or less an arrogant blowhard, by the end he's become so much wiser and insightful.
He begins like a young "Thor", and grows into a more "Odin" like figure, which I think is very cool.
@@sarnicholas4053I wanna know what excuses he is gonna use when facing magnus for f*#cking his legion
Loyalty is its own reward.
For the Lion!
For the Emperor!
This is just fact.
For the Lion!
For the Emperor!
The Lions insane resistance and fortitude also shows when he does a mental "no you" on the krave. The krave that a single individual of, can mind control millions from light years away.
The Lion was like “ I’m not locked in here with you, you’re locked in here with ME.”
@@Chris-wn3vrand then he proceeded to mind rape that Khrave into oblivion after he got all the infomations he needed about the Khrave and their intentions/positions/plans. Lion is far above his brothers in so many ways.
I think that's where The Lion said "I am the Emperor's Angel of Darkness"...
Finally he makes the correct video title
Facts 😂
Lion El'Jonson is a weird way to spell Vulcan, that's all im saying
Facts. Horus was scared of the lion. That is why he send him far away. Knowing that once the heresy started it wouldnt stop the lion but slow him down and he was the only one. That Horus was actually worried about.
Gulliman yeah but Lorgar and Angron already had beef with him and Horus knew that Gulliman would be halted but with the Lion it was different. He sent Night Lords to there deaths
He knew the Night Lords would only delay the Lion
Theory: The Lion was kept from the position of War Master because the Emperor expected the gods of Chaos to make a move. He offered up Horus as a tempting and obvious target for their plans, all the while keeping the ultimate answer to Horus, the Lion, in his back pocket.
I don't believe the Emperor's grand plan is complete. These primarchs have yet to fulfill their ultimate role in the cosmic game. Perhaps knowing some of his sons could and would turn to Chaos places them deep in the enemy camp, should they be redeemed? Think of it this way: Should the traitor sons redeem themselves or turn on their Chaos masters, the Emperor would have primarchs to defend both real space and warp space; total coverage.
The emperor knew whoever was warmaster would eventually fall or at least had a large chance of turning . He didn’t want the dark angels who at the time were one of if not the largest legions with the hexagramoton and vaults of dark age weapons with men of iron . He don’t want that in the side of the traitors
Or simply the Emperor knew that Lion would accept not being named War Master without that having negative effect, as he did, Horus wouldn't.
@@RaimoKangasniemi+ If he knew that putting a "warmaster" in charge would create such a mess (and ruin his dreams) I am not sure that appointing one was a good decision 😅
If he knew just put lorgar the loser so that he can be easily killed or keep the power from terra idk...
This doesn't make any sense.
@@GCarbon0197 Appointing a War Master was not a good decision, but Horus who had been on his side the longest and as widely liked by his brothers, would have been pretty hard to pass and it would be only superhuman for him to feel slighted and develop a grudge.
I thought the emperor forsaw that the house heresy and that half his sons would fall to chaos. I also thought he knew when picking horus for Warminster exactly how the chips would fall with each primarch on each side except the Khan?
the lion wasn’t told the true nature of chaos he experienced it on Caliban he was the one primarch exposed from the very start. Curze and Angron were exposed to the depravity of man but the Lion ? he was left to the mercies of a tainted Caliban.
You don't need to go further. He IS the greatest. For the Lion!
Loyalty is its own reward! FOR THE LION!!!
For The EMPEROR!
Truth has been spoken. Lion isn't a contender for the best, he is. His Legion lead the Great Crusade, it was then redirected to fight psychic monstrositicies that are as old as the galaxy. None but the best would do.
In my opinion, Johnson and Sanguinius are the top contenders for the title. Dorn is the Praetorian, and accomplished a lot, but all around greatest, Johnson or Sanguinius.
I’m just patiently waiting for the Khan to get the spotlight he deserves
"Fulgrim"I hear he does weird things to his warriors"
The fact that he knows his own strength and doesn't overreach is one of my favourite parts of the Kahn. Plus obviously his one liners
@@winstonstowers9121 khan is the only one that has common sense
"A price had to be paid for his inclination to freedom; for skirting along the edges of communication."
He is the mold upon which all other primarchs were based upon.
The Original Warmaster of the Imperium
Yes, Lion El'Jonson is the prototype for the primarchs, but remember that prototypes are never perfect or the best.
Edited to correct a spelling mistake.
Ahh, the prototype. That makes sense and explains all the bugs on launch
@@mistercmartinNot simply a prototype, but a perfect creation, and probably the best warrior/general overall. His only real problem was his average social skills, which he did compensate for with exceptional military leadership and being a pure force of inspiration for his warriors.
@@mistercmartinAt Lockheed Martin’s our prototype JLTV was 3 million while the more finished were 350k. That 3 million one was a whole lot more advanced.
I'd say the Lion is Roboute's opposite. Not in the sense of being Gulliman's evil side but that the Lion is a warrior first and a General second while Roboute is a General/Administrator first and a Warrior Second.
Just started the Lion: son of the forist again. Best return so far in my opinion.
It was one of two returns so far 😂 had a 50/50 chance
@@iangreenwood3870 traders I believe makes 5
@@iangreenwood3870 there's 5 who is better. I count the traitors
The last fight with Kurze happened in pitch black too... So fot context, he beats Konrad Kurze, a Primarch who can turn invisible, in pitch black...
... if its pitch black the invisibility doesnt factor in
@@davidburnett5049 The Primarchs have better vision in the dark. So Konrad being able to turn invisible would probably trick all of the other Primarchs.
@@BM-wf9uf i havent read the scene. If there is no light there can be no traditional sight. So, idk. But dark would advantagr lion specifically because invisibilty doesnt need darkness. It levels the playing field, as the saying goes.
The prototype for all the others...imitated but never replicated....the first and best...
Dark Angels meanwhile: Ahh define Loyal
First Legion, Best Legion.
loyalty, is it's own reward
To quote a great mind from another universe, "Wars not make one great.” - Yoda
maaaaan, don't you know the entire Yoda species serve the Lion and ONLY the Lion?! Because he IS the best Primarch!
I really need more Lion books and short stories. I need to see Roboute Guilliman and the Lion reunion. to see the lion talk to the Emperor and I my hope is he gets a quest to find the other primarchs.
He has my vote; he needs to be in the conversation for sure at the very least. I've always found that he just pops off the page whenever he shows up in a book and I'm quite intrigued at how he's adapting to the current setting. Whatever is coming down the line, I suspect he's going to be a marquis player in the narrative going forward.
Yes, The Flaws for each Primarch are serious and ties them to Humanity. Part of their Greatness is the recognition of those flaws and addressing them; Lion using Luthor to talk and persuade people to follow him on the crusade against the Beasts of Caliban. I've not seen anything quite yet where Lion has learned from that mistake and has improved his own ability to interact with humans and other Primarchs/Space Marines not of his genetic lineage. He's still an awesome beast of a Primarch but did he learn anything while taking his dirt nap? Did/Do the Watchers help?
Have you read sons of the forest yet? If not I seriously recommend. The Lion is back and better than ever, all his strength and ferocity but tempered with age and by the humbling of the Horus heresy. It’s nice to see him return from being a conqueror to being a guardian of humanity.
Based and True.
This Post has been fact-checked by the Interrogator Chaplains of the First Legion.
Rho, like you I am a deep appreciator of the Vylka Fenryka. But even I have to accept that The Lion may well be the greatest, the original and the best primarch of them all. He stands apart from any others, and deliberately so. He is deliberately made to be above and beyond any of them … and he knew it.
The Lion is the first. All other primarchs are just variations on his template.
You cant bring up Diamat without what happens right after claiming those seige guns
Oh all I’m here for this praising of the true war master, daddy Lion El’Jonson!!!❤ if ykyk
G-Man "The Lion, the Lion comes"
-unremembered empire
even he was in awe on seeing his brother, and did not think he could have stopped the hit from the jarl of the space wolves
he broke the fate weaver
Big-E trusted him with weapons banned from all others... like shackled Men of iron, and anti warp bullets
ye he is the greatest tactician and probably in the top 3 fighter
BUT his social ineptitude almost cost the war on Terra... so not the best
People: Why do you like the Lion so much?
Me: He’s the ultimate failsafe for when things go off the rails or Primarchs and their Legions need to be dealt with (Russ cuts the head off the snake, the Lion makes sure there is nothing left).
Lion is really the greatest. Loyal. Alive. Savage fighter. Smart politician and administrator.
I never paid much attention to him but then I read Son of the Forest and he became my top 5 primarchs ever.
He awakes and immediately figures out there is a problem and decides humanity needs saving. All alone. No cellphone to check his news feed. Just wakes up in a forest, warp walks into another forest and starts wrecking chaos.
If the Lion was present at the Seige, it would have gone very differently.
It certainly would. Question is only, what was the better choice. Devastating the traitors at their home or on Terra.
Since him being present on Terra mean, he couldn't have done, what he did.
And enabeling Sanguinius to get to Terra, was certainly a good choice.
Tbh if the lion was at terra it would straight up change pertys and horuses plans. Like …. “That’s Big BRO”
@@JD-td6oh it wouldn’t have changed anything.
Imperial fists, The blood Angel’s (cause sanguinuis and the black rage) and ultramarines were the main loyalist forces. They were the most important. Replacing them with any legion doesn’t work.
Ultramarines created the time constraint. Imperial fists did everything… and the blood angels were the blood angels and they had Sanguinius.
Dark Angels were not as and would not be as important even if they were present in place of the blood angels.
They wouldn’t work in place of the imperial fists… siege would have been completely lost without them. Lion is not Dorn… no where close. He strategical prowess is not comparable to him in any way.
As for the blood angels, they held the loyalists together. Sanguinius was a beacon of hope. Lion could never be that.
And the khan? I personally think khan is better than the Lion in this situation. Khan is no less strategically capable and is more trustworthy
@@IOX-x1r brother. The ultramarines wrent at the siege of terra. The question was if the da were at the siege. It wouldve changed alot.
@@JD-td6oh when did I say that they were? I addressed the fact that dark angels and Lion specifically wouldn’t have been a better replacement for blood angels or the imperial fists. Both of this legions were much better suited to defend Terra.
Ultramarines weren’t at the siege … yet they were the largest threat to the siege. They created the time constraint. If they arrived, the siege would be a loss. Ultramarines in place of the white scars would definitely be better suited, since the white scars don’t specialize in defense.
The dark Angels? Similarly to the scars, defense is not their strong suit and they are VERY difficult to work with. Meaning they would not be better suited then the ultramarines to be at terra in place of the white scars. And I would argue that white scars and the khan would always be better suited to defend Terra then the Lion… since, the Lion is VERY arrogant, secretive and overall difficult to work with.
In short, the Lion and his legion being at Terra in place of any of the 3 main legions defending Terra would make the defenses worse.
He is the template for all other primarchs. He is the Emperor's first born son
His Primarch novel showed how much of an absolute beast he was in all aspects.
I just love how my favourite 40k youtubers have the exact same #1 & #2 favorite primarchs (primarchs may swap spots, occasionally but typically them 2 as top.
Shout out to wolf lord Rho & the Remembrancer... For Russ! For the Khagan! For the Emperor!!!
The so called Flawed Knight has the greatest story of redemption. For all the mistakes and confusion of the past, his heart, courage and prowess has remained balanced and true. I have no doubt that the Lion was and still is the Greatest Primarch 10,000 years later, mature now and tempered with wisdom.
Another reason why he and his Legion are the greatest is the fact that the Emperor entrusted them with stockpiles of DAOT weapons.
Heck, he gave them the Excindio. The amount of trust you would need to have for someone to entrust them with something like those should speak volumes.
Loyalty is its own reward. For. The. Lion.
Finally a true statement! All hail the Lion of Caliban and the Emperor of Man!
Has he met Robute yet ????
Nope he has not really had any lore progression since his novel son of the forest which is quite odd
The story will go forward in another 5 years xD
It's bizarre especially considering that author's put out two other books since then. So I doubt it's a hold up there.
My guess is that they're trying to ensure that whatever they do with the Lion in The Scouring series (if we ever get that) will align with what they're doing with the Lion moving forward in the 41st millennium
@@2012sonoraHe'll not really be able to do much in the scouring.
Lore as it is now, he'll return to Caliban and take a big nap after his disagreement with Luther takes a physical turn.
My personal criteria for "The Greatest":
-Fighting Prowess
-Strategic Acumen
-Relationship with Brothers
-Relationship with the Emperor
-Relationship with Sons
-Relationship with Humans
Sanguinius:
-The mightiest and the fastest primearch, as well as possibly the most skilled being in the whole galaxy, capable of delivering blows that would kill primearchs one after the other, while exhausted from the siege, suffering from hundreds of fresh wounds, including a fatal one… and apparently this is Sanguinius holding back. This is all said by Horus at his chaos peak(no more credible source in this context).
- Not the greatest strategist, but is certainly up there. Afterall, he was responsible for organizing and commanding the Beta Garmen defense during the siege. Tho he was outsmarted, most primearchs would not have been able to do the same. His foresight also gives him a huge edge in strategy.
-He was loved by almost all his brothers. Definitely the most respected and loved primearch. I don’t think there was a single primearch that genuinely hated him. Even Konrad and Angron had respect or at least acknowledgement of him. Konrad literally called him perfect and sought him out across the galaxy just to talk to him, while Angron’s anger and pain was soothed while in the presence of the Angel.
-According to Horus, Sanguinius was the FAVORITE son. Even if his relationship with emps wasn’t as involved as other primearchs. But the emps definitely treated Sanguinius with more honesty due to sangi’s foresight.
-Had the best relationship with his sons. Definitely the best among his brothers. He loved them all and mourned all their deaths. He was willing to sacrifice himself to the rage fire to cure the red thirst.
-Didn’t look down on humans and felt compassion for them all. Vulkan was probably nicer and more caring, but Sanguinius was more respectful. Vulkan saw humans as beings to be protected. (At least until the siege).
While Sanguinius treated them the same as his sons, giving them the same respect and dignity.
@@IOX-x1r
I'll preface this by saying Sanguinius is my favorite primarch (big surprise with my pfp):
The mightiest were Vulkan and Ferrus, Sanguinius comes at number 3. The fastest were Fulgrim and Jaghatai, Sang is again number 3. The most skilled are Lion and peak Fulgrim(before chaos ruined him), again Sang number 3. He isn't the best anywhere, but he is top 3 EVERYWHERE which makes him a monster. The only one I'd argue could beat him was Lion due to his own skill, impressive physical stats (surprised Curze with speed, surprised Russ with strength) and stellar primarch fight record, but even then it's a toss up. But Lion himself is a force to be reckoned with and considered the best primarch duelist for a reason.
-Strategically Lion was unmatched, literally never lost a battle, and was able to overtake Guilliman and Horus in compliances despite joining the Crusade much later. In the 40th millennium he is still doing insane things like freeing an entire planet from a chaos warband with a single Astartes and a bunch of ragtag survivors.
-Failed here catastrophically, basically the only one I heard he was even somewhat close with was Dorn, and even their relationship started extremely rocky.
-Probably the most trusted of all primarchs, the Emperor entrusted him and him alone with Dark Age superweapons and even AI and considered him his most reliable son. Lion: "Loyalty is its own reward", enough said. A relationship of trust, loyalty and dependability between a father and his firstborn.
-Another catastrophic failure, don't even need to elaborate. Thankfully, he is trying to do better in the 40th millennium.
-Lion always considered it his responsibility to protect humanity by "hunting the things that prey on it in the dark", and he does care. However, his cold demeanor and his brutal pragmatism which sees him willing to destroy entire planets with no hesitation (something even Perturabo, Curze and Angron hesitated at) if he judges it the optimal path to victory make him seem monstrous. Again, trying to do better these days
So yeah, by these criteria Sang takes it comfortably.
@@Ralldoron Brother, if you've finished the Siege of Terra books you'll struggle to say that the Lion is Sanguinius' better in a duel. Sanguinius operates at a level that none save Chaos infused Horus could hope to beat.
@@Kierano777
I understand where you're coming from, but Lion himself has feats that defy reason, such as striking Curze so fast he didn't even see the blow or his recent fight with Angron where old, noticeably weakened Lion beats him without taking almost any damage (I am aware of what Sanguinius did on Terra, but though wounded he was still in his prime). His reflexes and skill are superlative even compared to his brothers. Obviously I rate Sanguinius at the top (his one sided massacre of Ka'bandha and Kyriss is not nearly talked about enough for how absurd of a feat it is), but the more I read about The Lion the more I realize why he's the firstborn.
@@Ralldoron
You are blatantly wrong here. Everything you just said is your head cannon. Head cannon based on very old lore. Or more likely based on majorkill videos… and let me tell you lot of what he says is pure, grade A bs.
Sanguinius is THE FASTEST. There is no debate here. Horus himself at the height of his power, when he can freely manipulate time to trick the emperor in the past. And Horus who has repeated his fight with Sanguinius for a thousand times. There is no more reliable narrator regarding how powerful Sanguinius or any of this brothers are.
Speed:
“Horus Lupercal, despite his greater bulk, is not slow. His every step, movement, swing and strike is bullet-fast, the lethal blink of a las-bolt. Faster than any Astartesian reaction, faster than any Custodes reflex, faster than any primarch. Except one. Sanguinius is making him seem ponderous, heavy and cumbersome”
-This was from Horus’s perspective. And he is swinging faster than ANY primearch… and Sanguinius is even faster than that. So much faster that he makes him look slow.
Might:
Horus literally calls him THE MIGHTIEST PRIMEARCH.
And to just drive that point home:
“He hits you again. He soars clear, hooking a long, wide curve around the end columns. As he comes out of the turn, his wings begin to beat more furiously as he accelerates into the next run. You try to block him- Another strike. A good one. That would have disembowelled Angron. That
would have sheared the Pale King's heart in two. That would have taken
Ferrus' head from his shoulders.”
-Sanguinius is literally dishing out blows that would kills primearchs one after the other. Horus literally says that Sanguinius’s strike would have killed Ferus and mortarion in an instant. Sanguinius is definitely the mightiest.
Skill? He is potentially more skilled then that emperor himself:
“The gleaming Angel's relentless circuits around his ponderous foe have become a kind of dance: nimble, acrobatic, unstinting, elegant. There is intricate grace in his every movement, a demonstration of faultless martial prowess that no one in the universe could replicate. It is dazzling in its
exactitude, fluid and pure, almost performative, like a rite or sacred act. There is no effort wasted, no redundancy.”
-Once again, this is Horus at the hight of his power. Horus that tricked the emperor and Horus that knew everything there was to know about the primearchs.
And Sanguinius did this WHILE mortally wounded and suffering from 1000 new wounds he sustained from killing 300 elite Luna wolves. He was also exhausted from the siege.
In terms of skill, THERE IS NO DOUBT that Sanguinius is in his own realm where.
Also Lion isn’t that powerful. Russ places him bellow Sanguinius. Russ says that he can’t beat Sanguinius while he is sure he can beat Lion. And he has fought the Lion before. Lion would die near instantly if Sanguinius chose to kill. Sanguinius is faster, more skilled, can fly and is better armed.
-Lion was found 9 years after Guilliman. (It’s not “WAAAY after”). And strategically he was nothing compared to Dorn, Perturbabo, Ferus and Guilliman himself. Guilliman actually stayed to fix the worlds he conquered. And in terms of military victories Russ and Angron had the most.
As for Horus, Horus commanded many legions under him before their primearchs were found. He most likely shared the glory. And it’s also said that the Luna wolves brought the most worlds into compliance. Who brought most worlds into compliance is whoever the writers feels like if.
Horus states himself that in terms of strategy Ferus was your guy and was superior to Perti. Perturabo directed the siege and Dorn defended it. Neither of which Lion could come close to replicating. We both know this to be true.
Guilliman is also superior. Look could have never fix up the imperium like Guilliman did in 40k. His strategic mind is comparable to Sanguinius. He isn’t special in that regard.
-Sanguinius WAS THE MOST BELOVED PRIMEARCH:
Khan and Magnus liked him because of the librarius. Guilliman and the Lion literally made him emperor. Horus loved him. Konrad believed him to be perfect and traveled the galaxy to speak to him. Angron’s nail’s were soothed by his mere presence. Dorn literally shed a tear when they hugged after he closed the eternity gate. Lorgar WORSHIPPED him. Alpharius envied him for his wings…XD I could go on, but I think I have made my point.
-That’s not much of a relationship is it? He was a good weapon. That’s how emperor treated the Lion. As a weapon. Not as a son. He trusted his nature. Not the person.
With Sanguinius and Khan it was a different kind of relationship. They were not close with the emperor. But they were most likely his favorites. Because they had their own minds and values and didn’t worship him without question.
Also, AS I SAID… he was the favorite son:
“But when it came down to it, there were only two legitimate choices. Two favourites, lets not pretend otherwise. Myself, and the only other son who holds a place in my father's affections as significant as my own. My angel brother, Sanguinius. He came late, but was perhaps the most beloved.
---
If my father has a favourite son, Mersadie, it is Sanguinius.”
-Horus Lupercal
- Sanguinius had the best relationship with his sons. They had the deepest connection spiritually, emotionally, biologically and psychically.
-The Lion didn’t have a great relationship with humans. He looked down on them and much like Horus thought himself above them. More like their shepherd, rather then their equals.
As I said, what makes Sanguinius best regarding his treatment of humans was his humility. He didn’t see them as weaker versions of himself. He gave them the respect they deserved and mourned all loss of life. He treated them as the emperor saw them. As THE future. Unlike any of his brothers say for The Khan. Rest of them saw humans as things to be protected, oppressed or ruled over.
I cant wait untill you get to vulcan. I bet it will feel good to finally get to be right about who is actually the best.
some kind of first born nature to obeying his parent the most than his siblings.
Lets be honest. The emperor made a mistake not making the lion warmaster.
Short, to the point, no grand arguments needed to show his greatness. Much like the Lion himself.
I love Magnus, and dearly wish for him to be redeemed. I love Sanguinius, and his passion, and wish he would come back. I even mourn the fall of Lorgar, though your argument for him being the greatest will be a tough sell.
But the Lion? I have grown to respect him as I’ve read the Heresy novels. More than any other primarch, he is greatness itself.
The more I see L. J and Roboute, the more I think we REALLY need some Vulkan return.
Would love it to be a bro trip return with Corvus (and the Skhost of Ferrus 😆
I will only comment on this because the Lion is the greatest primarch.
For the Lion
For the Emperor.
Agreed Rho. He is the greatest Primarch. ;)
My Top 5 are
1. The Lion
2. Sanguinius
3. The Wolfking
4. Horus
5. Guilliman
After that it get's realy hard for me to pick a favourite.
He is literally the first angel of death. For loyalty is, it's own reward 🦁💚
But with that said im honestly a son of corvus corax primarch of the XIX legion the raven guard. Wolf lord rho I can wait till you make the greatest primarch video about him victorus Aut Mortis brothers..........🤫😶😶🌫️🤍🖤
He sure is a great candidate, in my world nr 2 just after sanguinius. My god id love see them two go to war together. When angels go to war.
Mike Brooks will probably ruin the lion by making him identify as otherkin.
Son of the Forest was great, I would be disappointed if you were right because Brooks came off as not only someone who loves and respects 40k lore but also views loyalist Primarchs and Astartes as genuine heroes.
The man made Typhon take a knee.
🖤
New names for the I Legion, the VII Legion, the X Legion and the XII Legion: Rock Angels (symbols of the Knights' Rock, the Knights' Winged Sword, Caliban's Earth Angel and Caliban's Lion-Wolf), Imperial Templars, Iron Bulls (symbol of the Gorgon Bull) and (old) War Wolves (symbol similar to the Space Wolves, but red and without fur).
🤍
Wouldn't it be better if Caliban was the mountain planet (with Knights living in rock castles) and Barbarus was the forest planet (with Necromancers living in wooden fortresses)?
⚫
Using the Angels of Absolution as an example, isn't it cooler to give the Dark Angels (personal rename: the Rock Angels) the stone color and the Death Guard the poison color?
@@cesarerinaldi6750no
Loyalty is its own reward.
talk about timing! i just started to build and paint my 40k ion El'Jonson figure!
The first born son greatest of all the Primarchs
"Where was The Lion when The Gorgon fell?" - I'm asking for an Iron Father.
"Where was The Lion, when The Angel fell?" - I'm asking for a Chaplain of the Death Company.
We know where he was: Handing siege engines to traiter Perturabo - as a little embezzlement to secure votes for his further career.
We know where he was: attacking Macragge and his brothers Guilliman and Sanguinius. Then bringing strife first to Ultramar, then to Deliverance, then to Caliban itself.
Never, not then, not now, was he (transhu-)man enough to meet the Emperor on his Golden Throne and see with his own eyes, where his decisions led. No, monsieur El'Jonson preferred to take a nap in his castle. Let others fight and die for ten millennia - TEN MILLENNIA!!! - instead.
Salute that? Never!
😁**just kidding ** 😁
Say whatever you want about the return of the primarchs buuut El'Jonson and Guilliman got so much character out of it. Man, how not to love both of them.
IDK wich "living" Primarch is the greatest, El'Jonson and Guilliman together will save the Imperium.
I'm glad Lion'el wasn't on Terra during the siege with Horus, because Horus would have killed him. Don't get me wrong, Horus without being completely juiced on chaos warp would have lost to johnson. The Horus we saw fight the emperor was at demigod levels of power. The guy was looping time, that's just insane. Lionel Johnson is my favorite primarch, and I'm glad he wasn't there for Horus to skewer.
The Lion is among the best, but he is not the best. His 40k personality and transformation puts him much closer to standing at the apex, but he could never have set up the imperium, administered to it's needs, or understood the needs of others. Being the best warrior matters, but if who you are makes everyone your enemy... That just leaves you to prove you are only the best by process of elimination and that is a weak metric to grade on at best, because it also proves that you are so weak that you can't trust anyone. The only reason humanity has ever been successful is because of the bonds of trust we make with each other. If Guilliman hadn't looked up to him and taken him on trust, he could have destroyed the legion of the dark angels all because the Lion couldn't trust him back. The Lion even after this demonstration of trust continues to not learn this lesson. Seemingly even still in 40k reflecting on the events of Imperium secondus with only resentment, because *he* drove the wedge between himself and Guilliman.
There are so many examples of his character being questionable throughout the books focusing on him. The mistrust of his sons, the inability to talk to his foster father, and arguably closest ally, dividing his entire legion, giving Perturabo the Siege weapons he needed to break nearly any fortifications....
These aren't traits of great Primarchs.
I'll just say a quote i heard long long ago can't remember where and when "to win a war you don't need heroes you need soldiers" agree or disagree i'd say the point stands well with Lion.
Lion could never be a Warmaster, as his personality would not go with the Emperors plan. It is baseline humanity fate to rule the galaxy, not Astartes nor Primarchs.
What are ya'll top 3 fighter primarchs, and why is it The Lion, Sanguinius, and the Khan?
As much as I like Corax and Vulkan if you can only pick one I don’t know how you don’t pick the lord of the 1st.
Here I sit, impatiently waiting for Corax
I mean he read some maps to get an advantage conquering worlds and was giving bs op dark age ai. Kinda hard not to be good when you have that kind of advantage
I see a typo. You seem to have misspelled Vulkan
Vulkan is my main guy, but The Lion is Big Brother for a reason.
He has a bit of a temper. He killed one of his chaplains when his chaplains talked back to him
I really loved the book were they fight in the forests of caliban
Greatest living primarch.
I get the argument. But even he recognized Sanguinius as the best stand in for the Emperor
When he dueled Kai, he seemed abit weak for a primarch.
He's the barometer. The genuine article. But...that doesn't necessarily make him the greatest. While I really wish I could nominate the Lion as the greatest, my vote remains cast for Sanguinius. However, if Horus had not turned traitor, then Horus would take the crown thrice over.
For the Lion! For the Emperor!
The Siege of Terra had the best legions combination.
Imperial Gists to hold the line.
White Scars to be fluid since they are fast movers.
Blood Angels as shock and awe.
Was Luther just a normal man when he found The Lion? How was he made into an Astarte when it's not likely most people would survive the modifications, especially not someone fully grown
Luther would be the greatest human warrior of Caliban if the Lion wasn't found by him and when the Emperor came to Caliban Luther was improved but since he was to old he cannot be transformed into an Astartes, all this is in the novel Descent of Angels
Didn't Caliban have a sermon in its core?
The Lion is the Greatest Primarch. He was the first that the others were based on. He is flawed like all the other Primarchs are. Yes, he wanted to be the Warmaster and still can be. The book the Lion, Son of the Forest, did show that he did grow. Though still keeping his secrets, he has grown more retrospective of how he brings the fight to his enemies but also to his sons that he thought betrayed him. You n ger Lion would not have given his wayward sons a second chance. His expectations of he will lead and they will follow has been tempered... he will lead, the choice that they will follow was given to his sons... The Lion has shown growth.... we will see how his interaction with his brother Reboute will be... he was actually happy he wasn't alone... i cannot wait for the next book....
Having been on terra to support dorn, traitors wouldn’t have a chance.
But as much as i love the Lion, hawkboy is the greatest primarch
What does it mean to be a Dark Angel?
To be the First, The Honored, The Sons of the Lion!
Glory to the Lion!
I'm genuinely curious why people think Lion is the greatest. The things I hear people mention: Of the primarch, he is one of the best individual warriors, he is incredibly loyal, he is a good tactician, and he is profoundly resistant to chaos.
Is that a good summary or did I miss anything?
In all candor, I don't see the compelling case for him being greater than Guilliman or Sanguinius, but I'm open to being convinced.
You answered you own question..
But I’ll add two key points that you missed out about the other two Primarchs you mentioned..
Sanguinus was flawed (Wings and blood drinker)
Guilliman was a nobleman/statesman not a warrior
So yes you did miss a couple things, not about the Lion because he’s the greatest!
But about the two other feeble primarchs
@@Dodger7780 Got it. I agree that I answered my own question - I was hoping for more from Lion fans. I’m not at all convinced the Lion is the greatest, but everyone’s entitled to their own opinions, of course. Thanks!
@@REDRAGON12345 of course everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and to accept those opinions gracefully, is what makes you a decent human..😊
The Lion
AKA: what if Tarzan was adopted by Uther Pendragon.
He sounds great.. no angel though
Sorry but that’s Sanguinius
Slight typo you misspelled Konrand Curze
Ah yes, the guy whose ass The Lion kicked in an embarrassing fashion is better than The Lion.
@@Ralldoron yes the guy who beat the lion and Guilliman in a 2v1 the only primarch to ever best two brothers at the same time if I remember correctly.
@@lordjav1320 Except he didn't? He attempted to bait them and then kill them with explosives, at no point were they in danger of actually losing. Bear in mind he can literally see the future yet The Lion was able to curb stomp him in their last two duels.
@@Ralldoron doesn't seem that way to me, it looks like vampire man beat the robot gorilla and the kitty
@@lordjav1320 His last fight with Lion ended with his spine broken and the Lion not even winded, then when Sanguinius (the REAL vampire man) threatened to kill him with his bare hands he literally started crying like a bitch until The Lion interceded to save his life. I am not making this up, the """""Night Haunter""""" was so terrified of Sanguinius in his bloodrage mode he started doubting all of his visions and screaming like a child. Not the best guy to simp for.
He has a stronger aura than everyone else- that’s dope! I wonder how his aura compares to Constantine Valdour
The Lion is one of the greatest, but for me, Sanguinus is the GOAT. Robute is great, Horus is great, peter turbo and dorn are great, but focusing on primarchs, and primarchs alone, the glorious hawk boy was most loved by his brothers and the most deadly
I could see it becoming the lion as he's so far pretty awesome since his return to 40k but not yet.
There is no doubt that he is the Primarch with the coolest name. That's got to be worth something.
Glory to the First!
How can sanginius not be a block in your top 5? 🤯
because he's overrated as fuck
I just wish his table top model lived up to his lore.....
lets be honest
1 Sanguinius
2 Roboute...yes Roboute hes not a 1v1 killer like the angel but he is a mastermind and empire builder like no other, no other primarch could probably save the imperium, let alone be bothered to do it.
3 MMMmmmMMmmm Russ maybe?
Russ, Russ, RUSS!
I prefer old man Lion, the young Lion was brash, a little too antagonistic and lacked a desire to use the people skills he has now.. but this new old Lion is perfect
You wrote Russ incorrectly. Just wanted to point it out so you can fix it.
Lots of kind words for a traitor.
We can smell the heresy on you.
The Lion is top tier. The tragedy of the Lion is the he was supposed to be the greatest Primarch, he was designed to be the greatest, but he fell short. Not his fault, as it was the product of his childhood, but he definitely fell short. He couldn’t maintain the loyalty and unity of his sons. That’s an undeniable leadership failure, all be it one he shares with his own father.
All of the Emperor's sons could not maintain the absolute loyalty of their Legions, even the traitors had Marines remain loyal.
Lorkan, Rylanor, etc.
@@Skiritai not all faced a civil war within their own legion that destroyed their home world and haunted their sons for 10,000 years.