FC45LC - I've seen several videos showing the imperfections when powder coating bullets. Between you and Elvis Ammo I've bought 2 powders from Eastwood to try this myself. You really seem to worry about how the bullet looks, but for me it comes down to 2 things: The primary function of coating is to prevent leading in the barrel and how it looks is secondary !! I'm sure that whoever is on the receiving end of these will NOT CARE how pretty it looked before :-). Thanks for all your hard work.
I havent used your unique + isopropyl trick, but I have a cheaper solution. Get Wire Pulling ubricant from ace hardware (about 8 bucks of this stuff will last several lifetimes of shooters), and mix 1:10(I think?) with isopropyl alcohol. It's the exact same stuff as the "lee case lube" which is rebranded wire pulling lube. Works fantastic, non sticky, and doesnt really need to be cleaned. Good video! I feel like the lyman style dies may scrape off the PC, where the lee dies wont.
sperswaglord1945 - Thanks for your comment. Wire Pulling Lube... interesting - gotta get some of that - sounds like a real Ace. There's something to be said in favor of the Lee push thrus when it comes to sizing big hard bullets...saves a lot of wear and tear on our sizer lubricators - they are not as strong as our reloading presses. Best to ya, FC
I make my own case and bullet lubes that separate after a while and can be difficult to shake to mix when it's cold. When I make the lube and pour it into a spray bottle, I drop a small marble in the bottle. It makes it much easier to shake mix the stuff especially when it's cold.
If you chuck a rod into your drill and wrap it with a cleaning patch such that it is tight in the sizing die, you can put on some red polishing rouge and clean up the interior surface of the sizing die. It will noticably improve the sizing and feel.
GunFun ZS - I didn't know that it was easy to get that rouge stuff...I have some old tin oxide that would probably work almost as well... Have a great day, FC Steve
Steve.. I wanted to interject that once you have put them through your Lee Die you may find that a trip through the RCBS Lube a Matic to add lube to the bands, Your bullets will stay concentric (Not swagging off to one side more than the other).. they align better as they are put down into the RCBS machine and lubed in that process, (They have already been sized) Sure it's a extra step, However the projectile will be perfect when it comes out of the process at the end. I did this when making Match bullets for the .45 ACP, Before getting the Star Machine. Dave.
Thorsaxe777 - Will take you up on that, Dave - and we are pushing the envelope on powder coating anyway...there was a time that I'd say, if we PC, why even bother with lube just because we don't have to. Doesn't mean we can't - and it might just pay off nicely...Best to ya, Steve
The part about pushing through the sizer all the way is very important w/ gas checks. if you don't push all the way through the next bullet will push on center of the last and unseat your gas check.
I recently purchased some of the seafoam green powder from Eastwood. it worked like a dream. my wife had to be with me when I did it. she picked out the color. I wanted Hemi Orange because my dad was a Hemi fanatic. that was the only engine he had in his cars going back to 1968. of course the woman always wins so the green won. I'm color coding my bullets to the hardness. I'm still getting the orange for my rifle rounds. as soon as I get my PID temperature control Finnished then I will mold some .308's. not going to mold anything till it's done. I have been setting my pot on 10 and going at it. I'm not happy with my bullets. I know they are all overcooked. do you think that casting them on high has effected the BHN? Sorry I'm a perfectionist and have to know everything about what I'm doing. if the PID system works out well I might get into production of them. I see a good future with them. enough bending your ear. as usual thanks for your videos they are very interesting and intertainment. between you and Elvis Ammo and Johnny's reloading bench I am getting good lessons on casting and everything else. firearms related. thank you again. Grant😀
Grant Atkinson - Nothing wrong with wanting to do things right. But there is no "right" in many things including shooting. Never ceases to amaze me when someone says "My way is the only way to do this". Tell that to someone who doesn't have a trigger finger. Doing what safely works well is the name of the game. And that requires doing homework and then the personal work of discovery. For our shooting, up to1400 fps or so, cast bullets rule. But once we get to 1900 fps and above, jacketed bullets are the solution. It's been that way for over 200 years. Neither the perfect powder coat, nor the perfect powder coat process is currently front and center. Nothing wrong with being a perfectionist, I know many in that vein...but if you are way into that, you will be rejecting a lot of very good cast bullets. With few exceptions, our handguns are only reliable for 4 MOA. We don't have to apply precision reloading when our distance is 25-50 yards at most (unless we are capable of holding 3 MOA offhand). If our loads shoot 1 1/2" groups at 25 yards from a rest, those are mighty fine. Gaining knowledge is part of our homework...but in all things, let our experiences be enjoyed... The way things currently are, I'm fairly certain that powder coated cast bullets can not really serve the vast numbers of rifle shooters out there when long range precision is needed (yes, I know that some great accuracy work has been done with cast bullets, but those are few and far between in comparison to the vast numbers of jacketed bullet shooters). Short range blasting is another story.... Best to ya, FC
I just did my first batch of cast PC 9mm using a Lee TL356-124-TC mold. I needed to size before and after powder coating because some of the rounds were coming in at ~362+ out of the mold. Not sure what the issue is as most were perfect (~5% are way too big). What is the issue causing some to be so oversized out of the mold? I'm thinking its from some of the lead sticking to the face of the molds preventing from it closing tightly. I noticed this twice during my session and removed it with an exacto knife. On another note, I used Elvis Ammo's low heat method for PC. I put them in the oven at 275 for 15 minutes. Then let them cool and toss them in a cardboard box. They broke apart perfectly.
dwradford - Elvis hasn't been making many videos lately - hope all is well over there. Sure, you can go lower for shorter time, the techs at Eastwood tell me "if it works for you, you can do that" still they do recommend the 400 degrees 20 minutes, so I'll just keep doing that. That much oversize usually means mold closure, as you have surmised. If you want to size those biggies, a little spray of case lube will help those go through just a bit easier. If too big, you'll have to remelt them. Good castin' to ya, FC Steve
What color gives the best powder coat results, also is their an advantage of doing a double powder coat treatment. I want to size my 45-70 bullets to .458 and Lee has only the .457 push through die, can you increase the die size to .458?
question i powder coated my bullets for the 450 bushmaster and the powder is flaking off on cretin spots after sizing what can i do with this send them back to the pot or should i pan lube them or use 45 45 10 on top of the powder coat thank you.
FC45 is it necessary to gas check a PC bullet? I'm assuming not considering you lube and check all in one and the a pc would not adhere to the lead. What BHN would you recommend to PC?...12 AND above or a harder alloy?
James Ford - Not necessary to gas check almost any handgun bullets - PC or not. We might want to do so if the more uniform bullet base gives us better accuracy though - and this is not a straight across the board phenomenon - if your bullet is a gas check design - might want to shoot it without the gas check first. If accuracy is unacceptable, then add the gas check. Adding gas checks to cast rifle bullet gas check designs fired at velocities over 1800 fps would be prudent. Hardness is no longer an issue with PC handgun bullets - practically anything goes until you get to the really big blasters. With rifles, totally different matter...when in doubt, gas check 'em. Best to ya, FC
FC, do you only use powder coated bullets? Do you think its a fad that like so many other things in the shooting world, will run its course until we come full circle to traditional lubed bullets?
Stovokor - Not at all - I shoot traditional, tumble lubed, Hi Tek, PC and have actually found that PC + traditional + gas checks all together. Whatever shoots the best for a particular load - that's what I shoot. And also, powder coating has been around long enough now that it is not going away. In fact, some factory ammo has come out with coated bullets. We're lucky in that we have many choices - I did a video on the 4 camps of bullet lubrication recently going into all the modes. Good shootin' to ya, FC Steve
The lube I make is lanolin based. Lanolin by itself would be too thick to use in a spray bottle. The alcohol is only the carrier and, yes, it does evaporate quickly. If you used a carrier that didn’t evaporate quickly, the lanolin would stay diluted and less effective as a lube. Alcohol evaporates quickly leaving only the lanolin base. Most commercial lubes in spray bottles with alcohol have directions that say something like wait 5 minutes after spraying before use to give the alcohol time to evaporate.
1LRLRG - Yes, we can within reason. I'm not going to shoot powder coated pure lead 223s at 2800 fps as the bullets won't hold the rifling...we may not get leading, but accuracy is going to be dismal... Shooters have done that - have you wondered why we aren't hearing all kinds of glowing reports? That's because there aren't any... But who knows?? - The perfect powder coat has not been discovered yet (even a cupronickel jacket is not perfect)... Best to ya, FC
powderbuythepound.com "Steele Blue" works well for me. I don't get those little crusty contact spots like FC has. The really creamy glossy looking powders seem more prone to that from what I can tell.
I just don't get it I know why people do it but if the bullet is sized right then you will not get leading. I would rather spend the money on powder!! But that's just me!!
? what? Ive been shooting years without any leading, and I shoot a LOT. In the past months I have shot thousands through my glock19 oem barrel with traditionally lubed bullets, no cleaning and it shines like a mirror. I mix my clip on wheel weights 50/50 with pure lead, and water drop into ice water. You're doing something wrong.
If by lessons, you mean leading, I do not. However, it took experimenting with alloy hardness, and sizing to achieve this. Leading is not leading period. There are many different kinds of leading, for many different reasons. I used to get tiny threadlike smears following rifling after 500-700 rounds. I eliminated this by going SOFTER in my alloy, which allowed the grease grooves to collapse slightly more, and give the rifling more bite on the bullet. This also increased my accuracy, by about a quarter inch to my surprise. Just because I figured out what my gun likes and perfected the method doesnt mean I'm lying. Casting bullets is easy to start, but can take a lifetime to master. Keep playing with it, and do more research at LASC articles and CastBoolits forum. Best of luck
cory8791 I cast 38s and 9mm. I keep it pretty simple. Tumble lube 158 and 124s . I shoot around 250 at a time or more. All 38s are 800 fps, 9mm are around 1000 fps. Shot in gp100, Black hawk , and cz85c. I have yet to see any leading at all. So that why I don't powder coat. Maybe someday. But I don't think you need powder coat to shoot cast.
I am experiencing major shaving of not only the coating but some lead with my Lee size when sizing .45 230 gr. round nose cast bullets. I am only sizing down 1 thou. but I suspect it is the die which looks as if it was milled with a rock when viewed under magnification. I have purchased a rcbs lubrisizer in the hopes this will solve the problem. Do you think this will help?
edstimator1 - The lube trick really helps when big sizing is being done. When cast bullets are on the super overlarge side, you can get PC shear off, but lead can only shear off if the bullet will not enter the die in the first place...Obviously, that can't be since you are only sizing .001 - with that degree of sizing, there should definitely be no shearing. If your bullets are only .001" bigger than you desire, you may not even need to size 'em at all...just load 'em and shoot 'em as they are. With that inside finish, sounds like you have a defective die. You might mike your sized bullets to see what dimension your die has - you might have a small sizing die. A return to Lee for replacement might be in order. Have a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, FC Steve
Thanks for your insight. I suspected the bullet was getting sheared due to a rough ramp into the die. The raw bullets are .453 as cast and I think that is too large to shoot without sizing but I may take some 3000 grit emery paper to the ramp in and see if I can smooth it out. The lubrisizer will be here soon though so it may be a moot point as I am hoping for success with the new sizer.
FC45LC - I've seen several videos showing the imperfections when powder coating bullets. Between you and Elvis Ammo I've bought 2 powders from Eastwood to try this myself. You really seem to worry about how the bullet looks, but for me it comes down to 2 things: The primary function of coating is to prevent leading in the barrel and how it looks is secondary !! I'm sure that whoever is on the receiving end of these will NOT CARE how pretty it looked before :-). Thanks for all your hard work.
I havent used your unique + isopropyl trick, but I have a cheaper solution. Get Wire Pulling ubricant from ace hardware (about 8 bucks of this stuff will last several lifetimes of shooters), and mix 1:10(I think?) with isopropyl alcohol.
It's the exact same stuff as the "lee case lube" which is rebranded wire pulling lube. Works fantastic, non sticky, and doesnt really need to be cleaned.
Good video! I feel like the lyman style dies may scrape off the PC, where the lee dies wont.
sperswaglord1945 - Thanks for your comment. Wire Pulling Lube... interesting - gotta get some of that - sounds like a real Ace. There's something to be said in favor of the Lee push thrus when it comes to sizing big hard bullets...saves a lot of wear and tear on our sizer lubricators - they are not as strong as our reloading presses. Best to ya, FC
Thanks for all the information and work on your videos I appreciate you
Pink & Blue PC are the winners. I'd offer that Bird Yellow PC up to a good home. Thanks for posting your findings.
B WAX - And thanks to you for posting comment...Have a great day, FC
I make my own case and bullet lubes that separate after a while and can be difficult to shake to mix when it's cold. When I make the lube and pour it into a spray bottle, I drop a small marble in the bottle. It makes it much easier to shake mix the stuff especially when it's cold.
If you chuck a rod into your drill and wrap it with a cleaning patch such that it is tight in the sizing die, you can put on some red polishing rouge and clean up the interior surface of the sizing die. It will noticably improve the sizing and feel.
GunFun ZS - I didn't know that it was easy to get that rouge stuff...I have some old tin oxide that would probably work almost as well... Have a great day, FC Steve
Snow shoe blue from prismatic powders is wonderful even with very hard BHN bullets
Steve.. I wanted to interject that once you have put them through your Lee Die you may find that a trip through the RCBS Lube a Matic to add lube to the bands, Your bullets will stay concentric (Not swagging off to one side more than the other).. they align better as they are put down into the RCBS machine and lubed in that process, (They have already been sized) Sure it's a extra step, However the projectile will be perfect when it comes out of the process at the end. I did this when making Match bullets for the .45 ACP, Before getting the Star Machine. Dave.
Thorsaxe777 - Will take you up on that, Dave - and we are pushing the envelope on powder coating anyway...there was a time that I'd say, if we PC, why even bother with lube just because we don't have to. Doesn't mean we can't - and it might just pay off nicely...Best to ya, Steve
The part about pushing through the sizer all the way is very important w/ gas checks. if you don't push all the way through the next bullet will push on center of the last and unseat your gas check.
George Reichte - Had not considered that, but tallyhoo to ya, George ..!! - Thanks for posting... FC
Had it happen with some pointed rifle bullets. Have a good one!
WHY WERE YOU NOT COMING TO US FROM THE HOT LEAD ZONE?!????!!?!?!
I'm a huge fan of the eastwood diamond black metallic, and hotcoat gray.
whats the difference with the powders called "hotcoat"?
Jake A I believe they have a slightly different composition. Both powders perform very well though.
slugmaster - I used the Periwinkle Gray and it worked very nicely. I'll add Eastwood diamond black metallic to the list... Thanks for your input, FC
I recently purchased some of the seafoam green powder from Eastwood. it worked like a dream. my wife had to be with me when I did it. she picked out the color. I wanted Hemi Orange because my dad was a Hemi fanatic. that was the only engine he had in his cars going back to 1968. of course the woman always wins so the green won. I'm color coding my bullets to the hardness. I'm still getting the orange for my rifle rounds. as soon as I get my PID temperature control Finnished then I will mold some .308's. not going to mold anything till it's done. I have been setting my pot on 10 and going at it. I'm not happy with my bullets. I know they are all overcooked. do you think that casting them on high has effected the BHN? Sorry I'm a perfectionist and have to know everything about what I'm doing. if the PID system works out well I might get into production of them. I see a good future with them. enough bending your ear. as usual thanks for your videos they are very interesting and intertainment. between you and Elvis Ammo and Johnny's reloading bench I am getting good lessons on casting and everything else. firearms related. thank you again. Grant😀
Grant Atkinson - Nothing wrong with wanting to do things right. But there is no "right" in many things including shooting. Never ceases to amaze me when someone says "My way is the only way to do this". Tell that to someone who doesn't have a trigger finger. Doing what safely works well is the name of the game. And that requires doing homework and then the personal work of discovery. For our shooting, up to1400 fps or so, cast bullets rule. But once we get to 1900 fps and above, jacketed bullets are the solution. It's been that way for over 200 years. Neither the perfect powder coat, nor the perfect powder coat process is currently front and center. Nothing wrong with being a perfectionist, I know many in that vein...but if you are way into that, you will be rejecting a lot of very good cast bullets. With few exceptions, our handguns are only reliable for 4 MOA. We don't have to apply precision reloading when our distance is 25-50 yards at most (unless we are capable of holding 3 MOA offhand). If our loads shoot 1 1/2" groups at 25 yards from a rest, those are mighty fine. Gaining knowledge is part of our homework...but in all things, let our experiences be enjoyed... The way things currently are, I'm fairly certain that powder coated cast bullets can not really serve the vast numbers of rifle shooters out there when long range precision is needed (yes, I know that some great accuracy work has been done with cast bullets, but those are few and far between in comparison to the vast numbers of jacketed bullet shooters). Short range blasting is another story.... Best to ya, FC
I use Lee sizing dies and I don’t put a mark on my bullets while sizing.
I use that trick all the time when I’m sizing my zink bullets they are very hard on the BHN level so a little bit of lube and away they go
If you use the mec press it would be even easier just a better press.
I just did my first batch of cast PC 9mm using a Lee TL356-124-TC mold. I needed to size before and after powder coating because some of the rounds were coming in at ~362+ out of the mold. Not sure what the issue is as most were perfect (~5% are way too big). What is the issue causing some to be so oversized out of the mold? I'm thinking its from some of the lead sticking to the face of the molds preventing from it closing tightly. I noticed this twice during my session and removed it with an exacto knife.
On another note, I used Elvis Ammo's low heat method for PC. I put them in the oven at 275 for 15 minutes. Then let them cool and toss them in a cardboard box. They broke apart perfectly.
dwradford - Elvis hasn't been making many videos lately - hope all is well over there. Sure, you can go lower for shorter time, the techs at Eastwood tell me "if it works for you, you can do that" still they do recommend the 400 degrees 20 minutes, so I'll just keep doing that. That much oversize usually means mold closure, as you have surmised. If you want to size those biggies, a little spray of case lube will help those go through just a bit easier. If too big, you'll have to remelt them. Good castin' to ya, FC Steve
Steve, can you coat the bullets with more than one coat.
What color gives the best powder coat results, also is their an advantage of doing a double powder coat treatment.
I want to size my 45-70 bullets to .458 and Lee has only the .457 push through die, can you increase the die size to .458?
Have you ever made bullets too hard? I have concerns about making 454 casulls
question i powder coated my bullets for the 450 bushmaster and the powder is flaking off on cretin spots after sizing what can i do with this send them back to the pot or should i pan lube them or use 45 45 10 on top of the powder coat thank you.
when you calibrate the bullet, does the ink not come out?
FC45 is it necessary to gas check a PC bullet? I'm assuming not considering you lube and check all in one and the a pc would not adhere to the lead. What BHN would you recommend to PC?...12 AND above or a harder alloy?
James Ford - Not necessary to gas check almost any handgun bullets - PC or not. We might want to do so if the more uniform bullet base gives us better accuracy though - and this is not a straight across the board phenomenon - if your bullet is a gas check design - might want to shoot it without the gas check first. If accuracy is unacceptable, then add the gas check. Adding gas checks to cast rifle bullet gas check designs fired at velocities over 1800 fps would be prudent. Hardness is no longer an issue with PC handgun bullets - practically anything goes until you get to the really big blasters. With rifles, totally different matter...when in doubt, gas check 'em. Best to ya, FC
FortuneCookie45LC, many thanks for the detailed response. This is exactly what I was looking for. Great videos and knowledge behind them.
FC, do you only use powder coated bullets? Do you think its a fad that like so many other things in the shooting world, will run its course until we come full circle to traditional lubed bullets?
Stovokor - Not at all - I shoot traditional, tumble lubed, Hi Tek, PC and have actually found that PC + traditional + gas checks all together. Whatever shoots the best for a particular load - that's what I shoot. And also, powder coating has been around long enough now that it is not going away. In fact, some factory ammo has come out with coated bullets. We're lucky in that we have many choices - I did a video on the 4 camps of bullet lubrication recently going into all the modes. Good shootin' to ya, FC Steve
FC Based on those colors, I think you misunderstand how an "Easter Egg Hunt" is supposed to work ;).
GunFun ZS -- lol, lol and lol again... Best Regards, FC STeve
I have used lanolin and alcohol. What is unique?
I don’t use yellow it does no cover well.
alcohol in a lube makes no sense to me doesn't Alcohol dry really fast?
The lube I make is lanolin based. Lanolin by itself would be too thick to use in a spray bottle. The alcohol is only the carrier and, yes, it does evaporate quickly. If you used a carrier that didn’t evaporate quickly, the lanolin would stay diluted and less effective as a lube. Alcohol evaporates quickly leaving only the lanolin base. Most commercial lubes in spray bottles with alcohol have directions that say something like wait 5 minutes after spraying before use to give the alcohol time to evaporate.
Can you use a softer bullet to go faster if you powder coat?
1LRLRG - Yes, we can within reason. I'm not going to shoot powder coated pure lead 223s at 2800 fps as the bullets won't hold the rifling...we may not get leading, but accuracy is going to be dismal... Shooters have done that - have you wondered why we aren't hearing all kinds of glowing reports? That's because there aren't any... But who knows?? - The perfect powder coat has not been discovered yet (even a cupronickel jacket is not perfect)... Best to ya, FC
Where do you get the powder and alloy to make powder coated bullets
powderbuythepound.com "Steele Blue" works well for me. I don't get those little crusty contact spots like FC has. The really creamy glossy looking powders seem more prone to that from what I can tell.
GunFun ZS so you prefer Steele Blue powder. Do you know to obtain the powder I new to powder coated bullets but I know how is works
I just don't get it I know why people do it but if the bullet is sized right then you will not get leading. I would rather spend the money on powder!! But that's just me!!
cory8791 not true. Even if it's sized properly, leading will eventually happen.
? what? Ive been shooting years without any leading, and I shoot a LOT. In the past months I have shot thousands through my glock19 oem barrel with traditionally lubed bullets, no cleaning and it shines like a mirror. I mix my clip on wheel weights 50/50 with pure lead, and water drop into ice water. You're doing something wrong.
superswaglord1945 if you're not getting ANY lessons whatsoever, you're lying through your teeth.
If by lessons, you mean leading, I do not. However, it took experimenting with alloy hardness, and sizing to achieve this. Leading is not leading period. There are many different kinds of leading, for many different reasons. I used to get tiny threadlike smears following rifling after 500-700 rounds. I eliminated this by going SOFTER in my alloy, which allowed the grease grooves to collapse slightly more, and give the rifling more bite on the bullet. This also increased my accuracy, by about a quarter inch to my surprise.
Just because I figured out what my gun likes and perfected the method doesnt mean I'm lying. Casting bullets is easy to start, but can take a lifetime to master. Keep playing with it, and do more research at LASC articles and CastBoolits forum. Best of luck
cory8791 I cast 38s and 9mm. I keep it pretty simple. Tumble lube 158 and 124s . I shoot around 250 at a time or more. All 38s are 800 fps, 9mm are around 1000 fps. Shot in gp100, Black hawk , and cz85c. I have yet to see any leading at all. So that why I don't powder coat. Maybe someday. But I don't think you need powder coat to shoot cast.
I am experiencing major shaving of not only the coating but some lead with my Lee size when sizing .45 230 gr. round nose cast bullets. I am only sizing down 1 thou. but I suspect it is the die which looks as if it was milled with a rock when viewed under magnification. I have purchased a rcbs lubrisizer in the hopes this will solve the problem. Do you think this will help?
edstimator1 - The lube trick really helps when big sizing is being done. When cast bullets are on the super overlarge side, you can get PC shear off, but lead can only shear off if the bullet will not enter the die in the first place...Obviously, that can't be since you are only sizing .001 - with that degree of sizing, there should definitely be no shearing. If your bullets are only .001" bigger than you desire, you may not even need to size 'em at all...just load 'em and shoot 'em as they are. With that inside finish, sounds like you have a defective die. You might mike your sized bullets to see what dimension your die has - you might have a small sizing die. A return to Lee for replacement might be in order. Have a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, FC Steve
Thanks for your insight. I suspected the bullet was getting sheared due to a rough ramp into the die. The raw bullets are .453 as cast and I think that is too large to shoot without sizing but I may take some 3000 grit emery paper to the ramp in and see if I can smooth it out. The lubrisizer will be here soon though so it may be a moot point as I am hoping for success with the new sizer.
Tweety bird yellow not canary