damn, as a white guy who loves Rock & Hip Hop i gotta say that mike is the one who said the most intelligent words here. It's true that the people who loves metal they respect their leyeds but i dont see that in the Hip Hop's Communitiny
I saw a Kid at my High School wear a Tribe Called Quest shirt and another kid with a Wu Tang shirt.....so there's still some teens out there that respect the Pioneers.
Ever tried artists like Jay Electronica? Logic? Action Bronson? Bishop Nehru? CyHi The Prince? There's a lot of new school cats that are nice, just gotta look for 'em (and not JUST the underground, IMO).
Maya Laku Agreed, like all them dudes. I definitely need to dig through alot of new scool cats to find lyricist & Story stellers I connect with.. I love all music for different reasons. From and old school 80s & 90s LA DJ. Best 2 U Bro.
Maya Laku Nehru is next in line I hope Bronson is cool but he sounds too close to ghostface for me to really get into him. Not a logic fan Chyi latest project was pretty good. Other people to look at is Flatbush zombies them dudes is easily the best hip hop GROUP out right now.
When I worked in a high school, the kids were listening to 90's rap music, I was surprised. One simply said, Lil' Wayne sucks. LOL. But most kids i know do listen to Wayne.
i think a huge aspect is that hip hop is the youngest genre and its evolving fast as fuck faster than any other genre has, so the older stuff, while people can still respect it, is so fucking outdated so quickly
Thank you for acknowledging that hip-hop was also founded as party music. I hate when ppl make it seem that hip-hop was historically a sociopolitical music. It was actually party/good time music and also became sociopolitical. . .
I agree with the last dude. Hip hop is the most progressive out of all the other genre's of music in my opinion. I feel like it's a good thing that hip hop is always about expending on whats done then worshiping the past, even though I know a few artist that are all about nostalgia trips. That being said, I still listen to Wu Tang and watch for when a new Ghostface album drops or any of them.
What I don't like about a lot of older hip hop fans is that they make you feel obligated to listen to what they deem "classics" however if you try to tell them about a newer artist they don't know about they claim it's not worthy of their time. Personally, my favorite artist is Lupe Fiasco but I still try to keep a good mix of artist from all years in my collection...Key word is artist.
I feel like it's just the fact that the old heads like Rakim EPMD Tribe Etc don't want to sell out and do the type of music that caters to the generation that we are in. They stay true to their sound.
J. Nyce made the best point. I just recently became a big hip-hop fan, ever since i was introduced to J.Cole's Warm-Up tape. Since then, i've been following blogs and such looking out for all new things hip-hop. That said, it's hard to take the time to go back and listen to the legends/pioneers, given that we live in a generation that's impatient and only cares about what's hot and new. I love Nas, Beastie Boys, Run-DMC, and am in the process of listening to dudes like KRS-one, Rakim, Tribe etc
That's something I asked myself sometimes. I'm 17 years old and I'm a fan of hip-hop since I'm 12 and I always was like how can you listen to something without knowing how it started. Between old school and new school rap I choose old school rap hands down. But right now to me the teenagers (and older) are not open minded they just wanna stick to what the like and what they know. I have a nice quote from O.C that can summarize the all thing "I'd rather be broke and have a whole lot of respect"..
im 19years old and am bumping my bdp - live hardcore worldwide lp right now there wouldnt be hip hop as it is today without guys like krs blowfly kurtis rakim and all of those legends that are still killing!!
i'm 17 and i both respect and listen to old school hip hop. And I CAN relate to it because they were talking about life, and life is life no matter when you experience it
hip-hop is one of, if not the only genre that has its core audience completely willing to ignore and hate on the OG's of the genre. Most genres have a deep respect and open love to its founders, but hip-hop has gotten to a place where the audience, not necessarily the artists, but the audience straight up doesn't care about the OG's.
I’m so glad J. Nyce made that point I had been thinking that for the entire debate. Such a raw competitive element does not exist in other genres of music like it does in hip hop, at least not to the same degree. The practice of battling or beefing accompanied the genre since its inception. Based on this competitive mindset it’s only natural that the new school would not appreciate the old school.
The reason why so many rap veterans complain about rap music nowadays is because they have no one to pass the baton to. How many honestly dope rappers out there are getting exposure whom are below age 30 (besides Kendrick Lamar)? 25? 24? 23? Exactly. These guys (Nas, Common, etc.) are just one generation of rap (1990's) forced to make 2 generations worth of quality music (90's & 2000's). Even worse, some get no recognition. They're practically watching all their hard work crumble before them.
Its important to make the distinction between critical respect and commercial relevance. Most soul and Jazz artists don't sell a lot of records but the ones who have critical respect can tour all year round and make a living that way. Unfortunately the one department where rap music is still premature is in live performance. There are very few rappers I would pay money to see live because of my expectations for live music are beyond the standard of most rappers and their hype men.
Em is nearly 40 and he's still the best selling rapper. He still sells out stadiums, makes 1 million per show, and still goes multiplatinum. Plus he still one of the most respected rappers out there.
To me it comes down to wanting to go back and here where Hip Hop came from and how it was created. I got into Hip Hop around 96 or 97 and I had to go back and listen to a lot of stuff to really see where hip hop came from. The internet is really a gift & curse because without it I would have never heard all those old albums back then. Being from the south I never heard of ILLmatic or Reasonable Doubt. I remember streaming those albums back in the late 90s and falling in love with them.
J. Nyce nailed it. Hip hop has always been about "what's new" since the very beginning. MCees that evolve stay relevant and those that don't get dated, simple as that. The only disrespect is that coming from older fans (and rappers) criticizing the younger generation, like the hostility towards skinny jeans and "hipster rap" for example. And for those who say lyricism is dead, listen to Kendrick Lamar. I'm tired of the old man "Back in my day..." gripes.
It was the older generation that threw the first punch by saying "hip hop is dead" the younger generation responded by saying "sit down old man". The kids are just countering the criticism they get. What they're really saying is: "Your old, u don't get it. Your taste in music is suck in another era." Hip hop lives, it's just that the best of it is usually not on the radio or tv.
Yo big ups to Dead End Hip Hop! This is great. Mike you da man. I listen to wide variety of music too, and when you mentioned Metallica I about fell outta my chair.
Beneath the outer layer the train is black. You just don't disrespect the people that lay the tracks. You love this human expression and they gave you that. And so the least y'all can do is try and pay em back. - Brother Ali.
It is what it is. I don't roll wit the rap fans. I'm a music fan, so if I ain't getting what I need from rap, I've got soul, funk, jazz, bossa nova to fill the void. As long as Nas is still releasing albums that's all I need from the rap game. Now if Slick Rick could drop another album, that would just be the icing on the cake.
Lyrics are pretty much the only thing I look out for in music today. Thats why Ghostface is still one my fav rappers. The dude is always telling stories and not just randomly talking about money and girls like most rappers. I think ever track should be based around 1 topic.
The message of hip hop as defined by the Universal Zulu Nation (the founders) is and always has been Peace, Love, Unity, and Having Fun...PERIOD! I have been to the Rocksteady Crew Anniversary every year since 2007 and I will tell you that there are many young people in the audience who are learning the true elements from the older cats both in the audience and on stage. The essence of hip hop culture can not be found on television or radio, but believe me, it's still alive and still relevant.
Dudes the foundations were centered around emceeing, graffiti, brake'n, and the dj's. this combination was brought together to spread knowledge. That's the real truth about the origin of hip hop. Battle rapping and other variations that came later have been misrepresented as being far more important than they are in modern terms.
This generation of rap listeners, from 2000 to now, have a lack of knowledge and or respect for the rappers of old school. When I was a teen I appreciated and liked some of the music that my parents listened to that I would consider to be old school. That's another problem, this generation doesn't respect good music.
Not true at all I respect a lot of the older rappers because they actually had talent instead of relying on catchiness or production. But I still don't listen to all of them because I personally don't like majority of older rappers aside from snoop, Em, biggie, etc.
It all comes full circle. I feel in love with Hip-Hop in 1991 when I was 11. I still remember being from California listening to Lighter Shade of Brown, Geto Boys, South Central Cartel and of course Ice Cube. But over time around 1993, it evolved to a point that I felt I related more to the music than even two years earlier. From 1993-2004, I really felt I connected with the genre. I was also between 13-24 years old, which would be my youth, so that had a lot to do with it. I wasn't feeling the 80's during that time. I had some favorites, but I didn't like BDP, though I liked KRS-One's solo work in the 90's. I wasn't feeling that Miami bass of 2 Live Crew, or Eric B and Rakim after Paid in Full, or a lot of the 80's outside a few songs like the Message or Slick Rick Bedtime Story or Eazy E Boyz in the Hood. Over the years I really did get into 80's hip hop and I really enjoy it and understand it, and the rawness of the early stuff. And that's were these kids are at. They don't get what we did in the 90's and early 2000's. They don't get gangsta culture, or the riots, or Thug Life, or colors, or anyone of that. These kids today have their own reality, they have their own struggles and they find their own voices they want to listen to. I remember rapping to Doggystyle in my dad's truck and he laughed. I asked what's up? All he said was, "my dad hated the Beatles too." LMAO. And with that in realized I'll hate my son's music and I wouldn't understand it. But my dad did like some of my music, like he loved Nate Dogg's never leave me alone and he did like 2Pac's Me Against the World album and actually felt sympathy for him. So all and all, it's just a new day and in a post-Ferguson world, I do see a switch back to lyrics as Kendrick Lamar is the most talked about rapper I hear about now. So we'll see.
Eminem is definitely not considered a hip hop pioneer. Either is Jay-Z. We were more talking about people like Kool G Rap, KRS, Rakim, etc. Nothing against Jay or Em. Just making a correction.
So true, in the beginning rappers were just an accent to the DJ's. battle rapping didn't become big until later on in the culture. Hip hop began with DJ's spinning breaks, bboys busting it out on the floor, and the graff writers were writing on the walls, the emcee was simply a call and response "hype man" for the DJ. Of course things have changed, but this is the actual fact.
I'm 17. The point that I'm making is that how can you appreciate someone who is "hot" now when you don't even appreciate someone who came before them? No music exists in a vacuum. It's not bad because it's new, it is getting a huge load of complaints because most rappers today are trying to be copycats, and most fans are ignorant and/or close minded.
From MCing (the actual lyrical ones) to DJing (again the real ones) to breaking to writing - all these things are art forms that require extreme levels of skill, innovation, and DEDICATION. when something with such a high level of required dedication gets pulled as far into the mainstream cesspool as modern day hip hop is, its easy to understand why people prefer cheap shit. This is the fucking "fast food" era of hip hop.
@trumpetLAD93 Appreciate the feedback. Our videos will always sit in the 15 minute range mark. If we feel the need to go over, we have to due to the nature of the conversation. It's hard to have an indepth discussion on this nature or any nature of conversation we have had in five or seven minutes. Our reviews will typically range in the 8-10 minute mark. Thanks for watching and giving us 15 minutes of your time. We really appreciate it. Hope you stay with us!
Great documentary and mad respect for everyone involved in making it from the camera man on down to the guests. Btw , I am 45 years old and would have loved to been in this discussion group.
@Cael2012 You're welcome. Thanks for watching! Comment away. We love to see it and comment back where we can. Always appreciate any insight on our conversations from the viewing public.
@mykectown Hip hop production has improved over time immensely, becoming more complex, expanding the sound hip hop, and crossing genres. Yes it did progress at the expense of lyrics to an extent, but u can still find spitters and lyricists if u look for them. It seems to me that your asking for a 80's-90's hip hop revival, as if u never wanted hip hop to change from that time. Ask yourself this: Did u listen to the same music as your parents? Do u expect kids to listen to the same music as u?
@viberocsf KRS-One was just a reference that we knew people would instantly relate too. We also threw out Kool G Rap, Big Daddy Kane, Kool Moe Dee, and more. I felt like we were picking on KRS-One.
I am young listener, only 18 so I grew up with this HipHop era, I was detached from the 90s music but altho I listen to today's music (more experimental, lyrical and underground hip hop) I still appreciate old HipHop, with records like BlackStar, 36 Chambers, Ilmatic, Low End Theory The diary.. I don't get how people can call it wack
That's a big reason hip hop doesn't progress like it should. People get stuck on only making what's currently hot. Not building from it. You would never hear someone like Toby Keith call Waylon Jennings bullshit. Just like you wouldn't hear Beyonce call Aretha bullshit. There is a level of respect there. Even if they don't personally listen to the pioneers, they know what they did and they respect them for it. That was the basis for the discussion, but it turned into a debate of personal taste.
Jay-Z concerts are still amazing. The amount of money he puts in to the production makes it worth it. Plus, the man has so many hit songs, he literally can do a 2 hour concert of just his singles. That's not even adding any favorite album cuts. And I love the live band he always uses in concert, makes alot of his tracks sound even better.
@ajutah4 Agreed! Here is my take; hip hop is like a team (any sport). You need stars, role players, coaches and owners. Your stars are those who sucessfully push envelopes (commercial or underground). Your role players are the ones who stay in their lane and do a good job, ie Jay Rock. Your coaches are dudes like Snoop who stay relevant and coach some new cats. Owners are corporate whose job it is to sell you a product and market it as the best that there is and you would be foolish not to buy
To Myke's point about metal bands, I think the reason new/popular bands acknowledge old school bands, is because metal is marketed to and underground audience/scene and respecting older bands is seen as part of the lifestyle. Popular rap, on the other hand, is about selling your life and your swag. Rapping about how you're the greatest rapper ever doesn't really fit in with saying KRS-One or anyone other than you is a legend. Maybe lil wayne would wear a KRS-One shirt if they cost $400?
Although I agree it's disparaging that kids dunno anything about the founders - did previous generations of hip hop really embrace the generation before them? For instance, did Big Daddy Kane or Rakim make records with Busy Bee? Nope they thought that shit was old and tired. Did Nas enlist Marley Marl to make his first record? Nope, because Marl was the previous generation. Just like how teenagers want to deny they are anything like their parents - kids wanna think they are doing something new.
im 15 years old, my Parents Introduced me to Public Enemy, RUN DMC, BDP, etc. and yes when i was growing up i would listen to artist like lil wayne and such but i asked my self one time, let me listen to the artist that started it all, so then i did my research, when i found about Wu Tang, Sugar Hill Gang, rakim. etc. i refused to listen to artist today, and thats what kids my age dont do they dont do not by respect to the people that started it all.
The fans problem is they don't listen to rap because it's good, they listen to rap based off of if it's hot or not. While other genres tend to listen to what's good, so more times talent is the new "it" thing in that genre. Since talent is always one of the key elements for a fan they will enjoy the older stuff. In hip-hop the key element is being hot and they don't care about talent so they couldn't care less about the old dudes.
To make another point: @Mike C Town I believe you see more Metal fans have an appreciation for their pioneers because metal went through its phase of not being top 40. I'm 21 and I remember when I was a little younger I hated hearing boy bands and pop singers. So I would latch to heavy metal and thus listen to Black Sabbath or Slayer Hip hip for the majority of its lifespan has been integrated with top 40. There isn't a threat from another genre to make people want to hold on their classics.
Its a couple of things.. Number 1, the TRENDINESS. Kids wanna hear what is on the radio at the moment because that's what their friends are listening to, so that's whats hot. Number 2, lyrical content. Kids today don't really have that emotional connection to the art of rhyming. Back in the day, it was about putting a hard beat on, and the MC just going in and rhyming his ass off, with scratches in between the verses. Kids today fantasize about the hot women, money, the jewelry, the night life, etc. And that's what those guys talk about. As ignorant and derivative as it is, that's what they love to hear about because that's what they wanna hear.
Hiphop first came in the early 70s, but the rapping part did not appear until around 1977-78 where some of the first was The furious five 1nd Sugarhill gang. Then in the early 80s it grew. They then had Run DMC, The Fat boys, Ice T etc, etc. And in mid 80s the first Latin rapper began to become famous and that was Kid Frost, NWA Started around there also and gangsta rap became famous about 2 years later, it will say around 1986-1988. Then in early and mid 90s the rap scene was bigger then ever.
"A lot of Hip-Hop fans nowadays are youth fans..." Hip-Hop has ALWAYS had youth fans. In fact, it was started by urban youth. Rappers that were between the ages of 18-25 anywhere from 13-28 years ago were dropping classic albums in their day. Ex: -Lauryn Hill was 20 when The Fugees dropped "The Score" -Mos Def was about 25 when he released "Black On Both Sides" -Outkast dropped three classic albums before they were 25 (ATLiens, Aquemini, Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik).
Yea, When older rappers try to come back out they tend to merge their old and new styles to gain new fans but instead lose both because the new school thinks they sound too old school and the old fans think they sound too new school.
loving what you guys are doing! gotta say i love the old school stuff ny favourites being nas and commonsense. and what got me into that stuff was my love for lupe i had to checkout the history as you guys were saying, LYRICISM over popping bottles anyday. i was just listening to KRS ones song "hip hop lives" and the legend said it himself "Hip means to know It's a form of intelligence To be hip is to be up-date and relevant" just though that was interesting in todays context haha my 2 cents
What most people dont understand is that when you are younger, most of the time you gravitate towards whats being played at the moment which is the cool thing to do. Your young and you really dont know any better. I do think it is ignorant for kids of this generation who love hip hop to not go back and study what came before. Not all of us should be put in the same category. Above all I love rhyming, flow, and lyricism in hip hop which was something that was very common in the early days.
I don't think young people are completely disrespectful to the predecessors of contemporary hip hop. I do see a lot of kids as young as 14 listening to Tupac, Notorious B.I.G., N.W.A. and even sometimes Wu Tang Clan. Granted not too many of those artists put out their own records anymore seeing as how they're either dead or focusing on producing or other career endeavors, but I still think there's a genuine respect for them.
In my opinion when cooperations got into the business of Hip Hop, Hip Hop hasn't been the same. Money is ruining Hip Hop, money took the passion out of Hip Hop and replace it with greed.
I agree man though, I'm 14 from Australia and I probably know more about hip hop then most people out (not meaning to sound like a brag) I think it's the love of the culture that just makes kids like me want to dig into the roots of hip hop.
I think metal bands keep relevant with merchandising and through the general culture, from what I know you hardly see coverage on old bands in hip hop magazines the same way it happens in metal
Legends are respected I always show people who dont know any legends a song by one of them and their like who that ill be like nas kieth murray ect and they ve like damn cus they make them think
KRS ONE dissed his pioneer MC Shan because he felt as though he was the best. He had an interview which he talks about how things circle around & how the new generation will do the same to him. That's the game, even the pioneers did the same.
@TekRell - YEP! As Black Thought said in "What They Do" - "The elements of true hip hop have been forsaken" DeeJay, EmCee, B-Boy, Graffiti. I will rep the true culture that I grew up with and continue on doing so until I'm dead. I think it has a lot to do with the fact the culture was SO watered down by the mid/late 90's, plus the internet, decline in record sales, etc...The cats today actually think the corporate materialism is cool, which is everything hip hop wasn't about from the start.
Rap is a youth driven genre, kids born in the 90s don't care for 90s music, they want to hear 2000's rap...The only way to reach the youth is if you have kids or nieces/nephews, educate them on the artists who were popular before they were born...You have to plant the seed early on...
@Adrianology101 And to answer your questions, yeah, I did listen to the music my parents did. And no I don't expect kids to listen to the same music I did. But I do expect them to RESPECT it. They can say "dad, I don't like this Biggie guy at all. I don't like the way he sounds or the stuff he talks about. But I understand that he paved the way for the stuff I like." That's all I'm saying.
If the new young breed of Hip Hop artists showed respect for their passed and gave credit to the old school, be it in interviews or on stage, this would ignite the younger fans into taking a listen to the history of the music, it would be like the early sixty's when young white musicians like the Rolling Stones, the Yardbirds, John Mayall ect played the music of the old blues legends and in turn brought then back into fashion, everything has a passed and we can always learn from it, just like war!!!
But MC'ing became the main attraction as early as the late-70's, when the "culture" of hip-hop was still in it's infancy. It's not like MC'ing and battle rapping became the main attraction waaaay later in the 90's, MC'ing and battle rapping was popular as early as the early-70's.
@mykectown yea man, i know its not a popular canonical opinion but joey is where it's at to me. i like rappers who keep a certain exciting tempo when they spit. it keeps me interested. the 80's pioneers just sound like they're talking. not all the time but enough to where it sounds boring. blah blah blah my opinion words words words and all that jazz.. joey has that introspective frustrated content that resonates with me. i wish people would look beyond pump it up.
Radiohead an alternative band if you will, is would be a perfect example of a different genre of music staying relevant to a certain age group and era of music and attracting all age groups that they appealed to over the years so yes Hip Hop does diss-respect the people who made it relevant becuase I think Hip Hop sells out a lot quicker than I think any other genre.
I do agree with but I'm 18, born in late 94 .. my top 5 consist of artists who started in the 90's .. a few years back I listened to a Wu Tand and 2Pac album and was curious about other artists and just started going back . And me going back led me to be more of a fan of 80s,90, and early 00s acts then of rappers of my era
@SSBMSynikaL I think the dude speaking towards the end was moving towards the points I wanted to see addressed. Hip Hop is subculture in a larger social structure and is seen as many as a response to said structure. Cultures are shared values. I think if you wanted to hit the nail on the head, here, you have to ask fundamental questions regarding what people value.
Everyone keeps thinking that the generational gap is the difference, which it is not. It's the conditioning of the youth by corporations that has changed the landscape of music. The corporations that create a culture of having everything instantaneously has deteriorated music. If it's not new and trendy, simplified in use and digestion, then the younger brain is, the easier it is to reject it. Young people are not conditioned to learn material based on depth, but how quickly it is absorbed.
Good lyrics was what got me into hip hop. With that said, I don't listen that much to the majority of the new, but I like Kendrick, Shad, Fashawn and those kind of guys. I really don't like the club/pop-hip hop songs. Common and Q-tip are still puttin' out records, but it's of course a slight difference from their old stuff. The thing with rock; there isn't really many that sounds like Led Zeppelin, Stones, Beatles - some sounds like Sabbath - but everyone respects them.
It really comes down to music preference really. Just because someone doesn't like KRS One music doesn't mean they aren't a fan of Hip Hop. Is there a step by step manuscript that says "you must listen to *insert OG name here* in order to appreciate the music now*. No...a lot of people forget that this culture was founded on the foundation of being open minded. Why can't cats now have the same freedom without be scrutinized like "oh you ain't a real hip hop fan" cause you don't listen to KRS.
LOL...that dude was on his phone throughout the entire discussion. Then, right at the end, he drops the realist truth...
great episode, guys.
hello Anthony
Baldy
damn, as a white guy who loves Rock & Hip Hop i gotta say that mike is the one who said the most intelligent words here. It's true that the people who loves metal they respect their leyeds but i dont see that in the Hip Hop's Communitiny
I saw a Kid at my High School wear a Tribe Called Quest shirt and another kid with a Wu Tang shirt.....so there's still some teens out there that respect the Pioneers.
Ever tried artists like Jay Electronica? Logic? Action Bronson? Bishop Nehru? CyHi The Prince? There's a lot of new school cats that are nice, just gotta look for 'em (and not JUST the underground, IMO).
Maya Laku Agreed, like all them dudes. I definitely need to dig through alot of new scool cats to find lyricist & Story stellers I connect with.. I love all music for different reasons. From and old school 80s & 90s LA DJ. Best 2 U Bro.
Maya Laku Nehru is next in line I hope Bronson is cool but he sounds too close to ghostface for me to really get into him. Not a logic fan Chyi latest project was pretty good. Other people to look at is Flatbush zombies them dudes is easily the best hip hop GROUP out right now.
When I worked in a high school, the kids were listening to 90's rap music, I was surprised. One simply said, Lil' Wayne sucks. LOL. But most kids i know do listen to Wayne.
i think a huge aspect is that hip hop is the youngest genre
and its evolving fast as fuck
faster than any other genre has, so the older stuff, while people can still respect it, is so fucking outdated so quickly
Joey badass is new school but with old school flavor. Respect
It's the instrumentals and rhyme patterns that I can't get over
Guy at the end had the best verse lmao . Snapped
Thank you for acknowledging that hip-hop was also founded as party music. I hate when ppl make it seem that hip-hop was historically a sociopolitical music. It was actually party/good time music and also became sociopolitical. . .
I agree with the last dude. Hip hop is the most progressive out of all the other genre's of music in my opinion. I feel like it's a good thing that hip hop is always about expending on whats done then worshiping the past, even though I know a few artist that are all about nostalgia trips. That being said, I still listen to Wu Tang and watch for when a new Ghostface album drops or any of them.
What I don't like about a lot of older hip hop fans is that they make you feel obligated to listen to what they deem "classics" however if you try to tell them about a newer artist they don't know about they claim it's not worthy of their time.
Personally, my favorite artist is Lupe Fiasco but I still try to keep a good mix of artist from all years in my collection...Key word is artist.
I feel like it's just the fact that the old heads like Rakim EPMD Tribe Etc don't want to sell out and do the type of music that caters to the generation that we are in. They stay true to their sound.
J. Nyce wrapped up that conversation real quick lol.
J. Nyce made the best point. I just recently became a big hip-hop fan, ever since i was introduced to J.Cole's Warm-Up tape. Since then, i've been following blogs and such looking out for all new things hip-hop. That said, it's hard to take the time to go back and listen to the legends/pioneers, given that we live in a generation that's impatient and only cares about what's hot and new. I love Nas, Beastie Boys, Run-DMC, and am in the process of listening to dudes like KRS-one, Rakim, Tribe etc
That's something I asked myself sometimes. I'm 17 years old and I'm a fan of hip-hop since I'm 12 and I always was like how can you listen to something without knowing how it started. Between old school and new school rap I choose old school rap hands down. But right now to me the teenagers (and older) are not open minded they just wanna stick to what the like and what they know. I have a nice quote from O.C that can summarize the all thing "I'd rather be broke and have a whole lot of respect"..
Dude at the end summed up this whole 20 plus min show in one sentence. The old guard of hip hop doesn't get respect because....they're old lol.
im 19years old and am bumping my bdp - live hardcore worldwide lp right now
there wouldnt be hip hop as it is today without guys like krs blowfly kurtis rakim and all of those legends that are still killing!!
EXACTLY. THERE WOULDN'T BE HIP-HOP WITHOUT ITS FOREFATHERS!
i'm 17 and i both respect and listen to old school hip hop. And I CAN relate to it because they were talking about life, and life is life no matter when you experience it
hip-hop is one of, if not the only genre that has its core audience completely willing to ignore and hate on the OG's of the genre. Most genres have a deep respect and open love to its founders, but hip-hop has gotten to a place where the audience, not necessarily the artists, but the audience straight up doesn't care about the OG's.
I’m so glad J. Nyce made that point I had been thinking that for the entire debate. Such a raw competitive element does not exist in other genres of music like it does in hip hop, at least not to the same degree. The practice of battling or beefing accompanied the genre since its inception. Based on this competitive mindset it’s only natural that the new school would not appreciate the old school.
The reason why so many rap veterans complain about rap music nowadays is because they have no one to pass the baton to. How many honestly dope rappers out there are getting exposure whom are below age 30 (besides Kendrick Lamar)? 25? 24? 23? Exactly. These guys (Nas, Common, etc.) are just one generation of rap (1990's) forced to make 2 generations worth of quality music (90's & 2000's). Even worse, some get no recognition. They're practically watching all their hard work crumble before them.
Its important to make the distinction between critical respect and commercial relevance. Most soul and Jazz artists don't sell a lot of records but the ones who have critical respect can tour all year round and make a living that way. Unfortunately the one department where rap music is still premature is in live performance. There are very few rappers I would pay money to see live because of my expectations for live music are beyond the standard of most rappers and their hype men.
I saw Lil Wayne wearing a Public Enemy shirt in one of his videos,
Em is nearly 40 and he's still the best selling rapper. He still sells out stadiums, makes 1 million per show, and still goes multiplatinum. Plus he still one of the most respected rappers out there.
To me it comes down to wanting to go back and here where Hip Hop came from and how it was created. I got into Hip Hop around 96 or 97 and I had to go back and listen to a lot of stuff to really see where hip hop came from.
The internet is really a gift & curse because without it I would have never heard all those old albums back then. Being from the south I never heard of ILLmatic or Reasonable Doubt. I remember streaming those albums back in the late 90s and falling in love with them.
so much respect was earned for myke when he mention voivod and kreator
J. Nyce nailed it. Hip hop has always been about "what's new" since the very beginning. MCees that evolve stay relevant and those that don't get dated, simple as that. The only disrespect is that coming from older fans (and rappers) criticizing the younger generation, like the hostility towards skinny jeans and "hipster rap" for example. And for those who say lyricism is dead, listen to Kendrick Lamar. I'm tired of the old man "Back in my day..." gripes.
nice discussion, and good input from the young kid
It was the older generation that threw the first punch by saying "hip hop is dead" the younger generation responded by saying "sit down old man". The kids are just countering the criticism they get. What they're really saying is: "Your old, u don't get it. Your taste in music is suck in another era."
Hip hop lives, it's just that the best of it is usually not on the radio or tv.
Yo big ups to Dead End Hip Hop! This is great. Mike you da man. I listen to wide variety of music too, and when you mentioned Metallica I about fell outta my chair.
Beneath the outer layer the train is black. You just don't disrespect the people that lay the tracks. You love this human expression and they gave you that. And so the least y'all can do is try and pay em back. - Brother Ali.
i fucking love these guys, they are just normal dudes talking about the music they love and its pretty funny too
It is what it is. I don't roll wit the rap fans. I'm a music fan, so if I ain't getting what I need from rap, I've got soul, funk, jazz, bossa nova to fill the void. As long as Nas is still releasing albums that's all I need from the rap game. Now if Slick Rick could drop another album, that would just be the icing on the cake.
Lyrics are pretty much the only thing I look out for in music today. Thats why Ghostface is still one my fav rappers. The dude is always telling stories and not just randomly talking about money and girls like most rappers. I think ever track should be based around 1 topic.
The message of hip hop as defined by the Universal Zulu Nation (the founders) is and always has been Peace, Love, Unity, and Having Fun...PERIOD! I have been to the Rocksteady Crew Anniversary every year since 2007 and I will tell you that there are many young people in the audience who are learning the true elements from the older cats both in the audience and on stage. The essence of hip hop culture can not be found on television or radio, but believe me, it's still alive and still relevant.
Dudes the foundations were centered around emceeing, graffiti, brake'n, and the dj's. this combination was brought together to spread knowledge. That's the real truth about the origin of hip hop. Battle rapping and other variations that came later have been misrepresented as being far more important than they are in modern terms.
This generation of rap listeners, from 2000 to now, have a lack of knowledge and or respect for the rappers of old school. When I was a teen I appreciated and liked some of the music that my parents listened to that I would consider to be old school. That's another problem, this generation doesn't respect good music.
Not true at all I respect a lot of the older rappers because they actually had talent instead of relying on catchiness or production. But I still don't listen to all of them because I personally don't like majority of older rappers aside from snoop, Em, biggie, etc.
DUDE AT THE END WAS SO SPOT ON
@ICONLISTENING1 You always come on here and wild out. Haha. Thanks for watching homie. And appreciate the comments as always.
It all comes full circle. I feel in love with Hip-Hop in 1991 when I was 11. I still remember being from California listening to Lighter Shade of Brown, Geto Boys, South Central Cartel and of course Ice Cube. But over time around 1993, it evolved to a point that I felt I related more to the music than even two years earlier. From 1993-2004, I really felt I connected with the genre. I was also between 13-24 years old, which would be my youth, so that had a lot to do with it. I wasn't feeling the 80's during that time. I had some favorites, but I didn't like BDP, though I liked KRS-One's solo work in the 90's. I wasn't feeling that Miami bass of 2 Live Crew, or Eric B and Rakim after Paid in Full, or a lot of the 80's outside a few songs like the Message or Slick Rick Bedtime Story or Eazy E Boyz in the Hood. Over the years I really did get into 80's hip hop and I really enjoy it and understand it, and the rawness of the early stuff. And that's were these kids are at. They don't get what we did in the 90's and early 2000's. They don't get gangsta culture, or the riots, or Thug Life, or colors, or anyone of that. These kids today have their own reality, they have their own struggles and they find their own voices they want to listen to. I remember rapping to Doggystyle in my dad's truck and he laughed. I asked what's up? All he said was, "my dad hated the Beatles too." LMAO. And with that in realized I'll hate my son's music and I wouldn't understand it. But my dad did like some of my music, like he loved Nate Dogg's never leave me alone and he did like 2Pac's Me Against the World album and actually felt sympathy for him. So all and all, it's just a new day and in a post-Ferguson world, I do see a switch back to lyrics as Kendrick Lamar is the most talked about rapper I hear about now. So we'll see.
Eminem is definitely not considered a hip hop pioneer. Either is Jay-Z. We were more talking about people like Kool G Rap, KRS, Rakim, etc. Nothing against Jay or Em. Just making a correction.
So true, in the beginning rappers were just an accent to the DJ's. battle rapping didn't become big until later on in the culture. Hip hop began with DJ's spinning breaks, bboys busting it out on the floor, and the graff writers were writing on the walls, the emcee was simply a call and response "hype man" for the DJ. Of course things have changed, but this is the actual fact.
I'm 17. The point that I'm making is that how can you appreciate someone who is "hot" now when you don't even appreciate someone who came before them? No music exists in a vacuum. It's not bad because it's new, it is getting a huge load of complaints because most rappers today are trying to be copycats, and most fans are ignorant and/or close minded.
From MCing (the actual lyrical ones) to DJing (again the real ones) to breaking to writing - all these things are art forms that require extreme levels of skill, innovation, and DEDICATION.
when something with such a high level of required dedication gets pulled as far into the mainstream cesspool as modern day hip hop is, its easy to understand why people prefer cheap shit. This is the fucking "fast food" era of hip hop.
DUDE AT THE END KILLED IT
@trumpetLAD93 Appreciate the feedback. Our videos will always sit in the 15 minute range mark. If we feel the need to go over, we have to due to the nature of the conversation. It's hard to have an indepth discussion on this nature or any nature of conversation we have had in five or seven minutes. Our reviews will typically range in the 8-10 minute mark. Thanks for watching and giving us 15 minutes of your time. We really appreciate it. Hope you stay with us!
Here's the reason. And it involves one single word.
*Ego*
Debate over.
Great documentary and mad respect for everyone involved in making it from the camera man on down to the guests.
Btw , I am 45 years old and would have loved to been in this discussion group.
@Cael2012 You're welcome. Thanks for watching! Comment away. We love to see it and comment back where we can. Always appreciate any insight on our conversations from the viewing public.
Rap seems to be the only genre of music where an old school rapper is considered too old when a old school R&B singer isn't.
@mykectown Hip hop production has improved over time immensely, becoming more complex, expanding the sound hip hop, and crossing genres. Yes it did progress at the expense of lyrics to an extent, but u can still find spitters and lyricists if u look for them. It seems to me that your asking for a 80's-90's hip hop revival, as if u never wanted hip hop to change from that time.
Ask yourself this: Did u listen to the same music as your parents? Do u expect kids to listen to the same music as u?
awesome as always
90's is amazing
@viberocsf KRS-One was just a reference that we knew people would instantly relate too. We also threw out Kool G Rap, Big Daddy Kane, Kool Moe Dee, and more. I felt like we were picking on KRS-One.
I am young listener, only 18 so I grew up with this HipHop era, I was detached from the 90s music but altho I listen to today's music (more experimental, lyrical and underground hip hop) I still appreciate old HipHop, with records like BlackStar, 36 Chambers, Ilmatic, Low End Theory The diary.. I don't get how people can call it wack
That's a big reason hip hop doesn't progress like it should. People get stuck on only making what's currently hot. Not building from it. You would never hear someone like Toby Keith call Waylon Jennings bullshit. Just like you wouldn't hear Beyonce call Aretha bullshit. There is a level of respect there. Even if they don't personally listen to the pioneers, they know what they did and they respect them for it. That was the basis for the discussion, but it turned into a debate of personal taste.
Jay-Z concerts are still amazing. The amount of money he puts in to the production makes it worth it. Plus, the man has so many hit songs, he literally can do a 2 hour concert of just his singles. That's not even adding any favorite album cuts. And I love the live band he always uses in concert, makes alot of his tracks sound even better.
@ajutah4 Agreed! Here is my take; hip hop is like a team (any sport). You need stars, role players, coaches and owners. Your stars are those who sucessfully push envelopes (commercial or underground). Your role players are the ones who stay in their lane and do a good job, ie Jay Rock. Your coaches are dudes like Snoop who stay relevant and coach some new cats. Owners are corporate whose job it is to sell you a product and market it as the best that there is and you would be foolish not to buy
To Myke's point about metal bands, I think the reason new/popular bands acknowledge old school bands, is because metal is marketed to and underground audience/scene and respecting older bands is seen as part of the lifestyle.
Popular rap, on the other hand, is about selling your life and your swag. Rapping about how you're the greatest rapper ever doesn't really fit in with saying KRS-One or anyone other than you is a legend.
Maybe lil wayne would wear a KRS-One shirt if they cost $400?
@Myprops18 There will be a second release. We will dive into many different conversations around the old school and new school.
Although I agree it's disparaging that kids dunno anything about the founders - did previous generations of hip hop really embrace the generation before them? For instance, did Big Daddy Kane or Rakim make records with Busy Bee? Nope they thought that shit was old and tired. Did Nas enlist Marley Marl to make his first record? Nope, because Marl was the previous generation. Just like how teenagers want to deny they are anything like their parents - kids wanna think they are doing something new.
There's not too much love there's too much "ohh you're a hater" everyone's scared of being a "hater" or different
im 15 years old, my Parents Introduced me to Public Enemy, RUN DMC, BDP, etc. and yes when i was growing up i would listen to artist like lil wayne and such but i asked my self one time, let me listen to the artist that started it all, so then i did my research, when i found about Wu Tang, Sugar Hill Gang, rakim. etc. i refused to listen to artist today, and thats what kids my age dont do they dont do not by respect to the people that started it all.
The fans problem is they don't listen to rap because it's good, they listen to rap based off of if it's hot or not. While other genres tend to listen to what's good, so more times talent is the new "it" thing in that genre. Since talent is always one of the key elements for a fan they will enjoy the older stuff. In hip-hop the key element is being hot and they don't care about talent so they couldn't care less about the old dudes.
I get it. In Hip Hop, artists "fall off" and get old as opposed to paving the way or laying foundation.
Pretty fuckin square if you ask me.
To make another point:
@Mike C Town I believe you see more Metal fans have an appreciation for their pioneers because metal went through its phase of not being top 40. I'm 21 and I remember when I was a little younger I hated hearing boy bands and pop singers. So I would latch to heavy metal and thus listen to Black Sabbath or Slayer
Hip hip for the majority of its lifespan has been integrated with top 40. There isn't a threat from another genre to make people want to hold on their classics.
man i love this fuckin show yall bring up the best points and topics
@theguy134 It kind of is. They call it pop rap now. Thanks for watching.
Its a couple of things.. Number 1, the TRENDINESS. Kids wanna hear what is on the radio at the moment because that's what their friends are listening to, so that's whats hot. Number 2, lyrical content. Kids today don't really have that emotional connection to the art of rhyming. Back in the day, it was about putting a hard beat on, and the MC just going in and rhyming his ass off, with scratches in between the verses. Kids today fantasize about the hot women, money, the jewelry, the night life, etc. And that's what those guys talk about. As ignorant and derivative as it is, that's what they love to hear about because that's what they wanna hear.
So dam sad but true I can't even be mad.
@Cloudkicker7x I'm working on something new that can help you out some more as well. Thanks for watching.
Hiphop first came in the early 70s, but the rapping part did not appear until around 1977-78 where some of the first was The furious five 1nd Sugarhill gang.
Then in the early 80s it grew. They then had Run DMC, The Fat boys, Ice T etc, etc.
And in mid 80s the first Latin rapper began to become famous and that was Kid Frost, NWA Started around there also and gangsta rap became famous about 2 years later, it will say around 1986-1988. Then in early and mid 90s the rap scene was bigger then ever.
"A lot of Hip-Hop fans nowadays are youth fans..."
Hip-Hop has ALWAYS had youth fans. In fact, it was started by urban youth. Rappers that were between the ages of 18-25 anywhere from 13-28 years ago were dropping classic albums in their day.
Ex: -Lauryn Hill was 20 when The Fugees dropped "The Score"
-Mos Def was about 25 when he released "Black On Both Sides"
-Outkast dropped three classic albums before they were 25 (ATLiens, Aquemini, Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik).
Yea, When older rappers try to come back out they tend to merge their old and new styles to gain new fans but instead lose both because the new school thinks they sound too old school and the old fans think they sound too new school.
loving what you guys are doing!
gotta say i love the old school stuff ny favourites being nas and commonsense. and what got me into that stuff was my love for lupe i had to checkout the history as you guys were saying, LYRICISM over popping bottles anyday.
i was just listening to KRS ones song "hip hop lives" and the legend said it himself
"Hip means to know
It's a form of intelligence
To be hip is to be up-date and relevant"
just though that was interesting in todays context haha
my 2 cents
What most people dont understand is that when you are younger, most of the time you gravitate towards whats being played at the moment which is the cool thing to do. Your young and you really dont know any better. I do think it is ignorant for kids of this generation who love hip hop to not go back and study what came before. Not all of us should be put in the same category. Above all I love rhyming, flow, and lyricism in hip hop which was something that was very common in the early days.
That dude at the end bodied everybody with his opinion.
I don't think young people are completely disrespectful to the predecessors of contemporary hip hop. I do see a lot of kids as young as 14 listening to Tupac, Notorious B.I.G., N.W.A. and even sometimes Wu Tang Clan. Granted not too many of those artists put out their own records anymore seeing as how they're either dead or focusing on producing or other career endeavors, but I still think there's a genuine respect for them.
In my opinion when cooperations got into the business of Hip Hop, Hip Hop hasn't been the same. Money is ruining Hip Hop, money took the passion out of Hip Hop and replace it with greed.
I really enjoyed this topic please there's a PART 2?1
that kid had the knowledge of a fuckin 15 year old northamerican . hhhhhmmmmmmmmmm that makes me think
I agree man though, I'm 14 from Australia and I probably know more about hip hop then most people out (not meaning to sound like a brag) I think it's the love of the culture that just makes kids like me want to dig into the roots of hip hop.
All the best rappers are North American... Not sure what you're talking about
Outdated flows and instrumentals is the main difference between new and old
Idk about flows but your right about the instrumentals and production.
people dont know big daddy kane and jay are the same age born the same year
I think metal bands keep relevant with merchandising and through the general culture, from what I know you hardly see coverage on old bands in hip hop magazines the same way it happens in metal
Legends are respected I always show people who dont know any legends a song by one of them and their like who that ill be like nas kieth murray ect and they ve like damn cus they make them think
Sadly, people like us aren't the majority or the norm.
Busta Rhymes came with leaders of the new school. He is still connecting with the youth as well
KRS ONE dissed his pioneer MC Shan because he felt as though he was the best.
He had an interview which he talks about how things circle around & how the new generation will do the same to him. That's the game, even the pioneers did the same.
***** Yep!!
***** Thank you for clearing that up because I was about to go off.
***** True that.
@TekRell - YEP! As Black Thought said in "What They Do" - "The elements of true hip hop have been forsaken" DeeJay, EmCee, B-Boy, Graffiti. I will rep the true culture that I grew up with and continue on doing so until I'm dead. I think it has a lot to do with the fact the culture was SO watered down by the mid/late 90's, plus the internet, decline in record sales, etc...The cats today actually think the corporate materialism is cool, which is everything hip hop wasn't about from the start.
Rap is a youth driven genre, kids born in the 90s don't care for 90s music, they want to hear 2000's rap...The only way to reach the youth is if you have kids or nieces/nephews, educate them on the artists who were popular before they were born...You have to plant the seed early on...
@encdee You're killin me, bro! Hahha!
Pause at 5:56.
@Adrianology101 And to answer your questions, yeah, I did listen to the music my parents did. And no I don't expect kids to listen to the same music I did. But I do expect them to RESPECT it. They can say "dad, I don't like this Biggie guy at all. I don't like the way he sounds or the stuff he talks about. But I understand that he paved the way for the stuff I like." That's all I'm saying.
If the new young breed of Hip Hop artists showed respect for their passed and gave credit to the old school, be it in interviews or on stage, this would ignite the younger fans into taking a listen to the history of the music, it would be like the early sixty's when young white musicians like the Rolling Stones, the Yardbirds, John Mayall ect played the music of the old blues legends and in turn brought then back into fashion, everything has a passed and we can always learn from it, just like war!!!
But MC'ing became the main attraction as early as the late-70's, when the "culture" of hip-hop was still in it's infancy. It's not like MC'ing and battle rapping became the main attraction waaaay later in the 90's, MC'ing and battle rapping was popular as early as the early-70's.
@mykectown yea man, i know its not a popular canonical opinion but joey is where it's at to me. i like rappers who keep a certain exciting tempo when they spit. it keeps me interested. the 80's pioneers just sound like they're talking. not all the time but enough to where it sounds boring. blah blah blah my opinion words words words and all that jazz..
joey has that introspective frustrated content that resonates with me. i wish people would look beyond pump it up.
Radiohead an alternative band if you will, is would be a perfect example of a different genre of music staying relevant to a certain age group and era of music and attracting all age groups that they appealed to over the years so yes Hip Hop does diss-respect the people who made it relevant becuase I think Hip Hop sells out a lot quicker than I think any other genre.
I do agree with but I'm 18, born in late 94 .. my top 5 consist of artists who started in the 90's .. a few years back I listened to a Wu Tand and 2Pac album and was curious about other artists and just started going back . And me going back led me to be more of a fan of 80s,90, and early 00s acts then of rappers of my era
@SSBMSynikaL I think the dude speaking towards the end was moving towards the points I wanted to see addressed. Hip Hop is subculture in a larger social structure and is seen as many as a response to said structure. Cultures are shared values. I think if you wanted to hit the nail on the head, here, you have to ask fundamental questions regarding what people value.
Everyone keeps thinking that the generational gap is the difference, which it is not. It's the conditioning of the youth by corporations that has changed the landscape of music. The corporations that create a culture of having everything instantaneously has deteriorated music. If it's not new and trendy, simplified in use and digestion, then the younger brain is, the easier it is to reject it. Young people are not conditioned to learn material based on depth, but how quickly it is absorbed.
Good lyrics was what got me into hip hop. With that said, I don't listen that much to the majority of the new, but I like Kendrick, Shad, Fashawn and those kind of guys. I really don't like the club/pop-hip hop songs.
Common and Q-tip are still puttin' out records, but it's of course a slight difference from their old stuff.
The thing with rock; there isn't really many that sounds like Led Zeppelin, Stones, Beatles - some sounds like Sabbath - but everyone respects them.
It really comes down to music preference really. Just because someone doesn't like KRS One music doesn't mean they aren't a fan of Hip Hop. Is there a step by step manuscript that says "you must listen to *insert OG name here* in order to appreciate the music now*. No...a lot of people forget that this culture was founded on the foundation of being open minded. Why can't cats now have the same freedom without be scrutinized like "oh you ain't a real hip hop fan" cause you don't listen to KRS.