Black Mask change in the Arkham Games
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- Опубліковано 26 кві 2024
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My head canon is that he made a helmet version of it to cover his face due to how damaged it looks which is something he has done in the main DC comics.
But it’s still pretty weird how he ditched the white suit and helmet after origins to wear a shirt and a thinner latex mask in arkham city and went back to wearing a suit and helmet in knight
@@hiimsaulcavemanTo be fair he was in jail in Arkham City so he didn’t have his outfit
@@hiimsaulcaveman I like to think of it as Roman's way of stating he's planning to take Gotham's organized crime back to the good old days of Arkham Origins.
Batman is dead and Two-Face is in jail so now it's all going back to basics so no more raggy clothes he's going back to a suit that commands respect and wearing a mask that no longer reflects his failure.
New HC
I like that idea like he’s ashamed of the mask being stuck to his face or just wants to look semi normal
Not necessarily a retcon. The mask in Arkham City looks like a weaker material, so maybe he decided to put a 2nd mask over his actual mask so that he can take a punch better. Another theory: In Origins, Roman Sionis is described as paranoid and likes to send decoys to places where he knows the situation might be dangerous. So it's possible that the Black Mask in Arkham Knight isn't even Roman, but one of his loyal goons. I doubt Roman himself would confront someone as dangerous as Red Hood. Not his style.
Either way it's the same suit and mask as Origins, Roman got sloppier since as evidenced by City, but it could go either way.
Regardless aesthetically Knight and Origins Sionis are pretty much identical.
Unlike the SS:KTJL Deadshot retcon, this one would fit right in considering it's already established in Origins and the Black Mask in the Red Hood DLC acts so out of sync with his Arkham Origins and even City appearance that it can be explained away by saying that it wasn't the real Sionis.
true nice theory
I mean Arkham city Roman is blonde and in origins he has black hair so that would make sense
@@Thebloodguy Could've just dyed it
"Say hi to Joker for me"
Red hood line
@@NFfan456really? no way. thought it was a Alfred line
@@broski7111I thought it was a line from candy from origins!
@@NFfan456 but jonkler is dead and block mast is also dead, how can they say hi to each other? Also, they guys hood is grey, not red. Are you stoopid?
Blakc mask doesn’t say that
It is said in origins that Roman Sionnis is paranoid and often has his decoys like in lacey towers so maybe the one in knight is not Roman but someone else
That's exactly what I was going to say. The Black Mask we saw in AK it's not the real one but another of his decoys
I used to say this but people told me I was blatantly wrong so I stopped. This still makes the most sense to me, I don't think Jay actually killed Sionis
@@DylanHuttofor sure understand what you mean 👍!
This is my head canon.
That is actually a cool theory. We can add that Roman Sionis might be paranoid, but his reaction in Knight when confronted by Red Hood seems out of character after what we saw of him in Origins.
In Batman™: Arkham Knight he has his old look of Batman™: Arkham Origins.
the model for black mask changed from AC to AO bc of the different developers, since AK was made directly after AO they probably just copied the look exactly
They should have keeped his mask model from Arkham City for continuity purposes
I honestly prefer the knight one because it being grafted makes him look like red skull but black
Aye, but is something more distinct not the better choice even if you prefer Red Skull design wise?
@@enemystand2981he’s saying that the knight one is better because it isn’t like red skull
@@leafysstream108 I must’ve had a drink in me or something haha, my bad.
The Origins and Knight design for Black Mask is one of the best character designs in all of DC
In the last clip when the lighting flashes, you can kinda see some black skin where black masks eyes are. Maybe thats the mask we see in Arkham City, and the silver one is more of a helmet.
It definitely could be an extra layer *because* he's used as a punching bag so much.
prolly just makeup like batman uses
It's exactly the same as Arkham Origins
@@ArkhamverseJoker That was my thought as well.
@@ArkhamverseJoker thats most likely, but batman does it to hide his identity(i think), black mask has nothing to hide because people know who he is. So what if its not?
I think it makes sense, after Origins he burned his face with one of his masks in a fire and it stuck to his flesh, similar to the Penguin with the bottle in his eye. When Roman was finally able to separate it from his flesh he was so disfigured by burns that he returned to using his old iron mask.
my first introduction to blackmask was Batman under the Red Hood, so I thought his mouth was supposed to move
I prefer his Arkham City design. I like the idea that his mask was burned and stuck on his face. Plus he looks scary
In my head I think that the Arkham city one was a mask, hence the crack and break in it, so after the events of city he ditched the rest of it to make a stronger helmet type
The mask was seared to his flesh due to a fire. He can’t ditch it.
You can also find his mask on a wall in Asylum
It could be possible that the Black mask from Arkham knight is just a doppelganger because we know Black Mask is a paranoid guy(as it was explained in Arkham Origins)
I honestly love the origins/knight design
It looks way better than the bac design
i have to disagree.
I think his new mask is cooler looking
I heard it wasnt really him tho
When the hell was black mask in Arkham City?
That’s legit what I’m saying cuz I beat that game more then 20 times now and I don’t remember him at all 😭
@@dutchduck6328 did you guys play the Arkham episodes? Red hoods had black mask in it if I remember correctly
@@marcellusbens6742that was in Arkham Knight not City
He was in a DLC challenge map. Had a very mini campaign where you chased him on a train. Interesting challenge map, too
Right when you enter Arkham City as Bruce Wayne at the beginning of the game, if you look carefully you can see him getting beat up and tasered by the Tiger Guards in the background. He talks briefly as it happens if you look at him.
They liked the origins design so much they reused it without thinking of continuity
I personally think the one from Knight is a decoy similar to Origins, we all know how paranoid Sionis can be. As for Origins, It's likely from before the mask was grafted to his face, similar to how penguin is yet to lose his eye.
Unlike the SS:KTJL Deadshot retcon, this one would fit right in imo considering it's already established in Origins and the Black Mask in the Red Hood DLC acts so out of sync with his Arkham Origins and even City counterparts. I'd hope he comes back and shines using this explanation if they ever made another continuation of the Arkhamverse.
I swear in Arkham Origins Blackgate that side scroller kinda sequel to Arkham Origins we see black mask get the mask burned to his face. I'll have to double check.
@@wil2560 I don't know if you got your answer by now but yes, he gets his mask grafted onto his face as a result of the fire from a generator exploding.
The red hood dlc was developed by wb Montreal so they reused their asset from Arkham origins
no one’s talking about how his mask is in a case (separate from his head lol) in Arkham Asylum, which also points to it being removable
They did bro dirty. Tbr he could’ve been his own anti-hero. Both him & Bruce Wayne had similar experiences of losing their parents. He could’ve started off as the mov boss we know but changed his ways & became a protector of Gotham & not been afraid to kill like Batman, kinda like Red Hood. Would’ve been pretty cool tbr
Could have had the original removed either voluntarily or involuntarily, leaving his face without skin and horrifically scarred, since it’s fused to his face. His mask is the reflection of his inner persona so it would make sense for him to continue wearing a new one after.
Maybe they just redesigned the character
Not necessariky a retcon
Pretty sure the implication of the mask not being removable in the earlier design does make it a retcon.
If he didn't return in that short story in Knight it could still work. The Mask burning onto his head sometime after Origins. They could've stayed consistent if they use an updated model from City, and not Origins.
not mentioned in the video but you also see a mask of his in Arkham Asylum which adds credibility to the layered mask idea
I honestly thought I was the only one. I peeped it when I was younger but just thought I was trippin
I think they changed it because the black mask in Arkham city was side content, and the one in the knight DLC is closer to what we saw in origins to go along with firefly and Deathstroke.
Arkham Asylum had his mask on a wall like the one we see in Arkham Knight could be because Origins was made by Splash Damage and WB Montreal while the rest are made by Rocksteady and published by Warners Bros Interactive Entertainment I do agree I like the originality of Origins reminds me of the 2004 batman and how they had a twist on all the characters
The one in knight looks ripped straight out of origins, either out of developer laziness or it's a decoy on purpose. Either way they probably straight up forgot about the arkham city one, since he's mainly delegated to challenge maps
It’s just because Arkham origins changed the design and the people who made origins help make some dlc and other stuff in Arkham knight but I don’t know for sure
You literally see his face in origins. It’s just a different mask design. He can take both of them off.
Black masks face was like that so he made himself another mask a fancier one to suite him
it also takes away the fact he made the mask out of his fathers coffin
I believe that it wasn’t retconned at all and he just wears a helmet now over his face
What’s weirder is the fact that Arkham origins black gate actually has black mask suffering an accident that has his mask permanently stuck to his face
i believe arkham origins blackgate has something to do with it it has 3 different endings depends on the last villain u defeat and what if they made it non canon and decided to do either joker or penguin's ending canon?
The city design is too cool
"Roman Sionis, I like the second one."
This guy sounds like he just discovered the arkhamverse last year
it wasnt supposed to be retconned. cuz remember in origins. him and joker wore it snd was taking it off
thats the same model from arkham origins, and particularly is my favorite model of black mask😅
Kept the mask because the mask is Burned to his face in the comics, but this oufit they went with made him look like an Ex Detective more then a Crime family member
I think the reason why they did that was because Arkham origins is technically canon to the story, and because it was made prior Arkham Knight, They wanted to do something close to it so that way people know that it’s from that same universe, they’ve done a few things to the game that was from Arkham origins as well including Deathstroke, You just gotta look for them.
The new mask looks cooler, less cartoonish
When I remember it correctly wasn't Sionis possessed by the mask in the comics, or something like that
"How about you go to hell. Say hi to joker for me"
If I’m not mistaken, you see it get burned onto his face in Origins Blackgate.
theory: in knight thats not the real black mask, its an impostor (like he did in origins)
didn't even know he was in arkham city...
Either the one in Arkham Knight was a body double or rocksteady just got lazy
The reason is popular due to demand. They found the look/character design better than the arkahm city design.
I think its same as deathstroke case. Its recycled model from arkham origins.
Ngl it looked way to weird
He also isn't blond in origins
Well in Arkham Asylum we see his mask in a display case so it's clearly been confiscated, and after the inmates were transferred to Arkham City it's likely he didn't get it back. So I'm guessing he just made a makeshift one with the few materials the city had. Also his Arkham knight look is the same from Origins, so after the city was shut down he probably just got his old gear back.
The whole story of Black Mask that his mask at one point got melted into his face and that's what we remember so what they did to his mask in Arkham Khight was done dirty
Black mask also had his mask off in the church mission in batman Arkham origins as well prefer him with his mask on 😷
I like the mild "horror" themes these games have.
The version of him in Arkham Knight is the same design from Arkham Origins, so I think they re-used that model because it would be easier to fit the aesthetic of that game, rather than the Arkham City version, which would need to be re-designed, which is something that probably wasn't worth it for one level of the challenge maps. It also connects to the version people are more familiarised with in the franchise. I think it's even the same actor. It does feel weird, however, because even though continuity wise it makes sense for Roman to go from the version we see in Origins to the crazed up version from City, it doesn't make much sense to then go back to the original iteration. But hey, continuity in these games isn't the most consistent either way. Just look how Gordon aged like crazy from Origins to Asylum, and then got a bit younger in Knight.
Same here, but replace Black Mask with Mad Hatter
I don't have a head canon but from a developer perspective (I'm no designer though so I can only speculate) is that:
1. Black Mask is an easy cameo to miss in the beginning of Arkham City and you only ever see him elsewhere in this specific Robin DLC, so most might not be familiar with this design or know he was even in the game at all.
2. Since it's a completely covered face, they likely updated the model to make sure it looked nicer but this one doesn't have any moving parts and it's a short DLC. So they didn't want to make the work more tedious for themselves. His tie doesn't move, his suit is slim to his body so no movement there, and they wouldn't have to worry about lip syncing the lines if they chose the mouth that doesn't move. Basically this option was likely easier so they said fuck it and just went with that.
It’s my personal headcanon that the Black Mask we see Jason fighting in Knight isn’t Roman Sionis.
There’s this discrepancy that adds evidence to this, but there’s also the fact that his personality in Knight conflicts with what we see in Origins and even City - Roman Sionis _never_ begs for his life. Not when he’s tied up and beaten and facing down a psychopath while surrounded by traitors, not when he’s being interrogated by Batman, not when he’s surrounded by armed TYGER guards and only has the back of a chair to defend himself.
His response to distress, fear, hopelessness, degradation, pain, etc. is anger and direct threats. Never pleading, never bargaining. So it seems weird that he would suddenly start begging for Jason not to kill him and offering to pay him off instead of promising to kill Jason instead.
Plus there’s also the fact that we learn that Roman is paranoid and often sends out decoys to handle things where possible death is a risk factor. So it’s likely that this is who we see Jason fighting and killing - a decoy.
As for why Jason wouldn’t recognize such discrepencies, it’s possible that his personal run-ins with Black Mask were few and far between - and Roman’s mask fusing to his face possibly happened during the period of time that Jason was being imprisoned and tortured by Joker and never learned of the incident after the events of Knight.
So, yeah. Personally, I don’t think that’s the real Black Mask. There are too many discrepencies and contradictions to reasonably say otherwise.
Plot twist: The Black Mask that Red Hood kills in AK isn't the real one, but instead a decoy, just like he used to operate in AO. That's why his mask is removable and not grafted to his face.
Might be because of origins, I thought they retconned it there too
The Black Mask in the White suit that Red Hood interrogates and then kills isn’t the real Black Mask. He even has a different voice
Imma have black mask have the metted skull but have it look a little more like the origins/knight design because it looks more form fitted on the head
I like to think Roman got his original mask surgically removed and he put on the new one to hide the severe scarring and 3rd degree burns.
you can find his origins mask in the gcpd
Origins happens before city, even the police still view Batman as a vigilante in origins so the reason for black mask “new mask” is probably because he is just starting out in the world of crime
I think the Origins design is better tbh
Yeah it goes so much harder in every direction.
There’s multiple black masks at different times in Batman canon
I like the Arkham origins one it makes him look very gangster specially with the suit he is wearing Arkham city he looks like a strange old man
Its because if China. They have issues with skulls in their games so they probably retcon it because of this. For example before his redesign a Champion in League of Legends called Karthus had a different model in China because he was a Skeleton.
Yeah I kinda agree… the new design doesn’t raape
My personal head cannon is the second is not black mask. He is a double.he is known to do that.
Scarecrow did something similar in knight so I’m sure that’s why
*me who 100℅ new game plus* BLACK MASK is in Arkham City? I know he was referrenced a lot but still
Wait, where does it say specifically in any arkham lore that black mask has his mask permanently stuck to his face?
In asylum I think from the riddles
i mean in arkham asylum it was hanging on a wall so presumably it could always be taken off
Origins it's taken off, worn by decoys and Joker, Asylum it's hung up with a description of how it got there, Arkham City stories basically say that it's stuck to his head same as the character model showing it and finally the Red Hood Dlc is a playable Under The Red Hood.
Either it's a decoy or the actual Sionis figured out how remove his City one and just reverted back to his Origins look for Knight after getting his shit together and taking advantage of power struggle opportunities.
Imo the Origins design is the better design. It's sleeker and more refined. City's looks borderline goofy in comparison.
They reference that in Batman and Robin Bad Blood. It’s a movie on max. And in it black mask has his mask from origins and then Damian blows up his face and then it becomes grafted to his face. Not sure if it’s connected to the Arkham games but still fun little thing that they did there.
My head cannon is that his mask is off during city and during the train campaign but when it’s on it looks like knight
Dc hasn't been using him that much anymore and that's a shame because he can be one of the best live action Bat rouges
Maybe because it looked like red skull
I think it would look alot cooler if his mask design was the same for the Red Hood DLC
The origins look is just so clean to me. The city look has a lot of character and depth with it being a part of his face but man is he hard to look at. Like other people said, I think this is a decoy and not the real black mask. However, Roman’s hair is black in origins while it looks blonde in city so is that a retcon?
Yeah, the devs got lazy and used the Arkham Origins character model, wheras i would have just used the City model; didn't even have to update it if they couldn't be bothered
I think the Black Mask we saw in Arkham Knight was actually a decoy (cos in Arkham Origins we also saw a decoy), meaning that the real Black Mask is still out there
not really the decoy was wearing different colors and the mask is kinda different looks like a henchmen mask
Not really a retcon more or less the devs were too busy too make a new design so they just used the model from origins
I think Batman was chasing all of the copys through this games but Jason on the other hand known about the whole copy thing he is a mercenary after all
I think is it not more, Origins retcons it. Which is a different studio.
I honestly like the way he removes the mask makes him a more real villain than a goofy looking black skeleton dude
Dude i get u liked it, i have to admit it looked kinda cool, i personally prefer the design in knight tho, but the reason they couldnt make it like that is well... because that would literally be like copying twofaces face.
I prefer the Arkham Origins design 💀
Arkham Asylum had a mask on Dr. Young's office which is a similar design to Arkham cities. It's also more likely he's wearing a second more metallic mask for protection it's unlikely a retcon.
Well the Batman Arkham origins one is a younger version right? Made Arkham Blackman went through something that melted the mask on to him
In some comics, he wears a mask on top of the mask that's stuck to his face
There was more to black mask in arkham city? I didn't even know he had a death screen. I thought we only see him at the beginning and that was it
This DLC was made by WB Games Montreal, who made Arkham Origins. So they probably just updated their own model rather than mess with City's.