This is why rock is DYING (and Twitter hates me)
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2023
- This is why rock is dying and Twitter is very angry at me! Where is the next Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, Fall Out Boy or Paramore? Is it Bring Me The Horizon, Sleep Token or Bad Omens?
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Ong!!
The band Maneskin seems like it's making some waves. They are young, twenty somethings who have sold 40 million records worldwide, have accumulated 21 million Spotify listeners, opened for Guns N' Roses and there third album (which in many ways is there international debut) went to number 18 on the Billboard 200. For an Italian band, I find all of that not only impressive, but rather exciting. Plus, Damiano David is a VERY charismatic front man.
In a similar story please talk about the band Haken paying people to react to them because nobody reacts to them. I guess Become the Knight the shill is going to whore himself out to take the money to react to Haken, can this be good for metal?
Finn may I take your order?😂
You have to do the “Name Test”. Ask a stranger to name a current charting rockstar. Then ask to name one from the 90s, 80s, or earlier. That’s when you’ll see there are no superstars
As a rock and metal fan, I appreciate you pointing a mirror to the fans, and making them face reality. I find it absolutely hilarious that a good portion of the fans wanna live in a fantasy land, where a band can be both mainstream but also not mainstream at the same time. It’s bonkers.
What the hell do you think System of a Down was? They were not mainstream whilst being extremely mainstream. Their music is still inaccessible to normies like Finn.
@@TallicaMan1986 System of a Down is an awesome band, I really enjoyed their album “Toxicity” and have listened to it multiple times.
However, I still think if you asked 10 average people, or I.e “Normies, not your metal heads or your die-hard music fans, who System of a Down was, I’d bet you 1, maybe 2 would know who they are if we’re lucky. And if they did they’d probably only know them for “Chop suey” or “Ariels”.
It's hilarious that you think that band isn't accessible to Finn. Because he's a normie apparently? They were accessible to 13 year Olds ffs. I know because I was one of them. All my friends were into them. They were and are still a huge band. Pull your head out of your arse.
@@stocktonjames888 BYOB and Lonely Day was popular outside of Chop Suey!, Toxicity and Aerials
@@TallicaMan1986 you are the person OP is talking about lol
My ex gf refused to believe that Limp Bizkit were selling almost as many albums as Britney Spears in the early 2000s. So I looked up the sales numbers and she was shocked.
Rock has come a long way, and by that, I mean it fell so far.
20 years ago you could talk to anyone, no matter what kind of music they liked they could name a dozen rock bands and name a current song they liked because it was impossible to avoid.
Today I can’t name 10 songs that came out this year and I go out of my way to find stuff.
Back in the day I could recognize a band in their intro. First 10 seconds of the song I already knew who it was. Nowadays you've already finished the song and you don't even know who the f*cking hell the band was.
These days 80% of the biggest rock songs are 9 years old from underground bands that have a tik tok moment or are made by non rock artists who are big and make a rock song
@@agonzalez7095 lol literally the biggest rock song i know this year is Lil Uzi Verts stuff.
it's not just with rock and metal music. All music today is not that innovative as it was 20 years ago. Music culture is not that important to kids anymore.
@@ghost_mall Of course there are a lot of bands who try new stuff but just mixing two genres doesn't mean it sounds innovative. The thing is that innovative music artists were much bigger twenty years ago but the kids aren't that much into music scenes nowadays so the big mass doesn't care about new musical genres or innovative bands. They care about Twitch stars or Influencer more than they care about musical innovations.
Finn, thank you for fighting for me.
Can I get an AMEN 🙏 🙌
THE SAVIOR WE DIDNT KNOW WE NEEDED LOO
I’m not a hero, just a guy doing his job 🫡
@@FinnMckentyPRMBA can we get a hell yeah brutha?!? 😁😁😁
@@FinnMckentyPRMBAthat's what a HERO would say 🫡
Unless our moms know who sleep token, bmth, polyphia ect are, they’re not mainstream lmao. If I asked my mom who fall out boy, blink, Metallica are she would know
Eh, weak comparison. All those bands you listed are old, just like your mom. Your mom probably has no idea who Doja Cat or 21 Savage is either.
Parents aren’t suppose to know what’s “mainstream” nowadays Ik for sure my parents don’t know who the mainstream pop and rap artist are
@@V0RTEX_GH0ST you’re right they only listen to underground hip hop and death drips
Ha! This has always been the benchmark for how I judged how popular something is. If my mom knows it
exactly.
12:41 Yes. Literally. Turnstile, Lorna Shore, Knocked Loose, Loathe, Ghost, and Code Orange are what comes to mind. Idk why this is a trend in metal now but after like 3 or 4 albums are released, the band JUST STARTS getting recognization outside of metal now. By the time the band starts reaching it’s peak, all the members now are already in their mid 30s
And the first time someone hears Lorna Shore they get exposed to a 12 minute long song about suicide because they are doing deep stuff now.
None of those are anywhere near as big as Linkin Park, Fall Out Boy, Limp Bizkit, Paramore, etc. which is the point.
Rock and metal fans: “why isn’t my band huge?!” while also “omg this band is huge why did they sell out?!”
For Real
"Djent killed metal. No songs, just riffs" really does sum up exactly how I've felt about metal for the last decade. Metal subgenres already have too big of a problem with what I call dynamics collapse, where the following acts are too busy emulating what the foundational acts were doing to allow the subgenre to grow and remain interesting and creative. They start themselves in a box and dogmatically refuse to even move the walls, let alone step outside of it. But djent started off a single riff from a single song from a single album from 2008, and then after the fact people realized bands other than Meshuggah were playing down tuned, high-gain, rhythmically complex metal, too. It didn't start in a box, it started on a line. You don't get the other two dimensions.
This is not a compelling argument tho because regular rock isn’t played either anymore and there’s no explanation why. It’s not just metal
@@Frederick0220 because you need a good rock song if you want your music to be played. Can you give me a few examples? Honestly, I don't even know any new, popular rock songs.
@@dominikaksiazek7177 You can take Greta Van Fleet as example, whom everyone boos because they sound like Led Zeppelin.Dirty Honey, Måneskin are really good too. Everyone wants to close their eyes and claiming the problem lies with the bands and not the industry.we have to admit it the industry is no longer interested in rock&metal. You can look at Babymetal; they have a djenty sound, and that doesn't prevent Japanese television from featuring them on TV. The problem is the Western music industry
@@dominikaksiazek7177 Bad Omens, Bring Me The Horizon, I Prevail, Trivium, and Ice Nine are all making great rock/metal songs. Bullet for my Valentine also used to be fantastic.
@@1kiraman Yup. One could argue the caliber of rock is higher than what it was 20 years ago yet there's essentially zero mainstream promotion of it.
The truth hurts but that's the reality we're in. The rock community willingly holds itself back.
We be sabotaging ourselves too much ha
That’s nonsense. BMTH and Bad Omens would be 10x bigger if this were 20 years ago. The fact remains that rock and metal aren’t really played anywhere and no one knows why
@@Frederick0220 I think a lot of people know why. Its because of willful ignorance. People don't want to hear a message, they want to twerk to a beat. Society is caving in on itself. Music with a message won't go anywhere. Yeah, going pop would make rock mainstream again. but is that really what we want?
@@chloeryanvtuberYeah, pop music wasn’t really a term I heard until like 2010 or so. A lot of which don’t really have any substance.
The closest thing I could compare to the past state of rock is stuff like the rap scene, ironically enough. Instead of people starting bands, they are trying to get into soundcloud rap.
@@KingKrouchpop goes way back before 2010
Gatekeeping is killing Rock.
Metalheads became the close minded people they used to mock and then wonder why fewer young people likes the genre year after year.
And then they blame it on younger people feeding the problem even more.
I agree, Rock has become traditionalist in the sense if you don't act, sound or look in a certain way you will be shunned by a group. I knew a certain individual in school who liked Rock/Metal and even played music by himself but he never dressed in a way that you would expect like comparing to the other Rock/Metalhead kids. This guy used to be shy and absent-minded even though he did have a few friends. The point I'm making is his friends weren't the Metalhead kids as they were close-minded and between themselves but his friends were more nerdy in a sense. Maybe it was the glasses but again that goes with the whole gatekeeping point.
Gate keepers drive me crazy. You are absolutely right, it is killing music. You can like what you like, if people want to stay only with the music of their youth it's their choice. Whatever. But it's when they start crapping on other musicians and listeners who don't have the same exposure to music and making them feel stupid for not being a scholar on some band or know how to differentiate between stupid sub-genre categories.
100% agree. "That's not metal!". And people arguing over what subgenre band X belongs to.
@@ghost_mallExcellent point. This behavior is not a new thing when it comes to Rock/Metal. But I understand what others are saying too. Due to the internet, that sort of thing is at an all time high.
@@ghost_mallI know what you're getting at, but now that the internet is so huge, these people are able to be much louder and more people might see it and get turned off, while back before that, these people weren't being heard as much and normal people were able to form their own opinion more on their own without that being forced down your throat
You couldn’t go anywhere 20 years ago without hearing Blink 182. Now, I couldn’t even tell you what sleep token sounds like. But I can hear an MGK song and tell you who sings it.
I hate to admit im the same but yeahhhhhh
Who is singing in the MGK song?
Lol, Pop Punk is keeping "guitar music" relevant
Honestly twitter people hating you is an accomplishment. Also thank you great Finn for fighting for us true Rockers/Headbangers!
I never understood the anti-mainstream people. I was always stoked when a band I loved got huge.
In my opinion rock today has gone more into indie/alternative than "rock". No wonder Arctic Monkeys, Tame Impala are "mainstream". Even "critically acclaimed" albums are either from indie rock or alternative rock these days.
Yep
Yeah indie fans in general doesn't want "their" band to be popular. It's like weird insecurity and selfish.
Thats what the labels want because that music is easier to sell to normies in a era where nobody buys music. That music is very easy to license to commercials to make money off of. Its literally jingle music.
You say this with a photo of clairo? Lol and all the peoole you’re subscribed to are the indie pitchfork urban outfitter bands lol
@@xdeftonesx9167 and your favourite band (Deftones) are literally internet darling (music nerds, critically acclaimed, pitchfork) band lol their fans are like Radiohead, Tool fans.
Tame Impala, Arctic Monkeys are a pitchfork type yet popular. Your comment on Death Grips, that group is literally the ultimate underground nedia,internet,fan daring to the point Finn doesn't get the them lol
Rock is 100% missing personalities. Everyone wants to blend into the pages of an American apparel catalog. It’s running on the fumes of bands past as of now. Imo there needs to be more genre crossover collabs, maybe that would put it back on the map for a lot of listeners that have faded away from the sound. Everyone’s chasing safe trends.
True. rap has outrageous personalities like young thug, carti, future. Rock.. cant think of much
Agreed. Rock is missing the personalities like finn said : nobody wants to be a stars only a few does that like ronnie & olie
Ed Sheeran literally looks like a barista and has over 80mil monthly spotify listeners. He’s also as pc and uncontroversial as they come.
@@micolashscream9003 exceptions dont define the rule
@@micolashscream9003 Sheeran's the nice, safe, asexual milquetoast that GenZ wants. Fact is, rock was always based on sex appeal and this generation wants nothing to do with that from white males. Any semblance is considered "toxic"
Korn, Limp Bizkit, and POD were constantly topping TRL for years and years in the late 90's. Metal/Nu Metal was the main stream in the late 90's. It was a great time to be alive! Also its worth mentioning that the way music is consumed now is vastly different than it used to be. To even be heard and or taken seriously bands are forced into digital, because everyone is streaming and the streaming services aren't really paying bands well. Its hard to pump money back into the craft when that specific source of revenue is now essentially gone. There are Merch and ticket sales, yes, but its not enough. There are other creative ways to make money too, sure, there just isn't a formula anymore. Its just not like it was, where revenue generation was controlled through actual physical medias. I think rock music is dying for that reason. A band is 3-5 people on average, splitting tiny profits 5 ways is just unappealing, so artists are pumping out songs way too fast, half-assing it to keep their heads above water.. Napster, iTunes, and Pandora flipped the industry upside down. Spotify and YouTuble, though late to the party, are dominating and throttling the revenue paid back to artists. It could be argued that it is way harder to make money as a musician than it ever has been. Society is also really different, we now consume content as fast as possible, spit it right out, and forget it tomorrow. Constantly looking for the next short-term trend to claim and gossip about. I think that's a consequence digital adverts and social media.
I completely agree with all of this. After reading a comment on someone's tiktok video I think I learned the problem when this person asked "what can I do for my band to get fans without being cringe?". That comment right there I think has become the mindset of too many people because the word cringe has become very popular in recent years. And it's stupid to worry about it because it will only hold people back. Is a lot of stuff cringe, yes but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. If you think about it everything is cringe based on the person's mindset. The dull band you showed in this video that looked like a bunch of waiters, to me that's cringe as fuck, those guys seriously need some style. Boring 8 minute djent songs that are just a riff salad are cringe in my eyes. To other people, let's say a black metal band in corpse paint playing in a park would be cringe. But you know what, people would rather watch that than a waiter playing an 8 minute riff salad. Whether it would be fans of the genre or someone who stumbled across it by accident and has no idea what black metal is, they would watch it because that would surely freak them out. The bands trying to not be cringe I think are the problem, if you try that you will just be dull and boring and who wants to see that?
I find it strange how metal heads seem to hate it when bands experiment or blend genres when that’s how the genre came into existence in the first place. It happened because people were experimenting with distortion and blending the sound of blues, acid rock, rock n’ roll, and surf rock. Experimenting and mixing is how genres were created.
Every 2000's teen movie/show/video game featured some variety of rock tunes.
WWE tunes, Tony Hawk, American Pie, Dawsons Creek, EA music from EA Sports/Games menu music. Let alone TRL/Top of the Pops. Rock was mainstream, not just on radio, it was EVERYWHERE in pop culture.
To support your point, back then Rock and Rockstars were so big that even in Costa Rica and the rest of Central America they were popular and easy to recognize, nowadays nobody knows a single new rock band
Oof hitting them with the data
It’s a conscious decision by record companies to not produce, promote and distribute rock music. We live in a corporate controlled musical landscape, and to these conglomerates rock is not a "sound investment." Rock bands are too unpredictable, often volatile and seen as "ungrateful" by the music labels. Too concerned with artistic integrity rather than bling and cars. Labels used to outsource the creative aspects of music to the artists, now they want to keep it in-house to maximize profits. Hire songwriters and performers and underpay them, while keeping a majority of the profits. Also, rock songs are harder to write, and it takes more skill to play musical instruments than it does to just program beats and samples. Rock fans are seen as too capricious and discerning, and tend to be older. Labels would rather spoon feed the impressionable youth what they want to sell them. For all these reasons, the industry wants to promote the notion that "rock is dead," under the pretense that they’re "giving the people what they want," when the reality is that they’re doing their best to kill rock while giving the people what *they*, the record companies, want
Of all theories and opinions this one is the most likely. Great point m8.
Twitter hates something? Shocker
Twitter is the human equivalent of chimpanzees throwing poop at each other.
Metallica and Limp both had songs written specifically for Mission Impossible 2 in 2000. Tom Cruise didn’t reach out to Bring Me The Horizon for Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning.
accurate. rock/metal fans don’t make any easier for bands to grow and possibly become mainstream tbh. they create an environment in which artists are too scared to write songs that actually say something and would actually connect with an audience outside of their fanbase for fear of part of their fanbase that wants disclaimers for everything. bmth’s own fans tried to start a little cancellation after hear the words “stupid medicine not doing anything” in their new song lost. talking about how meds have saved their lives and that the line is somehow “promoting dangerous habits” LOL. it’s as if singers can’t speak from their own experiences and have nuanced takes on topics or just want to write a catchy fucking line.
Yep
You have to be larger-than-life in one way or another to be a big mainstream star, there's no other way around it. Like thousands of other kids who picked up guitar, I dreamt of playing in a band as big as blink-182 or nirvana were, I can play well but I realised I wasn't much of a performer and am better suited to other things. I'm sure there are plenty of great sounding rock bands now who are aware that they'll have a niche audience for their whole career and are fine with that - but a lot of them don't appear to grow out of that 14 year-old idealised mindset and blame the world for not giving them the attention and praise they think they deserve.
I never understood the end game of attention seeking.
@@imjustsam1745is it a crime to want to make actual good money as a musician and get recognized for it. Ppl will criticize the music industry but then shame people who try to change it and make a name for themselves.
@@nananoodle5020 it's shameful to seek other people's approval, some say it's amoral.
If your chosen path requires you to pander for the approval of others, walk a better path, be a better person.
@@nananoodle5020 the music industry is a joke and your case of the look at mes ain't rewriting the punchline.
I've always been a Rock/Metal guy. But I started listening to other genres. Because I wanted some variety. And second because I realized there's good music in other genres too. Just being honest.
There's a lot of variety but it's the stuff the elitists think isn't "real" metal. Going from BMTH, to new Spiritbox, to Electric Callboy, to Sleep Token, there's tons of variety in hard rock / metal, but the metal guys online just want 0's and breakdowns.
I'm a headbanger, Rock n Roll junkie...and I love 70's disco, the 50s-60s-70s-80s pop, classic music, blues, black music, the 90s wasn't bad, indie, girl bands, etc...
Glenn fricker made the point that the decline of the genera tracks with the decline of actual singing. Screaming is like blast beats; you can only take so much of.
While Glen certainly has some valid points, I would take what he says with many grains of salt. That man is an absolute rock boomer and is stuck in the past. That and his constant "yelling=funny" shtick are the main reasons I stopped following him
@@pAWNproductionsDE This guy gets it
@@pAWNproductionsDE his musical taste and schtick aside. I think Glenn makes valid points that’s riffs aren’t songs, good songs matter more than technical precision, and everyone sounds the same because they all use the same amp sims and drum samples. I do agree on the boomer music take though. Sorry glenn, but there’s reams of rock and metal made after 1987 that kills.
Problem is the mainstream media gives ZERO promotion to rock bands. Not just metal but all forms of rock
The more indie, alt, pop rock bands do get some promotion. Lots have played SNL. Bands like Mumford and Sons, Bleachers, Arcade Fire and The 1975. The very safe and inoffesnive hipster bands.
Yep. They just flipped the switch from Rock to exclusively Hip hop. Hip hop just became the default for young people and the 2010s culture.
I haven't heard Rock coming from a sub 25 year olds car. It's just Hip hop. And I'm honestly tired of it.
@@Chaz4543 Yeah and how pathetic is it that the guy from Mumford and Sons got kicked out for endorsing a harmless book from Andy Ngo?! Proof that woke cancel culture is very real.
@@joshuaholman7760 Agreed. It's sad to see since rap used to be decent but now is mumble garbage, not to mention it takes no talent with the computer-generated beats. My brother is an Ivy League grad, lives in a wealthy neighborhood, yet still listens to rap exclusively. It's sad and bizarre to see.
Growing up, the whole reason I got into the punk/hardcore scene was that to me, rock was all about pushing boundries, and at the time, those scenes seemed to me the most enjoyable and in line with my personal worldview.
But I'm hard pressed to think of any current mainstream rock acts that haven't been "me too'ed" into behaving themselves.
And please don't take that wrong, it is a good thing that (hopefully) because of the whole "me too" thing, the aberrant behavior of deviant individuals has hopefully been curbed in some meaningful way, though I assume that those people will simply find a more closeted way to practice their disgusting behavior.
But in an age where a 9 year old tweat can end your career and ruin your life overnight, is it really surprising that artists aren't eagar to do anything that "pushes the envelope "?
My thought is, who even thinks it’s worth it to be famous? I think a lot of musicians I know are so disillusioned by the music industry that we don’t think the cost is worth it. That’s how I sorta feel.
I think there are a lot of reasons rock/heavy music is hurting itself. Bands don’t support each other for one. Tour packages not allowing locals or support which helps every scene having their bands grow. After the legacy bands are gone there’s nobody to replace them. There isn’t a metal band out there even close to the size of Metallica, Iron Maiden and those type bands. I also feel that all of us that were teenagers in the 90’s/00’s liked a huge variety of genres because we all watched MTV and there were excitement with Artist breaking new ground. These days everyone uses the same plug ins and write the same recycled songs.
Quite simply: there is a lack of bands. Kids don't form bands these days, they make their music from their bedroom.
a big problem in the scene was definitely tour packages. Especially in the middle to late 2010's. The amount of times I've seen bands like August Burns Red, Chelsea Grin, The World Alive, Memphis May Fire, among others tour with each other in a 5 year window was crazy. Additionally, in this time frame, a lot of vocalists who were in previously popular bands that fell apart got 2nd wind in their next projects, which would then clog up tour packages. Yeah it's a new band but it's a familiar face. I remember seeing Myka Relocate on tour for almost a year straight, thinking they were going to blow up, but then they disappeared. So I think all of those reasons are why metal, rock, post-hardcore, alternative suffer. They don't allow the fresh youngbloods to take over after something has been established
"I heard people on Twitter were dragging me. I dont give a f*ck because Twitters not a real place" - Dave Chapelle
Rock may currently be dying in the mainstream, but I think a revival is coming. The recent post-punk revival in the UK, titled the Windmill Scene, has proved that fresh new ideas are still being welcome and can still be in the mainstream. Bands like Black Midi, Squid, and especially Black Country, New Road are proving that rock doesn't have to stay in the past to be popular. Now, all three of these bands aren't grammy level mainstream, but just the fact that they are being featured in award shows (specifically the Hyundai Mercury Prize) and have played at big festivals (BC,NR at Glastonbury) proves to me that rock is coming back in a new, fresh way. I don't think any of these bands are going to be the ones to break into the truly mainstream space, but the bands and/or artists they inspire will take the new ideas they brought forth and give it a more mainstream appeal. This is because of the eternal cycle of innovative or experimental music. It is rarely popular in the time it was released, but other artists will find this music and push it into the mainstream. The best example of this is The Velvet Underground. Many subgenres of rock can be traced back to VU's first three albums, especially punk. They were not popular at the time of their existence, but they would influence bands such as The Stooges and Television, who would go on to influence bands like the Ramones and Wire, and they would end up influencing the BIG mainstream bands such as the Sex Pistols and Joy Division (not to say that the Ramones weren't popular, but when it comes to punk rock the Sex Pistols were the true mainstream break through).
The psych rock scene is getting big too with King Gizzard, All them Witches, etc.
The Velvet Underground also inspired The Strokes & they were huge in the 2000's (during garage rock revival). The Strokes then inspired Arctic Monkeys (which in my opinion they're even bigger than The Strokes)
Even tough i agree with Finn on alot of Points, Rock and Metal are in a much better place than they were 5 or 8 years ago, and that trend dosen't seen to stop.
My Bloody Valentine, Slowdive, shoegaze were overlooked in the 90's but now they're one of the most influential bands & genre.
@@andyjaniszewski2130 I never said that this specific scene is the next mainstream, I said that this scene has a good chance of inspiring those that will break into the mainstream. As I stated in my comment, these bands are not Grammy level mainstream. They are not on the same level of popularity as MGK. These bands are huge music nerd-core bands, but the fact that they have any popularity at all while doing things most other rock bands aren't is showing that new ideas are still welcome in the genre. Also, I would say that you are living in an ignorant bubble more so than me. The fact that you admit you haven't heard of these bands proves it. You are ignorant to the popular underground rock bands. And next time you make a reply, try to keep it respectful.
Something else I noticed about how mainstream rock was in the 2000s was that rock bands like Green Day, Blink-182, Linkin Park, and Nickelback would have some of their songs covered by Kidz Bop.
Nowadays, this wouldn’t be the case with rock.
You know you are mainstream artist if Kidz Bop of all things covers your music.
Rock is not missing personalities. They’re just not being promoted.
That's what I tell people
Yeah I think so too. All these pop and rap artists are overshadowing all the talented rock and metal artists.
Rock had a moment where a huge portion of it was more digestible to the masses. It has become so much more technical and heavy and you are surprised it is not as popular as Lincoln Park? That seems silly.
The thought that people will not make music cause they are not getting paid enough. Imagine if grindcore and math-rock required TRL to stay alive?
Late comment but they really aren’t promoting themselves tbh
I actually heard bad omens and BMTH being played on Q101 in Chicago. I was actually really shocked considering they play the same 25 songs over and over
Looking back it feels like Bat Country was the last time metal was truly mainstream. Along with Avenged winning best new artist at the mtv awards
Sydney and finn crossover?! Woah, we definitely live in the matrix.
I used to play with Ronnie Radke, I used to have Ben Anderson drummer of Nothing More in my project Night Prism. I am now a computer programmer, everything your saying is 100 percent correct Finn. My hats off to you for your dedication to keeping it a hundred as the kids say nowadays. Keep doing Gods work brother
I mainly only listen to black/death/grind/hardcore now, but you know what I was listening to first? Fuckin' Slipknot on Guitar Hero III, Senses Fail covering Institutionalized on Tony Hawk's American Wasteland, and hearing kids at school talking about System of A Down and Korn and Avenged Sevenfold and BMTH. I do not care to listen to MGK or even like BMTH or any of that type of stuff now, but even as someone who doesn't care for the more mainstream, normie-friendly-type shit of today I will freely admit that if it weren't for that exact type of stuff existing back when I was a kid I probably would not have worked my way down to Darkthrone and Gorguts and beyond, so why wouldn't I want those bands to be that for someone else?
TLDR: Today's posers are tomorrow's gatekeepers babey lol the kid listening to Emo Girl today will be ordering slam cassettes on Bandcamp in 10 years
Spot on Finn. Rock bands lost it when they started taking themselves too seriously. Soooooo boring
I have listened to Invent Animate for years and have loved it, but no fucking way they're any sort of stadium tour name, now or in 10 years. They've been going at it for a decade making music I enjoy but the problem with a musical circle jerk, its a circle. No room for others to join the fun.
Rock's difficulties are part and parcel of the slump that popular culture in general is in right now. Google the phrase "Old music is kicking new music's ass", and note all the articles that crop up regarding Gaga's song from '11 topping the charts, Taylor Swift recycling her hits from the 2000s and early 10s, and TikTok being consumed mostly be folks remixing music from decades past. We're having to rediscover what life was like, prior to they hyper-censorious age we live in now
The rock music genre needs superstars that people love to hate to be interesting and thrive.
Metal is an sad state of affairs. In one hand out of touch people who only cares about 30yr + old bands and in the other hand you have newer bands who only thinks metal is a technical exercise and are oblivious to what made past artists be successful
Well said
Change that to 20yr + old bands and you've described me to a tea. With 99% of new bands I've heard my reaction is "this is pretty ok, but the production is super sterile and there's nothing to separate them from the pack".
I think there’s a lot of truth in this video. To be fair though I do feel like rock and metal is in a much better place and much healthier now than it’s been in a very long time. I do think there’s been more of an emphasis on good songs lately. I don’t think you have to be completely original to connect with people, so I’m not so worried about a new sound so much as I am about stand out songs and personalities. I also feel like it’s become less acceptable to be a fickle gatekeeper lately. You’re right these things are a problem, no doubt but, glass half full I genuinely think things are better atm and trending in a positive direction, hopefully we can get some breakthrough acts soon. Even if I hate it I still want it to happen, because it’s good for everyone.
You gotta understand, image matters. What is Paramore known for? Hayley’s hair, Korn? Jonathan Davis in the Kilts and dreads. Limp Bizkit? Fred Durst. Slipknot? The masks. Like you have to stand out if you want to mainstream success. That’s just the truth. You can try and deny all you want but in order for Metal to thrive it’s needs more personality because right now it’s boring af.
Sometimes I think that there are way more bands around than in the 90s. Every band wants a slice of the cake, but the cake is much smaller now.
We should choose quality over quantity
Yes i think it all comes down to songwriting. Theres just.. no more anthems anymore we use to hear decades ago. Like you pointed out it just seems like everyone is trying to hard to be 'different' and the misses the mark as far as catchiness and memorableness goes.
Invent Animate’s matching beige outfits has got to be one of the most bland aesthetics for a band. Good at playing their instruments and all but you’re spot on.
People like Noah Sebastian, Courtney LaPlante, Will Ramos and Alex Terrible are stars within the metal scene but still haven’t had that moment to breakout of the heavy rock world. The scene definitely needs more stars.
I’m a diehard Invent Animate fan and I agree with you
Even the name sounds like it came from a random djent name generator.
the new stars are the influencer, UA-camrs, internet stars. Music nowadays doesn't play that big role it used to be.
Courtney LaPlante just unironically needs to do a concert in the nude or something crazy shes definitely super bland and Canadian but her talent is off the charts.
I agree a lot of the stuff that comes out now sounds way to generic to go mainstream (if something like a mainstream still exists). Djent has run its course and it was too niche and nerdy to really carry anyway. I guess some things might have contributed to all of this that Finn has not mentioned. As nice as it is have the ability produce your stuff potential in the best quality in your bed room can have some adverse consequence. The whole songwriting is now with one person and a lot times this is guitar player and guitar players don't think like normal music consumers (we all know, that it is impossible for them to not see the guitar as center piece of all of music). That let in past in insufferable guitar solos (where they were not necessary) and in the nearer past to riff salad at the expense of song writing. The internet eliminated distance as distinction factor, that in past brought out different local scenes. Something like Grunge suddenly popping into mainstream seemingly of nowhere could not happen anymore. The grunge scene was well established in Seattle before Nirvana breakthrough, s.t. other bands could instantly fullfill the demand, while the rest of the world was barely aware of this distinct style of rock. Today such a distinct scene could hardly come by as everything out there is on the internet, local influence have to compete with the entire rest of music from around the world. And this also leads to some homogenety as of course there is also some kind of rock/metal mainstream (the stuff that everbody is listening too or talking about). Ronnie and Oli are apart from the undeniable star factor are also really great vocalist, that offer quite a verity colours to their singing and screaming. Unfortunately this is very rare in rock and metal today (and might be the reason they stand out). As cool as harsh vocals are I cannot listen to only harsh vocals for a whole evening, it get boring pretty fast and very few vocalists in the male are good at clean vocals these days.
speak the truth. we NEED another Fred.
MORE NOOKIE!
Ong!!
What I think it comes down to is a lot of what people consider or want to be main stream rock just is not interesting to young people, specifically teenage girls. You have said this before and I think it’s totally accurate. That demographic is really what launches music or bands into the main stream. I doubt there are many 16-25 year old girls that know who Invent Animate are or would enjoy that type of djenty bland style of rock music. I actually was introduced to Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park by a teenage girl friend of mine in 2001. 00’s Nu-metal and pop punk was huge with teenage girls when I was in high school.
My man spitting facts!
Wants to add.
A lot of rock artists nowadays is simply not as relatable as the likes of Linkin Park or Paramore for instances. IMO, a huge factor a lot of girls were into them was because of how relatable their lyrics were for teenagers.
People can whip out names of bands like the three you mentioned (that I don't think I've even heard of), but yeah sure a lot of these bands are great, but none of them are "chart toppers". Me, I don't care what's popular, I like what I like, but I looked at the Billboard top 50 today out of curiosity...there is not one single rock song on the entire list. Not one. in 2000 you would have at least 15 rock songs mixed in with the hip hop, R&B and country. There is a difference between a great band that you love and a great band that everyone loves (and by everyone, I don't mean literally, but rather those bands that seem to go beyond niche popularity). Mainstream rock is definitely currently dead. Doesn't mean I'm going to go listen to any of the garbage top 40, though.
BMTH have been a band for 20 years so we can pretty much put them in the same category with Fall out, Slipknot and all those other big rock bands. It just took them a little longer to get the recognition, when non of the newer bands are able to get that same type of hype. So I understand what you mean.
Maybe I just got old, but nothing is really relevant anymore. Things come and go so fast, and most people only see what the algorithms want us to see that we're all in our own personal bubbles. Short of a handful of TV/Movie stars there has been little to no new things added to the pop culture zeitgeist since the early to mid 2000's. I don't think this is exclusive to rock.
This is so true the zeitgeist for most popular media goes by so fast these days. Every time a new hype album, movie or video game comes out it’s got like a week in the spotlight before people move on to the next thing.
I wouldn't say rock is dying. Its not as mainstream as rap or pop but that doesn't mean there isn't an audience for it. The last shows I was at had thousands of younger people in attendance and I'm only 34.
It doesn't matter who hates you the more, remember what Fred did with limp Bizkit back in the day. No negative publicity is bad publicity. Keep on standing for us Finn, we need more people like you, with your vision. You are 10000% right with your speech and it is going to hurt metalheads and rocker's feelings. If they don't wanna understand it, who cares. Rock is boring and that's a fact. It's good, don't get me wrong. There's plenty of good music out there and there's plenty of amazing current Rock and metal bands. This is a good moment for rock and metal, but one thing is one thing and another thing is another thing. Current bands are not mainstream at all. They all look flat and boring. Who would want to pay attention to some random dudes in their 30s all dressed in black?
Thank you Finn, please keep on spreading the word.
In the near future papa finn will have fred on the podcast, and the internet will collapse. Mark my words.
🙏
he needs fred on for this subject specifically
swing was also realy popular genre!
That was a fucking weird year.
People would rather be comforted by lies than deal with uncomfortable truths. Rock is boring, you have to go to the underground to find decent bands now it seems. Keep up the good fight Finn!
Seeing this video just reminded me of a question a friend of mine asked me in class we were sitting there, and we were talking about the different kinds of music i listened to and I listen to Rap, Rock, Country, Southern Rock, Nu Metal, Hip Hop pretty much everything and my friend asked if Rock and Metal is dead or if it's still around and I told him that Rock and Metal is still around but the problem was that it's being push aside in favors of boy bands and pop singers covered in glitter and singing about the same stuff that Rock and Metal did in a new form of music that has been done before at the time and now since I'm put of high school and starting to see that Rock and Metal are coming back slowly I'm starting to think that it's gonna be a fresh Nu start for the genre (see what I did there lol) I I like to see more kids picking up a guitar or a drum set and getting some hours put into those instruments and see what they can come up with
I think rock music is finding its way back into the mainstream, but not in the way rock fans think…
Right now, the most obvious trend of popular music is the sampling and covering of older music. A great deal of big hits we’ve gotten over the past year have been covers and remixes and sleeper hits that were already hits by already established artists. Probably the reason this is happening is because infinite music streaming is causing people not to care about new music anymore. Basically, old music is the new, new music. So when you say “tik tok hits n’ stuff don’t count as mainstream”, I disagree. Tik tok hits ARE the mainstream.
If rock gets popular again, it won’t be by newer bands and newer songs. It’ll be pop-punk covers and metal versions of pop songs and stuff like that. And I think that counts because that ideology is popular.
Covers of popular rock/metal songs could lead to newer bands creating new material.
The 90s and 2000s really did bring out successful and mainstream bands like SOAD, A7X, Breaking Benjamin, Linkin Park, Slipknot, Five Finger Death Punch, Shinedown, Skillet, and Nickelback. I don’t think you’re ever gonna see this level of success for rock for a while.
And there is way more bands like Paramore and Fall out Boy that I forgot to mention
Somebody's forgetting to add Rise Against, Green Day, Sum 41, Seether, 30STM, AFI, Papa Roach, Evanescence, Three Days Grace, MCR, Slipknot/Stone Sour, Limp Bizkit and Korn on the list
I think the closest rock/punk has to mainstream has these days are MGK and Travis Barker. They are larger than life characters dating or married to other celebrities. I completely agree with your summation of BMTH who got propelled to the cusp of mainstream because of Ed Sheeran.
Rock is dying simply because it’s so difficult to create original music after 50-60 years of the scene. I honestly think rap will see a similar issue over the next few years as newer artists begin to all sound the same. I’m buzzed that I’ve live through the development of so many different genres but that’s simply how life has become, it’s so easy for bands to jump on the next big thing and saturate the market overnight.
I listen to a lot of new music but it is very same old same.
I hope to be proven wrong but right now I doubt it’s going to happen
Finn you are the cold glass of water in the face and the b-slap that follows when talking about why rock is dying.
Thank you and please don't stop.
Two quick additional thoughts on why rock is dying and fading from "the mainstream", if It exists at all anymore.
First, I got all excited when I found out the band Blur has a new release available today. Blur/ Damon Albarn and company have been releasing music since the late 80's/ early 90's. Blur is a 30+ year old band fronted by a guy in his mid 50's to early 60's. A new Blur should be overshadowed by tons of fresh new bands. I don't know if it will be the rock is now.
Second, when I talk to my 18 year old nephew about music, we rarely ever talk about rock music. Mostly we talk about rap and the beats. We've gone to several shows, and they're all rap and hip hop. He loves the beats and the message. He gets visibly excited while he is experiencing the music. Rock just doesn't seem to have that level of pull with modern culture anymore. It needs to find another Elvis or something like that to cut through the clutter or rock is going to go the way of jazz or blues or other previously popular genres- good niche music that will eventually gatekeep itself into irrelevance.
Doing a fear factory run down and the members other projects would be a sick video
I agree with you, Finn. We are definitely lacking stars in the genres, and lot of bands aren't taking enough risks. I always see people hyping up bands that they think are amazing and can break through, but when i check them out, they obviously don't have what it takes, yet. People like to bring up Courtney, Will, and Sleep Token and I don't get the hype and that stuff isn't really access able or appealing to the mainstream. Like you said, Ronnie and Oli are a notch or two away from getting to the mainstream. A few notches down we have people like Sueco and Yungblud who might have what it takes. Personally i think Bad Omens and I Prevail have what it takes sonically to hit the mainstream, but need to up their star power.
We're lacking new music stars in general. It's because of the rise of internet stars and influencers.
@@PM-vv3uc Yup, It's the era of niche content too. Also like finns said in the past, if you want to succeed you also have to a Content Creator on top of a music artist. Sueco does good in that respect.
In the MTV days, you basically had a captive audience if you're into music. You might have girls watching MTV back in the late 80's/early 90's who didn't necessarily like heavy music or even rock in general. But the had to endure seeing a metal song or rock video once in a while as they watched to see their favorite videos. That's perfect opportunity to expose people to new stuff who might otherwise not be interested. She might "hate" metal, but then see a Ugly Kid Joe video and be like "ooh, he's cute!" and watch the video, then grow to actually like the song and find herself into the genre. Now, people just go to something else or aren't even exposed to it in the first place...and what they do see is some tatted up, sweaty, mean looking dude in cargo shorts and flannel with a ginormous beard in a nasty warehouse playing ugly, angry sounding music. Why would she stick around to give that a chance when Machinegun Kelly or Drake is right there looking like the hot boys she's seeing at the mall?
So, Ghost is not mentioned? When it comes to bands that could really take it back to the mainstream that's the one that comes to my mind right away. Also, they are definitely informed by vintage Rock music in terms of sound and songwriting approach. A sense of melody and structure, enigmatic image and a lore.
It’s as if people forget that Van Halen found success from having great songs that attracted a mainstream audience.
In my opinion rock is suffering because it is stuck in the past. When bands like the scorpions and acdc are some of the biggest bands, thats a problem. Those bands were in their prime in like the 80s. There is no support for the new bands and artists, so they are holding onto something that at this point is really old.
Even alt Gen Z look at both of them as "dad rock" now. They've passed their prime commercially, creativity, even their lagacy/influence.
Im a guitarist for a local band in Michigan. I can say from first hand experience that the rock INSTRUMENTALIST community is why rock is dead. If you go to any bar or local festival, I promise you will hear Seek N Destroy (or any starter metallica song), The trooper/run to the hills by iron maiden, or any of the beginner guitar songs like Do I wanna know or seven nation army. Seriously, keep your eyes open and youll see it everytime. If you don't "Shred" enough you wont appeal to the old metal fans (who are rapidly aging and do not attain new music theyd rather compare every new artist to what was), if you do 12 bar blues you wont appeal to blues fans, if you play pop progressions you wont apppeal to pop fans. So what is it? I 100% wager the next generation of rock guitarists will gravitate to the "Soundcloud Rapper" style. Every guitarist/bass player/drummer scoffs at the idea of doing anything close to a trap beat. Clubs are poppin but rock bars are full of white hair follicles. People want to dance, and tell me how you dance to Guns N Roses or even Bring the Horizon. You literally cant. Greta Van Fleet you can a little bit, but theres a reason theyre popular as hell. Trap beats are simple and incredibly easy to replicate on any instrument if you have a modicum of music knowledge. I get the idea that people want to make their magnum opus bohemian rhapsody every time they make music, but stripped down 3-4 note songs are killing it. Look at yeat, dude sounds like hes overdosing in half of his songs and hes pulling in more collective views than the entirety of metal atm. Shred fests arent popular either anymore, at least in the form they were. Name a hip hop song with a crazy solo in the past 5 years, I can really only think that post malone ozzy collab that you never hear anymore. No 16 year old is throwing on any modern rock band unless they are alt. Its just a fact and people got to wake up, eddie van halen is dead.
Speaking of dancing, check out the disco/funk groove in the verses of The Dirt I’m Buried In (Avatar). Given the very dark lyrics it’s definitely unexpected and great.
wow i just saw a lady in walmart wearing a Nothingmore t-shirt about 5 hours ago... had no idea who the band was, and then i watch this video. trippy!
i really hope they don't get to you and you're doing well, i think youre an awesome dude also an observation that i made (also with live shows) is that most generic bands don't have their own identity , they copy the aesthetics, sound and stage moves, ethics from the "top tier" bands and don't have anything original going for themselves , bands like linking park, limp bizkit,slayer,slipknot,bring me the horizon(even kiss and ACDC) and the list goes on all have their own thing going, their own identity, and i think this is crucial for wanting the "fans" to resonate with you
Any plans on doing another video including UnderØath? Their latest album is so fucking good! Every record they release is better than the last. They also did a really cool album release, streaming a live performance with all songs. Not sure how though, seems a little too good to be live.
Anyway, thanks for great content!
Love from Sweden!
Finn, Finn, Finn...you sound a lot like a very great friend of my who is a huge rock/metal/heavy fan such as myself. He is always throwing shade at the current metal scene saying a lot of the same things you say on your platform. I more often than not disagree with you on a lot of your critiques on the scene and you seem to have a lot of praise for the absolutely horrible hip hop/rap scene. My great friend does the exact thing always sending me lil uzi and what ever other crappy rapper out there and constantly dissing the metal scene...anyway appreciate your work because your doing a lot for metal by filling in the gaps where magazines like Metal Hammer and Revolver. Now as far as metal being mainstream again I don't think so because rock and metal is becoming more of a working man's music. No matter what technology that is out there you still have to grab your instrument learn it and work your ass off to make something people want to hear. I have a whole lot more to say but....until next time.
I think one of the biggest problems for why rock music is in the state it’s in is the modern rock station. The stations are not playing anything really creative or different. The new music and new bands that they hype up our basically post grunge/alt metal bands like Shinedown, Godsmack, Tim Montana, Sleep Theory, and Mammoth WVH(Wolfie is very talented don’t get me wrong, good God his band just sounds like every other modern rock band which is extremely disappointing because he can do better and he’s not).
They also really do not want to be playing anything nu metal either, save for the occasional Korn or Linkin Park song.
I feel like it's the entire musical culture that has shifted. With the explosion of UA-cam, tiktok, and the streaming services, we're seeing more bands "give it their best shot" resulting in fewer superstars across all of music, but more bands total all taking a smaller piece of the pie
Even if you go to a rock festival (at least in Europe) most members of the bands who play there are over 40 at least. In fact this are bands who where mainstream in the past but because no new mainstream rockbands appear even at rock festivals there are no new bands as frontliners.
Europe getting those leftovers hahahah
Well at least BMTH is starting to headline the big europe rock Festivals
@@sebastianpacheco9846 that's actually a very good point and nice they finally getting up there
"American Badass" by Metallica is the greatest Rock song ever. It's been statistically proven.
Stole your joke on twitter
I think a big reason rock isn’t mainstream as well is there’s too many sup genres that each have their own fan bases and less universal rock fans. From my experience it’s either gen Xers listening to rock radio and getting really excited seeing me (22) with an Iron Maiden shirt, the Midwest emo fans, the ultra heavy growl metal fans and the people that found songs on tik tok
All large gigs are headlined by the 90s and 2000s bands. The superstars from 2000s wouldn't be here much longer, I used to wonder what will the venue and scene looked like with these 2020s bands.
The reason why rock isn't as popular any more is part of the larger societal problem of the market not being driven by the desires of the people but rather manipulating the people to desire what the industry want to sell them. I'm not trying to be an edgy anti-capitalist but it's pretty obvious across all markets that it's not the best product that drives sales but rather the best advertising campaigns.
Music companies don't want to promote artists that might prove problematic and refuse to toe the company line.
this is the truth, and the reason why many metal/rock bands don't want to be mainstream. Mainstream music usually doesn't say anything either, because all people want to hear is songs about "I'm getting money" or "look how many bitches I have". This kind of music is good for business because it promotes consumerism. If all the bands I like went mainstream, I would have to stop listening to music. To quote body count,
"Guys have gone from fight the power,
to what does Kim Kardashian have on today
The fuck's the matter with you?
This pop shit's driving me fucking crazy"
I've never heard Finn mention King Gizzard.. I think underground popular is where rock music is headed.
Along with everything you said, I think a large part of it too it that bands nowadays take themselves so serious and try to give some deep meaning to their music for some broken person. That’s fine but niche. I love rock and metal but I’m not broken, so a lot of the lyrics and styles just don’t resonate anymore with me like. As with the majority of people. Lyrics like that are fine when the music is fun but no new metal/ rock is fun, just dull and depressing
Maybe you should try doing a deep dive into some of the weird corners of bandcamp microlabels for a while?
I've been subbed for a couple years now and I think your issue may just be that you're focused on the bigger artists in heavy music. It might not be truly mainstream, but metal is still a big industry and there are some caveats that come with following big corporate labels. On one hand you get to analyze what made some big bands great, and how they blew up organically and got picked up by tge big labels, but the other edge of that sword is that you're also seeing the product of big players in the industry, who are focused on marketability, manufacturing new acts that feel half assed or dumbed down for a broader audience.
If you enjoy bandcamp microlabels that's totally ok! But that is exactly the opposite of what I'm talking about here. My point is that rock and metal are becoming more niche, and in my view that isn't a good thing (for the reasons I explained here)
Now that rock and metal is no longer fully mainstream the metal fans revert to type like the before times when Metallica was accused to selling out for making a slow song with acoustic guitars on Ride the Lightning with Fade to Black.
I'm so thankful that you keep on with fighting the good fight and telling the truth - much needed words of wisdom and logic here! So don't ever let haters and closed-minded or b*tt-hurt people bring you down. Big up ❤
Name a single thing in the universe that twitter isn’t angry at… it’s why I left.
Justin Bonitz from Tallah is an incredible frontman. He's an exceptional vocalist and has a really fun personality. Its just a shame not too many people even know about them. Easily my new favourite band.
Laughing hysterically after just the 1st minute here, godspeed to you Finn and thank you for being a voice for many who agree with you
This man is 100% right about Djent/Metalcore, it's something to see all those bands that sound EXACTLY the same, same ultra compressed sound, sterile, mega edited, same covers and photos, no originality 😂
I think the pendulum swung from rockstars with big egos who don’t appreciate their fans to fans who don’t appreciate the artist.
I’d rather see a healthy balance between artist and fanbase. I think of Paramore, everyone loves Hayley, and she seems appreciative of her fans. I’d rather see that become the norm than see the reappearance of rock artists on the front of gossip magazines.
For me as an rap fan, modern hip hop did what rock needs to do, change from jaming to song creation even if creates conflit with established tradicions
For me Malxolm Brixhouse from unlocking the truth is an exempl of rock should be from now on.
I dont think its exclusively Djent. Bands need to just get in a room and record their music live with no click track. Enter the studio well rehearsed, lay their tracks down in as little time as possible, do as little mixing as possible (i.e get it recorded right), and release the fucking thing.
Another thing is it seems like rock fans genuinely live under a rock. You see on twitter or other social media all the time metal fans like "this Uzi guy tried to cover System of a Down" as if it isn't one of the biggest stars in the planet, and then they will swear to god BMTH is the most mainstream thing out there when the average normie has absolutely no clue who they are and *maybe* knows the gigachad song
Yep exactly. The type of people who have never heard of Future or Doja Cat
Idk fam, they literally worked with Ed Sheeran. Sounds like mainstream to me. Also, you say that as if metal fans have some obligation to know who tf Lil Uzi Vert is. They don’t. Why should metal fans care who Lil Uzi Vert is if they either don’t like his music or the genre of music he makes in the first place?
@@myotismusic5019 They shouldn't know him, it's perfectly fine. Just don't act like he is a no one just because you haven't heard of him, which is usually what happens. Also, not knowing who he is is just a symptom of being really disconnected from what is currently popular in the world (and again, absolutely zero problem with this, but if you are *this* out of the loop your perception of the current landscape of music may be slightly innacurate).
But if you look at maybe the biggest rock band in "modern history" Nirvana, didn't look like stars, didn't want to be stars. But they did something new, something that teenagers could relate to. Rock needs something new. MGK sounds like a bad early 2000s pop-punk rip off.
i feel like a good example of an underground (ish) band that’s doing something different is Picturesque. changing sounds often with catchy music
You're completely right. I'm truly not sure if I want rock to be that mainstream. I'm torn. Im a musical elitist. If rock was mainstream I would hate on the popular bands and continue to exist in my musical corner.... So it wouldn't be much different than it is now.